1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, March 16,
7 2010, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 RAY HOLT, Chair.
WARREN JONES, Vice Chair.
14 DANIEL DAVIS, Committee Member.
JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.
15 STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.
DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
16
17 ALSO PRESENT:
18 BILL BISHOP, City Council Member.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
19 SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
20 KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
JASON GABRIEL, Office of General Counsel.
21 DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
22 JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
23 - - -
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 March 16, 2010 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, everybody.
5 Thank you all for being here this evening.
6 I think we're going to be out pretty quickly,
7 though.
8 Well, since we're going to be out so
9 quickly, why don't we go ahead and do our
10 around-the-horn thing and everybody introduce
11 themselves and say something special about what
12 you bring to the City of
13 MR. CROFTS: Good evening.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Just introduce
15 yourself.
16 MR. CROFTS: My name is John Crofts. I'm
17 representing, as best I can, the Planning and
18 Development Department.
19 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
20 Development.
21 Everybody have a happy, safe St. Patrick's
22 Day.
23 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
24 Development.
25 MR. REINGOLD: Dylan Reingold with the
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 office of General Counsel.
2 And I know Jason can say his name, but
3 Jason Gabriel is a new attorney in our Land Use
4 Division at the Office of General Counsel. His
5 first day was yesterday, and we're very excited
6 to have him on board.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Welcome, sir.
8 MR. GABRIEL: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: We look forward to getting a
10 nameplate for you.
11 MR. DAVIS: Daniel Davis.
12 DR. GAFFNEY: Councilman Gaffney,
13 District 7.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Ray Holt, District 11.
15 MR. JONES: Warren Jones, District 9.
16 MR. JOOST: Stephen Joost, Group 3
17 at-large.
18 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, representing the
19 fine people of District 4.
20 MR. BISHOP: Bill Bishop, District 2,
21 interested bystander.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you for
23 being here this evening, sir. And we're so
24 thankful that we're going to take your item up
25 first. So we will start on page 3, item number
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 6, 2010-70.
2 We will open public hearing. I didn't have
3 any cards, but Mr. Herzberg is bringing one.
4 Now, Mr. Crofts, did you want to go through
5 some of these changes first and then have
6 Mr. Herzberg okay them? See if we're on the
7 same --
8 (Mr. Huxford enters the proceedings.)
9 MR. CROFTS: I will, if you want, give you
10 a little bit of background.
11 We have a revised written description that
12 I'll read into the record momentarily, after the
13 public hearing, which reflects the conditions,
14 but the March 15th revised written description
15 actually reflects some changes that in turn --
16 that were negotiated more recently than -- than
17 when this bill was originally submitted, but it
18 will eliminate the need for two conditions in
19 our recommendation for approval, which I'll be
20 glad to talk about at the time, after the public
21 hearing.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Herzberg.
23 MR. HERZBERG: Mr. Chairman, members of the
24 committee, my name is Mike Herzberg. My address
25 is
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 32216.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: We don't have any questions
3 for you. We'll go ahead and close the public
4 hearing and then we'll hear from Mr. Crofts and
5 Mr. Bishop.
6 Mr. Crofts, go ahead.
7 MR. CROFTS: The conditions are as
8 follows:
9 Number 1, "The development shall be subject
10 to the original legal description dated
11 January 11th, 2010."
12 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
13 to the revised written description dated
14 March 15th, 2010."
15 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
16 to the revised site plan dated March 8th, 2010."
17 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
18 to the review and approval of the Development
19 Services Division, pursuant to their memorandum
20 dated January 20th, 2010, or as otherwise
21 approved by the Planning and Development
22 Department."
23 That's it.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. And I probably
25 should have reminded everybody, but if anyone
Diane M.
Tropia,
6
1 has ex-parte, we try to do that during the
2 public hearing, but I don't see anybody on my
3 queue.
4 Mr. Bishop, did you want to say something
5 on this one?
6 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 I appreciate you taking it up early.
8 This particular rezoning has gone through a
9 number of different iterations between the
10 developer and the next -- the adjoining
11 neighborhoods. And, as near as I can tell, they
12 have reached -- Mr. Herzberg is -- Ms. Holcomb
13 is here, one of the affected neighbors next
14 door. And I know you did close the public
15 hearing, but she did come in early, and maybe it
16 might be a good idea, if she did want -- if she
17 wanted to say something, if you would entertain
18 that possibly.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. If she wants to
20 speak, we can reopen the public hearing.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, that's okay.
22 MR. BISHOP: Okay. Then I guess not.
23 Thank you.
24 Well, anyway, just to -- real briefly, not
25 to take too much time, there was a lot of
Diane M.
Tropia,
7
1 back-and-forth discussions between the developer
2 and the neighbors about this, and they've --
3 I -- as near as I can tell, they've reached an
4 accommodation on an appropriate solution here,
5 and there's a couple of things in the site plan
6 to point out that -- that they've agreed to.
7 One was --
8 There was a berm and a wall separating the
9 proposed multifamily use from the adjoining
10 residential neighborhood and a condition there
11 to construct that before any vertical
12 improvements, as well as increasing a portion of
13 the buffer from 40 to 50 feet where there's a
14 nice stand of trees that separates the
15 single-family neighborhood from the proposed
16 adjacent multifamily use. And that was agreed
17 to is my understanding. And, as near as I can
18 tell, they've -- it's all worked itself out
19 nicely.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for being here,
22 sir.
23 All right. All that being said, if
24 there's -- no one else needs to speak, I need
25 someone to move the amendment.
Diane M.
Tropia,
8
1 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
2 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
4 amendment.
5 All in favor of the amendment signify by
6 saying aye.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Amendment passes.
9 MR. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
10 MR. DAVIS: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold.
12 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, I just think
13 it might be important to make sure that the
14 applicant was okay with all the conditions. I
15 know John Crofts read it, but it was after the
16 public hearing was closed.
17 MR. HERZBERG: (Indicating.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry. Thank you, sir.
19 And Mr. Herzberg gives me a thumbs up, so
20 he is okay with all those conditions as they
21 were read. And we have a motion and second on
22 the bill as amended.
23 Please open the ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
9
1 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
5 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
8 vote
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
11 approved 2010-70.
12 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
14 All right. Committee members, let's go
15 back over to page 2, item number 1. We will
16 open the public hearing.
17 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
18 public hearing to 4/6.
19 Item 2 is deferred, as well as 3 and 4.
20 Item 5, let's see, we will open the public
21 hearing.
22 We do have a speaker.
23 Mr. Duggan.
24 MR. DUGGAN: I'm on item 7.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll hold onto that
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 one, then. And we're going to continue that
2 public hearing.
3 Let's see. Item 6 we just did.
4 Item 7. Now Mr. Duggan.
5 (Mr. Duggan approaches the podium.)
6 MR. DUGGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 Wyman Duggan,
8 Suite 1500.
9 This is an infill -- this rezoning is an
10 infill -- designed to allow infill redevelopment
11 of the Caruso Chrysler dealership on Southside
12 that's currently dark. The existing zoning is
13 for a PUD for a single use, which was the car
14 dealership. It's quite old, from 1982.
15 All we're doing is adding some other CCG-1
16 uses to relocate a trade school into the
17 structure. We're not proposing any structural
18 changes.
19 And other than clarifying that your agenda
20 is incorrect -- this is not a CCG-2 and PUD to
21 PUD; it's just PUD to PUD -- I'll stand by for
22 questions.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Reingold, didn't
24 you have something that you need to add on this
25 one or is that another item?
Diane M.
Tropia,
11
1 MR. REINGOLD: No, it's this item.
2 There are two aspects to the -- to this
3 amendment that's -- at least on your agenda is
4 one that we need to change the reference to
5 CCG-2. So it's just a PUD to PUD rezoning, and
6 then there's a traffic memorandum dated
7 February 25th, 2010, or as otherwise approved by
8 the Planning and Development Department
9 condition.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
11 Glad we got that on the record.
12 While we're in the public hearing, anybody
13 who has ex-parte -- and I have Mr. Joost on my
14 queue.
15 MR. JOOST: It's not ex-parte, but I
16 believe -- is that -- my brother has this
17 listed?
18 MR. DUGGAN: Yes, he does.
19 MR. JOOST: Okay. So I'm going to conflict
20 myself out.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
22 MR. JOOST: I'm declaring a conflict. My
23 brother has this property listed for sale, so --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Reingold, did you
25 need to add anything to that?
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. REINGOLD: No.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't think it really
3 calls for it, but I guess in an abundance of
4 care Mr. Joost is going to recuse himself on
5 this one.
6 All right. So we will close that public
7 hearing.
8 MR. JONES: Move the amendment.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and --
10 MR. REDMAN: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: -- second on the amendment.
12 All in favor of the amendment signify by
13 saying aye.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
16 MR. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and --
18 MR. DAVIS: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: -- a second on the bill as
20 amended.
21 Please open the ballot.
22 (Inaudible discussion.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Duggan.
24 MR. DUGGAN: Yes, I'm fine with the
25 conditions and the amendment.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Duggan is okay with the
3 amendment.
4 Thank you.
5 Please open the ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. JOOST: (Abstains.)
11 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
12 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay, one
15 abstention.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
17 approved 2010-71.
18 MR. DUGGAN: Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Item number 8,
20 2010-121. We'll open the public hearing.
21 Mr. Kravitz.
22 (Mr. Kravitz approaches the podium.)
23 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: How are you doing this
25 evening, sir?
Diane M.
Tropia,
14
1 MR. KRAVITZ: Dick Kravitz, 1650 Margaret
2 Street, for the applicant.
3 This is a CO to PUD zoning. It's an
4 existing medical facility on 103rd. This zoning
5 asks to add a pharmacy on the first floor as an
6 ancillary use when patients get examined. That
7 way they pick up their pharmacy [sic].
8 Also, there's no signage there now, so this
9 would also appr- -- have a sign out front to let
10 people know that there's a medical facility
11 there.
12 And it has the support of the Planning
13 Commission and the Planning Department, and
14 there are some conditions.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
16 Anybody have any questions for Mr. Kravitz
17 or need to declare an ex-parte?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, we will close the
20 public hearing.
21 Mr. Crofts, could you read the amendments
22 and make sure Mr. Kravitz is okay with it?
23 MR. CROFTS: I will be glad to.
24 Condition number 1, "The developer shall be
25 subject to the original legal description dated
Diane M.
Tropia,
15
1 January 18th, 2010."
2 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
3 to the revised written description dated
4 March 2nd, 2010."
5 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
6 to the original site plan dated January 18th,
7 2010."
8 Number 4, "The required transportation
9 improvements shall be made in accordance with
10 the Development Services memorandum dated
11 February 10th, 2010, or as otherwise approved by
12 the Planning and Development Department."
13 Fifth and finally, "An electronic message
14 board is permitted as part of the monument sign
15 and shall not exceed 25 percent of the allowable
16 sign area. The electronic message shall be
17 displayed for a minimum of ten minutes. The
18 electronic message board shall not flash or have
19 animation."
20 Thank you.
21 MR. KRAVITZ: We're fine.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
23 Let's see. I've already closed the public
24 hearing.
25 I need someone to move the amendment.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 DR. GAFFNEY: Move the amendment.
2 MR. REDMAN: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment is -- a motion
4 and second on the amendment.
5 All in favor --
6 DR. GAFFNEY: Move the bill as amended.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Wait a minute.
8 All in favor of the amendment signify by
9 saying aye.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
12 MR. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
13 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
15 bill as amended.
16 Please open the ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 vote.
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
4 approved 2010-121.
5 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 Can I have a -- one second to acknowledge
7 a -- there's a prodigy sitting amongst you, the
8 son of Councilman Jones. Some of you don't
9 know. I've seen the youngster grow up. He
10 played his first major league baseball game
11 Sunday against the
12 Braves.
13 So congratulations to
14 and hopefully we'll see him against the Suns and
15 then against my favorite team, the Red Sox or
16 the Phillies one day.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
18 MR. KRAVITZ: Congratulations.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
20 All right. 2010-122. We'll open the
21 public hearing.
22 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
23 MR. MANN: Charles Mann, 165
24 Road, representing the landowner.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Not seeing any
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 questions for Mr. Mann -- anybody need to
2 declare an ex-parte on this?
3 MR. DAVIS: I do.
4 Mr. Chairman, I'd like to declare ex-parte
5 communication.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. Thank you, sir.
7 Seeing no one further, I will close the
8 public hearing.
9 Mr. Crofts, could you take us through the
10 amendment and see if Mr. Mann is okay with
11 everything?
12 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
13 Number 1, "The development shall be subject
14 to the original legal description dated
15 December 11th, 2009."
16 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
17 to the original written description dated
18 December 11th, 2009."
19 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
20 to the revised site plan dated February 24th,
21 2010."
22 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
23 to the review and approval of the Development
24 Services Division, pursuant to their memorandum
25 dated February 10th, 2010, or as otherwise
Diane M.
Tropia,
19
1 approved by the Planning and Development
2 Department."
3 Number 5, "The monument sign shall be no
4 greater than 100 square feet in area and 20 feet
5 in height and shall be brought into compliance
6 with Part 13 of the zoning code."
7 Number 6, "Pavement shall be removed along
9 along
10 Condition number 7, "The dumpster shall be
11 enclosed in a masonry wall with gates."
12 Number 8, "There shall be a landscaped
13 screen around the outside storage area
14 consisting of a 6-foot-high vinyl fence and a
15 6-foot-high
16 15 feet on center around the exterior
17 perimeter."
18 Condition number 9, "There shall be no
19 stacking of storage items in the outside storage
20 area."
21 Number 10, "There shall be no wall signs
22 along
23 That's it.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 You okay with that, Mr. Mann?
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, those were not the
2 conditions as I remember them that came out of
3 the Planning Department unless something has
4 changed.
5 Item 6 gave us a second driveway on Bivens
6 Road that was 20 feet wide, and the other thing
7 was -- is that we did have -- the other thing
8 was we had signage on
10
11 us signage on
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Kelly, do you
13 want to address those questions?
14 MR. KELLY: Yes. Thank you.
15 That's my understanding as well.
16 With regards to condition number 6, at
17 Planning Commission, the Planning Commission
18 authorized a second driveway, at our
19 recommendation, to allow for the loading and the
20 unloading by the outside storage area. So a
21 second driveway was to be permitted on Bivens
22 Road. That driveway was 20 foot wide. So that
23 would be an amendment to condition 6.
24 I believe condition 11 is accurate. It
25 specifies that there shall be no wall signs
Diane M.
Tropia,
21
1 along
2 MR. MANN: And that is correct. That's our
3 understanding. We can have -- Bivens -- the
4 front of the building faces Bivens. We can have
5 signage on Bivens and
6 on -- not on
7 Parkway.
8 MR. KELLY: That's correct. That's
9 reflected accurately in the --
10 MR. MANN: Okay. I'm sorry. Then I
11 misunderstood you, Mr. Crofts --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
13 MR. MANN: -- but I'm -- we're in agreement
14 with that, then.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So we're squared
16 away as corrected by Mr. Kelly.
17 Mr. Reingold.
18 MR. REINGOLD: I know there's an issue with
19 the second driveway. Does that need to be
20 included in the conditions?
21 It's not really a restriction on the
22 development of the property. It's just
23 granted -- it's just sort of clarifying that he
24 does have the right to have the additional
25 access. Does the committee want that included,
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 to be reflected in the conditions?
2 MR. MANN: I would like it.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
4 MR. MANN: I personally would like it. I
5 know I don't have a vote, but --
6 MR. KELLY: Yes. I mean, there's a
7 conflict otherwise with the site plan, so we
8 want that conflict made.
9 Thank you.
10 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment that the
11 driveway be added.
12 MR. REDMAN: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So we're rolling all
14 these up into an amendment as corrected by
15 Mr. Kelly.
16 Mr. Reingold.
17 MR. REINGOLD: All right. So the sixth
18 condition would be -- at the end it would say,
19 "A second driveway, 20 feet in width, shall be
20 permitted along
21 understanding of the committee and staff and the
22 applicant?
23 MR. MANN: Yes, sir.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, it is.
25 Okay. So we've got all that on the record.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 I need somebody to move that amendment.
2 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
3 MR. JONES: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
5 amendment.
6 All in favor of the amendment signify by
7 saying aye.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
10 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
11 MR. DAVIS: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
13 bill as amended.
14 Please open the ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
21 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
24 vote.
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
Diane M.
Tropia,
24
1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
2 approved 2010-122.
3 MR. MANN: Committee, thank you very much.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir, for coming
5 down.
6 2010-123. We will open the public hearing.
7 (Ms. Durden approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Durden, how are you
9 doing this evening?
10 MS. DURDEN: I'm fine, Mr. Chairman.
11 Brenna Durden. My address is Lewis,
12 Longman &
13 Suite 150,
14 I'm here on behalf of the applicant.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Anybody have any
16 questions?
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I have an
19 ex-parte I need to -- I spent 20 minutes
20 speaking with Ms. Durden on this in my office,
21 gosh, probably two or three weeks ago, but I
22 cannot give you a date. So that's the best I
23 can do on ex my ex-parte.
24 But seeing no other speakers, we will close
25 that public hearing.
Diane M.
Tropia,
25
1 Mr. Crofts, is there anything we need to go
2 over on this one?
3 MR. CROFTS: There are seven conditions.
4 If it's your pleasure, I'd like to read them
5 into the record.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: They've been changed a
7 little bit, I understand.
8 MR. CROFTS: Right.
9 Number 1, "The development shall be subject
10 to the original legal description dated
11 January 14th, 2010."
12 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
13 to the original written description dated
14 February 2nd, 2010."
15 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
16 to the original site plan dated April 11th,
17 2000."
18 To clarify again, April 11th, 2000.
19 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
20 to the review and approval of the Development
21 Services Division memorandum dated
22 February 11th, 2010."
23 Number 5, "The site shall be developed per
24 Chapter 656, Part 12, of the zoning code."
25 Number 6, "A landscaping plan and tree
Diane M.
Tropia,
26
1 survey shall be submitted for the review and
2 approval by the Planning and Development
3 Department at the time of verification of
4 substantial compliance to the PUD."
5 Seventh and finally, "Concerning lights,
6 all sag lenses, drop lenses, and convex lenses
7 shall be prohibited. Illumination levels at all
8 property lines shall not exceed one-half
9 footcandle when the building or parking areas
10 are located adjacent to residential areas and
11 shall not exceed one footcandle when abutting
12 other nonresidential properties.
13 "All lighting lamp sources within parking
14 and pedestrian areas shall be metal halide or
15 compact fluorescent. The maximum light pole
16 height in all parking areas shall not exceed
17 20 feet. An exterior lighting design plan for
18 each project, including a photometrics plan,
19 pole and fixture schedule, shall be submitted at
20 the time of verification of substantial
21 compliance for review and approval by the
22 Planning and Development Department."
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
25 And, Mr. Crofts, just to clarify it on the
Diane M.
Tropia,
27
1 record, this PUD does not have any kind of time
2 restrains on it?
3 MR. CROFTS: That is correct.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
5 MR. CROFTS: That was primarily the purpose
6 of this PUD in the first place.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ms. Durden.
8 MS. DURDEN: If I might ask Mr. Crofts to
9 repeat the dates for the second and third
10 conditions.
11 MR. CROFTS: The original -- the second
12 condition, "The development shall be subject to
13 the original written description dated February
14 2nd, 2010."
15 Number 3 -- number 2?
16 MS. DURDEN: Let's just -- I want to --
17 because I'm not sure it's the February 2nd -- I
18 have February 2nd, 2000, is the original written
19 description.
20 Maybe Mr. Reingold could clarify it for us.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Reingold.
22 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to
23 Ms. Durden, you submitted a PUD with a
24 February 2nd, 2010 -- revised to correct a 2005
25 ordinance number. That would be the date of the
Diane M.
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1 written description and would contain a copy of
2 the prior written description that had been
3 attached previously. So the combination of the
4 two is dated February 2nd, 2010.
5 I hope that's acceptable to you and you
6 understand.
7 MS. DURDEN: It is. I just needed the
8 clarification.
9 Thank you.
10 And then number 3.
11 MR. CROFTS: "The development shall be
12 subject to the original site plan dated
13 April 11th, 2000."
14 And it's my understanding there were two
15 different dates on that particular site plan,
16 and we went with the -- appropriately, with the
17 April 11th, 2000.
18 MS. DURDEN: Okay. And that was the date
19 that it was actually approved initially, so is
20 that acceptable?
21 MR. CROFTS: Yes.
22 MS. DURDEN: Okay. Thank you.
23 I have no other questions, and I agree with
24 Mr. Reingold.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Durden.
Diane M.
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1 Mr. Reingold.
2 MR. REINGOLD: Just to the committee and to
3 staff, if we could just -- on condition number
4 5, strike the Chapter 656 reference in there.
5 And, otherwise, I think we're good to go on the
6 conditions.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
8 All right. Thank you all.
9 I need someone to move that amendment.
10 MR. JONES: Move the amendment.
11 MR. REDMAN: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
13 amendment.
14 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
17 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
18 MR. JONES: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
20 bill as amended.
21 Please open the ballot.
22 (Committee ballot opened.)
23 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
6 vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2010-123.
10 Thank you.
11 MS. DURDEN: Thank you very much.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 2010-124.
13 We will open the public hearing.
14 (Ms. Jenkins approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Jenkins.
16 MS. JENKINS: Good evening --
17 THE CHAIRMAN: How are you doing?
18 MS. JENKINS: -- Mr. Chairman and committee
19 members.
20 Suzanne Jenkins, Creative Community
21 Solutions,
22
23 And I'm here for any questions.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't see any questions,
25 but I believe Mr. Gaffney has an ex-parte to
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1 declare.
2 DR. GAFFNEY: Yes. I wish to declare
3 ex-parte. I spoke with the -- Ms. Jenkins a
4 couple of weeks ago.
5 MS. JENKINS: Yes, sir.
6 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Now my board is popping up.
8 Mr. Redman first and then Mr. Jones and
9
10 MR. REDMAN: Yes. I need to declare
11 ex-parte with Ms. Jenkins a couple of weeks
12 ago.
13 MS. JENKINS: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
15 MR. JONES: Ditto.
16 I'm going to declare ex-parte communication
17 with Ms. Jenkins about two weeks ago to discuss
18 the overall plan for the
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Davis.
20 MR. DAVIS: I'd like to declare ex-parte
21 communication.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
23 Mr. Joost, you seem left out.
24 MS. JENKINS: He said he would speak with
25 me at the committee meeting.
Diane M.
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1 MR. DAVIS: She doesn't need your vote.
2 MS. JENKINS: That's not true.
3 I respect -- I contacted everyone's office
4 that serves on LUZ and I offered to come and
5 speak to them.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we appreciate that.
7 MR. JONES: (Inaudible.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: He was probably in
9 the time.
10 We'll close the public hearing. There is
11 no amendment, so I need a motion on the bill.
12 MR. JONES: Move the bill.
13 MR. JOOST: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
15 bill.
16 Please open the ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
Diane M.
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1 vote.
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
4 approved 2010-124.
5 MS. JENKINS: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: 2010-147. We have
7 Mr. Goldsbury here tonight. I believe he wants
8 to give us an update on this one.
9 (Mr. Goldsbury approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir, for coming
11 down.
12 MR. GOLDSBURY: You're very welcome.
13 Tom Goldsbury,
14 This ordinance we have in front of you is
15 to create a local license for an awning
16 contractor. The State, in the 2007 building
17 code -- and we're not that far behind because it
18 really only got adopted and enacted last year --
19 has a specific requirement for awnings, and
20 that -- so we thought it would be helpful.
21 There is a few people in town, not really
22 that many, that do awnings, but they will not --
23 or they do not have a building contractor's
24 license, so it enables those individuals to get
25 a license to do just awnings, a local license.
Diane M.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: So this is a State
2 requirement now, that we have some sort of
3 licensing procedure?
4 MR. GOLDSBURY: Well, it isn't a State --
5 well, the State would say -- well, they really
6 would need to be a building contractor, a
7 certified general contractor, something along
8 that line, but we can create a local license
9 that they will not have to be near as deeply
10 qualified as those contractors to do just
11 awnings.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I understand.
13 Mr. Redman.
14 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 Mr. Goldsbury, this would pertain just to
16 awnings that are in front of the house or beside
17 the house or any awnings that a person would
18 have to have a license to install?
19 MR. GOLDSBURY: It's really more for the
20 commercial awnings, but it -- it wouldn't matter
21 if it's up front or the rear of the building.
22 It would be any awning.
23 MR. REDMAN: Okay. I know in my district
24 I'm getting a lot of flack because a lot of
25 people got cited this last week for having
Diane M.
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1 awnings in -- over their driveways and -- could
2 you tell me what the -- what the code is for
3 those at this present time?
4 MR. GOLDSBURY: Through the Chair to
5 Councilman Redman, that was not my code
6 enforcement staff that did that.
7 I'm not sure -- there are awning sign
8 requirements. It may -- could it have been for
9 an awning sign, or is it -- if it's something
10 with unpermitted work or -- I'm not familiar
11 with what the --
12 MR. REDMAN: I was sent pictures of
13 built-on awnings in front of the garages. I
14 know one of them was too close to the
15 easement -- the property -- the City property.
16 MR. GOLDSBURY: Sounds like a setback --
17 MR. REDMAN: A setback. But the others
18 were cited just for having them there.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I think that would fall
20 under environmental code compliance.
21 MR. GOLDSBURY: I believe that would fall
22 under -- it's either the setback -- I mean, it
23 has to be a setback if that's -- which would be
24 municipal code compliance.
25 MR. REDMAN: Okay. They wouldn't have to
Diane M.
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36
1 get an approval through your department to
2 install something like that?
3 MR. GOLDSBURY: They would on -- when we
4 get the licensing, to put on an awning, yes.
5 They'd get a permit to do that, to make sure
6 it's structurally sound.
7 MR. REDMAN: Okay. Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
9 MR. JONES: I've got two questions.
10 One, through the Chair to Mr. Redman, are
11 we talking about car covers or are we talking
12 about awnings that are attached to the house?
13 MR. REDMAN: Awnings that are attached to
14 the house, car covers or a carport that was
15 built on after the house --
16 MR. JONES: I thought this was referring to
17 awnings, which I thought was different than a
18 carport.
19 MR. GOLDSBURY: Yes, sir.
20 Through the Chair to Councilman Jones, a
21 carport-type, you know, half structure, a roof
22 over, whatever, that's -- we've always required
23 permits for those, a site plan, make sure it
24 meets setbacks, and we look at the structural
25 part on that. And that is done by -- there are
Diane M.
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37
1 some specialty licenses for that, but a building
2 contractor or a general contractor can do
3 those.
4 But this is really an awning, like you see
5 going down
6 type of thing. It's really an awning, not a
7 carport/car cover.
8 MR. JONES: And this will -- now, those who
9 are operating now, who are -- it's not that
10 many, as you pointed out --
11 MR. GOLDSBURY: Correct.
12 MR. JONES: -- who install the awnings,
13 they now would be able to get a license that --
14 without getting a general contractor's license
15 to continue their operation --
16 MR. GOLDSBURY: Correct.
17 MR. JONES: -- legally?
18 MR. GOLDSBURY: Correct.
19 MR. JONES: So there's no grandfather
20 provision --
21 MR. GOLDSBURY: They will be able to
22 grandfather in, the -- the awning people that
23 have been doing the business.
24 MR. JONES: So they have two options. They
25 either grandfather in so they're legal, or if
Diane M.
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38
1 they want to come into compliance, technically,
2 with the law, they can go ahead and get this
3 other license that you are recommending?
4 MR. GOLDSBURY: Correct.
5 MR. JONES: Okay. And the -- I asked you
6 about the carports because I've had a lot of
7 problems with those too. I don't think they
8 were permitted.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost.
11 MR. JOOST: Currently right now, who is
12 allowed to install awnings?
13 MR. GOLDSBURY: Any building contractor,
14 general -- a general -- certified general --
15 MR. JOOST: So you have to be a GC to
16 install an awning?
17 MR. GOLDSBURY: No. You don't have to, but
18 you can be. The higher classification you are,
19 you can always do less classification work. But
20 right now, like I said, you could be a
21 residential contractor who builds houses, you
22 could be a general contractor that could
23 build --
24 MR. JOOST: But right now you have to be at
25 the contractor level. So, in other words, this
Diane M.
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1 action makes it easier to install awnings?
2 MR. GOLDSBURY: It makes it easier for
3 those that have been in the business that know
4 that work to be able to get the license to do
5 that work.
6 MR. JOOST: Right. I wouldn't -- say I've
7 been working for a GC or a residential
8 contractor and my specialty has been the
9 awnings, without having to learn all that other
10 stuff, I could just get an awning license?
11 MR. GOLDSBURY: Correct.
12 MR. JOOST: What is that license going to
13 cost?
14 MR. GOLDSBURY: That's a question for the
15 Construction Trades Board. It -- I don't know
16 their cost. They get the licenses through
17 there -- probably -- well, I don't want to get
18 guess. I'd be wrong. It isn't that expensive.
19 MR. JOOST: I mean, I -- shouldn't we know
20 what that's going to be before we pass this?
21 MR. GOLDSBURY: Well, let's see if it may
22 be in this language because it -- I'm really
23 kind of helping cover for them.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: It's my understanding that
25 we're about to go through a change in our fees
Diane M.
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40
1 for those types of things.
2 MR. GOLDSBURY: It's no more than any of
3 the other specialty licenses. I'm sure it's --
4 they have a set fee for specialty licenses for
5 aluminum contractors, local contractors.
6 It's -- they're standard fees that the
7 Construction Trades Board has, but, I'm sorry,
8 I'm just not familiar with --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost, would it be okay
10 if he just got you that information before we
11 pass it at council?
12 MR. JOOST: That's fine. I'm fine.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
14 MR. GOLDSBURY: I'll have it for you
15 tomorrow.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no
17 further speakers, I need someone to move the
18 bill.
19 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
20 MR. REDMAN: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on -147.
22 Please open the ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
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1 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
7 vote.
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
10 approved 2010-147.
11 Thank you, Mr. Goldsbury --
12 MR. GOLDSBURY: Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: -- for coming down.
14 All right. 2010-148 is on for a
15 withdrawal.
16 MR. JOOST: Move withdrawal.
17 MR. JONES: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to
19 withdraw -148.
20 Mr. Davis.
21 MR. DAVIS: I'd like to understand the
22 reason for the withdrawal. I understand that
23 Councilman Corrigan is not here --
24 MR. JOOST: I can give it a shot.
25 MR. DAVIS: Sure. I mean, I don't care who
Diane M.
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42
1 tries to explain it.
2 MR. JOOST: When it came to Finance
3 yesterday, it got totally, 100 percent changed.
4 This -- the bill, as amended, represents nothing
5 to what this right here represents.
6 MR. DAVIS: What did it change to? What
7 was your --
8 MR. JOOST: Actually, the amendment is --
9 he wanted -- I guess he wanted to streamline any
10 concurrency or fair shares under 100,000. And
11 so the issue was -- is Kirk
12 auditor, signing off on these fair share
13 agreements, okay, without any council input.
14 And Kirk is saying, hey, look, I'm not -- I'm
15 not part of the administration. That's their
16 job. So I want to -- you know, I want to get
17 out of it. So -- I don't want my name on it.
18 I'm not the administration signing off on these
19 fair share things that are under 100,000.
20 And so what happened was -- is -- what
21 brought this to light is -- you know, Kirk goes
22 through all the fair share assessments and then
23 he -- and he either agrees or disagrees and
24 brings his concerns to us.
25 Well, one of the deals was right at the
Diane M.
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43
1 threshold of 100,000. And so he's saying it's
2 calculated wrong; it needs to be more; it needs
3 to go over this 100,000 threshold, which brings
4 it before the full committee to be considered.
5 And all of a sudden anything -- so then you go
6 through the whole eight-week cycle.
7 So then Corrigan -- Mr. Corrigan said, hey,
8 look, anything under 100,000 shouldn't have to
9 go through this process anyway; the
10 administration should sign off on it. And all
11 of a sudden, instead of having an eight-week
12 process for these small projects, all of a
13 sudden it's a two-week deal and we can get these
14 projects going and economic activity going much
15 faster.
16 So then what the committee did is the total
17 opposition thing and said any fair share
18 assessment whatsoever is to be viewed -- is
19 to -- to be considered before the full council.
20 MR. DAVIS: Can I make a suggestion?
21 MR. JOOST: Sure.
22 MR. DAVIS: Because --
23 MR. JOOST: I voted against it --
24 MR. DAVIS: I don't agree with this being
25 withdrawn. I'm just -- this is my position:
Diane M.
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44
1 We should be doing everything we possibly
2 could or can to help people get moving in a
3 process if they want to do some type of
4 development that's going to create job growth,
5 and I think that should be the goal of this
6 council right now. That's my personal belief.
7 Not having a district councilmember
8 involved -- and it might be a situation where,
9 if it's under 100,000, if the administration
10 signs off on it and the district councilmember
11 signs off on it, because the district
12 councilmember knows what's going on in his or
13 her district to be able to handle that.
14 I just -- we should be doing everything we
15 can right now to remove needless impairments --
16 MR. JOOST: For the record, I agreed.
17 And what I was trying to say is -- I'm
18 like, look -- I mean, there were only 25 fair
19 share agreements that came before the council
20 last year under 100,000. And so, you know, my
21 point was -- I'm like, now we're going to review
22 every one of these deals? What if they're all
23 wrong? I said, you're only talking about
24 $2.5 million, and now Mr. Sherman has to put his
25 whole audit team on every one of these
Diane M.
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45
1 agreements. I'm like, we've got bigger fish to
2 fry.
3 MR. DAVIS: I'm so with you on this.
4 And I guess if I could understand -- was
5 anybody in with -- was Corrigan --
6 MR. REINGOLD: (Indicating.)
7 MR. DAVIS: I'm talking to the committee
8 right now.
9 Was Corrigan -- can you give me his -- I
10 mean, was he wanting to withdraw this or what
11 was the position of Councilman Corrigan?
12 MR. JOOST: I can't speak for him. I'm
13 just guessing now that his bill, as amended, as
14 it came out of Finance is totally opposite of
15 what he wanted.
16 I would assume at this point he's just
17 like, "Withdraw my bill because it's not
18 anything close to what I originally intended it
19 to be, as it stands coming out of Finance."
20 THE CHAIRMAN: But it was passed with an
21 amendment?
22 MR. JOOST: It was passed as amended twice.
23 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I think I know where
25 you're going, Mr. Davis.
Diane M.
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46
1 MR. DAVIS: I guess -- I would just like an
2 understanding of what the amendment was that
3 kind of killed the bill, basically.
4 MR. JOOST: Well, the amendment was totally
5 opposite. Now everything --
6 MR. DAVIS: Everything needs to come
7 through --
8 MR. JOOST: Everything -- if it's for a
9 dollar, it's got to come before the council.
10 MR. DAVIS: I mean, my suggestion would
11 be -- I don't want to see this go away. In an
12 effort to keep some breath in this idea --
13 because I think it's a good plan -- maybe we
14 place an amendment on there that says, with the
15 district councilmember's approval -- like
16 sign-off -- and the mayor's office sign-off, it
17 doesn't need to come to council.
18 Does that make any sense?
19 MR. JOOST: Yeah, or even what I suggested
20 is -- I said, normally, when I used to do
21 audits -- you know, I'm like -- I said, you've
22 got to remember Mr. Sherman not only does the
23 City, but they're doing the JEA and all the
24 independent authorities. I'm like, you've got
25 over a $2 and a half billion entity out there
Diane M.
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47
1 that he's responsible for, and we're going to be
2 auditing, you know, $100,000 contracts.
3 I said, what I used to do -- you know, when
4 we did audits, we'd stick with the big ticket
5 items and then you would pick a small sample of
6 the smaller contracts to see if they're in
7 compliance to get a representative sample, if
8 you will. And if you don't find any problems,
9 then you're good to go, so --
10 MR. DAVIS: I agree with that principle. I
11 just don't know how we get this thing back in
12 the game.
13 MR. JOOST: I'm --
14 MR. DAVIS: I would --
15 MR. JOOST: I'll support your --
16 MR. DAVIS: I would move --
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Before we move anything, let
18 me hear from Mr. Reingold -- he wanted to add
19 something -- and then Mr. Redman.
20 Did you have some information from Finance
21 that you wanted to enlighten us on?
22 MR. REINGOLD: I'm just listening to the
23 committee discussion right now. And then if I
24 think there's -- I need some clarification, I'll
25 certainly ask for it.
Diane M.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Redman, you
2 wanted to add something?
3 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 I made the amendment to add the -- anything
5 under $100,000 because the auditor did not want
6 the responsibility of signing off on that.
7 But I understand and agree with Mr. Davis,
8 that if there could be an easier way -- having
9 the district councilperson sign off on it sounds
10 like a logical thing to me. I agree that we
11 need to do everything we can to support getting
12 things -- get some more things going on out
13 there.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
15 MR. DAVIS: Can I just make a suggestion,
16 Mr. Chairman?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Go ahead and move
18 what you want to move, Mr. Davis.
19 MR. DAVIS: Well, let me do that, but let
20 me explain to you what I did with Bent Creek
21 Golf Course in my district.
22 Instead of making every improvement that
23 the -- that the managing company has to make as
24 far as fixing the greens or, you know, putting
25 new sprinkler heads in or whatever, instead of
Diane M.
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49
1 that having to come back to the council every
2 time we appropriate this, we created a situation
3 where the mayor's office signs off on the
4 expenditure and the district councilmember signs
5 off, by law. That's what we did when we brought
6 this group in to manage the course. And it
7 works so well because I know what's going on in
8 the district more than -- you guys will look to
9 me anyway to see what I thought.
10 So instead of making somebody go through an
11 eight-week process to get a piece of property
12 moving forward and creating jobs, let's
13 streamline it. Let the district councilmember,
14 who knows what's going on in his or her
15 district, sign off on it, with the mayor's
16 office, who understands if concurrency is signed
17 off on it, and let's move forward. Let people
18 get to work.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So --
20 MR. DAVIS: So could I make an amendment to
21 the Finance Committee's bill?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I think what we would
23 be doing here -- and correct me if I'm wrong,
24 Mr. Reingold -- we would be creating another
25 amendment. And then when it came to council,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
50
1 there would be competing amendments, and it
2 would --
3 (Simultaneous speaking.)
4 MR. DAVIS: -- which one the president
5 wants to take up.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: -- (inaudible) the
7 president --
8 MR. DAVIS: Can I just make an amendment to
9 this bill?
10 MR. JOOST: Let's vote down the withdrawal
11 first.
12 MR. DAVIS: I don't think anybody moved it.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: We haven't moved the
14 withdrawal.
15 So go ahead with your amendment, and then I
16 have Mr. Gaffney in the queue.
17 MR. DAVIS: My amendment would be that the
18 fair share, if it's under $100,000, does not
19 have to receive council approval or go through
20 the council process if the concurrency office
21 signs off on the concurrency assessment and the
22 district councilmember signs off.
23 MR. REDMAN: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that understood,
25 Mr. Reingold?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
51
1 MR. REINGOLD: All right. One aspect --
2 currently, the 100,000 and below does not
3 require City Council approval, obviously. And
4 after the concurrency management system office
5 okays it, it goes to the General Counsel's
6 Office and the Council Auditor's Office for
7 approval. The amendment now is that it goes to
8 the council member for approval.
9 Do you no longer want the auditors involved
10 or would you still like them in the process?
11 MR. DAVIS: I don't think they want to be
12 in the process.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: That's the whole point.
14 MR. DAVIS: I think --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: He didn't want to be.
16 MR. JOOST: They don't mind being involved
17 in the process --
18 MR. DAVIS: They just don't want to sign
19 off.
20 MR. JOOST: He doesn't want to sign off on
21 the --
22 MR. DAVIS: I don't have a problem with
23 that.
24 (Simultaneous speaking.)
25 MR. JOOST: -- (inaudible) executive
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
52
1 authority.
2 MR. DAVIS: Yeah.
3 MR. JOOST: That was his beef.
4 MR. DAVIS: I don't have a problem with
5 that, and let the council auditor just check to
6 make sure it's okay and say -- and then send it
7 to the council member's office.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good. I think we all
9 understand the amendment.
10 MR. REINGOLD: So the amendment would be
11 that it -- instead of reviewed and approved by
12 the Council Auditor's Office, it would be
13 reviewed by the Council Auditor's Office and
14 that it would be signed by the council member of
15 the district.
16 The only issue -- and this is just kind of
17 off the top of my head as we're sitting here --
18 is a potential separation of powers argument in
19 that you've got a contract that's being signed
20 by a district councilmember and the
21 administration, and I'm not really sure what the
22 impact is from a standpoint of the two different
23 branches, meaning to require to sign off on that
24 bill -- or on the contract. That's the only
25 issue I wanted to raise.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Understood.
2 Well, we'll move forward with it. And then
3 if it turns out over the next week we find that
4 there's a problem with it, maybe we can revisit
5 it next week, but we'll go ahead and move it.
6 Mr. Gaffney.
7 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 I just want to expound on -- I was part of
9 the Finance Committee, and I agree that -- I
10 think the district councilperson should have --
11 we wanted to make sure there was some type of
12 transparency; however, I respect my colleague,
13 Mr. Davis, opinion as a district councilperson.
14 I think that there's -- no one knows better
15 what's going on in their districts than the
16 district councilperson. And I know if he was
17 here, I think it would have been a different
18 outcome, so I support it.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
20 Mr. Jones.
21 MR. JONES: Do we have -- I guess through
22 the Chair to Mr. Reingold, do you have dual
23 approval by the administration and the
24 council -- district councilmember or just the
25 district councilmember?
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1 MR. REINGOLD: With the amendment or as it
2 exists today?
3 MR. JONES: No, with the amendment.
4 MR. DAVIS: Let me tell you my intent.
5 MR. JONES: Okay.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
7 MR. DAVIS: My intent would be that if the
8 concurrency management office does not sign off
9 on it, then it's dead in the -- it doesn't even
10 get moving down the track anyway. So my thought
11 would be -- that's probably the first place,
12 that it would go there, and then it would go to
13 the -- I guess the auditor can check off to make
14 sure the numbers are right, and then it would go
15 to the council member.
16 I really don't understand the separation of
17 powers because there's precedent for this. I
18 know when we've always had bond money, we've
19 been able to move bond money, if it's under
20 $100,000, without council approval. I think
21 that -- as long as the district councilmember
22 signed off on it.
23 MR. REINGOLD: The only issue was that it's
24 a separate contract with an organization, and
25 then that -- the council member would sign that
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1 contract, the planning director would sign the
2 contract. I'm not sure if any of our contracts
3 we have, both branches of government -- or one
4 member of one branch and the --
5 MR. DAVIS: I'm not saying the City -- I
6 guess the district councilmember doesn't have to
7 sign off -- doesn't have to sign the contract.
8 They would just have to check that they
9 approved, to give the concurrent -- to give the
10 administration the ability to sign the contract.
11 MR. JONES: Kind of a checks and balances.
12 MR. DAVIS: Yeah.
13 MR. JONES: Yeah. Would that --
14 Mr. Reingold.
15 MR. REINGOLD: So there would be a little
16 extra step on top of what's today -- currently
17 what happens is the contracts get sent to the
18 district councilmember for their notification.
19 The extra step that would be attached on to that
20 now would be some form of, "Okay. I'm good with
21 that, let it continue forward," or, "Hey, I
22 didn't understand," or, "This doesn't make sense
23 to me" kind of issue?
24 MR. DAVIS: (Nods head.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And then that goes back to
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1 whom? To the concurrency management office or
2 whoever moves the bill forward?
3 MR. REINGOLD: In that case, there wouldn't
4 be a bill.
5 What happens now is the Office of General
6 Counsel reviews it, sends it to the Council
7 Auditor's Office, they review it. And then
8 also, at the same time, it gets sent to the
9 council member.
10 So what I'm seeing now is, send it to the
11 auditors for their review. Again, not for their
12 signature, but for their review. Send it to the
13 district councilmember for their review, and
14 sort of not signing the contract, but just
15 saying, "Hey, I understand it," sign back. The
16 Office of General Counsel then signs it, sends
17 it to the planning director for the planning
18 director to execute.
19 I hope that accurately reflects the system.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: That's fine.
21 Okay. So we have that motion and a second.
22 MR. JONES: I just wanted to make sure --
23 in that process, Mr. Reingold, it's a -- it's a
24 combination of approvals, then, I take it?
25 MR. REINGOLD: (Nods head.)
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1 MR. JONES: So the auditor is not approving
2 it, the district councilman is not approving
3 it. We're just saying that he's okay with it
4 and then it goes forward?
5 MR. REINGOLD: Would you like a certain
6 amount of time set for a council member review?
7 MR. JONES: I don't want to see a
8 councilman who is out of town or -- hold up the
9 process. I mean, that's -- that would be a
10 concern. I think that would be self-defeating
11 for what our purpose is in trying to get these
12 projects moving quickly.
13 Mr. Davis -- I mean, I'm not -- I'm sorry.
14 That's the only thing I'm --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and clarify.
16 MR. DAVIS: I mean, the alternative would
17 be they go through the whole City Council
18 process. So, I mean, if somebody waits a week,
19 they would be really happy that they're not
20 going through the eight-week process of getting
21 this whole deal, you know, and I --
22 I think this is an alternative, hopefully,
23 Councilman Corrigan would be okay with. And if
24 he has problems between now and Tuesday night
25 with it, then I'll be more than happy to address
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1 it.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. I'm sure we can put
3 our heads together and come up with a floor
4 amendment, if necessary.
5 All right. I have a motion and a second on
6 the amendment. Is everybody fully understanding
7 it?
8 Mr. Reingold, are you able to clarify this
9 on paper, all of our --
10 MR. REINGOLD: I will do my best, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
12 All right. Mr. Redman.
13 MR. REDMAN: Thank you.
14 I would suggest that if -- after a period
15 of time, if the at-large councilperson and/or an
16 at-large councilperson might be able to sign off
17 on this if it was, you know, too long a period
18 of time for the district councilperson to get to
19 it.
20 MR. JOOST: What if they're in the hospital
21 for a period -- an extended period of time?
22 MR. REDMAN: There could be cases where
23 that could happen.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly, are you going to
25 bring some information to the table?
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1 MR. KELLY: Well, I was just going to kind
2 of bring up a very similar situation, what we
3 currently do right now with our PUD verification
4 process --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
6 MR. KELLY: -- and how we route to the
7 district councilmember for their concurrence --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: What is the time limit on
9 that? I know there is --
10 MR. KELLY: I believe they have five days
11 to --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Five days?
13 MR. KELLY: -- to get back.
14 From when we route it to them, they have a
15 five-day window to get back and either give us
16 concurrence or just no response at that point,
17 and then we move forward.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. Would that be okay
19 with you, Mr. Davis, five days?
20 MR. DAVIS: No. It -- it is not okay
21 because I believe that the district
22 councilmember -- in that situation, it's deemed
23 approved if you don't respond. Okay?
24 In this situation, I believe that the
25 committee wanted to see some type of council
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1 responsibility to approve this. Okay?
2 If a council member -- I think the
3 council member should have approval authority,
4 not signing the contract so you have these legal
5 issues of having two bodies sign the contract.
6 But if the council member says, "No, I don't
7 agree with this," then the applicant can go
8 through the process and try to get ten votes.
9 You know? I just think that this is a way to
10 stem the process.
11 If there's something wrong with the
12 district councilmember that's out or an at-large
13 councilmember, I think that could create some
14 problems. I just think that we keep it simple.
15 And if there's not a way for a district
16 councilmember to approve it, then it goes
17 through the regular process. I mean, to me,
18 that would make -- that would be the
19 alternative, or the appeals process if you
20 wanted to kind of allude to something like that.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, a concern with that
22 would be if the council member was not
23 responsive and kind of sat on it for 15,
24 20 days, and then that person has basically lost
25 15, 20 days, and then they have to start the
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1 process -- I don't know how we would do that.
2 I know, myself, things sometimes sit in my
3 box for a few days, maybe not 15 or 20, but --
4 MR. DAVIS: Let me tell you what will
5 happen if it goes through the regular process
6 and a council member opposes it -- the district
7 council member opposes it. It's going to get
8 sat on anyway. I mean, in my district, if I
9 don't agree with something -- most of the time
10 if I ask for a deferral, it's going to happen,
11 so . . .
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Joost, you wanted
13 to say something?
14 MR. JOOST: (Inaudible.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
16 All right. We are -- motion and second on
17 the amendment.
18 All in favor of the amendment signify by
19 saying aye.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
22 MR. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
23 MR. REDMAN: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on -148 as
25 amended.
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1 Mr. Reingold, you're okay with
2 understanding the amendment?
3 MR. REINGOLD: I believe I've got it, sir.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Please open the
5 ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
12 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
15 vote.
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
18 approved, as amended, 2010-148.
19 And we shall see what happens over the next
20 week. It will be interesting. Thinking outside
21 the box.
22 MR. DAVIS: (Inaudible.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah.
24 All right. Items 14 and 15 are deferred.
25 Item 16 is second rerefer.
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1 Item 17, 2010-187. We do have an amendment
2 before --
3 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
4 MR. JONES: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
6 amendment.
7 Do we need to read that into the record,
8 Mr. Crofts? Is that necessary?
9 MR. REINGOLD: It is just a technical
10 change to include the district reference in the
11 bill.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Motion and second on
13 the amendment.
14 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
17 MR. JOOST: Move to rerefer.
18 MR. JONES: As amended.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to
20 rerefer.
21 Please open the ballot.
22 (Committee ballot opened.)
23 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot, record the
6 vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: By your action, you
9 have rereferred 2010-187.
10 And -202 is also second rereferred.
11 Am I missing anything, anyone?
12 Mr. Davis wanted to say something.
13 MR. DAVIS: Mr. Chairman, I apologize for
14 taking your small agenda and making it 15
15 minutes extra --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Not a --
17 MR. DAVIS: -- but maybe --
18 (Simultaneous speaking.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: -- (inaudible) last year.
20 MR. DAVIS: -- just thinking out loud -- I
21 don't want to take up the issue again, but maybe
22 the applicant can choose to have -- there can be
23 a choice of -- if he knows there's going to be a
24 holdup or if they're just sick, the district
25 councilmember, to go through the council
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 process. That's just something -- throwing out
2 there that -- you know, as we go through the
3 next week, that it can be -- you know, as an
4 alternative. There's -- you can have -- you can
5 choose one or the other.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. I just didn't want to
7 see somebody choose one path and then find out,
8 "Uh-oh, the district councilmember has not done
9 anything on this for 15 days, now I've got to
10 start all over with the other path."
11 But we can noodle on that over the next
12 week and come up with something, I'm sure.
13 MR. DAVIS: I appreciate it, Mr. Chairman.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We're done.
15 Good night, everybody.
16 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
17 6:02 p.m.)
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Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 STATE OF
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 21st day of March, 2010.
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14 Diane M. Tropia
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Diane M.
Tropia,