1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, November 6,
7 2007, commencing at 5:45 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair..
14 MIA JONES, Committee Member.
E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
15 ART SHAD, Committee Member.
16
ALSO PRESENT:
17
RAY HOLT, City Council Member.
18 JOHNNY GAFFNEY, City Council Member.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
19 SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Planning and Development Dept.
20 KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
TRACEY ARPEN, Office of General Counsel.
21 JASON TEAL, Office of General Counsel.
22 DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
23 MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
24 - - -
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 November 6, 2007 5:45 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, thank
5 you very much for your patience as we converted
6 from one setup to another setup.
7 We will now reconvene the Land Use and
8 Zoning Committee meeting.
9 We have two items that we're going to take
10 up first because of people -- council members
11 that have to leave for other functions or other
12 appointments. The first one we'll take up
13 tonight is on page 8 of your agenda, 2007-1007.
14 I will tell you, as we get ready to start,
15 a couple of things. One, as I mentioned
16 earlier, if you're here to speak on a particular
17 bill, please fill out a blue speaker's card and
18 we'll call you up when that bill is -- we arrive
19 on that bill on our agenda. You will have three
20 minutes to speak.
21 The beginning of your speaking comments
22 needs to be your name and address for the
23 record. We are taking down all your information
24 tonight. Diane is dictating everything we do,
25 so I ask you to please speak slowly and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
3
1 concisely when you speak so she can make sure
2 your information is put on the record.
3 I also will tell you that, if you look
4 on -- beginning on page 14 of your agenda, there
5 is a series of land use amendments. Originally,
6 those were going to be heard tonight, but all
7 the items on page 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20
8 will all be opened and continued, meaning that
9 those public hearings will be opened tonight,
10 you're welcome to speak, but there will be no
11 action on those items on the agenda tonight.
12 So I would tell you that you're welcome to
13 speak if you'd like, but your comments may be
14 more effective on the meeting on November 20th
15 when those bills will more likely -- action on
16 those bills will be taken at that time.
17 As a matter of fact, with the exception of
18 an item on page -- top of page 23, 2007-1088,
19 all the items from page 14 to the end of the
20 agenda, there will be no final action taken by
21 this committee tonight. So if you're here on
22 one of those items, you can stay if you'd like,
23 or you can leave, knowing that those items, with
24 the exception of the one item I mentioned, will
25 not have final action tonight by this committee.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 All right. I've kind of set the table. We
2 are now ready to go to item number 27 on
3 page 8.
4 We have a public hearing. I will open that
5 public hearing.
6 I will begin by disclosing some
7 discussion -- a discussion I had with Mr. Paul
8 Harden this afternoon in my office, and the
9 discussion was an overview of this particular
10 project.
11 The one housekeeping order I forgot to
12 mention is Councilmember Ray Holt is -- has
13 joined us tonight as a member of the Land Use
14 and Zoning Committee.
15 We welcome you and glad you're here.
16 Councilmember Shad.
17 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18 I'd like to declare that I had
19 conversations with Mr. Harden. I had an
20 appointment at 11:30 today at the City Council
21 office, which we discussed the legislation in
22 front of us.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Yarborough.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 We're on -1007, correct? Is that the bill
2 we're on?
3 MS. JONES: Yes.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: 2007-1007, I, too, had
5 ex-parte, Mr. Chairman. On October 23rd at
6 3:30, I had a telephone conversation with
7 Mr. Blackstone, who is a neighboring property.
8 We talked about there not being signs indicating
9 a rezoning, and we also talked about
10 notification to the nearby property owners.
11 And then a second ex-parte with Mr. Jordan
12 Senter (phonetic) on October 29, 2007, on the
13 telephone to talk about the proposed development
14 of the property.
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Councilmember Holt.
18 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
19 I also had ex-parte with Mr. Harden today
20 and also with several residents, Mr. Randy Wyse
21 and Mr. Jordan Senter.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Councilwoman Jones.
25 MS. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I also had ex-parte communication with
2 Mr. Harden, and I don't have my date up here,
3 but it was to talk about various aspects of this
4 bill.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I see no other
6 ex-parte declarations.
7 Councilmember Lee.
8 MS. LEE: I also had ex-parte
9 communications.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are finished with
11 that.
12 Representing the applicant is Mr. Harden.
13 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
14 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
15 Boulevard.
16 Mr. Chairman, before we start, before I
17 make my presentation for you, there are some
18 housekeeping matters that Councilman Holt and I
19 have kind of agreed on before we debate, some
20 substantive issues that -- there are some people
21 here interested in that may save some time.
22 There are two proposed amendments to the
23 legal description. One of them takes out a
24 portion of Crystal Sands Road, and the other
25 takes out 29 acres that adjoins the Tredinick
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Trust. And if we could amend the legal
2 description to take those out, I think the
3 only -- I told the adjoining neighbors I would
4 ask to do that to begin with, and I think
5 Councilman Holt has no objection to that.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me find -- on
7 housekeeping --
8 Ms. Eller, can we amend while we're in the
9 public hearing? What do we need to do?
10 MS. ELLER: Yes.
11 The committee can go ahead and entertain a
12 motion to amend the legal description. And
13 then, when you ultimately consider the other
14 amendments, which I'm assuming you may, based
15 upon the recommendation from PC and the Planning
16 Department, we can roll everything that
17 ultimately gets adopted by the committee into
18 one. That's permissible, if you want to
19 entertain that.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Councilmember
21 Holt.
22 MR. HOLT: Well, then I would make that
23 motion to amend the legal description.
24 It would be a really bad precedent to set
25 for us, to have that Crystal Sands Drive as a
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1 part of this. I am in full agreement with
2 Mr. Harden that we should amend that.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I have a motion.
4 Do I have a second?
5 MR. SHAD: Is Mr. Holt on LUZ? He was
6 appointed?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
8 I'd just say, do we need to move the bill
9 before you move the amendment? That's of
10 kind --
11 MR. SHAD: Mr. Holt is not --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: He's on the committee today.
13 MR. SHAD: Okay.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Holt is a
15 member of the committee today, so he can move
16 it.
17 Okay. We have a motion and a second on the
18 amendment.
19 Any discussion on the amendment?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor of
22 the amendment signal by saying aye.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
2 Okay. We have now been amended on the two
3 things that Mr. Harden and Mr. Holt discussed.
4 MR. HARDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 Again, Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
6 Boulevard.
7 You have on the visual there -- and I guess
8 you can see on your screens a location map. The
9 site in question is the blue colored property.
10 In red is the Tredinick Trust, which basically
11 surrounds the property.
12 But more importantly, you can see in that
13 vicinity all of the projects that surround the
14 area. As you can see, this area has been
15 substantially developed over the last five or
16 six years. There are still some undeveloped
17 properties out there, but most of the area has
18 begun to be developed except the Tredinick
19 Trust, which I suspect will be the subject of a
20 DRI in the very near future.
21 Would you put the next map up, please.
22 The Planning Department has prepared a map
23 indicating the PUDs that have been done in the
24 last five or six years, and you can see there
25 are five of them on there. Those PUDs all
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1 include lots of 50s, 60s, and then one 65 in the
2 area. And I say that because that's consistent
3 with the requests that we have made in this
4 particular case.
5 Initially, my client came to me with a
6 project that included some multifamily
7 apartments, townhomes in the area. The
8 townhomes and multifamily were not consistent
9 with what Councilman Holt had indicated was his
10 vision, and so I asked them to prepare just a
11 single-family project.
12 Now, for input from the Planning Department
13 and consistent with Councilman Holt's earlier
14 statements, we had proposed a site plan which
15 was filed with the Planning Department. That
16 initial site plan contains a mix of 50- and
17 60-foot lots, again, consistent with the site
18 plans that you have in the general vicinity.
19 We met with the Northside CPAC zoning
20 committee, and they recommended unanimously
21 approval of this PUD, asking that we lower the
22 number of 50-foot lots and raise the number of
23 60-foot lots, which we did do.
24 Subsequently, the entire CPAC considered
25 this matter and unanimously approved it, again,
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1 requesting a different split of the 50s and
2 60s. The plan included at that time more 50s
3 and 60s. Now it's the opposite. And we've
4 complied with the CPAC request.
5 The Planning Department, nonetheless,
6 issued a report recommending approval of our
7 earlier plan with the 50s and 60-foot lots. The
8 Planning Commission unanimously approved this
9 proposal with the initial plan inconsistent with
10 the Planning Department report.
11 This plan calls for two units per acre. It
12 is about 4- -- it's slightly over 400 acres and
13 it's capped at 800 units. The plan calls for
14 the construction of an approximately $30 million
15 road and a $4.5 million fair share assessment.
16 Those infrastructures require a density at
17 the --
18 Are you waving to me, Ms. Lee?
19 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
20 MR. HARDEN: -- at the approximately two
21 units per acre.
22 I was informed by Councilman Clark -- I
23 mean, excuse me -- Councilman Holt, who's
24 playing Councilman Webb today, recently that his
25 proposal would be 80-foot lots in this area.
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1 In all due respect, it's not a reasonable
2 development prospect, considering the market in
3 the area, considering what else has been
4 developed in the area.
5 I offered to Councilman Holt today to
6 change the plan to put all 60-foot lots in the
7 proposal. We, again, have had support on our
8 earlier proposal, 50-foot lots from the Planning
9 Department, the Planning Commission, unanimously
10 the CPAC and unanimously the CPAC zoning
11 committee.
12 I've tried to work, as we have, over the
13 last few days to try to come to a compromise.
14 Councilman Holt feels strongly, apparently,
15 about the 80-foot lots. And, again, in all due
16 respect, that is inconsistent with the
17 development in the area.
18 I know the time is up.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, your time is up.
20 MR. HARDEN: I've tried to talk fast, but
21 I'll be happy to answer any questions as they
22 come up, Mr. Chairman.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Any questions for Mr. Harden?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, our next
2 speaker is Randy -- is it Wyse?
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
6 Randy Wyse, 1450 Crystal Sands Drive,
7 Jacksonville, Florida 32218.
8 Really, we just -- I'm speaking for our --
9 basically our whole neighborhood on Crystal
10 Sands Drive. I just really want to go on the
11 record stating that we really didn't want to
12 see -- and some of the maps that you may have,
13 we didn't want to see Crystal Sands Drive used
14 as ingress and egress out of that area.
15 Mr. Harden has met with us and has said he
16 would take that off that, but there's also some
17 easement issues that Mr. Harden has, and I
18 really just want to go on the record that we
19 don't want to see that easement used for any
20 ingress and egress. So, again, just basically
21 go on the record stating that fact.
22 And also, again, we definitely agree with
23 Councilman Holt that we feel like -- if any of
24 you all are able to come to that area, it is a
25 very rural area and there's large lots. Our
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1 whole neighborhood is two-acres-plus on every
2 house or every house is on two acres plus.
3 So we feel like that the 60 foot is --
4 probably in our area would not be in line with
5 the residences that are there. So, again, just
6 kind of go on record that we agree with Mr. Holt
7 on the lot size.
8 Thank you very much.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 I have no further speakers on 2007-1007.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating).
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on up.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Give your name and address
15 for the record. We'll get the card from you.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Danny
17 Ferreira. I live at 14838 Edwards Creek Road in
18 Jacksonville, 32226.
19 Basically, I wasn't prepared to speak on
20 this particular development, knowing that the
21 CPAC had --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Could you pull that
23 microphone down towards you a little bit?
24 MR. FERREIRA: -- had prior information on
25 this development, and I know that they did take
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1 concern on the lot sizes.
2 I guess my focus on this issue now is
3 understanding that we have a strategy and a
4 master plan commission for the community out
5 there in North Jacksonville. This was -- in
6 fact, was to create a residential area which
7 would attract the executive homes, the residents
8 that we were losing to Nassau County.
9 In other words, we put this time and effort
10 in planning the North Jacksonville planned
11 community to be an upscale -- basically
12 last-chance effort to get it right, not to
13 duplicate other areas of mistakes around this
14 county.
15 We were to develop communities around
16 village retail centers. High schools were to be
17 reserved as residential single-family areas
18 where you didn't get the cluster of young people
19 living in apartments and affecting the social
20 behavior around the high schools.
21 We were going to create something better
22 than that that's in Nassau County by this
23 strategic plan that I know a lot of effort and a
24 lot of work, a lot of good-faith people with the
25 City have put time into planning that.
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1 Now, I believe this project takes away from
2 that idea, so I'm simply saying that we're
3 trying to create something of value so people
4 will stay in this city and not go to Nassau
5 County. And I think we're making a mistake by
6 reducing it, lowering our standards to accept
7 small lots sizes in that area especially.
8 Thank you all.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Next speaker is Bobby Taylor.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is on -1007?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, it is.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I'm a member of
15 CPAC and I was opposed to this, and I oppose it
16 now. I just wanted to come here and voice my
17 opposition. I don't think the lot sizes are
18 concurrent with the vision for that
19 neighborhood, and I'll speak in opposition to
20 it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Clarification. Mr. Taylor, you said you
23 were opposed to it. Does the CPAC oppose it or
24 the CPAC supported it?
25 MR. TAYLOR: I was in the minority.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
2 I think Ms. Lee had a question for one of
3 our speakers.
4 Was it Randy Wyse?
5 MR. TAYLOR: I'm sorry. My address is 9441
6 Heckscher Drive.
7 MS. LEE: I think he might have asked
8 the -- in Mr. Harden's comments, he mentioned
9 that the CPAC -- all the folks, that they
10 unanimously supported this. And, obviously,
11 they are neighbors out there. And I wanted to
12 know, did -- were they -- did they have an
13 opportunity to go to that CPAC meeting when they
14 had the meeting?
15 MR. TAYLOR: I'm not aware. I just know I
16 was opposed to it.
17 MS. LEE: That's all I was --
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no further
19 speakers, we'll close the public hearing.
20 MR. HARDEN: Do I get a chance to rebut?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Harden. I'm
22 sorry. I'm still warming up here tonight.
23 MR. HARDEN: I appreciate it. I'll go
24 quickly.
25 Let me just say, these are the first
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1 persons who have spoken about this project in
2 any of the public hearings.
3 As to Mr. Wyse, the density of his area,
4 although rural residential, is still the same as
5 the density of this area. We're two units per
6 acre on the gross project here.
7 With regard to the second speaker, we would
8 be very happy to build a village center inside
9 this project, but Councilman Holt doesn't want
10 commercial in there, and I understand it. We've
11 worked around it. If that's his preference,
12 we'll be happy to put a village center in here.
13 But this is a very, very nice project with a lot
14 of recreational open space, and I think it is
15 consistent with the vision.
16 With regard to Mr. Taylor's comments,
17 Ms. Lee, the zoning committee voted
18 unanimously. Mr. Taylor was -- he was on the
19 full CPAC, and that was the difference.
20 But if you will look at the five projects
21 that have been approved in the vicinity, we're
22 larger with -- than all of the lots in those
23 areas, and our density is much less. The
24 density of those projects is at three,
25 three-and-a-half units per acre. Our density is
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1 at two units per acre.
2 And, you know -- and, again, Councilman
3 Holt and I have had this debate over the last
4 couple of days. The issue, I think, is not
5 particularly the size of the lots. People are
6 going to build basically the same size house on
7 60-foot lots as they are on 80-foot lots. But
8 when you limit the density and cap the number of
9 units, that's the capping of the infrastructure
10 used and capping of the area.
11 I don't think it's an appropriate planning
12 technique to say everything that's come up as a
13 PUD around there, and then there are some
14 straight zonings, by the way, that are on that
15 map as well.
16 I did those zonings back in the late '80s,
17 which shows how long I've been doing this,
18 unfortunately. But that was a different time.
19 The Northside didn't have the infrastructure, it
20 didn't have the roadway system, it didn't
21 have -- actually, it had water and sewer to just
22 a few of those locations.
23 But in the last five years, almost every
24 project that's in that vicinity has a mixed --
25 included 50-foot lots or had 60-foot lots.
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1 Adjoining us are 65-foot lots. Councilman Holt
2 has got a map that shows that five of those lots
3 are 80 feet, which is true, but the vast
4 majority of the project are at the same size
5 lots that we're proposing.
6 The CPAC was very, very specific. They had
7 no objection to a mix of 50s and 60s. They
8 asked us to lower the number of 50s. We, in
9 fact, now agreed to do all 60s on the site. And
10 we really think that's consistent with the plan.
11 The Planning Department recommended
12 approval, the Planning Commission, the CPAC, and
13 the CPAC Zoning Committee.
14 And I respect Councilman Holt's position,
15 but the development that's in the area is
16 consistent with what we're proposing at the
17 site. And to support 50- or $60 million worth
18 of roadway activity that's going to be on the
19 site, you need a density at two units per acre.
20 So thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
22 The public hearing is closed on 2007-1007.
23 Councilmember Holt is in the queue. Do we
24 want to go to the Planning Department first or
25 go to Councilman Holt first?
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1 Or, Councilman Holt, which do you prefer?
2 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Crofts, do you want to
4 give the Planning Department's opinion?
5 MR. CROFTS: The Planning Department found
6 this particular rezoning consistent with several
7 provisions, as indicated in our report, with the
8 2010 comprehensive plan, notably future land use
9 element policy 1.1.10 concerning the use of
10 planned unit developments and the ability to
11 cluster and to be innovative in site planning
12 and design.
13 Also, policy 3.1.5, which encourages the
14 provision of a wide variety of housing types
15 that address some of the different social and
16 economic profiles in the city of Jacksonville.
17 And, finally, consistent with policy 3.10,
18 which requires new residential areas to include
19 in their design an efficient system of internal
20 circulation and connection with adjacent
21 neighborhoods.
22 And we've heard conversations from
23 Mr. Harden with regard to the accessway that
24 will be provided as part of this development, as
25 well as the requirement of one of our
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1 conditions, condition number 7, which concerns
2 secondary access to the north and to the east,
3 to Yellow Bluff Road.
4 We've also proposed a connector road which
5 will have a 10-foot-wide, multimodal walk on one
6 side and a 5-foot sidewalk on the other, which
7 is very similar to what we asked for and
8 required in the application for an approval of
9 the new high school at 9A and Baymeadows Road.
10 Also, the development has included a unique
11 pedestrian circulation system for development.
12 We've also asked for a 20-foot -- or
13 providing a 20-foot natural undisturbed buffer
14 along the northern, eastern, southern, and
15 western boundaries of the property.
16 And, as indicated, there will be eight
17 acres of recreational space that will include a
18 variety of active recreational facilities.
19 And we believe the development is
20 consistent with adjacent lot sizes and
21 development activity that's occurred in the area
22 with the provision of infrastructure, such as
23 water and sewer.
24 There are numerous developments and PUDs,
25 as we've outlined, that have 60s. There are a
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1 couple of developments that are a little bit --
2 around a mile away, called Tyson Landing and
3 Victoria Lakes that have a considerable number
4 of 50-foot lots.
5 So we believe that -- in fact, today, just
6 to refresh myself with the development out in
7 that area, I did go out and circulate around
8 that area and look at some of these
9 developments, and I was particularly impressed
10 with Victoria Lakes, which has -- which was
11 really probably the first development out there
12 that encroached into the 50-foot-wide lots.
13 And I think with the use of entryways,
14 curvilinear streets, a variety of architecture
15 and the utilization of good builders, I was very
16 impressed with the interjection of 50-foot lots
17 in a 60-foot development.
18 So as it relates to our overall
19 recommendation, we are in support, and for those
20 particular reasons.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
22 I had Councilmember Holt in the queue.
23 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24 Through the Chair to, I guess, Mr. Crofts
25 or Mr. Kelly, whoever can answer this. I'm
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1 going to make a few comments about the report.
2 Do all the committee members have the
3 Planning report -- Planning Department's report
4 on this in front of them? If not, I made
5 copies.
6 If the committee members could look at
7 page 10 of the department's report, there's a
8 map on here of the area around that.
9 It seemed pretty plain to me, you can look
10 at that map and it's surrounded by RR, RR, RR to
11 the north, south, east, west.
12 To the west, there's one PUD, and that is
13 the only thing that's not RR surrounding this.
14 And that PUD has a variety of lot sizes in it,
15 but -- if I could have somebody put this up on
16 the overhead, I'd like that map up there.
17 The outside edge of that PUD has a series
18 of 70s.
19 Can we zoom in on the map so we can see it
20 better?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Holt, let's
22 get in a better posture for debating this bill.
23 Let's go ahead, and if I can entertain a
24 motion to move the amendment.
25 MR. SHAD: Does that include --
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, a motion that includes
2 the previous item discussed, right.
3 MR. SHAD: Move the amendment.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
6 on the amendment.
7 Councilman Holt, go ahead.
8 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
9 I can't see it, but from my memory, almost
10 all of those lots along the eastern edge there
11 are 80s, 70s, and every single one of them are
12 in the area of a quarter acre or more.
13 Now, Mr. Crofts, if we could go to the
14 PUD. It looks like our minimum on this is
15 50 feet by 110 feet; is that right, according to
16 the conditions of the PUD?
17 MR. CROFTS: Through the Chair, I heard
18 that we're now at a minimum of 60 feet.
19 MR. HOLT: Okay.
20 MR. CROFTS: Sixty to one hundred.
21 MR. HOLT: If we're at a minimum of 60 feet
22 by 110 feet, that works out to be 6,600 feet for
23 the lot size. What does that work out to be in
24 acreage?
25 MR. CROFTS: As far -- well, the 43,560 is
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
26
1 what we have in terms of acreage. So we're
2 talking less than --
3 MR. HOLT: Where the lots would be?
4 MR. CROFTS: We're netting probably --
5 well, if we said the gross density was two or
6 two point something -- I can't remember exactly,
7 but the -- we're talking about approximately six
8 units per acre, six to seven, somewhere in
9 there, approximately.
10 MR. HOLT: Between six and --
11 MR. CROFTS: Six and a half. About six and
12 a half.
13 MR. HOLT: Between six to seven to the
14 acre?
15 MR. CROFTS: That's correct.
16 MR. HOLT: And I think what Mr. Harden was
17 talking about is, if you include all the land,
18 which I think well over 50 percent of it is
19 wetlands, you would end up with two to the acre,
20 but the lots will actually be between one-sixth
21 and one-seventh.
22 MR. CROFTS: Correct.
23 MR. HOLT: Six to seven per acre?
24 MR. CROFTS: Yes. It's approximately an
25 RLD -- well, let's see. RLD-F, I guess.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Somewhere in that area.
2 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to Councilman
3 Holt, let me clarify. That is, I guess, the --
4 does not include any of the ponds, does not
5 include the roadways, does not include any
6 wetlands, so --
7 MR. HOLT: So the lot size would be even
8 smaller?
9 MR. KELLY: No. The gross density is
10 actually about three units an acre on the
11 property, two to three units an acre in that
12 development probably.
13 Generally single-family subdivision, it's
14 60s and 65 lots, depending on the amount of
15 infrastructure and the right-of-way needs and
16 your retention ponds and your wetlands that are
17 typically on a site.
18 Usually a retention pond will be about
19 15 to 20 percent of your site. Your wetlands in
20 this area are going to take up a portion of your
21 site. So when you're actually looking at a
22 gross density within the overall development,
23 they're probably developing out at about
24 three -- three and maybe four. Hardly do we
25 ever see detached single-family develop more
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 than four units an acre.
2 MR. HOLT: I don't understand how -- the
3 6,600 --
4 MR. CROFTS: What we're talking about --
5 what Mr. Kelly is talking about, we're talking
6 about two different terms here, gross and net.
7 And what Mr. Kelly is talking about, what he
8 actually realizes in terms of units per acre,
9 after you take out all those nondevelopable or
10 infrastructure-related types of uses, that
11 that's what you're actually yielding. That's
12 what you're actually --
13 MR. HOLT: And I'm talking about actual lot
14 size.
15 MR. CROFTS: Yes.
16 MR. HOLT: Okay. Well, that's what I
17 wanted to talk about, is lot size because this
18 is what I'm comparing it to over here, lot size.
19 The lot size on this map here, which is the
20 most dense thing around this proposed
21 development, as you can see the top, 1.4,
22 .27, .29, .33, .25, .28, .24, .27, and that is
23 on the eastern edge of the proposed PUD.
24 So then I -- after I looked at that, I
25 turned back to page 5 on the report and looked
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 at the external compatibility. And there's a
2 map on there, if I can find page 5.
3 The external compatibility, they use the
4 example of a PUD, 2007-384. And they've got a
5 little map here of PUD 2007-384, which is a
6 development that doesn't exist.
7 Is that normal for us to use a development
8 that doesn't exist as an example of external
9 compatibility?
10 MR. CROFTS: I think -- the way I look at
11 this particular aspect, I think we're probably
12 looking at the relationships.
13 But to answer your question, no, it is not
14 typically something that we do to include
15 something that is pending.
16 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
17 In fact, that PUD was voted down five to
18 nothing by this LUZ Committee. If you'll look
19 through your agenda, you'll see it was voted
20 down five-nothing. Kind of reminds me of my
21 election day.
22 So the only answer I could come up with is,
23 if that's our example of external compatibility,
24 then it's just not compatible, if that's your
25 example of external compatibility.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 You go over to the next page, page 6, and
2 you see in every direction RR with the exception
3 of that one PUD that I already discussed.
4 And so I would ask that this LUZ Committee
5 vote against this. It is not compatible with
6 the area. This was the main issue in my
7 election. We've spoken -- people have spoken
8 tonight about changes in this area. We know the
9 people in that community don't want their
10 community to change. The character of that
11 neighborhood is what they want, and to change
12 the character of the neighborhood --
13 And I think in the report it said something
14 about that, that one of the goals, one of the
15 reasons that they justified it on intensity was
16 that it brought alternative housing. Well, to
17 me, that means you're changing the character of
18 the neighborhood. And I sit on City Council
19 today because of this issue, and this is exactly
20 the kind of thing that put me here.
21 And like Ms. Lee was saying today, she
22 represents a constituency. And that is the
23 reason I'm here today, and I would ask you to
24 press that red button.
25 Thank you.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Councilmember Yarborough.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 On page 6 of the staff report, it talks a
5 little bit about the schools that would be
6 served by this development. It mentions
7 Sheffield Elementary, Oceanway Middle, and also
8 First Coast High School. And there's a little
9 bit here in the report about the school board is
10 working to work on enrollment and capacity
11 issues.
12 I don't know if it would be to the Planning
13 Department or to Mr. Harden, if somebody could
14 comment on what the potential effect of the
15 development would be on the school systems
16 because that's -- I'm sure there's, you know,
17 maybe an estimated number of students that may
18 come out of that at the various levels.
19 Can anybody comment on that for me, please.
20 MR. HARDEN: Can I comment?
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: Sure. Whoever might be
22 able to answer.
23 MR. HARDEN: As you know, there's a joint
24 task force working on complying with some of the
25 State mandates. They have done a study in this
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
32
1 vicinity -- I'm sure Councilman Holt is aware of
2 it -- for locating, you know, available school
3 sites. We now have a requirement to pay into a
4 fund as part of the activity.
5 So to the extent there are school
6 activities that's paid for either by ad valorem
7 taxes or now by payments directly to the school
8 board -- the Sheffield Elementary is obviously
9 below capacity.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Right.
11 MR. HARDEN: They would estimate, you know,
12 a -- you know, they have an estimate per
13 household, and I think it's 120 students or
14 something that comes out. So that wouldn't be
15 over 100 percent. Even at the 113 capacity,
16 they use up to 120 or 125 percent.
17 So, generally speaking, development pays
18 for schools as they come -- as they come along.
19 In this particular part of the world, the
20 school board is already actively looking to site
21 additional schools at the location, and we
22 intend to have to participate in that.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thank you. I
24 appreciate that.
25 Just two other quick questions. I noticed
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 at the bottom of page 7, it said, "Upon visual
2 inspection of the property on October 4th, the
3 required notice of public hearing sign was not
4 posted." This is kind of a sticking point with
5 me, I guess. I mentioned this at the last LUZ
6 meeting. But whose responsibility is it to put
7 the signs up?
8 MR. HARDEN: This piece of property is not
9 yet served by that road. The place where we're
10 located is not on Starratt Road. So there was a
11 sign, but you can't see the access of it. This
12 hasn't been any secret. We've had a lot of
13 details like --
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Right. No, I wasn't
15 suggesting it might have been. I just was
16 wondering whose --
17 MR. HARDEN: It's our responsibility and we
18 post them, but there's not a --
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Well, I don't know who
20 goes out and inspects the property, but wouldn't
21 they have known where to look to take the
22 picture of it?
23 MR. HARDEN: Probably not. I've started
24 taking pictures as we put them up, but I'll
25 start bringing those.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: I was just wondering.
2 Okay.
3 MR. HARDEN: No, that's -- I mean, that's a
4 legitimate --
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: That way the public, you
6 know, knows to the best of their knowledge we've
7 been working on it.
8 MR. HARDEN: This zoning has been no
9 secret.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And then the last
11 thing, this was a memo from Mr. Lewis of our
12 Planning Department from Mr. Lee, transportation
13 planner. And it mentioned, "The proposed
14 development would adversely impact Starratt Road
15 from Duval Station to Yellow Bluff, which is
16 currently operating at a level of service F.
17 The area road network cannot accommodate traffic
18 generated by the proposal." And then, of
19 course, it mentions that the fair share
20 agreement would have to be done, but traffic
21 would be a major concern.
22 MR. HARDEN: We've entered into -- we've
23 entered into a fair share agreement. It's
24 $4.5 million. The money goes to that
25 intersection. Obviously, under the new fair
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 share system, it has to actually be a fix on the
2 fair -- so the fair -- before you can develop
3 it, the fair share has to be done.
4 Additionally, we're building the arterial
5 road. It's, you know, 30-, $40 million along
6 the side of the property.
7 That also reminds me. Councilman Holt and
8 I have a -- I think we are in agreement with
9 regard to condition 7, that we would rather have
10 the access down the new road as opposed to the
11 other road. So I think he and I both would
12 agree to take out condition 7 at the appropriate
13 time.
14 But our fair share meets that obligation to
15 bring the intersection of Starratt up to
16 capacity, consistent with the fair share
17 payment.
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thank you,
19 Mr. Harden. Appreciate it.
20 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Hearing what Mr. Harden just said,
23 Mr. Crofts, when you read the conditions, was
24 number 7 in the conditions?
25 MR. CROFTS: All right. I will now read
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 the conditions into the record.
2 Condition number 1, "The developer shall be
3 subject to the original legal description" --
4 MS. ELLER: Revised legal description.
5 MR. CROFTS: That's right. Correct.
6 -- "revised legal description dated
7 November 6, 2007." Excuse me.
8 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
9 to the revised written description dated
10 October 17, 2007."
11 "The developer shall be subject to the
12 revised site plan dated October 25, 2007."
13 Number 4, "The required transportation
14 improvements shall be made in accordance with
15 the Traffic Engineering memorandum dated
16 October 1st, 2007, and the transportation
17 section of the Planning and Development
18 Department memorandum dated October 8th, 2007,
19 or as otherwise approved by the traffic engineer
20 and the Planning and Development Department."
21 Number 5, "Additional access points, a
22 60-foot-wide right-of-way for future connections
23 shall be reserved as shown on the revised site
24 plan dated October 25, 2007."
25 "The exact locations for future
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 connections shall be reviewed and approved by
2 the Planning and Development Department at the
3 time of verification of substantial compliance."
4 "The total number of lots in parcel B shown
5 on the revised site plan dated October 25th
6 shall not exceed two lots per acre."
7 Condition number 7, "A secondary access
8 point shall be provided subject to the review
9 and approval of the Planning and Development
10 Department at the time of verification of
11 substantial compliance.
12 "An approved public subdivision collector
13 roadway with a connection to Yellow Bluff Road
14 shall be constructed and dedicated to the City
15 at such point the development has obtained plat
16 approval for 400 lots.
17 "No additional permits or final development
18 orders shall be issued until acceptance of
19 completed roadway construction."
20 Number 8, "The proposed collector road
21 shall have a 10-foot-wide, multimodal walk on
22 one side and a 5-foot-wide sidewalk on the other
23 side."
24 Number 9, "Wetlands shall be placed in a
25 conservation easement prior to final plat
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 approval."
2 That's it.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember Holt,
4 Mr. Harden referred to taking out condition
5 number 7. Are you supportive of that removal?
6 MR. HOLT: Yes, I am. We agree on that.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
8 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, the department
9 would strongly urge keeping condition 7 in the
10 staff recommendation. Essentially, we're
11 looking at 880 lots, a single-access subdivision
12 without that condition. So we would like to
13 keep that in there.
14 The potential adverse effects of, again,
15 not interconnecting roadways and connecting
16 these collector roadways to potentially either
17 Main Street or to Yellow Bluff at some point in
18 the future.
19 We would like the protection to limit the
20 amount of lots in the development until such
21 time that the infrastructure is in place to
22 allow for the connections to be made.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
24 Councilmember Holt.
25 MR. HOLT: I would just say that condition
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 number 7 was not something that I wanted to see
2 in there because the most likely spot that they
3 would be -- well, the only spot that they would
4 be able to make a connection to Yellow Bluff
5 Road would be Crystal Sands Road, and I do not
6 want to see traffic going through Crystal
7 Sands. That does not change the fact that I
8 overall am opposed to this PUD.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. In order to take out
11 number 7, I believe our amendment included all
12 the conditions. So with that, I'd have to have
13 a motion from this committee in order to take
14 number 7 out.
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to amend to take it
16 out.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: They removed the amendment.
18 I have a motion on the amendment to the
19 amendment --
20 MR. SHAD: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: -- and a second.
22 Any discussion on the amendment to the
23 amendment, which removes condition number 7?
24 Ms. Eller.
25 MS. ELLER: Thank you.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I wanted to go to the Planning Department.
2 Does condition number 8 modify the
3 requirement in condition number 7? So,
4 therefore, the motion would have to remove both
5 of those conditions.
6 I just want some clarification.
7 MR. KELLY: No.
8 Again, just to clarify, condition number 7,
9 without that condition, the Planning and
10 Development Department would not be in a point
11 of support at this point.
12 But condition 8 is unrelated. They're
13 still going to do the collector roadway into the
14 development, which would require the multimodal
15 path.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for clarifying
17 that.
18 Councilmember Shad.
19 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 On the amendment to the Planning
21 Department, Sean, will this -- looking at the
22 site plan, well, they're going to have potential
23 other accesses in the future? So it's one now,
24 but couldn't it be more? We're going to have
25 some dead-end roads on this property line if
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
41
1 there's other development there?
2 MR. KELLY: Exactly. And that's our goal.
3 This is a phased development which will be
4 developed over many years. And at such time in
5 the future when the roads and the infrastructure
6 are in place to support a connection to another
7 collector roadway or arterial roadway, at that
8 time, we would like the ability to do that.
9 MR. SHAD: But by removing condition 7, it
10 just prevents that one going to -- that the
11 residents are here to speak about. It doesn't
12 limit the other ones, does it?
13 MR. KELLY: No.
14 The department would be fine adding another
15 condition that would preclude any direct
16 connection to Crystal Sands Road. We're fine
17 with that, but --
18 MR. SHAD: I don't know if that's the
19 better way of what we're trying to do, if we're
20 trying to protect that neighborhood, but we
21 still want to have interconnectivity down the
22 road if the area is developed.
23 I put that out there for discussion with
24 the committee, that I think -- thought maybe
25 that's a better way to proceed.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I tend to agree with you. I
2 don't know -- it's not my district, so I'll
3 defer to Councilmember Holt for his opinion on
4 that.
5 MR. HOLT: I'm certainly open to other
6 ideas. I just am opposed to any of that traffic
7 going down Crystal Sands Road. We've had
8 several people tonight who vehemently oppose
9 that. And I agree, it's a bad idea. But,
10 again, that does not change the fact that
11 overall I'm opposed to the PUD.
12 So you guys deal with it, whatever you
13 want -- way you want on this amendment.
14 Thank you.
15 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair, if I could
16 offer a suggestion.
17 Maybe an amendment to condition 5. At the
18 end of the sentence on condition 5, just to put
19 in the statement that no additional -- no access
20 shall be provided to Crystal Sands Road.
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: That's fine.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: So are you rescinding your
23 amendment?
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: What Sean said. I'm
25 sorry.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. SHAD: Second.
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: I didn't realize I had to
3 do it since -- I apologize.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The previous amendment has
5 been withdrawn and we've got a new amendment
6 to --
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: What Mr. Kelly said,
8 right, to add that into number 5.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The additional language in
10 number 5.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Sorry.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I'd like to have the
13 applicant's input on that, if I could, please.
14 MR. HARDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 We don't mind having access out to Yellow
16 Bluff Road, but we -- the only one we own goes
17 to Crystal Sands. We can't control where that
18 access is going to be, other than that one
19 location. So we're doing a fair share that
20 makes the location that we have single loaded,
21 bring it up to speed.
22 We're happy when the Tredinick parcel comes
23 in. We have three stub-outs that's part of
24 another condition where we stub out and go out
25 there. So when the Tredinick property is
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
44
1 developed, we're providing stub-outs so that the
2 roads can go out to there.
3 But the only one that we can control is the
4 one on Crystal Sands. Councilman Holt doesn't
5 want to do that, the neighbors don't, so we
6 don't want to build it there. So --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
8 MR. HARDEN: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Any other
10 discussion on the amendment to the amendment?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor of
13 that amendment signal by saying aye.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
18 We are back on the amendment.
19 Any discussion -- further discussion on the
20 amendment?
21 Ms. Eller.
22 MS. ELLER: Thank you.
23 As I understand it, the amendment now
24 includes the original nine conditions as read
25 into the record with the modification just
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
45
1 approved to say that no access shall be provided
2 to Crystal Sands.
3 However, condition 7 still includes in it
4 the requirement that an approved public
5 subdivision collector roadway with connection to
6 Yellow Bluff Road shall be constructed and
7 dedicated to the City at such point the
8 development has obtained plat approval for
9 400 lots, and then no additional permits or
10 final development orders will be issued until
11 that roadway is constructed.
12 Now, the problem is, if you said that no
13 access will be through Crystal Sands and the
14 only access that they currently own and control
15 to Yellow Bluff is through Crystal Sands, then
16 this condition requiring an approved public road
17 to Yellow Bluff is impossible unless and until
18 the surrounding property that's under different
19 ownership is developed.
20 And they're more than willing to put the
21 stub-out in for that, but I don't know how you
22 can have condition number 5 with the no access
23 through Crystal Sands and condition number 7
24 requiring the access to Yellow Bluff Road in the
25 same amendment.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 And, Mr. Harden, is that how you understand
2 it?
3 MR. HARDEN: That was our point.
4 MS. ELLER: Okay. So I just wanted the
5 committee to entertain that conundrum.
6 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair, I mean, the
7 road that they're building right now, that's
8 currently a landlocked piece of property. So
9 how can we require, you know, a site plan for a
10 legal road to be constructed on property that
11 they currently don't own as well as for access
12 to the development? It's an identical
13 situation.
14 All this is doing is protecting the future
15 development of that area and phasing the
16 development and capping it at a certain point
17 until such time it's appropriate.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden.
19 MR. HARDEN: We've supplied an easement.
20 We have acquired from the Tredinick Trust an
21 easement for the location of that road. We
22 supplied that to the Planning Department. We
23 own that easement. We have the land to build
24 that one road. So --
25 MS. ELLER: So am I hearing that we're
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 add- -- we added the language to condition 5 and
2 now everybody is in agreement to remove
3 condition 7?
4 MR. HARDEN: That's fine.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. So I'll have to have
6 an amendment for that.
7 MR. SHAD: So moved.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
10 to remove condition 7 now that we've modified
11 condition 5.
12 All in favor of that change signal by
13 saying aye.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The motion carries. We're
18 back on the amendment.
19 MR. SHAD: Move the bill as amended.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: No, we're voting on the
22 amendment now.
23 Any other discussion on the amendment?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 the amendment signal by saying aye.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed,.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
6 MR. SHAD: Move the bill as amended.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
9 on the bill as amended -- on 2007-1007 as
10 amended.
11 Seeing no discussion -- Councilmember Lee.
12 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, on the bill, I want
13 to be clear on something.
14 Mr. Holt, in his remarks, he noticed me,
15 about how I feel about constituents. And I'm
16 certainly in concert on that, and I guess -- I
17 want to make sure -- you know, this is always
18 difficult when you're the district
19 councilperson, and I applaud you for working out
20 things. And, obviously, there were some
21 concessions made relative to the lot size.
22 Through the Chair, am I correct, Mr. Holt?
23 MR. HOLT: The original plan that
24 Mr. Harden is saying that the builders brought
25 to him was substantially higher in density than
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 what they are wanting now. But, again, it was
2 substantially higher than everything.
3 MS. LEE: Well, I was just concerned.
4 The second thing is, is there anybody here
5 from the CPAC committee, Mr. Chair?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: There was one gentleman here
7 from the CPAC.
8 MS. LEE: No. Okay. Well, Mr. Taylor
9 spoke. Is anybody here that was for this from
10 the CPAC committee?
11 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see anyone.
13 MS. LEE: Okay. Usually the CPAC committee
14 within any community is very involved in a lot
15 of things. Mr. Harden went on record saying
16 that they were in support of it. And I'm
17 wondering, if they were in support of it, were
18 they aware of these amendments. Mr. Wyse is
19 concerned, making sure that that road wasn't
20 like that.
21 Were they cognizant that that's been
22 changed so that you won't have that egress and
23 ingress coming in? Are they aware of that?
24 That was not raised at that particular time?
25 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
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1 MS. LEE: Well, thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
3 Councilmember Shad.
4 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 Briefly echoing a couple of the items that
6 Councilmember Lee said -- and as I sit here and
7 I'm weighing the substantial competent evidence
8 and looking at the Planning Department report
9 and the Planning Commission vote and testimony
10 and the CPAC and weighing that against the
11 important testimony of the district
12 councilperson here.
13 But when I weigh them and when I hear the
14 details of the project that Mr. Crofts spoke of,
15 and I took into consideration the net versus
16 gross, and it seems like they're almost
17 penalizing them for having all that open space
18 and using -- whether it's four units an acre or
19 two units per acre, it does sound like a nice
20 project.
21 And when I sit here in a quasi-judicial
22 role and weigh the competent -- substantial
23 competent evidence in front of us, for me, that
24 does -- even though it's against the wishes of
25 the district councilperson, it does tilt that in
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1 favor of the applicant.
2 So that's where I'm at. Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 Seeing no -- Mr. Holt.
5 MR. HOLT: Could I just reply to Mr. Shad?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
7 MR. HOLT: I would just emphasize that the
8 reason that they have all that open space is
9 because it's wetland. It's about -- it's over
10 50 percent wetland.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I see no other
13 discussion.
14 Mr. Crofts. I'm sorry. I'm going to quit
15 saying I see no discussion.
16 MR. CROFTS: There seems to be some doubt
17 in the staff's mind about the commitment to all
18 60-foot lots. I'd like to have that clarified
19 for the record.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
21 MR. HARDEN: You can -- all the lots will
22 be at least 60 feet.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Any questions on
24 that, Mr. Crofts?
25 MR. CROFTS: No.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ms. Eller.
2 MS. ELLER: It's my understanding from the
3 discussion in the -- during the debate, that
4 that was rolled into the amendment. That was my
5 understanding from my notes. I just want
6 everyone to be clear that that was a condition
7 that was included in the amendment from my
8 notes.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: So all the lots will be a
10 minimum of 60-foot lots?
11 MS. ELLER: That will be in the ordinance.
12 All right. Everybody is nodding. Thank
13 you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Everyone is nodding
15 in approval of that.
16 Open the ballot, record the vote.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
20 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
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1 approved 2007-1007.
2 The next item that we said we'd take up at
3 the beginning is an item Councilmember Gaffney
4 is here to see debated. It is on page 13 of
5 your agenda. It's 2007-1046.
6 There is a public hearing on this matter,
7 so I will open that public hearing. But before
8 we go to our speakers, I've asked Mr. Teal to
9 come tonight to kind of help the committee
10 understand the bill that we're debating because
11 I was quite confused, and his explanation, I
12 think, will help you understand it more.
13 Mr. Teal.
14 MR. TEAL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 In essence, Mr. Chairman, this is a
16 legislation that was introduced by Councilmember
17 Gaffney, really in large part because it's his
18 district that encompasses Springfield, and this
19 is an amendment to the Springfield zoning
20 overlay.
21 What happened back in 2000, when the
22 overlay was adopted, there was an amendment at
23 the LUZ Committee that changed the minimum
24 square footage amount in a rooming house from
25 the original, as filed, the number of 300 square
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1 feet per resident and dropped that number to
2 100 square feet per resident.
3 That change never made it to the LUZ
4 amendment that was voted on by council, and so
5 what's reflected in the zoning code is 300
6 square feet per resident. Unfortunately, that
7 number was never really adopted by council
8 because it didn't come out of LUZ that way.
9 So in the process of enforcing this
10 provision, we were -- we took a look at what the
11 square footage amount should have been, and
12 Councilmember Gaffney was kind enough to offer
13 this legislation in order to conform the number
14 that would be adopted by council with what was
15 actually presented to the LUZ and was voted on
16 by the LUZ.
17 By way of background, I've handed you out
18 all a copy of the transcript from the
19 December 5th, 2000, LUZ meeting and have
20 highlighted in there kind of the relative
21 portions of it. But basically what happened on
22 this was the councilmember -- I believe it
23 was -- the chair of LUZ asked Joel McEachin to
24 briefly go over the Springfield overlay.
25 And starting on page 19, line 16, he
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1 states, for example, with the rooming houses --
2 the rooming houses will have to comply within
3 one year to the special uses, and this also
4 affects adult living facilities. They must
5 provide at least 100 square feet of space per
6 resident. They must have 24-hour management,
7 on-site management, et cetera, et cetera. It
8 just goes through the list of it.
9 The next page Councilwoman Lockett-Felder
10 discusses kind of how they arrived at that. And
11 she states, I would like -- on, I believe,
12 page 23, starting on line 12, "I would like for
13 the community to know that these independent
14 living homes, we went over that very closely.
15 And I understand that maybe some folks may not
16 want it out of the neighborhood, but that was --
17 those facilities were there before Springfield
18 became good Springfield again and they want to
19 be good neighbors.
20 "So I think it's a great thing that we've
21 done in working toward trying to make sure that
22 those folks will have homes to live in. We
23 can't just throw them out into the streets. I
24 wouldn't think that that would be the right
25 thing to do. So we're trying to make everyone
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1 happy. I know everyone is not going to be
2 happy, but I'm going to try and do the very best
3 we can to make sure that we resolve this
4 problem."
5 In essence, the point of all of this is
6 that that was -- the 100 number was debated
7 during the meeting, and I wanted to make sure it
8 just wasn't an error, that it was a misstatement
9 by Mr. McEachin.
10 But as you can see going forward, he
11 confirms on page 57, starting on line 12, when
12 he's asked to repeat the amendment, he states --
13 and line 4, on page 36, under 656.374,
14 "Springfield performance standards and
15 development criteria, J; special uses, 2:
16 Interior space" -- again, this is referring to
17 the adult living facilities -- "shall be at
18 least 100 square feet per resident."
19 That motion was voted on at the bottom of
20 page 60, all in favor -- so that passed.
21 So we did confirm that, in essence, the
22 100 square foot requirement was debated by the
23 LUZ Committee. Their concerns seemed to be
24 that -- one, to recognize that there was a
25 balance in the community between the rooming
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1 houses and the members of the community that
2 weren't in favor of the rooming houses, and that
3 the compromise seemed to be the 100 square feet.
4 So that's the purpose for why this is
5 before you, is to rectify that error that
6 currently exists and has existed in our zoning
7 code for the last seven years in order to make
8 sure that what's in there actually conforms with
9 what's adopted by council.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Teal.
11 We have a number of speaker cards this
12 evening. Each speaker will be permitted three
13 minutes to give us their comments. If you would
14 like to indicate if you're in favor or opposed
15 to the bill and that is the only comment you'd
16 make -- like to make, if you'll indicate so I
17 will read it into the record.
18 I will list a couple of speakers in a row.
19 If I could ask you to please come forward as
20 your name is called so that when it's your turn
21 to speak, you'll be ready to go and we can
22 expedite this process.
23 I will begin with the people that are here
24 in support of it, followed by the people that
25 are opposed, followed by the people that did not
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1 indicate one way or the other on their cards.
2 The first couple of speakers I have -- the
3 first speaker is Gloria Devall, the second
4 speaker is Freddie Galliher, and the third
5 speaker will be Phil Neary.
6 Pretty much, if you're here for this bill,
7 go ahead and make your way down towards the
8 front because you'll be up in a few minutes.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Gloria Devall, 7027
11 Alpine Street, Jacksonville, Florida 32208.
12 I'm president of Barbara and Grace, a
13 nonprofit organization doing business as Home
14 Away From Home, a recovery house for men who
15 suffer from alcohol and drug abuse.
16 Our house is home to 14 to 18 men,
17 including three staff members. We provide three
18 meals a day, 24-hour supervision, drug testing,
19 AA meetings, curfew, laundry facilities. Our
20 men live with us for a period of a couple of
21 days to many years, depending on their
22 individual needs. Our guys pay $18 per day to
23 live at the house. This includes all expenses.
24 We receive no government money other than
25 the ability to shop at the food bank. We cost
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1 the city zero dollars and meet the needs of up
2 to 18 homeless men at any given time. We have
3 existed for 20 years in the same location, and
4 the neighborhood has seen growth and prosperity
5 in spite of our existence.
6 Our guys are the men who revitalize this
7 neighborhood. It is with their efforts that
8 these beautiful houses were painted, roofs were
9 repaired, kitchen cabinets were hung. While the
10 neighborhood recognizes their talents and hires
11 them to work on their homes, many are unwilling
12 to live next to them.
13 We are simply asking to stem the tide of
14 gentrification here. We would like our
15 grandfathered status to be honored and
16 protected. We are not asking to expand or to
17 build new. We are asking for relief from
18 harassment by those neighbors who would like to
19 see us elsewhere because, quite frankly, there
20 is no other place for us to go.
21 Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 Our next speaker will be Freddie Galliher,
24 followed by Phil Neary, followed by Diane
25 Gilbert.
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Fred
3 Galliher. My address is 1733 North Pearl
4 Street, Jacksonville, Florida 32206.
5 I am a resident of this facility. Yes, I
6 am a resident. Here I have a petition signed by
7 the people of the community that say we should
8 be there, we are good people. We perform a
9 service for the community and a very substantial
10 community.
11 I have talked to all these people
12 personally myself, and they are happy. The
13 stores, the businesses, the people in the
14 community. And we have nice living conditions,
15 very capable. Our bedrooms are adequate. The
16 facility is adequate. It's clean and well taken
17 care of, well-supervised. And I, for one, am an
18 alcoholic, and I'm happy to live there.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Phil Neary, followed by Diane Gilbert,
22 followed by Robert Evert.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, everybody.
25 My name is Phil Neary. I reside at 231
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1 East 7th Street in Springfield.
2 I've been a Springfield resident for over
3 20 years. I'm also a member of the board for
4 Home Away From Home. And I was the director of
5 the Historic Springfield Community Council when
6 the Springfield overlay was drafted.
7 In 2000, we put together three town
8 meetings, along with Joel McEachin and
9 Mr. Crofts and many other people, and discussed
10 this overlay and this issue at great length.
11 At that time, the community agreed to the
12 100 square foot requirement because we were very
13 concerned that the grandfathered uses that were
14 in our community, that were there legally, could
15 remain so and we could help individuals that
16 were trying to get help themselves from either
17 drug or alcohol dependence.
18 It was very critical that we keep our
19 entire community together because it is a very,
20 very unique community.
21 I'd just like to say that I am an
22 alcoholic. I have not had a drink since 1986,
23 March of 1986, and I was very fortunate to have
24 the service center in Springfield be there for
25 the five -- my first five days of sobriety.
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1 Since that time, I have moved on with my
2 life and become a married man and am very proud
3 of these institutions, these places where people
4 can go when they finally agree that they need
5 help and they ask for help.
6 And I hope we can remain there to continue
7 to give residents the help they need.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Diane Gilbert, followed by Robert Evert,
11 follow by Richard Severance.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
15 Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the
16 City Council.
17 Many of you I started meeting with, and we
18 want to thank you for working with us to address
19 the homeless issue and emergency service issue
20 in Jacksonville.
21 Home Away From Home is an organization that
22 has worked closely with several of our
23 providers, including the Sulzbacher Center,
24 Gateway Community Connections, and we're very
25 proud to have them dealing with some of these
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 very difficult issues.
2 We also recognize the importance of the
3 neighborhood, and it is important for the
4 neighbors to know that at no time is any kind of
5 misbehavior or any kind of depreciation in
6 anyone's property acceptable.
7 This is an organization that has been there
8 for 20 years and has worked clearly and
9 carefully with people, many of whom we would
10 know in other places of life that have faced
11 many difficult challenges, and this is a safe
12 haven for them while they try to get their lives
13 together.
14 We know that any person in that community
15 would not deliberately discriminate against
16 anyone because they're going through recovery
17 and disability issues because everyone in the
18 community is a different person and brings
19 different experiences to that community.
20 As the executive director of the Emergency
21 Services and Homeless Coalition of Jacksonville,
22 residing at 214 North Hogan Street, we are very
23 respectful of our neighborhoods and want to
24 assure you that we work with all of our
25 providers in helping members of the community
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 who are facing very difficult challenges.
2 Our society has many challenges in which we
3 need to do more research, we need to look at
4 more ways of addressing social ills.
5 The number of calls we're getting in our
6 office right now -- and we're not even a direct
7 service provider -- are increasing significantly
8 for people -- mothers and children living on the
9 street and people who have substance abuse
10 problems and don't have the facilities to help
11 them.
12 Home Away From Home is doing that, and we
13 want to support their efforts to give people a
14 second chance.
15 Thank you very much.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Robert Evert, followed by Richard
18 Severance, followed by David Cannady.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Councilman
20 Gaffney.
21 MR. GAFFNEY: (Inaudible.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The previous speaker's
23 name? It was Diane Gilbert.
24 MR. GAFFNEY: Yes.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Gilbert, could you come
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 back, please?
2 I'm sorry, Councilman Gaffney, I didn't see
3 you on the queue and didn't look up.
4 MR. GAFFNEY: It's okay. It's not working.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: I know.
6 (Ms. Gilbert approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Gilbert.
8 Sorry about that.
9 MR. GAFFNEY: Thank you. Sorry about
10 that. Just a quick question.
11 MS. GILBERT: Sure.
12 MR. GAFFNEY: How many rooms do you have in
13 the Home Away From Home?
14 MS. GILBERT: They are able to house 14 to
15 18 individuals.
16 MR. GAFFNEY: That's individuals. But
17 individual rooms, bedrooms?
18 MS. GILBERT: You mean bedrooms?
19 MR. GAFFNEY: Yes.
20 MS. GILBERT: Nine.
21 MR. GAFFNEY: There's nine bedrooms?
22 MS. GILBERT: Uh-huh.
23 MR. GAFFNEY: Okay. And the square footage
24 is, roughly?
25 MS. GILBERT: It's about 100 square feet, a
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1 little bit -- but for the whole area is 2,800.
2 Yes, for the whole area is 2,800.
3 MR. GAFFNEY: Thank you so much.
4 MS. GILBERT: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Thank you.
7 Mr. Evert.
8 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
10 My name is Robert Carr Evert. I was born
11 and raised in an upper-middle-class neighborhood
12 in Chicago, very similar to what I think
13 Springfield was at one time and is aspiring to
14 be once again, a proud, beautiful, and
15 crime-free area.
16 I now live in Springfield at 1733 Pearl,
17 Jacksonville, 32206, in a very comfortable and
18 very well kept up recovery house with a few
19 other gentlemen with all the amenities that we
20 could ask for. We're all productive,
21 contributing men of society and do our part as
22 well to restore this beautiful area to its
23 original lustre and elegance.
24 I can speak for myself and a couple who
25 could not make it here today by saying we have
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1 plenty of space in our individual living areas
2 with room and more to spare and move about
3 freely and have all the privacy required when we
4 do need it.
5 Thank you for your time.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
7 Richard Severance, followed by David
8 Cannady, followed by Edward Borowski.
9 Mr. Severance.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman,
11 Mr. Severance had to leave.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: He had to leave, I
13 believe.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: He's gone. Okay. Thank
15 you.
16 Okay. David Cannady, followed by Edward
17 Borowski.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
20 My name is Edward Borowski. I reside at
21 5221 Rio Grande Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida
22 32254.
23 Back in 1987, Barbara and Grace of Barbara
24 and Grace, Incorporated, had an idea to open up
25 a house where alcoholics could get their lives
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1 back together. I was fortunate to be a part of
2 that, and we opened the house.
3 The house was formerly a crack house. We
4 cleaned it up. We took trash bags full of
5 needles and drug paraphernalia from under the
6 house.
7 I just want to say that Home Away From Home
8 has got a -- it's a dear place in my heart. I
9 believe that I wouldn't be alive today if it
10 wasn't for Home Away From Home. I've become a
11 productive citizen. I'm now a homeowner. And
12 I'm very grateful for Home Away From Home, and I
13 hope it continues to stay the way it is.
14 Thank you for your time.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 I do not see Mr. Cannady. He was here in
17 support of the bill.
18 John Larry, I believe it is, or Larry,
19 followed by Gary Gnatek, followed by Joe
20 Markusic. I apologize for butchering that name.
21 Is Mr. Larry here?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. He was here in
24 support. I do not see him.
25 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, sir.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
3 My name is Gary Gnatek. I reside at 733
4 North Pearl Street, the Home Away From Home.
5 I have very extensive credentials. I have
6 a degree from the University of Michigan in math
7 and physics. Worked for the Department of
8 Defense. I am now a business owner working on a
9 house for SPAR who is opposed to having us
10 around.
11 I've been the general manager of all of
12 Barbara and Grace, Incorporated, properties at
13 one time or another and general manager at one
14 particular time.
15 I've been through difficulties with the
16 City Council in the past concerning bathroom
17 ordinance laws and things like that, and now
18 you're talking about square footage laws, which
19 really don't affect us because we are actually
20 very comfortable.
21 And we do not have a problem within the
22 community. We do not cause problems. We are
23 very responsible citizens and we take care of
24 our own property, per se. And we police, you
25 know, the people that come about. And if we
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1 have a problem, then we call the appropriate
2 people, you know, and --
3 But there is no problems stemming from our
4 house. In the general area, there might be
5 along 8th Street and the surrounding
6 neighborhoods. But with our house, we are very
7 responsible people in the community.
8 There are a lot of people that work for
9 people around the area. And without the help of
10 Home Away From Home and the services provided by
11 the other surrounding halfway houses, I think
12 there would be a lot more turmoil in the general
13 area.
14 I know I have a minute left, but what I'm
15 saying is -- is that we are good people trying
16 to get better, and we need the assistance that
17 is provided by Home Away From Home.
18 Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Gnatek.
20 I have two more speakers in favor of the
21 bill, Joe Markusic and Kathy Taylor.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Could we add one?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: You can add one, then come
24 up and speak and turn the card in after they
25 finish.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Just give me your
3 name and address for the record, please.
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Donna,
6 and I live at 10321 Haverford Road,
7 Jacksonville, Florida 32218.
8 I'm an alcoholic, and I didn't have the
9 privilege of going to Home Away From Home --
10 it's for males -- but I do have the privilege of
11 going through Alco House, which is also
12 downtown.
13 I know when I'm active in my disease, I'm
14 irresponsible, unaccountable and undisciplined,
15 and what Alco House has offered me was all three
16 of those things. I had mandatory AA meetings
17 that got me in touch with the sobriety that I
18 have now, coming up on three years sober.
19 In that course, when I first went to Alco
20 House, I was afraid to live in that neighborhood
21 the way that it was. I never really went down
22 there. But Alco House gave me that sense of
23 protection.
24 When I got there, I had been laid off from
25 another job. And I'm a carpenter by trade, and
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1 for the last three years I've worked in about an
2 eight-block radius, from Walnut to Perry and
3 from 1st to 8th, and I've been working there for
4 the last three years restoring historic homes.
5 I've just recently, in the last three
6 months, opened up my own business and have been
7 able to afford my own house. You know, halfway
8 houses are good. Not everyone is a success
9 story. You know, I just know that -- in my
10 opinion, that a halfway house was established
11 because somebody was trying to give somebody
12 else a hand up from a debilitating disease like
13 alcohol.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 If you can just turn that card in, we would
17 appreciate it.
18 MS. LYNCH: Where?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Just put it right there is
20 fine.
21 Joe Markusic, followed by Kathy Taylor.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. My name is Joe
24 Markusic, 7027 Alpine Street.
25 I'm here representing Barbara and Grace.
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1 I'm currently treasurer and a board member.
2 I have a little handout I'd like to
3 distribute. It's just a -- we found a copy of
4 the -- let me put my glasses on so I can read
5 it -- a general overview of the overlay, and it
6 does show that -- in writing, prior to that
7 particular meeting on December 5th, that it was
8 100 square feet. Just additional paperwork.
9 One of the concerns our opposition is going
10 to have is we're changing to lesser criteria for
11 the special uses in Springfield. If you look at
12 the overlay, you'll see that we do indeed have
13 additional criteria we have to meet on top of
14 the square footage.
15 The 300 square footage requirement was
16 never a reasonable accommodation. People like
17 Sulzbacher, City Rescue Mission, they do not
18 meet, cannot meet the 300 square foot
19 requirement. The YMCA cannot meet this 300
20 square feet requirement. Asking us to do it is
21 just absurd.
22 There was never the intent of the
23 neighborhood to eliminate the legal existing
24 businesses, special use businesses. It was the
25 intent to incorporate them, help them make the
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1 properties look better and coexist with the
2 neighborhood, and that's been happening.
3 The last few years, with us being there,
4 the neighborhood has come up dramatically, house
5 prices have come up, people -- new people are
6 moving in. And, unfortunately, some of them
7 don't like us being there.
8 We've been there for 20 years at this
9 location. Some of the houses have been there
10 for 40-plus years. We do a service to the
11 neighborhood, we deserve to be there, we have a
12 right to be there. And all we ask is that we be
13 allowed, for our men if nothing else, and the
14 neighborhood, to allow to continue to exist, and
15 we need this 100 square foot to do that.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 Our next speaker is Kathy Taylor, followed
19 by Eddie Johnson, followed by Maurice Williams.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
22 My name is Kathy Taylor. I live at 4520
23 Woolman Avenue in Jacksonville.
24 I have 12,536 days of active sobriety and
25 Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm also a certified
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 addictions professional.
2 I come here as a volunteer from Grace and
3 Barbara, Incorporated, Home Away From Home. I
4 have volunteered for the last 17 years. Today
5 I'd like to speak regarding the Springfield
6 overlay.
7 According to the National Historic
8 Register, an overlay is written for a historic
9 district to ensure integrity of the historic
10 structures in the district. The U.S. Department
11 of Interior, under the auspices of the National
12 Park Service, oversees historic district
13 regulations.
14 In the design guidelines for overlays, it
15 is clearly stated that the guidelines cannot --
16 and I quote -- "control house space within a
17 building as used." They usually deal only with
18 the exterior, publicly-visible portions of the
19 building, and they are not to deal with interior
20 space and how it is laid out or used.
21 And I have some handouts for you with that
22 information from the Department of Interior.
23 After reviewing a number of historic
24 preservation ordinances and overlays that were
25 included on the U.S. Department of Interior's
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1 Web site, it has come to the conclusion -- our
2 conclusion that the City of Jacksonville has
3 overstepped their boundaries in their attempt to
4 restore Springfield. It is our opinion that
5 identification of the alleged causes of blight
6 in this overlay are inappropriate,
7 discriminatory, and prejudicial.
8 It is further our belief that any
9 restriction on use which, in turn, will restrict
10 access to reasonable accommodation is, in fact,
11 a direct violation of the Fair Housing Act, the
12 Americans with Disabilities Act, and thus a
13 violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1968.
14 At this time, we are amenable to accepting
15 this correction in the current overlay to
16 100 square feet per person. We urge you to vote
17 yes. We do, however, believe that the entire
18 overlay should be revisited so that it will
19 become in compliance with the law.
20 We are not politicians and, frankly, I
21 would much prefer to spend my energy doing what
22 I love to do, which is helping people to
23 recover. However, we will take whatever steps
24 it takes to keep 1733 North Pearl Street open
25 and serving people as it has for the last
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1 20 years.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 Our next speakers are Eddie Johnson,
5 followed by Louise De Spain, followed by Maurice
6 Williams.
7 And Eddie Johnson is -- if the LUZ members
8 don't know it, he is the current chair of the
9 Planning Commission.
10 (Mr. Johnson approaches the podium.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: We welcome you and we thank
12 you for your Commission service to our
13 community.
14 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.
15 My name is Eddie Johnson. I'm at 145 West
16 3rd Street.
17 I'm actually here to speak on behalf of the
18 Planning Commission and to explain to y'all why
19 we denied this legislation at our last meeting.
20 When the City Council approved the
21 Springfield historic zoning overlay, the
22 following were conclusions of substantial
23 competent evidence as to why the zoning overlay
24 was required.
25 First, over a period of many years, zoning
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1 and land use changes in Springfield have served
2 to encourage the decline of the area and not its
3 redevelopment.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Johnson, could you slow
5 down a little bit to make sure that Diane can
6 get --
7 MR. JOHNSON: Sure. I just want to make
8 sure I get all this in.
9 The district has been negatively affected
10 by current zoning which does not recognize the
11 unique character of the neighborhood, and the
12 City allowed intensive and intrusive uses to
13 locate in the neighborhood and did not encourage
14 the type of development that promotes and
15 sustains a stable, economically-viable and
16 primarily single-family, owner-occupied
17 neighborhood.
18 The historic district is an invaluable
19 resource to the city and its citizens and it
20 should be preserved for future generations. The
21 council, realizing that intensive and intrusive
22 uses cause the decline of the neighborhood and
23 would affect the future redevelopment, drafted
24 and enacted the overlay.
25 The overlay addressed special uses in
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1 656.369, noting the following: They are no
2 longer permitted in the district. Existing
3 special uses may continue if they comply with
4 the standards and criteria set forth. Interior
5 space shall be at least 300 square feet.
6 Occupancy under the current zone breaks
7 down like this: If you have a 2,000-square-foot
8 house, you're supposed to have approximately six
9 to seven people in that house; 3,000, 10; 4,000,
10 13 to 14; it's 13.33, 5,000; 16.67 or 17.
11 It is proven that the current manner in
12 which the code has been enforced and the special
13 uses have been allowed to remain has greatly
14 improved the neighborhood. Crime is down
15 75 percent; single-family home ownership is up;
16 renovations of the existing structures have
17 increased; new development of approximately 70
18 new homes, of which 60 have closed at an average
19 sales price of $350,000 has occurred; transient
20 traffic, which increases crime and amplifies the
21 perception of crime, has been greatly reduced
22 through combined efforts by JSO and SPAR.
23 Many special use occupancies previously
24 allowed have reverted to single-family homes
25 since the overlay has been enforced at one
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1 occupant per 300 square feet.
2 If the code is to change, these special
3 uses would -- the occupancy would break down as
4 follows: 2,000 square feet, 20 people; 3,000
5 square feet, 30 people; 4,000, 40, and so on.
6 It's a 200 percent increase over what the zoning
7 currently allows.
8 That is the Planning Commission's issue.
9 You take -- you're increasing -- you're allowing
10 a grandfathered use to increase this occupancy
11 rate by 200 percent at a single point in a
12 neighborhood. That's unfair. That's not what
13 this city should allow.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
15 Louise De Spain, followed by Maurice
16 Williams.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 MS. DE SPAIN: Good evening.
19 Louise De Spain, 1951 North Liberty
20 Street.
21 Mr. Chairman, councilmembers, I'd like to
22 mention a few things. First of all, I'm here
23 representing the most -- a lot of the people in
24 Springfield and certainly a vast majority of
25 board members. I've been in personal contact
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1 with most of them during these last few days,
2 and there's an overwhelming response to this,
3 and that is that we'd like for you to deny
4 this -- we'd like for you to deny this exception
5 and to keep the current 300 square feet.
6 We believe that it was the intent of the
7 City Council, when they passed the zoning
8 overlay, to have this be at 300 square feet.
9 Now, we're not here to say that they should
10 put out the people who are there now. We're
11 here to say that there should be certain living
12 conditions for the people who are residing in
13 these places.
14 And he's already mentioned, if you think
15 about 2,000 square feet, 20 men in a house or
16 women, as the case may be, is a lot of people.
17 They use a static of, I believe, eight
18 bedrooms. The most current record from the
19 property appraiser's office says that at 1733
20 Pearl Street, there are five bedrooms and three
21 baths. So we would dispute that, if that really
22 is.
23 So we're looking at -- they said, in their
24 words, 18 to 20 people. Eighteen people or so
25 sharing three baths and five bedrooms, I would
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1 dispute that that is comfortable living
2 conditions.
3 Several points here that I want to mention,
4 if I might, and that is, of the original
5 performance standards, it said that the -- there
6 would be 300 square feet.
7 Now, in the zoning overlay -- I'm sorry.
8 Let me go back to my notes here.
9 I believe it was Mr. Teal who talked about
10 the transcripts and the fact that Mr. McEachin
11 mentioned the 100 square feet, and there was --
12 it's shown in the transcript. There was this
13 discussion about bringing forth this 100 square
14 feet, but there was never any motion made, there
15 was never a second. So basically there was
16 never really an action taken on that.
17 If you move down to the next part of that
18 transcript, it does talk about three other
19 things, but it doesn't actually -- they voted on
20 those three things. They didn't vote -- or at
21 least it doesn't show in the transcript that
22 they did vote on that.
23 I think the last thing I would say is that
24 Springfield has worked extremely hard and the
25 City of Jacksonville and the City Council has
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1 worked extremely hard with us. You've been a
2 part of that, all of you have. And for us to
3 take the steps back and actually have more
4 restrictive conditions for the Springfield area
5 that would be existing in any other part of
6 Duval County I think is ridiculous, and I would
7 like for you to consider keeping this at 300
8 square feet.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Our next speaker is Maurice Williams,
12 followed by Alberta Hipps, followed by Lorraine
13 Lee.
14 Mr. Williams?
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was going to speak on a
16 different amendment. I was going to speak on
17 2007-1010.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: On -1018?
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: -1010.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. -1010. Okay. That's
21 fine. If you'll have a seat, we'll get you on
22 -1010. I'm sorry. My mistake.
23 Ms. Hipps.
24 (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)
25 MS. HIPPS: Thank you.
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1 I have some handouts if I could get the
2 aide to pass these out before my time starts,
3 Mr. Chairman, if that's all right.
4 Alberta Hipps, 10250 Normandy Boulevard,
5 32221.
6 Councilmembers, I'm here -- in 2000 -- to
7 testify to the fact that in 2000 this bill came
8 before the City Council, when I was president of
9 the City Council. It was introduced when
10 Councilwoman Soud was the president in April.
11 In the handout that I just gave you, I'm
12 going to start from the back pages, if you would
13 follow with me.
14 The original bill was 2000-302, and you
15 have pages there -- a couple of pages that are
16 the report of the Planning Department, and the
17 report of the Planning Department right from the
18 start recommended 300 square feet of interior
19 space per resident. Now, I must remind you that
20 that includes closets and habitable area, so
21 just keep that in mind.
22 As Mr. Teal has testified today, you have
23 this transcript that he mentioned that is
24 starting on page 56. We've highlighted some
25 areas for you to pay attention to. There is
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1 discussion there.
2 Mr. McEachin is discussing on page 56 --
3 when you turn over to page 57, he does mention
4 about -- it shall be at least 100 square feet.
5 There's never a vote taken on his comments
6 there.
7 When you go on page 50, Ms. Matchett talks
8 about that this bill has been pending for quite
9 a while and that there are new language here and
10 there are three examples that she's found. She
11 talks about one in line 13 through 15, another
12 one in lines 20 through 22, and the third in the
13 lines at the bottom of page 58.
14 And Ms. Matchett then says on page 59, do
15 you want to do all three of them? And they said
16 yes. And so she says she has all three of them
17 as I've just outlined, not including the 100
18 square feet as I read it.
19 And then if you would bear with me in terms
20 of what this is really about. It's setting the
21 community standards. As was discussed with
22 Mr. Teal this afternoon, it's really in terms of
23 public policy of this City Council of setting
24 such a situation.
25 And I think that you need to understand
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1 that your urban core CPAC has gone in favor of
2 you opposing this. And I would urge that the
3 district councilperson, Mr. Gaffney, perhaps
4 submit an amendment into the record that it
5 would be amended to 300 feet and you would vote
6 on that in the affirmative so this can be
7 settled.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Our next speaker is Lorraine Lee, followed
11 by Gerry Troy.
12 Ms. Lee.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm not here for this
14 one.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: She is here in opposition to
16 this legislation.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Not for this one.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, she's not here -- you're
19 right. I'm sorry. She's here on -1010.
20 That's when you put the chairman in charge,
21 this is what happens.
22 Gerry Troy, followed by Jack Meeks,
23 followed by Andrew Trautmann.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. How are
2 you?
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: First I want to say, as a
5 resident of Springfield -- I'm sorry. I live
6 at -- my name is Gerry Troy. I live at 124 East
7 4th Street in Springfield -- that nobody --
8 nobody here wants to close down any kind of
9 halfway house. That is not the intention of any
10 of us here today opposing this -- this formula.
11 What we want to do is to make sure that the
12 halfway houses that do exist are both legal --
13 and I know that this one is, and it's served
14 well for 20 years, but not all of them in
15 Springfield are -- and that they adhere to the
16 standards that are good for the community and
17 for the residents of these houses.
18 Springfield is in a different phase than it
19 was 20 years ago when the renovation and the
20 restoration began. The phase now -- the phase
21 we're in now is best used in terms of
22 Springfield as a viable community with six major
23 medical facilities, Florida Community -- FCCJ,
24 Bethel Baptist Church, Karpeles Museum, and
25 houses which are going for 3-, 4-, $500,000.
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1 It is the intention of everyone that I know
2 in Springfield that Springfield become the place
3 that is in Jacksonville, possibly the first
4 truly integrated community with people of every
5 color, every socioeconomic bracket.
6 We absolutely do not want to kick out
7 halfway houses and rooming houses. We welcome
8 them into the community, but they have to meet
9 certain standards.
10 Speaking as a director of patient services
11 at the University of Florida Proton Therapy
12 Institute, my job is to place patients, make
13 sure that patients who are coming from out of
14 town find a good place to live. It is our goal
15 to place these patients in Springfield and
16 downtown as often as possible because it is
17 close to the hospital, it is close to the
18 facilities, and we can get them into treatment
19 very quickly.
20 This formula will work -- will negate
21 that -- will negate all the work I've been
22 trying to do and we've been trying to do to get
23 patients into the community, and staff.
24 As a resident of Springfield, I don't want
25 to see my community all of a sudden be filled
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1 with 2,000-square-foot houses with 15 people in
2 them. This is a detriment to the community that
3 I live in.
4 And speaking as a master of social work and
5 as a professional community organizer, a house
6 with 100 square foot per patient is
7 warehousing. It's bad for the client, it's bad
8 for the community.
9 And that's all I have to say. Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Just as an aside, keep up the great work of
12 the Proton Center as doing wonderful work.
13 MR. TROY: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Lee has a
15 question.
16 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
18 All right. Mr. Meeks, followed by Andrew
19 Trautmann.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jack Meeks. My wife and
22 I live at 1206 Hubbard Street. And I, as well,
23 have my CPA practice at 1354 North Laura
24 Street.
25 The concerns I have -- and just to use our
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1 block as an example -- would be that this would
2 at least potentially change the character of the
3 block that my wife and I live in.
4 A quick overview of that, we have
5 approximately 15 homes between 2nd and 3rd
6 Street on Hubbard. All of those homes, to my
7 knowledge, were at one time single-family, and
8 most have gone back to single-family.
9 We still have a rooming house that's two
10 doors down from our house. And for the most
11 part, we get along comfortably together. I'm
12 very concerned, though, that that would not
13 continue to be true if that rooming house, which
14 is now, I would say, 2,500 to 3,000 square feet,
15 was allowed to have 25 or 30 occupants. It
16 would just not be the same.
17 We also have in our block a three-quarter
18 house, and we also have what I think is a
19 fourplex. So all of us get along well within
20 this one block.
21 And the next block we have a halfway
22 house. I think it was actually owned at one
23 time by Mr. Hubbard, who was the developer of
24 the area.
25 So we're able to get along well together as
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1 it now currently stands, but I'd have grave
2 concerns if we were to go to this standard that
3 would allow, effectively, two doors down from
4 where my wife and I live, to have maybe 25 or
5 30 residents.
6 Thank you very much.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Our final speaker card I have is from
9 Andrew Trautmann.
10 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 My name is Andrew Trautmann. I'm a
13 resident and I live at 133 West 5th Street, and
14 I'm also a developer in historic Springfield and
15 am here to speak in opposition to this
16 legislation.
17 I have been involved in Springfield since
18 1986. I came down here from Atlanta and worked
19 close with John Delaney and the administration
20 and Jeannie Fewell.
21 I spent five years on the Municipal Code
22 Enforcement Board for Zone 1, I spent seven
23 years on the SPAR board, I spent two years on
24 the Neighborhood Housing Services board, and
25 have spent well over $4 million in Springfield
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1 and done over 35 projects.
2 One of the most significant observations
3 about Springfield -- and even Landers & Atkins
4 was planning consultants the City hired, and I
5 can remember several conversations with Jeannie
6 Fewell, was that not so much the illegal -- or
7 the legal boarding houses, but the illegal
8 warehousing of people that was taking place in
9 Springfield in the early '80s.
10 Now, I don't know how many of you people
11 remember that far back, but there was not only
12 the legal boarding houses, there were illegal
13 boarding houses where people were literally
14 being warehoused in Springfield. And the issues
15 that were discussed during the overlay was to
16 definitely make that not a possibility in the
17 future.
18 And 300 square feet is certainly
19 reasonable. One hundred square feet, as Eddie
20 said, in a 2,000-square-foot structure would
21 allow 20 people, which is just totally
22 unacceptable and it wouldn't be allowed anywhere
23 else in the city.
24 The eight boarding houses that were
25 closed -- there was three on Boulevard and four
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1 on Laura Street that the State, I believe,
2 closed for various violations -- went from
3 transferring those areas completely in terms of
4 people's willingness to come in as my customers
5 and live in buildings that I had renovated. And
6 we've seen our rents rise substantially, we've
7 seen people that were two, three years ago
8 totally unwilling to live in Springfield
9 now wanting to live, rent, or buy or build a
10 house in Springfield.
11 And I can tell you for sure that the
12 downzoning and the elimination of illegal
13 boarding houses and the density reduction in
14 Springfield has played a major part in that, and
15 I hope that you'll listen to my compadres here
16 and oppose this legislation.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 I have no further speaker cards, so the
20 public hearing on 2007-1046 is closed.
21 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I apologize for not
22 raising my hand.
23 Could I get the gentleman's last name and
24 exactly what did he do? Did he rebuild a lot of
25 the homes?
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Trautmann?
2 MS. LEE: Trautmann. What is his --
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Trautmann, could you
4 come back up and answer the councilwoman's
5 question, please.
6 MR. TRAUTMANN: (Complies.)
7 We have built new houses, but we've mostly
8 restored old houses. We won four preservation
9 awards from the City, two preservation awards
10 from the State, received an award -- two awards
11 from National Neighborhood Works for the work
12 that we did in Springfield.
13 All of our projects have met the guidelines
14 for the National Park Service, the director.
15 Everything that we do, we always consult with
16 Joel McEachin and staff.
17 MS. LEE: Through the Chair, I guess my
18 question was -- I didn't hear it. When you
19 referred to "we," who are you talking about?
20 You mean you as an individual?
21 MR. TRAUTMANN: I had a partner on some
22 projects.
23 MS. LEE: You mean as an individual
24 contractor?
25 MR. TRAUTMANN: Right.
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1 We have a company, and I have a partner.
2 And in several projects, we have partners. Some
3 projects it's just me individually. So I'm kind
4 of speaking euphemistically, I guess. But I do
5 represent those individuals as well and as to
6 their feelings as well.
7 MS. LEE: Do you live in Springfield?
8 MR. TRAUTMANN: I have lived in Springfield
9 for 19 years.
10 MS. LEE: Okay. Thank you.
11 MR. TRAUTMANN: You're welcome.
12 MS. LEE: Mr. Trautmann is your name?
13 MR. TRAUTMANN: Trautmann, yes.
14 MS. LEE: Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Let's go to Councilmember Gaffney. This
17 was proposed by him.
18 MR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 I'm just very concerned. Of course, I'm an
20 emotional individual as it is. I do have some
21 concerns because as I walked the community -- I
22 know we're supposed to represent the people, and
23 we represent all of the individuals.
24 However, I've walked the community and
25 Springfield is a very unique community. It's
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1 one of the few areas -- an association in
2 Jacksonville that's willing to tax themselves.
3 They're actually willing to tax themselves to
4 beautify their area, their aesthetics. They
5 work together, they fix up each other's houses.
6 It's just a community that's really
7 progressive.
8 My office has been flooded, has really been
9 flooded from individuals in the community. I've
10 had -- as I participated in quite a few of the
11 association and the meetings, and I just got, I
12 think -- in trying to keep up with the character
13 of the community, where they're going.
14 We really haven't had any problems one way
15 or the other as it relates to the square
16 footage; therefore, I just -- I think I would
17 have to support -- I've had an outcry from the
18 community to go with 300 square feet, and I just
19 would hope that we consider that, an amendment
20 to it.
21 Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
23 Gaffney.
24 We have nothing formally before the
25 committee at this point, so I would entertain a
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1 motion.
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller.
4 MS. ELLER: If Mr. Gaffney could clarify
5 for the committee, is it your suggestion that we
6 amend this pending bill to permit the existing
7 code at 300 feet to remain and not make the
8 correction to 100 feet?
9 MR. GAFFNEY: Yes.
10 MS. ELLER: If that's the case, I'll go to
11 Mr. Teal as to whether or not the bill would be
12 required and whether it could just be
13 withdrawn. I'd like to get that clarification
14 from Mr. Teal.
15 MR. TEAL: Through the Chair to the
16 committee, there would have to be an amendment
17 to the pending legislation because what was
18 actually adopted in 2000 was the 100 square foot
19 requirement, and that's not reflected in the
20 zoning code.
21 So, in essence, this bill needs official
22 council action in order to ratify whatever
23 square footage requirements that the
24 policy-makers determine appropriate.
25 MS. ELLER: You need an amendment.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So we need an
2 amendment.
3 MS. ELLER: What would the amendment be,
4 Jason?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: We would need an amendment
6 to amend the bill from 100 square feet to
7 300 square feet. Is that what you're saying,
8 Mr. Teal?
9 MR. TEAL: The amendment would be to change
10 the legislation from 100 square feet per
11 resident to 300 square feet per resident.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Obviously, we're on
13 the amendment first.
14 So do I have a motion on that amendment?
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: So moved.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Do I have a second?
17 MS. LEE: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to amend
19 2007-1046, the language that relates to
20 100 square feet, to change it to 300 square
21 feet.
22 Councilmember Shad, you have a question?
23 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
24 Through the Chair to Mr. Teal, the current
25 code reads 100?
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1 MR. TEAL: The current code in, you know,
2 the big red book zoning code actually reads
3 300. What was adopted by the council in 2000
4 was 100. Through an error, that was never
5 codified as part of the zoning code.
6 MR. SHAD: Today, outside the legislation,
7 if someone went to Mr. Mullaney and asked for an
8 opinion, what is our code?
9 MR. TEAL: The code is 100.
10 MR. SHAD: Okay. Currently?
11 MR. TEAL: Currently.
12 MR. SHAD: And I don't see why the
13 legislation was needed in the first place. I'm
14 a little confused by it.
15 MR. TEAL: Well, the reason why the
16 legislation was needed in the first place was
17 because the motion that was made to LUZ back in
18 2000 was to have it be 100. That never made it
19 as part of the LUZ amendment that was presented
20 to council, so it was never changed. So you've
21 got this inconsistency because council voted on
22 300.
23 MR. SHAD: I understand. I just note that
24 that's what -- the general counsel solves that
25 by declaring what our code is.
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1 If it's 100 now -- I know things have
2 changed. Now it's the wish of this
3 councilperson to go to 300, but I just -- seems
4 like we didn't need it in the first place. But
5 I understand what you're saying. These are
6 household and you're cleaning this up a little
7 bit.
8 That being said, what is the status of this
9 property that the speakers have come up? Do
10 they just have to close the doors or go down to
11 300 per person?
12 MR. TEAL: What they would be required to
13 do -- because the code doesn't allow for any
14 sort of grandfathering, and so what they would
15 be required to do would be to either conform the
16 rooming house to increase the square footage per
17 residents to 300 square feet or it would require
18 them to close down.
19 MR. SHAD: Ma'am, could you come back up?
20 Where is the lady who is in charge?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Looking for somebody in
22 charge?
23 MR. SHAD: Yeah, please.
24 MS. MARKUSIC: (Inaudible.)
25 MR. SHAD: Oh, you can come on up.
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1 Sir, how long have you been open operating
2 with the number of people you have now?
3 MR. MARKUSIC: About 20 years.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and give us your
5 name and address real quick.
6 MR. MARKUSIC: Joe Markusic, 7027 Alpine
7 Street.
8 I'm representing Barbara and Grace. I'm
9 currently the treasurer.
10 MR. SHAD: How long have you been operating
11 at the current capacity?
12 MR. MARKUSIC: Twenty years.
13 That 300 square foot requirement will close
14 our doors, will close every single halfway house
15 in Springfield.
16 MR. SHAD: I understand. Thank you.
17 Stand by.
18 It would be nice as a committee if we
19 can -- I have no problem with 300 feet going
20 forward as a -- for the community. I do have a
21 problem shutting down a facility that's been
22 doing business a certain way for 20 years. I
23 could not vote for action today that would shut
24 them down.
25 I could vote for something that would put
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1 rules in place going forward, but not taking an
2 entity that certainly serves a vital purpose and
3 then shutting them down or taking them down to
4 30 percent capacity of what they currently have.
5 I haven't heard any testimony that there's
6 been any problems with this entity that's being
7 affected by this legislation, and I couldn't
8 take action to shut down a facility.
9 It seems like there's probably some
10 creative way that we could solve the community's
11 needs to have this floor of 300 feet per person
12 going forward, but also to grandfather in this
13 entity and maybe any others that have been doing
14 business properly for the last 20 years.
15 So short of finding that compromise, I
16 probably would vote against anything that would
17 shut their doors down.
18 Thank you.
19 MR. MARKUSIC: Mr. Chairman.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
21 MR. MARKUSIC: I don't know if it's
22 appropriate, but one of the concerns that I've
23 heard is that we can suddenly open new houses.
24 That is not -- that cannot happen under the
25 zoning overlay. This 300 to 100, 100 to 300,
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1 whatever it is, doesn't change that.
2 The other thing is we, as a house, as a
3 business, cannot increase our guys. If we have
4 2,500 square feet and 18 guys, that's the way it
5 is. Twenty guys, that's the way it is. We
6 cannot go to 25 guys. We have a State license
7 that states how many people we're allowed.
8 We are licensed, we are legal by the
9 State. All we are asking is just reasonable
10 accommodation.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: How many square feet are in
12 your current facility?
13 You have to speak into the mic and give me
14 your --
15 MR. MARKUSIC: (Inaudible.)
16 MS. DEVALL: (Inaudible.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Either tell him or
18 tell me or you have to give your name and
19 address.
20 MS. DEVALL: I'll tell you.
21 I'm Gloria Devall, president of Barbara and
22 Grace.
23 I believe it's 2,800 --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Come to the microphone so we
25 can hear you.
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1 MS. DEVALL: I believe it's 2,800 square
2 feet, although I'm not entirely sure. I didn't
3 check the square footage lately. I think the
4 property appraiser's database needs to be
5 updated. Well, I believe that the -- we have
6 more bathrooms and more square footage than the
7 property appraiser's database indicates, but I
8 haven't measured it lately.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: How many residents can live
10 in your facility?
11 MS. DEVALL: We have between 14 and 18
12 residents. Three of them are staff, and they
13 also live there.
14 Part of our issue here is that we are not a
15 rooming house in that we have to have a cook and
16 we provide services that rooming houses don't
17 provide.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: When you say 14 to 18,
19 there's a maximum that can be there?
20 MS. DEVALL: Correct.
21 Our maximum by the State is 20. We can't
22 have 20 if we don't have the room for 20, but
23 we -- the State has licensed us for 20.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
25 Councilman Yarborough has a question.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you.
2 Ms. Hipps, would you mind coming back up
3 for just a minute, please? I had a question
4 about one of the handouts that you've given us.
5 In -- I think it's a copy. At the time, it
6 says original text of 2000-302.
7 MS. HIPPS: Yes.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: When you flip through it,
9 at the bottom it says 37, page 37. And then at
10 the top there, where you've highlighted it, it
11 says interior space shall exceed 300 square
12 feet. I'm just -- I'm a little confused 100,
13 300.
14 What was actually -- was there something
15 different that was -- I'm sorry. Was there
16 something different --
17 MS. HIPPS: No, it was really --
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: -- by LUZ versus the
19 council? What's on the books now, I guess, is
20 what I'm trying to say.
21 MS. HIPPS: What's on the books now, if you
22 look in the zoning code, it is 300 feet.
23 And, Councilmembers, the situation is that
24 you've heard testimony earlier that no one wants
25 to shut these -- this particular facility down.
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1 And I appreciate the opportunity to say we want
2 reasonable ability for people to have a place,
3 and we think that the community standard at
4 300 feet is -- throughout the --
5 If you go less than that, it's going to be
6 a real concern for whatever neighborhoods that
7 this may be -- you know, be in.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. So in --
9 MS. HIPPS: But please don't think that
10 they're going to shut down. I mean, I don't
11 think -- I think that's to the extreme.
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. So it --
13 And, Mr. Teal, it was --
14 Thank you, Ms. Hipps. I appreciate that.
15 Did you read, too, that it was 300, but
16 we've been applying 100? Or what's been going
17 on since this was going in the ordinance code?
18 MR. TEAL: 2000-302 was initially
19 introduced to the City Council reading
20 300 square feet. There was an amendment made at
21 the LUZ Committee to drop that from 300 to 100,
22 which was adopted by the LUZ Committee,
23 subsequently adopted by the City Council. There
24 was a floor amendment to change it.
25 So what was adopted by the council was
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1 100 square feet, but -- and I'm looking at the
2 amendment that was created on that. In essence,
3 what the author of that amendment forgot to do
4 was -- she made all of the changes that were
5 requested by Mr. McEachin except for the one to
6 drop it from 300 to 100. All the other changes
7 requested on that line were made in her
8 amendment except for the 100 square feet. So
9 that's where the mistake occurred, was that the
10 100 square feet was adopted by LUZ. It was
11 never made part of the LUZ amendment. So,
12 therefore, the City Council --
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Approved 300.
14 MR. TEAL: -- approved 300.
15 So now you've got these competing --
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Right.
17 MR. TEAL: You know, what came out of
18 committee wasn't reflected in what the City
19 Council voted on.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thanks.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: And Mr. Gaffney's request
22 for amendment is codifying the 300.
23 MR. TEAL: It would codify 300, correct.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: And, Ms. Hipps, if you'd
25 come back up for a second, I have a question for
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1 you.
2 MS. HIPPS: (Complies.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: In essence, we've amended it
4 to what you stated.
5 MS. HIPPS: Yes.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: And it sounds like Mr. Teal
7 just confirmed what you said earlier, that the
8 300 -- the 100 was never voted on.
9 MS. HIPPS: That's right.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: That the -- there was a
11 300 --
12 MS. HIPPS: And it was the recommendation
13 of the Planning Department from day one. That's
14 how the Planning Department report was approved,
15 at 300. I've talked to Mr. McEachin and he's
16 not sure -- he can't, you know, remember all
17 those details. And you can see -- and with
18 everyone serving on Land Use and Zoning, how
19 things can be back and forth.
20 So I think this -- when you hopefully
21 approve this amendment, that will codify it and
22 then it will be clear.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And I have to agree
24 that changing from 100 to 300 is not going to
25 shut down a facility. It will make it
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1 financially more difficult for facilities by the
2 number of people they can serve, and we're going
3 to have -- potentially have a need for
4 additional services in the community to be able
5 to serve a population. I would argue we
6 probably already have that need at this point.
7 I guess my question to the Planning
8 Department is, if you were going to open a new
9 center today, what standard would you be held
10 to?
11 MR. KELLY: Currently, through the Chair to
12 the Council, within the Springfield overlay,
13 they cannot open a new rooming house as was
14 previously mentioned.
15 Rooming houses in general, though, are
16 permitted by exception within the RMD, the RHD,
17 CRO, and CCB-D districts. Typically, these
18 districts are densities at 15 to 20 or more
19 units an acre.
20 So when we're looking at it in the context
21 of Springfield, where you have essentially
22 development that is seven to ten units an acre,
23 primarily less dense, I think, that's when we're
24 looking at that performance standard.
25 And through an exception, we would impose a
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1 square footage amount through perhaps a
2 condition in a zoning exception on a new rooming
3 house that was outside of Springfield, so we
4 could incorporate maybe some of that same
5 criteria.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: So what would you
7 incorporate, what footage?
8 MS. ELLER: They're not permitted at all.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: It's not permitted at all?
10 MR. KELLY: It's not permitted by right at
11 all. But depending on the zoning district and
12 the characteristics of an area, if it was a
13 high-density neighborhood or a medium-density
14 neighborhood, depending on the location, then we
15 would impose a different, probably, standard on
16 it, depending on the location.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you think you would ever
18 permit 100 square foot per resident, or do you
19 think you would be permitting more -- 300 square
20 foot per resident or more than that?
21 MR. KELLY: Well, when you get into your
22 RHD-B zoning districts, your residential
23 densities go up to 60 units an acre or more, and
24 even more -- in the CCB-D they're at that level
25 also.
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1 So it wouldn't be unreasonable in maybe a
2 situation like that where you have the high
3 density as opposed to a traditional,
4 single-family, site-built neighborhood. So --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
6 I'll address the amendment to the bill. I
7 support the amendment. I don't want to -- I
8 don't want any one of these services to close in
9 the community, but at the same time, a zoning
10 overlay is created for special circumstances for
11 a special area, and that's what occurred at this
12 point.
13 Reading through the transcripts, reading
14 through the evidence that former Council
15 President Hipps presented, who was at the
16 meeting the night that this particular thing
17 took place, I have to agree that I don't think
18 we ever voted on reducing from 300 to 100.
19 And so I think that most everybody knew
20 that's where the community was moving to at this
21 point, so I will support the amendment as
22 proposed. And if the amendment passes, then I
23 would support the bill.
24 I don't see any other discussion on the
25 amendment.
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1 All in favor of the amendment signal by
2 saying aye.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's try that again. I
7 only had two votes.
8 Let's do a show of hands.
9 All in favor of the amendment to the
10 amendment raise your hand.
11 (Indicating.)
12 MS. LEE: (Indicating.)
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Indicating.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
15 MR. SHAD: (Indicating.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Three to one. That
17 amendment --
18 MS. ELLER: The amendment can carry by a
19 simple majority. But in order to get a bill
20 voted out of committee with a recommendation,
21 you need a concurrence of four members, and
22 Mr. Holt is not a voting member at this point.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
24 So the amendment passes.
25 Well, actually, we were on the bill
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1 originally.
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion on the bill as
4 amended.
5 Do I have a second?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Do I have a second on the
8 bill?
9 MS. LEE: Yes.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
11 on 2007-1046 as amended.
12 Discussion on the bill?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I see no discussion on the
15 bill.
16 So all in favor -- open the ballot and
17 record the vote.
18 (Committee ballot opened.)
19 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
20 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. SHAD: (Votes nay.)
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Three yeas, one nay.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, the bill has
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1 been deferred because it did not have the
2 required votes to move out of committee. It
3 needed four.
4 (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)
5 MS. HIPPS: Mr. Chairman, sorry.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Hipps.
7 MS. HIPPS: May I ask a procedural
8 question, then?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
10 MS. HIPPS: Could you just, for the record,
11 state where the bill stands now?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I will go to Ms. Eller so
13 we'll have an official status of the bill.
14 MS. HIPPS: Thank you.
15 MS. ELLER: Thank you.
16 The bill is deferred because our council
17 rules require that, in order to have a committee
18 report, you need the concurrence of four
19 members.
20 It's my recommendation that the council --
21 that the chairman go back and reopen that public
22 hearing. So that way, when it does come up
23 before the committee again, hopefully with more
24 members than four present, there would be an
25 opportunity for those members sitting to hear
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1 additional testimony.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
3 MS. HIPPS: Mr. Chairman, could I ask a
4 procedural question?
5 Would it be possible to discharge this with
6 the vote that you have?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Would it be possible to
8 discharge this?
9 MS. HIPPS: Yes. When that -- you've had a
10 positive vote out of the committee, and then
11 could it be discharged --
12 MS. ELLER: Pursuant to council --
13 MS. HIPPS: -- from committee at all?
14 MS. ELLER: Pursuant to council --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me have Ms. Eller answer
16 all that.
17 MS. ELLER: Pursuant to council rules, any
18 bill may be discharged from any committee with
19 the required votes at the full council. So --
20 and the discharge means that there's no
21 committee report.
22 MS. HIPPS: So, Mr. Chairman, I would
23 request that you would carefully consider that.
24 In fact, I would ask that that could happen.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I will take that into
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1 consideration.
2 MS. HIPPS: Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: At this point, I am going to
4 reopen the public hearing on 2007-1046.
5 Having no speakers --
6 Actually, I don't have to recognize
7 speakers. We will continue this public hearing
8 till November 20th.
9 And at this point, it is now 7:42, we will
10 stop and take a break so our court reporter
11 Diane can take a break and recover her fingers
12 that she has lost by now and we will begin back
13 on the agenda in a few minutes.
14 We will start again in ten minutes.
15 (Brief recess.)
16 (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmembers, if you'll
18 look at page 7. We're on item 21 for Mr. Holt.
19 We're going to take up 2007-919.
20 (Lighting failure.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know if we can --
22 somebody hit the button over there.
23 MR. MANN: Is this a special effect for my
24 benefit or y'all's?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: There we go.
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1 Okay. We'll go ahead and --
2 MR. MANN: Was that a commentary on my
3 presentation?
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know if that was a
5 special effect or not, Mr. Mann. I don't know
6 if that had to do with the bill or not.
7 2007-919, members, we're -- it's on
8 page 7.
9 And if I could ask Ms. Eller, before we get
10 started, just to kind of get us in the right
11 posture for how we're going to take up this bill
12 and then we'll get into the comment side.
13 Thank you.
14 MS. ELLER: Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair,
15 acting as Chair.
16 We are on 2007-919, which is an appeal of a
17 decision from the Planning Commission regarding
18 a minor modification to a PUD.
19 The appeal came from the applicant. The
20 minor modification to the PUD was denied by the
21 Planning Commission below, so you have the
22 applicant asking you to overturn that Planning
23 Commission recommendation.
24 There was no request made for a formal
25 quasi-judicial hearing. So, therefore, we
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1 revert to our informal quasi-judicial rules,
2 which is generally at the chairman's
3 discretion. We give each side equal time. We
4 usually start with about ten minutes, with the
5 applicant able to reserve some time for
6 rebuttal, and then, depending on how many
7 speakers you have on the opposite side, ensuring
8 that the applicant does get about that same
9 amount of time.
10 In this scenario, the applicant is here.
11 And then the other side, if you will, is likely
12 just the Planning Department staff explaining
13 what the Planning Commission recommended.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I have four speaker
15 cards total, one is Mr. Mann's, and then we have
16 three that oppose this. So would it be ten
17 minutes for him and then --
18 MS. ELLER: If you have three there and you
19 give each one of those folks three minutes --
20 plus, you're going to want to hear from the
21 Planning Department as the Planning Commission,
22 you know, staff. So you'll likely have to give
23 the applicant a little bit more time, so that
24 way it's balanced on either side.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So we'll let Mr. Mann
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1 go first, and then hear from the other folks,
2 and then come back and do --
3 MS. ELLER: And, typically, we ask our
4 staff down here to kind of keep track of how
5 much time is being spent by the Planning
6 Department and the other speakers so Mr. Mann
7 can have that equal time.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: And Mr. Cassada and our
9 staff will help us stay in the right position on
10 that.
11 Okay. Mr. Mann, welcome. You're up first.
12 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
13 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, members of the
14 committee, my name is Charles Mann, 165
15 Arlington Road, representing the Heekin family
16 and the Sleiman family in this rezoning -- or
17 this appeal of a minor modification. It is not
18 a rezoning.
19 You, tonight, are sitting here as a jury.
20 You're sitting here looking at the criteria that
21 the Planning Commission reviewed in the original
22 application for the minor modification and
23 deciding whether they correctly applied the
24 three criteria to this application.
25 Now, what is before you tonight is a
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1 modification in height. We're requesting a
2 deviation from 35 feet to 45 feet. The reason
3 for this is in that our original application we
4 requested 35 feet, but at this point in time,
5 the project had not been engineered. And in
6 trying to take into consideration the guidelines
7 that are set forth in the Northside Vision
8 Plan -- the low country style architecture, a
9 high roof, a high pitched roof -- we were unable
10 to bring this project in under the 35 feet.
11 You're going to hear that we made a deal
12 with the community to limit this to 35 feet.
13 That is not true. The Planning -- the community
14 never supported this. We never had an agreement
15 with them. We never gave up our right to come
16 back at a later date and modify our application,
17 and that's what is before you tonight.
18 This is not, however, a question of
19 density. And you're going to hear arguments
20 that are based on density such as we're in the
21 coastal high hazard area, we're not served by
22 water and sewer as arguments to deny that.
23 Those are not arguments to deny a height
24 variance. They may or may not be an argument to
25 deny density at this location, but that's not
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1 what's before you tonight.
2 I'm going to ask you to try to keep an open
3 mind as much as possible in this when there's so
4 much, you know, concern by the neighbors and by
5 the applicant, et cetera, and try to separate
6 out the arguments that address a height variance
7 and an argument that addresses the density of
8 the overall project.
9 But before we go on, this piece of property
10 is located on Batten Island, north of the
11 ferry. The history of this was we met with the
12 neighborhood association out there. They took
13 an original vote of neutrality. They didn't
14 support it, they didn't deny it.
15 At a later meeting, where we were not
16 invited, they took a vote to recommend -- make a
17 recommendation of denial to the area
18 councilman.
19 This, then, appeared before the Planning
20 Commission and it was approved. It appeared
21 before the LUZ Committee and was approved. It
22 appeared before the City Council and was
23 approved. The council voted for it, I believe,
24 unanimously.
25 I would like to hand out my first handout.
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1 This is the architectural rendering that was
2 submitted at the Planning Commission for what
3 the project will look like. As you can see, it
4 looks like a very large home, and that's the
5 design of the project.
6 Although the project is for five buildings,
7 ten units total, this is actually a duplex
8 building. But the design of the building is for
9 a very large riverfront home, trying to adopt
10 the architectural style of the low country and
11 some of the features of the Broward house, which
12 is an historically-significant residence --
13 structure on the island.
14 As you can see, it's awful hard to
15 differentiate whether that -- it's a duplex or a
16 single home. And that was the intent of the
17 project, again, trying to blend in with the
18 changes in the community.
19 But let's talk about the things we know for
20 just a minute. R-2006-1288(E) approved ten
21 units, five buildings at this site. That's not
22 going to change no matter what happens tonight.
23 The footprint of the building, which is my next
24 handout, is not going to change. We're going to
25 live by this footprint. That was submitted as
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1 part of the original application. We're asking
2 for no change to that.
3 We're not affected by concurrency. We have
4 a CCAS for this. We did not have to do a fair
5 share agreement, and we're not affecting any of
6 the traffic issues as far as concurrency is
7 concerned. There are some issues dealing with
8 water and sewer that we will address at a later
9 date in the application -- or in the report.
10 You're going to hear that we're in the
11 coastal high hazard area. When we did the
12 presentation for R-2006-1288(E), Mr. Harden,
13 previously that night, had referenced the 2006
14 legislature had changed the criteria for the
15 coastal high hazard area.
16 At that time, I had a topographical map,
17 and Mr. Herzberg, who is my expert witness again
18 tonight, to interpret that topographical map.
19 And at that point in time, it was found that we
20 were out of the coastal high hazard area. So
21 any reference to denial of this based on coastal
22 high hazard or being in the coastal high hazard
23 area should be disregarded.
24 The other thing that the Planning
25 Department is going to tell you is we're not
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1 served by a central water and sewer system, and
2 that they're absolutely correct on. There is no
3 central water and sewer system on Batten Island,
4 but what they didn't tell you was that
5 R-2006-1288(E) was conditioned by the council
6 that we have to have a State permit for what is
7 called a fast system. This is a new septic
8 system that is being used down in the Keys, it's
9 being used in State parks, it's been used in
10 various multifamily projects. And with the
11 granting of that permit, and also a State permit
12 for a well, the project can go forward.
13 But that's not really a question of
14 height. That's, again, a function of density,
15 as well as being in the coastal high hazard
16 area. So those two issues should not be
17 considered as grounds for denial of this.
18 Taking this a step further, the Planning
19 Department tells you we're located in a
20 residential area.
21 Now, Batten Island has two zoning
22 categories. One is CCG-2, and that's a strip of
23 land that runs parallel to the river on the east
24 side of Heckscher Drive. On the west side is
25 Heckscher Drive, predominately an LDR, low
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1 density residential zoning. However, it is
2 broken in places where there is CCG-2 zoning
3 there.
4 But on another application, it also deals
5 with this same strip of land that is before you
6 tonight.
7 If you'll bear with me for just one
8 second.
9 The Planning Department tells you that this
10 strip of land -- and I quote -- and this is for
11 a second item that is before you tonight on
12 Batten Island on Heckscher Drive -- "The
13 proposed development is surrounded by intense
14 commercial development," like those found in
15 CCG-2. The zoning category there is outside --
16 "There is an outside boat storage facility to
17 the south of the property, a septic tank service
18 company" --
19 Again, this was not necessarily a septic
20 tank service company. This was a fellow who was
21 getting a septic tank put in, but they're
22 claiming that's a business that is going on on
23 this site, a surf shop.
24 But, anyway, in one report they're telling
25 you that this is basically a single-family
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1 neighborhood. In a second report they're
2 telling you this is a highly commercialized
3 neighborhood. I'm not sure which it is. It's
4 an area that's in transition, though.
5 You have a Northside Vision Plan right here
6 (indicating). This was adopted by the council,
7 it was adopted by the LUZ Committee, it was
8 adopted by the Planning Commission. It was
9 based on citizen input.
10 In this plan, it's kind of a guideline for
11 the development of the Northside, and they're
12 calling for three-story buildings. And I'm
13 reading from page 5 of the Heckscher Island
14 River Center. They're calling for metal roofs,
15 shingle roofs, they're calling for a mixed-use
16 development of high density.
17 So what I'm telling you is that we meet the
18 Northside Vision Plan. That is not a criteria
19 for denial.
20 They're going to tell you eventually that
21 we're setting a precedent out here, but I would
22 like to submit a second handout to you that
23 we're not setting a precedent out here.
24 This is a list of five administrative
25 deviations that have been approved since the
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1 year 2000 for height variances out there ranging
2 from 35 feet to 46 feet, 35 feet to 42 feet,
3 35 feet to 42 feet, 35 feet to 45 feet, and
4 35 feet to 45 feet. These are basically the
5 riverfront homes or marshfront homes, which our
6 project should be compatible with by design.
7 We're not setting a precedent. The
8 precedent has already been set. But if you look
9 at this -- there's some pictures there of some
10 of the projects.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: If I can just -- for a
12 minute, Mr. Mann.
13 Steve, could you stop the clock just for
14 one second?
15 I just wanted to say we did get a card from
16 Mr. Herzberg, who's also in support. So I don't
17 know if we need to also allow him -- since
18 there's one minute left in that ten minutes that
19 Mr. Mann had, if we need to let Mr. Herzberg
20 speak, if that's what Mr. Mann wants to do or
21 how we need to go about it. I'm not sure.
22 So can you advise on that?
23 MS. ELLER: To the Chair and to the
24 committee, if Mr. Herzberg has submitted a
25 separate card, we typically will give him three
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1 minutes. And, again, we'll just keep track of
2 what each side is getting and make sure that
3 we're providing each side with equal time.
4 The quasi-judicial rules are a fairness
5 rule, so a firm time is not as important as just
6 making sure each side has their opportunity to
7 present and we balance that time accordingly.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I just wanted to make
9 sure so that in that ten minutes, if he wanted
10 to speak in support.
11 I'm sorry, Mr. Mann. Appreciate that.
12 MR. MANN: Okay. Before you start the
13 clock, let me get my deal together here. I'm
14 going to have to cut my presentation slightly
15 short.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: And you still -- according
17 to the clock, you have one minute and two
18 seconds.
19 MR. MANN: Well, I'll be ready to go in
20 just a second. I'm looking for a --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I think there was a handout
22 that you --
23 MR. MANN: No, sir. I'm looking for a note
24 that -- here we go.
25 I'm sorry, sir.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Steve, if you'll go ahead
2 and start it.
3 Thank you.
4 Go ahead, Mr. Mann. I'm sorry.
5 MR. MANN: The other thing that we know --
6 if you go back to the record of the Planning
7 Commission, the decision for denial was based
8 on -- and I'll read from the transcript of
9 that. This is one of the Commissioners
10 speaking: "With that, I would like to make a
11 motion to deny MM-2007-07 and support the report
12 made by the Planning Department to deny this,
13 and as a basis for that adopt the reasons as
14 competent and substantial evidence as to why
15 they denied this."
16 The sole basis for denial was based on the
17 Planning Department report, and I would like to
18 address that report. The first item I'd like to
19 address is item number 2, which is part of the
20 criteria for the approval of a minor
21 modification. We meet that.
22 Item number 3, they're saying that we're
23 altering the condition placed on the application
24 by the council. That is not true. The 35 feet
25 was in the application. There was never a
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1 condition placed on -- by the council. The
2 council placed two conditions on it. One was
3 that it be conditioned upon us receiving a State
4 permit for water and sewer. The second one was
5 a condition that the architectural -- the
6 buildings be similar to the -- what we handed
7 out earlier.
8 But going to item 1, which we totally
9 disagree with, they say the applicant requests
10 a -- request represents a change in the
11 characteristic of a previously-approved use.
12 That is not true.
13 We've got five buildings, ten units.
14 They're saying that we're in a predominantly
15 single-family area. We've got a handout that
16 will show that we're predominantly in a CCG-2
17 zoned area. We've got it to the north, we've
18 got it to the south, we've got it to the west,
19 we've got the river to the east.
20 In the CCG-2 zoning category, you can go to
21 60 feet by height. The owner of the property
22 immediately to the south of us can go to
23 60 feet. There are two other projects out
24 there. One is a 12-unit, 60-foot-tall condo.
25 The other one is a 60-foot-tall boat dry
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1 storage. In addition to that, you've got a
2 shipyard out there, a surf shop, restaurants and
3 commercial fishing.
4 They go on to tell you that we're in the
5 CHHA. We've introduced evidence previously that
6 we were not.
7 They're going to tell you that we're not on
8 City water and sewer, which we agree that we're
9 not.
10 They're going to reference FLUM issues that
11 deal with the coastal high hazard area. And
12 we've introduced proof previously that we're
13 not, that the council accepted and voted on to
14 accept as fact.
15 With that, I'll yield what time I've got
16 remaining to Mr. Herzberg.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And, actually, we --
18 I think we've got some more time on there too.
19 What was that total that we had?
20 MS. LAHMEUR: (Inaudible.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Say it again.
22 MS. LAHMEUR: (Inaudible.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: About 11 minutes.
24 So now we'll call the other speakers.
25 Ms. Eller.
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1 MR. MANN: Does Mr. Herzberg get --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, Mr. Herzberg. Okay.
3 Mr. Herzberg, if you would like to, and
4 then we have the three other speakers.
5 MR. HERZBERG: Mr. Chairman, if I may put
6 these on the overhead.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
8 MR. HERZBERG: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: If you'd just state your
10 name and address.
11 MR. HERZBERG: Yes, sir.
12 My name is Mike Herzberg. My address is
13 one Sleiman Parkway, Jacksonville, Florida
14 32216.
15 I thank you for the opportunity to discuss
16 this issue with you tonight and to point out
17 what I believe are some factual misstatements of
18 the Planning and Development Department's report
19 and really just to lend a little bit of clarity
20 to the original application.
21 I think as you can see by looking at the
22 map, as Mr. Mann had indicated earlier, but for
23 the subject property, the entire east side of
24 Heckscher Drive in this area is designated for
25 commercial activity. The commercial land use
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1 category and the corresponding CCG-2, the most
2 intensive zoning district in the city of
3 Jacksonville's zoning designation that exists
4 east of Heckscher Drive, consistent with our
5 property, would allow 60 feet as a matter of
6 right for any buildings built on any of those
7 properties.
8 There's a number of single-family
9 residential dwelling units immediately to our
10 south, of which no one has objected to our
11 project, either at the Planning Commission or
12 other meetings or lend any opposition in that
13 nature, and could immediately sell their
14 property and build a 60-foot-tall building
15 immediately adjacent to us.
16 That building could be taller than 60 feet
17 pursuant to the CCG-2 zoning, that -- if it was
18 applicable there, they could actually build to
19 an unlimited height where they increased the
20 required yard one foot for every increase in
21 additional setbacks. The problem is there
22 aren't any setbacks in the commercial districts,
23 so that building could be as close as our
24 property line and, again, potentially be an
25 unlimited height.
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1 I have another aerial that I'd like to
2 provide you with here that's -- just very, very
3 briefly, if I may.
4 This aerial actually depicts the subject
5 site and a building just to the north of us.
6 Approximately four or five parcels to the north
7 of us exists a shipyard. On that shipyard and
8 in the photograph, at the top of the photograph
9 is a building that is approximately 45 to
10 52 feet in height right now. That is only
11 288 feet away from our northern property line.
12 The individual that spoke in opposition to
13 our proposal actually would be no closer than
14 320 feet from any of our buildings. So we're
15 being -- we're actually closer to a taller
16 structure than any of those folks would be.
17 I just wanted to point out in relation to
18 the administrative deviations that Mr. Mann
19 spoke of, again, one of those was for 46 feet in
20 height, two were for 45, two were for 42 feet in
21 height, and all of those exist within 2,500 feet
22 of this subject property. Three of them are
23 within 1,700 feet.
24 By City standards, that's effectively
25 within a three-block radius you've got four of
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1 these -- three of these that were approved at
2 similar heights.
3 The opposition will allege things of a
4 nature saying that many of the deviations that
5 were granted were for chimneys and cupolas or
6 things of that nature. I can assure you they
7 were not. A deviation is not required under
8 your ordinance code for those. Appurtenances
9 normally placed above roof level are exempt from
10 the height requirement.
11 Substantially, we could take our project
12 and put an air-conditioning unit on top there at
13 a height of 60 feet and not be in violation of
14 the terms of the zoning code.
15 Effectively, what's being dealt with here,
16 if I may -- and I'll slowly close briefly. I
17 realize my time is coming to an end.
18 What I wanted to show is -- really, this is
19 what this is about. The diagram that you see
20 right there (indicating), the red light going
21 horizontal shows the actual wall height. The
22 red light going vertical shows the difference in
23 the height of the building due to the pitch of
24 the roof.
25 It's generally accepted within planning
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1 practices that higher pitched roofs go along
2 with more structurally-appealing, more
3 visually-appealing buildings. Mobile homes are
4 at a 4/12 pitch, 3/12 pitch. A Victorian-style
5 home would be a 6/12, 10/12, maybe even a 12/12
6 pitch.
7 What's really being argued over here is the
8 crosshatched portion on the top of the building
9 on the right there, at the very top. That's the
10 actual increase in height. This would not
11 create a look-down effect upon the adjacent
12 properties but, rather, would simply allow for
13 that roof to come to a normal apex, consistent
14 with the architectural style that was approved
15 in the elevation drawing that's attached to the
16 ordinance as a condition of the council.
17 Thank you very much.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: You're welcome. Thank you,
19 Mr. Herzberg.
20 Any questions from the committee for -- if
21 we're in the right posture, questions --
22 Chairman Corrigan.
23 MR. CORRIGAN: Through the Chair to
24 Mr. Herzberg, could you come back real quick
25 just so I don't lose the point.
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1 The area you're talking about, the peak up
2 there, is that occupancy -- human occupancy or
3 not?
4 MR. HERZBERG: No, sir.
5 Through the Chair, that would not be
6 occupiable. Again, all we're trying to do is
7 actually make that roof pitch go from this to
8 this (indicating) to achieve that height.
9 So, no, sir, there would be no occupancy
10 above the normal roof line of the drawings.
11 MR. CORRIGAN: Thank you.
12 MR. HERZBERG: Thank you, sir.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller, now, do we take
14 the total time and then for each of the three,
15 split it evenly among the three speakers that we
16 have?
17 MS. ELLER: Actually, I would just suggest
18 giving each of those speakers three minutes
19 because that will equal nine, and then you'll
20 give the Planning Department some time to
21 present from the Planning Commission's
22 perspective, and then that should balance out to
23 about the 13 or 14 minutes that I believe --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I think it's about
25 14 minutes is what we have.
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1 MS. ELLER: About 14. Yeah, that could
2 balance out with what the applicant had, and
3 that will comply with our procedural due process
4 requirements.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
6 All right. Our first speaker is Browne
7 Altman, followed by Nancy Altman, and then
8 Bobby Taylor if he's still here. I don't see
9 him, but if he's here.
10 Mr. Altman, then Ms. Altman.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Taylor left.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Just state your name and
14 then go ahead.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Browne Altman.
16 I live at 9759 Heckscher Drive, which is
17 directly across from this proposed development.
18 It's the height of conceit to me that you
19 buy a piece of property with a 35-foot height
20 limit, you -- quote, to try to conform with a
21 certain standard, then come back and say, "Oh,
22 our engineers can't make this ten feet shorter."
23 That's a floor.
24 We have a zoning. It has certain bounds on
25 it, setback lines, heights. If we are
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1 constantly going to be fiddling with it here and
2 there, why do we have the rule? We don't have a
3 rule. What we're going to have is we're going
4 to have chaos.
5 Now, they're talking about this
6 45-foot-tall building. According to the man who
7 built it, who still lives across the street from
8 it, that's 35 feet. I don't know how they
9 measured it, but that's how the man who built it
10 measured it.
11 The whole strip of land that they show
12 adjacent to the right side of their property,
13 there is a restaurant, there are four
14 single-family, one-story residences.
15 Going left from their property, there is a
16 Jim Walter-type home built on stilts. There's,
17 then, the boatyard with a 35-foot high -- not
18 48-foot high -- roof on it.
19 I just can't believe some of the things
20 that they're coming up with.
21 These are other buildings that have been
22 put in the area, so this is not setting a
23 precedent. Not one of them is on Batten
24 Island. They're a mile and a half up the road
25 on another island even. We're concerned with
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1 our immediate area.
2 If we do not want to see this home rule
3 mess come in, we've got to start following the
4 established rules. And I don't think anybody
5 else -- and I, myself, I do not want to see that
6 come in. But if we don't start following the
7 rules that we're supposed to be following,
8 that's exactly what's going to happen, I'm
9 afraid. And it's going to be terrible for
10 everybody.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Altman.
13 Ms. Altman.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
17 My name is Nancy Altman. I live at 9759
18 Heckscher Drive, Jacksonville, Florida 32226.
19 Bob Taylor had to leave. He was unable to
20 stay.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
22 MS. ALTMAN: Today I represent residents of
23 Batten Island, members of the Heckscher Drive
24 Community Club, and the friends of Heckscher
25 Drive who were unable to attend this meeting but
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1 sent you these signed petitions and letters for
2 the record.
3 We thank you for listening to our opposing
4 view of resolution 2007-919.
5 I have four points. On three separate
6 occasions -- March 1, '05; April 4, '06; and
7 June 6, '06 -- the developer presented their
8 plans to the Heckscher Drive Community Club. I
9 have the minutes on a tape -- I was the
10 secretary -- of one of the meetings where it
11 clearly states that in their verbal descriptions
12 and site renderings the five duplexes would not
13 exceed 35 feet.
14 Due to their misinformation, the Heckscher
15 Drive Community Club voted to not oppose the
16 plan. We did not oppose their plan. Now, after
17 all the permitting has been approved, they want
18 to change their plan.
19 My second point, when the Jacksonville
20 Planning Commission recommended approving the
21 initial application for rezoning, the
22 application was subject to five conditions. And
23 condition 2 stated, quote, The development shall
24 be subject to the original written description
25 dated March 28, 2006, unquote.
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1 Under design guidelines, it clearly states
2 that the maximum height of the structure is
3 35 feet.
4 Three, the style chosen conflicts with the
5 architectural ambience of the community. There
6 are no current residents or businesses on Batten
7 Island that are over 35 feet in height. Five
8 45-foot structures will not complement the
9 surrounding neighborhood. The boatyard my
10 husband already mentioned. We went to the
11 builder and he stated that his building was
12 35 feet.
13 At one Heckscher Drive Community Club
14 meeting the developer stated, quote, We took
15 pictures of the area so we can blend in with the
16 existing architecture, unquote.
17 Well, I took pictures of the homes and
18 businesses within the 350-foot radius of the
19 PUD, and the pictures are contained in this
20 booklet printed by a resident of Batten Island
21 and a business owner, which I submit for your
22 record.
23 This same booklet was given to you or your
24 assistant for review over a month ago. Inside
25 the booklet are pictures, copies of the signed
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1 petition and supporting letters.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Altman, if you could
3 just -- if you have one final thought, if you
4 could finish up.
5 Thank you.
6 MS. ALTMAN: On June 28, 2007, the
7 Jacksonville Planning Commission understood the
8 fallacy of approving another exemption to the
9 current allowed height of 35 feet. One member
10 of the Commission exasperatedly stated, "enough
11 is enough." The Planning Commission voted,
12 rightly so, to deny the modification.
13 We are not opposed to growth in our area,
14 but we favor controlled growth within the
15 established limits.
16 I was present at an LUZ meeting last month
17 when a neighbor/resident businessman willingly
18 changed his proposed retail structure from
19 45 feet -- I'm sorry -- 42 feet to 35 feet
20 because he knew the height was a concern in our
21 neighborhood.
22 The residents of Batten Island, members of
23 the Heckscher Drive Community Club, and friends
24 of Heckscher Drive hope that tonight this
25 committee will demonstrate their bold visionary
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1 leadership by upholding the 35-foot limit and
2 vote no to resolution 2007-919.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Altman.
4 Bobby Taylor, he's already gone?
5 MS. ALTMAN: Yes, he left.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Those are the
7 only speaker cards. I'll go now to the staff,
8 the Planning Department.
9 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
10 Through the Chair to committee members,
11 application for --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Let me close the
13 public hearing.
14 Sorry. Just make sure we're in the right
15 posture.
16 MR. MANN: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, for
17 interrupting you, but do I not get an
18 opportunity to rebut before or after -- is my
19 opportunity for rebuttal before or after the
20 Planning Department makes their presentation?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me check with Ms. Eller.
22 MS. ELLER: To the Chair, my suggestion
23 would be to leave the public hearing open.
24 This is a little different than our typical
25 scenario where we close the public hearing and
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1 then we go to the Planning Department for a
2 staff report because the Planning Department is
3 actually providing the position of the Planning
4 Commission, which is the subject matter of the
5 appeal. So they're actually serving as, in
6 essence, the opponent in this scenario. So they
7 would be --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The public hearing is back
9 open.
10 MS. ELLER: -- they'd be entering their --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Just to make sure we're in
12 the right posture.
13 MS. ELLER: Yes.
14 -- their position. And then, depending on
15 that time, you always permit the applicant a
16 moment for rebuttal.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So the department
18 first and then Mr. Mann or --
19 MS. ELLER: Yes.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll do that first.
21 MR. MANN: Thank you.
22 You just scared me when you were closing
23 the public hearing.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. I'm new to this
25 part.
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1 Mr. Kelly, I'm sorry to interrupt. Go
2 ahead, sir.
3 MR. KELLY: That's okay. Thank you.
4 Application for minor mod 2007-07 was
5 denied by the Planning Commission on June of
6 this previous year.
7 The modification was an amendment to the
8 previous zoning of the property -- or the zoning
9 on the property that was approved in January of
10 this same year, in January of 2007, and that's
11 ordinance 200-1288.
12 As Mr. Mann indicated, initially the
13 Planning Department was not in support of the
14 original PUD zoning on the property. There were
15 issues related to the coastal high hazard,
16 septic tanks, hurricane evacuation, the fact of
17 no water and sewer, and we felt that the density
18 of the subject property was an issue. So those
19 were the reasons for denial on the initial
20 rezoning of the property.
21 Additionally, there were other issues that
22 we denied it for, which were unrelated to the
23 coastal high hazard as well as the septic tank
24 issue. It was external compatibility,
25 specifically with the surrounding properties
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1 being single-family dwellings, although not
2 zoned necessarily single-family, there were
3 single-family dwellings that predominantly
4 surrounded the property.
5 So we felt that -- to the extent that the
6 rezoning was incompatible with the surrounding
7 area, we went forth and recommended denial.
8 The Planning Commission voted to approve
9 the original rezoning subject to the
10 stipulations and conditions which were
11 incorporated in the written description,
12 basically capping the height at 35 feet.
13 So when the application came back before
14 the department as a modification to the approved
15 PUD, again, we're kind of looking at all those
16 situations again. And in order to be
17 consistent, the department's recommendation was,
18 again, consistent with the initial
19 recommendation, which was to deny.
20 And in our modification -- in our
21 application, the staff does clearly state as far
22 as compatibility that this is really a change in
23 the characteristic of the use of the property.
24 Increasing the height from 35 feet to 45 feet in
25 this instance is completely out of character
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1 with a single-family development in the area.
2 It simply represents, really, a density and a
3 massing of building space basically on the
4 property at 45 feet high.
5 Having five buildings lined up in a row
6 would create this massing effect along Heckscher
7 Drive that -- it's a scenic corridor, in fact.
8 But we felt that that would significantly alter
9 the character of the area, and that is the
10 fundamental basis for a denial of the
11 modification. It has nothing to do with coastal
12 high hazard, nothing to do with septic tanks.
13 The modification simply for the height was
14 denied based upon compatibility and a change in
15 the -- a substantial change in the
16 characteristic of the use.
17 We presented this to the commission back in
18 June, and there were the speakers. The Altmans
19 were here and the applicant and Mr. Herzberg
20 were here and gave similar testimony that you
21 heard tonight. So I'm not going to go over that
22 again, but essentially what the commission did
23 find after going -- especially just to point out
24 that Commissioner Hardesty found it -- what he
25 said, he said, "I find it very disturbing that
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1 there is" -- well, about comparisons of similar
2 houses and properties.
3 And so he found it disturbing that they
4 would point out one of the properties, which was
5 a historical house, which was on a very large
6 lot, and that -- you know, that was basically a
7 higher property and consistent with that, and so
8 he found that to be an issue.
9 Additionally, he goes back in and he says
10 the real reason and the real opposition was
11 that -- you know, they agreed to this on the
12 front end when they got their zoning approved
13 back in January. Here they are six months later
14 again, and he says what is disturbing is this is
15 a PUD that is being chipped away. This is part
16 of what we have complained about time and time
17 again on the commission, about -- when you come
18 in and you put a project together and you start
19 chipping away at the details of it.
20 This is certainly one of them. It's a case
21 in point. That is, again, based upon the staff
22 report and the recommendation -- they made the
23 recommendation based upon the staff report and
24 the evidence and the testimony that was
25 presented to them on that day. And they
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1 decided, again, to deny the request for a minor
2 modification and be consistent with the staff
3 recommendation.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
5 Now back to Mr. Mann and Ms. Eller.
6 Mr. Mann, if you'll come back up.
7 MR. MANN: (Complies.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: How much time, Ms. Eller,
9 for Mr. Mann, then?
10 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So then about a
12 minute or so.
13 MR. MANN: How much time do I have, sir?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller.
15 MS. ELLER: You can give him about a
16 minute, one or two minutes just to rebut since
17 the opposition did not use as much time as the
18 applicant initially.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: About a minute and a half.
20 Will that be okay?
21 MR. MANN: Then I'll talk very fast.
22 Again, like I said, I've got to get the
23 information in for the record.
24 And, Diane, if I go too fast, let me know
25 and I'll try to slow down and try to make
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1 everybody happy.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
3 MR. MANN: Again, while I deeply respect
4 Mr. Kelly's opinion as far as zoning and land
5 use and planning, I do not feel like the
6 information that you've been given is absolutely
7 correct.
8 You've got three criteria for approval of a
9 minor modification. They're reading -- and I've
10 got a handout for you. They're highlights in
11 bold print, that there is no change in the
12 approved land use. We're not asking for a
13 change in the approved land use. It's going to
14 be five buildings, ten units, five duplexes.
15 The land use is not changing.
16 "Including the amount and general location
17 thereof." We're not changing the location. The
18 site plan has not changed. We handed out a
19 second copy of that tonight.
20 There's no increase in the number of
21 dwelling units. We're not looking for an
22 increase in the number of dwelling units or the
23 amount of the nonresidential floor area. We're
24 not increasing the floor area. The only thing
25 we're asking to do is increase the volume of the
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1 ceiling.
2 "Or any other associated characteristic of
3 use." Use is a form of function. The function
4 of this property is attached single-family
5 residences. The height of the roof is an
6 architectural feature; it's not a characteristic
7 of the property. It is a characteristic of the
8 Northside Vision Plan, which we're trying to
9 meet.
10 Most people do not engineer a project until
11 they've got their zoning in place. It's not
12 uncommon. As a matter of fact, it's probably
13 done more up here than anything else.
14 Why spend the money for thousands of
15 dollars on engineering until you know whether
16 you've got your zoning? It wasn't until we
17 actually engineered the project that we found to
18 get the pitch of the roof that we wanted, that
19 we could not -- that we had to seek this
20 variance. There was never a deal made that if
21 you support our application, we will do this.
22 The Club voted to not take a stance,
23 period. They later voted to recommend denial.
24 We had no deal, no understanding with them.
25 This is what we proposed we could do.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
2 MR. MANN: The second thing is driveways or
3 streets. The Planning Department said that we
4 met that criteria.
5 And, thirdly, they say that there's a
6 change in the condition of the council. To
7 change a condition --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Your time has expired. If
9 you could finish that last sentence.
10 MR. MANN: To change the condition of the
11 council, it has to be a PUD to PUD, a rezoning
12 to rezoning. If the Planning Department truly
13 believed that we were changing a condition of
14 the council, when we met with them, they should
15 have told us we should do a PUD rezoning instead
16 of doing a minor modifications. They should
17 never have accepted our application for a minor
18 modification, they should have never accepted
19 our payment for a minor modification, nor
20 processed it as a minor modification, or had a
21 hearing before the Planning Commission for a
22 minor modification. It should have come to you.
23 So at one time, obviously, they thought
24 this was sufficient for a minor modification.
25 The planning staff has given you a very
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1 weak report. They've referenced this to be a
2 single-family area, which we've handed out --
3 showing you that there's commercial up and down
4 it.
5 Ms. Altman referenced that there is no
6 45-foot-tall buildings there. There are 60-foot
7 buildings coming, and you can build a 60-foot
8 building in any of the CCG-2 properties, north,
9 south, or west of the site.
10 We ask you to give my client relief on
11 this. Let us do a good project that is going to
12 be architecturally pleasing and blend in with
13 what's coming as far as the Northside Vision
14 Plan recommends for this site.
15 Again, thank you very much for your time.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 All right. Can we come back into committee
18 now, Ms. Eller?
19 MS. ELLER: Yes.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: So I'll close the public
21 hearing.
22 Mr. Holt, go ahead.
23 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24 I just had one question for the Planning
25 Department. Have we recently had any
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1 applications in the Batten Island area for
2 someone to go beyond 35 feet in height that was
3 denied?
4 MR. CROFTS: Yes, we have, through the
5 Chair.
6 MR. HOLT: Could you tell us about that?
7 MR. CROFTS: Within the last three months
8 there was a proposed use across Heckscher Drive
9 that came before this body, the Planning
10 Department, and I believe it was for a
11 commercial proposal. The applicant was a
12 Genesis planner, a representative from that
13 organization. And we maintained our limitation
14 to 35 feet for that use, and they agreed to it,
15 and that project was approved with that height
16 limit.
17 MR. HOLT: Okay. I just wanted to know
18 because we may have to send an apology letter to
19 those folks if we start changing our mind,
20 because they complied happily.
21 I was going to ask for support for me, but
22 tonight that seems like a bad tactic, so I would
23 ask for support for the Planning Department, the
24 Planning Commission, and for the residents to
25 deny this minor mod.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Holt.
3 Mr. Corrigan.
4 MR. CORRIGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 Through the Chair back to Mr. Crofts. To
6 kind of follow up on Councilmember Holt's
7 question, if we approve the minor modification
8 on this one, then are we expected -- or most
9 likely have to approve a minor modification on
10 the other one when it comes back or what are you
11 really saying?
12 (Mr. Holt exits the proceedings.)
13 MR. CROFTS: Through the Chair, all I'm
14 saying is that we, as a department, and this
15 council has gone on record as approving
16 development in that particular location to that
17 particular standard.
18 And I would defer -- as far as the
19 implications of that -- you know, that standard,
20 that would obviously create a degree of
21 vulnerability for this body, the City Council,
22 and our future efforts in that area.
23 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. Thank you.
24 The other question I have, I asked
25 Mr. Herzberg earlier, the unoccupied portions of
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1 the building that are going to make up this
2 additional footage that they say they need --
3 I've done a rezoning on the waterfront in my
4 district, that we set a height that we thought
5 was the peak of the roof, and then we came to
6 find out later that height was the eave once it
7 got to the Building and Zoning Department. How
8 do we protect that in a case like this? I
9 mean, how do we -- how do we make sure what
10 Mr. Herzberg said happens?
11 MR. KELLY: Under the current zoning, under
12 the existing zoning, it's measured -- building
13 height is measured to the peak of the roof. And
14 in a written description, unless it's otherwise
15 specified that it's going to be measured to the
16 eave or measured to -- as in that case, it was,
17 I guess, an elevation based on an elevation of
18 the road out front, and then as the property
19 sloped down, they were still measuring from the
20 road.
21 But those will be specifically laid out
22 within a site-specific PUD, that that's how the
23 height will be measured in this instance.
24 In this instance, it was maximum height
25 based on the building height definition in our
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1 zoning code, which is to the peak of the roof.
2 MR. CORRIGAN: From what?
3 MR. KELLY: From the base of the front,
4 basically pre or -- pregrade construction or --
5 there's no -- basically, right now it's from the
6 middle of the front door at the entrance to the
7 house up to the peak of the roof.
8 So if they've got -- unfortunately, right
9 now in our code, they are penalized for finished
10 floor elevation. That is deducted against
11 them. So if they have to elevate the house six
12 feet or seven feet to have a habitable first
13 floor, that is deducted against really the
14 35 feet.
15 So you're looking at a situation where, if
16 there was no flood zone elevation requirement or
17 base flood elevation for them to build up to, to
18 have a habitable floor, then you would be
19 basically -- it's almost like a taking of six or
20 seven feet. We plan on addressing that in the
21 rewrite of the zoning code when we get to our
22 definition section. I'll get into that a little
23 later also.
24 MR. CORRIGAN: Well, in the schematic that
25 Mr. Mann passed out, I see where they're using
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1 what we'd normally call the first floor as a
2 garage or basement area. So that's where
3 they're using up that coastal high hazard area
4 as per the drawing that's here --
5 Okay. That it's for now. Thanks.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any other
7 councilmembers wish to ask a question?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Mann, if I could -- if
10 you could come up for just a minute.
11 MR. MANN: (Complies.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I've heard arguments that
13 are good on both sides. Is there any way that
14 we could offer a compromise here?
15 I mean, could we take it down -- they want
16 it to be kept at 35. You say 45. Can we take
17 it down to 40 feet? Would that suffice?
18 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, I don't think I
19 can do 40 feet. I can do 42. It would be the
20 minimum that I can cut it down to. I can cut
21 three feet off the top of the roof line. It's
22 not going to give us quite as dramatic a roof
23 line as we originally wanted, but 42 would be
24 the minimum that we can come -- we could do, and
25 that allows for no errors in engineering.
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1 Do I have an opportunity to rebut something
2 that Mr. Crofts said? As much as I respect his
3 opinion, I think --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me ask Ms. Eller if
5 that's appropriate at this point.
6 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
8 MS. ELLER: It's your discretion.
9 MR. MANN: I'm sorry. I didn't understand
10 her comment.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: She said -- let me let
12 Mr. Corrigan ask and then --
13 MR. CORRIGAN: Mr. Mann, did you agree with
14 what Mr. Crofts said a few minutes ago?
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Now you can ask -- now go ahead.
17 MR. MANN: No, sir, I did not.
18 And, again, I have the utmost respect for
19 Mr. Crofts' opinion, but I think what he failed
20 to tell you was -- as I understood it, the
21 Genesis project was across the street. It was
22 not on the river side in the CCG-2. The CCG-2
23 zoning allows you to go to 60 feet by right.
24 The people contiguous to our property to
25 the south can go to 60 feet today without ever
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1 appearing before you. There are two projects
2 that are approved up there. One is a
3 multifamily project that's approved for
4 60 feet.
5 And Mr. Crofts is kind of like me. He's
6 probably gotten old and senile and has these
7 senior moments and didn't remember it, but it's
8 a 60-foot, 12-unit condo project. And the other
9 one is a project that does not have to appear
10 before you. It is a 60-foot-tall dry stack.
11 And those are both on the river side in a
12 CCG-2.
13 MR. CORRIGAN: Well, two things. One, I
14 don't agree with the comment you just made on
15 Mr. Crofts and don't appreciate that.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: He may want to rebut that.
17 MR. MANN: That was said solely in jest,
18 sir. I respect Mr. Crofts.
19 MR. CORRIGAN: It's still on the record, so
20 I don't like it.
21 MR. MANN: Then I apologize, sir.
22 MR. CORRIGAN: And, secondly, in CCG-2, a
23 dry stack, you can do that in a lot of places in
24 CCG-2, but you have to deal with setbacks. And
25 a dry stack kind of helps you out with not
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1 dealing with the setback. But if you're trying
2 to put residential there, you'd have to deal
3 with the setbacks.
4 MR. MANN: Mr. Corrigan, I don't believe in
5 the CCG-2 you have setbacks that are required,
6 unless you're butting up against a residential
7 property.
8 MR. CORRIGAN: Or building a residential
9 property. You can't build a residential
10 property in CCG-2, can you?
11 MR. MANN: Well, yes, sir, you can. That's
12 going to be the next application I've got up
13 tonight.
14 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. I just -- to the
15 committee, I have concerns about this because of
16 my personal experience with the same situation
17 that was described by the Planning Department
18 where we did the PUD and it keeps increasing in
19 size.
20 As a matter of fact, I hear -- I saw
21 yesterday a sign where they're going up again in
22 height. We originally capped it at 52 and now
23 they're going to 89. So I have concerns about
24 the changes that we do in these.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Corrigan.
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1 So we can't take it to 40, then?
2 MR. MANN: No, sir, I can't do 40. I'll do
3 42. We'll have to -- it will have to be a tight
4 engineering schedule, but I can make my client
5 live with 42 if the committee can see its way to
6 doing that.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
8 MR. MANN: As a compromise.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll entertain an amendment
10 that we -- that it be from 35 to 42 as opposed
11 to 45.
12 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion --
14 Was that a motion, Ms. Lee?
15 MS. LEE: Definitely.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there a second?
17 MR. SHAD: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Motion and second.
19 Discussion on that?
20 This is part of the amendment, Ms. Eller;
21 is that correct?
22 MS. ELLER: So the amendment, as I
23 understand it -- the motion from Councilmember
24 Lee is to grant the appeal subject to the
25 condition that the height would be limited to
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1 42 feet, and that would be the amendment to the
2 bill.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee, do you agree?
4 MS. LEE: Yes.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Shad?
6 MR. SHAD: Yes.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Corrigan, you had
8 discussion.
9 MR. CORRIGAN: I guess through the Chair to
10 Councilmember Lee, your friendly amendment, that
11 is to the peak of the roof, the maximum peak of
12 the roof of the building?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee.
14 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
15 MR. CORRIGAN: I just wanted to clarify
16 that was to the maximum peak of the roof,
17 excluding chimneys or -- excluding chimneys or
18 antennas.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: That is correct.
20 MR. CORRIGAN: "Cupola" is not a word I
21 want to put in there. I do not support a
22 cupola.
23 MR. MANN: We will not do a cupola, sir,
24 through the Chair, if I may, sir.
25 MR. CORRIGAN: My question was, did your
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1 amendment include that it was the peak of the
2 roof with the exception of chimneys or
3 antennas?
4 MS. LEE: Is that what you wanted?
5 MR. CORRIGAN: That is exactly what I
6 thought you said.
7 MS. LEE: Yes.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Lee.
9 Ms. Lee concurs. Is that -- are we in
10 agreement, Mr. Mann?
11 MR. MANN: We can live with that, sir.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any further
13 discussion on the amendment?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: And that's the amendment to
16 incorporate that language.
17 All in favor say aye.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And now to be in the
20 right posture, Ms. Eller, we'll entertain a
21 motion to approve -- to grant as amended or that
22 is the amendment?
23 MS. ELLER: The amendment now incorporates
24 language into the bill that grants the appeal,
25 subject to the condition that it is 42 feet
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1 measured to the peak of the roof.
2 You've passed the amendment by the
3 requisite number of committee members.
4 Now, if it's the committee's pleasure, if
5 someone would move the bill as amended, and then
6 the vote would determine whether it's voted out
7 of committee.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Eller.
9 I'll entertain a motion.
10 Is there a motion?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there a motion? If not,
13 we'll have to -- we'll have to defer.
14 MS. LEE: Move the bill as amended.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee has moved it. Is
16 there a second?
17 MR. SHAD: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Discussion on
19 the -- on moving to grant the appeal as amended.
20 Any discussion?
21 Mr. Corrigan.
22 MR. CORRIGAN: I respect the applicant, I
23 respect Mr. Mann. I just have concerns when the
24 Planning Department, Planning Commission, and
25 the District Councilperson all are against it.
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1 You know, if it smells like, looks like, and
2 tastes like a rat, then it might be rat.
3 And that's not negative on your project. I
4 know that's on the record, and I hate to say
5 something bad on the record.
6 MR. MANN: Well, if you'll accept my
7 apology for Mr. Crofts --
8 MR. CORRIGAN: I totally accept your
9 apology. I just -- I have a concern when -- I
10 typically don't go against all three of them
11 when they're in the same position.
12 MR. MANN: But, again, it's the criteria
13 that you've got to apply to this. It's not a
14 motion. You've got the three criteria that
15 you've got to apply to a minor modification to
16 decide whether it should be granted or not.
17 MR. CORRIGAN: Well, I'm looking at this as
18 a change in the condition. One of the previous
19 conditions was 35 feet, and now we're asking for
20 45 feet, so that's a change in condition.
21 MR. MANN: That was not a condition that
22 was set on by the council. That was a condition
23 that was set on by the developer, and that's
24 subject to change. If we say that we can't
25 change -- ever change a zoning in Jacksonville,
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1 then --
2 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. I understand.
3 MR. MANN: Zonings are changed all day
4 long.
5 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. I understand. Thank
6 you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
10 Mr. Shad, did you have something?
11 Hand on a second.
12 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
13 I just wanted to note that I moved or
14 seconded that amendment, however it worked, so
15 we could actually take a vote on this tonight.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
17 MR. SHAD: This was more of an
18 administrative second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
20 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes nay.)
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1 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. SHAD: (Votes nay.)
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 MS. LAHMEUR: Two yeas, two nays.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, it is
7 deferred, 2007-919.
8 Do we need to reopen the public hearing
9 Ms. Eller?
10 MS. ELLER: I suggest that you do. So that
11 way, when you have a larger committee, you can
12 entertain an additional opportunity for evidence
13 to be placed on the record so those committee
14 members can make a vote at that time.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I will go ahead and
16 reopen the public hearing on 2007-919, and it
17 will be deferred.
18 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, when will it be
19 heard again, please?
20 MS. ELLER: It's my suggestion that you
21 continue it to a date certain. Given the
22 upcoming schedule, it may be a good thing to ask
23 the applicant if they're -- if they want to hear
24 it on November 20th. That's a big meeting. It
25 will be a long meeting.
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1 December 4th is available. That one does
2 not appear to be as long. But it's up to the
3 chairman, if you want to continue it one cycle,
4 and we'll get together with the applicant on a
5 date, or if you want to just say that it will be
6 heard on the 20th.
7 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, I think due to --
8 just to the time restraints you're going to have
9 on your 20th meeting, we would be willing to go
10 on the 4th.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll continue, then,
12 to December 4th, Ms. Eller.
13 MS. ELLER: Correct.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Mann.
15 MR. MANN: Thank you very much.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Members, I believe
17 that takes us back. We don't have any other
18 visiting councilmembers. We'll go back to
19 page 2 and begin our agenda.
20 Item number 1, 2005-718, is deferred.
21 Item 2, 2005-1161, is deferred.
22 Item 3, 2005-1228, is deferred.
23 Over to page 3, 2005-1339, we will open the
24 public hearing.
25 Are there any speakers, Mr. Corrigan?
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: No.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: On 2005-1399. I'm sorry. I
3 think I said -1339.
4 No speakers. So that public hearing will
5 be continued to December 4th, 2007, and no
6 further action at this time.
7 Item number 5, 2006-24, is deferred.
8 Item 6 is deferred, 2006-220.
9 Item 7, 2006-360, is also deferred.
10 Over to Page 4. 2006-520 is deferred,
11 2006-658 is deferred.
12 2006-869, we'll entertain a motion to
13 withdraw.
14 MR. CORRIGAN: So moved.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there second?
16 MR. SHAD: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to
18 withdraw 2006-869.
19 Any discussion?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
22 ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
25 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
3 (Committee ballot closed.)
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
6 withdrawn 2006-869.
7 Item 11, 2007-144, is deferred.
8 Top of page 5. 2007-145 is deferred, along
9 with 2007-384, 2007-566, and 2007-578. Those
10 are all deferred this evening.
11 Top of page 6, committee. 2007-581, and
12 then -659, -803, and -835 are all deferred.
13 Top of page 7. 2007-845 is deferred.
14 We've already acted on -919.
15 2007-928, we will open the public hearing,
16 and I believe we have several speakers.
17 I will call you up. I'll call two at a
18 time. If you can just make your way to the
19 front when I call you.
20 First we have Ms. Dianne Wiles, and second
21 will be Ed Barnard. If you'll begin to make
22 your way down, and you'll have three minutes.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And before Ms. Wiles
25 starts, I will just let everyone know that this
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1 public hearing is opened and continued to
2 December 4th. There will be no official action
3 on it tonight. But the public hearing is open,
4 so feel free to speak on it if you filled out a
5 blue card.
6 And, Ms. Wiles, if you'd just state your
7 name and address for the record.
8 Go ahead.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon. Thank
10 you.
11 My name is Dianne Wiles, and I have lived
12 at 10663 Hemming Road for approximately eight
13 years.
14 I would like to speak to you today about
15 the history of this parcel and the effects that
16 this development could have on our established
17 community.
18 I have a handout for the committee and for
19 the file on record. Included in the handout on
20 the last page is a map showing the close
21 proximity of the runway and the residential
22 neighborhoods that surround the proposed PUD
23 parcel.
24 The public record stated, between the years
25 of 1991 and 2001, that -- I quote, JPA buffer
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1 zone for aircraft flyover at Craig Airport
2 [sic].
3 The record cards are also included in my
4 handout.
5 Many of the people in this neighborhood
6 bought their homes knowing that Craig Airport
7 could not extend the runway and that the parcel
8 of land on the corner was a noise buffer and
9 would not be developed.
10 In 2002, this buffer zone statement fell
11 off the public records. In 2002, JAA started
12 pursuing development of this land once again.
13 We have had many town meetings over the
14 years. We have rejected any development on this
15 property due to the safety hazard and increased
16 noise issue with Craig Airport.
17 This land has caught a plane in May of
18 1996. The plane went down due to pilot and
19 mechanical error. It landed in the back of
20 Maria Miller's house on High Ridge Road. If
21 these trees were not in place, the results of
22 this could have been fatal. The trees saved the
23 neighbors' and pilot's lives. I can't imagine
24 what would have happened if the plane went into
25 a drugstore or a bank.
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1 In 2002, Mr. John Clark from JAA came to
2 our homes and visited with a few of the
3 residents in the Holly Oaks neighborhood. He
4 sat with my husband, myself, and the Dirks
5 (phonetic) family next door to me. He walked
6 with us in our yards and agreed that developing
7 this land would be too intense for this
8 neighborhood since it was at the end of the
9 runway.
10 He also visited neighbors on High Ridge
11 Road at the Barnards' residence. He held
12 Mrs. Barnard's hand and promised JAA would stop
13 its efforts to develop this noise safety
14 buffer. Yet another promise to the community
15 broken.
16 In the past, we have heard at town meetings
17 proposals from JAA like, let us develop the
18 corner and we will not extend the runway.
19 According to the Times Union article on
20 October 23rd, also attached with my handout, he
21 is already planning on breaking the conservation
22 easement promise of this proposal.
23 The JAA board has concerns since five acres
24 of this land is to be put into a conservation
25 easement. This will drop the lease price
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1 significantly. Board member Jack Dimitri said
2 that JAA is taking too much of a haircut on all
3 of this and it's all falling on JAA's back. One
4 way out of the dilemma, executive director John
5 Clark said, was to revisit the permanent
6 easement later.
7 I've been told by the Jacksonville Planning
8 and Development Department that there's nothing
9 stopping JAA or a developer from applying to
10 change the conservation easement later. The
11 Planning Commission said this type of thing
12 happens all the time as well.
13 We do not trust this conservation
14 easement. This PUD application is for the
15 entire ten-plus acres. We reject the statements
16 from the agent that this is zoning by right.
17 This land already has CRO/RPI zoning and they
18 can take every tree down they want to.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Wiles, your time has
20 expired.
21 MS. WILES: Can I finish one more
22 statement, please?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: One sentence.
24 MS. WILES: One sentence.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And then we've got --
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1 MS. WILES: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: -- your time is up.
3 MS. WILES: One sentence.
4 I just want to say that, you know, this is
5 such a small gain for JAA and a detrimental loss
6 to our community.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 MS. WILES: Thank you for your time. I
9 appreciate it.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for submitting
11 your written comments as well.
12 Mr. Barnard, followed by Nooney Ritacco.
13 And I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name. And
14 then Mr. Ritacco will be followed by
15 Dale Parsons.
16 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Barnard, good evening.
18 If you'll state your name and address for
19 the record, please.
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Ed Barnard, 10861
21 High Ridge Road, 32225.
22 I'm presenting a list of various plan
23 policies and zoning codes that we ask you to
24 consider with this matter. The attorneys have
25 stated that they just want you to approve the
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1 zoning, and then they'll worry about the zoning
2 code, the building code, the FAA regulations and
3 all of that.
4 I want to talk about buffer zones. Since
5 1970, we've been fighting this thing several
6 different times. And each time it comes up,
7 we've had this pattern of deception and broken
8 promises from JAA.
9 Jeffrey Clements did some research on the
10 plats for the area and found -- and I quote,
11 JPA buffer zone for aircraft flyover has been
12 designated for this area.
13 And the handout I just gave you, there's a
14 copy of his letter and also a copy of a plat.
15 FAA-150, land use compatibility and
16 airports, says that, by making certain that the
17 appropriate performance standards such as
18 controlling the siting of houses relative to the
19 noise contour overlays or requiring buffers and
20 open spaces are provided and recorded on final
21 subdivision plats. That was recorded on a plat.
22 The Craig Airport approved 150 study says
23 that the then-shown 65 DNL contour located
24 primarily on airport property -- that's this
25 particular piece of property they're talking
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1 about.
2 It also says FAA, as a matter of policy,
3 encourages local efforts to prevent new
4 noncompatible development immediately abutting
5 the 65 DNL and to provide a buffer for possible
6 growth and noise contours.
7 The City of Jacksonville 2010 Comprehensive
8 Plan says that, similarly, the City shall adopt
9 and implement land development regulations that
10 provide for noise buffers between rail and air
11 facilities and other noise.
12 The City of Jacksonville airport zoning
13 code states that there must be an airport notice
14 zone acknowledgment issued on a PUD that's going
15 to fall within the noise zones.
16 It also says that the Planning and
17 Development Department is responsible for
18 reviewing these as height and hazard zones,
19 runway safety zones, runway protection zones,
20 accident potential zones.
21 FAA 150 impact zones are shown on another
22 chart that I've given to you. And based on
23 that, nothing can be built on the first 500 feet
24 of that property measured on Monument Road
25 higher than zero inches.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Barnard, your time has
2 expired.
3 MR. BARNARD: Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Appreciate you
5 coming down.
6 Mr. Ritacco, followed by Dale Parsons, to
7 be followed by Mr. Ed Carter.
8 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening. If you'd just
10 state your name and address for the record,
11 please.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Nooney
13 Ritacco, and I live at 10663 Hemming Road.
14 I'm here in opposition to the PUD zoning
15 application 2007-928.
16 I am here to give the LUZ Committee a
17 visual of the intensity of this proposed
18 development. These photos will show how close
19 this property is nestled into a residential
20 community. I'd like to put up 5 -- A, if I
21 can.
22 This is a view of --
23 THE CHAIRMAN: We can see it, Mr. Ritacco.
24 MR. RITACCO: You can see it?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
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1 MR. RITACCO: This is a view of two
2 residential homes on Hemming Road. The house on
3 the right is less than 100 feet away from this
4 proposed development. The resident's property
5 line is even closer.
6 Photo B. This is a close-up view of the
7 proposed development. This wouldn't take much
8 effort to make this entire land a conservation
9 area and buffer zone for the surrounding
10 community. There is already a parking lot fence
11 on the northeast corner of this property. This
12 is an old JEA easement. This could be used as a
13 trail head and the parking lot for the trails,
14 something everybody can use in the area to
15 enjoy. This would create a dual purpose for the
16 land instead of yet another CVS corner pharmacy.
17 And then photo C shows a view of what could
18 be. And I understand this isn't to scale, but
19 it's close and it's too close to residential
20 homes.
21 This is just a visual of what the view from
22 residential homes will be.
23 Let's make this land CSV, not CVS.
24 Thank you for your time.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ritacco.
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1 I have Dale Parsons, followed by Ed Carter,
2 to be followed by Ms. Barbara Leis.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
6 State your name and address --
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Dale Parsons,
8 and my address, 11179 Oak Ridge Drive South --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- Jacksonville, Florida
11 32225.
12 I urge you to oppose ordinance 2007-98 --
13 or -928, and ask that you consider this
14 question: Is the proposed zoning district
15 consistent with the 2007 comprehensive plan?
16 No. This amounts to spot zoning. This is
17 currently RPI land use. This PUD is proposed to
18 intensify the land use to neighborhood
19 commercial.
20 The 2010 comp plan neighborhoods commercial
21 land defines -- definitions states, such centers
22 will be anchored by food or drugstores and will
23 contain four ten [sic] other supporting retail
24 and office uses. New neighborhood commercial
25 uses shall not be allowed as secondary uses in
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1 existing single-family residential neighborhoods
2 when such uses would constitute intrusion.
3 If you don't call this intrusion, I don't
4 know what it is.
5 This property is set back into a
6 predominantly residential neighborhood. There
7 are only two retail uses being proposed for this
8 PUD, one of which is a possible 24-hour CVS
9 pharmacy, the other is proposed to be a bank.
10 This is a bank -- or a blank check for the
11 development -- to intensified [sic] the land
12 use and zoning of this property and put whatever
13 he -- he wants on the property.
14 Future land use elements, section 117,
15 gradually [sic] transitions of densities and
16 intensities between land use in conformance with
17 the provisions of this element shall be achieved
18 through zoning and development review process.
19 I do not feel that -- as -- I do not feel
20 that a little over 100 feet away from the
21 established residential homes is a gradual
22 transition of density and intensities. Most of
23 the west, north and all of the east side of this
24 parcel of land is low density residential. The
25 entire south side of this property runs along
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1 Monument Road, Mill Cove Golf Club, which was
2 another noise buffer removed to create revenue
3 for JAA and Craig Airport.
4 This PUD will be a nuisance to this
5 community with excessive traffic, light, close
6 proximity of dumpsters, rodents that come with
7 them, and the possibility of a 24-hour
8 pharmacy.
9 This development does not serve a need of
10 this community. We have many pharmacies and
11 banks to choose from within a two-mile radius.
12 Large vacancies in Winn-Dixie shopping
13 place in the southwest corner, adjacent to this
14 property on the northwest corner sits as a
15 deserted gas station that has sat vacant --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Parsons.
17 MR. PARSONS: -- and has been an eyesore
18 for years.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Parsons, sorry to
20 interrupt. Your time has expired.
21 MR. PARSONS: Well, I had one more --
22 you've already got a copy.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir. Thank you for
24 submitting that for us.
25 MR. PARSONS: Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Mr. Ed Carter, to be followed by
3 Ms. Barbara Leis, to be followed by Ms. Cathy
4 Whatley.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. Thank you.
8 I have a handout here.
9 The members of the Greater Arlington Civic
10 Council, GACC, recommend denial of the PUD
11 zoning at the corner of St. Johns and Monument
12 Road and adjacent to Craig Airport for the
13 following reasons:
14 The JAA [sic] primary responsibility is to
15 maintain a safe airport that is compatible with
16 the surrounding community. The subject JAA
17 property should be maintained as a wooded buffer
18 between the airport and adjacent residential
19 property.
20 The requested land use are too intensive
21 for the surrounding residential neighborhood and
22 amounts to spot zoning. The proposed PUD land
23 use are inconsistent with the JPDD St. Johns
24 Bluff Corridor Study, which recommends that --
25 only CRO zoning north of Atlantic Boulevard.
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1 There are also -- there also should be a gradual
2 transition from residential to commercial land
3 use.
4 The Wonderwood Corridor Study prepared by
5 the JPDD in April of '02 studied the amount of
6 existing commercial land use in the subject
7 area. The JPD's conclusion was that nearly 700
8 acres of built and unbuilt existing commercial
9 lands use was sufficient. The report stated
10 that the area has a potential to become
11 overserved by commercial acreage without
12 experiencing any change to the existing land use
13 as designated.
14 Too much acreage designated as commercial
15 has a potential -- has a potential to result in
16 underutilization of commercial sites which may
17 undermine their value.
18 Further, it may affect the balance of the
19 neighborhoods area that are perceived as an
20 exclus- -- excessive commercials, because --
21 become less desirable as residential neighbors
22 and experience the impact of increased traffic
23 and noise that will come to the commercial
24 location.
25 On your handout you have some tables
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1 there. Table 1 on the documented [sic]
2 tabulates that -- all the land use within the
3 study. The study area includes six census
4 tracts from the Intracoastal Waterway on the
5 east, Atlantic Boulevard on the south, 9A on the
6 west, and the St. Johns River on the north.
7 Recommendation for additional commercial
8 land use is [sic] in the location is contrary to
9 the JPDD's recommendation. The proposed
10 commercial use would intensify vehicle traffic,
11 congestion, would create noise, and would -- of
12 all hours of the day and night and would result
13 in the -- is that it?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Carter, yes, sir. Your
15 time has expired.
16 MR. CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 We have your written comments. Thank you.
19 Ms. Leis, followed by Ms. Cathy Whatley,
20 followed by Dan Boylston.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Just state your name and
25 address.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Barbara Leis. I
2 reside at 10640 Beverly Nalle Road,
3 Jacksonville, Florida 32225.
4 I'm here to ask you to deny the PUD
5 rezoning at Craig Airfield.
6 The community does not want -- I've lived
7 there -- my family and I have lived there for
8 38 years.
9 Our community does not want or need a
10 CVS -- 24-hour CVS or a bank at that corner.
11 In order for this rezoning to pass, the
12 ordinance states that the proposed -- the
13 proposed rezoning -- and I quote, will not
14 adversely affect the health and safety of
15 residents in the area, end quote.
16 Well, if those trees are taken down, it
17 will most definitely have an adverse effect on
18 our community. This land is and always has been
19 a -- designed for a safety and a noise buffer
20 for our community. Even JAA's own master plan
21 has it designated as an airport safety and noise
22 buffer, although they have made it sure not to
23 leave any trail of it -- of that fact, since
24 2001. Records, deeds, and other documentation
25 has just mysteriously started disappearing.
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1 In the City's 2010 comp plan, it states --
2 in sections 11.2.6 and 11.2.7 of the
3 transportation element, it states that the City
4 will not only deny incompatible development of
5 airport noise and accident potential zones, but
6 that it will support policies that regulate
7 these zones.
8 Since this property is in noise zones 2 and
9 3, I'm not even sure why we're even discussing
10 rezoning.
11 Those trees are the only wooded buffer
12 between us and the airport -- and the airport
13 and the adjacent properties -- residential
14 properties.
15 The property that we're talking about --
16 that's red, isn't it? No, it's orange.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: You have --
18 MS. LEIS: The property is surrounded on
19 three sides by the LDR, single-family zoning, so
20 this is a totally residential area, and our
21 homes are in the direct landing and takeoff
22 flight path.
23 Why is the removal of the only trees
24 between us and the airport even being
25 discussed? And as we talked about earlier, was
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1 that crash in 1996, and how those trees were the
2 only thing that saved us from the houses [sic].
3 What's probably most disserving about all
4 of this is the distortions and
5 misrepresentations of facts by JAA. In the
6 application for rezoning that was submitted to
7 you just two weeks ago, it boldly stated that
8 after -- and this is a quote in there: "After
9 negotiations with the local councilman and
10 neighbors, that the neighbors agreed" -- "the
11 neighborhood agreed to their proposal," and that
12 we agreed to the development of that land as
13 long as some of the trees were saved.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Leis, your time has
15 expired.
16 MS. LEIS: Okay. Thank you.
17 That was not true.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Appreciate you
19 being here.
20 Ms. Whatley, followed by Dan Boylston, to
21 be followed by Roberta Thomas.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 My name is Cathy Whatley. I reside at
25 10932 Raley Creek Drive South.
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1 I own property in the immediate vicinity.
2 I own an office at the corner of St. Johns Bluff
3 and High Ridge Road. It is almost immediately
4 behind the property. And I own a piece that
5 directly abuts the JAA property that fronts on
6 Monument Road.
7 This is not the first time that JAA has
8 attempted to rezone this parcel to enhance JAA's
9 revenue opportunities regardless of the
10 community's comments and promises made by JAA.
11 As a real estate professional, I believe
12 that property owners have the right to use their
13 property without overburdensome restrictions
14 placed on them. However, I also believe that
15 those same property owners cannot act without
16 regard to the impact their use will have on
17 surrounding owners.
18 I don't argue that JAA has the right to
19 lease their land, although prior to the 1990
20 comp plan they didn't have the zoning capability
21 to do that. They got -- at a higher density
22 zoning. They had an ACRI, and they got
23 increased to CRO at the modification of the comp
24 plan.
25 I do argue against their request to
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1 creating a more intense CCG-1 use under the
2 design of a PUD. If this is approved, it would
3 be logical that others of us that have CRO
4 zoning in that immediate area may also ask you
5 to rezone our parcels to CCG-1 in the future.
6 The Planning Commission and Planning
7 Department have recommended creating a
8 conservation easement as a condition of this
9 PUD. I have serious concerns about the owners'
10 future intentions regarding any easements placed
11 on the property.
12 As already mentioned on October 23rd, the
13 Times Union reported that during the board's
14 annual -- their board's October meeting, the
15 board members raised issue with reduced revenue
16 they would receive by having to place
17 approximately six acres of the land as a
18 permanent conservation easement. It was
19 reported that John Clark said one way out of the
20 dilemma was to revisit the permanent easement
21 later.
22 While I would ask that you deny this zoning
23 request, if you elect to proceed with
24 recommending approval of this PUD, I strongly
25 urge you to put some restrictive covenants with
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1 the land that will forever limit JAA from coming
2 back and asking permission to once again change
3 their mind about the use of this site and the
4 permanent conservation easement.
5 You can condition your approval by
6 requiring deeded covenants or conditions that
7 could not be modified except with the approval
8 of all adjoining property owners. Any
9 conditions you create could include the
10 requirement that no clearing be done on the
11 easement.
12 And, again, while I ask your support to
13 deny this, if you are intent upon approving it,
14 I encourage you and urge you to put some
15 restrictions where we do not have to have this
16 conversation again ten or twenty years from
17 now.
18 Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Whatley.
20 Dan Boylston, followed by Roberta Thomas,
21 and then our last speaker will be Skot Wilson.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dan Boylston, 10656
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1 Hemming Road.
2 I bid you all well.
3 My family and I have lived in our residence
4 on Hemming Road for 19 years and change, and in
5 that 19 years we have seen the demographics in
6 the neighborhood change. There are considerably
7 more school-age children than there used to be.
8 These children catch buses up and down St. Johns
9 Bluff Road within a block of this proposed
10 development.
11 With the -- if the development itself is
12 successful, it's going to increase the traffic
13 dramatically. Incidentally, also on Beverly
14 Nalle and Holly Oaks Lake Drive, so that they
15 can avoid -- so they'll go through the
16 residential neighborhood to avoid the St. Johns
17 Bluff/Fort Caroline intersection.
18 That's going to make for a much more
19 dangerous neighborhood, but it's going to be a
20 problem for the kids catching the bus because we
21 all know kids aren't as safe as they ought to be
22 and there are a lot of idiots out there who
23 don't pay attention to the kids either. It's
24 going to be more dangerous for our kids catching
25 the bus, getting on and off.
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1 In addition to that, the planned pharmacy
2 being a 24-hour pharmacy, butting up against a
3 residential neighborhood is going to give the
4 criminal element a -- what you might call a
5 supposed legitimate reason for being in the
6 neighborhood at all hours of the day and night.
7 This too is going to be a detriment to our
8 neighborhood.
9 This is a nice neighborhood. It's
10 relatively quiet as far as the residents are
11 concerned. We don't have any problems there.
12 The people are friendly. We don't want the
13 intrusion that this would cause and the
14 difficulties that it would bring to our
15 neighborhood.
16 It's going to eventually reduce our
17 property values, and as importantly as that,
18 something that's not quantifiable, it's going to
19 reduce the inherent aesthetic value of the
20 neighborhood itself.
21 Please don't do this. It's too hard to
22 find good middle-class neighborhoods anymore.
23 We don't need to destroy another one.
24 Thank you very much.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Boylston.
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1 Ms. Thomas, followed by Skot Wilson.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
5 Roberta Thomas, 3470 Lenczyk Drive West,
6 Jacksonville, Florida 32277.
7 I'm here to talk about 2007-928. I would
8 like to just make a few points here.
9 First of all, when you study this -- and I
10 know you have and will eventually study and read
11 about this particular thing from the Planning
12 Department staff report -- please notice that
13 there is not enough information in there about
14 the St. Johns Bluff Corridor Study or the
15 Wonderwood study, all of which should be
16 consistent with this rezoning and this PUD
17 request, and it's not in there.
18 Also, I would like to talk to you about the
19 comp plan, under transportation element 11.2.4,
20 which says, "The City shall coordinate with
21 other government agencies to protect airports
22 from the encroachment of incompatible land
23 uses. Similarly, the City shall adopt and
24 implement land development regulations that
25 provide for noise buffers between rail and air
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1 facilities and for other sensitive land areas."
2 In 1970, the Craig Airport was asked to
3 acquire additional land for the purposes of
4 encroachment, for the residential and commercial
5 developments around it. The airport has not
6 done so. And the City has, meanwhile, allowed
7 commercial and residential neighborhoods to
8 build around the airport. In fact, you've got
9 that 12,000 new homes into the area that has
10 built around there. And, as you know, the
11 runway is trying to now be extended.
12 If we take away this particular tree
13 buffer, what kind of buffer is going to be
14 allowed there? There will be no buffer. How
15 can that possibly be consistent with the 2010
16 comp plan which says you're supposed to have a
17 buffer?
18 Now, if you're going to go ahead and take
19 and to build that into commercial buildings --
20 and I guess they're going to be 35, 45, 50 feet;
21 I don't know what the height is going to be --
22 where is the buffer that you're supposed to
23 comply with?
24 I would ask that you please consider that
25 commercial development. When you're talking
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1 about safety with the airport runway extension,
2 think about that. This doesn't make any sense.
3 You want to run -- take the runway and let it
4 extend, and then you want to build commercial
5 right next to it and you don't want to have any
6 buffer. Where is the safety?
7 Please deny this. Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Thomas.
9 Our last speaker on -928 is Mr. Skot
10 Wilson.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Mr. Wilson.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: If you'll state your name
15 and address, please.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Skot David Wilson, 6724
17 Cherbourg Avenue South, -05 ZIP.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 MR. WILSON: I am in support of keeping
20 just the idea of maybe putting in a buffer for
21 safety.
22 What's the premise to extend the runway?
23 The premise is safety, correct? If the premise
24 is safety and you're going to put in a buffer,
25 not a runway extension but the type of runway
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1 that can be used for emergency use only, then
2 any other argument they have to extend the
3 runway is rendered moot. It's right out the
4 window.
5 If they state they want safety, then the
6 bare minimum of that, the least economic impact
7 upon the City, the least developmental impact
8 upon the residents is what is mandated.
9 There is a promise in place, and that
10 promise must be honored. If there's one
11 resident left in that neighborhood over there
12 that somebody made a promise to and said, "We
13 will not encroach," you have to honor that.
14 Anybody can look at it and tell. People
15 who are powerful and rich, people who want to
16 further develop and have aviation as a root of
17 that development or tied to that development are
18 going to want this for their economic gain, for
19 their convenience, not for the residents there.
20 We have how much runway space over at
21 Cecil, which is underutilized? Can't they
22 divert there? Do they have to encroach upon
23 another middle-class, working-class
24 neighborhood, breaking promises, breaking vows,
25 and basically deteriorating the quality of life
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1 of those people?
2 I fully support the people who were
3 standing up here to fight for their
4 neighborhood.
5 Thank you very much.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Wilson.
7 And as I mentioned when we started the
8 public hearing, this bill will be continued
9 until December the 4th with no other action this
10 evening.
11 Thank you all for being here to speak on
12 that tonight.
13 Committee, Item 23, at the bottom of
14 page 7, 2007-930, we will open the public
15 hearing, and we have Mr. Copeland, who is
16 here -- is it for questions only or do you wish
17 to speak, Mr. Copeland?
18 MR. COPELAND: Mr. Chairman, I'm here for
19 questions only.
20 I believe the Planning Department is going
21 to make some conditions, and I'll defer to the
22 Planning Department.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
24 Any questions of Mr. Copeland?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll go to the department.
2 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
3 Through the Chair, application for a waiver
4 of road frontage, ordinance 2007-930, seeks a
5 reduction from the required road frontage from
6 160 feet to 35 feet.
7 The subject property is located off of
8 11326 Pine Acres Road.
9 Initially, this was originally scheduled
10 for October 2nd, and we had a staff report
11 recommendation for denial.
12 Since that time, we've had discussions with
13 the applicant and have come to an agreement.
14 Essentially, one of the units is going to revert
15 back to a guest house. And there's basically
16 three conditions that we're now proposing to
17 amend our recommendation from denial, now in
18 support of this application.
19 The first condition would be, "The driveway
20 easement shall be improved to be at least
21 12 feet wide and stabilized to provide positive
22 drainage with either coquina or gravel."
23 Condition 2, "The address shall be clearly
24 marked on Pine Acres Road."
25 Condition 3, "The existing house shall be
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1 converted to a guest house for temporary
2 quarters only and shall not be utilized by
3 anyone other than a relative."
4 And actually a fourth condition, "The
5 subject property shall not be further
6 subdivided."
7 Those would be our recommendations for
8 approval.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
10 MR. COPELAND: They're acceptable, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Acceptable?
12 MR. COPELAND: Yes.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any questions for
14 Mr. Copeland or the staff?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I guess at this time,
17 Ms. Eller, we'll go ahead and close the public
18 hearing. And we need to entertain the
19 amendment?
20 MS. ELLER: Yes.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. If I can -- I'll
22 entertain a motion on the amendment.
23 MR. CORRIGAN: So moved.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we have a second?
25 MR. SHAD: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and a second on the
2 amendment.
3 Any discussion on the amendment?
4 Ms. Eller, go ahead.
5 MS. ELLER: Just to clarify, the amendment
6 would be to grant the waiver with the conditions
7 as read into the record by Mr. Kelly.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Corrigan --
9 MR. CORRIGAN: Yes.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
11 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
12 amendment signify by saying aye.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: None.
17 The amendment carries.
18 MR. CORRIGAN: Move the bill as amended.
19 MR. SHAD: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion on the bill
21 as amended and a second.
22 Any discussion on the bill as amended?
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
25 ballot.
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, no nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2007-930. You've granted the waiver
10 rather.
11 MR. COPELAND: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Copeland.
13 Committee, top of page 8. I'm sorry, we
14 have already discussed item 24.
15 Item 25, 2007-988. We will open the public
16 hearing, and we have two speakers, Mr. Skot
17 Wilson -- do you wish to speak still,
18 Mr. Wilson?
19 MR. WILSON: Yes, sir.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And then to be
21 followed by Alex Wilson.
22 MR. HARDEN: I have a card too, but I'm
23 here for questions only.
24 (Mr. Wilson approaches the podium.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Wilson, go
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1 ahead. State your name and address again for
2 the record, please.
3 MR. WILSON: Skot Wilson, 6724 Cherbourg
4 Avenue South, Jacksonville, 32205.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 MR. WILSON: -988, it looks like Glorious
7 Johnson may be changing her direction to try and
8 get the building moved. I have talken [sic]
9 with her personally, and she thinks that it
10 might -- that might be her best option to try to
11 save the building. She wants to do whatever she
12 can to save the building, so do I, and I want to
13 save it in place.
14 My contention is -- Mr. Harden spoke the
15 last time here and said that if you pass this,
16 we have no right to build on it. But if I sold
17 you a piece of property that was wetlands, if I
18 sold you a piece of property that had an
19 endangered species and a bill or a law came down
20 and said, you may now not develop on this, you
21 are restricted, and you had an idea that that
22 was the case, then that's your liability.
23 That's the risk that you took.
24 They knew it met historic criteria. They
25 knew it could be subject for that type of review
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1 and protection.
2 But to keep their development of that
3 property unfettered, my suggestion is to
4 subdivide the property 12 to 6 foot from the
5 north wall and 12 foot from the east wall
6 outward to the curb line, to the south and west,
7 and designate just that area because the rest is
8 just desolate, it's all tore up, but just that
9 area, basically the building and the ground
10 immediately under it as historic, preserve that
11 in place there.
12 Remember, this is the last piece of
13 anything a century old. What does it say of us
14 when we eradicate every last little vestige of
15 our roots?
16 We go into -- people have no problem going
17 to private neighborhoods and saying you may not
18 do this with your house or that with your house
19 because you have a historic designation. Try to
20 change something in a house in Riverside or
21 Avondale that's protected and they're right on
22 top of you. This should be the case here.
23 Businesses in the area, including Blue
24 Cross, who I have spoken to, several businesses
25 around the corner, a couple of paint stores,
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1 some businesses that have been there for
2 60 years all support the idea of leaving it
3 intact. It is part of their heritage. It is
4 part of that business community's heritage, not
5 the new tenants, but the older tenants.
6 I'm asking that you discuss and possibly
7 modify this bill or amend this bill to include
8 just the area immediately area around Station 5
9 proper, to exclude the rest of the property for
10 the purpose of historic designation only, and
11 continue it back to the regular City Council.
12 Thank you very much.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Your
14 time has expired.
15 While Mr. Alex Wilson comes up, I'll
16 mention that this is -- it is up to be withdrawn
17 tonight, and we have Mr. Arpen here from the
18 Office of General Counsel who will speak when we
19 close the public hearing.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Wilson, how are you?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Pretty good.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Good. Go ahead.
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Other than the fact that
25 you -- nothing has been proceeded to be done.
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1 This is in your hands because this is what you
2 guys need to be doing. It's history. Put
3 yourself in my -- I've been burned.
4 If you come along, you get burned, fire
5 station is there, somebody tears it down, how
6 would you feel? The guys that saved -- that may
7 have just saved your life and you stab in the
8 back.
9 That's history, and it makes history. This
10 makes history. This --
11 And you know what this picture is? You
12 have a fire station out in the hall out there.
13 You shouldn't have it unless you're going to try
14 and save it. I mean, no, it stays.
15 It shouldn't be moved, nothing should be
16 done to it. In fact, it should be repaired.
17 This should be undivided attention because it's
18 history. That is basically it.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Wilson.
21 Appreciate you being here.
22 We will close the public hearing on
23 2007-988, and I will let Mr. Arpen -- I'm sorry,
24 hang on a second, Mr. Arpen.
25 Mr. Harden, did you --
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1 MR. HARDEN: Just questions if you have
2 any.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Were there any questions for
4 Mr. Harden?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I'm sorry.
7 Mr. Arpen, go ahead.
8 MR. ARPEN: Through the Chair,
9 Councilmember Johnson asked me to briefly
10 explain the motion to withdraw.
11 The property at issue here was the subject
12 of a bill that was passed in 2005. It was part
13 of a land swap with Fidelity, and the land swap
14 actually -- the closing has occurred, the deed
15 has been held in escrow, but it gave Fidelity
16 the right to demolish the fire station, but it
17 also gave the City the right to relocate the
18 fire station.
19 And that's what Councilmember Johnson has
20 done, and she wants to withdraw this bill. She
21 indicates she's gotten the support of the
22 administration for funding to relocate the fire
23 station, and so she's going to ask you to
24 withdraw this bill and she'll submit a new bill
25 to conduct a study to find an alternative site.
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1 One site she suggested is down at the Kids
2 Campus, adjacent to the other fire station. So
3 she wants to withdraw this bill and submit a
4 follow-up bill and conduct a study for an
5 alternative location with the funding to
6 effectuate that relocation.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Arpen.
8 At this time --
9 MR. CORRIGAN: Move to withdraw.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion to
11 withdraw.
12 Is there a second?
13 MR. SHAD: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second.
15 Discussion on the withdrawal?
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing none, open the
18 ballot.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
21 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
2 withdrawn 2007-988.
3 Item 26, committee, 2007-994. We will open
4 the public hearing, and we have a few speakers.
5 The first is Michael -- and forgive me if I
6 pronounce your name -- Michael Yarmy, to be
7 followed by Mr. Ray Menard.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: If you want to -- that's
10 fine, as long as he agrees.
11 Mr. Menard, you'll be first.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: If you'll just state your
14 name and address for the record, please.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Ray Menard.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: You can raise that up.
17 MR. MENARD: (Complies.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: There you go.
19 MR. MENARD: And my residence is 12549
20 Turnberry Drive, Jacksonville.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Go ahead.
22 MR. MENARD: I'm the owner of the property
23 in question and also the applicant for a
24 rezoning, which I'm -- what I'm seeking is to
25 rezone property that I own that is currently
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1 zoned as a PUD, restricted to an eight-chair
2 beauty salon only. Seeking to rezone it to a
3 PUD that allows CO uses, plus pet grooming, such
4 that the property can be a more viable location
5 for successful small businesses and, hence,
6 become a contributor to the rejuvenation of the
7 Arlington area along the Rogero Road corridor.
8 At this point, the -- my application has
9 gained the approval of the Planning Department
10 as well as the Planning Commission, having both
11 forwarded their recommendations, I'm sure.
12 The current underlying land use of the
13 property is CGC, which allows for many uses,
14 very intense, such as auto dealerships and
15 salvage yards. What I'm proposing to rezone is
16 the least intense property use possible under a
17 CGC, which is uses consistent with the CO
18 zoning.
19 CO zoning is also the current zoning of the
20 properties bordering my property on the north,
21 the south, and the west, so it's consistent with
22 all the zoning of the properties in the area.
23 The CO uses sought are also -- are less
24 intense than the current PUD zoning of an
25 eight-chair beauty salon in the way of traffic
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1 intensity. Case in point is to look at the
2 traffic in and out of salons that are -- one
3 being located directly southwest of my property
4 and another one being one block north.
5 I have owned the property for just over
6 36 months at this point and have had the
7 opportunity to lease it for just eight of those
8 months. This is due to a lack of demand for
9 another salon along the Rogero corridor, which
10 already has six operating salons. Another salon
11 is not needed nor demanded.
12 Conversely, the business that I'm proposing
13 to lease the property to, if successful in the
14 rezoning effort, would be -- appear to have high
15 demand within the area. The nearest pet
16 grooming businesses are located within three and
17 five miles respectively.
18 I have invested heavily in the property to
19 date and renovations to enhance the appeal of
20 the business -- the location for businesses, and
21 intend to continue to do so to attract and keep
22 strong value-added businesses to the Arlington
23 community.
24 There's now a need to make more open use to
25 afford the CO zoning to attract businesses to
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1 the property. I expect to continue to invest in
2 the property for further enhancements, its value
3 and attractiveness to businesses and to the
4 customers of those businesses.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Menard. Your
6 time has expired.
7 Mr. Yarmy, did you still wish to speak?
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee, did you have a
10 question?
11 MS. LEE: Yes.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee has a question,
13 Mr. Menard.
14 MR. MENARD: Yes.
15 MS. LEE: Are you aware that the CPAC in
16 that neighborhood is opposed?
17 MR. MENARD: I am aware that there's some
18 conflicting information on the CPAC.
19 MS. LEE: Did you try and meet with them?
20 MR. MENARD: I'm sorry?
21 MS. LEE: Did you try to meet with them?
22 MR. MENARD: Yes, I did.
23 I attended their meeting on the 7th of
24 September, presented my plan.
25 At the meeting that I was at, I gained
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1 concurrence to that plan, and that is documented
2 in the minutes --
3 MS. LEE: I'm talking about the CPAC.
4 MR. MENARD: I'm talking about the CPAC
5 committee that I attended.
6 MS. LEE: So they are no longer opposed?
7 MR. MENARD: I don't -- like I said, I
8 believe the CPAC committee has waffled on this.
9 In September, there was indications that
10 they approved --
11 MS. LEE: That's not my question.
12 My question is, are they still opposed?
13 MR. MENARD: And I would like to be clear
14 in my statement.
15 In the September -- and it's documented in
16 the minutes that I have received -- they
17 approved.
18 In October, they reversed that decision, I
19 believe, based on some letters that I've seen
20 during the Planning Commission, saying that they
21 no longer approved, and the basis of their
22 request to no longer approve was failure to
23 comply with the Old Arlington Neighborhood
24 Action Plan.
25 However, I do have a letter from the
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1 planning manager that oversees the neighborhood
2 action plan, who has agreed with my plan and
3 concurs with my request for rezoning.
4 MS. LEE: Through the Chair, this isn't my
5 district, but I'm just a little curious. The
6 only reason I asked the question, because you
7 made a comment that you renovated the building.
8 Why did you renovate before you got approval?
9 What made you think that it was going to be
10 approved?
11 MR. MENARD: I renovated the building
12 because it needed renovation. I mean, it was
13 purely -- it had nothing to do with this
14 rezoning. I've owned the property for
15 36 months.
16 I'm now before you asking to rezone the
17 property because I have a use that requires
18 rezoning. I renovated under the assumption that
19 I might be able to lease it as a beauty salon.
20 And having found that that was a fruitless
21 effort, I have expanded my search for other
22 viable businesses.
23 MS. LEE: What type of businesses are you
24 supporting to come in to your --
25 MR. MENARD: At this time, I am proposing
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1 to lease the building to an individual bringing
2 pet grooming in. And, again, that seems to be a
3 needed business in that area and certainly is
4 far less intense than an eight-station beauty
5 salon.
6 MS. LEE: Okay. Are we still in the public
7 hearing?
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am. We still have a
9 few more speakers.
10 MS. LEE: Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am. Thank you,
12 Ms. Lee.
13 Mr. Corrigan, did you --
14 MR. CORRIGAN: No.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
16 Mr. Menard.
17 MR. MENARD: Thank you very much.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is Michael
19 Yarmy, followed by Roberta Thomas.
20 And before you speak, Mr. Yarmy, I do need
21 to disclose ex-parte. I'm sorry I didn't do
22 that when we opened the public hearing.
23 On November the 6th, I met with Mr. Menard
24 and Mr. Yarmy in my office to discuss the PUD.
25 It was at 8:30 a.m. in this building. We talked
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1 about the site plan and also uses on the
2 property, and also I had two telephone
3 conversations with Ms. Thomas, on October 26th
4 and November 4th, to discuss the potential uses
5 of the property. I just needed to disclose
6 that.
7 Go ahead, Mr. Yarmy. Appreciate you being
8 here.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
10 My name is Michael Yarmy. I live at 7504
11 Quitina Drive, right here in Jacksonville, in
12 Arlington, in the 77 area code.
13 I was trying to open a dog grooming shop
14 because Libby, who is also here with me, is the
15 groomer, and I saw a need in the community, in
16 Arlington, to open this shop because it is a
17 much well needed business because there's so
18 many dog lovers in this Arlington area.
19 Also, I have owned and operated Michael's
20 Carpet Care for 21 years in Jacksonville, and
21 I'm just trying to ask the council to make sure
22 that they vote for the rezoning of this property
23 so we can enhance the beauty, the surrounding.
24 We have -- we're very low impact. There
25 will be noncriminal activities there in most
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1 likelihood because we don't have the traffic
2 that any other business might have, such as a
3 convenience store or something like that that --
4 that is allowed on Rogero Road, or a gas station
5 that's allowed over there.
6 We have so much to give to this community,
7 that we're just bursting at the seams to
8 continue and to open and to progress and
9 hopefully even hire people to enhance the tax
10 base of this area.
11 Rogero is such a -- an area that has been
12 undervalued with the potential that it has in
13 the -77 area because it's mainly the main
14 corridor that comes into Arlington and to
15 Merrill Road.
16 And if we can get this rezoning, we can
17 really beautify this place and make it something
18 that Jacksonville can be proud of, and
19 especially in Arlington because I -- I've lived
20 in this town since '81, and I have no intentions
21 of leaving because I love the Arlington area. I
22 mean, I'm very passionate about the Arlington
23 area. Every business I will open -- I will open
24 more -- will be in the Arlington area because I
25 feel so strongly about this area, and I
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1 appreciate your time.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Yarmy.
3 Ms. Thomas, followed by Mr. Evans.
4 And Mr. Evans will be our last
5 speaker.
6 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Thomas, name and
8 address, please.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Don't start my clock
10 until it's time.
11 I have some handouts that I gave. Does
12 everyone have their handout?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: We do.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Diane, take a breath.
15 Here we go for three minutes, child.
16 Okay. Roberta Thomas, 3470 Lenczyk Drive
17 West, 32277.
18 I am a member of CPAC. I'm a member of
19 GACC. I was also -- I'm a steering committee
20 member of the Neighborhood Action Plan for Old
21 Arlington. Also, I am chair of the Rogero Town
22 Center.
23 You have heard a number of statements
24 tonight which are not all true. This is not
25 consistent with the Old Arlington NAP. It is
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1 not consistent with the Rogero Town Center.
2 You also heard a moment ago something about
3 some documents. The CPAC never took a position
4 of approval. There was no waffling. I am a
5 member. I was at all the meetings. That is
6 false.
7 Someone placed a fraudulent document into
8 the record. Someone also wrote fraudulent
9 minutes of the CPAC that are untrue. It has
10 been recorded to the ethics committee and to the
11 inspector general and to the mayor. And so that
12 being done, I will move on.
13 This matter is something that should be
14 denied. In the last eight years that I've been
15 before the City Council on LUZ matters, this is
16 the most offensive one that I've had to come up
17 here and address. And I've had one that I
18 thought was pretty bad, but this is the worst.
19 This needs to be denied. First of all, the
20 owner/applicant, whatever, has over 14 code
21 offenses of the zoning violations.
22 Now, they're still pending, trying to use
23 this PUD to get around it, and that really
24 upsets me. And as I speak, there were, I think,
25 two more called in today.
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1 It's simply too intense. What he has asked
2 for is a blank check. We don't know what the
3 PUD is, and he wants to use it as almost a mixed
4 use, have more than one use simultaneously.
5 This is on a .19 acre, a little, tiny,
6 little parcel which was a house. It was zoned
7 commercial office. And as I read the Planning
8 Department's staff report, it says it's both CO
9 uses and PUD. It needs to stay CO.
10 This is not consistent with the Rogero Town
11 Center. We ask in there that we not have any
12 monument signs. This particular node has a
13 school crossing right there for kids, a high
14 intensity of kids crossing the crosswalk there.
15 We're putting in pavers, a palm tree theme,
16 lights, all that. We do not want them
17 landscaping.
18 The Planning Department wrote that they
19 needed to landscape the right-of-way and the
20 City easement. Now, that's ludicrous. We got a
21 million dollar town center going in there,
22 trying to revitalize the neighborhood, and they
23 recommend something like this, putting in a dog
24 grooming place. The neighbors have already --
25 they've already done it. The neighbors have
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1 sent in letters complaining about the dogs, the
2 stench, the barking, and the poop. That's not
3 compatible.
4 Adjacent to this property, although it's
5 zoned CO, it is residential uses. In the NAP,
6 which I put into your handouts and I hope you'll
7 read it, it literally says that a PUD is not
8 supposed to be approved if it's adjacent to
9 these residential uses and if the intensity of
10 the zoning is to go up, and this needs to be
11 denied.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Thomas --
13 MS. THOMAS: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: -- your time has expired.
15 Thank you.
16 Mr. Evans.
17 And Mr. Evans will be our last speaker
18 on -994.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening,
22 Mr. Chairman, members of the council.
23 My name is Dave Evans. I live at 2007
24 Hovington Circle West.
25 I don't live anywhere near this particular
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1 zoning, but I am a member of CPAC and I was on
2 the CPAC LUZ Committee.
3 I want to read this letter, just a portion
4 of it, that was to Mr. Gray Edwards and also the
5 Honorable Michael Corrigan.
6 "District 2 Citizens Planning Advisory
7 Committee, CPAC, are in opposition with
8 condition of the proposal for rezoning 2007-994
9 to change the zoning of .19 acres from PUD to
10 PUD to allow the expansion of business use
11 options at 1461 Rogero Road, between Rogero Road
12 South and Brandemere Road North for the
13 following:
14 "The site is not in harmony with the
15 neighborhood action plan; there are too many
16 permitted uses for the PUD; and CPAC needs to
17 see more restrictive uses.
18 "There's a school crossing close by,
19 creating dangerous traffic conditions. The
20 proposed uses are not in harmony with the Rogero
21 Town Center.
22 "Sincerely, Joseph Lek, Chair."
23 I would like to say that neither in the
24 committee nor in the meeting did anyone oppose
25 this particular letter. We were in total
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1 agreement that the paint brush he came in with
2 was a six-inch brush and should have had a
3 half-inch brush.
4 You can't leave a great, wide opening to
5 these people when they want to come in and do
6 things. This is a neighborhood that needs to be
7 protected. Say what you want and bring it to
8 CPAC, and we'll probably approve it if it's
9 something within reason. But when you put on a
10 big, six-inch brush, we don't need it.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Evans.
13 And seeing no other speakers, we will close
14 the public hearing on --
15 MR. MENARD: Mr. Speaker, I'd like an
16 opportunity for rebuttal.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: There's not on this type of
18 a -- on this type. You've already had your
19 three minutes, Mr. Menard. Unless a committee
20 member --
21 MR. MENARD: Why would I not be allowed
22 to?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Unless a committee member
24 has a question.
25 MR. MENARD: One thing I would like to
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1 submit to Ms. Lee --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Unless a committee member
3 has a question, we can't let you come back.
4 MR. MENARD: One thing I would like to
5 submit to Ms. Lee --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: If she asks --
7 MR. MENARD: -- regarding her earlier
8 question --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: If she asks you a question
10 now, you may come back up to speak, but I
11 can't --
12 MR. MENARD: What I'd like to present is
13 the minutes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: You can put that into the
15 record, but you can't come back to speak.
16 MR. MENARD: Right. I'll submit copies of
17 the letters. They were actually said by
18 Ms. Thomas herself, so I trust they were
19 accurate.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
21 We'll go ahead and take those, but we can't
22 let you speak another time.
23 MR. MENARD: Here are the September
24 minutes.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Menard.
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1 MS. ELLER: Mr. Chairman.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, Ms. Eller.
3 MS. ELLER: We do have --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Menard, if you can
5 refrain from your comments.
6 Thank you.
7 Ms. Eller.
8 MS. ELLER: I believe that this issue was
9 raised through several e-mails regarding the
10 CPAC letter and the inconsistent CPAC letter.
11 And I believe that Mr. Crofts did do some
12 research, and I'll let him explain the issue.
13 I think what had happened is that there was
14 some sort of subcommittee group that met, that
15 had a -- that was either favorable or supported
16 the particular project, and perhaps the Planning
17 Department staff person had typed up some sort
18 of position based upon that subcommittee
19 meeting.
20 Ultimately, you know, subcommittees from
21 the CPAC do move forward to the full CPAC for
22 final recommendation, and so I think that was
23 where some of the confusion lied. I think it
24 may be helpful for the record.
25 I understand that both parties have
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1 differing opinions and offered different
2 recollections of how things occurred, but I
3 think that we should defer to staff at this
4 point to explain what they have in their
5 record. And, at that point, there would be no
6 comment from either party while the staff makes
7 this explanation.
8 So I would appreciate it if you both would
9 just sit down at this point --
10 MS. THOMAS: I am --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Thomas --
12 MS. THOMAS: I'm a --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Thomas, you can't speak
14 now.
15 MS. ELLER: -- and let Mr. Crofts explain
16 the information he gathered from the e-mails
17 that were sent in.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Eller.
19 And, Ms. Thomas, if you can go ahead and
20 take your seat. We're done with the public
21 comments.
22 Mr. Crofts, I agree with Ms. Eller. If you
23 can go ahead and speak to this, please.
24 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman, or Vice
25 Chairman, and the committee.
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1 The saga regarding the letters is as
2 follows: In this case, the department received
3 two letters under CPAC letterhead. The first
4 was signed -- was unsigned -- I'm sorry -- it
5 was unsigned and dated September 17th, 2007, and
6 it is addressed to Gray Edwards, chairman of the
7 Planning Commission, and the Honorable Michael
8 Corrigan as well.
9 In a follow-up e-mail from the
10 Neighborhoods Department that I received -- or
11 the department received from James Richardson,
12 he seems to allude that this particular unsigned
13 letter was the product of a subcommittee -- the
14 Land Use and Zoning Subcommittee of the
15 Arlington CPAC.
16 Now, I don't know if that's accurate or
17 not, but that's what he alluded to in his
18 e-mail.
19 We subsequently received a signed letter a
20 month later. The letter was dated October 8th,
21 2007, and it is essentially the same thing as
22 the gentleman read into the record, which was in
23 opposition to the rezoning, for various reasons.
24 I will state that this came to light at the
25 Planning Commission meeting. And the Planning
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1 Commission, for their deliberation -- we had
2 attached the first letter to our report that was
3 submitted in our book to the Planning
4 Commission. And the second letter came to light
5 sometime between our report and the Planning
6 Commission meeting, and it was read in total to
7 the Planning Commission for their consideration.
8 So the Planning Commission had the second
9 letter, the signed letter which we consider as
10 the official letter, and the Planning Commission
11 considered it as the official letter reflecting
12 the official position of the Arlington CPAC.
13 And that letter, along with our report, was
14 presented and considered by the Planning
15 Commission for their ultimate recommendation of
16 approval.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
19 Ms. Eller.
20 MS. ELLER: Thank you, John. I appreciate
21 that.
22 As you have heard from Mr. Crofts, the
23 official position of the CPAC was in opposition,
24 regardless of what interim conversations may or
25 may not have occurred and whatever
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1 understandings had been communicated, filed to
2 that official position being sent.
3 Whether it was reversed or not reversed, at
4 this point all we know is that the official
5 position of the CPAC was forwarded to the
6 Planning Department, it was read into the record
7 at the Planning Commission meeting, so the
8 Planning Commission did make their decision and
9 recommendation based upon the information
10 presented, including the letter from the CPAC.
11 And now before you, you have the Planning
12 Commission and Planning Department
13 recommendations, which are both for approval
14 with several listed conditions.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: So the commission did
16 have -- if I could just ask, the commission,
17 then, did have the letter of opposition --
18 MS. ELLER: Correct.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: -- from the CPAC in their
20 consideration?
21 MS. ELLER: Correct.
22 And Dylan Reingold read the letter of
23 opposition into the record at the Planning
24 Commission meeting.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And it was signed by the
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1 chairman of the CPAC?
2 MS. ELLER: Correct, the one that was
3 signed by the chairman of the CPAC.
4 And notwithstanding that letter of
5 opposition, the Planning Commission did approve
6 the PUD with the conditions that are listed in
7 your letter from the Planning Commission to the
8 City Council. It's about 11 conditions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
10 Okay. We're done with the public hearing.
11 Now, we're on to the amendment, and I guess we
12 will either entertain a motion first or go to
13 the staff for the reading of the amendment.
14 Ms. Lee, you have a question?
15 MS. LEE: Yes.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am.
17 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I apologize for not
18 pushing my button.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: That's okay.
20 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, this is in your
21 district?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am. That's right.
23 MS. LEE: May I inquire your position?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: If we could get in the
25 proper posture, I would be happy to -- if you
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1 want to discuss the bill.
2 MR. SHAD: Move the amendment.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion on the
4 amendment.
5 MR. CORRIGAN: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a second.
7 Mr. Crofts.
8 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman and members of
9 the committee, I will read the following
10 conditions as the amendment to this bill.
11 Condition number 1, "The development shall
12 be subject to the original legal description
13 dated August 15, 2007."
14 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
15 to the revised written description dated October
16 3rd, 2007."
17 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
18 to the revised site plan dated October 3rd,
19 2007."
20 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
21 to the review and approval of the Department of
22 Public Works Traffic Engineering Division,
23 pursuant to their memorandum dated October 3rd,
24 2007, or as otherwise approved by the Traffic
25 Engineering Division and the Planning and
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1 Development Department."
2 Condition number 5, "The development site
3 identification sign shall be a monument sign
4 that does not exceed 10 feet in height and is
5 otherwise subject to the requirements of the
6 commercial office zoning district."
7 Number 6, "The development shall be subject
8 to the requirements of the landscape and tree
9 protection" -- "part 12 of the zoning code, and
10 shall adhere to the landscape standards of the
11 Rogero Road Town Center Initiative, or as
12 otherwise noted by the written description and
13 site plan and approved by the Planning and
14 Development Department.
15 "The hours of operation for the businesses
16 permitted under the PUD shall be from 7 a.m. to
17 7 p.m., Monday through Friday, and from 8 a.m.
18 to 6 p.m. on Saturday and Sunday.
19 Number 8, "The hair and cosmetology salon
20 shall consist of five stations and the
21 residential uses shall be single-family only."
22 Number 9, "The building color scheme shall
23 consist of an unpainted coquina exterior,
24 complemented with a dark-colored shingle roof
25 facade and matching painted wooden trim that
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1 gives a subtle accent to the building's
2 appearance."
3 Number 10, "A 100 percent opaque visual
4 screen shall be provided and maintained for any
5 dumpster located on the property."
6 Number 11, "The existing structure shall be
7 exempt from setback standards."
8 I have drafted something that -- with
9 regard to the monument sign. I can read it into
10 the record if you would like.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Will that be a 12th
12 condition?
13 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Go ahead.
15 MR. CROFTS: "The monument sign located on
16 the property shall be allowed to continue in
17 association with the initial uses under the
18 PUD. However, any subsequent use shall be
19 restricted to wall signage only, consistent with
20 part 13 of the zoning code and the Greater
21 Arlington Neighborhood Action Plan."
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Menard, are you
23 in agreement with those conditions?
24 MR. MENARD: I --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: If you can come to the
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1 microphone just so we can get it on the record.
2 We usually ask before we take action.
3 MR. MENARD: I just want to be clear that I
4 understand.
5 Are you stating that under the current
6 request, the monument sign would be allowed; any
7 subsequent request for rezoning would state that
8 we go to a wall sign?
9 MR. CROFTS: Any subsequent use of the
10 property beyond the initial uses of the property
11 that would be sanctioned to a certificate of
12 use, for example, would be required to revert to
13 wall signage only, consistent with the sign
14 ordinance, part 13 of the zoning code.
15 MR. MENARD: So in that statement, if we
16 continue to operate as a beauty salon, which is
17 the initial issue I have here and no longer
18 intend to do, and I go to pet grooming, then
19 that means the sign needs to be abandoned and we
20 go to wall signage? Or under -- are we saying
21 that the monument sign goes with the current
22 request of -- of rezoning, the current PUD?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: If I could -- Mr. Crofts, if
24 you could correct me.
25 Would the sign that's there now be allowed
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1 to stay for the dog grooming, but then for a use
2 after that, it would not be able to continue?
3 It would have to revert to -- it would have to
4 turn into a wall sign basically; is that
5 correct?
6 MR. CROFTS: That's the interpretation --
7 MR. MENARD: I'm in agreement with that
8 condition.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: With the other conditions as
10 well?
11 MR. MENARD: I'm in full agreement with all
12 12 conditions.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
14 Mr. Menard.
15 Is that it, Mr. Crofts?
16 MR. CROFTS: That's correct.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 Any discussion on the amendment?
19 MR. CORRIGAN: (Inaudible.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. I'll speak first to
21 it. It is in my district.
22 Thank you, Mr. Corrigan.
23 I think Ms. Lee was asking about that too.
24 I appreciate the time that Mr. Menard and
25 the other folks who have come have spent with
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1 me. We talked about this in my office. We met
2 about it. And I have also spoken to members of
3 the community about this, and we --
4 Just a little bit about that area,
5 committee. It is on Rogero Road where we're
6 trying to do beautification efforts, and we have
7 a town center initiative underway that's being
8 hammered out right now that, hopefully, will
9 begin to be implemented soon there. And the
10 residents have worked very hard to -- you know,
11 to work on this area.
12 It's surrounded by residential uses on
13 either side of Rogero Road. Not on Rogero but
14 behind there, there's just tons of residential
15 areas back there, and then on Rogero you have a
16 mix of commercial and -- it used to be more
17 residential than it is today, but it's now a mix
18 of commercial uses and residential. And so
19 basically we're trying to, you know, preserve
20 the character of the area there and maintain the
21 quality of life as we seek to improve Arlington.
22 I think that this -- and per my asking for
23 some of these, they were included here, and I
24 think that the owner and the applicant has
25 been -- you know, has been accepting of those,
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1 which I appreciate.
2 And as Mr. Yarmy had mentioned, with the
3 landscaping and the other things, I think that
4 he is committed to maintaining the landscaping
5 there, and they realize that this is an entryway
6 to our community there and that it's paramount
7 that we maintain that as people enter into
8 Arlington off the expressway and the other areas
9 there.
10 So, in my opinion -- and I used to be a
11 member of the CPAC, but I don't always
12 necessarily agree just because the CPAC does,
13 and in this particular case I do support the
14 rezoning because I believe we have reached a
15 compromise and we added in a few other
16 conditions and, you know, hammered out that
17 issue about the sign as well.
18 And it will be -- and I'll mention
19 condition 6. It mentioned, in fact, the Rogero
20 Road Town Center, the landscape and tree
21 protection requirements of the zoning code, and
22 also said it shall adhere to the landscape
23 standards of the Rogero Road Town Center
24 Initiative. So that's put in here too.
25 And in light of the neighborhood action
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1 plan that was done and approved last year by the
2 former council, in my opinion, I believe it's a
3 good compromise.
4 So I'll be happy to answer any questions
5 from my fellow committee members as we take this
6 item up.
7 Mr. Corrigan, you were first, and then if
8 Ms. Lee had any other questions.
9 MR. CORRIGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 I'll support the district councilperson in
11 this. I think you guys -- it sounds like you've
12 done a lot of work on it, and I appreciate the
13 work you've done.
14 I do have to comment that I find it one of
15 the most detailed conditions that I've ever seen
16 in my life.
17 I do have some concerns because a condition
18 is that the hair and cosmetology salon shall
19 consist of five stations. I mean -- I guess my
20 question to the Planning Department is, what if
21 all of a sudden the salon isn't a business
22 anymore? Do they have to do a PUD to PUD change
23 to put something else in there or -- or how does
24 that work?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I think it was a salon
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1 before -- Sean, you can answer this -- and it's
2 not going to be used as a salon now, but it --
3 normally -- before, it allowed for eight chairs;
4 is that correct?
5 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
6 The previous PUD, basically, was a
7 one-use-only PUD, and so it was -- prior to that
8 PUD, it was CO, commercial office zoning.
9 And essentially they're asking to retain
10 the salon use and add a pet grooming use. We're
11 reducing the number of chairs in the salon from
12 eight to five, with the addition of the pet
13 grooming.
14 They're not going to be -- I mean, it's
15 just an option in terms of the uses on the
16 property. They may not all occur within the
17 same structure at the same time, but basically
18 we're reverting, really, back to the CO zoning
19 in this --
20 MR. CORRIGAN: So they could do any CO
21 zoning uses? If they do a salon, that's the
22 limitation in --
23 MR. KELLY: There's a limitation on the
24 salon.
25 Right now under the CO, cosmetology and
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1 salons are permitted by right.
2 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. Thank you.
3 MR. CROFTS: Through the Chair, there's a
4 range of uses that are allowed within that
5 particular zoning district. It gives them more
6 options.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Ms. Lee, did you --
9 MS. LEE: No.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Shad, anything?
11 MR. SHAD: No.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any further
13 discussion? And we're on the amendment.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All in favor of the
16 amendment signify by saying aye.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. By your action, you
21 have approved the amendment.
22 MR. SHAD: Move the bill as amended.
23 MR. CORRIGAN: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
25 bill as amended.
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1 Any discussion?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
4 (Committee ballot opened.)
5 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
6 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
9 (Committee ballot closed.)
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
12 approved 2007-994 as amended.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: At this time, it is 10 p.m.,
14 and for Ms. Diane, we need to give her another
15 quick break. We will reconvene in ten minutes.
16 (Brief recess.)
17 (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's get back to
19 work. Ladies and gentlemen, we are on the top
20 of page 9, item 2007-1008. We're going to open
21 that public hearing. We have no speaker cards.
22 I'm sorry. I have one speaker card. We
23 have Mr. L. Charles Mann.
24 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
25 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, members of the
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1 committee, Charles Mann, representing M'liss
2 Stewart.
3 Ms. M'liss Stewart has lived on Batten
4 Island for approximately 30 years. Her heart's
5 desire was always to have a riverfront lot, and
6 in the year 2000 she bought one.
7 To acquire some additional income, she had
8 her lot rezoned from CCG-2 to PUD to allow for
9 outside boat storage. However, she didn't
10 realize in so doing, she lost her ability to
11 homestead the property.
12 As so many people, the taxes have
13 consistently gone up. She's been unable to --
14 right now, to afford the taxes that are on the
15 property. And in meeting with the tax assessor,
16 they agreed that if she would downzone her
17 property to single-family residential that they
18 would come out and reassess it, she could then
19 apply for homestead exemption, and cap her
20 property at the Save our Homes rate of 3 percent
21 a year. And that is the purpose of this
22 rezoning, so Ms. M'liss Stewart will not be
23 forced off her land by the increased taxes.
24 The Planning Department has recommended
25 denial; however, I would like to point out that
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1 the Northside zoning committee of the CPAC
2 recommended approval, and your Planning
3 Commission recommended approval.
4 Mr. Marc Hardesty, one of the Planning
5 Commissioners, who is quite a watchdog for the
6 Heckscher Drive area, recommended -- made the
7 motion to approve this, feeling that it was a
8 good zoning.
9 Mr. Holt, I'm sure if he had felt that this
10 was a bad zoning, would not have left the
11 meeting early. He would have called it up and,
12 in fact, he did not. So I feel like that we've
13 probably got an endorsement indirectly from the
14 area councilman, the Northside CPAC, and the
15 Planning Commission.
16 I'll stand by for questions. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 Seeing no questions for Mr. Mann, we will
19 close that public hearing and go to the Planning
20 Department for their input.
21 MR. SHAD: Move the amendment.
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: We just moved and seconded
24 an amendment, now we're going to the Planning
25 Department.
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1 Thank you, Councilmember Shad.
2 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
3 Through the Chair to the Land Use and
4 Zoning Committee, application R-2007-1008 is
5 a -- again, a request from a PUD to a PUD.
6 Staff found that in this instance, because
7 of the surrounding uses and properties and
8 zonings, essentially this would propose for two
9 lots, two single-family lots that would be
10 essentially book-ended by more intense
11 commercial uses immediately north and
12 immediately south of this property. We felt
13 that that was not a gradual transition of
14 densities and intensities. We felt it was
15 inconsistent with the comp plan policy. And,
16 again, we felt that these uses on the
17 surrounding properties would not be
18 complementary to the single-family use proposed
19 and would ultimately lead to potential
20 complaints regarding those other businesses, and
21 that it would just be out of character.
22 Again, this is a coastal high hazard area.
23 It is increasing density. And within the lot
24 sizes proposed, staff felt that the lot
25 widths -- there's no well, there's no City water
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1 and sewer out this far. And, you know, the well
2 and septic tanks -- it was also inconsistent
3 with those policies in our infrastructure
4 element, and basically with state statute
5 regarding the lot width because they wouldn't
6 have the sufficient lot width for a well and
7 septic to be served on this site.
8 So really the primary issues for staff was
9 inserting single-family in between two
10 commercially-intense uses, and then also the
11 inconsistencies with the coastal high hazard
12 element and increasing density in the coastal
13 high hazard.
14 Based on that, staff is recommending
15 denial.
16 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, may I address the
17 staff comments?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, you can.
19 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, the staff says
20 we're in the coastal high hazard area. The 2006
21 legislature defined the coastal high hazard area
22 as the elevation at the high tide of -- as a
23 category 1 hurricane.
24 I went and pulled the surge maps for this
25 area. And in Mayport, directly across the river
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1 from us, the surge map dictates that the height
2 would be 7.5 feet. I have an elevation
3 certificate of our property. It is out of date,
4 but the elevation has not changed. It says the
5 elevation of our property is from 8.4 to 8.7.
6 I'd like to submit this as reference if you
7 would care to.
8 I suggest that we're not in the coastal
9 high hazard area and any comments regarding that
10 should be disregarded based on this evidence.
11 The Planning Department also says that
12 we're not consistent with the comp plan. There
13 is a residential element in the CCG land use or
14 CGC land use. It is predominantly multifamily.
15 It does not allow for single-family development,
16 but it does, on an isolated basis, allow for
17 single-family homes to be built on one lot.
18 At the Planning Commission, the two-lot
19 request was changed to a request for one home on
20 this lot, which is currently already there.
21 I would like to offer you also rezoning
22 R-2005-563, which is over on -- bear with me
23 just a moment -- the corner of Ribault Avenue
24 and Trout River Boulevard. The property was
25 zoned CCG-2. It is a request for a rezoning for
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1 one single-family home, and it was approved, so
2 there's some consistency.
3 We would like to submit this also as
4 evidence that this has been done before by a
5 PUD.
6 This was approved and recommended approval
7 by the staff -- by the Planning Commission, with
8 conditions. I would like to submit the
9 conditions that the Planning Commission has put
10 on this, which is that it would be limited to
11 one home. The one home is actually
12 grandfathered in.
13 The purpose of this is so that she can get
14 reduced taxes.
15 The Planning Department also said that
16 we're not a transitional [sic]. Planning staff
17 says we've got two book ends. It's a
18 high-intensity use. They reference one of those
19 being a septic tank servicing company. Again,
20 that is completely incorrect. There was a
21 septic tank company out there installing a
22 septic tank on an adjoining piece of property.
23 The property immediately to the north of us
24 is a single-family home with a campground in
25 CCG-2 and a surf shop up on Heckscher Drive.
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1 That's really not intense commercial uses.
2 And immediately north of that, if you'll go
3 to page 9 of your staff report, you'll see that
4 the property north of that is all RLD-B, which
5 is a single-family/residential-zoned district.
6 To the south of us is CCG-2, but there are
7 residential uses coming in that are CCG-2. As
8 we referenced earlier, there is a 12-unit
9 condominium that has been approved to the south
10 of us. To the south of that was an item that I
11 had up before you earlier, the five townhouses.
12 The staff report in that earlier report
13 referenced this as a residential neighborhood.
14 Now they're saying it's commercial. I'm sorry,
15 they just shouldn't be allowed to have it both
16 ways. It's either a residential area, it's
17 either a commercial area, or if you go to your
18 Northside Vision Plan, you'll see that they call
19 this for a mixed-use area, Heckscher Drive Town
20 Center, which was a mixture of residential and
21 commercial, and it's designated for this exact
22 location.
23 Based on that, I would ask that you support
24 my client, allow her to stay on her land, and
25 get tax relief by downzoning her property.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Mann.
3 Was there a condition? If I missed it, I
4 apologize. That it will not be 35 feet in
5 height; is that -- is that assumed or --
6 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, we'll live with
7 35 feet on this one.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Just thought I'd ask.
9 I have no speakers --
10 MR. MANN: And I'll make no reference to
11 Mr. Crofts' memory.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: No further discussion on the
13 amendment.
14 All in favor of the amendment signal by
15 saying aye.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Amendment carries.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
21 MR. SHAD: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
23 2007-1008 as amended.
24 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
25 record the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2007-1008.
10 Thank you, Mr. Mann.
11 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, committee, thank
12 you all very much.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
14 Next is item 29, 2007-1009. We'll open
15 that public hearing.
16 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
17 public hearing, no further action.
18 Item 30, 2007-1010. We will open that
19 public hearing, and we have two speakers,
20 Lorraine Lee and Maurice Williams.
21 If you have another card, you can bring it
22 up, and you can do whatever order you would like
23 on that.
24 And I will apologize about calling you
25 earlier on the wrong bill. So come on down.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Who is going first? Is
3 Lorraine or Maurice or who's going first?
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Lorraine
8 Lee. I live at 2174 Thomas Court, 32207.
9 And if I look sleepy, it's because I
10 haven't been home since 6:45 this morning.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: That makes two of us --
12 three, four, five.
13 MS. LEE: I thank God for being able to
14 stand before you today.
15 I'm here concerning my neighborhood. We
16 have some concerns about the rezoning of some
17 property of the neighborhood where I reside and
18 attend church.
19 The property that we're concerned about is
20 the -- it says -1010 is the number on the
21 property, and it has -- I understand that the
22 owners want to build an apartment complex, but
23 we have an overcrowdedness in our neighborhood
24 as it is, and we feel like this type of complex
25 would increase the crime rate in our
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1 neighborhood, and it is -- from where it's going
2 to be located, would be adjacent to Sabal Palms,
3 which we do not agree with another apartment
4 complex coming in of the sort.
5 The street is also not strong enough to
6 handle the excess traffic that -- the entrance
7 that they want to come in from Sessions Lane, it
8 is not a strong street. It can't handle that
9 traffic. In fact, two cars can't safely come
10 by. It's not a complete double street. The
11 street is not even wide enough for two cars to
12 come, you know, without -- and we have -- and we
13 don't have sidewalks.
14 And -- well, that's my complaint, is that I
15 think that we would -- I mean, we have a -- it's
16 a neighborhood of older people, and we really
17 don't want the extra work -- the extra things
18 going on in our neighborhood, and we don't want
19 the crime rate.
20 And one of our concerns was -- is that all
21 the landowners are not receiving mail. Where
22 there are a lot of changes -- because a lot of
23 people seem to find our neighborhood as, I
24 guess, inexpensive to them, but then they earn
25 good money when they get in there.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 But we as neighbors do not tend to receive
2 mail from the planning area when -- whenever
3 there's something new going on in our
4 neighborhood, and that's one of my concerns
5 tonight, is -- because I'm a homeowner on
6 several streets in the area, and I, for one, did
7 not even receive mail concerning this rezoning
8 in the neighborhood, and we'd like to address
9 that. I guess that goes to the planning
10 committee.
11 But that's what I would like to discuss,
12 and thank you for your time.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 Ms. Lee, Councilwoman Lee has a question
15 for you.
16 MS. L. LEE: Yes.
17 MS. LEE: Good evening.
18 Have you talked to Councilman Jones, Warren
19 Jones?
20 MS. L. LEE: I didn't talk to him, but our
21 president of our committee, Ms. Brown -- Joyce
22 Brown talked to him.
23 MS. LEE: And what is his position on this,
24 do you know?
25 MS. L. LEE: I'm not sure. I'm really not
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1 sure of this, but he understands that we don't
2 approve of it.
3 MS. LEE: Okay. I would -- well, I don't
4 know. We might vote on it -- is it up for a
5 vote?
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: To deny.
7 MS. LEE: Yeah, and it's a move to deny it
8 anyway, so . . .
9 I was just curious.
10 As it relates to, Mr. Chairman, her
11 question relative to notification -- through the
12 Chair to Mr. Crofts, is there a requirement that
13 signs be placed within 350 feet of the proposed
14 site?
15 MR. CROFTS: You are correct, ma'am, there
16 is.
17 MS. LEE: Did that occur, John?
18 MR. CROFTS: Yes, it did.
19 MS. LEE: We know that the signs are out
20 there.
21 Okay. Did you-all see any -- what color?
22 Orange --
23 MS. L. LEE: The orange -- we see the sign
24 now, but I'm saying, you know, prior to that --
25 I mean, neighbors -- a lot of the people didn't
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1 get --
2 MS. LEE: Do you live within 300 feet of
3 the site where they want to put the apartments?
4 MS. L. LEE: Yes, I do.
5 MS. LEE: Okay. What is your name again?
6 MS. L. LEE: Lorraine McKinney Lee
7 (phonetic).
8 MS. LEE: Is her name on that list, through
9 the Chair?
10 A lot of times people might be a little bit
11 out -- and the requirement is 350, but if you
12 are within that -- if you are within that --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Boundary.
14 MS. LEE: -- boundary --
15 MS. L. LEE: I did receive a letter last
16 week concerning the -- I think there's a church
17 that's coming up on Jernigan. I received a
18 letter referring to that, but concerning this
19 property, I did not receive any mail.
20 MS. LEE: And you feel pretty secure that
21 it's -- did you find it?
22 MR. KELLY: There was a notice that was
23 sent to a Linda Lee at 2033 Caljon Road.
24 MS. L. LEE: That's my neighbor.
25 MR. KELLY: Okay.
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1 MS. L. LEE: I'm Lorraine M. Lee.
2 MR. KELLY: Have you moved there recently
3 or is this --
4 MS. L. LEE: No. I've been there a
5 lifetime.
6 MS. LEE: How long have you been there?
7 MS. L. LEE: Well, it's a family -- it's
8 family property, so I've been there over
9 40 years.
10 MR. CROFTS: What's the address?
11 MS. L. LEE: There should be -- well,
12 actually I have two addresses that I pay taxes
13 on. I have 2165 Caljon Road and I have 2174
14 Thomas Court.
15 MR. KELLY: There are about 60 property
16 owners that I can see that were noticed, but I
17 don't see your name on the list.
18 You may be just outside the 350. Three
19 hundred and fifty feet is like four lots maybe,
20 four or five lots away.
21 MS. LEE: Ma'am -- through the Chair, let
22 me ask a question.
23 When he read one of the addresses to you
24 and you stated that that particular person was
25 your neighbor, are you across the street or next
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1 door?
2 MS. L. LEE: No. I'm down the street
3 further from her.
4 MS. LEE: Well, what he's saying probably
5 is indicative of why that occurred.
6 MS. L. LEE: Okay, then. All right. Well,
7 I'll accept that.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Lee.
10 Next is Maurice Williams, followed by Ruby
11 Williams.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming down
16 for the second time to the podium.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Maurice
18 Williams. I live at 2508 Johnson Avenue.
19 I'm also a member of the Pine Forest Action
20 Committee. I've been living in this
21 neighborhood all my life, 58 years. I'm a
22 working citizen. I've been working since I've
23 been 16 years old.
24 I strongly oppose this rezoning. First of
25 all, it's going to bring a lot more traffic into
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1 our neighborhood. We have a school and a park
2 about two or three blocks down the street from
3 this particular area. And it's also going to
4 bring increased drugs and crime in the
5 neighborhood.
6 Currently, the housing partnership is
7 building about 40 new single-family homes. If
8 he's wanting to build something, why don't he
9 fall in line with those instead of the -- a
10 multifamily home?
11 We would strongly oppose this. We had more
12 members here tonight, but some of them had to
13 leave for different reasons. We also have the
14 pastor with us from our church and our assistant
15 pastor.
16 We would like to keep our neighborhood
17 safe. And it's bad enough as it is, but we
18 would like to keep it like it is, improved and
19 not go worse.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Our last speaker is Ms. Ruby Williams.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
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1 My name is Ruby London Williams. I live at
2 3726 Pine View Circle, Jacksonville, Florida
3 32207.
4 I'm one of the pastors here on Southside,
5 and I oppose this rezoning here at Sessions Lane
6 and Old St. Augustine Road because I'm concerned
7 about the high quality of the traffic in that
8 area. Not only that, I'm concerned about -- if
9 it should come to be, about -- will it have a
10 contention [sic] pond or will it -- will the
11 ditches around in the area be used for that?
12 Because as we see, I am a pastor in a
13 church like 300 feet over because we got a
14 letter, and there is no fencing and it's open,
15 and I feel the concern about the children that
16 we have and how, you know, it would look in the
17 area. And we don't need that right now, at any
18 time, to come about.
19 And I'm also concerned about the welfare of
20 our young children in that area because of the
21 high quality of crime, as she has already said,
22 Ms. Lee, and Deacon Maurice Williams has already
23 said. So we're looking at betterness instead of
24 worse. And if we had that zoning, it will make
25 things much worse than we have. And things are
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1 getting better during -- as the police
2 department is aiding us and bettering our
3 conditions, and we want it to stay that way.
4 So thank you so much.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close the
7 public hearing on 2007-1010.
8 Let's go to the Planning Department to hear
9 their input.
10 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
11 To the Chair, rezoning R-2007-1010 is a
12 conventional rezoning, requesting to go from the
13 current RMD-A, which only allows single-family
14 dwellings, to an RMD-B zoning district, which
15 could allow up to quadriplexes being developed.
16 It's a rather large property. We found it
17 to be a spot zoning in this instance. The
18 surrounding and predominant character is all
19 detached single-family dwellings.
20 Additionally, it did not meet any
21 locational criteria of the operative provisions
22 of the comp plan with regards to access. It
23 would be essentially a means of providing access
24 through a local road to multifamily, which would
25 be inconsistent with the comp plan; therefore,
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1 the Planning Department is recommending denial.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
3 MS. LEE: Move to deny.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to deny
6 2007-1010.
7 Seeing no discussion on the denial, open
8 the ballot, record the --
9 MS. ELLER: If I could just --
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller.
11 MS. ELLER: I'm sorry.
12 If I could just -- through the Planning
13 Department, since the applicant is not here, if
14 they could just confirm on the record that the
15 applicant did receive a copy of the staff report
16 and that they were aware that there was a public
17 hearing and action that was going to be taken
18 tonight just so we can have it on the record.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I was getting ready to do
20 that in just a minute, I'm sure.
21 MR. KELLY: I did not have any direct
22 communication with the applicant. He was at the
23 Planning Commission meeting. And at the
24 beginning of every Planning Commission, they
25 state that the zonings, obviously, are subject
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1 to the additional LUZ meeting the following
2 week, and that was clearly stated at the
3 beginning of that meeting.
4 The applicant was there with a
5 recommendation of denial. And with the denial
6 at Planning Commission, I just didn't think he
7 would think it would go through at this level,
8 so that's my assumption on why he's not here.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
10 Also, I verified with Legislative Services
11 that he paid his advertising fees today, so he
12 was aware that this item was coming up and
13 action could not be taken until such fees were
14 paid. So I'm pretty sure that he was aware of
15 that.
16 And also, just for the record, we do not
17 have any record of him contacting our office
18 asking for a deferral or anything else,
19 so . . .
20 We have moved to deny. So if you're
21 supporting the denial, you would push the green
22 button.
23 Let's open the ballot and record the vote.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
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1 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
7 denied 2007-1010.
8 Item 31, 2007-1011. We'll open that public
9 hearing.
10 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it to
11 December the 4th with no further action.
12 Committee members, we're on the top of
13 page 10, item 2007-1012. We'll open that public
14 hearing. We have one speaker, Mr. Eric
15 Bradstreet.
16 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
19 I'm Eric Bradstreet, representing the
20 owner, Pallara Realty, LLC. My address is 10110
21 San Jose Boulevard.
22 And basically we just -- we have read the
23 staff report and we agree with the conditions,
24 and I'm open for any questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You are going to be
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1 disappointed that there are none, I'm sure.
2 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close
3 that public hearing.
4 Could I have a motion on the amendment?
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
6 MR. SHAD: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
8 on the amendment.
9 I assume the amendment is to grant the
10 waiver; is that what -- we'll go to the Planning
11 Department, please.
12 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
13 Through the Chair, ordinance 2007-1012 is a
14 reduction in the required sign setback from
15 20 feet to 10 feet within the PUD ordinance
16 1998-593.
17 The staff has basically found that the
18 setback at 10 feet is consistent with the
19 established signage along this portion of
20 Atlantic Boulevard. Most of this is small
21 commercial office signage, in addition to that,
22 which also mitigates for the proximity to the
23 right-of-way.
24 And so staff is recommending approval
25 subject to the conditions in your staff report,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 and I can read those on the record.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
3 MR. KELLY: It's one condition, that the
4 sign shall not exceed 32 illuminated square feet
5 per side, 8 feet in height, and the wall signage
6 shall not exceed 20 illuminated square feet.
7 MS. LEE: Move that.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: It's moved.
9 Mr. Bradstreet, do you agree with that?
10 MR. BRADSTREET: Yes, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no discussion on the
14 amendment, all in favor signal by saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
19 MS. LEE: Move the bill as amended.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Second?
21 MR. SHAD: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have a motion
23 and second on 2007-1012 as amended.
24 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
25 record the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2007-1012.
10 Thank you very much.
11 MR. BRADSTREET: Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Item 33, 2007-1013. We'll
13 open that public hearing.
14 Seeing no --
15 MS. LEE: Move the amendment.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: We have two speakers. We
17 have Sally Lott and Rob Hoenshel.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Like a farmer on the
20 beach, hoe and shell.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Could I get this
23 displayed?
24 I have a quick question before I get
25 started. Should the school have received a
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1 staff report?
2 MR. CROFTS: Which school?
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hendricks Day School.
4 I'm the agent for the applicant. Sally
5 Lott is the head of the school, and I've got her
6 file. She became ill and had to leave.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Rob, would you give your
10 name and address for the record?
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sure.
12 Rob Hoenshel, 1384 San Mateo Avenue,
13 Jacksonville, Florida 32207.
14 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair, I guess the
15 report was sent to Sally Lott, HDS of Jax, 1824
16 Dean Road.
17 Is this for -1013?
18 MR. HOENSHEL: Yes.
19 MR. KELLY: Okay. Correct.
20 MR. HOENSHEL: Okay. She doesn't have that
21 in her file.
22 The picture that -- part of my being here
23 is to clarify the understanding of what we were
24 proposing. The community association initially
25 didn't like what the school was proposing due to
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1 a misunderstanding that they thought the
2 existing sign that was there was going to be
3 reused and redone into a different appearance.
4 They didn't like the idea that it was right on
5 the property line.
6 The existing sign actually extends and
7 cantilevers out over the property line and into
8 the right-of-way. The school is looking to just
9 (inaudible) this sign. It's larger than is
10 allowed for the current zoning.
11 The photo rendering that you have in front
12 of you was done when the school was purchased.
13 They were looking to plan improvements, get cars
14 off of the -- off of Dean Road, and created the
15 driveway that you see there on the left-hand
16 side, sort of going into the corner of the
17 soccer field.
18 The two driveway openings that are existing
19 in front of what was the previous sanctuary for
20 Southside Baptist Church that was at this
21 location, that the school purchased in 2005, is
22 used for bus drop-off and pick-up.
23 What we are looking to -- requesting -- and
24 we have two options in our application -- is to
25 take a one-sided sign that has two faces, and --
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1 that's the most visible sign for traffic looking
2 for -- to find the school, and what we want to
3 do is to take those two, put them on both sides
4 of the entrance to the school for parents to
5 come, not for pick-up and drop-off, where they
6 use that left entrance, but during the day to
7 find the school and the office, which is located
8 there in the middle -- or to the left of the --
9 of that driveway in the middle that works to the
10 large parking lot in front of the gym.
11 We did meet with the community neighborhood
12 association and Chris Monte (phonetic) with the
13 CPAC, explained to him what we were proposing to
14 do. The neighborhood group got on the phone,
15 got their quorum, and got approval of sending
16 their letter that was sent on the 15th of
17 October and sent a letter to the committee for
18 the -- on the 22nd -- or the 23rd, for that
19 meeting.
20 And then I'm here to answer any questions
21 that you may have.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
23 Seeing no questions, that public hearing
24 is -- no, I'm sorry. You said Ms. Sally Lott
25 has left, correct?
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1 MR. HOENSHEL: Yes. She became ill.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll verify for the record
3 she was here in support of the bill.
4 The public hearing is closed on -10 --
5 MS. LEE: Move the amendment.
6 MR. SHAD: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a -- do
8 I have a second on the amendment?
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
11 amendment to 2007-1013.
12 All in favor of the amendment signal by
13 saying aye.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Planning Department, you
18 didn't put an amendment? I'm sorry.
19 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
20 There's one condition, stating the sign
21 shall be relocated if there's a roadway
22 expansion of Dean Road, adjacent to the property
23 and/or the creation of a sidewalk along the west
24 side of Dean Road. At that point, then you'd
25 have to locate the sign.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. HOENSHEL: There would be no problem
2 with that.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The applicant
4 supports that, so we'll -- let's revote on the
5 amendment based on that information.
6 All in favor signal by saying aye.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
12 MS. LEE: Move the bill as amended.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
14 2007-1013 as amended.
15 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
16 record the vote.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 approved 2007-1013.
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1 Thank you.
2 MR. HOENSHEL: Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Item 34, 2007-1014. We'll
4 open that public hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
6 hearing. And we have an indication of a motion
7 to withdraw.
8 Do we have that?
9 MS. LEE: Move to withdraw.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
12 to withdraw 2007-1014.
13 If there's no discussion from the Planning
14 Department, we will open the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
18 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
24 withdrew 2007-1014.
25 Item 35, 2007-1015. Opening that public
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1 hearing. We have a speaker, Mr. Ben Parry.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
5 Ben Parry, 7800 Gate Parkway, representing
6 the applicant, Pan Am Investments.
7 Thank you for your endurance tonight, and
8 I'm here to answer any questions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. We appreciate
10 you being here.
11 I don't see any questions or any further
12 speakers, so we'll close that public hearing.
13 Do we have a motion on the bill?
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: So moved.
15 MR. SHAD: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
17 2007-1015.
18 Does the Planning Department have any input
19 on this bill?
20 MR. CROFTS: We're in support, land use,
21 yes, sir, as shown in our support and on the
22 record.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no questions
24 or discussion, let's open the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 just approved 2007-1015.
10 MR. PARRY: Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: We are now on page 11. Hard
12 to be believe, I know. Item 36, 2007-1016.
13 We'll open that public hearing.
14 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
15 hearing.
16 MS. LEE: Move it.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
19 on -1016.
20 Does the Planning Department have any input
21 on -1016?
22 MR. CROFTS: (Shakes head.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no input and no
24 discussion, we will open the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: You just approved 2007-1016.
9 Item 37, 2007-1017. We'll open that public
10 hearing. We have several friends that would
11 like to discuss this with us. We will begin
12 with Mr. Mack McCuller.
13 (Mr. McCuller approaches the podium.)
14 MR. McCULLER: Mack McCuller, 225 Water
15 Street, representing the applicant.
16 If there is no opposition, I will just take
17 questions from the --
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I have three speakers'
19 cards, all in support of this bill.
20 MR. McCULLER: I'll be happy to take
21 questions.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. McCuller.
23 I also have Jack Meeks.
24 MR. McCULLER: He doesn't need to speak.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Meeks is
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1 here in support of the bill.
2 I also have Anthony -- and, Anthony, I'm
3 not going to pronounce --
4 MR. McCULLER: Jarzyna. He had to leave.
5 He was the architect.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: And he was here originally
7 to support the bill.
8 MR. McCULLER: Indeed he was.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
10 Mr. McCuller.
11 Seeing no other speakers, we'll close that
12 public hearing.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
14 MR. SHAD: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a
16 second on 2007-1017.
17 Does the Planning Department have any input
18 on this bill?
19 MR. CROFTS: No.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no input from the
21 Planning Department or conversations from the
22 council members, we will open the ballot and
23 record the vote.
24 MR. McCULLER: Mr. Chairman, there were
25 conditions that need to be --
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1 MR. CROFTS: (Inaudible.)
2 MR. McCULLER: I'm sorry. I thought we
3 were -- I'm sorry.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Were there conditions --
5 MR. McCULLER: No.
6 MR. CROFTS: We're doing the land use now.
7 That will come next.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: You want us to put some
9 conditions on the land use, Mr. McCuller?
10 Open the ballot, record the vote.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
13 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
19 approved 2007-1017.
20 Item 38, 2007-1018. We'll open that public
21 hearing, and Mr. McCuller is still here.
22 MR. McCULLER: Mack McCuller, 225 Water
23 Street, representing the applicant.
24 Again, here to answer any questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no questions
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1 and no further speakers, we will close that
2 public hearing.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
4 MR. SHAD: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
6 amendment.
7 Let's go to the Planning Department to hear
8 about that amendment.
9 MR. CROFTS: The amendment consists of six
10 conditions. They are as follows:
11 Number 1, "The developer shall be subject
12 to the original legal description dated February
13 7th, 2007."
14 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
15 to the original written description dated
16 February 7th, 2007."
17 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
18 to the original site plan dated December 12th,
19 2006."
20 Number 4, "The required transportation
21 improvements shall be made in accordance with
22 the Traffic Engineering memorandum dated October
23 2nd, 2007, or as otherwise approved by the
24 traffic engineer and the Planning and
25 Development Department."
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1 And we've added to that, "to allow for a
2 one-way drive."
3 Number 5, "Parking in the front yard shall
4 be prohibited."
5 Number 6, "New parking areas shall have a
6 pervious surface. No additional impervious
7 surfaces shall be allowed."
8 That's it. Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. McCuller, do you agree
10 with those conditions?
11 MR. McCULLER: We do, sir, yes.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you.
13 Seeing no discussion on the amendment, all
14 in favor signal by saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
20 MR. SHAD: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
22 2007-1018 as amended.
23 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
24 record the vote.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
8 approved 2007-1018.
9 MR. McCULLER: Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Item 39, committee members, 2007-1019.
12 We're going to open that public hearing. We
13 have one speaker on -1019, a Tommie -- is it
14 Lammer? Lampp.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Lampp (pronouncing).
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Lampp. No "e." I'm sorry.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Like the light.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
20 Tommie Lampp, 15729 Jim Court,
21 Jacksonville, 32218.
22 I'm just here to answer any questions.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no questions
24 for the speaker, we'll close that public
25 hearing.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
2 MR. SHAD: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
4 on -1019.
5 Any discussion from the Planning
6 Department?
7 MR. CROFTS: We support, Mr. Chairman.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing support
9 from the Planning Department and no discussion
10 from the committee members, you know what?
11 Let's open that ballot and record that vote.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
14 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
20 approved 2007-1019.
21 Item number 40, 2007-1020. We're going to
22 open that public hearing.
23 Seeing no speakers, we're going to close
24 that public hearing.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
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1 MR. SHAD: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
3 on -- motion and a second on 2007-1020.
4 Any input from the Planning Department?
5 MR. CROFTS: We support, Mr. Chairman and
6 committee.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Seeing no other discussion, let's open the
9 ballot and record the vote.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
12 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved 2007-1020.
19 Item number 41, 2007-1021. We'll open that
20 public hearing. We have two speakers, please.
21 We have Fred Singletary and -- is it Rahul
22 Patel?
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Rahul.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll get it in a minute.
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1 Go ahead.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Fred
3 Singletary. I reside at 9071 Rainbow Lane,
4 Jacksonville, Florida. ZIP code is 3220 [sic].
5 I would just hope the council will pass
6 this for me because we need the --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Slide over and speak into
8 that microphone for me. You can pull it down.
9 MR. SINGLETARY: I would appreciate if the
10 council would pass this because we need the
11 parking area because the Westside, where I live,
12 is really growing up, and we having a problem
13 with the parking.
14 And plus, our people that deliver our
15 supplies to the store having to back out onto
16 the highway, and it's a safety problem too. And
17 it's -- like I said, we need the parking area
18 because it's growing so fast around there.
19 I'd appreciate if y'all would pass it.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
21 MR. SINGLETARY: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is Rahul
23 Patel.
24 I'm sorry. Mr. Singletary, Councilwoman
25 Lee has a question.
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1 MR. SINGLETARY: Yes, ma'am.
2 MS. LEE: Mr. Singletary, it's in the
3 district that I represent, and I know that I've
4 been behind on my calls or anything. Did you
5 call me about this or --
6 MR. SINGLETARY: No, ma'am. I haven't
7 called you.
8 MS. LEE: Okay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
10 MR. SINGLETARY: Rahul said --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Questions only?
12 MR. SINGLETARY: He don't want to speak if
13 he don't have to.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. He's here in
15 support and available for questions only.
16 All right. Seeing no further speakers,
17 we'll close that public hearing.
18 Do I have a motion on the bill?
19 MR. SHAD: Move the bill.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
22 on 2007-1021.
23 Seeing no discussion on the bill, open the
24 ballot, record the vote.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
8 approved 2007-1021.
9 MR. SINGLETARY: Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Item number 42 is a
11 companion rezoning, 2007-1022. We'll open that
12 public hearing.
13 We have Mr. Singletary and Mr. Patel to
14 speak, but they're probably here for questions
15 only. Is that -- on the zoning bill, are you --
16 MR. SINGLETARY: No. We appreciate it.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
18 MR. SINGLETARY: Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
20 They're both here in support of it and
21 available for questions only.
22 Seeing no questions -- Councilmember Lee.
23 MS. LEE: Would somebody break it down to
24 me, please.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me go ahead and close
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1 the public hearing and now go to the Planning
2 Department to --
3 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
4 This is based on the land use. This is a
5 conventional rezoning to go along with the NC
6 land use to a commercial neighborhood zoning.
7 I just wanted to point out for the
8 record -- and there were some comments that were
9 brought up at Planning Commission regarding the
10 parking of certain types of vehicles. And based
11 on the staff photographs that were in the staff
12 report, it looked as if there were, like, a
13 truck rental U-Haul company, and those types of
14 vehicles would not be permitted to be parked
15 within that zoning district.
16 So regardless of the NC and the land use of
17 the zoning, what may be occurring on that
18 property is -- is illegal today, is going to be
19 illegal tomorrow after the zoning is approved.
20 But we felt the compatibility with the
21 existing neighborhood commercial abutting
22 properties to the south and across the street,
23 we thought the CN was an appropriate location
24 for this.
25 MS. LEE: So they're illegally parking
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1 vehicles there now?
2 MR. KELLY: Based on the staff pictures on
3 page 5 of the staff report, that was something
4 that I had picked up on at the Planning
5 Commission meeting. That would not be a
6 permitted use, but the development of that
7 property, with CN uses, would be.
8 MS. LEE: Do I need to add something in
9 there to make sure that they don't continue this
10 and this doesn't occur?
11 MR. KELLY: We can't condition a
12 conventional rezoning.
13 To my knowledge, there's been no CARE
14 complaints issued regarding the property, so --
15 MS. LEE: Let me make a comment.
16 Sir, are you aware that you are illegally
17 parking --
18 MR. SINGLETARY: Yes, ma'am.
19 At the last meeting they told us to move
20 them. They are being moved. Some of them is
21 already been moved, and they just -- I think
22 there's about one more on there they got to
23 move, and that's a little utility trailer.
24 MS. LEE: Okay. Well --
25 MR. SINGLETARY: But he knows it. He's
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1 moving them.
2 MS. LEE: Okay. I would suggest that
3 you-all expedite that as soon as possible.
4 MR. SINGLETARY: All right. Appreciate
5 it.
6 MS. LEE: Okay.
7 MR. SINGLETARY: Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
9 Lee.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
11 MR. SHAD: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
13 2007-1022. I don't see any discussion, so let's
14 open the ballot, record the vote.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
17 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: We just approved 2007-1022.
23 Item 43, 2007-1023. We'll open that public
24 hearing. We have one speaker, a Richard
25 Kravitz.
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1 (Mr. Kravitz approaches the podium.)
2 MR. KRAVITZ: That would be me.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, sir.
4 MR. KRAVITZ: Richard Kravitz, 10250
5 Normandy Boulevard, for the applicant.
6 The first part is a land use, on -1023,
7 then -24 is a subsequent rezoning.
8 We have worked very closely with the
9 district councilman. We have his approval. We
10 have the approval of the Planning Department and
11 Planning Commission and every planning policy
12 and committee you could think of, including the
13 southeast whatever.
14 I'm only kidding. It's getting late.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: It is getting late, and I
16 appreciate you being here.
17 I have no questions for you, so if there's
18 no further speakers, that public hearing is
19 closed.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move it.
21 MS. LEE: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
23 2007-1023.
24 Seeing no discussion, open -- does the
25 Planning Department have any input? Not on the
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1 land use I wouldn't think.
2 MR. CROFTS: No, sir, other than we support
3 this as well as the companion rezoning.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot and record
5 the vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
8 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 approved 2007-1023.
15 Companion bill 2007-1024. Open that public
16 hearing. Richard Kravitz is here on that one as
17 well.
18 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you.
19 Richard Kravitz, 10250 Normandy Boulevard,
20 for the applicant.
21 This is the second part -- this is the
22 rezoning for -- from RMD-MH to IL, approximately
23 3.95 acres.
24 Again, we have the district councilman,
25 worked very closely with him, and also it
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1 fulfills all the requirements of the comp plan,
2 and it's consistent with all the zoning in the
3 area and the future zoning to come.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kravitz.
5 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close
6 that public hearing.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
8 MR. SHAD: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
10 -1024.
11 The Planning Department has already issued
12 their approval. So seeing that and no further
13 speakers, open the ballot, record the vote.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
16 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
22 just approved the second of two bills that
23 Mr. Kravitz had --
24 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you very much.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: -- 2007-1024. Thank you.
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1 Item 45, 2007- --
2 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
3 MR. HARDEN: How does he know it's
4 consistent with future zonings to come?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: 2007-1036. Open that public
6 hearing.
7 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
8 Boulevard.
9 This is a zoning to do what the bill says.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: I need your card.
11 MR. HARDEN: I filled out a card. I'll
12 fill out another one.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Go ahead.
14 MR. HARDEN: This is a bill to do what the
15 bill says it's going to do.
16 This is an amendment -- this is an NOPC to
17 a DRI out on -- on Kernan Boulevard. It's the
18 subject of a PUD that's already been approved,
19 and this is an NOPC which removes that PUD from
20 the First Coast Tech Park to allow it to be a
21 freestanding PUD without the DRI requirements.
22 I'll be happy to answer any questions.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no questions, we'll
24 close that public hearing.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion on the
2 amendment.
3 Do I have a second?
4 MR. SHAD: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
6 on the amendment.
7 Let's go to the Planning Department and
8 hear about that amendment.
9 MR. HARDEN: The amendment is just a legal
10 description.
11 MR. CROFTS: The amendment, as indicated by
12 the applicant, is a deletion of 12.5 acres and a
13 revised legal to go along with that.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 MS. LEE: Move to deny.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: We already have a motion.
18 I'm sorry, you can't do that.
19 Seeing no further discussion on the
20 amendment, all in favor signal by saying aye.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move bill as amended.
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1 MR. SHAD: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
3 on 2007-1036 as amended.
4 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
5 record the vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
8 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 just approved 2007-1036.
15 Mr. Harden, thank you very much, and don't
16 forget my card for me, please.
17 MR. HARDEN: Thank you for your indulgence.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: We've already done 46.
19 Item 47, 2007-1047. We're going to open
20 that public hearing.
21 Seeing no speakers -- are we going to
22 continue that public hearing or close that
23 public hearing?
24 MS. ELLER: We'll be closing that public
25 hearing is the requested action of the
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1 committee. There will be a substitute
2 forthcoming, and the request then would be to
3 sub and rerefer, readvertise.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We're going to
5 close that public hearing with no further action
6 at this point.
7 Committee members, we are now on to our
8 semiannual land use amendments, starting on
9 item 48, 2007-1048. We'll open that public
10 hearing.
11 Seeing no speakers, continue that public
12 hearing, no further action.
13 Item 49, 2007-1049. Open that public
14 hearing. No speakers, no further action.
15 2007-1050. Open that public hearing. No
16 speakers, no further action.
17 2007-1051. No speakers, with no further
18 action.
19 We are now on page 15 of your agenda,
20 item 52, 2007-1052. No speakers -- open that
21 public hearing. No speakers, no further action.
22 2007-1053. Open the public hearing. No
23 speakers, no further action.
24 2007-1054. Open that public hearing. No
25 speakers, no further action.
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1 2007-1055. Open that public hearing.
2 Seeing no speakers, no further -- continue and
3 no further action.
4 We're now on page 16. Item 56, 2007-1056.
5 Open that public hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
7 public hearing, no further action.
8 2007-1057. Open that public hearing.
9 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
10 public hearing, no further action.
11 2007-1058. We'll open the public hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, no further action.
13 2007-1059. We'll open that public
14 hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue the
16 public hearing with no further action.
17 Committee members, we are now on page 17 of
18 your agenda, starting with item 60, 2007-1060.
19 Open that public hearing.
20 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
21 no further action.
22 2007-1061. We'll open that public
23 hearing.
24 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
25 no further action.
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1 2007-1062. Open that public hearing.
2 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
3 no further action.
4 And, finally, item 63, 2007-1063. Open
5 that public hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we will continue with
7 no further action.
8 We now turn to page 18 of your agenda.
9 Item number 64, 2007-1064. Open the public
10 hearing.
11 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
12 no further action.
13 Item 65, 2007-1065. Open that public
14 hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
16 no further action.
17 Item 66, 2007-1066. We'll open that public
18 hearing.
19 Seeing no speakers, continue it with no
20 further action.
21 And, finally, on the bottom of that page,
22 2007-1067. We'll open that public hearing.
23 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
24 no further action.
25 Committee members, we're on page 19,
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1 2007-1068. We'll open that public hearing.
2 No speakers, so we'll continue that with no
3 further action.
4 Item 69, 2007-1069. Open that public
5 hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
7 no further action.
8 Item 70, 2007-1070. We're just going to
9 defer that one.
10 Item number 71, 2007-1071. We're going to
11 open that public hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we are going to
13 continue with no further action.
14 We have arrived at page 20. Item 72,
15 2007-1072. We're going to open that public
16 hearing.
17 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
18 no further action.
19 Item 73, 2007-1073. Open that public
20 hearing.
21 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
22 no further action.
23 2007-1074. We'll open that public
24 hearing.
25 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it with
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1 no further action.
2 Item 75, lucky number 75, 2007-1075. We'll
3 open that public hearing.
4 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
5 public hearing with no further action.
6 We have arrived at the bottom of page 20,
7 2007-1076. We'll open that public hearing.
8 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
9 public hearing with no further action.
10 Committee members, we have now arrived on
11 page 21.
12 Item 77, 2007-1077, will be deferred.
13 2007-1078, we actually have a substitute on
14 that. Can I have a motion on the sub?
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: So moved.
16 MR. SHAD: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
18 on the substitute to 2007-1078.
19 Seeing no discussion on the substitute,
20 let's open the ballot -- all in favor of the
21 substitute signal by saying aye.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The substitute carries.
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1 We need a motion to rerefer --
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to rerefer as
3 substituted.
4 MR. SHAD: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to
6 rerefer as substituted.
7 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
8 record the vote.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
11 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: You just approved -- you
17 just substituted and rereferred 2007-1078.
18 Item numbers 2007-1079 and -1080 are both
19 deferred.
20 Please turn with me, especially you folks
21 in the audience, to page 22, item 81, 2007-1083
22 and -1084 and both deferred.
23 We have arrived at 2007-1085. I believe we
24 have an amendment.
25 MS. LEE: Move the amendment.
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1 MR. SHAD: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
3 on the amendment to -1085.
4 Seeing no discussion on said amendment, all
5 in favor signal by saying aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to rerefer.
11 MR. SHAD: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
13 to rerefer 2007-1085 to LUZ as amended.
14 Not a whole lot of discussion on that, so
15 let's go ahead and open the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
25 rereferred 2007-1085.
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1 -1086 and -1087 are both deferred.
2 Page 23, 2007-1088, it could be the item of
3 the evening. We will open that public hearing.
4 We have a Mr. Tom Ingram that has been with us
5 now for approximately six hours.
6 Welcome.
7 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
8 MR. INGRAM: Good morning.
9 Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue, Suite
10 400.
11 I'm here for any questions.
12 And I'd just like to know why Mr. Kelly has
13 sunglasses on. But other than that --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I can clarify that for the
15 record. His future's so bright he has to wear
16 shades.
17 Yeah, the sun is coming up by the time this
18 meeting ends.
19 Seeing no questions for the speaker, we'll
20 close that public hearing.
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a --
23 MR. SHAD: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: -- second to move 2007-1088.
25 Does the Planning Department have any input
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1 on this?
2 MR. CROFTS: The Planning Department
3 expresses its support of this rezoning.
4 And it is the first rezoning that has been
5 passed along to us from the Downtown Design
6 Review Board in substitute of the Planning
7 Commission pursuant to recent amendments of the
8 zoning code.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, congratulations
10 on approval of the first one if it makes it
11 through this committee.
12 MS. LEE: Move denial, then.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: We already have a motion.
14 I'm sorry.
15 I see no other speakers on the bill, so
16 let's open the ballot and record the vote.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 just approved 2007-1088, the first bill approved
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1 by the Land Use and Zoning Committee that came
2 out of the Downtown Design Review Board.
3 MR. INGRAM: Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: On item number 87 begins a
5 series of second and rerefers: 2007-1120,
6 -1121, -1122, -1123.
7 Page 24, the following items are second and
8 rereferred: 2007-1124 and -1125.
9 On item 93, 2007-1126, we have an amendment
10 that has been moved by Councilmember Yarborough
11 and a second --
12 MS. LEE: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: -- by Denise -- by
14 Councilwoman Lee.
15 MS. LEE: Denise is fine.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Denise is fine at
17 this hour.
18 MS. LEE: Well, she used to be fine.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no discussion on the
20 bill or other comments, all in favor signal by
21 saying aye.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to second and
2 rerefer.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a -- do
4 I have a second on the rereferral?
5 Actually, read second and rereferral.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Inaudible.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: We're going to put it on the
8 ballot since we amended it.
9 So do I have a second on that?
10 MR. SHAD: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
12 on the second and rereferral to LUZ.
13 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
14 record the vote.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
17 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've read
23 second and rereferred 2007-1126.
24 We are continuing with second and
25 rerefers -- rereferrals, excuse me: 2007-1140,
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1 -1141.
2 Page 25, the following items will be second
3 and rereferred: 2007-1142, -1143, -1146, -1183,
4 and -1184.
5 That concludes our agenda.
6 I do have a question for Mr. Kelly before
7 we adjourn.
8 I know when I was council president we did
9 a lot of work on the zoning code rewrite and
10 kind of lost its attention now. Where are we
11 and is there anything that we need to be paying
12 special attention to?
13 MR. KELLY: Well, we're kind of halfway
14 there, I think.
15 Generally speaking about the rewrite today,
16 it has kind of slowed down somewhat recently.
17 There's been numerous legislation adopted to
18 date with -- obviously, the transit-oriented
19 development legislation, the industrial
20 sanctuary legislation, and the industrial
21 rewrite, as well as the commercial rewrite, a
22 number of overlays, the off-street parking
23 regulations, and some of the airport zonings
24 that have been approved to date, so . . .
25 We do have quite a bit of legislation still
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1 to go. I know Councilman Fussell's committee is
2 still pursuing the residential rewrite.
3 Additionally -- and the landscape
4 ordinance.
5 And, additionally, Councilmember Mia Jones,
6 we will be working on the part 4, performance
7 standards, in addition to the definitions, which
8 we expect to get into ultimately towards the end
9 of the rewrite.
10 But in terms of priorities, I think, at
11 this point, we do -- we did have legislation
12 basically that was pending for the PUD ordinance
13 rewrite that was introduced by former
14 Councilmember Self and Copeland. And, at that
15 point, we were not in a posture to support it.
16 And I think that legislation, in addition to
17 part 13, signage legislation, that needs to be
18 amended and made consistent. I think probably
19 that should be our focus at this point.
20 I'd like to see the committees kind of
21 reorganize again and start getting involved and
22 having the -- you know, members of the public as
23 well and, obviously, the CPACs, and in addition
24 to the CPACs get the involvement of the Planning
25 Commission members that have been on there
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1 before, but it would be good to see the CPACs
2 get into the -- certainly PUDs and signage,
3 which are our biggest struggles that we deal
4 with on a daily basis.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, what I'll do is
6 I'll get with you and try to put a team together
7 and get with the council president and see if we
8 can't get something moving forward on the areas
9 that we need to focus on.
10 I appreciate that.
11 Seeing no further business for this
12 committee, I appreciate your sticking around,
13 and we are adjourned.
14 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
15 11:11 p.m.)
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 11th day of November, 2007.
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Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203