1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, October 7,


       7   2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        ART GRAHAM, Chair.

                STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.

      14        RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.

                JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.

      15        RAY HOLT, Committee Member.

                JACK WEBB, Committee Member.

      16        DON REDMAN, Committee Member.



           ALSO PRESENT:


                ART SHAD, City Council Member.

      19        WARREN JONES, City Council Member.

                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      20        SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

      21        FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

                SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

      22        MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.

                MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.


                                 -  -  -








           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   October 7, 2008                         5:00 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon, everyone.


       5             This is the Land Use and Zoning Committee


       6        meeting.  Let the record show it's about


       7        5 o'clock on Tuesday, October the 7th.


       8             And if we can start over here on our right,


       9        let's introduce ourselves.


      10             MR. CROFTS:  My name is John Crofts,


      11        Planning and Development Department.


      12             MR. KELLY:  Sean Kelly, Planning and


      13        Development.


      14             MR. AVERY:  Ken Avery, Planning and


      15        Development.


      16             MR. HUXFORD:  Folks Huxford, Planning and


      17        Development.


      18             MR. REDMAN:  Don Redman, Council


      19        District 4.


      20             MR. HOLT:  Ray Holt, District 11.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Art Graham, District 13.


      22             MR. JOOST:  Stephen Joost, Group 3


      23        at-large.


      24             MR. CLARK:  Richard Clark, District 3.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, we have a pretty full





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        agenda today, so I'll let those of you in the


       2        audience know what we're going to do.


       3             First, we're going to go through the


       4        agenda, and I'm going to tell you everything


       5        that's going to be deferred so if you're here


       6        for one of those items to be deferred, you don't


       7        have to sit here for three hours before we get


       8        to your bill and you realize we're not taking


       9        any action on it.


      10             And then after that, we're going to start


      11        with a special request.  And we don't have any


      12        visiting council members here yet, so we'll


      13        start at the beginning of the agenda and work


      14        our way through until we get a special request.


      15             We will be taking a break probably around


      16        the 7 o'clock hour.  Our court reporter needs to


      17        rest her little fingers after about two hours,


      18        so we'll take a break and we'll probably


      19        actually break for dinner.  We'll take a break


      20        about 7:00, so 7:30, and then we'll continue the


      21        meeting after that.


      22             That all being said, top of page 2,


      23        2005-1228 is deferred.  2006-24 is deferred.


      24        2006-220 is deferred.


      25             Top of page 3.  2006-658 is deferred.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        2007-581 is deferred.  2007-1086 is deferred.


       2             Top of page 4.  2008-236 is deferred.


       3        2008-314 is deferred.


       4             Top of page 5.  2008-414 is deferred.


       5             Page 6.  -416 is deferred and -418 is


       6        deferred.


       7             We skip over to page 8, top of the page.


       8        2008-541 is deferred.  -542 is deferred.  At the


       9        bottom of the page, -546 is deferred.


      10             Bottom of page 9.  2008-549 is deferred.


      11             Top of page 10.  -550 is deferred.  -552 is


      12        deferred.


      13             Then we continue on to -- and continuing on


      14        until the bottom of page 22, 2008-799 is


      15        deferred.  -800 is deferred.  -801 is deferred.


      16        -802 is deferred.  -803 is deferred.  -833 is


      17        second and rereferred.  -840, -841, and -842 are


      18        all second and rereferred.


      19             That all being said, let's go back to the


      20        agenda and start doing some work.


      21             (Dr. Gaffney enters the proceedings.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 4.  2007-1350.


      23        We'll open the public hearing.


      24             We don't have any speakers, so we'll


      25        continue that public hearing till November the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        3rd.


       2             That's one of the things I meant to say.


       3        For those of you that normally come to these


       4        meetings, our first meeting in November is


       5        normally November 4th, but since that's Election


       6        Day and a lot of the councilmembers have other


       7        commitments, we have moved that day forward to


       8        November 3rd.  So make sure you have that on


       9        your calendar.  We'll meet November 3rd at


      10        5 o'clock.  I just want for everybody to know


      11        that so there's no confusion.  We're actually


      12        meeting on that Monday.


      13             Okay.  Top of page 5, committee members,


      14        2008-413.  We have a substitute.


      15             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.


      16             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and


      18        seconded.


      19             Any discussion on the sub?


      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor


      22        say aye.


      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved


       2        the sub.


       3             MR. CLARK:  Move to rerefer as substituted.


       4             MR. JOOST:  Second.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded


       6        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.


       7             Any discussion on the rereferral?


       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      10        ballot.


      11             (Committee ballot opened.)


      12             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      17             (Committee ballot closed.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      19        the vote.


      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      22        rereferred 2008-413.


      23             (Mr. Webb enters the proceedings.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Bottom of the page.


      25        2008-415.  There's a substitute.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.


       2             MR. HOLT:  Second.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and


       4        seconded.


       5             Any discussion on the substitute?


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor


       8        say aye.


       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      13        approved the substitute.


      14             MR. HOLT:  Move to rerefer as substituted.


      15             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded


      17        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.


      18             Any discussion on the rereferral?


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      21        ballot.


      22             (Committee ballot opened.)


      23             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      25             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       4             (Committee ballot closed.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


       6        the vote


       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       9        rereferred -415 as substituted.


      10             (Mr. Shad enters the proceedings.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Middle of page 6.  -417.  We


      12        have a substitute.


      13             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.


      14             MR. HOLT:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and


      16        seconded.


      17             Any discussion on the sub?


      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      20        ballot.


      21             I'm sorry.  All in favor of the sub signify


      22        by saying aye.


      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved


       2        the substitute.


       3             MR. CLARK:  Move to rerefer.


       4             MR. HOLT:  Second.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved to rerefer


       6        to LUZ as substituted and seconded.


       7             Any discussion on the rereferral?


       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      10        ballot.


      11             (Committee ballot opened.)


      12             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      18             (Committee ballot closed.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      20        the vote.


      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      23        rereferred 2008-417.


      24             Top of page 7.  We're going to open the


      25        public hearing on -419 and -420.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)


       2             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, Charles Mann, 165


       3        Arlington Road, representing the Northside


       4        Women's Resource Center.


       5             This is a center that offers post and


       6        prenatal care.  It's a benefit to the


       7        neighborhood.  We've worked through it prior to


       8        this, before -- this was one of the items that


       9        was rereferred to DCA, and I'll just stand by


      10        for questions.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Mann.


      12             Any other speakers?


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no other speakers,


      15        we're going to close the public hearing on -419


      16        and -420.


      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill's been moved and


      20        seconded.


      21             Any discussion on the bill?


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      24        ballot.


      25             (Committee ballot opened.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       4             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       8             (Committee ballot closed.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      10        the vote.


      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas [sic], zero nays.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      13        approved -419.


      14             -420.  We have an amendment.


      15             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.


      16             MR. WEBB:  Second.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment's been moved


      18        and seconded.


      19             Planning Department, can we hear the


      20        amendment, please.


      21             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.  The


      22        amendment is as follows:


      23             Condition number 1, "The developer shall be


      24        subject to the original legal description dated


      25        January 22nd, 2008."





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Condition number 2, "The developer shall be


       2        subject to the original written description


       3        dated January 22nd, 2008."


       4             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject


       5        to the original site plan dated January 22nd,


       6        2008."


       7             Condition number 4, "The developer shall be


       8        subject to the review and approval of the


       9        Development Services Division, pursuant to their


      10        memorandum dated May 16th, 2008, and the


      11        Transportation Planning Division memorandum


      12        dated June 16th, 2008, or as otherwise approved


      13        by the Planning and Development Department."


      14             Condition number 5, "A pregnancy counseling


      15        center with ancillary medical services


      16        subordinate to the primary use shall be


      17        permitted.  However, the following permitted


      18        uses and permissible uses by exception in the


      19        CRO zoning district are specifically


      20        prohibited:  medical clinics, banks,


      21        drive-throughs, cosmetology and similar uses,


      22        fitness and gymnastic centers, stage theatres,


      23        rooming houses, residential treatment centers,


      24        group care homes, and emergency shelters."


      25             Condition number 6, "The parking lot shall





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        be brought into compliance with Part 12 of the


       2        zoning code and a sidewalk shall be provided


       3        from Main Street to the driveway."


       4             Number 7, "No vehicular access shall be


       5        permitted from Sago Avenue."


       6             Number 8, "Only nonilluminated signs shall


       7        be allowed pursuant to the CRO zoning district


       8        criteria found in Part 13 of the zoning code."


       9             Number 9 and finally, "The developer shall


      10        provide an uncomplementary buffer along the


      11        northerly property line per Section 656.1216 of


      12        the zoning code."


      13             That's it.


      14             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, I've been over


      15        those conditions with my client and he's in


      16        agreement.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Mann.


      18             We have a motion and a second on the


      19        amendment.


      20             Any further discussion on the amendment?


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor


      23        say aye.


      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       3        approved the amendment.


       4             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.


       5             MR. HOLT:  Second.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill's been moved and


       7        seconded as amended.


       8             Any further discussion on the bill?


       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      11        ballot.


      12             (Committee ballot opened.)


      13             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      16             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      19             (Committee ballot closed.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      21        the vote.


      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      24        approved 2008-420.


      25             Let the record show that Councilmember Shad





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        has joined us.


       2             MR. MANN:  Committee, thank you very much.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       4             Mr. Shad, I have two other ones so I can


       5        close out page 8, if you don't mind.


       6             MR. SHAD:  We have to wait on Councilmember


       7        Jones, I'm sure.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We'll wait on


       9        Councilmember Jones.


      10             2008-517.  We'll open the public hearing.


      11             No speakers.  We'll continue that public


      12        hearing and take no further action.


      13             Page 8.  2008-545.


      14             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.


      15             MR. HOLT:  Second.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and


      17        seconded.


      18             Any discussion on the substitute?


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor say aye.


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved


      25        the substitute.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CLARK:  Move to rerefer.


       2             MR. HOLT:  Second.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded


       4        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.


       5             Any further discussion on the rereferral?


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


       8        ballot.


       9             (Committee ballot opened.)


      10             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      13             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      16             (Committee ballot closed.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      18        the vote.


      19             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      21        rereferred 2008-545 as substituted.


      22             Okay.  We'll move on until Mr. Jones


      23        comes.


      24             Top of page 9.  2008-547 and -548.  We'll


      25        open both of those public hearings.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We have Dan and Dan.  Come on down, Dan.


       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Dan Boswell, 4014 Ranie


       4        Road, representing the owners of the property,


       5        Traw Engineering.


       6             What we have is 9.31 acres going to -- from


       7        LDR to light industrial.  It currently has heavy


       8        industrial to the north, 295 to the west,


       9        Old Kings Road to the right with some low


      10        density residential, and then some industrial


      11        and residential to the south.


      12             (Mr. Jones enters the proceedings.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Very good.


      14             Is that it?


      15             MR. BOSWELL:  That's it.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have no further speakers,


      17        so we'll close the public hearing.  Just hold


      18        on.


      19             Let's start with -547.  Someone move the


      20        bill.


      21             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


      22             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and


      24        seconded.


      25             Any discussion on the bill?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


       3        ballot.


       4             (Committee ballot opened.)


       5             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      12             (Committee ballot closed.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      14        the vote.


      15             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      17        approved -547.


      18             -548.


      19             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


      20             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and


      22        seconded, -548.


      23             Any discussion on -548?


      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        ballot.


       2             (Committee ballot opened.)


       3             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       6             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      10             (Committee ballot closed.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


      12        the vote.


      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      15        approved 2008-548.


      16             MR. BOSWELL:  Thank you very much.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      18             Actually, you can thank Mr. Jones because


      19        we were able to get to your bill.


      20             Let the record show that Mr. Warren Jones


      21        has joined us.


      22             Welcome, sir.


      23             MR. JONES:  Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  And Dr. Johnny Gaffney.


      25             I'm sorry, sir.  I thought you were here





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        earlier.  We missed you.  Welcome.


       2             Middle of page 10, 2008-551.  We have a


       3        substitute.


       4             MR. CLARK:  Move the substitute.


       5             MR. JOOST:  Second.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and


       7        seconded.


       8             Any discussion on the substitute?


       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor say aye.


      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.


      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved


      15        the substitute.


      16             MR. CLARK:  Moved to rerefer.


      17             MR. HOLT:  Second.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded


      19        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.


      20             Any discussion on the rereferral?


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the


      23        ballot.


      24             (Committee ballot opened.)


      25             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       3             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       7             (Committee ballot closed.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record


       9        the vote.


      10             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      12        rereferred 2008-551 as substituted.


      13             2008-562.  Open the public hearing.


      14             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      15        public hearing and take no action.


      16             First ten pages are down.


      17             Okay.  Mr. Jones -- well, I'm sorry,


      18        Mr. Shad was here first.


      19             Mr. Shad, what on our agenda do you want to


      20        take up first?


      21             MR. SHAD:  -563.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 11.  -563.


      23             Okay.  Mr. Shad, did you say you wanted to


      24        make a statement before we got started with the


      25        official quasi-judicial process?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. SHAD:  I did.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


       3             MR. SHAD:  Thank you, committee members.


       4             A couple of items.  There had been a -- I


       5        wanted to acknowledge, I had received a couple


       6        of requests for deferral from some members of


       7        the community, and I wanted to just note -- make


       8        sure it was clear that I did ask the applicant


       9        if they would support a deferral because we had


      10        deferred it one time for five weeks, and


      11        actually for two cycles, including a fifth week


      12        there.


      13             I just wanted to go on record, it had been


      14        deferred for five weeks and that the applicant


      15        strongly -- even -- I tried to insist, but


      16        strongly did not want to go forward with a


      17        deferral, so that's why we're going to hear it


      18        tonight.


      19             I also wanted to ask y'all for your -- draw


      20        upon all your skills as we go forward with


      21        this.  It has a lot of moving parts.


      22             River Oaks Road, you will hear tonight, is


      23        where you're going to hear most of the


      24        opposition.  It's a -- if you haven't been out


      25        there, River Oaks Road, it's an unusual road





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that is very commercial on one end, separated by


       2        railroad tracks, and very residential --


       3        extremely residential on the other end, and I


       4        would ask you to consider that and to protect


       5        that neighborhood and that road as you


       6        deliberate and look at competing amendments


       7        tonight.


       8             I'll also note that -- to the community,


       9        that the closure of River Oaks Road has been


      10        something that has been talked about a lot.  I


      11        know it's been attempted in the past, several


      12        times, and I, myself, have struggled with how


      13        that relates to this zoning.


      14             And it really is a separate issue, but I


      15        would just say here on the record that as the


      16        development of Philips Highway goes forward,


      17        both with this development and other


      18        developments, that I think I, more than ever


      19        now, will support the closure of that crossing


      20        there.


      21             And, you know, I am, myself, not the


      22        deciding factor in doing that.  The railroad,


      23        the mayor's office, other council members in


      24        that area -- I just want to get that on the


      25        record, that with this development on River Oaks





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Road, with the unusual nature of it being one of


       2        the only cross-throughs between Emerson and


       3        Atlantic, that I think it's probably time, as we


       4        develop Philips Highway, that that closure gets


       5        closed, and I just wanted to get that on the


       6        record.


       7             Thank you.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Shad.


       9             Okay.  We're at 2008-563.  We've got a


      10        formal request to have a formal quasi-judicial


      11        hearing, so our process will change a little


      12        today to make sure that we comply with that


      13        request.


      14             That being said, we can start with


      15        declaring ex-parte communications.  And if


      16        you've declared communications the last time on


      17        this bill, you do not need to do it again unless


      18        you've had further conversations with people


      19        since the last time.


      20             That all being said, the first one is


      21        Mr. Holt.


      22             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


      23             I declare ex-parte communication with


      24        Mr. Ashton Hudson and Lori Boyer on September


      25        23rd.  We discussed the Jackson Square project.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        And also with the agent, Paul Harden,


       2        yesterday.  We discussed some of the issues


       3        surrounding it.


       4             Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       6             Mr. Clark.


       7             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       8             I would like to declare ex-parte on


       9        September 23rd with the agent, Paul Harden.


      10        Also, on September 23rd with Christine Sasser,


      11        on the 15th with Ashton Hudson and the San Marco


      12        Preservation Society, as well as today with


      13        Bruce Barcelo.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      15             Mr. Joost.


      16             MR. JOOST:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      17             On September 3rd, I had a meeting with the


      18        applicant, Paul Harden.


      19             On September 10th, I had a phone


      20        conversation with Mr. Harden.


      21             On September 30th, I had a meeting with


      22        Christine Sasser and Philip Elson.


      23             On September 30th, I also had a meeting


      24        with Steve Cissel, the developer.


      25             On October 3rd, I had another phone





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        conversation with Mr. Harden.


       2             On October 3rd, I had a phone conversation


       3        with Christine Sasser.


       4             And on October 7th, I had a meeting with


       5        Tim Franklin in my office, all to discuss


       6        various aspects of the project.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       8             Mr. Webb.


       9             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      10             Three weeks ago, I had ex-parte


      11        communications with Ashton Hudson and Lori Boyer


      12        with regards -- with respect to this


      13        application.  Moreover, two weeks ago, I had a


      14        meeting in my office with Steve Cissel, the


      15        developer, to talk about this -- the project.


      16             Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.


      18             MR. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      19             I had ex-parte communications today with


      20        Bruce Barcelo and Paul Harden regarding the -- a


      21        deferral, a possible deferral.


      22             I had an ex-parte communication with


      23        Ms. Boyer two weeks ago regarding some


      24        additional conditions that she would like to see


      25        added to the rezoning.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And I met yesterday with Steve Cissel to


       2        discuss access to River Oaks Road and the other


       3        conditions that were imposed by the Planning


       4        Commission and recommended by the Planning


       5        Department.


       6             Thank you.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Dr. Gaffney.


       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       9             Yes.  I wish to declare ex-parte


      10        communication.  On 9/23, I had a meeting in my


      11        office with Mr. Paul Harden in reference to the


      12        project and the zoning area.


      13             Also on 9/23, I had -- I met with


      14        Ms. Christine Sasser in reference to


      15        accessibility to the project that they're


      16        contemplating building over there.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      18             Mr. Shad.


      19             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.


      20             Since our last announced ex-parte


      21        communications, Wednesday, October 1st, in my


      22        office, Christine Sasser, Philip Elson.


      23             Friday, October 3rd, the leadership from


      24        San Marco Preservation Society, the developer,


      25        his agent, the Planning Department and General





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Counsel's Office.


       2             Yesterday by phone, Lori Boyer and Matt


       3        Carlucci; and today by phone, Bruce Barcelo and


       4        Mr. Paul Harden.


       5             Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  And I've had ex-parte


       7        communications since the last time with


       8        Ms. Boyer three weeks ago, and with the


       9        applicant last Thursday, and with Ms. Sasser and


      10        Bruce Barcelo yesterday.


      11             MR. JONES:  I forgot one.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.


      13             MR. JONES:  Thank you.


      14             I omitted -- yesterday I discussed the


      15        deferral with -- ex-parte communication with


      16        Matt Carlucci.


      17             Thank you.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      19             Okay.  I want to let you know that we will


      20        be swearing in the speakers.  We will swear in


      21        the applicant and his experts, and then we will


      22        swear in the other side and their experts.  They


      23        will each be given 15 minutes to speak, and then


      24        after that we will open the public comment, and


      25        we will give anybody that's not already





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        represented by an attorney, on one side or the


       2        other, a minute to speak to get what you need to


       3        get out on record.


       4             I'll let you know that we have all the


       5        information from the Planning Commission meeting


       6        last Thursday.  So if you've heard some of the


       7        things that have already been said, it's really


       8        not necessary to be duplicative.  But if there's


       9        any new information you need to add, please feel


      10        free to come up and add that.


      11             And then afterwards, we will be giving both


      12        sides ten minutes to rebut, and then they'll


      13        have closing statements.


      14             This all being said, let's start off with


      15        the Planning Department to give us the report,


      16        tell us where we are.


      17             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair, members of


      18        Council, application for rezoning R-2008-563


      19        seeks approval of a rezoning of the old Jerry


      20        Hamm automotive dealership on Philips Highway,


      21        north of River Oaks Road.


      22             The subject property is currently zoned


      23        CCG-1 and -2, primarily CCG-2.  There is some CO


      24        along the west parcel -- the west area of the


      25        parcel that parallels the railroad line.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The department has reviewed the application


       2        for the criteria for the rezoning, in addition


       3        to the criteria for a PUD rezoning, and finds


       4        that the application is sufficient and finds


       5        that it does comply with the criteria and


       6        further specifies those goals through the


       7        written description dated September 17th and the


       8        revised site plan dated September 17th.


       9             This item was heard at Planning


      10        Commission.  Planning Commission voted to


      11        approve the application subject to one


      12        modification, which is a fairly major


      13        modification to the staff recommendation, which


      14        recommended that there be no access from the


      15        subject property to and from Summerall Avenue or


      16        River Oaks Road.


      17             The rest of the conditions were adopted


      18        intact, and I can go over those individually or


      19        we can proceed.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's just go ahead and go


      21        over those amendments that the Planning


      22        Commission passed because there may be something


      23        that one side or the other want to challenge or


      24        speak about.


      25             MR. KELLY:  Okay.  Condition 1, "The





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        development shall be subject to the original


       2        legal description dated June 23rd, 2008."


       3             Condition 2, "The development shall be


       4        subject to the revised written description dated


       5        September 17th, 2008."


       6             Condition 3, "The development shall be


       7        subject to the revised site plan dated September


       8        17th, 2008."


       9             Condition 4, "The development shall be


      10        subject to the review and approval of the


      11        Development Services Division, pursuant to the


      12        memorandum dated September 8th, 2008, except for


      13        comment 3 as attached within the memo; and the


      14        FDOT memorandum dated July 22nd, 2008, attached;


      15        or as otherwise approved by the FDOT and


      16        Planning and Development Department."


      17             Condition 5, "At the time of verification


      18        of substantial compliance a phasing schedule


      19        shall be provided to the Planning and


      20        Development Department."


      21             Condition 6 -- there's a proposed


      22        amendment, and I can either read the new


      23        proposed condition or the adopted condition.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's just go ahead and read


      25        what was adopted in Planning Commission.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  Condition 6 adopted by Planning


       2        Commission states, "Prior to any residential


       3        development beyond 30 units gross acre, a bus


       4        rapid transit station or alternative equivalent


       5        JTA commuter transit station facility, including


       6        shelter and amenities, shall be completed and


       7        operational, subject to the review and approval


       8        of the Planning and Development Department."


       9             Condition 7, "A roundabout shall contain a


      10        fountain feature or a piece of public art."


      11             Condition 8, "The applicant shall provide


      12        at least one dedicated parking space per


      13        multifamily dwelling unit, plus one guest


      14        parking space per three multifamily dwelling


      15        units or a minimum of 1.25 spaces per dwelling


      16        unit."


      17             Condition 9, "Sidewalks along Jackson


      18        Square Boulevard shall be no less than eight


      19        feet in width."


      20             Condition 10, "At the time of verification


      21        of substantial compliance the applicant will


      22        provide a pedestrian plan that shows street


      23        trees and street furniture along Jackson Square


      24        Boulevard and the perimeter of the landscaping


      25        areas fronting Philips Highway."





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Condition 11, "All entry signage shall be


       2        architecturally consistent, of a monument style,


       3        and be limited to 200 square feet per sign


       4        face."


       5             Condition 12, "Signage that advertises


       6        multifamily uses shall be nonilluminated or


       7        externally illuminated except on Philips Highway


       8        or Jackson Square Boulevard where they may be


       9        internally illuminated."


      10             Condition 13, as adopted from the Planning


      11        Commission, "There shall be no access from the


      12        subject property to and from Summerall Avenue or


      13        River Oaks Road."


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      15             Let us start off with the applicant.


      16             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden, you have three


      18        minutes to give your opening statement.


      19             MR. HARDEN:  Can I pass these out first?


      20             MR. HOLT:  Mr. Chair, could I ask a


      21        question?


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      23             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


      24             Mr. Kelly, could I ask you a question?


      25             MR. KELLY:  (No response.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. HOLT:  Mr. Kelly, could I ask you a


       2        question?


       3             MR. KELLY:  Sure.


       4             MR. HOLT:  Just to make sure I'm perfectly


       5        clear on this, your support of this is


       6        conditional that River Oaks Boulevard [sic] stay


       7        open.  If there were to be an amendment that


       8        were to close the access to River Oaks, the


       9        Planning Department would not support that; is


      10        that true?


      11             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.


      12             The Planning Department does not support


      13        the full closure of access to River Oaks and


      14        Summerall.


      15             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  I just wanted to make


      16        sure I was clear on that.


      17             Thank you.


      18             MR. JONES:  (Inaudible.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      20             MR. JONES:  Through the Chair to Mr. Kelly,


      21        the Planning Department did not recommend


      22        condition number 13; is that correct?


      23             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.  That was


      24        brought out at Planning Commission.


      25             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Why would you not





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        support that, item 13, the closure -- closing


       2        access to River Oaks Road?


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, before we get into


       4        that, let's just get the presentations and then


       5        we'll get back into the -- to the deep, deepness


       6        of it all.


       7             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Unless you really have to


       9        have that before we go forward.


      10             MR. JONES:  No.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Harden.


      12             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace


      13        Boulevard.


      14             I represent Cypress Realty.  Cypress Realty


      15        is a major national urban infill developer.


      16        Cypress has spent millions of dollars all over


      17        the country doing similar urban infill projects


      18        that you have before you today.  They spent


      19        millions of dollars in anticipation of the


      20        cleanup of the Jackson Square site.  In infill


      21        projects, you have water, sewer infrastructure


      22        that you have to move around, and it causes a


      23        great deal of expense.


      24             The current status of the property is shown


      25        in the handout you have before you.  If you'll





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        look at the inside cover and then follow through


       2        with the next three or four pictures, you'll see


       3        the existing commercial development, both to the


       4        north and south of the project, as well as what


       5        will -- previously, the residential housing


       6        along the rear of the site, along the railroad.


       7             As you, I think, will agree, this is a


       8        substantial upgrade to the current status of the


       9        property.  The current status of the property is


      10        a CCG-2 zoning except for a small strip along


      11        the railroad.


      12             The most intense commercial zoning allowed


      13        under the zoning code is available for use on


      14        this site currently.  The classification will


      15        allow for intense retail activity 24 hours a day


      16        and basically at unlimited heights with


      17        setbacks.


      18             The suggested design of the current


      19        allowable zoning is shown in the handout.


      20             An additional potential zoning on the site


      21        could be a 15- or 20-story hotel with a lot more


      22        than 900 rooms on the site.  It's the intention


      23        of Cypress, however, contrary to the current


      24        zoning, to build a low-rise, mid-rise, mixed-use


      25        development.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The proposed plan is set forth and shown in


       2        the handout you have before you.


       3             The proposed use would include a mix of


       4        single-family, retail and office use, and would


       5        focus around transportation amenities that are


       6        shown on the site.


       7             Cypress has developed this concept, as well


       8        as other developers [sic] in other parts of the


       9        country and in Jacksonville, and you have


      10        photographs of similar mixed-use products that


      11        Cypress has done at other locations.


      12             Before you today is a request for an


      13        approval of a PUD.  That PUD is consistent with


      14        the current land use designation on the site.


      15        This is not a change to the future land use


      16        map.  The current land use designation allows up


      17        to 90 percent residential on the site through


      18        the planned unit development.


      19             Cypress has developed a vision for the


      20        site.  I know it's difficult to visualize


      21        knowing what's in the area now, the proposal


      22        that Cypress has, but we think that the proposal


      23        we have, the vision that Cypress has on the site


      24        as shown in juxtaposition to what's on the


      25        Philips Highway corridor will jump-start





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        particularly the Philips Highway corridor, and


       2        we respectfully request your approval of the


       3        application of the PUD.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


       5             Mr. Franklin.


       6             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have three minutes to


       8        give your opening statement as well.


       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman,


      10        council members.


      11             Tim Franklin, 418 Seagate Avenue, for


      12        San Marco Preservation Society.


      13             My grandfather used to say, "It only takes


      14        a second longer to do something right."  Good


      15        advice to me growing up, and I think good advice


      16        to the council tonight.


      17             What's at stake here on the upside, as Paul


      18        said, you do have an opportunity to potentially


      19        have a vibrant redevelopment, a cure for urban


      20        blight along Philips Highway.  That's a great


      21        upside and a potentially great project.


      22             The downside is -- we have a golden goose,


      23        if you will, in terms of the San Marco


      24        neighborhood, that you don't want to kill by


      25        approving this project without careful





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        consideration and/or careful conditions.  The


       2        project tonight, we have neither one.


       3             In terms of the careful consideration of


       4        this project, there has been a lack of that from


       5        the very outset in terms of the application


       6        proposed.  The site plan was a bubble plan,


       7        pretty standard, but, however, the written


       8        description did not contain the items that the


       9        PUD portions of the code require to contain.  It


      10        still doesn't contain all those things.  But,


      11        despite that, the Planning Department found it


      12        to be sufficient and had two public hearings


      13        based on that site plan and based on the written


      14        description that is very sparse.


      15             These things, again, they -- we believe


      16        they violate our due process.  Some of these


      17        things violate your ordinance code expressly,


      18        and violates express- -- other provisions of


      19        Florida law, and certainly precludes this


      20        committee and council from having competent


      21        substantial evidence on which to make a decision


      22        in this case.


      23             Once they went ahead there, they amended


      24        the application.  That violates another specific


      25        provision of the ordinance code that says no





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendments.  It doesn't say if we accept it,


       2        it's not the developer amending it.  It says


       3        what it says, no amendments or withdrawals after


       4        fees have been paid.  That's been violated.


       5             But even with the amendments, there's a lot


       6        of critical information lacking in the


       7        application.  There's no traffic study, even


       8        though the Institute of Transportation Engineers


       9        requires -- recommends that -- over 750 trips


      10        you do a traffic study.  Not in there.


      11             The study that's in there was done for


      12        concurrency.  We're going to tell you tonight


      13        that that's flawed a little bit.  The DOT study


      14        that they did, that was based on misinformation


      15        and is flawed.


      16             School concurrency information, there's


      17        none in there.  We're going to show you tonight


      18        that it violates that, and that the fair share


      19        that they put in is probably inadequate based on


      20        those two things.


      21             We're going to also show you that it's a


      22        DRI.  In spite of state law requiring it to be


      23        considered as a DRI, they're piecemealing it,


      24        and that's wrong.


      25             There's also no -- they're calling it a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        transit-oriented development.  There's no TOD


       2        standards in their PUD.  There's no written


       3        phasing.  There's no mixed use requirement in


       4        the PUD.  They have an or, or, or.  They could


       5        do 90 percent residential here and not a bit of


       6        commercial.


       7             So those things, we think, haven't been


       8        carefully considered and carefully conditioned.


       9        We're going to have a list of conditions for you


      10        which we'd like you to consider as we go


      11        forward.


      12             Thank you.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      14             Okay.  We've had the opening statements


      15        from both parties.  Now it's time for the


      16        applicant.  You have 15 minutes to present your


      17        case.


      18             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Before you start, I need for


      20        you and whichever witnesses you plan on calling


      21        to be sworn in by the court reporter.


      22             MR. HARDEN:  Well, the witnesses I'm going


      23        to call are here, but they'll be in response to


      24        anything that's presented by Mr. Franklin.  I'm


      25        going to rely on the testimony of the Planning





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Department.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  So you're going to do it as


       3        a rebuttal?


       4             MR. HARDEN:  I'm going to speak --


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  But you're not going to


       6        bring anybody in your 15 minutes to --


       7             MR. HARDEN:  Correct.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, we need to


       9        swear you in, then.


      10             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Diane.


      12             THE REPORTER:  Do you affirm that the


      13        testimony you're about to give will be the


      14        truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the


      15        truth?


      16             MR. HARDEN:  I do.


      17             THE REPORTER:  Thank you.


      18             MR. HARDEN:  Let me do some handouts before


      19        I start, if you don't mind.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      21             MR. HARDEN:  (Tenders documents.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Harden.


      23             MR. HARDEN:  Let me give Mr. Jones a copy,


      24        if I could, Mr. Chairman.


      25             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Just as a preface, in response to


       2        Mr. Franklin's comments, there has been a great


       3        deal of careful consideration of this proposal.


       4        The only amendment which we prepared but we


       5        can't amend, you can't amend, was at the


       6        specific request of his client.  They asked for


       7        five changes to the written description; we put


       8        them in there.


       9             Now, you can see the comments that -- he


      10        thinks he's gearing up for litigation, but we


      11        feel very comfortable that the actions of your


      12        staff and your professional staff, in the review


      13        of this, adequately comply with the law, and


      14        we're prepared to defend it.


      15             Cypress initially presented the Planning


      16        Department, many, many months ago, the Jackson


      17        Square concept.  The Planning Department


      18        reviewed in great detail the documents


      19        presented, and on several occasions requested


      20        additional input prior to moving forward with


      21        the application.


      22             Before presenting the application to you,


      23        there was a great deal of research and gathering


      24        of information.  The Jackson Square application


      25        has not only been the product of many, many





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hours by the engineers and traffic consultants


       2        and planners that Cypress has used to prepare


       3        the document, but many, many hours of work by


       4        your Planning Department and the Development


       5        Services department of the City of


       6        Jacksonville.


       7             The many hours of work by the Planning


       8        Department resulted in a detailed report which


       9        contained the imposition of 12 additional


      10        conditions, over and above the many conditions


      11        that were required by the Planning Department as


      12        part of the sufficiency review.  So we went


      13        through a review, there were amendments


      14        requested to the application before it was


      15        presented, and now there are an additional 12


      16        conditions on top of that, on top of the five


      17        that actually were given to us initially by the


      18        San Marco Preservation group.


      19             Following the initial written description,


      20        we took that input from the San Marco


      21        Preservation group and asked you to amend the


      22        application for us, which is allowable under the


      23        code.


      24             One of the specific requests, for example,


      25        was a height request that moved from 90 feet





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        down to 70 feet that we agreed to at their


       2        request.


       3             Following that initial community meeting, a


       4        request for a deferral was made by


       5        Mr. Franklin's client.  They said they wanted to


       6        review the process and meet with us.  That's


       7        been over the last -- Councilman Shad said five,


       8        I count six weeks, but -- there's been six weeks


       9        since the full process was geared up to go


      10        forward with this application.


      11             During that time, while we did not receive


      12        a request for a meeting, we received, from the


      13        San Marco Preservation group, a list of


      14        questions, which I have referred to as


      15        interrogatories, and you have a copy of those.


      16             These are questions that were sent to us


      17        specifically to glean the information that


      18        Mr. Franklin feels wasn't put in the


      19        application.  And in all due respect, it's the


      20        information the Planning Department thinks they


      21        deemed sufficient, but on top of that, they sent


      22        us this set of interrogatories, or questions,


      23        and those are -- that's information that they


      24        felt was left out, and we provided that document


      25        to them, now, about two-and-a-half weeks ago.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The questions go into great detail about


       2        percentages and heights and activity on the


       3        site, and that is all included in our


       4        application.


       5             Two business days ago, I received from the


       6        San Marco Preservation group a list of 17


       7        additional conditions to burden the site.  Those


       8        proposed conditions included nine topics.  Those


       9        topics were obviously the River Oaks access, the


      10        transit-oriented development information, what


      11        they called "clarity," the Jacksonville Journey


      12        multifamily housing requirements, parking,


      13        phasing, additional height limitations,


      14        recreation and landscaping.


      15             With regard to the River Oaks issue, in all


      16        due respect, we agree with the Planning


      17        Department, and I'm going to present you some


      18        statistics and make available information to you


      19        why we think River Oaks should stay open.


      20             With regard to the transit-oriented


      21        development, that matter was fully vetted by


      22        your planning staff and dealt with by the


      23        planning staff.


      24             Additionally, the developer is at the mercy


      25        of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority on





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        timing with regard to the transit-oriented


       2        development.


       3             The site plan and written description


       4        include a 30-foot-wide right-of-way along the


       5        railroad for rapid rail, if and when [sic] such


       6        time that's available.


       7             The design and site plan include a bus


       8        facility that would rival any in the city of


       9        Jacksonville for mass transit activity.  Indeed,


      10        the Planning Department has added an upgraded


      11        condition 6, I believe it is, that becomes more


      12        specific about that bus activity and it includes


      13        a site plan on the design.


      14             So with regard to transit-oriented


      15        development, we believe the Planning Department


      16        has dealt with that.


      17             With regard to River Oaks Road, the -- we


      18        just basically disagree.


      19             On the other hand, the additional seven


      20        topics that were presented to us two days ago


      21        were the subject of agreed-upon conditions we


      22        agreed to add on to the application.


      23             Councilman Shad asked Ms. Eller to reduce


      24        those to writing.  She was the scrivener at the


      25        meeting.  We agreed to them.  The





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        representatives of San Marco Preservation agreed


       2        to them.  And we were agreeable to adding on,


       3        again, an additional seven conditions.


       4             In all due respect, I think a cursory


       5        review of the Planning Department report shows


       6        that the issues that were newly raised two


       7        business days ago were included in the Planning


       8        Department's report, but for accommodation and


       9        clarity sake, we were agreeable and agreed to


      10        those seven additional conditions.


      11             About 20 minutes ago -- or 20 minutes


      12        before the agenda meeting, I received a list of


      13        an additional ten conditions that reworded the


      14        seven conditions that we agreed to just two


      15        business days ago.


      16             In all due respect, I don't think it's


      17        appropriate -- particularly since the Planning


      18        Department has vetted all of these issues, we


      19        agreed to a set of conditions just two days


      20        ago -- to come up with an additional group of


      21        conditions that reword things that we dealt with


      22        several days ago.


      23             This is a very, very reviewed process by


      24        the Planning Department.  They dealt with all


      25        these issues, and we respectfully request that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the conditions Mr. Franklin has mentioned and


       2        the new ones that we got an hour ago, after a


       3        six-week deferral -- remember, that six-week


       4        deferral came after five weeks of scheduled


       5        public hearings and meetings.


       6             I just don't think it's an appropriate


       7        methodology to review the site -- and, in all


       8        due respect, the items that are listed were the


       9        nine that I went through, are included in the


      10        Planning Department report and the conditions


      11        that we agreed to at the meeting Councilman Shad


      12        prepared.


      13             With regard to the remaining issue -- and I


      14        think it's been identified -- the River Road


      15        [sic] access activity, you can see by the


      16        handout that our project will not have a


      17        substantial effect on River Oaks Road.


      18             Let me -- our traffic engineer is here and


      19        will testify if you have questions.


      20             River Oaks Road is functioning today at


      21        7 percent capacity.  Not 70, Danny Warfel's


      22        number, 7 percent capacity on its current


      23        activity.


      24             The Planning Department, since the Planning


      25        Commission activity, has done a traffic study to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        make a determination with regard to access to


       2        Summerall.  And it's not access directly on


       3        River Oaks Road.  There's a stub-out -- you can


       4        see on the site plan that's a part of the


       5        handout -- it goes between the JEA industrial


       6        site and an existing commercial facility that


       7        adds Summerall to that site.


       8             We believe that the access to Summerall is


       9        important for the same reasons the Planning


      10        Department does, life safety reasons, you know,


      11        police and fire.  Proper planning would suggest


      12        that there be some access off the site onto


      13        River Oaks to meet the needs of utility and


      14        service entrances.  The JEA wants that as the


      15        access.  As I told you, we had to deal with a


      16        multitude of infrastructure needs there -- and


      17        the JEA has their site there at that location --


      18        and interconnectivity.


      19             The Planning Department and the City of


      20        Jacksonville, as Mr. Kelly said, strongly


      21        supports the Summerall access.  The folks who


      22        don't want that access suggest that it will


      23        overburden River Oaks Road.  Again, at 7 percent


      24        capacity now.


      25             If you will look at the other handout I





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        handed out to you, that's a report prepared by


       2        your Planning Department.  What it says is, with


       3        full access to River Oaks Road off Summerall,


       4        there will be 29 peak-hour trips coming from


       5        this project.


       6             If you put what I now know is a chicane on


       7        the Summerall access and make sure that you can


       8        only do a left in, not a right out -- that would


       9        be a limited access -- it would result in


      10        24 peak-hour trips onto River Oaks Road.  That's


      11        on there.  And then with no access off


      12        Summerall, the project will result in


      13        19 peak-hour trips.  So the difference between


      14        full access and limited access is ten peak-hour


      15        trips on a parcel -- on a road that has


      16        7 percent capacity currently.


      17             Now, I would again suggest that that is a


      18        de minimis impact on the site, but don't forget,


      19        it's 17 acres of CCG-2 zoned land.  So without


      20        this PUD and the project were to be developed


      21        consistent with the current zoning -- there's a


      22        report from the -- it came out at the Planning


      23        Commission meeting -- that says the trips off


      24        the site would be about 12,500.  That's a DOT


      25        report that the San Marco Preservation group





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        gave to the Planning Commission.


       2             Our project has about 8,000 trips a day.


       3        So about two-thirds, using their numbers, of the


       4        trips.  So our project, even if you use the full


       5        number of trips in the Planning Department's


       6        report, it's still 66 percent of what you


       7        could -- if the site were developed as currently


       8        proposed.  And, in addition, it only burdens an


       9        additional five -- excuse me, ten peak-hour


      10        trips to the location.


      11             In response to questions raised by the


      12        community, the Planning Department actually went


      13        out to determine what the impact was, and I


      14        would respectfully suggest that that's the most


      15        competent substantial information that you can


      16        have before you on that.


      17             We believe it's an unfounded fear that


      18        River Oaks Road will be negatively impacted.


      19             And while I'm talking about that, I keep


      20        hearing rumors and people keep coming back and


      21        saying that we want to four-lane River Oaks


      22        Road, we want to put in traffic -- parking


      23        spaces.  We don't want to do anything to River


      24        Oaks Road that the neighbors don't want done.


      25             The Planning Department initially suggested





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        two things:


       2             One, traffic calming devices; humps, if you


       3        will, on the road.  We said that we would agree


       4        to put those in.


       5             And, second, a neighborhood identification


       6        sign at the railroad track.  As you move -- I


       7        think as Sean indicated -- from across the


       8        railroad track, to use a euphemism, to the east,


       9        you go into a full industrial-zoned and


      10        developed area with commercial as you get to


      11        Philips Highway.  As you go west across the


      12        tracks, it's single-family.  So the Planning


      13        Department suggested perhaps identifying that


      14        neighborhood would also be a traffic calming


      15        activity.


      16             So to make our position clear, we don't


      17        want to four-lane River Oaks Road.  We don't


      18        want to put in additional parking spaces.  We


      19        don't want to do anything to River Oaks Road


      20        that the folks who live there don't want.


      21             If they want the traffic calming devices,


      22        we'll be happy to participate as part of the


      23        project.


      24             It is our hope that you will approve this


      25        application as approved by the Planning





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Department with the 12 conditions that they


       2        proposed as part of their additional -- I guess


       3        there's an amended number 6 condition, so the


       4        12 conditions as amended by condition number --


       5        no it's 8, I'm sorry.  Condition 8.


       6             MS. ELLER:  Six.


       7             MR. HARDEN:  Six?  All right.  Thank you.


       8             Now, on top of that, we are agreeable to


       9        the seven conditions that we thought everybody


      10        agreed to Friday, that Ms. Eller reduced to


      11        writing.


      12             In all due respect, we believe the Planning


      13        Commission additional condition is not warranted


      14        due to the fact of the limited activity on


      15        River Oaks now and the limited amount of


      16        activity that will be shown by the -- that's


      17        shown by the Planning Department's report with


      18        regard to the matter.


      19             So, with that, I'll close our presentation


      20        and certainly be happy to answer any questions


      21        at the appropriate time.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.


      23             I think -- do I take -- cross-examine now


      24        of the applicant?


      25             MS. ELLER:  If Tim has anything to say.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you have five


       2        minutes to cross-examine.


       3             Mr. Harden, don't go too far.


       4             MR. HARDEN:  I'm not.  I'm just staying out


       5        of --


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  It may work a little easier


       7        if -- Mr. Crofts, if you can give him your mic.


       8             MR. CROFTS:  (Complies.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  That way we don't have to


      10        worry about Mr. Harden hitting you.


      11             MR. FRANKLIN:  First of all, Mr. Harden,


      12        talking about the --


      13             MR. HARDEN:  Tim, I'm not going to hit you.


      14             MR. FRANKLIN:  Pardon?


      15             MR. HARDEN:  I'm not going to hit you.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  He's not going to hit you.


      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  Oh.  Thank you.


      18             Talking about the deferral, isn't it a fact


      19        that at least two of the weeks of the deferral


      20        were due to the councilman's request and another


      21        week was at the request for you on vacation?


      22             MR. HARDEN:  No.


      23             The original request for deferral came at


      24        the request of San Marco Preservation standing


      25        here at a public meeting before the LUZ





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Committee.  That resulted in a hearing that was


       2        set for Tuesday night where I had a meeting with


       3        Lehman Brothers in New York City that had been


       4        planned for about three months.  Unfortunately,


       5        it was the day after they went bankrupt.  And so


       6        I couldn't be here on that night.  It was a


       7        meeting I couldn't change.  And it was said at


       8        that time, it won't be a two-week deferral


       9        because there's a fifth week; it will be a


      10        five-week deferral.  Ultimately, it worked out


      11        to be a six-week deferral.


      12             So it was never at my request.  It was


      13        never for a vacation.  It was never at a


      14        councilman's request.  It was at Ms. Boyer's


      15        request.


      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Isn't it a fact,


      17        though, that during the deferral on September


      18        17th that that's when we actually received a


      19        revised site plan and a revised written


      20        description, was during the deferral period?


      21             MR. HARDEN:  During the deferral period we


      22        had already scheduled a meeting with generally


      23        the River Oaks community, with some San Marco


      24        Preservation folks at the site.


      25             We went to that meeting.  I went to the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        meeting.  Mr. Cissel was there, all of our


       2        consultants were there.


       3             At that time, there were requests for five


       4        changes to the site plan and five -- or five


       5        changes to the written description and site


       6        plan.  We accommodated those requests.  If you


       7        want them taken back out, we'll be happy to do


       8        that, if you think that's a change.  So I'm


       9        offering to do that.  If they prefer to stick


      10        with the original site plan and written


      11        description, we're happy to do that.


      12             But, yes, that's when it happened, at the


      13        request of your clients.  But if you want to


      14        take it back, we'll take it back.


      15             MR. FRANKLIN:  No.  We'll keep them in.


      16             You had mentioned, Paul, in talking about


      17        how many of the changed conditions and things


      18        like that and talking about the seven conditions


      19        at the meeting of Friday -- isn't it a fact that


      20        those seven conditions were essentially proposed


      21        as part of the list by San Marco at the Planning


      22        Commission the day before?


      23             The seven conditions talked about on


      24        Friday -- at the meeting with Councilman Shad on


      25        Friday, came from the list of conditions





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        tendered to the Planning Commission the day


       2        before at the public hearing?


       3             MR. HARDEN:  I don't think it was the day


       4        before the -- because there was a fifth week,


       5        Planning Commission met a week before that.


       6             MR. FRANKLIN:  A week before that, that's


       7        correct.


       8             MR. HARDEN:  And at that time they tendered


       9        a list of, I think, 14 conditions.  Those were a


      10        different set of conditions that were tendered


      11        at the meeting and yet a different set of


      12        conditions that were tendered today.


      13             They dealt with the same subjects, to


      14        answer your question.  Councilman Shad had us go


      15        through the entire list.  He asked what we could


      16        agree on.  Things we couldn't agree on, we


      17        didn't discuss.  Things that we could agree


      18        on --


      19             Ms. Eller was the scrivener.  I didn't


      20        write them down.  She wrote down what the


      21        agreements were, and we agreed to those.  In


      22        fact, there were some pretty substantial


      23        concessions on height and landscaping and that


      24        sort of stuff.


      25             And, you know, we thought that was a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        resolution of the matter, but the topics were


       2        the same, the conditions were different I think


       3        is the answer to your question.


       4             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Talking about some of


       5        the -- the access to River Road [sic] issues


       6        that you mentioned, you mentioned one that JEA,


       7        for utility service entrances --


       8             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.


       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  -- and access, didn't -- JEA


      10        owns a piece of property on the southwest


      11        corner, where the water plant is?


      12             MR. HARDEN:  JEA, yeah.


      13             MR. FRANKLIN:  And that property is


      14        actually under contract to be a part of, I


      15        guess, an integrated development?


      16             MR. HARDEN:  Well, yeah.


      17             You can see on the site plan the location


      18        of the JEA facility.  It's out-moded


      19        infrastructure facility.


      20             As part of our activity, we've agreed to


      21        update some of the infrastructure there, but the


      22        JEA will -- you know, it's not just for our


      23        capacity.  It would be capacity for the whole


      24        San Marco/Philips Highway area, so it would


      25        accommodate, you know, some portion -- small





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        portion for our project as well, yes.


       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Just my point -- only


       3        point was going to be if JEA needed access to


       4        the property, you guys could agree to put a


       5        fence somewhere between their property and yours


       6        to allow some kind of emergency additional


       7        access that wouldn't be an ingress/egress point


       8        for the entire development?


       9             MR. HARDEN:  Certainly we could allow that,


      10        and that -- be happy to do that.


      11             That's not the Planning Commission


      12        condition.  They conditioned it -- cutting it


      13        off at Summerall, which would require immediate


      14        access from the JEA off of River Oaks Road, not


      15        Summerall.


      16             Currently, the JEA goes out on Summerall


      17        and then to River Oaks Road.  That's their


      18        access.  If you were to cut off the Summerall


      19        access, they'd have to go out onto River Oaks


      20        Road directly.


      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  I think the JEA


      22        property is actually to the southwest, so I


      23        don't think they access off of Summerall.  I


      24        think it's River Oaks, but -- just meaning


      25        that they could --





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             You mentioned a life safety issue.  Isn't


       2        it true that for multifamily housing that one of


       3        the recommendations of life safety and of


       4        anticrime initiatives is that you limit access


       5        and to have a central access point rather than


       6        have multiple accesses to a large multifamily


       7        facility such as this?


       8             MR. HARDEN:  Well, one of the requested


       9        conditions -- I think it actually came from


      10        Councilman Joost, but they added it in, was that


      11        we comply with the Jacksonville Journey


      12        conditions with regard to multifamily and


      13        controlled access -- it's not limited access,


      14        controlled access -- so that at each location


      15        where there is an access it would be


      16        controlled.  I don't think limiting it to one


      17        door is what they're proposing.


      18             Life safety, if you have Philips Highway --


      19        say you have a bad wreck on Philips Highway and


      20        it blocks the Philips Highway entrance and you


      21        want to get in for a fire truck on River Oaks


      22        Road, that's what I mean by life safety issues.


      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  And the proposal has


      24        two other entrances to the north --


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, your five





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        minutes are up.


       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.


       3             MR. HARDEN:  I'll stand here and answer


       4        questions as long as he likes, Mr. Chairman.


       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  I only had one more, if I


       6        could get one more.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll let you get that last


       8        one.


       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      10             And if you could answer the one I just


      11        asked, if there are two entrances on Mark and


      12        Mitchell to the north.


      13             MR. HARDEN:  That's correct.


      14             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Last question, Paul.


      15             You mentioned about the -- projected


      16        somewhere between five -- or excuse me -- yeah,


      17        five or ten additional peak-hour trips,


      18        depending upon the -- based on Mr. Kelly's


      19        methodology.  The average --


      20             MR. HARDEN:  Whose methodology?


      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Was it Ms. King?


      22             MR. HARDEN:  Oh.


      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  I'm not sure.  Did Ms. King


      24        prepare that?


      25             I know that it was --





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  (Inaudible.)


       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  We'll come back to that.


       3             My question was, by the department's


       4        methodology on the average daily trips on it,


       5        it's approximated to be about 850, 847; is that


       6        about right?


       7             MR. HARDEN:  I don't have those numbers in


       8        front of me.


       9             I only dealt with the peak-hour trips on


      10        River Oaks Road.  Those are, 19 with no access,


      11        24 with the chicane or the one-way-in,


      12        one-way-out access, and 29 with full access,


      13        which by mathematical -- means 10 additional


      14        peak-hour trips on the project -- on the road,


      15        that, as I said, is 7 percent of its current


      16        capacity.


      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      19             Thank you, Mr. Harden.


      20             MR. HARDEN:  Thanks.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you have


      22        15 minutes to present your case.


      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             Briefly, if I could, before I start, I've


      25        got some -- I guess the latest and greatest that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Paul was talking about, he received a little bit


       2        ago, the set of conditions.


       3             We sent these out yesterday, but if I could


       4        pass these out here.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


       6             MR. FRANKLIN:  I think there should be


       7        sufficient copies.  If there's not, I have more.


       8             Let me say this:  The intent with the


       9        conditions, as Paul had said, they -- they've


      10        stayed the same.  We've basically got about six


      11        little areas, landscape, transit-orient [sic],


      12        access to River Oaks Road.


      13             The conditions really haven't changed from


      14        what we proposed at Planning Commission.  We


      15        have simply consolidated them to make them


      16        easier to read.  There are one or two that we


      17        tightened up a little bit on them, some of the


      18        language.  There were one or two that we


      19        actually relaxed to allow a little more -- for


      20        example, we had proposed, I believe -- for


      21        instance, one condition, 276 units with 20,000


      22        retail.  We now said up to 300 units with 18,000


      23        retail.


      24             So we -- they're essentially the same


      25        conditions, committee members.  There's nothing





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        new here, no surprises, if you will.  We're just


       2        at a standstill on getting agreement on these


       3        conditions.


       4             In the first condition Mr. Harden had spoke


       5        of, you know, the River Oaks access, the --


       6        actually, the Planning Commission -- and I've


       7        got the transcript here.  Paul said, we will


       8        work with you on whatever condition you come up


       9        with.  And there was a couple of comments to


      10        that perspective at Planning Commission.  I


      11        mean, whatever you want to do, that road is


      12        not -- several commissioners suggested it wasn't


      13        vital to the project.  It's not a necessity, so


      14        why do it.  Paul said -- and I could quote him,


      15        but -- and I will just for fun:


      16             "We're going to accept whatever solution


      17        you-all propose."


      18             Mr. Hardesty:  "Fair enough."


      19             They accepted at Planning Commission and


      20        now they're here telling you it is a do-or-die


      21        issue.  Well, I'm here to tell you it's a


      22        do-or-die issue for this neighborhood.  That


      23        condition, above everything else that you're


      24        looking at today, that is the one that the


      25        neighborhood needs.  That's the one they believe





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        is going to be most critical to the preservation


       2        of San Marco.


       3             Again, let's face it, that's the reason


       4        they want to build this project here, is because


       5        it's a very successful TND neighborhood.


       6        There's bungalows, there's mansions on the


       7        river, there's rental properties, owner-occupied


       8        properties, all in a nice, mixed-use area with a


       9        great mix of retail, service, restaurants,


      10        office, and it works.  And that's why they want


      11        to be close to it.  And we -- we're going to


      12        protect that.


      13             So that condition, just looking at that


      14        one, River Oaks, we -- we do think that that's


      15        very important.


      16             And I do have a couple of questions for


      17        staff, and I may -- I don't know exactly who I'm


      18        going to call on yet, if we can maybe have them


      19        sworn in, Mr. Chairman.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  You want to swear in the


      21        staff?


      22             MR. FRANKLIN:  I would like to.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Speaking of -- stop the


      24        clock for a second.  We didn't swear you in.


      25             THE REPORTER:  Do you affirm that the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        testimony you're about to give will be the


       2        truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the


       3        truth?


       4             MR. FRANKLIN:  I do.


       5             THE REPORTER:  Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, since you're there,


       7        let's get the staff -- go ahead.  Put your arms


       8        up, all of you.  You too, Shannon.


       9             Go ahead.  Do it again.


      10             THE REPORTER:  Do you affirm that the


      11        testimony you're about to give will be the


      12        truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the


      13        truth?


      14             (Mr. Kelly, Mr. Huxford, Mr. Avery,


      15        Mr. Crofts, and Ms. Eller respond


      16        affirmatively.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.


      18             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you.


      19             And let me say too, you know, we -- this is


      20        not the -- Paul would participate in the


      21        meeting -- chicanery or that the developer is


      22        not trustworthy and reputable.  These people are


      23        all trustworthy and reputable people.  The


      24        question here is -- our real concern -- and I


      25        think it's apparent now -- we're worried about





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        market changes.  We're worried about what


       2        happens if the worst thing happens.  What


       3        happens if there's a successor developer here or


       4        a bank that is the developer of this project,


       5        what conditions are going to be on them to make


       6        this thing work?  Are they going to widdle it


       7        down to the best possible alternative?


       8             Those things happen.  We've just seen it


       9        happen, and so it's not some far off concept of,


      10        yeah, but it will probably be okay.  No, it's


      11        happening.  So you don't want it to happen at


      12        this prime location.  That's why we're


      13        suggesting these conditions.


      14             But I'd like to ask, I guess, Sean Kelly a


      15        few questions about some of the traffic issues


      16        because that's our -- that's what's at stake


      17        here on River Oaks Road.


      18             Mr. Kelly, do you have a copy of the -- I


      19        guess it would be the table 1 trip generation


      20        that was prepared in the original report?  This


      21        one, Sean, where it comes up with total of 8,496


      22        new trips, if you will, or daily trips on the


      23        property?


      24             MR. KELLY:  I've got a copy of trip


      25        generation table 1, but it's dated October 2nd,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        2008.


       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  What final number do


       3        you have on that -- or what number comes up?


       4             MR. KELLY:  Average daily trips --


       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Yes.


       6             MR. KELLY:  -- or p.m. peak hour?


       7             MR. FRANKLIN:  I'd go with the average


       8        daily.


       9             MR. KELLY:  Daily trips are 8,496.


      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  So we're coming up


      11        with essentially the same numbers.


      12             A couple of questions about that real


      13        quickly, Sean.


      14             First one, if you look in the -- and,


      15        council members, this is in some of your


      16        original materials too, but --


      17             There's an internal capture rate that


      18        they're using to come up with the number of


      19        trips.  Apartments, there's 17.74; commercial,


      20        13.08; general office, 8.58.  My question to


      21        Sean, where did -- does that internal capture


      22        rate, is that related to the mix of commercial


      23        to residential?  Is that related to being a


      24        mixed-use development?


      25             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  My question, then, is


       2        that based on the maximum -- or I guess the


       3        target of 65 percent residential and 35 percent


       4        commercial, is that where that internal capture


       5        rate comes from?


       6             MR. KELLY:  That internal capture rate is


       7        based on the concurrency application and the


       8        number of dwelling units and square feet of


       9        office and square feet of commercial.


      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Which is essentially about a


      11        65/35 mix, if I'm correct on that, residential


      12        to -- gross floor area of commercial and office;


      13        is that about right?


      14             MR. KELLY:  It depends on how big the units


      15        are.


      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Well, let me just ask


      17        it this way:  Using whatever units, is there


      18        anything in the PUD that would require them to


      19        build or not build a certain number of


      20        residential units or a certain number of


      21        commercial units?


      22             MR. KELLY:  The PUD deals with maximum


      23        amounts of residential units and maximum amounts


      24        of commercial and office.


      25             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  But, in other words,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the -- the PUD, as I read the written


       2        description, simply says a mix of this


       3        residential or office or retail.  It doesn't


       4        require them to build a mixed-use development,


       5        in fact?


       6             MR. KELLY:  The underlying land use would


       7        require the mixed-use development.  The CGC land


       8        use cannot be single -- residential use.


       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  But it could be up to


      10        90 percent residential and 10 percent


      11        commercial, and they'd be in compliance with the


      12        comp plan and the PUD, correct?


      13             MR. KELLY:  No.  The site plan specifically


      14        shows designated commercial/retail uses on the


      15        first floor of the buildings in Phase I and


      16        Phase II, so I'd say that ultimately 10 percent


      17        would be inconsistent with the site plan which


      18        generates a larger percentage.


      19             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, that's assuming that


      20        the site plan is multistory or assuming, the


      21        residential, they could go up four stories


      22        and -- they could go up actually to 75 feet with


      23        the residential and first floor commercial, and


      24        they would be about 90 and 10 percent?


      25             In other words, your assumption is based on





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        them building equal amounts of commercial and


       2        residential, I guess, floors, if you will, in


       3        each space, Sean?


       4             MR. KELLY:  No.  I mean, the assumption is


       5        based on the site plan and the specific


       6        dimensions of the office component, building,


       7        which is, I believe, a -- a one- or two-story


       8        building at the northeast end of the development


       9        and then based upon the commercial ground floor


      10        retail components along Jackson Square Boulevard


      11        and the Philips Highway frontage.


      12             MR. FRANKLIN:  That site plan is just a


      13        floor plan?  It doesn't show any heights or


      14        story buildings on that?  That is merely a floor


      15        plan --


      16             MR. KELLY:  It's a horizontal plan.


      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  It's not elevations, so


      18        there's no -- there's no actual limitations on


      19        that site plan that would require all those to


      20        be one story or all to be four?  Some could be


      21        four, some could be one?  And no particular


      22        building is required to be any certain height or


      23        size, correct?


      24             MR. KELLY:  There's maximum heights set out


      25        in the written description.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. FRANKLIN:  Right.  But the site plan


       2        doesn't require any particular building to be


       3        any certain height?


       4             MR. KELLY:  (Nods head.)


       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  The other thing I


       6        wanted to ask you about, Mr. Kelly, just real


       7        quick.  Same memorandum -- or same table showing


       8        certain land use codes there for the traffic


       9        generation.  We're showing an 843 and a 942,


      10        automotive parts sales credit, automotive care


      11        center credit.  Are you familiar with that?


      12             MR. KELLY:  (Nods head.)


      13             MR. FRANKLIN:  They're being given a credit


      14        on those.


      15             Aren't those land use codes associated more


      16        frequently with Auto Zones and other stores?


      17             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.


      18             That is credit from the previous use of the


      19        property.


      20             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Isn't it true,


      21        though, that the land use code 841, new car


      22        sales, would include as a component a


      23        substantial amount of used car sales and also


      24        parts and accessories and servicing under that


      25        land use code for just the new automotive





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sales?


       2             MR. KELLY:  I would have to look at the ITE


       3        definition of what that entailed, but it seems


       4        plausible.


       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, I'm going to turn in,


       6        if I can, Mr. Chairman, a -- just a brief table


       7        prepared by Richard McCubbin, former City


       8        traffic engineer.  Mr. McCubbin has basically


       9        estimated a couple of things here, but the big


      10        one being that -- using those numbers, come up


      11        with about -- approximately 400 more trips by


      12        reducing the credit they're getting because a


      13        new car place has used car sales and it has


      14        automotive service, so they're giving too great


      15        of a credit with that.


      16             So I'd like to tender this for the record,


      17        if I could.


      18             Last question for Mr. Kelly.


      19             The DOT memorandum, Mr. Kelly, that they


      20        turned in, are you familiar with that?  It's


      21        actually addressed to Aaron Glick, dated July


      22        22nd, 2008.


      23             MR. KELLY:  I've got it.


      24             MR. FRANKLIN:  Could I get a time count?


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have five-and-a-half





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        minutes.


       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Very quickly.  The


       3        FDOT generated their numbers by using


       4        approximately -- about 264,000 of retail, and


       5        it's correct, they came up -- they estimated


       6        12,761 trips based on that amount of retail,


       7        correct?


       8             MR. KELLY:  They used land use ITE code


       9        820.


      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  A shopping center?


      11             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      12             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  And we're using a


      13        retail code and office -- we're using


      14        approximately 150 of retail, 200 of office, and


      15        900 residential units, and coming up with 8,400


      16        or Richard's number is about 8,800, whichever


      17        you accept, correct?  Based on table 3 in


      18        Richard's memorandum.


      19             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      20             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Thanks.


      21             Real quick, just basically three questions


      22        for Shannon, if I could -- Ms. Eller.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      24             MR. FRANKLIN:  Through the Chair to


      25        Ms. Eller.  Shannon, a PUD ordinance is a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        development order under Florida Statutes?


       2             MS. ELLER:  Yes.


       3             MR. FRANKLIN:  And development orders,


       4        generally under -- mainly rule 9J-5, are


       5        required to meet concurrency -- or to use the


       6        laymen's terms, required to be concurrent with


       7        the impacts measured under 9J-5, all development


       8        orders?


       9             MS. ELLER:  Yes.


      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  And just -- last


      11        question.  Schools are an element now under


      12        state law of concurrency?


      13             MS. ELLER:  Yes.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,


      15        Ms. Eller.


      16             Just like to turn this in for the record.


      17        It's an e-mail.  Some of you may have this


      18        already.  It's from John Loehnert of Duval


      19        schools to Councilman Shad, just referencing the


      20        fact that at present the two -- elementary


      21        school and the high school are over capacity,


      22        where they would be going to.


      23             Now, we know we're going through


      24        redistricting, and that's all fine, but it's --


      25        it's well and good to say, well, we're going





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        through redistricting.  That doesn't take care


       2        of the problem that this PUD has never been


       3        through concurrency.


       4             The fact that concurrency has been done for


       5        the property is fine.  The fact that that was


       6        filed before school concurrency was an element


       7        of our concurrency office analysis, that's all


       8        well and good, but this PUD is actually


       9        approving residential units and has to be


      10        verified to be concurrent and meeting the


      11        impacts.  If not, it's a violation of state law,


      12        and it's going to be -- it's going to be


      13        rejected on that basis.


      14             The better question is, why would you want


      15        to approve something not knowing if it's going


      16        to impact the schools?  We don't know yet which


      17        schools when the redistricting goes forward, so


      18        why wouldn't you put a requirement in the PUD


      19        that they go through, at the end of the day, and


      20        be required to show that they meet the impacts?


      21             Right now, before redistricting, they


      22        wouldn't.


      23             Another issue that comes up again -- and


      24        you may have some of these in the file.  I'll


      25        turn these in for the record (indicating).





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Just parts of the CCAS applications and


       2        concurrency management office applications show


       3        this as one aggregate development.  You actually


       4        have commonality of developers with this


       5        project, this PUD, and the project across the


       6        street.


       7             We believe that this project here is right


       8        under the DRI thresholds by itself.  I mean,


       9        we're talking about one or two units or one or


      10        two square feet.


      11             If you go across for a mixed-use project --


      12        if you go across the street and include that,


      13        it's way over, way over.  And we believe we have


      14        commonality of development.  They have a common


      15        development plan, commonality of the developers,


      16        and we believe this is going to constitute a


      17        DRI, where a traffic study would be required and


      18        all sorts of other things under state law,


      19        notwithstanding whatever the City code


      20        required.


      21             But you've got to ask yourself why none of


      22        these things are being requested in this case,


      23        traffic studies and those sort of things,


      24        privately, just to see what the impacts are on


      25        the street.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Another issue, we -- one of our conditions,


       2        you'll see, has to do with phasing.  I'd like to


       3        turn in some of these -- they've essentially


       4        said in Phase I they need 281 units.  We're very


       5        close to that in what we've suggested in


       6        phasing.


       7             The phasing will actually go through and


       8        ensure that this is going to be a mixed-use


       9        project.


      10             The last, really, issues -- landscaping is


      11        kind of off the table.  Rec/open space, as long


      12        as they meet the comprehensive plan.


      13             Some of the bigger things -- if it's going


      14        to be a transit-oriented development, why not


      15        have those conditions in the PUD and the written


      16        description?


      17             This doesn't have anything referencing


      18        Part 14 that the council adopted just very


      19        recently.  There's no requirement that they meet


      20        any of those standards.


      21             Again, it makes little sense to tout it as


      22        a transit-oriented development and not have any


      23        of those things in there.  We would ask that you


      24        require them to meet those conditions.


      25             The height limit, again, makes a lot of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sense.  It's a buffer now, should stay a buffer.


       2             The bottom line:  River Oaks Road, that's a


       3        concern we have.  That's the major concern.  A


       4        huge amount of trips on that road.  It's not a


       5        question of peak-hour trips; it's a question of


       6        the average daily trips, about 850 to 880, at a


       7        minimum, on that road, in addition to what there


       8        are now.  That's the thing that's going to


       9        impact the neighborhood.  Those are the trips


      10        that need to be precluded, under the comp plan,


      11        from intruding into this neighborhood.


      12             You have an opportunity to do it.  Planning


      13        Commission did it.  All you have to do is accept


      14        it.  It won't kill the deal.  They'll find a way


      15        to do this with that access, and so we'd ask you


      16        to do it because this is -- that's the do-or-die


      17        deal for this neighborhood, and they're going to


      18        protect it and stand up for it.


      19             Thank you.


      20             Otherwise, we'll -- let me say this:


      21        Otherwise, you know, with these conditions in


      22        here, this turns into a very viable, good


      23        project.  We just want to make sure it ends up


      24        being transit-oriented.  We want to make sure


      25        it's consistent with the existing residential





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        neighborhood.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, your


       3        15 minutes is up and you'll have five minutes at


       4        the end to conclude.


       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's what it sounds like


       7        you were doing now.


       8             MR. FRANKLIN:  Yeah.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Hold on a second.


      10             Mr. Harden, do you have any


      11        cross-examination?


      12             MR. HARDEN:  Can I cross-examine Mr. Kelly,


      13        his witness?


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  You can do Mr. Kelly when


      15        you do the rebuttal.


      16             MR. HARDEN:  That was his witness.  I was


      17        going to --


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Sure.  Fair enough.


      19             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Kelly, have you reviewed


      20        the traffic report that the Planning Department


      21        did?


      22             MR. KELLY:  The trip generation table?


      23             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.


      24             MR. KELLY:  Yes.


      25             MR. HARDEN:  Notwithstanding Mr. Franklin's





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        comments, do you believe it to be accurate?


       2             MR. KELLY:  Yes.


       3             MR. HARDEN:  Is there anything that he said


       4        that would make you think that the information


       5        contained in your very thorough report is


       6        inaccurate?


       7             MR. KELLY:  No.


       8             MR. HARDEN:  Do you stand by the


       9        information in there?


      10             MR. KELLY:  Absolutely.


      11             MR. HARDEN:  What is the difference in


      12        peak-hour trips on that report for a full access


      13        on Summerall and no access on Summerall?


      14             MR. KELLY:  It's ten net trips.


      15             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.  That's all I have.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      17             Now --


      18             MR. FRANKLIN:  Real quick.  Normally you


      19        get redirect.  I just have one question of


      20        Mr. Kelly.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  You will get rebuttal time.


      22             Hold on.  I'm following the rules.


      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, we are -- we're going


      25        to public comment, and then after we're done





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        with public comment, both you and Harden get ten


       2        minutes rebuttal time.


       3             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Well, let me ask


       4        this -- can I direct a question through the


       5        Chair to General Counsel?


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Write it down.  You can hit


       7        them on your rebuttal time.


       8             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Public comment.  Do


      10        we have cards?


      11             MS. ALLEN:  (Tenders speakers' cards.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, as I call you up,


      13        you'll each get a minute to speak.  Please try


      14        not to be repetitive.


      15             Now, I'm not going to be a tyrant and cut


      16        you off right at a minute, but you'll see the


      17        clock in front of you.  You know when you're


      18        running over.


      19             We understand this is very emotional.  We


      20        understand a lot of it -- this is the first time


      21        you've ever come to this kind of process and


      22        spoke, so relax, take your time.  If you go


      23        over, just please don't be duplicative and don't


      24        be repetitive, but we're here to hear you.


      25             Estelle Vickery, followed by Robin





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Robinson.


       2             And as I call your name, just come up


       3        forward.


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Estelle had to leave.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let the record show


       6        that Estelle is not here.


       7             MR. ELSON:  I've got her written comments


       8        if you --


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      10             MR. ELSON:  (Tenders document.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Robin Robinson, followed by


      12        Carol Hinckley -- Carolyn Hinckley, sorry.


      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am.


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Robin


      16        Robinson.  I live at 1573 Marco Place.


      17             I support the redevelopment of this


      18        blighted piece of property, but not without


      19        knowing what is being proposed.  The internal


      20        inconsistencies in the description in this PUD


      21        application have caused massive confusion to the


      22        members of our community that are going to be


      23        affected by it.


      24             I was raised out West, and we pride


      25        ourselves on straight talk out there.  We have a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        saying that says, "Say what you mean and mean


       2        what you say."  I wish, sincerely, that that


       3        applied to this application.


       4             I have heard the developer's words.  I've


       5        seen his pretty pictures and his site plan, and


       6        they don't match, and this is of great concern


       7        to me.


       8             For example, is this residential use only


       9        multifamily or can it be single-family as well?


      10        The written description says one thing in one


      11        place and another thing in another.  The site


      12        plan depicts only multifamily.


      13             The traffic generated by the single-family


      14        is double that for multifamily, yet only


      15        multifamily was evaluated by the staff.


      16             The appropriate lot coverage, setbacks, and


      17        parking also differ greatly between the two


      18        uses.


      19             The written description says the


      20        residential development will be in accordance


      21        with the RHD-B zoning category.  And the staff


      22        report, in discussion, repeats that statement.


      23             The minimum lot requirements, maximum lot


      24        coverage, minimum yard requirements, and


      25        permissible uses stated in the written





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        description are all inconsistent with RHD-B.


       2             Absent a condition resolving these and


       3        other inconsistencies between the written


       4        description and the site plan, the rezoning is


       5        vague, misleading, and much of the analyses of


       6        the application is unsupported.


       7             If the written description were to override


       8        RHD-B requirements in the site plan, this


       9        rezoning would fall as inconsistent with the


      10        comprehensive plan, both internally and


      11        externally.


      12             The staff finding of consistency with the


      13        comprehensive plan is expressly based on RHD


      14        compliance and the depiction in the site plan.


      15        Therefore, I support the inclusion of a


      16        condition suggested by San Marco Preservation


      17        Society that the site plan must be deemed to


      18        control over the written description.


      19             I also support the other conditions which


      20        have been requested by the San Marco


      21        Preservation Society.


      22             Based on what I've heard tonight, I believe


      23        this PUD violates Florida law, Jacksonville


      24        ordinances, and the 2010 Comprehensive Plan.


      25             Unless you adopt the conditions recommended





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        by the San Marco Preservation Society, I believe


       2        that this application must be denied.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       4             Carolyn, followed by Rob -- it looks like


       5        Smith or Sluth.


       6             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am.


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Carolyn Hinckley, 1545


       9        Marco Place.


      10             MR. HARDEN:  Excuse me.  Before you start,


      11        ma'am.


      12             Mr. Chairman.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, sir.


      14             MR. HARDEN:  The San Marco Preservation


      15        Society is represented by Mr. Franklin.  You


      16        gave him additional time.  We raised this at the


      17        agenda meeting.  This is the -- they're coming


      18        up and repeating the San Marco conditions.  It's


      19        not -- that's not the process.  This is for


      20        unrepresented people.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, are you part of the


      22        San Marco Preservation?


      23             MS. HINCKLEY:  I am, but I'm speaking as a


      24        resident.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  But you've already been





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        represented by an attorney.  This is only for


       2        people that are not already represented by an


       3        attorney.


       4             MS. HINCKLEY:  Okay.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, if there's anything at


       6        the end that you'd like to add to the comments,


       7        ma'am, you will get the opportunity to do that,


       8        but as it is right now, these are only the


       9        people that are not represented by an attorney.


      10             You asked for this special process;


      11        therefore, we're doing it this way.


      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you part of


      14        San Marco Preservation?


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm here representing


      16        myself, so -- but, yes, I am also a member of


      17        San Marco Preservation.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Then we need for you to step


      19        back, and you can add things later on if need


      20        be.


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Alicia [sic] Abernathy.


      23             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)


      24             MR. FRANKLIN:  Mr. Chairman, just for


      25        clarity, I'm representing the board of directors





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        of the San Marco Preservation Society.


       2             Again, there's -- probably 95 percent of


       3        the people that live in San Marco that own homes


       4        are members of the preservation society, but


       5        they're not here today representing the


       6        preservation society.  They're speaking on


       7        behalf of their own issues.


       8             Like I said, I believe the people that we


       9        had, that spoke at the Planning Commission


      10        meeting, I'm actually speaking on behalf of many


      11        of those people who were there at that meeting


      12        representing the board, but here tonight are a


      13        lot of people just representing their own


      14        neighborhood interests who happen to be members


      15        of it, so --


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller, do you have the


      17        letter that they requested to go through this


      18        official process?  Do we have a copy of that


      19        letter?


      20             If I'm not mistaken, the letter says that


      21        you're representing San Marco Preservation


      22        Society, not necessarily the board.


      23             MR. SHAD:  Mr. Chairman.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.  Go ahead.


      25             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Through the Chairman to the committee, I


       2        see where we're going here.  It's going to be


       3        challenging.  You know, there's people here that


       4        have come down to speak.  Are we saying if they


       5        paid their dues this year and they're a member


       6        of the preservation society -- I don't know how


       7        we would quantify who is represented by an


       8        attorney and who's not.


       9             I think we should err on the side -- I know


      10        it's going to take a while, and I hope people


      11        won't be repetitive of what's been said, but I


      12        think we need to err on the side of allowing


      13        people who say they're here tonight not being


      14        represented by the attorneys to speak, unless


      15        they're board members.  And there's board


      16        members out there who voted to hire an attorney,


      17        and I -- no doubt that they are represented, but


      18        if someone paid their dues, I don't know if that


      19        would disqualify them from speaking tonight, so


      20        I'd just put that out there.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  What we were planning on


      22        doing is we were going to go through and have


      23        those people that are not represented by an


      24        attorney, which is somebody that is not a member


      25        of the preservation society, and then when





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        they're done, anything that has not been put on


       2        the record that someone feels like they need to


       3        add, we can call them up, even though they're a


       4        member of the preservation society.  At that


       5        time, we could have them add what they need to


       6        add to the record.


       7             MR. SHAD:  Would they turn in another card,


       8        then?


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  I'll go back through.


      10        I've got them pulled to the side, the people


      11        that are a member of the preservation society.


      12        I will call them up and ask them if there's


      13        anything left they need to add that has not


      14        already been said.


      15             MR. SHAD:  Okay.  That's good.  So you'll


      16        get an opportunity at the end.


      17             Thank you.


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That would be me,


      19        Abernathy.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thanks, Mr. Chairman.


      22             I'll just object for the record, but I


      23        understand.


      24             Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That's Ms. Abernathy.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We have Clarence Frazier.


       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you a member of the


       4        San Marco Preservation Society?


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I am not.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Please go ahead, sir.


       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Clarence


       8        Frazier.  I reside at 2771 Southwood Lane,


       9        Jacksonville, 32207.


      10             Southwood is one of the one-block-long


      11        streets that runs south from River Oaks, between


      12        the railroad tracks and Hendricks Avenue.


      13             I believe that the mixed-use nature of this


      14        project needs to be more conditioned that -- the


      15        way the language appears in the development is


      16        that Phase I could include up to the full extent


      17        of the 30 units per acre without further


      18        conditions of -- of the development, of the


      19        commercial and retail space, except for the


      20        18,000 square feet required in Phase I, and the


      21        issue is the residential density, which would be


      22        appropriate if this never became a transit


      23        development.


      24             The -- there's just no justification for


      25        permitting a high-density residential in this





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        commercial infill.  Density alone won't solve


       2        the urban blight in this location anymore than


       3        it would anywhere else.


       4             The applicant wants flexibility.  We all


       5        want to see the area improved, but we also want


       6        to protect our neighborhood, just as you would


       7        want to maintain and protect your neighborhood,


       8        so I -- I and my neighbors feel that there's --


       9        needs to be more restrictions on density and the


      10        mixture of the uses to have a positive impact


      11        rather than a negative one.  And I do recommend


      12        that you adopt all the conditions, including


      13        that of the Planning Commission, that the --


      14        there be no southern access on Summerall to


      15        River Oaks.


      16             That's all.  Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      18             David Hamm, followed by Brittney Audibert.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Welcome sir.


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thanks.


      22             David Hamm, Jerry Hamm Chevrolet, 3494


      23        Philips Highway.


      24             Pretty familiar with this location having


      25        worked there about 31 years and dad about





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        53 years before we moved about six months ago


       2        and -- just about a half mile -- I guess it


       3        would be south of there, and thank you for the


       4        help that we had in getting that.


       5             And I know in any -- this was a much less


       6        complicated process than what this is, but just


       7        having gone through that, I know there's got to


       8        be some flexibility built in.  And also in our


       9        industry there's a lot of negotiations goes on


      10        and we get a lot of things.


      11             And I have to say, the developer, both


      12        First Star, Mr. Cissel, and Cypress, from the


      13        get-go have been nothing but gentlemen, have


      14        done everything they said they would do.  They


      15        were about the third developer that we worked


      16        with on this project and met with City Council


      17        way back earlier just to see what may -- what


      18        might be able to be done as we were trying to


      19        market the property.


      20             We wanted to develop our current property


      21        and stay there.  We love the neighborhood.  We


      22        didn't want to move to The Avenues or any other,


      23        you know, fancy location.  We love the


      24        neighborhood, wanted to stay.  But as these


      25        developers began to approach us, we wanted to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        see what could be done and have, you know, early


       2        on meetings with some -- a lot of you guys'


       3        predecessors.


       4             But we just want to tell you we support


       5        it.  The developers have done everything they


       6        said they would do in negotiating with us over


       7        about an 18-month, two-year period, and we think


       8        it will be an improvement for our neighborhood


       9        and appreciate your favorable consideration.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      11             Brittney.  Come on down, ma'am.  Followed


      12        by Douglas Gollnick, I think.


      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Brittney Audibert, 2779


      15        Southwood Lane.


      16             This is Cadence Audibert.  This is my


      17        visual aid.  I brought a picture last time, and


      18        now I'm bringing her this time.


      19             I just want to be pretty quick and blunt.


      20        I don't know all of the statistics and


      21        everything like that, but I know what I go


      22        through every day, so . . .


      23             My husband Craig and I -- my husband Craig


      24        Audibert and I moved from California, where our


      25        neighborhood was filled with great people, but





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it became too busy.  California is fast-paced,


       2        everything like that.  I told him my story about


       3        growing up in this neighborhood, slow, you know,


       4        my family being built there.  We have four


       5        generations.  She's four.  And I just want to


       6        let you know that we love our neighborhood, and


       7        I don't want -- I like how simple it is and how


       8        it isn't busy with traffic.


       9             And since I've been back, it's -- we live


      10        at the very end of Southwood Lane, and we have


      11        turnarounds twice, maybe three times more since


      12        I've been back, and -- I mean, I rode my bike to


      13        the park, FEC Park, all the time.  I walked my


      14        dogs when I was young.  I was able to ride my


      15        bike to Hendricks Avenue.  And I just don't


      16        think that will be possible if this -- this is


      17        going to -- you know, if River Oaks is going to


      18        stay open.


      19             I think that River Oaks should -- I mean, I


      20        keep on hearing, you know, in the past


      21        River Oaks Road has tried to be closed, but, you


      22        know, now it's a new day.  You know, it's a new


      23        time.  And I think that River Oaks Road should


      24        definitely be considered to be closed.


      25             And I just want to let you know that I'm





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        coming here as a concerned parent for the safety


       2        of my child and for my brother and sister also,


       3        who are 18 and living and driving and -- that


       4        area they know.


       5             So that's pretty much it.  Thank you for


       6        your time.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, great visual aid.


       8             MS. AUDIBERT:  Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Douglas, followed by Gordon


      10        Mott.


      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Douglas


      13        Gollnick.  I am a member of the San Marco


      14        Preservation Society.  And so when you are


      15        interested in hearing my remarks, let me know.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


      17             Gordon Mott.


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm also a member of


      19        San Marco.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


      21             Brown Whatley Law.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             Whatley Law, 1558 Alexandria Place South,


      25        Jacksonville.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I'm here to speak to you on my behalf, and


       2        I'd like to say that, as the grandson of one of


       3        the developers of our neighborhood, it is unique


       4        and there's nothing like anything else in this


       5        country, and it certainly is unique to


       6        Jacksonville.  And you guys, I think, have a


       7        responsibility to protect the children and the


       8        elderly that live in the neighborhood,


       9        especially on River Oaks Road.


      10             That said, in evaluating whether a proposed


      11        PUD is externally compatible, you are required


      12        to evaluate whether the PUD will have any


      13        avoidable or undue adverse impact on existing


      14        uses.


      15             I submit that a PUD will have a very


      16        significant adverse impact on the traffic on


      17        River Oaks Road and, as a result, on property


      18        values, preservation of historically-qualified


      19        homes, and the entire surrounding residential


      20        neighborhood.


      21             The language that I've read of the


      22        ordinance is important to put the analysis in


      23        proper perspective.  In rezoning, the question


      24        is not whether the traffic generated by the


      25        requested zoning change will require roadway





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        improvements or the degree to which a specific


       2        change in a site plan will reduce the impact.


       3        The question that must be answered by ordinance


       4        is whether the PUD will have any avoidable or


       5        undue adverse impact.


       6             By your own concurrency plan, table 1,


       7        trip generation, the way I read it and the way I


       8        understand it, it looks like there's between


       9        21,698 and 8,496 trips generated each day by


      10        this PUD build-out.  I'm not sure where the


      11        numbers come from, but these look like real


      12        numbers to me.


      13             Between 6.72 and 10.21 percent of that


      14        traffic is projected to travel River Oaks,


      15        between Philips Highway and Hendricks Avenue.


      16             Assuming most traffic occurs between 6 a.m.


      17        and midnight, that would mean anywhere between


      18        one additional car every two minutes to two


      19        additional cars per minute on this neighborhood


      20        street.


      21             There again, that's math that I think is


      22        reality.


      23             This is clearly a major impact on a


      24        neighborhood, clearly a major impact.


      25             Off-site improvements contemplated by the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        applicant as part of this development will


       2        further exacerbate the problem.  These include


       3        railroad grade crossing improvements, River Oaks


       4        realignment, the right-of-way grants, and new


       5        signalization.


       6             The staff is clearly aware of these


       7        improvements contemplated as part of this


       8        development but failed to mention or analyze the


       9        impact of the adjacent residential street and


      10        neighborhood.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, your time is up.


      12             MR. LAW:  Thank you for your time.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      14             Mr. Clark, do you have a question for --


      15             MR. CLARK:  No.  I have a general


      16        statement.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      18             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      19             I just want to reiterate as we get through


      20        this -- and I waited till I heard from three or


      21        four people.  I understand how adamant everybody


      22        is about River Oaks Road, but the purpose and


      23        the methodology behind this is to stand up and


      24        tell us new evidence and new things that we


      25        haven't already heard.  We clearly understand





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the concern on River Oaks Road, having heard it


       2        from everybody that stood up so far, but we need


       3        to hear new things and other concerns that you


       4        have.  We understand that one.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Clark.


       6             Karen Mattison, followed by Andrew Dickson.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Karen


       9        Mattison.  I live at 2736 Fieldston Lane.


      10             I'm here today to represent River Oaks


      11        Community Club.  That's who I'm representing.


      12             And I won't go into all the statistics


      13        about the traffic information you've heard, but


      14        one of the things that I must remind everyone


      15        here today and the public is that once the


      16        traffic hits this road -- and we're guessing


      17        now.  This is a traffic model utilized by FDOT,


      18        you know, estimating, which is guesstimating, to


      19        me, that this traffic will occur on River Oaks


      20        Road.


      21             What will happen is -- there's another


      22        thing called level of service for roads.  DOT


      23        follows it and the City follows it.  Level of


      24        service is how these roads are graded.  And once


      25        it goes from being one kind of road at a certain





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        level, it then becomes another.


       2             River Oaks Road is a neighborhood road, and


       3        your traffic engineering folks will tell you


       4        that.  And it is further compounded by the fact


       5        that on their on-site review of


       6        traffic-generated trips within the city,


       7        River Oaks Road is not listed in that -- in that


       8        chart.


       9             It is a neighborhood road specifically


      10        designed for the people who live in that area.


      11        There are three dead-end roads.  We have no


      12        other way to go.


      13             What will happen, Mr. Harden, is even


      14        though you have no plans to make that a


      15        four-lane road, you don't have any choice, we


      16        don't have any choice.  When that traffic hits


      17        it and it no longer is functioning at a specific


      18        level of service, it is mandated by law that


      19        that road is then four-laned, and that will


      20        simply destroy our neighborhood.  And I've


      21        seen it happen and try to happen in


      22        Riverside/Avondale.


      23             Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      25             Mr. Dickson, followed by Jay Robinson.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Andrew Dickson.  I


       3        live at 1641 River Oaks Road, directly on the


       4        stretch that we're talking about.


       5             I work with the River Oaks Community Club,


       6        and I just want to second everything


       7        Ms. Mattison said, and also add the fact that I


       8        believe in Jacksonville city code.  It's


       9        expressly said that residential streets should


      10        not be used for cut-through traffic, you know,


      11        contingent upon new development.  So I'd like to


      12        remind you of that.


      13             I enthusiastically support the


      14        redevelopment of Philips Highway and I


      15        enthusiastically support transit-oriented


      16        development.  I just want to express to you how


      17        bewildering it's been as a resident to see all


      18        the contradictions inside the planned unit


      19        development application, the claim of TOD but no


      20        commitment from JTA, JTA's own studies that show


      21        that Emerson would be a more desirable location


      22        for a transit station.  All this leads me to


      23        believe that we're putting the cart before the


      24        horse here with the building of Jackson Square


      25        as a TOD.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             You know, you -- you've heard everything


       2        about the increase in traffic.  I don't know --


       3        I don't really understand the numbers.  I've


       4        been hearing two sets, one from Planning, one


       5        from Mr. Harden.  I do know that any new


       6        development will add traffic to our road,


       7        especially when it's found that our road is the


       8        most convenient shortcut between Philips Highway


       9        and Hendricks Avenue and Hendricks Elementary


      10        and San Marco Square.


      11             So I beg you, really, to respect the


      12        Planning Commission's recommendation to


      13        eliminate access to River Oaks Road from


      14        Summerall Avenue, I encourage you to include the


      15        staff report's conditions as well, and I finally


      16        intrigue you to include the rest of San Marco


      17        Preservation Society's conditions, in essence or


      18        in full, in the PUD application because I


      19        believe it's the only way to assure the


      20        long-term health of River Oaks Road and


      21        Jackson Square as a viable development.


      22             Thank you.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      24             Jay Robinson, followed by --


      25             (Audience member approaches the podium.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Jay Robinson, 1573


       2        Marco Place.


       3             I am a past member of San Marco


       4        Preservation Society, and I have sent in my


       5        check to rejoin, but they haven't cashed my


       6        check yet.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, sir.  Fair


       8        enough.  Fair enough.


       9             MR. ROBINSON:  Thank you.


      10             We'd also strongly support the


      11        redevelopment of the project along Philips


      12        Highway.  However, we believe it should be done


      13        in -- consistent with the 2010 Comprehensive


      14        Plan, which we believe calls for a gradual


      15        transition of use and intensity.  And from --


      16        and it should not have any avoidable or undue


      17        adverse impact on the surrounding usage.


      18             If you will -- and I'm sure you've seen


      19        this already, but if -- on page 16 of your staff


      20        report it shows a picture of the property and it


      21        shows the right-of-way next to the railroad, and


      22        I'm sure you're aware that the houses next to


      23        that right-of-way are single-family homes and


      24        they run about 125 feet deep to Mitchell Road.


      25             Now, these lots are currently single-family





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        homes and they're zoned CO, not CCG-1 or -2 as


       2        described in the application for the total


       3        project.


       4             Now, these lots serve as a zoning


       5        transitional [sic], you know, to -- before you


       6        get to the intense use of the property, which is


       7        appropriate.  As such, the height limit for CO


       8        property is 35 feet.


       9             Now, I think can you increase that to 45


      10        with an administration [sic] deviation, but


      11        they're asking for 75 feet, or they at least


      12        have put 75 feet in their application, and just


      13        5 feet from the property.


      14             Now, our thought is that we should at least


      15        have specifically specified in the application


      16        that the maximum height should be 45 feet.  I


      17        mean, it needs to be spelled out that you can't


      18        go to 75 feet.


      19             Now, you can also -- I don't know if you've


      20        heard this before, but if you've been along that


      21        area when the train goes by, the noise is pretty


      22        incredible.  Now, we live pretty close to


      23        there.  And if you have buildings that are


      24        relatively tall and they're right next to


      25        railroad tracks, the noise reverberation is





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        going to be unbelievable, and it just can't


       2        happen.  If there's going to be anything built


       3        over there, it has to be a transition away from


       4        the edge of the property and it has to be low


       5        rise.


       6             And so, from that standpoint, we recommend


       7        that you just not approve this application.


       8             Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      10             And thank you for talking about something


      11        other than the traffic on River Oaks Road.


      12             Missie Sarra.


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm a member of the


      14        San Marco Preservation Society.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      16             Christine Sasser.


      17             MS. SASSER:  I'm a member.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Carol Garner.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm a member, but they


      21        haven't cashed my check yet either.


      22             I'm actually speaking -- I'm Carol Garner


      23        from 1713 River Oaks Road, and I'm a nurse


      24        practitioner for the Department of Health and


      25        for the JSO, so it's my job to speak about





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        crime, so I won't talk about River Oaks Road.


       2             From the beginning, the descriptions and


       3        the drawings and the presentations to the public


       4        from this developer have been inconsistent.  The


       5        Zone 3 police were under the understanding that


       6        the Jackson Square project was going to be a


       7        high-end condominium complex.  They raised


       8        questions about this because they said Zone 3


       9        already has 40 percent apartments and, according


      10        to their statistics, 3.8 times as many crimes


      11        occur in apartment complexes as other residences


      12        in Jacksonville, yet I had no clue as to how


      13        they might have been misinformed that way.


      14             I also spoke to the president and the


      15        historian from the Pine Forest neighborhood


      16        action group, and they relayed that their


      17        understanding was that this also was going to be


      18        a high-end condominium complex that they were


      19        supportive of, but then they also had a concern


      20        for some brethren of theirs and -- concerning


      21        a -- especially Pastor Brian Campbell of the


      22        Jerusalem Mission Baptist Church, who stated


      23        there was potential danger on St. Augustine Road


      24        regarding his parishioners and children crossing


      25        the street because their parking lot is across





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the street on St. Augustine Road, and that they


       2        also ask that the only in and out -- I mean,


       3        entrance and exit from this complex be on


       4        Philips Highway and not down Summerall and --


       5        which will then lead into St. Augustine Road.


       6             I also brought a handout from a cartoon I


       7        saw Saturday, which is a little -- if you would


       8        hand -- I made enough copies for everyone.


       9             Because it was a little disheartening, I


      10        was extremely in despair -- the first time I


      11        came here, it was my first time in front of the


      12        City Council, then I had a glimmer of hope, and


      13        now thank you for considering closing off River


      14        Oaks Road because of Art Shad, but I was afraid


      15        that this is maybe what we were up against, and


      16        I'll let the cartoon speak to [sic] itself.


      17             Thank you very much for listening to my


      18        presentation.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      20             MS. GARNER:  Thank you.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Philip Elson.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you very much,


      24        Chairman Graham.


      25             Councilman Shad, thank you very much as





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        well for supporting the initiative as it relates


       2        to the traffic on River Oaks Road.


       3             I'm not going to talk about the traffic,


       4        but that's why -- that's one of the reasons I'm


       5        here.


       6             I live on 1608 River Oaks Road.  My wife


       7        and three children, we've lived there for


       8        15 years.  This is our very first house, and


       9        there's -- and I'm 100 percent for the


      10        redevelopment of this site.


      11             I mean, this is what I do for a living.  I


      12        work in brownfields redevelopment.  I worked on


      13        LaVilla 15 years ago.  I am the Chair of the


      14        Enterprise Empowerment Zone for the City of


      15        Jacksonville.  I work with NAIOP.  I've worked


      16        with Lad Daniels trying to make brownfields


      17        redevelopment and projects of this nature work,


      18        so it's very ironic that I'm even here today


      19        kind of speaking on behalf of this project.


      20             We handed out a little brochure, and I'm


      21        just going to -- instead of talking, I'm just


      22        going to take you through this.  I'd like you to


      23        take a look at this because Alison spent a whole


      24        lot of time putting this together, and she


      25        wasn't able to speak, and I am speaking on





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        behalf of the River Oaks Community Club.


       2             If you look at the very first page, you can


       3        get a -- kind of a bird's-eye view of the


       4        development on page 2, and this little area up


       5        to the left-hand corner is our community.


       6        That's River Oaks -- the River Oaks community.


       7        We've been here for over 70 years.  There's


       8        75 homes in this area, about an average of


       9        1,600 square foot in size.


      10             And you can look at some of the


      11        predevelopment, post Jacksonville Square [sic]


      12        development pictures here on River Oaks Road, on


      13        Southwood Lane, on Thornwood Lane, on Fieldston,


      14        beautiful little bungalows.  It's a


      15        working-class neighborhood in San Marco.


      16             So you can -- you know, once we heard about


      17        this -- and I went and met with Mr. Cissel back


      18        in July and started asking of -- what types of


      19        impacts is this going to have on our


      20        neighborhood.  I was basically told none;


      21        there's not going to be any impacts to your


      22        road; I have no plans to do any type of


      23        improvements to it; and, if so, the City of


      24        Jacksonville is going to take care of it.


      25             Another -- if you look at page 9, the big





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        aerial view, this is -- this development is


       2        being done in the context of something that's


       3        much bigger that's getting ready to go on in


       4        this area.  And, again, it's something that's


       5        very important, but what concerned me was this


       6        little -- and I asked Steve about this many


       7        times -- the red line where River Oaks Road --


       8        you can see the blue arrow to it, where it hooks


       9        up, River Oaks, Hendricks Avenue, over the


      10        railroad tracks to Philips Highway, and then


      11        continues on over into Santiago Road.


      12             And I've asked him, well, you don't have


      13        plans?  Why is it on your map?  This looks like


      14        you're going to turn my little neighborhood,


      15        this little connector road that I live on,


      16        into -- a neighborhood road into a connector.


      17             So I've asked that many times, and I


      18        haven't -- I was told that that was the drainage


      19        line by Mr. Cissel.  This is the divide between


      20        FEC Park and River Oaks Road.


      21             Mr. Harden -- the next page, on 10, this is


      22        going to scare the bejeebers out of us and tell


      23        us that this is the -- this is what could be


      24        here with the current zoning.


      25             Build it, build an office park, see if





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that's something that's going to work in this


       2        area.  We're literally all for that.


       3             And it really is the residential.  Nine


       4        hundred units --


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir.


       6             MR. ELSON:  -- of residential in this


       7        neighborhood is really what is scaring


       8        everybody.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Your time is up.


      10             MR. ELSON:  All right.  Well, I really hope


      11        that you spend a little bit of time with this.


      12             Look in the back of this document --


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir.


      14             MR. ELSON:  -- look at the pictures, and I


      15        think you'll get a good feel for what we're


      16        concerned about and what we're worried about


      17        losing.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      19             Guy Beard.


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  San Marco.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      22             Wendy LaPrade.


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  San Marco Preservation.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      25             Tim Franklin, I can't believe you filled





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        out a card.


       2             Shane Sheffield.


       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.


       5             My name is Shane Sheffield.  I'm -- I live


       6        at 1534 Marco Place.


       7             You know, I have a -- kids in school, River


       8        Oaks -- I mean, at Hendricks Avenue Elementary


       9        School.  I went to the ACE meeting, which is the


      10        school study on overcrowding or undercrowding of


      11        schools and trying to figure out the financial


      12        viability of how we fund our schools.


      13             This does not -- has not taken into account


      14        the concurrency.  I'm not an expert on this, but


      15        all I know is that -- that no impact of the


      16        schools is being taken into account with this


      17        application.


      18             And now I'm going to speak as a taxpayer.


      19        I just want to be clear, this is not a


      20        transportation-oriented development, so it's a


      21        joke to keep referring to it as that.  It is


      22        not.  There is no one here from JTA to say that


      23        they support it or they're in favor of it.  And


      24        our history in our community of mass transit is


      25        a -- is really kind of funny.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I was doing a little bit of research last


       2        night.  And, you know, the Skyway was built with


       3        $200 million.  I thought it was like


       4        $20 million.  But $200 million.  At -- at


       5        current ridership of 1,700 people a week and


       6        funding it for -- at $3-and-a-half million a


       7        year, it generates $500,000 a year in revenue.


       8        I think I figured out by the year of 2385 it


       9        might actually pay for itself.


      10             You know, I am not in favor of


      11        transportation-oriented developments because I


      12        think it's -- this is Jacksonville, Florida.


      13        People are not -- people own cars.  They're not


      14        going to ride mass transit.  I mean, the Skyway


      15        is the ultimate bridge to nowhere.


      16             And, you know, let's just be clear, this is


      17        not a transportation-oriented development, so I


      18        don't know why we're throwing hard code that's


      19        been planned.  We're just throwing the planning


      20        away, and -- and I just -- as a taxpayer and a


      21        person who loves this city, I would hate to see


      22        us just trash our code and our planning for


      23        something that is not what it's being called.


      24             Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             George Foote.


       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  San Marco Preservation.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       4             George Jaghab.


       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry, sir, if I butchered


       7        your name.


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's all right.


       9             My name is George Jaghab.  I live at 10859


      10        Scott Mill Road, and I'm a business owner on


      11        2953 Philips Highway.


      12             I am very, very symp- -- well, first, let


      13        me just -- I mean, honestly say I'm very


      14        supportive of this project, but I am also very


      15        concerned and sympathetic for the concerns of


      16        the members and residents -- members of the


      17        San Marco Preservation Society and residents of


      18        the San Marco area.


      19             I will tell you from a business owner's


      20        perspective, the crime that goes on during the


      21        day just really is very taxing on many of the


      22        business owners.  I could -- I have even sensed


      23        more crime to the area ever since my good


      24        neighbor David Hamm, Jerry Hamm Chevrolet moved


      25        up the road because there's no activity in the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        area.  All you're left with is abandoned


       2        buildings and businesses and abandoned


       3        storefronts.  Drug use is open, prostitution is


       4        open, so any vibrant improvement to the area is


       5        very much welcomed.


       6             I can tell you other business owners in the


       7        area are enthusiastic about it.  I hope, with


       8        your collective wisdom, you can make business


       9        owners happy and meet the concerns of residents


      10        of San Marco.


      11             Thank you.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      13             Bill Argus.


      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I have a visual that I


      16        want to put, I think, on the --


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  We can do that for


      18        you.


      19             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Bill Argus.  I


      20        live at 2750 Thornwood Lane.


      21             I'm just off of River Oaks, and I'm


      22        concerned about the density that the PUD has at


      23        this time.


      24             I wanted to share with you, just for the


      25        record, that there are some residential homes





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that abut the property, and that's what I'm --


       2        I'm trying to show here.


       3             The -- visual aid number 1, it's a -- it's


       4        at 1830 John Street, and it backs up to the


       5        developer's property.  There's two shots of


       6        that.


       7             The next sheet.  These are just, you know,


       8        regular, middle-class homes.


       9             Number 2 is a house along the boundary


      10        line, and you can see on the first sheet where


      11        they're numbered, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.


      12             Number 3 is another nice, middle-class


      13        home, and it has a side yard along the


      14        boundary.  Number 4, it has a side yard along


      15        the boundary.  And 5 is just nearby number 4.


      16             And the point I'm trying to make is, right


      17        now, with the -- with the setbacks that are in


      18        place, I think you're going to destroy some of


      19        the character that I love about San Marco.


      20             San Marco houses are relatively spaced


      21        apart, uncharacteristically of the new


      22        developments around the country, and there's a


      23        lot of landscape.  It's a friendly


      24        neighborhood.  It's a neighborhood that I have


      25        no problem supporting development, albeit it's





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        across the railroad tracks.  I understand that


       2        psychological difference, but I'd love to be


       3        able to -- to bridge the gap there, but I think


       4        something that is a little bit more generous in


       5        the landscape and conducive to the park area and


       6        the historical flavor of San Marco would


       7        probably be a lot more successful and beneficial


       8        to San Marco.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      10             All right.  That's the last card that I


      11        have.  I'm going to go back through the people


      12        that were represented.


      13             Now, you guys -- put in mind that you guys


      14        asked for this to be a quasi-judicial hearing


      15        and to be represented by an attorney or


      16        everybody would have just been given three


      17        minutes to speak as normal.


      18             Now, I didn't cut anybody off prior to


      19        three minutes.  I let everybody speak.  I didn't


      20        cut anybody off at one minute, but I let


      21        everybody speak through the end.


      22             If there's anything that you want to add


      23        that you haven't heard that was said thus far,


      24        come forward.  If you felt like everything has


      25        already been said, then we'll continue from





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        there.


       2             Rob Smith.


       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm okay.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


       5             Carolyn Hinckley.


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm all right.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


       8             Alicia [sic] Abernathy, followed by Douglas


       9        Gollnick.


      10             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Alison Abernathy, and I


      12        live at 2744 Southwood Lane.


      13             And I don't want to take a lot of your


      14        time, but I would like to point -- on page


      15        number 25 in the handout that we gave you that


      16        says "the other side of the Jackson Square


      17        development," we've got a couple of, I think,


      18        very important quotes that came out of the


      19        Planning Commission meeting about ten days ago.


      20             Eddie Johnson, the chairman of the Planning


      21        Commission, said quote, No access on River Oaks


      22        or Summerall.  That way we know we're all


      23        covered and we understand what our intent is,


      24        and if anybody goes back into the record of what


      25        we're trying to do here, they understand the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        intent is we don't want any cars leaving this


       2        site to the south at all, period, end of story.


       3             That quote is followed by one from


       4        Mr. Harden, where he said, quote, We're going to


       5        accept whatever solution you-all propose.


       6             He said that to the Planning Commission,


       7        and we hope that he abides by it.


       8             Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      10             Douglas.


      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Douglas


      13        Gollnick.  I live at 1728 Brookwood Road.


      14             I'm here to represent the residents of


      15        Brookwood, Lorimier, and Dunsford Roads, which


      16        comprise approximately 150 families.


      17             We'd like to register a concern about


      18        increased traffic on our residential roads.


      19        Today Lorimier, Brookwood, and Dunsford Roads


      20        are used as -- pardon me -- are used as


      21        cut-throughs for people who want to drive


      22        between Philips Highway and Hendricks and


      23        San Jose Boulevard.


      24             Adding 900 new families and their cars to


      25        the area would create a considerable danger to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        traffic -- or to pets, children, and pedestrians


       2        in our neighborhood streets.


       3             Unlike River Oaks, we do not have sidewalks


       4        to separate us from the cars that drive


       5        sometimes at excessive speeds through our


       6        neighborhood.


       7             We request that traffic studies be


       8        conducted in the area, also extend to Lorimier,


       9        Brookwood, and Dunsford Roads.


      10             We understand that we will experience some


      11        increase in traffic; however, limiting the


      12        residential component of this development to a


      13        significantly smaller number of units would help


      14        us to maintain a safe and healthy environment


      15        for our families, and the potential closure of


      16        River Oaks Road would only amplify the amount of


      17        traffic that's going to be cutting through our


      18        neighborhood streets.


      19             We love our homes, and we would think of


      20        living nowhere else in Jacksonville.  We embrace


      21        improvement along this stretch of Philips


      22        Highway that has gone too long without


      23        attention.  We want to be sure that -- the right


      24        type of improvement that benefits us all, both


      25        in the new and existing residences.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             There's no reason to damage -- there's no


       2        reason to cause damage to a well-established


       3        community for the sake of installing a new one.


       4        Surely a solution that is beneficial can be


       5        achieved for all of us.


       6             Thank you.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


       8             Gordon Mott.


       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Gordon Mott, 1567


      11        Alexandria Place North, 32207.


      12             Very briefly, and I'll make this very brief


      13        because no one's mentioned the issue of parking


      14        and variance from -- from code that's being


      15        requested.


      16             The project is requesting that the -- that


      17        they be granted a reduction of -- to one-half of


      18        the requirements under residential and one-half


      19        of the requirements under commercial, and I


      20        would point out specifically that the


      21        Development Services Division of the Planning


      22        Department has specifically recommended that


      23        this not be granted.  I believe that's included


      24        in the material that you have before you, so I


      25        would only ask that the City codes be respected





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        with respect to parking in this project.


       2             Thank you.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


       4             Missie Sarra.


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm on the board, so I'm


       6        represented.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, ma'am.


       8             Christine Sasser.


       9             (Ms. Sasser approaches the podium.)


      10             MS. SASSER:  Good evening.


      11             My name is Christine Sasser.  I live at 951


      12        Saratoga Drive.


      13             And this is a public hearing, and I am here


      14        as part of the public.  My husband Doug and I


      15        are going to be represented by these comments.


      16        We do not support -- first of all, we support


      17        revitalization on Philips Highway, but we want


      18        it to be done according to code.


      19             And I just wanted to remind everyone -- a


      20        lot of what's been said I support, but just


      21        remember Part 14 of the zoning code was amended


      22        by the City Council in 2007, and that created a


      23        TOD zoning category.


      24             Now, the PUD -- as, you know, everyone has


      25        said, this is not a TOD.  However, the Planning





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Department staff report says, and I quote, The


       2        Jackson Square project is a model


       3        transit-oriented development.


       4             And, you know, Mr. Harden says that the


       5        Planning Department has clearly vetted this


       6        issue.  Well, if that's so, the PUD -- I mean,


       7        how can they explain, then, that the PUD has


       8        granted reductions in parking, increased


       9        density, and reductions in landscaping, which


      10        are clearly given to TODs.  And I just want to


      11        remind you of that and to please follow the


      12        zoning code.


      13             This is not a TOD.  The JTA memo in your


      14        paperwork clearly states that their only


      15        commitment is for a bus stop and a bus pull-off


      16        lane.  JTA has no plans as of right now to put a


      17        transit-oriented -- a transit station -- rapid


      18        transit station at this location, so please be


      19        mindful of that.


      20             And if using this TOD concept -- it's not a


      21        justification for waivers or for uses or


      22        intensities which violate the US-1 Corridor


      23        Study, the requirements of the comp plan, and


      24        recommendations from the Development Services


      25        Division.  So please follow your own zoning code





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and please consider these recommendations from


       2        San Marco.


       3             Thank you.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       5             Guy Beard.


       6             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.


       8             My name is Guy Beard.  I live at 2763


       9        Southwood Lane.


      10             You know, this whole project is basically


      11        been on a "this is going to work" basis.  You


      12        know, we're going to go in there and we're going


      13        to fill these things out.  We're going to fill


      14        this commercial space up.  I haven't heard what


      15        if, what if they don't fill it up, what if the


      16        commercial property isn't filled up, how long


      17        will it be vacant?


      18             There's a lot of commercial property on


      19        Philips Highway.  There's a lot of residential


      20        places you can go rent around here.  That's the


      21        big question.  What if this doesn't happen?  We


      22        give them the zoning that they need and they


      23        decide not to build and to sell, who's the


      24        second owner of this property going to be?


      25        That's the contention that I look at, is, what





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        if this really doesn't work?


       2             You know, the big saying is, build it and


       3        they will come.  Well, in today's world, that's


       4        not necessarily true.  So that's -- that's my


       5        different view.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.  I


       7        appreciate it.


       8             Wendy LaPrade.


       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let the record show she said


      11        she's fine.


      12             George Foote.


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let the record indicate he's


      15        okay.


      16             And Barbara Pickett, Puckett.


      17             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry, ma'am.  I can't see


      19        if that's an "I" or a "U."


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      21             My name is Barbara Puckett.  I live at


      22        947 Sorrento Road.


      23             And I am the director emeritus of San Marco


      24        Preservation.  Do I qualify?


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're fine.  Go ahead.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. PUCKETT:  I would like to invite each


       2        of you to our neighborhood.  I have a feeling


       3        that you're not familiar with the area in which


       4        you've been asked to make a decision.  It's a


       5        neighborhood that was built before World War II


       6        broke out.  My family has lived in the


       7        neighborhood since 1938, and I have lived there


       8        most of the time myself.


       9             The neighborhood was designed with narrow


      10        streets, lots 60 feet by 125, lovely brick


      11        homes, frame homes, some of them are 1,200


      12        square feet up to 2,5-, 3,000 square feet.


      13        They're all maintained.  And everyone admires


      14        San Marco for what we have been able to do, with


      15        the help of the City, I might add.


      16             We have -- people keep their neighborhoods


      17        up, their homes, they keep the trash off the


      18        street.  If they see something that's going


      19        wrong, amidst with a neighbor, they help.  We


      20        have just helped with a neighbor who died and


      21        put on an event after the funeral, and those are


      22        neighbors just getting together to aid one


      23        another.


      24             I really don't think you understand what


      25        San Marco is.  San Marco is a small





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        neighborhood.  The City bus actually turned at


       2        River Oaks Road in 1936.  That's the city limit


       3        of the city of Jacksonville.


       4             So please come visit our neighborhood


       5        before you let too much activity and traffic


       6        destroy the small streets and small homes.


       7             Thank you.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you going to speak


      11        on this project?


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Nods head.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  You might as well come on


      14        up.


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  How you doing?


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Name and address for the


      17        record, please.


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, sir.


      19             My name is Hanif Shakir.  My address is


      20        7426 Gainesville Avenue.


      21             I represent the people, but good evening,


      22        everybody.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      24             MR. SHAKIR:  Yeah, I didn't know I was


      25        coming down here.  I just -- but anyway, the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        biggest problem I have is just getting the


       2        people together right now.  You know, when the


       3        world is -- the world order is confused, so I'm


       4        just in that confusion, but I'm not confused.


       5             So our resident [sic].  I pray for us.


       6        Safety.  But just -- just with (inaudible) for


       7        me.


       8             I do everything right.  I support the


       9        people, but when I tell y'all, I like to go to


      10        Jaguar games, I like to go -- support the


      11        children, I like to have money to spend with


      12        them sometimes.  I like a lot of money because I


      13        do a lot of things, so it's my -- and I'm going


      14        to make this short.  I don't want to speak


      15        too -- I'm tired of speaking.  I want you to see


      16        my action, how I live.


      17             But when I go out there with a little


      18        money, try to get a ticket -- you know, when the


      19        sheriff called me -- what?  Yeah, I'll walk with


      20        you.  Let's go clean the street up.  State


      21        attorney, Angela, Jay Plotkin, Mr. Shorstein, I


      22        know people.  I know y'all.  But when I need


      23        help for a -- $10 or something for a ticket and


      24        I can't get it, I'm the god, I'm the Jesus of


      25        the world.  I can love every race, but I'm going





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to make it because I'm very sincere about my


       2        education, my self-esteem.  I'm going to be


       3        healthy, and I know God, and I know what he told


       4        me, to keep being vigorous, energetic.


       5             So I say this:  I'm struggling, but who


       6        ain't struggling?  So I be wanting to go to the


       7        game, but then you ain't -- you know my address,


       8        I just told you, but you don't come check on


       9        me.  But I check on you, your children.  I pray


      10        for all y'all, all these communities in


      11        Jacksonville.


      12             I'm from Duval, but why you let a man of


      13        God die?  But I ain't going to die because I'm


      14        vigorous.  I'm -- I got so many words, but this


      15        is the key:  I want to live and not suffer like


      16        the prophets of old.  I'm going to live.  I'm


      17        going to still do what I have to do.  I'm just


      18        pissed off, but I'm all right.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.  And thank


      20        you for not talking about the traffic on


      21        River Oaks Road.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am.


      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.  Hi.


      25             My name is Elizabeth Duff.  I reside at





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        2736 Southwood Lane, which is one of the


       2        dead-end streets which runs into River Oaks


       3        Road.


       4             I'm not going to say a lot about traffic,


       5        but I just wanted -- this -- these are just two


       6        things that nobody mentioned that will affect


       7        implications of traffic.


       8             We already deal with a lot of congestion at


       9        certain times of the day because of the light on


      10        River Oaks and Hendricks.  It's like the


      11        shortest light of the southeast of the United


      12        States.  I mean, you really have, like, maybe


      13        three seconds to get through a green light


      14        there.  Sometimes the cars can be backed up


      15        several blocks there in the afternoon.


      16             The other thing is the train.  I have sat


      17        at the train, waiting for a train to go by, and


      18        then having another train show up to come by


      19        after the other one just finished, sometimes for


      20        20 minutes, and that causes a lot of traffic to


      21        back up too.


      22             So I just -- when you're thinking about the


      23        traffic, just think about the congestion that we


      24        already deal with and how it's going to be


      25        larger if we should deal with a lot more





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        traffic.


       2             Thank you.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       4             Now, I don't have any more cards.  Is there


       5        anybody else that would like to speak or felt


       6        like there's something they need to add to the


       7        record?


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, come on up.


      10             Did you fill out a card?


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I had one before.  Does


      12        that count?


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did you -- you already


      14        spoke?


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Carol Garner, but I


      16        just wanted to present to the City Council a


      17        letter from my neighbor, who couldn't be here,


      18        so that's --


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That's fine, ma'am.


      20        We'll add that to the record.


      21             MS. GARNER:  Thank you.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      23             Is there anybody else?


      24             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, I'm going to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        close the public hearing.


       2             Diane, I know your fingers are probably


       3        getting a little sore right now.  Can you hold


       4        on?  We have about ten minutes -- I'm sorry,


       5        twenty minutes of rebuttal.  Hopefully, they're


       6        not going to use that much time, but -- if you


       7        can hold on through that so we can just go ahead


       8        and be done with the public hearing.


       9             THE REPORTER:  Okay.  That's fine.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  First is Mr. Franklin,


      11        followed by Mr. Harden.


      12             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)


      13             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thanks, Mr. Chairman.


      14             I, based on these comments, don't have a


      15        whole lot to rebut, if you will.


      16             I think that what I would say about the


      17        comments is it really shows, number one, a


      18        diversity that we have in the neighborhood


      19        there.  It really shows the brain power that we


      20        have in San Marco, some of the probably best


      21        professional and service and -- and all


      22        different fields live in this neighborhood.


      23             The San Marco Preservation Society and its


      24        members are not one of your -- well, I'll just


      25        say they're probably the best -- one of the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        best, if not the best neighborhood action groups


       2        out there.  They're very involved, they've


       3        always been in the forefront of making sure


       4        their neighborhood has zoning controls and


       5        protections, those sort of the things.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you're not


       7        rebutting right now.  You'll get five minutes to


       8        conclude, if you'd like.


       9             Do you have any rebuttal?


      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  I was just trying to use


      11        some of -- you caught me.  I'll wait for


      12        rebuttal -- I'll wait for closing.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      14             Mr. Harden.


      15             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


      16             MR. HARDEN:  Thank you.


      17             I want to first comment on the complaint of


      18        lack of information.  In all due respect, I


      19        don't criticize anyone for their positions.


      20             This PUD is like a hundred other planned


      21        unit developments that you've been through.  I


      22        don't think there's a fair understanding of how


      23        detailed the Planning Department requires the


      24        information that you provide before you get in


      25        the door.  And we did that, and that information





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        was provided, and then, on top of that, we have


       2        the set of conditions, on top of that the


       3        conditions required by the San Marco


       4        Preservation -- not to mention the


       5        interrogatories they sent if they wanted


       6        information that we want to give them.


       7             So I think, in fairness, the process has,


       8        in fact, yielded very substantial information.


       9             I'm going to go quickly through some of the




      11             The internal inconsistencies, I just beg to


      12        differ.  The Planning Department has reviewed


      13        the specific issue.  The one that was raised was


      14        single-family versus multifamily.  Single-family


      15        is a listed use in the CCG zoning category.


      16        It's listed as a use in the PUD.  There is no


      17        location on here there's [sic] going to be a


      18        single-family development.


      19             Potentially, you would put a row of houses


      20        along St. Johns Avenue -- along John Street or


      21        potentially along Mitchell, and those would be


      22        single-family and that use.  And that's the only


      23        reason it's in there.  But every single


      24        commercial general PUD that's a mixed use


      25        includes that language in there, so it's not





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        something that's intended to concern somebody.


       2             The density that Mr. Frazier raised --


       3        sixty units per acre is allowable under the CGC


       4        zoning category.  The Planning Department is


       5        limiting us until there's some activity for the


       6        mass transit activity.  There's no requirement


       7        that we do a TOD here, but they required us to


       8        do mass transit activity.


       9             Don't call it a TOD if you don't want to.


      10        Call it what it is.  It's a facility to start


      11        mass transit activity on Philips Highway, and


      12        there's very detailed requirements for that.


      13             Sixty units an acre is what we're allowed


      14        under the zoning code.  They've limited us to 30


      15        until we get up with the transportation


      16        activity, and that was a fair request and we


      17        agreed to it, but don't think that that's not an


      18        allowable use.


      19             A lady mentioned level of service capacity


      20        on River Oaks Road.  As I told you, that's


      21        7 percent currently.


      22             A gentleman said he has a problem because


      23        of the lack of gradual transition.  Right now


      24        it's commercial general right up to the houses


      25        on both sides of the property and there's one





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        line along the railroad track.  We're changing


       2        that.  We're actually going to make it into a


       3        gradual transition by making it residential.  So


       4        remember, now it's commercial activity up there


       5        and we're the one actually putting that into


       6        effect.


       7             I'm not sure -- the lady that talked about


       8        crime in the neighborhood, I wish she had a fair


       9        understanding of what's happening now on Philips


      10        Highway.  Our goal is to help clean that up.


      11        Our goal is to bring in -- and they are high-end


      12        units, but that's not the issue.  I don't want


      13        to suggest that people who live in less


      14        expensive houses commit more crime, but we're


      15        agreeing to all the Jacksonville Journey


      16        activity on that, and so our goal is to not


      17        precipitate that.


      18             Someone mentioned -- a gentleman mentioned


      19        the St. Johns [sic] houses and no buffer.  One


      20        of the conditions that we agreed to last Friday


      21        was putting in a buffer along that location to


      22        offset the single-family homes at that location,


      23        so we're -- we're agreeable to that.


      24             Likewise, the parking reduction.  They


      25        asked for an increase in parking.  The Planning





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Department had given us something less.  We


       2        raised that in -- consistent with that


       3        discussion.


       4             So almost all of these issues were raised


       5        and we responded in the conditions that the --


       6        Councilman Shad reduced to writing.


       7             The Dunsford, Brookwood, Lorimier activity,


       8        those are streets that are parallel, heading


       9        south from River Oaks Road.  If you shut off


      10        River Oaks Road, that's where the traffic is


      11        going to go.  So I'm not sure what the


      12        gentleman's comment was other than maybe -- you


      13        know, maybe he's on our position that -- that we


      14        want to increase the connectivity, so -- just so


      15        you know where those are, those aren't being


      16        proposed to shut off.  They're off St. Augustine


      17        Road.


      18             The last thing I want to talk about is the


      19        what if, what if -- what if it doesn't happen.