1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, October 7,
7 2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 ART GRAHAM, Chair.
STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.
14 RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.
JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.
15 RAY HOLT, Committee Member.
JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
16 DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
17
ALSO PRESENT:
18
ART SHAD, City Council Member.
19 WARREN JONES, City Council Member.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
20 SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
21 FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
22 MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
23
- - -
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 October 7, 2008 5:00 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, everyone.
5 This is the Land Use and Zoning Committee
6 meeting. Let the record show it's about
7 5 o'clock on Tuesday, October the 7th.
8 And if we can start over here on our right,
9 let's introduce ourselves.
10 MR. CROFTS: My name is John Crofts,
11 Planning and Development Department.
12 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
13 Development.
14 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
15 Development.
16 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
17 Development.
18 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, Council
19 District 4.
20 MR. HOLT: Ray Holt, District 11.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Art Graham, District 13.
22 MR. JOOST: Stephen Joost, Group 3
23 at-large.
24 MR. CLARK: Richard Clark, District 3.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, we have a pretty full
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 agenda today, so I'll let those of you in the
2 audience know what we're going to do.
3 First, we're going to go through the
4 agenda, and I'm going to tell you everything
5 that's going to be deferred so if you're here
6 for one of those items to be deferred, you don't
7 have to sit here for three hours before we get
8 to your bill and you realize we're not taking
9 any action on it.
10 And then after that, we're going to start
11 with a special request. And we don't have any
12 visiting council members here yet, so we'll
13 start at the beginning of the agenda and work
14 our way through until we get a special request.
15 We will be taking a break probably around
16 the 7 o'clock hour. Our court reporter needs to
17 rest her little fingers after about two hours,
18 so we'll take a break and we'll probably
19 actually break for dinner. We'll take a break
20 about 7:00, so 7:30, and then we'll continue the
21 meeting after that.
22 That all being said, top of page 2,
23 2005-1228 is deferred. 2006-24 is deferred.
24 2006-220 is deferred.
25 Top of page 3. 2006-658 is deferred.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 2007-581 is deferred. 2007-1086 is deferred.
2 Top of page 4. 2008-236 is deferred.
3 2008-314 is deferred.
4 Top of page 5. 2008-414 is deferred.
5 Page 6. -416 is deferred and -418 is
6 deferred.
7 We skip over to page 8, top of the page.
8 2008-541 is deferred. -542 is deferred. At the
9 bottom of the page, -546 is deferred.
10 Bottom of page 9. 2008-549 is deferred.
11 Top of page 10. -550 is deferred. -552 is
12 deferred.
13 Then we continue on to -- and continuing on
14 until the bottom of page 22, 2008-799 is
15 deferred. -800 is deferred. -801 is deferred.
16 -802 is deferred. -803 is deferred. -833 is
17 second and rereferred. -840, -841, and -842 are
18 all second and rereferred.
19 That all being said, let's go back to the
20 agenda and start doing some work.
21 (Dr. Gaffney enters the proceedings.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 4. 2007-1350.
23 We'll open the public hearing.
24 We don't have any speakers, so we'll
25 continue that public hearing till November the
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 3rd.
2 That's one of the things I meant to say.
3 For those of you that normally come to these
4 meetings, our first meeting in November is
5 normally November 4th, but since that's Election
6 Day and a lot of the councilmembers have other
7 commitments, we have moved that day forward to
8 November 3rd. So make sure you have that on
9 your calendar. We'll meet November 3rd at
10 5 o'clock. I just want for everybody to know
11 that so there's no confusion. We're actually
12 meeting on that Monday.
13 Okay. Top of page 5, committee members,
14 2008-413. We have a substitute.
15 MR. CLARK: Move the sub.
16 MR. JOOST: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub's been moved and
18 seconded.
19 Any discussion on the sub?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
22 say aye.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
2 the sub.
3 MR. CLARK: Move to rerefer as substituted.
4 MR. JOOST: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
6 to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.
7 Any discussion on the rereferral?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
10 ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
15 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
19 the vote.
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
22 rereferred 2008-413.
23 (Mr. Webb enters the proceedings.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Bottom of the page.
25 2008-415. There's a substitute.
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1 MR. CLARK: Move the sub.
2 MR. HOLT: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub's been moved and
4 seconded.
5 Any discussion on the substitute?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
8 say aye.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 approved the substitute.
14 MR. HOLT: Move to rerefer as substituted.
15 MR. CLARK: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
17 to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.
18 Any discussion on the rereferral?
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
21 ballot.
22 (Committee ballot opened.)
23 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
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Tropia,
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1 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 rereferred -415 as substituted.
10 (Mr. Shad enters the proceedings.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Middle of page 6. -417. We
12 have a substitute.
13 MR. CLARK: Move the sub.
14 MR. HOLT: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub's been moved and
16 seconded.
17 Any discussion on the sub?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 I'm sorry. All in favor of the sub signify
22 by saying aye.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
2 the substitute.
3 MR. CLARK: Move to rerefer.
4 MR. HOLT: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved to rerefer
6 to LUZ as substituted and seconded.
7 Any discussion on the rereferral?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
10 ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
15 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
18 (Committee ballot closed.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
20 the vote.
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
23 rereferred 2008-417.
24 Top of page 7. We're going to open the
25 public hearing on -419 and -420.
Diane M. Tropia,
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1 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
2 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, Charles Mann, 165
4 Women's
5 This is a center that offers post and
6 prenatal care. It's a benefit to the
7 neighborhood. We've worked through it prior to
8 this, before -- this was one of the items that
9 was rereferred to DCA, and I'll just stand by
10 for questions.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mann.
12 Any other speakers?
13 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other speakers,
15 we're going to close the public hearing on -419
16 and -420.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
18 MR. CLARK: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
20 seconded.
21 Any discussion on the bill?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
24 ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
4 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas [sic], zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 approved -419.
14 -420. We have an amendment.
15 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
16 MR. WEBB: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
18 and seconded.
19 Planning Department, can we hear the
20 amendment, please.
21 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman. The
22 amendment is as follows:
23 Condition number 1, "The developer shall be
24 subject to the original legal description dated
25 January 22nd, 2008."
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Condition number 2, "The developer shall be
2 subject to the original written description
3 dated January 22nd, 2008."
4 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
5 to the original site plan dated January 22nd,
6 2008."
7 Condition number 4, "The developer shall be
8 subject to the review and approval of the
9 Development Services Division, pursuant to their
10 memorandum dated May 16th, 2008, and the
11 Transportation Planning Division memorandum
12 dated June 16th, 2008, or as otherwise approved
13 by the Planning and Development Department."
14 Condition number 5, "A pregnancy counseling
15 center with ancillary medical services
16 subordinate to the primary use shall be
17 permitted. However, the following permitted
18 uses and permissible uses by exception in the
19 CRO zoning district are specifically
20 prohibited: medical clinics, banks,
21 drive-throughs, cosmetology and similar uses,
22 fitness and gymnastic centers, stage theatres,
23 rooming houses, residential treatment centers,
24 group care homes, and emergency shelters."
25 Condition number 6, "The parking lot shall
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 be brought into compliance with Part 12 of the
2 zoning code and a sidewalk shall be provided
3 from
4 Number 7, "No vehicular access shall be
5 permitted from
6 Number 8, "Only nonilluminated signs shall
7 be allowed pursuant to the CRO zoning district
8 criteria found in Part 13 of the zoning code."
9 Number 9 and finally, "The developer shall
10 provide an uncomplementary buffer along the
11 northerly property line per Section 656.1216 of
12 the zoning code."
13 That's it.
14 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, I've been over
15 those conditions with my client and he's in
16 agreement.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mann.
18 We have a motion and a second on the
19 amendment.
20 Any further discussion on the amendment?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
23 say aye.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
3 approved the amendment.
4 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
5 MR. HOLT: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
7 seconded as amended.
8 Any further discussion on the bill?
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
11 ballot.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
16 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
21 the vote.
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
24 approved 2008-420.
25 Let the record show that Councilmember Shad
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 has joined us.
2 MR. MANN: Committee, thank you very much.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 Mr. Shad, I have two other ones so I can
5 close out page 8, if you don't mind.
6 MR. SHAD: We have to wait on Councilmember
7 Jones, I'm sure.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll wait on
9 Councilmember Jones.
10 2008-517. We'll open the public hearing.
11 No speakers. We'll continue that public
12 hearing and take no further action.
13 Page 8. 2008-545.
14 MR. CLARK: Move the sub.
15 MR. HOLT: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub's been moved and
17 seconded.
18 Any discussion on the substitute?
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor say aye.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
25 the substitute.
Diane M.
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1 MR. CLARK: Move to rerefer.
2 MR. HOLT: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
4 to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.
5 Any further discussion on the rereferral?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
8 ballot.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
13 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
18 the vote.
19 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
21 rereferred 2008-545 as substituted.
22 Okay. We'll move on until Mr. Jones
23 comes.
24 Top of page 9. 2008-547 and -548. We'll
25 open both of those public hearings.
Diane M.
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1 We have Dan and Dan. Come on down, Dan.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dan Boswell, 4014 Ranie
4 Road, representing the owners of the property,
5 Traw Engineering.
6 What we have is 9.31 acres going to -- from
7 LDR to light industrial. It currently has heavy
8 industrial to the north, 295 to the west,
10 density residential, and then some industrial
11 and residential to the south.
12 (Mr. Jones enters the proceedings.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Very good.
14 Is that it?
15 MR. BOSWELL: That's it.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: We have no further speakers,
17 so we'll close the public hearing. Just hold
18 on.
19 Let's start with -547. Someone move the
20 bill.
21 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
22 MR. JOOST: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
24 seconded.
25 Any discussion on the bill?
Diane M.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
3 ballot.
4 (Committee ballot opened.)
5 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
8 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
12 (Committee ballot closed.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
14 the vote.
15 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
17 approved -547.
18 -548.
19 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
20 MR. JOOST: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
22 seconded, -548.
23 Any discussion on -548?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
Diane M.
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1 ballot.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
6 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
12 the vote.
13 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
15 approved 2008-548.
16 MR. BOSWELL: Thank you very much.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
18 Actually, you can thank Mr. Jones because
19 we were able to get to your bill.
20 Let the record show that Mr. Warren Jones
21 has joined us.
22 Welcome, sir.
23 MR. JONES: Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: And Dr. Johnny Gaffney.
25 I'm sorry, sir. I thought you were here
Diane M.
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1 earlier. We missed you. Welcome.
2 Middle of page 10, 2008-551. We have a
3 substitute.
4 MR. CLARK: Move the substitute.
5 MR. JOOST: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub's been moved and
7 seconded.
8 Any discussion on the substitute?
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor say aye.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
15 the substitute.
16 MR. CLARK: Moved to rerefer.
17 MR. HOLT: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
19 to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.
20 Any discussion on the rereferral?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
23 ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
9 the vote.
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
12 rereferred 2008-551 as substituted.
13 2008-562. Open the public hearing.
14 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
15 public hearing and take no action.
16 First ten pages are down.
17 Okay. Mr. Jones -- well, I'm sorry,
18 Mr. Shad was here first.
19 Mr. Shad, what on our agenda do you want to
20 take up first?
21 MR. SHAD: -563.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 11. -563.
23 Okay. Mr. Shad, did you say you wanted to
24 make a statement before we got started with the
25 official quasi-judicial process?
Diane M.
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1 MR. SHAD: I did.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
3 MR. SHAD: Thank you, committee members.
4 A couple of items. There had been a -- I
5 wanted to acknowledge, I had received a couple
6 of requests for deferral from some members of
7 the community, and I wanted to just note -- make
8 sure it was clear that I did ask the applicant
9 if they would support a deferral because we had
10 deferred it one time for five weeks, and
11 actually for two cycles, including a fifth week
12 there.
13 I just wanted to go on record, it had been
14 deferred for five weeks and that the applicant
15 strongly -- even -- I tried to insist, but
16 strongly did not want to go forward with a
17 deferral, so that's why we're going to hear it
18 tonight.
19 I also wanted to ask y'all for your -- draw
20 upon all your skills as we go forward with
21 this. It has a lot of moving parts.
22 River Oaks Road, you will hear tonight, is
23 where you're going to hear most of the
24 opposition. It's a -- if you haven't been out
25 there, River
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1 that is very commercial on one end, separated by
2 railroad tracks, and very residential --
3 extremely residential on the other end, and I
4 would ask you to consider that and to protect
5 that neighborhood and that road as you
6 deliberate and look at competing amendments
7 tonight.
8 I'll also note that -- to the community,
9 that the closure of River
10 something that has been talked about a lot. I
11 know it's been attempted in the past, several
12 times, and I, myself, have struggled with how
13 that relates to this zoning.
14 And it really is a separate issue, but I
15 would just say here on the record that as the
16 development of
17 both with this development and other
18 developments, that I think I, more than ever
19 now, will support the closure of that crossing
20 there.
21 And, you know, I am, myself, not the
22 deciding factor in doing that. The railroad,
23 the mayor's office, other council members in
24 that area -- I just want to get that on the
25 record, that with this development on River Oaks
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1 Road, with the unusual nature of it being one of
2 the only cross-throughs between Emerson and
3
4 develop
5 closed, and I just wanted to get that on the
6 record.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Shad.
9 Okay. We're at 2008-563. We've got a
10 formal request to have a formal quasi-judicial
11 hearing, so our process will change a little
12 today to make sure that we comply with that
13 request.
14 That being said, we can start with
15 declaring ex-parte communications. And if
16 you've declared communications the last time on
17 this bill, you do not need to do it again unless
18 you've had further conversations with people
19 since the last time.
20 That all being said, the first one is
21 Mr. Holt.
22 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
23 I declare ex-parte communication with
24 Mr. Ashton Hudson and Lori Boyer on September
25 23rd.
We discussed the
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1 And also with the agent, Paul Harden,
2 yesterday. We discussed some of the issues
3 surrounding it.
4 Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Mr. Clark.
7 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 I would like to declare ex-parte on
9 September 23rd with the agent, Paul Harden.
10 Also, on September 23rd with Christine Sasser,
11 on the 15th with Ashton Hudson and the San Marco
12 Preservation Society, as well as today with
13 Bruce Barcelo.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 Mr. Joost.
16 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 On September 3rd, I had a meeting with the
18 applicant, Paul Harden.
19 On September 10th, I had a phone
20 conversation with Mr. Harden.
21 On September 30th, I had a meeting with
22 Christine Sasser and Philip Elson.
23 On September 30th, I also had a meeting
24 with Steve Cissel, the developer.
25 On October 3rd, I had another phone
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1 conversation with Mr. Harden.
2 On October 3rd, I had a phone conversation
3 with Christine Sasser.
4 And on October 7th, I had a meeting with
5 Tim Franklin in my office, all to discuss
6 various aspects of the project.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Mr. Webb.
9 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 Three weeks ago, I had ex-parte
11 communications with Ashton Hudson and Lori Boyer
12 with regards -- with respect to this
13 application. Moreover, two weeks ago, I had a
14 meeting in my office with Steve Cissel, the
15 developer, to talk about this -- the project.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
18 MR. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 I had ex-parte communications today with
20 Bruce Barcelo and Paul Harden regarding the -- a
21 deferral, a possible deferral.
22 I had an ex-parte communication with
23 Ms. Boyer two weeks ago regarding some
24 additional conditions that she would like to see
25 added to the rezoning.
Diane M.
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1 And I met yesterday with Steve Cissel to
2 discuss access to River
3 conditions that were imposed by the Planning
4 Commission and recommended by the Planning
5 Department.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Dr. Gaffney.
8 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 Yes. I wish to declare ex-parte
10 communication. On 9/23, I had a meeting in my
11 office with Mr. Paul Harden in reference to the
12 project and the zoning area.
13 Also on 9/23, I had -- I met with
14 Ms. Christine Sasser in reference to
15 accessibility to the project that they're
16 contemplating building over there.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
18 Mr. Shad.
19 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
20 Since our last announced ex-parte
21 communications, Wednesday, October 1st, in my
22 office, Christine Sasser, Philip Elson.
23 Friday, October 3rd, the leadership from
24 San Marco Preservation Society, the developer,
25 his agent, the Planning Department and General
Diane M.
Tropia,
28
1 Counsel's Office.
2 Yesterday by phone, Lori Boyer and Matt
3 Carlucci; and today by phone, Bruce Barcelo and
4 Mr. Paul Harden.
5 Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: And I've had ex-parte
7 communications since the last time with
8 Ms. Boyer three weeks ago, and with the
9 applicant last Thursday, and with Ms. Sasser and
10 Bruce Barcelo yesterday.
11 MR. JONES: I forgot one.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
13 MR. JONES: Thank you.
14 I omitted -- yesterday I discussed the
15 deferral with -- ex-parte communication with
16 Matt Carlucci.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
19 Okay. I want to let you know that we will
20 be swearing in the speakers. We will swear in
21 the applicant and his experts, and then we will
22 swear in the other side and their experts. They
23 will each be given 15 minutes to speak, and then
24 after that we will open the public comment, and
25 we will give anybody that's not already
Diane M.
Tropia,
29
1 represented by an attorney, on one side or the
2 other, a minute to speak to get what you need to
3 get out on record.
4 I'll let you know that we have all the
5 information from the Planning Commission meeting
6 last Thursday. So if you've heard some of the
7 things that have already been said, it's really
8 not necessary to be duplicative. But if there's
9 any new information you need to add, please feel
10 free to come up and add that.
11 And then afterwards, we will be giving both
12 sides ten minutes to rebut, and then they'll
13 have closing statements.
14 This all being said, let's start off with
15 the Planning Department to give us the report,
16 tell us where we are.
17 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair, members of
18 Council, application for rezoning R-2008-563
19 seeks approval of a rezoning of the old Jerry
20
21 north of River
22 The subject property is currently zoned
23 CCG-1 and -2, primarily CCG-2. There is some CO
24 along the west parcel -- the west area of the
25 parcel that parallels the railroad line.
Diane M. Tropia,
30
1 The department has reviewed the application
2 for the criteria for the rezoning, in addition
3 to the criteria for a PUD rezoning, and finds
4 that the application is sufficient and finds
5 that it does comply with the criteria and
6 further specifies those goals through the
7 written description dated September 17th and the
8 revised site plan dated September 17th.
9 This item was heard at Planning
10 Commission. Planning Commission voted to
11 approve the application subject to one
12 modification, which is a fairly major
13 modification to the staff recommendation, which
14 recommended that there be no access from the
15 subject property to and from
16 River
17 The rest of the conditions were adopted
18 intact, and I can go over those individually or
19 we can proceed.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's just go ahead and go
21 over those amendments that the Planning
22 Commission passed because there may be something
23 that one side or the other want to challenge or
24 speak about.
25 MR. KELLY: Okay. Condition 1, "The
Diane M.
Tropia,
31
1 development shall be subject to the original
2 legal description dated June 23rd, 2008."
3 Condition 2, "The development shall be
4 subject to the revised written description dated
5 September 17th, 2008."
6 Condition 3, "The development shall be
7 subject to the revised site plan dated September
8 17th, 2008."
9 Condition 4, "The development shall be
10 subject to the review and approval of the
11 Development Services Division, pursuant to the
12 memorandum dated September 8th, 2008, except for
13 comment 3 as attached within the memo; and the
14 FDOT memorandum dated July 22nd, 2008, attached;
15 or as otherwise approved by the FDOT and
16 Planning and Development Department."
17 Condition 5, "At the time of verification
18 of substantial compliance a phasing schedule
19 shall be provided to the Planning and
20 Development Department."
21 Condition 6 -- there's a proposed
22 amendment, and I can either read the new
23 proposed condition or the adopted condition.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's just go ahead and read
25 what was adopted in Planning Commission.
Diane M.
Tropia,
32
1 MR. KELLY: Condition 6 adopted by Planning
2 Commission states, "Prior to any residential
3 development beyond 30 units gross acre, a bus
4 rapid transit station or alternative equivalent
5 JTA commuter transit station facility, including
6 shelter and amenities, shall be completed and
7 operational, subject to the review and approval
8 of the Planning and Development Department."
9 Condition 7, "A roundabout shall contain a
10 fountain feature or a piece of public art."
11 Condition 8, "The applicant shall provide
12 at least one dedicated parking space per
13 multifamily dwelling unit, plus one guest
14 parking space per three multifamily dwelling
15 units or a minimum of 1.25 spaces per dwelling
16 unit."
17 Condition 9, "Sidewalks along
18 Square Boulevard shall be no less than eight
19 feet in width."
20 Condition 10, "At the time of verification
21 of substantial compliance the applicant will
22 provide a pedestrian plan that shows street
23 trees and street furniture along
24 Boulevard and the perimeter of the landscaping
25 areas fronting
Diane M.
Tropia,
33
1 Condition 11, "All entry signage shall be
2 architecturally consistent, of a monument style,
3 and be limited to 200 square feet per sign
4 face."
5 Condition 12, "Signage that advertises
6 multifamily uses shall be nonilluminated or
7 externally illuminated except on
8 or
9 internally illuminated."
10 Condition 13, as adopted from the Planning
11 Commission, "There shall be no access from the
12 subject property to and from
13 River
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
15 Let us start off with the applicant.
16 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden, you have three
18 minutes to give your opening statement.
19 MR. HARDEN: Can I pass these out first?
20 MR. HOLT: Mr. Chair, could I ask a
21 question?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
23 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24 Mr. Kelly, could I ask you a question?
25 MR. KELLY: (No response.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
34
1 MR. HOLT: Mr. Kelly, could I ask you a
2 question?
3 MR. KELLY: Sure.
4 MR. HOLT: Just to make sure I'm perfectly
5 clear on this, your support of this is
6 conditional that River
7 open. If there were to be an amendment that
8 were to close the access to River Oaks, the
9 Planning Department would not support that; is
10 that true?
11 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
12 The Planning Department does not support
13 the full closure of access to River Oaks and
14 Summerall.
15 MR. HOLT: Okay. I just wanted to make
16 sure I was clear on that.
17 Thank you.
18 MR. JONES: (Inaudible.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
20 MR. JONES: Through the Chair to Mr. Kelly,
21 the Planning Department did not recommend
22 condition number 13; is that correct?
23 MR. KELLY: That's correct. That was
24 brought out at Planning Commission.
25 MR. JONES: Okay. Why would you not
Diane M.
Tropia,
35
1 support that, item 13, the closure -- closing
2 access to River
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, before we get into
4 that, let's just get the presentations and then
5 we'll get back into the -- to the deep, deepness
6 of it all.
7 MR. JONES: Okay. Thank you, sir.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Unless you really have to
9 have that before we go forward.
10 MR. JONES: No.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Harden.
12 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
13 Boulevard.
14 I represent
15 is a major national urban infill developer.
16
17 the country doing similar urban infill projects
18 that you have before you today. They spent
19 millions of dollars in anticipation of the
20 cleanup of the
21 projects, you have water, sewer infrastructure
22 that you have to move around, and it causes a
23 great deal of expense.
24 The current status of the property is shown
25 in the handout you have before you. If you'll
Diane M.
Tropia,
36
1 look at the inside cover and then follow through
2 with the next three or four pictures, you'll see
3 the existing commercial development, both to the
4 north and south of the project, as well as what
5 will -- previously, the residential housing
6 along the rear of the site, along the railroad.
7 As you, I think, will agree, this is a
8 substantial upgrade to the current status of the
9 property. The current status of the property is
10 a CCG-2 zoning except for a small strip along
11 the railroad.
12 The most intense commercial zoning allowed
13 under the zoning code is available for use on
14 this site currently. The classification will
15 allow for intense retail activity 24 hours a day
16 and basically at unlimited heights with
17 setbacks.
18 The suggested design of the current
19 allowable zoning is shown in the handout.
20 An additional potential zoning on the site
21 could be a 15- or 20-story hotel with a lot more
22 than 900 rooms on the site. It's the intention
23 of
24 zoning, to build a low-rise, mid-rise, mixed-use
25 development.
Diane M.
Tropia,
37
1 The proposed plan is set forth and shown in
2 the handout you have before you.
3 The proposed use would include a mix of
4 single-family, retail and office use, and would
5 focus around transportation amenities that are
6 shown on the site.
7
8 as other developers [sic] in other parts of the
9 country and in
10 photographs of similar mixed-use products that
11
12 Before you today is a request for an
13 approval of a PUD. That PUD is consistent with
14 the current land use designation on the site.
15 This is not a change to the future land use
16 map. The current land use designation allows up
17 to 90 percent residential on the site through
18 the planned unit development.
19
20 site. I know it's difficult to visualize
21 knowing what's in the area now, the proposal
22 that
23 we have, the vision that
24 as shown in juxtaposition to what's on the
Diane M.
Tropia,
38
1 particularly the
2 we respectfully request your approval of the
3 application of the PUD.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
5 Mr. Franklin.
6 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: You have three minutes to
8 give your opening statement as well.
9 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
10 council members.
11 Tim Franklin,
12 San Marco Preservation Society.
13 My grandfather used to say, "It only takes
14 a second longer to do something right." Good
15 advice to me growing up, and I think good advice
16 to the council tonight.
17 What's at stake here on the upside, as Paul
18 said, you do have an opportunity to potentially
19 have a vibrant redevelopment, a cure for urban
20 blight along
21 upside and a potentially great project.
22 The downside is -- we have a golden goose,
23 if you will, in terms of the San Marco
24 neighborhood, that you don't want to kill by
25 approving this project without careful
Diane M.
Tropia,
39
1 consideration and/or careful conditions. The
2 project tonight, we have neither one.
3 In terms of the careful consideration of
4 this project, there has been a lack of that from
5 the very outset in terms of the application
6 proposed. The site plan was a bubble plan,
7 pretty standard, but, however, the written
8 description did not contain the items that the
9 PUD portions of the code require to contain. It
10 still doesn't contain all those things. But,
11 despite that, the Planning Department found it
12 to be sufficient and had two public hearings
13 based on that site plan and based on the written
14 description that is very sparse.
15 These things, again, they -- we believe
16 they violate our due process. Some of these
17 things violate your ordinance code expressly,
18 and violates express- -- other provisions of
19
20 committee and council from having competent
21 substantial evidence on which to make a decision
22 in this case.
23 Once they went ahead there, they amended
24 the application. That violates another specific
25 provision of the ordinance code that says no
Diane M.
Tropia,
40
1 amendments. It doesn't say if we accept it,
2 it's not the developer amending it. It says
3 what it says, no amendments or withdrawals after
4 fees have been paid. That's been violated.
5 But even with the amendments, there's a lot
6 of critical information lacking in the
7 application. There's no traffic study, even
8 though the
9 requires -- recommends that -- over 750 trips
10 you do a traffic study. Not in there.
11 The study that's in there was done for
12 concurrency. We're going to tell you tonight
13 that that's flawed a little bit. The DOT study
14 that they did, that was based on misinformation
15 and is flawed.
16 School concurrency information, there's
17 none in there. We're going to show you tonight
18 that it violates that, and that the fair share
19 that they put in is probably inadequate based on
20 those two things.
21 We're going to also show you that it's a
22 DRI. In spite of state law requiring it to be
23 considered as a DRI, they're piecemealing it,
24 and that's wrong.
25 There's also no -- they're calling it a
Diane M.
Tropia,
41
1 transit-oriented development. There's no TOD
2 standards in their PUD. There's no written
3 phasing. There's no mixed use requirement in
4 the PUD. They have an or, or, or. They could
5 do 90 percent residential here and not a bit of
6 commercial.
7 So those things, we think, haven't been
8 carefully considered and carefully conditioned.
9 We're going to have a list of conditions for you
10 which we'd like you to consider as we go
11 forward.
12 Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
14 Okay. We've had the opening statements
15 from both parties. Now it's time for the
16 applicant. You have 15 minutes to present your
17 case.
18 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Before you start, I need for
20 you and whichever witnesses you plan on calling
21 to be sworn in by the court reporter.
22 MR. HARDEN: Well, the witnesses I'm going
23 to call are here, but they'll be in response to
24 anything that's presented by Mr. Franklin. I'm
25 going to rely on the testimony of the Planning
Diane M.
Tropia,
42
1 Department.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: So you're going to do it as
3 a rebuttal?
4 MR. HARDEN: I'm going to speak --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: But you're not going to
6 bring anybody in your 15 minutes to --
7 MR. HARDEN: Correct.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, we need to
9 swear you in, then.
10 MR. HARDEN: Okay.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Diane.
12 THE REPORTER: Do you affirm that the
13 testimony you're about to give will be the
14 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
15 truth?
16 MR. HARDEN: I do.
17 THE REPORTER: Thank you.
18 MR. HARDEN: Let me do some handouts before
19 I start, if you don't mind.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
21 MR. HARDEN: (Tenders documents.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Harden.
23 MR. HARDEN: Let me give Mr. Jones a copy,
24 if I could, Mr. Chairman.
25 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Diane M.
Tropia,
43
1 Just as a preface, in response to
2 Mr. Franklin's comments, there has been a great
3 deal of careful consideration of this proposal.
4 The only amendment which we prepared but we
5 can't amend, you can't amend, was at the
6 specific request of his client. They asked for
7 five changes to the written description; we put
8 them in there.
9 Now, you can see the comments that -- he
10 thinks he's gearing up for litigation, but we
11 feel very comfortable that the actions of your
12 staff and your professional staff, in the review
13 of this, adequately comply with the law, and
14 we're prepared to defend it.
15
16 Department, many, many months ago, the Jackson
17 Square concept. The Planning Department
18 reviewed in great detail the documents
19 presented, and on several occasions requested
20 additional input prior to moving forward with
21 the application.
22 Before presenting the application to you,
23 there was a great deal of research and gathering
24 of information. The
25 has not only been the product of many, many
Diane M.
Tropia,
44
1 hours by the engineers and traffic consultants
2 and planners that
3 the document, but many, many hours of work by
4 your Planning Department and the Development
5 Services department of the City of
6
7 The many hours of work by the Planning
8 Department resulted in a detailed report which
9 contained the imposition of 12 additional
10 conditions, over and above the many conditions
11 that were required by the Planning Department as
12 part of the sufficiency review. So we went
13 through a review, there were amendments
14 requested to the application before it was
15 presented, and now there are an additional 12
16 conditions on top of that, on top of the five
17 that actually were given to us initially by the
18 San Marco Preservation group.
19 Following the initial written description,
20 we took that input from the San Marco
21 Preservation group and asked you to amend the
22 application for us, which is allowable under the
23 code.
24 One of the specific requests, for example,
25 was a height request that moved from 90 feet
Diane M.
Tropia,
45
1 down to 70 feet that we agreed to at their
2 request.
3 Following that initial community meeting, a
4 request for a deferral was made by
5 Mr. Franklin's client. They said they wanted to
6 review the process and meet with us. That's
7 been over the last -- Councilman Shad said five,
8 I count six weeks, but -- there's been six weeks
9 since the full process was geared up to go
10 forward with this application.
11 During that time, while we did not receive
12 a request for a meeting, we received, from the
13 San Marco Preservation group, a list of
14 questions, which I have referred to as
15 interrogatories, and you have a copy of those.
16 These are questions that were sent to us
17 specifically to glean the information that
18 Mr. Franklin feels wasn't put in the
19 application. And in all due respect, it's the
20 information the Planning Department thinks they
21 deemed sufficient, but on top of that, they sent
22 us this set of interrogatories, or questions,
23 and those are -- that's information that they
24 felt was left out, and we provided that document
25 to them, now, about two-and-a-half weeks ago.
Diane M.
Tropia,
46
1 The questions go into great detail about
2 percentages and heights and activity on the
3 site, and that is all included in our
4 application.
5 Two business days ago, I received from the
6 San Marco Preservation group a list of 17
7 additional conditions to burden the site. Those
8 proposed conditions included nine topics. Those
9 topics were obviously the River Oaks access, the
10 transit-oriented development information, what
11 they called "clarity," the
12 multifamily housing requirements, parking,
13 phasing, additional height limitations,
14 recreation and landscaping.
15 With regard to the River Oaks issue, in all
16 due respect, we agree with the Planning
17 Department, and I'm going to present you some
18 statistics and make available information to you
19 why we think River Oaks should stay open.
20 With regard to the transit-oriented
21 development, that matter was fully vetted by
22 your planning staff and dealt with by the
23 planning staff.
24 Additionally, the developer is at the mercy
25 of the
Diane M.
Tropia,
47
1 timing with regard to the transit-oriented
2 development.
3 The site plan and written description
4 include a 30-foot-wide right-of-way along the
5 railroad for rapid rail, if and when [sic] such
6 time that's available.
7 The design and site plan include a bus
8 facility that would rival any in the city of
9
10 the Planning Department has added an upgraded
11 condition 6, I believe it is, that becomes more
12 specific about that bus activity and it includes
13 a site plan on the design.
14 So with regard to transit-oriented
15 development, we believe the Planning Department
16 has dealt with that.
17 With regard to River Oaks Road, the -- we
18 just basically disagree.
19 On the other hand, the additional seven
20 topics that were presented to us two days ago
21 were the subject of agreed-upon conditions we
22 agreed to add on to the application.
23 Councilman Shad asked Ms. Eller to reduce
24 those to writing. She was the scrivener at the
25 meeting. We agreed to them. The
Diane M.
Tropia,
48
1 representatives of San Marco Preservation agreed
2 to them. And we were agreeable to adding on,
3 again, an additional seven conditions.
4 In all due respect, I think a cursory
5 review of the Planning Department report shows
6 that the issues that were newly raised two
7 business days ago were included in the Planning
8 Department's report, but for accommodation and
9 clarity sake, we were agreeable and agreed to
10 those seven additional conditions.
11 About 20 minutes ago -- or 20 minutes
12 before the agenda meeting, I received a list of
13 an additional ten conditions that reworded the
14 seven conditions that we agreed to just two
15 business days ago.
16 In all due respect, I don't think it's
17 appropriate -- particularly since the Planning
18 Department has vetted all of these issues, we
19 agreed to a set of conditions just two days
20 ago -- to come up with an additional group of
21 conditions that reword things that we dealt with
22 several days ago.
23 This is a very, very reviewed process by
24 the Planning Department. They dealt with all
25 these issues, and we respectfully request that
Diane M.
Tropia,
49
1 the conditions Mr. Franklin has mentioned and
2 the new ones that we got an hour ago, after a
3 six-week deferral -- remember, that six-week
4 deferral came after five weeks of scheduled
5 public hearings and meetings.
6 I just don't think it's an appropriate
7 methodology to review the site -- and, in all
8 due respect, the items that are listed were the
9 nine that I went through, are included in the
10 Planning Department report and the conditions
11 that we agreed to at the meeting Councilman Shad
12 prepared.
13 With regard to the remaining issue -- and I
14 think it's been identified -- the
15 [sic] access activity, you can see by the
16 handout that our project will not have a
17 substantial effect on River
18 Let me -- our traffic engineer is here and
19 will testify if you have questions.
20 River
21 7 percent capacity. Not 70, Danny Warfel's
22 number, 7 percent capacity on its current
23 activity.
24 The Planning Department, since the Planning
25 Commission activity, has done a traffic study to
Diane M. Tropia,
50
1 make a determination with regard to access to
2 Summerall. And it's not access directly on
3
River
4 see on the site plan that's a part of the
5 handout -- it goes between the JEA industrial
6 site and an existing commercial facility that
7 adds Summerall to that site.
8 We believe that the access to Summerall is
9 important for the same reasons the Planning
10 Department does, life safety reasons, you know,
11 police and fire. Proper planning would suggest
12 that there be some access off the site onto
13 River Oaks to meet the needs of utility and
14 service entrances. The JEA wants that as the
15 access. As I told you, we had to deal with a
16 multitude of infrastructure needs there -- and
17 the JEA has their site there at that location --
18 and interconnectivity.
19 The Planning Department and the City of
20
21 supports the Summerall access. The folks who
22 don't want that access suggest that it will
23 overburden River
24 capacity now.
25 If you will look at the other handout I
Diane M.
Tropia,
51
1 handed out to you, that's a report prepared by
2 your Planning Department. What it says is, with
3 full access to River
4 there will be 29 peak-hour trips coming from
5 this project.
6 If you put what I now know is a chicane on
7 the Summerall access and make sure that you can
8 only do a left in, not a right out -- that would
9 be a limited access -- it would result in
10 24 peak-hour trips onto River
11 on there. And then with no access off
12 Summerall, the project will result in
13 19 peak-hour trips. So the difference between
14 full access and limited access is ten peak-hour
15 trips on a parcel -- on a road that has
16 7 percent capacity currently.
17 Now, I would again suggest that that is a
18 de minimis impact on the site, but don't forget,
19 it's 17 acres of CCG-2 zoned land. So without
20 this PUD and the project were to be developed
21 consistent with the current zoning -- there's a
22 report from the -- it came out at the Planning
23 Commission meeting -- that says the trips off
24 the site would be about 12,500. That's a DOT
25 report that the San Marco Preservation group
Diane M.
Tropia,
52
1 gave to the Planning Commission.
2 Our project has about 8,000 trips a day.
3 So about two-thirds, using their numbers, of the
4 trips. So our project, even if you use the full
5 number of trips in the Planning Department's
6 report, it's still 66 percent of what you
7 could -- if the site were developed as currently
8 proposed. And, in addition, it only burdens an
9 additional five -- excuse me, ten peak-hour
10 trips to the location.
11 In response to questions raised by the
12 community, the Planning Department actually went
13 out to determine what the impact was, and I
14 would respectfully suggest that that's the most
15 competent substantial information that you can
16 have before you on that.
17 We believe it's an unfounded fear that
18 River
19 And while I'm talking about that, I keep
20 hearing rumors and people keep coming back and
21 saying that we want to four-lane River Oaks
22 Road, we want to put in traffic -- parking
23 spaces. We don't want to do anything to River
25 The Planning Department initially suggested
Diane M.
Tropia,
53
1 two things:
2 One, traffic calming devices; humps, if you
3 will, on the road. We said that we would agree
4 to put those in.
5 And, second, a neighborhood identification
6 sign at the railroad track. As you move -- I
7 think as Sean indicated -- from across the
8 railroad track, to use a euphemism, to the east,
9 you go into a full industrial-zoned and
10 developed area with commercial as you get to
12 tracks, it's single-family. So the Planning
13 Department suggested perhaps identifying that
14 neighborhood would also be a traffic calming
15 activity.
16 So to make our position clear, we don't
17 want to four-lane River
18 want to put in additional parking spaces. We
19 don't want to do anything to River
20 that the folks who live there don't want.
21 If they want the traffic calming devices,
22 we'll be happy to participate as part of the
23 project.
24 It is our hope that you will approve this
25 application as approved by the Planning
Diane M.
Tropia,
54
1 Department with the 12 conditions that they
2 proposed as part of their additional -- I guess
3 there's an amended number 6 condition, so the
4 12 conditions as amended by condition number --
5 no it's 8, I'm sorry. Condition 8.
6 MS. ELLER: Six.
7 MR. HARDEN: Six? All right. Thank you.
8 Now, on top of that, we are agreeable to
9 the seven conditions that we thought everybody
10 agreed to Friday, that Ms. Eller reduced to
11 writing.
12 In all due respect, we believe the Planning
13 Commission additional condition is not warranted
14 due to the fact of the limited activity on
15 River Oaks now and the limited amount of
16 activity that will be shown by the -- that's
17 shown by the Planning Department's report with
18 regard to the matter.
19 So, with that, I'll close our presentation
20 and certainly be happy to answer any questions
21 at the appropriate time.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
23 I think -- do I take -- cross-examine now
24 of the applicant?
25 MS. ELLER: If Tim has anything to say.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, you have five
2 minutes to cross-examine.
3 Mr. Harden, don't go too far.
4 MR. HARDEN: I'm not. I'm just staying out
5 of --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: It may work a little easier
7 if -- Mr. Crofts, if you can give him your mic.
8 MR. CROFTS: (Complies.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: That way we don't have to
10 worry about Mr. Harden hitting you.
11 MR. FRANKLIN: First of all, Mr. Harden,
12 talking about the --
13 MR. HARDEN: Tim, I'm not going to hit you.
14 MR. FRANKLIN: Pardon?
15 MR. HARDEN: I'm not going to hit you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: He's not going to hit you.
17 MR. FRANKLIN: Oh. Thank you.
18 Talking about the deferral, isn't it a fact
19 that at least two of the weeks of the deferral
20 were due to the councilman's request and another
21 week was at the request for you on vacation?
22 MR. HARDEN: No.
23 The original request for deferral came at
24 the request of San Marco Preservation standing
25 here at a public meeting before the LUZ
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1 Committee. That resulted in a hearing that was
2 set for Tuesday night where I had a meeting with
3 Lehman Brothers in
4 planned for about three months. Unfortunately,
5 it was the day after they went bankrupt. And so
6 I couldn't be here on that night. It was a
7 meeting I couldn't change. And it was said at
8 that time, it won't be a two-week deferral
9 because there's a fifth week; it will be a
10 five-week deferral. Ultimately, it worked out
11 to be a six-week deferral.
12 So it was never at my request. It was
13 never for a vacation. It was never at a
14 councilman's request. It was at Ms. Boyer's
15 request.
16 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Isn't it a fact,
17 though, that during the deferral on September
18 17th that that's when we actually received a
19 revised site plan and a revised written
20 description, was during the deferral period?
21 MR. HARDEN: During the deferral period we
22 had already scheduled a meeting with generally
23 the River Oaks community, with some San Marco
24 Preservation folks at the site.
25 We went to that meeting. I went to the
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1 meeting. Mr. Cissel was there, all of our
2 consultants were there.
3 At that time, there were requests for five
4 changes to the site plan and five -- or five
5 changes to the written description and site
6 plan. We accommodated those requests. If you
7 want them taken back out, we'll be happy to do
8 that, if you think that's a change. So I'm
9 offering to do that. If they prefer to stick
10 with the original site plan and written
11 description, we're happy to do that.
12 But, yes, that's when it happened, at the
13 request of your clients. But if you want to
14 take it back, we'll take it back.
15 MR. FRANKLIN: No. We'll keep them in.
16 You had mentioned, Paul, in talking about
17 how many of the changed conditions and things
18 like that and talking about the seven conditions
19 at the meeting of Friday -- isn't it a fact that
20 those seven conditions were essentially proposed
21 as part of the list by San Marco at the Planning
22 Commission the day before?
23 The seven conditions talked about on
24 Friday -- at the meeting with Councilman Shad on
25 Friday, came from the list of conditions
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1 tendered to the Planning Commission the day
2 before at the public hearing?
3 MR. HARDEN: I don't think it was the day
4 before the -- because there was a fifth week,
5 Planning Commission met a week before that.
6 MR. FRANKLIN: A week before that, that's
7 correct.
8 MR. HARDEN: And at that time they tendered
9 a list of, I think, 14 conditions. Those were a
10 different set of conditions that were tendered
11 at the meeting and yet a different set of
12 conditions that were tendered today.
13 They dealt with the same subjects, to
14 answer your question. Councilman Shad had us go
15 through the entire list. He asked what we could
16 agree on. Things we couldn't agree on, we
17 didn't discuss. Things that we could agree
18 on --
19 Ms. Eller was the scrivener. I didn't
20 write them down. She wrote down what the
21 agreements were, and we agreed to those. In
22 fact, there were some pretty substantial
23 concessions on height and landscaping and that
24 sort of stuff.
25 And, you know, we thought that was a
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1 resolution of the matter, but the topics were
2 the same, the conditions were different I think
3 is the answer to your question.
4 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Talking about some of
5 the -- the access to
6 that you mentioned, you mentioned one that JEA,
7 for utility service entrances --
8 MR. HARDEN: Yes.
9 MR. FRANKLIN: -- and access, didn't -- JEA
10 owns a piece of property on the southwest
11 corner, where the water plant is?
12 MR. HARDEN: JEA, yeah.
13 MR. FRANKLIN: And that property is
14 actually under contract to be a part of, I
15 guess, an integrated development?
16 MR. HARDEN: Well, yeah.
17 You can see on the site plan the location
18 of the JEA facility. It's out-moded
19 infrastructure facility.
20 As part of our activity, we've agreed to
21 update some of the infrastructure there, but the
22 JEA will -- you know, it's not just for our
23 capacity. It would be capacity for the whole
24
25 accommodate, you know, some portion -- small
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1 portion for our project as well, yes.
2 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Just my point -- only
3 point was going to be if JEA needed access to
4 the property, you guys could agree to put a
5 fence somewhere between their property and yours
6 to allow some kind of emergency additional
7 access that wouldn't be an ingress/egress point
8 for the entire development?
9 MR. HARDEN: Certainly we could allow that,
10 and that -- be happy to do that.
11 That's not the Planning Commission
12 condition. They conditioned it -- cutting it
13 off at Summerall, which would require immediate
14 access from the JEA off of River
15 Summerall.
16 Currently, the JEA goes out on Summerall
17 and then to River
18 access. If you were to cut off the Summerall
19 access, they'd have to go out onto River Oaks
20 Road directly.
21 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. I think the JEA
22 property is actually to the southwest, so I
23 don't think they access off of Summerall. I
24 think it's River Oaks, but -- just meaning
25 that they could --
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1 You mentioned a life safety issue. Isn't
2 it true that for multifamily housing that one of
3 the recommendations of life safety and of
4 anticrime initiatives is that you limit access
5 and to have a central access point rather than
6 have multiple accesses to a large multifamily
7 facility such as this?
8 MR. HARDEN: Well, one of the requested
9 conditions -- I think it actually came from
10 Councilman Joost, but they added it in, was that
11
we comply with the
12 conditions with regard to multifamily and
13 controlled access -- it's not limited access,
14 controlled access -- so that at each location
15 where there is an access it would be
16 controlled. I don't think limiting it to one
17 door is what they're proposing.
18 Life safety, if you have
19 say you have a bad wreck on
20 it blocks the
21 want to get in for a fire truck on River Oaks
22 Road, that's what I mean by life safety issues.
23 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. And the proposal has
24 two other entrances to the north --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, your five
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1 minutes are up.
2 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay.
3 MR. HARDEN: I'll stand here and answer
4 questions as long as he likes, Mr. Chairman.
5 MR. FRANKLIN: I only had one more, if I
6 could get one more.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll let you get that last
8 one.
9 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Thank you.
10 And if you could answer the one I just
11 asked, if there are two entrances on Mark and
12 Mitchell to the north.
13 MR. HARDEN: That's correct.
14 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Last question, Paul.
15 You mentioned about the -- projected
16 somewhere between five -- or excuse me -- yeah,
17 five or ten additional peak-hour trips,
18 depending upon the -- based on Mr. Kelly's
19 methodology. The average --
20 MR. HARDEN: Whose methodology?
21 MR. FRANKLIN: Was it Ms. King?
22 MR. HARDEN: Oh.
23 MR. FRANKLIN: I'm not sure. Did Ms. King
24 prepare that?
25 I know that it was --
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1 MR. KELLY: (Inaudible.)
2 MR. FRANKLIN: We'll come back to that.
3 My question was, by the department's
4 methodology on the average daily trips on it,
5 it's approximated to be about 850, 847; is that
6 about right?
7 MR. HARDEN: I don't have those numbers in
8 front of me.
9 I only dealt with the peak-hour trips on
10 River
11 24 with the chicane or the one-way-in,
12 one-way-out access, and 29 with full access,
13 which by mathematical -- means 10 additional
14 peak-hour trips on the project -- on the road,
15 that, as I said, is 7 percent of its current
16 capacity.
17 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 Thank you, Mr. Harden.
20 MR. HARDEN: Thanks.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, you have
22 15 minutes to present your case.
23 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 Briefly, if I could, before I start, I've
25 got some -- I guess the latest and greatest that
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1 Paul was talking about, he received a little bit
2 ago, the set of conditions.
3 We sent these out yesterday, but if I could
4 pass these out here.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
6 MR. FRANKLIN: I think there should be
7 sufficient copies. If there's not, I have more.
8 Let me say this: The intent with the
9 conditions, as Paul had said, they -- they've
10 stayed the same. We've basically got about six
11 little areas, landscape, transit-orient [sic],
12 access to River
13 The conditions really haven't changed from
14 what we proposed at Planning Commission. We
15 have simply consolidated them to make them
16 easier to read. There are one or two that we
17 tightened up a little bit on them, some of the
18 language. There were one or two that we
19 actually relaxed to allow a little more -- for
20 example, we had proposed, I believe -- for
21 instance, one condition, 276 units with 20,000
22 retail. We now said up to 300 units with 18,000
23 retail.
24 So we -- they're essentially the same
25 conditions, committee members. There's nothing
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1 new here, no surprises, if you will. We're just
2 at a standstill on getting agreement on these
3 conditions.
4 In the first condition Mr. Harden had spoke
5 of, you know, the River Oaks access, the --
6 actually, the Planning Commission -- and I've
7 got the transcript here. Paul said, we will
8 work with you on whatever condition you come up
9 with. And there was a couple of comments to
10 that perspective at Planning Commission. I
11 mean, whatever you want to do, that road is
12 not -- several commissioners suggested it wasn't
13 vital to the project. It's not a necessity, so
14 why do it. Paul said -- and I could quote him,
15 but -- and I will just for fun:
16 "We're going to accept whatever solution
17 you-all propose."
18 Mr. Hardesty: "Fair enough."
19 They accepted at Planning Commission and
20 now they're here telling you it is a do-or-die
21 issue. Well, I'm here to tell you it's a
22 do-or-die issue for this neighborhood. That
23 condition, above everything else that you're
24 looking at today, that is the one that the
25 neighborhood needs. That's the one they believe
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1 is going to be most critical to the preservation
2 of San Marco.
3 Again, let's face it, that's the reason
4 they want to build this project here, is because
5 it's a very successful TND neighborhood.
6 There's bungalows, there's mansions on the
7 river, there's rental properties, owner-occupied
8 properties, all in a nice, mixed-use area with a
9 great mix of retail, service, restaurants,
10 office, and it works. And that's why they want
11 to be close to it. And we -- we're going to
12 protect that.
13 So that condition, just looking at that
14 one, River Oaks, we -- we do think that that's
15 very important.
16 And I do have a couple of questions for
17 staff, and I may -- I don't know exactly who I'm
18 going to call on yet, if we can maybe have them
19 sworn in, Mr. Chairman.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: You want to swear in the
21 staff?
22 MR. FRANKLIN: I would like to.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Speaking of -- stop the
24 clock for a second. We didn't swear you in.
25 THE REPORTER: Do you affirm that the
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1 testimony you're about to give will be the
2 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
3 truth?
4 MR. FRANKLIN: I do.
5 THE REPORTER: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, since you're there,
7 let's get the staff -- go ahead. Put your arms
8 up, all of you. You too,
9 Go ahead. Do it again.
10 THE REPORTER: Do you affirm that the
11 testimony you're about to give will be the
12 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
13 truth?
14 (Mr. Kelly, Mr. Huxford, Mr. Avery,
15 Mr. Crofts, and Ms. Eller respond
16 affirmatively.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
18 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you.
19 And let me say too, you know, we -- this is
20 not the -- Paul would participate in the
21 meeting -- chicanery or that the developer is
22 not trustworthy and reputable. These people are
23 all trustworthy and reputable people. The
24 question here is -- our real concern -- and I
25 think it's apparent now -- we're worried about
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1 market changes. We're worried about what
2 happens if the worst thing happens. What
3 happens if there's a successor developer here or
4 a bank that is the developer of this project,
5 what conditions are going to be on them to make
6 this thing work? Are they going to widdle it
7 down to the best possible alternative?
8 Those things happen. We've just seen it
9 happen, and so it's not some far off concept of,
10 yeah, but it will probably be okay. No, it's
11 happening. So you don't want it to happen at
12 this prime location. That's why we're
13 suggesting these conditions.
14 But I'd like to ask, I guess, Sean Kelly a
15 few questions about some of the traffic issues
16 because that's our -- that's what's at stake
17 here on River
18 Mr. Kelly, do you have a copy of the -- I
19 guess it would be the table 1 trip generation
20 that was prepared in the original report? This
21 one, Sean, where it comes up with total of 8,496
22 new trips, if you will, or daily trips on the
23 property?
24 MR. KELLY: I've got a copy of trip
25 generation table 1, but it's dated October 2nd,
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1 2008.
2 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. What final number do
3 you have on that -- or what number comes up?
4 MR. KELLY: Average daily trips --
5 MR. FRANKLIN: Yes.
6 MR. KELLY: -- or p.m. peak hour?
7 MR. FRANKLIN: I'd go with the average
8 daily.
9 MR. KELLY: Daily trips are 8,496.
10 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. So we're coming up
11 with essentially the same numbers.
12 A couple of questions about that real
13 quickly, Sean.
14 First one, if you look in the -- and,
15 council members, this is in some of your
16 original materials too, but --
17 There's an internal capture rate that
18 they're using to come up with the number of
19 trips. Apartments, there's 17.74; commercial,
20 13.08; general office, 8.58. My question to
21 Sean, where did -- does that internal capture
22 rate, is that related to the mix of commercial
23 to residential? Is that related to being a
24 mixed-use development?
25 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
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1 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. My question, then, is
2 that based on the maximum -- or I guess the
3 target of 65 percent residential and 35 percent
4 commercial, is that where that internal capture
5 rate comes from?
6 MR. KELLY: That internal capture rate is
7 based on the concurrency application and the
8 number of dwelling units and square feet of
9 office and square feet of commercial.
10 MR. FRANKLIN: Which is essentially about a
11 65/35 mix, if I'm correct on that, residential
12 to -- gross floor area of commercial and office;
13 is that about right?
14 MR. KELLY: It depends on how big the units
15 are.
16 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Well, let me just ask
17 it this way: Using whatever units, is there
18 anything in the PUD that would require them to
19 build or not build a certain number of
20 residential units or a certain number of
21 commercial units?
22 MR. KELLY: The PUD deals with maximum
23 amounts of residential units and maximum amounts
24 of commercial and office.
25 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. But, in other words,
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1 the -- the PUD, as I read the written
2 description, simply says a mix of this
3 residential or office or retail. It doesn't
4 require them to build a mixed-use development,
5 in fact?
6 MR. KELLY: The underlying land use would
7 require the mixed-use development. The CGC land
8 use cannot be single -- residential use.
9 MR. FRANKLIN: But it could be up to
10 90 percent residential and 10 percent
11 commercial, and they'd be in compliance with the
12 comp plan and the PUD, correct?
13 MR. KELLY: No. The site plan specifically
14 shows designated commercial/retail uses on the
15 first floor of the buildings in Phase I and
16 Phase II, so I'd say that ultimately 10 percent
17 would be inconsistent with the site plan which
18 generates a larger percentage.
19 MR. FRANKLIN: Well, that's assuming that
20 the site plan is multistory or assuming, the
21 residential, they could go up four stories
22 and -- they could go up actually to 75 feet with
23 the residential and first floor commercial, and
24 they would be about 90 and 10 percent?
25 In other words, your assumption is based on
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1 them building equal amounts of commercial and
2 residential, I guess, floors, if you will, in
3 each space, Sean?
4 MR. KELLY: No. I mean, the assumption is
5 based on the site plan and the specific
6 dimensions of the office component, building,
7 which is, I believe, a -- a one- or two-story
8 building at the northeast end of the development
9 and then based upon the commercial ground floor
10 retail components along
11 and the
12 MR. FRANKLIN: That site plan is just a
13 floor plan? It doesn't show any heights or
14 story buildings on that? That is merely a floor
15 plan --
16 MR. KELLY: It's a horizontal plan.
17 MR. FRANKLIN: It's not elevations, so
18 there's no -- there's no actual limitations on
19 that site plan that would require all those to
20 be one story or all to be four? Some could be
21 four, some could be one? And no particular
22 building is required to be any certain height or
23 size, correct?
24 MR. KELLY: There's maximum heights set out
25 in the written description.
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1 MR. FRANKLIN: Right. But the site plan
2 doesn't require any particular building to be
3 any certain height?
4 MR. KELLY: (Nods head.)
5 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. The other thing I
6 wanted to ask you about, Mr. Kelly, just real
7 quick. Same memorandum -- or same table showing
8 certain land use codes there for the traffic
9 generation. We're showing an 843 and a 942,
10 automotive parts sales credit, automotive care
11 center credit. Are you familiar with that?
12 MR. KELLY: (Nods head.)
13 MR. FRANKLIN: They're being given a credit
14 on those.
15 Aren't those land use codes associated more
16 frequently with Auto Zones and other stores?
17 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
18 That is credit from the previous use of the
19 property.
20 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Isn't it true,
21 though, that the land use code 841, new car
22 sales, would include as a component a
23 substantial amount of used car sales and also
24 parts and accessories and servicing under that
25 land use code for just the new automotive
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1 sales?
2 MR. KELLY: I would have to look at the ITE
3 definition of what that entailed, but it seems
4 plausible.
5 MR. FRANKLIN: Well, I'm going to turn in,
6 if I can, Mr. Chairman, a -- just a brief table
7 prepared by Richard McCubbin, former City
8 traffic engineer. Mr. McCubbin has basically
9 estimated a couple of things here, but the big
10 one being that -- using those numbers, come up
11 with about -- approximately 400 more trips by
12 reducing the credit they're getting because a
13 new car place has used car sales and it has
14 automotive service, so they're giving too great
15 of a credit with that.
16 So I'd like to tender this for the record,
17 if I could.
18 Last question for Mr. Kelly.
19 The DOT memorandum, Mr. Kelly, that they
20 turned in, are you familiar with that? It's
21 actually addressed to Aaron Glick, dated July
22 22nd, 2008.
23 MR. KELLY: I've got it.
24 MR. FRANKLIN: Could I get a time count?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You have five-and-a-half
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1 minutes.
2 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Very quickly. The
3 FDOT generated their numbers by using
4 approximately -- about 264,000 of retail, and
5 it's correct, they came up -- they estimated
6 12,761 trips based on that amount of retail,
7 correct?
8 MR. KELLY: They used land use ITE code
9 820.
10 MR. FRANKLIN: A shopping center?
11 MR. KELLY: Correct.
12 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. And we're using a
13 retail code and office -- we're using
14 approximately 150 of retail, 200 of office, and
15 900 residential units, and coming up with 8,400
16 or Richard's number is about 8,800, whichever
17 you accept, correct? Based on table 3 in
18 Richard's memorandum.
19 MR. KELLY: Correct.
20 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Thanks.
21 Real quick, just basically three questions
22 for
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
24 MR. FRANKLIN: Through the Chair to
25 Ms. Eller.
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1 development order under
2 MS. ELLER: Yes.
3 MR. FRANKLIN: And development orders,
4 generally under -- mainly rule 9J-5, are
5 required to meet concurrency -- or to use the
6 laymen's terms, required to be concurrent with
7 the impacts measured under 9J-5, all development
8 orders?
9 MS. ELLER: Yes.
10 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. And just -- last
11 question. Schools are an element now under
12 state law of concurrency?
13 MS. ELLER: Yes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
15 Ms. Eller.
16 Just like to turn this in for the record.
17 It's an e-mail. Some of you may have this
18 already. It's from John Loehnert of Duval
19 schools to Councilman Shad, just referencing the
20 fact that at present the two -- elementary
21 school and the high school are over capacity,
22 where they would be going to.
23 Now, we know we're going through
24 redistricting, and that's all fine, but it's --
25 it's well and good to say, well, we're going
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1 through redistricting. That doesn't take care
2 of the problem that this PUD has never been
3 through concurrency.
4 The fact that concurrency has been done for
5 the property is fine. The fact that that was
6 filed before school concurrency was an element
7 of our concurrency office analysis, that's all
8 well and good, but this PUD is actually
9 approving residential units and has to be
10 verified to be concurrent and meeting the
11 impacts. If not, it's a violation of state law,
12 and it's going to be -- it's going to be
13 rejected on that basis.
14 The better question is, why would you want
15 to approve something not knowing if it's going
16 to impact the schools? We don't know yet which
17 schools when the redistricting goes forward, so
18 why wouldn't you put a requirement in the PUD
19 that they go through, at the end of the day, and
20 be required to show that they meet the impacts?
21 Right now, before redistricting, they
22 wouldn't.
23 Another issue that comes up again -- and
24 you may have some of these in the file. I'll
25 turn these in for the record (indicating).
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1 Just parts of the CCAS applications and
2 concurrency management office applications show
3 this as one aggregate development. You actually
4 have commonality of developers with this
5 project, this PUD, and the project across the
6 street.
7 We believe that this project here is right
8 under the DRI thresholds by itself. I mean,
9 we're talking about one or two units or one or
10 two square feet.
11 If you go across for a mixed-use project --
12 if you go across the street and include that,
13 it's way over, way over. And we believe we have
14 commonality of development. They have a common
15 development plan, commonality of the developers,
16 and we believe this is going to constitute a
17 DRI, where a traffic study would be required and
18 all sorts of other things under state law,
19 notwithstanding whatever the City code
20 required.
21 But you've got to ask yourself why none of
22 these things are being requested in this case,
23 traffic studies and those sort of things,
24 privately, just to see what the impacts are on
25 the street.
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1 Another issue, we -- one of our conditions,
2 you'll see, has to do with phasing. I'd like to
3 turn in some of these -- they've essentially
4 said in Phase I they need 281 units. We're very
5 close to that in what we've suggested in
6 phasing.
7 The phasing will actually go through and
8 ensure that this is going to be a mixed-use
9 project.
10 The last, really, issues -- landscaping is
11 kind of off the table. Rec/open space, as long
12 as they meet the comprehensive plan.
13 Some of the bigger things -- if it's going
14 to be a transit-oriented development, why not
15 have those conditions in the PUD and the written
16 description?
17 This doesn't have anything referencing
18 Part 14 that the council adopted just very
19 recently. There's no requirement that they meet
20 any of those standards.
21 Again, it makes little sense to tout it as
22 a transit-oriented development and not have any
23 of those things in there. We would ask that you
24 require them to meet those conditions.
25 The height limit, again, makes a lot of
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1 sense. It's a buffer now, should stay a buffer.
2 The bottom line: River
3 concern we have. That's the major concern. A
4 huge amount of trips on that road. It's not a
5 question of peak-hour trips; it's a question of
6 the average daily trips, about 850 to 880, at a
7 minimum, on that road, in addition to what there
8 are now. That's the thing that's going to
9 impact the neighborhood. Those are the trips
10 that need to be precluded, under the comp plan,
11 from intruding into this neighborhood.
12 You have an opportunity to do it. Planning
13 Commission did it. All you have to do is accept
14 it. It won't kill the deal. They'll find a way
15 to do this with that access, and so we'd ask you
16 to do it because this is -- that's the do-or-die
17 deal for this neighborhood, and they're going to
18 protect it and stand up for it.
19 Thank you.
20 Otherwise, we'll -- let me say this:
21 Otherwise, you know, with these conditions in
22 here, this turns into a very viable, good
23 project. We just want to make sure it ends up
24 being transit-oriented. We want to make sure
25 it's consistent with the existing residential
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1 neighborhood.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, your
3 15 minutes is up and you'll have five minutes at
4 the end to conclude.
5 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: That's what it sounds like
7 you were doing now.
8 MR. FRANKLIN: Yeah.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second.
10 Mr. Harden, do you have any
11 cross-examination?
12 MR. HARDEN: Can I cross-examine Mr. Kelly,
13 his witness?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: You can do Mr. Kelly when
15 you do the rebuttal.
16 MR. HARDEN: That was his witness. I was
17 going to --
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Sure. Fair enough.
19 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Kelly, have you reviewed
20 the traffic report that the Planning Department
21 did?
22 MR. KELLY: The trip generation table?
23 MR. HARDEN: Yes.
24 MR. KELLY: Yes.
25 MR. HARDEN: Notwithstanding Mr. Franklin's
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1 comments, do you believe it to be accurate?
2 MR. KELLY: Yes.
3 MR. HARDEN: Is there anything that he said
4 that would make you think that the information
5 contained in your very thorough report is
6 inaccurate?
7 MR. KELLY: No.
8 MR. HARDEN: Do you stand by the
9 information in there?
10 MR. KELLY: Absolutely.
11 MR. HARDEN: What is the difference in
12 peak-hour trips on that report for a full access
13 on Summerall and no access on Summerall?
14 MR. KELLY: It's ten net trips.
15 MR. HARDEN: Okay. That's all I have.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Now --
18 MR. FRANKLIN: Real quick. Normally you
19 get redirect. I just have one question of
20 Mr. Kelly.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: You will get rebuttal time.
22 Hold on. I'm following the rules.
23 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, we are -- we're going
25 to public comment, and then after we're done
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1 with public comment, both you and Harden get ten
2 minutes rebuttal time.
3 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Well, let me ask
4 this -- can I direct a question through the
5 Chair to General Counsel?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Write it down. You can hit
7 them on your rebuttal time.
8 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Public comment. Do
10 we have cards?
11 MS. ALLEN: (Tenders speakers' cards.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, as I call you up,
13 you'll each get a minute to speak. Please try
14 not to be repetitive.
15 Now, I'm not going to be a tyrant and cut
16 you off right at a minute, but you'll see the
17 clock in front of you. You know when you're
18 running over.
19 We understand this is very emotional. We
20 understand a lot of it -- this is the first time
21 you've ever come to this kind of process and
22 spoke, so relax, take your time. If you go
23 over, just please don't be duplicative and don't
24 be repetitive, but we're here to hear you.
25 Estelle Vickery, followed by Robin
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1 Robinson.
2 And as I call your name, just come up
3 forward.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Estelle had to leave.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let the record show
6 that Estelle is not here.
7 MR. ELSON: I've got her written comments
8 if you --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
10 MR. ELSON: (Tenders document.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Robin Robinson, followed by
12 Carol Hinckley -- Carolyn Hinckley, sorry.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Robin
16 Robinson. I live at
17 I support the redevelopment of this
18 blighted piece of property, but not without
19 knowing what is being proposed. The internal
20 inconsistencies in the description in this PUD
21 application have caused massive confusion to the
22 members of our community that are going to be
23 affected by it.
24 I was raised out West, and we pride
25 ourselves on straight talk out there. We have a
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1 saying that says, "Say what you mean and mean
2 what you say." I wish, sincerely, that that
3 applied to this application.
4 I have heard the developer's words. I've
5 seen his pretty pictures and his site plan, and
6 they don't match, and this is of great concern
7 to me.
8 For example, is this residential use only
9 multifamily or can it be single-family as well?
10 The written description says one thing in one
11 place and another thing in another. The site
12 plan depicts only multifamily.
13 The traffic generated by the single-family
14 is double that for multifamily, yet only
15 multifamily was evaluated by the staff.
16 The appropriate lot coverage, setbacks, and
17 parking also differ greatly between the two
18 uses.
19 The written description says the
20 residential development will be in accordance
21 with the RHD-B zoning category. And the staff
22 report, in discussion, repeats that statement.
23 The minimum lot requirements, maximum lot
24 coverage, minimum yard requirements, and
25 permissible uses stated in the written
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1 description are all inconsistent with RHD-B.
2 Absent a condition resolving these and
3 other inconsistencies between the written
4 description and the site plan, the rezoning is
5 vague, misleading, and much of the analyses of
6 the application is unsupported.
7 If the written description were to override
8 RHD-B requirements in the site plan, this
9 rezoning would fall as inconsistent with the
10 comprehensive plan, both internally and
11 externally.
12 The staff finding of consistency with the
13 comprehensive plan is expressly based on RHD
14 compliance and the depiction in the site plan.
15 Therefore, I support the inclusion of a
16 condition suggested by San Marco Preservation
17 Society that the site plan must be deemed to
18 control over the written description.
19 I also support the other conditions which
20 have been requested by the San Marco
21 Preservation Society.
22 Based on what I've heard tonight, I believe
23 this PUD violates
24 ordinances, and the 2010 Comprehensive Plan.
25 Unless you adopt the conditions recommended
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1 by the San Marco Preservation Society, I believe
2 that this application must be denied.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
4 Carolyn, followed by Rob -- it looks like
5 Smith or Sluth.
6 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Carolyn Hinckley, 1545
10 MR. HARDEN: Excuse me. Before you start,
11 ma'am.
12 Mr. Chairman.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
14 MR. HARDEN: The San Marco Preservation
15 Society is represented by Mr. Franklin. You
16 gave him additional time. We raised this at the
17 agenda meeting. This is the -- they're coming
18 up and repeating the San Marco conditions. It's
19 not -- that's not the process. This is for
20 unrepresented people.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, are you part of the
22 San Marco Preservation?
23 MS. HINCKLEY: I am, but I'm speaking as a
24 resident.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: But you've already been
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1 represented by an attorney. This is only for
2 people that are not already represented by an
3 attorney.
4 MS. HINCKLEY: Okay.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, if there's anything at
6 the end that you'd like to add to the comments,
7 ma'am, you will get the opportunity to do that,
8 but as it is right now, these are only the
9 people that are not represented by an attorney.
10 You asked for this special process;
11 therefore, we're doing it this way.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, are you part of
14 San Marco Preservation?
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm here representing
16 myself, so -- but, yes, I am also a member of
17 San Marco Preservation.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Then we need for you to step
19 back, and you can add things later on if need
20 be.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Alicia [sic] Abernathy.
23 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
24 MR. FRANKLIN: Mr. Chairman, just for
25 clarity, I'm representing the board of directors
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1 of the San Marco Preservation Society.
2 Again, there's -- probably 95 percent of
3 the people that live in San Marco that own homes
4 are members of the preservation society, but
5 they're not here today representing the
6 preservation society. They're speaking on
7 behalf of their own issues.
8 Like I said, I believe the people that we
9 had, that spoke at the Planning Commission
10 meeting, I'm actually speaking on behalf of many
11 of those people who were there at that meeting
12 representing the board, but here tonight are a
13 lot of people just representing their own
14 neighborhood interests who happen to be members
15 of it, so --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller, do you have the
17 letter that they requested to go through this
18 official process? Do we have a copy of that
19 letter?
20 If I'm not mistaken, the letter says that
21 you're representing San Marco Preservation
22 Society, not necessarily the board.
23 MR. SHAD: Mr. Chairman.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Go ahead.
25 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
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1 Through the Chairman to the committee, I
2 see where we're going here. It's going to be
3 challenging. You know, there's people here that
4 have come down to speak. Are we saying if they
5 paid their dues this year and they're a member
6 of the preservation society -- I don't know how
7 we would quantify who is represented by an
8 attorney and who's not.
9 I think we should err on the side -- I know
10 it's going to take a while, and I hope people
11 won't be repetitive of what's been said, but I
12 think we need to err on the side of allowing
13 people who say they're here tonight not being
14 represented by the attorneys to speak, unless
15 they're board members. And there's board
16 members out there who voted to hire an attorney,
17 and I -- no doubt that they are represented, but
18 if someone paid their dues, I don't know if that
19 would disqualify them from speaking tonight, so
20 I'd just put that out there.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: What we were planning on
22 doing is we were going to go through and have
23 those people that are not represented by an
24 attorney, which is somebody that is not a member
25 of the preservation society, and then when
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1 they're done, anything that has not been put on
2 the record that someone feels like they need to
3 add, we can call them up, even though they're a
4 member of the preservation society. At that
5 time, we could have them add what they need to
6 add to the record.
7 MR. SHAD: Would they turn in another card,
8 then?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: No. I'll go back through.
10 I've got them pulled to the side, the people
11 that are a member of the preservation society.
12 I will call them up and ask them if there's
13 anything left they need to add that has not
14 already been said.
15 MR. SHAD: Okay. That's good. So you'll
16 get an opportunity at the end.
17 Thank you.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That would be me,
19 Abernathy.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
21 MR. FRANKLIN: Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
22 I'll just object for the record, but I
23 understand.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That's Ms. Abernathy.
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1 We have Clarence Frazier.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, are you a member of the
4 San Marco Preservation Society?
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am not.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Please go ahead, sir.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Clarence
8 Frazier. I reside at
9
10 Southwood is one of the one-block-long
11 streets that runs south from River Oaks, between
12 the railroad tracks and
13 I believe that the mixed-use nature of this
14 project needs to be more conditioned that -- the
15 way the language appears in the development is
16 that Phase I could include up to the full extent
17 of the 30 units per acre without further
18 conditions of -- of the development, of the
19 commercial and retail space, except for the
20 18,000 square feet required in Phase I, and the
21 issue is the residential density, which would be
22 appropriate if this never became a transit
23 development.
24 The -- there's just no justification for
25 permitting a high-density residential in this
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1 commercial infill. Density alone won't solve
2 the urban blight in this location anymore than
3 it would anywhere else.
4 The applicant wants flexibility. We all
5 want to see the area improved, but we also want
6 to protect our neighborhood, just as you would
7 want to maintain and protect your neighborhood,
8 so I -- I and my neighbors feel that there's --
9 needs to be more restrictions on density and the
10 mixture of the uses to have a positive impact
11 rather than a negative one. And I do recommend
12 that you adopt all the conditions, including
13 that of the Planning Commission, that the --
14 there be no southern access on Summerall to
15 River Oaks.
16 That's all. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
18 David Hamm, followed by Brittney Audibert.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Welcome sir.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thanks.
22 David Hamm, Jerry Hamm Chevrolet, 3494
24 Pretty familiar with this location having
25 worked there about 31 years and dad about
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1 53 years before we moved about six months ago
2 and -- just about a half mile -- I guess it
3 would be south of there, and thank you for the
4 help that we had in getting that.
5 And I know in any -- this was a much less
6 complicated process than what this is, but just
7 having gone through that, I know there's got to
8 be some flexibility built in. And also in our
9 industry there's a lot of negotiations goes on
10 and we get a lot of things.
11 And I have to say, the developer, both
12 First Star, Mr. Cissel,
and
13 get-go have been nothing but gentlemen, have
14 done everything they said they would do. They
15 were about the third developer that we worked
16 with on this project and met with City Council
17 way back earlier just to see what may -- what
18 might be able to be done as we were trying to
19 market the property.
20 We wanted to develop our current property
21 and stay there. We love the neighborhood. We
22 didn't want to move to The Avenues or any other,
23 you know, fancy location. We love the
24 neighborhood, wanted to stay. But as these
25 developers began to approach us, we wanted to
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1 see what could be done and have, you know, early
2 on meetings with some -- a lot of you guys'
3 predecessors.
4 But we just want to tell you we support
5 it. The developers have done everything they
6 said they would do in negotiating with us over
7 about an 18-month, two-year period, and we think
8 it will be an improvement for our neighborhood
9 and appreciate your favorable consideration.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
11 Brittney. Come on down, ma'am. Followed
12 by Douglas Gollnick, I think.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Brittney Audibert, 2779
16 This is Cadence Audibert. This is my
17 visual aid. I brought a picture last time, and
18 now I'm bringing her this time.
19 I just want to be pretty quick and blunt.
20 I don't know all of the statistics and
21 everything like that, but I know what I go
22 through every day, so . . .
23 My husband Craig and I -- my husband Craig
24 Audibert and I moved from California, where our
25 neighborhood was filled with great people, but
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1 it became too busy.
2 everything like that. I told him my story about
3 growing up in this neighborhood, slow, you know,
4 my family being built there. We have four
5 generations. She's four. And I just want to
6 let you know that we love our neighborhood, and
7 I don't want -- I like how simple it is and how
8 it isn't busy with traffic.
9 And since I've been back, it's -- we live
10 at the very end of
11 turnarounds twice, maybe three times more since
12 I've been back, and -- I mean, I rode my bike to
13 the park,
14 dogs when I was young. I was able to ride my
15 bike to
16 think that will be possible if this -- this is
17 going to -- you know, if River Oaks is going to
18 stay open.
19 I think that River Oaks should -- I mean, I
20 keep on hearing, you know, in the past
21 River Oaks Road has tried to be closed, but, you
22 know, now it's a new day. You know, it's a new
23 time.
And I think that River
24 definitely be considered to be closed.
25 And I just want to let you know that I'm
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1 coming here as a concerned parent for the safety
2 of my child and for my brother and sister also,
3 who are 18 and living and driving and -- that
4 area they know.
5 So that's pretty much it. Thank you for
6 your time.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, great visual aid.
8 MS. AUDIBERT: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN:
10 Mott.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is
13 Gollnick. I am a member of the San Marco
14 Preservation Society. And so when you are
15 interested in hearing my remarks, let me know.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
17 Gordon Mott.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm also a member of
19 San Marco.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
21 Brown Whatley Law.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 Whatley Law,
25
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1 I'm here to speak to you on my behalf, and
2 I'd like to say that, as the grandson of one of
3 the developers of our neighborhood, it is unique
4 and there's nothing like anything else in this
5 country, and it certainly is unique to
6
7 responsibility to protect the children and the
8 elderly that live in the neighborhood,
9 especially on River
10 That said, in evaluating whether a proposed
11 PUD is externally compatible, you are required
12 to evaluate whether the PUD will have any
13 avoidable or undue adverse impact on existing
14 uses.
15 I submit that a PUD will have a very
16 significant adverse impact on the traffic on
17 River
18 values, preservation of historically-qualified
19 homes, and the entire surrounding residential
20 neighborhood.
21 The language that I've read of the
22 ordinance is important to put the analysis in
23 proper perspective. In rezoning, the question
24 is not whether the traffic generated by the
25 requested zoning change will require roadway
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1 improvements or the degree to which a specific
2 change in a site plan will reduce the impact.
3 The question that must be answered by ordinance
4 is whether the PUD will have any avoidable or
5 undue adverse impact.
6 By your own concurrency plan, table 1,
7 trip generation, the way I read it and the way I
8 understand it, it looks like there's between
9 21,698 and 8,496 trips generated each day by
10 this PUD build-out. I'm not sure where the
11 numbers come from, but these look like real
12 numbers to me.
13 Between 6.72 and 10.21 percent of that
14 traffic is projected to travel River Oaks,
15 between
16 Assuming most traffic occurs between 6 a.m.
17 and midnight, that would mean anywhere between
18 one additional car every two minutes to two
19 additional cars per minute on this neighborhood
20 street.
21 There again, that's math that I think is
22 reality.
23 This is clearly a major impact on a
24 neighborhood, clearly a major impact.
25 Off-site improvements contemplated by the
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1 applicant as part of this development will
2 further exacerbate the problem. These include
3 railroad grade crossing improvements, River Oaks
4 realignment, the right-of-way grants, and new
5 signalization.
6 The staff is clearly aware of these
7 improvements contemplated as part of this
8 development but failed to mention or analyze the
9 impact of the adjacent residential street and
10 neighborhood.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, your time is up.
12 MR. LAW: Thank you for your time.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 Mr. Clark, do you have a question for --
15 MR. CLARK: No. I have a general
16 statement.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
18 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 I just want to reiterate as we get through
20 this -- and I waited till I heard from three or
21 four people. I understand how adamant everybody
22 is about River
23 the methodology behind this is to stand up and
24 tell us new evidence and new things that we
25 haven't already heard. We clearly understand
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1 the concern on River
2 from everybody that stood up so far, but we need
3 to hear new things and other concerns that you
4 have. We understand that one.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Clark.
6 Karen Mattison, followed by Andrew Dickson.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Karen
9 Mattison. I live at
10 I'm here today to represent River Oaks
11 Community Club. That's who I'm representing.
12 And I won't go into all the statistics
13 about the traffic information you've heard, but
14 one of the things that I must remind everyone
15 here today and the public is that once the
16 traffic hits this road -- and we're guessing
17 now. This is a traffic model utilized by FDOT,
18 you know, estimating, which is guesstimating, to
19 me, that this traffic will occur on River Oaks
20 Road.
21 What will happen is -- there's another
22 thing called level of service for roads. DOT
23 follows it and the City follows it. Level of
24 service is how these roads are graded. And once
25 it goes from being one kind of road at a certain
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1 level, it then becomes another.
2 River Oaks Road is a neighborhood road, and
3 your traffic engineering folks will tell you
4 that. And it is further compounded by the fact
5 that on their on-site review of
6 traffic-generated trips within the city,
7 River
8 chart.
9 It is a neighborhood road specifically
10 designed for the people who live in that area.
11 There are three dead-end roads. We have no
12 other way to go.
13 What will happen, Mr. Harden, is even
14 though you have no plans to make that a
15 four-lane road, you don't have any choice, we
16 don't have any choice. When that traffic hits
17 it and it no longer is functioning at a specific
18 level of service, it is mandated by law that
19 that road is then four-laned, and that will
20 simply destroy our neighborhood. And I've
21 seen it happen and try to happen in
22 Riverside/Avondale.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
25 Mr. Dickson, followed by Jay Robinson.
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Andrew Dickson. I
3 live at 1641 River
4 stretch that we're talking about.
5 I work with the River Oaks Community Club,
6 and I just want to second everything
7 Ms. Mattison said, and also add the fact that I
8 believe in
9 expressly said that residential streets should
10 not be used for cut-through traffic, you know,
11 contingent upon new development. So I'd like to
12 remind you of that.
13 I enthusiastically support the
14 redevelopment of
15 enthusiastically support transit-oriented
16 development. I just want to express to you how
17 bewildering it's been as a resident to see all
18 the contradictions inside the planned unit
19 development application, the claim of TOD but no
20 commitment from JTA, JTA's own studies that show
21 that Emerson would be a more desirable location
22 for a transit station. All this leads me to
23 believe that we're putting the cart before the
24 horse here with the building of
25 as a TOD.
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1 You know, you -- you've heard everything
2 about the increase in traffic. I don't know --
3 I don't really understand the numbers. I've
4 been hearing two sets, one from Planning, one
5 from Mr. Harden. I do know that any new
6 development will add traffic to our road,
7 especially when it's found that our road is the
8 most convenient shortcut between
9 and
10 and
11 So I beg you, really, to respect the
12 Planning Commission's recommendation to
13 eliminate access to River
14 Summerall Avenue, I encourage you to include the
15 staff report's conditions as well, and I finally
16 intrigue you to include the rest of San Marco
17 Preservation Society's conditions, in essence or
18 in full, in the PUD application because I
19 believe it's the only way to assure the
20 long-term health of River
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
24 Jay Robinson, followed by --
25 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Jay Robinson, 1573
3 I am a past member of San Marco
4 Preservation Society, and I have sent in my
5 check to rejoin, but they haven't cashed my
6 check yet.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, sir. Fair
8 enough. Fair enough.
9 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you.
10 We'd also strongly support the
11 redevelopment of the project along Philips
12 Highway. However, we believe it should be done
13 in -- consistent with the 2010 Comprehensive
14 Plan, which we believe calls for a gradual
15 transition of use and intensity. And from --
16 and it should not have any avoidable or undue
17 adverse impact on the surrounding usage.
18 If you will -- and I'm sure you've seen
19 this already, but if -- on page 16 of your staff
20 report it shows a picture of the property and it
21 shows the right-of-way next to the railroad, and
22 I'm sure you're aware that the houses next to
23 that right-of-way are single-family homes and
24 they run about 125 feet deep to
25 Now, these lots are currently single-family
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1 homes and they're zoned CO, not CCG-1 or -2 as
2 described in the application for the total
3 project.
4 Now, these lots serve as a zoning
5 transitional [sic], you know, to -- before you
6 get to the intense use of the property, which is
7 appropriate. As such, the height limit for CO
8 property is 35 feet.
9 Now, I think can you increase that to 45
10 with an administration [sic] deviation, but
11 they're asking for 75 feet, or they at least
12 have put 75 feet in their application, and just
13 5 feet from the property.
14 Now, our thought is that we should at least
15 have specifically specified in the application
16 that the maximum height should be 45 feet. I
17 mean, it needs to be spelled out that you can't
18 go to 75 feet.
19 Now, you can also -- I don't know if you've
20 heard this before, but if you've been along that
21 area when the train goes by, the noise is pretty
22 incredible. Now, we live pretty close to
23 there. And if you have buildings that are
24 relatively tall and they're right next to
25 railroad tracks, the noise reverberation is
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1 going to be unbelievable, and it just can't
2 happen. If there's going to be anything built
3 over there, it has to be a transition away from
4 the edge of the property and it has to be low
5 rise.
6 And so, from that standpoint, we recommend
7 that you just not approve this application.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
10 And thank you for talking about something
11 other than the traffic on River
12 Missie Sarra.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm a member of the
14 San Marco Preservation Society.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
16 Christine Sasser.
17 MS. SASSER: I'm a member.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Carol Garner.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm a member, but they
21 haven't cashed my check yet either.
22 I'm actually speaking -- I'm Carol Garner
23 from 1713 River
24 practitioner for the Department of Health and
25 for the JSO, so it's my job to speak about
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1 crime, so I won't talk about River
2 From the beginning, the descriptions and
3 the drawings and the presentations to the public
4 from this developer have been inconsistent. The
5 Zone 3 police were under the understanding that
6 the
7 high-end condominium complex. They raised
8 questions about this because they said Zone 3
9 already has 40 percent apartments and, according
10 to their statistics, 3.8 times as many crimes
11 occur in apartment complexes as other residences
12 in
13 they might have been misinformed that way.
14 I also spoke to the president and the
15 historian from the
16 action group, and they relayed that their
17 understanding was that this also was going to be
18 a high-end condominium complex that they were
19 supportive of, but then they also had a concern
20 for some brethren of theirs and -- concerning
21 a -- especially Pastor Brian Campbell of the
22
23 there was potential danger on
24 regarding his parishioners and children crossing
25 the street because their parking lot is across
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1 the street on
2 also ask that the only in and out -- I mean,
3 entrance and exit from this complex be on
5 which will then lead into
6 I also brought a handout from a cartoon I
7 saw Saturday, which is a little -- if you would
8 hand -- I made enough copies for everyone.
9 Because it was a little disheartening, I
10 was extremely in despair -- the first time I
11 came here, it was my first time in front of the
12 City Council, then I had a glimmer of hope, and
13 now thank you for considering closing off River
15 that this is maybe what we were up against, and
16 I'll let the cartoon speak to [sic] itself.
17 Thank you very much for listening to my
18 presentation.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
20 MS. GARNER: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Philip Elson.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you very much,
24 Chairman Graham.
25 Councilman Shad, thank you very much as
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1 well for supporting the initiative as it relates
2 to the traffic on River
3 I'm not going to talk about the traffic,
4 but that's why -- that's one of the reasons I'm
5 here.
6 I live on 1608 River
7 and three children, we've lived there for
8 15 years. This is our very first house, and
9 there's -- and I'm 100 percent for the
10 redevelopment of this site.
11 I mean, this is what I do for a living. I
12 work in brownfields redevelopment. I worked on
13 LaVilla 15 years ago. I am the Chair of the
14 Enterprise Empowerment Zone for the City of
15
16 with Lad Daniels trying to make brownfields
17 redevelopment and projects of this nature work,
18 so it's very ironic that I'm even here today
19 kind of speaking on behalf of this project.
20 We handed out a little brochure, and I'm
21 just going to -- instead of talking, I'm just
22 going to take you through this. I'd like you to
23 take a look at this because Alison spent a whole
24 lot of time putting this together, and she
25 wasn't able to speak, and I am speaking on
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1 behalf of the River Oaks Community Club.
2 If you look at the very first page, you can
3 get a -- kind of a bird's-eye view of the
4 development on page 2, and this little area up
5 to the left-hand corner is our community.
6 That's River Oaks -- the River Oaks community.
7 We've been here for over 70 years. There's
8 75 homes in this area, about an average of
9 1,600 square foot in size.
10 And you can look at some of the
11 predevelopment, post
12 development pictures here on River
14 beautiful little bungalows. It's a
15 working-class neighborhood in San Marco.
16 So you can -- you know, once we heard about
17 this -- and I went and met with Mr. Cissel back
18 in July and started asking of -- what types of
19 impacts is this going to have on our
20 neighborhood. I was basically told none;
21 there's not going to be any impacts to your
22 road; I have no plans to do any type of
23 improvements to it; and, if so, the City of
24
25 Another -- if you look at page 9, the big
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1 aerial view, this is -- this development is
2 being done in the context of something that's
3 much bigger that's getting ready to go on in
4 this area. And, again, it's something that's
5 very important, but what concerned me was this
6 little -- and I asked Steve about this many
7 times -- the red line where River
8 you can see the blue arrow to it, where it hooks
9 up, River Oaks,
10 railroad tracks to
11 continues on over into
12 And I've asked him, well, you don't have
13 plans? Why is it on your map? This looks like
14 you're going to turn my little neighborhood,
15 this little connector road that I live on,
16 into -- a neighborhood road into a connector.
17 So I've asked that many times, and I
18 haven't -- I was told that that was the drainage
19 line by Mr. Cissel. This is the divide between
20
21 Mr. Harden -- the next page, on 10, this is
22 going to scare the bejeebers out of us and tell
23 us that this is the -- this is what could be
24 here with the current zoning.
25 Build it, build an office park, see if
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1 that's something that's going to work in this
2 area. We're literally all for that.
3 And it really is the residential. Nine
4 hundred units --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir.
6 MR. ELSON: -- of residential in this
7 neighborhood is really what is scaring
8 everybody.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Your time is up.
10 MR. ELSON: All right. Well, I really hope
11 that you spend a little bit of time with this.
12 Look in the back of this document --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir.
14 MR. ELSON: -- look at the pictures, and I
15 think you'll get a good feel for what we're
16 concerned about and what we're worried about
17 losing.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 Guy Beard.
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: San Marco.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
22 Wendy LaPrade.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: San Marco Preservation.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
25 Tim Franklin, I can't believe you filled
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1 out a card.
2 Shane Sheffield.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
5 My name is Shane Sheffield. I'm -- I live
6 at
7 You know, I have a -- kids in school, River
8 Oaks -- I mean, at
9 School. I went to the ACE meeting, which is the
10 school study on overcrowding or undercrowding of
11 schools and trying to figure out the financial
12 viability of how we fund our schools.
13 This does not -- has not taken into account
14 the concurrency. I'm not an expert on this, but
15 all I know is that -- that no impact of the
16 schools is being taken into account with this
17 application.
18 And now I'm going to speak as a taxpayer.
19 I just want to be clear, this is not a
20 transportation-oriented development, so it's a
21 joke to keep referring to it as that. It is
22 not. There is no one here from JTA to say that
23 they support it or they're in favor of it. And
24 our history in our community of mass transit is
25 a -- is really kind of funny.
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1 I was doing a little bit of research last
2 night. And, you know, the Skyway was built with
3 $200 million. I thought it was like
4 $20 million. But $200 million. At -- at
5 current ridership of 1,700 people a week and
6 funding it for -- at $3-and-a-half million a
7 year, it generates $500,000 a year in revenue.
8 I think I figured out by the year of 2385 it
9 might actually pay for itself.
10 You know, I am not in favor of
11 transportation-oriented developments because I
12 think it's -- this is
13 People are not -- people own cars. They're not
14 going to ride mass transit. I mean, the Skyway
15 is the ultimate bridge to nowhere.
16 And, you know, let's just be clear, this is
17 not a transportation-oriented development, so I
18 don't know why we're throwing hard code that's
19 been planned. We're just throwing the planning
20 away, and -- and I just -- as a taxpayer and a
21 person who loves this city, I would hate to see
22 us just trash our code and our planning for
23 something that is not what it's being called.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
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1 George Foote.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: San Marco Preservation.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 George Jaghab.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry, sir, if I butchered
7 your name.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's all right.
9 My name is George Jaghab. I live at 10859
10
12 I am very, very symp- -- well, first, let
13 me just -- I mean, honestly say I'm very
14 supportive of this project, but I am also very
15 concerned and sympathetic for the concerns of
16 the members and residents -- members of the
17 San Marco Preservation Society and residents of
18 the San Marco area.
19 I will tell you from a business owner's
20 perspective, the crime that goes on during the
21 day just really is very taxing on many of the
22 business owners. I could -- I have even sensed
23 more crime to the area ever since my good
24 neighbor David Hamm, Jerry Hamm Chevrolet moved
25 up the road because there's no activity in the
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1 area. All you're left with is abandoned
2 buildings and businesses and abandoned
3 storefronts. Drug use is open, prostitution is
4 open, so any vibrant improvement to the area is
5 very much welcomed.
6 I can tell you other business owners in the
7 area are enthusiastic about it. I hope, with
8 your collective wisdom, you can make business
9 owners happy and meet the concerns of residents
10 of San Marco.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
13 Bill Argus.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a visual that I
16 want to put, I think, on the --
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. We can do that for
18 you.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Bill Argus. I
20 live at
21 I'm just off of River Oaks, and I'm
22 concerned about the density that the PUD has at
23 this time.
24 I wanted to share with you, just for the
25 record, that there are some residential homes
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1 that abut the property, and that's what I'm --
2 I'm trying to show here.
3 The -- visual aid number 1, it's a -- it's
4 at
5 developer's property. There's two shots of
6 that.
7 The next sheet. These are just, you know,
8 regular, middle-class homes.
9 Number 2 is a house along the boundary
10 line, and you can see on the first sheet where
11 they're numbered, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.
12 Number 3 is another nice, middle-class
13 home, and it has a side yard along the
14 boundary. Number 4, it has a side yard along
15 the boundary. And 5 is just nearby number 4.
16 And the point I'm trying to make is, right
17 now, with the -- with the setbacks that are in
18 place, I think you're going to destroy some of
19 the character that I love about San Marco.
20 San Marco houses are relatively spaced
21 apart, uncharacteristically of the new
22 developments around the country, and there's a
23 lot of landscape. It's a friendly
24 neighborhood. It's a neighborhood that I have
25 no problem supporting development, albeit it's
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1 across the railroad tracks. I understand that
2 psychological difference, but I'd love to be
3 able to -- to bridge the gap there, but I think
4 something that is a little bit more generous in
5 the landscape and conducive to the park area and
6 the historical flavor of San Marco would
7 probably be a lot more successful and beneficial
8 to San Marco.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
10 All right. That's the last card that I
11 have. I'm going to go back through the people
12 that were represented.
13 Now, you guys -- put in mind that you guys
14 asked for this to be a quasi-judicial hearing
15 and to be represented by an attorney or
16 everybody would have just been given three
17 minutes to speak as normal.
18 Now, I didn't cut anybody off prior to
19 three minutes. I let everybody speak. I didn't
20 cut anybody off at one minute, but I let
21 everybody speak through the end.
22 If there's anything that you want to add
23 that you haven't heard that was said thus far,
24 come forward. If you felt like everything has
25 already been said, then we'll continue from
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1 there.
2 Rob Smith.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm okay.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
5 Carolyn Hinckley.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm all right.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
8 Alicia [sic] Abernathy, followed
by
9 Gollnick.
10 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Alison Abernathy, and I
12
live at
13 And I don't want to take a lot of your
14 time, but I would like to point -- on page
15 number 25 in the handout that we gave you that
16 says "the other side of the
17 development," we've got a couple of, I think,
18 very important quotes that came out of the
19 Planning Commission meeting about ten days ago.
20 Eddie Johnson, the chairman of the Planning
21 Commission, said quote, No access on River Oaks
22 or Summerall. That way we know we're all
23 covered and we understand what our intent is,
24 and if anybody goes back into the record of what
25 we're trying to do here, they understand the
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1 intent is we don't want any cars leaving this
2 site to the south at all, period, end of story.
3 That quote is followed by one from
4 Mr. Harden, where he said, quote, We're going to
5 accept whatever solution you-all propose.
6 He said that to the Planning Commission,
7 and we hope that he abides by it.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
10
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is
13 Gollnick. I live at
14 I'm here to represent the residents of
15 Brookwood, Lorimier, and Dunsford Roads, which
16 comprise approximately 150 families.
17 We'd like to register a concern about
18 increased traffic on our residential roads.
19 Today Lorimier, Brookwood, and Dunsford Roads
20 are used as -- pardon me -- are used as
21 cut-throughs for people who want to drive
22 between
24 Adding 900 new families and their cars to
25 the area would create a considerable danger to
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1 traffic -- or to pets, children, and pedestrians
2 in our neighborhood streets.
3 Unlike River Oaks, we do not have sidewalks
4 to separate us from the cars that drive
5 sometimes at excessive speeds through our
6 neighborhood.
7 We request that traffic studies be
8 conducted in the area, also extend to Lorimier,
9 Brookwood, and Dunsford Roads.
10 We understand that we will experience some
11 increase in traffic; however, limiting the
12 residential component of this development to a
13 significantly smaller number of units would help
14 us to maintain a safe and healthy environment
15 for our families, and the potential closure of
16 River
17 traffic that's going to be cutting through our
18 neighborhood streets.
19 We love our homes, and we would think of
20 living nowhere else in
21 improvement along this stretch of Philips
22 Highway that has gone too long without
23 attention. We want to be sure that -- the right
24 type of improvement that benefits us all, both
25 in the new and existing residences.
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1 There's no reason to damage -- there's no
2 reason to cause damage to a well-established
3 community for the sake of installing a new one.
4 Surely a solution that is beneficial can be
5 achieved for all of us.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
8 Gordon Mott.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Gordon Mott, 1567
12 Very briefly, and I'll make this very brief
13 because no one's mentioned the issue of parking
14 and variance from -- from code that's being
15 requested.
16 The project is requesting that the -- that
17 they be granted a reduction of -- to one-half of
18 the requirements under residential and one-half
19 of the requirements under commercial, and I
20 would point out specifically that the
21 Development Services Division of the Planning
22 Department has specifically recommended that
23 this not be granted. I believe that's included
24 in the material that you have before you, so I
25 would only ask that the City codes be respected
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1 with respect to parking in this project.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
4 Missie Sarra.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm on the board, so I'm
6 represented.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, ma'am.
8 Christine Sasser.
9 (Ms. Sasser approaches the podium.)
10 MS. SASSER: Good evening.
11 My name is Christine Sasser. I live at 951
13 And this is a public hearing, and I am here
14 as part of the public. My husband Doug and I
15 are going to be represented by these comments.
16 We do not support -- first of all, we support
17 revitalization on
18 it to be done according to code.
19 And I just wanted to remind everyone -- a
20 lot of what's been said I support, but just
21 remember Part 14 of the zoning code was amended
22 by the City Council in 2007, and that created a
23 TOD zoning category.
24 Now, the PUD -- as, you know, everyone has
25 said, this is not a TOD. However, the Planning
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1 Department staff report says, and I quote, The
3 transit-oriented development.
4 And, you know, Mr. Harden says that the
5 Planning Department has clearly vetted this
6 issue. Well, if that's so, the PUD -- I mean,
7 how can they explain, then, that the PUD has
8 granted reductions in parking, increased
9 density, and reductions in landscaping, which
10 are clearly given to TODs. And I just want to
11 remind you of that and to please follow the
12 zoning code.
13 This is not a TOD. The JTA memo in your
14 paperwork clearly states that their only
15 commitment is for a bus stop and a bus pull-off
16 lane. JTA has no plans as of right now to put a
17 transit-oriented -- a transit station -- rapid
18 transit station at this location, so please be
19 mindful of that.
20 And if using this TOD concept -- it's not a
21 justification for waivers or for uses or
22 intensities which violate the US-1 Corridor
23 Study, the requirements of the comp plan, and
24 recommendations from the Development Services
25 Division. So please follow your own zoning code
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1 and please consider these recommendations from
2 San Marco.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
5 Guy Beard.
6 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
8 My name is Guy Beard. I live at 2763
10 You know, this whole project is basically
11 been on a "this is going to work" basis. You
12 know, we're going to go in there and we're going
13 to fill these things out. We're going to fill
14 this commercial space up. I haven't heard what
15 if, what if they don't fill it up, what if the
16 commercial property isn't filled up, how long
17 will it be vacant?
18 There's a lot of commercial property on
20 places you can go rent around here. That's the
21 big question. What if this doesn't happen? We
22 give them the zoning that they need and they
23 decide not to build and to sell, who's the
24 second owner of this property going to be?
25 That's the contention that I look at, is, what
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1 if this really doesn't work?
2 You know, the big saying is, build it and
3 they will come. Well, in today's world, that's
4 not necessarily true. So that's -- that's my
5 different view.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. I
7 appreciate it.
8 Wendy LaPrade.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record show she said
11 she's fine.
12 George Foote.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record indicate he's
15 okay.
16 And Barbara Pickett, Puckett.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry, ma'am. I can't see
19 if that's an "I" or a "U."
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
21 My name is Barbara Puckett. I live at
23 And I am the director emeritus of San Marco
24 Preservation. Do I qualify?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You're fine. Go ahead.
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1 MS. PUCKETT: I would like to invite each
2 of you to our neighborhood. I have a feeling
3 that you're not familiar with the area in which
4 you've been asked to make a decision. It's a
5 neighborhood that was built before World War II
6 broke out. My family has lived in the
7 neighborhood since 1938, and I have lived there
8 most of the time myself.
9 The neighborhood was designed with narrow
10 streets, lots 60 feet by 125, lovely brick
11 homes, frame homes, some of them are 1,200
12 square feet up to 2,5-, 3,000 square feet.
13 They're all maintained. And everyone admires
14 San Marco for what we have been able to do, with
15 the help of the City, I might add.
16 We have -- people keep their neighborhoods
17 up, their homes, they keep the trash off the
18 street. If they see something that's going
19 wrong, amidst with a neighbor, they help. We
20 have just helped with a neighbor who died and
21 put on an event after the funeral, and those are
22 neighbors just getting together to aid one
23 another.
24 I really don't think you understand what
25 San Marco is. San Marco is a small
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1 neighborhood. The City bus actually turned at
2 River
3 of the city of
4 So please come visit our neighborhood
5 before you let too much activity and traffic
6 destroy the small streets and small homes.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, are you going to speak
11 on this project?
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Nods head.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: You might as well come on
14 up.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: How you doing?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
17 record, please.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir.
19 My name is Hanif Shakir. My address is
21 I represent the people, but good evening,
22 everybody.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
24 MR. SHAKIR: Yeah, I didn't know I was
25 coming down here. I just -- but anyway, the
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1 biggest problem I have is just getting the
2 people together right now. You know, when the
3 world is -- the world order is confused, so I'm
4 just in that confusion, but I'm not confused.
5 So our resident [sic]. I pray for us.
6 Safety. But just -- just with (inaudible) for
7 me.
8 I do everything right. I support the
9 people, but when I tell y'all, I like to go to
10 Jaguar games, I like to go -- support the
11 children, I like to have money to spend with
12 them sometimes. I like a lot of money because I
13 do a lot of things, so it's my -- and I'm going
14 to make this short. I don't want to speak
15 too -- I'm tired of speaking. I want you to see
16 my action, how I live.
17 But when I go out there with a little
18 money, try to get a ticket -- you know, when the
19 sheriff called me -- what? Yeah, I'll walk with
20 you. Let's go clean the street up. State
21 attorney, Angela, Jay Plotkin, Mr. Shorstein, I
22 know people. I know y'all. But when I need
23 help for a -- $10 or something for a ticket and
24 I can't get it, I'm the god, I'm the Jesus of
25 the world. I can love every race, but I'm going
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1 to make it because I'm very sincere about my
2 education, my self-esteem. I'm going to be
3 healthy, and I know God, and I know what he told
4 me, to keep being vigorous, energetic.
5 So I say this: I'm struggling, but who
6 ain't struggling? So I be wanting to go to the
7 game, but then you ain't -- you know my address,
8 I just told you, but you don't come check on
9 me. But I check on you, your children. I pray
10 for all y'all, all these communities in
11
12 I'm from Duval, but why you let a man of
13 God die? But I ain't going to die because I'm
14 vigorous. I'm -- I got so many words, but this
15 is the key: I want to live and not suffer like
16 the prophets of old. I'm going to live. I'm
17 going to still do what I have to do. I'm just
18 pissed off, but I'm all right.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. And thank
20 you for not talking about the traffic on
21 River
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am.
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Hi.
25 My name is Elizabeth Duff. I reside at
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2 dead-end streets which runs into River Oaks
3 Road.
4 I'm not going to say a lot about traffic,
5 but I just wanted -- this -- these are just two
6 things that nobody mentioned that will affect
7 implications of traffic.
8 We already deal with a lot of congestion at
9 certain times of the day because of the light on
10 River Oaks and Hendricks. It's like the
11 shortest light of the southeast of the United
12 States. I mean, you really have, like, maybe
13 three seconds to get through a green light
14 there. Sometimes the cars can be backed up
15 several blocks there in the afternoon.
16 The other thing is the train. I have sat
17 at the train, waiting for a train to go by, and
18 then having another train show up to come by
19 after the other one just finished, sometimes for
20 20 minutes, and that causes a lot of traffic to
21 back up too.
22 So I just -- when you're thinking about the
23 traffic, just think about the congestion that we
24 already deal with and how it's going to be
25 larger if we should deal with a lot more
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1 traffic.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
4 Now, I don't have any more cards. Is there
5 anybody else that would like to speak or felt
6 like there's something they need to add to the
7 record?
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, come on up.
10 Did you fill out a card?
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I had one before. Does
12 that count?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you -- you already
14 spoke?
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Carol Garner, but I
16 just wanted to present to the City Council a
17 letter from my neighbor, who couldn't be here,
18 so that's --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That's fine, ma'am.
20 We'll add that to the record.
21 MS. GARNER: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 Is there anybody else?
24 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, I'm going to
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1 close the public hearing.
2 Diane, I know your fingers are probably
3 getting a little sore right now. Can you hold
4 on? We have about ten minutes -- I'm sorry,
5 twenty minutes of rebuttal. Hopefully, they're
6 not going to use that much time, but -- if you
7 can hold on through that so we can just go ahead
8 and be done with the public hearing.
9 THE REPORTER: Okay. That's fine.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: First is Mr. Franklin,
11 followed by Mr. Harden.
12 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
13 MR. FRANKLIN: Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
14 I, based on these comments, don't have a
15 whole lot to rebut, if you will.
16 I think that what I would say about the
17 comments is it really shows, number one, a
18 diversity that we have in the neighborhood
19 there. It really shows the brain power that we
20 have in San Marco, some of the probably best
21 professional and service and -- and all
22 different fields live in this neighborhood.
23 The San Marco Preservation Society and its
24 members are not one of your -- well, I'll just
25 say they're probably the best -- one of the
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1 best, if not the best neighborhood action groups
2 out there. They're very involved, they've
3 always been in the forefront of making sure
4 their neighborhood has zoning controls and
5 protections, those sort of the things.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, you're not
7 rebutting right now. You'll get five minutes to
8 conclude, if you'd like.
9 Do you have any rebuttal?
10 MR. FRANKLIN: I was just trying to use
11 some of -- you caught me. I'll wait for
12 rebuttal -- I'll wait for closing.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
14 Mr. Harden.
15 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
16 MR. HARDEN: Thank you.
17 I want to first comment on the complaint of
18 lack of information. In all due respect, I
19 don't criticize anyone for their positions.
20 This PUD is like a hundred other planned
21 unit developments that you've been through. I
22 don't think there's a fair understanding of how
23 detailed the Planning Department requires the
24 information that you provide before you get in
25 the door. And we did that, and that information
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1 was provided, and then, on top of that, we have
2 the set of conditions, on top of that the
3 conditions required by the San Marco
4 Preservation -- not to mention the
5 interrogatories they sent if they wanted
6 information that we want to give them.
7 So I think, in fairness, the process has,
8 in fact, yielded very substantial information.
9 I'm going to go quickly through some of the
10 comments.
11 The internal inconsistencies, I just beg to
12 differ. The Planning Department has reviewed
13 the specific issue. The one that was raised was
14 single-family versus multifamily. Single-family
15 is a listed use in the CCG zoning category.
16 It's listed as a use in the PUD. There is no
17 location on here there's [sic] going to be a
18 single-family development.
19 Potentially, you would put a row of houses
20 along
21 potentially along Mitchell, and those would be
22 single-family and that use. And that's the only
23 reason it's in there. But every single
24 commercial general PUD that's a mixed use
25 includes that language in there, so it's not
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1 something that's intended to concern somebody.
2 The density that Mr. Frazier raised --
3 sixty units per acre is allowable under the CGC
4 zoning category. The Planning Department is
5 limiting us until there's some activity for the
6 mass transit activity. There's no requirement
7 that we do a TOD here, but they required us to
8 do mass transit activity.
9 Don't call it a TOD if you don't want to.
10 Call it what it is. It's a facility to start
11 mass transit activity on
12 there's very detailed requirements for that.
13 Sixty units an acre is what we're allowed
14 under the zoning code. They've limited us to 30
15 until we get up with the transportation
16 activity, and that was a fair request and we
17 agreed to it, but don't think that that's not an
18 allowable use.
19 A lady mentioned level of service capacity
20 on River
21 7 percent currently.
22 A gentleman said he has a problem because
23 of the lack of gradual transition. Right now
24 it's commercial general right up to the houses
25 on both sides of the property and there's one
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1 line along the railroad track. We're changing
2 that. We're actually going to make it into a
3 gradual transition by making it residential. So
4 remember, now it's commercial activity up there
5 and we're the one actually putting that into
6 effect.
7 I'm not sure -- the lady that talked about
8 crime in the neighborhood, I wish she had a fair
9 understanding of what's happening now on Philips
10 Highway. Our goal is to help clean that up.
11 Our goal is to bring in -- and they are high-end
12 units, but that's not the issue. I don't want
13 to suggest that people who live in less
14 expensive houses commit more crime, but we're
15 agreeing to all the
16 activity on that, and so our goal is to not
17 precipitate that.
18 Someone mentioned -- a gentleman mentioned
19 the
20 of the conditions that we agreed to last Friday
21 was putting in a buffer along that location to
22 offset the single-family homes at that location,
23 so we're -- we're agreeable to that.
24 Likewise, the parking reduction. They
25 asked for an increase in parking. The Planning
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1 Department had given us something less. We
2 raised that in -- consistent with that
3 discussion.
4 So almost all of these issues were raised
5 and we responded in the conditions that the --
6 Councilman Shad reduced to writing.
7 The Dunsford, Brookwood, Lorimier activity,
8 those are streets that are parallel, heading
9 south from River
10 River
11 going to go. So I'm not sure what the
12 gentleman's comment was other than maybe -- you
13 know, maybe he's on our position that -- that we
14 want to increase the connectivity, so -- just so
15 you know where those are, those aren't being
16 proposed to shut off. They're off
17 Road.
18 The last thing I want to talk about is the
19 what if, what if -- what if it doesn't happen.
20
I want you to know that
21 putting their money where their mouth is on this
22 project.
23 We're not here to try to poke anybody in
24 the eye from San Marco. We want to be part of
25 that community. The design that we've shown you
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1 is an attempt to be a mixed-use activity on what
2 is clearly a blighted site adjoining the
3 San Marco area.
4 We're not here to try to disturb their way
5 of life. We want to clean up their way of
6 life. We want to be a good neighbor. We tried
7 to anticipate the issues on landscaping and that
8 sort of thing, and even when -- there was a
9 request Friday that we change the landscaping.
10 We agreed to do that.
11 We have an almost $300,000 tree mitigation
12 requirement on top of our landscape
13 requirement. What they said was, we want at
14 least half of that on the site. Well, quite
15 frankly, I think Councilman Jones would
16 prefer -- because it's going to be crowded on
17 there to do it, that we spend it on Philips
18 Highway and spend it buffering
19 agreed to move -- now, that's on top of the
20 landscape requirements. This is our tree
21 mitigation requirements.
22 We want to do everything we can to make
23 this project successful. We want to be part of
24 that community. We don't want to spend 20, 30,
25 $40 million in a blighted area, again, stepping
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1 up to the plate, and have it fail.
2 You know, we're the ones who are willing to
3 do it -- you know, I almost chuckled when
4 Mr. Franklin called it a prime location. If it
5 was so prime, I'm surprised somebody hadn't
6 jumped on it a little quicker, but, you know,
7 it's not a prime location.
8 We're the first guys in the door. We're
9 the guys in the door who are taking the chance
10 to try to clean up
11 anchor. This is the anchor, what's going to
12
happen on
13 You know, if there was additional
14 requirements they wanted --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden, are you closing
16 or are you rebutting?
17 MR. HARDEN: No, I'm rebutting, I thought.
18 But if you feel like I'm closing, I'll sit down.
19 I'm just responding to the comments that
20 they -- there wasn't enough information.
21 We believe there is. If there wasn't, I
22 suspect we would have gotten another set of
23 interrogatories or another list of conditions.
24 We think all of those matters are addressed
25 in there, and we hope that you will approve it
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1 with the Planning Department conditions and the
2 additional conditions that were added on.
3 I'll save my -- if you -- my close for --
4 after Mr. Franklin talks. I won't do mine first
5 and let him come back up. I'll just do mine
6 and --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
8 MR. HARDEN: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, you have five
10 minutes to close.
11 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
12 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 I guess in closing, we would just ask the
14 committee here to put some conditions in this
15 that would guarantee that what Mr. Harden is
16 proposing will come to light and fruition, the
17 "what if" factor.
18 I appreciate the fact that they're going in
19 and investing money here. I'm sure the
20 neighborhood does. They'd love to see this
21 project happen and be a success. But that
22 doesn't change the fact that if it is not a
23 success, that the PUD that you would adopt as
24 it's conditioned right now, even adding the
25 conditions that Mr. Harden I'm guessing is
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1 agreeing to -- I'd ask him if he is, the four or
2 five conditions from, I guess, the -- Friday's
3 meeting with Councilman Shad.
4 It seems to be -- we're happy with some of
5 those. The landscaping, that was one of the
6 issues.
The
7 things, we're happy with those. But we have
8 other bigger issue that aren't taken care of by
9 this, namely, that this is not required to be a
10 mixed-use project. It's not. It could be in
11 the sense that it has to be at least 10 percent
12 commercial, but otherwise it could be a
13 90 percent residential project. That's a small
14 coffee shop and a multifamily apartment
15 complex.
16 Some of the apartment or parking things
17 that Mr. Harden has asked for in terms of
18 deviations or adjustments for off-site parking,
19 those are based on projections of
20 750-square-foot units. There's no requirement
21 that this consist of executive-type-only houses
22 or upper-end, you know, vacation condos, any of
23 those kind of things. These can be two- and
24 three-bedroom units, which will require more
25 parking.
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1 And you go through it, some of the -- some
2 of the speakers spoke to the inconsistencies in
3 this, it speaks to single-family, it speaks to
4 mixed use.
5 Two things Paul said. He used the term
6 "zoning code," and I'm sure my colleague,
7 Mr. Harden, meant to say the "comprehensive
8 plan."
9 The comprehensive plan does allow
10 single-family. The comprehensive plan also
11 allows up to 60 units per acre, or somewhere in
12 there. It's not exactly spelled out exactly
13 what CGC allows, but up to it in a -- in a high
14 density, but that's under the comprehensive
15 plan.
16 The zoning categories that are currently
17 there would not allow this, would not allow
18 single-family uses, yet that's in the list of
19 uses, and those uses and traffic for
20 single-family have not been evaluated.
21 And that's -- you know, again, the -- some
22 of the speakers -- there's no transit-oriented
23 development standards in this. You know, as
24 Mr. Harden said, call it whatever you want, but
25 what they've been calling it is transit-oriented
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1 development.
2 And what they've done -- he said, you know,
3 we submitted detailed information to the
4 Planning Department before we even got in the
5 door. The problem is, that detail-oriented
6 information is not contained in the PUD.
7 These are nice, pretty pictures. They're
8 good development plans. They're great to take
9 to a bank and try to get money or to get
10 investors for a project, but it is not what this
11 PUD is requiring them to build, and that's the
12 disconnect we're having.
13 We're simply saying, an oral promise is not
14 worth the paper it's written on, and you
15 shouldn't want to rely on that in today's market
16 with a substitute developer down the road, a
17 successor developer, or if this project is sold
18 off piecemeal.
19 There are no master maintenance controls
20 here, which is one of the things that's supposed
21 to be in the written description. Who is going
22 to maintain certain amenities? Who's going to
23 maintain some of the infrastructure that's in
24 this thing? How's that going to be taken care
25 of? It's not here. It's supposed to be, but
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1 it's not. So that's really our issue with it
2 all along.
3 We like the pretty pictures we see. We
4 like what they're saying. We like the
5 four-story. They're saying, well, we want 75,
6 but we're only going to go four-story,
7 approximately 45, maybe 50. We're okay with
8 that, but if that's what they're saying they're
9 going to do, why don't you require them to do
10 that. That's the pictures you've looked at.
11 That's the pictures they've presented at the
12 community meetings. That's what they've said
13 they're going to do. That's all we're asking
14 here. For instance, some of the height.
15 So that is really -- that's really our
16 issues with this.
17 And you saw the list of conditions we put
18 in. Those conditions -- getting back to my
19 rebuttal, slash, opening statement,
20 Mr. Graham -- Chair Graham called it.
21 We've got a lot of very intelligent people
22 in the San Marco group who are very committed to
23 their neighborhood and have worked with their
24 councilperson and with staff throughout the
25 years on making sure that neighborhood is really
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1 the crown jewel of
2 Vibrant TND development, it works, and it
3 works because of these people. And they're very
4 bright, very passionate about what they do, and
5 this list of conditions is not a set of -- not a
6 list of crazy conditions, just a, you know, not
7 in my backyard mentality whatsoever. These are
8 very reasonable, very well thought out, and we
9 think ought to be acceptable for a development
10 of this size.
11 Based on what they've told us, these
12 conditions should be acceptable to them because
13 basically all it does is tell them do what you
14 said you were going to do. That's all these
15 conditions -- there's nothing really new or
16 unique with any of them.
17 The big issue, of course, again, River Oaks
18 Road. I think you've heard plenty about that,
19 but, again, that -- that's the issue here.
20 Planning Commission found, after a lot of
21 testimony -- similar hearing, two-hour-and-
22 45-minute hearing, put a condition on there to
23 limit access to River
24 That was based on a lot of testimony from the
25 staff, from transportation, who -- who were
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1 there at that time. That's what they adopted.
2 We'd ask you to keep that in there.
3 And, again, Mr. Harden, at that meeting,
4 said we're going to go along with whatever you
5 come up with. Well, that's what they came up
6 with, and yet today it's, you either get the
7 development or you don't. If we can't have
8 access to River
9 And I submit to you that's not true. This
10 isn't a buyer in downtown
11 not going to build a 20-story, 900-unit hotel
12 there. There's not going to be a 14-unit
13 multifamily -- 14-story multifamily housing
14 there. Those things are not viable and aren't
15 going to happen.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin, your five
17 minutes have surpassed.
18 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Thank you.
19 Can I have ten seconds to just wrap it up?
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
21 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay. Those things aren't
22 going to happen. What could happen is a good
23 TOD-oriented development. We'd like you to put
24 conditions in there to make sure that that's
25 what happens.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I've got a question.
3 I received this package from Ms. Sasser.
4 It's got about 17 conditions at the end. Are
5 you guys satisfied with this development if
6 those 17 conditions go in?
7 Yes or no question.
8 MR. FRANKLIN: I had submitter earlier,
9 Mr. Chair, a -- I believe a condensed version of
10 those seventeen conditions into ten.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
12 MR. FRANKLIN: Those are the final
13 San Marco Preservation Society conditions. We
14 think they're an improvement. We think they're
15 actually better than --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So --
17 MR. FRANKLIN: So with those --
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Those ten conditions.
19 MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir.
20 And I would -- I'd just point out too, I
21 think at least -- the landscaping portion --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Your time is over.
23 MR. FRANKLIN: Well, just answering your
24 question. We're -- I think a couple of them are
25 already off the table, the developer has
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1 accepted them, so --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
3 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden.
5 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden.
7 MR. HARDEN: I mean, I think it's clear
8 now, and I -- it's been that way for a while,
9 that the issue is the conditions. We think the
10 Planning Department conditions are sufficient.
11 To respond to the specific question, as --
12 as you said, at Planning Commission it was 14,
13 today it was 17, an hour before you started it
14 was 10 conditions. Every one of those items is
15 addressed in the condition list that Ms. Eller
16 came up with from our meeting Friday in the
17 Planning Department, so they would be
18 redundant.
19 And I'm going to go quickly through them,
20 but the clarity issue they asked for is not to
21 have inconsistency between the site plan and the
22 written description, and we agreed that we'll
23 substantially comply with the written
24 description.
25 They asked that we comply with the
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1
2 multifamily housing within the PUD will comply
3 with the
4 Safety and Stability Committee.
5 Likewise, that they owner and management
6 will comply with the
7 crime free -- these are all things they asked
8 for that we put in there.
9 With regard to parking, we were at
10 1.2 -- .25. They asked -- I think Councilman
11 Shad said let's go to 1.33.
12 There was a question about the commercial.
13 There was an issue. We raised that number from
14 what the Planning Department asked us to do.
15 The phasing requires that we develop in the
16 first phase residential -- excuse me -- retail
17 activity. That's what's going to be on the
18 bottom. That's a requirement of one of those
19 conditions.
20 The additional height limitation, there was
21 a request that within the first 100 feet --
22 that's the feet -- you've got
23 you've got a 150-foot railroad, and then you've
24 got a 100-foot area, and then off that 100 feet
25 we agreed to lower the heights down to 53 feet,
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1 which was three stories. Tonight they're saying
2 45 feet. And that won't kill the project, you
3 know, but, you know, we keep giving and giving,
4 I think, and -- we think what we did Friday was
5 a fair compromise.
6 The recreation, they said that we'll comply
7 with the comp plan. We put that in there.
8 We'll comply with the 150 square foot.
9 The landscaping, you already heard that
10 we'll put 50 percent of the tree mitigation on
11 site. We think it's fair to put it some other
12 place.
13 I -- you know, I said this a little bit in
14 the rebuttal. And, honest to goodness,
15 wants to be a good neighbor here. They are
16 doing a lot of ground-breaking activity on
18 neighborhood. They don't want to make anybody
19 angry next door to them.
20 You know, this is a project that -- we've
21 got to rent out the units. My guess is it's
22 going to be the children of people who live in
23 San Marco or people in San Marco who are
24 downsizing that are going to live in these
25 units.
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1 I suspect for the retail activity that's
2 going to be below it, other than our tenants, if
3 you look around and see where the activity is
4 going to come from, that's the target market.
5 But this area is not a prime location now.
6 It's an area that needs a lot of help and a lot
7 of cleaning up. We are putting some very
8 substantial conditions on it. We need to be
9 able to have some flexibility, although it's
10 pretty specific, we think, by the written
11 conditions.
12 We would respectfully request that you
13 approve the application with the Planning
14 Department conditions, not the limitation of
15
access to River
16 it's ten peak-hour trips -- and those seven -- I
17 think there are nine. One, two, three, four,
18 five, six, seven -- eight conditions that
19 Ms. Eller came out of with in the meeting on
20 Friday.
21 We think that answers all -- well, we know
22 that answers every one of the questions that's
23 raised in both the 17 conditions and the issues
24 raised in the report, and we think that
25 sufficiently allows
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1 be done, that's clean up this area.
2 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
4 Okay. We are going to take a break because
5 our court reporter needs to rest her hands. And
6 while we take that break, we're probably going
7 to take a dinner break, so we're going to
8 probably take about a good 30, 35 minutes.
9 I have 7:35 here. I guess we'll come back
10 at 8:10.
11 I don't know if Mr. Shad wanted to say a
12 word or two because some of these people may not
13 still be here when we come back --
14 MR. SHAD: No.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: -- or if you just want to
16 wait till we come back.
17 MR. SHAD: (Shakes head.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I would ask that
19 nobody come into the Green Room because we don't
20 need any more testimony. But, like I said,
21 we'll start back up again at 8:10.
22 Thank you.
23 (Brief recess.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're ready to get
25 started here.
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1 MR. WEBB: Planning Department -- let's
2 just go ahead and move the amendment.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: It got moved.
4 Anybody second it?
5 MR. JOOST: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's hear the amendment
7 that's been agreed upon by both sides so far and
8 we'll make sure that that gets into the record,
9 and then we'll just take it from there one at a
10 time.
11 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, the amendment,
12 again:
13 "The development shall be subject to the
14 original legal description dated June 23rd,
15 2008."
16 "The development shall be subject to the
17 revised written description dated September 17,
18 2008."
19 Condition 3, "The development shall be
20 subject to the revised site plan dated
21 September 17, 2008."
22 Four, "The development shall be subject to
23 the review and approval of the Development
24 Services Division, pursuant to the memorandum
25 dated September 8, 2008, except comment 3 in the
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1 FDOT memorandum dated July 22nd, 2008, attached,
2 or as otherwise approved by FDOT and the
3 Planning and Development Department."
4 Five, "At the time of verification of
5 substantial compliance, a phasing schedule shall
6 be provided to the Planning and Development
7 Department."
8 Six -- this is the revised condition that
9 the staff is recommending at this time in lieu
10 of the Planning Commission condition.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
12 MR. KELLY: Six, "Prior to any residential
13 development beyond 30 units an acre, an enhanced
14 mass transit station with amenities shall be
15 completed in a manner that is consistent with
16 and supports long-range planning options,
17 including a potential BRT, bus rapid transit,
18 commuter or other transit modes identified by
19 the JTA.
20 "The enhanced transit station, per the
21 attached Exhibit A, will accommodate a current
22 fixed route bus to BRT services and include two
23 kiosks providing passenger and system
24 information, route maps, ticketing via machine,
25 real time schedules, next bus arriving
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1 information, lighting, music, cooling fans,
2 benches.
3 "The station will be oriented to allow
4 waiting passengers convenient access to retail
5 services."
6 Condition 7, "The roundabouts shall contain
7 a fountain feature and/or piece of public art."
8 Eight, the condition reads, "The applicant
9 shall provide at least one dedicated parking
10 space per multifamily dwelling unit plus one
11 guest space per parking space per three
12 multifamily dwelling units, or a minimum" -- and
13 I believe this is "1.33 spaces per dwelling
14 unit."
15 Condition 9, "Sidewalks along
16 Square Boulevard shall be no less than eight
17 feet in width."
18 Condition 10, "At the time of verification
19 of substantial compliance, the applicant will
20 provide a pedestrian plan that shows street
21 trees, street furniture along
22 Boulevard, and perimeter landscaping areas
23 fronting
24 Eleven, "All entry signage shall be
25 architecturally consistent, of a monument style,
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1 and be limited to 200 square feet per sign
2 face."
3 Twelve, "Signage that advertises
4 multifamily uses shall be nonilluminated or
5 externally illuminated except on
6 or
7 internally illuminated."
8 Condition 13, as adopted at the Planning
9 Commission meeting last Thursday, "There shall
10 be no access from the subject property to and
11 from
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shad.
13 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
14 I thought it might make sense to add the
15 conditions mutually agreed upon at the
16 referenced Friday meeting between the applicant
17 and the preservation society and myself.
18 I would note that -- I don't mean to say
19 that these go to the extent that the
20 preservation society wanted them to, but these
21 are -- I have one, two, three, four, five,
22 six -- seven conditions which were handed out,
23 one of which was already referenced in the
24 parking, from one and a quarter to 1.33.
25 But would now be the appropriate time to
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1 read these in and make it all into one amendment
2 since these are mutually agreed upon?
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, let's do the Planning
4 Department's first and get the approval, yes or
5 no, from the applicant. Then we'll do yours and
6 get his yes or no, and we'll combine those.
7 And then whenever the committees want to do
8 anything one way or the other, then we'll play
9 that game.
10 MR. SHAD: Okay.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden.
12 MR. HARDEN: You're asking about my
13 relationship with those conditions?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
15 MR. HARDEN: We're fine with the first 12.
16 Obviously, the one -- the Planning
17 Commission condition we're not agreeable to.
18 The Planning Department's 12 conditions we are
19 agreeable to.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: So you're agreeable with
21 everything except for closing off access to
22 River
23 MR. HARDEN: That's correct.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So let's --
25 The amendment that's in front of us is 13,
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1 and he's not happy -- he's only happy with 12 of
2 them.
3
4 committee --
5 I'm sorry. Let's just go ahead and approve
6 the 13 -- I'm sorry. Let's go ahead and approve
7 the 12, and then we'll figure out from there if
8 someone wants to add it or if they're sufficient
9 with it.
10 Mr. Harden, the record shows that you're
11 happy with the first 12.
12 MR. HARDEN: I'm agreeable to the first 12,
13 yes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any other discussion
15 on those first 12?
16 On the first 12?
17 MR. JOOST: Yes.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Joost.
19 MR. JOOST: Is there an actual list we can
20 look at?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
22 MR. JOOST: I've got so many papers in
23 front.
24 Okay. I've got 10 on this one.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: That's -- this list they
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1 added the one space for multifamily, one
2 visitor's space for three units.
3 MR. SHAD: Next page.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: No, he had the right page.
5 And they had --
6 MR. SHAD: He's reading the wrong ones.
7 That's the San Marco.
8 MR. JOOST: That's why I'm confused. I've
9 got so many lists in front of me, I'm not
10 sure --
11 MR. SHAD: It's in your book.
12 MR. HARDEN: He just read the ones off the
13 Planning Department report as amended.
14 MR. JOOST: Off this list (indicating)?
15 MR. SHAD: In your yellow book.
16 MR. JOOST: Stand by.
17 MS. ELLER: It's the memorandum from the
18 Planning Department --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Page 12.
20 MS. ELLER: -- dated September 25th, 2008.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Page 12.
22 MR. JOOST: I got it. Thank you.
23 Should we make copies for all the committee
24 members or --
25 MS. ELLER: Everybody's got it.
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1 MR. JOOST: Okay. Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions about
3 the 12?
4 Ms. Eller.
5 MS. ELLER: Mr. Chairman, if it pleases the
6 committee, I can take all of the different
7 conditions that you discuss from here on out and
8 roll them into one document, even if you'd like
9 to approve them separately by a separate vote.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: That is the plan.
11 Okay. We're on the first 12. We will call
12 this the Planning Department's amendment.
13 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved the first amendment.
19 Mr. Shad.
20 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
21 I had a meeting on Friday and left that
22 meeting with a number of items that were agreed
23 upon. I would like to comment for a moment.
24 There was some discussion -- some comments about
25 the number of amendments that the preservation
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1 society had come up with, maybe suggesting that
2 it was, you know, out of line or there were too
3 many of them.
4 And I would just say that I -- you know,
5 they've worked hard bringing these lists
6 together. It has been a moving target, and I
7 think everyone has done a real good job trying
8 to get to where we are now. I wanted to make
9 that comment.
10 But in front of us you have a handout that
11 has number 7 through 17. Those were the actual
12 numbers that correspond to the original
13 17 conditions that the preservation society had,
14 but there's a condition -- we'll call it -- what
15 do you want to call these?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Start at one again. This is
17 the Art Shad amendment.
18 MR. SHAD: Okay. Number 1, "The
19 development shall substantially comply with the
20 revised site plan dated September 17th, 2008,
21 and maximum lot coverage shall not exceed
22 80 percent."
23 THE CHAIRMAN: So basically we've already
24 done the development, should not -- it should be
25 the revised description of September 17th,
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1 2008. You just want to say "lot coverage will
2 not exceed 80 percent"?
3 MR. SHAD: And I think "substantially
4 comply" is an important word, to kind of go
5 through it a little bit further. So we just do
6 it the same, exactly how I'm reading it.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. We'll do it.
8 MR. SHAD: Number 2, "Any multifamily
9 housing development within the PUD shall be
10 designed and constructed in accordance with
11 CPTED standards as recommended by the
12
13 Stability Committee."
14 Number 3, "The owner and management of any
15 multifamily apartments developed within the PUD
16 shall participate in the JSO's crime-free
17 multifamily housing program in accordance with
18 the recommendations of the
19 Neighborhood Safety and Stability Committee."
20 The next one, number 4, we took -- was
21 adjusted in the Planning Department's
22 conditions, so we skipped that.
23 So number 4 would then be, "Phase I,
24 residential development, shall be limited to
25 30 units per gross acre of land within the
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1 phase, and Phase I shall contain a minimum of
2 15,000 square feet of retail uses.
3 "No additional residential development
4 shall be permitted until a minimum of 50,000
5 square feet of office/retail has been
6 constructed."
7 Number 5, "No development greater than
8 53 feet shall be permitted within 100 feet of
9 the westerly boundary of the PUD adjacent to the
10 FEC right-of-way."
11 Next, number 6, "Will comply with the
12 comprehensive plan requirement of 150 square
13 feet of open space per residential unit."
14 And lastly, "A minimum of 50 percent of the
15 landscape requirements shall be provided on
16 site; a 10-foot perimeter buffer shall be
17 provided adjacent to single-family residences
18 located along the north property line at the
19 time of verification of substantial compliance;
20 VUAs shall be landscaped in accordance with
21 Part 12."
22 Now, that -- those did not go as far -- and
23 there are going to be other conditions that I
24 would want to talk to you about when we get into
25 discussion that the community would like to see
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1 adopted, but these were what we could agree
2 upon.
3 So let's get the what we could agree upon
4 out, and then we can -- you know, we have plenty
5 to talk about on what the neighborhood would
6 like to see as far as additional amendments that
7 I don't believe the developer at this point has
8 agreed upon.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Franklin. You might as
10 well stay up front.
11 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you hear those
13 conditions that Mr. Shad read?
14 MR. FRANKLIN: I did, Mr. Chairman.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Are they the conditions, as
16 far as you know, that was agreed upon last
17 week?
18 MR. FRANKLIN: They were not agreed upon
19 last week. I mean, I think Councilman Shad said
20 we asked for conditions that would go -- extend
21 behind that.
22 The two
23 believe number 2 and 3, and then the condition
24 about the landscape buffer and the condition
25 about the rec space, those four out of that
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1 list, we could agree to those. Those are fine,
2 but the other ones don't go far enough, in our
3 opinion, and we'd like to see additional --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. But you're not
5 opposed to any. You just want more?
6 MR. FRANKLIN: We'd like to have those.
7 Something is better than nothing, Mr. Chairman.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
9 Mr. Harden.
10 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
11 MR. HARDEN: I don't know what to say. If
12 they don't want them, we don't want them.
13 I'm not sure what the answer to the
14 question was.
15 These are all things that they asked for
16 that we came to a middle ground on, so we're
17 going to start at the middle ground and
18 negotiate.
19 The whole purpose of that meeting was so we
20 don't negotiate on the floor, so -- I'm not sure
21 what he agreed -- the
22 stuff, I don't think anybody has a beef with.
23 That was -- that was the second and third one,
24 and I'm not sure what the other two was that he
25 said he agreed to.
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1 I've got it in front of me. I just don't
2 know which ones Tim says he's agreeable to.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: So my understanding is that
4 the neighborhood is not okay with development --
5 the development shall be -- substantially comply
6 with the reserved [sic] site plan; is that
7 correct? And should not exceed 80 percent lot
8 coverage?
9 Mr. Franklin.
10 MR. FRANKLIN: Just real quick, just to be
11 clear. It would be on this list here
12 (indicating), we would agree with 8, 9, 16, and
13 17. Those four we're okay with, and that was
14 agreed to at the meeting Thursday -- Friday.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So --
16 MR. FRANKLIN: We agree with number 7 that
17 you asked about. We would like to see that the
18 site plan shall control over any inconsistency
19 with the revised written description, so we
20 don't think it goes far enough.
21 It's fine the way it's written, but we'd
22 ask in our conditions -- as you see, since
23 there's not a whole lot in the written
24 description, we wanted to make sure that the
25 site plan controls, where usually it's the
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1 opposite.
2 MR. HARDEN: Are we going to reargue each
3 one of these as we go through them,
4 Mr. Chairman?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: I think there's only three
6 here. So I'm going to try to get to a point,
7 you know, the stuff that you guys agree with, I
8 agree with you. If you thought you want
9 50 percent, they don't think that you want
10 50 percent, then there's no sense even putting
11 it on there. And we can kind of hash it up that
12 way, but --
13 MR. HARDEN: Yeah, that's fine.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Franklin, the first
15 one, what do you want the language to say?
16 MR. FRANKLIN: We would like to say in the
17 revised site plan, "The site plan shall control
18 over any inconsistency with the written
19 description."
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden, yes or no?
21 MR. HARDEN: We're agreeable to the
22 language that
23 have substantial compliance.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: So you're not agreeable to
25 the language he just said?
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1 MR. HARDEN: No.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The next one. Let's
3 go to number 14.
4 MR. HARDEN: Number 14 -- I've got them
5 numbered 7 through 17.
6 I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Number 14 on the
8 list. You said you've got 7 through 17,
9 correct?
10 MR. HARDEN: Yes, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: And he said he wasn't
12 agreeable to 14.
13 MR. HARDEN: Go ahead. I got you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, what did you want
15 number 14 to say? You said it didn't go far
16 enough, Mr. Franklin.
17 MR. FRANKLIN: If you'd look at the
18 condition that we wrote in the San Marco
19 Preservation Society and other lists that you
20 have in front of you -- sorry to burden you with
21 so many lists, but it's marked "phasing."
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
23 MR. FRANKLIN: We'd essentially asked
24 for -- we'd offer up to 300 residential units in
25 Phase I, which is consistent with their Phase I
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1 site plan that's been submitted and the CCAS
2 which showed 281 units. So it's a little bit
3 more, give them a little more flexibility. And
4 we'd ask for 18,000 square feet, which is a
5 reduction from what we'd originally asked for of
6 20-.
7 And then we had -- just tracking that
8 forward, we went a little further in terms of a
9 Phase II and the ability to max out above
10 600 units would be related to a transit shelter
11 being operational.
12 So we're comfortable with that language.
13 We think it phases it more, especially since the
14 written description doesn't contain a phasing
15 schedule.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, what I read here on
17 your phasing schedule, it says a minimum of
18 20,000 square feet, and it says a minimum of
19 180,000 office and retail.
20 MR. HARDEN: I don't know which one you're
21 looking at either, Counsel.
22 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay.
23 MR. HARDEN: I can't keep up with it.
24 Maybe --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's stick with the sheet
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1 that you guys both have in front of you.
2 MR. HARDEN: Yes.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: What are the changes you
4 want to see to that 14, or can you get there
5 without looking at that number 14?
6 MR. FRANKLIN: Well, I'd say that the first
7 sentence, the 30 units and the 15,000 square
8 feet, we could live with that.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
10 MR. FRANKLIN: The first sentence.
11 MR. HARDEN: But it's not within the phase,
12 it's within the project. It's 30 units on the
13 project unless you go to the BRT, and only then
14 do you go above -- I mean, if you want to make
15 that 18, I don't care. I mean, that's --
16 MR. FRANKLIN: Well, I just want to be
17 clear. We did mean that Phase I would be
18 limited to 30 units and that there would be
19 15,000 square feet of retail in Phase I.
20 MR. HARDEN: I thought you said you didn't
21 agree with that.
22 MR. FRANKLIN: We'll, that's what it says.
23 I'm just reading right off that. I'm reading
24 what we --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So you guys aren't
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1 going to be able to agree on 14.
2 MR. WEBB: Point of order.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Bear with me. We've got one
4 left.
5 What's your point of order, Mr. Webb? You
6 called a point of order.
7 MR. WEBB: Yeah, point of order, through
8 the Chair to the General Counsel's Office.
9 I mean, this is a quasi-judicial
10 proceeding. Is it our role as a council to be
11 mediating this dispute between the applicant and
12 the community?
13 MS. ELLER: The role is to determine
14 whether or not these conditions can offset the
15 impacts that you've identified as a group. I
16 believe that the impacts that have been
17 identified are being vetted through this process
18 with mediating between the two sides. So it's
19 your discretion. That's your role.
20 MR. WEBB: I take that as a yes, through
21 the Chair?
22 MS. ELLER: Yes.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Clark.
24 MR. CLARK: Through the Chair, if
25 Councilman Shad will indulge me. Did you --
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1 didn't we start this entire conversation by you
2 saying "I sat down and negotiated with these
3 two," and then they're coming to the table
4 tonight and saying, "No, I changed my mind. We
5 don't want these"?
6 MR. SHAD: That's not correct. I said I
7 came up with these, and I said that I didn't --
8 I made it very clear they didn't go quite as far
9 as the neighborhood wanted.
10 MR. WEBB: Okay.
11 MR. SHAD: These are what I thought -- you
12 know, this is the Art Shad conditions.
13 MR. WEBB: Okay.
14 MR. SHAD: And I think you should just pass
15 these out in totality.
16 Now, we're going to -- after that, I
17 envisioned -- at some point we're going to get
18 into discussion in committee, I imagine. I've
19 got some things to say.
20 But I assumed that after that point, we
21 would then go and reference the latest requests
22 from the community, and there's a few that
23 weren't covered on here. And, as a committee,
24 I've got some comments on them. And then, as a
25 committee, you would decide whether or not they
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1 made sense. I --
2 You know, these weren't super
3 controversial. I kind of -- we -- you know, it
4 wasn't an agreement, but it was what I came up
5 with out of that two-hour meeting.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Jones, did you
7 have any comments about Mr. Shad's seven?
8 MR. JONES: No. I had the same question as
9 Mr. Clark, that I thought that these were agreed
10 upon at the meeting on Friday and reduced to
11 writing by Ms. Eller, and I was surprised we
12 were having this discussion.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Harden, you're
14 okay with Mr. Shad's seven?
15 You're the applicant.
16 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Chairman, it puts me in
17 a -- it's a difficult position. We met and we
18 went halfway, and now we're going to start
19 negotiating from what I agree -- it's just -- I
20 mean, I guess, yeah, these don't kill us. But,
21 you know, now we're going to start over from
22 where we agreed, and it's just not a -- I kind
23 of tend to agree with Mr. Webb. This isn't a
24 negotiating session. This is the proposal, and
25 I think we're --
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1 If they want to start all over, let's start
2 all over. If not -- and I take -- had a
3 different take on Mr. Shad's description of the
4 meeting. Ms. Eller was the scrivener and
5 Councilman Shad went through, Are y'all
6 agreeable? You agree? Yes. Here's what we're
7 agreeable to, and she reduced to writing what
8 she thought everybody was agreeable to, and my
9 recollection was the same as hers.
10 Now, Mr. Franklin wasn't at that meeting.
11 And I understand Councilman Shad's position was
12 that they had some higher -- they had some other
13 things they wanted, but now we're going to start
14 over from where we agreed.
15 So, yes, we agreed to these with regard
16 to -- except 14. It's not gross acres within
17 the phase. It's within the project.
18 Yes, we are agreeable to those seven
19 conditions. That being said, I don't want to
20 start over on everything else as well.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I heard the applicant
22 is okay with the seven that Mr. Shad has.
23 MR. HARDEN: With the one change in 14 that
24 the word -- and Sean can correct me --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: It just strikes the words
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1 "Phase I" -- or the two words "Phase I."
2 MR. HARDEN: Well, it says Phase I shall be
3 limited to 30 -- just take out "within the
4 phase." And then the 15,000 square feet. I do
5 recall, now, that Councilman Shad -- that they
6 were 20- and we suggested 15-, and I'm not sure
7 we actually came to a number on that.
8 But we'll live with Ms. Eller's
9 recommendation -- recollection.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shad.
11 MR. SHAD: The suggestion to start over,
12 you know, is attractive.
13 The --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Was that a deferral?
15 MR. SHAD: No. You know, this -- at some
16 point I have some comments to make. I don't
17 know if now would be the correct time. I guess
18 we just jumped right into the amendments and
19 it's kind of awkward not to be able to make some
20 general comments on the development.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shad. Well, I'm sorry.
22 This is Mr. Jones' district.
23 MR. SHAD: Well, absolutely. I'll defer to
24 Councilman Jones.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I was going to say, I was
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1 going to get Mr. Jones to add his piece. And,
2 Mr. Shad, I'll let you add your piece. And
3 we'll see what the committee wants to do from
4 there.
5 Mr. Jones.
6 MR. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 First of all, let me commend Mr. Shad and
8 the San Marco Preservation organization for
9 working to try to come up with some conditions
10 that would protect their neighborhood.
11 When I first looked at this project, I
12 immediately saw a plus for the neighborhood, the
13 neighborhood being the area that I represent,
14 which is along
15 One, historically, our community has been
16 divided by railroad tracks. You know, if you
17 live on one side of the railroad tracks and
18 that -- and I saw the railroad track as a
19 natural buffer for what was proposed
for
20 Square versus what exists in San Marco. That's
21 a natural buffer. It's a natural buffer.
22 In addition to that, you have
23 also provides a buffer to this development from
24 those folks who live west of the park.
25 All the property -- business owners along
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2 of this. It's an effort to clean up a blighted
3 area. If we do nothing, if we condition this
4 thing to death and the developer goes away, what
5 do we have left? Continued blight, crime,
6 prostitution, you name it.
7 It's a good development. It's not
8 subsidized housing as one person suggested at
9 the council meeting. It's market-rate housing.
10 It's a mixed-use development that I think would
11 be a catalyst for development in that area.
12 I think -- I heard the concern -- the major
13 concerns seemed to be the traffic on River Oaks
14 Road. If the developer is willing to put some
15 traffic calming devices along that road, I think
16 we will satisfy -- maybe not satisfy. That's
17 the wrong term. But we would reduce the impacts
18 of traffic on River
19 Most of the speakers tonight have said they
20 support some type of development along there. I
21 don't want to see us condition this thing to
22 death whereby it goes away.
23 Traffic calming devices on River
24 if the organization supports that, I think will
25 reduce -- substantially reduce the amount of
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1 traffic from this development that uses that
2 road.
3 Additionally, there is -- I think it's
5 north out of the development. So for most of
6 the people who live there, it makes all the
7 sense to use
8 Place --
9 to access the shops in San Marco. It doesn't
10 make sense to go through River
11 The traffic impact, according to our
12 experts, the Planning Department, is very
13 minimum on River
14 traffic-oriented development or not, I think
15 it's a good development and I think the density
16 is being controlled by the planned unit
17 development. Without the planned unit
18 development, as staff has pointed out, we can
19 get a lot higher density development than what
20 is being proposed here.
21 I think it's a good development. I
22 appreciate the concern of the neighbors.
23 There's no intent to diminish the quality of
24 life that the people in San Marco enjoy today.
25 I think with this development, it will enhance
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1 the improvements along
2 great deal of help in that revitalization.
3 I would ask the committee to support it
4 with the amendments that were offered by
5 Mr. Shad and those that you've already approved
6 by the Planning Department.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones, I have a
9 question. My meeting that I had with the
10 applicant, he didn't want to close access to
11 River
12 access so people could not turn out of this
13 development -- turn right down River
14 but could turn in to the development.
15 Now, is that what you meant by traffic
16 calming, or are you talking about something else
17 along the length of River
18 MR. JONES: I was talking about traffic
19 calming devices along River
20 it's --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Speed humps, that sort of
22 stuff?
23 MR. JONES: Speed bumps, speed humps.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
25 MR. JONES: Those type of devices.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I was just trying to
2 get some clarity.
3 MR. JONES: All right. Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shad.
5 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 I've made it clear, both to the applicant
7 and to the planning director recently, that I
8 thought it was a big mistake that this has been
9 spoken about as a TOD or a transit-oriented
10 development. It has really complicated this
11 issue from the beginning.
12 You know, I would encourage you to ignore
13 the fact that this speaks of a future transit
14 station here. And, you know, in fact,
15
16 of our, you know, large geographic footprints
17 and our relatively low density, we just don't
18 have -- and we probably won't for decades and
19 decades and decades have any type of
20 substantial, you know, really healthy mass
21 transit, and to think that this development
22 should be given reduced parking and increased
23 density on that basis is a mistake.
24 Now, this is an urban infill, mixed-used
25 development and it gets some density and some
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1 parking relief just on those aspects alone, and
2 I would -- that's how it needs to be judged.
3 But, gosh, it sure would be nice to go back and
4 do this all over again without having any
5 reference to this transit-oriented development.
6 I don't think it -- particularly think it was
7 done on purpose to confuse the issue, but I
8 think it's hurt the developer, really. I think
9 it's created a lot of confusion and a lot of
10 reasons to oppose this, and that was just a big
11 mistake. And, you know, hindsight is 20/20.
12 But when we go forward and look at the
13 conditions, and especially when it comes to
14 going from the 30 units per acre up to the 900
15 total units -- and the triggering event is going
16 to be -- and you see that the Planning
17 Department increased this language -- the
18 triggering event is going to be having a transit
19 station.
20 Well, you know, what is that? I mean, is
21 it a bus stop? Is it a -- you know, they put
22 some more language in. But before that language
23 was in, the Planning Department put something in
24 front of us and said, Okay. We have these
25 things that we triggered, 50 percent parking
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184
1 reduction, density from 500 to 900 units with
2 the inclusion of a transit station, which really
3 is a glorified bus stop. That's all it would
4 be.
5 And so basically you're saying, if you want
6 to be -- if you're on a corridor and you want to
7 have half the parking and double the density,
8 put a bus stop in and call it a TOD. That's
9 really what we did here, and it was troubling,
10 and I've shared that with the planning director.
11 River Oaks Road access is going to be the
12 important thing facing you this evening. I
13 would support the Planning Commission's
14 recommendation.
15 The phasing mix and -- you know, the
16 residents just want to know that what is being
17 spoken about is what's going to be built, and
18 it's tough to get there by reading the written
19 description and the site plan and in the
20 report. I mean, we can, you know, take
21 someone's word for it, but, you know, we want to
22 have it in writing.
23 And the phasing schedule certainly could
24 use some help, and I think -- I guess we're in
25 the middle of the conditions I listed. But when
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185
1 we get to the requested language from the
2 preservation society, I think that goes a little
3 bit further towards providing that protection.
4 And I do take exception to a couple of the
5 committee members mentioning that this is not
6 the time to be negotiating between one side or
7 the other. Well, that's exactly what we do. I
8 mean, when we're up here, we want to hear where
9 they're at, we want to see how far they're
10 apart, we want to hear their reasons for being
11 where they're at. And then we've got to make a
12 decision on what's best for the city.
13 So that's what we do here, and that's
14 certainly why we're here. And, you know, look
15 forward to doing that over the next, you know,
16 half hour or so.
17 So I would -- if we could get through these
18 seven conditions, and then I'd like to -- or be
19 more appropriate for a committee member to
20 discuss the San Marco conditions that weren't
21 covered by that and discuss as a committee
22 whether or not they make -- they make sense.
23 All right. Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Shad, I guess I
25 have two things. It sounds like from the
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1 applicant he agrees to these seven that you
2 listed if these are the only seven he's got to
3 deal with.
4 If he's got to go over and above past his
5 seven, he's saying he's not agreeing with them.
6 And so that's where it seems like -- the
7 quagmire we find ourselves getting stuck in.
8 MR. SHAD: If that's where we're at, that's
9 where we're at. But, you know, we've got more
10 work to do, I guess, then. And, you know, the
11 preservation society has put together a good set
12 of conditions that deserve consideration from
13 this committee, I would think.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I have nobody on the queue.
15 Mr. Jones, one of the things that Mr. Shad
16 said is that he would support actually closing
17 access to River Road [sic].
18 Now, you said something about putting road
19 calming down on River Road. What do you think
20 about the Planning Commission's request to close
21 access to River Road?
22 I guess you can still go around the corner
23 to River Road, but --
24 MR. JOOST: (Inaudible.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: That's correct.
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1 Now, are you against that, Mr. Jones?
2 MR. JONES: Mr. Chairman, I supported the
3 Planning Department's recommendation, which was
4 to --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: No, no, no. This is
6 Planning Commission. The Planning Commission
7 added that 13th.
8 MR. JONES: I know. That's what I said.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I'm sorry.
10 MR. JONES: I support the Planning
11 Department's recommendation, which does not
12 include the one that the Planning Commission
13 included.
14 I think the calming they're agreeable on.
15 I'm not trying to force anything, but I think
16 that would be more effective in reducing the
17 impact of the traffic because all one has to do
18 is come out of that development and make a right
19 turn and go down to the next light and make a
20 right turn onto River Oaks Road. So I don't
21 think that necessarily diminishes the impact
22 that -- if someone wanted to use that as a
23 shortcut to get to San Marco, I don't think that
24 would prohibit it.
25 I think having those traffic calming
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1 devices would be more effective in that process
2 than actually closing the road, as the Planning
3 Department has implicated.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jones.
5 Mr. Holt.
6 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
7 Just to get clarification on where we are.
8 Are we, at this point, debating Mr. Shad's -- do
9 we need someone from the committee to make a
10 motion to accept those conditions that Mr. Shad
11 just went over?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Somebody on the committee
13 needs to make a motion to accept, I guess it
14 was, Mr. Shad's recommendations. And I believe
15 Mr. Jones said he was agreeable with what those
16 seven -- not including the closing of the access
17 to River Oaks.
18 Now, you've got to remember the applicant
19 says he's agreeable to those seven, just as long
20 as it's limited to those seven. So we can start
21 off with those seven, which he's agreeable with,
22 and then we can kind of talk it from there.
23 Hold on a second.
24 Ms. Eller.
25 MS. ELLER: Mr. Chairman, the applicant
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1 also modified one of those seven conditions.
2 It's condition 14 on your paper. And the new
3 condition as modified by the applicant would
4 read that, "Residential development shall be
5 limited to 30 units per gross acre of land."
6 And then in Phase I, "shall contain a minimum of
7 15,000 square feet of retail uses," and no
8 changes to the end of the paragraph.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. That's what's before
10 us right now.
11 If you'd like to make that motion.
12 MR. HOLT: Well, I'll make the motion for
13 discussion that we -- the seven conditions that
14 Mr. Shad proposed that are -- has already been
15 agreed upon by the -- by both sides, and then we
16 can move forward from there.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I can't say on the
18 record that both sides agreed upon it. You
19 heard Mr. Franklin say they agreed upon four of
20 them, but it's the applicant that's got to agree
21 upon it.
22 MR. HOLT: Okay. Well, if we don't have
23 any agreement on that, then withdraw that
24 motion.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
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1 Mr. Jones.
2 MR. JONES: I think, one, you've moved the
3 Planning Department's recommendation.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: That's correct.
5 MR. JONES: That's one amendment.
6 It would be good if we could move these
7 seven. And then if you want to go item by item,
8 then ask --
9 MR. WEBB: Beyond the seven.
10 MR. JONES: Yeah, ask Mr. Franklin to
11 address any additions to the three that he does
12 not -- he says does not go far enough. And
13 then, I guess -- then the next posture would be
14 to come back, if you want to, to the other
15 conditions that Mr. Shad had for -- San Marco
16 has presented. That's not included in these
17 seven, nor in the 12 that were already approved
18 by the Planning Department.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: My suggestion would be for
20 us to stop beating our heads against the wall
21 and defer this thing, but I'll let the committee
22 do what they wish.
23 Mr. Clark.
24 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 I think we've been here a few hours
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1 already. I think deferring it is just -- no,
2 I'm not going to relive this thing two more
3 weeks so we can spend another four or five hours
4 doing this when we can do it tonight.
5 I am more than willing to move all seven of
6 these amendments under the auspice that clearly
7 these guys met and discussed it. I think -- I
8 think it's unfair -- if the applicant is
9 agreeable, I think it's unfair to the applicant
10 if we -- if we go through these, do all this and
11 the applicant says, well, now you've moved to
12 point zero. And now this is what I've come
13 halfway to in their mind. And now we're going
14 to say, Okay. Well, here's our starting point
15 now.
16 And so I am more than willing to offer up
17 these amendments and move the bill and let's
18 keep going. If we want to go through one by one
19 and start making everything expediently more
20 difficult, I mean, we can do that. I'm not
21 going to second a single one of those motions,
22 but I am more than willing to offer -- I'll
23 offer the amendment.
24 I move the seven conditions. I'll move
25 that amendment.
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1 MR. WEBB: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
3 seconded, the Shad amendments.
4 Any other discussion on the amendments?
5 MR. JOOST: (Indicating.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost, are you on the
7 amendments?
8 MR. JOOST: Yes, I am.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost.
10 MR. JOOST: Just a technical question to
11 legal on the part -- because I think in two
12 dimensions instead of three, where it says "no
13 development greater than 53 feet," should it say
14 53 feet in height so you're thinking vertical?
15 Because the first time I read it, where it
16 said, "No development greater than 53 feet shall
17 be permitted within 100 feet of the westerly
18 boundary," it made no sense to me.
19 MS. ELLER: Confirmed.
20 MR. JOOST: So we should say -- put that
21 clarification in there.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
23 MR. HOLT: If we're in a proper posture,
24 I'd also like to add an amendment to the
25 amendment to require traffic control devices,
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1 speed humps along River Oaks.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
3 MR. HOLT: Get a second on that?
4 MR. CLARK: Is it already in the written --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Planning Department, is that
6 already in the written description?
7 MR. KELLY: The -- no, the traffic calming
8 is not. It is something we would agree with,
9 but we wouldn't want to be necessarily specific
10 to speed humps. I know emergency services has
11 issues sometimes with speed humps and there are
12 other traffic calming alternatives.
13 So we'd like to leave that open to the
14 Planning and Development Department and
15 Development Services Division review and
16 approval.
17 MR. HOLT: I'm fine with that.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that a friendly
19 amendment?
20 MR. CLARK: I'll second that amendment.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones?
22 MR. JONES: Yes.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shad?
24 MR. SHAD: (Indicating.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We got thumbs up
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1 everywhere.
2 I have nothing else in my queue, so we are
3 on the Shad amendment, slightly modified, to
4 make sure that we have traffic calming on
5 River Oaks Road, subject to the review or
6 approval of the Planning Department.
7 Mr. Harden, are you in agreeable with those
8 seven amendments?
9 MR. HARDEN: Seven, not eight, with the
10 traffic calming -- yes, taking out the words
11 "within the phase," which I think -- yes, I am
12 agreeable to all those.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Everybody is thumbs
14 up.
15 Everybody in favor signify by saying aye.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, we've added
20 the Shad amendment. So we will consolidate all
21 of those.
22 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
23 MR. WEBB: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller.
25 MS. ELLER: The final item would be that
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1 the committee's direction -- that the amendment
2 would serve as the final order since it was a
3 quasi-judicial public hearing, if that's -- if
4 you'll consider that.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: That sounds good to me.
6 Okay.
7 MS. ELLER: Okay. And you-all approved
8 that?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Shad.
10 MR. SHAD: Mr. Franklin, can you come on
11 up.
12 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
13 MR. SHAD: Do you have the list of the
14 latest preservation society recommendations?
15 MR. FRANKLIN: I do.
16 MR. SHAD: Great.
17 On number 4, on phasing, as I read the one
18 we just passed, the 1815 -- just a second. That
19 last sentence, residential -- the second to last
20 sentence, "Residential development shall not
21 exceed 600 residential units unless a rapid
22 transit station" -- well, the way we wrote it
23 it's actually five hundred and -- the way it
24 currently reads it's limited to 510, right?
25 Thirty times 17?
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1 MR. FRANKLIN: Well, let me just say this
2 about the phasing: Our understanding about the
3 condition, the seven and the way we put it here
4 was we intended it to be within that phase. We
5 intended the 30 gross acres to be 300
6 residential units, not to have the 600-unit
7 apartment in Phase I, based on their own site
8 plan. It shows 281 units in there that was
9 approved for concurrency.
10 So that was, again, fitting -- going with
11 their overall plan. So that was it. And that's
12 where this came from, our language here.
13 The way that Mr. Harden has amended it to
14 take out the word "within the phase," and the
15 phase acreage of less than approximately half of
16 17.1, yes, they could get approximately 510
17 residential units in that. So that's the
18 difference between the two.
19 MR. SHAD: Okay. Planning Department, if
20 the site plan indicates about 281 units in
21 Phase I and there's -- it's silent to it, and
22 how we've written it out now, they could have
23 30 per gross acreage of 510, how would you --
24 when the applicant comes in to build, how would
25 you clarify -- rectify that with the note that
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1 we just said the developer shall substantially
2 comply with the revised site plan? What would
3 you think? Could they build up to 281, or could
4 they build up to 510 in Phase I?
5 MR. KELLY: Our position would be that the
6 30 dwelling units an acre would be provided as a
7 gross density up until that mass transit station
8 is provided for, so that would be essentially
9 the 510 units.
10 If in Phase I the 280 -- our fear is in
11 what Mr. Franklin said, I think, earlier, that
12 he was fine with 300 units in Phase I. But if
13 you actually do the 300 units in Phase I, you're
14 over the 30 units an acre. And so requiring it
15 within the phase is problematic because it
16 requires, then, 240 units in that --
17 MR. SHAD: I guess what I'm getting at, the
18 site plan does kind of indicate it's going to be
19 closer to 300 than 500, and I'm just curious
20 what's going to be built on Phase I. Is it
21 going to be 300 or is it going to be 500, and do
22 we have any control over that?
23 MR. KELLY: Well, no, we don't.
24 But essentially -- the 300 versus the 500,
25 I think -- you know, even 500 would be
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1 appropriate up for a site that size, 17 acres in
2 that area, in the neighborhood --
3 MR. SHAD: Yeah, Phase I is only, you know,
4 eight acres or about.
5 MR. KELLY: Correct.
6 MR. SHAD: Mr. Harden, can I ask you a
7 question?
8 Is there a number between 300 and 500 --
9 closer to 300 -- y'all would be agreeable to for
10 Phase I? Whether it's 400 --
11 MR. HARDEN: Let me -- I think -- and Tim
12 will agree with this, I think. He got that
13 number from phasing off the CCAS, not the site
14 plan.
15 MR. SHAD: Okay.
16 MR. HARDEN: The site plan doesn't limit it
17 to 300 units.
18 There's three phases in the CCAS, which was
19 300, 300, and 300. We -- the limit of 300 per
20 gross acre, which is 510 units, was the Planning
21 Department's idea. That came off what we
22 originally wanted to do.
23 If you use your -- because they call it the
24 Shad amendment, I'm going to give you credit for
25 it. It says we can build -- by just doing the
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1 math -- 510 units, but there has to be 15,000
2 square feet of retail.
3 And then before we can build any more
4 units, there has been to be 50,000 square feet
5 of retail. So it forces the phasing if you just
6 use the amendment that you've already -- that
7 you've already approved.
8 It -- Councilman Shad, it's -- it may not
9 be 510 units. The question is, what's the
10 market going to be. And you want to build to
11 the market, and we're trying to stay within the
12 suggestion of the Planning Department. So if I
13 knew the answer, I -- and I could accommodate
14 you with a number, I would be happy to do it,
15 but we've already taken the cap --
16 We wanted the 60 units. The Planning
17 Department said, no, use 30 units until you
18 do -- whatever you want to call it -- bus
19 station, and that's where we are.
20 I just don't know the answer. I don't know
21 an answer other than what the Planning
22 Department has already told us, and we would
23 like to live with that.
24 MR. SHAD: All right. And to the
25 committee, you know, that's -- I envisioned this
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1 project being two phases and that at some future
2 days, aspirationally, it would be -- there would
3 be a transit station there and Jacksonville
4 would have a mass transit system, and then at
5 that point, they go to 900.
6 Well, it turns out, they really just want
7 to go to pretty much 900 right away and then
8 have a glorified bus stop. And that's just what
9 I'm struggling with and which I think the
10 commission should struggle with as well, that,
11 you know, this is going to be -- they're going
12 to go right up to 900 units with a bus -- a
13 fancy bus stop, and I don't know that that's
14 really what they had in mind with the TOD
15 section that we put into our zoning code
16 recently.
17 MR. HARDEN: Councilman Shad, I will agree
18 with -- and, you know, we don't -- I'm not
19 trying to debate you. A glorified bus stop I
20 don't think is fair if you look at the site
21 plan.
22 But, yes, the TOD is confusing to
23 everybody. And 60 units an acre is what's
24 allowed without a TOD. The TOD language,
25 confusing as it is, was an attempt by the
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1 Planning Department to break the ice on mass
2 transit in the area.
3 If they had a railroad there, obviously it
4 would be helpful. We're -- as I said in my
5 original presentation, we're at -- kind of at
6 the mercy of the JTA. If they'll come -- we're
7 going to do what we can do on our site, as you
8 see in the site plan that the Planning
9 Department did. If they would do the BRT
10 tomorrow, the light rail tomorrow, we're buying
11 into it. We're going as far as we can go
12 without having the JTA do what they're going to
13 do.
14 So I agree -- I guess the point being is
15 I agree that the TOD is a misunderstanding, but
16 even if they don't put that language in there, I
17 think they're going to cap us at the 60.
18 MR. SHAD: No, I would just say to the
19 committee that really this -- the community
20 envisioned the first phase to be in the 300
21 range, and it turns out it's 510. And I've got
22 to admit, that's what I thought it was too for a
23 while.
24 And I didn't realize how easy it was going
25 to be to get to 900 from 510. I thought there
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1 was going to have to be this vibrant, active,
2 highly used transit station, and it's not. It's
3 going to be -- it's going to be a, really, bus
4 stop, a really nice one, but it's still going to
5 be a bus stop, and we're taking them up --
6 We haven't even talked about the parking.
7 You know what? On the parking, people aren't
8 going to park on River Oaks Road. They're not
9 going to park, you know, six blocks away. You
10 know, they're going to build the parking they
11 need for the amenities they have there and the
12 build-outs.
13 But the phasing -- there's two issues here,
14 River Oaks access and the phasing and the
15 build-out and ensuring the community there's
16 going to be a mixed-use development like the
17 pretty pictures on the handout. And somehow
18 we've got to put that in verbiage, and that's
19 what, you know, we've been struggling with for a
20 while.
21 I knew that the great minds of this
22 committee could probably come up with something.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have any suggestions
24 other than those seven amendments that you had,
25 Mr. Shad?
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1 MR. SHAD: No. I came in with my seven.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
3 MR. JONES: No, I just --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: You don't have to talk. I
5 know you're not on my queue, so I have to, from
6 time to time, look your way.
7 MR. JONES: No, I wasn't aware of the
8 concern there with the phasing, so I don't -- I
9 haven't given it any thought.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Joost.
11 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 I'd like to go and ask some questions --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: You have the mic.
14 MR. JOOST: -- to Mr. Kelly there
15 concerning the traffic on River Oaks Road and
16 how that's all calculated.
17 Yeah, as amended.
18 MR. WEBB: We're on the bill as amended.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: No, we're still amending.
20 We haven't moved the bill as amended yet. We've
21 made two amendments to the bill thus far.
22 MR. JOOST: All right. Well, I'm just
23 going to plow ahead.
24 Is there substantial competent evidence to
25 make sure we are in compliance with the PUD?
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1 And specifically I heard concurrency issues
2 about this 9J-5. Are the trips -- my question
3 is, are the trips being calculated accurately?
4 And specifically, what is the status of River
5 Oaks? Because I use that road two, three times
6 a week, and basically half of it is on an
7 industrial side and half of it is residential.
8 So what is the exact classification of
9 River Oaks and how does classification of these
10 roads impact whether it's only at 6 percent
11 capacity, or if it was classified as
12 residential, which clearly half of it is, how
13 does that impact current capacity?
14 MR. KELLY: First of all, I will say that
15 the trip analysis is based on the CCAS
16 application that was submitted and the mix of
17 uses that are proposed with the 900 single- --
18 or multifamily dwelling units.
19 MR. JOOST: I got how the trips are
20 calculated. My question goes to, what is the
21 road classified as? Okay?
22 MR. KELLY: Well, I'm getting to your first
23 question on the 9J-5 and that.
24 The mixture of these uses combined as -- in
25 this application, fall far underneath the DRI
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1 threshold. So that automatically, in my view
2 and the department's view, does not -- or gets
3 thrown out the window. It's not -- it's not
4 relevant, so I will go to the actual impacts on
5 River Oaks Road, which right now is classified
6 as a local roadway.
7 Now, there was discussion at Planning
8 Commission between the Development Services
9 Division and the Department -- both are under
10 the Department, but the Current Planning
11 Division and Development Services Division --
12 about really what constitutes a local road
13 versus a collector road.
14 And a collector road, by definition, is
15 designed to serve, to connect to two arterial or
16 minor arterial roadways to break that hierarchy
17 out. And, in this instance, River Oaks Road is
18 signalized at both ends of the road.
19 So in the view of the Development Services
20 Division, their view was that River Oaks is a
21 collector roadway. But when you go out there on
22 the ground, the right-of-way width is a 60-foot
23 right-of-way dimension, the pavement width is
24 about 24 feet. This is not designed, nor is it
25 classified under the functional highway
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1 classification as a collector roadway.
2 The area between the industrial areas and
3 the properties east of the railroad tracks,
4 maybe that is a collector or functions as a
5 collector due to the traffic and the volumes
6 that are going and accessing out on Philips
7 Highway, but our concern --
8 MR. JOOST: So it's -- and when you were
9 calculating the trip usage and where Mr. Harden
10 is asserting it's only at, like, 6 percent
11 usage, was that as a local roadway capacity or
12 as a collector road capacity?
13 MR. KELLY: I can't speak to -- we haven't
14 done any traffic analysis on River Oaks Road at
15 this point, so I don't where those numbers are
16 actually coming from. I think they've done some
17 independent traffic counts and determined
18 capacity by putting out traffic count meters.
19 What I will say --
20 MR. JOOST: Well, what I'm saying -- what
21 I'm suggesting is, if it's determined to be a
22 collector road, then obviously the traffic
23 capacity would be higher than a local roadway;
24 is that true or not?
25 MR. KELLY: Correct. The carrying
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1 capacity, right, would be --
2 MR. JOOST: So determining what that road
3 is classified goes to the heart of Mr. Harden's
4 argument as to whether it's at 6 percent
5 capacity or what the residents are trying to
6 put, in so many words, that the actual capacity
7 is much closer to 100 percent than it is
8 6 percent.
9 It depends on what kind of classification
10 we're using here, and that's why I'm interested
11 to know whether you're saying it's a local
12 roadway or collector road when calculating these
13 capacities.
14 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
15 The City -- the City does not regularly
16 test the local roadways. We have to adopt in
17 our comp plan and designate the roadway to be a
18 collector roadway to be put into the traffic
19 counts and the testing for the roadway link
20 status report.
21 So this section, this River Oaks section is
22 not part of that. It's classified as a local
23 road. The traffic impacts -- and the real issue
24 is the development impacts on River Oaks Road,
25 and --
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1 MR. JOOST: So it's not -- it's not
2 classified as a collector road and, therefore,
3 the 6 percent that was calculated is based on
4 local roadway capacity?
5 MR. KELLY: That, I don't know.
6 Again, those numbers or that 6 percent or
7 that functioning capacity of a local roadway is
8 all proposed by the applicant.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Inaudible.)
10 MR. KELLY: I'm clarifying -- let me
11 clarify, please, between the CCAS application
12 and the analysis that our --
13 MR. JOOST: Doesn't somebody verify the
14 numbers? I mean --
15 MR. KELLY: It's two different things. All
16 right? Let me explain.
17 The study that was done -- and specifically
18 this is dated October 3rd. This is a traffic
19 analysis that we had our traffic people do using
20 ITE, using the distribution models and the
21 percentages of traffic that would actually come
22 out onto this roadway.
23 When we opened up the access to the north
24 side, we had to recalculate how that
25 distribution model went. And what that did was
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1 alleviate, again, a lot of the pressure and the
2 additional traffic that otherwise would have
3 gone down River Oaks because we opened up
4 Mitchell and Mark, and so that number got
5 reduced from the overall development.
6 And so from -- in terms of the capacity, it
7 went down to -- with full access, it was about
8 6.72 percent of the distribution with a total
9 projected p.m. peak-hour trips of 56.
10 Now, the distribution of those 56 trips
11 impacting on River Oaks, half are going to turn
12 left, half are going to turn right. So 29 were
13 going to turn right. And this is with the full
14 access, and that's the p.m. peak hour.
15 And that's all I was trying to explain,
16 that their measurements and their own
17 calculations of what they measured on any given
18 day, at any time, that -- you know, we haven't
19 used that as any part of our evaluation.
20 MR. JOOST: Okay. Based on your
21 evaluation, then, at what capacity is the road
22 today?
23 MR. KELLY: Again, because the road is
24 classified as a local roadway, we do not measure
25 and do traffic counts on the local roadways
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1 within the city.
2 MR. JOOST: I mean, wouldn't that be
3 germane to the decision we're making tonight?
4 MR. KELLY: As a condition of approval,
5 there's a condition for a traffic study in the
6 Development Services Division memorandum with
7 regards to the operational characteristic for
8 River Oaks Road, for -- and it's in the
9 memorandum. So I think we're -- we are
10 comfortable, we feel that we've got that issue
11 covered.
12 In addition, we've done, you know, the
13 distribution analysis with three different types
14 of controlled access, either no access,
15 controlled access, or full access, and the net
16 difference between the full access and the no
17 access is ten p.m. peak-hour trips.
18 MR. JOOST: One last question.
19 What would be the effect or the impact -- I
20 mean, it seems like you're putting the cart
21 before the horse a little bit here, approving
22 the project and then doing the traffic study.
23 What would be the consequence of approving
24 this project and then later on if the traffic
25 study is conducted and it shows a much greater
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1 variance than what we predicted?
2 MR. KELLY: Well, based on the traffic
3 study, the operational characteristics then
4 would basically go -- would have to be applied
5 in the design and the ten-set review and the
6 civil plan review, that -- you know, that queue
7 storage, maybe that left-turn lane or that
8 right-turn decel lane has to be extended. Maybe
9 it needs to be signalized at that access point,
10 maybe there's other improvements that will need
11 to be made within the area.
12 I can read the condition within the
13 memorandum from the traffic engineer. It says
14 to "provide a traffic impact study prior to
15 verification of substantial compliance for
16 River Oaks Road and Mitchell Place. The
17 developer is responsible for all costs
18 associated with the study and any off-site
19 roadway improvements warranted by the study."
20 That -- that's a level of comfort that we
21 have. Again, this is the zoning. So when they
22 get into the full engineered planning and design
23 of this, then it becomes more relevant, and then
24 there's standards that they need to apply to --
25 MR. JOOST: Okay. And one last question.
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1 Explain to me your reasoning why Summerall
2 should not be closed.
3 MR. KELLY: My reason is simple. Because,
4 when you look at this, the difference between
5 full access on River Oaks and no access from
6 River Oaks -- p.m. peak-hour trips with no
7 access, you're at 19; with full access, you're
8 at 29.
9 So the argument is, okay. So you close
10 that access point to River Oaks. Now, what have
11 you done for everybody in San Marco that's
12 coming eastbound, that wants to go to this
13 commercial development or visit a friend who
14 lives in the multifamily? You force them out
15 onto Philips Highway.
16 MR. JOOST: There would be a light right
17 there, right behind the gas station.
18 MR. KELLY: You force them onto Philips
19 Highway, instead of being able to enter the
20 development, and then you move them up to
21 another signalized intersection to make a left
22 turn into the development.
23 It's unnecessary movement. Connectivity is
24 key, and it's a fundamental philosophy in
25 planning. There's nobody -- with the conditions
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1 of the traffic calming, it's going to be
2 discouraging enough to drive through River Oaks
3 to get to San Marco if that's what -- you know,
4 and based on the model, that's not a big number
5 anyway.
6 But to prevent people from San Marco that
7 want to go to this development and force them
8 onto Philips Highway, to me, is not appropriate.
9 MR. JOOST: Because my only comment with
10 that is -- that argument cuts both ways.
11 There's so few trips, what's the impact of
12 closing it? You're saying it's such few trips,
13 it's not that big of an impact on River Oaks.
14 And if it makes the residents happy -- so you
15 have to make two extra turns for 29 people that
16 day.
17 MR. KELLY: It's not for the people that
18 are exiting or leaving that development.
19 It's -- again, it's for people that are being
20 drawn to that development from San Marco and
21 from surrounding areas.
22 So forcing unnecessary turning movements
23 when you can access --
24 MR. JOOST: But isn't -- you know, when you
25 put up traffic calming devices, say a three-way
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1 stop or speed bumps, isn't that the same thing,
2 forcing unnecessary movement?
3 MR. KELLY: No, that is not an unnecessary
4 movement. Traffic calming is completely --
5 MR. JOOST: I don't -- personally, I don't
6 like to slow down. I like to get from point A
7 to point B as fast as possible.
8 MR. KELLY: Well, I mean, from the
9 testimony I heard tonight, I think people want
10 people in that neighborhood to slow down, so I
11 think they would appreciate the traffic calming.
12 MR. JOOST: Which is causing unnecessary
13 movement for me. It's the same idea. I'm just
14 asking.
15 Okay. That concludes my questions.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a quick question, and
17 I just want this to go on the record because
18 several people have asked the question. So this
19 way, you can just kind of explain it to them.
20 People have asked the question about school
21 concurrency. Where along the process does
22 school concurrency get added to this? So you
23 can just explain to them why --
24 MR. KELLY: To my understanding -- well, I
25 mean, concurrency aside -- and I think
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1 Mr. Harden had spoken at Planning Commission and
2 indicated that this is not within the -- I guess
3 the Hendricks Elementary.
4 But school concurrency -- this is tied to
5 their CCAS application, which is -- which is
6 currently valid, and it's my understanding that
7 now, that they would -- were they reviewed
8 for -- and I'll just have to defer to the
9 director on this.
10 MR. THOBURN: I'm not familiar with the
11 specific review. What I can tell you is that
12 the way the school concurrency is -- is set up
13 is that you're tested by a concurrency service
14 area. You're not tested by individual schools.
15 And, in addition to that, the test -- the way
16 the system is set up, it allows full capacity
17 from adjacent districts.
18 So the notion that the school may be at
19 capacity doesn't mean that you're necessarily
20 going to fail school concurrency. So they're
21 tested within the service area, and then the
22 system as a whole.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I just want for the
24 audience to know -- at what point are they
25 tested for concurrency?
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1 MS. ELLER: I believe Mr. Harden has filed
2 a CCAS application for the nonresidential
3 component. When the residential component comes
4 in line, he'll have to comply with that.
5 And the residential testing for school
6 concurrency goes to the school board. And just
7 like with transportation concurrency, there is
8 the option to do a fair share if there's no
9 capacity. But as the planning director
10 mentioned, our current system for school
11 concurrency testing includes the ability to pull
12 capacity from adjacent concurrency service
13 areas.
14 So, at this point, because we do have areas
15 within our city that have a lot of open seats
16 versus areas that are overcrowded, I just don't
17 see, from the information and data that I've
18 reviewed, that -- that there wouldn't be a way
19 within the current system for him to either pay
20 and go or to have it evaluated and tested using
21 the adjacent concurrency service area.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I didn't mean to -- I didn't
23 mean to make it seem like this was going to
24 cause concurrency problems. I just want for the
25 people that asked the question and talked about
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1 it to know.
2 MS. ELLER: I think Mr. Harden can attest
3 to where he is in that application process.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: No, that's all right.
5 Mr. Webb.
6 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 I'm intrigued by Mr. Joost's line of
8 questioning with regard to the access onto
9 River Oaks from the proposed project, and I'd
10 like to ask a question of the district council
11 representative.
12 What would be your position -- I know you
13 talked about traffic calming devices. Given the
14 de minimis impact or the small number of trips
15 that we're talking about, what would be your
16 position with regard to an amendment to the
17 fact -- cut off the access for Summerall from
18 the project?
19 I don't want to put you on the spot, but --
20 MR. JONES: No. You put me on the spot.
21 MR. WEBB: -- but I am.
22 MR. JONES: Again -- Mr. Webb, again, as I
23 stated earlier, I supported the Planning
24 Department's recommendation and their reasoning
25 for maintaining an access. I think there was
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1 some safety issues that we talked about having
2 access to the complex. If something happened on
3 Philips Highway, you know, there's some safety
4 issues there too. And the impacts are minimum.
5 And then with the traffic calming devices,
6 you know, most people aren't going to drive that
7 way, and hopefully Mr. Joost will slow down now
8 when he goes down River Oaks Road.
9 MR. WEBB: We don't want Mr. Joost to be
10 inconvenienced.
11 All right. Again, I mean, the safety issue
12 is a valid consideration. I just wanted to ask
13 the question again. I apologize.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman or Mr. Shad.
15 MR. SHAD: Thanks.
16 Mr. Harden, do you have a -- can you come
17 up with a copy of the latest San Marco
18 conditions?
19 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
20 MR. SHAD: Number 9 and 10. I assume --
21 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Shad, I want to make sure
22 we're reading off -- it's the one that's one
23 through ten?
24 MR. SHAD: Correct.
25 MR. HARDEN: Thank you.
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1 MR. SHAD: Can you agree to number 9?
2 MR. HARDEN: (Peruses document.)
3 I can, but that's already covered in --
4 MR. SHAD: I know, but it's a little bit
5 clearer here.
6 MR. HARDEN: The written description -- in
7 the written description, we have that 30-foot
8 right-of-way.
9 Yes, I'm agreeable to that.
10 MR. SHAD: You can. Okay.
11 Can you agree to number 10 by chance, do
12 you think?
13 MR. HARDEN: There is nuances between
14 number 10 and the revised 6. We are agreeable
15 to the revised 6. It covers the same issues as
16 here.
17 We prefer the Planning Department's
18 language as opposed to 10. We're agreeable to
19 that concept and we believe it's covered in
20 number 6 of the Planning Department's --
21 MR. SHAD: But you can agree to 9. Okay.
22 The Planning --
23 MR. HARDEN: You know, Mr. Chair, while
24 we're standing here, number 6 is the same as one
25 of yours.
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1 MR. SHAD: Six is for good. No, I
2 understand. I got that.
3 MR. HARDEN: Number 7 is the same as one of
4 yours.
5 Most --
6 MR. SHAD: I got it, Mr. Harden.
7 MR. HARDEN: Okay. I'm sorry.
8 MR. SHAD: We're good. We're good.
9 MR. HARDEN: I just wanted to point that
10 out.
11 MR. SHAD: Sean, could you speak to number
12 10? What is the -- since the Planning
13 Department has determined this is a TOD
14 development and we've plastered it all over the
15 reports, what -- how are they going to comply
16 with Part 14? What is -- talk to me about how
17 the -- what is in the report that's going to
18 hold them to Part 14?
19 MR. KELLY: Okay. Well, Part 14 is
20 essentially the transit-oriented development
21 legislation that was approved last year. One
22 thing with that would essentially require the
23 site plan to be brought back and approved before
24 City Council. There's processes under Part 14
25 that would have to be governed -- John is giving
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1 me a copy of this.
2 It's 2007-587. But there's a number of,
3 again, criteria that are similar to the zoning,
4 but they would have to be specifically adopted
5 pursuant to a council action again.
6 Additionally, the -- I mean, it
7 fundamentally is going to comply with the
8 general standards and we will evaluate the
9 streetscaping and the furniture and those
10 elements and the design elements as part of the
11 PUD verification package.
12 Initially, this was all kind of taken right
13 out from the downtown streetscape standards and
14 incorporated into this, but I think the process
15 and some of the restrictions, potentially, on
16 some of the uses would be problematic.
17 MR. SHAD: Can you put something to the
18 language of -- and I know -- and forgive us, but
19 condition 6 was just changed today. So could
20 you put something to the effect that we want
21 to -- the goal is to substantially comply with
22 Part 14?
23 MR. KELLY: That is our intent to.
24 But, I mean, again, we didn't want to
25 designate it a TOD. I think we do want to get,
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1 you know, the --
2 MR. SHAD: It is designated a TOD in the
3 report.
4 Mr. Harden, could you put something to
5 substantially comply with Part 14 in that
6 revised condition 6?
7 MR. HARDEN: Yes. Subject to the review
8 and approval of the Planning Department and the
9 City Council.
10 MR. SHAD: Absolutely. Okay.
11 So to my committee members, I think if we
12 could move -- add number 9; and then number 10
13 would just be revising condition 6; revise
14 condition 6, amended to add one line saying to
15 substantially comply -- the PUD should
16 substantially comply with Part 14, subject to
17 approval and review of the planning director.
18 MR. WEBB: So moved.
19 MR. JOOST: Second.
20 MR. SHAD: Vote it out, Mr. Chairman.
21 Discussion?
22 All in favor?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: We are -- we are still
24 adding amendments, but --
25 MR. SHAD: Okay. Got it.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Would you
2 restate that? I was drawing.
3 MR. SHAD: It was number 9 in totality, and
4 then number 10, which is going to be revised
5 condition 6 at the end of it, period. The PUD
6 should substantially comply with Part 14 of the
7 zoning code --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Well --
9 MR. SHAD: -- subject to approval and
10 review of the planning director.
11 MR. HARDEN: Not the PUD. The facility
12 you're talking about, yeah.
13 Do you want to --
14 MR. SHAD: The facility, right, yeah.
15 MR. HARDEN: May I suggest some language?
16 MR. SHAD: The station, the transit
17 station.
18 MR. HARDEN: Right. The -- well --
19 MR. SHAD: But there are conditions --
20 MR. HARDEN: Let's call it a facility.
21 MR. SHAD: Facility, right.
22 MR. HARDEN: Just add a sentence on to 6,
23 "The facility shall substantially comply with
24 the provisions of Part 14 of the zoning code,
25 subject to the review and approval of the
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1 Planning and Development Department."
2 MR. SHAD: Great.
3 MR. WEBB: So moved.
4 MR. CLARK: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
6 seconded.
7 Mr. Harden, are you fine with that?
8 MR. HARDEN: I am.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
10 MR. SHAD: Okay. All that leaves -- you
11 know, if you go through the 10 recommendations,
12 number 1 has been handled, number 2 is in
13 dispute, number 3 was done. Instead of 45, it
14 was 53. Instead of 125, it was 100. You know,
15 kind of a compromise there.
16 Number 4 there's a dispute. Number 5, you
17 know, it's the parking for me. They need, you
18 know -- I don't -- I'm here protecting
19 River Oaks Road and my district. And the
20 parking, you know, for me, that's not a
21 protection issue.
22 Number 6 has been agreed to, number 7 has
23 been mostly agreed to, number 8 has been agreed
24 to, number 9 has been agreed to, and 10 we just,
25 you know, kind of agreed to.
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1 What's left is the River Oaks Road access
2 and any -- you know, at the end of the day,
3 900 units -- 510 units in Phase I, quickly
4 followed by another 390 units, you know, to me
5 it's a little dense. Some relief there would be
6 nice.
7 And, Mr. Harden, is your -- there's no
8 flexibility there on the density?
9 MR. HARDEN: Well, Mr. Shad, you say I have
10 no flexibility. Remember --
11 MR. SHAD: No more flexibility. How about
12 that?
13 MR. HARDEN: I'm in a quandary. I've
14 agreed to everything and now we want to start
15 negotiating from what I agreed on.
16 It's not followed rapidly. It's followed
17 by 50,000 square feet of retail or office.
18 MR. SHAD: Right.
19 MR. HARDEN: And then we can -- and then we
20 have to add on the bus -- what do you call it --
21 the glorified -- the really, really nice bus
22 facility, and so there are some phasing
23 conditions.
24 MR. SHAD: You can say no. But I just ask
25 you --
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1 MR. HARDEN: Yeah, but I don't want to --
2 MR. SHAD: This is it. I didn't know if
3 there was any --
4 MR. HARDEN: I don't want to seem like I'm
5 being obstructive --
6 MR. SHAD: Right.
7 MR. HARDEN: -- because I've tried to agree
8 because, as you can see, as we agree on stuff,
9 I'm okay.
10 MR. SHAD: But if you're only going to
11 build -- you know, if you're only going to build
12 3- to 400, let's not leave it at 510 if you
13 think it's going to be that lower number. Let's
14 just give us all some peace of mind and say 400.
15 MR. HARDEN: I think, as I said earlier, if
16 I knew that answer, I would tell it to you.
17 MR. SHAD: All right. Okay. Got it.
18 Well, we've made progress. The two things
19 in front of the committee that are really left
20 is -- the River Oaks Road access is the main
21 thing, and then the phasing got in trouble with
22 this TOD concept, and I think it's a little
23 dense.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
25 MR. SHAD: Thanks.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's vote on the last Shad
2 amendment. I think someone did move that and
3 seconded it.
4 All in favor of that amendment signify by
5 saying aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
10 approved that amendment.
11 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
12 MR. WEBB: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a suggestion or a
14 solution for River Oaks Road, if we can turn
15 that camera on.
16 This is kind of a -- you've got to excuse
17 my pathetic drawing, but this is kind of a -- I
18 have actually talked to the applicant about
19 this, and he was fine with this. It seems to
20 address the issue that Sean Kelly from the
21 Planning Department brought up where anybody
22 leaving the development cannot make a right onto
23 River Oaks Road and go down through the
24 neighborhood, but people from the neighborhood
25 can come up that direction and turn left into
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1 the development.
2 So you can address those people that are
3 coming up River Oaks Road that want to turn into
4 the development, just as -- rather than going
5 that way, going into San Marco, they'll either
6 go out the north side up to Atlantic Boulevard
7 and to San Marco and get up on Philips Highway.
8 And, Mr. Harden, are you -- we talked about
9 this. Are you -- is this what we talked about
10 and are you --
11 MR. HARDEN: No, I think -- that is not my
12 recollection. But if you will look at the study
13 that the Planning Department did, I think that
14 the -- I understood from the Planning Commission
15 that's called a chicane. The chicane
16 methodology is the middle thing. You're talking
17 about saving five trips a day, and I just
18 don't -- I'm at a quandary to know that that
19 would solve the problem.
20 We're -- I don't want to get at odds with
21 the Planning Department. I agree with them,
22 it's a life safety issue as well. It's a
23 de minimis impact, so I would respectfully
24 request we leave it open.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
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1 MR. KELLY: I just want to bring up --
2 there are some additional property owners right
3 now on Summerall Road. So where you put that
4 chicane -- if you put it at the front, where it
5 intersects with River Oaks, then it's affecting
6 the access to their properties right now.
7 If you put it at the north end of
8 Summerall, then essentially you've made that an
9 inbound-only access, which obviously it would
10 just be no exiting traffic at all coming up
11 there.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Just a
13 suggestion.
14 Mr. Joost.
15 MR. JOOST: Mr. Kelly, are -- is the main
16 concern with the Summerall Road a safety issue
17 for access for fire and police vehicles? Is it
18 a public safety concern? Is that your main
19 concern?
20 MR. KELLY: It's certainly one of them.
21 Again, maintaining connectivity is always
22 probably going to be more in the public interest
23 than cutting off roads and decreasing the
24 circulation. Again, then you're unfairly
25 loading up trips on other portions of the
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1 development.
2 MR. JOOST: But the impact is de minimis on
3 that part, what we've already discussed.
4 Are you familiar at all with the back
5 entrance to Queen's Harbour where they have a
6 gate that allows emergency vehicles in and out?
7 It's right behind the fire station there. That
8 way they don't have to go all the way out to
9 Atlantic Boulevard through the main gate.
10 MR. KELLY: That's certainly --
11 MR. JOOST: Is that a solution here?
12 MR. KELLY: It doesn't satisfy the Planning
13 Department's complete solution. I think it's --
14 that's a valid issue and that's one of the
15 reasons -- health and safety, obviously.
16 But, again, we're looking at it from a
17 functional aspect, from the people living in
18 San Marco, maximizing connectivity for those
19 developments and not putting additional
20 unnecessary trips out onto Philips Highway for
21 those people in the neighborhood that will be
22 utilizing the retail and office commercial
23 component.
24 MR. JOOST: Mr. Jones, does that sound like
25 a compromise to you or back under the bus?
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1 MR. JONES: Under the bus, huh.
2 As long as we can slow you down.
3 I would defer to the developer. I don't
4 see where that -- or even making it one way, one
5 way going north would -- I don't know if that
6 satisfies the Planning Department or the
7 developer, but if you had a one-way going
8 north --
9 MR. JOOST: You've got the other property
10 owners on Summerall.
11 MR. KELLY: But the chicane -- if you put
12 the chicane at the north end where it doesn't
13 affect the access to the other properties, a
14 one-way inbound would work at that location, and
15 that would prevent any trips leaving. It would
16 provide the ability for the public and the
17 surrounding area to access that without getting
18 onto Philips Highway and will allow for
19 emergency vehicles to access as well.
20 MR. JOOST: What's the reality of the
21 people actually following the chicane?
22 Mr. Harden, would you be amenable to
23 limiting access to Summerall to emergency
24 vehicles only, similar to the Queen's Harbour
25 back entrance?
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1 MR. HARDEN: Well, I think that's the same
2 question Councilman Graham -- that -- I mean,
3 it's --
4 MR. JOOST: Well, if we have a chicane --
5 and it wouldn't limit access to the business
6 owners already on Summerall.
7 MR. HARDEN: Well -- but you would cut it
8 off to people coming in to the project.
9 I mean, Sean has raised the issue of
10 connectivity and, you know, it is -- there are
11 life safety issues that you can resolve. I
12 mean, it's -- it's a question of good planning
13 principles.
14 They've already -- I mean, we've gone
15 through this several times. I'm trying to
16 answer the question, but it doesn't make good
17 sense to cut it off there, particularly just for
18 traffic -- I mean, for fire rescue vehicles. I
19 don't --
20 It's our preference not to. We agree with
21 the Planning Department's position.
22 MR. JOOST: I mean, but eventually, if
23 Mr. Shad has his way, he's going to cut it
24 completely off at the railroad anyway.
25 MR. HARDEN: Well, I understand that that's
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1 been tried, and I -- if that happens, that's
2 just -- nothing I can do about it I guess is the
3 answer to that question.
4 But in the interim, you've got everything
5 to the west -- you're stopping people from
6 coming out and turning left and going onto
7 Philips Highway. You're stopping -- I mean,
8 you're stopping people from coming off Philips
9 Highway coming into the project by jerry-rigging
10 the site.
11 If Councilman Shad is successful in doing
12 that, then that's a different hill to die on, I
13 guess.
14 MR. JOOST: So -- and in the interest of
15 compromise, you don't think it's a good idea to
16 limit access to Summerall with --
17 MR. HARDEN: I think I've compromised on
18 17 things so far, and now we're starting to
19 negotiate from where I compromised from.
20 I do not. I don't think that -- I don't
21 think half a loaf there is a compromise. I
22 think the access is appropriate for the same
23 reasons Mr. Kelly indicates they are.
24 MR. JOOST: All right. Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Clark.
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1 MR. CLARK: (Inaudible.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I have nothing on the
3 queue. We have -- this bill was amended three
4 times. We're going to make just one big
5 amendment. And it's been moved and seconded.
6 Any further discussion on the bill?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller, do we need to do
9 anything to make you happy before we pass this
10 or vote this thing up or down?
11 MS. ELLER: No.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That all being said,
13 please open the ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
24 the vote.
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
2 approved 2008-563 as about 17 times amended.
3 Mr. Jones.
4 MR. JONES: I just thank the committee and
5 thank Mr. Shad and the developer and the
6 residents of San Marco for their work. And I
7 think what we have, what you approved tonight is
8 a lot better than what we had originally.
9 Thanks a lot.
10 MR. SHAD: Mr. Chairman.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shad.
12 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 I had one more item, if it would please you
14 or if you'd indulge me.
15 -793 and -794. They should be very quick,
16 I believe. Maybe.
17 There's some members of the CPAC here to
18 speak.
19 2008-793.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Council members, if we can
21 turn to page 21, 2008-793 and -794. We'll open
22 that public hearing.
23 We have Tom Ingram.
24 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
25 MR. INGRAM: Are there any other cards,
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1 Mr. Chairman?
2 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
3 MR. INGRAM: I spoke with him the other
4 day.
5 I thought that he was here for this item
6 and found out that he was not.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: So you're here for questions
8 only?
9 MR. INGRAM: I'm here if you have any
10 questions.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. We're
12 appreciative of that.
13 That being said, we'll close that public
14 hearing.
15 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
16 MR. JOOST: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved on
18 -793.
19 Any discussion on the bill?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
22 ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
2 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
8 the vote.
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
11 approved -793.
12 -794.
13 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
14 MR. CLARK: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
16 and seconded.
17 All in favor of the amendment say aye.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
22 approved the amendment.
23 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
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1 seconded as amended.
2 Any discussion on the bill?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Please open the ballot.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
9 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved -794.
19 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Have a
20 good night.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: You're welcome.
22 MR. SHAD: And thank you all for your --
23 you know, no one can say that your didn't -- we
24 didn't get a fair hearing here. And y'all
25 certainly took your time and debated that in
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1 great detail, and I appreciate that.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones, did you have
4 anything else you wanted to take care of or are
5 you just going to part ways?
6 MR. JONES: I'm leaving.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
8 MR. JONES: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 2008-565. We'll open
10 that public hearing.
11 No speakers.
12 We will continue that public hearing and
13 take no action.
14 -567, we will open that public hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
16 public hearing and take no further action.
17 -588, we will open the public hearing.
18 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
19 public hearing and take no action.
20 Top of page 12, -607. I'm sorry. -606 and
21 -607. We will open those public hearings.
22 Seeing no speakers, we will close those
23 public hearings.
24 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
25 MR. WEBB: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
2 seconded.
3 Any discussion on the bill?
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
6 ballot.
7 (Committee ballot opened.)
8 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
11 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
17 the vote.
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved -606.
21 -607.
22 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
23 MR. WEBB: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
25 seconded.
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1 Any discussion on the bill?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
4 ballot.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
9 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved -607.
19 -650, we will open the public hearing.
20 Okay. The first speaker is Susie Scott,
21 followed by Michael -- looks like Lashbrook.
22 Come on down front, please.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 MR. WEBB: (Inaudible.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Actually, that's a good
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1 point.
2 Ma'am, if you'd hold on for just a second.
3 Mr. Webb.
4 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
5 Mr. Chairman, I need to declare ex-parte
6 communication. Yesterday I had a conversation
7 with Jim Register from the Planning Commission
8 regarding the movement of this bill through
9 council, as well I had a conversation with
10 Mr. Mark Cowart (phonetic) from my district on
11 the same matter.
12 Today in my office I had a meeting at
13 3:30 -- not my office -- in the conference room
14 at City Hall, fourth floor, had a meeting with
15 Mike Lashbrook, who is going to speak, Jim Hill
16 from the CPAC, Hawley Smith, Jr., Hawley Smith,
17 Sr., Nathan Day, Susie Scott, Dylan Reingold
18 from the General Counsel's Office, and Sean
19 Kelly from the Planning Department.
20 Again, we discussed the impact of this
21 bill, its consistency or compliance with the
22 Mandarin overlay. That was probably about a
23 two-hour meeting.
24 And over the past, I guess, three months or
25 so, I've had various communications with all of
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1 these parties, significantly Ms. Scott, Mr. Day,
2 Mr. Hawley Smith, and members of the CPAC as
3 well -- Mr. Hill.
4 Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Anybody else need to declare any ex-parte?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, Ms. Scott.
9 MR. JOOST: I do.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost.
11 MR. JOOST: Earlier this afternoon I had a
12 brief conversation with Mr. Hawley Smith --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 If there's no one else --
15 MR. JOOST: -- about the project.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ms. Scott. You have
17 three minutes, please.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, council
19 members, thank you for allowing me to speak on
20 application 2008-650.
21 My name is Susie Scott. I live at 13200
22 Mandarin Road, and I'm president of the Mandarin
23 Community Club.
24 Each LUZ Committee member should have
25 correspondence from the club, and I'm here
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1 representing 17 members of the board.
2 We share a common concern for the impact of
3 this large scale development on Mandarin Road
4 and the future of development as prescribed
5 under the Mandarin overlay.
6 Over the last few years, two significant
7 pieces of legislation have been passed by you or
8 your council colleagues: the historic corridor
9 ordinance protecting Mandarin Road, and most
10 recently the Mandarin overlay, 2007-652(E),
11 restricting lot size along Mandarin Road to one
12 acre or larger.
13 Those ordinances were passed to preserve
14 the unique qualities of Mandarin and Mandarin
15 Road: the natural beauty, the large number of
16 trees, the low density and rural history of the
17 area.
18 The Mandarin overlay specifically amends
19 the code by adopting criteria for all land use
20 and zoning applications. It cites the necessity
21 due to development pressure, applications
22 seeking to change the rural and estate-sized
23 properties, and the need to reduce the potential
24 for adverse effects to the areas caused by
25 increases in density. The application before
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1 you is proof of the necessity for the adoption
2 of the overlay.
3 The overlay requires a limit in density to
4 one unit per acre. This property is 49 units on
5 49 acres, where only a handful of homes
6 currently exist. That is an increase in
7 density.
8 Given the language and intent of the
9 overlay to regulate that density, the -- we feel
10 the application before you does not meet the
11 criteria set forth in the overlay. There is no
12 provision within those 49 acres for greenspace,
13 for recreation or open space, for retention, for
14 buffers, for entry off Mandarin Road, which
15 cannot be widened per the language within the
16 two protective ordinances.
17 A 100-foot-wide entry is proposed in the
18 application, which alone should eliminate the
19 equivalent of one average lot width, yet the
20 applicant has not reduced the total number of
21 units to accommodate for that loss.
22 In fact, under this PUD, all the lots
23 include road coverage, and many of the lots
24 include both road and retention square foot
25 coverage in order to stretch to meet the one
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1 acre lot requirement.
2 Within the zoning code, there is a table
3 inset consistent with the PUD application with
4 the ratio percentage of elements to the total
5 acreage. Maybe a table inset would be helpful
6 to address any ambiguity in the calculation, but
7 we have not seen that table inset.
8 If the applicant requires the flexibility
9 of a PUD to encourage the preservation of the
10 natural site features, a condition for a PUD
11 under section 656.340, then why is there such an
12 insistence on maximizing the ratio of lots to
13 acreage?
14 This application is flawed in concept and
15 it masquerades as an attempt to meet the overlay
16 law but, in fact, circumvents the intent and
17 relies on subjective interpretation.
18 May I finish?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Your time is actually up,
20 ma'am.
21 MR. WEBB: Mr. Chairman, can I ask the
22 speaker a question?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
24 MR. WEBB: Is there anything you'd briefly
25 like to add, Ms. Scott?
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1 MS. SCOTT: Yes. Very briefly, if I may.
2 I just want to say that for this and every
3 project that follows, we should not be
4 challenging the newly-adopted standards in
5 setting the bar low, but we should be
6 reinforcing those standards with the strictest
7 interpretation and enforcement, and we're asking
8 that you defer or deny this application based on
9 its circumvention of the intent of the
10 newly-passed overlay.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Scott, is it possible
12 for us to get a copy of that which you read?
13 Because you read pretty quickly and our court
14 reporter, I'm sure, couldn't keep up with you.
15 So we can just put that into the record.
16 MS. SCOTT: I can -- it's been grossly
17 amended, but I can make certain that she gets a
18 copy of it as presented --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
20 MS. SCOTT: -- if you request that.
21 Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Michael Lashbrook, followed
23 by Susan Carter.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Michael Lashbrook,
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1 but close enough.
2 Thank you for the opportunity to talk here
3 tonight.
4 My name is Michael Lashbrook, 11155
5 Wethersfield Court, Jacksonville.
6 I am the vice chair of the LUZ subcommittee
7 for the Southeast CPAC.
8 The first thing I want to note is that I
9 don't -- I didn't see it in the -- on the agenda
10 today, but the CPAC did vote to recommend denial
11 of this application. And I believe a letter
12 should have been sent to the committee. If it
13 hasn't, it should be forthcoming.
14 I want to reemphasize what she said about
15 the -- what Susie just said about the Mandarin
16 overlay. The development itself is actually
17 beautiful. We had some long conversations today
18 with the developer, and what they're proposing
19 is really what we want to see grow and develop
20 in Mandarin. It's absolutely a wonderful idea.
21 The problem that we have with it is simply
22 the density that they're doing. Forty-nine
23 lots -- excuse me -- 49 units on 49 acres, not
24 taking into account the roadways and the
25 retention ponds, is really trying to circumvent
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1 the spirit of the Mandarin overlay.
2 In particular, there are about four lots
3 that are over 50 percent -- over 50 percent used
4 for easements. Those easements are for
5 sidewalks, for the roadway -- the community
6 roadway that travels through the neighborhood,
7 as well as the retention ponds on the other side
8 of the street from these lots.
9 When you look at the proposal that the
10 developer has, you will note that those -- those
11 four particular lots in all reality, those lots
12 are -- the usable portions of those parcels are
13 really only about a third of an acre.
14 Everything beyond that is simply roadway,
15 sidewalk, and retention ponds.
16 It is really our opinion that this is an
17 obvious blatant attempt to circumvent the
18 one-acre stipulation in the overlay. Our fear
19 is if council lets this go through, we're saying
20 it doesn't matter, it doesn't count, and we'll
21 ignore it.
22 I think it's important at this point that
23 the overlay is enforced and that it have some
24 teeth.
25 Just to pass this as it is today and to
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1 never actually look at this on its merits is to
2 ignore what this council passed just last term.
3 I don't think that we can have that happen. To
4 do so I think would have been a waste of
5 council's time in passing the overlay in the
6 first place.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
9 Susan Carter, followed by Patrick -- looks
10 like Conrad.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. First I would like
13 to thank my councilman, Jack Webb, for his
14 community support. It's greatly appreciated.
15 I'm here tonight representing three
16 families that for 30 years have lived directly
17 across the street from this property that's in
18 question. We're not tree huggers. We don't
19 fight developers. Well, maybe a little.
20 We're simply here to ask that you please
21 take into consideration whether 49 homes on
22 49 acres truly meets the intent of the overlay,
23 and help us save our historic road.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
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1 Patrick, follow by Mr. Hainline.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
4 My name is Patrick Corrado. I live at
5 12709 Mandarin Road.
6 I'd like to echo a lot of the comments that
7 were previously made; however, I'd like to also
8 add the fact that under Section 656.430, Planned
9 Unit Development, where it's actually explained
10 what it is, it says the intent is not -- "It is
11 not the intent to utilize the planned unit
12 development solely to diminish the usual
13 application of the provisions of the zoning
14 code."
15 Well, in this case, that's exactly what's
16 happening. The applicant has asked for a PUD
17 and he's asking -- he stated it being 49 units
18 on 49.33 acres when, in reality, it's actually
19 49 units on about 44-and-a-half acres.
20 We've had discussions with the
21 representative from the developer as well as
22 with the developer. And, up to this point,
23 we've had -- we've had no cooperation on any
24 type of mediation at all.
25 I've heard a lot going on earlier this
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1 evening from other council -- and everybody is
2 negotiating and everybody is trying to get
3 things done and, you know, get to the bottom
4 line. But, in this case, we're getting no
5 cooperation and it's very frustrating.
6 So I think that -- my feeling is that this
7 should be turned down simply because it does not
8 meet the zoning requirements, it does not meet
9 the overlay.
10 And that's all I have to say. Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
12 Mr. Hainline.
13 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: You have one minute to
15 speak.
16 MR. HAINLINE: Mr. Chairman, T.R. Hainline,
17 1301 Riverplace Boulevard, and I'm here
18 representing the applicant, which is a Hawley
19 Smith entity.
20 Many of you know Hawley Smith. He's
21 developed many things in Mandarin, and I think
22 the letters from the Mandarin Community Club
23 have stated the quality of his developments and
24 the respect that they have for Mr. Smith.
25 It distresses him that we are here with
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1 opposition from the community club and the CPAC.
2 He has spoken with many neighbors who are
3 supportive of this development, and he has met
4 with -- was at the -- was represented at the
5 CPAC meeting and has met with the community club
6 as it was said today.
7 There is a fundamental issue here, and this
8 is what I want to touch on in my very brief time
9 and I want to get it right out.
10 You heard it, 49 units on 49.3 acres. That
11 is one unit per acre. The Mandarin Road zoning
12 overlay provides that you can't do anything more
13 dense than one unit per acre. We're complying
14 with that. No one stood up here and said
15 they're not complying with the Mandarin
16 overlay. We are. Your staff has concluded that
17 and the Planning Commission concluded that.
18 Their confusion comes in part from the fact
19 that that is a gross density. And, of course,
20 like every other development that comes before
21 you, we include retention ponds and roads in our
22 density calculations. That's been the precedent
23 with this city for as long as I've been
24 practicing, and it's with every development that
25 comes before you.
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1 You don't net out roads and retention when
2 you calculate your density. No one does. And
3 you can ask that question of Mr. Kelly and of
4 your counsel if you wish.
5 But we are completely in compliance with
6 the Mandarin overlay. The only thing that was
7 said was that we violate the intent of it. We
8 do not believe that is the case.
9 I'm going to pass around here a site plan.
10 The site plan you have in your drawings, one
11 thing that it doesn't show is the trees. We
12 have had all the trees surveyed on this site,
13 and they are shown on this site plan.
14 The road layout, the retention ponds, the
15 lot configuration, all are in an effort to save
16 trees. That's what Mr. Smith does in his
17 developments, and everyone who has seen his
18 developments knows that.
19 So what we're trying to do here is save
20 trees in our -- in the entire design of the
21 thing, and you can look there and you'll see
22 those are surveyed trees that he is preserving.
23 We're consistent with the Mandarin
24 overlay. Your staff has held that, and the
25 Planning Commission held that.
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1 We'd be happy to answer any questions on
2 that and go into any further detail and -- if
3 you wish.
4 And Mr. Smith is here and happy to answer
5 questions as well.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hainline, I have a
7 question for you.
8 Is this gated?
9 MR. HAINLINE: Say it again.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Is this community --
11 MR. HAINLINE: It's a private -- it's a
12 private road, it's a private community, and the
13 answer is yes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: It is gated?
15 MR. HAINLINE: Yes, sir.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
17 Mr. Holt.
18 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
19 Mr. Hainline, you wouldn't happen to be
20 able to tell me about how much of this property
21 is wetlands?
22 MR. HAINLINE: We can get Mr. Smith up
23 here.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: That's all right,
25 Mr. Hainline. He's next after you anyway, so
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1 we'll let him talk and then answer questions.
2 MR. HAINLINE: Okay.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Smith, you're up next.
4 (Mr. Smith approaches the podium.)
5 MR. SMITH: Mr. Chairman, members of the
6 council, I appreciate the opportunity to come
7 before you.
8 I can't give you an exact acreage, but this
9 property is permitted now, or the nucleus of
10 this property. I've added about ten acres to it
11 since it was previously engineered and planned,
12 and all of the wetlands, which are not
13 substantial. It's a pretty high and dry piece
14 of land. It's probably less than an acre of
15 wetlands. At the most, maybe an acre and a
16 half. But all of that under the prior
17 development was permitted.
18 Okay. Nathan says it's two-and-a-half, so
19 I misquoted. And I don't want to say --
20 misspeak, but two-and-a-half acres.
21 But all of that has been permitted through
22 the Water Management District to be -- it's not
23 high quality wetlands. Some of it's been
24 disturbed already. It's all been permitted and
25 mitigated for already.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Go head and finish. You've
2 got three minutes.
3 You have anything else you want to add?
4 MR. SMITH: Well, I just want to add to
5 what T.R. said. I'm really -- I've been
6 developing in this community now for almost
7 37 years, since 1972, and I met with the people
8 and I'm really distressed.
9 But what I did was meet with the Planning
10 Department, meet with the district councilman
11 and other interested parties in Mandarin that I
12 thought were stakeholders early on in the
13 process when I was designing this plan, and met
14 with no opposition. Everybody was delighted.
15 It wasn't said, but there's a 34-slip
16 commercial dock or marina that is currently
17 permitted, that we're eliminating, that the
18 prior developer was going to do. And all of the
19 neighbors are delighted with that because of the
20 congestion and view enhancement by not having
21 that marina behind their lot.
22 We wrote a letter to all of the neighbors,
23 as we always do when we're doing a new
24 development that the City wrote. We had two
25 people contact us. Both of those people, I
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1 think, are satisfied with what we're doing.
2 I'm truly distressed. I take the
3 responsibility of developing this property very
4 seriously. I've developed a number of
5 riverfront communities, as you all know, in
6 San Jose and Beauclerc and in Mandarin, and I
7 believe that they're all very well accepted.
8 We went through all the processes to see
9 what we were entitled to do without going beyond
10 the rules and regulations that this council and
11 the Planning Department staff and the Planning
12 board took a lot of time to develop, and those
13 are the rules that we used to develop our plan.
14 And now there is some dichotomy of the
15 understanding of those rules, but we went
16 through the Planning Department and now the
17 General Counsel's Office, and I think they agree
18 with -- I'll let them speak to that, but it's my
19 belief that they agree with our interpretation
20 of the rule.
21 And some of the people that were involved
22 in developing that rule maybe understood it a
23 different way, but they suggested that we just
24 eliminate two lots.
25 I don't think -- you know, I think that's
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1 de minimis. I suggested to them at the same
2 time, why don't you just give me two more lots.
3 It's kind of the same thing. I mean, what the
4 rule says we're entitled to, I think, is what
5 should be the standard.
6 I appreciate everybody's consideration, and
7 I apologize to the district councilman and to
8 the rest of you that you're put in this
9 position. I try to avoid these controversies.
10 And I met with these people in an effort to try
11 to work this out, but it's just become where we
12 have two opposite opinions about what the rule
13 is and what's legal and what we have the
14 opportunity to do.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
16 MR. SMITH: Any other questions?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt?
18 MR. HOLT: No.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: No, that's it. Thank you.
20 And I have one last speaker, Nathan Day.
21 MR. DAY: No.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: No?
23 Okay. I have no further speakers, so I
24 will close the public hearing.
25 Hold on a second, I think.
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1 Mr. Webb, do you want to speak before or
2 after we hear the amendments?
3 MR. WEBB: I would like the Planning
4 Department -- before we move the amendment, I'd
5 like the Planning Department to read into the
6 record a letter that was provided to the
7 Planning Commission by the Mandarin Community
8 Club.
9 I guess there was some misunderstanding
10 with respect to that. And, again, it was not
11 read into the record, and it was a concern --
12 there was a concern that the Mandarin Community
13 Club position on this project was not -- it was
14 not completely understood, so I'd ask the
15 Planning Department to read it in.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: And before you start doing
17 that, make sure that Diane gets a copy of that
18 because you guys tend to read real fast.
19 MR. KELLY: I'll go slow.
20 The letter is dated September 9th, 2008,
21 addressed to Mr. Wayne Eddie Johnson, Chairman
22 of the Planning Commission, regarding rezoning
23 application 2008-650.
24 "Dear Mr. Johnson and Planning Commission
25 members, on instruction, this letter is directed
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1 toward the administrative file for the
2 above-referenced zoning application.
3 "By a majority vote, the Mandarin Community
4 Club, at its regular monthly board meeting held
5 on September 8th, would hereby make it known of
6 their concerns for approval of the application
7 above to rezone 49.33 acres from RLD-A to PUD to
8 permit 49 single-family lots.
9 "The board has the utmost respect for the
10 Hawley Smith Company who wishes to develop the
11 parcel and regards a nearby Hawley Smith
12 neighborhood on Mandarin Road, River Bay
13 Plantation, to be one of the finest along
14 Mandarin Road.
15 "However, after reviewing the application
16 2008-650, the board has concerns over how this
17 project conforms to the Mandarin overlay
18 ordinance 2007-653(E) enacted June 26, 2007.
19 "Since this appears to be the first
20 large-scale single-family residential
21 neighborhood permitted and built under the terms
22 of the new legislation governing future
23 development along Mandarin Road, it is unclear
24 of what constitutes the criteria of one unit per
25 acre.
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1 "For instance, how are the roads,
2 retention ponds, setbacks, greenspace,
3 et cetera, within the 49.33 total acreage
4 considered for purposes of unit description
5 contained within the terms of 2007-653(E).
6 "The Mandarin overlay was enacted to
7 reduce the potential for adverse impact to the
8 area caused by increases in density, including
9 adverse traffic impacts, and the City of
10 Jacksonville has consistently enforced existing
11 zoning regulations limiting density in order to
12 protect the character of the Mandarin Road area
13 and specifically enforce limiting density to one
14 unit per acre as successfully defended in
15 Holzberg v. COJ.
16 "The Mandarin Community Club board is
17 seeking clarification on the implementation of
18 the Mandarin Road overlay as it applies to this
19 request for rezoning and has concern over
20 precedence set by this project should the terms
21 of the overlay not be enforced at the outset.
22 "For this reason, we respectfully request
23 that 2008-650 be tabled or delayed until all
24 questions and concerns related to meeting the
25 terms of the Mandarin Road overlay can be
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1 addressed by the Hawley Smith Company and/or the
2 Planning Department of the City of Jacksonville.
3 "Thank you for your prompt attention to
4 this issue.
5 "Respectfully, Susie Scott, 2008 president,
6 Mandarin Community Club."
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that what you wanted,
8 Mr. Webb?
9 MR. WEBB: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10 Obviously, I have a bunch of questions for
11 the Planning Department and for the General
12 Counsel once we move the amendment.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that a motion and a
15 second on the amendment?
16 MR. WEBB: I'll defer the motion to
17 somebody else.
18 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment.
19 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The motion has been moved
21 and seconded.
22 Can we hear the amendments, please.
23 MR. CROFTS: The amendment is as follows:
24 Condition 1, "The developer shall be
25 subject to the original legal description dated
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1 July 21st, 2008."
2 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
3 to the original written description dated July
4 21st, 2008."
5 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
6 to the original site plan dated July 21st,
7 2008."
8 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
9 to the review and approval of the Development
10 Services Division, pursuant to the memorandum
11 dated July 30th, 2008, attached, or as otherwise
12 approved by the Planning and Development
13 Department."
14 Condition 5, "The maximum height of all
15 structures shall be 35 feet."
16 Those are the conditions.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hainline, are you in
18 agreement with those conditions as read?
19 MR. HAINLINE: Yes, sir.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's indicate he said yes.
21 Do I have any questions about the
22 amendments?
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: No questions about the
25 amendments.
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1 All in favor of the amendments signify by
2 saying aye.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
7 approved the amendments.
8 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
9 MR. HOLT: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
11 seconded as amended.
12 Any discussion on the bill?
13 Mr. Webb.
14 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 Okay. Through the Chair, first, to the
16 General Counsel's office.
17 Shannon, how are you this evening?
18 MS. ELLER: Great. Thanks.
19 MR. WEBB: Let's talk about the Mandarin
20 overlay. Okay?
21 Specifically -- through the Chair to
22 General Counsel, to Shannon, you were clearly
23 here -- or you have some institutional knowledge
24 as to the negotiations and drafting of the
25 legislation that was ultimately passed of the
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1 Mandarin overlay; is that correct?
2 MS. ELLER: Correct.
3 MR. WEBB: Okay. So you're familiar with
4 the Mandarin overlay as it currently exists?
5 MS. ELLER: Correct.
6 MR. WEBB: All right. Well, we had a
7 meeting today and Mr. Reingold from the General
8 Counsel's Office was present. We had some
9 discussion about the intent and the spirit of
10 the Mandarin overlay.
11 I guess what I'm struggling with -- I will
12 say this, Mr. Chairman, I understand very, very
13 clearly where the community is coming from on
14 this. The overlay was passed -- the overlay was
15 passed in an attempt to maintain the quality,
16 the integrity of the community as the city
17 continues to grow.
18 In Mandarin, Mr. Chairman, we have
19 struggled with a great deal of sprawl over the
20 last 20 to 25 years, something Mr. Holt is
21 recognizing in his rapidly-developing district.
22 And when I ran for council, I'll say this
23 that, you know, one of the things that I kept
24 talking about was preserving the integrity of
25 the community. So with respect to the overlay,
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1 I wholeheartedly am committed to supporting --
2 or I'm wholeheartedly committed to making
3 certain that the integrity of the overlay is not
4 compromised.
5 Now, having said that, I also understand
6 that there are legal considerations involved in
7 all of this as well. And that's painful for me
8 because, you know, at times I'd just like to
9 punt on those issues and -- well, I'll say
10 this: It's somewhat painful for me to, in some
11 respects -- I don't want to say "agree," but
12 understand where Mr. Hainline is coming from.
13 Just -- sorry, Mr. Hainline.
14 But -- you know, I don't sympathize, but I
15 do understand the legal issues before us.
16 That being the case, is this project, in
17 your view -- in the opinion of the General
18 Counsel's Office, is it consistent with the
19 Mandarin overlay?
20 MS. ELLER: Yes.
21 I rely on the Planning Department's
22 evaluation of the criteria, and this is the
23 reason why: When the Mandarin overlay was
24 first -- when it was conceived and considered,
25 there was a lot of -- there were many requests
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1 to do a separate one unit per acre, one unit per
2 acre, one unit per acre.
3 And what we did is we looked at the
4 character of the area, and we -- in the
5 ordinance code, it specifically said that the
6 council finds that they're predominantly
7 developed at a density of one unit per acre or
8 larger, and so the one unit per acre was the
9 standard.
10 However, as you all know, I always talk to
11 you about -- with quasi-judicial matters, you've
12 got to have criteria and standards. The same
13 thing when you're applying a new set of rules to
14 future development, you have to have criteria
15 and standards.
16 So the way the overlay was created, it sets
17 out that the character and the predominant
18 density in the area is one unit per acre. And
19 then it puts back on you -- as the councilmember
20 mentioned, puts back on you all the burden, if
21 you will, of determining whether or not a
22 proposed project like this one complies with the
23 criteria. And there are six or seven different
24 criteria that the Planning Department has
25 evaluated.
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1 And just up and down on the acreage issue,
2 the one unit per acre, we have traditionally and
3 consistently taken gross acreage. We always
4 take gross acreage. It's the whole idea of
5 clustering, the ability to move units around.
6 Every development we've evaluated, it's
7 gross acreage, and that -- and sometimes it's
8 frustrating because folks get credit for
9 wetlands or credit for golf courses or roads or
10 things like that. But gross acreage has been
11 the standard, and you've got 49 acres and
12 49 lots.
13 But, again, it goes beyond that with the
14 Mandarin overlay. There's the criteria. And
15 that's what -- that's what is put on you-all.
16 And you have a recommendation from the
17 Planning Department, and it includes consistency
18 with the planning studies in Mandarin, which
19 include the things like the tree studies and
20 those other things that have gone on in
21 Mandarin. It includes alter- -- whether it
22 would alter the character of Mandarin, which is,
23 you know, your decision based upon the testimony
24 you've received. Public facilities to support
25 it, whether it's compatible with the surrounding
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1 lot sizes and density, whether the subsequent
2 future development would destroy natural
3 resources, whether it's near a landmark --
4 historic landmark, or whether it would have an
5 impact on hurricane evacuation timing.
6 So those criteria are laid out there in
7 order to give you-all the tools to evaluate the
8 impacts of this project in relation to that one
9 unit per acre, which is what started the
10 Mandarin overlay to begin with.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Was that -- was that
12 a yes or a no?
13 MS. ELLER: It started with a "yes."
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 MR. WEBB: Okay. All right. Thank you.
16 Mr. Chair, back to the General Counsel's
17 Office, talk about gross density. Okay?
18 Understood, and that seems to be the
19 protocol, that seems to be the practice, the
20 established practice with regard to zoning
21 issues. Okay?
22 What is, practically speaking, the
23 limitation? I mean, at some point it begs the
24 question, if you've got an acre lot that's
25 nine-tenths water, I mean, what -- does that --
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1 would that satisfy the -- what's the break point
2 with regard to reasonableness of the lot sizes?
3 MS. ELLER: I don't have the clear answer
4 because it is fact specific, but I can tell you
5 you have the ability, in this case, under the
6 Mandarin overlay criteria, which says whether
7 the application is compatible with surrounding
8 lot sizes and density.
9 So you can take a look at the surrounding
10 area and see, is there -- I mean, is gross --
11 when you do gross density, are the percentages
12 the same, are there a lot of lots to carry --
13 MR. WEBB: Okay. Fair enough.
14 So then I direct that question to the
15 Planning Department.
16 MR. KELLY: Right. And I would echo that
17 there are -- off of Mandarin Road, especially
18 across the street, there are smaller lot
19 subdivisions. You have RLD-C, RLD-D, which are
20 14,000-square-foot lots and quarter-acre lots.
21 And there's a PUD even next to that that has
22 similar size, much smaller lots than what are
23 even proposed under this development.
24 There is a -- in the written description, I
25 believe, it's -- I want to say it's 37,000
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1 square foot minimum lot area as proposed under
2 the written description. So they'd be
3 substantially larger, three, four times as big
4 as some of the surrounding parcels and more,
5 definitely in keeping with this intent and
6 spirit of the overlay.
7 MR. WEBB: Mr. Chairman, back to the
8 General Counsel's Office -- and I beg your
9 indulgence on this thing. I really want to vet
10 this.
11 Shannon, what is the impact? What is
12 the -- what is the theory of law? What is the
13 findings of Holzberg v. COJ, that particular
14 case cited in the overlay? Just for the
15 committee's edification.
16 MS. ELLER: That was a case wherein there
17 was a discussion about the character of
18 Mandarin. And in that case, the judge
19 specifically said that he believed, and his
20 finding was that the character of Mandarin was
21 this more rural character, this one acre lot
22 character.
23 And so that case was part of the rationale
24 that the City Council used in creating the
25 distinguishing line, when they went into this
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1 ordinance code and said, okay, what is our
2 finding going to be.
3 The City Council chose to adopt the finding
4 that a court made after hearing testimony from
5 experts and having argument on either side
6 regarding the character of Mandarin in a
7 separate issue.
8 So that was part of the basis for creating
9 the Mandarin overlay section, which, again, as I
10 mentioned before, specifically makes a finding
11 that the City Council said that Mandarin Road is
12 predominantly developed at a density of one unit
13 per acre or larger, predominantly because at the
14 time of the Mandarin Road overlay adoption
15 there were smaller neighborhoods out there
16 already approved.
17 MR. WEBB: Okay. I would -- Mr. Chairman,
18 I would like to share this with the committee.
19 We have had a lot of discussion amongst --
20 you know, within the community -- or at least I
21 have with Mr. Smith and the community club
22 and -- because a lot of the people here in
23 opposition to this project this evening are my
24 supporters, so I take this very, very
25 seriously. I take it very personally.
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1 What I think was uniformly agreed upon at
2 the outset of this and is still agreed is that
3 this is -- Mike mentioned this. This is an
4 absolutely beautiful project. It's an
5 absolutely beautiful project. It -- I take
6 Mr. Smith at his word that this, in fact, will
7 probably be one of the most upscale, if not the
8 most upscale residential community in the city
9 of Jacksonville.
10 And, you know, I'm a person who's
11 effectively -- I'm here in council today because
12 I've opposed projects, because I've opposed
13 developments. You know, since I've been on
14 council, you know, been -- I was in cell tower
15 last year, and I think we shot down four
16 different applications in the district, in
17 between 5 and 6. So very -- I've been very
18 protective of the community, of the integrity of
19 the community.
20 This one -- this one is very, very
21 difficult because, again, I wish -- I wish that
22 it were not as dense as it is. However, I think
23 what I'm -- what I'm hearing from the General
24 Counsel's Office is that the project is, in
25 fact, consistent with the Mandarin overlay and
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1 that the gross calculation is appropriate.
2 Now, I guess there's been some discussion
3 that -- well, hell -- I mean, excuse me -- heck,
4 I mean. I can -- pardon me. I beg your
5 indulgence. Pardon me.
6 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
7 That -- you know, oppose it, shoot it down
8 and let's litigate it. I don't -- I think that
9 we owe the community better than that, both the
10 district and the city as a whole.
11 I do make note of the fact that everyone in
12 this room and here before this council this
13 evening, this committee this evening, speaking
14 on this project are, in fact, constituents.
15 Every resident in the Mandarin Community Club,
16 the CPAC, as well as Mr. Smith.
17 That being the case, I could -- I could
18 very easily -- I'm going to leave it to you-all
19 to ask more questions of the individuals here
20 this evening, if you see fit, or to drill the
21 General Counsel or the Planning Department, but
22 ultimately it may -- I don't -- I'm not -- I
23 don't know how I'm going to vote on this thing,
24 but I will say that my vote will be dictated
25 upon what I think is right and not what I think
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1 is politically expedient, and sometimes it's
2 painful.
3 But that's all I have to say.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Webb.
5 I guess I'll chime in here. I see several
6 other people have got on the queue.
7 I think the one thing that jumps -- or
8 gives me a level of comfort -- and, granted,
9 this is your district and I'm sure most of us
10 will follow your lead -- is this is a gated
11 community, and that's why I asked that question.
12 The fact that this is a gated community
13 means the City doesn't control the streets, the
14 City doesn't have to go inside the gates. It
15 doesn't matter if it's 59 different -- 49
16 different lots or one big lot. I mean, once you
17 get inside that gate, you can actually divide it
18 into 49 even pieces and then say that everybody
19 owns a different piece. And, therefore, you hit
20 the exact letter of the law and not necessarily
21 the feel of the law, and that gives the comfort
22 for me.
23 If this was not a gated community and you
24 had a road that we had to go -- that we had to
25 control going in there, and then you only have
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1 X number of acres left over, then I think you
2 may be getting out of the spirit of it. But
3 since this is all controlled within, I don't
4 have a problem with it.
5 But, once again, you are the district guy.
6 Mr. Joost.
7 MR. JOOST: My question would go to legal
8 and Planning.
9 What I heard is this is in compliance with
10 the Mandarin overlay. Some of the testimony
11 implied that it somehow circumvented the intent
12 of the overlay. Does this in any way circumvent
13 the intent of the law?
14 MR. KELLY: No.
15 Through the Chair, the PUD is -- this is
16 very -- again, this is a site plan, specific
17 planned unit development with almost essentially
18 what looks like an engineered site plan with a
19 full-blown tree survey on this parcel.
20 This is the flexibility and the design that
21 is necessary. Some of these lots are over an
22 acre, some are a little less than an acre, but
23 this is -- this is what good design and good
24 planning is doing, and this is going to be a
25 nice development. And that's -- you know,
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1 beside the point, it's not circumventing the
2 intent of the overlay.
3 Shannon and I both worked on the overlay
4 together with Councilwoman Copeland and, you
5 know, it was very clear in the drafting of that
6 legislation that we didn't regulate the actual
7 lot, individual lot area. It was density driven
8 from the go. So I just want to make that point
9 clear.
10 And, by all means, if you evaluate the
11 individual criteria in the overlay and you look
12 at the map of the GIS of the surrounding area
13 and what's proposed, without a doubt, it is
14 consistent with the additional criteria that
15 were added for the zoning applications and
16 consistent with the overlay.
17 MR. CROFTS: Through the Chair, also I'd
18 point out that I think from a historical
19 perspective, going back, from my point of view,
20 being personally involved in the Mandarin area
21 development plan, this was what was envisioned
22 in this particular location along Mandarin Road
23 down to the river.
24 And, secondly, it's verified as consistent
25 with the comprehensive plan in lieu of the gross
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1 density determinations that we've made as well.
2 So, again, I would also underscore what
3 Sean has said about not circumventing the code.
4 MR. KELLY: The actual land use is a rural
5 residential land use category, which allows up
6 to two dwelling units per acre, so conceivably
7 half-acre lot sizes. That would be an
8 application we would recommend denial for
9 because that would be in -- circumventing the
10 intent of the overlay, but we feel strongly that
11 this is genuinely consistent with the overlay
12 and meets all of the criteria.
13 MR. JOOST: I guess, you know, addressing
14 Mr. Webb's concerns, I mean, the Planning
15 Department says it meets -- not only meets the
16 letter of the law, it goes beyond the intent.
17 It meets all the intent.
18 His words is it's a high and good planning
19 project. My concern would be, if we voted it
20 down, what are we ever going to approve?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
22 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
23 I'm sitting here kind of being a little --
24 feeling a little jealous that you have such a
25 wonderful thing as the Mandarin overlay. In
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1 some of my areas in my district, I wish I had
2 that tool.
3 And I asked a question earlier about
4 wetlands because I've had issues in the past
5 with developments coming in and they said, well,
6 we've got an average of half-acre lots. And I
7 say, well, that's because 60 percent of the land
8 is wetland and actually works out to be
9 quarter-acre lots or less if you take the
10 uplands.
11 But them saying that it was two-and-a-half
12 acres, I believe, of wetland out of 49,
13 basically 5 percent of the land was wet, I think
14 it not only complies with the legal requirements
15 of the Mandarin overlay, it really complies with
16 the spirit, and I find it hard to not support it
17 fully, so that's what I'll do.
18 Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Gaffney.
20 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 Yes. I just wanted to express my
22 sentiments.
23 I concur with the other of my colleagues,
24 that -- as I look at this project, it's very
25 consistent, consistent with the -- with the
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1 spirit of the other -- spirit of the Planning
2 Department and it's an extremely beautiful
3 project, and I wish I could get a lot of
4 these -- a few of these in my area.
5 And, therefore, I think it's something I
6 definitely will support.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
8 Okay. And I've got to add, Mr. Smith being
9 a chemical engineer from Georgia Tech, it's got
10 to be a fantastic project anyway.
11 I see nobody else on the queue, so let's
12 open the ballot.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
17 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote.
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
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1 approved 2008-650 as amended.
2 Bottom of the page, -713. We will open the
3 public hearing.
4 Seeing no speakers, continue that public
5 hearing and take no further action.
6 -714, we'll open the public hearing.
7 Alberta Hipps, come on down.
8 (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)
9 MS. HIPPS: Mr. Chairman and council
10 members, Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret Street,
11 number 323.
12 I'm here to speak on this rezoning, which
13 is located on 103rd Street. I know you have an
14 approval from the Planning Commission and from
15 the Planning Department, and I'll answer any
16 questions.
17 (Brief pause.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry, Ms. Hipps.
19 MS. HIPPS: That's all right.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. No further speakers,
21 we will close that public hearing.
22 Someone move the amendment.
23 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Planning Department, let's
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1 hear the amendment, please.
2 MR. CROFTS: The amendment is as follows:
3 Condition number 1, "The development shall
4 be subject to the revised legal description
5 dated September 17, 2008."
6 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
7 to the revised written description dated
8 September 18, 2008."
9 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
10 to the original site plan dated October 19,
11 2007."
12 Number 4, that "The development shall be
13 subject to the review and approval of the
14 Development Services Division memorandum dated
15 August 27, 2008, or as otherwise approved by the
16 Development Services Division, FDOT, JTA, and
17 the Planning and Development Department."
18 Condition number 5, "Boats and other
19 similar items shall not be stacked."
20 Number 6, "A landscape plan indicating a
21 continuous hedge and a tree 40 foot on center in
22 front of a black vinyl chain-link fence along
23 Connie Jean Road shall be provided subject to
24 the review and approval of the Planning and
25 Development Department at the time of
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1 verification of substantial compliance to the
2 PUD."
3 Condition number 7, "All light fixtures,
4 including security lighting, shall be cutoff
5 fixtures and should be incorporated as an
6 integral design element that complements the
7 design of the building and project through its
8 design style, materials and color. All cutoff
9 fixtures shall not have more than one percent of
10 lamp lumens above horizontal.
11 "All sag lenses, drop lenses and convex
12 lenses shall be prohibited.
13 "Illumination levels at all property lines
14 shall not exceed one-half footcandle where
15 adjacent to residential areas or right-of-ways,
16 and one footcandle where adjacent to
17 nonresidential uses.
18 "A lighting plan showing photometrics,
19 pole height and fixtures shall be submitted
20 subject to the review and approval of the
21 Planning and Development Department at the time
22 of verification of substantial compliance to the
23 PUD."
24 That concludes the amendment.
25 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, there is also, I
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1 guess, a clarification with regards to the
2 screening on the fence, that they could utilize
3 what is like a black canvas cloth, tennis court
4 similar type of material along the vinyl dip
5 chain-link fence to provide the additional
6 screening as needed.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Hipps, are you okay with
8 those amendments as read?
9 MS. HIPPS: Yes, sir, I am.
10 And I think there's also a scrivener's
11 error amendment that --
12 MR. CROFTS: That's correct. There is a
13 deletion of the CCG-2 zoning designation.
14 MS. HIPPS: This particular property is
15 CCG- -- I mean it's CN, and that's a correction
16 we wanted to make in the record.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 Seeing no questions of the amendment, all
19 in favor of the amendment signify by saying aye.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
24 approved the amendment.
25 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
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1 MR. WEBB: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
3 seconded as amended.
4 I see nobody in the queue.
5 Please open the ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
10 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
19 approved 2008-714.
20 I will open the public hearing on -715 and
21 -716.
22 Seeing no speakers, I will close -715.
23 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
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1 seconded.
2 Any discussion on the bill?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
5 ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
10 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
19 approved -715.
20 -716, we'll continue that public hearing
21 and take no further action.
22 We will open -717 and -718.
23 We have John Feeney for -717 and -718.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: John Feeney, 10878 Scott
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1 Mill Road.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: You're here for questions
3 only?
4 MR. FEENEY: Just here to provide answers
5 for any questions council may have.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a kind man.
7 Seeing no questions, we will close that
8 public hearing.
9 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
10 MR. CLARK: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on.
12 The bill has been moved and seconded.
13 Any discussion on the bill?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
16 ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
21 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
25 (Committee ballot closed.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
2 the vote.
3 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
5 approved -717.
6 -718. Get someone to move the bill.
7 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
8 MR. WEBB: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
10 seconded.
11 Any discussion on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approved -718.
4 Sir, hold on.
5 Mr. Webb.
6 MR. WEBB: Mr. Chairman, thank you,
7 Mr. Chairman.
8 Mr. Feeney, I have a question to ask of you
9 or a favor to ask of you.
10 MR. FEENEY: Certainly.
11 MR. WEBB: You're probably the only
12 constituent that I have that likes me right now,
13 so speak well of me in Mandarin. Okay?
14 Thank you very much.
15 MR. FEENEY: It must be a difficult evening
16 for you tonight.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: See, sir, you've a key that
18 brevity always gets you what you want here.
19 MR. FEENEY: Thank you, gentlemen.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. -719, -720, we will
21 open those public hearings.
22 We have Alberta Hipps on both.
23 (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Hipps.
25 MS. HIPPS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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1 Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret Street.
2 -719 is the land use change, and -720 is
3 the companion zoning.
4 This is property located on Old Kings
5 Road. It's actually, historically, the property
6 that my parents had a fuel oil company on years
7 ago. It's located next to a JEA large
8 substation, industrial look.
9 And I appreciate your support. We have the
10 support of the Planning Department and Planning
11 Commission.
12 Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
14 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close the
15 public hearing.
16 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
17 MR. WEBB: Second.
18 Move the amendment.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: On -719 there's just a bill.
20 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
21 MR. JOOST: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no discussion on the
23 bill, please open ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
9 the vote.
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
12 approved -719.
13 -720.
14 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
15 MR. WEBB: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been
17 moved.
18 Can we hear the amendment, please.
19 MR. CROFTS: The amendment consists of the
20 following conditions:
21 Condition number 1, "The development shall
22 be subject to the original legal description
23 dated November 28, 2007."
24 Condition number 2, "The development shall
25 be subject to the original written description
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1 dated November 28, 2007."
2 Condition number 3, "The development shall
3 be subject to the original site plan dated
4 October 17, 2007."
5 Condition number 4, "The development shall
6 subject to" -- "be in compliance with the
7 Development Services memorandum dated
8 August 27th, 2008, or as otherwise approved by
9 the FDOT and the Planning and Development
10 Department."
11 Condition number 5, "Property
12 identification signage shall be limited to one
13 internally- or externally-illuminated monument
14 sign not to exceed 150 square feet in area and
15 20 feet in height. The monument sign shall be
16 at least 200 feet from the north residential
17 property line.
18 "Wall signs shall not exceed 10 percent of
19 the occupancy frontage or respective side of the
20 building abutting a public right-of-way. Total
21 sign area on the site shall not exceed that area
22 otherwise allowed by code."
23 Number 6 and finally, "Buffered trees along
24 the north property line shall be three-inch
25 minimum caliper. Existing trees along the north
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1 property line and extending 60 feet into the
2 property shall remain undisturbed. The property
3 shall otherwise be subject to and be in
4 compliance with all provisions of the zoning
5 code, including Part 6, parking, and Part 12,
6 landscape and tree protection."
7 That concludes the amendment.
8 MS. HIPPS: Yes.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Hipps is nodding that
10 she's in agreement with those amendments.
11 Okay. All in favor of the amendment
12 signify by saying aye.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
17 approved the amendment.
18 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
19 MR. CLARK: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved
21 seconded as amended.
22 No discussion on the bill, please open the
23 ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
9 the vote.
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
12 approved -720.
13 Let's take about a five-minute break.
14 (Brief recess.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're back.
16 Bottom of page 14, 2008-766, we will open
17 the public hearing.
18 Seeing no speakers, close that public
19 hearing.
20 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
21 MR. CLARK: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendments are moved and
23 seconded.
24 Planning Department, let's hear this
25 amendment.
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1 MR. WEBB: The Planning Department is not
2 here.
3 MR. HOLT: Mr. Crofts, please come to the
4 council chambers.
5 MS. ELLER: For -766 through -770, these
6 are all semiannual adoption amendments; however,
7 the council had already approved them as small
8 scales.
9 When we send them over to DCA, they changed
10 the rules on us. And so for this batch that had
11 already been sent to DCA, they permitted us to
12 just lump them into the adoption semiannuals
13 that are also before you tonight.
14 The amendments repeal the small scale
15 ordinances that you already approved, so that
16 way we don't have a small scale and a semiannual
17 on the same piece of property.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: And so we don't drag out the
19 next four, that amendment goes for the next four
20 as well?
21 MS. ELLER: Correct.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
23 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
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1 and seconded.
2 All in favor signify by saying aye.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
7 approved the bill.
8 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
9 MR. CLARK: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
11 seconded as an amendment.
12 Seeing no questions, open the ballot.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
17 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote.
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
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1 approved -766 as amended.
2 Top of page 7 -- top of page 15, -767, we
3 will open the public hearing.
4 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: We have Charles Mann for
6 questions.
7 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, questions only.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
9 MR. MANN: Charles Mann, representing the
10 property owner.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: And no questions for you,
12 close the public hearing.
13 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
14 MR. CLARK: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
16 and seconded, and we heard what it is.
17 All in favor say aye.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
22 approved the amendment.
23 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
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1 seconded as amended.
2 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot.
3 (Committee ballot opened.)
4 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
7 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
13 the vote.
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
16 approved -767.
17 -768, we'll open the public hearing.
18 We have John Simpson.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, are you here for
21 questions only?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: John Simpson, 8144
23 Colonnade Court West, and I'm here for questions
24 only.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 We'll close the public hearing.
2 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
3 MR. CLARK: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
5 and seconded.
6 All in favor.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
11 MR. CLARK: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
13 seconded as amended.
14 Open the ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approve -768.
4 -769, open the public hearing.
5 Charles Mann, questions only.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 Close the public hearing.
8 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
9 MR. CLARK: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
11 and seconded.
12 All in favor.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
17 MR. CLARK: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
19 seconded as amended.
20 No questions, open the ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
25 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Mann, thank you very
9 much.
10 MR. MANN: Thank you.
11 I've got the next one too, sir.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: -770, Mr. Mann, questions
13 only.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: No questions, close the
16 public hearing.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
18 MR. CLARK: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment is moved and
20 seconded.
21 All in favor.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
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1 approved the --
2 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
3 MR. CLARK: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
5 seconded as amended.
6 Please open the ballot.
7 (Committee ballot opened.)
8 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
11 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
17 the vote.
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved -770.
21 MR. MANN: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
23 Top of page 16, we will open the public
24 hearing for -771 and -772.
25 We have Ms. Nancy Kilgo for questions only.
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1 MS. KILGO: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no questions,
3 we will close that public hearing and we're
4 going to defer both of those bills.
5 I'm deferring this thing because I actually
6 have some concerns about this impact of this
7 project in my district and there's several
8 issues about mitigation.
9 So there are some things I need to look at,
10 and so I think we'll probably bring this thing
11 back in about six months when the land use goes
12 through again.
13 52, we will open the public hearing, which
14 is 2008-773.
15 No speakers.
16 We'll close that public hearing.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
18 MR. CLARK: Second.
19 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
20 MR. HARDEN: I've got a card. I'm sorry.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you really want to
22 speak?
23 MR. HARDEN: No, but this is a land use map
24 amendment, and we've agreed to an asterisk on
25 there relating to limitation of the development
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1 size to solve an issue with the DOT. So you
2 need to amend it to include the asterisk,
3 please.
4 MR. WEBB: So moved.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Can you fill out a
6 card, Mr. Harden?
7 MR. HARDEN: I did. I don't know where
8 they -- it was hours ago, but I handed them all
9 in.
10 I'll fill them out, yes.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
12 We'll close the public hearing.
13 Can we hear the amendment?
14 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
15 The amendment is basically to maximize the
16 development to 5,041,000 square feet of light
17 industrial use and related uses.
18 MR. HARDEN: I'm sorry. Say that one more
19 time.
20 MR. CROFTS: -773, the amendment is to put
21 a development cap or maximum of 5,041,000 square
22 feet of light industrial and related use.
23 MR. HARDEN: Yeah, 5,041,400 square feet.
24 MR. CROFTS: -400, yes.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You're good with it?
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1 MR. HARDEN: Yes, sir.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All in favor of the
3 amendment.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
8 MR. CLARK: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
10 seconded as amended.
11 Any questions on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
3 approved -776 as amended.
4 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. -773 as amended.
6 -774, open the public hearing.
7 MR. HARDEN: This is the companion PUD.
8 And in light of the asterisk, we want to amend
9 the written description to also limit it -- the
10 written description and the site plan, to limit
11 it also to the 5,041,400 square feet. So there
12 would be a written description dated today, site
13 plan dated today, thus the conditions would be
14 subject to the revised written description dated
15 October 7th, 2008. The development shall be
16 subject to the revised site plan dated
17 October 7th.
18 The only changes to those are to cap the
19 development at the number included in the
20 asterisk.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is that it?
22 MR. HARDEN: Yes, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
24 We'll close that public hearing.
25 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
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1 MR. CLARK: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Planning Department.
3 MR. CROFTS: The amendment is:
4 Condition number 1: "The development shall
5 be subject to the original legal description
6 dated July 22nd, 2008."
7 Condition number 2, "The development shall
8 be subject to the revised written description
9 dated October 7th, 2008."
10 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
11 to the revised site plan dated October 7th,
12 2008."
13 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
14 to the review and approval of the FDOT, subject
15 to their memorandum dated September 12th, 2008,
16 or as otherwise approved by the Planning and
17 Development Department."
18 And 5th and lastly, "The maximum height for
19 any warehouse structure shall be 60 feet."
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, did that also include
22 that --
23 MR. HARDEN: Yes, he read the correct
24 thing.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, then that
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1 sounds good.
2 All in favor.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
7 MR. WEBB: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill is moved and
9 seconded as amended.
10 Any discussion on -774 as amended?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
13 ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
24 the vote.
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved 2008-774.
3 We will open -775, -776. And we have
4 Ms. Johnston.
5 (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)
6 MS. JOHNSTON:
7 Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the
8 applicant.
9 We will rely on the Planning Department
10 staff report, and I will stand by for questions.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good woman.
12 Close the public hearing.
13 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
14 MR. CLARK: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
16 seconded.
17 Any discussion on the bill?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
25 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
9 approved -775.
10 -776, we'll continue that public hearing
11 and take no further action.
12 We will open -777 and -778.
13 MS. JOHNSTON:
14 Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the
15 applicant.
16 We will rely on the Planning Department
17 report and stand by for questions.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Very good.
19 We'll close -777.
20 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
21 MR. CLARK: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
23 seconded.
24 Any discussion on the bill?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
2 ballot.
3 (Committee ballot opened.)
4 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
7 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
13 the vote.
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
16 approved -777.
17 -778, we'll continue that public hearing
18 and take no further action.
19 MS. JOHNSTON: Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 18. We'll open
21 the public hearing for -779 and -780.
22 We have -- looks like John Hart -- Justin
23 Hart.
24 Come on down.
25 (Mr. Hart approaches the podium.)
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1 MR. HART: I'll save it for later if
2 there's no rebuttals.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
4 No other speakers, we'll close that public
5 hearing.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
7 MR. CLARK: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
9 seconded.
10 No discussion, open the ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
15 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
21 the vote.
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven years, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
24 approved -779.
25 -780.
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1 We'll close that public hearing.
2 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
3 MR. CLARK: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
5 seconded.
6 Any discussion on the bill?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
9 ballot.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
14 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
18 (Committee ballot closed.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
20 the vote.
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
23 approved -780.
24 Thank you, sir.
25 MR. HART: Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: -781 and -782, we'll open
2 that public hearing.
3 Mr. Hart, anything?
4 MR. HART: Answer questions.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
6 We will close that public hearing.
7 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
8 MR. CLARK: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
10 seconded.
11 Any discussion on that bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approved -781.
4 -782.
5 We will close that public hearing.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
7 MR. CLARK: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been
9 moved.
10 Planning Department, can we hear what the
11 amendment is.
12 MR. CROFTS: The amendment is as follows:
13 Condition number 1: "The development shall
14 be subject to the original legal description
15 dated July 3rd, 2008."
16 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
17 to the original written description dated
18 July 3rd, 2008."
19 Condition number 3, "The development shall
20 be subject to the original site plan dated
21 August 8, 2008."
22 Condition number 4, "The development shall
23 be subject to the review and approval of the
24 Development Services Division, pursuant to their
25 memorandum dated September 3rd, 2008, and the
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1 Transportation Planning Division memorandum
2 dated September 12, 2008, or as otherwise
3 approved by the Planning and Development
4 Department."
5 Condition number 5, "No alcohol-related
6 uses shall be allowed within the PUD."
7 Condition 6, "No outside storage of
8 shipping containers or truck trailers shall be
9 allowed in the buffer areas, minimizing any
10 impact from industrial noise on neighboring
11 properties."
12 Continuing, "In order to attenuate the
13 potential noise impacts, no loading dock bays
14 may be visible when viewed from an adjoining
15 property having a residential use or residential
16 zoning."
17 Condition number 7, "Architectural
18 elevations shall be consistent with Section 122
19 of the Jacksonville Design Guidelines and Best
20 Practices Handbook, specifically 122(A)."
21 Number 8, "The Duval Road right-of-way
22 buffer shall have a minimum of one shade tree or
23 evergreen tree for every 25 linear feet of
24 frontage and a minimum of three understory
25 trees, canopy pines or palms for every 80 linear
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1 feet of frontage. At no time shall the number
2 of pines or palms exceed 50 percent of the total
3 number of required understory trees.
4 "Additionally, 50 percent of the total
5 number of all understory trees, excluding pines,
6 provided within the right-of-way buffer must be
7 a continuous evergreen species. Right-of-way
8 tree plantings shall follow the Design
9 Guidelines and Best Practices Handbook,
10 Section 15.11."
11 Condition number 9, "Perimeter landscaping
12 and fencing shall be provided in accordance with
13 Section 15.20 of the Design and Best Practices
14 Handbook."
15 Number 10, "All screening shall be visually
16 integrated into the overall character theme and
17 architectural design of the project in
18 accordance with Section 16 of the Design
19 Guidelines and Best Practices Handbook."
20 Number 11, "The lighting design of the
21 project should be designed to visually enhance
22 the overall aesthetic appearance of the project
23 and the streetscape, provide safe and efficient
24 lighting for both pedestrian and vehicular users
25 and avoid obtrusive light overspill onto
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1 adjacent properties."
2 12th and finally, "Architectural
3 elevations, the landscape plan and lighting
4 design plan, including a photometrics plan, pole
5 and fixture schedule, and a statement certifying
6 that the design meets all design guideline
7 compliance standards for the project shall be
8 submitted for review and approval by the
9 Planning and Development Department at the time
10 of verification of substantial compliance."
11 That's it.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Is this development close to
13 San Marco Preservation as well?
14 Mr. Hart, are you in compliance with all
15 those amendments as read?
16 MR. HART: I'm just trying to, you know, do
17 a good development and make it fit into the
18 community.
19 But, yes, unbelievably, I concur.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
21 Mr. Holt.
22 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
23 I just need to quickly declare ex-parte
24 with Mr. Hart and several of the neighbors close
25 by.
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1 I'm sorry, Shannon. I don't know the date,
2 but it was about a month ago. It was back in
3 September.
4 Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Does anybody have any questions?
7 MR. HOLT: We worked on all those wonderful
8 conditions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have any questions of
10 Mr. Holt on his ex-parte communication?
11 MR. CLARK: Not at this time.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 Okay. The amendment, all in favor.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
18 MR. CLARK: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Moved and seconded as
20 amended.
21 Any discussion on the bill?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
24 ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
4 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action --
13 MR. HART: Appreciate your support.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
15 -782 as amended.
16 Top of page 19, -783 and -784. We will
17 open those public hearings.
18 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
19 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden.
20 This is a trans- -- I mean, an adoption
21 round. It's already been to DCA and back.
22 The next one is the PUD, which we're going
23 to defer pending some community meeting.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, you are going to fill
25 out three cards that we don't have?
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1 MR. HARDEN: Yeah, I'll fill out one on all
2 of them if you don't have any of them.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
4 Seeing no questions of Mr. Harden, we will
5 close -783.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
7 MR. CLARK: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: -783 has been moved and
9 seconded.
10 And discussion on the bill?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
13 ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
24 the vote.
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved -783 as -- -783 as moved.
3 -784, we'll continue that and take no
4 further action.
5 -785 and -786, we will open both public
6 hearings.
7 We have Howard Smith.
8 MR. WEBB: He's gone.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: He's gone. Okay.
10 We will close that public hearing, seeing
11 the applicant is not here.
12 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
13 MR. HOLT: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: We moved the bill and
15 seconded it.
16 Anybody want to make any amendments to
17 this?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
25 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
9 approved -785 as not amended.
10 -786.
11 We will close that public hearing.
12 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
13 MR. CLARK: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
15 seconded.
16 Anybody wishing to make an amendment of
17 this bill?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
25 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
9 approved -786.
10 Anybody want to move to reconsider -786?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll move on.
13 Top of page 20. We will open -787 and
14 -788.
15 We have Mr. Birchfield.
16 MR. HARDEN: Can I go first?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: I got a card from
18 Mr. Birchfield.
19 MR. HARDEN: I know. I'm sorry.
20 MR. BIRCHFIELD: I'll give Mr. Harden my
21 power of attorney as long as it relates to
22 River Oaks Road.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden, go ahead.
24 MR. HARDEN: Before I get to Mr. Birchfield
25 and I's issue, this is another text amendment
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1 where there is an asterisk limiting the amount
2 of square footage. I believe it's 4,800,000.
3 Mr. Crofts has the language for the asterisk.
4 MR. CROFTS: If you'd like, I'll be glad to
5 provide it as an amendment information if you
6 want.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Do it as an
8 amendment, then.
9 MR. CROFTS: Okay. Shall I wait, or you
10 want me to do it?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: No. Wait.
12 What?
13 MR. HARDEN: I don't mind if he does it now
14 because then we got -- I want to discuss the
15 buffer issue.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, okay. Go ahead and read
17 them.
18 MR. CROFTS: Okay. The amendment will be:
19 "The development shall be limited to
20 4,800,000 square feet of light industrial and
21 supporting uses."
22 That's it.
23 MR. HARDEN: Correct.
24 There is a substitute condition 8 we would
25 propose as an accommodation between
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1 Mr. Birchfield and I.
2 As you recall, he represents a client who
3 owns an RV park adjoining our parcel. The
4 Planning Department had recommend a buffer that
5 included a 40-foot natural area, a 45-foot berm,
6 and then a 100-foot parking lot to the
7 building.
8 The adjoining parcel owner preferred a
9 larger area of natural growth, not have a berm
10 and have a wall instead, and we have no
11 objection to that.
12 Mr. Birchfield and I have prepared a
13 condition which does that, and we would like to
14 substitute that as condition number 8.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: On the rezoning?
16 MR. HARDEN: On the rezoning, yes.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 MR. HARDEN: Yes, thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Birchfield.
20 MR. BIRCHFIELD: I've got plenty of copies
21 if anybody needs them.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: If you give it to Marilyn,
23 she'll pass it around.
24 Would you like to add anything in your
25 three minutes, Mr. Birchfield?
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1 MR. BIRCHFIELD: I would not. I approve of
2 all that.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing that, we will
4 close the public hearing.
5 Did you have anything else, Mr. Harden?
6 MR. HARDEN: I do not.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We will close the
9 public hearing on -787 and -788.
10 Can we move the amendment?
11 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
12 MR. CLARK: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Can we hear what the
14 amendment is? You already told me?
15 MR. CROFTS: Yes.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action --
21 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
22 MR. CLARK: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
24 the amendment.
25 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
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1 MR. HOLT: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
3 as amended.
4 Any discussion on -786 as -- -787 as
5 amended?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
8 ballot.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
13 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
19 the vote.
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
22 approved -787.
23 -788, we've closed that public hearing,
24 and we have --
25 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's hear the amendment.
2 Well, actually, let's do the ex-parte.
3 Mr. Joost.
4 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 On September 30th, in addition to other
6 meetings that I've already declared, I had a
7 meeting with Justin Hart and Mr. Bill
8 Birchfield.
9 And on October 3rd, I had a phone call with
10 Mr. Harden.
11 And for those of you interested, we
12 discussed the project and the buffer issues.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 Mr. Holt.
15 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
16 Today at about four o'clock, I spoke with
17 Mr. Harden and Mr. Birchfield about buffers on
18 the property.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Mr. Clark.
22 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 On September 23rd, I talked with
24 Paul Harden about buffers and berms and trees
25 and specifics of those things.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Dr. Gaffney.
3 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 On September 23rd, I spoke with Paul Harden
5 approximately around -- I guess approximately
6 around one o'clock.
7 And then on October 7, today, I spoke with
8 Mr. Bill Birchfield and Justin Hart in reference
9 to -- both of them were in reference to buffers.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 And I've actually spoke to both the
12 applicant and the representative of the
13 community, the RV parking lot.
14 And one more thing I want to say is, I want
15 to thank both parties for actually coming to a
16 resolution before this came before the council.
17 It's always much better when you guys can work
18 it out before it comes here.
19 I appreciate you guys giving it the time
20 and effort. We all appreciate the fact that you
21 didn't keep us here for another four-and-a-half
22 hours.
23 That all being said, the amendments -- have
24 we heard the amendments on -788?
25 MR. CROFTS: We have not.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
2 MR. CROFTS: I will read them into the
3 record, if you please.
4 Condition number 1, "The development shall
5 be subject to the original legal description
6 dated July 22, 2008."
7 Condition number 2, "The development shall
8 be subject to the original written description
9 dated July 11, 2008."
10 Condition number 3, "The development shall
11 be subject to the original site plan dated
12 July 2008."
13 Number 4 --
14 MR. HARDEN: Before you go further, will --
15 Shannon, I will amend that written
16 description in site plan to change it to the 4.8
17 so it will be consistent. So we can reference a
18 written description dated today that will change
19 just the number of square feet and, likewise,
20 the site plan, like we did on the other one.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that okay with the
22 Planning Department?
23 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let it be so.
25 MR. CROFTS: Continuing right now on
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1 condition number 4, "The development shall be
2 subject to the review and approval of the
3 Development Services Division, pursuant to the
4 memorandum dated" -- "their memorandum dated
5 September 16, 2006, except for comment 3, and
6 the Transportation Planning Division memorandum
7 dated September 12, 2008, or as otherwise
8 approved by the FDOT and the Planning and
9 Development Department."
10 Condition number 5 -- condition number 5
11 originally has been deleted now by the new
12 language -- or continuing language.
13 Condition number 5 would be the following:
14 "Prior to final engineering approval, all
15 remaining portions of the remaining property
16 under the PUD ordinance 2005-543, currently
17 owned by the applicant and identified as
18 parcel 2 and parcel 3 on the conceptual site
19 plan, shall be recorded as a conservation
20 easement and the City shall initiate a land use
21 amendment to conservation. No improvements
22 other than required utility, storm water ponds,
23 and the entrance road shall be permitted."
24 Condition number 6, "Truck loading bays for
25 the southeast building, building number 7, shall
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1 not be oriented eastward towards the Flamingo
2 Lake Resort."
3 Condition number 7, which has been now
4 revised with this new language that was recently
5 worked out will be as follows: "Building 7
6 shall be constructed at least 185 feet from the
7 current property line of the Flamingo Lake RV
8 Park.
9 "The owner shall construct an 8-foot-high,
10 solid face, uninterrupted wall parallel to the
11 Flamingo Lake property line at the location, not
12 less than 75 feet from the Flamingo Lake
13 property line, after construction starts on
14 building 7 when Flamingo Lake completes
15 construction of an 8-foot visual barrier along
16 its property line," period.
17 "The owners shall notify Flamingo Lake
18 when the construction permits for building 7 are
19 issued. The area between the Flamingo Lake
20 property line and the wall to be constructed
21 shall remain in its current state.
22 "To allow for maintenance of the buffer
23 area, the wall may not end more than 300 feet
24 from the south property line of the project.
25 The Wall shall continue from a point not further
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1 from" -- not further than -- "from 300 feet of
2 the south property line of the project and
3 continue north to a point on the westerly
4 extension of the northerly right-of-way line of
5 Newcomb Road. However, the south end shall be
6 fence and gated."
7 Continuing, "There shall be no truck
8 parking or traffic within the 185-foot setback
9 between Flamingo Lake and building 7. However,
10 automobile parking and traffic shall be
11 allowed. Bay door construction shall be
12 prohibited on the easterlymost wall of
13 building 7."
14 Continuing on condition 8, "All light
15 fixtures, including security lighting, shall be
16 cutoff fixtures and should be incorporated as an
17 integral design element that complements the
18 design of the building and project through its
19 design style, materials, and color.
20 "All cutoff fixtures shall not have more
21 than one percent of lamp lumens above the
22 horizontal. All sag lenses, drop lenses and
23 convex lenses shall be prohibited.
24 "Illumination levels at the property line
25 shall not exceed one-half footcandle where
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1 adjacent to residential areas or right-of-ways
2 and one footcandle where adjacent to
3 nonresidential uses.
4 "A lighting plan showing the photometrics,
5 pole height and fixtures shall be submitted,
6 subject to the review and approval of the
7 Planning and Development Department at the time
8 of verification of substantial compliance to the
9 PUD."
10 Condition number 9, "Prior to the
11 verification of substantial compliance approval,
12 a traffic study shall be provided for the review
13 and approval of the City of Jacksonville
14 Planning and Development Department."
15 Condition 10 and finally and lastly, "All
16 off-site roadway improvements other than those
17 that are considered a part of the fair share
18 development agreement must be completed prior to
19 the issuance of a certificate of occupancy."
20 That's it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: God bless you guys for
22 figuring that out before you brought it here.
23 Are you in approval of all that?
24 MR. HARDEN: Yes, sir.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
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1 All in favor.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
6 MR. CLARK: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
8 seconded as amended.
9 Seeing no discussion, please open the
10 ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
15 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
21 the vote.
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
24 approved -788 as amended.
25 -789 and -790, we'll open those public
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1 hearings.
2 We have Richard Kravitz for both.
3 (Mr. Kravitz approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Brevity is a good thing,
5 Mr. Kravitz.
6 How are you doing?
7 MR. KRAVITZ: Good.
8 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and
9 members of the committee.
10 I will be brief.
11 Richard Kravitz, 1650 Margaret Street, for
12 the owner.
13 This is an ordinance adopting the
14 semiannual amendment to the future land use
15 series at Owens Road and Ranch Road, LI to CGC.
16 I'll rely on the staff report, do want to
17 read just a few things in the record.
18 It does have an asterisk, so we'll have to
19 deal with that. And we're in complete
20 compliance with the asterisk.
21 It's consistent with the objectives and
22 policies of the 2010 plan, the strategic
23 regional policy plan. It's consistent with the
24 North Jax shared vision plan and master plan.
25 Has the support of the DCA, the Planning
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1 Department, the Planning Commission, the
2 Northside CPAC, and Mr. Birchfield and
3 Mr. Harden.
4 No, I'm only kidding.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
6 Any questions of Mr. Kravitz?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: We will close the public
9 hearing for -8 and -9.
10 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
11 MR. CLARK: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: We've moved the amendment.
13 Ms. Eller just told me we can just
14 reference the memo as printed, and I think the
15 applicant is fine with that because he's read
16 the memos as printed.
17 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
19 All in favor.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
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1 seconded as amended.
2 Any discussion?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
5 ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
10 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
19 approved -789.
20 -790, move the amendment.
21 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
22 MR. WEBB: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment is moved and
24 seconded.
25 Same thing, reference the printed
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1 material.
2 You're fine with that?
3 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
5 All in favor.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
10 MR. CLARK: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
12 seconded as amended.
13 It's a good thing because there's a whole
14 lot of amendments for both of these.
15 Seeing none, please open the ballot.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
20 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
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1 the vote.
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
4 approved -790 as amended.
5 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you very much.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
7 Top of page 21, -791 and -792. We will
8 open both of those public hearings.
9 We have Mr. Hainline for questions only.
10 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
11 MR. HAINLINE: T.R. Hainline, 1301
12 Riverplace Boulevard.
13 I'm happy to not go into any kind of
14 presentation, except I do want to make sure the
15 conditions are correct.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: We will have them read.
17 MR. HAINLINE: Okay.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We will close both
19 those public hearings.
20 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
21 MR. CLARK: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendments have been
23 moved and seconded.
24 Let's hear the conditions.
25 MR. CROFTS: For the record, the condition
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1 for -791 is as follows -- yeah, the amendment is
2 as follows:
3 "Any revision to the Thomas Creek land use
4 plan as noted in this policy will require the
5 developer or developers to provide a traffic
6 impact analysis associated with the proposed and
7 existing development.
8 "The methodology of this study must have
9 the concurrence of the Florida Department of
10 Transportation."
11 That language will be added to policy 3.16
12 of the -- of the condition -- of the
13 comprehensive plan.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you okay with those
16 amendments?
17 MR. HAINLINE: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
18 That was requested by FDOT. They want to
19 make sure we don't exceed the asterisk levels of
20 development that we proposed without doing that
21 study, and we agree to that.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All in favor.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
2 MR. CLARK: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
4 seconded as amended.
5 Any discussion on -791 as amended?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
8 ballot.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
13 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
19 the vote.
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
22 approved -791.
23 -792.
24 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
25 MR. CLARK: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
2 and seconded.
3 Can we hear the amendment?
4 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
5 Condition number 1 --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second. I think
7 we've got some ex-parte.
8 Mr. Clark.
9 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 I'd like to declare ex-parte communication
11 with Wyman Duggan on the 16th of September.
12 We discussed the mixed use and the support
13 of the neighbors in this project specifically.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
15 Mr. Joost.
16 MR. JOOST: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
17 I too declare ex-parte communication on
18 September 16th. I had a meeting with Mr. Duggan
19 and we discussed various aspects of the project.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Dr. Gaffney.
22 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 I too wish to declare ex-parte on
24 September 16th. I met with Mr. Duggan, and we
25 declared -- basically we reviewed the overall
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1 project.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: And I'd like to declare
3 ex-parte with Mr. Hainline, and he basically
4 said his project is better than Paul's.
5 MR. HAINLINE: I deny that, for the
6 record. I deny saying that, I'll put it that
7 way.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's hear the
9 amendment.
10 MR. CROFTS: The amendment is as follows:
11 Condition number 1, "The development shall
12 be subject to the original legal description
13 dated August 11, 2008."
14 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
15 to the revised written description dated
16 September 16, 2008."
17 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
18 to the original site plan dated August 12,
19 2008."
20 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
21 to the review and approval of the Development
22 Services memorandum dated September 4, 2008, the
23 FDOT memorandum dated September 11, 2008, or as
24 otherwise approved by the Planning and
25 Development Department."
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1 Number 5, "Prior to verification of
2 substantial compliance approval, a traffic study
3 shall be provided for the review and approval of
4 the City of Jacksonville Planning and
5 Development Department."
6 We have a revised condition number 6. "The
7 buffers and building setbacks shall be provided
8 in accordance with the document and accompanying
9 revised site plan that's entitled Substitute for
10 the Planning and Development Condition Number 6,
11 and Substitute for PUD Site Plan, Exhibit E,
12 both dated October 7th, 2008."
13 Number 7, "All light fixtures, including
14 security lighting, shall be cutoff fixtures and
15 should be incorporated as an integral design
16 element that complements the design of the
17 building and project through its design, style,
18 materials, and color. All cutoff fixtures shall
19 not have more than one percent of lamp lumens
20 above horizontal.
21 "Al sag lenses, drop lenses, and convex
22 lenses shall be prohibited. Illumination levels
23 at the property line shall not exceed one-half
24 footcandle where adjacent to residential areas
25 or right-of-ways and one footcandle where
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1 adjacent to nonresidential uses."
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Crofts, you've got to
3 slow down a little.
4 MR. CROFTS: I will do that.
5 "A lighting plan showing photometrics,
6 pole height and fixtures shall be submitted,
7 subject to the review and approval of the
8 Planning and Development Department at the time
9 of verification of substantial compliance to the
10 PUD."
11 Number 8 and finally, "Prior to final
12 engineering approval, the airport notice zone
13 acknowledgment shall be recorded and provided to
14 the Planning and Development Department, JAA, or
15 the U.S. Navy as appropriate.
16 "The subject property is located in the JIA
17 civilian notice zone, civilian school zone and
18 civilian height zone, 50 feet and 150 feet, and
19 should meet all requirements of the ordinance
20 2008-258-E."
21 That concludes the amendment.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hainline, are you okay
23 with those as read?
24 MR. HAINLINE: Yes, sir, we are.
25 And I can -- I'd at least like to submit
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1 this for the record (indicating). Y'all can
2 look at it if you want.
3 The document that Mr. Crofts referred to as
4 the substitute for condition 6 is this
5 document. And it is the result of extensive
6 discussions with Planning staff, Councilwoman
7 Lee, and a community meeting which Ms. Lee held
8 on September 18th. All of that focuses into
9 this document, which is the substitute for
10 condition 6.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 Ms. Eller.
13 MS. ELLER: Through the Chairman to
14 Mr. Hainline, will you confirm that the site
15 plan is still the original site plan dated
16 August 12th?
17 And this document is an attachment to your
18 buffer condition, which is just about the
19 buffers, and it's, in fact, dated -- mine is a
20 revised date, October 1st, 2008.
21 MR. HAINLINE: Actually, Ms. Eller, this
22 (indicating) would be the new site plan because
23 this shows --
24 MS. ELLER: Shows both the buffers and your
25 configurations?
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1 MR. HAINLINE: Yes, that's correct.
2 MS. ELLER: Okay. So, Mr. Chairman,
3 condition 3 would be that the development is
4 subject to the revised site plan dated
5 October 1st, 2008, which also adds language
6 regarding buffers as texturally depicted in the
7 long paragraphs attached to what you just
8 received.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: This is the epitome of a
10 bubble plan.
11 Okay. So you're fine with that,
12 Mr. Hainline?
13 MR. HAINLINE: Yes, sir.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
15 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
16 I need to throw in one more ex-parte. On
17 September 23rd, I spoke with Mr. Hainline and
18 Mr. Duggan and Mr. Gilmore about the wonderful
19 specifics of this plan.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
21 Do you have any questions -- anybody have
22 any questions of Mr. Holt's ex-parte
23 communication?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, I think we're
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1 all good.
2 All in favor.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
7 MR. CLARK: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
9 seconded as amended.
10 Any discussion on the bill?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
13 ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
24 the vote.
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved 2008-792 as amended.
3 Thank you, Mr. Hainline.
4 MR. HAINLINE: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 22, -795.
6 Open.
7 Close the public hearing.
8 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
9 MR. CLARK: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
11 seconded.
12 Any discussion?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approved -795.
4 -796, we'll open, close the public
5 hearing.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
7 MR. CLARK: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
9 seconded.
10 Any discussion on the bill?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
13 ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
24 the vote.
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved -796.
3 -797, we'll open and close the public
4 hearing.
5 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
6 MR. CLARK: Second.
7 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, if I might.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
9 MR. CROFTS: Excuse me. There's a
10 technical amendment where we're changing the
11 terminology. It's just a phrase converting a
12 term from "concurrency management system" to the
13 more appropriate term "Capital Improvement
14 Program" in the bill.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: We're talking -797?
16 MR. CROFTS: That's correct.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I have an
18 amendment down here for you.
19 MR. CROFTS: Okay. I apologize.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We opened and
21 closed the public hearing.
22 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
23 MR. CLARK: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
25 and seconded, and we heard the amendment.
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1 All in favor.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
6 MR. HOLT: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
8 MR. CLARK: Aye.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved.
10 We've got one opposed.
11 We moved the bill as amended.
12 Any discussion on the bill?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
15 ballot.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
20 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
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1 the vote.
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
4 approved -797 as amended.
5 -798, we will open and close the public
6 hearing.
7 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
8 MR. CLARK: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
10 seconded.
11 Any discussion on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approved -798.
4 And if I'm not mistaken, we've handled
5 everything else.
6 If there's nothing to come before us, we
7 are adjourned.
8 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
9 11:15 p.m.)
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 12th day of October, 2008.
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Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203