1 CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, November 18,
7 2008, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 ART GRAHAM, Chair.
STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.
14 RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.
RAY HOLT, Committee Member.
15 DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
16
ALSO PRESENT:
17
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
18 SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
19 FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
20 MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
21
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22
23
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 November 18, 2008 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, everybody.
5 Let the record show that this is Tuesday,
6 November 18, and I have about five minutes after
7 5:00. I have to apologize for being a little
8 late. I got caught in another meeting in my
9 office.
10 This is the Land Use and Zoning Committee
11 meeting, and let's start over here with
12 Mr. Crofts, and let's introduce ourselves.
13 MR. CROFTS: My name is John Crofts,
14 Planning and Development Department.
15 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
16 Development Department.
17 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
18 Development Department.
19 MS. ELLER: Shannon Eller, Office of
20 General Counsel.
21 MR. BROWN: Councilman Elect Reginald
22 Brown, District 10.
23 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, Council District 4.
24 MR. HOLT: Ray Holt, District 11.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Art Graham, District 13.
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 MR. JOOST: Stephen Joost, Group 3
2 at-large.
3 MR. CLARK: Richard Clark, District 3.
4 MR. DAVIS: Daniel Davis, concerned
5 citizen.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilman Brown,
7 congratulations and welcome.
8 When is the swearing in?
9 MR. BROWN: The 25th.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The 25th. Don't be in any
11 rush.
12 Mr. Davis, before we get started, is there
13 something specifically you're here on?
14 MR. DAVIS: Well, I did come to hear the
15 debate on -969. I heard that there was a
16 substitute. I believe the president is
17 supporting a sub on that. And I'd love to
18 listen in on the debate, maybe add something to
19 it if necessary.
20 MR. JOOST: What page is it on?
21 MR. DAVIS: Twelve.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: -969, page 12.
23 Committee Members, if I can get you to turn
24 over to page 12, 2008-969.
25 We do have a public hearing. I'll open the
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 public hearing.
2 And seeing no speakers, we will close that
3 public hearing.
4 MR. HOLT: Move the sub.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: No, I think we have an
6 amendment.
7 MS. ELLER: That's the Fussell substitute.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The Fussell substitute.
9 MR. HOLT: Move the Fussell substitute.
10 MR. CLARK: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: The Fussell sub has been
12 moved and seconded.
13 Can we hear the Fussell sub?
14 MS. ELLER: Yes. To the committee, the
15 substitute makes about 20 different technical
16 corrections, and they were identified through
17 the Planning Department review. They are
18 technical in that they are correcting internal
19 references, making sure that the changes we've
20 made have been made throughout the zoning code.
21 They do not change any of the substantive
22 provisions in the bill that was originally
23 filed.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there -- can you give me,
25 Mr. Kelly, a 50,000-foot brief overview of what
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 we've done with these residential changes?
2 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
3 I've handed out a spreadsheet. Essentially
4 it goes over the new residential zoning
5 districts and all the development standards.
6 You'll see the matrix on that spreadsheet.
7 What it did, for ease of terminology, it
8 essentially renamed the zoning districts based
9 on the required lot width, so you now have
10 RLD-120, RLD-100, RLD-90, -80, -70, et cetera.
11 Additionally, the changes that were done
12 were -- that are substantial were the
13 setbacks -- side yard setback requirements have
14 been amended for most of the districts. In
15 addition, some of the larger lot front yard
16 setbacks were changed.
17 Additionally, lot coverage percentages were
18 increased. We had found that with most of the
19 new developments that we're seeing and the
20 deviation requests that we have seen in the past
21 that the -- I guess the strict enforcement of
22 that open space provision, in light of
23 developments now providing parks and recreation,
24 which is the other component of this bill, that
25 is mandated, required open space as part of a
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 subdivision plat now, so we felt that the open
2 space was being provided for in the common area
3 and the parks as required in this new
4 legislation and, therefore, it was justified to
5 reduce setbacks and to increase lot coverages.
6 The department did go through -- there's --
7 I guess out of those 20-some-odd changes,
8 there's about probably -- probably about three
9 or four of those changes that the department
10 doesn't support changing back in the Fussell
11 amendment, and I'll just specifically reference
12 one has to do with how we measure height of a
13 buildings.
14 That was recently changed within --
15 citywide, under Part 16, in the adoption of the
16 Riverside Avondale overlay dealing with how you
17 measure the height, and it's currently from the
18 required finished floor elevation. The proposed
19 Fussell amendment just makes it the finished
20 floor elevation, so we have some concerns with
21 that.
22 Additionally, we felt --
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second.
24 What are your concerns on that?
25 (Mr. Fussell enters the proceedings.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. KELLY: The required finished floor
2 elevation is essentially one foot above the base
3 flood elevation. It's the habitable space in a
4 dwelling. We felt that if you just use the
5 finished floor elevation, there's no limit to
6 the amount of fill that could go in to elevate a
7 lot, which could otherwise elevate the house,
8 and so we would --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we played that game at
10 the beach before where people raised the house
11 and put parking underneath, and so basically we
12 did it from the crown of the road out front.
13 But that's neither here nor there.
14 Go ahead.
15 MR. KELLY: Yeah. And so that would -- you
16 know, that would be our concern, especially on
17 smaller lots and compatibility and drainage
18 issues in dealing with the height. We've seen a
19 lot of controversial AD requests in Mandarin and
20 in the
21 So we feel that the finished floor
22 elevation -- they can still put, you know, the
23 garages in that space that's not habitable
24 space, but you could park a car down underneath
25 the dwelling. That doesn't count.
Diane M.
Tropia,
8
1 But it's our fear that it's going to
2 encourage, really, more tree removal by causing
3 people to fill their lots higher and elevate
4 unnecessarily the lot by, you know, providing
5 more fill. So we would request that the term
6 "required finished floor" would be the essential
7 starting point from how you measure height.
8 Additionally, in the RLD -- what was the
9 RLD-D is now the RLD-90 zoning district. We
10 felt that going down to five feet side yards --
11 from seven and a half to five feet minimum was
12 problematic. We were fine with five feet on one
13 side, but we feel that there's a lot of existing
14 property owners and homes in the city and that
15 they're kind of -- there's a lot of property in
16 the city that is zoned RLD-D and we felt that, I
17 guess, being able to reduce that setback to five
18 feet on both sides of the lot would diminish the
19 open space -- or perceived open space that
20 residents think they have in their -- in those
21 quarter-acre lot sizes, so we were opposed to
22 that as well.
23 Other than that, with the -- dealing with
24 accessory structures, we have a ---- although
25 this could be the subject of another bill at
Diane M.
Tropia,
9
1 another time, which is my understanding, it
2 might actually go that route, but we have a
3 written interpretation right now that we use in
4 evaluating whether or not accessory structures
5 are -- in residential districts, are incidental
6 and residential in character. And so we've got
7 a 900 square foot limitation that we enforce
8 right now through a written interpretation that
9 was done and signed by the director back in
10 June.
11 So we're comfortable with removing it as
12 part of this bill and would, you know, welcome
13 any kind of feedback and changes.
14 Those do become problematic in some of the
15 areas when people are putting in large metal
16 buildings and stuff in a small lot area and
17 really close to the property line. So we would
18 be opposed to that at this point, but we are
19 open to going through that at another time, so
20 we wouldn't oppose it being struck for now.
21 Additionally, the setbacks for accessory
22 structures are actually being increased with the
23 Fussell amendment from three feet, which is the
24 current requirement, to five feet. We felt that
25 keeping it at three feet -- going to five feet
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 would make a lot of properties now nonconforming
2 as a result of that change.
3 We've permitted thousands of accessory
4 structures at the three-foot setback, provided
5 they are, obviously, incidental and residential
6 in character and less than the 900 square feet.
7 We feel the three feet is appropriate.
8 The only other change dealt with dollar
9 amounts, specifically with regards to new
10 developments, and it's basically a fee per lot
11 for recreation -- public recreation amenities
12 and contributions to a park fund. And that
13 dollar amount as originally proposed was $250.
14 However, recently the department got some input
15 from a parks planner who did an analysis of
16 basically what it cost per person per park, and
17 that analysis came out to $485 per person based
18 on the property appraiser's database information
19 and a review of all the costs associated with
20 the park amenities.
21 And so we felt the 250 was a little low and
22 we requested to double that to 500 per dwelling
23 unit instead of the $250 per dwelling unit.
24 So those are, I guess, the four or so
25 changes that we would still have issue with at
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 this point.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, did any of this
3 discussion come up when you guys were going
4 through all this stuff?
5 MR. KELLY: The draft, I guess,
6 legislation, it did come up. And the draft
7 legislation was made available to the department
8 about a week and a half ago. So we, as a
9 department, went through it and some of the
10 newer information. Especially regarding the
11 parks situation, that dollar amount was new
12 information to us that we had gotten in front
13 of, and so it wasn't actually before the
14 committee. The committee had stopped meeting
15 some time ago. In preparing the legislation,
16 we're trying to work through it.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: So the dollar amount of the
18 parks is the only thing that's new, that you've
19 had new information from the time you guys
20 agreed upon the draft?
21 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are on the Fussell
23 amendment -- I'm sorry -- the Fussell sub.
24 Either one of you guys want to throw
25 anything in there?
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. DAVIS: I'll be more than happy to if
2 you want.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
4 MR. DAVIS: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the
5 opportunity. And I, obviously, would yield to
6 the president.
7 MR. FUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I'll hear some
8 today, and then maybe I can wrap up and bring
9 some closure --
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
11 MR. FUSSELL: -- to how long we've been
12 down this path and how we got here and how good
13 it is.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Davis.
15 MR. DAVIS: I think that this has been
16 needed for a long time, Mr. Chairman.
17 We've done -- as a group, done PUDs for a
18 long time clearly because our code has not been
19 up to speed. I think that some of the arguments
20 that the department is making, they don't hold
21 water with me. I would strongly encourage you
22 to support the Fussell sub.
23 I believe especially on the dollar value,
24 now is not the time to increase fees on anybody
25 who is thinking about trying to own a home or
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 purchase a home. No matter what, I think that
2 any time we have the opportunity to help someone
3 get into a home at a more affordable price --
4 and I think that President Fussell can give you
5 some background.
6 But from the reports that I received, the
7 industry started off real low, the department
8 started off high, and President Fussell kind of
9 came somewhere in the middle.
10 So hopefully you guys will support the
11 Fussell sub because I think it's the exact right
12 thing we need to do to help clean up a lot of
13 the things that we should have done a long time
14 ago.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
16 President Fussell, you want to be on the
17 sub or the bill?
18 MR. FUSSELL: Well, if you're going to
19 change my sub in any way, I'd like to speak to
20 the sub. But if you're going to pass the sub
21 the way it is, I'll wait till you get to the
22 bill. I was going to see if you had any debate
23 with that. If not --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, hold on, President.
25 We have Mr. Holt first.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. FUSSELL: Yes, sir.
2 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
3 I have a couple of questions. First to
4 Mr. Kelly.
5 Is this sheet accurate to the sub
6 (indicating) other than --
7 MR. KELLY: There's two changes on that
8 sheet that are not reflective of the
9 substitute. One has to do with our proposed
10 side yard setbacks in the RLD-D, which is five,
11 slash, combined 15 for side yards. And then the
12 other has to do with the potential for --
13 MR. HOLT: I don't really understand the --
14 MR. KELLY: -- unlimited, I guess, height in
15 the multifamily. We wanted to cap that at
16 60 feet in lieu of the one-to-one setback, which
17 could go higher than that.
18 MR. HOLT: Those two I had some questions
19 on. I didn't really understand what you were
20 saying on the RLD-D or -- and also I wanted to
21 ask you about the -- the height and what you
22 meant by the floor, the floor heights; the real
23 height and then the floor height. Can you
24 explain that to me again?
25 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Height today is measured based upon the
2 FEMA's base flood elevation, and so they
3 mandate -- the federal government, through FEMA,
4 mandates a specific base flood elevation. Any
5 kind of habitable space that you want to build
6 on that lot has to be elevated at least one foot
7 above that base flood elevation, which is your
8 required finished floor, and that's codified now
9 with the adoption of the overlay.
10 MR. HOLT: Okay. Stop at required finished
11 floor. What do you mean by required finished
12 floor as opposed to finished floor?
13 MR. KELLY: Finished floor -- required
14 finished floor is one foot above the base flood
15 elevation. If somebody decides to build six
16 feet above the base flood elevation, then that
17 elevates that house five more feet unnecessarily
18 in our view.
19 MR. HOLT: Okay. And that is important
20 here because the maximum is five combined
21 fifteen?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: No. The maximum height
23 is 35.
24 MR. KELLY: Thirty-five feet for the
25 height. The setbacks are the five combined
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 fifteen. They're currently seven-and-a-half on
2 each side.
3 MR. HOLT: Okay. But the height is where I
4 had my question.
5 What was the change on that?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, the different -- if I
7 may, the difference is -- trust me. Living at
8 the beach, I've lived height.
9 But the way it is right now, it is --
10 wherever FEMA says the floor has to be, it's a
11 foot above that is where basically you start
12 counting. And it's 35 feet from there up is
13 where you cap the height.
14 And -- is that what Mr. Fussell --
15 MR. FUSSELL: No.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
17 MR. DAVIS: I'd love to maybe give a
18 real-life example and see if Mr. Kelly
19 understands my current situation.
20 When I built my house, I built a stem wall
21 and I went three blocks up. Could have gone one
22 block up and would have been fine. Now, is it
23 your opinion that that's going to change the
24 drainage on my lot because I went three blocks
25 up?
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. KELLY: Again, not with a stem wall,
2 but the potential to add more fill to a lot to
3 elevate a lot unnecessarily above what the FEMA
4 people say is the required finished floor
5 elevation. So --
6 MR. DAVIS: I don't know -- I mean, I don't
7 know where that information would come from, but
8 I guess what you'd say at that point is if
9 somebody decides to build their -- to start
10 their finished floor elevation higher than
11 what's required, you don't want them to have --
12 they're going to be under a height restriction.
13 MS. ELLER: It's going to come off the top.
14 MR. DAVIS: Yeah. Basically my house would
15 have been three feet shorter than it is now.
16 MR. KELLY: Correct.
17 Well, right now it's measured from the
18 elevation at the -- you know, at the --
19 essentially at the front door of the elevation
20 of that house.
21 If you're in a flood-prone area and you
22 have a six-foot base flood elevation and your
23 habitable space doesn't count -- start until
24 seven feet, the height is not being measured
25 until you get to that seven foot and then you go
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 35 feet. So you're technically a 42-foot-high
2 house. So that first -- you're not penalized
3 for the first three or four feet on that in that
4 situation.
5 MR. DAVIS: Okay. Well, I think there's
6 two things at play. Number one, it's very
7 expensive to do that and you're not going to see
8 that. It's very expensive to bring fill dirt
9 in, and I think that's prohibitive, cost
10 prohibitive.
11 I think that -- I understand the concerns
12 of the Planning Department. I just think
13 they're not -- that's not going to happen very
14 often as far as what I can see in the industry.
15 MR. HOLT: Okay. I had one situation like
16 that out on
17 extent of my experience on that.
18 My other question, Mr. Kelly, was about
19 this $500 per home for the parks.
20 Actually, that would be -- let me ask
21 through the Chair to President Fussell, was it
22 your hope that we would find a middle ground
23 here at about 250 so that we would encourage
24 people to pay into this fund?
25 Because actually that's my hope. I'd
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 rather have people pay into the fund and build
2 our parks rather than having someone be required
3 to have a little neighborhood park because I'm
4 of the opinion that they never get used.
5 MR. FUSSELL: You're exactly right, through
6 the Chair to Mr. Holt. And the industry and the
7 community started about $100 a lot. The
8 Planning Department, you know, was higher than
9 that. I think at one time actually higher than
10 the 500.
11 I came to the middle of the road because
12 this doesn't affect every development. It has a
13 threshold, a ceiling. You know, it's only up to
14 the 99 units. And the same exact reason was
15 you've got all these tiny, little parks inside
16 subdivisions that are not used or they're
17 misused is what -- a lot of the feedback that I
18 got.
19 So this way you'd at least collect dollars
20 on those smaller 25-, 40-lot subdivisions that
21 could be used for your park that has a greater
22 need. And so that dollar figure rationale at a
23 25- -- let's say a 30-lot subdivision is the
24 dollar amount you're going to pick up for that,
25 somebody would much rather pay that.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 If you raise it up too high, they'll say,
2 well, I'll go spend that amount, put this little
3 park in and I'm done.
4 So that was the encouragement of it.
5 Let's -- I mean, how many times have you heard
6 us propose to create a fee? Well, I think this
7 fee will actually accomplish some things,
8 especially if your district councilmen and women
9 that -- you know, have some park issues as the
10 development starts to come back.
11 So that was the intent of it, Mr. Holt.
12 MR. HOLT: Okay. I'm good.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: President Fussell, was that
15 University of Georgia math where halfway between
16 500 and 100 is 250? I mean, I'm just kind of
17 curious.
18 MR. FUSSELL: Fifty percent math or are you
19 talking about the 42 to 10? What are you
20 talking about?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost, nothing?
22 MR. JOOST: No.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We've moved the
24 Fussell amendment -- I'm sorry -- the Fussell
25 sub and second.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Any further discussion on the Fussell sub?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor signify by
4 saying aye.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
9 approved the sub.
10 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as substituted.
11 MR. JOOST: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
13 seconded as substituted.
14 Mr. Fussell.
15 MR. FUSSELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
16 committee members and staff, everyone that's
17 worked on this.
18 This project has been around, I believe,
19 since Mr. Corrigan was president and instructed
20 us to start the rewrite, in which we spent many
21 hours. Most of the staff over from the Planning
22 Department that's here -- Shannon Eller, and
23 some of those that aren't here. And I want to
24 thank everybody for all the hard work, and a lot
25 of the community that came, the industries that
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
22
1 are represented.
2 And it's a culmination of actually
3 something that needed to be done for many years
4 because of the way that -- the marketplace that
5 we were dealing with -- really we were dealing
6 with two years ago.
7 Today we're dealing in an even totally
8 different market from that, but I believe this
9 will complement that market. It will encourage
10 that market, and it will simplify for the
11 Planning Department, for the consumer that's out
12 there, exactly what they can do with their
13 property, how they can build their house, do
14 their accessory structures, do their setbacks,
15 development. All that will simplify it, and
16 that's one of the things we were trying to
17 accomplish.
18 But now, you know, most of the houses that
19 are built on the marketplace -- the reason --
20 when you get back to the five-foot setback on a
21 90-foot lot, well, if you do a 15-foot combined
22 side yard, you're not going to get people doing
23 90-foot lots. They're going to do an 80 because
24 they can do a five foot. So you won't get
25 90-foot lots.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 So, you know, there were a lot of things
2 that took a lot of time and effort and a lot of
3 input on that went into this.
4 So, you know, the Planning Department was
5 about 90 percent true, that some of these we
6 just -- there were a couple of things I saw
7 earlier when I saw the two pages that we hadn't
8 discussed before, and that's why I wanted to
9 minimize the sub to the things we'd actually had
10 discussions on, come to some resolution on, and
11 I think Mr. Kelly agreed.
12 The same difference in the actual versus
13 the elevation, the one foot above the flood
14 elevation, is that there are some real life
15 stories. Most houses today are built with stem
16 walls. The majority that's built out there,
17 they aren't monolithic slabs anymore where you
18 would fill that whole site out. You'd do it by
19 stem walls.
20 Not only that, most people aren't going to
21 afford five foot of additional fill, and not
22 only that, there's going to be some inspectors
23 along the way or designers along the way that
24 are not going to allow those kind of things to
25 happen.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 So, in realistic terms, you didn't want to
2 have somebody draw their house down or cut --
3 you get the 35 feet no matter where. It's just
4 where you measure from.
5 And so in this day and time, you know, with
6 the stem walls and those things, it makes more
7 sense to me to take it from your actual -- what
8 if you accidently filled six feet above it when
9 they certified -- six inches above where you
10 were, they certified it and you built your house
11 to the 35 feet? Well, you'd have to go get a
12 variance or cut the top six inches off your
13 house to meet that 35 feet. And so it's not
14 truly logical. Let's go from what actually is
15 in place there.
16 So those are the kind of rationale that we
17 used in, you know, trying to be practical with
18 it and came up with something that actually
19 could be applied and useful and to the
20 marketplace.
21 So I applaud everybody that worked on it.
22 Like I say, it wasn't always a happy thing
23 around there, but we came to that place and
24 everybody worked on it.
25 I know Mr. Deal (phonetic) and several
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
25
1 other people from the community that came to a
2 lot of -- we actually had a lot of public
3 meetings and discussions on this, so I
4 appreciate your support and I'll be happy to
5 field any more questions.
6 But thank you for allowing me the
7 opportunity to speak, Mr. Chairman.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, President
9 Fussell, for coming down.
10 Is there anything else to add to 2008-969?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
13 ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
21 the vote.
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
25 approved 2008-969.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
26
1 Councilmember Davis, are you here for
2 anything else other than that one?
3 MR. DAVIS: 2008-910.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: 2008-910. We have a public
5 hearing, so we will open that public hearing.
6 And seeing no speakers, we will close that
7 public hearing.
8 The amendment. Can I get someone to move
9 the amendment, please?
10 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
11 MR. HOLT: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment is moved and
13 seconded.
14 Can we hear the amendment?
15 MS. ELLER: Yes.
16 To the committee, the amendment is
17 contained in the Planning Department staff
18 report, and it really is just technical changes,
19 and I think Sean and John can go over them with
20 you.
21 It is, you know, defining who the chief is,
22 cleaning up some cross-references and the like.
23 I don't believe there's anything substantive in
24 those changes.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And, Ms. Eller, we'll take
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 your word for that.
2 Any further discussion on the amendment?
3 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, there's, I guess,
4 some verbiage that we do need to strike if
5 Shannon -- I just want to --
6 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
7 MR. KELLY: Yes. Okay. Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Are we good on the
9 amendment?
10 MS. ELLER: (Nods head.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor say aye.
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
16 approved the amendment.
17 MR. HOLT: Move the bill as amended.
18 MR. JOOST: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
20 seconded as amended.
21 Any further discussion on the bill?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: President Fussell.
24 MR. FUSSELL: Thank you again, Mr. Chairman
25 and colleagues.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 This is another one of those bills that
2 started two years ago. And I appreciate, again,
3 the same folks, all the hard work that was done.
4 What this bill actually does too is
5 simplifies that -- where we kind of codified the
6 charter, which we say in some -- say
7 definitively what we had to do and superseded
8 our ordinance. And our ordinance was saying
9 some old things, so we kind of brought them all
10 together where the developer, Joe Public, Joe
11 Councilman, Joe Councilwoman, we could all
12 understand and know that we were meeting the
13 standard that's been laid out by the charter
14 which superceded that.
15 And so I appreciate everybody's hard work
16 in that, but that will accomplish that goal and
17 hopefully keep this moving forward.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 Mr. Kelly, we were asked -- I'm sorry --
20 Mr. Holt asked me to ask you for the 50,000-foot
21 overview of what we did.
22 MR. HOLT: On this one too.
23 MR. KELLY: I would, again, just reiterate,
24 Council President Fussell -- about consistency,
25 bringing consistency again with the charter
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 amendment. That, and I'll defer to Shannon. I
2 think she's --
3 MS. ELLER: Sure.
4 I actually worked on the bill more so than
5 the Planning Department because the purpose was
6 to make it consistent with the City of
7 Jacksonville charter.
8 As you all are aware, the charter has very
9 specific requirements for tree mitigation and
10 for preservation of trees, and what we found is
11 that the ordinance code had some different
12 requirements. So anyone that was reading the
13 ordinance code may look at it and think that
14 they had met the minimum requirements for tree
15 preservation and then find out in the charter
16 that the trees either needed to be larger or
17 there needed to be more of them or they needed
18 to be a different type, so we made that
19 consistent.
20 We went through and codified about five or
21 ten different policy memos that had been issued
22 through our landscape shop over the past five or
23 six years, so that way any -- again, any one
24 practicing within the City of Jacksonville
25 wouldn't have to look at the charter and the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 ordinance code and the stack of policy memos
2 that you get when you go down to the Building
3 Inspection Division. So we felt like it was a
4 cleanup.
5 I will mention to the group that the
6 Planning Department is working on another
7 substantive study group on things like the
8 xeroscape -- potential for xeroscape and
9 potential for other types of irrigation
10 standards that are not required by the Florida
11 Statutes but that may be coming on line in the
12 next few years.
13 So there is another work group on those
14 other issues, but this really was intended to be
15 a technical cleanup for consistency with the
16 charter.
17 MR. HOLT: Okay.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Anything else?
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
21 ballot.
22 (Committee ballot opened.)
23 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
4 the vote.
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
8 approved 2008-910.
9 MR. FUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, colleagues,
10 thank you very much.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. President,
12 for coming down, and Councilman Davis.
13 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's go back to the
15 beginning of the agenda.
16 And I'm going to go through the agenda.
17 I've learned after that last meeting, so I'll
18 let you know all the bills that we won't take
19 any action on so you're not sitting through this
20 long LUZ meeting and you find out at the end
21 that we're not doing anything to your bills.
22 We'll start at the beginning of page 2.
23 2005-1228 is being deferred. 2006-24 is being
24 deferred. 2006-220 is being deferred. 2006-658
25 is being deferred. 2007-581 is being deferred.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 2007-1086, we're going to take action on.
2 Top of page 4. 2008-414 is deferred, -416
3 is being deferred, -418 is being deferred, -517
4 is being deferred, -541 is deferred, -542, -546,
5 -549, all being deferred.
6 Top of page 6. -550, -552 being deferred,
7 -562 is being deferred, -565 is being deferred.
8 Top of page 7. -716 we're taking action,
9 -784 is going to be deferred, -799 is going to
10 be deferred, -840 is going to be deferred.
11 -852, we're taking action. -853, we're taking
12 action. -854 is being deferred. -855, we're
13 taking action.
14 Top of page 9. -880 is being deferred,
15 -889 is being deferred, -890 is being deferred,
16 -891 is being deferred.
17 Top of page 10. -892 is being deferred.
18 -893 is being deferred. We've already done --
19 we've already done -910. -929 is being
20 deferred, -930 is being deferred, -931 is being
21 deferred, -933 we're taking action, -934 is
22 deferred, -935 is deferred.
23 Top of page 12,, -936 is deferred, -937 is
24 deferred, we've done -969, -970 is being
25 deferred. -971 is an appeal, and that will be
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 the last thing we take up on the agenda.
2 -992 is -- we're taking action -- I'm
3 sorry -- -972, we're taking action. -973, we're
4 taking action. -974, we're taking action.
5 -975, we're taking action.
6 The last page, -984, -85, -86, -87, -88,
7 -89 are all seconded and rereferred.
8 Now that we all know what we're doing,
9 let's go to the bottom of page 3, 2007-1086.
10 We will open that public hearing.
11 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
12 hearing and we have a substitute.
13 MR. HOLT: Move the sub.
14 MR. CLARK: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub has been moved and
16 seconded.
17 Any discussion on the sub?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Can we hear the sub?
20 MS. ELLER: Yes.
21 To the committee, the substitute is
22 changing the application back to a request to go
23 from commercial office to CCG-1 as it was
24 originally filed.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Any discussion?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, are you here for this
3 bill?
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir. I'm just here
5 representing the property owner.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, okay.
7 Any discussion on the sub?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
10 say aye.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
15 approved the sub.
16 MR. HOLT: Move to rerefer.
17 MR. CLARK: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
19 to rerefer back to LUZ as substituted.
20 Any further discussion on the rereferral?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
23 ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
10 approved -1086.
11 All of 4 we're deferring. All of 5 we're
12 deferring.
13 Page 6, 2008-562. We'll open the public
14 hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
16 public hearing and take no further action.
17 -565, we'll open that public hearing.
18 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
19 public hearing and take no further action.
20 Top of page 7. 2008-716. We'll open that
21 public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
23 hearing.
24 We have --
25 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. CLARK: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
3 and seconded.
4 Can we hear the amendment, please.
5 MR. CROFTS: Yes. The amendment is as
6 follows: There are five conditions. They
7 include:
8 Number 1, "The developer shall be subject
9 to the original legal description dated June
10 1st, 2008."
11 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
12 to the original written description dated
13 August 8, 2008."
14 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
15 to the revised site plan dated July 30, 2008."
16 Number 4, "The required transportation
17 improvements shall be made in accordance with
18 the revised Development Services memorandum
19 dated October 27, 2008, or as otherwise approved
20 by the Planning and Development Department."
21 Condition number 5, "The fence along the
22 north and east property lines shall be
23 100 percent opaque, vinyl, or vinyl composite.
24 No chain-link fence with slats shall be
25 permitted."
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Thank you. That's it.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
3 Is the applicant here?
4 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: This -- was the applicant at
6 the Planning Commission meeting?
7 MR. KELLY: Yes.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: And he was fine with these?
9 MR. KELLY: Yes.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
11 Any further discussion on the amendment?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
14 say aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
19 approved the amendment.
20 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
21 MR. CLARK: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
23 seconded as amended.
24 Any further discussion on the bill?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
2 ballot.
3 (Committee ballot opened.)
4 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
14 approved -716.
15 -784, we'll open the public hearing.
16 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
17 public hearing and take no further action.
18 -799, we'll open the public hearing.
19 We have a Sawyer, Valane.
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Valarie.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn't
22 read that. It looked like an "n" rather than an
23 "r-i."
24 Come on down.
25 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, your name and address
2 for the record, and you have three minutes.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Valarie Sawyer, 4106
4 Woodley Creek Road.
5 I'm here for the property on 9821 Ribault
6 Avenue.
7 The property -- the land is actually deemed
8 already as a CCG and has been a CCG since 1930.
9 However, it was a vacant lot and a home has been
10 built on it, which I have purchased.
11 From the corner of Ribault Road to
12 Lem Turner Road, all of those properties are
13 commercial properties. The properties from
14 Ribault up to 2nd Avenue is also commercial
15 properties, but it's vacant lots. This
16 property, that hasn't been actually -- anything
17 actually hasn't been built on.
18 However, when I purchased the property, it
19 was a commercial property and I had -- did my
20 research on the property. But what I wasn't
21 aware of, that when the realtor had purchased
22 the property, in order for them to build a home
23 there, they had to -- they had a grant. And in
24 order for them to build a home, they had to have
25 a PUD placed on the property, so it's a PUD
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 placed in the middle of a commercial zoning
2 area.
3 I would like to -- the center that I'm
4 opening -- I would like to open is Life Care
5 Center, which is a nonprofit organization whose
6 mission is to provide --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, you need to pull that
8 mic over a little because we can't hear you.
9 Sorry.
10 MS. SAWYER: I'm sorry.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: That's all right.
12 MS. SAWYER: Is that okay?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
14 MS. SAWYER: Whose mission is to provide
15 quality care, support services, and educational
16 needs to the elderly, veterans, and disabled
17 within the city of Jacksonville.
18 Being a registered nurse with experience
19 and also a certified health care administrator,
20 I have recognized a tremendous need within the
21 community concerning housing for the elderly
22 with health care needs.
23 Many elderly require additional aid with
24 medicine administration, specialty diets,
25 dressing, and requirements for everyday living.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Nursing homes and specialty hospitals are
2 options which are costly and at times very
3 difficult to reside in due to bed availability
4 and capacity issues.
5 For this reason, I have requested a
6 rezoning of 9821 Ribault Avenue to provide these
7 services. I do recognize, however, concerns
8 within the community and reference to an
9 assisted living center in the neighborhood. I
10 have been working diligently with the planning
11 and zoning committee to ensure a safe
12 environment within the property limits of 9821
13 Ribault Avenue, to the citizens who live within
14 the community.
15 Also, under the direction of DOT,
16 additional parking services will be added to
17 modify traffic and prevent further -- any type
18 of motor vehicle accidents.
19 Overall, Life Care Center will be a
20 rewarding aspect of Jacksonville by providing
21 well-needed assistance to senior citizens,
22 veterans, and disabled in the Jacksonville
23 area. Providing the rezoning for the above
24 address will be a much needed commodity for the
25 city of Jacksonville.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
3 Any other speakers?
4 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other speakers,
6 we'll continue that public hearing and take no
7 further action.
8 Ma'am, have you spoken with the district
9 councilmember on this?
10 MS. SAWYER: Yes, I have. We've spoken on
11 several occasions.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
13 Let the record show that she said she has.
14 The bottom of page 7, 2008-840, we've
15 already deferred that.
16 Top of page 8, -852. We will open that
17 public hearing.
18 We have Myra Jays.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jones.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Jones. Sorry. Come on
21 down.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
24 record, and you have three minutes, ma'am.
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Myra Jones, 111 Riverside
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida 32202.
2 I'm here on behalf of the YMCA in support
3 of the project, acting as agent.
4 I have no further comments except that I
5 support it.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Hold on. You may
7 have to agree to the amendment.
8 Are there any other speakers?
9 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we'll close
11 that public hearing.
12 Can we hear the amendment?
13 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment.
14 MR. JOOST: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
16 and seconded.
17 Can we hear the amendment?
18 MR. CROFTS: Through the Chair, or to the
19 Chair, the amendment is strictly a technical
20 amendment dealing with the legal description
21 that was revised and submitted to us about the
22 11th of November.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Sounds good
24 enough.
25 I'm sure you're fine with that.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MS. JONES: Yes, sir.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor of the
3 amendment say aye.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
8 the amendment.
9 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
10 MR. HOLT: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
12 seconded as amended.
13 Any discussion on the bill?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
16 ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote.
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved 2008-852.
3 Thank you, ma'am.
4 MS. JONES: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: -853, we'll open that public
6 hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
8 hearing.
9 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and --
11 MR. CLARK: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: -- seconded to withdraw with
13 fees.
14 Any discussion on the withdrawal?
15 MR. CLARK: Why are we returning the fees?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The question was, why are we
17 returning the fees?
18 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to Councilman
19 Clark, this rezoning was filed incorrectly.
20 There's a -- it turns out, because of the
21 individual lots that the applicant was proposing
22 to rezone, that they're already lots of record
23 and a single-family dwelling can be built on
24 each of those lots currently. And also with the
25 residential rewrite going forward, it made it a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 moot point. And so it was probably accepted
2 prematurely and processed, but we didn't write a
3 report, and so we're recommending withdrawal.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 Any other discussion on withdrawal with
6 fees?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
9 ballot.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved 2008-853 to be withdrawn.
21 -854, we'll open the public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
23 public hearing and take no further action.
24 -855, we'll open the public hearing.
25 We have M.A. -- you'll have to help me with
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1 that last name.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Shaikh, just like shake
3 hands.
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. I didn't
6 want to butcher it.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's all right.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
9 record, please, and you have three minutes.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is M.A. Shaikh.
11 I live at 10102 Leisure Lane North.
12 I'm representing the Islamic Center of
13 Northeast Florida, the applicant. I'm the
14 vice-chairman, board of trustees.
15 And I have a couple more photographs that
16 I'm requesting the secretary to pass on to the
17 members.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You can go ahead.
19 MR. SHAIKH: The Islamic Center is a
20 nonprofit 501C [sic] organization, and we
21 received the 501(c)(3) status in 1979. We
22 purchased that property in 1982 and the Islamic
23 Center has been there since then.
24 We have a sign that is four feet inside our
25 property line. However, there is a 49-foot
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 right-of-way right in front of our property.
2 That means the sign is 53 feet from the east end
3 of St. Johns Bluff Road.
4 As you will notice from the photograph,
5 it's a small, modest sign just to identify the
6 place of worship. And our next-door neighbor
7 has a huge sign, almost 18, 20 feet, to make it
8 visible. And, obviously, anything like that
9 would be inappropriate to have in front of a
10 place of worship.
11 And that is why we requested that we be
12 allowed to have this waiver, so that the sign
13 could be four feet inside our property rather
14 than ten feet.
15 I'll be happy to answer any questions.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: So this waiver is going to
17 move your sign closer to the street?
18 MR. SHAIKH: No. The sign stays where it
19 is.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: You just want to be able to
21 leave the sign where it is?
22 MR. SHAIKH: Yes, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Gotcha.
24 MR. SHAIKH: Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Mr. Clark.
2 MR. CLARK: Thank you.
3 Through the Chair, just further
4 clarification. This sign exists right now,
5 today, just like it is, right?
6 MR. SHAIKH: Yes, sir.
7 MR. CLARK: And all we want to do is get
8 the -- make it okay?
9 MR. SHAIKH: Absolutely, sir.
10 MR. CLARK: Okay. Thank you.
11 MR. SHAIKH: Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Are we good?
13 I need an amendment to either grant or
14 deny.
15 MR. CLARK: Move to grant.
16 MR. REDMAN: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: There's been a move to grant
18 the waiver and seconded.
19 Any discussion on the amendment to grant
20 the waiver?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
23 say aye.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approved the amendment to grant the waiver.
4 Now we're going to move the bill to grant
5 the waiver.
6 MR. CLARK: Move it.
7 MR. HOLT: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: And it's been moved and
9 seconded.
10 Any further discussion?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
13 ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
20 the vote.
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
24 approved -855 to grant the waiver.
25 Sir, thanks for coming down.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. SHAIKH: Thank you very much.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 9. -880 we
3 deferred.
4 -889, we're going to open the public
5 hearing.
6 No speakers. Close that public hearing and
7 take no further action.
8 -890, we'll open that public hearing.
9 No speakers. We will continue that public
10 hearing and take no further action.
11 -891, open the public hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
13 public hearing and take no further action.
14 Top of page 10. -892, we will open that
15 public hearing.
16 We have a couple of cards. Gary Crumley,
17 followed by John.
18 Come on down, John.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, good evening.
21 John Reyes, 550 Water Street, Jacksonville
22 Florida, 32202, representing Visit Jacksonville
23 and the 378 partners that earn their living in
24 tourism and hospitality each day.
25 We are here as an industry to show our
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1 support for cruise ship tourism and the cruise
2 ship terminal. Our basis is really based on the
3 positive economic impact that tourism and cruise
4 ship tourism provides Jacksonville.
5 Some key information for the committee to
6 know, based on CLIA, which is a cruise line
7 industry association 2006 study, which is an
8 independent study, talks about 40 percent of all
9 passengers coming to a home port city and
10 staying pre and post trips, staying in our
11 hotels, and our restaurants, and enjoying our
12 beaches and the transportation services that we
13 offer.
14 Additionally, on an average, an overnight
15 visitor spends about $289 while they are here.
16 Based on that data, on a 2,000-passenger ship,
17 which is what we have here in the Fantasy, it
18 has an economic impact of over $322,000, which
19 in this day and age, as we are sliding into an
20 economic disopportunity, we have an opportunity
21 to secure that kind of industry.
22 Interesting enough, when you talk about
23 Carnival and you talk about Fascination, you
24 really talk about 78 embarkations which, bottom
25 line, generates $25 million in economic impact.
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1 And, in closing, Florida is the cruise
2 capital of the world. It would be a missed
3 opportunity for Jacksonville to not have the
4 cruise ship business here, especially on the
5 positive economic benefit that it portrays.
6 And then, finally, a snapshot of our future
7 is -- during the summer, when we did not have a
8 cruise ship, we found our airport hotels
9 dropping in occupancy to about 12 percent. That
10 12 percent -- 6 percent of that 12 percent was
11 attributed to a decline in occupancy. And not
12 only did the hotels feel it, the workers felt
13 it, as well as the restaurants and the
14 transportation services.
15 So, again, Visit Jacksonville, our 378
16 partners, encourage the committee to look at the
17 positive impact. And I think bottom line, this
18 is good for Jacksonville.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
21 We have Alyce Decker. If I'm saying the
22 name incorrectly, I'm sorry.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: No?
25 Leslie Goller.
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
3 My name is Leslie Goller. I live at 2247
4 Smullian Trail South.
5 I have represented the City of Jacksonville
6 for seven years on the Environmental Protection
7 Board as an environmental activist, and I speak
8 today against 2008-892 and -893.
9 The reason why I speak against it is,
10 contrary to the prior speaker, I don't think
11 Jacksonville wants to be the destination to
12 leave from. That's not what Jacksonville is
13 trying to represent itself as being. We want to
14 be an eco-tourist center and not this
15 destination to leave from.
16 Why I think this is an inappropriate place
17 to be locating a cruise terminal is Mayport is
18 one of the last vestiges of old Florida that we
19 have left. It's a shrimping and fishing village
20 and it's inappropriate to be locating a cruise
21 terminal at this location.
22 They're talking about -- and I ask you to
23 look at the estimate of the number of cars that
24 they have per cruise ship. We're talking about
25 potentially two-and-a-half cruise ships. They
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1 estimate -- I think it's 350 cars per cruise
2 ship. I think that's a gross underestimation.
3 But, at any point, what they themselves
4 propose is a five-story parking garage to be
5 located there. Totally inappropriate for the
6 area. It will be at least as tall as what the
7 lighthouse is at Mayport. That's not what --
8 the type of economic benefit we want coming to
9 Jacksonville.
10 What you do need to do is weigh the
11 financial benefits and the financial detriment
12 that's being caused. We're talking about a very
13 small road that leads out to Mayport. What's
14 going to happen to that road in order to get
15 these minimally 350 times two-and-a-half cars
16 going in and out of Mayport? Is that what we
17 want to have for that area? We haven't even
18 talked about the pollution coming out of the
19 stacks of the cruise ship.
20 This is not what Jacksonville needs, and I
21 ask you to reconsider the situation.
22 It's particularly inappropriate for
23 Mayport. We need to be trying to save the last
24 vestiges of Florida. We have very little of it
25 left. When I first moved here in 1983, you
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1 know, Mandarin didn't exist. It was farmland,
2 it was trees. Now it's wall-to-wall
3 development, strip shopping centers, and housing
4 developments. We need to preserve what we've
5 got left.
6 We want to try to promote ourselves as an
7 eco-friendly environment. This is not the way
8 to do that.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
11 Donald Hart? Harbord?
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Harris.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Donald Harris at 1256
16 (Inaudible) Drive.
17 I represent several hotels on Airport
18 Road. I am the chairman of the JIMC, all the
19 airport -- all the airport businesses, as well
20 as the mall on Airport Road.
21 And the thing I want to speak about is the
22 economic impact is just so strong for us.
23 (Inaudible) in our hotel group own the Holiday
24 Inn at the airport. And our hotel alone for one
25 year is $350,000 a year. Now, that's just one
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1 hotel. And I know that Mr. Reyes spoke about
2 $25,000 for a year. The time that we did not
3 have the cruise line here this past summer, we
4 probably lost about $5 million in regards to the
5 hotels.
6 And one of the things that we look at is
7 that is probably the time in the summer that we
8 need the business the most. And as far as our
9 industry, it's called a need period, in a sense
10 that -- when we wind up getting the cruise
11 business, it was kind of like a rainbow of gold
12 that kind of showed up at our doorsteps, so we
13 really do appreciate and really do embrace that
14 business.
15 And we're talking about, per cruise line,
16 approximately 2,000 people. It makes all the
17 difference of our year.
18 And as far as owners of hotels, they have
19 built hotels for the future to represent the
20 cruise line industry. So, in a sense, it would
21 be a shame to see it go away. But we are
22 excited about it. We really are.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
25 MR. HOLT: Could I ask a question?
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Hold on a second.
2 The last speaker, Claude Collins.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you and good
5 evening.
6 My name is Claude Collins. I reside at
7 17330 Elsinore Drive here in Jacksonville.
8 And I won't belabor some of the numbers
9 that came from John, which I support
10 100 percent. I just want to talk a little bit
11 in support of the importance of the cruise
12 industry. The cruise industry is an important
13 part of the tourism product in the city of
14 Jacksonville.
15 Just the figure that he mentioned with the
16 78 cruises and the potential revenue from the
17 Fascination of $25 million, over 122,000 jobs in
18 Duval County, is really unreplaceable by many
19 things in this day and time.
20 The future of the industry is in jeopardy,
21 though, and your help is needed to save it.
22 Loss of the cruise business will mean a
23 significant decrease in hotel rooms, restaurant
24 sales, airline flights, and the jobs that go
25 with it.
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1 It appears the problem is that it measures
2 so poorly against the very lucrative import
3 industry that we're blessed with at the
4 Jacksonville Port. That doesn't take away from
5 its meaningful benefits.
6 Other than the cruise terminal itself, very
7 little development has to be done. All the
8 needed airlines, hotels, restaurants, and
9 transportation facilities are here and in place,
10 even for future development in the cruise
11 industry that many anticipate for the future.
12 Very little has been said about the
13 industry since its beginning in 2003. There's
14 been a steady flow of business that's created
15 very little impact on the local economy and has
16 had very -- and has had a definite benefit on
17 the travel industry.
18 I hope you'll support this project, and I
19 appreciate your time.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
22 I have no further speakers, so we will
23 continue that public hearing and take no further
24 action.
25 -893, we will open that public hearing. I
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1 only have one additional card, which was John.
2 Do you have anything else to add?
3 MR. REYES: No. I'm fine.
4 MS. GOLLER: I filled out a card for both.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: You need a separate card for
6 each one, ma'am.
7 Go ahead. You can come down and speak.
8 (Ms. Goller approaches the podium.)
9 MS. GOLLER: And I actually asked you to
10 please read into the record what I had brought
11 in that came from the Public Trust and Warren
12 Anderson, if that could be please read into the
13 record.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I -- I was going to say,
15 ma'am, you can go ahead and speak, just fill out
16 a card afterwards. That's fine.
17 MS. GOLLER: Okay. All right.
18 Should we wait until you read that into the
19 record --
20 THE CHAIRMAN: You want to read that to the
21 record.
22 MS. GOLLER: -- or would you like me to do
23 that as part of my three minutes?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: You can do that, ma'am, if
25 you'd like to read that to the record. And if
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1 you could, afterwards just fill out another
2 card, ma'am. I'd appreciate it.
3 MS. GOLLER: All right.
4 "On behalf of the Public Trust
5 Environmental Legal Institute of Florida, Inc.,
6 and myself, Warren K. Anderson, Jr., personally
7 I want to inform the Land Use and Zoning
8 Committee of our objection to the Mayport cruise
9 terminal. We have a number of specific
10 objections. They include the adverse
11 environmental impact on the St. Johns River and
12 the Timucuan National Preserve, air and water
13 pollution, increased traffic, et cetera, and
14 also the adverse effect on the viewscape within
15 the Timucuan National Preserve, a five-story
16 parking garage, multistory cruise ships,
17 et cetera.
18 "We urge LUZ to vote against these
19 proposals."
20 Signed by Warren K. Anderson, Jr., Public
21 Trust Environmental Legal Institute of Florida,
22 Inc.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
24 MS. GOLLER: Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I appreciate it.
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1 Seeing no further speakers, we'll continue
2 this and take no further action.
3 But, Mr. Reyes, we have a question for you.
4 MR. REYES: Sure.
5 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
6 Mr. Reyes, I just wanted to make sure of a
7 percentage. Did you say 40 percent of the
8 passengers of the Fascination actually stay over
9 in a hotel?
10 MR. REYES: Yes, sir. It's 40 percent.
11 And it's also documented in a CLIA study,
12 which is a cruise line industry association.
13 It's a model that pretty much withstands
14 throughout the entire home port cities
15 throughout the United States.
16 MR. HOLT: Okay. Thank you.
17 MR. REYES: Sure.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: -910, we've already done
19 that.
20 -929, we've already decided to defer
21 that.
22 Middle of page 11, -933. We'll open that
23 public hearing.
24 Seeing no speakers, we're close that public
25 hearing.
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1 I need to move the bill.
2 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
3 MR. CLARK: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
5 seconded.
6 Any discussion on the bill?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
9 ballot.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
17 the vote.
18 (Committee ballot closed.)
19 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
21 approved -933.
22 Let's skip over to the bottom of page 12,
23 -970.
24 We will open the public hearing.
25 We have Gary Crumley, who is no longer with
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 us.
2 Seeing no further speakers, we'll continue
3 that public hearing and take no further action.
4 -971 is the appeal.
5 -972, we will open the public hearing.
6 We have Bill Schaefer.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, your name and address
9 for the record.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Bill Schaefer.
11 My address is 6380 Philips Highway, Suite 101,
12 Jacksonville, Florida.
13 I'm the agent for the owner on behalf of
14 this project, and it's a project that we're
15 trying to have a developer's agreement with
16 regards to concurrency, affirmation statements
17 that have been provided, that they have
18 concurrency on the roadway infrastructure out
19 there, and we're just trying to lock that up so
20 he has a little longer time to go ahead and
21 develop this project that he has proposed for
22 it.
23 That's all. Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no further
25 speakers, we'll close that public hearing.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
2 MR. HOLT: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: It has been moved and
4 seconded.
5 Any discussion on the bill?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
8 ballot.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved -972.
21 -973, open the public hearing.
22 Thank you, sir.
23 MR. SCHAEFER: Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Randy, come on down.
25 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. You're here for
2 questions only.
3 Hold tight. We may have some for you.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no further speakers,
6 we'll close the public hearing.
7 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
8 MR. JOOST: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
10 seconded.
11 Any discussion on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
22 the vote.
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
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1 approved -973.
2 Thank you, sir.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: -974, open the public
5 hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, close the public
7 hearing.
8 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
9 MR. CLARK: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
11 seconded.
12 Any discussion on the bill?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
15 ballot.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote.
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved -974.
3 -975. We will open that public hearing.
4 Mr. Harden.
5 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
6 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 501 Riverside
7 Avenue.
8 I'm just here to answer questions.
9 It's a development agreement in Councilman
10 Graham's district for the Diocese of
11 St. Augustine.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Any questions of
13 Mr. Harden?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, close the
16 public hearing.
17 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
18 MR. CLARK: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
20 seconded.
21 Any further discussion on the bill?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
24 ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
7 the vote.
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
11 approved -975.
12 We've already gone through all the second
13 and rerefers. The only thing we have left is
14 the amendment -- I'm sorry -- it's the appeal,
15 and that's 2008-855. No, I'm sorry. -971.
16 And I'm going to have to leave. I have an
17 early excusal, so we will let the vice chair,
18 Mr. Joost, handle this appeal.
19 So, Mr. Joost, you're on board.
20 (Mr. Joost assumes the Chair.)
21 (Mr. Graham exits the proceedings.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Who's appealing?
23 MS. ELLER: To the Vice Chair, now the
24 Chairman, we have an appeal from a denial by the
25 Planning Commission. Typically, you may want to
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1 go to the Planning Department to just explain
2 the application, and then I believe we have two
3 speakers in the audience to explain the position
4 of the person appealing.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's go to the
6 Planning Department for a brief description.
7 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
8 To the committee, application -- or the
9 appeal 2008-971 is an appeal of a zoning
10 exception application that was heard by the
11 Planning Commission back on August 28th.
12 The zoning exception sought to allow for an
13 assisted living facility with 14 beds and two
14 staff members located at 2044 North Davis
15 Street, between 11th -- between Scriven Street
16 and 11th Street West.
17 The applicant, Omega Brooks, appeared
18 before the Commission. There was opposition at
19 that time. The subject property is located
20 within the boundaries of the Good Neighbor Mania
21 Neighborhood Association.
22 The department's report focused primarily
23 on consistency with the comprehensive plan and
24 we felt that the size of the lot with the amount
25 of residents that would be living in this -- in
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1 the dwelling -- it's a two-story dwelling,
2 approximately -- about 1,600 square feet.
3 The policies in the comp plan that we felt
4 this would be -- would not permit a gradual
5 intens- -- or a gradual transition of densities
6 and intensities between uses.
7 We also felt it was contrary to policy
8 3.1.2, the future land use element, in that --
9 the City shall eliminate incompatible land uses
10 or blighting influences from potentially stable,
11 viable residential neighborhoods.
12 We also felt it was in conflict with future
13 land use element policy 2.2.4 that states -- the
14 importance of maintaining existing and stable
15 neighborhoods through coordination and
16 rehabilitation and conservation action by the
17 Housing Safety Division of the Planning and
18 Development Department.
19 Additionally, there was inconsistencies
20 with existing property safety codes and life,
21 health, safety codes under the fire marshal's
22 office, which -- this proposed use, at this
23 location on this small of a lot, we generally
24 felt was too intense and too intrusive to the
25 neighborhood.
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1 The Planning Commission supported our
2 recommendation for denial, and I'll just
3 summarize with that.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ms. Eller, why don't
5 you go over the rules for the appeal; you know,
6 who speaks and for how long and what the
7 rebuttal rules are.
8 MS. ELLER: Sure. I believe you have two
9 speaker cards. Do you?
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
11 MS. ELLER: And do we have the applicant
12 here?
13 Do we have the applicant? If you could
14 come on up.
15 We typically allow about ten minutes for
16 the applicant to speak, and then about the same
17 amount of time for anyone in opposition to
18 speak.
19 If there are more opposition speakers than
20 that ten minutes, the chairman typically will
21 give one or two minutes for each, but you can
22 limit duplicative testimony, and then a few
23 minutes for the applicant to rebut.
24 In this case, if there aren't any members
25 of the opposition -- you received the report
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1 from the Planning Commission already, who did
2 vote against it.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And then who goes
4 first?
5 MS. ELLER: You could open the public
6 hearing and let the applicant go first.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The public hearing is
8 open.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Omega Brooks.
11 My address is 4260 Lindy Trail, Jacksonville,
12 Florida 32210.
13 And today I would like to address the
14 concerns of the Planning Commission as stated in
15 the staff report as well as address the concerns
16 bought out during my initial hearing.
17 Throughout the staff report there appears
18 to be six general concerns: character of the
19 neighborhood, square footage requirements, the
20 number of bathrooms, traffic and parking, and
21 the intensity of use.
22 With regards to the character of the
23 neighborhood, the staff report states that the
24 proposed property is in the vicinity of only
25 single residential homes. According to the
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1 property appraiser's website, this is
2 inaccurate. I have a list of properties that
3 are zoned as multifamily, which are located on
4 the same street as the property. In addition,
5 there are other properties with various uses.
6 The square footage requirement. To satisfy
7 the square footage requirement, I'm requesting
8 to change the number of residents from 14
9 to 10.
10 Number of bathrooms. I have provided
11 pictures which show that the home has two
12 bathrooms, which meets the minimum requirement.
13 Traffic and parking. According to the
14 staff report, the property lacks parking and
15 would negatively impact traffic. This is
16 inaccurate, and I have provided an approved
17 parking plan.
18 Intensity of use. Because we will be an
19 assisted living facility and will provide our
20 residents with all meals, snacks, and on-site
21 laundry, personal items, housekeeping and
22 on-site activities, there won't be a need for
23 our residents to make trips for shopping or
24 other needs.
25 In addition, our shopping, in most cases,
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1 would be done on a monthly basis, therefore
2 eliminating the number of trips made -- limiting
3 the number of trips made.
4 We will also be providing assistance with
5 daily activities that family members are not
6 available to provide and, therefore, we do not
7 anticipate daily visits from family members.
8 And, finally, the individuals we will
9 service will have mental or medical conditions
10 that will prevent them from driving, which also
11 shows that there will be limited trips into --
12 onto and off the property.
13 There were several concerns during my
14 initial hearing that appear to be licensing
15 related. I would like to reassure you that
16 there is an extensive licensing process in which
17 zoning is only one component. All assisted
18 living facilities are licensed and regulated by
19 AHCA. Before I can obtain a license from AHCA,
20 I must have appropriate zoning, a fire
21 inspection, health inspection, background
22 screening, as well as meet other requirements.
23 There were also questions about my
24 qualifications. I have provided the Planning
25 Commission with a copy of my license to be an
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1 administrator for an assisted living facility as
2 well as my license for limited mental health.
3 Assisted living facilities are not required to
4 employ a nurse unless holding an additional
5 license such as an LNS or ECC license.
6 There are also concerns regarding building
7 modifications for physically disabled. Any
8 modifications that would need to be made will be
9 made prior to licensing.
10 There are also concerns with the facility
11 becoming a rooming house. There are many
12 concerns with the home becoming a rooming
13 house. I am not applying for a zoning for a
14 rooming house, and I do not have any intentions
15 of opening a rooming house.
16 I would like to receive approval for a
17 zoning -- for zoning as -- so that I may open a
18 licensed, 24-hour, staff-assisted living
19 facility which will service the surrounding
20 community.
21 As I stated, the staff report said that
22 opening an assisted living facility in this
23 particular neighborhood would change the
24 character of the neighborhood. And I have a
25 list of some of the homes that I looked up, and
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1 there's a number of them that are not zoned as
2 single-family within the same vicinity of this
3 home.
4 Also, in the staff report there is a
5 listing of the homes that are to the, I guess,
6 right, left, and in front and behind it, and I
7 believe three out of the maybe four homes that
8 are listed are not listed as single-family
9 residences.
10 And I also notice that he said something
11 about the square footage was about 1,600. Even
12 according to the property appraiser's website,
13 that is definitely inaccurate. The home is
14 about -- is closer to 2,000 square feet.
15 And so basically I hope that you-all can
16 consider and see that there is a need for
17 assisted living facilities within family
18 communities, not just for them to be isolated
19 and committed to, I guess, state hospitals or
20 other places that's on the outskirts.
21 I think that it's very important that we
22 include people with disabilities as well as --
23 whether it be physical, medical, or mental.
24 And so I would like to thank you for your
25 time today, and I hope that y'all can see the
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1 need for an assisted living facility in the
2 community and allow me to proceed with my plans
3 to open such a facility.
4 Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Next speaker.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: If I may, I'm
9 Andrew Brigham.
10 I'm a resident of Mandarin. I wanted to
11 speak to another item that I understood was
12 deferred, but then apparently --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, we're having a -- we're
14 having an appeal right now, so I need to hear
15 the other side of this particular matter.
16 MR. BRIGHAM: Yes, sir.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. My card
19 was not called.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Celia Miller.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. State your name and
23 address for the record, please.
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Celia Miller, president
25 of Good Neighbor Mania, 1440 North Myrtle
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1 Avenue, 32209.
2 I was contacted both by the applicant,
3 Ms. Brooks, and the Planning Department during
4 the hearing with the Planning Commission. And
5 we, as a neighborhood association, found that we
6 were between what we described as a rock and a
7 hard place because we didn't have the
8 opportunity to be fully informed from either
9 side on the status of this property.
10 And I did speak over the phone with
11 Ms. Brooks, and I was very impressed with her
12 plans and her mission to provide a facility of
13 this nature. And while we grant her that the
14 city does need this type of a facility, as a
15 neighborhood association and concerned about the
16 neighborhood being at a tipping point -- it's
17 ann older, historic neighborhood -- we wanted to
18 come to some agreement or consensus with her and
19 the City, that -- the way the City described the
20 property, the property is not presently suitable
21 to be occupied for an assisted living facility
22 or even for a congregate living facility.
23 And at this juncture, on that point only,
24 as a neighborhood association, we're concerned
25 that there be some monitoring or regulations or
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1 some means put in place to assist Ms. Brooks to
2 help her meet all of the regulations required
3 for an assisted living facility, but that her
4 future clients not be subjected to a structure
5 that could not meet the present code enforcement
6 for safety and comfort and sanitary conditions.
7 And I have personally -- representing the
8 association, have not seen the property, but I
9 do know where the location is.
10 So I'm not here to oppose her idea. I'm
11 here to oppose that no resident or no applicant
12 or possible client of such a facility be
13 subjected to any type of dwelling or structure
14 that would not provide safety and would not
15 fully comply with what is required for a
16 facility.
17 The neighborhood is at a tipping point, but
18 it's predominantly residential. The
19 neighborhood was impacted many years ago when
20 I-95 split the neighborhood. And it has become
21 somewhat of a pocket in what was once a vibrant
22 neighborhood, and some of those very
23 architectural significant homes remain there,
24 and the neighborhood is in transition.
25 If her facility meets the code and she and
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1 the department can come up with certain
2 conditions to make sure that they're enforced
3 for her plans and for the City's requirement,
4 then I think they can come to a win/win
5 situation and accomplish what we both want to
6 accomplish.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, ma'am.
8 Shannon, is there any room for rebuttal?
9 MS. ELLER: If there's a little bit more
10 time, Ms. Brooks may offer a final closing
11 statement. I don't think we have any other
12 speakers besides the Planning Department
13 representing the Planning Commission.
14 (Ms. Brooks approaches the podium.)
15 MS. BROOKS: I definitely understand the
16 concerns brought up by Ms. Miller. And, as I
17 stated before, I plan to be licensed through
18 AHCA, which is the state agency that actually
19 regulates assisted living facilities.
20 I have taken the training courses and I
21 have passed the competency test. I have my card
22 here that shows that I've also turned in my
23 paperwork showing that.
24 And I also want to reassure her again that,
25 with an assisted living facility, it is highly
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1 regulated. I don't know if she remembers seeing
2 me with that big, big white notebook. That's
3 full of all rules and regulations and laws that
4 you have to actually meet when running an
5 assisted living facility.
6 And I also have some things here, if she'd
7 like to see them, with some of the checklists
8 that we have to go through and some of the
9 things that you have to have in place.
10 So with opening an assisted living
11 facility, it's not an easy task as some people
12 may think. And I also want to open up a
13 reputable business. And I definitely don't want
14 to impact the neighborhood.
15 As she stated, the neighborhood is
16 basically already on decline. The neighborhood,
17 pretty much the majority of the houses there are
18 vacant. And I think it will be very
19 disappointing if I'm denied this opportunity to
20 do something in the community where -- when the
21 properties are vacant, that actually attracts
22 more crime because there's nobody there that has
23 a vested interest.
24 I want to come in the neighborhood and have
25 a vested interest. I want to employ people in
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1 the neighborhood so they'll have a vested
2 interest in it as well and that they'll take
3 ownership of it and ensure that we won't have
4 crime going on in this particular facility.
5 Also, AHCA requires that you have a 24-hour
6 staff. It's not where you can leave these
7 people unattended. You have to have a 24-hour
8 staff. There's background screening. There's a
9 whole number of things.
10 Like they stated, they had concerns about
11 safety, but with AHCA, there is a requirement --
12 as far as fire safety, you have to have a
13 pull-down fire system that you have to put in
14 the home and -- which I've already done that
15 because initially I was told by zoning that I
16 could open an assisted living facility there,
17 then later I found out it's only by exception.
18 I've already invested over $3,000 to put in this
19 fire alarm system.
20 So I'm showing that I'm willing to take
21 every step necessary to open and operate a
22 licensed facility, not a rooming house that I'm
23 just going to abandon.
24 If she -- Ms. Miller would like to also
25 see, I have before pictures of the place and
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1 there's after pictures of the place. The place
2 has been renovated, so it is in a condition
3 where someone could bring their family member
4 there to live.
5 So I hope you-all take all into
6 consideration and majority [sic] that it's not
7 going to be a place that's just going to be,
8 like the concerns are, a rooming house. It's
9 not going to be a rooming house. It's going to
10 be licensed and regulated not only by AHCA, you
11 have -- the fire department is going to be
12 involved, you have the health department that's
13 going to be involved.
14 Everything has to be documented, down to
15 the T, even your menu. Your menu has to be
16 signed off by a dietician. So there are
17 standards and regulations that's already in
18 place, and I plan to actually follow through
19 with all the requirements that I need to have.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
22 Seeing no other speakers, the public
23 hearing is closed.
24 Personally, I'd like to hear from the
25 Planning Department. And me, specifically, two
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1 things in there. The bathrooms were mentioned,
2 whether there seems to be some question as to
3 whether there are one or two bathrooms.
4 And then I noticed -- I noticed apparently
5 there are 14 people in there, which requires
6 200 square feet. So that's 2,800 square feet.
7 I think that's -- I heard the size of the house
8 is only 2,000 square feet. So I'd like you to
9 go over those two points.
10 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
11 To the Chair, the staff's review -- and
12 this -- you know, the only reason, I guess,
13 we've gotten so familiar with these code
14 requirements is because we just finished dealing
15 with rooming house statute changes in
16 Springfield, and so we're very familiar with now
17 the NFPA, life safety code. In addition, the
18 property safety code issues.
19 And so the -- the life safety code is the
20 200 square feet per person, which is calculated
21 by taking the gross floor area of the use
22 divided by the number of occupants.
23 And, in this instance, the proposed use was
24 deficient by more than 700 square feet at this
25 location and did not conform to the life safety
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1 code.
2 Additionally, based on the number of
3 residents within the house, that in this -- it
4 was my understanding at the time -- it may have
5 been renovated since then, but there was only
6 one bathroom for the six bedrooms that were in
7 the house, and so that also basically was not a
8 sufficient number of bathrooms per the property
9 safety code.
10 So, I mean -- besides all that, I'll just
11 kind of sum up that -- the comments by
12 Commissioner Register at the end of the hearing,
13 really just looking at the surrounding uses,
14 this is primarily a single-family neighborhood.
15 There are some duplexes in there. But allowing
16 this use to go in the middle of this
17 neighborhood, on this size of a lot, with 14
18 residents and two staff people is an isolated
19 use in the middle of the neighborhood that
20 would, in the staff's opinion, only, you know,
21 lead to the detriment -- continued detriment of
22 that neighborhood.
23 That is not located -- it does not provide
24 enough of a buffer or transition, that it's too
25 intense for this size of a property and for this
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1 size of a structure.
2 So that's essentially the reasoning for the
3 denial, and Planning Commission found also.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Clark.
5 MR. CLARK: Thank you.
6 The public hearing is closed, correct?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
8 MR. CLARK: To Sean's point, you know, I
9 don't think any of us doubt the applicant's
10 legitimacy and ability to run, you know, a nice
11 facility, but I don't think that's what we're
12 really discussing. I think we're discussing a
13 piece of property here, whether or not it
14 conforms, and whether or not it can actually
15 adequately do what they say they can do with the
16 amount of space they've got.
17 I haven't quite figured out exactly how
18 much square footage is in the thing. I've seen
19 it online. I kind of looked at everything
20 around it. I personally don't see any way you
21 can fit even ten people in a dwelling of this
22 size, much less 14.
23 So I am -- I am of the opinion that I'm
24 not -- I'm not going to support the appeal.
25 MR. HOLT: Move the denial.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other speakers, do
2 I hear a second on the amendment to deny?
3 MR. REDMAN: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All those in favor of
5 the amendment signify by saying aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
10 MR. HOLT: Move the bill as amended.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Can I get a second?
12 MR. CLARK: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's put it up on
14 the screen, seeing no other speakers.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, -971 as
23 amended, move to deny has passed.
24 MR. CLARK: (Inaudible.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller.
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1 MS. ELLER: Through the Chair to the
2 committee, the public hearing has been continued
3 to December 2nd, so there will be another
4 opportunity. And I think what some of the
5 members of the audience have said is that they
6 didn't realize that the public hearing was going
7 to be opened and continued. They thought that
8 the item was going to be deferred without anyone
9 speaking.
10 I believe there's only three -- maybe three
11 speaker cards.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Only three speakers.
13 MS. ELLER: Three speaker cards.
14 So my recommendation to the committee would
15 be to allow them to speak at this opportunity
16 and with the knowledge that everyone in the room
17 knows that there's another public hearing on
18 December 2nd, so your comments may be better
19 served being repeated at the December 2nd
20 meeting as well.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll reopen the
22 public hearing.
23 Which bill number is that?
24 MS. ELLER: -892 and -893 together.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: -892 and -893 together.
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1 Will Andrew Brigham --
2 (Mr. Brigham approaches the podium.)
3 MR. BRIGHAM: Brigham.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You've got three
5 minutes.
6 MR. BRIGHAM: Thank you. And thank you for
7 your courtesy tonight.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Well --
9 MR. BRIGHAM: We appreciate you reopening
10 the public hearing.
11 I'm Andrew Brigham. I'm from Mandarin, and
12 I'm here to oppose JaxPort's plan -- or
13 application for amendment.
14 What do I know about Mayport because I live
15 in Mandarin? And I would ask you each, when
16 making decisions on this matter, that you do
17 what I did and go out to Mayport and talk to
18 people there.
19 The issue here isn't about an historical
20 marker and it's not about just an historical
21 place; it's about living history. There are
22 people in Mayport whose family has been there
23 for eight generations. Where do we see this in
24 the United States of America? It's a very small
25 community. It's a community whose heartbeat is
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1 a working waterfront.
2 Now, some may say that the economy now has
3 turned against the shrimp boats and therefore
4 against the working waterfront. If that's what
5 government is going to do in these times where
6 the economy is going to be pressing on not just
7 Mayport but other communities, I suggest that
8 that is not at the core of what's at stake here.
9 What is at stake is that the Port Authority
10 is proposing a use that is not consistent, that
11 is not in concurrence with the present
12 comprehensive plan.
13 The policies of government and this City
14 Council have been to protect a working
15 waterfront. There's an overlay. This has been
16 what the community has an expectation in. This
17 is what needs protection.
18 With the Port Authority building a
19 terminal, it's just the beginning of a more
20 massive undertaking. This will be the most
21 dominant land use in all of Mayport. There's no
22 doubt about it. And when the promises are made
23 that eminent domain will not be used, those
24 promises will not be kept because you cannot
25 have such an intense use without widening the
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1 roads, without improving the infrastructure.
2 That will devastate the small commercial strip
3 along A1A.
4 Please don't delude yourself. The
5 proposition that this will better the community
6 is the same promise that redevelopers have made
7 to those areas that were being blighted, that
8 really weren't blighted. They were just owned
9 by a community that was asked to move along.
10 Please don't ask this community to move along.
11 If you go to Tampa and if you look at the
12 trendy shops that are near the terminal, it's a
13 nice place to visit, it's a nice place to have
14 lunch, but the property is not owned by the
15 people who were originally in that community.
16 And if you pass this amendment, you will be
17 breaking faith with the people that depended
18 upon you to protect the working waterfront.
19 You'll be breaking faith with the whole
20 community that will die out a slow attrition
21 because this happens -- the port will have its
22 anchor spot. Everything else will have to cater
23 to that.
24 The people that live and love this
25 community, if you have not talked to, please go
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1 up to Mayport before you make this important
2 decision and see if there are some things that
3 are worth more than any revenues that a cruise
4 ship terminal could provide.
5 And thank you again for opening up the
6 public hearing. I do appreciate it.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Ms. Decker.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I too thank you. I
11 live -- I'm one of the ones that misunderstood
12 how deferring a public hearing were two
13 different things.
14 My name is Alyce Decker. I live at 109
15 Lost Beach Lane. I too am out of the
16 community. I live in Ponte Vedra. However,
17 I've been a member of the Mayport Waterfront
18 Partnership for the past nine years, and I too
19 oppose this land use change for the cruise
20 terminal that JaxPort is seeking.
21 One of the things -- or a number of the
22 things that I know you have before you -- and I
23 have considered a lot of the different
24 information from a lot of different sources that
25 you have received.
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1 The partnership has worked for the past
2 nine years under the direction of the City of
3 Jacksonville with one of their own staff
4 planners who was assigned to administer this
5 Mayport working waterfront program which comes
6 out of the Department of Community Affairs.
7 Mayport was one of the first working
8 waterfronts that was chosen, and they were very
9 thrilled about it, as was the City of
10 Jacksonville.
11 Right now I feel that the right hand does
12 not exactly know what the left hand is doing.
13 There has been a great deal of energy, thousands
14 and thousands of dollars of programs have
15 been -- and projects and research has been done
16 to refurbish this community.
17 The group has created an overlay zone. One
18 of the outgrowths of the waterfront partnership
19 was the Mayport Road overlay zone just passed by
20 the City Council last night. And now when you
21 go along Mayport Road, there is landscape and
22 new curbing, new guttering and all those sorts
23 of things. That would not have happened had it
24 not been for the Mayport Waterfront Partnership.
25 So, again, I know you will hear from other
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1 citizens in the ensuing next couple of public
2 hearings that we have. But I, again, agree that
3 there is a broken trust here if we are working
4 on -- for several years, to restore and preserve
5 a working waterfront as a State program and
6 administering federal funds to do so and then to
7 forsake that just because of this particular
8 project.
9 Thank you very much.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Mr. Crumley, Gary Crumley.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Gary R.
14 Crumley. I'm a registered landscape architect
15 and the program director for the Mayport
16 waterfront's partnership.
17 Mr. Holt has been to our city to meet with
18 us in the past and we thank him for doing so.
19 At that January meeting, it was stated that
20 the stars had to align for the opportunity of a
21 cruise terminal to occur, including, directly
22 from the Port Authority's mouth, a 20-year
23 commitment for a lease, a 20-year commitment for
24 a lease before they would even consider pursuing
25 this. Where is their 20-year lease?
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1 The Mayport Waterfront Partnership and the
2 waterfront has done everything they can to do
3 what was assigned to them in their mission
4 developed in this plan here, the visioning of
5 Mayport. This was funded by the NOAA, a federal
6 agency that gave the City of Jacksonville
7 $50,000 to administrate that grant and develop
8 that overlay district zoning, 2006.
9 And within that zoning, 2006, Chapter 381,
10 what do we find? A requirement in the zoning
11 ordinance stating that a Waterfront Partnership
12 acknowledgment letter be provided before any
13 purchase, sale, or transfer of property occurs.
14 Where is the Jacksonville Port letter from the
15 Port Authority?
16 Now, it would seem to me that if the
17 federal government is providing funding to
18 develop the waterfront and to assist us in this
19 program and that you as the City Council members
20 and people who are in charge of supplying the
21 protection needed in Mayport to keep that
22 community, would it be a malfeasance of the use
23 of federal funds to reverse and throw out the
24 very overlay district and ordinances that you
25 people paid for in order to create? It seems to
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1 me to be a conflict here.
2 Now, there's less than 60 acres of acreage
3 and less than 200 people in this community. It
4 would seem to me that you would be serving them
5 an injustice to tell them, sorry, we no longer
6 have room for a working waterfront and the
7 Waterfront Partnership no longer has a place in
8 Jacksonville. You need to look inside
9 yourselves and say what's the right thing to do
10 here.
11 Now, the concerns that I have here are that
12 we've got mayors, city councilmen, and a lot of
13 really good people that started out with this
14 plan. The partnership board of directors
15 included Councilman Dick Brown, Commissioner
16 John Meserve, Councilman Theo Mitchelson
17 (phonetic), Councilman Max Leggett, Councilman
18 Eric Smith. None of these people are around
19 today. The Waterfront Partnership deserves your
20 support.
21 And, Ray Holt, you're the number one guy in
22 our community who should be attending these
23 Waterfront Partnership meetings.
24 We appreciate your consideration tonight.
25 Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Seeing no other speakers, we will close the
3 public hearing -- open and continue till
4 December 2nd.
5 Any other action or comments by the
6 committee or the Planning Department?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 STAFF MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Then this committee is
10 closed.
11 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
12 6:40 p.m.)
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 23rd day of November, 2008.
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