1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, November 18,


       7   2008, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        ART GRAHAM, Chair.

                STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.

      14        RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.

                RAY HOLT, Committee Member.

      15        DON REDMAN, Committee Member.



           ALSO PRESENT:


                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      18        SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

      19        FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

                SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

      20        MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.

                MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.


                                 -  -  -












           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   November 18, 2008                       5:05 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon, everybody.


       5             Let the record show that this is Tuesday,


       6        November 18, and I have about five minutes after


       7        5:00.  I have to apologize for being a little


       8        late.  I got caught in another meeting in my


       9        office.


      10             This is the Land Use and Zoning Committee


      11        meeting, and let's start over here with


      12        Mr. Crofts, and let's introduce ourselves.


      13             MR. CROFTS:  My name is John Crofts,


      14        Planning and Development Department.


      15             MR. HUXFORD:  Folks Huxford, Planning and


      16        Development Department.


      17             MR. AVERY:  Ken Avery, Planning and


      18        Development Department.


      19             MS. ELLER:  Shannon Eller, Office of


      20        General Counsel.


      21             MR. BROWN:  Councilman Elect Reginald


      22        Brown, District 10.


      23             MR. REDMAN:  Don Redman, Council District 4.


      24             MR. HOLT:  Ray Holt, District 11.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Art Graham, District 13.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JOOST:  Stephen Joost, Group 3


       2        at-large.


       3             MR. CLARK:  Richard Clark, District 3.


       4             MR. DAVIS:  Daniel Davis, concerned


       5        citizen.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilman Brown,


       7        congratulations and welcome.


       8             When is the swearing in?


       9             MR. BROWN:  The 25th.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The 25th.  Don't be in any


      11        rush.


      12             Mr. Davis, before we get started, is there


      13        something specifically you're here on?


      14             MR. DAVIS:  Well, I did come to hear the


      15        debate on -969.  I heard that there was a


      16        substitute.  I believe the president is


      17        supporting a sub on that.  And I'd love to


      18        listen in on the debate, maybe add something to


      19        it if necessary.


      20             MR. JOOST:  What page is it on?


      21             MR. DAVIS:  Twelve.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  -969, page 12.


      23             Committee Members, if I can get you to turn


      24        over to page 12, 2008-969.


      25             We do have a public hearing.  I'll open the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        public hearing.


       2             And seeing no speakers, we will close that


       3        public hearing.


       4             MR. HOLT:  Move the sub.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, I think we have an


       6        amendment.


       7             MS. ELLER:  That's the Fussell substitute.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  The Fussell substitute.


       9             MR. HOLT:  Move the Fussell substitute.


      10             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  The Fussell sub has been


      12        moved and seconded.


      13             Can we hear the Fussell sub?


      14             MS. ELLER:  Yes.  To the committee, the


      15        substitute makes about 20 different technical


      16        corrections, and they were identified through


      17        the Planning Department review.  They are


      18        technical in that they are correcting internal


      19        references, making sure that the changes we've


      20        made have been made throughout the zoning code.


      21        They do not change any of the substantive


      22        provisions in the bill that was originally


      23        filed.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is there -- can you give me,


      25        Mr. Kelly, a 50,000-foot brief overview of what





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        we've done with these residential changes?


       2             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.


       3             I've handed out a spreadsheet.  Essentially


       4        it goes over the new residential zoning


       5        districts and all the development standards.


       6             You'll see the matrix on that spreadsheet.


       7        What it did, for ease of terminology, it


       8        essentially renamed the zoning districts based


       9        on the required lot width, so you now have


      10        RLD-120, RLD-100, RLD-90, -80, -70, et cetera.


      11             Additionally, the changes that were done


      12        were -- that are substantial were the


      13        setbacks -- side yard setback requirements have


      14        been amended for most of the districts.  In


      15        addition, some of the larger lot front yard


      16        setbacks were changed.


      17             Additionally, lot coverage percentages were


      18        increased.  We had found that with most of the


      19        new developments that we're seeing and the


      20        deviation requests that we have seen in the past


      21        that the -- I guess the strict enforcement of


      22        that open space provision, in light of


      23        developments now providing parks and recreation,


      24        which is the other component of this bill, that


      25        is mandated, required open space as part of a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        subdivision plat now, so we felt that the open


       2        space was being provided for in the common area


       3        and the parks as required in this new


       4        legislation and, therefore, it was justified to


       5        reduce setbacks and to increase lot coverages.


       6             The department did go through -- there's --


       7        I guess out of those 20-some-odd changes,


       8        there's about probably -- probably about three


       9        or four of those changes that the department


      10        doesn't support changing back in the Fussell


      11        amendment, and I'll just specifically reference


      12        one has to do with how we measure height of a


      13        buildings.


      14             That was recently changed within --


      15        citywide, under Part 16, in the adoption of the


      16        Riverside Avondale overlay dealing with how you


      17        measure the height, and it's currently from the


      18        required finished floor elevation.  The proposed


      19        Fussell amendment just makes it the finished


      20        floor elevation, so we have some concerns with


      21        that.


      22             Additionally, we felt --


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Hold on a second.


      24             What are your concerns on that?


      25             (Mr. Fussell enters the proceedings.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  The required finished floor


       2        elevation is essentially one foot above the base


       3        flood elevation.  It's the habitable space in a


       4        dwelling.  We felt that if you just use the


       5        finished floor elevation, there's no limit to


       6        the amount of fill that could go in to elevate a


       7        lot, which could otherwise elevate the house,


       8        and so we would --


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, we played that game at


      10        the beach before where people raised the house


      11        and put parking underneath, and so basically we


      12        did it from the crown of the road out front.


      13             But that's neither here nor there.


      14        Go ahead.


      15             MR. KELLY:  Yeah.  And so that would -- you


      16        know, that would be our concern, especially on


      17        smaller lots and compatibility and drainage


      18        issues in dealing with the height.  We've seen a


      19        lot of controversial AD requests in Mandarin and


      20        in the Heckscher Drive area.


      21             So we feel that the finished floor


      22        elevation -- they can still put, you know, the


      23        garages in that space that's not habitable


      24        space, but you could park a car down underneath


      25        the dwelling.  That doesn't count.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             But it's our fear that it's going to


       2        encourage, really, more tree removal by causing


       3        people to fill their lots higher and elevate


       4        unnecessarily the lot by, you know, providing


       5        more fill.  So we would request that the term


       6        "required finished floor" would be the essential


       7        starting point from how you measure height.


       8             Additionally, in the RLD -- what was the


       9        RLD-D is now the RLD-90 zoning district.  We


      10        felt that going down to five feet side yards --


      11        from seven and a half to five feet minimum was


      12        problematic.  We were fine with five feet on one


      13        side, but we feel that there's a lot of existing


      14        property owners and homes in the city and that


      15        they're kind of -- there's a lot of property in


      16        the city that is zoned RLD-D and we felt that, I


      17        guess, being able to reduce that setback to five


      18        feet on both sides of the lot would diminish the


      19        open space -- or perceived open space that


      20        residents think they have in their -- in those


      21        quarter-acre lot sizes, so we were opposed to


      22        that as well.


      23             Other than that, with the -- dealing with


      24        accessory structures, we have a ---- although


      25        this could be the subject of another bill at





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        another time, which is my understanding, it


       2        might actually go that route, but we have a


       3        written interpretation right now that we use in


       4        evaluating whether or not accessory structures


       5        are -- in residential districts, are incidental


       6        and residential in character.  And so we've got


       7        a 900 square foot limitation that we enforce


       8        right now through a written interpretation that


       9        was done and signed by the director back in


      10        June.


      11             So we're comfortable with removing it as


      12        part of this bill and would, you know, welcome


      13        any kind of feedback and changes.


      14             Those do become problematic in some of the


      15        areas when people are putting in large metal


      16        buildings and stuff in a small lot area and


      17        really close to the property line.  So we would


      18        be opposed to that at this point, but we are


      19        open to going through that at another time, so


      20        we wouldn't oppose it being struck for now.


      21             Additionally, the setbacks for accessory


      22        structures are actually being increased with the


      23        Fussell amendment from three feet, which is the


      24        current requirement, to five feet.  We felt that


      25        keeping it at three feet -- going to five feet





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        would make a lot of properties now nonconforming


       2        as a result of that change.


       3             We've permitted thousands of accessory


       4        structures at the three-foot setback, provided


       5        they are, obviously, incidental and residential


       6        in character and less than the 900 square feet.


       7        We feel the three feet is appropriate.


       8             The only other change dealt with dollar


       9        amounts, specifically with regards to new


      10        developments, and it's basically a fee per lot


      11        for recreation -- public recreation amenities


      12        and contributions to a park fund.  And that


      13        dollar amount as originally proposed was $250.


      14        However, recently the department got some input


      15        from a parks planner who did an analysis of


      16        basically what it cost per person per park, and


      17        that analysis came out to $485 per person based


      18        on the property appraiser's database information


      19        and a review of all the costs associated with


      20        the park amenities.


      21             And so we felt the 250 was a little low and


      22        we requested to double that to 500 per dwelling


      23        unit instead of the $250 per dwelling unit.


      24             So those are, I guess, the four or so


      25        changes that we would still have issue with at





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        this point.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, did any of this


       3        discussion come up when you guys were going


       4        through all this stuff?


       5             MR. KELLY:  The draft, I guess,


       6        legislation, it did come up.  And the draft


       7        legislation was made available to the department


       8        about a week and a half ago.  So we, as a


       9        department, went through it and some of the


      10        newer information.  Especially regarding the


      11        parks situation, that dollar amount was new


      12        information to us that we had gotten in front


      13        of, and so it wasn't actually before the


      14        committee.  The committee had stopped meeting


      15        some time ago.  In preparing the legislation,


      16        we're trying to work through it.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  So the dollar amount of the


      18        parks is the only thing that's new, that you've


      19        had new information from the time you guys


      20        agreed upon the draft?


      21             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We are on the Fussell


      23        amendment -- I'm sorry -- the Fussell sub.


      24             Either one of you guys want to throw


      25        anything in there?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. DAVIS:  I'll be more than happy to if


       2        you want.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.


       4             MR. DAVIS:  Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the


       5        opportunity.  And I, obviously, would yield to


       6        the president.


       7             MR. FUSSELL:  Mr. Chairman, I'll hear some


       8        today, and then maybe I can wrap up and bring


       9        some closure --


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      11             MR. FUSSELL:  -- to how long we've been


      12        down this path and how we got here and how good


      13        it is.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis.


      15             MR. DAVIS:  I think that this has been


      16        needed for a long time, Mr. Chairman.


      17             We've done -- as a group, done PUDs for a


      18        long time clearly because our code has not been


      19        up to speed.  I think that some of the arguments


      20        that the department is making, they don't hold


      21        water with me.  I would strongly encourage you


      22        to support the Fussell sub.


      23             I believe especially on the dollar value,


      24        now is not the time to increase fees on anybody


      25        who is thinking about trying to own a home or





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        purchase a home.  No matter what, I think that


       2        any time we have the opportunity to help someone


       3        get into a home at a more affordable price --


       4        and I think that President Fussell can give you


       5        some background.


       6             But from the reports that I received, the


       7        industry started off real low, the department


       8        started off high, and President Fussell kind of


       9        came somewhere in the middle.


      10             So hopefully you guys will support the


      11        Fussell sub because I think it's the exact right


      12        thing we need to do to help clean up a lot of


      13        the things that we should have done a long time


      14        ago.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Davis.


      16             President Fussell, you want to be on the


      17        sub or the bill?


      18             MR. FUSSELL:  Well, if you're going to


      19        change my sub in any way, I'd like to speak to


      20        the sub.  But if you're going to pass the sub


      21        the way it is, I'll wait till you get to the


      22        bill.  I was going to see if you had any debate


      23        with that.  If not --


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, hold on, President.


      25        We have Mr. Holt first.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. FUSSELL:  Yes, sir.


       2             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


       3             I have a couple of questions.  First to


       4        Mr. Kelly.


       5             Is this sheet accurate to the sub


       6        (indicating) other than --


       7             MR. KELLY:  There's two changes on that


       8        sheet that are not reflective of the


       9        substitute.  One has to do with our proposed


      10        side yard setbacks in the RLD-D, which is five,


      11        slash, combined 15 for side yards.  And then the


      12        other has to do with the potential for --


      13             MR. HOLT:  I don't really understand the --


      14             MR. KELLY: -- unlimited, I guess, height in


      15        the multifamily.  We wanted to cap that at


      16        60 feet in lieu of the one-to-one setback, which


      17        could go higher than that.


      18             MR. HOLT:  Those two I had some questions


      19        on.  I didn't really understand what you were


      20        saying on the RLD-D or -- and also I wanted to


      21        ask you about the -- the height and what you


      22        meant by the floor, the floor heights; the real


      23        height and then the floor height.  Can you


      24        explain that to me again?


      25             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Height today is measured based upon the


       2        FEMA's base flood elevation, and so they


       3        mandate -- the federal government, through FEMA,


       4        mandates a specific base flood elevation.  Any


       5        kind of habitable space that you want to build


       6        on that lot has to be elevated at least one foot


       7        above that base flood elevation, which is your


       8        required finished floor, and that's codified now


       9        with the adoption of the overlay.


      10             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  Stop at required finished


      11        floor.  What do you mean by required finished


      12        floor as opposed to finished floor?


      13             MR. KELLY:  Finished floor -- required


      14        finished floor is one foot above the base flood


      15        elevation.  If somebody decides to build six


      16        feet above the base flood elevation, then that


      17        elevates that house five more feet unnecessarily


      18        in our view.


      19             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  And that is important


      20        here because the maximum is five combined


      21        fifteen?


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  The maximum height


      23        is 35.


      24             MR. KELLY:  Thirty-five feet for the


      25        height.  The setbacks are the five combined





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        fifteen.  They're currently seven-and-a-half on


       2        each side.


       3             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  But the height is where I


       4        had my question.


       5             What was the change on that?


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, the different -- if I


       7        may, the difference is -- trust me.  Living at


       8        the beach, I've lived height.


       9             But the way it is right now, it is --


      10        wherever FEMA says the floor has to be, it's a


      11        foot above that is where basically you start


      12        counting.  And it's 35 feet from there up is


      13        where you cap the height.


      14             And -- is that what Mr. Fussell --


      15             MR. FUSSELL:  No.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.


      17             MR. DAVIS:  I'd love to maybe give a


      18        real-life example and see if Mr. Kelly


      19        understands my current situation.


      20             When I built my house, I built a stem wall


      21        and I went three blocks up.  Could have gone one


      22        block up and would have been fine.  Now, is it


      23        your opinion that that's going to change the


      24        drainage on my lot because I went three blocks


      25        up?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  Again, not with a stem wall,


       2        but the potential to add more fill to a lot to


       3        elevate a lot unnecessarily above what the FEMA


       4        people say is the required finished floor


       5        elevation.  So --


       6             MR. DAVIS:  I don't know -- I mean, I don't


       7        know where that information would come from, but


       8        I guess what you'd say at that point is if


       9        somebody decides to build their -- to start


      10        their finished floor elevation higher than


      11        what's required, you don't want them to have --


      12        they're going to be under a height restriction.


      13             MS. ELLER:  It's going to come off the top.


      14             MR. DAVIS:  Yeah.  Basically my house would


      15        have been three feet shorter than it is now.


      16             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      17             Well, right now it's measured from the


      18        elevation at the -- you know, at the --


      19        essentially at the front door of the elevation


      20        of that house.


      21             If you're in a flood-prone area and you


      22        have a six-foot base flood elevation and your


      23        habitable space doesn't count -- start until


      24        seven feet, the height is not being measured


      25        until you get to that seven foot and then you go





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        35 feet.  So you're technically a 42-foot-high


       2        house.  So that first -- you're not penalized


       3        for the first three or four feet on that in that


       4        situation.


       5             MR. DAVIS:  Okay.  Well, I think there's


       6        two things at play.  Number one, it's very


       7        expensive to do that and you're not going to see


       8        that.  It's very expensive to bring fill dirt


       9        in, and I think that's prohibitive, cost


      10        prohibitive.


      11             I think that -- I understand the concerns


      12        of the Planning Department.  I just think


      13        they're not -- that's not going to happen very


      14        often as far as what I can see in the industry.


      15             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  I had one situation like


      16        that out on Heckscher Drive, so that's the


      17        extent of my experience on that.


      18             My other question, Mr. Kelly, was about


      19        this $500 per home for the parks.


      20             Actually, that would be -- let me ask


      21        through the Chair to President Fussell, was it


      22        your hope that we would find a middle ground


      23        here at about 250 so that we would encourage


      24        people to pay into this fund?


      25             Because actually that's my hope.  I'd





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        rather have people pay into the fund and build


       2        our parks rather than having someone be required


       3        to have a little neighborhood park because I'm


       4        of the opinion that they never get used.


       5             MR. FUSSELL:  You're exactly right, through


       6        the Chair to Mr. Holt.  And the industry and the


       7        community started about $100 a lot.  The


       8        Planning Department, you know, was higher than


       9        that.  I think at one time actually higher than


      10        the 500.


      11             I came to the middle of the road because


      12        this doesn't affect every development.  It has a


      13        threshold, a ceiling.  You know, it's only up to


      14        the 99 units.  And the same exact reason was


      15        you've got all these tiny, little parks inside


      16        subdivisions that are not used or they're


      17        misused is what -- a lot of the feedback that I


      18        got.


      19             So this way you'd at least collect dollars


      20        on those smaller 25-, 40-lot subdivisions that


      21        could be used for your park that has a greater


      22        need.  And so that dollar figure rationale at a


      23        25- -- let's say a 30-lot subdivision is the


      24        dollar amount you're going to pick up for that,


      25        somebody would much rather pay that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             If you raise it up too high, they'll say,


       2        well, I'll go spend that amount, put this little


       3        park in and I'm done.


       4             So that was the encouragement of it.


       5        Let's -- I mean, how many times have you heard


       6        us propose to create a fee?  Well, I think this


       7        fee will actually accomplish some things,


       8        especially if your district councilmen and women


       9        that -- you know, have some park issues as the


      10        development starts to come back.


      11             So that was the intent of it, Mr. Holt.


      12             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  I'm good.


      13             Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  President Fussell, was that


      15        University of Georgia math where halfway between


      16        500 and 100 is 250?  I mean, I'm just kind of


      17        curious.


      18             MR. FUSSELL:  Fifty percent math or are you


      19        talking about the 42 to 10?  What are you


      20        talking about?


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Joost, nothing?


      22             MR. JOOST:  No.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We've moved the


      24        Fussell amendment -- I'm sorry -- the Fussell


      25        sub and second.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Any further discussion on the Fussell sub?


       2             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor signify by


       4        saying aye.


       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


       9        approved the sub.


      10             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as substituted.


      11             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      13        seconded as substituted.


      14             Mr. Fussell.


      15             MR. FUSSELL:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman,


      16        committee members and staff, everyone that's


      17        worked on this.


      18             This project has been around, I believe,


      19        since Mr. Corrigan was president and instructed


      20        us to start the rewrite, in which we spent many


      21        hours.  Most of the staff over from the Planning


      22        Department that's here -- Shannon Eller, and


      23        some of those that aren't here.  And I want to


      24        thank everybody for all the hard work, and a lot


      25        of the community that came, the industries that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        are represented.


       2             And it's a culmination of actually


       3        something that needed to be done for many years


       4        because of the way that -- the marketplace that


       5        we were dealing with -- really we were dealing


       6        with two years ago.


       7             Today we're dealing in an even totally


       8        different market from that, but I believe this


       9        will complement that market.  It will encourage


      10        that market, and it will simplify for the


      11        Planning Department, for the consumer that's out


      12        there, exactly what they can do with their


      13        property, how they can build their house, do


      14        their accessory structures, do their setbacks,


      15        development.  All that will simplify it, and


      16        that's one of the things we were trying to


      17        accomplish.


      18             But now, you know, most of the houses that


      19        are built on the marketplace -- the reason --


      20        when you get back to the five-foot setback on a


      21        90-foot lot, well, if you do a 15-foot combined


      22        side yard, you're not going to get people doing


      23        90-foot lots.  They're going to do an 80 because


      24        they can do a five foot.  So you won't get


      25        90-foot lots.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So, you know, there were a lot of things


       2        that took a lot of time and effort and a lot of


       3        input on that went into this.


       4             So, you know, the Planning Department was


       5        about 90 percent true, that some of these we


       6        just -- there were a couple of things I saw


       7        earlier when I saw the two pages that we hadn't


       8        discussed before, and that's why I wanted to


       9        minimize the sub to the things we'd actually had


      10        discussions on, come to some resolution on, and


      11        I think Mr. Kelly agreed.


      12             The same difference in the actual versus


      13        the elevation, the one foot above the flood


      14        elevation, is that there are some real life


      15        stories.  Most houses today are built with stem


      16        walls.  The majority that's built out there,


      17        they aren't monolithic slabs anymore where you


      18        would fill that whole site out.  You'd do it by


      19        stem walls.


      20             Not only that, most people aren't going to


      21        afford five foot of additional fill, and not


      22        only that, there's going to be some inspectors


      23        along the way or designers along the way that


      24        are not going to allow those kind of things to


      25        happen.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So, in realistic terms, you didn't want to


       2        have somebody draw their house down or cut --


       3        you get the 35 feet no matter where.  It's just


       4        where you measure from.


       5             And so in this day and time, you know, with


       6        the stem walls and those things, it makes more


       7        sense to me to take it from your actual -- what


       8        if you accidently filled six feet above it when


       9        they certified -- six inches above where you


      10        were, they certified it and you built your house


      11        to the 35 feet?  Well, you'd have to go get a


      12        variance or cut the top six inches off your


      13        house to meet that 35 feet.  And so it's not


      14        truly logical.  Let's go from what actually is


      15        in place there.


      16             So those are the kind of rationale that we


      17        used in, you know, trying to be practical with


      18        it and came up with something that actually


      19        could be applied and useful and to the


      20        marketplace.


      21             So I applaud everybody that worked on it.


      22        Like I say, it wasn't always a happy thing


      23        around there, but we came to that place and


      24        everybody worked on it.


      25             I know Mr. Deal (phonetic) and several





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        other people from the community that came to a


       2        lot of -- we actually had a lot of public


       3        meetings and discussions on this, so I


       4        appreciate your support and I'll be happy to


       5        field any more questions.


       6             But thank you for allowing me the


       7        opportunity to speak, Mr. Chairman.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, President


       9        Fussell, for coming down.


      10             Is there anything else to add to 2008-969?


      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      13        ballot.


      14             (Committee ballot opened.)


      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      21        the vote.


      22             (Committee ballot closed.)


      23             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      25        approved 2008-969.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Councilmember Davis, are you here for


       2        anything else other than that one?


       3             MR. DAVIS:  2008-910.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  2008-910.  We have a public


       5        hearing, so we will open that public hearing.


       6             And seeing no speakers, we will close that


       7        public hearing.


       8             The amendment.  Can I get someone to move


       9        the amendment, please?


      10             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.


      11             MR. HOLT:  Second.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment is moved and


      13        seconded.


      14             Can we hear the amendment?


      15             MS. ELLER:  Yes.


      16             To the committee, the amendment is


      17        contained in the Planning Department staff


      18        report, and it really is just technical changes,


      19        and I think Sean and John can go over them with


      20        you.


      21             It is, you know, defining who the chief is,


      22        cleaning up some cross-references and the like.


      23        I don't believe there's anything substantive in


      24        those changes.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  And, Ms. Eller, we'll take





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        your word for that.


       2             Any further discussion on the amendment?


       3             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, there's, I guess,


       4        some verbiage that we do need to strike if


       5        Shannon -- I just want to --


       6             MS. ELLER:  (Inaudible.)


       7             MR. KELLY:  Yes.  Okay.  Thank you.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Are we good on the


       9        amendment?


      10             MS. ELLER:  (Nods head.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor say aye.


      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      16        approved the amendment.


      17             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill as amended.


      18             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      20        seconded as amended.


      21             Any further discussion on the bill?


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  President Fussell.


      24             MR. FUSSELL:  Thank you again, Mr. Chairman


      25        and colleagues.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             This is another one of those bills that


       2        started two years ago.  And I appreciate, again,


       3        the same folks, all the hard work that was done.


       4             What this bill actually does too is


       5        simplifies that -- where we kind of codified the


       6        charter, which we say in some -- say


       7        definitively what we had to do and superseded


       8        our ordinance.  And our ordinance was saying


       9        some old things, so we kind of brought them all


      10        together where the developer, Joe Public, Joe


      11        Councilman, Joe Councilwoman, we could all


      12        understand and know that we were meeting the


      13        standard that's been laid out by the charter


      14        which superceded that.


      15             And so I appreciate everybody's hard work


      16        in that, but that will accomplish that goal and


      17        hopefully keep this moving forward.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      19             Mr. Kelly, we were asked -- I'm sorry --


      20        Mr. Holt asked me to ask you for the 50,000-foot


      21        overview of what we did.


      22             MR. HOLT:  On this one too.


      23             MR. KELLY:  I would, again, just reiterate,


      24        Council President Fussell -- about consistency,


      25        bringing consistency again with the charter





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendment.  That, and I'll defer to Shannon.  I


       2        think she's --


       3             MS. ELLER:  Sure.


       4             I actually worked on the bill more so than


       5        the Planning Department because the purpose was


       6        to make it consistent with the City of


       7        Jacksonville charter.


       8             As you all are aware, the charter has very


       9        specific requirements for tree mitigation and


      10        for preservation of trees, and what we found is


      11        that the ordinance code had some different


      12        requirements.  So anyone that was reading the


      13        ordinance code may look at it and think that


      14        they had met the minimum requirements for tree


      15        preservation and then find out in the charter


      16        that the trees either needed to be larger or


      17        there needed to be more of them or they needed


      18        to be a different type, so we made that


      19        consistent.


      20             We went through and codified about five or


      21        ten different policy memos that had been issued


      22        through our landscape shop over the past five or


      23        six years, so that way any -- again, any one


      24        practicing within the City of Jacksonville


      25        wouldn't have to look at the charter and the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        ordinance code and the stack of policy memos


       2        that you get when you go down to the Building


       3        Inspection Division.  So we felt like it was a


       4        cleanup.


       5             I will mention to the group that the


       6        Planning Department is working on another


       7        substantive study group on things like the


       8        xeroscape -- potential for xeroscape and


       9        potential for other types of irrigation


      10        standards that are not required by the Florida


      11        Statutes but that may be coming on line in the


      12        next few years.


      13             So there is another work group on those


      14        other issues, but this really was intended to be


      15        a technical cleanup for consistency with the


      16        charter.


      17             MR. HOLT:  Okay.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Anything else?


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      21        ballot.


      22             (Committee ballot opened.)


      23             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      25             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


       4        the vote.


       5             (Committee ballot closed.)


       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       8        approved 2008-910.


       9             MR. FUSSELL:  Mr. Chairman, colleagues,


      10        thank you very much.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. President,


      12        for coming down, and Councilman Davis.


      13             MR. DAVIS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let's go back to the


      15        beginning of the agenda.


      16             And I'm going to go through the agenda.


      17        I've learned after that last meeting, so I'll


      18        let you know all the bills that we won't take


      19        any action on so you're not sitting through this


      20        long LUZ meeting and you find out at the end


      21        that we're not doing anything to your bills.


      22             We'll start at the beginning of page 2.


      23        2005-1228 is being deferred.  2006-24 is being


      24        deferred.  2006-220 is being deferred.  2006-658


      25        is being deferred.  2007-581 is being deferred.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        2007-1086, we're going to take action on.


       2             Top of page 4.  2008-414 is deferred, -416


       3        is being deferred, -418 is being deferred, -517


       4        is being deferred, -541 is deferred, -542, -546,


       5        -549, all being deferred.


       6             Top of page 6.  -550, -552 being deferred,


       7        -562 is being deferred, -565 is being deferred.


       8             Top of page 7.  -716 we're taking action,


       9        -784 is going to be deferred, -799 is going to


      10        be deferred, -840 is going to be deferred.


      11        -852, we're taking action.  -853, we're taking


      12        action.  -854 is being deferred.  -855, we're


      13        taking action.


      14             Top of page 9.  -880 is being deferred,


      15        -889 is being deferred, -890 is being deferred,


      16        -891 is being deferred.


      17             Top of page 10.  -892 is being deferred.


      18        -893 is being deferred.  We've already done --


      19        we've already done -910.  -929 is being


      20        deferred, -930 is being deferred, -931 is being


      21        deferred, -933 we're taking action, -934 is


      22        deferred, -935 is deferred.


      23             Top of page 12,, -936 is deferred, -937 is


      24        deferred, we've done -969, -970 is being


      25        deferred.  -971 is an appeal, and that will be





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the last thing we take up on the agenda.


       2             -992 is -- we're taking action -- I'm


       3        sorry -- -972, we're taking action.  -973, we're


       4        taking action.  -974, we're taking action.


       5        -975, we're taking action.


       6             The last page, -984, -85, -86, -87, -88,


       7        -89 are all seconded and rereferred.


       8             Now that we all know what we're doing,


       9        let's go to the bottom of page 3, 2007-1086.


      10             We will open that public hearing.


      11             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      12        hearing and we have a substitute.


      13             MR. HOLT:  Move the sub.


      14             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub has been moved and


      16        seconded.


      17             Any discussion on the sub?


      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Can we hear the sub?


      20             MS. ELLER:  Yes.


      21             To the committee, the substitute is


      22        changing the application back to a request to go


      23        from commercial office to CCG-1 as it was


      24        originally filed.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any discussion?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you here for this


       3        bill?


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, sir.  I'm just here


       5        representing the property owner.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Oh, okay.


       7             Any discussion on the sub?


       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor


      10        say aye.


      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      15        approved the sub.


      16             MR. HOLT:  Move to rerefer.


      17             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded


      19        to rerefer back to LUZ as substituted.


      20             Any further discussion on the rereferral?


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      23        ballot.


      24             (Committee ballot opened.)


      25             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


       6        the vote.


       7             (Committee ballot closed.)


       8             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      10        approved -1086.


      11             All of 4 we're deferring.  All of 5 we're


      12        deferring.


      13             Page 6, 2008-562.  We'll open the public


      14        hearing.


      15             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      16        public hearing and take no further action.


      17             -565, we'll open that public hearing.


      18             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      19        public hearing and take no further action.


      20             Top of page 7.  2008-716.  We'll open that


      21        public hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      23        hearing.


      24             We have --


      25             MR. JOOST:  Move the amendment.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CLARK:  Second.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved


       3        and seconded.


       4             Can we hear the amendment, please.


       5             MR. CROFTS:  Yes.  The amendment is as


       6        follows:  There are five conditions.  They


       7        include:


       8             Number 1, "The developer shall be subject


       9        to the original legal description dated June


      10        1st, 2008."


      11             Number 2, "The developer shall be subject


      12        to the original written description dated


      13        August 8, 2008."


      14             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject


      15        to the revised site plan dated July 30, 2008."


      16             Number 4, "The required transportation


      17        improvements shall be made in accordance with


      18        the revised Development Services memorandum


      19        dated October 27, 2008, or as otherwise approved


      20        by the Planning and Development Department."


      21             Condition number 5, "The fence along the


      22        north and east property lines shall be


      23        100 percent opaque, vinyl, or vinyl composite.


      24        No chain-link fence with slats shall be


      25        permitted."





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Thank you.  That's it.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       3             Is the applicant here?


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  This -- was the applicant at


       6        the Planning Commission meeting?


       7             MR. KELLY:  Yes.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  And he was fine with these?


       9             MR. KELLY:  Yes.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.


      11             Any further discussion on the amendment?


      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor


      14        say aye.


      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      17             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      19        approved the amendment.


      20             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill as amended.


      21             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      23        seconded as amended.


      24             Any further discussion on the bill?


      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


       2        ballot.


       3             (Committee ballot opened.)


       4             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      10        the vote.


      11             (Committee ballot closed.)


      12             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      14        approved -716.


      15             -784, we'll open the public hearing.


      16             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      17        public hearing and take no further action.


      18             -799, we'll open the public hearing.


      19             We have a Sawyer, Valane.


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Valarie.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Oh, I'm sorry.  I couldn't


      22        read that.  It looked like an "n" rather than an


      23        "r-i."


      24             Come on down.


      25             (Audience member approaches the podium.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, your name and address


       2        for the record, and you have three minutes.


       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Valarie Sawyer, 4106


       4        Woodley Creek Road.


       5             I'm here for the property on 9821 Ribault


       6        Avenue.


       7             The property -- the land is actually deemed


       8        already as a CCG and has been a CCG since 1930.


       9        However, it was a vacant lot and a home has been


      10        built on it, which I have purchased.


      11             From the corner of Ribault Road to


      12        Lem Turner Road, all of those properties are


      13        commercial properties.  The properties from


      14        Ribault up to 2nd Avenue is also commercial


      15        properties, but it's vacant lots.  This


      16        property, that hasn't been actually -- anything


      17        actually hasn't been built on.


      18             However, when I purchased the property, it


      19        was a commercial property and I had -- did my


      20        research on the property.  But what I wasn't


      21        aware of, that when the realtor had purchased


      22        the property, in order for them to build a home


      23        there, they had to -- they had a grant.  And in


      24        order for them to build a home, they had to have


      25        a PUD placed on the property, so it's a PUD





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        placed in the middle of a commercial zoning


       2        area.


       3             I would like to -- the center that I'm


       4        opening -- I would like to open is Life Care


       5        Center, which is a nonprofit organization whose


       6        mission is to provide --


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, you need to pull that


       8        mic over a little because we can't hear you.


       9             Sorry.


      10             MS. SAWYER:  I'm sorry.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's all right.


      12             MS. SAWYER:  Is that okay?


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


      14             MS. SAWYER:  Whose mission is to provide


      15        quality care, support services, and educational


      16        needs to the elderly, veterans, and disabled


      17        within the city of Jacksonville.


      18             Being a registered nurse with experience


      19        and also a certified health care administrator,


      20        I have recognized a tremendous need within the


      21        community concerning housing for the elderly


      22        with health care needs.


      23             Many elderly require additional aid with


      24        medicine administration, specialty diets,


      25        dressing, and requirements for everyday living.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Nursing homes and specialty hospitals are


       2        options which are costly and at times very


       3        difficult to reside in due to bed availability


       4        and capacity issues.


       5             For this reason, I have requested a


       6        rezoning of 9821 Ribault Avenue to provide these


       7        services.  I do recognize, however, concerns


       8        within the community and reference to an


       9        assisted living center in the neighborhood.  I


      10        have been working diligently with the planning


      11        and zoning committee to ensure a safe


      12        environment within the property limits of 9821


      13        Ribault Avenue, to the citizens who live within


      14        the community.


      15             Also, under the direction of DOT,


      16        additional parking services will be added to


      17        modify traffic and prevent further -- any type


      18        of motor vehicle accidents.


      19             Overall, Life Care Center will be a


      20        rewarding aspect of Jacksonville by providing


      21        well-needed assistance to senior citizens,


      22        veterans, and disabled in the Jacksonville


      23        area.  Providing the rezoning for the above


      24        address will be a much needed commodity for the


      25        city of Jacksonville.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Thank you.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       3             Any other speakers?


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no other speakers,


       6        we'll continue that public hearing and take no


       7        further action.


       8             Ma'am, have you spoken with the district


       9        councilmember on this?


      10             MS. SAWYER:  Yes, I have.  We've spoken on


      11        several occasions.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      13             Let the record show that she said she has.


      14             The bottom of page 7, 2008-840, we've


      15        already deferred that.


      16             Top of page 8, -852.  We will open that


      17        public hearing.


      18             We have Myra Jays.


      19             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Jones.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Jones.  Sorry.  Come on


      21        down.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Name and address for the


      24        record, and you have three minutes, ma'am.


      25             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Myra Jones, 111 Riverside





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida 32202.


       2             I'm here on behalf of the YMCA in support


       3        of the project, acting as agent.


       4             I have no further comments except that I


       5        support it.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Hold on.  You may


       7        have to agree to the amendment.


       8             Are there any other speakers?


       9             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, we'll close


      11        that public hearing.


      12             Can we hear the amendment?


      13             MR. HOLT:  Move the amendment.


      14             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved


      16        and seconded.


      17             Can we hear the amendment?


      18             MR. CROFTS:  Through the Chair, or to the


      19        Chair, the amendment is strictly a technical


      20        amendment dealing with the legal description


      21        that was revised and submitted to us about the


      22        11th of November.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Sounds good


      24        enough.


      25             I'm sure you're fine with that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. JONES:  Yes, sir.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor of the


       3        amendment say aye.


       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved


       8        the amendment.


       9             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.


      10             MR. HOLT:  Second.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      12        seconded as amended.


      13             Any discussion on the bill?


      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      16        ballot.


      17             (Committee ballot opened.)


      18             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      23        the vote.


      24             (Committee ballot closed.)


      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


       2        approved 2008-852.


       3             Thank you, ma'am.


       4             MS. JONES:  Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  -853, we'll open that public


       6        hearing.


       7             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


       8        hearing.


       9             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and --


      11             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- seconded to withdraw with


      13        fees.


      14             Any discussion on the withdrawal?


      15             MR. CLARK:  Why are we returning the fees?


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  The question was, why are we


      17        returning the fees?


      18             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair to Councilman


      19        Clark, this rezoning was filed incorrectly.


      20        There's a -- it turns out, because of the


      21        individual lots that the applicant was proposing


      22        to rezone, that they're already lots of record


      23        and a single-family dwelling can be built on


      24        each of those lots currently.  And also with the


      25        residential rewrite going forward, it made it a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        moot point.  And so it was probably accepted


       2        prematurely and processed, but we didn't write a


       3        report, and so we're recommending withdrawal.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       5             Any other discussion on withdrawal with


       6        fees?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


       9        ballot.


      10             (Committee ballot opened.)


      11             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      16        the vote.


      17             (Committee ballot closed.)


      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      20        approved 2008-853 to be withdrawn.


      21             -854, we'll open the public hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      23        public hearing and take no further action.


      24             -855, we'll open the public hearing.


      25             We have M.A. -- you'll have to help me with





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that last name.


       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Shaikh, just like shake


       3        hands.


       4             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.  I didn't


       6        want to butcher it.


       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's all right.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Name and address for the


       9        record, please, and you have three minutes.


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is M.A. Shaikh.


      11        I live at 10102 Leisure Lane North.


      12             I'm representing the Islamic Center of


      13        Northeast Florida, the applicant.  I'm the


      14        vice-chairman, board of trustees.


      15             And I have a couple more photographs that


      16        I'm requesting the secretary to pass on to the


      17        members.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  You can go ahead.


      19             MR. SHAIKH:  The Islamic Center is a


      20        nonprofit 501C [sic] organization, and we


      21        received the 501(c)(3) status in 1979.  We


      22        purchased that property in 1982 and the Islamic


      23        Center has been there since then.


      24             We have a sign that is four feet inside our


      25        property line.  However, there is a 49-foot





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        right-of-way right in front of our property.


       2        That means the sign is 53 feet from the east end


       3        of St. Johns Bluff Road.


       4             As you will notice from the photograph,


       5        it's a small, modest sign just to identify the


       6        place of worship.  And our next-door neighbor


       7        has a huge sign, almost 18, 20 feet, to make it


       8        visible.  And, obviously, anything like that


       9        would be inappropriate to have in front of a


      10        place of worship.


      11             And that is why we requested that we be


      12        allowed to have this waiver, so that the sign


      13        could be four feet inside our property rather


      14        than ten feet.


      15             I'll be happy to answer any questions.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  So this waiver is going to


      17        move your sign closer to the street?


      18             MR. SHAIKH:  No.  The sign stays where it


      19        is.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  You just want to be able to


      21        leave the sign where it is?


      22             MR. SHAIKH:  Yes, sir.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Gotcha.


      24             MR. SHAIKH:  Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any further discussion?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Mr. Clark.


       2             MR. CLARK:  Thank you.


       3             Through the Chair, just further


       4        clarification.  This sign exists right now,


       5        today, just like it is, right?


       6             MR. SHAIKH:  Yes, sir.


       7             MR. CLARK:  And all we want to do is get


       8        the -- make it okay?


       9             MR. SHAIKH:  Absolutely, sir.


      10             MR. CLARK:  Okay.  Thank you.


      11             MR. SHAIKH:  Thank you.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Are we good?


      13             I need an amendment to either grant or


      14        deny.


      15             MR. CLARK:  Move to grant.


      16             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  There's been a move to grant


      18        the waiver and seconded.


      19             Any discussion on the amendment to grant


      20        the waiver?


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor


      23        say aye.


      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


       3        approved the amendment to grant the waiver.


       4             Now we're going to move the bill to grant


       5        the waiver.


       6             MR. CLARK:  Move it.


       7             MR. HOLT:  Second.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  And it's been moved and


       9        seconded.


      10             Any further discussion?


      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      13        ballot.


      14             (Committee ballot opened.)


      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      20        the vote.


      21             (Committee ballot closed.)


      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      24        approved -855 to grant the waiver.


      25             Sir, thanks for coming down.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. SHAIKH:  Thank you very much.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 9.  -880 we


       3        deferred.


       4             -889, we're going to open the public


       5        hearing.


       6             No speakers.  Close that public hearing and


       7        take no further action.


       8             -890, we'll open that public hearing.


       9             No speakers.  We will continue that public


      10        hearing and take no further action.


      11             -891, open the public hearing.


      12             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      13        public hearing and take no further action.


      14             Top of page 10.  -892, we will open that


      15        public hearing.


      16             We have a couple of cards.  Gary Crumley,


      17        followed by John.


      18             Come on down, John.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Well, good evening.


      21             John Reyes, 550 Water Street, Jacksonville


      22        Florida, 32202, representing Visit Jacksonville


      23        and the 378 partners that earn their living in


      24        tourism and hospitality each day.


      25             We are here as an industry to show our





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        support for cruise ship tourism and the cruise


       2        ship terminal.  Our basis is really based on the


       3        positive economic impact that tourism and cruise


       4        ship tourism provides Jacksonville.


       5             Some key information for the committee to


       6        know, based on CLIA, which is a cruise line


       7        industry association 2006 study, which is an


       8        independent study, talks about 40 percent of all


       9        passengers coming to a home port city and


      10        staying pre and post trips, staying in our


      11        hotels, and our restaurants, and enjoying our


      12        beaches and the transportation services that we


      13        offer.


      14             Additionally, on an average, an overnight


      15        visitor spends about $289 while they are here.


      16        Based on that data, on a 2,000-passenger ship,


      17        which is what we have here in the Fantasy, it


      18        has an economic impact of over $322,000, which


      19        in this day and age, as we are sliding into an


      20        economic disopportunity, we have an opportunity


      21        to secure that kind of industry.


      22             Interesting enough, when you talk about


      23        Carnival and you talk about Fascination, you


      24        really talk about 78 embarkations which, bottom


      25        line, generates $25 million in economic impact.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And, in closing, Florida is the cruise


       2        capital of the world.  It would be a missed


       3        opportunity for Jacksonville to not have the


       4        cruise ship business here, especially on the


       5        positive economic benefit that it portrays.


       6             And then, finally, a snapshot of our future


       7        is -- during the summer, when we did not have a


       8        cruise ship, we found our airport hotels


       9        dropping in occupancy to about 12 percent.  That


      10        12 percent -- 6 percent of that 12 percent was


      11        attributed to a decline in occupancy.  And not


      12        only did the hotels feel it, the workers felt


      13        it, as well as the restaurants and the


      14        transportation services.


      15             So, again, Visit Jacksonville, our 378


      16        partners, encourage the committee to look at the


      17        positive impact.  And I think bottom line, this


      18        is good for Jacksonville.


      19             Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      21             We have Alyce Decker.  If I'm saying the


      22        name incorrectly, I'm sorry.


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  No?


      25             Leslie Goller.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.


       3             My name is Leslie Goller.  I live at 2247


       4        Smullian Trail South.


       5             I have represented the City of Jacksonville


       6        for seven years on the Environmental Protection


       7        Board as an environmental activist, and I speak


       8        today against 2008-892 and -893.


       9             The reason why I speak against it is,


      10        contrary to the prior speaker, I don't think


      11        Jacksonville wants to be the destination to


      12        leave from.  That's not what Jacksonville is


      13        trying to represent itself as being.  We want to


      14        be an eco-tourist center and not this


      15        destination to leave from.


      16             Why I think this is an inappropriate place


      17        to be locating a cruise terminal is Mayport is


      18        one of the last vestiges of old Florida that we


      19        have left.  It's a shrimping and fishing village


      20        and it's inappropriate to be locating a cruise


      21        terminal at this location.


      22             They're talking about -- and I ask you to


      23        look at the estimate of the number of cars that


      24        they have per cruise ship.  We're talking about


      25        potentially two-and-a-half cruise ships.  They





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        estimate -- I think it's 350 cars per cruise


       2        ship.  I think that's a gross underestimation.


       3             But, at any point, what they themselves


       4        propose is a five-story parking garage to be


       5        located there.  Totally inappropriate for the


       6        area.  It will be at least as tall as what the


       7        lighthouse is at Mayport.  That's not what --


       8        the type of economic benefit we want coming to


       9        Jacksonville.


      10             What you do need to do is weigh the


      11        financial benefits and the financial detriment


      12        that's being caused.  We're talking about a very


      13        small road that leads out to Mayport.  What's


      14        going to happen to that road in order to get


      15        these minimally 350 times two-and-a-half cars


      16        going in and out of Mayport?  Is that what we


      17        want to have for that area?  We haven't even


      18        talked about the pollution coming out of the


      19        stacks of the cruise ship.


      20             This is not what Jacksonville needs, and I


      21        ask you to reconsider the situation.


      22             It's particularly inappropriate for


      23        Mayport.  We need to be trying to save the last


      24        vestiges of Florida.  We have very little of it


      25        left.  When I first moved here in 1983, you





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        know, Mandarin didn't exist.  It was farmland,


       2        it was trees.  Now it's wall-to-wall


       3        development, strip shopping centers, and housing


       4        developments.  We need to preserve what we've


       5        got left.


       6             We want to try to promote ourselves as an


       7        eco-friendly environment.  This is not the way


       8        to do that.


       9             Thank you.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      11             Donald Hart?  Harbord?


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Harris.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.


      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Donald Harris at 1256


      16        (Inaudible) Drive.


      17             I represent several hotels on Airport


      18        Road.  I am the chairman of the JIMC, all the


      19        airport -- all the airport businesses, as well


      20        as the mall on Airport Road.


      21             And the thing I want to speak about is the


      22        economic impact is just so strong for us.


      23        (Inaudible) in our hotel group own the Holiday


      24        Inn at the airport.  And our hotel alone for one


      25        year is $350,000 a year.  Now, that's just one





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hotel.  And I know that Mr. Reyes spoke about


       2        $25,000 for a year.  The time that we did not


       3        have the cruise line here this past summer, we


       4        probably lost about $5 million in regards to the


       5        hotels.


       6             And one of the things that we look at is


       7        that is probably the time in the summer that we


       8        need the business the most.  And as far as our


       9        industry, it's called a need period, in a sense


      10        that -- when we wind up getting the cruise


      11        business, it was kind of like a rainbow of gold


      12        that kind of showed up at our doorsteps, so we


      13        really do appreciate and really do embrace that


      14        business.


      15             And we're talking about, per cruise line,


      16        approximately 2,000 people.  It makes all the


      17        difference of our year.


      18             And as far as owners of hotels, they have


      19        built hotels for the future to represent the


      20        cruise line industry.  So, in a sense, it would


      21        be a shame to see it go away.  But we are


      22        excited about it.  We really are.


      23             Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      25             MR. HOLT:  Could I ask a question?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  Hold on a second.


       2             The last speaker, Claude Collins.


       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you and good


       5        evening.


       6             My name is Claude Collins.  I reside at


       7        17330 Elsinore Drive here in Jacksonville.


       8             And I won't belabor some of the numbers


       9        that came from John, which I support


      10        100 percent.  I just want to talk a little bit


      11        in support of the importance of the cruise


      12        industry.  The cruise industry is an important


      13        part of the tourism product in the city of


      14        Jacksonville.


      15             Just the figure that he mentioned with the


      16        78 cruises and the potential revenue from the


      17        Fascination of $25 million, over 122,000 jobs in


      18        Duval County, is really unreplaceable by many


      19        things in this day and time.


      20             The future of the industry is in jeopardy,


      21        though, and your help is needed to save it.


      22        Loss of the cruise business will mean a


      23        significant decrease in hotel rooms, restaurant


      24        sales, airline flights, and the jobs that go


      25        with it.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             It appears the problem is that it measures


       2        so poorly against the very lucrative import


       3        industry that we're blessed with at the


       4        Jacksonville Port.  That doesn't take away from


       5        its meaningful benefits.


       6             Other than the cruise terminal itself, very


       7        little development has to be done.  All the


       8        needed airlines, hotels, restaurants, and


       9        transportation facilities are here and in place,


      10        even for future development in the cruise


      11        industry that many anticipate for the future.


      12             Very little has been said about the


      13        industry since its beginning in 2003.  There's


      14        been a steady flow of business that's created


      15        very little impact on the local economy and has


      16        had very -- and has had a definite benefit on


      17        the travel industry.


      18             I hope you'll support this project, and I


      19        appreciate your time.


      20             Thank you.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      22             I have no further speakers, so we will


      23        continue that public hearing and take no further


      24        action.


      25             -893, we will open that public hearing.  I





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        only have one additional card, which was John.


       2             Do you have anything else to add?


       3             MR. REYES:  No.  I'm fine.


       4             MS. GOLLER:  I filled out a card for both.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  You need a separate card for


       6        each one, ma'am.


       7             Go ahead.  You can come down and speak.


       8             (Ms. Goller approaches the podium.)


       9             MS. GOLLER:  And I actually asked you to


      10        please read into the record what I had brought


      11        in that came from the Public Trust and Warren


      12        Anderson, if that could be please read into the


      13        record.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I -- I was going to say,


      15        ma'am, you can go ahead and speak, just fill out


      16        a card afterwards.  That's fine.


      17             MS. GOLLER:  Okay.  All right.


      18             Should we wait until you read that into the


      19        record --


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  You want to read that to the


      21        record.


      22             MS. GOLLER:  -- or would you like me to do


      23        that as part of my three minutes?


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  You can do that, ma'am, if


      25        you'd like to read that to the record.  And if





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        you could, afterwards just fill out another


       2        card, ma'am.  I'd appreciate it.


       3             MS. GOLLER:  All right.


       4             "On behalf of the Public Trust


       5        Environmental Legal Institute of Florida, Inc.,


       6        and myself, Warren K. Anderson, Jr., personally


       7        I want to inform the Land Use and Zoning


       8        Committee of our objection to the Mayport cruise


       9        terminal.  We have a number of specific


      10        objections.  They include the adverse


      11        environmental impact on the St. Johns River and


      12        the Timucuan National Preserve, air and water


      13        pollution, increased traffic, et cetera, and


      14        also the adverse effect on the viewscape within


      15        the Timucuan National Preserve, a five-story


      16        parking garage, multistory cruise ships,


      17        et cetera.


      18             "We urge LUZ to vote against these


      19        proposals."


      20             Signed by Warren K. Anderson, Jr., Public


      21        Trust Environmental Legal Institute of Florida,


      22        Inc.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      24             MS. GOLLER:  Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  I appreciate it.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no further speakers, we'll continue


       2        this and take no further action.


       3             But, Mr. Reyes, we have a question for you.


       4             MR. REYES:  Sure.


       5             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


       6             Mr. Reyes, I just wanted to make sure of a


       7        percentage.  Did you say 40 percent of the


       8        passengers of the Fascination actually stay over


       9        in a hotel?


      10             MR. REYES:  Yes, sir.  It's 40 percent.


      11             And it's also documented in a CLIA study,


      12        which is a cruise line industry association.


      13        It's a model that pretty much withstands


      14        throughout the entire home port cities


      15        throughout the United States.


      16             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  Thank you.


      17             MR. REYES:  Sure.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  -910, we've already done


      19        that.


      20             -929, we've already decided to defer


      21        that.


      22             Middle of page 11, -933.  We'll open that


      23        public hearing.


      24             Seeing no speakers, we're close that public


      25        hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I need to move the bill.


       2             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


       3             MR. CLARK:  Second.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and


       5        seconded.


       6             Any discussion on the bill?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


       9        ballot.


      10             (Committee ballot opened.)


      11             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      17        the vote.


      18             (Committee ballot closed.)


      19             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      21        approved -933.


      22             Let's skip over to the bottom of page 12,


      23        -970.


      24             We will open the public hearing.


      25             We have Gary Crumley, who is no longer with





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        us.


       2             Seeing no further speakers, we'll continue


       3        that public hearing and take no further action.


       4             -971 is the appeal.


       5             -972, we will open the public hearing.


       6             We have Bill Schaefer.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, your name and address


       9        for the record.


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Bill Schaefer.


      11        My address is 6380 Philips Highway, Suite 101,


      12        Jacksonville, Florida.


      13             I'm the agent for the owner on behalf of


      14        this project, and it's a project that we're


      15        trying to have a developer's agreement with


      16        regards to concurrency, affirmation statements


      17        that have been provided, that they have


      18        concurrency on the roadway infrastructure out


      19        there, and we're just trying to lock that up so


      20        he has a little longer time to go ahead and


      21        develop this project that he has proposed for


      22        it.


      23             That's all.  Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no further


      25        speakers, we'll close that public hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


       2             MR. HOLT:  Second.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  It has been moved and


       4        seconded.


       5             Any discussion on the bill?


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


       8        ballot.


       9             (Committee ballot opened.)


      10             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      16        the vote.


      17             (Committee ballot closed.)


      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      20        approved -972.


      21             -973, open the public hearing.


      22             Thank you, sir.


      23             MR. SCHAEFER:  Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Randy, come on down.


      25             (Audience member approaches the podium.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  You're here for


       2        questions only.


       3             Hold tight.  We may have some for you.


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no further speakers,


       6        we'll close the public hearing.


       7             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill.


       8             MR. JOOST:  Second.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      10        seconded.


      11             Any discussion on the bill?


      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      14        ballot.


      15             (Committee ballot opened.)


      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      22        the vote.


      23             (Committee ballot closed.)


      24             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        approved -973.


       2             Thank you, sir.


       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  -974, open the public


       5        hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, close the public


       7        hearing.


       8             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


       9             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      11        seconded.


      12             Any discussion on the bill?


      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      15        ballot.


      16             (Committee ballot opened.)


      17             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      23        the vote.


      24             (Committee ballot closed.)


      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


       2        approved -974.


       3             -975.  We will open that public hearing.


       4             Mr. Harden.


       5             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


       6             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 501 Riverside


       7        Avenue.


       8             I'm just here to answer questions.


       9             It's a development agreement in Councilman


      10        Graham's district for the Diocese of


      11        St. Augustine.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any questions of


      13        Mr. Harden?


      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, close the


      16        public hearing.


      17             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and


      20        seconded.


      21             Any further discussion on the bill?


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      24        ballot.


      25             (Committee ballot opened.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


       7        the vote.


       8             (Committee ballot closed.)


       9             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      11        approved -975.


      12             We've already gone through all the second


      13        and rerefers.  The only thing we have left is


      14        the amendment -- I'm sorry -- it's the appeal,


      15        and that's 2008-855.  No, I'm sorry.  -971.


      16             And I'm going to have to leave.  I have an


      17        early excusal, so we will let the vice chair,


      18        Mr. Joost, handle this appeal.


      19             So, Mr. Joost, you're on board.


      20             (Mr. Joost assumes the Chair.)


      21             (Mr. Graham exits the proceedings.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Who's appealing?


      23             MS. ELLER:  To the Vice Chair, now the


      24        Chairman, we have an appeal from a denial by the


      25        Planning Commission.  Typically, you may want to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        go to the Planning Department to just explain


       2        the application, and then I believe we have two


       3        speakers in the audience to explain the position


       4        of the person appealing.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let's go to the


       6        Planning Department for a brief description.


       7             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


       8             To the committee, application -- or the


       9        appeal 2008-971 is an appeal of a zoning


      10        exception application that was heard by the


      11        Planning Commission back on August 28th.


      12             The zoning exception sought to allow for an


      13        assisted living facility with 14 beds and two


      14        staff members located at 2044 North Davis


      15        Street, between 11th -- between Scriven Street


      16        and 11th Street West.


      17             The applicant, Omega Brooks, appeared


      18        before the Commission.  There was opposition at


      19        that time.  The subject property is located


      20        within the boundaries of the Good Neighbor Mania


      21        Neighborhood Association.


      22             The department's report focused primarily


      23        on consistency with the comprehensive plan and


      24        we felt that the size of the lot with the amount


      25        of residents that would be living in this -- in





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the dwelling -- it's a two-story dwelling,


       2        approximately -- about 1,600 square feet.


       3             The policies in the comp plan that we felt


       4        this would be -- would not permit a gradual


       5        intens- -- or a gradual transition of densities


       6        and intensities between uses.


       7             We also felt it was contrary to policy


       8        3.1.2, the future land use element, in that --


       9        the City shall eliminate incompatible land uses


      10        or blighting influences from potentially stable,


      11        viable residential neighborhoods.


      12             We also felt it was in conflict with future


      13        land use element policy 2.2.4 that states -- the


      14        importance of maintaining existing and stable


      15        neighborhoods through coordination and


      16        rehabilitation and conservation action by the


      17        Housing Safety Division of the Planning and


      18        Development Department.


      19             Additionally, there was inconsistencies


      20        with existing property safety codes and life,


      21        health, safety codes under the fire marshal's


      22        office, which -- this proposed use, at this


      23        location on this small of a lot, we generally


      24        felt was too intense and too intrusive to the


      25        neighborhood.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The Planning Commission supported our


       2        recommendation for denial, and I'll just


       3        summarize with that.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Ms. Eller, why don't


       5        you go over the rules for the appeal; you know,


       6        who speaks and for how long and what the


       7        rebuttal rules are.


       8             MS. ELLER:  Sure.  I believe you have two


       9        speaker cards.  Do you?


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


      11             MS. ELLER:  And do we have the applicant


      12        here?


      13             Do we have the applicant?  If you could


      14        come on up.


      15             We typically allow about ten minutes for


      16        the applicant to speak, and then about the same


      17        amount of time for anyone in opposition to


      18        speak.


      19             If there are more opposition speakers than


      20        that ten minutes, the chairman typically will


      21        give one or two minutes for each, but you can


      22        limit duplicative testimony, and then a few


      23        minutes for the applicant to rebut.


      24             In this case, if there aren't any members


      25        of the opposition -- you received the report





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        from the Planning Commission already, who did


       2        vote against it.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  And then who goes


       4        first?


       5             MS. ELLER:  You could open the public


       6        hearing and let the applicant go first.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  The public hearing is


       8        open.


       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Omega Brooks.


      11        My address is 4260 Lindy Trail, Jacksonville,


      12        Florida 32210.


      13             And today I would like to address the


      14        concerns of the Planning Commission as stated in


      15        the staff report as well as address the concerns


      16        bought out during my initial hearing.


      17             Throughout the staff report there appears


      18        to be six general concerns:  character of the


      19        neighborhood, square footage requirements, the


      20        number of bathrooms, traffic and parking, and


      21        the intensity of use.


      22             With regards to the character of the


      23        neighborhood, the staff report states that the


      24        proposed property is in the vicinity of only


      25        single residential homes.  According to the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        property appraiser's website, this is


       2        inaccurate.  I have a list of properties that


       3        are zoned as multifamily, which are located on


       4        the same street as the property.  In addition,


       5        there are other properties with various uses.


       6             The square footage requirement.  To satisfy


       7        the square footage requirement, I'm requesting


       8        to change the number of residents from 14


       9        to 10.


      10             Number of bathrooms.  I have provided


      11        pictures which show that the home has two


      12        bathrooms, which meets the minimum requirement.


      13             Traffic and parking.  According to the


      14        staff report, the property lacks parking and


      15        would negatively impact traffic.  This is


      16        inaccurate, and I have provided an approved


      17        parking plan.


      18             Intensity of use.  Because we will be an


      19        assisted living facility and will provide our


      20        residents with all meals, snacks, and on-site


      21        laundry, personal items, housekeeping and


      22        on-site activities, there won't be a need for


      23        our residents to make trips for shopping or


      24        other needs.


      25             In addition, our shopping, in most cases,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        would be done on a monthly basis, therefore


       2        eliminating the number of trips made -- limiting


       3        the number of trips made.


       4             We will also be providing assistance with


       5        daily activities that family members are not


       6        available to provide and, therefore, we do not


       7        anticipate daily visits from family members.


       8             And, finally, the individuals we will


       9        service will have mental or medical conditions


      10        that will prevent them from driving, which also


      11        shows that there will be limited trips into --


      12        onto and off the property.


      13             There were several concerns during my


      14        initial hearing that appear to be licensing


      15        related.  I would like to reassure you that


      16        there is an extensive licensing process in which


      17        zoning is only one component.  All assisted


      18        living facilities are licensed and regulated by


      19        AHCA.  Before I can obtain a license from AHCA,


      20        I must have appropriate zoning, a fire


      21        inspection, health inspection, background


      22        screening, as well as meet other requirements.


      23             There were also questions about my


      24        qualifications.  I have provided the Planning


      25        Commission with a copy of my license to be an





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        administrator for an assisted living facility as


       2        well as my license for limited mental health.


       3        Assisted living facilities are not required to


       4        employ a nurse unless holding an additional


       5        license such as an LNS or ECC license.


       6             There are also concerns regarding building


       7        modifications for physically disabled.  Any


       8        modifications that would need to be made will be


       9        made prior to licensing.


      10             There are also concerns with the facility


      11        becoming a rooming house.  There are many


      12        concerns with the home becoming a rooming


      13        house.  I am not applying for a zoning for a


      14        rooming house, and I do not have any intentions


      15        of opening a rooming house.


      16             I would like to receive approval for a


      17        zoning -- for zoning as -- so that I may open a


      18        licensed, 24-hour, staff-assisted living


      19        facility which will service the surrounding


      20        community.


      21             As I stated, the staff report said that


      22        opening an assisted living facility in this


      23        particular neighborhood would change the


      24        character of the neighborhood.  And I have a


      25        list of some of the homes that I looked up, and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        there's a number of them that are not zoned as


       2        single-family within the same vicinity of this


       3        home.


       4             Also, in the staff report there is a


       5        listing of the homes that are to the, I guess,


       6        right, left, and in front and behind it, and I


       7        believe three out of the maybe four homes that


       8        are listed are not listed as single-family


       9        residences.


      10             And I also notice that he said something


      11        about the square footage was about 1,600.  Even


      12        according to the property appraiser's website,


      13        that is definitely inaccurate.  The home is


      14        about -- is closer to 2,000 square feet.


      15             And so basically I hope that you-all can


      16        consider and see that there is a need for


      17        assisted living facilities within family


      18        communities, not just for them to be isolated


      19        and committed to, I guess, state hospitals or


      20        other places that's on the outskirts.


      21             I think that it's very important that we


      22        include people with disabilities as well as --


      23        whether it be physical, medical, or mental.


      24             And so I would like to thank you for your


      25        time today, and I hope that y'all can see the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        need for an assisted living facility in the


       2        community and allow me to proceed with my plans


       3        to open such a facility.


       4             Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       6             Next speaker.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  If I may, I'm


       9        Andrew Brigham.


      10             I'm a resident of Mandarin.  I wanted to


      11        speak to another item that I understood was


      12        deferred, but then apparently --


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, we're having a -- we're


      14        having an appeal right now, so I need to hear


      15        the other side of this particular matter.


      16             MR. BRIGHAM:  Yes, sir.


      17             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.  My card


      19        was not called.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Celia Miller.


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  State your name and


      23        address for the record, please.


      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Celia Miller, president


      25        of Good Neighbor Mania, 1440 North Myrtle





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Avenue, 32209.


       2             I was contacted both by the applicant,


       3        Ms. Brooks, and the Planning Department during


       4        the hearing with the Planning Commission.  And


       5        we, as a neighborhood association, found that we


       6        were between what we described as a rock and a


       7        hard place because we didn't have the


       8        opportunity to be fully informed from either


       9        side on the status of this property.


      10             And I did speak over the phone with


      11        Ms. Brooks, and I was very impressed with her


      12        plans and her mission to provide a facility of


      13        this nature.  And while we grant her that the


      14        city does need this type of a facility, as a


      15        neighborhood association and concerned about the


      16        neighborhood being at a tipping point -- it's


      17        ann older, historic neighborhood -- we wanted to


      18        come to some agreement or consensus with her and


      19        the City, that -- the way the City described the


      20        property, the property is not presently suitable


      21        to be occupied for an assisted living facility


      22        or even for a congregate living facility.


      23             And at this juncture, on that point only,


      24        as a neighborhood association, we're concerned


      25        that there be some monitoring or regulations or





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        some means put in place to assist Ms. Brooks to


       2        help her meet all of the regulations required


       3        for an assisted living facility, but that her


       4        future clients not be subjected to a structure


       5        that could not meet the present code enforcement


       6        for safety and comfort and sanitary conditions.


       7             And I have personally -- representing the


       8        association, have not seen the property, but I


       9        do know where the location is.


      10             So I'm not here to oppose her idea.  I'm


      11        here to oppose that no resident or no applicant


      12        or possible client of such a facility be


      13        subjected to any type of dwelling or structure


      14        that would not provide safety and would not


      15        fully comply with what is required for a


      16        facility.


      17             The neighborhood is at a tipping point, but


      18        it's predominantly residential.  The


      19        neighborhood was impacted many years ago when


      20        I-95 split the neighborhood.  And it has become


      21        somewhat of a pocket in what was once a vibrant


      22        neighborhood, and some of those very


      23        architectural significant homes remain there,


      24        and the neighborhood is in transition.


      25             If her facility meets the code and she and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the department can come up with certain


       2        conditions to make sure that they're enforced


       3        for her plans and for the City's requirement,


       4        then I think they can come to a win/win


       5        situation and accomplish what we both want to


       6        accomplish.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, ma'am.


       8             Shannon, is there any room for rebuttal?


       9             MS. ELLER:  If there's a little bit more


      10        time, Ms. Brooks may offer a final closing


      11        statement.  I don't think we have any other


      12        speakers besides the Planning Department


      13        representing the Planning Commission.


      14             (Ms. Brooks approaches the podium.)


      15             MS. BROOKS:  I definitely understand the


      16        concerns brought up by Ms. Miller.  And, as I


      17        stated before, I plan to be licensed through


      18        AHCA, which is the state agency that actually


      19        regulates assisted living facilities.


      20             I have taken the training courses and I


      21        have passed the competency test.  I have my card


      22        here that shows that I've also turned in my


      23        paperwork showing that.


      24             And I also want to reassure her again that,


      25        with an assisted living facility, it is highly





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        regulated.  I don't know if she remembers seeing


       2        me with that big, big white notebook.  That's


       3        full of all rules and regulations and laws that


       4        you have to actually meet when running an


       5        assisted living facility.


       6             And I also have some things here, if she'd


       7        like to see them, with some of the checklists


       8        that we have to go through and some of the


       9        things that you have to have in place.


      10             So with opening an assisted living


      11        facility, it's not an easy task as some people


      12        may think.  And I also want to open up a


      13        reputable business.  And I definitely don't want


      14        to impact the neighborhood.


      15             As she stated, the neighborhood is


      16        basically already on decline.  The neighborhood,


      17        pretty much the majority of the houses there are


      18        vacant.  And I think it will be very


      19        disappointing if I'm denied this opportunity to


      20        do something in the community where -- when the


      21        properties are vacant, that actually attracts


      22        more crime because there's nobody there that has


      23        a vested interest.


      24             I want to come in the neighborhood and have


      25        a vested interest.  I want to employ people in





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the neighborhood so they'll have a vested


       2        interest in it as well and that they'll take


       3        ownership of it and ensure that we won't have


       4        crime going on in this particular facility.


       5             Also, AHCA requires that you have a 24-hour


       6        staff.  It's not where you can leave these


       7        people unattended.  You have to have a 24-hour


       8        staff.  There's background screening.  There's a


       9        whole number of things.


      10             Like they stated, they had concerns about


      11        safety, but with AHCA, there is a requirement --


      12        as far as fire safety, you have to have a


      13        pull-down fire system that you have to put in


      14        the home and -- which I've already done that


      15        because initially I was told by zoning that I


      16        could open an assisted living facility there,


      17        then later I found out it's only by exception.


      18        I've already invested over $3,000 to put in this


      19        fire alarm system.


      20             So I'm showing that I'm willing to take


      21        every step necessary to open and operate a


      22        licensed facility, not a rooming house that I'm


      23        just going to abandon.


      24             If she -- Ms. Miller would like to also


      25        see, I have before pictures of the place and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        there's after pictures of the place.  The place


       2        has been renovated, so it is in a condition


       3        where someone could bring their family member


       4        there to live.


       5             So I hope you-all take all into


       6        consideration and majority [sic] that it's not


       7        going to be a place that's just going to be,


       8        like the concerns are, a rooming house.  It's


       9        not going to be a rooming house.  It's going to


      10        be licensed and regulated not only by AHCA, you


      11        have -- the fire department is going to be


      12        involved, you have the health department that's


      13        going to be involved.


      14             Everything has to be documented, down to


      15        the T, even your menu.  Your menu has to be


      16        signed off by a dietician.  So there are


      17        standards and regulations that's already in


      18        place, and I plan to actually follow through


      19        with all the requirements that I need to have.


      20             Thank you.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      22             Seeing no other speakers, the public


      23        hearing is closed.


      24             Personally, I'd like to hear from the


      25        Planning Department.  And me, specifically, two





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        things in there.  The bathrooms were mentioned,


       2        whether there seems to be some question as to


       3        whether there are one or two bathrooms.


       4             And then I noticed -- I noticed apparently


       5        there are 14 people in there, which requires


       6        200 square feet.  So that's 2,800 square feet.


       7        I think that's -- I heard the size of the house


       8        is only 2,000 square feet.  So I'd like you to


       9        go over those two points.


      10             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.


      11             To the Chair, the staff's review -- and


      12        this -- you know, the only reason, I guess,


      13        we've gotten so familiar with these code


      14        requirements is because we just finished dealing


      15        with rooming house statute changes in


      16        Springfield, and so we're very familiar with now


      17        the NFPA, life safety code.  In addition, the


      18        property safety code issues.


      19             And so the -- the life safety code is the


      20        200 square feet per person, which is calculated


      21        by taking the gross floor area of the use


      22        divided by the number of occupants.


      23             And, in this instance, the proposed use was


      24        deficient by more than 700 square feet at this


      25        location and did not conform to the life safety





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        code.


       2             Additionally, based on the number of


       3        residents within the house, that in this -- it


       4        was my understanding at the time -- it may have


       5        been renovated since then, but there was only


       6        one bathroom for the six bedrooms that were in


       7        the house, and so that also basically was not a


       8        sufficient number of bathrooms per the property


       9        safety code.


      10             So, I mean -- besides all that, I'll just


      11        kind of sum up that -- the comments by


      12        Commissioner Register at the end of the hearing,


      13        really just looking at the surrounding uses,


      14        this is primarily a single-family neighborhood.


      15        There are some duplexes in there.  But allowing


      16        this use to go in the middle of this


      17        neighborhood, on this size of a lot, with 14


      18        residents and two staff people is an isolated


      19        use in the middle of the neighborhood that


      20        would, in the staff's opinion, only, you know,


      21        lead to the detriment -- continued detriment of


      22        that neighborhood.


      23             That is not located -- it does not provide


      24        enough of a buffer or transition, that it's too


      25        intense for this size of a property and for this





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        size of a structure.


       2             So that's essentially the reasoning for the


       3        denial, and Planning Commission found also.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Clark.


       5             MR. CLARK:  Thank you.


       6             The public hearing is closed, correct?


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


       8             MR. CLARK:  To Sean's point, you know, I


       9        don't think any of us doubt the applicant's


      10        legitimacy and ability to run, you know, a nice


      11        facility, but I don't think that's what we're


      12        really discussing.  I think we're discussing a


      13        piece of property here, whether or not it


      14        conforms, and whether or not it can actually


      15        adequately do what they say they can do with the


      16        amount of space they've got.


      17             I haven't quite figured out exactly how


      18        much square footage is in the thing.  I've seen


      19        it online.  I kind of looked at everything


      20        around it.  I personally don't see any way you


      21        can fit even ten people in a dwelling of this


      22        size, much less 14.


      23             So I am -- I am of the opinion that I'm


      24        not -- I'm not going to support the appeal.


      25             MR. HOLT:  Move the denial.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no other speakers, do


       2        I hear a second on the amendment to deny?


       3             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  All those in favor of


       5        the amendment signify by saying aye.


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any opposed?


       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.


      10             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill as amended.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Can I get a second?


      12             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let's put it up on


      14        the screen, seeing no other speakers.


      15             (Committee ballot opened.)


      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      20             (Committee ballot closed.)


      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, -971 as


      23        amended, move to deny has passed.


      24             MR. CLARK:  (Inaudible.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. ELLER:  Through the Chair to the


       2        committee, the public hearing has been continued


       3        to December 2nd, so there will be another


       4        opportunity.  And I think what some of the


       5        members of the audience have said is that they


       6        didn't realize that the public hearing was going


       7        to be opened and continued.  They thought that


       8        the item was going to be deferred without anyone


       9        speaking.


      10             I believe there's only three -- maybe three


      11        speaker cards.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Only three speakers.


      13             MS. ELLER:  Three speaker cards.


      14             So my recommendation to the committee would


      15        be to allow them to speak at this opportunity


      16        and with the knowledge that everyone in the room


      17        knows that there's another public hearing on


      18        December 2nd, so your comments may be better


      19        served being repeated at the December 2nd


      20        meeting as well.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We'll reopen the


      22        public hearing.


      23             Which bill number is that?


      24             MS. ELLER:  -892 and -893 together.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  -892 and -893 together.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Will Andrew Brigham --


       2             (Mr. Brigham approaches the podium.)


       3             MR. BRIGHAM:  Brigham.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  You've got three


       5        minutes.


       6             MR. BRIGHAM:  Thank you.  And thank you for


       7        your courtesy tonight.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well --


       9             MR. BRIGHAM:  We appreciate you reopening


      10        the public hearing.


      11             I'm Andrew Brigham.  I'm from Mandarin, and


      12        I'm here to oppose JaxPort's plan -- or


      13        application for amendment.


      14             What do I know about Mayport because I live


      15        in Mandarin?  And I would ask you each, when


      16        making decisions on this matter, that you do


      17        what I did and go out to Mayport and talk to


      18        people there.


      19             The issue here isn't about an historical


      20        marker and it's not about just an historical


      21        place; it's about living history.  There are


      22        people in Mayport whose family has been there


      23        for eight generations.  Where do we see this in


      24        the United States of America?  It's a very small


      25        community.  It's a community whose heartbeat is





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        a working waterfront.


       2             Now, some may say that the economy now has


       3        turned against the shrimp boats and therefore


       4        against the working waterfront.  If that's what


       5        government is going to do in these times where


       6        the economy is going to be pressing on not just


       7        Mayport but other communities, I suggest that


       8        that is not at the core of what's at stake here.


       9             What is at stake is that the Port Authority


      10        is proposing a use that is not consistent, that


      11        is not in concurrence with the present


      12        comprehensive plan.


      13             The policies of government and this City


      14        Council have been to protect a working


      15        waterfront.  There's an overlay.  This has been


      16        what the community has an expectation in.  This


      17        is what needs protection.


      18             With the Port Authority building a


      19        terminal, it's just the beginning of a more


      20        massive undertaking.  This will be the most


      21        dominant land use in all of Mayport.  There's no


      22        doubt about it.  And when the promises are made


      23        that eminent domain will not be used, those


      24        promises will not be kept because you cannot


      25        have such an intense use without widening the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        roads, without improving the infrastructure.


       2        That will devastate the small commercial strip


       3        along A1A.


       4             Please don't delude yourself.  The


       5        proposition that this will better the community


       6        is the same promise that redevelopers have made


       7        to those areas that were being blighted, that


       8        really weren't blighted.  They were just owned


       9        by a community that was asked to move along.


      10        Please don't ask this community to move along.


      11             If you go to Tampa and if you look at the


      12        trendy shops that are near the terminal, it's a


      13        nice place to visit, it's a nice place to have


      14        lunch, but the property is not owned by the


      15        people who were originally in that community.


      16             And if you pass this amendment, you will be


      17        breaking faith with the people that depended


      18        upon you to protect the working waterfront.


      19        You'll be breaking faith with the whole


      20        community that will die out a slow attrition


      21        because this happens -- the port will have its


      22        anchor spot.  Everything else will have to cater


      23        to that.


      24             The people that live and love this


      25        community, if you have not talked to, please go





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        up to Mayport before you make this important


       2        decision and see if there are some things that


       3        are worth more than any revenues that a cruise


       4        ship terminal could provide.


       5             And thank you again for opening up the


       6        public hearing.  I do appreciate it.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       8             Ms. Decker.


       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.  I too thank you.  I


      11        live -- I'm one of the ones that misunderstood


      12        how deferring a public hearing were two


      13        different things.


      14             My name is Alyce Decker.  I live at 109


      15        Lost Beach Lane.  I too am out of the


      16        community.  I live in Ponte Vedra.  However,


      17        I've been a member of the Mayport Waterfront


      18        Partnership for the past nine years, and I too


      19        oppose this land use change for the cruise


      20        terminal that JaxPort is seeking.


      21             One of the things -- or a number of the


      22        things that I know you have before you -- and I


      23        have considered a lot of the different


      24        information from a lot of different sources that


      25        you have received.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The partnership has worked for the past


       2        nine years under the direction of the City of


       3        Jacksonville with one of their own staff


       4        planners who was assigned to administer this


       5        Mayport working waterfront program which comes


       6        out of the Department of Community Affairs.


       7             Mayport was one of the first working


       8        waterfronts that was chosen, and they were very


       9        thrilled about it, as was the City of


      10        Jacksonville.


      11             Right now I feel that the right hand does


      12        not exactly know what the left hand is doing.


      13        There has been a great deal of energy, thousands


      14        and thousands of dollars of programs have


      15        been -- and projects and research has been done


      16        to refurbish this community.


      17             The group has created an overlay zone.  One


      18        of the outgrowths of the waterfront partnership


      19        was the Mayport Road overlay zone just passed by


      20        the City Council last night.  And now when you


      21        go along Mayport Road, there is landscape and


      22        new curbing, new guttering and all those sorts


      23        of things.  That would not have happened had it


      24        not been for the Mayport Waterfront Partnership.


      25             So, again, I know you will hear from other





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        citizens in the ensuing next couple of public


       2        hearings that we have.  But I, again, agree that


       3        there is a broken trust here if we are working


       4        on -- for several years, to restore and preserve


       5        a working waterfront as a State program and


       6        administering federal funds to do so and then to


       7        forsake that just because of this particular


       8        project.


       9             Thank you very much.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      11             Mr. Crumley, Gary Crumley.


      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Gary R.


      14        Crumley.  I'm a registered landscape architect


      15        and the program director for the Mayport


      16        waterfront's partnership.


      17             Mr. Holt has been to our city to meet with


      18        us in the past and we thank him for doing so.


      19             At that January meeting, it was stated that


      20        the stars had to align for the opportunity of a


      21        cruise terminal to occur, including, directly


      22        from the Port Authority's mouth, a 20-year


      23        commitment for a lease, a 20-year commitment for


      24        a lease before they would even consider pursuing


      25        this.  Where is their 20-year lease?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The Mayport Waterfront Partnership and the


       2        waterfront has done everything they can to do


       3        what was assigned to them in their mission


       4        developed in this plan here, the visioning of


       5        Mayport.  This was funded by the NOAA, a federal


       6        agency that gave the City of Jacksonville


       7        $50,000 to administrate that grant and develop


       8        that overlay district zoning, 2006.


       9             And within that zoning, 2006, Chapter 381,


      10        what do we find?  A requirement in the zoning


      11        ordinance stating that a Waterfront Partnership


      12        acknowledgment letter be provided before any


      13        purchase, sale, or transfer of property occurs.


      14        Where is the Jacksonville Port letter from the


      15        Port Authority?


      16             Now, it would seem to me that if the


      17        federal government is providing funding to


      18        develop the waterfront and to assist us in this


      19        program and that you as the City Council members


      20        and people who are in charge of supplying the


      21        protection needed in Mayport to keep that


      22        community, would it be a malfeasance of the use


      23        of federal funds to reverse and throw out the


      24        very overlay district and ordinances that you


      25        people paid for in order to create?  It seems to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        me to be a conflict here.


       2             Now, there's less than 60 acres of acreage


       3        and less than 200 people in this community.  It


       4        would seem to me that you would be serving them


       5        an injustice to tell them, sorry, we no longer


       6        have room for a working waterfront and the


       7        Waterfront Partnership no longer has a place in


       8        Jacksonville.  You need to look inside


       9        yourselves and say what's the right thing to do


      10        here.


      11             Now, the concerns that I have here are that


      12        we've got mayors, city councilmen, and a lot of


      13        really good people that started out with this


      14        plan.  The partnership board of directors


      15        included Councilman Dick Brown, Commissioner


      16        John Meserve, Councilman Theo Mitchelson


      17        (phonetic), Councilman Max Leggett, Councilman


      18        Eric Smith.  None of these people are around


      19        today.  The Waterfront Partnership deserves your


      20        support.


      21             And, Ray Holt, you're the number one guy in


      22        our community who should be attending these


      23        Waterfront Partnership meetings.


      24             We appreciate your consideration tonight.


      25        Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       2             Seeing no other speakers, we will close the


       3        public hearing -- open and continue till


       4        December 2nd.


       5             Any other action or comments by the


       6        committee or the Planning Department?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             STAFF MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Then this committee is


      10        closed.


      11             (The above proceedings were adjourned at


      12        6:40 p.m.)


      13                         -  -  -





























           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E




       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:


       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :




       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was


       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the


       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a


       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.


      10             Dated this 23rd day of November, 2008.








      14                                 Diane M. Tropia



























           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203