1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE

 

       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING

 

       3                         COMMITTEE

 

       4

 

       5

 

       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, October 7,

 

       7   2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council

 

       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before

 

       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State

 

      10   of Florida at Large.

 

      11

 

      12   PRESENT:

 

      13        ART GRAHAM, Chair.

                STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.

      14        RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.

                JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.

      15        RAY HOLT, Committee Member.

                JACK WEBB, Committee Member.

      16        DON REDMAN, Committee Member.

 

      17

           ALSO PRESENT:

      18

                ART SHAD, City Council Member.

      19        WARREN JONES, City Council Member.

                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      20        SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

      21        FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

                SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

      22        MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.

                MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

      23

                                 -  -  -

      24

 

      25

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           2

 

 

       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S

 

       2   October 7, 2008                         5:00 p.m.

 

       3                         -  -  -

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon, everyone.

 

       5             This is the Land Use and Zoning Committee

 

       6        meeting.  Let the record show it's about

 

       7        5 o'clock on Tuesday, October the 7th.

 

       8             And if we can start over here on our right,

 

       9        let's introduce ourselves.

 

      10             MR. CROFTS:  My name is John Crofts,

 

      11        Planning and Development Department.

 

      12             MR. KELLY:  Sean Kelly, Planning and

 

      13        Development.

 

      14             MR. AVERY:  Ken Avery, Planning and

 

      15        Development.

 

      16             MR. HUXFORD:  Folks Huxford, Planning and

 

      17        Development.

 

      18             MR. REDMAN:  Don Redman, Council

 

      19        District 4.

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  Ray Holt, District 11.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Art Graham, District 13.

 

      22             MR. JOOST:  Stephen Joost, Group 3

 

      23        at-large.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Richard Clark, District 3.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, we have a pretty full

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           3

 

 

       1        agenda today, so I'll let those of you in the

 

       2        audience know what we're going to do.

 

       3             First, we're going to go through the

 

       4        agenda, and I'm going to tell you everything

 

       5        that's going to be deferred so if you're here

 

       6        for one of those items to be deferred, you don't

 

       7        have to sit here for three hours before we get

 

       8        to your bill and you realize we're not taking

 

       9        any action on it.

 

      10             And then after that, we're going to start

 

      11        with a special request.  And we don't have any

 

      12        visiting council members here yet, so we'll

 

      13        start at the beginning of the agenda and work

 

      14        our way through until we get a special request.

 

      15             We will be taking a break probably around

 

      16        the 7 o'clock hour.  Our court reporter needs to

 

      17        rest her little fingers after about two hours,

 

      18        so we'll take a break and we'll probably

 

      19        actually break for dinner.  We'll take a break

 

      20        about 7:00, so 7:30, and then we'll continue the

 

      21        meeting after that.

 

      22             That all being said, top of page 2,

 

      23        2005-1228 is deferred.  2006-24 is deferred.

 

      24        2006-220 is deferred.

 

      25             Top of page 3.  2006-658 is deferred.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           4

 

 

       1        2007-581 is deferred.  2007-1086 is deferred.

 

       2             Top of page 4.  2008-236 is deferred.

 

       3        2008-314 is deferred.

 

       4             Top of page 5.  2008-414 is deferred.

 

       5             Page 6.  -416 is deferred and -418 is

 

       6        deferred.

 

       7             We skip over to page 8, top of the page.

 

       8        2008-541 is deferred.  -542 is deferred.  At the

 

       9        bottom of the page, -546 is deferred.

 

      10             Bottom of page 9.  2008-549 is deferred.

 

      11             Top of page 10.  -550 is deferred.  -552 is

 

      12        deferred.

 

      13             Then we continue on to -- and continuing on

 

      14        until the bottom of page 22, 2008-799 is

 

      15        deferred.  -800 is deferred.  -801 is deferred.

 

      16        -802 is deferred.  -803 is deferred.  -833 is

 

      17        second and rereferred.  -840, -841, and -842 are

 

      18        all second and rereferred.

 

      19             That all being said, let's go back to the

 

      20        agenda and start doing some work.

 

      21             (Dr. Gaffney enters the proceedings.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 4.  2007-1350.

 

      23        We'll open the public hearing.

 

      24             We don't have any speakers, so we'll

 

      25        continue that public hearing till November the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           5

 

 

       1        3rd.

 

       2             That's one of the things I meant to say.

 

       3        For those of you that normally come to these

 

       4        meetings, our first meeting in November is

 

       5        normally November 4th, but since that's Election

 

       6        Day and a lot of the councilmembers have other

 

       7        commitments, we have moved that day forward to

 

       8        November 3rd.  So make sure you have that on

 

       9        your calendar.  We'll meet November 3rd at

 

      10        5 o'clock.  I just want for everybody to know

 

      11        that so there's no confusion.  We're actually

 

      12        meeting on that Monday.

 

      13             Okay.  Top of page 5, committee members,

 

      14        2008-413.  We have a substitute.

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and

 

      18        seconded.

 

      19             Any discussion on the sub?

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor

 

      22        say aye.

 

      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           6

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved

 

       2        the sub.

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  Move to rerefer as substituted.

 

       4             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded

 

       6        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.

 

       7             Any discussion on the rereferral?

 

       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      10        ballot.

 

      11             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      12             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      19        the vote.

 

      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      22        rereferred 2008-413.

 

      23             (Mr. Webb enters the proceedings.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Bottom of the page.

 

      25        2008-415.  There's a substitute.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           7

 

 

       1             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.

 

       2             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and

 

       4        seconded.

 

       5             Any discussion on the substitute?

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor

 

       8        say aye.

 

       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      13        approved the substitute.

 

      14             MR. HOLT:  Move to rerefer as substituted.

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded

 

      17        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.

 

      18             Any discussion on the rereferral?

 

      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      21        ballot.

 

      22             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      23             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           8

 

 

       1             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       6        the vote

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

       9        rereferred -415 as substituted.

 

      10             (Mr. Shad enters the proceedings.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Middle of page 6.  -417.  We

 

      12        have a substitute.

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.

 

      14             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and

 

      16        seconded.

 

      17             Any discussion on the sub?

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      20        ballot.

 

      21             I'm sorry.  All in favor of the sub signify

 

      22        by saying aye.

 

      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           9

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved

 

       2        the substitute.

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  Move to rerefer.

 

       4             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved to rerefer

 

       6        to LUZ as substituted and seconded.

 

       7             Any discussion on the rereferral?

 

       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      10        ballot.

 

      11             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      12             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      20        the vote.

 

      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      23        rereferred 2008-417.

 

      24             Top of page 7.  We're going to open the

 

      25        public hearing on -419 and -420.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           10

 

 

       1             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)

 

       2             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, Charles Mann, 165

 

       3        Arlington Road, representing the Northside

 

       4        Women's Resource Center.

 

       5             This is a center that offers post and

 

       6        prenatal care.  It's a benefit to the

 

       7        neighborhood.  We've worked through it prior to

 

       8        this, before -- this was one of the items that

 

       9        was rereferred to DCA, and I'll just stand by

 

      10        for questions.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Mann.

 

      12             Any other speakers?

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no other speakers,

 

      15        we're going to close the public hearing on -419

 

      16        and -420.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill's been moved and

 

      20        seconded.

 

      21             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      24        ballot.

 

      25             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           11

 

 

       1             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      10        the vote.

 

      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas [sic], zero nays.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      13        approved -419.

 

      14             -420.  We have an amendment.

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment's been moved

 

      18        and seconded.

 

      19             Planning Department, can we hear the

 

      20        amendment, please.

 

      21             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.  The

 

      22        amendment is as follows:

 

      23             Condition number 1, "The developer shall be

 

      24        subject to the original legal description dated

 

      25        January 22nd, 2008."

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           12

 

 

       1             Condition number 2, "The developer shall be

 

       2        subject to the original written description

 

       3        dated January 22nd, 2008."

 

       4             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject

 

       5        to the original site plan dated January 22nd,

 

       6        2008."

 

       7             Condition number 4, "The developer shall be

 

       8        subject to the review and approval of the

 

       9        Development Services Division, pursuant to their

 

      10        memorandum dated May 16th, 2008, and the

 

      11        Transportation Planning Division memorandum

 

      12        dated June 16th, 2008, or as otherwise approved

 

      13        by the Planning and Development Department."

 

      14             Condition number 5, "A pregnancy counseling

 

      15        center with ancillary medical services

 

      16        subordinate to the primary use shall be

 

      17        permitted.  However, the following permitted

 

      18        uses and permissible uses by exception in the

 

      19        CRO zoning district are specifically

 

      20        prohibited:  medical clinics, banks,

 

      21        drive-throughs, cosmetology and similar uses,

 

      22        fitness and gymnastic centers, stage theatres,

 

      23        rooming houses, residential treatment centers,

 

      24        group care homes, and emergency shelters."

 

      25             Condition number 6, "The parking lot shall

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           13

 

 

       1        be brought into compliance with Part 12 of the

 

       2        zoning code and a sidewalk shall be provided

 

       3        from Main Street to the driveway."

 

       4             Number 7, "No vehicular access shall be

 

       5        permitted from Sago Avenue."

 

       6             Number 8, "Only nonilluminated signs shall

 

       7        be allowed pursuant to the CRO zoning district

 

       8        criteria found in Part 13 of the zoning code."

 

       9             Number 9 and finally, "The developer shall

 

      10        provide an uncomplementary buffer along the

 

      11        northerly property line per Section 656.1216 of

 

      12        the zoning code."

 

      13             That's it.

 

      14             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, I've been over

 

      15        those conditions with my client and he's in

 

      16        agreement.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Mann.

 

      18             We have a motion and a second on the

 

      19        amendment.

 

      20             Any further discussion on the amendment?

 

      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor

 

      23        say aye.

 

      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           14

 

 

       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

       3        approved the amendment.

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       5             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill's been moved and

 

       7        seconded as amended.

 

       8             Any further discussion on the bill?

 

       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      11        ballot.

 

      12             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      13             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      21        the vote.

 

      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      24        approved 2008-420.

 

      25             Let the record show that Councilmember Shad

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           15

 

 

       1        has joined us.

 

       2             MR. MANN:  Committee, thank you very much.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       4             Mr. Shad, I have two other ones so I can

 

       5        close out page 8, if you don't mind.

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  We have to wait on Councilmember

 

       7        Jones, I'm sure.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We'll wait on

 

       9        Councilmember Jones.

 

      10             2008-517.  We'll open the public hearing.

 

      11             No speakers.  We'll continue that public

 

      12        hearing and take no further action.

 

      13             Page 8.  2008-545.

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.

 

      15             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and

 

      17        seconded.

 

      18             Any discussion on the substitute?

 

      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor say aye.

 

      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved

 

      25        the substitute.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           16

 

 

       1             MR. CLARK:  Move to rerefer.

 

       2             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded

 

       4        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.

 

       5             Any further discussion on the rereferral?

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       8        ballot.

 

       9             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      10             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      18        the vote.

 

      19             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      21        rereferred 2008-545 as substituted.

 

      22             Okay.  We'll move on until Mr. Jones

 

      23        comes.

 

      24             Top of page 9.  2008-547 and -548.  We'll

 

      25        open both of those public hearings.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           17

 

 

       1             We have Dan and Dan.  Come on down, Dan.

 

       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Dan Boswell, 4014 Ranie

 

       4        Road, representing the owners of the property,

 

       5        Traw Engineering.

 

       6             What we have is 9.31 acres going to -- from

 

       7        LDR to light industrial.  It currently has heavy

 

       8        industrial to the north, 295 to the west,

 

       9        Old Kings Road to the right with some low

 

      10        density residential, and then some industrial

 

      11        and residential to the south.

 

      12             (Mr. Jones enters the proceedings.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Very good.

 

      14             Is that it?

 

      15             MR. BOSWELL:  That's it.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have no further speakers,

 

      17        so we'll close the public hearing.  Just hold

 

      18        on.

 

      19             Let's start with -547.  Someone move the

 

      20        bill.

 

      21             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      22             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and

 

      24        seconded.

 

      25             Any discussion on the bill?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           18

 

 

       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       3        ballot.

 

       4             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       5             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      14        the vote.

 

      15             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      17        approved -547.

 

      18             -548.

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      20             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and

 

      22        seconded, -548.

 

      23             Any discussion on -548?

 

      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           19

 

 

       1        ballot.

 

       2             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       3             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      12        the vote.

 

      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      15        approved 2008-548.

 

      16             MR. BOSWELL:  Thank you very much.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      18             Actually, you can thank Mr. Jones because

 

      19        we were able to get to your bill.

 

      20             Let the record show that Mr. Warren Jones

 

      21        has joined us.

 

      22             Welcome, sir.

 

      23             MR. JONES:  Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  And Dr. Johnny Gaffney.

 

      25             I'm sorry, sir.  I thought you were here

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           20

 

 

       1        earlier.  We missed you.  Welcome.

 

       2             Middle of page 10, 2008-551.  We have a

 

       3        substitute.

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  Move the substitute.

 

       5             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub's been moved and

 

       7        seconded.

 

       8             Any discussion on the substitute?

 

       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor say aye.

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved

 

      15        the substitute.

 

      16             MR. CLARK:  Moved to rerefer.

 

      17             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded

 

      19        to rerefer to LUZ as substituted.

 

      20             Any discussion on the rereferral?

 

      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      23        ballot.

 

      24             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      25             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           21

 

 

       1             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       9        the vote.

 

      10             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      12        rereferred 2008-551 as substituted.

 

      13             2008-562.  Open the public hearing.

 

      14             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      15        public hearing and take no action.

 

      16             First ten pages are down.

 

      17             Okay.  Mr. Jones -- well, I'm sorry,

 

      18        Mr. Shad was here first.

 

      19             Mr. Shad, what on our agenda do you want to

 

      20        take up first?

 

      21             MR. SHAD:  -563.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 11.  -563.

 

      23             Okay.  Mr. Shad, did you say you wanted to

 

      24        make a statement before we got started with the

 

      25        official quasi-judicial process?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           22

 

 

       1             MR. SHAD:  I did.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  Thank you, committee members.

 

       4             A couple of items.  There had been a -- I

 

       5        wanted to acknowledge, I had received a couple

 

       6        of requests for deferral from some members of

 

       7        the community, and I wanted to just note -- make

 

       8        sure it was clear that I did ask the applicant

 

       9        if they would support a deferral because we had

 

      10        deferred it one time for five weeks, and

 

      11        actually for two cycles, including a fifth week

 

      12        there.

 

      13             I just wanted to go on record, it had been

 

      14        deferred for five weeks and that the applicant

 

      15        strongly -- even -- I tried to insist, but

 

      16        strongly did not want to go forward with a

 

      17        deferral, so that's why we're going to hear it

 

      18        tonight.

 

      19             I also wanted to ask y'all for your -- draw

 

      20        upon all your skills as we go forward with

 

      21        this.  It has a lot of moving parts.

 

      22             River Oaks Road, you will hear tonight, is

 

      23        where you're going to hear most of the

 

      24        opposition.  It's a -- if you haven't been out

 

      25        there, River Oaks Road, it's an unusual road

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           23

 

 

       1        that is very commercial on one end, separated by

 

       2        railroad tracks, and very residential --

 

       3        extremely residential on the other end, and I

 

       4        would ask you to consider that and to protect

 

       5        that neighborhood and that road as you

 

       6        deliberate and look at competing amendments

 

       7        tonight.

 

       8             I'll also note that -- to the community,

 

       9        that the closure of River Oaks Road has been

 

      10        something that has been talked about a lot.  I

 

      11        know it's been attempted in the past, several

 

      12        times, and I, myself, have struggled with how

 

      13        that relates to this zoning.

 

      14             And it really is a separate issue, but I

 

      15        would just say here on the record that as the

 

      16        development of Philips Highway goes forward,

 

      17        both with this development and other

 

      18        developments, that I think I, more than ever

 

      19        now, will support the closure of that crossing

 

      20        there.

 

      21             And, you know, I am, myself, not the

 

      22        deciding factor in doing that.  The railroad,

 

      23        the mayor's office, other council members in

 

      24        that area -- I just want to get that on the

 

      25        record, that with this development on River Oaks

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           24

 

 

       1        Road, with the unusual nature of it being one of

 

       2        the only cross-throughs between Emerson and

 

       3        Atlantic, that I think it's probably time, as we

 

       4        develop Philips Highway, that that closure gets

 

       5        closed, and I just wanted to get that on the

 

       6        record.

 

       7             Thank you.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Shad.

 

       9             Okay.  We're at 2008-563.  We've got a

 

      10        formal request to have a formal quasi-judicial

 

      11        hearing, so our process will change a little

 

      12        today to make sure that we comply with that

 

      13        request.

 

      14             That being said, we can start with

 

      15        declaring ex-parte communications.  And if

 

      16        you've declared communications the last time on

 

      17        this bill, you do not need to do it again unless

 

      18        you've had further conversations with people

 

      19        since the last time.

 

      20             That all being said, the first one is

 

      21        Mr. Holt.

 

      22             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      23             I declare ex-parte communication with

 

      24        Mr. Ashton Hudson and Lori Boyer on September

 

      25        23rd.  We discussed the Jackson Square project.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           25

 

 

       1        And also with the agent, Paul Harden,

 

       2        yesterday.  We discussed some of the issues

 

       3        surrounding it.

 

       4             Thank you.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       6             Mr. Clark.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       8             I would like to declare ex-parte on

 

       9        September 23rd with the agent, Paul Harden.

 

      10        Also, on September 23rd with Christine Sasser,

 

      11        on the 15th with Ashton Hudson and the San Marco

 

      12        Preservation Society, as well as today with

 

      13        Bruce Barcelo.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      15             Mr. Joost.

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      17             On September 3rd, I had a meeting with the

 

      18        applicant, Paul Harden.

 

      19             On September 10th, I had a phone

 

      20        conversation with Mr. Harden.

 

      21             On September 30th, I had a meeting with

 

      22        Christine Sasser and Philip Elson.

 

      23             On September 30th, I also had a meeting

 

      24        with Steve Cissel, the developer.

 

      25             On October 3rd, I had another phone

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           26

 

 

       1        conversation with Mr. Harden.

 

       2             On October 3rd, I had a phone conversation

 

       3        with Christine Sasser.

 

       4             And on October 7th, I had a meeting with

 

       5        Tim Franklin in my office, all to discuss

 

       6        various aspects of the project.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       8             Mr. Webb.

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      10             Three weeks ago, I had ex-parte

 

      11        communications with Ashton Hudson and Lori Boyer

 

      12        with regards -- with respect to this

 

      13        application.  Moreover, two weeks ago, I had a

 

      14        meeting in my office with Steve Cissel, the

 

      15        developer, to talk about this -- the project.

 

      16             Thank you.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.

 

      18             MR. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      19             I had ex-parte communications today with

 

      20        Bruce Barcelo and Paul Harden regarding the -- a

 

      21        deferral, a possible deferral.

 

      22             I had an ex-parte communication with

 

      23        Ms. Boyer two weeks ago regarding some

 

      24        additional conditions that she would like to see

 

      25        added to the rezoning.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           27

 

 

       1             And I met yesterday with Steve Cissel to

 

       2        discuss access to River Oaks Road and the other

 

       3        conditions that were imposed by the Planning

 

       4        Commission and recommended by the Planning

 

       5        Department.

 

       6             Thank you.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Dr. Gaffney.

 

       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       9             Yes.  I wish to declare ex-parte

 

      10        communication.  On 9/23, I had a meeting in my

 

      11        office with Mr. Paul Harden in reference to the

 

      12        project and the zoning area.

 

      13             Also on 9/23, I had -- I met with

 

      14        Ms. Christine Sasser in reference to

 

      15        accessibility to the project that they're

 

      16        contemplating building over there.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      18             Mr. Shad.

 

      19             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.

 

      20             Since our last announced ex-parte

 

      21        communications, Wednesday, October 1st, in my

 

      22        office, Christine Sasser, Philip Elson.

 

      23             Friday, October 3rd, the leadership from

 

      24        San Marco Preservation Society, the developer,

 

      25        his agent, the Planning Department and General

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           28

 

 

       1        Counsel's Office.

 

       2             Yesterday by phone, Lori Boyer and Matt

 

       3        Carlucci; and today by phone, Bruce Barcelo and

 

       4        Mr. Paul Harden.

 

       5             Thank you.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  And I've had ex-parte

 

       7        communications since the last time with

 

       8        Ms. Boyer three weeks ago, and with the

 

       9        applicant last Thursday, and with Ms. Sasser and

 

      10        Bruce Barcelo yesterday.

 

      11             MR. JONES:  I forgot one.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.

 

      13             MR. JONES:  Thank you.

 

      14             I omitted -- yesterday I discussed the

 

      15        deferral with -- ex-parte communication with

 

      16        Matt Carlucci.

 

      17             Thank you.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      19             Okay.  I want to let you know that we will

 

      20        be swearing in the speakers.  We will swear in

 

      21        the applicant and his experts, and then we will

 

      22        swear in the other side and their experts.  They

 

      23        will each be given 15 minutes to speak, and then

 

      24        after that we will open the public comment, and

 

      25        we will give anybody that's not already

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           29

 

 

       1        represented by an attorney, on one side or the

 

       2        other, a minute to speak to get what you need to

 

       3        get out on record.

 

       4             I'll let you know that we have all the

 

       5        information from the Planning Commission meeting

 

       6        last Thursday.  So if you've heard some of the

 

       7        things that have already been said, it's really

 

       8        not necessary to be duplicative.  But if there's

 

       9        any new information you need to add, please feel

 

      10        free to come up and add that.

 

      11             And then afterwards, we will be giving both

 

      12        sides ten minutes to rebut, and then they'll

 

      13        have closing statements.

 

      14             This all being said, let's start off with

 

      15        the Planning Department to give us the report,

 

      16        tell us where we are.

 

      17             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair, members of

 

      18        Council, application for rezoning R-2008-563

 

      19        seeks approval of a rezoning of the old Jerry

 

      20        Hamm automotive dealership on Philips Highway,

 

      21        north of River Oaks Road.

 

      22             The subject property is currently zoned

 

      23        CCG-1 and -2, primarily CCG-2.  There is some CO

 

      24        along the west parcel -- the west area of the

 

      25        parcel that parallels the railroad line.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           30

 

 

       1             The department has reviewed the application

 

       2        for the criteria for the rezoning, in addition

 

       3        to the criteria for a PUD rezoning, and finds

 

       4        that the application is sufficient and finds

 

       5        that it does comply with the criteria and

 

       6        further specifies those goals through the

 

       7        written description dated September 17th and the

 

       8        revised site plan dated September 17th.

 

       9             This item was heard at Planning

 

      10        Commission.  Planning Commission voted to

 

      11        approve the application subject to one

 

      12        modification, which is a fairly major

 

      13        modification to the staff recommendation, which

 

      14        recommended that there be no access from the

 

      15        subject property to and from Summerall Avenue or

 

      16        River Oaks Road.

 

      17             The rest of the conditions were adopted

 

      18        intact, and I can go over those individually or

 

      19        we can proceed.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's just go ahead and go

 

      21        over those amendments that the Planning

 

      22        Commission passed because there may be something

 

      23        that one side or the other want to challenge or

 

      24        speak about.

 

      25             MR. KELLY:  Okay.  Condition 1, "The

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           31

 

 

       1        development shall be subject to the original

 

       2        legal description dated June 23rd, 2008."

 

       3             Condition 2, "The development shall be

 

       4        subject to the revised written description dated

 

       5        September 17th, 2008."

 

       6             Condition 3, "The development shall be

 

       7        subject to the revised site plan dated September

 

       8        17th, 2008."

 

       9             Condition 4, "The development shall be

 

      10        subject to the review and approval of the

 

      11        Development Services Division, pursuant to the

 

      12        memorandum dated September 8th, 2008, except for

 

      13        comment 3 as attached within the memo; and the

 

      14        FDOT memorandum dated July 22nd, 2008, attached;

 

      15        or as otherwise approved by the FDOT and

 

      16        Planning and Development Department."

 

      17             Condition 5, "At the time of verification

 

      18        of substantial compliance a phasing schedule

 

      19        shall be provided to the Planning and

 

      20        Development Department."

 

      21             Condition 6 -- there's a proposed

 

      22        amendment, and I can either read the new

 

      23        proposed condition or the adopted condition.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's just go ahead and read

 

      25        what was adopted in Planning Commission.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           32

 

 

       1             MR. KELLY:  Condition 6 adopted by Planning

 

       2        Commission states, "Prior to any residential

 

       3        development beyond 30 units gross acre, a bus

 

       4        rapid transit station or alternative equivalent

 

       5        JTA commuter transit station facility, including

 

       6        shelter and amenities, shall be completed and

 

       7        operational, subject to the review and approval

 

       8        of the Planning and Development Department."

 

       9             Condition 7, "A roundabout shall contain a

 

      10        fountain feature or a piece of public art."

 

      11             Condition 8, "The applicant shall provide

 

      12        at least one dedicated parking space per

 

      13        multifamily dwelling unit, plus one guest

 

      14        parking space per three multifamily dwelling

 

      15        units or a minimum of 1.25 spaces per dwelling

 

      16        unit."

 

      17             Condition 9, "Sidewalks along Jackson

 

      18        Square Boulevard shall be no less than eight

 

      19        feet in width."

 

      20             Condition 10, "At the time of verification

 

      21        of substantial compliance the applicant will

 

      22        provide a pedestrian plan that shows street

 

      23        trees and street furniture along Jackson Square

 

      24        Boulevard and the perimeter of the landscaping

 

      25        areas fronting Philips Highway."

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           33

 

 

       1             Condition 11, "All entry signage shall be

 

       2        architecturally consistent, of a monument style,

 

       3        and be limited to 200 square feet per sign

 

       4        face."

 

       5             Condition 12, "Signage that advertises

 

       6        multifamily uses shall be nonilluminated or

 

       7        externally illuminated except on Philips Highway

 

       8        or Jackson Square Boulevard where they may be

 

       9        internally illuminated."

 

      10             Condition 13, as adopted from the Planning

 

      11        Commission, "There shall be no access from the

 

      12        subject property to and from Summerall Avenue or

 

      13        River Oaks Road."

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      15             Let us start off with the applicant.

 

      16             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden, you have three

 

      18        minutes to give your opening statement.

 

      19             MR. HARDEN:  Can I pass these out first?

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  Mr. Chair, could I ask a

 

      21        question?

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

      23             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      24             Mr. Kelly, could I ask you a question?

 

      25             MR. KELLY:  (No response.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           34

 

 

       1             MR. HOLT:  Mr. Kelly, could I ask you a

 

       2        question?

 

       3             MR. KELLY:  Sure.

 

       4             MR. HOLT:  Just to make sure I'm perfectly

 

       5        clear on this, your support of this is

 

       6        conditional that River Oaks Boulevard [sic] stay

 

       7        open.  If there were to be an amendment that

 

       8        were to close the access to River Oaks, the

 

       9        Planning Department would not support that; is

 

      10        that true?

 

      11             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

      12             The Planning Department does not support

 

      13        the full closure of access to River Oaks and

 

      14        Summerall.

 

      15             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  I just wanted to make

 

      16        sure I was clear on that.

 

      17             Thank you.

 

      18             MR. JONES:  (Inaudible.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

      20             MR. JONES:  Through the Chair to Mr. Kelly,

 

      21        the Planning Department did not recommend

 

      22        condition number 13; is that correct?

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.  That was

 

      24        brought out at Planning Commission.

 

      25             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Why would you not

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           35

 

 

       1        support that, item 13, the closure -- closing

 

       2        access to River Oaks Road?

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, before we get into

 

       4        that, let's just get the presentations and then

 

       5        we'll get back into the -- to the deep, deepness

 

       6        of it all.

 

       7             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Unless you really have to

 

       9        have that before we go forward.

 

      10             MR. JONES:  No.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Harden.

 

      12             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace

 

      13        Boulevard.

 

      14             I represent Cypress Realty.  Cypress Realty

 

      15        is a major national urban infill developer.

 

      16        Cypress has spent millions of dollars all over

 

      17        the country doing similar urban infill projects

 

      18        that you have before you today.  They spent

 

      19        millions of dollars in anticipation of the

 

      20        cleanup of the Jackson Square site.  In infill

 

      21        projects, you have water, sewer infrastructure

 

      22        that you have to move around, and it causes a

 

      23        great deal of expense.

 

      24             The current status of the property is shown

 

      25        in the handout you have before you.  If you'll

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           36

 

 

       1        look at the inside cover and then follow through

 

       2        with the next three or four pictures, you'll see

 

       3        the existing commercial development, both to the

 

       4        north and south of the project, as well as what

 

       5        will -- previously, the residential housing

 

       6        along the rear of the site, along the railroad.

 

       7             As you, I think, will agree, this is a

 

       8        substantial upgrade to the current status of the

 

       9        property.  The current status of the property is

 

      10        a CCG-2 zoning except for a small strip along

 

      11        the railroad.

 

      12             The most intense commercial zoning allowed

 

      13        under the zoning code is available for use on

 

      14        this site currently.  The classification will

 

      15        allow for intense retail activity 24 hours a day

 

      16        and basically at unlimited heights with

 

      17        setbacks.

 

      18             The suggested design of the current

 

      19        allowable zoning is shown in the handout.

 

      20             An additional potential zoning on the site

 

      21        could be a 15- or 20-story hotel with a lot more

 

      22        than 900 rooms on the site.  It's the intention

 

      23        of Cypress, however, contrary to the current

 

      24        zoning, to build a low-rise, mid-rise, mixed-use

 

      25        development.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           37

 

 

       1             The proposed plan is set forth and shown in

 

       2        the handout you have before you.

 

       3             The proposed use would include a mix of

 

       4        single-family, retail and office use, and would

 

       5        focus around transportation amenities that are

 

       6        shown on the site.

 

       7             Cypress has developed this concept, as well

 

       8        as other developers [sic] in other parts of the

 

       9        country and in Jacksonville, and you have

 

      10        photographs of similar mixed-use products that

 

      11        Cypress has done at other locations.

 

      12             Before you today is a request for an

 

      13        approval of a PUD.  That PUD is consistent with

 

      14        the current land use designation on the site.

 

      15        This is not a change to the future land use

 

      16        map.  The current land use designation allows up

 

      17        to 90 percent residential on the site through

 

      18        the planned unit development.

 

      19             Cypress has developed a vision for the

 

      20        site.  I know it's difficult to visualize

 

      21        knowing what's in the area now, the proposal

 

      22        that Cypress has, but we think that the proposal

 

      23        we have, the vision that Cypress has on the site

 

      24        as shown in juxtaposition to what's on the

 

      25        Philips Highway corridor will jump-start

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           38

 

 

       1        particularly the Philips Highway corridor, and

 

       2        we respectfully request your approval of the

 

       3        application of the PUD.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       5             Mr. Franklin.

 

       6             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have three minutes to

 

       8        give your opening statement as well.

 

       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

 

      10        council members.

 

      11             Tim Franklin, 418 Seagate Avenue, for

 

      12        San Marco Preservation Society.

 

      13             My grandfather used to say, "It only takes

 

      14        a second longer to do something right."  Good

 

      15        advice to me growing up, and I think good advice

 

      16        to the council tonight.

 

      17             What's at stake here on the upside, as Paul

 

      18        said, you do have an opportunity to potentially

 

      19        have a vibrant redevelopment, a cure for urban

 

      20        blight along Philips Highway.  That's a great

 

      21        upside and a potentially great project.

 

      22             The downside is -- we have a golden goose,

 

      23        if you will, in terms of the San Marco

 

      24        neighborhood, that you don't want to kill by

 

      25        approving this project without careful

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           39

 

 

       1        consideration and/or careful conditions.  The

 

       2        project tonight, we have neither one.

 

       3             In terms of the careful consideration of

 

       4        this project, there has been a lack of that from

 

       5        the very outset in terms of the application

 

       6        proposed.  The site plan was a bubble plan,

 

       7        pretty standard, but, however, the written

 

       8        description did not contain the items that the

 

       9        PUD portions of the code require to contain.  It

 

      10        still doesn't contain all those things.  But,

 

      11        despite that, the Planning Department found it

 

      12        to be sufficient and had two public hearings

 

      13        based on that site plan and based on the written

 

      14        description that is very sparse.

 

      15             These things, again, they -- we believe

 

      16        they violate our due process.  Some of these

 

      17        things violate your ordinance code expressly,

 

      18        and violates express- -- other provisions of

 

      19        Florida law, and certainly precludes this

 

      20        committee and council from having competent

 

      21        substantial evidence on which to make a decision

 

      22        in this case.

 

      23             Once they went ahead there, they amended

 

      24        the application.  That violates another specific

 

      25        provision of the ordinance code that says no

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           40

 

 

       1        amendments.  It doesn't say if we accept it,

 

       2        it's not the developer amending it.  It says

 

       3        what it says, no amendments or withdrawals after

 

       4        fees have been paid.  That's been violated.

 

       5             But even with the amendments, there's a lot

 

       6        of critical information lacking in the

 

       7        application.  There's no traffic study, even

 

       8        though the Institute of Transportation Engineers

 

       9        requires -- recommends that -- over 750 trips

 

      10        you do a traffic study.  Not in there.

 

      11             The study that's in there was done for

 

      12        concurrency.  We're going to tell you tonight

 

      13        that that's flawed a little bit.  The DOT study

 

      14        that they did, that was based on misinformation

 

      15        and is flawed.

 

      16             School concurrency information, there's

 

      17        none in there.  We're going to show you tonight

 

      18        that it violates that, and that the fair share

 

      19        that they put in is probably inadequate based on

 

      20        those two things.

 

      21             We're going to also show you that it's a

 

      22        DRI.  In spite of state law requiring it to be

 

      23        considered as a DRI, they're piecemealing it,

 

      24        and that's wrong.

 

      25             There's also no -- they're calling it a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           41

 

 

       1        transit-oriented development.  There's no TOD

 

       2        standards in their PUD.  There's no written

 

       3        phasing.  There's no mixed use requirement in

 

       4        the PUD.  They have an or, or, or.  They could

 

       5        do 90 percent residential here and not a bit of

 

       6        commercial.

 

       7             So those things, we think, haven't been

 

       8        carefully considered and carefully conditioned.

 

       9        We're going to have a list of conditions for you

 

      10        which we'd like you to consider as we go

 

      11        forward.

 

      12             Thank you.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      14             Okay.  We've had the opening statements

 

      15        from both parties.  Now it's time for the

 

      16        applicant.  You have 15 minutes to present your

 

      17        case.

 

      18             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Before you start, I need for

 

      20        you and whichever witnesses you plan on calling

 

      21        to be sworn in by the court reporter.

 

      22             MR. HARDEN:  Well, the witnesses I'm going

 

      23        to call are here, but they'll be in response to

 

      24        anything that's presented by Mr. Franklin.  I'm

 

      25        going to rely on the testimony of the Planning

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           42

 

 

       1        Department.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  So you're going to do it as

 

       3        a rebuttal?

 

       4             MR. HARDEN:  I'm going to speak --

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  But you're not going to

 

       6        bring anybody in your 15 minutes to --

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Correct.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, we need to

 

       9        swear you in, then.

 

      10             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Diane.

 

      12             THE REPORTER:  Do you affirm that the

 

      13        testimony you're about to give will be the

 

      14        truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

 

      15        truth?

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  I do.

 

      17             THE REPORTER:  Thank you.

 

      18             MR. HARDEN:  Let me do some handouts before

 

      19        I start, if you don't mind.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

      21             MR. HARDEN:  (Tenders documents.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Harden.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Let me give Mr. Jones a copy,

 

      24        if I could, Mr. Chairman.

 

      25             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           43

 

 

       1             Just as a preface, in response to

 

       2        Mr. Franklin's comments, there has been a great

 

       3        deal of careful consideration of this proposal.

 

       4        The only amendment which we prepared but we

 

       5        can't amend, you can't amend, was at the

 

       6        specific request of his client.  They asked for

 

       7        five changes to the written description; we put

 

       8        them in there.

 

       9             Now, you can see the comments that -- he

 

      10        thinks he's gearing up for litigation, but we

 

      11        feel very comfortable that the actions of your

 

      12        staff and your professional staff, in the review

 

      13        of this, adequately comply with the law, and

 

      14        we're prepared to defend it.

 

      15             Cypress initially presented the Planning

 

      16        Department, many, many months ago, the Jackson

 

      17        Square concept.  The Planning Department

 

      18        reviewed in great detail the documents

 

      19        presented, and on several occasions requested

 

      20        additional input prior to moving forward with

 

      21        the application.

 

      22             Before presenting the application to you,

 

      23        there was a great deal of research and gathering

 

      24        of information.  The Jackson Square application

 

      25        has not only been the product of many, many

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           44

 

 

       1        hours by the engineers and traffic consultants

 

       2        and planners that Cypress has used to prepare

 

       3        the document, but many, many hours of work by

 

       4        your Planning Department and the Development

 

       5        Services department of the City of

 

       6        Jacksonville.

 

       7             The many hours of work by the Planning

 

       8        Department resulted in a detailed report which

 

       9        contained the imposition of 12 additional

 

      10        conditions, over and above the many conditions

 

      11        that were required by the Planning Department as

 

      12        part of the sufficiency review.  So we went

 

      13        through a review, there were amendments

 

      14        requested to the application before it was

 

      15        presented, and now there are an additional 12

 

      16        conditions on top of that, on top of the five

 

      17        that actually were given to us initially by the

 

      18        San Marco Preservation group.

 

      19             Following the initial written description,

 

      20        we took that input from the San Marco

 

      21        Preservation group and asked you to amend the

 

      22        application for us, which is allowable under the

 

      23        code.

 

      24             One of the specific requests, for example,

 

      25        was a height request that moved from 90 feet

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           45

 

 

       1        down to 70 feet that we agreed to at their

 

       2        request.

 

       3             Following that initial community meeting, a

 

       4        request for a deferral was made by

 

       5        Mr. Franklin's client.  They said they wanted to

 

       6        review the process and meet with us.  That's

 

       7        been over the last -- Councilman Shad said five,

 

       8        I count six weeks, but -- there's been six weeks

 

       9        since the full process was geared up to go

 

      10        forward with this application.

 

      11             During that time, while we did not receive

 

      12        a request for a meeting, we received, from the

 

      13        San Marco Preservation group, a list of

 

      14        questions, which I have referred to as

 

      15        interrogatories, and you have a copy of those.

 

      16             These are questions that were sent to us

 

      17        specifically to glean the information that

 

      18        Mr. Franklin feels wasn't put in the

 

      19        application.  And in all due respect, it's the

 

      20        information the Planning Department thinks they

 

      21        deemed sufficient, but on top of that, they sent

 

      22        us this set of interrogatories, or questions,

 

      23        and those are -- that's information that they

 

      24        felt was left out, and we provided that document

 

      25        to them, now, about two-and-a-half weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           46

 

 

       1             The questions go into great detail about

 

       2        percentages and heights and activity on the

 

       3        site, and that is all included in our

 

       4        application.

 

       5             Two business days ago, I received from the

 

       6        San Marco Preservation group a list of 17

 

       7        additional conditions to burden the site.  Those

 

       8        proposed conditions included nine topics.  Those

 

       9        topics were obviously the River Oaks access, the

 

      10        transit-oriented development information, what

 

      11        they called "clarity," the Jacksonville Journey

 

      12        multifamily housing requirements, parking,

 

      13        phasing, additional height limitations,

 

      14        recreation and landscaping.

 

      15             With regard to the River Oaks issue, in all

 

      16        due respect, we agree with the Planning

 

      17        Department, and I'm going to present you some

 

      18        statistics and make available information to you

 

      19        why we think River Oaks should stay open.

 

      20             With regard to the transit-oriented

 

      21        development, that matter was fully vetted by

 

      22        your planning staff and dealt with by the

 

      23        planning staff.

 

      24             Additionally, the developer is at the mercy

 

      25        of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority on

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           47

 

 

       1        timing with regard to the transit-oriented

 

       2        development.

 

       3             The site plan and written description

 

       4        include a 30-foot-wide right-of-way along the

 

       5        railroad for rapid rail, if and when [sic] such

 

       6        time that's available.

 

       7             The design and site plan include a bus

 

       8        facility that would rival any in the city of

 

       9        Jacksonville for mass transit activity.  Indeed,

 

      10        the Planning Department has added an upgraded

 

      11        condition 6, I believe it is, that becomes more

 

      12        specific about that bus activity and it includes

 

      13        a site plan on the design.

 

      14             So with regard to transit-oriented

 

      15        development, we believe the Planning Department

 

      16        has dealt with that.

 

      17             With regard to River Oaks Road, the -- we

 

      18        just basically disagree.

 

      19             On the other hand, the additional seven

 

      20        topics that were presented to us two days ago

 

      21        were the subject of agreed-upon conditions we

 

      22        agreed to add on to the application.

 

      23             Councilman Shad asked Ms. Eller to reduce

 

      24        those to writing.  She was the scrivener at the

 

      25        meeting.  We agreed to them.  The

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           48

 

 

       1        representatives of San Marco Preservation agreed

 

       2        to them.  And we were agreeable to adding on,

 

       3        again, an additional seven conditions.

 

       4             In all due respect, I think a cursory

 

       5        review of the Planning Department report shows

 

       6        that the issues that were newly raised two

 

       7        business days ago were included in the Planning

 

       8        Department's report, but for accommodation and

 

       9        clarity sake, we were agreeable and agreed to

 

      10        those seven additional conditions.

 

      11             About 20 minutes ago -- or 20 minutes

 

      12        before the agenda meeting, I received a list of

 

      13        an additional ten conditions that reworded the

 

      14        seven conditions that we agreed to just two

 

      15        business days ago.

 

      16             In all due respect, I don't think it's

 

      17        appropriate -- particularly since the Planning

 

      18        Department has vetted all of these issues, we

 

      19        agreed to a set of conditions just two days

 

      20        ago -- to come up with an additional group of

 

      21        conditions that reword things that we dealt with

 

      22        several days ago.

 

      23             This is a very, very reviewed process by

 

      24        the Planning Department.  They dealt with all

 

      25        these issues, and we respectfully request that

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           49

 

 

       1        the conditions Mr. Franklin has mentioned and

 

       2        the new ones that we got an hour ago, after a

 

       3        six-week deferral -- remember, that six-week

 

       4        deferral came after five weeks of scheduled

 

       5        public hearings and meetings.

 

       6             I just don't think it's an appropriate

 

       7        methodology to review the site -- and, in all

 

       8        due respect, the items that are listed were the

 

       9        nine that I went through, are included in the

 

      10        Planning Department report and the conditions

 

      11        that we agreed to at the meeting Councilman Shad

 

      12        prepared.

 

      13             With regard to the remaining issue -- and I

 

      14        think it's been identified -- the River Road

 

      15        [sic] access activity, you can see by the

 

      16        handout that our project will not have a

 

      17        substantial effect on River Oaks Road.

 

      18             Let me -- our traffic engineer is here and

 

      19        will testify if you have questions.

 

      20             River Oaks Road is functioning today at

 

      21        7 percent capacity.  Not 70, Danny Warfel's

 

      22        number, 7 percent capacity on its current

 

      23        activity.

 

      24             The Planning Department, since the Planning

 

      25        Commission activity, has done a traffic study to

 

 

 

 

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       1        make a determination with regard to access to

 

       2        Summerall.  And it's not access directly on

 

       3        River Oaks Road.  There's a stub-out -- you can

 

       4        see on the site plan that's a part of the

 

       5        handout -- it goes between the JEA industrial

 

       6        site and an existing commercial facility that

 

       7        adds Summerall to that site.

 

       8             We believe that the access to Summerall is

 

       9        important for the same reasons the Planning

 

      10        Department does, life safety reasons, you know,

 

      11        police and fire.  Proper planning would suggest

 

      12        that there be some access off the site onto

 

      13        River Oaks to meet the needs of utility and

 

      14        service entrances.  The JEA wants that as the

 

      15        access.  As I told you, we had to deal with a

 

      16        multitude of infrastructure needs there -- and

 

      17        the JEA has their site there at that location --

 

      18        and interconnectivity.

 

      19             The Planning Department and the City of

 

      20        Jacksonville, as Mr. Kelly said, strongly

 

      21        supports the Summerall access.  The folks who

 

      22        don't want that access suggest that it will

 

      23        overburden River Oaks Road.  Again, at 7 percent

 

      24        capacity now.

 

      25             If you will look at the other handout I

 

 

 

 

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       1        handed out to you, that's a report prepared by

 

       2        your Planning Department.  What it says is, with

 

       3        full access to River Oaks Road off Summerall,

 

       4        there will be 29 peak-hour trips coming from

 

       5        this project.

 

       6             If you put what I now know is a chicane on

 

       7        the Summerall access and make sure that you can

 

       8        only do a left in, not a right out -- that would

 

       9        be a limited access -- it would result in

 

      10        24 peak-hour trips onto River Oaks Road.  That's

 

      11        on there.  And then with no access off

 

      12        Summerall, the project will result in

 

      13        19 peak-hour trips.  So the difference between

 

      14        full access and limited access is ten peak-hour

 

      15        trips on a parcel -- on a road that has

 

      16        7 percent capacity currently.

 

      17             Now, I would again suggest that that is a

 

      18        de minimis impact on the site, but don't forget,

 

      19        it's 17 acres of CCG-2 zoned land.  So without

 

      20        this PUD and the project were to be developed

 

      21        consistent with the current zoning -- there's a

 

      22        report from the -- it came out at the Planning

 

      23        Commission meeting -- that says the trips off

 

      24        the site would be about 12,500.  That's a DOT

 

      25        report that the San Marco Preservation group

 

 

 

 

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       1        gave to the Planning Commission.

 

       2             Our project has about 8,000 trips a day.

 

       3        So about two-thirds, using their numbers, of the

 

       4        trips.  So our project, even if you use the full

 

       5        number of trips in the Planning Department's

 

       6        report, it's still 66 percent of what you

 

       7        could -- if the site were developed as currently

 

       8        proposed.  And, in addition, it only burdens an

 

       9        additional five -- excuse me, ten peak-hour

 

      10        trips to the location.

 

      11             In response to questions raised by the

 

      12        community, the Planning Department actually went

 

      13        out to determine what the impact was, and I

 

      14        would respectfully suggest that that's the most

 

      15        competent substantial information that you can

 

      16        have before you on that.

 

      17             We believe it's an unfounded fear that

 

      18        River Oaks Road will be negatively impacted.

 

      19             And while I'm talking about that, I keep

 

      20        hearing rumors and people keep coming back and

 

      21        saying that we want to four-lane River Oaks

 

      22        Road, we want to put in traffic -- parking

 

      23        spaces.  We don't want to do anything to River

 

      24        Oaks Road that the neighbors don't want done.

 

      25             The Planning Department initially suggested

 

 

 

 

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       1        two things:

 

       2             One, traffic calming devices; humps, if you

 

       3        will, on the road.  We said that we would agree

 

       4        to put those in.

 

       5             And, second, a neighborhood identification

 

       6        sign at the railroad track.  As you move -- I

 

       7        think as Sean indicated -- from across the

 

       8        railroad track, to use a euphemism, to the east,

 

       9        you go into a full industrial-zoned and

 

      10        developed area with commercial as you get to

 

      11        Philips Highway.  As you go west across the

 

      12        tracks, it's single-family.  So the Planning

 

      13        Department suggested perhaps identifying that

 

      14        neighborhood would also be a traffic calming

 

      15        activity.

 

      16             So to make our position clear, we don't

 

      17        want to four-lane River Oaks Road.  We don't

 

      18        want to put in additional parking spaces.  We

 

      19        don't want to do anything to River Oaks Road

 

      20        that the folks who live there don't want.

 

      21             If they want the traffic calming devices,

 

      22        we'll be happy to participate as part of the

 

      23        project.

 

      24             It is our hope that you will approve this

 

      25        application as approved by the Planning

 

 

 

 

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       1        Department with the 12 conditions that they

 

       2        proposed as part of their additional -- I guess

 

       3        there's an amended number 6 condition, so the

 

       4        12 conditions as amended by condition number --

 

       5        no it's 8, I'm sorry.  Condition 8.

 

       6             MS. ELLER:  Six.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Six?  All right.  Thank you.

 

       8             Now, on top of that, we are agreeable to

 

       9        the seven conditions that we thought everybody

 

      10        agreed to Friday, that Ms. Eller reduced to

 

      11        writing.

 

      12             In all due respect, we believe the Planning

 

      13        Commission additional condition is not warranted

 

      14        due to the fact of the limited activity on

 

      15        River Oaks now and the limited amount of

 

      16        activity that will be shown by the -- that's

 

      17        shown by the Planning Department's report with

 

      18        regard to the matter.

 

      19             So, with that, I'll close our presentation

 

      20        and certainly be happy to answer any questions

 

      21        at the appropriate time.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

      23             I think -- do I take -- cross-examine now

 

      24        of the applicant?

 

      25             MS. ELLER:  If Tim has anything to say.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you have five

 

       2        minutes to cross-examine.

 

       3             Mr. Harden, don't go too far.

 

       4             MR. HARDEN:  I'm not.  I'm just staying out

 

       5        of --

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  It may work a little easier

 

       7        if -- Mr. Crofts, if you can give him your mic.

 

       8             MR. CROFTS:  (Complies.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  That way we don't have to

 

      10        worry about Mr. Harden hitting you.

 

      11             MR. FRANKLIN:  First of all, Mr. Harden,

 

      12        talking about the --

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  Tim, I'm not going to hit you.

 

      14             MR. FRANKLIN:  Pardon?

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  I'm not going to hit you.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  He's not going to hit you.

 

      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  Oh.  Thank you.

 

      18             Talking about the deferral, isn't it a fact

 

      19        that at least two of the weeks of the deferral

 

      20        were due to the councilman's request and another

 

      21        week was at the request for you on vacation?

 

      22             MR. HARDEN:  No.

 

      23             The original request for deferral came at

 

      24        the request of San Marco Preservation standing

 

      25        here at a public meeting before the LUZ

 

 

 

 

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       1        Committee.  That resulted in a hearing that was

 

       2        set for Tuesday night where I had a meeting with

 

       3        Lehman Brothers in New York City that had been

 

       4        planned for about three months.  Unfortunately,

 

       5        it was the day after they went bankrupt.  And so

 

       6        I couldn't be here on that night.  It was a

 

       7        meeting I couldn't change.  And it was said at

 

       8        that time, it won't be a two-week deferral

 

       9        because there's a fifth week; it will be a

 

      10        five-week deferral.  Ultimately, it worked out

 

      11        to be a six-week deferral.

 

      12             So it was never at my request.  It was

 

      13        never for a vacation.  It was never at a

 

      14        councilman's request.  It was at Ms. Boyer's

 

      15        request.

 

      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Isn't it a fact,

 

      17        though, that during the deferral on September

 

      18        17th that that's when we actually received a

 

      19        revised site plan and a revised written

 

      20        description, was during the deferral period?

 

      21             MR. HARDEN:  During the deferral period we

 

      22        had already scheduled a meeting with generally

 

      23        the River Oaks community, with some San Marco

 

      24        Preservation folks at the site.

 

      25             We went to that meeting.  I went to the

 

 

 

 

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       1        meeting.  Mr. Cissel was there, all of our

 

       2        consultants were there.

 

       3             At that time, there were requests for five

 

       4        changes to the site plan and five -- or five

 

       5        changes to the written description and site

 

       6        plan.  We accommodated those requests.  If you

 

       7        want them taken back out, we'll be happy to do

 

       8        that, if you think that's a change.  So I'm

 

       9        offering to do that.  If they prefer to stick

 

      10        with the original site plan and written

 

      11        description, we're happy to do that.

 

      12             But, yes, that's when it happened, at the

 

      13        request of your clients.  But if you want to

 

      14        take it back, we'll take it back.

 

      15             MR. FRANKLIN:  No.  We'll keep them in.

 

      16             You had mentioned, Paul, in talking about

 

      17        how many of the changed conditions and things

 

      18        like that and talking about the seven conditions

 

      19        at the meeting of Friday -- isn't it a fact that

 

      20        those seven conditions were essentially proposed

 

      21        as part of the list by San Marco at the Planning

 

      22        Commission the day before?

 

      23             The seven conditions talked about on

 

      24        Friday -- at the meeting with Councilman Shad on

 

      25        Friday, came from the list of conditions

 

 

 

 

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       1        tendered to the Planning Commission the day

 

       2        before at the public hearing?

 

       3             MR. HARDEN:  I don't think it was the day

 

       4        before the -- because there was a fifth week,

 

       5        Planning Commission met a week before that.

 

       6             MR. FRANKLIN:  A week before that, that's

 

       7        correct.

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  And at that time they tendered

 

       9        a list of, I think, 14 conditions.  Those were a

 

      10        different set of conditions that were tendered

 

      11        at the meeting and yet a different set of

 

      12        conditions that were tendered today.

 

      13             They dealt with the same subjects, to

 

      14        answer your question.  Councilman Shad had us go

 

      15        through the entire list.  He asked what we could

 

      16        agree on.  Things we couldn't agree on, we

 

      17        didn't discuss.  Things that we could agree

 

      18        on --

 

      19             Ms. Eller was the scrivener.  I didn't

 

      20        write them down.  She wrote down what the

 

      21        agreements were, and we agreed to those.  In

 

      22        fact, there were some pretty substantial

 

      23        concessions on height and landscaping and that

 

      24        sort of stuff.

 

      25             And, you know, we thought that was a

 

 

 

 

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       1        resolution of the matter, but the topics were

 

       2        the same, the conditions were different I think

 

       3        is the answer to your question.

 

       4             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Talking about some of

 

       5        the -- the access to River Road [sic] issues

 

       6        that you mentioned, you mentioned one that JEA,

 

       7        for utility service entrances --

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.

 

       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  -- and access, didn't -- JEA

 

      10        owns a piece of property on the southwest

 

      11        corner, where the water plant is?

 

      12             MR. HARDEN:  JEA, yeah.

 

      13             MR. FRANKLIN:  And that property is

 

      14        actually under contract to be a part of, I

 

      15        guess, an integrated development?

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  Well, yeah.

 

      17             You can see on the site plan the location

 

      18        of the JEA facility.  It's out-moded

 

      19        infrastructure facility.

 

      20             As part of our activity, we've agreed to

 

      21        update some of the infrastructure there, but the

 

      22        JEA will -- you know, it's not just for our

 

      23        capacity.  It would be capacity for the whole

 

      24        San Marco/Philips Highway area, so it would

 

      25        accommodate, you know, some portion -- small

 

 

 

 

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       1        portion for our project as well, yes.

 

       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Just my point -- only

 

       3        point was going to be if JEA needed access to

 

       4        the property, you guys could agree to put a

 

       5        fence somewhere between their property and yours

 

       6        to allow some kind of emergency additional

 

       7        access that wouldn't be an ingress/egress point

 

       8        for the entire development?

 

       9             MR. HARDEN:  Certainly we could allow that,

 

      10        and that -- be happy to do that.

 

      11             That's not the Planning Commission

 

      12        condition.  They conditioned it -- cutting it

 

      13        off at Summerall, which would require immediate

 

      14        access from the JEA off of River Oaks Road, not

 

      15        Summerall.

 

      16             Currently, the JEA goes out on Summerall

 

      17        and then to River Oaks Road.  That's their

 

      18        access.  If you were to cut off the Summerall

 

      19        access, they'd have to go out onto River Oaks

 

      20        Road directly.

 

      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  I think the JEA

 

      22        property is actually to the southwest, so I

 

      23        don't think they access off of Summerall.  I

 

      24        think it's River Oaks, but -- just meaning

 

      25        that they could --

 

 

 

 

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       1             You mentioned a life safety issue.  Isn't

 

       2        it true that for multifamily housing that one of

 

       3        the recommendations of life safety and of

 

       4        anticrime initiatives is that you limit access

 

       5        and to have a central access point rather than

 

       6        have multiple accesses to a large multifamily

 

       7        facility such as this?

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  Well, one of the requested

 

       9        conditions -- I think it actually came from

 

      10        Councilman Joost, but they added it in, was that

 

      11        we comply with the Jacksonville Journey

 

      12        conditions with regard to multifamily and

 

      13        controlled access -- it's not limited access,

 

      14        controlled access -- so that at each location

 

      15        where there is an access it would be

 

      16        controlled.  I don't think limiting it to one

 

      17        door is what they're proposing.

 

      18             Life safety, if you have Philips Highway --

 

      19        say you have a bad wreck on Philips Highway and

 

      20        it blocks the Philips Highway entrance and you

 

      21        want to get in for a fire truck on River Oaks

 

      22        Road, that's what I mean by life safety issues.

 

      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  And the proposal has

 

      24        two other entrances to the north --

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, your five

 

 

 

 

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       1        minutes are up.

 

       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.

 

       3             MR. HARDEN:  I'll stand here and answer

 

       4        questions as long as he likes, Mr. Chairman.

 

       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  I only had one more, if I

 

       6        could get one more.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll let you get that last

 

       8        one.

 

       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      10             And if you could answer the one I just

 

      11        asked, if there are two entrances on Mark and

 

      12        Mitchell to the north.

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  That's correct.

 

      14             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Last question, Paul.

 

      15             You mentioned about the -- projected

 

      16        somewhere between five -- or excuse me -- yeah,

 

      17        five or ten additional peak-hour trips,

 

      18        depending upon the -- based on Mr. Kelly's

 

      19        methodology.  The average --

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  Whose methodology?

 

      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Was it Ms. King?

 

      22             MR. HARDEN:  Oh.

 

      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  I'm not sure.  Did Ms. King

 

      24        prepare that?

 

      25             I know that it was --

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. KELLY:  (Inaudible.)

 

       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  We'll come back to that.

 

       3             My question was, by the department's

 

       4        methodology on the average daily trips on it,

 

       5        it's approximated to be about 850, 847; is that

 

       6        about right?

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  I don't have those numbers in

 

       8        front of me.

 

       9             I only dealt with the peak-hour trips on

 

      10        River Oaks Road.  Those are, 19 with no access,

 

      11        24 with the chicane or the one-way-in,

 

      12        one-way-out access, and 29 with full access,

 

      13        which by mathematical -- means 10 additional

 

      14        peak-hour trips on the project -- on the road,

 

      15        that, as I said, is 7 percent of its current

 

      16        capacity.

 

      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      19             Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  Thanks.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you have

 

      22        15 minutes to present your case.

 

      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      24             Briefly, if I could, before I start, I've

 

      25        got some -- I guess the latest and greatest that

 

 

 

 

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       1        Paul was talking about, he received a little bit

 

       2        ago, the set of conditions.

 

       3             We sent these out yesterday, but if I could

 

       4        pass these out here.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

       6             MR. FRANKLIN:  I think there should be

 

       7        sufficient copies.  If there's not, I have more.

 

       8             Let me say this:  The intent with the

 

       9        conditions, as Paul had said, they -- they've

 

      10        stayed the same.  We've basically got about six

 

      11        little areas, landscape, transit-orient [sic],

 

      12        access to River Oaks Road.

 

      13             The conditions really haven't changed from

 

      14        what we proposed at Planning Commission.  We

 

      15        have simply consolidated them to make them

 

      16        easier to read.  There are one or two that we

 

      17        tightened up a little bit on them, some of the

 

      18        language.  There were one or two that we

 

      19        actually relaxed to allow a little more -- for

 

      20        example, we had proposed, I believe -- for

 

      21        instance, one condition, 276 units with 20,000

 

      22        retail.  We now said up to 300 units with 18,000

 

      23        retail.

 

      24             So we -- they're essentially the same

 

      25        conditions, committee members.  There's nothing

 

 

 

 

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       1        new here, no surprises, if you will.  We're just

 

       2        at a standstill on getting agreement on these

 

       3        conditions.

 

       4             In the first condition Mr. Harden had spoke

 

       5        of, you know, the River Oaks access, the --

 

       6        actually, the Planning Commission -- and I've

 

       7        got the transcript here.  Paul said, we will

 

       8        work with you on whatever condition you come up

 

       9        with.  And there was a couple of comments to

 

      10        that perspective at Planning Commission.  I

 

      11        mean, whatever you want to do, that road is

 

      12        not -- several commissioners suggested it wasn't

 

      13        vital to the project.  It's not a necessity, so

 

      14        why do it.  Paul said -- and I could quote him,

 

      15        but -- and I will just for fun:

 

      16             "We're going to accept whatever solution

 

      17        you-all propose."

 

      18             Mr. Hardesty:  "Fair enough."

 

      19             They accepted at Planning Commission and

 

      20        now they're here telling you it is a do-or-die

 

      21        issue.  Well, I'm here to tell you it's a

 

      22        do-or-die issue for this neighborhood.  That

 

      23        condition, above everything else that you're

 

      24        looking at today, that is the one that the

 

      25        neighborhood needs.  That's the one they believe

 

 

 

 

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       1        is going to be most critical to the preservation

 

       2        of San Marco.

 

       3             Again, let's face it, that's the reason

 

       4        they want to build this project here, is because

 

       5        it's a very successful TND neighborhood.

 

       6        There's bungalows, there's mansions on the

 

       7        river, there's rental properties, owner-occupied

 

       8        properties, all in a nice, mixed-use area with a

 

       9        great mix of retail, service, restaurants,

 

      10        office, and it works.  And that's why they want

 

      11        to be close to it.  And we -- we're going to

 

      12        protect that.

 

      13             So that condition, just looking at that

 

      14        one, River Oaks, we -- we do think that that's

 

      15        very important.

 

      16             And I do have a couple of questions for

 

      17        staff, and I may -- I don't know exactly who I'm

 

      18        going to call on yet, if we can maybe have them

 

      19        sworn in, Mr. Chairman.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  You want to swear in the

 

      21        staff?

 

      22             MR. FRANKLIN:  I would like to.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Speaking of -- stop the

 

      24        clock for a second.  We didn't swear you in.

 

      25             THE REPORTER:  Do you affirm that the

 

 

 

 

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       1        testimony you're about to give will be the

 

       2        truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

 

       3        truth?

 

       4             MR. FRANKLIN:  I do.

 

       5             THE REPORTER:  Thank you.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, since you're there,

 

       7        let's get the staff -- go ahead.  Put your arms

 

       8        up, all of you.  You too, Shannon.

 

       9             Go ahead.  Do it again.

 

      10             THE REPORTER:  Do you affirm that the

 

      11        testimony you're about to give will be the

 

      12        truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

 

      13        truth?

 

      14             (Mr. Kelly, Mr. Huxford, Mr. Avery,

 

      15        Mr. Crofts, and Ms. Eller respond

 

      16        affirmatively.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.

 

      18             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you.

 

      19             And let me say too, you know, we -- this is

 

      20        not the -- Paul would participate in the

 

      21        meeting -- chicanery or that the developer is

 

      22        not trustworthy and reputable.  These people are

 

      23        all trustworthy and reputable people.  The

 

      24        question here is -- our real concern -- and I

 

      25        think it's apparent now -- we're worried about

 

 

 

 

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       1        market changes.  We're worried about what

 

       2        happens if the worst thing happens.  What

 

       3        happens if there's a successor developer here or

 

       4        a bank that is the developer of this project,

 

       5        what conditions are going to be on them to make

 

       6        this thing work?  Are they going to widdle it

 

       7        down to the best possible alternative?

 

       8             Those things happen.  We've just seen it

 

       9        happen, and so it's not some far off concept of,

 

      10        yeah, but it will probably be okay.  No, it's

 

      11        happening.  So you don't want it to happen at

 

      12        this prime location.  That's why we're

 

      13        suggesting these conditions.

 

      14             But I'd like to ask, I guess, Sean Kelly a

 

      15        few questions about some of the traffic issues

 

      16        because that's our -- that's what's at stake

 

      17        here on River Oaks Road.

 

      18             Mr. Kelly, do you have a copy of the -- I

 

      19        guess it would be the table 1 trip generation

 

      20        that was prepared in the original report?  This

 

      21        one, Sean, where it comes up with total of 8,496

 

      22        new trips, if you will, or daily trips on the

 

      23        property?

 

      24             MR. KELLY:  I've got a copy of trip

 

      25        generation table 1, but it's dated October 2nd,

 

 

 

 

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       1        2008.

 

       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  What final number do

 

       3        you have on that -- or what number comes up?

 

       4             MR. KELLY:  Average daily trips --

 

       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Yes.

 

       6             MR. KELLY:  -- or p.m. peak hour?

 

       7             MR. FRANKLIN:  I'd go with the average

 

       8        daily.

 

       9             MR. KELLY:  Daily trips are 8,496.

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  So we're coming up

 

      11        with essentially the same numbers.

 

      12             A couple of questions about that real

 

      13        quickly, Sean.

 

      14             First one, if you look in the -- and,

 

      15        council members, this is in some of your

 

      16        original materials too, but --

 

      17             There's an internal capture rate that

 

      18        they're using to come up with the number of

 

      19        trips.  Apartments, there's 17.74; commercial,

 

      20        13.08; general office, 8.58.  My question to

 

      21        Sean, where did -- does that internal capture

 

      22        rate, is that related to the mix of commercial

 

      23        to residential?  Is that related to being a

 

      24        mixed-use development?

 

      25             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  My question, then, is

 

       2        that based on the maximum -- or I guess the

 

       3        target of 65 percent residential and 35 percent

 

       4        commercial, is that where that internal capture

 

       5        rate comes from?

 

       6             MR. KELLY:  That internal capture rate is

 

       7        based on the concurrency application and the

 

       8        number of dwelling units and square feet of

 

       9        office and square feet of commercial.

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Which is essentially about a

 

      11        65/35 mix, if I'm correct on that, residential

 

      12        to -- gross floor area of commercial and office;

 

      13        is that about right?

 

      14             MR. KELLY:  It depends on how big the units

 

      15        are.

 

      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Well, let me just ask

 

      17        it this way:  Using whatever units, is there

 

      18        anything in the PUD that would require them to

 

      19        build or not build a certain number of

 

      20        residential units or a certain number of

 

      21        commercial units?

 

      22             MR. KELLY:  The PUD deals with maximum

 

      23        amounts of residential units and maximum amounts

 

      24        of commercial and office.

 

      25             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  But, in other words,

 

 

 

 

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       1        the -- the PUD, as I read the written

 

       2        description, simply says a mix of this

 

       3        residential or office or retail.  It doesn't

 

       4        require them to build a mixed-use development,

 

       5        in fact?

 

       6             MR. KELLY:  The underlying land use would

 

       7        require the mixed-use development.  The CGC land

 

       8        use cannot be single -- residential use.

 

       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  But it could be up to

 

      10        90 percent residential and 10 percent

 

      11        commercial, and they'd be in compliance with the

 

      12        comp plan and the PUD, correct?

 

      13             MR. KELLY:  No.  The site plan specifically

 

      14        shows designated commercial/retail uses on the

 

      15        first floor of the buildings in Phase I and

 

      16        Phase II, so I'd say that ultimately 10 percent

 

      17        would be inconsistent with the site plan which

 

      18        generates a larger percentage.

 

      19             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, that's assuming that

 

      20        the site plan is multistory or assuming, the

 

      21        residential, they could go up four stories

 

      22        and -- they could go up actually to 75 feet with

 

      23        the residential and first floor commercial, and

 

      24        they would be about 90 and 10 percent?

 

      25             In other words, your assumption is based on

 

 

 

 

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       1        them building equal amounts of commercial and

 

       2        residential, I guess, floors, if you will, in

 

       3        each space, Sean?

 

       4             MR. KELLY:  No.  I mean, the assumption is

 

       5        based on the site plan and the specific

 

       6        dimensions of the office component, building,

 

       7        which is, I believe, a -- a one- or two-story

 

       8        building at the northeast end of the development

 

       9        and then based upon the commercial ground floor

 

      10        retail components along Jackson Square Boulevard

 

      11        and the Philips Highway frontage.

 

      12             MR. FRANKLIN:  That site plan is just a

 

      13        floor plan?  It doesn't show any heights or

 

      14        story buildings on that?  That is merely a floor

 

      15        plan --

 

      16             MR. KELLY:  It's a horizontal plan.

 

      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  It's not elevations, so

 

      18        there's no -- there's no actual limitations on

 

      19        that site plan that would require all those to

 

      20        be one story or all to be four?  Some could be

 

      21        four, some could be one?  And no particular

 

      22        building is required to be any certain height or

 

      23        size, correct?

 

      24             MR. KELLY:  There's maximum heights set out

 

      25        in the written description.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. FRANKLIN:  Right.  But the site plan

 

       2        doesn't require any particular building to be

 

       3        any certain height?

 

       4             MR. KELLY:  (Nods head.)

 

       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  The other thing I

 

       6        wanted to ask you about, Mr. Kelly, just real

 

       7        quick.  Same memorandum -- or same table showing

 

       8        certain land use codes there for the traffic

 

       9        generation.  We're showing an 843 and a 942,

 

      10        automotive parts sales credit, automotive care

 

      11        center credit.  Are you familiar with that?

 

      12             MR. KELLY:  (Nods head.)

 

      13             MR. FRANKLIN:  They're being given a credit

 

      14        on those.

 

      15             Aren't those land use codes associated more

 

      16        frequently with Auto Zones and other stores?

 

      17             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

      18             That is credit from the previous use of the

 

      19        property.

 

      20             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Isn't it true,

 

      21        though, that the land use code 841, new car

 

      22        sales, would include as a component a

 

      23        substantial amount of used car sales and also

 

      24        parts and accessories and servicing under that

 

      25        land use code for just the new automotive

 

 

 

 

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       1        sales?

 

       2             MR. KELLY:  I would have to look at the ITE

 

       3        definition of what that entailed, but it seems

 

       4        plausible.

 

       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, I'm going to turn in,

 

       6        if I can, Mr. Chairman, a -- just a brief table

 

       7        prepared by Richard McCubbin, former City

 

       8        traffic engineer.  Mr. McCubbin has basically

 

       9        estimated a couple of things here, but the big

 

      10        one being that -- using those numbers, come up

 

      11        with about -- approximately 400 more trips by

 

      12        reducing the credit they're getting because a

 

      13        new car place has used car sales and it has

 

      14        automotive service, so they're giving too great

 

      15        of a credit with that.

 

      16             So I'd like to tender this for the record,

 

      17        if I could.

 

      18             Last question for Mr. Kelly.

 

      19             The DOT memorandum, Mr. Kelly, that they

 

      20        turned in, are you familiar with that?  It's

 

      21        actually addressed to Aaron Glick, dated July

 

      22        22nd, 2008.

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  I've got it.

 

      24             MR. FRANKLIN:  Could I get a time count?

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have five-and-a-half

 

 

 

 

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       1        minutes.

 

       2             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Very quickly.  The

 

       3        FDOT generated their numbers by using

 

       4        approximately -- about 264,000 of retail, and

 

       5        it's correct, they came up -- they estimated

 

       6        12,761 trips based on that amount of retail,

 

       7        correct?

 

       8             MR. KELLY:  They used land use ITE code

 

       9        820.

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  A shopping center?

 

      11             MR. KELLY:  Correct.

 

      12             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  And we're using a

 

      13        retail code and office -- we're using

 

      14        approximately 150 of retail, 200 of office, and

 

      15        900 residential units, and coming up with 8,400

 

      16        or Richard's number is about 8,800, whichever

 

      17        you accept, correct?  Based on table 3 in

 

      18        Richard's memorandum.

 

      19             MR. KELLY:  Correct.

 

      20             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Thanks.

 

      21             Real quick, just basically three questions

 

      22        for Shannon, if I could -- Ms. Eller.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

      24             MR. FRANKLIN:  Through the Chair to

 

      25        Ms. Eller.  Shannon, a PUD ordinance is a

 

 

 

 

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       1        development order under Florida Statutes?

 

       2             MS. ELLER:  Yes.

 

       3             MR. FRANKLIN:  And development orders,

 

       4        generally under -- mainly rule 9J-5, are

 

       5        required to meet concurrency -- or to use the

 

       6        laymen's terms, required to be concurrent with

 

       7        the impacts measured under 9J-5, all development

 

       8        orders?

 

       9             MS. ELLER:  Yes.

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  And just -- last

 

      11        question.  Schools are an element now under

 

      12        state law of concurrency?

 

      13             MS. ELLER:  Yes.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,

 

      15        Ms. Eller.

 

      16             Just like to turn this in for the record.

 

      17        It's an e-mail.  Some of you may have this

 

      18        already.  It's from John Loehnert of Duval

 

      19        schools to Councilman Shad, just referencing the

 

      20        fact that at present the two -- elementary

 

      21        school and the high school are over capacity,

 

      22        where they would be going to.

 

      23             Now, we know we're going through

 

      24        redistricting, and that's all fine, but it's --

 

      25        it's well and good to say, well, we're going

 

 

 

 

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       1        through redistricting.  That doesn't take care

 

       2        of the problem that this PUD has never been

 

       3        through concurrency.

 

       4             The fact that concurrency has been done for

 

       5        the property is fine.  The fact that that was

 

       6        filed before school concurrency was an element

 

       7        of our concurrency office analysis, that's all

 

       8        well and good, but this PUD is actually

 

       9        approving residential units and has to be

 

      10        verified to be concurrent and meeting the

 

      11        impacts.  If not, it's a violation of state law,

 

      12        and it's going to be -- it's going to be

 

      13        rejected on that basis.

 

      14             The better question is, why would you want

 

      15        to approve something not knowing if it's going

 

      16        to impact the schools?  We don't know yet which

 

      17        schools when the redistricting goes forward, so

 

      18        why wouldn't you put a requirement in the PUD

 

      19        that they go through, at the end of the day, and

 

      20        be required to show that they meet the impacts?

 

      21             Right now, before redistricting, they

 

      22        wouldn't.

 

      23             Another issue that comes up again -- and

 

      24        you may have some of these in the file.  I'll

 

      25        turn these in for the record (indicating).

 

 

 

 

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       1             Just parts of the CCAS applications and

 

       2        concurrency management office applications show

 

       3        this as one aggregate development.  You actually

 

       4        have commonality of developers with this

 

       5        project, this PUD, and the project across the

 

       6        street.

 

       7             We believe that this project here is right

 

       8        under the DRI thresholds by itself.  I mean,

 

       9        we're talking about one or two units or one or

 

      10        two square feet.

 

      11             If you go across for a mixed-use project --

 

      12        if you go across the street and include that,

 

      13        it's way over, way over.  And we believe we have

 

      14        commonality of development.  They have a common

 

      15        development plan, commonality of the developers,

 

      16        and we believe this is going to constitute a

 

      17        DRI, where a traffic study would be required and

 

      18        all sorts of other things under state law,

 

      19        notwithstanding whatever the City code

 

      20        required.

 

      21             But you've got to ask yourself why none of

 

      22        these things are being requested in this case,

 

      23        traffic studies and those sort of things,

 

      24        privately, just to see what the impacts are on

 

      25        the street.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Another issue, we -- one of our conditions,

 

       2        you'll see, has to do with phasing.  I'd like to

 

       3        turn in some of these -- they've essentially

 

       4        said in Phase I they need 281 units.  We're very

 

       5        close to that in what we've suggested in

 

       6        phasing.

 

       7             The phasing will actually go through and

 

       8        ensure that this is going to be a mixed-use

 

       9        project.

 

      10             The last, really, issues -- landscaping is

 

      11        kind of off the table.  Rec/open space, as long

 

      12        as they meet the comprehensive plan.

 

      13             Some of the bigger things -- if it's going

 

      14        to be a transit-oriented development, why not

 

      15        have those conditions in the PUD and the written

 

      16        description?

 

      17             This doesn't have anything referencing

 

      18        Part 14 that the council adopted just very

 

      19        recently.  There's no requirement that they meet

 

      20        any of those standards.

 

      21             Again, it makes little sense to tout it as

 

      22        a transit-oriented development and not have any

 

      23        of those things in there.  We would ask that you

 

      24        require them to meet those conditions.

 

      25             The height limit, again, makes a lot of

 

 

 

 

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       1        sense.  It's a buffer now, should stay a buffer.

 

       2             The bottom line:  River Oaks Road, that's a

 

       3        concern we have.  That's the major concern.  A

 

       4        huge amount of trips on that road.  It's not a

 

       5        question of peak-hour trips; it's a question of

 

       6        the average daily trips, about 850 to 880, at a

 

       7        minimum, on that road, in addition to what there

 

       8        are now.  That's the thing that's going to

 

       9        impact the neighborhood.  Those are the trips

 

      10        that need to be precluded, under the comp plan,

 

      11        from intruding into this neighborhood.

 

      12             You have an opportunity to do it.  Planning

 

      13        Commission did it.  All you have to do is accept

 

      14        it.  It won't kill the deal.  They'll find a way

 

      15        to do this with that access, and so we'd ask you

 

      16        to do it because this is -- that's the do-or-die

 

      17        deal for this neighborhood, and they're going to

 

      18        protect it and stand up for it.

 

      19             Thank you.

 

      20             Otherwise, we'll -- let me say this:

 

      21        Otherwise, you know, with these conditions in

 

      22        here, this turns into a very viable, good

 

      23        project.  We just want to make sure it ends up

 

      24        being transit-oriented.  We want to make sure

 

      25        it's consistent with the existing residential

 

 

 

 

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       1        neighborhood.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, your

 

       3        15 minutes is up and you'll have five minutes at

 

       4        the end to conclude.

 

       5             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's what it sounds like

 

       7        you were doing now.

 

       8             MR. FRANKLIN:  Yeah.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Hold on a second.

 

      10             Mr. Harden, do you have any

 

      11        cross-examination?

 

      12             MR. HARDEN:  Can I cross-examine Mr. Kelly,

 

      13        his witness?

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  You can do Mr. Kelly when

 

      15        you do the rebuttal.

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  That was his witness.  I was

 

      17        going to --

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Sure.  Fair enough.

 

      19             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Kelly, have you reviewed

 

      20        the traffic report that the Planning Department

 

      21        did?

 

      22             MR. KELLY:  The trip generation table?

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.

 

      24             MR. KELLY:  Yes.

 

      25             MR. HARDEN:  Notwithstanding Mr. Franklin's

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        comments, do you believe it to be accurate?

 

       2             MR. KELLY:  Yes.

 

       3             MR. HARDEN:  Is there anything that he said

 

       4        that would make you think that the information

 

       5        contained in your very thorough report is

 

       6        inaccurate?

 

       7             MR. KELLY:  No.

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  Do you stand by the

 

       9        information in there?

 

      10             MR. KELLY:  Absolutely.

 

      11             MR. HARDEN:  What is the difference in

 

      12        peak-hour trips on that report for a full access

 

      13        on Summerall and no access on Summerall?

 

      14             MR. KELLY:  It's ten net trips.

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.  That's all I have.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      17             Now --

 

      18             MR. FRANKLIN:  Real quick.  Normally you

 

      19        get redirect.  I just have one question of

 

      20        Mr. Kelly.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  You will get rebuttal time.

 

      22             Hold on.  I'm following the rules.

 

      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, we are -- we're going

 

      25        to public comment, and then after we're done

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           83

 

 

       1        with public comment, both you and Harden get ten

 

       2        minutes rebuttal time.

 

       3             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Well, let me ask

 

       4        this -- can I direct a question through the

 

       5        Chair to General Counsel?

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Write it down.  You can hit

 

       7        them on your rebuttal time.

 

       8             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Public comment.  Do

 

      10        we have cards?

 

      11             MS. ALLEN:  (Tenders speakers' cards.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, as I call you up,

 

      13        you'll each get a minute to speak.  Please try

 

      14        not to be repetitive.

 

      15             Now, I'm not going to be a tyrant and cut

 

      16        you off right at a minute, but you'll see the

 

      17        clock in front of you.  You know when you're

 

      18        running over.

 

      19             We understand this is very emotional.  We

 

      20        understand a lot of it -- this is the first time

 

      21        you've ever come to this kind of process and

 

      22        spoke, so relax, take your time.  If you go

 

      23        over, just please don't be duplicative and don't

 

      24        be repetitive, but we're here to hear you.

 

      25             Estelle Vickery, followed by Robin

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           84

 

 

       1        Robinson.

 

       2             And as I call your name, just come up

 

       3        forward.

 

       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Estelle had to leave.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let the record show

 

       6        that Estelle is not here.

 

       7             MR. ELSON:  I've got her written comments

 

       8        if you --

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

      10             MR. ELSON:  (Tenders document.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Robin Robinson, followed by

 

      12        Carol Hinckley -- Carolyn Hinckley, sorry.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am.

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Robin

 

      16        Robinson.  I live at 1573 Marco Place.

 

      17             I support the redevelopment of this

 

      18        blighted piece of property, but not without

 

      19        knowing what is being proposed.  The internal

 

      20        inconsistencies in the description in this PUD

 

      21        application have caused massive confusion to the

 

      22        members of our community that are going to be

 

      23        affected by it.

 

      24             I was raised out West, and we pride

 

      25        ourselves on straight talk out there.  We have a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           85

 

 

       1        saying that says, "Say what you mean and mean

 

       2        what you say."  I wish, sincerely, that that

 

       3        applied to this application.

 

       4             I have heard the developer's words.  I've

 

       5        seen his pretty pictures and his site plan, and

 

       6        they don't match, and this is of great concern

 

       7        to me.

 

       8             For example, is this residential use only

 

       9        multifamily or can it be single-family as well?

 

      10        The written description says one thing in one

 

      11        place and another thing in another.  The site

 

      12        plan depicts only multifamily.

 

      13             The traffic generated by the single-family

 

      14        is double that for multifamily, yet only

 

      15        multifamily was evaluated by the staff.

 

      16             The appropriate lot coverage, setbacks, and

 

      17        parking also differ greatly between the two

 

      18        uses.

 

      19             The written description says the

 

      20        residential development will be in accordance

 

      21        with the RHD-B zoning category.  And the staff

 

      22        report, in discussion, repeats that statement.

 

      23             The minimum lot requirements, maximum lot

 

      24        coverage, minimum yard requirements, and

 

      25        permissible uses stated in the written

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           86

 

 

       1        description are all inconsistent with RHD-B.

 

       2             Absent a condition resolving these and

 

       3        other inconsistencies between the written

 

       4        description and the site plan, the rezoning is

 

       5        vague, misleading, and much of the analyses of

 

       6        the application is unsupported.

 

       7             If the written description were to override

 

       8        RHD-B requirements in the site plan, this

 

       9        rezoning would fall as inconsistent with the

 

      10        comprehensive plan, both internally and

 

      11        externally.

 

      12             The staff finding of consistency with the

 

      13        comprehensive plan is expressly based on RHD

 

      14        compliance and the depiction in the site plan.

 

      15        Therefore, I support the inclusion of a

 

      16        condition suggested by San Marco Preservation

 

      17        Society that the site plan must be deemed to

 

      18        control over the written description.

 

      19             I also support the other conditions which

 

      20        have been requested by the San Marco

 

      21        Preservation Society.

 

      22             Based on what I've heard tonight, I believe

 

      23        this PUD violates Florida law, Jacksonville

 

      24        ordinances, and the 2010 Comprehensive Plan.

 

      25             Unless you adopt the conditions recommended

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           87

 

 

       1        by the San Marco Preservation Society, I believe

 

       2        that this application must be denied.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

       4             Carolyn, followed by Rob -- it looks like

 

       5        Smith or Sluth.

 

       6             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am.

 

       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Carolyn Hinckley, 1545

 

       9        Marco Place.

 

      10             MR. HARDEN:  Excuse me.  Before you start,

 

      11        ma'am.

 

      12             Mr. Chairman.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, sir.

 

      14             MR. HARDEN:  The San Marco Preservation

 

      15        Society is represented by Mr. Franklin.  You

 

      16        gave him additional time.  We raised this at the

 

      17        agenda meeting.  This is the -- they're coming

 

      18        up and repeating the San Marco conditions.  It's

 

      19        not -- that's not the process.  This is for

 

      20        unrepresented people.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, are you part of the

 

      22        San Marco Preservation?

 

      23             MS. HINCKLEY:  I am, but I'm speaking as a

 

      24        resident.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  But you've already been

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           88

 

 

       1        represented by an attorney.  This is only for

 

       2        people that are not already represented by an

 

       3        attorney.

 

       4             MS. HINCKLEY:  Okay.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, if there's anything at

 

       6        the end that you'd like to add to the comments,

 

       7        ma'am, you will get the opportunity to do that,

 

       8        but as it is right now, these are only the

 

       9        people that are not represented by an attorney.

 

      10             You asked for this special process;

 

      11        therefore, we're doing it this way.

 

      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you part of

 

      14        San Marco Preservation?

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm here representing

 

      16        myself, so -- but, yes, I am also a member of

 

      17        San Marco Preservation.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Then we need for you to step

 

      19        back, and you can add things later on if need

 

      20        be.

 

      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Alicia [sic] Abernathy.

 

      23             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

      24             MR. FRANKLIN:  Mr. Chairman, just for

 

      25        clarity, I'm representing the board of directors

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           89

 

 

       1        of the San Marco Preservation Society.

 

       2             Again, there's -- probably 95 percent of

 

       3        the people that live in San Marco that own homes

 

       4        are members of the preservation society, but

 

       5        they're not here today representing the

 

       6        preservation society.  They're speaking on

 

       7        behalf of their own issues.

 

       8             Like I said, I believe the people that we

 

       9        had, that spoke at the Planning Commission

 

      10        meeting, I'm actually speaking on behalf of many

 

      11        of those people who were there at that meeting

 

      12        representing the board, but here tonight are a

 

      13        lot of people just representing their own

 

      14        neighborhood interests who happen to be members

 

      15        of it, so --

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller, do you have the

 

      17        letter that they requested to go through this

 

      18        official process?  Do we have a copy of that

 

      19        letter?

 

      20             If I'm not mistaken, the letter says that

 

      21        you're representing San Marco Preservation

 

      22        Society, not necessarily the board.

 

      23             MR. SHAD:  Mr. Chairman.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.  Go ahead.

 

      25             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           90

 

 

       1             Through the Chairman to the committee, I

 

       2        see where we're going here.  It's going to be

 

       3        challenging.  You know, there's people here that

 

       4        have come down to speak.  Are we saying if they

 

       5        paid their dues this year and they're a member

 

       6        of the preservation society -- I don't know how

 

       7        we would quantify who is represented by an

 

       8        attorney and who's not.

 

       9             I think we should err on the side -- I know

 

      10        it's going to take a while, and I hope people

 

      11        won't be repetitive of what's been said, but I

 

      12        think we need to err on the side of allowing

 

      13        people who say they're here tonight not being

 

      14        represented by the attorneys to speak, unless

 

      15        they're board members.  And there's board

 

      16        members out there who voted to hire an attorney,

 

      17        and I -- no doubt that they are represented, but

 

      18        if someone paid their dues, I don't know if that

 

      19        would disqualify them from speaking tonight, so

 

      20        I'd just put that out there.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  What we were planning on

 

      22        doing is we were going to go through and have

 

      23        those people that are not represented by an

 

      24        attorney, which is somebody that is not a member

 

      25        of the preservation society, and then when

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           91

 

 

       1        they're done, anything that has not been put on

 

       2        the record that someone feels like they need to

 

       3        add, we can call them up, even though they're a

 

       4        member of the preservation society.  At that

 

       5        time, we could have them add what they need to

 

       6        add to the record.

 

       7             MR. SHAD:  Would they turn in another card,

 

       8        then?

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  I'll go back through.

 

      10        I've got them pulled to the side, the people

 

      11        that are a member of the preservation society.

 

      12        I will call them up and ask them if there's

 

      13        anything left they need to add that has not

 

      14        already been said.

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  Okay.  That's good.  So you'll

 

      16        get an opportunity at the end.

 

      17             Thank you.

 

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That would be me,

 

      19        Abernathy.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

 

      22             I'll just object for the record, but I

 

      23        understand.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That's Ms. Abernathy.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           92

 

 

       1             We have Clarence Frazier.

 

       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you a member of the

 

       4        San Marco Preservation Society?

 

       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I am not.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Please go ahead, sir.

 

       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Clarence

 

       8        Frazier.  I reside at 2771 Southwood Lane,

 

       9        Jacksonville, 32207.

 

      10             Southwood is one of the one-block-long

 

      11        streets that runs south from River Oaks, between

 

      12        the railroad tracks and Hendricks Avenue.

 

      13             I believe that the mixed-use nature of this

 

      14        project needs to be more conditioned that -- the

 

      15        way the language appears in the development is

 

      16        that Phase I could include up to the full extent

 

      17        of the 30 units per acre without further

 

      18        conditions of -- of the development, of the

 

      19        commercial and retail space, except for the

 

      20        18,000 square feet required in Phase I, and the

 

      21        issue is the residential density, which would be

 

      22        appropriate if this never became a transit

 

      23        development.

 

      24             The -- there's just no justification for

 

      25        permitting a high-density residential in this

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           93

 

 

       1        commercial infill.  Density alone won't solve

 

       2        the urban blight in this location anymore than

 

       3        it would anywhere else.

 

       4             The applicant wants flexibility.  We all

 

       5        want to see the area improved, but we also want

 

       6        to protect our neighborhood, just as you would

 

       7        want to maintain and protect your neighborhood,

 

       8        so I -- I and my neighbors feel that there's --

 

       9        needs to be more restrictions on density and the

 

      10        mixture of the uses to have a positive impact

 

      11        rather than a negative one.  And I do recommend

 

      12        that you adopt all the conditions, including

 

      13        that of the Planning Commission, that the --

 

      14        there be no southern access on Summerall to

 

      15        River Oaks.

 

      16             That's all.  Thank you.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      18             David Hamm, followed by Brittney Audibert.

 

      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Welcome sir.

 

      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thanks.

 

      22             David Hamm, Jerry Hamm Chevrolet, 3494

 

      23        Philips Highway.

 

      24             Pretty familiar with this location having

 

      25        worked there about 31 years and dad about

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           94

 

 

       1        53 years before we moved about six months ago

 

       2        and -- just about a half mile -- I guess it

 

       3        would be south of there, and thank you for the

 

       4        help that we had in getting that.

 

       5             And I know in any -- this was a much less

 

       6        complicated process than what this is, but just

 

       7        having gone through that, I know there's got to

 

       8        be some flexibility built in.  And also in our

 

       9        industry there's a lot of negotiations goes on

 

      10        and we get a lot of things.

 

      11             And I have to say, the developer, both

 

      12        First Star, Mr. Cissel, and Cypress, from the

 

      13        get-go have been nothing but gentlemen, have

 

      14        done everything they said they would do.  They

 

      15        were about the third developer that we worked

 

      16        with on this project and met with City Council

 

      17        way back earlier just to see what may -- what

 

      18        might be able to be done as we were trying to

 

      19        market the property.

 

      20             We wanted to develop our current property

 

      21        and stay there.  We love the neighborhood.  We

 

      22        didn't want to move to The Avenues or any other,

 

      23        you know, fancy location.  We love the

 

      24        neighborhood, wanted to stay.  But as these

 

      25        developers began to approach us, we wanted to

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           95

 

 

       1        see what could be done and have, you know, early

 

       2        on meetings with some -- a lot of you guys'

 

       3        predecessors.

 

       4             But we just want to tell you we support

 

       5        it.  The developers have done everything they

 

       6        said they would do in negotiating with us over

 

       7        about an 18-month, two-year period, and we think

 

       8        it will be an improvement for our neighborhood

 

       9        and appreciate your favorable consideration.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      11             Brittney.  Come on down, ma'am.  Followed

 

      12        by Douglas Gollnick, I think.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Brittney Audibert, 2779

 

      15        Southwood Lane.

 

      16             This is Cadence Audibert.  This is my

 

      17        visual aid.  I brought a picture last time, and

 

      18        now I'm bringing her this time.

 

      19             I just want to be pretty quick and blunt.

 

      20        I don't know all of the statistics and

 

      21        everything like that, but I know what I go

 

      22        through every day, so . . .

 

      23             My husband Craig and I -- my husband Craig

 

      24        Audibert and I moved from California, where our

 

      25        neighborhood was filled with great people, but

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           96

 

 

       1        it became too busy.  California is fast-paced,

 

       2        everything like that.  I told him my story about

 

       3        growing up in this neighborhood, slow, you know,

 

       4        my family being built there.  We have four

 

       5        generations.  She's four.  And I just want to

 

       6        let you know that we love our neighborhood, and

 

       7        I don't want -- I like how simple it is and how

 

       8        it isn't busy with traffic.

 

       9             And since I've been back, it's -- we live

 

      10        at the very end of Southwood Lane, and we have

 

      11        turnarounds twice, maybe three times more since

 

      12        I've been back, and -- I mean, I rode my bike to

 

      13        the park, FEC Park, all the time.  I walked my

 

      14        dogs when I was young.  I was able to ride my

 

      15        bike to Hendricks Avenue.  And I just don't

 

      16        think that will be possible if this -- this is

 

      17        going to -- you know, if River Oaks is going to

 

      18        stay open.

 

      19             I think that River Oaks should -- I mean, I

 

      20        keep on hearing, you know, in the past

 

      21        River Oaks Road has tried to be closed, but, you

 

      22        know, now it's a new day.  You know, it's a new

 

      23        time.  And I think that River Oaks Road should

 

      24        definitely be considered to be closed.

 

      25             And I just want to let you know that I'm

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           97

 

 

       1        coming here as a concerned parent for the safety

 

       2        of my child and for my brother and sister also,

 

       3        who are 18 and living and driving and -- that

 

       4        area they know.

 

       5             So that's pretty much it.  Thank you for

 

       6        your time.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, great visual aid.

 

       8             MS. AUDIBERT:  Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Douglas, followed by Gordon

 

      10        Mott.

 

      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Douglas

 

      13        Gollnick.  I am a member of the San Marco

 

      14        Preservation Society.  And so when you are

 

      15        interested in hearing my remarks, let me know.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.

 

      17             Gordon Mott.

 

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm also a member of

 

      19        San Marco.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.

 

      21             Brown Whatley Law.

 

      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      24             Whatley Law, 1558 Alexandria Place South,

 

      25        Jacksonville.

 

 

 

 

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       1             I'm here to speak to you on my behalf, and

 

       2        I'd like to say that, as the grandson of one of

 

       3        the developers of our neighborhood, it is unique

 

       4        and there's nothing like anything else in this

 

       5        country, and it certainly is unique to

 

       6        Jacksonville.  And you guys, I think, have a

 

       7        responsibility to protect the children and the

 

       8        elderly that live in the neighborhood,

 

       9        especially on River Oaks Road.

 

      10             That said, in evaluating whether a proposed

 

      11        PUD is externally compatible, you are required

 

      12        to evaluate whether the PUD will have any

 

      13        avoidable or undue adverse impact on existing

 

      14        uses.

 

      15             I submit that a PUD will have a very

 

      16        significant adverse impact on the traffic on

 

      17        River Oaks Road and, as a result, on property

 

      18        values, preservation of historically-qualified

 

      19        homes, and the entire surrounding residential

 

      20        neighborhood.

 

      21             The language that I've read of the

 

      22        ordinance is important to put the analysis in

 

      23        proper perspective.  In rezoning, the question

 

      24        is not whether the traffic generated by the

 

      25        requested zoning change will require roadway

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        improvements or the degree to which a specific

 

       2        change in a site plan will reduce the impact.

 

       3        The question that must be answered by ordinance

 

       4        is whether the PUD will have any avoidable or

 

       5        undue adverse impact.

 

       6             By your own concurrency plan, table 1,

 

       7        trip generation, the way I read it and the way I

 

       8        understand it, it looks like there's between

 

       9        21,698 and 8,496 trips generated each day by

 

      10        this PUD build-out.  I'm not sure where the

 

      11        numbers come from, but these look like real

 

      12        numbers to me.

 

      13             Between 6.72 and 10.21 percent of that

 

      14        traffic is projected to travel River Oaks,

 

      15        between Philips Highway and Hendricks Avenue.

 

      16             Assuming most traffic occurs between 6 a.m.

 

      17        and midnight, that would mean anywhere between

 

      18        one additional car every two minutes to two

 

      19        additional cars per minute on this neighborhood

 

      20        street.

 

      21             There again, that's math that I think is

 

      22        reality.

 

      23             This is clearly a major impact on a

 

      24        neighborhood, clearly a major impact.

 

      25             Off-site improvements contemplated by the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        applicant as part of this development will

 

       2        further exacerbate the problem.  These include

 

       3        railroad grade crossing improvements, River Oaks

 

       4        realignment, the right-of-way grants, and new

 

       5        signalization.

 

       6             The staff is clearly aware of these

 

       7        improvements contemplated as part of this

 

       8        development but failed to mention or analyze the

 

       9        impact of the adjacent residential street and

 

      10        neighborhood.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, your time is up.

 

      12             MR. LAW:  Thank you for your time.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      14             Mr. Clark, do you have a question for --

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  No.  I have a general

 

      16        statement.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      19             I just want to reiterate as we get through

 

      20        this -- and I waited till I heard from three or

 

      21        four people.  I understand how adamant everybody

 

      22        is about River Oaks Road, but the purpose and

 

      23        the methodology behind this is to stand up and

 

      24        tell us new evidence and new things that we

 

      25        haven't already heard.  We clearly understand

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        the concern on River Oaks Road, having heard it

 

       2        from everybody that stood up so far, but we need

 

       3        to hear new things and other concerns that you

 

       4        have.  We understand that one.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Clark.

 

       6             Karen Mattison, followed by Andrew Dickson.

 

       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Karen

 

       9        Mattison.  I live at 2736 Fieldston Lane.

 

      10             I'm here today to represent River Oaks

 

      11        Community Club.  That's who I'm representing.

 

      12             And I won't go into all the statistics

 

      13        about the traffic information you've heard, but

 

      14        one of the things that I must remind everyone

 

      15        here today and the public is that once the

 

      16        traffic hits this road -- and we're guessing

 

      17        now.  This is a traffic model utilized by FDOT,

 

      18        you know, estimating, which is guesstimating, to

 

      19        me, that this traffic will occur on River Oaks

 

      20        Road.

 

      21             What will happen is -- there's another

 

      22        thing called level of service for roads.  DOT

 

      23        follows it and the City follows it.  Level of

 

      24        service is how these roads are graded.  And once

 

      25        it goes from being one kind of road at a certain

 

 

 

 

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       1        level, it then becomes another.

 

       2             River Oaks Road is a neighborhood road, and

 

       3        your traffic engineering folks will tell you

 

       4        that.  And it is further compounded by the fact

 

       5        that on their on-site review of

 

       6        traffic-generated trips within the city,

 

       7        River Oaks Road is not listed in that -- in that

 

       8        chart.

 

       9             It is a neighborhood road specifically

 

      10        designed for the people who live in that area.

 

      11        There are three dead-end roads.  We have no

 

      12        other way to go.

 

      13             What will happen, Mr. Harden, is even

 

      14        though you have no plans to make that a

 

      15        four-lane road, you don't have any choice, we

 

      16        don't have any choice.  When that traffic hits

 

      17        it and it no longer is functioning at a specific

 

      18        level of service, it is mandated by law that

 

      19        that road is then four-laned, and that will

 

      20        simply destroy our neighborhood.  And I've

 

      21        seen it happen and try to happen in

 

      22        Riverside/Avondale.

 

      23             Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

      25             Mr. Dickson, followed by Jay Robinson.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Andrew Dickson.  I

 

       3        live at 1641 River Oaks Road, directly on the

 

       4        stretch that we're talking about.

 

       5             I work with the River Oaks Community Club,

 

       6        and I just want to second everything

 

       7        Ms. Mattison said, and also add the fact that I

 

       8        believe in Jacksonville city code.  It's

 

       9        expressly said that residential streets should

 

      10        not be used for cut-through traffic, you know,

 

      11        contingent upon new development.  So I'd like to

 

      12        remind you of that.

 

      13             I enthusiastically support the

 

      14        redevelopment of Philips Highway and I

 

      15        enthusiastically support transit-oriented

 

      16        development.  I just want to express to you how

 

      17        bewildering it's been as a resident to see all

 

      18        the contradictions inside the planned unit

 

      19        development application, the claim of TOD but no

 

      20        commitment from JTA, JTA's own studies that show

 

      21        that Emerson would be a more desirable location

 

      22        for a transit station.  All this leads me to

 

      23        believe that we're putting the cart before the

 

      24        horse here with the building of Jackson Square

 

      25        as a TOD.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             You know, you -- you've heard everything

 

       2        about the increase in traffic.  I don't know --

 

       3        I don't really understand the numbers.  I've

 

       4        been hearing two sets, one from Planning, one

 

       5        from Mr. Harden.  I do know that any new

 

       6        development will add traffic to our road,

 

       7        especially when it's found that our road is the

 

       8        most convenient shortcut between Philips Highway

 

       9        and Hendricks Avenue and Hendricks Elementary

 

      10        and San Marco Square.

 

      11             So I beg you, really, to respect the

 

      12        Planning Commission's recommendation to

 

      13        eliminate access to River Oaks Road from

 

      14        Summerall Avenue, I encourage you to include the

 

      15        staff report's conditions as well, and I finally

 

      16        intrigue you to include the rest of San Marco

 

      17        Preservation Society's conditions, in essence or

 

      18        in full, in the PUD application because I

 

      19        believe it's the only way to assure the

 

      20        long-term health of River Oaks Road and

 

      21        Jackson Square as a viable development.

 

      22             Thank you.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      24             Jay Robinson, followed by --

 

      25             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Jay Robinson, 1573

 

       2        Marco Place.

 

       3             I am a past member of San Marco

 

       4        Preservation Society, and I have sent in my

 

       5        check to rejoin, but they haven't cashed my

 

       6        check yet.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, sir.  Fair

 

       8        enough.  Fair enough.

 

       9             MR. ROBINSON:  Thank you.

 

      10             We'd also strongly support the

 

      11        redevelopment of the project along Philips

 

      12        Highway.  However, we believe it should be done

 

      13        in -- consistent with the 2010 Comprehensive

 

      14        Plan, which we believe calls for a gradual

 

      15        transition of use and intensity.  And from --

 

      16        and it should not have any avoidable or undue

 

      17        adverse impact on the surrounding usage.

 

      18             If you will -- and I'm sure you've seen

 

      19        this already, but if -- on page 16 of your staff

 

      20        report it shows a picture of the property and it

 

      21        shows the right-of-way next to the railroad, and

 

      22        I'm sure you're aware that the houses next to

 

      23        that right-of-way are single-family homes and

 

      24        they run about 125 feet deep to Mitchell Road.

 

      25             Now, these lots are currently single-family

 

 

 

 

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       1        homes and they're zoned CO, not CCG-1 or -2 as

 

       2        described in the application for the total

 

       3        project.

 

       4             Now, these lots serve as a zoning

 

       5        transitional [sic], you know, to -- before you

 

       6        get to the intense use of the property, which is

 

       7        appropriate.  As such, the height limit for CO

 

       8        property is 35 feet.

 

       9             Now, I think can you increase that to 45

 

      10        with an administration [sic] deviation, but

 

      11        they're asking for 75 feet, or they at least

 

      12        have put 75 feet in their application, and just

 

      13        5 feet from the property.

 

      14             Now, our thought is that we should at least

 

      15        have specifically specified in the application

 

      16        that the maximum height should be 45 feet.  I

 

      17        mean, it needs to be spelled out that you can't

 

      18        go to 75 feet.

 

      19             Now, you can also -- I don't know if you've

 

      20        heard this before, but if you've been along that

 

      21        area when the train goes by, the noise is pretty

 

      22        incredible.  Now, we live pretty close to

 

      23        there.  And if you have buildings that are

 

      24        relatively tall and they're right next to

 

      25        railroad tracks, the noise reverberation is

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        going to be unbelievable, and it just can't

 

       2        happen.  If there's going to be anything built

 

       3        over there, it has to be a transition away from

 

       4        the edge of the property and it has to be low

 

       5        rise.

 

       6             And so, from that standpoint, we recommend

 

       7        that you just not approve this application.

 

       8             Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      10             And thank you for talking about something

 

      11        other than the traffic on River Oaks Road.

 

      12             Missie Sarra.

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm a member of the

 

      14        San Marco Preservation Society.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

      16             Christine Sasser.

 

      17             MS. SASSER:  I'm a member.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Carol Garner.

 

      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm a member, but they

 

      21        haven't cashed my check yet either.

 

      22             I'm actually speaking -- I'm Carol Garner

 

      23        from 1713 River Oaks Road, and I'm a nurse

 

      24        practitioner for the Department of Health and

 

      25        for the JSO, so it's my job to speak about

 

 

 

 

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       1        crime, so I won't talk about River Oaks Road.

 

       2             From the beginning, the descriptions and

 

       3        the drawings and the presentations to the public

 

       4        from this developer have been inconsistent.  The

 

       5        Zone 3 police were under the understanding that

 

       6        the Jackson Square project was going to be a

 

       7        high-end condominium complex.  They raised

 

       8        questions about this because they said Zone 3

 

       9        already has 40 percent apartments and, according

 

      10        to their statistics, 3.8 times as many crimes

 

      11        occur in apartment complexes as other residences

 

      12        in Jacksonville, yet I had no clue as to how

 

      13        they might have been misinformed that way.

 

      14             I also spoke to the president and the

 

      15        historian from the Pine Forest neighborhood

 

      16        action group, and they relayed that their

 

      17        understanding was that this also was going to be

 

      18        a high-end condominium complex that they were

 

      19        supportive of, but then they also had a concern

 

      20        for some brethren of theirs and -- concerning

 

      21        a -- especially Pastor Brian Campbell of the

 

      22        Jerusalem Mission Baptist Church, who stated

 

      23        there was potential danger on St. Augustine Road

 

      24        regarding his parishioners and children crossing

 

      25        the street because their parking lot is across

 

 

 

 

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       1        the street on St. Augustine Road, and that they

 

       2        also ask that the only in and out -- I mean,

 

       3        entrance and exit from this complex be on

 

       4        Philips Highway and not down Summerall and --

 

       5        which will then lead into St. Augustine Road.

 

       6             I also brought a handout from a cartoon I

 

       7        saw Saturday, which is a little -- if you would

 

       8        hand -- I made enough copies for everyone.

 

       9             Because it was a little disheartening, I

 

      10        was extremely in despair -- the first time I

 

      11        came here, it was my first time in front of the

 

      12        City Council, then I had a glimmer of hope, and

 

      13        now thank you for considering closing off River

 

      14        Oaks Road because of Art Shad, but I was afraid

 

      15        that this is maybe what we were up against, and

 

      16        I'll let the cartoon speak to [sic] itself.

 

      17             Thank you very much for listening to my

 

      18        presentation.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

      20             MS. GARNER:  Thank you.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Philip Elson.

 

      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you very much,

 

      24        Chairman Graham.

 

      25             Councilman Shad, thank you very much as

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           110

 

 

       1        well for supporting the initiative as it relates

 

       2        to the traffic on River Oaks Road.

 

       3             I'm not going to talk about the traffic,

 

       4        but that's why -- that's one of the reasons I'm

 

       5        here.

 

       6             I live on 1608 River Oaks Road.  My wife

 

       7        and three children, we've lived there for

 

       8        15 years.  This is our very first house, and

 

       9        there's -- and I'm 100 percent for the

 

      10        redevelopment of this site.

 

      11             I mean, this is what I do for a living.  I

 

      12        work in brownfields redevelopment.  I worked on

 

      13        LaVilla 15 years ago.  I am the Chair of the

 

      14        Enterprise Empowerment Zone for the City of

 

      15        Jacksonville.  I work with NAIOP.  I've worked

 

      16        with Lad Daniels trying to make brownfields

 

      17        redevelopment and projects of this nature work,

 

      18        so it's very ironic that I'm even here today

 

      19        kind of speaking on behalf of this project.

 

      20             We handed out a little brochure, and I'm

 

      21        just going to -- instead of talking, I'm just

 

      22        going to take you through this.  I'd like you to

 

      23        take a look at this because Alison spent a whole

 

      24        lot of time putting this together, and she

 

      25        wasn't able to speak, and I am speaking on

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        behalf of the River Oaks Community Club.

 

       2             If you look at the very first page, you can

 

       3        get a -- kind of a bird's-eye view of the

 

       4        development on page 2, and this little area up

 

       5        to the left-hand corner is our community.

 

       6        That's River Oaks -- the River Oaks community.

 

       7        We've been here for over 70 years.  There's

 

       8        75 homes in this area, about an average of

 

       9        1,600 square foot in size.

 

      10             And you can look at some of the

 

      11        predevelopment, post Jacksonville Square [sic]

 

      12        development pictures here on River Oaks Road, on

 

      13        Southwood Lane, on Thornwood Lane, on Fieldston,

 

      14        beautiful little bungalows.  It's a

 

      15        working-class neighborhood in San Marco.

 

      16             So you can -- you know, once we heard about

 

      17        this -- and I went and met with Mr. Cissel back

 

      18        in July and started asking of -- what types of

 

      19        impacts is this going to have on our

 

      20        neighborhood.  I was basically told none;

 

      21        there's not going to be any impacts to your

 

      22        road; I have no plans to do any type of

 

      23        improvements to it; and, if so, the City of

 

      24        Jacksonville is going to take care of it.

 

      25             Another -- if you look at page 9, the big

 

 

 

 

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       1        aerial view, this is -- this development is

 

       2        being done in the context of something that's

 

       3        much bigger that's getting ready to go on in

 

       4        this area.  And, again, it's something that's

 

       5        very important, but what concerned me was this

 

       6        little -- and I asked Steve about this many

 

       7        times -- the red line where River Oaks Road --

 

       8        you can see the blue arrow to it, where it hooks

 

       9        up, River Oaks, Hendricks Avenue, over the

 

      10        railroad tracks to Philips Highway, and then

 

      11        continues on over into Santiago Road.

 

      12             And I've asked him, well, you don't have

 

      13        plans?  Why is it on your map?  This looks like

 

      14        you're going to turn my little neighborhood,

 

      15        this little connector road that I live on,

 

      16        into -- a neighborhood road into a connector.

 

      17             So I've asked that many times, and I

 

      18        haven't -- I was told that that was the drainage

 

      19        line by Mr. Cissel.  This is the divide between

 

      20        FEC Park and River Oaks Road.

 

      21             Mr. Harden -- the next page, on 10, this is

 

      22        going to scare the bejeebers out of us and tell

 

      23        us that this is the -- this is what could be

 

      24        here with the current zoning.

 

      25             Build it, build an office park, see if

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        that's something that's going to work in this

 

       2        area.  We're literally all for that.

 

       3             And it really is the residential.  Nine

 

       4        hundred units --

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir.

 

       6             MR. ELSON:  -- of residential in this

 

       7        neighborhood is really what is scaring

 

       8        everybody.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Your time is up.

 

      10             MR. ELSON:  All right.  Well, I really hope

 

      11        that you spend a little bit of time with this.

 

      12             Look in the back of this document --

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir.

 

      14             MR. ELSON:  -- look at the pictures, and I

 

      15        think you'll get a good feel for what we're

 

      16        concerned about and what we're worried about

 

      17        losing.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      19             Guy Beard.

 

      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  San Marco.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      22             Wendy LaPrade.

 

      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  San Marco Preservation.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

      25             Tim Franklin, I can't believe you filled

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        out a card.

 

       2             Shane Sheffield.

 

       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.

 

       5             My name is Shane Sheffield.  I'm -- I live

 

       6        at 1534 Marco Place.

 

       7             You know, I have a -- kids in school, River

 

       8        Oaks -- I mean, at Hendricks Avenue Elementary

 

       9        School.  I went to the ACE meeting, which is the

 

      10        school study on overcrowding or undercrowding of

 

      11        schools and trying to figure out the financial

 

      12        viability of how we fund our schools.

 

      13             This does not -- has not taken into account

 

      14        the concurrency.  I'm not an expert on this, but

 

      15        all I know is that -- that no impact of the

 

      16        schools is being taken into account with this

 

      17        application.

 

      18             And now I'm going to speak as a taxpayer.

 

      19        I just want to be clear, this is not a

 

      20        transportation-oriented development, so it's a

 

      21        joke to keep referring to it as that.  It is

 

      22        not.  There is no one here from JTA to say that

 

      23        they support it or they're in favor of it.  And

 

      24        our history in our community of mass transit is

 

      25        a -- is really kind of funny.

 

 

 

 

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       1             I was doing a little bit of research last

 

       2        night.  And, you know, the Skyway was built with

 

       3        $200 million.  I thought it was like

 

       4        $20 million.  But $200 million.  At -- at

 

       5        current ridership of 1,700 people a week and

 

       6        funding it for -- at $3-and-a-half million a

 

       7        year, it generates $500,000 a year in revenue.

 

       8        I think I figured out by the year of 2385 it

 

       9        might actually pay for itself.

 

      10             You know, I am not in favor of

 

      11        transportation-oriented developments because I

 

      12        think it's -- this is Jacksonville, Florida.

 

      13        People are not -- people own cars.  They're not

 

      14        going to ride mass transit.  I mean, the Skyway

 

      15        is the ultimate bridge to nowhere.

 

      16             And, you know, let's just be clear, this is

 

      17        not a transportation-oriented development, so I

 

      18        don't know why we're throwing hard code that's

 

      19        been planned.  We're just throwing the planning

 

      20        away, and -- and I just -- as a taxpayer and a

 

      21        person who loves this city, I would hate to see

 

      22        us just trash our code and our planning for

 

      23        something that is not what it's being called.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             George Foote.

 

       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  San Marco Preservation.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       4             George Jaghab.

 

       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry, sir, if I butchered

 

       7        your name.

 

       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's all right.

 

       9             My name is George Jaghab.  I live at 10859

 

      10        Scott Mill Road, and I'm a business owner on

 

      11        2953 Philips Highway.

 

      12             I am very, very symp- -- well, first, let

 

      13        me just -- I mean, honestly say I'm very

 

      14        supportive of this project, but I am also very

 

      15        concerned and sympathetic for the concerns of

 

      16        the members and residents -- members of the

 

      17        San Marco Preservation Society and residents of

 

      18        the San Marco area.

 

      19             I will tell you from a business owner's

 

      20        perspective, the crime that goes on during the

 

      21        day just really is very taxing on many of the

 

      22        business owners.  I could -- I have even sensed

 

      23        more crime to the area ever since my good

 

      24        neighbor David Hamm, Jerry Hamm Chevrolet moved

 

      25        up the road because there's no activity in the

 

 

 

 

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       1        area.  All you're left with is abandoned

 

       2        buildings and businesses and abandoned

 

       3        storefronts.  Drug use is open, prostitution is

 

       4        open, so any vibrant improvement to the area is

 

       5        very much welcomed.

 

       6             I can tell you other business owners in the

 

       7        area are enthusiastic about it.  I hope, with

 

       8        your collective wisdom, you can make business

 

       9        owners happy and meet the concerns of residents

 

      10        of San Marco.

 

      11             Thank you.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      13             Bill Argus.

 

      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I have a visual that I

 

      16        want to put, I think, on the --

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  We can do that for

 

      18        you.

 

      19             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Bill Argus.  I

 

      20        live at 2750 Thornwood Lane.

 

      21             I'm just off of River Oaks, and I'm

 

      22        concerned about the density that the PUD has at

 

      23        this time.

 

      24             I wanted to share with you, just for the

 

      25        record, that there are some residential homes

 

 

 

 

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       1        that abut the property, and that's what I'm --

 

       2        I'm trying to show here.

 

       3             The -- visual aid number 1, it's a -- it's

 

       4        at 1830 John Street, and it backs up to the

 

       5        developer's property.  There's two shots of

 

       6        that.

 

       7             The next sheet.  These are just, you know,

 

       8        regular, middle-class homes.

 

       9             Number 2 is a house along the boundary

 

      10        line, and you can see on the first sheet where

 

      11        they're numbered, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

 

      12             Number 3 is another nice, middle-class

 

      13        home, and it has a side yard along the

 

      14        boundary.  Number 4, it has a side yard along

 

      15        the boundary.  And 5 is just nearby number 4.

 

      16             And the point I'm trying to make is, right

 

      17        now, with the -- with the setbacks that are in

 

      18        place, I think you're going to destroy some of

 

      19        the character that I love about San Marco.

 

      20             San Marco houses are relatively spaced

 

      21        apart, uncharacteristically of the new

 

      22        developments around the country, and there's a

 

      23        lot of landscape.  It's a friendly

 

      24        neighborhood.  It's a neighborhood that I have

 

      25        no problem supporting development, albeit it's

 

 

 

 

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       1        across the railroad tracks.  I understand that

 

       2        psychological difference, but I'd love to be

 

       3        able to -- to bridge the gap there, but I think

 

       4        something that is a little bit more generous in

 

       5        the landscape and conducive to the park area and

 

       6        the historical flavor of San Marco would

 

       7        probably be a lot more successful and beneficial

 

       8        to San Marco.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      10             All right.  That's the last card that I

 

      11        have.  I'm going to go back through the people

 

      12        that were represented.

 

      13             Now, you guys -- put in mind that you guys

 

      14        asked for this to be a quasi-judicial hearing

 

      15        and to be represented by an attorney or

 

      16        everybody would have just been given three

 

      17        minutes to speak as normal.

 

      18             Now, I didn't cut anybody off prior to

 

      19        three minutes.  I let everybody speak.  I didn't

 

      20        cut anybody off at one minute, but I let

 

      21        everybody speak through the end.

 

      22             If there's anything that you want to add

 

      23        that you haven't heard that was said thus far,

 

      24        come forward.  If you felt like everything has

 

      25        already been said, then we'll continue from

 

 

 

 

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       1        there.

 

       2             Rob Smith.

 

       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm okay.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       5             Carolyn Hinckley.

 

       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm all right.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       8             Alicia [sic] Abernathy, followed by Douglas

 

       9        Gollnick.

 

      10             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Alison Abernathy, and I

 

      12        live at 2744 Southwood Lane.

 

      13             And I don't want to take a lot of your

 

      14        time, but I would like to point -- on page

 

      15        number 25 in the handout that we gave you that

 

      16        says "the other side of the Jackson Square

 

      17        development," we've got a couple of, I think,

 

      18        very important quotes that came out of the

 

      19        Planning Commission meeting about ten days ago.

 

      20             Eddie Johnson, the chairman of the Planning

 

      21        Commission, said quote, No access on River Oaks

 

      22        or Summerall.  That way we know we're all

 

      23        covered and we understand what our intent is,

 

      24        and if anybody goes back into the record of what

 

      25        we're trying to do here, they understand the

 

 

 

 

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       1        intent is we don't want any cars leaving this

 

       2        site to the south at all, period, end of story.

 

       3             That quote is followed by one from

 

       4        Mr. Harden, where he said, quote, We're going to

 

       5        accept whatever solution you-all propose.

 

       6             He said that to the Planning Commission,

 

       7        and we hope that he abides by it.

 

       8             Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

      10             Douglas.

 

      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Douglas

 

      13        Gollnick.  I live at 1728 Brookwood Road.

 

      14             I'm here to represent the residents of

 

      15        Brookwood, Lorimier, and Dunsford Roads, which

 

      16        comprise approximately 150 families.

 

      17             We'd like to register a concern about

 

      18        increased traffic on our residential roads.

 

      19        Today Lorimier, Brookwood, and Dunsford Roads

 

      20        are used as -- pardon me -- are used as

 

      21        cut-throughs for people who want to drive

 

      22        between Philips Highway and Hendricks and

 

      23        San Jose Boulevard.

 

      24             Adding 900 new families and their cars to

 

      25        the area would create a considerable danger to

 

 

 

 

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       1        traffic -- or to pets, children, and pedestrians

 

       2        in our neighborhood streets.

 

       3             Unlike River Oaks, we do not have sidewalks

 

       4        to separate us from the cars that drive

 

       5        sometimes at excessive speeds through our

 

       6        neighborhood.

 

       7             We request that traffic studies be

 

       8        conducted in the area, also extend to Lorimier,

 

       9        Brookwood, and Dunsford Roads.

 

      10             We understand that we will experience some

 

      11        increase in traffic; however, limiting the

 

      12        residential component of this development to a

 

      13        significantly smaller number of units would help

 

      14        us to maintain a safe and healthy environment

 

      15        for our families, and the potential closure of

 

      16        River Oaks Road would only amplify the amount of

 

      17        traffic that's going to be cutting through our

 

      18        neighborhood streets.

 

      19             We love our homes, and we would think of

 

      20        living nowhere else in Jacksonville.  We embrace

 

      21        improvement along this stretch of Philips

 

      22        Highway that has gone too long without

 

      23        attention.  We want to be sure that -- the right

 

      24        type of improvement that benefits us all, both

 

      25        in the new and existing residences.

 

 

 

 

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       1             There's no reason to damage -- there's no

 

       2        reason to cause damage to a well-established

 

       3        community for the sake of installing a new one.

 

       4        Surely a solution that is beneficial can be

 

       5        achieved for all of us.

 

       6             Thank you.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       8             Gordon Mott.

 

       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Gordon Mott, 1567

 

      11        Alexandria Place North, 32207.

 

      12             Very briefly, and I'll make this very brief

 

      13        because no one's mentioned the issue of parking

 

      14        and variance from -- from code that's being

 

      15        requested.

 

      16             The project is requesting that the -- that

 

      17        they be granted a reduction of -- to one-half of

 

      18        the requirements under residential and one-half

 

      19        of the requirements under commercial, and I

 

      20        would point out specifically that the

 

      21        Development Services Division of the Planning

 

      22        Department has specifically recommended that

 

      23        this not be granted.  I believe that's included

 

      24        in the material that you have before you, so I

 

      25        would only ask that the City codes be respected

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        with respect to parking in this project.

 

       2             Thank you.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       4             Missie Sarra.

 

       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm on the board, so I'm

 

       6        represented.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, ma'am.

 

       8             Christine Sasser.

 

       9             (Ms. Sasser approaches the podium.)

 

      10             MS. SASSER:  Good evening.

 

      11             My name is Christine Sasser.  I live at 951

 

      12        Saratoga Drive.

 

      13             And this is a public hearing, and I am here

 

      14        as part of the public.  My husband Doug and I

 

      15        are going to be represented by these comments.

 

      16        We do not support -- first of all, we support

 

      17        revitalization on Philips Highway, but we want

 

      18        it to be done according to code.

 

      19             And I just wanted to remind everyone -- a

 

      20        lot of what's been said I support, but just

 

      21        remember Part 14 of the zoning code was amended

 

      22        by the City Council in 2007, and that created a

 

      23        TOD zoning category.

 

      24             Now, the PUD -- as, you know, everyone has

 

      25        said, this is not a TOD.  However, the Planning

 

 

 

 

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       1        Department staff report says, and I quote, The

 

       2        Jackson Square project is a model

 

       3        transit-oriented development.

 

       4             And, you know, Mr. Harden says that the

 

       5        Planning Department has clearly vetted this

 

       6        issue.  Well, if that's so, the PUD -- I mean,

 

       7        how can they explain, then, that the PUD has

 

       8        granted reductions in parking, increased

 

       9        density, and reductions in landscaping, which

 

      10        are clearly given to TODs.  And I just want to

 

      11        remind you of that and to please follow the

 

      12        zoning code.

 

      13             This is not a TOD.  The JTA memo in your

 

      14        paperwork clearly states that their only

 

      15        commitment is for a bus stop and a bus pull-off

 

      16        lane.  JTA has no plans as of right now to put a

 

      17        transit-oriented -- a transit station -- rapid

 

      18        transit station at this location, so please be

 

      19        mindful of that.

 

      20             And if using this TOD concept -- it's not a

 

      21        justification for waivers or for uses or

 

      22        intensities which violate the US-1 Corridor

 

      23        Study, the requirements of the comp plan, and

 

      24        recommendations from the Development Services

 

      25        Division.  So please follow your own zoning code

 

 

 

 

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       1        and please consider these recommendations from

 

       2        San Marco.

 

       3             Thank you.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

       5             Guy Beard.

 

       6             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.

 

       8             My name is Guy Beard.  I live at 2763

 

       9        Southwood Lane.

 

      10             You know, this whole project is basically

 

      11        been on a "this is going to work" basis.  You

 

      12        know, we're going to go in there and we're going

 

      13        to fill these things out.  We're going to fill

 

      14        this commercial space up.  I haven't heard what

 

      15        if, what if they don't fill it up, what if the

 

      16        commercial property isn't filled up, how long

 

      17        will it be vacant?

 

      18             There's a lot of commercial property on

 

      19        Philips Highway.  There's a lot of residential

 

      20        places you can go rent around here.  That's the

 

      21        big question.  What if this doesn't happen?  We

 

      22        give them the zoning that they need and they

 

      23        decide not to build and to sell, who's the

 

      24        second owner of this property going to be?

 

      25        That's the contention that I look at, is, what

 

 

 

 

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       1        if this really doesn't work?

 

       2             You know, the big saying is, build it and

 

       3        they will come.  Well, in today's world, that's

 

       4        not necessarily true.  So that's -- that's my

 

       5        different view.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.  I

 

       7        appreciate it.

 

       8             Wendy LaPrade.

 

       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let the record show she said

 

      11        she's fine.

 

      12             George Foote.

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let the record indicate he's

 

      15        okay.

 

      16             And Barbara Pickett, Puckett.

 

      17             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry, ma'am.  I can't see

 

      19        if that's an "I" or a "U."

 

      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      21             My name is Barbara Puckett.  I live at

 

      22        947 Sorrento Road.

 

      23             And I am the director emeritus of San Marco

 

      24        Preservation.  Do I qualify?

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're fine.  Go ahead.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MS. PUCKETT:  I would like to invite each

 

       2        of you to our neighborhood.  I have a feeling

 

       3        that you're not familiar with the area in which

 

       4        you've been asked to make a decision.  It's a

 

       5        neighborhood that was built before World War II

 

       6        broke out.  My family has lived in the

 

       7        neighborhood since 1938, and I have lived there

 

       8        most of the time myself.

 

       9             The neighborhood was designed with narrow

 

      10        streets, lots 60 feet by 125, lovely brick

 

      11        homes, frame homes, some of them are 1,200

 

      12        square feet up to 2,5-, 3,000 square feet.

 

      13        They're all maintained.  And everyone admires

 

      14        San Marco for what we have been able to do, with

 

      15        the help of the City, I might add.

 

      16             We have -- people keep their neighborhoods

 

      17        up, their homes, they keep the trash off the

 

      18        street.  If they see something that's going

 

      19        wrong, amidst with a neighbor, they help.  We

 

      20        have just helped with a neighbor who died and

 

      21        put on an event after the funeral, and those are

 

      22        neighbors just getting together to aid one

 

      23        another.

 

      24             I really don't think you understand what

 

      25        San Marco is.  San Marco is a small

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           129

 

 

       1        neighborhood.  The City bus actually turned at

 

       2        River Oaks Road in 1936.  That's the city limit

 

       3        of the city of Jacksonville.

 

       4             So please come visit our neighborhood

 

       5        before you let too much activity and traffic

 

       6        destroy the small streets and small homes.

 

       7             Thank you.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you going to speak

 

      11        on this project?

 

      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Nods head.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  You might as well come on

 

      14        up.

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  How you doing?

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Name and address for the

 

      17        record, please.

 

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, sir.

 

      19             My name is Hanif Shakir.  My address is

 

      20        7426 Gainesville Avenue.

 

      21             I represent the people, but good evening,

 

      22        everybody.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      24             MR. SHAKIR:  Yeah, I didn't know I was

 

      25        coming down here.  I just -- but anyway, the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        biggest problem I have is just getting the

 

       2        people together right now.  You know, when the

 

       3        world is -- the world order is confused, so I'm

 

       4        just in that confusion, but I'm not confused.

 

       5             So our resident [sic].  I pray for us.

 

       6        Safety.  But just -- just with (inaudible) for

 

       7        me.

 

       8             I do everything right.  I support the

 

       9        people, but when I tell y'all, I like to go to

 

      10        Jaguar games, I like to go -- support the

 

      11        children, I like to have money to spend with

 

      12        them sometimes.  I like a lot of money because I

 

      13        do a lot of things, so it's my -- and I'm going

 

      14        to make this short.  I don't want to speak

 

      15        too -- I'm tired of speaking.  I want you to see

 

      16        my action, how I live.

 

      17             But when I go out there with a little

 

      18        money, try to get a ticket -- you know, when the

 

      19        sheriff called me -- what?  Yeah, I'll walk with

 

      20        you.  Let's go clean the street up.  State

 

      21        attorney, Angela, Jay Plotkin, Mr. Shorstein, I

 

      22        know people.  I know y'all.  But when I need

 

      23        help for a -- $10 or something for a ticket and

 

      24        I can't get it, I'm the god, I'm the Jesus of

 

      25        the world.  I can love every race, but I'm going

 

 

 

 

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       1        to make it because I'm very sincere about my

 

       2        education, my self-esteem.  I'm going to be

 

       3        healthy, and I know God, and I know what he told

 

       4        me, to keep being vigorous, energetic.

 

       5             So I say this:  I'm struggling, but who

 

       6        ain't struggling?  So I be wanting to go to the

 

       7        game, but then you ain't -- you know my address,

 

       8        I just told you, but you don't come check on

 

       9        me.  But I check on you, your children.  I pray

 

      10        for all y'all, all these communities in

 

      11        Jacksonville.

 

      12             I'm from Duval, but why you let a man of

 

      13        God die?  But I ain't going to die because I'm

 

      14        vigorous.  I'm -- I got so many words, but this

 

      15        is the key:  I want to live and not suffer like

 

      16        the prophets of old.  I'm going to live.  I'm

 

      17        going to still do what I have to do.  I'm just

 

      18        pissed off, but I'm all right.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.  And thank

 

      20        you for not talking about the traffic on

 

      21        River Oaks Road.

 

      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am.

 

      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.  Hi.

 

      25             My name is Elizabeth Duff.  I reside at

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        2736 Southwood Lane, which is one of the

 

       2        dead-end streets which runs into River Oaks

 

       3        Road.

 

       4             I'm not going to say a lot about traffic,

 

       5        but I just wanted -- this -- these are just two

 

       6        things that nobody mentioned that will affect

 

       7        implications of traffic.

 

       8             We already deal with a lot of congestion at

 

       9        certain times of the day because of the light on

 

      10        River Oaks and Hendricks.  It's like the

 

      11        shortest light of the southeast of the United

 

      12        States.  I mean, you really have, like, maybe

 

      13        three seconds to get through a green light

 

      14        there.  Sometimes the cars can be backed up

 

      15        several blocks there in the afternoon.

 

      16             The other thing is the train.  I have sat

 

      17        at the train, waiting for a train to go by, and

 

      18        then having another train show up to come by

 

      19        after the other one just finished, sometimes for

 

      20        20 minutes, and that causes a lot of traffic to

 

      21        back up too.

 

      22             So I just -- when you're thinking about the

 

      23        traffic, just think about the congestion that we

 

      24        already deal with and how it's going to be

 

      25        larger if we should deal with a lot more

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        traffic.

 

       2             Thank you.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

       4             Now, I don't have any more cards.  Is there

 

       5        anybody else that would like to speak or felt

 

       6        like there's something they need to add to the

 

       7        record?

 

       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, come on up.

 

      10             Did you fill out a card?

 

      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I had one before.  Does

 

      12        that count?

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did you -- you already

 

      14        spoke?

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Carol Garner, but I

 

      16        just wanted to present to the City Council a

 

      17        letter from my neighbor, who couldn't be here,

 

      18        so that's --

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That's fine, ma'am.

 

      20        We'll add that to the record.

 

      21             MS. GARNER:  Thank you.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      23             Is there anybody else?

 

      24             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, I'm going to

 

 

 

 

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       1        close the public hearing.

 

       2             Diane, I know your fingers are probably

 

       3        getting a little sore right now.  Can you hold

 

       4        on?  We have about ten minutes -- I'm sorry,

 

       5        twenty minutes of rebuttal.  Hopefully, they're

 

       6        not going to use that much time, but -- if you

 

       7        can hold on through that so we can just go ahead

 

       8        and be done with the public hearing.

 

       9             THE REPORTER:  Okay.  That's fine.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  First is Mr. Franklin,

 

      11        followed by Mr. Harden.

 

      12             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

      13             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

 

      14             I, based on these comments, don't have a

 

      15        whole lot to rebut, if you will.

 

      16             I think that what I would say about the

 

      17        comments is it really shows, number one, a

 

      18        diversity that we have in the neighborhood

 

      19        there.  It really shows the brain power that we

 

      20        have in San Marco, some of the probably best

 

      21        professional and service and -- and all

 

      22        different fields live in this neighborhood.

 

      23             The San Marco Preservation Society and its

 

      24        members are not one of your -- well, I'll just

 

      25        say they're probably the best -- one of the

 

 

 

 

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       1        best, if not the best neighborhood action groups

 

       2        out there.  They're very involved, they've

 

       3        always been in the forefront of making sure

 

       4        their neighborhood has zoning controls and

 

       5        protections, those sort of the things.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you're not

 

       7        rebutting right now.  You'll get five minutes to

 

       8        conclude, if you'd like.

 

       9             Do you have any rebuttal?

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  I was just trying to use

 

      11        some of -- you caught me.  I'll wait for

 

      12        rebuttal -- I'll wait for closing.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      14             Mr. Harden.

 

      15             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  Thank you.

 

      17             I want to first comment on the complaint of

 

      18        lack of information.  In all due respect, I

 

      19        don't criticize anyone for their positions.

 

      20             This PUD is like a hundred other planned

 

      21        unit developments that you've been through.  I

 

      22        don't think there's a fair understanding of how

 

      23        detailed the Planning Department requires the

 

      24        information that you provide before you get in

 

      25        the door.  And we did that, and that information

 

 

 

 

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       1        was provided, and then, on top of that, we have

 

       2        the set of conditions, on top of that the

 

       3        conditions required by the San Marco

 

       4        Preservation -- not to mention the

 

       5        interrogatories they sent if they wanted

 

       6        information that we want to give them.

 

       7             So I think, in fairness, the process has,

 

       8        in fact, yielded very substantial information.

 

       9             I'm going to go quickly through some of the

 

      10        comments.

 

      11             The internal inconsistencies, I just beg to

 

      12        differ.  The Planning Department has reviewed

 

      13        the specific issue.  The one that was raised was

 

      14        single-family versus multifamily.  Single-family

 

      15        is a listed use in the CCG zoning category.

 

      16        It's listed as a use in the PUD.  There is no

 

      17        location on here there's [sic] going to be a

 

      18        single-family development.

 

      19             Potentially, you would put a row of houses

 

      20        along St. Johns Avenue -- along John Street or

 

      21        potentially along Mitchell, and those would be

 

      22        single-family and that use.  And that's the only

 

      23        reason it's in there.  But every single

 

      24        commercial general PUD that's a mixed use

 

      25        includes that language in there, so it's not

 

 

 

 

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       1        something that's intended to concern somebody.

 

       2             The density that Mr. Frazier raised --

 

       3        sixty units per acre is allowable under the CGC

 

       4        zoning category.  The Planning Department is

 

       5        limiting us until there's some activity for the

 

       6        mass transit activity.  There's no requirement

 

       7        that we do a TOD here, but they required us to

 

       8        do mass transit activity.

 

       9             Don't call it a TOD if you don't want to.

 

      10        Call it what it is.  It's a facility to start

 

      11        mass transit activity on Philips Highway, and

 

      12        there's very detailed requirements for that.

 

      13             Sixty units an acre is what we're allowed

 

      14        under the zoning code.  They've limited us to 30

 

      15        until we get up with the transportation

 

      16        activity, and that was a fair request and we

 

      17        agreed to it, but don't think that that's not an

 

      18        allowable use.

 

      19             A lady mentioned level of service capacity

 

      20        on River Oaks Road.  As I told you, that's

 

      21        7 percent currently.

 

      22             A gentleman said he has a problem because

 

      23        of the lack of gradual transition.  Right now

 

      24        it's commercial general right up to the houses

 

      25        on both sides of the property and there's one

 

 

 

 

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       1        line along the railroad track.  We're changing

 

       2        that.  We're actually going to make it into a

 

       3        gradual transition by making it residential.  So

 

       4        remember, now it's commercial activity up there

 

       5        and we're the one actually putting that into

 

       6        effect.

 

       7             I'm not sure -- the lady that talked about

 

       8        crime in the neighborhood, I wish she had a fair

 

       9        understanding of what's happening now on Philips

 

      10        Highway.  Our goal is to help clean that up.

 

      11        Our goal is to bring in -- and they are high-end

 

      12        units, but that's not the issue.  I don't want

 

      13        to suggest that people who live in less

 

      14        expensive houses commit more crime, but we're

 

      15        agreeing to all the Jacksonville Journey

 

      16        activity on that, and so our goal is to not

 

      17        precipitate that.

 

      18             Someone mentioned -- a gentleman mentioned

 

      19        the St. Johns [sic] houses and no buffer.  One

 

      20        of the conditions that we agreed to last Friday

 

      21        was putting in a buffer along that location to

 

      22        offset the single-family homes at that location,

 

      23        so we're -- we're agreeable to that.

 

      24             Likewise, the parking reduction.  They

 

      25        asked for an increase in parking.  The Planning

 

 

 

 

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       1        Department had given us something less.  We

 

       2        raised that in -- consistent with that

 

       3        discussion.

 

       4             So almost all of these issues were raised

 

       5        and we responded in the conditions that the --

 

       6        Councilman Shad reduced to writing.

 

       7             The Dunsford, Brookwood, Lorimier activity,

 

       8        those are streets that are parallel, heading

 

       9        south from River Oaks Road.  If you shut off

 

      10        River Oaks Road, that's where the traffic is

 

      11        going to go.  So I'm not sure what the

 

      12        gentleman's comment was other than maybe -- you

 

      13        know, maybe he's on our position that -- that we

 

      14        want to increase the connectivity, so -- just so

 

      15        you know where those are, those aren't being

 

      16        proposed to shut off.  They're off St. Augustine

 

      17        Road.

 

      18             The last thing I want to talk about is the

 

      19        what if, what if -- what if it doesn't happen.

 

      20        I want you to know that Cypress is really

 

      21        putting their money where their mouth is on this

 

      22        project.

 

      23             We're not here to try to poke anybody in

 

      24        the eye from San Marco.  We want to be part of

 

      25        that community.  The design that we've shown you

 

 

 

 

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       1        is an attempt to be a mixed-use activity on what

 

       2        is clearly a blighted site adjoining the

 

       3        San Marco area.

 

       4             We're not here to try to disturb their way

 

       5        of life.  We want to clean up their way of

 

       6        life.  We want to be a good neighbor.  We tried

 

       7        to anticipate the issues on landscaping and that

 

       8        sort of thing, and even when -- there was a

 

       9        request Friday that we change the landscaping.

 

      10        We agreed to do that.

 

      11             We have an almost $300,000 tree mitigation

 

      12        requirement on top of our landscape

 

      13        requirement.  What they said was, we want at

 

      14        least half of that on the site.  Well, quite

 

      15        frankly, I think Councilman Jones would

 

      16        prefer -- because it's going to be crowded on

 

      17        there to do it, that we spend it on Philips

 

      18        Highway and spend it buffering FEC Park, but we

 

      19        agreed to move -- now, that's on top of the

 

      20        landscape requirements.  This is our tree

 

      21        mitigation requirements.

 

      22             We want to do everything we can to make

 

      23        this project successful.  We want to be part of

 

      24        that community.  We don't want to spend 20, 30,

 

      25        $40 million in a blighted area, again, stepping

 

 

 

 

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       1        up to the plate, and have it fail.

 

       2             You know, we're the ones who are willing to

 

       3        do it -- you know, I almost chuckled when

 

       4        Mr. Franklin called it a prime location.  If it

 

       5        was so prime, I'm surprised somebody hadn't

 

       6        jumped on it a little quicker, but, you know,

 

       7        it's not a prime location.

 

       8             We're the first guys in the door.  We're

 

       9        the guys in the door who are taking the chance

 

      10        to try to clean up Philips Highway.  This is the

 

      11        anchor.  This is the anchor, what's going to

 

      12        happen on Philips Highway.

 

      13             You know, if there was additional

 

      14        requirements they wanted --

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden, are you closing

 

      16        or are you rebutting?

 

      17             MR. HARDEN:  No, I'm rebutting, I thought.

 

      18        But if you feel like I'm closing, I'll sit down.

 

      19             I'm just responding to the comments that

 

      20        they -- there wasn't enough information.

 

      21             We believe there is.  If there wasn't, I

 

      22        suspect we would have gotten another set of

 

      23        interrogatories or another list of conditions.

 

      24             We think all of those matters are addressed

 

      25        in there, and we hope that you will approve it

 

 

 

 

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       1        with the Planning Department conditions and the

 

       2        additional conditions that were added on.

 

       3             I'll save my -- if you -- my close for --

 

       4        after Mr. Franklin talks.  I won't do mine first

 

       5        and let him come back up.  I'll just do mine

 

       6        and --

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, you have five

 

      10        minutes to close.

 

      11             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

      12             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      13             I guess in closing, we would just ask the

 

      14        committee here to put some conditions in this

 

      15        that would guarantee that what Mr. Harden is

 

      16        proposing will come to light and fruition, the

 

      17        "what if" factor.

 

      18             I appreciate the fact that they're going in

 

      19        and investing money here.  I'm sure the

 

      20        neighborhood does.  They'd love to see this

 

      21        project happen and be a success.  But that

 

      22        doesn't change the fact that if it is not a

 

      23        success, that the PUD that you would adopt as

 

      24        it's conditioned right now, even adding the

 

      25        conditions that Mr. Harden I'm guessing is

 

 

 

 

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       1        agreeing to -- I'd ask him if he is, the four or

 

       2        five conditions from, I guess, the -- Friday's

 

       3        meeting with Councilman Shad.

 

       4             It seems to be -- we're happy with some of

 

       5        those.  The landscaping, that was one of the

 

       6        issues.  The Jacksonville Journey initiative

 

       7        things, we're happy with those.  But we have

 

       8        other bigger issue that aren't taken care of by

 

       9        this, namely, that this is not required to be a

 

      10        mixed-use project.  It's not.  It could be in

 

      11        the sense that it has to be at least 10 percent

 

      12        commercial, but otherwise it could be a

 

      13        90 percent residential project.  That's a small

 

      14        coffee shop and a multifamily apartment

 

      15        complex.

 

      16             Some of the apartment or parking things

 

      17        that Mr. Harden has asked for in terms of

 

      18        deviations or adjustments for off-site parking,

 

      19        those are based on projections of

 

      20        750-square-foot units.  There's no requirement

 

      21        that this consist of executive-type-only houses

 

      22        or upper-end, you know, vacation condos, any of

 

      23        those kind of things.  These can be two- and

 

      24        three-bedroom units, which will require more

 

      25        parking.

 

 

 

 

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       1             And you go through it, some of the -- some

 

       2        of the speakers spoke to the inconsistencies in

 

       3        this, it speaks to single-family, it speaks to

 

       4        mixed use.

 

       5             Two things Paul said.  He used the term

 

       6        "zoning code," and I'm sure my colleague,

 

       7        Mr. Harden, meant to say the "comprehensive

 

       8        plan."

 

       9             The comprehensive plan does allow

 

      10        single-family.  The comprehensive plan also

 

      11        allows up to 60 units per acre, or somewhere in

 

      12        there.  It's not exactly spelled out exactly

 

      13        what CGC allows, but up to it in a -- in a high

 

      14        density, but that's under the comprehensive

 

      15        plan.

 

      16             The zoning categories that are currently

 

      17        there would not allow this, would not allow

 

      18        single-family uses, yet that's in the list of

 

      19        uses, and those uses and traffic for

 

      20        single-family have not been evaluated.

 

      21             And that's -- you know, again, the -- some

 

      22        of the speakers -- there's no transit-oriented

 

      23        development standards in this.  You know, as

 

      24        Mr. Harden said, call it whatever you want, but

 

      25        what they've been calling it is transit-oriented

 

 

 

 

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       1        development.

 

       2             And what they've done -- he said, you know,

 

       3        we submitted detailed information to the

 

       4        Planning Department before we even got in the

 

       5        door.  The problem is, that detail-oriented

 

       6        information is not contained in the PUD.

 

       7             These are nice, pretty pictures.  They're

 

       8        good development plans.  They're great to take

 

       9        to a bank and try to get money or to get

 

      10        investors for a project, but it is not what this

 

      11        PUD is requiring them to build, and that's the

 

      12        disconnect we're having.

 

      13             We're simply saying, an oral promise is not

 

      14        worth the paper it's written on, and you

 

      15        shouldn't want to rely on that in today's market

 

      16        with a substitute developer down the road, a

 

      17        successor developer, or if this project is sold

 

      18        off piecemeal.

 

      19             There are no master maintenance controls

 

      20        here, which is one of the things that's supposed

 

      21        to be in the written description.  Who is going

 

      22        to maintain certain amenities?  Who's going to

 

      23        maintain some of the infrastructure that's in

 

      24        this thing?  How's that going to be taken care

 

      25        of?  It's not here.  It's supposed to be, but

 

 

 

 

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       1        it's not.  So that's really our issue with it

 

       2        all along.

 

       3             We like the pretty pictures we see.  We

 

       4        like what they're saying.  We like the

 

       5        four-story.  They're saying, well, we want 75,

 

       6        but we're only going to go four-story,

 

       7        approximately 45, maybe 50.  We're okay with

 

       8        that, but if that's what they're saying they're

 

       9        going to do, why don't you require them to do

 

      10        that.  That's the pictures you've looked at.

 

      11        That's the pictures they've presented at the

 

      12        community meetings.  That's what they've said

 

      13        they're going to do.  That's all we're asking

 

      14        here.  For instance, some of the height.

 

      15             So that is really -- that's really our

 

      16        issues with this.

 

      17             And you saw the list of conditions we put

 

      18        in.  Those conditions -- getting back to my

 

      19        rebuttal, slash, opening statement,

 

      20        Mr. Graham -- Chair Graham called it.

 

      21             We've got a lot of very intelligent people

 

      22        in the San Marco group who are very committed to

 

      23        their neighborhood and have worked with their

 

      24        councilperson and with staff throughout the

 

      25        years on making sure that neighborhood is really

 

 

 

 

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       1        the crown jewel of Jacksonville.

 

       2             Vibrant TND development, it works, and it

 

       3        works because of these people.  And they're very

 

       4        bright, very passionate about what they do, and

 

       5        this list of conditions is not a set of -- not a

 

       6        list of crazy conditions, just a, you know, not

 

       7        in my backyard mentality whatsoever.  These are

 

       8        very reasonable, very well thought out, and we

 

       9        think ought to be acceptable for a development

 

      10        of this size.

 

      11             Based on what they've told us, these

 

      12        conditions should be acceptable to them because

 

      13        basically all it does is tell them do what you

 

      14        said you were going to do.  That's all these

 

      15        conditions -- there's nothing really new or

 

      16        unique with any of them.

 

      17             The big issue, of course, again, River Oaks

 

      18        Road.  I think you've heard plenty about that,

 

      19        but, again, that -- that's the issue here.

 

      20             Planning Commission found, after a lot of

 

      21        testimony -- similar hearing, two-hour-and-

 

      22        45-minute hearing, put a condition on there to

 

      23        limit access to River Oaks Road from the PUD.

 

      24        That was based on a lot of testimony from the

 

      25        staff, from transportation, who -- who were

 

 

 

 

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       1        there at that time.  That's what they adopted.

 

       2        We'd ask you to keep that in there.

 

       3             And, again, Mr. Harden, at that meeting,

 

       4        said we're going to go along with whatever you

 

       5        come up with.  Well, that's what they came up

 

       6        with, and yet today it's, you either get the

 

       7        development or you don't.  If we can't have

 

       8        access to River Oaks Road, you don't get it.

 

       9             And I submit to you that's not true.  This

 

      10        isn't a buyer in downtown Jacksonville.  He's

 

      11        not going to build a 20-story, 900-unit hotel

 

      12        there.  There's not going to be a 14-unit

 

      13        multifamily -- 14-story multifamily housing

 

      14        there.  Those things are not viable and aren't

 

      15        going to happen.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin, your five

 

      17        minutes have surpassed.

 

      18             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      19             Can I have ten seconds to just wrap it up?

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.

 

      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.  Those things aren't

 

      22        going to happen.  What could happen is a good

 

      23        TOD-oriented development.  We'd like you to put

 

      24        conditions in there to make sure that that's

 

      25        what happens.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Thank you.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  I've got a question.

 

       3             I received this package from Ms. Sasser.

 

       4        It's got about 17 conditions at the end.  Are

 

       5        you guys satisfied with this development if

 

       6        those 17 conditions go in?

 

       7             Yes or no question.

 

       8             MR. FRANKLIN:  I had submitter earlier,

 

       9        Mr. Chair, a -- I believe a condensed version of

 

      10        those seventeen conditions into ten.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      12             MR. FRANKLIN:  Those are the final

 

      13        San Marco Preservation Society conditions.  We

 

      14        think they're an improvement.  We think they're

 

      15        actually better than --

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So --

 

      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  So with those --

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those ten conditions.

 

      19             MR. FRANKLIN:  Yes, sir.

 

      20             And I would -- I'd just point out too, I

 

      21        think at least -- the landscaping portion --

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Your time is over.

 

      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, just answering your

 

      24        question.  We're -- I think a couple of them are

 

      25        already off the table, the developer has

 

 

 

 

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       1        accepted them, so --

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       3             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden.

 

       5             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  I mean, I think it's clear

 

       8        now, and I -- it's been that way for a while,

 

       9        that the issue is the conditions.  We think the

 

      10        Planning Department conditions are sufficient.

 

      11             To respond to the specific question, as --

 

      12        as you said, at Planning Commission it was 14,

 

      13        today it was 17, an hour before you started it

 

      14        was 10 conditions.  Every one of those items is

 

      15        addressed in the condition list that Ms. Eller

 

      16        came up with from our meeting Friday in the

 

      17        Planning Department, so they would be

 

      18        redundant.

 

      19             And I'm going to go quickly through them,

 

      20        but the clarity issue they asked for is not to

 

      21        have inconsistency between the site plan and the

 

      22        written description, and we agreed that we'll

 

      23        substantially comply with the written

 

      24        description.

 

      25             They asked that we comply with the

 

 

 

 

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       1        Jacksonville Journey requirements.  We said any

 

       2        multifamily housing within the PUD will comply

 

       3        with the Jacksonville Journey Neighborhood

 

       4        Safety and Stability Committee.

 

       5             Likewise, that they owner and management

 

       6        will comply with the Jacksonville sheriff's

 

       7        crime free -- these are all things they asked

 

       8        for that we put in there.

 

       9             With regard to parking, we were at

 

      10        1.2 -- .25.  They asked -- I think Councilman

 

      11        Shad said let's go to 1.33.

 

      12             There was a question about the commercial.

 

      13        There was an issue.  We raised that number from

 

      14        what the Planning Department asked us to do.

 

      15             The phasing requires that we develop in the

 

      16        first phase residential -- excuse me -- retail

 

      17        activity.  That's what's going to be on the

 

      18        bottom.  That's a requirement of one of those

 

      19        conditions.

 

      20             The additional height limitation, there was

 

      21        a request that within the first 100 feet --

 

      22        that's the feet -- you've got FEC Park, and then

 

      23        you've got a 150-foot railroad, and then you've

 

      24        got a 100-foot area, and then off that 100 feet

 

      25        we agreed to lower the heights down to 53 feet,

 

 

 

 

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       1        which was three stories.  Tonight they're saying

 

       2        45 feet.  And that won't kill the project, you

 

       3        know, but, you know, we keep giving and giving,

 

       4        I think, and -- we think what we did Friday was

 

       5        a fair compromise.

 

       6             The recreation, they said that we'll comply

 

       7        with the comp plan.  We put that in there.

 

       8        We'll comply with the 150 square foot.

 

       9             The landscaping, you already heard that

 

      10        we'll put 50 percent of the tree mitigation on

 

      11        site.  We think it's fair to put it some other

 

      12        place.

 

      13             I -- you know, I said this a little bit in

 

      14        the rebuttal.  And, honest to goodness, Cypress

 

      15        wants to be a good neighbor here.  They are

 

      16        doing a lot of ground-breaking activity on

 

      17        Philips Highway.  They're trying to clean up the

 

      18        neighborhood.  They don't want to make anybody

 

      19        angry next door to them.

 

      20             You know, this is a project that -- we've

 

      21        got to rent out the units.  My guess is it's

 

      22        going to be the children of people who live in

 

      23        San Marco or people in San Marco who are

 

      24        downsizing that are going to live in these

 

      25        units.

 

 

 

 

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       1             I suspect for the retail activity that's

 

       2        going to be below it, other than our tenants, if

 

       3        you look around and see where the activity is

 

       4        going to come from, that's the target market.

 

       5             But this area is not a prime location now.

 

       6        It's an area that needs a lot of help and a lot

 

       7        of cleaning up.  We are putting some very

 

       8        substantial conditions on it.  We need to be

 

       9        able to have some flexibility, although it's

 

      10        pretty specific, we think, by the written

 

      11        conditions.

 

      12             We would respectfully request that you

 

      13        approve the application with the Planning

 

      14        Department conditions, not the limitation of

 

      15        access to River Oaks Road -- we beat that horse;

 

      16        it's ten peak-hour trips -- and those seven -- I

 

      17        think there are nine.  One, two, three, four,

 

      18        five, six, seven -- eight conditions that

 

      19        Ms. Eller came out of with in the meeting on

 

      20        Friday.

 

      21             We think that answers all -- well, we know

 

      22        that answers every one of the questions that's

 

      23        raised in both the 17 conditions and the issues

 

      24        raised in the report, and we think that

 

      25        sufficiently allows Cypress to do what needs to

 

 

 

 

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       1        be done, that's clean up this area.

 

       2             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

       4             Okay.  We are going to take a break because

 

       5        our court reporter needs to rest her hands.  And

 

       6        while we take that break, we're probably going

 

       7        to take a dinner break, so we're going to

 

       8        probably take about a good 30, 35 minutes.

 

       9             I have 7:35 here.  I guess we'll come back

 

      10        at 8:10.

 

      11             I don't know if Mr. Shad wanted to say a

 

      12        word or two because some of these people may not

 

      13        still be here when we come back --

 

      14             MR. SHAD:  No.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- or if you just want to

 

      16        wait till we come back.

 

      17             MR. SHAD:  (Shakes head.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I would ask that

 

      19        nobody come into the Green Room because we don't

 

      20        need any more testimony.  But, like I said,

 

      21        we'll start back up again at 8:10.

 

      22             Thank you.

 

      23             (Brief recess.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're ready to get

 

      25        started here.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. WEBB:  Planning Department -- let's

 

       2        just go ahead and move the amendment.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  It got moved.

 

       4             Anybody second it?

 

       5             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's hear the amendment

 

       7        that's been agreed upon by both sides so far and

 

       8        we'll make sure that that gets into the record,

 

       9        and then we'll just take it from there one at a

 

      10        time.

 

      11             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, the amendment,

 

      12        again:

 

      13             "The development shall be subject to the

 

      14        original legal description dated June 23rd,

 

      15        2008."

 

      16             "The development shall be subject to the

 

      17        revised written description dated September 17,

 

      18        2008."

 

      19             Condition 3, "The development shall be

 

      20        subject to the revised site plan dated

 

      21        September 17, 2008."

 

      22             Four, "The development shall be subject to

 

      23        the review and approval of the Development

 

      24        Services Division, pursuant to the memorandum

 

      25        dated September 8, 2008, except comment 3 in the

 

 

 

 

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       1        FDOT memorandum dated July 22nd, 2008, attached,

 

       2        or as otherwise approved by FDOT and the

 

       3        Planning and Development Department."

 

       4             Five, "At the time of verification of

 

       5        substantial compliance, a phasing schedule shall

 

       6        be provided to the Planning and Development

 

       7        Department."

 

       8             Six -- this is the revised condition that

 

       9        the staff is recommending at this time in lieu

 

      10        of the Planning Commission condition.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      12             MR. KELLY:  Six, "Prior to any residential

 

      13        development beyond 30 units an acre, an enhanced

 

      14        mass transit station with amenities shall be

 

      15        completed in a manner that is consistent with

 

      16        and supports long-range planning options,

 

      17        including a potential BRT, bus rapid transit,

 

      18        commuter or other transit modes identified by

 

      19        the JTA.

 

      20             "The enhanced transit station, per the

 

      21        attached Exhibit A, will accommodate a current

 

      22        fixed route bus to BRT services and include two

 

      23        kiosks providing passenger and system

 

      24        information, route maps, ticketing via machine,

 

      25        real time schedules, next bus arriving

 

 

 

 

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       1        information, lighting, music, cooling fans,

 

       2        benches.

 

       3             "The station will be oriented to allow

 

       4        waiting passengers convenient access to retail

 

       5        services."

 

       6             Condition 7, "The roundabouts shall contain

 

       7        a fountain feature and/or piece of public art."

 

       8             Eight, the condition reads, "The applicant

 

       9        shall provide at least one dedicated parking

 

      10        space per multifamily dwelling unit plus one

 

      11        guest space per parking space per three

 

      12        multifamily dwelling units, or a minimum" -- and

 

      13        I believe this is "1.33 spaces per dwelling

 

      14        unit."

 

      15             Condition 9, "Sidewalks along Jackson

 

      16        Square Boulevard shall be no less than eight

 

      17        feet in width."

 

      18             Condition 10, "At the time of verification

 

      19        of substantial compliance, the applicant will

 

      20        provide a pedestrian plan that shows street

 

      21        trees, street furniture along Jackson Square

 

      22        Boulevard, and perimeter landscaping areas

 

      23        fronting Philips Highway."

 

      24             Eleven, "All entry signage shall be

 

      25        architecturally consistent, of a monument style,

 

 

 

 

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       1        and be limited to 200 square feet per sign

 

       2        face."

 

       3             Twelve, "Signage that advertises

 

       4        multifamily uses shall be nonilluminated or

 

       5        externally illuminated except on Philips Highway

 

       6        or Jackson Square Boulevard where they may be

 

       7        internally illuminated."

 

       8             Condition 13, as adopted at the Planning

 

       9        Commission meeting last Thursday, "There shall

 

      10        be no access from the subject property to and

 

      11        from Summerall Avenue or River Oaks Road."

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Shad.

 

      13             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.

 

      14             I thought it might make sense to add the

 

      15        conditions mutually agreed upon at the

 

      16        referenced Friday meeting between the applicant

 

      17        and the preservation society and myself.

 

      18             I would note that -- I don't mean to say

 

      19        that these go to the extent that the

 

      20        preservation society wanted them to, but these

 

      21        are -- I have one, two, three, four, five,

 

      22        six -- seven conditions which were handed out,

 

      23        one of which was already referenced in the

 

      24        parking, from one and a quarter to 1.33.

 

      25             But would now be the appropriate time to

 

 

 

 

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       1        read these in and make it all into one amendment

 

       2        since these are mutually agreed upon?

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, let's do the Planning

 

       4        Department's first and get the approval, yes or

 

       5        no, from the applicant.  Then we'll do yours and

 

       6        get his yes or no, and we'll combine those.

 

       7             And then whenever the committees want to do

 

       8        anything one way or the other, then we'll play

 

       9        that game.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  Okay.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden.

 

      12             MR. HARDEN:  You're asking about my

 

      13        relationship with those conditions?

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  We're fine with the first 12.

 

      16             Obviously, the one -- the Planning

 

      17        Commission condition we're not agreeable to.

 

      18        The Planning Department's 12 conditions we are

 

      19        agreeable to.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  So you're agreeable with

 

      21        everything except for closing off access to

 

      22        River Oaks Road?

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  That's correct.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So let's --

 

      25             The amendment that's in front of us is 13,

 

 

 

 

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       1        and he's not happy -- he's only happy with 12 of

 

       2        them.

 

       3             Shannon, where are we now?  Does the

 

       4        committee --

 

       5             I'm sorry.  Let's just go ahead and approve

 

       6        the 13 -- I'm sorry.  Let's go ahead and approve

 

       7        the 12, and then we'll figure out from there if

 

       8        someone wants to add it or if they're sufficient

 

       9        with it.

 

      10             Mr. Harden, the record shows that you're

 

      11        happy with the first 12.

 

      12             MR. HARDEN:  I'm agreeable to the first 12,

 

      13        yes.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Any other discussion

 

      15        on those first 12?

 

      16             On the first 12?

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  Yes.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Joost.

 

      19             MR. JOOST:  Is there an actual list we can

 

      20        look at?

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.

 

      22             MR. JOOST:  I've got so many papers in

 

      23        front.

 

      24             Okay.  I've got 10 on this one.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's -- this list they

 

 

 

 

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       1        added the one space for multifamily, one

 

       2        visitor's space for three units.

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  Next page.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, he had the right page.

 

       5             And they had --

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  He's reading the wrong ones.

 

       7        That's the San Marco.

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  That's why I'm confused.  I've

 

       9        got so many lists in front of me, I'm not

 

      10        sure --

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  It's in your book.

 

      12             MR. HARDEN:  He just read the ones off the

 

      13        Planning Department report as amended.

 

      14             MR. JOOST:  Off this list (indicating)?

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  In your yellow book.

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  Stand by.

 

      17             MS. ELLER:  It's the memorandum from the

 

      18        Planning Department --

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Page 12.

 

      20             MS. ELLER:  -- dated September 25th, 2008.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Page 12.

 

      22             MR. JOOST:  I got it.  Thank you.

 

      23             Should we make copies for all the committee

 

      24        members or --

 

      25             MS. ELLER:  Everybody's got it.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. JOOST:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any other questions about

 

       3        the 12?

 

       4             Ms. Eller.

 

       5             MS. ELLER:  Mr. Chairman, if it pleases the

 

       6        committee, I can take all of the different

 

       7        conditions that you discuss from here on out and

 

       8        roll them into one document, even if you'd like

 

       9        to approve them separately by a separate vote.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  That is the plan.

 

      11             Okay.  We're on the first 12.  We will call

 

      12        this the Planning Department's amendment.

 

      13             All in favor signify by saying aye.

 

      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      18        approved the first amendment.

 

      19             Mr. Shad.

 

      20             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.

 

      21             I had a meeting on Friday and left that

 

      22        meeting with a number of items that were agreed

 

      23        upon.  I would like to comment for a moment.

 

      24        There was some discussion -- some comments about

 

      25        the number of amendments that the preservation

 

 

 

 

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       1        society had come up with, maybe suggesting that

 

       2        it was, you know, out of line or there were too

 

       3        many of them.

 

       4             And I would just say that I -- you know,

 

       5        they've worked hard bringing these lists

 

       6        together.  It has been a moving target, and I

 

       7        think everyone has done a real good job trying

 

       8        to get to where we are now.  I wanted to make

 

       9        that comment.

 

      10             But in front of us you have a handout that

 

      11        has number 7 through 17.  Those were the actual

 

      12        numbers that correspond to the original

 

      13        17 conditions that the preservation society had,

 

      14        but there's a condition -- we'll call it -- what

 

      15        do you want to call these?

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Start at one again.  This is

 

      17        the Art Shad amendment.

 

      18             MR. SHAD:  Okay.  Number 1, "The

 

      19        development shall substantially comply with the

 

      20        revised site plan dated September 17th, 2008,

 

      21        and maximum lot coverage shall not exceed

 

      22        80 percent."

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  So basically we've already

 

      24        done the development, should not -- it should be

 

      25        the revised description of September 17th,

 

 

 

 

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       1        2008.  You just want to say "lot coverage will

 

       2        not exceed 80 percent"?

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  And I think "substantially

 

       4        comply" is an important word, to kind of go

 

       5        through it a little bit further.  So we just do

 

       6        it the same, exactly how I'm reading it.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  We'll do it.

 

       8             MR. SHAD:  Number 2, "Any multifamily

 

       9        housing development within the PUD shall be

 

      10        designed and constructed in accordance with

 

      11        CPTED standards as recommended by the

 

      12        Jacksonville Journey Neighborhood Safety and

 

      13        Stability Committee."

 

      14             Number 3, "The owner and management of any

 

      15        multifamily apartments developed within the PUD

 

      16        shall participate in the JSO's crime-free

 

      17        multifamily housing program in accordance with

 

      18        the recommendations of the Jacksonville Journey

 

      19        Neighborhood Safety and Stability Committee."

 

      20             The next one, number 4, we took -- was

 

      21        adjusted in the Planning Department's

 

      22        conditions, so we skipped that.

 

      23             So number 4 would then be, "Phase I,

 

      24        residential development, shall be limited to

 

      25        30 units per gross acre of land within the

 

 

 

 

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       1        phase, and Phase I shall contain a minimum of

 

       2        15,000 square feet of retail uses.

 

       3             "No additional residential development

 

       4        shall be permitted until a minimum of 50,000

 

       5        square feet of office/retail has been

 

       6        constructed."

 

       7             Number 5, "No development greater than

 

       8        53 feet shall be permitted within 100 feet of

 

       9        the westerly boundary of the PUD adjacent to the

 

      10        FEC right-of-way."

 

      11             Next, number 6, "Will comply with the

 

      12        comprehensive plan requirement of 150 square

 

      13        feet of open space per residential unit."

 

      14             And lastly, "A minimum of 50 percent of the

 

      15        landscape requirements shall be provided on

 

      16        site; a 10-foot perimeter buffer shall be

 

      17        provided adjacent to single-family residences

 

      18        located along the north property line at the

 

      19        time of verification of substantial compliance;

 

      20        VUAs shall be landscaped in accordance with

 

      21        Part 12."

 

      22             Now, that -- those did not go as far -- and

 

      23        there are going to be other conditions that I

 

      24        would want to talk to you about when we get into

 

      25        discussion that the community would like to see

 

 

 

 

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       1        adopted, but these were what we could agree

 

       2        upon.

 

       3             So let's get the what we could agree upon

 

       4        out, and then we can -- you know, we have plenty

 

       5        to talk about on what the neighborhood would

 

       6        like to see as far as additional amendments that

 

       7        I don't believe the developer at this point has

 

       8        agreed upon.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Franklin.  You might as

 

      10        well stay up front.

 

      11             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did you hear those

 

      13        conditions that Mr. Shad read?

 

      14             MR. FRANKLIN:  I did, Mr. Chairman.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Are they the conditions, as

 

      16        far as you know, that was agreed upon last

 

      17        week?

 

      18             MR. FRANKLIN:  They were not agreed upon

 

      19        last week.  I mean, I think Councilman Shad said

 

      20        we asked for conditions that would go -- extend

 

      21        behind that.

 

      22             The two Jacksonville Journey conditions, I

 

      23        believe number 2 and 3, and then the condition

 

      24        about the landscape buffer and the condition

 

      25        about the rec space, those four out of that

 

 

 

 

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       1        list, we could agree to those.  Those are fine,

 

       2        but the other ones don't go far enough, in our

 

       3        opinion, and we'd like to see additional --

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  But you're not

 

       5        opposed to any.  You just want more?

 

       6             MR. FRANKLIN:  We'd like to have those.

 

       7        Something is better than nothing, Mr. Chairman.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       9             Mr. Harden.

 

      10             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      11             MR. HARDEN:  I don't know what to say.  If

 

      12        they don't want them, we don't want them.

 

      13             I'm not sure what the answer to the

 

      14        question was.

 

      15             These are all things that they asked for

 

      16        that we came to a middle ground on, so we're

 

      17        going to start at the middle ground and

 

      18        negotiate.

 

      19             The whole purpose of that meeting was so we

 

      20        don't negotiate on the floor, so -- I'm not sure

 

      21        what he agreed -- the Jacksonville Journey

 

      22        stuff, I don't think anybody has a beef with.

 

      23        That was -- that was the second and third one,

 

      24        and I'm not sure what the other two was that he

 

      25        said he agreed to.

 

 

 

 

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       1             I've got it in front of me.  I just don't

 

       2        know which ones Tim says he's agreeable to.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  So my understanding is that

 

       4        the neighborhood is not okay with development --

 

       5        the development shall be -- substantially comply

 

       6        with the reserved [sic] site plan; is that

 

       7        correct?  And should not exceed 80 percent lot

 

       8        coverage?

 

       9             Mr. Franklin.

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  Just real quick, just to be

 

      11        clear.  It would be on this list here

 

      12        (indicating), we would agree with 8, 9, 16, and

 

      13        17.  Those four we're okay with, and that was

 

      14        agreed to at the meeting Thursday -- Friday.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So --

 

      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  We agree with number 7 that

 

      17        you asked about.  We would like to see that the

 

      18        site plan shall control over any inconsistency

 

      19        with the revised written description, so we

 

      20        don't think it goes far enough.

 

      21             It's fine the way it's written, but we'd

 

      22        ask in our conditions -- as you see, since

 

      23        there's not a whole lot in the written

 

      24        description, we wanted to make sure that the

 

      25        site plan controls, where usually it's the

 

 

 

 

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       1        opposite.

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  Are we going to reargue each

 

       3        one of these as we go through them,

 

       4        Mr. Chairman?

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  I think there's only three

 

       6        here.  So I'm going to try to get to a point,

 

       7        you know, the stuff that you guys agree with, I

 

       8        agree with you.  If you thought you want

 

       9        50 percent, they don't think that you want

 

      10        50 percent, then there's no sense even putting

 

      11        it on there.  And we can kind of hash it up that

 

      12        way, but --

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  Yeah, that's fine.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  So, Mr. Franklin, the first

 

      15        one, what do you want the language to say?

 

      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  We would like to say in the

 

      17        revised site plan, "The site plan shall control

 

      18        over any inconsistency with the written

 

      19        description."

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden, yes or no?

 

      21             MR. HARDEN:  We're agreeable to the

 

      22        language that Shannon has in here, that we'll

 

      23        have substantial compliance.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  So you're not agreeable to

 

      25        the language he just said?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  No.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  The next one.  Let's

 

       3        go to number 14.

 

       4             MR. HARDEN:  Number 14 -- I've got them

 

       5        numbered 7 through 17.

 

       6             I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.  Number 14 on the

 

       8        list.  You said you've got 7 through 17,

 

       9        correct?

 

      10             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, sir.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  And he said he wasn't

 

      12        agreeable to 14.

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  Go ahead.  I got you.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, what did you want

 

      15        number 14 to say?  You said it didn't go far

 

      16        enough, Mr. Franklin.

 

      17             MR. FRANKLIN:  If you'd look at the

 

      18        condition that we wrote in the San Marco

 

      19        Preservation Society and other lists that you

 

      20        have in front of you -- sorry to burden you with

 

      21        so many lists, but it's marked "phasing."

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      23             MR. FRANKLIN:  We'd essentially asked

 

      24        for -- we'd offer up to 300 residential units in

 

      25        Phase I, which is consistent with their Phase I

 

 

 

 

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       1        site plan that's been submitted and the CCAS

 

       2        which showed 281 units.  So it's a little bit

 

       3        more, give them a little more flexibility.  And

 

       4        we'd ask for 18,000 square feet, which is a

 

       5        reduction from what we'd originally asked for of

 

       6        20-.

 

       7             And then we had -- just tracking that

 

       8        forward, we went a little further in terms of a

 

       9        Phase II and the ability to max out above

 

      10        600 units would be related to a transit shelter

 

      11        being operational.

 

      12             So we're comfortable with that language.

 

      13        We think it phases it more, especially since the

 

      14        written description doesn't contain a phasing

 

      15        schedule.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, what I read here on

 

      17        your phasing schedule, it says a minimum of

 

      18        20,000 square feet, and it says a minimum of

 

      19        180,000 office and retail.

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  I don't know which one you're

 

      21        looking at either, Counsel.

 

      22             MR. FRANKLIN:  Okay.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  I can't keep up with it.

 

      24        Maybe --

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's stick with the sheet

 

 

 

 

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       1        that you guys both have in front of you.

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  What are the changes you

 

       4        want to see to that 14, or can you get there

 

       5        without looking at that number 14?

 

       6             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, I'd say that the first

 

       7        sentence, the 30 units and the 15,000 square

 

       8        feet, we could live with that.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      10             MR. FRANKLIN:  The first sentence.

 

      11             MR. HARDEN:  But it's not within the phase,

 

      12        it's within the project.  It's 30 units on the

 

      13        project unless you go to the BRT, and only then

 

      14        do you go above -- I mean, if you want to make

 

      15        that 18, I don't care.  I mean, that's --

 

      16             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, I just want to be

 

      17        clear.  We did mean that Phase I would be

 

      18        limited to 30 units and that there would be

 

      19        15,000 square feet of retail in Phase I.

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  I thought you said you didn't

 

      21        agree with that.

 

      22             MR. FRANKLIN:  We'll, that's what it says.

 

      23        I'm just reading right off that.  I'm reading

 

      24        what we --

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So you guys aren't

 

 

 

 

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       1        going to be able to agree on 14.

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  Point of order.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Bear with me.  We've got one

 

       4        left.

 

       5             What's your point of order, Mr. Webb?  You

 

       6        called a point of order.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Yeah, point of order, through

 

       8        the Chair to the General Counsel's Office.

 

       9             I mean, this is a quasi-judicial

 

      10        proceeding.  Is it our role as a council to be

 

      11        mediating this dispute between the applicant and

 

      12        the community?

 

      13             MS. ELLER:  The role is to determine

 

      14        whether or not these conditions can offset the

 

      15        impacts that you've identified as a group.  I

 

      16        believe that the impacts that have been

 

      17        identified are being vetted through this process

 

      18        with mediating between the two sides.  So it's

 

      19        your discretion.  That's your role.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  I take that as a yes, through

 

      21        the Chair?

 

      22             MS. ELLER:  Yes.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Clark.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Through the Chair, if

 

      25        Councilman Shad will indulge me.  Did you --

 

 

 

 

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       1        didn't we start this entire conversation by you

 

       2        saying "I sat down and negotiated with these

 

       3        two," and then they're coming to the table

 

       4        tonight and saying, "No, I changed my mind.  We

 

       5        don't want these"?

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  That's not correct.  I said I

 

       7        came up with these, and I said that I didn't --

 

       8        I made it very clear they didn't go quite as far

 

       9        as the neighborhood wanted.

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  Okay.

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  These are what I thought -- you

 

      12        know, this is the Art Shad conditions.

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  Okay.

 

      14             MR. SHAD:  And I think you should just pass

 

      15        these out in totality.

 

      16             Now, we're going to -- after that, I

 

      17        envisioned -- at some point we're going to get

 

      18        into discussion in committee, I imagine.  I've

 

      19        got some things to say.

 

      20             But I assumed that after that point, we

 

      21        would then go and reference the latest requests

 

      22        from the community, and there's a few that

 

      23        weren't covered on here.  And, as a committee,

 

      24        I've got some comments on them.  And then, as a

 

      25        committee, you would decide whether or not they

 

 

 

 

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       1        made sense.  I --

 

       2             You know, these weren't super

 

       3        controversial.  I kind of -- we -- you know, it

 

       4        wasn't an agreement, but it was what I came up

 

       5        with out of that two-hour meeting.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Jones, did you

 

       7        have any comments about Mr. Shad's seven?

 

       8             MR. JONES:  No.  I had the same question as

 

       9        Mr. Clark, that I thought that these were agreed

 

      10        upon at the meeting on Friday and reduced to

 

      11        writing by Ms. Eller, and I was surprised we

 

      12        were having this discussion.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Harden, you're

 

      14        okay with Mr. Shad's seven?

 

      15             You're the applicant.

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Chairman, it puts me in

 

      17        a -- it's a difficult position.  We met and we

 

      18        went halfway, and now we're going to start

 

      19        negotiating from what I agree -- it's just -- I

 

      20        mean, I guess, yeah, these don't kill us.  But,

 

      21        you know, now we're going to start over from

 

      22        where we agreed, and it's just not a -- I kind

 

      23        of tend to agree with Mr. Webb.  This isn't a

 

      24        negotiating session.  This is the proposal, and

 

      25        I think we're --

 

 

 

 

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       1             If they want to start all over, let's start

 

       2        all over.  If not -- and I take -- had a

 

       3        different take on Mr. Shad's description of the

 

       4        meeting.  Ms. Eller was the scrivener and

 

       5        Councilman Shad went through, Are y'all

 

       6        agreeable?  You agree?  Yes.  Here's what we're

 

       7        agreeable to, and she reduced to writing what

 

       8        she thought everybody was agreeable to, and my

 

       9        recollection was the same as hers.

 

      10             Now, Mr. Franklin wasn't at that meeting.

 

      11        And I understand Councilman Shad's position was

 

      12        that they had some higher -- they had some other

 

      13        things they wanted, but now we're going to start

 

      14        over from where we agreed.

 

      15             So, yes, we agreed to these with regard

 

      16        to -- except 14.  It's not gross acres within

 

      17        the phase.  It's within the project.

 

      18             Yes, we are agreeable to those seven

 

      19        conditions.  That being said, I don't want to

 

      20        start over on everything else as well.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I heard the applicant

 

      22        is okay with the seven that Mr. Shad has.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  With the one change in 14 that

 

      24        the word -- and Sean can correct me --

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  It just strikes the words

 

 

 

 

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       1        "Phase I" -- or the two words "Phase I."

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  Well, it says Phase I shall be

 

       3        limited to 30 -- just take out "within the

 

       4        phase."  And then the 15,000 square feet.  I do

 

       5        recall, now, that Councilman Shad -- that they

 

       6        were 20- and we suggested 15-, and I'm not sure

 

       7        we actually came to a number on that.

 

       8             But we'll live with Ms. Eller's

 

       9        recommendation -- recollection.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Shad.

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  The suggestion to start over,

 

      12        you know, is attractive.

 

      13             The --

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Was that a deferral?

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  No.  You know, this -- at some

 

      16        point I have some comments to make.  I don't

 

      17        know if now would be the correct time.  I guess

 

      18        we just jumped right into the amendments and

 

      19        it's kind of awkward not to be able to make some

 

      20        general comments on the development.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Shad.  Well, I'm sorry.

 

      22        This is Mr. Jones' district.

 

      23             MR. SHAD:  Well, absolutely.  I'll defer to

 

      24        Councilman Jones.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  I was going to say, I was

 

 

 

 

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       1        going to get Mr. Jones to add his piece.  And,

 

       2        Mr. Shad, I'll let you add your piece.  And

 

       3        we'll see what the committee wants to do from

 

       4        there.

 

       5             Mr. Jones.

 

       6             MR. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       7             First of all, let me commend Mr. Shad and

 

       8        the San Marco Preservation organization for

 

       9        working to try to come up with some conditions

 

      10        that would protect their neighborhood.

 

      11             When I first looked at this project, I

 

      12        immediately saw a plus for the neighborhood, the

 

      13        neighborhood being the area that I represent,

 

      14        which is along Philips Highway.

 

      15             One, historically, our community has been

 

      16        divided by railroad tracks.  You know, if you

 

      17        live on one side of the railroad tracks and

 

      18        that -- and I saw the railroad track as a

 

      19        natural buffer for what was proposed for Jackson

 

      20        Square versus what exists in San Marco.  That's

 

      21        a natural buffer.  It's a natural buffer.

 

      22             In addition to that, you have FEC Park that

 

      23        also provides a buffer to this development from

 

      24        those folks who live west of the park.

 

      25             All the property -- business owners along

 

 

 

 

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       1        Philips Highway that I talked to are in support

 

       2        of this.  It's an effort to clean up a blighted

 

       3        area.  If we do nothing, if we condition this

 

       4        thing to death and the developer goes away, what

 

       5        do we have left?  Continued blight, crime,

 

       6        prostitution, you name it.

 

       7             It's a good development.  It's not

 

       8        subsidized housing as one person suggested at

 

       9        the council meeting.  It's market-rate housing.

 

      10        It's a mixed-use development that I think would

 

      11        be a catalyst for development in that area.

 

      12             I think -- I heard the concern -- the major

 

      13        concerns seemed to be the traffic on River Oaks

 

      14        Road.  If the developer is willing to put some

 

      15        traffic calming devices along that road, I think

 

      16        we will satisfy -- maybe not satisfy.  That's

 

      17        the wrong term.  But we would reduce the impacts

 

      18        of traffic on River Oaks Road.

 

      19             Most of the speakers tonight have said they

 

      20        support some type of development along there.  I

 

      21        don't want to see us condition this thing to

 

      22        death whereby it goes away.

 

      23             Traffic calming devices on River Oaks Road,

 

      24        if the organization supports that, I think will

 

      25        reduce -- substantially reduce the amount of

 

 

 

 

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       1        traffic from this development that uses that

 

       2        road.

 

       3             Additionally, there is -- I think it's

 

       4        Mitchell Place or Mitchell Road that will go

 

       5        north out of the development.  So for most of

 

       6        the people who live there, it makes all the

 

       7        sense to use Philips Highway or Mitchell

 

       8        Place -- Mitchell Street to go north to Atlantic

 

       9        to access the shops in San Marco.  It doesn't

 

      10        make sense to go through River Oaks Road.

 

      11             The traffic impact, according to our

 

      12        experts, the Planning Department, is very

 

      13        minimum on River Oaks Road.  Whether it's a

 

      14        traffic-oriented development or not, I think

 

      15        it's a good development and I think the density

 

      16        is being controlled by the planned unit

 

      17        development.  Without the planned unit

 

      18        development, as staff has pointed out, we can

 

      19        get a lot higher density development than what

 

      20        is being proposed here.

 

      21             I think it's a good development.  I

 

      22        appreciate the concern of the neighbors.

 

      23        There's no intent to diminish the quality of

 

      24        life that the people in San Marco enjoy today.

 

      25        I think with this development, it will enhance

 

 

 

 

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       1        the improvements along Philips Highway and do a

 

       2        great deal of help in that revitalization.

 

       3             I would ask the committee to support it

 

       4        with the amendments that were offered by

 

       5        Mr. Shad and those that you've already approved

 

       6        by the Planning Department.

 

       7             Thank you.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones, I have a

 

       9        question.  My meeting that I had with the

 

      10        applicant, he didn't want to close access to

 

      11        River Oaks Road, but he was willing to direct

 

      12        access so people could not turn out of this

 

      13        development -- turn right down River Oaks Road,

 

      14        but could turn in to the development.

 

      15             Now, is that what you meant by traffic

 

      16        calming, or are you talking about something else

 

      17        along the length of River Oaks Road?

 

      18             MR. JONES:  I was talking about traffic

 

      19        calming devices along River Oaks Road, whether

 

      20        it's --

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Speed humps, that sort of

 

      22        stuff?

 

      23             MR. JONES:  Speed bumps, speed humps.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      25             MR. JONES:  Those type of devices.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I was just trying to

 

       2        get some clarity.

 

       3             MR. JONES:  All right.  Thank you.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Shad.

 

       5             MR. SHAD:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       6             I've made it clear, both to the applicant

 

       7        and to the planning director recently, that I

 

       8        thought it was a big mistake that this has been

 

       9        spoken about as a TOD or a transit-oriented

 

      10        development.  It has really complicated this

 

      11        issue from the beginning.

 

      12             You know, I would encourage you to ignore

 

      13        the fact that this speaks of a future transit

 

      14        station here.  And, you know, in fact,

 

      15        Jacksonville, for a number of reasons, because

 

      16        of our, you know, large geographic footprints

 

      17        and our relatively low density, we just don't

 

      18        have -- and we probably won't for decades and

 

      19        decades and decades have any type of

 

      20        substantial, you know, really healthy mass

 

      21        transit, and to think that this development

 

      22        should be given reduced parking and increased

 

      23        density on that basis is a mistake.

 

      24             Now, this is an urban infill, mixed-used

 

      25        development and it gets some density and some

 

 

 

 

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       1        parking relief just on those aspects alone, and

 

       2        I would -- that's how it needs to be judged.

 

       3        But, gosh, it sure would be nice to go back and

 

       4        do this all over again without having any

 

       5        reference to this transit-oriented development.

 

       6        I don't think it -- particularly think it was

 

       7        done on purpose to confuse the issue, but I

 

       8        think it's hurt the developer, really.  I think

 

       9        it's created a lot of confusion and a lot of

 

      10        reasons to oppose this, and that was just a big

 

      11        mistake.  And, you know, hindsight is 20/20.

 

      12             But when we go forward and look at the

 

      13        conditions, and especially when it comes to

 

      14        going from the 30 units per acre up to the 900

 

      15        total units -- and the triggering event is going

 

      16        to be -- and you see that the Planning

 

      17        Department increased this language -- the

 

      18        triggering event is going to be having a transit

 

      19        station.

 

      20             Well, you know, what is that?  I mean, is

 

      21        it a bus stop?  Is it a -- you know, they put

 

      22        some more language in.  But before that language

 

      23        was in, the Planning Department put something in

 

      24        front of us and said, Okay.  We have these

 

      25        things that we triggered, 50 percent parking

 

 

 

 

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       1        reduction, density from 500 to 900 units with

 

       2        the inclusion of a transit station, which really

 

       3        is a glorified bus stop.  That's all it would

 

       4        be.

 

       5             And so basically you're saying, if you want

 

       6        to be -- if you're on a corridor and you want to

 

       7        have half the parking and double the density,

 

       8        put a bus stop in and call it a TOD.  That's

 

       9        really what we did here, and it was troubling,

 

      10        and I've shared that with the planning director.

 

      11             River Oaks Road access is going to be the

 

      12        important thing facing you this evening.  I

 

      13        would support the Planning Commission's

 

      14        recommendation.

 

      15             The phasing mix and -- you know, the

 

      16        residents just want to know that what is being

 

      17        spoken about is what's going to be built, and

 

      18        it's tough to get there by reading the written

 

      19        description and the site plan and in the

 

      20        report.  I mean, we can, you know, take

 

      21        someone's word for it, but, you know, we want to

 

      22        have it in writing.

 

      23             And the phasing schedule certainly could

 

      24        use some help, and I think -- I guess we're in

 

      25        the middle of the conditions I listed.  But when

 

 

 

 

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       1        we get to the requested language from the

 

       2        preservation society, I think that goes a little

 

       3        bit further towards providing that protection.

 

       4             And I do take exception to a couple of the

 

       5        committee members mentioning that this is not

 

       6        the time to be negotiating between one side or

 

       7        the other.  Well, that's exactly what we do.  I

 

       8        mean, when we're up here, we want to hear where

 

       9        they're at, we want to see how far they're

 

      10        apart, we want to hear their reasons for being

 

      11        where they're at.  And then we've got to make a

 

      12        decision on what's best for the city.

 

      13             So that's what we do here, and that's

 

      14        certainly why we're here.  And, you know, look

 

      15        forward to doing that over the next, you know,

 

      16        half hour or so.

 

      17             So I would -- if we could get through these

 

      18        seven conditions, and then I'd like to -- or be

 

      19        more appropriate for a committee member to

 

      20        discuss the San Marco conditions that weren't

 

      21        covered by that and discuss as a committee

 

      22        whether or not they make -- they make sense.

 

      23             All right.  Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, Mr. Shad, I guess I

 

      25        have two things.  It sounds like from the

 

 

 

 

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       1        applicant he agrees to these seven that you

 

       2        listed if these are the only seven he's got to

 

       3        deal with.

 

       4             If he's got to go over and above past his

 

       5        seven, he's saying he's not agreeing with them.

 

       6        And so that's where it seems like -- the

 

       7        quagmire we find ourselves getting stuck in.

 

       8             MR. SHAD:  If that's where we're at, that's

 

       9        where we're at.  But, you know, we've got more

 

      10        work to do, I guess, then.  And, you know, the

 

      11        preservation society has put together a good set

 

      12        of conditions that deserve consideration from

 

      13        this committee, I would think.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have nobody on the queue.

 

      15             Mr. Jones, one of the things that Mr. Shad

 

      16        said is that he would support actually closing

 

      17        access to River Road [sic].

 

      18             Now, you said something about putting road

 

      19        calming down on River Road.  What do you think

 

      20        about the Planning Commission's request to close

 

      21        access to River Road?

 

      22             I guess you can still go around the corner

 

      23        to River Road, but --

 

      24             MR. JOOST:  (Inaudible.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's correct.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Now, are you against that, Mr. Jones?

 

       2             MR. JONES:  Mr. Chairman, I supported the

 

       3        Planning Department's recommendation, which was

 

       4        to --

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, no, no.  This is

 

       6        Planning Commission.  The Planning Commission

 

       7        added that 13th.

 

       8             MR. JONES:  I know.  That's what I said.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I'm sorry.

 

      10             MR. JONES:  I support the Planning

 

      11        Department's recommendation, which does not

 

      12        include the one that the Planning Commission

 

      13        included.

 

      14             I think the calming they're agreeable on.

 

      15        I'm not trying to force anything, but I think

 

      16        that would be more effective in reducing the

 

      17        impact of the traffic because all one has to do

 

      18        is come out of that development and make a right

 

      19        turn and go down to the next light and make a

 

      20        right turn onto River Oaks Road.  So I don't

 

      21        think that necessarily diminishes the impact

 

      22        that -- if someone wanted to use that as a

 

      23        shortcut to get to San Marco, I don't think that

 

      24        would prohibit it.

 

      25             I think having those traffic calming

 

 

 

 

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       1        devices would be more effective in that process

 

       2        than actually closing the road, as the Planning

 

       3        Department has implicated.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Jones.

 

       5             Mr. Holt.

 

       6             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

       7             Just to get clarification on where we are.

 

       8        Are we, at this point, debating Mr. Shad's -- do

 

       9        we need someone from the committee to make a

 

      10        motion to accept those conditions that Mr. Shad

 

      11        just went over?

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Somebody on the committee

 

      13        needs to make a motion to accept, I guess it

 

      14        was, Mr. Shad's recommendations.  And I believe

 

      15        Mr. Jones said he was agreeable with what those

 

      16        seven -- not including the closing of the access

 

      17        to River Oaks.

 

      18             Now, you've got to remember the applicant

 

      19        says he's agreeable to those seven, just as long

 

      20        as it's limited to those seven.  So we can start

 

      21        off with those seven, which he's agreeable with,

 

      22        and then we can kind of talk it from there.

 

      23             Hold on a second.

 

      24             Ms. Eller.

 

      25             MS. ELLER:  Mr. Chairman, the applicant

 

 

 

 

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       1        also modified one of those seven conditions.

 

       2        It's condition 14 on your paper.  And the new

 

       3        condition as modified by the applicant would

 

       4        read that, "Residential development shall be

 

       5        limited to 30 units per gross acre of land."

 

       6        And then in Phase I, "shall contain a minimum of

 

       7        15,000 square feet of retail uses," and no

 

       8        changes to the end of the paragraph.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.  That's what's before

 

      10        us right now.

 

      11             If you'd like to make that motion.

 

      12             MR. HOLT:  Well, I'll make the motion for

 

      13        discussion that we -- the seven conditions that

 

      14        Mr. Shad proposed that are -- has already been

 

      15        agreed upon by the -- by both sides, and then we

 

      16        can move forward from there.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, I can't say on the

 

      18        record that both sides agreed upon it.  You

 

      19        heard Mr. Franklin say they agreed upon four of

 

      20        them, but it's the applicant that's got to agree

 

      21        upon it.

 

      22             MR. HOLT:  Okay.  Well, if we don't have

 

      23        any agreement on that, then withdraw that

 

      24        motion.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Mr. Jones.

 

       2             MR. JONES:  I think, one, you've moved the

 

       3        Planning Department's recommendation.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's correct.

 

       5             MR. JONES:  That's one amendment.

 

       6             It would be good if we could move these

 

       7        seven.  And then if you want to go item by item,

 

       8        then ask --

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Beyond the seven.

 

      10             MR. JONES:  Yeah, ask Mr. Franklin to

 

      11        address any additions to the three that he does

 

      12        not -- he says does not go far enough.  And

 

      13        then, I guess -- then the next posture would be

 

      14        to come back, if you want to, to the other

 

      15        conditions that Mr. Shad had for -- San Marco

 

      16        has presented.  That's not included in these

 

      17        seven, nor in the 12 that were already approved

 

      18        by the Planning Department.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  My suggestion would be for

 

      20        us to stop beating our heads against the wall

 

      21        and defer this thing, but I'll let the committee

 

      22        do what they wish.

 

      23             Mr. Clark.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      25             I think we've been here a few hours

 

 

 

 

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       1        already.  I think deferring it is just -- no,

 

       2        I'm not going to relive this thing two more

 

       3        weeks so we can spend another four or five hours

 

       4        doing this when we can do it tonight.

 

       5             I am more than willing to move all seven of

 

       6        these amendments under the auspice that clearly

 

       7        these guys met and discussed it.  I think -- I

 

       8        think it's unfair -- if the applicant is

 

       9        agreeable, I think it's unfair to the applicant

 

      10        if we -- if we go through these, do all this and

 

      11        the applicant says, well, now you've moved to

 

      12        point zero.  And now this is what I've come

 

      13        halfway to in their mind.  And now we're going

 

      14        to say, Okay.  Well, here's our starting point

 

      15        now.

 

      16             And so I am more than willing to offer up

 

      17        these amendments and move the bill and let's

 

      18        keep going.  If we want to go through one by one

 

      19        and start making everything expediently more

 

      20        difficult, I mean, we can do that.  I'm not

 

      21        going to second a single one of those motions,

 

      22        but I am more than willing to offer -- I'll

 

      23        offer the amendment.

 

      24             I move the seven conditions.  I'll move

 

      25        that amendment.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and

 

       3        seconded, the Shad amendments.

 

       4             Any other discussion on the amendments?

 

       5             MR. JOOST:  (Indicating.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Joost, are you on the

 

       7        amendments?

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  Yes, I am.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Joost.

 

      10             MR. JOOST:  Just a technical question to

 

      11        legal on the part -- because I think in two

 

      12        dimensions instead of three, where it says "no

 

      13        development greater than 53 feet," should it say

 

      14        53 feet in height so you're thinking vertical?

 

      15             Because the first time I read it, where it

 

      16        said, "No development greater than 53 feet shall

 

      17        be permitted within 100 feet of the westerly

 

      18        boundary," it made no sense to me.

 

      19             MS. ELLER:  Confirmed.

 

      20             MR. JOOST:  So we should say -- put that

 

      21        clarification in there.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Holt.

 

      23             MR. HOLT:  If we're in a proper posture,

 

      24        I'd also like to add an amendment to the

 

      25        amendment to require traffic control devices,

 

 

 

 

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       1        speed humps along River Oaks.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

       3             MR. HOLT:  Get a second on that?

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  Is it already in the written --

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Planning Department, is that

 

       6        already in the written description?

 

       7             MR. KELLY:  The -- no, the traffic calming

 

       8        is not.  It is something we would agree with,

 

       9        but we wouldn't want to be necessarily specific

 

      10        to speed humps.  I know emergency services has

 

      11        issues sometimes with speed humps and there are

 

      12        other traffic calming alternatives.

 

      13             So we'd like to leave that open to the

 

      14        Planning and Development Department and

 

      15        Development Services Division review and

 

      16        approval.

 

      17             MR. HOLT:  I'm fine with that.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that a friendly

 

      19        amendment?

 

      20             MR. CLARK:  I'll second that amendment.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones?

 

      22             MR. JONES:  Yes.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Shad?

 

      24             MR. SHAD:  (Indicating.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We got thumbs up

 

 

 

 

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       1        everywhere.

 

       2             I have nothing else in my queue, so we are

 

       3        on the Shad amendment, slightly modified, to

 

       4        make sure that we have traffic calming on

 

       5        River Oaks Road, subject to the review or

 

       6        approval of the Planning Department.

 

       7             Mr. Harden, are you in agreeable with those

 

       8        seven amendments?

 

       9             MR. HARDEN:  Seven, not eight, with the

 

      10        traffic calming -- yes, taking out the words

 

      11        "within the phase," which I think -- yes, I am

 

      12        agreeable to all those.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Everybody is thumbs

 

      14        up.

 

      15             Everybody in favor signify by saying aye.

 

      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, we've added

 

      20        the Shad amendment.  So we will consolidate all

 

      21        of those.

 

      22             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      23             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller.

 

      25             MS. ELLER:  The final item would be that

 

 

 

 

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       1        the committee's direction -- that the amendment

 

       2        would serve as the final order since it was a

 

       3        quasi-judicial public hearing, if that's -- if

 

       4        you'll consider that.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  That sounds good to me.

 

       6        Okay.

 

       7             MS. ELLER:  Okay.  And you-all approved

 

       8        that?

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Shad.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  Mr. Franklin, can you come on

 

      11        up.

 

      12             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

      13             MR. SHAD:  Do you have the list of the

 

      14        latest preservation society recommendations?

 

      15             MR. FRANKLIN:  I do.

 

      16             MR. SHAD:  Great.

 

      17             On number 4, on phasing, as I read the one

 

      18        we just passed, the 1815 -- just a second.  That

 

      19        last sentence, residential -- the second to last

 

      20        sentence, "Residential development shall not

 

      21        exceed 600 residential units unless a rapid

 

      22        transit station" -- well, the way we wrote it

 

      23        it's actually five hundred and -- the way it

 

      24        currently reads it's limited to 510, right?

 

      25        Thirty times 17?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. FRANKLIN:  Well, let me just say this

 

       2        about the phasing:  Our understanding about the

 

       3        condition, the seven and the way we put it here

 

       4        was we intended it to be within that phase.  We

 

       5        intended the 30 gross acres to be 300

 

       6        residential units, not to have the 600-unit

 

       7        apartment in Phase I, based on their own site

 

       8        plan.  It shows 281 units in there that was

 

       9        approved for concurrency.

 

      10             So that was, again, fitting -- going with

 

      11        their overall plan.  So that was it.  And that's

 

      12        where this came from, our language here.

 

      13             The way that Mr. Harden has amended it to

 

      14        take out the word "within the phase," and the

 

      15        phase acreage of less than approximately half of

 

      16        17.1, yes, they could get approximately 510

 

      17        residential units in that.  So that's the

 

      18        difference between the two.

 

      19             MR. SHAD:  Okay.  Planning Department, if

 

      20        the site plan indicates about 281 units in

 

      21        Phase I and there's -- it's silent to it, and

 

      22        how we've written it out now, they could have

 

      23        30 per gross acreage of 510, how would you --

 

      24        when the applicant comes in to build, how would

 

      25        you clarify -- rectify that with the note that

 

 

 

 

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       1        we just said the developer shall substantially

 

       2        comply with the revised site plan?  What would

 

       3        you think?  Could they build up to 281, or could

 

       4        they build up to 510 in Phase I?

 

       5             MR. KELLY:  Our position would be that the

 

       6        30 dwelling units an acre would be provided as a

 

       7        gross density up until that mass transit station

 

       8        is provided for, so that would be essentially

 

       9        the 510 units.

 

      10             If in Phase I the 280 -- our fear is in

 

      11        what Mr. Franklin said, I think, earlier, that

 

      12        he was fine with 300 units in Phase I.  But if

 

      13        you actually do the 300 units in Phase I, you're

 

      14        over the 30 units an acre.  And so requiring it

 

      15        within the phase is problematic because it

 

      16        requires, then, 240 units in that --

 

      17             MR. SHAD:  I guess what I'm getting at, the

 

      18        site plan does kind of indicate it's going to be

 

      19        closer to 300 than 500, and I'm just curious

 

      20        what's going to be built on Phase I.  Is it

 

      21        going to be 300 or is it going to be 500, and do

 

      22        we have any control over that?

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  Well, no, we don't.

 

      24             But essentially -- the 300 versus the 500,

 

      25        I think -- you know, even 500 would be

 

 

 

 

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       1        appropriate up for a site that size, 17 acres in

 

       2        that area, in the neighborhood --

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  Yeah, Phase I is only, you know,

 

       4        eight acres or about.

 

       5             MR. KELLY:  Correct.

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  Mr. Harden, can I ask you a

 

       7        question?

 

       8             Is there a number between 300 and 500 --

 

       9        closer to 300 -- y'all would be agreeable to for

 

      10        Phase I?  Whether it's 400 --

 

      11             MR. HARDEN:  Let me -- I think -- and Tim

 

      12        will agree with this, I think.  He got that

 

      13        number from phasing off the CCAS, not the site

 

      14        plan.

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  Okay.

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  The site plan doesn't limit it

 

      17        to 300 units.

 

      18             There's three phases in the CCAS, which was

 

      19        300, 300, and 300.  We -- the limit of 300 per

 

      20        gross acre, which is 510 units, was the Planning

 

      21        Department's idea.  That came off what we

 

      22        originally wanted to do.

 

      23             If you use your -- because they call it the

 

      24        Shad amendment, I'm going to give you credit for

 

      25        it.  It says we can build -- by just doing the

 

 

 

 

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       1        math -- 510 units, but there has to be 15,000

 

       2        square feet of retail.

 

       3             And then before we can build any more

 

       4        units, there has been to be 50,000 square feet

 

       5        of retail.  So it forces the phasing if you just

 

       6        use the amendment that you've already -- that

 

       7        you've already approved.

 

       8             It -- Councilman Shad, it's -- it may not

 

       9        be 510 units.  The question is, what's the

 

      10        market going to be.  And you want to build to

 

      11        the market, and we're trying to stay within the

 

      12        suggestion of the Planning Department.  So if I

 

      13        knew the answer, I -- and I could accommodate

 

      14        you with a number, I would be happy to do it,

 

      15        but we've already taken the cap --

 

      16             We wanted the 60 units.  The Planning

 

      17        Department said, no, use 30 units until you

 

      18        do -- whatever you want to call it -- bus

 

      19        station, and that's where we are.

 

      20             I just don't know the answer.  I don't know

 

      21        an answer other than what the Planning

 

      22        Department has already told us, and we would

 

      23        like to live with that.

 

      24             MR. SHAD:  All right.  And to the

 

      25        committee, you know, that's -- I envisioned this

 

 

 

 

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       1        project being two phases and that at some future

 

       2        days, aspirationally, it would be -- there would

 

       3        be a transit station there and Jacksonville

 

       4        would have a mass transit system, and then at

 

       5        that point, they go to 900.

 

       6             Well, it turns out, they really just want

 

       7        to go to pretty much 900 right away and then

 

       8        have a glorified bus stop.  And that's just what

 

       9        I'm struggling with and which I think the

 

      10        commission should struggle with as well, that,

 

      11        you know, this is going to be -- they're going

 

      12        to go right up to 900 units with a bus -- a

 

      13        fancy bus stop, and I don't know that that's

 

      14        really what they had in mind with the TOD

 

      15        section that we put into our zoning code

 

      16        recently.

 

      17             MR. HARDEN:  Councilman Shad, I will agree

 

      18        with -- and, you know, we don't -- I'm not

 

      19        trying to debate you.  A glorified bus stop I

 

      20        don't think is fair if you look at the site

 

      21        plan.

 

      22             But, yes, the TOD is confusing to

 

      23        everybody.  And 60 units an acre is what's

 

      24        allowed without a TOD.  The TOD language,

 

      25        confusing as it is, was an attempt by the

 

 

 

 

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       1        Planning Department to break the ice on mass

 

       2        transit in the area.

 

       3             If they had a railroad there, obviously it

 

       4        would be helpful.  We're -- as I said in my

 

       5        original presentation, we're at -- kind of at

 

       6        the mercy of the JTA.  If they'll come -- we're

 

       7        going to do what we can do on our site, as you

 

       8        see in the site plan that the Planning

 

       9        Department did.  If they would do the BRT

 

      10        tomorrow, the light rail tomorrow, we're buying

 

      11        into it.  We're going as far as we can go

 

      12        without having the JTA do what they're going to

 

      13        do.

 

      14             So I agree -- I guess the point being is

 

      15        I agree that the TOD is a misunderstanding, but

 

      16        even if they don't put that language in there, I

 

      17        think they're going to cap us at the 60.

 

      18             MR. SHAD:  No, I would just say to the

 

      19        committee that really this -- the community

 

      20        envisioned the first phase to be in the 300

 

      21        range, and it turns out it's 510.  And I've got

 

      22        to admit, that's what I thought it was too for a

 

      23        while.

 

      24             And I didn't realize how easy it was going

 

      25        to be to get to 900 from 510.  I thought there

 

 

 

 

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       1        was going to have to be this vibrant, active,

 

       2        highly used transit station, and it's not.  It's

 

       3        going to be -- it's going to be a, really, bus

 

       4        stop, a really nice one, but it's still going to

 

       5        be a bus stop, and we're taking them up --

 

       6             We haven't even talked about the parking.

 

       7        You know what?  On the parking, people aren't

 

       8        going to park on River Oaks Road.  They're not

 

       9        going to park, you know, six blocks away.  You

 

      10        know, they're going to build the parking they

 

      11        need for the amenities they have there and the

 

      12        build-outs.

 

      13             But the phasing -- there's two issues here,

 

      14        River Oaks access and the phasing and the

 

      15        build-out and ensuring the community there's

 

      16        going to be a mixed-use development like the

 

      17        pretty pictures on the handout.  And somehow

 

      18        we've got to put that in verbiage, and that's

 

      19        what, you know, we've been struggling with for a

 

      20        while.

 

      21             I knew that the great minds of this

 

      22        committee could probably come up with something.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do you have any suggestions

 

      24        other than those seven amendments that you had,

 

      25        Mr. Shad?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. SHAD:  No.  I came in with my seven.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.

 

       3             MR. JONES:  No, I just --

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  You don't have to talk.  I

 

       5        know you're not on my queue, so I have to, from

 

       6        time to time, look your way.

 

       7             MR. JONES:  No, I wasn't aware of the

 

       8        concern there with the phasing, so I don't -- I

 

       9        haven't given it any thought.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Joost.

 

      11             MR. JOOST:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      12             I'd like to go and ask some questions --

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have the mic.

 

      14             MR. JOOST:  -- to Mr. Kelly there

 

      15        concerning the traffic on River Oaks Road and

 

      16        how that's all calculated.

 

      17             Yeah, as amended.

 

      18             MR. WEBB:  We're on the bill as amended.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, we're still amending.

 

      20        We haven't moved the bill as amended yet.  We've

 

      21        made two amendments to the bill thus far.

 

      22             MR. JOOST:  All right.  Well, I'm just

 

      23        going to plow ahead.

 

      24             Is there substantial competent evidence to

 

      25        make sure we are in compliance with the PUD?

 

 

 

 

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       1             And specifically I heard concurrency issues

 

       2        about this 9J-5.  Are the trips -- my question

 

       3        is, are the trips being calculated accurately?

 

       4        And specifically, what is the status of River

 

       5        Oaks?  Because I use that road two, three times

 

       6        a week, and basically half of it is on an

 

       7        industrial side and half of it is residential.

 

       8             So what is the exact classification of

 

       9        River Oaks and how does classification of these

 

      10        roads impact whether it's only at 6 percent

 

      11        capacity, or if it was classified as

 

      12        residential, which clearly half of it is, how

 

      13        does that impact current capacity?

 

      14             MR. KELLY:  First of all, I will say that

 

      15        the trip analysis is based on the CCAS

 

      16        application that was submitted and the mix of

 

      17        uses that are proposed with the 900 single- --

 

      18        or multifamily dwelling units.

 

      19             MR. JOOST:  I got how the trips are

 

      20        calculated.  My question goes to, what is the

 

      21        road classified as?  Okay?

 

      22             MR. KELLY:  Well, I'm getting to your first

 

      23        question on the 9J-5 and that.

 

      24             The mixture of these uses combined as -- in

 

      25        this application, fall far underneath the DRI

 

 

 

 

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       1        threshold.  So that automatically, in my view

 

       2        and the department's view, does not -- or gets

 

       3        thrown out the window.  It's not -- it's not

 

       4        relevant, so I will go to the actual impacts on

 

       5        River Oaks Road, which right now is classified

 

       6        as a local roadway.

 

       7             Now, there was discussion at Planning

 

       8        Commission between the Development Services

 

       9        Division and the Department -- both are under

 

      10        the Department, but the Current Planning

 

      11        Division and Development Services Division --

 

      12        about really what constitutes a local road

 

      13        versus a collector road.

 

      14             And a collector road, by definition, is

 

      15        designed to serve, to connect to two arterial or

 

      16        minor arterial roadways to break that hierarchy

 

      17        out.  And, in this instance, River Oaks Road is

 

      18        signalized at both ends of the road.

 

      19             So in the view of the Development Services

 

      20        Division, their view was that River Oaks is a

 

      21        collector roadway.  But when you go out there on

 

      22        the ground, the right-of-way width is a 60-foot

 

      23        right-of-way dimension, the pavement width is

 

      24        about 24 feet.  This is not designed, nor is it

 

      25        classified under the functional highway

 

 

 

 

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       1        classification as a collector roadway.

 

       2             The area between the industrial areas and

 

       3        the properties east of the railroad tracks,

 

       4        maybe that is a collector or functions as a

 

       5        collector due to the traffic and the volumes

 

       6        that are going and accessing out on Philips

 

       7        Highway, but our concern --

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  So it's -- and when you were

 

       9        calculating the trip usage and where Mr. Harden

 

      10        is asserting it's only at, like, 6 percent

 

      11        usage, was that as a local roadway capacity or

 

      12        as a collector road capacity?

 

      13             MR. KELLY:  I can't speak to -- we haven't

 

      14        done any traffic analysis on River Oaks Road at

 

      15        this point, so I don't where those numbers are

 

      16        actually coming from.  I think they've done some

 

      17        independent traffic counts and determined

 

      18        capacity by putting out traffic count meters.

 

      19             What I will say --

 

      20             MR. JOOST:  Well, what I'm saying -- what

 

      21        I'm suggesting is, if it's determined to be a

 

      22        collector road, then obviously the traffic

 

      23        capacity would be higher than a local roadway;

 

      24        is that true or not?

 

      25             MR. KELLY:  Correct.  The carrying

 

 

 

 

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       1        capacity, right, would be --

 

       2             MR. JOOST:  So determining what that road

 

       3        is classified goes to the heart of Mr. Harden's

 

       4        argument as to whether it's at 6 percent

 

       5        capacity or what the residents are trying to

 

       6        put, in so many words, that the actual capacity

 

       7        is much closer to 100 percent than it is

 

       8        6 percent.

 

       9             It depends on what kind of classification

 

      10        we're using here, and that's why I'm interested

 

      11        to know whether you're saying it's a local

 

      12        roadway or collector road when calculating these

 

      13        capacities.

 

      14             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

      15             The City -- the City does not regularly

 

      16        test the local roadways.  We have to adopt in

 

      17        our comp plan and designate the roadway to be a

 

      18        collector roadway to be put into the traffic

 

      19        counts and the testing for the roadway link

 

      20        status report.

 

      21             So this section, this River Oaks section is

 

      22        not part of that.  It's classified as a local

 

      23        road.  The traffic impacts -- and the real issue

 

      24        is the development impacts on River Oaks Road,

 

      25        and --

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. JOOST:  So it's not -- it's not

 

       2        classified as a collector road and, therefore,

 

       3        the 6 percent that was calculated is based on

 

       4        local roadway capacity?

 

       5             MR. KELLY:  That, I don't know.

 

       6             Again, those numbers or that 6 percent or

 

       7        that functioning capacity of a local roadway is

 

       8        all proposed by the applicant.

 

       9             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (Inaudible.)

 

      10             MR. KELLY:  I'm clarifying -- let me

 

      11        clarify, please, between the CCAS application

 

      12        and the analysis that our --

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  Doesn't somebody verify the

 

      14        numbers?  I mean --

 

      15             MR. KELLY:  It's two different things.  All

 

      16        right?  Let me explain.

 

      17             The study that was done -- and specifically

 

      18        this is dated October 3rd.  This is a traffic

 

      19        analysis that we had our traffic people do using

 

      20        ITE, using the distribution models and the

 

      21        percentages of traffic that would actually come

 

      22        out onto this roadway.

 

      23             When we opened up the access to the north

 

      24        side, we had to recalculate how that

 

      25        distribution model went.  And what that did was

 

 

 

 

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       1        alleviate, again, a lot of the pressure and the

 

       2        additional traffic that otherwise would have

 

       3        gone down River Oaks because we opened up

 

       4        Mitchell and Mark, and so that number got

 

       5        reduced from the overall development.

 

       6             And so from -- in terms of the capacity, it

 

       7        went down to -- with full access, it was about

 

       8        6.72 percent of the distribution with a total

 

       9        projected p.m. peak-hour trips of 56.

 

      10             Now, the distribution of those 56 trips

 

      11        impacting on River Oaks, half are going to turn

 

      12        left, half are going to turn right.  So 29 were

 

      13        going to turn right.  And this is with the full

 

      14        access, and that's the p.m. peak hour.

 

      15             And that's all I was trying to explain,

 

      16        that their measurements and their own

 

      17        calculations of what they measured on any given

 

      18        day, at any time, that -- you know, we haven't

 

      19        used that as any part of our evaluation.

 

      20             MR. JOOST:  Okay.  Based on your

 

      21        evaluation, then, at what capacity is the road

 

      22        today?

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  Again, because the road is

 

      24        classified as a local roadway, we do not measure

 

      25        and do traffic counts on the local roadways

 

 

 

 

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       1        within the city.

 

       2             MR. JOOST:  I mean, wouldn't that be

 

       3        germane to the decision we're making tonight?

 

       4             MR. KELLY:  As a condition of approval,

 

       5        there's a condition for a traffic study in the

 

       6        Development Services Division memorandum with

 

       7        regards to the operational characteristic for

 

       8        River Oaks Road, for -- and it's in the

 

       9        memorandum.  So I think we're -- we are

 

      10        comfortable, we feel that we've got that issue

 

      11        covered.

 

      12             In addition, we've done, you know, the

 

      13        distribution analysis with three different types

 

      14        of controlled access, either no access,

 

      15        controlled access, or full access, and the net

 

      16        difference between the full access and the no

 

      17        access is ten p.m. peak-hour trips.

 

      18             MR. JOOST:  One last question.

 

      19             What would be the effect or the impact -- I

 

      20        mean, it seems like you're putting the cart

 

      21        before the horse a little bit here, approving

 

      22        the project and then doing the traffic study.

 

      23             What would be the consequence of approving

 

      24        this project and then later on if the traffic

 

      25        study is conducted and it shows a much greater

 

 

 

 

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       1        variance than what we predicted?

 

       2             MR. KELLY:  Well, based on the traffic

 

       3        study, the operational characteristics then

 

       4        would basically go -- would have to be applied

 

       5        in the design and the ten-set review and the

 

       6        civil plan review, that -- you know, that queue

 

       7        storage, maybe that left-turn lane or that

 

       8        right-turn decel lane has to be extended.  Maybe

 

       9        it needs to be signalized at that access point,

 

      10        maybe there's other improvements that will need

 

      11        to be made within the area.

 

      12             I can read the condition within the

 

      13        memorandum from the traffic engineer.  It says

 

      14        to "provide a traffic impact study prior to

 

      15        verification of substantial compliance for

 

      16        River Oaks Road and Mitchell Place.  The

 

      17        developer is responsible for all costs

 

      18        associated with the study and any off-site

 

      19        roadway improvements warranted by the study."

 

      20             That -- that's a level of comfort that we

 

      21        have.  Again, this is the zoning.  So when they

 

      22        get into the full engineered planning and design

 

      23        of this, then it becomes more relevant, and then

 

      24        there's standards that they need to apply to --

 

      25             MR. JOOST:  Okay.  And one last question.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Explain to me your reasoning why Summerall

 

       2        should not be closed.

 

       3             MR. KELLY:  My reason is simple.  Because,

 

       4        when you look at this, the difference between

 

       5        full access on River Oaks and no access from

 

       6        River Oaks -- p.m. peak-hour trips with no

 

       7        access, you're at 19; with full access, you're

 

       8        at 29.

 

       9             So the argument is, okay.  So you close

 

      10        that access point to River Oaks.  Now, what have

 

      11        you done for everybody in San Marco that's

 

      12        coming eastbound, that wants to go to this

 

      13        commercial development or visit a friend who

 

      14        lives in the multifamily?  You force them out

 

      15        onto Philips Highway.

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  There would be a light right

 

      17        there, right behind the gas station.

 

      18             MR. KELLY:  You force them onto Philips

 

      19        Highway, instead of being able to enter the

 

      20        development, and then you move them up to

 

      21        another signalized intersection to make a left

 

      22        turn into the development.

 

      23             It's unnecessary movement.  Connectivity is

 

      24        key, and it's a fundamental philosophy in

 

      25        planning.  There's nobody -- with the conditions

 

 

 

 

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       1        of the traffic calming, it's going to be

 

       2        discouraging enough to drive through River Oaks

 

       3        to get to San Marco if that's what -- you know,

 

       4        and based on the model, that's not a big number

 

       5        anyway.

 

       6             But to prevent people from San Marco that

 

       7        want to go to this development and force them

 

       8        onto Philips Highway, to me, is not appropriate.

 

       9             MR. JOOST:  Because my only comment with

 

      10        that is -- that argument cuts both ways.

 

      11        There's so few trips, what's the impact of

 

      12        closing it?  You're saying it's such few trips,

 

      13        it's not that big of an impact on River Oaks.

 

      14        And if it makes the residents happy -- so you

 

      15        have to make two extra turns for 29 people that

 

      16        day.

 

      17             MR. KELLY:  It's not for the people that

 

      18        are exiting or leaving that development.

 

      19        It's -- again, it's for people that are being

 

      20        drawn to that development from San Marco and

 

      21        from surrounding areas.

 

      22             So forcing unnecessary turning movements

 

      23        when you can access --

 

      24             MR. JOOST:  But isn't -- you know, when you

 

      25        put up traffic calming devices, say a three-way

 

 

 

 

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       1        stop or speed bumps, isn't that the same thing,

 

       2        forcing unnecessary movement?

 

       3             MR. KELLY:  No, that is not an unnecessary

 

       4        movement.  Traffic calming is completely --

 

       5             MR. JOOST:  I don't -- personally, I don't

 

       6        like to slow down.  I like to get from point A

 

       7        to point B as fast as possible.

 

       8             MR. KELLY:  Well, I mean, from the

 

       9        testimony I heard tonight, I think people want

 

      10        people in that neighborhood to slow down, so I

 

      11        think they would appreciate the traffic calming.

 

      12             MR. JOOST:  Which is causing unnecessary

 

      13        movement for me.  It's the same idea.  I'm just

 

      14        asking.

 

      15             Okay.  That concludes my questions.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a quick question, and

 

      17        I just want this to go on the record because

 

      18        several people have asked the question.  So this

 

      19        way, you can just kind of explain it to them.

 

      20             People have asked the question about school

 

      21        concurrency.  Where along the process does

 

      22        school concurrency get added to this?  So you

 

      23        can just explain to them why --

 

      24             MR. KELLY:  To my understanding -- well, I

 

      25        mean, concurrency aside -- and I think

 

 

 

 

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       1        Mr. Harden had spoken at Planning Commission and

 

       2        indicated that this is not within the -- I guess

 

       3        the Hendricks Elementary.

 

       4             But school concurrency -- this is tied to

 

       5        their CCAS application, which is -- which is

 

       6        currently valid, and it's my understanding that

 

       7        now, that they would -- were they reviewed

 

       8        for -- and I'll just have to defer to the

 

       9        director on this.

 

      10             MR. THOBURN:  I'm not familiar with the

 

      11        specific review.  What I can tell you is that

 

      12        the way the school concurrency is -- is set up

 

      13        is that you're tested by a concurrency service

 

      14        area.  You're not tested by individual schools.

 

      15        And, in addition to that, the test -- the way

 

      16        the system is set up, it allows full capacity

 

      17        from adjacent districts.

 

      18             So the notion that the school may be at

 

      19        capacity doesn't mean that you're necessarily

 

      20        going to fail school concurrency.  So they're

 

      21        tested within the service area, and then the

 

      22        system as a whole.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, I just want for the

 

      24        audience to know -- at what point are they

 

      25        tested for concurrency?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. ELLER:  I believe Mr. Harden has filed

 

       2        a CCAS application for the nonresidential

 

       3        component.  When the residential component comes

 

       4        in line, he'll have to comply with that.

 

       5             And the residential testing for school

 

       6        concurrency goes to the school board.  And just

 

       7        like with transportation concurrency, there is

 

       8        the option to do a fair share if there's no

 

       9        capacity.  But as the planning director

 

      10        mentioned, our current system for school

 

      11        concurrency testing includes the ability to pull

 

      12        capacity from adjacent concurrency service

 

      13        areas.

 

      14             So, at this point, because we do have areas

 

      15        within our city that have a lot of open seats

 

      16        versus areas that are overcrowded, I just don't

 

      17        see, from the information and data that I've

 

      18        reviewed, that -- that there wouldn't be a way

 

      19        within the current system for him to either pay

 

      20        and go or to have it evaluated and tested using

 

      21        the adjacent concurrency service area.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  I didn't mean to -- I didn't

 

      23        mean to make it seem like this was going to

 

      24        cause concurrency problems.  I just want for the

 

      25        people that asked the question and talked about

 

 

 

 

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       1        it to know.

 

       2             MS. ELLER:  I think Mr. Harden can attest

 

       3        to where he is in that application process.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, that's all right.

 

       5             Mr. Webb.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       7             I'm intrigued by Mr. Joost's line of

 

       8        questioning with regard to the access onto

 

       9        River Oaks from the proposed project, and I'd

 

      10        like to ask a question of the district council

 

      11        representative.

 

      12             What would be your position -- I know you

 

      13        talked about traffic calming devices.  Given the

 

      14        de minimis impact or the small number of trips

 

      15        that we're talking about, what would be your

 

      16        position with regard to an amendment to the

 

      17        fact -- cut off the access for Summerall from

 

      18        the project?

 

      19             I don't want to put you on the spot, but --

 

      20             MR. JONES:  No.  You put me on the spot.

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  -- but I am.

 

      22             MR. JONES:  Again -- Mr. Webb, again, as I

 

      23        stated earlier, I supported the Planning

 

      24        Department's recommendation and their reasoning

 

      25        for maintaining an access.  I think there was

 

 

 

 

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       1        some safety issues that we talked about having

 

       2        access to the complex.  If something happened on

 

       3        Philips Highway, you know, there's some safety

 

       4        issues there too.  And the impacts are minimum.

 

       5             And then with the traffic calming devices,

 

       6        you know, most people aren't going to drive that

 

       7        way, and hopefully Mr. Joost will slow down now

 

       8        when he goes down River Oaks Road.

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  We don't want Mr. Joost to be

 

      10        inconvenienced.

 

      11             All right.  Again, I mean, the safety issue

 

      12        is a valid consideration.  I just wanted to ask

 

      13        the question again.  I apologize.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Redman or Mr. Shad.

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  Thanks.

 

      16             Mr. Harden, do you have a -- can you come

 

      17        up with a copy of the latest San Marco

 

      18        conditions?

 

      19             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      20             MR. SHAD:  Number 9 and 10.  I assume --

 

      21             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Shad, I want to make sure

 

      22        we're reading off -- it's the one that's one

 

      23        through ten?

 

      24             MR. SHAD:  Correct.

 

      25             MR. HARDEN:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. SHAD:  Can you agree to number 9?

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  (Peruses document.)

 

       3             I can, but that's already covered in --

 

       4             MR. SHAD:  I know, but it's a little bit

 

       5        clearer here.

 

       6             MR. HARDEN:  The written description -- in

 

       7        the written description, we have that 30-foot

 

       8        right-of-way.

 

       9             Yes, I'm agreeable to that.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  You can.  Okay.

 

      11             Can you agree to number 10 by chance, do

 

      12        you think?

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  There is nuances between

 

      14        number 10 and the revised 6.  We are agreeable

 

      15        to the revised 6.  It covers the same issues as

 

      16        here.

 

      17             We prefer the Planning Department's

 

      18        language as opposed to 10.  We're agreeable to

 

      19        that concept and we believe it's covered in

 

      20        number 6 of the Planning Department's --

 

      21             MR. SHAD:  But you can agree to 9.  Okay.

 

      22             The Planning --

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  You know, Mr. Chair, while

 

      24        we're standing here, number 6 is the same as one

 

      25        of yours.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. SHAD:  Six is for good.  No, I

 

       2        understand.  I got that.

 

       3             MR. HARDEN:  Number 7 is the same as one of

 

       4        yours.

 

       5             Most --

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  I got it, Mr. Harden.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.  I'm sorry.

 

       8             MR. SHAD:  We're good.  We're good.

 

       9             MR. HARDEN:  I just wanted to point that

 

      10        out.

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  Sean, could you speak to number

 

      12        10?  What is the -- since the Planning

 

      13        Department has determined this is a TOD

 

      14        development and we've plastered it all over the

 

      15        reports, what -- how are they going to comply

 

      16        with Part 14?  What is -- talk to me about how

 

      17        the -- what is in the report that's going to

 

      18        hold them to Part 14?

 

      19             MR. KELLY:  Okay.  Well, Part 14 is

 

      20        essentially the transit-oriented development

 

      21        legislation that was approved last year.  One

 

      22        thing with that would essentially require the

 

      23        site plan to be brought back and approved before

 

      24        City Council.  There's processes under Part 14

 

      25        that would have to be governed -- John is giving

 

 

 

 

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       1        me a copy of this.

 

       2             It's 2007-587.  But there's a number of,

 

       3        again, criteria that are similar to the zoning,

 

       4        but they would have to be specifically adopted

 

       5        pursuant to a council action again.

 

       6             Additionally, the -- I mean, it

 

       7        fundamentally is going to comply with the

 

       8        general standards and we will evaluate the

 

       9        streetscaping and the furniture and those

 

      10        elements and the design elements as part of the

 

      11        PUD verification package.

 

      12             Initially, this was all kind of taken right

 

      13        out from the downtown streetscape standards and

 

      14        incorporated into this, but I think the process

 

      15        and some of the restrictions, potentially, on

 

      16        some of the uses would be problematic.

 

      17             MR. SHAD:  Can you put something to the

 

      18        language of -- and I know -- and forgive us, but

 

      19        condition 6 was just changed today.  So could

 

      20        you put something to the effect that we want

 

      21        to -- the goal is to substantially comply with

 

      22        Part 14?

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  That is our intent to.

 

      24             But, I mean, again, we didn't want to

 

      25        designate it a TOD.  I think we do want to get,

 

 

 

 

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       1        you know, the --

 

       2             MR. SHAD:  It is designated a TOD in the

 

       3        report.

 

       4             Mr. Harden, could you put something to

 

       5        substantially comply with Part 14 in that

 

       6        revised condition 6?

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.  Subject to the review

 

       8        and approval of the Planning Department and the

 

       9        City Council.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  Absolutely.  Okay.

 

      11             So to my committee members, I think if we

 

      12        could move -- add number 9; and then number 10

 

      13        would just be revising condition 6; revise

 

      14        condition 6, amended to add one line saying to

 

      15        substantially comply -- the PUD should

 

      16        substantially comply with Part 14, subject to

 

      17        approval and review of the planning director.

 

      18             MR. WEBB:  So moved.

 

      19             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

      20             MR. SHAD:  Vote it out, Mr. Chairman.

 

      21             Discussion?

 

      22             All in favor?

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  We are -- we are still

 

      24        adding amendments, but --

 

      25             MR. SHAD:  Okay.  Got it.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  Would you

 

       2        restate that?  I was drawing.

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  It was number 9 in totality, and

 

       4        then number 10, which is going to be revised

 

       5        condition 6 at the end of it, period.  The PUD

 

       6        should substantially comply with Part 14 of the

 

       7        zoning code --

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well --

 

       9             MR. SHAD:  -- subject to approval and

 

      10        review of the planning director.

 

      11             MR. HARDEN:  Not the PUD.  The facility

 

      12        you're talking about, yeah.

 

      13             Do you want to --

 

      14             MR. SHAD:  The facility, right, yeah.

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  May I suggest some language?

 

      16             MR. SHAD:  The station, the transit

 

      17        station.

 

      18             MR. HARDEN:  Right.  The -- well --

 

      19             MR. SHAD:  But there are conditions --

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  Let's call it a facility.

 

      21             MR. SHAD:  Facility, right.

 

      22             MR. HARDEN:  Just add a sentence on to 6,

 

      23        "The facility shall substantially comply with

 

      24        the provisions of Part 14 of the zoning code,

 

      25        subject to the review and approval of the

 

 

 

 

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       1        Planning and Development Department."

 

       2             MR. SHAD:  Great.

 

       3             MR. WEBB:  So moved.

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and

 

       6        seconded.

 

       7             Mr. Harden, are you fine with that?

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  I am.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  Okay.  All that leaves -- you

 

      11        know, if you go through the 10 recommendations,

 

      12        number 1 has been handled, number 2 is in

 

      13        dispute, number 3 was done.  Instead of 45, it

 

      14        was 53.  Instead of 125, it was 100.  You know,

 

      15        kind of a compromise there.

 

      16             Number 4 there's a dispute.  Number 5, you

 

      17        know, it's the parking for me.  They need, you

 

      18        know -- I don't -- I'm here protecting

 

      19        River Oaks Road and my district.  And the

 

      20        parking, you know, for me, that's not a

 

      21        protection issue.

 

      22             Number 6 has been agreed to, number 7 has

 

      23        been mostly agreed to, number 8 has been agreed

 

      24        to, number 9 has been agreed to, and 10 we just,

 

      25        you know, kind of agreed to.

 

 

 

 

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       1             What's left is the River Oaks Road access

 

       2        and any -- you know, at the end of the day,

 

       3        900 units -- 510 units in Phase I, quickly

 

       4        followed by another 390 units, you know, to me

 

       5        it's a little dense.  Some relief there would be

 

       6        nice.

 

       7             And, Mr. Harden, is your -- there's no

 

       8        flexibility there on the density?

 

       9             MR. HARDEN:  Well, Mr. Shad, you say I have

 

      10        no flexibility.  Remember --

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  No more flexibility.  How about

 

      12        that?

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  I'm in a quandary.  I've

 

      14        agreed to everything and now we want to start

 

      15        negotiating from what I agreed on.

 

      16             It's not followed rapidly.  It's followed

 

      17        by 50,000 square feet of retail or office.

 

      18             MR. SHAD:  Right.

 

      19             MR. HARDEN:  And then we can -- and then we

 

      20        have to add on the bus -- what do you call it --

 

      21        the glorified -- the really, really nice bus

 

      22        facility, and so there are some phasing

 

      23        conditions.

 

      24             MR. SHAD:  You can say no.  But I just ask

 

      25        you --

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  Yeah, but I don't want to --

 

       2             MR. SHAD:  This is it.  I didn't know if

 

       3        there was any --

 

       4             MR. HARDEN:  I don't want to seem like I'm

 

       5        being obstructive --

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  Right.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  -- because I've tried to agree

 

       8        because, as you can see, as we agree on stuff,

 

       9        I'm okay.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  But if you're only going to

 

      11        build -- you know, if you're only going to build

 

      12        3- to 400, let's not leave it at 510 if you

 

      13        think it's going to be that lower number.  Let's

 

      14        just give us all some peace of mind and say 400.

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  I think, as I said earlier, if

 

      16        I knew that answer, I would tell it to you.

 

      17             MR. SHAD:  All right.  Okay.  Got it.

 

      18             Well, we've made progress.  The two things

 

      19        in front of the committee that are really left

 

      20        is -- the River Oaks Road access is the main

 

      21        thing, and then the phasing got in trouble with

 

      22        this TOD concept, and I think it's a little

 

      23        dense.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      25             MR. SHAD:  Thanks.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's vote on the last Shad

 

       2        amendment.  I think someone did move that and

 

       3        seconded it.

 

       4             All in favor of that amendment signify by

 

       5        saying aye.

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      10        approved that amendment.

 

      11             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a suggestion or a

 

      14        solution for River Oaks Road, if we can turn

 

      15        that camera on.

 

      16             This is kind of a -- you've got to excuse

 

      17        my pathetic drawing, but this is kind of a -- I

 

      18        have actually talked to the applicant about

 

      19        this, and he was fine with this.  It seems to

 

      20        address the issue that Sean Kelly from the

 

      21        Planning Department brought up where anybody

 

      22        leaving the development cannot make a right onto

 

      23        River Oaks Road and go down through the

 

      24        neighborhood, but people from the neighborhood

 

      25        can come up that direction and turn left into

 

 

 

 

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       1        the development.

 

       2             So you can address those people that are

 

       3        coming up River Oaks Road that want to turn into

 

       4        the development, just as -- rather than going

 

       5        that way, going into San Marco, they'll either

 

       6        go out the north side up to Atlantic Boulevard

 

       7        and to San Marco and get up on Philips Highway.

 

       8             And, Mr. Harden, are you -- we talked about

 

       9        this.  Are you -- is this what we talked about

 

      10        and are you --

 

      11             MR. HARDEN:  No, I think -- that is not my

 

      12        recollection.  But if you will look at the study

 

      13        that the Planning Department did, I think that

 

      14        the -- I understood from the Planning Commission

 

      15        that's called a chicane.  The chicane

 

      16        methodology is the middle thing.  You're talking

 

      17        about saving five trips a day, and I just

 

      18        don't -- I'm at a quandary to know that that

 

      19        would solve the problem.

 

      20             We're -- I don't want to get at odds with

 

      21        the Planning Department.  I agree with them,

 

      22        it's a life safety issue as well.  It's a

 

      23        de minimis impact, so I would respectfully

 

      24        request we leave it open.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. KELLY:  I just want to bring up --

 

       2        there are some additional property owners right

 

       3        now on Summerall Road.  So where you put that

 

       4        chicane -- if you put it at the front, where it

 

       5        intersects with River Oaks, then it's affecting

 

       6        the access to their properties right now.

 

       7             If you put it at the north end of

 

       8        Summerall, then essentially you've made that an

 

       9        inbound-only access, which obviously it would

 

      10        just be no exiting traffic at all coming up

 

      11        there.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Just a

 

      13        suggestion.

 

      14             Mr. Joost.

 

      15             MR. JOOST:  Mr. Kelly, are -- is the main

 

      16        concern with the Summerall Road a safety issue

 

      17        for access for fire and police vehicles?  Is it

 

      18        a public safety concern?  Is that your main

 

      19        concern?

 

      20             MR. KELLY:  It's certainly one of them.

 

      21             Again, maintaining connectivity is always

 

      22        probably going to be more in the public interest

 

      23        than cutting off roads and decreasing the

 

      24        circulation.  Again, then you're unfairly

 

      25        loading up trips on other portions of the

 

 

 

 

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       1        development.

 

       2             MR. JOOST:  But the impact is de minimis on

 

       3        that part, what we've already discussed.

 

       4             Are you familiar at all with the back

 

       5        entrance to Queen's Harbour where they have a

 

       6        gate that allows emergency vehicles in and out?

 

       7        It's right behind the fire station there.  That

 

       8        way they don't have to go all the way out to

 

       9        Atlantic Boulevard through the main gate.

 

      10             MR. KELLY:  That's certainly --

 

      11             MR. JOOST:  Is that a solution here?

 

      12             MR. KELLY:  It doesn't satisfy the Planning

 

      13        Department's complete solution.  I think it's --

 

      14        that's a valid issue and that's one of the

 

      15        reasons -- health and safety, obviously.

 

      16             But, again, we're looking at it from a

 

      17        functional aspect, from the people living in

 

      18        San Marco, maximizing connectivity for those

 

      19        developments and not putting additional

 

      20        unnecessary trips out onto Philips Highway for

 

      21        those people in the neighborhood that will be

 

      22        utilizing the retail and office commercial

 

      23        component.

 

      24             MR. JOOST:  Mr. Jones, does that sound like

 

      25        a compromise to you or back under the bus?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. JONES:  Under the bus, huh.

 

       2             As long as we can slow you down.

 

       3             I would defer to the developer.  I don't

 

       4        see where that -- or even making it one way, one

 

       5        way going north would -- I don't know if that

 

       6        satisfies the Planning Department or the

 

       7        developer, but if you had a one-way going

 

       8        north --

 

       9             MR. JOOST:  You've got the other property

 

      10        owners on Summerall.

 

      11             MR. KELLY:  But the chicane -- if you put

 

      12        the chicane at the north end where it doesn't

 

      13        affect the access to the other properties, a

 

      14        one-way inbound would work at that location, and

 

      15        that would prevent any trips leaving.  It would

 

      16        provide the ability for the public and the

 

      17        surrounding area to access that without getting

 

      18        onto Philips Highway and will allow for

 

      19        emergency vehicles to access as well.

 

      20             MR. JOOST:  What's the reality of the

 

      21        people actually following the chicane?

 

      22             Mr. Harden, would you be amenable to

 

      23        limiting access to Summerall to emergency

 

      24        vehicles only, similar to the Queen's Harbour

 

      25        back entrance?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  Well, I think that's the same

 

       2        question Councilman Graham -- that -- I mean,

 

       3        it's --

 

       4             MR. JOOST:  Well, if we have a chicane --

 

       5        and it wouldn't limit access to the business

 

       6        owners already on Summerall.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Well -- but you would cut it

 

       8        off to people coming in to the project.

 

       9             I mean, Sean has raised the issue of

 

      10        connectivity and, you know, it is -- there are

 

      11        life safety issues that you can resolve.  I

 

      12        mean, it's -- it's a question of good planning

 

      13        principles.

 

      14             They've already -- I mean, we've gone

 

      15        through this several times.  I'm trying to

 

      16        answer the question, but it doesn't make good

 

      17        sense to cut it off there, particularly just for

 

      18        traffic -- I mean, for fire rescue vehicles.  I

 

      19        don't --

 

      20             It's our preference not to.  We agree with

 

      21        the Planning Department's position.

 

      22             MR. JOOST:  I mean, but eventually, if

 

      23        Mr. Shad has his way, he's going to cut it

 

      24        completely off at the railroad anyway.

 

      25             MR. HARDEN:  Well, I understand that that's

 

 

 

 

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       1        been tried, and I -- if that happens, that's

 

       2        just -- nothing I can do about it I guess is the

 

       3        answer to that question.

 

       4             But in the interim, you've got everything

 

       5        to the west -- you're stopping people from

 

       6        coming out and turning left and going onto

 

       7        Philips Highway.  You're stopping -- I mean,

 

       8        you're stopping people from coming off Philips

 

       9        Highway coming into the project by jerry-rigging

 

      10        the site.

 

      11             If Councilman Shad is successful in doing

 

      12        that, then that's a different hill to die on, I

 

      13        guess.

 

      14             MR. JOOST:  So -- and in the interest of

 

      15        compromise, you don't think it's a good idea to

 

      16        limit access to Summerall with --

 

      17             MR. HARDEN:  I think I've compromised on

 

      18        17 things so far, and now we're starting to

 

      19        negotiate from where I compromised from.

 

      20             I do not.  I don't think that -- I don't

 

      21        think half a loaf there is a compromise.  I

 

      22        think the access is appropriate for the same

 

      23        reasons Mr. Kelly indicates they are.

 

      24             MR. JOOST:  All right.  Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Clark.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. CLARK:  (Inaudible.)

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I have nothing on the

 

       3        queue.  We have -- this bill was amended three

 

       4        times.  We're going to make just one big

 

       5        amendment.  And it's been moved and seconded.

 

       6             Any further discussion on the bill?

 

       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller, do we need to do

 

       9        anything to make you happy before we pass this

 

      10        or vote this thing up or down?

 

      11             MS. ELLER:  No.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That all being said,

 

      13        please open the ballot.

 

      14             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      24        the vote.

 

      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

       2        approved 2008-563 as about 17 times amended.

 

       3             Mr. Jones.

 

       4             MR. JONES:  I just thank the committee and

 

       5        thank Mr. Shad and the developer and the

 

       6        residents of San Marco for their work.  And I

 

       7        think what we have, what you approved tonight is

 

       8        a lot better than what we had originally.

 

       9             Thanks a lot.

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  Mr. Chairman.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Shad.

 

      12             MR. SHAD:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      13             I had one more item, if it would please you

 

      14        or if you'd indulge me.

 

      15             -793 and -794.  They should be very quick,

 

      16        I believe.  Maybe.

 

      17             There's some members of the CPAC here to

 

      18        speak.

 

      19             2008-793.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Council members, if we can

 

      21        turn to page 21, 2008-793 and -794.  We'll open

 

      22        that public hearing.

 

      23             We have Tom Ingram.

 

      24             (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)

 

      25             MR. INGRAM:  Are there any other cards,

 

 

 

 

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       1        Mr. Chairman?

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.

 

       3             MR. INGRAM:  I spoke with him the other

 

       4        day.

 

       5             I thought that he was here for this item

 

       6        and found out that he was not.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  So you're here for questions

 

       8        only?

 

       9             MR. INGRAM:  I'm here if you have any

 

      10        questions.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.  We're

 

      12        appreciative of that.

 

      13             That being said, we'll close that public

 

      14        hearing.

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved on

 

      18        -793.

 

      19             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      22        ballot.

 

      23             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      24             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       8        the vote.

 

       9             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      11        approved -793.

 

      12             -794.

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

      16        and seconded.

 

      17             All in favor of the amendment say aye.

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      22        approved the amendment.

 

      23             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

 

 

 

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       1        seconded as amended.

 

       2             Any discussion on the bill?

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Please open the ballot.

 

       5             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       6             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      15        the vote.

 

      16             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      18        approved -794.

 

      19             MR. SHAD:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Have a

 

      20        good night.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're welcome.

 

      22             MR. SHAD:  And thank you all for your --

 

      23        you know, no one can say that your didn't -- we

 

      24        didn't get a fair hearing here.  And y'all

 

      25        certainly took your time and debated that in

 

 

 

 

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                                                           239

 

 

       1        great detail, and I appreciate that.

 

       2             Thank you.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones, did you have

 

       4        anything else you wanted to take care of or are

 

       5        you just going to part ways?

 

       6             MR. JONES:  I'm leaving.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       8             MR. JONES:  Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  2008-565.  We'll open

 

      10        that public hearing.

 

      11             No speakers.

 

      12             We will continue that public hearing and

 

      13        take no action.

 

      14             -567, we will open that public hearing.

 

      15             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      16        public hearing and take no further action.

 

      17             -588, we will open the public hearing.

 

      18             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      19        public hearing and take no action.

 

      20             Top of page 12, -607.  I'm sorry.  -606 and

 

      21        -607.  We will open those public hearings.

 

      22             Seeing no speakers, we will close those

 

      23        public hearings.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      25             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       2        seconded.

 

       3             Any discussion on the bill?

 

       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       6        ballot.

 

       7             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       8             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      17        the vote.

 

      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      20        approved -606.

 

      21             -607.

 

      22             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      23             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      25        seconded.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Any discussion on the bill?

 

       2             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       4        ballot.

 

       5             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       6             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      15        the vote.

 

      16             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      18        approved -607.

 

      19             -650, we will open the public hearing.

 

      20             Okay.  The first speaker is Susie Scott,

 

      21        followed by Michael -- looks like Lashbrook.

 

      22             Come on down front, please.

 

      23             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      24             MR. WEBB:  (Inaudible.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Actually, that's a good

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        point.

 

       2             Ma'am, if you'd hold on for just a second.

 

       3             Mr. Webb.

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  Thank you.

 

       5             Mr. Chairman, I need to declare ex-parte

 

       6        communication.  Yesterday I had a conversation

 

       7        with Jim Register from the Planning Commission

 

       8        regarding the movement of this bill through

 

       9        council, as well I had a conversation with

 

      10        Mr. Mark Cowart (phonetic) from my district on

 

      11        the same matter.

 

      12             Today in my office I had a meeting at

 

      13        3:30 -- not my office -- in the conference room

 

      14        at City Hall, fourth floor, had a meeting with

 

      15        Mike Lashbrook, who is going to speak, Jim Hill

 

      16        from the CPAC, Hawley Smith, Jr., Hawley Smith,

 

      17        Sr., Nathan Day, Susie Scott, Dylan Reingold

 

      18        from the General Counsel's Office, and Sean

 

      19        Kelly from the Planning Department.

 

      20             Again, we discussed the impact of this

 

      21        bill, its consistency or compliance with the

 

      22        Mandarin overlay.  That was probably about a

 

      23        two-hour meeting.

 

      24             And over the past, I guess, three months or

 

      25        so, I've had various communications with all of

 

 

 

 

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       1        these parties, significantly Ms. Scott, Mr. Day,

 

       2        Mr. Hawley Smith, and members of the CPAC as

 

       3        well -- Mr. Hill.

 

       4             Thank you.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       6             Anybody else need to declare any ex-parte?

 

       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, Ms. Scott.

 

       9             MR. JOOST:  I do.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Joost.

 

      11             MR. JOOST:  Earlier this afternoon I had a

 

      12        brief conversation with Mr. Hawley Smith --

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      14             If there's no one else --

 

      15             MR. JOOST:  -- about the project.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Ms. Scott.  You have

 

      17        three minutes, please.

 

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Mr. Chairman, council

 

      19        members, thank you for allowing me to speak on

 

      20        application 2008-650.

 

      21             My name is Susie Scott.  I live at 13200

 

      22        Mandarin Road, and I'm president of the Mandarin

 

      23        Community Club.

 

      24             Each LUZ Committee member should have

 

      25        correspondence from the club, and I'm here

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        representing 17 members of the board.

 

       2             We share a common concern for the impact of

 

       3        this large scale development on Mandarin Road

 

       4        and the future of development as prescribed

 

       5        under the Mandarin overlay.

 

       6             Over the last few years, two significant

 

       7        pieces of legislation have been passed by you or

 

       8        your council colleagues:  the historic corridor

 

       9        ordinance protecting Mandarin Road, and most

 

      10        recently the Mandarin overlay, 2007-652(E),

 

      11        restricting lot size along Mandarin Road to one

 

      12        acre or larger.

 

      13             Those ordinances were passed to preserve

 

      14        the unique qualities of Mandarin and Mandarin

 

      15        Road:  the natural beauty, the large number of

 

      16        trees, the low density and rural history of the

 

      17        area.

 

      18             The Mandarin overlay specifically amends

 

      19        the code by adopting criteria for all land use

 

      20        and zoning applications.  It cites the necessity

 

      21        due to development pressure, applications

 

      22        seeking to change the rural and estate-sized

 

      23        properties, and the need to reduce the potential

 

      24        for adverse effects to the areas caused by

 

      25        increases in density.  The application before

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        you is proof of the necessity for the adoption

 

       2        of the overlay.

 

       3             The overlay requires a limit in density to

 

       4        one unit per acre.  This property is 49 units on

 

       5        49 acres, where only a handful of homes

 

       6        currently exist.  That is an increase in

 

       7        density.

 

       8             Given the language and intent of the

 

       9        overlay to regulate that density, the -- we feel

 

      10        the application before you does not meet the

 

      11        criteria set forth in the overlay.  There is no

 

      12        provision within those 49 acres for greenspace,

 

      13        for recreation or open space, for retention, for

 

      14        buffers, for entry off Mandarin Road, which

 

      15        cannot be widened per the language within the

 

      16        two protective ordinances.

 

      17             A 100-foot-wide entry is proposed in the

 

      18        application, which alone should eliminate the

 

      19        equivalent of one average lot width, yet the

 

      20        applicant has not reduced the total number of

 

      21        units to accommodate for that loss.

 

      22             In fact, under this PUD, all the lots

 

      23        include road coverage, and many of the lots

 

      24        include both road and retention square foot

 

      25        coverage in order to stretch to meet the one

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        acre lot requirement.

 

       2             Within the zoning code, there is a table

 

       3        inset consistent with the PUD application with

 

       4        the ratio percentage of elements to the total

 

       5        acreage.  Maybe a table inset would be helpful

 

       6        to address any ambiguity in the calculation, but

 

       7        we have not seen that table inset.

 

       8             If the applicant requires the flexibility

 

       9        of a PUD to encourage the preservation of the

 

      10        natural site features, a condition for a PUD

 

      11        under section 656.340, then why is there such an

 

      12        insistence on maximizing the ratio of lots to

 

      13        acreage?

 

      14             This application is flawed in concept and

 

      15        it masquerades as an attempt to meet the overlay

 

      16        law but, in fact, circumvents the intent and

 

      17        relies on subjective interpretation.

 

      18             May I finish?

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Your time is actually up,

 

      20        ma'am.

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  Mr. Chairman, can I ask the

 

      22        speaker a question?

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

      24             MR. WEBB:  Is there anything you'd briefly

 

      25        like to add, Ms. Scott?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. SCOTT:  Yes.  Very briefly, if I may.

 

       2             I just want to say that for this and every

 

       3        project that follows, we should not be

 

       4        challenging the newly-adopted standards in

 

       5        setting the bar low, but we should be

 

       6        reinforcing those standards with the strictest

 

       7        interpretation and enforcement, and we're asking

 

       8        that you defer or deny this application based on

 

       9        its circumvention of the intent of the

 

      10        newly-passed overlay.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Scott, is it possible

 

      12        for us to get a copy of that which you read?

 

      13        Because you read pretty quickly and our court

 

      14        reporter, I'm sure, couldn't keep up with you.

 

      15        So we can just put that into the record.

 

      16             MS. SCOTT:  I can -- it's been grossly

 

      17        amended, but I can make certain that she gets a

 

      18        copy of it as presented  --

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      20             MS. SCOTT:  -- if you request that.

 

      21             Thank you.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Michael Lashbrook, followed

 

      23        by Susan Carter.

 

      24             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      25             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Michael Lashbrook,

 

 

 

 

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       1        but close enough.

 

       2             Thank you for the opportunity to talk here

 

       3        tonight.

 

       4             My name is Michael Lashbrook, 11155

 

       5        Wethersfield Court, Jacksonville.

 

       6             I am the vice chair of the LUZ subcommittee

 

       7        for the Southeast CPAC.

 

       8             The first thing I want to note is that I

 

       9        don't -- I didn't see it in the -- on the agenda

 

      10        today, but the CPAC did vote to recommend denial

 

      11        of this application.  And I believe a letter

 

      12        should have been sent to the committee.  If it

 

      13        hasn't, it should be forthcoming.

 

      14             I want to reemphasize what she said about

 

      15        the -- what Susie just said about the Mandarin

 

      16        overlay.  The development itself is actually

 

      17        beautiful.  We had some long conversations today

 

      18        with the developer, and what they're proposing

 

      19        is really what we want to see grow and develop

 

      20        in Mandarin.  It's absolutely a wonderful idea.

 

      21             The problem that we have with it is simply

 

      22        the density that they're doing.  Forty-nine

 

      23        lots -- excuse me -- 49 units on 49 acres, not

 

      24        taking into account the roadways and the

 

      25        retention ponds, is really trying to circumvent

 

 

 

 

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       1        the spirit of the Mandarin overlay.

 

       2             In particular, there are about four lots

 

       3        that are over 50 percent -- over 50 percent used

 

       4        for easements.  Those easements are for

 

       5        sidewalks, for the roadway -- the community

 

       6        roadway that travels through the neighborhood,

 

       7        as well as the retention ponds on the other side

 

       8        of the street from these lots.

 

       9             When you look at the proposal that the

 

      10        developer has, you will note that those -- those

 

      11        four particular lots in all reality, those lots

 

      12        are -- the usable portions of those parcels are

 

      13        really only about a third of an acre.

 

      14        Everything beyond that is simply roadway,

 

      15        sidewalk, and retention ponds.

 

      16             It is really our opinion that this is an

 

      17        obvious blatant attempt to circumvent the

 

      18        one-acre stipulation in the overlay.  Our fear

 

      19        is if council lets this go through, we're saying

 

      20        it doesn't matter, it doesn't count, and we'll

 

      21        ignore it.

 

      22             I think it's important at this point that

 

      23        the overlay is enforced and that it have some

 

      24        teeth.

 

      25             Just to pass this as it is today and to

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        never actually look at this on its merits is to

 

       2        ignore what this council passed just last term.

 

       3        I don't think that we can have that happen.  To

 

       4        do so I think would have been a waste of

 

       5        council's time in passing the overlay in the

 

       6        first place.

 

       7             Thank you.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       9             Susan Carter, followed by Patrick -- looks

 

      10        like Conrad.

 

      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.  First I would like

 

      13        to thank my councilman, Jack Webb, for his

 

      14        community support.  It's greatly appreciated.

 

      15             I'm here tonight representing three

 

      16        families that for 30 years have lived directly

 

      17        across the street from this property that's in

 

      18        question.  We're not tree huggers.  We don't

 

      19        fight developers.  Well, maybe a little.

 

      20             We're simply here to ask that you please

 

      21        take into consideration whether 49 homes on

 

      22        49 acres truly meets the intent of the overlay,

 

      23        and help us save our historic road.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             Patrick, follow by Mr. Hainline.

 

       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.

 

       4             My name is Patrick Corrado.  I live at

 

       5        12709 Mandarin Road.

 

       6             I'd like to echo a lot of the comments that

 

       7        were previously made; however, I'd like to also

 

       8        add the fact that under Section 656.430, Planned

 

       9        Unit Development, where it's actually explained

 

      10        what it is, it says the intent is not -- "It is

 

      11        not the intent to utilize the planned unit

 

      12        development solely to diminish the usual

 

      13        application of the provisions of the zoning

 

      14        code."

 

      15             Well, in this case, that's exactly what's

 

      16        happening.  The applicant has asked for a PUD

 

      17        and he's asking -- he stated it being 49 units

 

      18        on 49.33 acres when, in reality, it's actually

 

      19        49 units on about 44-and-a-half acres.

 

      20             We've had discussions with the

 

      21        representative from the developer as well as

 

      22        with the developer.  And, up to this point,

 

      23        we've had -- we've had no cooperation on any

 

      24        type of mediation at all.

 

      25             I've heard a lot going on earlier this

 

 

 

 

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       1        evening from other council -- and everybody is

 

       2        negotiating and everybody is trying to get

 

       3        things done and, you know, get to the bottom

 

       4        line.  But, in this case, we're getting no

 

       5        cooperation and it's very frustrating.

 

       6             So I think that -- my feeling is that this

 

       7        should be turned down simply because it does not

 

       8        meet the zoning requirements, it does not meet

 

       9        the overlay.

 

      10             And that's all I have to say.  Thank you.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      12             Mr. Hainline.

 

      13             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have one minute to

 

      15        speak.

 

      16             MR. HAINLINE:  Mr. Chairman, T.R. Hainline,

 

      17        1301 Riverplace Boulevard, and I'm here

 

      18        representing the applicant, which is a Hawley

 

      19        Smith entity.

 

      20             Many of you know Hawley Smith.  He's

 

      21        developed many things in Mandarin, and I think

 

      22        the letters from the Mandarin Community Club

 

      23        have stated the quality of his developments and

 

      24        the respect that they have for Mr. Smith.

 

      25             It distresses him that we are here with

 

 

 

 

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       1        opposition from the community club and the CPAC.

 

       2             He has spoken with many neighbors who are

 

       3        supportive of this development, and he has met

 

       4        with -- was at the -- was represented at the

 

       5        CPAC meeting and has met with the community club

 

       6        as it was said today.

 

       7             There is a fundamental issue here, and this

 

       8        is what I want to touch on in my very brief time

 

       9        and I want to get it right out.

 

      10             You heard it, 49 units on 49.3 acres.  That

 

      11        is one unit per acre.  The Mandarin Road zoning

 

      12        overlay provides that you can't do anything more

 

      13        dense than one unit per acre.  We're complying

 

      14        with that.  No one stood up here and said

 

      15        they're not complying with the Mandarin

 

      16        overlay.  We are.  Your staff has concluded that

 

      17        and the Planning Commission concluded that.

 

      18             Their confusion comes in part from the fact

 

      19        that that is a gross density.  And, of course,

 

      20        like every other development that comes before

 

      21        you, we include retention ponds and roads in our

 

      22        density calculations.  That's been the precedent

 

      23        with this city for as long as I've been

 

      24        practicing, and it's with every development that

 

      25        comes before you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             You don't net out roads and retention when

 

       2        you calculate your density.  No one does.  And

 

       3        you can ask that question of Mr. Kelly and of

 

       4        your counsel if you wish.

 

       5             But we are completely in compliance with

 

       6        the Mandarin overlay.  The only thing that was

 

       7        said was that we violate the intent of it.  We

 

       8        do not believe that is the case.

 

       9             I'm going to pass around here a site plan.

 

      10        The site plan you have in your drawings, one

 

      11        thing that it doesn't show is the trees.  We

 

      12        have had all the trees surveyed on this site,

 

      13        and they are shown on this site plan.

 

      14             The road layout, the retention ponds, the

 

      15        lot configuration, all are in an effort to save

 

      16        trees.  That's what Mr. Smith does in his

 

      17        developments, and everyone who has seen his

 

      18        developments knows that.

 

      19             So what we're trying to do here is save

 

      20        trees in our -- in the entire design of the

 

      21        thing, and you can look there and you'll see

 

      22        those are surveyed trees that he is preserving.

 

      23             We're consistent with the Mandarin

 

      24        overlay.  Your staff has held that, and the

 

      25        Planning Commission held that.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             We'd be happy to answer any questions on

 

       2        that and go into any further detail and -- if

 

       3        you wish.

 

       4             And Mr. Smith is here and happy to answer

 

       5        questions as well.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hainline, I have a

 

       7        question for you.

 

       8             Is this gated?

 

       9             MR. HAINLINE:  Say it again.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is this community --

 

      11             MR. HAINLINE:  It's a private -- it's a

 

      12        private road, it's a private community, and the

 

      13        answer is yes.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  It is gated?

 

      15             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      17             Mr. Holt.

 

      18             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      19             Mr. Hainline, you wouldn't happen to be

 

      20        able to tell me about how much of this property

 

      21        is wetlands?

 

      22             MR. HAINLINE:  We can get Mr. Smith up

 

      23        here.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's all right,

 

      25        Mr. Hainline.  He's next after you anyway, so

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        we'll let him talk and then answer questions.

 

       2             MR. HAINLINE:  Okay.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Smith, you're up next.

 

       4             (Mr. Smith approaches the podium.)

 

       5             MR. SMITH:  Mr. Chairman, members of the

 

       6        council, I appreciate the opportunity to come

 

       7        before you.

 

       8             I can't give you an exact acreage, but this

 

       9        property is permitted now, or the nucleus of

 

      10        this property.  I've added about ten acres to it

 

      11        since it was previously engineered and planned,

 

      12        and all of the wetlands, which are not

 

      13        substantial.  It's a pretty high and dry piece

 

      14        of land.  It's probably less than an acre of

 

      15        wetlands.  At the most, maybe an acre and a

 

      16        half.  But all of that under the prior

 

      17        development was permitted.

 

      18             Okay.  Nathan says it's two-and-a-half, so

 

      19        I misquoted.  And I don't want to say --

 

      20        misspeak, but two-and-a-half acres.

 

      21             But all of that has been permitted through

 

      22        the Water Management District to be -- it's not

 

      23        high quality wetlands.  Some of it's been

 

      24        disturbed already.  It's all been permitted and

 

      25        mitigated for already.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go head and finish.  You've

 

       2        got three minutes.

 

       3             You have anything else you want to add?

 

       4             MR. SMITH:  Well, I just want to add to

 

       5        what T.R. said.  I'm really -- I've been

 

       6        developing in this community now for almost

 

       7        37 years, since 1972, and I met with the people

 

       8        and I'm really distressed.

 

       9             But what I did was meet with the Planning

 

      10        Department, meet with the district councilman

 

      11        and other interested parties in Mandarin that I

 

      12        thought were stakeholders early on in the

 

      13        process when I was designing this plan, and met

 

      14        with no opposition.  Everybody was delighted.

 

      15             It wasn't said, but there's a 34-slip

 

      16        commercial dock or marina that is currently

 

      17        permitted, that we're eliminating, that the

 

      18        prior developer was going to do.  And all of the

 

      19        neighbors are delighted with that because of the

 

      20        congestion and view enhancement by not having

 

      21        that marina behind their lot.

 

      22             We wrote a letter to all of the neighbors,

 

      23        as we always do when we're doing a new

 

      24        development that the City wrote.  We had two

 

      25        people contact us.  Both of those people, I

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        think, are satisfied with what we're doing.

 

       2             I'm truly distressed.  I take the

 

       3        responsibility of developing this property very

 

       4        seriously.  I've developed a number of

 

       5        riverfront communities, as you all know, in

 

       6        San Jose and Beauclerc and in Mandarin, and I

 

       7        believe that they're all very well accepted.

 

       8             We went through all the processes to see

 

       9        what we were entitled to do without going beyond

 

      10        the rules and regulations that this council and

 

      11        the Planning Department staff and the Planning

 

      12        board took a lot of time to develop, and those

 

      13        are the rules that we used to develop our plan.

 

      14             And now there is some dichotomy of the

 

      15        understanding of those rules, but we went

 

      16        through the Planning Department and now the

 

      17        General Counsel's Office, and I think they agree

 

      18        with -- I'll let them speak to that, but it's my

 

      19        belief that they agree with our interpretation

 

      20        of the rule.

 

      21             And some of the people that were involved

 

      22        in developing that rule maybe understood it a

 

      23        different way, but they suggested that we just

 

      24        eliminate two lots.

 

      25             I don't think -- you know, I think that's

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        de minimis.  I suggested to them at the same

 

       2        time, why don't you just give me two more lots.

 

       3        It's kind of the same thing.  I mean, what the

 

       4        rule says we're entitled to, I think, is what

 

       5        should be the standard.

 

       6             I appreciate everybody's consideration, and

 

       7        I apologize to the district councilman and to

 

       8        the rest of you that you're put in this

 

       9        position.  I try to avoid these controversies.

 

      10        And I met with these people in an effort to try

 

      11        to work this out, but it's just become where we

 

      12        have two opposite opinions about what the rule

 

      13        is and what's legal and what we have the

 

      14        opportunity to do.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Smith.

 

      16             MR. SMITH:  Any other questions?

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Holt?

 

      18             MR. HOLT:  No.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, that's it.  Thank you.

 

      20             And I have one last speaker, Nathan Day.

 

      21             MR. DAY:  No.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  No?

 

      23             Okay.  I have no further speakers, so I

 

      24        will close the public hearing.

 

      25             Hold on a second, I think.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             Mr. Webb, do you want to speak before or

 

       2        after we hear the amendments?

 

       3             MR. WEBB:  I would like the Planning

 

       4        Department -- before we move the amendment, I'd

 

       5        like the Planning Department to read into the

 

       6        record a letter that was provided to the

 

       7        Planning Commission by the Mandarin Community

 

       8        Club.

 

       9             I guess there was some misunderstanding

 

      10        with respect to that.  And, again, it was not

 

      11        read into the record, and it was a concern --

 

      12        there was a concern that the Mandarin Community

 

      13        Club position on this project was not -- it was

 

      14        not completely understood, so I'd ask the

 

      15        Planning Department to read it in.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  And before you start doing

 

      17        that, make sure that Diane gets a copy of that

 

      18        because you guys tend to read real fast.

 

      19             MR. KELLY:  I'll go slow.

 

      20             The letter is dated September 9th, 2008,

 

      21        addressed to Mr. Wayne Eddie Johnson, Chairman

 

      22        of the Planning Commission, regarding rezoning

 

      23        application 2008-650.

 

      24             "Dear Mr. Johnson and Planning Commission

 

      25        members, on instruction, this letter is directed

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        toward the administrative file for the

 

       2        above-referenced zoning application.

 

       3             "By a majority vote, the Mandarin Community

 

       4        Club, at its regular monthly board meeting held

 

       5        on September 8th, would hereby make it known of

 

       6        their concerns for approval of the application

 

       7        above to rezone 49.33 acres from RLD-A to PUD to

 

       8        permit 49 single-family lots.

 

       9             "The board has the utmost respect for the

 

      10        Hawley Smith Company who wishes to develop the

 

      11        parcel and regards a nearby Hawley Smith

 

      12        neighborhood on Mandarin Road, River Bay

 

      13        Plantation, to be one of the finest along

 

      14        Mandarin Road.

 

      15             "However, after reviewing the application

 

      16        2008-650, the board has concerns over how this

 

      17        project conforms to the Mandarin overlay

 

      18        ordinance 2007-653(E) enacted June 26, 2007.

 

      19             "Since this appears to be the first

 

      20        large-scale single-family residential

 

      21        neighborhood permitted and built under the terms

 

      22        of the new legislation governing future

 

      23        development along Mandarin Road, it is unclear

 

      24        of what constitutes the criteria of one unit per

 

      25        acre.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             "For instance, how are the roads,

 

       2        retention ponds, setbacks, greenspace,

 

       3        et cetera, within the 49.33 total acreage

 

       4        considered for purposes of unit description

 

       5        contained within the terms of 2007-653(E).

 

       6             "The Mandarin overlay was enacted to

 

       7        reduce the potential for adverse impact to the

 

       8        area caused by increases in density, including

 

       9        adverse traffic impacts, and the City of

 

      10        Jacksonville has consistently enforced existing

 

      11        zoning regulations limiting density in order to

 

      12        protect the character of the Mandarin Road area

 

      13        and specifically enforce limiting density to one

 

      14        unit per acre as successfully defended in

 

      15        Holzberg v. COJ.

 

      16             "The Mandarin Community Club board is

 

      17        seeking clarification on the implementation of

 

      18        the Mandarin Road overlay as it applies to this

 

      19        request for rezoning and has concern over

 

      20        precedence set by this project should the terms

 

      21        of the overlay not be enforced at the outset.

 

      22             "For this reason, we respectfully request

 

      23        that 2008-650 be tabled or delayed until all

 

      24        questions and concerns related to meeting the

 

      25        terms of the Mandarin Road overlay can be

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        addressed by the Hawley Smith Company and/or the

 

       2        Planning Department of the City of Jacksonville.

 

       3             "Thank you for your prompt attention to

 

       4        this issue.

 

       5             "Respectfully, Susie Scott, 2008 president,

 

       6        Mandarin Community Club."

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that what you wanted,

 

       8        Mr. Webb?

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      10             Obviously, I have a bunch of questions for

 

      11        the Planning Department and for the General

 

      12        Counsel once we move the amendment.

 

      13             Thank you.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that a motion and a

 

      15        second on the amendment?

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  I'll defer the motion to

 

      17        somebody else.

 

      18             MR. HOLT:  Move the amendment.

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  Second.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  The motion has been moved

 

      21        and seconded.

 

      22             Can we hear the amendments, please.

 

      23             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment is as follows:

 

      24             Condition 1, "The developer shall be

 

      25        subject to the original legal description dated

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        July 21st, 2008."

 

       2             Number 2, "The developer shall be subject

 

       3        to the original written description dated July

 

       4        21st, 2008."

 

       5             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject

 

       6        to the original site plan dated July 21st,

 

       7        2008."

 

       8             Number 4, "The development shall be subject

 

       9        to the review and approval of the Development

 

      10        Services Division, pursuant to the memorandum

 

      11        dated July 30th, 2008, attached, or as otherwise

 

      12        approved by the Planning and Development

 

      13        Department."

 

      14             Condition 5, "The maximum height of all

 

      15        structures shall be 35 feet."

 

      16             Those are the conditions.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hainline, are you in

 

      18        agreement with those conditions as read?

 

      19             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's indicate he said yes.

 

      21             Do I have any questions about the

 

      22        amendments?

 

      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  No questions about the

 

      25        amendments.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             All in favor of the amendments signify by

 

       2        saying aye.

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       7        approved the amendments.

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       9             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      11        seconded as amended.

 

      12             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      13             Mr. Webb.

 

      14             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      15             Okay.  Through the Chair, first, to the

 

      16        General Counsel's office.

 

      17             Shannon, how are you this evening?

 

      18             MS. ELLER:  Great.  Thanks.

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  Let's talk about the Mandarin

 

      20        overlay.  Okay?

 

      21             Specifically -- through the Chair to

 

      22        General Counsel, to Shannon, you were clearly

 

      23        here -- or you have some institutional knowledge

 

      24        as to the negotiations and drafting of the

 

      25        legislation that was ultimately passed of the

 

 

 

 

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       1        Mandarin overlay; is that correct?

 

       2             MS. ELLER:  Correct.

 

       3             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  So you're familiar with

 

       4        the Mandarin overlay as it currently exists?

 

       5             MS. ELLER:  Correct.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  All right.  Well, we had a

 

       7        meeting today and Mr. Reingold from the General

 

       8        Counsel's Office was present.  We had some

 

       9        discussion about the intent and the spirit of

 

      10        the Mandarin overlay.

 

      11             I guess what I'm struggling with -- I will

 

      12        say this, Mr. Chairman, I understand very, very

 

      13        clearly where the community is coming from on

 

      14        this.  The overlay was passed -- the overlay was

 

      15        passed in an attempt to maintain the quality,

 

      16        the integrity of the community as the city

 

      17        continues to grow.

 

      18             In Mandarin, Mr. Chairman, we have

 

      19        struggled with a great deal of sprawl over the

 

      20        last 20 to 25 years, something Mr. Holt is

 

      21        recognizing in his rapidly-developing district.

 

      22             And when I ran for council, I'll say this

 

      23        that, you know, one of the things that I kept

 

      24        talking about was preserving the integrity of

 

      25        the community.  So with respect to the overlay,

 

 

 

 

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       1        I wholeheartedly am committed to supporting --

 

       2        or I'm wholeheartedly committed to making

 

       3        certain that the integrity of the overlay is not

 

       4        compromised.

 

       5             Now, having said that, I also understand

 

       6        that there are legal considerations involved in

 

       7        all of this as well.  And that's painful for me

 

       8        because, you know, at times I'd just like to

 

       9        punt on those issues and -- well, I'll say

 

      10        this:  It's somewhat painful for me to, in some

 

      11        respects -- I don't want to say "agree," but

 

      12        understand where Mr. Hainline is coming from.

 

      13             Just -- sorry, Mr. Hainline.

 

      14             But -- you know, I don't sympathize, but I

 

      15        do understand the legal issues before us.

 

      16             That being the case, is this project, in

 

      17        your view -- in the opinion of the General

 

      18        Counsel's Office, is it consistent with the

 

      19        Mandarin overlay?

 

      20             MS. ELLER:  Yes.

 

      21             I rely on the Planning Department's

 

      22        evaluation of the criteria, and this is the

 

      23        reason why:  When the Mandarin overlay was

 

      24        first -- when it was conceived and considered,

 

      25        there was a lot of -- there were many requests

 

 

 

 

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       1        to do a separate one unit per acre, one unit per

 

       2        acre, one unit per acre.

 

       3             And what we did is we looked at the

 

       4        character of the area, and we -- in the

 

       5        ordinance code, it specifically said that the

 

       6        council finds that they're predominantly

 

       7        developed at a density of one unit per acre or

 

       8        larger, and so the one unit per acre was the

 

       9        standard.

 

      10             However, as you all know, I always talk to

 

      11        you about -- with quasi-judicial matters, you've

 

      12        got to have criteria and standards.  The same

 

      13        thing when you're applying a new set of rules to

 

      14        future development, you have to have criteria

 

      15        and standards.

 

      16             So the way the overlay was created, it sets

 

      17        out that the character and the predominant

 

      18        density in the area is one unit per acre.  And

 

      19        then it puts back on you -- as the councilmember

 

      20        mentioned, puts back on you all the burden, if

 

      21        you will, of determining whether or not a

 

      22        proposed project like this one complies with the

 

      23        criteria.  And there are six or seven different

 

      24        criteria that the Planning Department has

 

      25        evaluated.

 

 

 

 

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       1             And just up and down on the acreage issue,

 

       2        the one unit per acre, we have traditionally and

 

       3        consistently taken gross acreage.  We always

 

       4        take gross acreage.  It's the whole idea of

 

       5        clustering, the ability to move units around.

 

       6             Every development we've evaluated, it's

 

       7        gross acreage, and that -- and sometimes it's

 

       8        frustrating because folks get credit for

 

       9        wetlands or credit for golf courses or roads or

 

      10        things like that.  But gross acreage has been

 

      11        the standard, and you've got 49 acres and

 

      12        49 lots.

 

      13             But, again, it goes beyond that with the

 

      14        Mandarin overlay.  There's the criteria.  And

 

      15        that's what -- that's what is put on you-all.

 

      16             And you have a recommendation from the

 

      17        Planning Department, and it includes consistency

 

      18        with the planning studies in Mandarin, which

 

      19        include the things like the tree studies and

 

      20        those other things that have gone on in

 

      21        Mandarin.  It includes alter- -- whether it

 

      22        would alter the character of Mandarin, which is,

 

      23        you know, your decision based upon the testimony

 

      24        you've received.  Public facilities to support

 

      25        it, whether it's compatible with the surrounding

 

 

 

 

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       1        lot sizes and density, whether the subsequent

 

       2        future development would destroy natural

 

       3        resources, whether it's near a landmark --

 

       4        historic landmark, or whether it would have an

 

       5        impact on hurricane evacuation timing.

 

       6             So those criteria are laid out there in

 

       7        order to give you-all the tools to evaluate the

 

       8        impacts of this project in relation to that one

 

       9        unit per acre, which is what started the

 

      10        Mandarin overlay to begin with.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Was that -- was that

 

      12        a yes or a no?

 

      13             MS. ELLER:  It started with a "yes."

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  All right.  Thank you.

 

      16             Mr. Chair, back to the General Counsel's

 

      17        Office, talk about gross density.  Okay?

 

      18             Understood, and that seems to be the

 

      19        protocol, that seems to be the practice, the

 

      20        established practice with regard to zoning

 

      21        issues.  Okay?

 

      22             What is, practically speaking, the

 

      23        limitation?  I mean, at some point it begs the

 

      24        question, if you've got an acre lot that's

 

      25        nine-tenths water, I mean, what -- does that --

 

 

 

 

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       1        would that satisfy the -- what's the break point

 

       2        with regard to reasonableness of the lot sizes?

 

       3             MS. ELLER:  I don't have the clear answer

 

       4        because it is fact specific, but I can tell you

 

       5        you have the ability, in this case, under the

 

       6        Mandarin overlay criteria, which says whether

 

       7        the application is compatible with surrounding

 

       8        lot sizes and density.

 

       9             So you can take a look at the surrounding

 

      10        area and see, is there -- I mean, is gross --

 

      11        when you do gross density, are the percentages

 

      12        the same, are there a lot of lots to carry --

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  Fair enough.

 

      14             So then I direct that question to the

 

      15        Planning Department.

 

      16             MR. KELLY:  Right.  And I would echo that

 

      17        there are -- off of Mandarin Road, especially

 

      18        across the street, there are smaller lot

 

      19        subdivisions.  You have RLD-C, RLD-D, which are

 

      20        14,000-square-foot lots and quarter-acre lots.

 

      21        And there's a PUD even next to that that has

 

      22        similar size, much smaller lots than what are

 

      23        even proposed under this development.

 

      24             There is a -- in the written description, I

 

      25        believe, it's -- I want to say it's 37,000

 

 

 

 

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       1        square foot minimum lot area as proposed under

 

       2        the written description.  So they'd be

 

       3        substantially larger, three, four times as big

 

       4        as some of the surrounding parcels and more,

 

       5        definitely in keeping with this intent and

 

       6        spirit of the overlay.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Mr. Chairman, back to the

 

       8        General Counsel's Office -- and I beg your

 

       9        indulgence on this thing.  I really want to vet

 

      10        this.

 

      11             Shannon, what is the impact?  What is

 

      12        the -- what is the theory of law?  What is the

 

      13        findings of Holzberg v. COJ, that particular

 

      14        case cited in the overlay?  Just for the

 

      15        committee's edification.

 

      16             MS. ELLER:  That was a case wherein there

 

      17        was a discussion about the character of

 

      18        Mandarin.  And in that case, the judge

 

      19        specifically said that he believed, and his

 

      20        finding was that the character of Mandarin was

 

      21        this more rural character, this one acre lot

 

      22        character.

 

      23             And so that case was part of the rationale

 

      24        that the City Council used in creating the

 

      25        distinguishing line, when they went into this

 

 

 

 

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       1        ordinance code and said, okay, what is our

 

       2        finding going to be.

 

       3             The City Council chose to adopt the finding

 

       4        that a court made after hearing testimony from

 

       5        experts and having argument on either side

 

       6        regarding the character of Mandarin in a

 

       7        separate issue.

 

       8             So that was part of the basis for creating

 

       9        the Mandarin overlay section, which, again, as I

 

      10        mentioned before, specifically makes a finding

 

      11        that the City Council said that Mandarin Road is

 

      12        predominantly developed at a density of one unit

 

      13        per acre or larger, predominantly because at the

 

      14        time of the Mandarin Road overlay adoption

 

      15        there were smaller neighborhoods out there

 

      16        already approved.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  I would -- Mr. Chairman,

 

      18        I would like to share this with the committee.

 

      19             We have had a lot of discussion amongst --

 

      20        you know, within the community -- or at least I

 

      21        have with Mr. Smith and the community club

 

      22        and -- because a lot of the people here in

 

      23        opposition to this project this evening are my

 

      24        supporters, so I take this very, very

 

      25        seriously.  I take it very personally.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             What I think was uniformly agreed upon at

 

       2        the outset of this and is still agreed is that

 

       3        this is -- Mike mentioned this.  This is an

 

       4        absolutely beautiful project.  It's an

 

       5        absolutely beautiful project.  It -- I take

 

       6        Mr. Smith at his word that this, in fact, will

 

       7        probably be one of the most upscale, if not the

 

       8        most upscale residential community in the city

 

       9        of Jacksonville.

 

      10             And, you know, I'm a person who's

 

      11        effectively -- I'm here in council today because

 

      12        I've opposed projects, because I've opposed

 

      13        developments.  You know, since I've been on

 

      14        council, you know, been -- I was in cell tower

 

      15        last year, and I think we shot down four

 

      16        different applications in the district, in

 

      17        between 5 and 6.  So very -- I've been very

 

      18        protective of the community, of the integrity of

 

      19        the community.

 

      20             This one -- this one is very, very

 

      21        difficult because, again, I wish -- I wish that

 

      22        it were not as dense as it is.  However, I think

 

      23        what I'm -- what I'm hearing from the General

 

      24        Counsel's Office is that the project is, in

 

      25        fact, consistent with the Mandarin overlay and

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        that the gross calculation is appropriate.

 

       2             Now, I guess there's been some discussion

 

       3        that -- well, hell -- I mean, excuse me -- heck,

 

       4        I mean.  I can -- pardon me.  I beg your

 

       5        indulgence.  Pardon me.

 

       6             Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

       7             That -- you know, oppose it, shoot it down

 

       8        and let's litigate it.  I don't -- I think that

 

       9        we owe the community better than that, both the

 

      10        district and the city as a whole.

 

      11             I do make note of the fact that everyone in

 

      12        this room and here before this council this

 

      13        evening, this committee this evening, speaking

 

      14        on this project are, in fact, constituents.

 

      15        Every resident in the Mandarin Community Club,

 

      16        the CPAC, as well as Mr. Smith.

 

      17             That being the case, I could -- I could

 

      18        very easily -- I'm going to leave it to you-all

 

      19        to ask more questions of the individuals here

 

      20        this evening, if you see fit, or to drill the

 

      21        General Counsel or the Planning Department, but

 

      22        ultimately it may -- I don't -- I'm not -- I

 

      23        don't know how I'm going to vote on this thing,

 

      24        but I will say that my vote will be dictated

 

      25        upon what I think is right and not what I think

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        is politically expedient, and sometimes it's

 

       2        painful.

 

       3             But that's all I have to say.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Webb.

 

       5             I guess I'll chime in here.  I see several

 

       6        other people have got on the queue.

 

       7             I think the one thing that jumps -- or

 

       8        gives me a level of comfort -- and, granted,

 

       9        this is your district and I'm sure most of us

 

      10        will follow your lead -- is this is a gated

 

      11        community, and that's why I asked that question.

 

      12             The fact that this is a gated community

 

      13        means the City doesn't control the streets, the

 

      14        City doesn't have to go inside the gates.  It

 

      15        doesn't matter if it's 59 different -- 49

 

      16        different lots or one big lot.  I mean, once you

 

      17        get inside that gate, you can actually divide it

 

      18        into 49 even pieces and then say that everybody

 

      19        owns a different piece.  And, therefore, you hit

 

      20        the exact letter of the law and not necessarily

 

      21        the feel of the law, and that gives the comfort

 

      22        for me.

 

      23             If this was not a gated community and you

 

      24        had a road that we had to go -- that we had to

 

      25        control going in there, and then you only have

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        X number of acres left over, then I think you

 

       2        may be getting out of the spirit of it.  But

 

       3        since this is all controlled within, I don't

 

       4        have a problem with it.

 

       5             But, once again, you are the district guy.

 

       6             Mr. Joost.

 

       7             MR. JOOST:  My question would go to legal

 

       8        and Planning.

 

       9             What I heard is this is in compliance with

 

      10        the Mandarin overlay.  Some of the testimony

 

      11        implied that it somehow circumvented the intent

 

      12        of the overlay.  Does this in any way circumvent

 

      13        the intent of the law?

 

      14             MR. KELLY:  No.

 

      15             Through the Chair, the PUD is -- this is

 

      16        very -- again, this is a site plan, specific

 

      17        planned unit development with almost essentially

 

      18        what looks like an engineered site plan with a

 

      19        full-blown tree survey on this parcel.

 

      20             This is the flexibility and the design that

 

      21        is necessary.  Some of these lots are over an

 

      22        acre, some are a little less than an acre, but

 

      23        this is -- this is what good design and good

 

      24        planning is doing, and this is going to be a

 

      25        nice development.  And that's -- you know,

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        beside the point, it's not circumventing the

 

       2        intent of the overlay.

 

       3             Shannon and I both worked on the overlay

 

       4        together with Councilwoman Copeland and, you

 

       5        know, it was very clear in the drafting of that

 

       6        legislation that we didn't regulate the actual

 

       7        lot, individual lot area.  It was density driven

 

       8        from the go.  So I just want to make that point

 

       9        clear.

 

      10             And, by all means, if you evaluate the

 

      11        individual criteria in the overlay and you look

 

      12        at the map of the GIS of the surrounding area

 

      13        and what's proposed, without a doubt, it is

 

      14        consistent with the additional criteria that

 

      15        were added for the zoning applications and

 

      16        consistent with the overlay.

 

      17             MR. CROFTS:  Through the Chair, also I'd

 

      18        point out that I think from a historical

 

      19        perspective, going back, from my point of view,

 

      20        being personally involved in the Mandarin area

 

      21        development plan, this was what was envisioned

 

      22        in this particular location along Mandarin Road

 

      23        down to the river.

 

      24             And, secondly, it's verified as consistent

 

      25        with the comprehensive plan in lieu of the gross

 

 

 

 

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       1        density determinations that we've made as well.

 

       2             So, again, I would also underscore what

 

       3        Sean has said about not circumventing the code.

 

       4             MR. KELLY:  The actual land use is a rural

 

       5        residential land use category, which allows up

 

       6        to two dwelling units per acre, so conceivably

 

       7        half-acre lot sizes.  That would be an

 

       8        application we would recommend denial for

 

       9        because that would be in -- circumventing the

 

      10        intent of the overlay, but we feel strongly that

 

      11        this is genuinely consistent with the overlay

 

      12        and meets all of the criteria.

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  I guess, you know, addressing

 

      14        Mr. Webb's concerns, I mean, the Planning

 

      15        Department says it meets -- not only meets the

 

      16        letter of the law, it goes beyond the intent.

 

      17        It meets all the intent.

 

      18             His words is it's a high and good planning

 

      19        project.  My concern would be, if we voted it

 

      20        down, what are we ever going to approve?

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Holt.

 

      22             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      23             I'm sitting here kind of being a little --

 

      24        feeling a little jealous that you have such a

 

      25        wonderful thing as the Mandarin overlay.  In

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        some of my areas in my district, I wish I had

 

       2        that tool.

 

       3             And I asked a question earlier about

 

       4        wetlands because I've had issues in the past

 

       5        with developments coming in and they said, well,

 

       6        we've got an average of half-acre lots.  And I

 

       7        say, well, that's because 60 percent of the land

 

       8        is wetland and actually works out to be

 

       9        quarter-acre lots or less if you take the

 

      10        uplands.

 

      11             But them saying that it was two-and-a-half

 

      12        acres, I believe, of wetland out of 49,

 

      13        basically 5 percent of the land was wet, I think

 

      14        it not only complies with the legal requirements

 

      15        of the Mandarin overlay, it really complies with

 

      16        the spirit, and I find it hard to not support it

 

      17        fully, so that's what I'll do.

 

      18             Thank you.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Dr. Gaffney.

 

      20             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      21             Yes.  I just wanted to express my

 

      22        sentiments.

 

      23             I concur with the other of my colleagues,

 

      24        that -- as I look at this project, it's very

 

      25        consistent, consistent with the -- with the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        spirit of the other -- spirit of the Planning

 

       2        Department and it's an extremely beautiful

 

       3        project, and I wish I could get a lot of

 

       4        these -- a few of these in my area.

 

       5             And, therefore, I think it's something I

 

       6        definitely will support.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       8             Okay.  And I've got to add, Mr. Smith being

 

       9        a chemical engineer from Georgia Tech, it's got

 

      10        to be a fantastic project anyway.

 

      11             I see nobody else on the queue, so let's

 

      12        open the ballot.

 

      13             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      14             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      23        the vote.

 

      24             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        approved 2008-650 as amended.

 

       2             Bottom of the page, -713.  We will open the

 

       3        public hearing.

 

       4             Seeing no speakers, continue that public

 

       5        hearing and take no further action.

 

       6             -714, we'll open the public hearing.

 

       7             Alberta Hipps, come on down.

 

       8             (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)

 

       9             MS. HIPPS:  Mr. Chairman and council

 

      10        members, Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret Street,

 

      11        number 323.

 

      12             I'm here to speak on this rezoning, which

 

      13        is located on 103rd Street.  I know you have an

 

      14        approval from the Planning Commission and from

 

      15        the Planning Department, and I'll answer any

 

      16        questions.

 

      17             (Brief pause.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry, Ms. Hipps.

 

      19             MS. HIPPS:  That's all right.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  No further speakers,

 

      21        we will close that public hearing.

 

      22             Someone move the amendment.

 

      23             MR. HOLT:  Move the amendment.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Planning Department, let's

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        hear the amendment, please.

 

       2             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment is as follows:

 

       3             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

       4        be subject to the revised legal description

 

       5        dated September 17, 2008."

 

       6             Number 2, "The development shall be subject

 

       7        to the revised written description dated

 

       8        September 18, 2008."

 

       9             Number 3, "The development shall be subject

 

      10        to the original site plan dated October 19,

 

      11        2007."

 

      12             Number 4, that "The development shall be

 

      13        subject to the review and approval of the

 

      14        Development Services Division memorandum dated

 

      15        August 27, 2008, or as otherwise approved by the

 

      16        Development Services Division, FDOT, JTA, and

 

      17        the Planning and Development Department."

 

      18             Condition number 5, "Boats and other

 

      19        similar items shall not be stacked."

 

      20             Number 6, "A landscape plan indicating a

 

      21        continuous hedge and a tree 40 foot on center in

 

      22        front of a black vinyl chain-link fence along

 

      23        Connie Jean Road shall be provided subject to

 

      24        the review and approval of the Planning and

 

      25        Development Department at the time of

 

 

 

 

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       1        verification of substantial compliance to the

 

       2        PUD."

 

       3             Condition number 7, "All light fixtures,

 

       4        including security lighting, shall be cutoff

 

       5        fixtures and should be incorporated as an

 

       6        integral design element that complements the

 

       7        design of the building and project through its

 

       8        design style, materials and color.  All cutoff

 

       9        fixtures shall not have more than one percent of

 

      10        lamp lumens above horizontal.

 

      11             "All sag lenses, drop lenses and convex

 

      12        lenses shall be prohibited.

 

      13             "Illumination levels at all property lines

 

      14        shall not exceed one-half footcandle where

 

      15        adjacent to residential areas or right-of-ways,

 

      16        and one footcandle where adjacent to

 

      17        nonresidential uses.

 

      18             "A lighting plan showing photometrics,

 

      19        pole height and fixtures shall be submitted

 

      20        subject to the review and approval of the

 

      21        Planning and Development Department at the time

 

      22        of verification of substantial compliance to the

 

      23        PUD."

 

      24             That concludes the amendment.

 

      25             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, there is also, I

 

 

 

 

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       1        guess, a clarification with regards to the

 

       2        screening on the fence, that they could utilize

 

       3        what is like a black canvas cloth, tennis court

 

       4        similar type of material along the vinyl dip

 

       5        chain-link fence to provide the additional

 

       6        screening as needed.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Hipps, are you okay with

 

       8        those amendments as read?

 

       9             MS. HIPPS:  Yes, sir, I am.

 

      10             And I think there's also a scrivener's

 

      11        error amendment that --

 

      12             MR. CROFTS:  That's correct.  There is a

 

      13        deletion of the CCG-2 zoning designation.

 

      14             MS. HIPPS:  This particular property is

 

      15        CCG- -- I mean it's CN, and that's a correction

 

      16        we wanted to make in the record.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      18             Seeing no questions of the amendment, all

 

      19        in favor of the amendment signify by saying aye.

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      24        approved the amendment.

 

      25             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       3        seconded as amended.

 

       4             I see nobody in the queue.

 

       5             Please open the ballot.

 

       6             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       7             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      16        the vote.

 

      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      19        approved 2008-714.

 

      20             I will open the public hearing on -715 and

 

      21        -716.

 

      22             Seeing no speakers, I will close -715.

 

      23             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

 

 

 

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       1        seconded.

 

       2             Any discussion on the bill?

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       5        ballot.

 

       6             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       7             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      16        the vote.

 

      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      19        approved -715.

 

      20             -716, we'll continue that public hearing

 

      21        and take no further action.

 

      22             We will open -717 and -718.

 

      23             We have John Feeney for -717 and -718.

 

      24             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      25             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  John Feeney, 10878 Scott

 

 

 

 

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       1        Mill Road.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're here for questions

 

       3        only?

 

       4             MR. FEENEY:  Just here to provide answers

 

       5        for any questions council may have.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're a kind man.

 

       7             Seeing no questions, we will close that

 

       8        public hearing.

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Hold on.

 

      12             The bill has been moved and seconded.

 

      13             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      16        ballot.

 

      17             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      18             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       2        the vote.

 

       3             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       5        approved -717.

 

       6             -718.  Get someone to move the bill.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      10        seconded.

 

      11             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      14        ballot.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      25        the vote.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       3        approved -718.

 

       4             Sir, hold on.

 

       5             Mr. Webb.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Mr. Chairman, thank you,

 

       7        Mr. Chairman.

 

       8             Mr. Feeney, I have a question to ask of you

 

       9        or a favor to ask of you.

 

      10             MR. FEENEY:  Certainly.

 

      11             MR. WEBB:  You're probably the only

 

      12        constituent that I have that likes me right now,

 

      13        so speak well of me in Mandarin.  Okay?

 

      14             Thank you very much.

 

      15             MR. FEENEY:  It must be a difficult evening

 

      16        for you tonight.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  See, sir, you've a key that

 

      18        brevity always gets you what you want here.

 

      19             MR. FEENEY:  Thank you, gentlemen.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  -719, -720, we will

 

      21        open those public hearings.

 

      22             We have Alberta Hipps on both.

 

      23             (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Hipps.

 

      25             MS. HIPPS:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret Street.

 

       2             -719 is the land use change, and -720 is

 

       3        the companion zoning.

 

       4             This is property located on Old Kings

 

       5        Road.  It's actually, historically, the property

 

       6        that my parents had a fuel oil company on years

 

       7        ago.  It's located next to a JEA large

 

       8        substation, industrial look.

 

       9             And I appreciate your support.  We have the

 

      10        support of the Planning Department and Planning

 

      11        Commission.

 

      12             Thank you.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.

 

      14             Seeing no further speakers, we'll close the

 

      15        public hearing.

 

      16             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      18             Move the amendment.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  On -719 there's just a bill.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      21             MR. JOOST:  Second.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no discussion on the

 

      23        bill, please open ballot.

 

      24             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      25             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       9        the vote.

 

      10             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      12        approved -719.

 

      13             -720.

 

      14             MR. JOOST:  Move the amendment.

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been

 

      17        moved.

 

      18             Can we hear the amendment, please.

 

      19             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment consists of the

 

      20        following conditions:

 

      21             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

      22        be subject to the original legal description

 

      23        dated November 28, 2007."

 

      24             Condition number 2, "The development shall

 

      25        be subject to the original written description

 

 

 

 

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       1        dated November 28, 2007."

 

       2             Condition number 3, "The development shall

 

       3        be subject to the original site plan dated

 

       4        October 17, 2007."

 

       5             Condition number 4, "The development shall

 

       6        subject to" -- "be in compliance with the

 

       7        Development Services memorandum dated

 

       8        August 27th, 2008, or as otherwise approved by

 

       9        the FDOT and the Planning and Development

 

      10        Department."

 

      11             Condition number 5, "Property

 

      12        identification signage shall be limited to one

 

      13        internally- or externally-illuminated monument

 

      14        sign not to exceed 150 square feet in area and

 

      15        20 feet in height.  The monument sign shall be

 

      16        at least 200 feet from the north residential

 

      17        property line.

 

      18             "Wall signs shall not exceed 10 percent of

 

      19        the occupancy frontage or respective side of the

 

      20        building abutting a public right-of-way.  Total

 

      21        sign area on the site shall not exceed that area

 

      22        otherwise allowed by code."

 

      23             Number 6 and finally, "Buffered trees along

 

      24        the north property line shall be three-inch

 

      25        minimum caliper.  Existing trees along the north

 

 

 

 

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       1        property line and extending 60 feet into the

 

       2        property shall remain undisturbed.  The property

 

       3        shall otherwise be subject to and be in

 

       4        compliance with all provisions of the zoning

 

       5        code, including Part 6, parking, and Part 12,

 

       6        landscape and tree protection."

 

       7             That concludes the amendment.

 

       8             MS. HIPPS:  Yes.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Hipps is nodding that

 

      10        she's in agreement with those amendments.

 

      11             Okay.  All in favor of the amendment

 

      12        signify by saying aye.

 

      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      17        approved the amendment.

 

      18             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved

 

      21        seconded as amended.

 

      22             No discussion on the bill, please open the

 

      23        ballot.

 

      24             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      25             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       9        the vote.

 

      10             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      12        approved -720.

 

      13             Let's take about a five-minute break.

 

      14             (Brief recess.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're back.

 

      16             Bottom of page 14, 2008-766, we will open

 

      17        the public hearing.

 

      18             Seeing no speakers, close that public

 

      19        hearing.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      21             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendments are moved and

 

      23        seconded.

 

      24             Planning Department, let's hear this

 

      25        amendment.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. WEBB:  The Planning Department is not

 

       2        here.

 

       3             MR. HOLT:  Mr. Crofts, please come to the

 

       4        council chambers.

 

       5             MS. ELLER:  For -766 through -770, these

 

       6        are all semiannual adoption amendments; however,

 

       7        the council had already approved them as small

 

       8        scales.

 

       9             When we send them over to DCA, they changed

 

      10        the rules on us.  And so for this batch that had

 

      11        already been sent to DCA, they permitted us to

 

      12        just lump them into the adoption semiannuals

 

      13        that are also before you tonight.

 

      14             The amendments repeal the small scale

 

      15        ordinances that you already approved, so that

 

      16        way we don't have a small scale and a semiannual

 

      17        on the same piece of property.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  And so we don't drag out the

 

      19        next four, that amendment goes for the next four

 

      20        as well?

 

      21             MS. ELLER:  Correct.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.

 

      23             MR. JOOST:  Move the amendment.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

 

 

 

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       1        and seconded.

 

       2             All in favor signify by saying aye.

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       7        approved the bill.

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      11        seconded as an amendment.

 

      12             Seeing no questions, open the ballot.

 

      13             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      14             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      23        the vote.

 

      24             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

 

 

 

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       1        approved -766 as amended.

 

       2             Top of page 7 -- top of page 15, -767, we

 

       3        will open the public hearing.

 

       4             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have Charles Mann for

 

       6        questions.

 

       7             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, questions only.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       9             MR. MANN:  Charles Mann, representing the

 

      10        property owner.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  And no questions for you,

 

      12        close the public hearing.

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  Move the amendment.

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

      16        and seconded, and we heard what it is.

 

      17             All in favor say aye.

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      22        approved the amendment.

 

      23             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

 

 

 

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       1        seconded as amended.

 

       2             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot.

 

       3             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       4             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      13        the vote.

 

      14             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      16        approved -767.

 

      17             -768, we'll open the public hearing.

 

      18             We have John Simpson.

 

      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sir, are you here for

 

      21        questions only?

 

      22             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  John Simpson, 8144

 

      23        Colonnade Court West, and I'm here for questions

 

      24        only.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're a good man.

 

 

 

 

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       1             We'll close the public hearing.

 

       2             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

       5        and seconded.

 

       6             All in favor.

 

       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      11             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      13        seconded as amended.

 

      14             Open the ballot.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      25        the vote.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       3        approve -768.

 

       4             -769, open the public hearing.

 

       5             Charles Mann, questions only.

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       7             Close the public hearing.

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

      11        and seconded.

 

      12             All in favor.

 

      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      19        seconded as amended.

 

      20             No questions, open the ballot.

 

      21             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      22             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       6        the vote.

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Mann, thank you very

 

       9        much.

 

      10             MR. MANN:  Thank you.

 

      11             I've got the next one too, sir.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  -770, Mr. Mann, questions

 

      13        only.

 

      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  No questions, close the

 

      16        public hearing.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment is moved and

 

      20        seconded.

 

      21             All in favor.

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

 

 

 

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       1        approved the --

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       5        seconded as amended.

 

       6             Please open the ballot.

 

       7             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       8             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      17        the vote.

 

      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      20        approved -770.

 

      21             MR. MANN:  Thank you.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      23             Top of page 16, we will open the public

 

      24        hearing for -771 and -772.

 

      25             We have Ms. Nancy Kilgo for questions only.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. KILGO:  Yes.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no questions,

 

       3        we will close that public hearing and we're

 

       4        going to defer both of those bills.

 

       5             I'm deferring this thing because I actually

 

       6        have some concerns about this impact of this

 

       7        project in my district and there's several

 

       8        issues about mitigation.

 

       9             So there are some things I need to look at,

 

      10        and so I think we'll probably bring this thing

 

      11        back in about six months when the land use goes

 

      12        through again.

 

      13             52, we will open the public hearing, which

 

      14        is 2008-773.

 

      15             No speakers.

 

      16             We'll close that public hearing.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      19             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  I've got a card.  I'm sorry.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did you really want to

 

      22        speak?

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  No, but this is a land use map

 

      24        amendment, and we've agreed to an asterisk on

 

      25        there relating to limitation of the development

 

 

 

 

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       1        size to solve an issue with the DOT.  So you

 

       2        need to amend it to include the asterisk,

 

       3        please.

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  So moved.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Can you fill out a

 

       6        card, Mr. Harden?

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  I did.  I don't know where

 

       8        they -- it was hours ago, but I handed them all

 

       9        in.

 

      10             I'll fill them out, yes.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, sir.

 

      12             We'll close the public hearing.

 

      13             Can we hear the amendment?

 

      14             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.

 

      15             The amendment is basically to maximize the

 

      16        development to 5,041,000 square feet of light

 

      17        industrial use and related uses.

 

      18             MR. HARDEN:  I'm sorry.  Say that one more

 

      19        time.

 

      20             MR. CROFTS:  -773, the amendment is to put

 

      21        a development cap or maximum of 5,041,000 square

 

      22        feet of light industrial and related use.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Yeah, 5,041,400 square feet.

 

      24             MR. CROFTS:  -400, yes.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're good with it?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, sir.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  All in favor of the

 

       3        amendment.

 

       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      10        seconded as amended.

 

      11             Any questions on the bill?

 

      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      14        ballot.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      25        the vote.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

       3        approved -776 as amended.

 

       4             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden --

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  -773 as amended.

 

       6             -774, open the public hearing.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  This is the companion PUD.

 

       8        And in light of the asterisk, we want to amend

 

       9        the written description to also limit it -- the

 

      10        written description and the site plan, to limit

 

      11        it also to the 5,041,400 square feet.  So there

 

      12        would be a written description dated today, site

 

      13        plan dated today, thus the conditions would be

 

      14        subject to the revised written description dated

 

      15        October 7th, 2008.  The development shall be

 

      16        subject to the revised site plan dated

 

      17        October 7th.

 

      18             The only changes to those are to cap the

 

      19        development at the number included in the

 

      20        asterisk.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Is that it?

 

      22             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, sir.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      24             We'll close that public hearing.

 

      25             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Planning Department.

 

       3             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment is:

 

       4             Condition number 1:  "The development shall

 

       5        be subject to the original legal description

 

       6        dated July 22nd, 2008."

 

       7             Condition number 2, "The development shall

 

       8        be subject to the revised written description

 

       9        dated October 7th, 2008."

 

      10             Number 3, "The development shall be subject

 

      11        to the revised site plan dated October 7th,

 

      12        2008."

 

      13             Number 4, "The development shall be subject

 

      14        to the review and approval of the FDOT, subject

 

      15        to their memorandum dated September 12th, 2008,

 

      16        or as otherwise approved by the Planning and

 

      17        Development Department."

 

      18             And 5th and lastly, "The maximum height for

 

      19        any warehouse structure shall be 60 feet."

 

      20             Thank you.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, did that also include

 

      22        that --

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, he read the correct

 

      24        thing.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, then that

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        sounds good.

 

       2             All in favor.

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       6             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill is moved and

 

       9        seconded as amended.

 

      10             Any discussion on -774 as amended?

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      13        ballot.

 

      14             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      24        the vote.

 

      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       2        approved 2008-774.

 

       3             We will open -775, -776.  And we have

 

       4        Ms. Johnston.

 

       5             (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)

 

       6             MS. JOHNSTON:  Paige Johnston, 1301

 

       7        Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the

 

       8        applicant.

 

       9             We will rely on the Planning Department

 

      10        staff report, and I will stand by for questions.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're a good woman.

 

      12             Close the public hearing.

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      16        seconded.

 

      17             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      20        ballot.

 

      21             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      22             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       6        the vote.

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       9        approved -775.

 

      10             -776, we'll continue that public hearing

 

      11        and take no further action.

 

      12             We will open -777 and -778.

 

      13             MS. JOHNSTON:  Paige Johnston, 1301

 

      14        Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the

 

      15        applicant.

 

      16             We will rely on the Planning Department

 

      17        report and stand by for questions.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Very good.

 

      19             We'll close -777.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      21             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      23        seconded.

 

      24             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           312

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       2        ballot.

 

       3             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       4             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      13        the vote.

 

      14             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      16        approved -777.

 

      17             -778, we'll continue that public hearing

 

      18        and take no further action.

 

      19             MS. JOHNSTON:  Thank you.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 18.  We'll open

 

      21        the public hearing for -779 and -780.

 

      22             We have -- looks like John Hart -- Justin

 

      23        Hart.

 

      24             Come on down.

 

      25             (Mr. Hart approaches the podium.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. HART:  I'll save it for later if

 

       2        there's no rebuttals.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

       4             No other speakers, we'll close that public

 

       5        hearing.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       9        seconded.

 

      10             No discussion, open the ballot.

 

      11             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      12             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      21        the vote.

 

      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven years, zero nays.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      24        approved -779.

 

      25             -780.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           314

 

 

       1             We'll close that public hearing.

 

       2             MR. HOLT:  Move the bill.

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       5        seconded.

 

       6             Any discussion on the bill?

 

       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       9        ballot.

 

      10             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      11             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      20        the vote.

 

      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      23        approved -780.

 

      24             Thank you, sir.

 

      25             MR. HART:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           315

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  -781 and -782, we'll open

 

       2        that public hearing.

 

       3             Mr. Hart, anything?

 

       4             MR. HART:  Answer questions.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're a good man.

 

       6             We will close that public hearing.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      10        seconded.

 

      11             Any discussion on that bill?

 

      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      14        ballot.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      25        the vote.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       3        approved -781.

 

       4             -782.

 

       5             We will close that public hearing.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been

 

       9        moved.

 

      10             Planning Department, can we hear what the

 

      11        amendment is.

 

      12             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment is as follows:

 

      13             Condition number 1:  "The development shall

 

      14        be subject to the original legal description

 

      15        dated July 3rd, 2008."

 

      16             Number 2, "The development shall be subject

 

      17        to the original written description dated

 

      18        July 3rd, 2008."

 

      19             Condition number 3, "The development shall

 

      20        be subject to the original site plan dated

 

      21        August 8, 2008."

 

      22             Condition number 4, "The development shall

 

      23        be subject to the review and approval of the

 

      24        Development Services Division, pursuant to their

 

      25        memorandum dated September 3rd, 2008, and the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           317

 

 

       1        Transportation Planning Division memorandum

 

       2        dated September 12, 2008, or as otherwise

 

       3        approved by the Planning and Development

 

       4        Department."

 

       5             Condition number 5, "No alcohol-related

 

       6        uses shall be allowed within the PUD."

 

       7             Condition 6, "No outside storage of

 

       8        shipping containers or truck trailers shall be

 

       9        allowed in the buffer areas, minimizing any

 

      10        impact from industrial noise on neighboring

 

      11        properties."

 

      12             Continuing, "In order to attenuate the

 

      13        potential noise impacts, no loading dock bays

 

      14        may be visible when viewed from an adjoining

 

      15        property having a residential use or residential

 

      16        zoning."

 

      17             Condition number 7, "Architectural

 

      18        elevations shall be consistent with Section 122

 

      19        of the Jacksonville Design Guidelines and Best

 

      20        Practices Handbook, specifically 122(A)."

 

      21             Number 8, "The Duval Road right-of-way

 

      22        buffer shall have a minimum of one shade tree or

 

      23        evergreen tree for every 25 linear feet of

 

      24        frontage and a minimum of three understory

 

      25        trees, canopy pines or palms for every 80 linear

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           318

 

 

       1        feet of frontage.  At no time shall the number

 

       2        of pines or palms exceed 50 percent of the total

 

       3        number of required understory trees.

 

       4             "Additionally, 50 percent of the total

 

       5        number of all understory trees, excluding pines,

 

       6        provided within the right-of-way buffer must be

 

       7        a continuous evergreen species.  Right-of-way

 

       8        tree plantings shall follow the Design

 

       9        Guidelines and Best Practices Handbook,

 

      10        Section 15.11."

 

      11             Condition number 9, "Perimeter landscaping

 

      12        and fencing shall be provided in accordance with

 

      13        Section 15.20 of the Design and Best Practices

 

      14        Handbook."

 

      15             Number 10, "All screening shall be visually

 

      16        integrated into the overall character theme and

 

      17        architectural design of the project in

 

      18        accordance with Section 16 of the Design

 

      19        Guidelines and Best Practices Handbook."

 

      20             Number 11, "The lighting design of the

 

      21        project should be designed to visually enhance

 

      22        the overall aesthetic appearance of the project

 

      23        and the streetscape, provide safe and efficient

 

      24        lighting for both pedestrian and vehicular users

 

      25        and avoid obtrusive light overspill onto

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           319

 

 

       1        adjacent properties."

 

       2             12th and finally, "Architectural

 

       3        elevations, the landscape plan and lighting

 

       4        design plan, including a photometrics plan, pole

 

       5        and fixture schedule, and a statement certifying

 

       6        that the design meets all design guideline

 

       7        compliance standards for the project shall be

 

       8        submitted for review and approval by the

 

       9        Planning and Development Department at the time

 

      10        of verification of substantial compliance."

 

      11             That's it.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is this development close to

 

      13        San Marco Preservation as well?

 

      14             Mr. Hart, are you in compliance with all

 

      15        those amendments as read?

 

      16             MR. HART:  I'm just trying to, you know, do

 

      17        a good development and make it fit into the

 

      18        community.

 

      19             But, yes, unbelievably, I concur.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you very much.

 

      21             Mr. Holt.

 

      22             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      23             I just need to quickly declare ex-parte

 

      24        with Mr. Hart and several of the neighbors close

 

      25        by.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             I'm sorry, Shannon.  I don't know the date,

 

       2        but it was about a month ago.  It was back in

 

       3        September.

 

       4             Thank you.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       6             Does anybody have any questions?

 

       7             MR. HOLT:  We worked on all those wonderful

 

       8        conditions.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do you have any questions of

 

      10        Mr. Holt on his ex-parte communication?

 

      11             MR. CLARK:  Not at this time.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      13             Okay.  The amendment, all in favor.

 

      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Moved and seconded as

 

      20        amended.

 

      21             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      24        ballot.

 

      25             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           321

 

 

       1             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      10        the vote.

 

      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action --

 

      13             MR. HART:  Appreciate your support.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved

 

      15        -782 as amended.

 

      16             Top of page 19, -783 and -784.  We will

 

      17        open those public hearings.

 

      18             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      19             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden.

 

      20             This is a trans- -- I mean, an adoption

 

      21        round.  It's already been to DCA and back.

 

      22             The next one is the PUD, which we're going

 

      23        to defer pending some community meeting.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now, you are going to fill

 

      25        out three cards that we don't have?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  Yeah, I'll fill out one on all

 

       2        of them if you don't have any of them.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're a good man.

 

       4             Seeing no questions of Mr. Harden, we will

 

       5        close -783.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  -783 has been moved and

 

       9        seconded.

 

      10             And discussion on the bill?

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      13        ballot.

 

      14             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      24        the vote.

 

      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       2        approved -783 as -- -783 as moved.

 

       3             -784, we'll continue that and take no

 

       4        further action.

 

       5             -785 and -786, we will open both public

 

       6        hearings.

 

       7             We have Howard Smith.

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  He's gone.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  He's gone.  Okay.

 

      10             We will close that public hearing, seeing

 

      11        the applicant is not here.

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      13             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  We moved the bill and

 

      15        seconded it.

 

      16             Anybody want to make any amendments to

 

      17        this?

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      20        ballot.

 

      21             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      22             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       6        the vote.

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       9        approved -785 as not amended.

 

      10             -786.

 

      11             We will close that public hearing.

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      15        seconded.

 

      16             Anybody wishing to make an amendment of

 

      17        this bill?

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      20        ballot.

 

      21             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      22             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

       6        the vote.

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       9        approved -786.

 

      10             Anybody want to move to reconsider -786?

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We'll move on.

 

      13             Top of page 20.  We will open -787 and

 

      14        -788.

 

      15             We have Mr. Birchfield.

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  Can I go first?

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  I got a card from

 

      18        Mr. Birchfield.

 

      19             MR. HARDEN:  I know.  I'm sorry.

 

      20             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  I'll give Mr. Harden my

 

      21        power of attorney as long as it relates to

 

      22        River Oaks Road.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden, go ahead.

 

      24             MR. HARDEN:  Before I get to Mr. Birchfield

 

      25        and I's issue, this is another text amendment

 

 

 

 

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       1        where there is an asterisk limiting the amount

 

       2        of square footage.  I believe it's 4,800,000.

 

       3        Mr. Crofts has the language for the asterisk.

 

       4             MR. CROFTS:  If you'd like, I'll be glad to

 

       5        provide it as an amendment information if you

 

       6        want.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Do it as an

 

       8        amendment, then.

 

       9             MR. CROFTS:  Okay.  Shall I wait, or you

 

      10        want me to do it?

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  Wait.

 

      12             What?

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  I don't mind if he does it now

 

      14        because then we got -- I want to discuss the

 

      15        buffer issue.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Oh, okay.  Go ahead and read

 

      17        them.

 

      18             MR. CROFTS:  Okay.  The amendment will be:

 

      19             "The development shall be limited to

 

      20        4,800,000 square feet of light industrial and

 

      21        supporting uses."

 

      22             That's it.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Correct.

 

      24             There is a substitute condition 8 we would

 

      25        propose as an accommodation between

 

 

 

 

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       1        Mr. Birchfield and I.

 

       2             As you recall, he represents a client who

 

       3        owns an RV park adjoining our parcel.  The

 

       4        Planning Department had recommend a buffer that

 

       5        included a 40-foot natural area, a 45-foot berm,

 

       6        and then a 100-foot parking lot to the

 

       7        building.

 

       8             The adjoining parcel owner preferred a

 

       9        larger area of natural growth, not have a berm

 

      10        and have a wall instead, and we have no

 

      11        objection to that.

 

      12             Mr. Birchfield and I have prepared a

 

      13        condition which does that, and we would like to

 

      14        substitute that as condition number 8.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  On the rezoning?

 

      16             MR. HARDEN:  On the rezoning, yes.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      18             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, thank you.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Birchfield.

 

      20             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  I've got plenty of copies

 

      21        if anybody needs them.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  If you give it to Marilyn,

 

      23        she'll pass it around.

 

      24             Would you like to add anything in your

 

      25        three minutes, Mr. Birchfield?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  I would not.  I approve of

 

       2        all that.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing that, we will

 

       4        close the public hearing.

 

       5             Did you have anything else, Mr. Harden?

 

       6             MR. HARDEN:  I do not.

 

       7             Thank you.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We will close the

 

       9        public hearing on -787 and -788.

 

      10             Can we move the amendment?

 

      11             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      12             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Can we hear what the

 

      14        amendment is?  You already told me?

 

      15             MR. CROFTS:  Yes.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor.

 

      17             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action --

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      22             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you approved

 

      24        the amendment.

 

      25             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been moved and seconded

 

       3        as amended.

 

       4             Any discussion on -786 as -- -787 as

 

       5        amended?

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       8        ballot.

 

       9             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      10             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      19        the vote.

 

      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      22        approved -787.

 

      23             -788, we've closed that public hearing,

 

      24        and we have --

 

      25             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's hear the amendment.

 

       2             Well, actually, let's do the ex-parte.

 

       3             Mr. Joost.

 

       4             MR. JOOST:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       5             On September 30th, in addition to other

 

       6        meetings that I've already declared, I had a

 

       7        meeting with Justin Hart and Mr. Bill

 

       8        Birchfield.

 

       9             And on October 3rd, I had a phone call with

 

      10        Mr. Harden.

 

      11             And for those of you interested, we

 

      12        discussed the project and the buffer issues.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      14             Mr. Holt.

 

      15             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      16             Today at about four o'clock, I spoke with

 

      17        Mr. Harden and Mr. Birchfield about buffers on

 

      18        the property.

 

      19             Thank you.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      21             Mr. Clark.

 

      22             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      23             On September 23rd, I talked with

 

      24        Paul Harden about buffers and berms and trees

 

      25        and specifics of those things.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       2             Dr. Gaffney.

 

       3             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       4             On September 23rd, I spoke with Paul Harden

 

       5        approximately around -- I guess approximately

 

       6        around one o'clock.

 

       7             And then on October 7, today, I spoke with

 

       8        Mr. Bill Birchfield and Justin Hart in reference

 

       9        to -- both of them were in reference to buffers.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      11             And I've actually spoke to both the

 

      12        applicant and the representative of the

 

      13        community, the RV parking lot.

 

      14             And one more thing I want to say is, I want

 

      15        to thank both parties for actually coming to a

 

      16        resolution before this came before the council.

 

      17        It's always much better when you guys can work

 

      18        it out before it comes here.

 

      19             I appreciate you guys giving it the time

 

      20        and effort.  We all appreciate the fact that you

 

      21        didn't keep us here for another four-and-a-half

 

      22        hours.

 

      23             That all being said, the amendments -- have

 

      24        we heard the amendments on -788?

 

      25             MR. CROFTS:  We have not.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

       2             MR. CROFTS:  I will read them into the

 

       3        record, if you please.

 

       4             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

       5        be subject to the original legal description

 

       6        dated July 22, 2008."

 

       7             Condition number 2, "The development shall

 

       8        be subject to the original written description

 

       9        dated July 11, 2008."

 

      10             Condition number 3, "The development shall

 

      11        be subject to the original site plan dated

 

      12        July 2008."

 

      13             Number 4 --

 

      14             MR. HARDEN:  Before you go further, will --

 

      15             Shannon, I will amend that written

 

      16        description in site plan to change it to the 4.8

 

      17        so it will be consistent.  So we can reference a

 

      18        written description dated today that will change

 

      19        just the number of square feet and, likewise,

 

      20        the site plan, like we did on the other one.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that okay with the

 

      22        Planning Department?

 

      23             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let it be so.

 

      25             MR. CROFTS:  Continuing right now on

 

 

 

 

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       1        condition number 4, "The development shall be

 

       2        subject to the review and approval of the

 

       3        Development Services Division, pursuant to the

 

       4        memorandum dated" -- "their memorandum dated

 

       5        September 16, 2006, except for comment 3, and

 

       6        the Transportation Planning Division memorandum

 

       7        dated September 12, 2008, or as otherwise

 

       8        approved by the FDOT and the Planning and

 

       9        Development Department."

 

      10             Condition number 5 -- condition number 5

 

      11        originally has been deleted now by the new

 

      12        language -- or continuing language.

 

      13             Condition number 5 would be the following:

 

      14        "Prior to final engineering approval, all

 

      15        remaining portions of the remaining property

 

      16        under the PUD ordinance 2005-543, currently

 

      17        owned by the applicant and identified as

 

      18        parcel 2 and parcel 3 on the conceptual site

 

      19        plan, shall be recorded as a conservation

 

      20        easement and the City shall initiate a land use

 

      21        amendment to conservation.  No improvements

 

      22        other than required utility, storm water ponds,

 

      23        and the entrance road shall be permitted."

 

      24             Condition number 6, "Truck loading bays for

 

      25        the southeast building, building number 7, shall

 

 

 

 

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       1        not be oriented eastward towards the Flamingo

 

       2        Lake Resort."

 

       3             Condition number 7, which has been now

 

       4        revised with this new language that was recently

 

       5        worked out will be as follows:  "Building 7

 

       6        shall be constructed at least 185 feet from the

 

       7        current property line of the Flamingo Lake RV

 

       8        Park.

 

       9             "The owner shall construct an 8-foot-high,

 

      10        solid face, uninterrupted wall parallel to the

 

      11        Flamingo Lake property line at the location, not

 

      12        less than 75 feet from the Flamingo Lake

 

      13        property line, after construction starts on

 

      14        building 7 when Flamingo Lake completes

 

      15        construction of an 8-foot visual barrier along

 

      16        its property line," period.

 

      17             "The owners shall notify Flamingo Lake

 

      18        when the construction permits for building 7 are

 

      19        issued.  The area between the Flamingo Lake

 

      20        property line and the wall to be constructed

 

      21        shall remain in its current state.

 

      22             "To allow for maintenance of the buffer

 

      23        area, the wall may not end more than 300 feet

 

      24        from the south property line of the project.

 

      25        The Wall shall continue from a point not further

 

 

 

 

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       1        from" -- not further than -- "from 300 feet of

 

       2        the south property line of the project and

 

       3        continue north to a point on the westerly

 

       4        extension of the northerly right-of-way line of

 

       5        Newcomb Road.  However, the south end shall be

 

       6        fence and gated."

 

       7             Continuing, "There shall be no truck

 

       8        parking or traffic within the 185-foot setback

 

       9        between Flamingo Lake and building 7.  However,

 

      10        automobile parking and traffic shall be

 

      11        allowed.  Bay door construction shall be

 

      12        prohibited on the easterlymost wall of

 

      13        building 7."

 

      14             Continuing on condition 8, "All light

 

      15        fixtures, including security lighting, shall be

 

      16        cutoff fixtures and should be incorporated as an

 

      17        integral design element that complements the

 

      18        design of the building and project through its

 

      19        design style, materials, and color.

 

      20             "All cutoff fixtures shall not have more

 

      21        than one percent of lamp lumens above the

 

      22        horizontal.  All sag lenses, drop lenses and

 

      23        convex lenses shall be prohibited.

 

      24             "Illumination levels at the property line

 

      25        shall not exceed one-half footcandle where

 

 

 

 

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       1        adjacent to residential areas or right-of-ways

 

       2        and one footcandle where adjacent to

 

       3        nonresidential uses.

 

       4             "A lighting plan showing the photometrics,

 

       5        pole height and fixtures shall be submitted,

 

       6        subject to the review and approval of the

 

       7        Planning and Development Department at the time

 

       8        of verification of substantial compliance to the

 

       9        PUD."

 

      10             Condition number 9, "Prior to the

 

      11        verification of substantial compliance approval,

 

      12        a traffic study shall be provided for the review

 

      13        and approval of the City of Jacksonville

 

      14        Planning and Development Department."

 

      15             Condition 10 and finally and lastly, "All

 

      16        off-site roadway improvements other than those

 

      17        that are considered a part of the fair share

 

      18        development agreement must be completed prior to

 

      19        the issuance of a certificate of occupancy."

 

      20             That's it.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  God bless you guys for

 

      22        figuring that out before you brought it here.

 

      23             Are you in approval of all that?

 

      24             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, sir.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

 

 

 

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       1             All in favor.

 

       2             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       6             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       8        seconded as amended.

 

       9             Seeing no discussion, please open the

 

      10        ballot.

 

      11             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      12             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      21        the vote.

 

      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      24        approved -788 as amended.

 

      25             -789 and -790, we'll open those public

 

 

 

 

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       1        hearings.

 

       2             We have Richard Kravitz for both.

 

       3             (Mr. Kravitz approaches the podium.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Brevity is a good thing,

 

       5        Mr. Kravitz.

 

       6             How are you doing?

 

       7             MR. KRAVITZ:  Good.

 

       8             Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and

 

       9        members of the committee.

 

      10             I will be brief.

 

      11             Richard Kravitz, 1650 Margaret Street, for

 

      12        the owner.

 

      13             This is an ordinance adopting the

 

      14        semiannual amendment to the future land use

 

      15        series at Owens Road and Ranch Road, LI to CGC.

 

      16             I'll rely on the staff report, do want to

 

      17        read just a few things in the record.

 

      18             It does have an asterisk, so we'll have to

 

      19        deal with that.  And we're in complete

 

      20        compliance with the asterisk.

 

      21             It's consistent with the objectives and

 

      22        policies of the 2010 plan, the strategic

 

      23        regional policy plan.  It's consistent with the

 

      24        North Jax shared vision plan and master plan.

 

      25        Has the support of the DCA, the Planning

 

 

 

 

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       1        Department, the Planning Commission, the

 

       2        Northside CPAC, and Mr. Birchfield and

 

       3        Mr. Harden.

 

       4             No, I'm only kidding.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       6             Any questions of Mr. Kravitz?

 

       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  We will close the public

 

       9        hearing for -8 and -9.

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      11             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  We've moved the amendment.

 

      13             Ms. Eller just told me we can just

 

      14        reference the memo as printed, and I think the

 

      15        applicant is fine with that because he's read

 

      16        the memos as printed.

 

      17             MR. KRAVITZ:  Yes.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.

 

      19             All in favor.

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      23             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        seconded as amended.

 

       2             Any discussion?

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       5        ballot.

 

       6             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       7             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      16        the vote.

 

      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      19        approved -789.

 

      20             -790, move the amendment.

 

      21             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

      22             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment is moved and

 

      24        seconded.

 

      25             Same thing, reference the printed

 

 

 

 

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       1        material.

 

       2             You're fine with that?

 

       3             MR. KRAVITZ:  Yes.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.

 

       5             All in favor.

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      12        seconded as amended.

 

      13             It's a good thing because there's a whole

 

      14        lot of amendments for both of these.

 

      15             Seeing none, please open the ballot.

 

      16             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      17             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

 

 

 

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       1        the vote.

 

       2             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       4        approved -790 as amended.

 

       5             MR. KRAVITZ:  Thank you very much.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

       7             Top of page 21, -791 and -792.  We will

 

       8        open both of those public hearings.

 

       9             We have Mr. Hainline for questions only.

 

      10             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)

 

      11             MR. HAINLINE:  T.R. Hainline, 1301

 

      12        Riverplace Boulevard.

 

      13             I'm happy to not go into any kind of

 

      14        presentation, except I do want to make sure the

 

      15        conditions are correct.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  We will have them read.

 

      17             MR. HAINLINE:  Okay.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We will close both

 

      19        those public hearings.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      21             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendments have been

 

      23        moved and seconded.

 

      24             Let's hear the conditions.

 

      25             MR. CROFTS:  For the record, the condition

 

 

 

 

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       1        for -791 is as follows -- yeah, the amendment is

 

       2        as follows:

 

       3             "Any revision to the Thomas Creek land use

 

       4        plan as noted in this policy will require the

 

       5        developer or developers to provide a traffic

 

       6        impact analysis associated with the proposed and

 

       7        existing development.

 

       8             "The methodology of this study must have

 

       9        the concurrence of the Florida Department of

 

      10        Transportation."

 

      11             That language will be added to policy 3.16

 

      12        of the -- of the condition -- of the

 

      13        comprehensive plan.

 

      14             Thank you.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Are you okay with those

 

      16        amendments?

 

      17             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.

 

      18             That was requested by FDOT.  They want to

 

      19        make sure we don't exceed the asterisk levels of

 

      20        development that we proposed without doing that

 

      21        study, and we agree to that.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  All in favor.

 

      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

 

 

 

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                                                           344

 

 

       1             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       2             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       4        seconded as amended.

 

       5             Any discussion on -791 as amended?

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

       8        ballot.

 

       9             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      10             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      19        the vote.

 

      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      22        approved -791.

 

      23             -792.

 

      24             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      25             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

 

 

 

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                                                           345

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

       2        and seconded.

 

       3             Can we hear the amendment?

 

       4             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir.

 

       5             Condition number 1 --

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Hold on a second.  I think

 

       7        we've got some ex-parte.

 

       8             Mr. Clark.

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      10             I'd like to declare ex-parte communication

 

      11        with Wyman Duggan on the 16th of September.

 

      12             We discussed the mixed use and the support

 

      13        of the neighbors in this project specifically.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      15             Mr. Joost.

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.

 

      17             I too declare ex-parte communication on

 

      18        September 16th.  I had a meeting with Mr. Duggan

 

      19        and we discussed various aspects of the project.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      21             Dr. Gaffney.

 

      22             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      23             I too wish to declare ex-parte on

 

      24        September 16th.  I met with Mr. Duggan, and we

 

      25        declared -- basically we reviewed the overall

 

 

 

 

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                                                           346

 

 

       1        project.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  And I'd like to declare

 

       3        ex-parte with Mr. Hainline, and he basically

 

       4        said his project is better than Paul's.

 

       5             MR. HAINLINE:  I deny that, for the

 

       6        record.  I deny saying that, I'll put it that

 

       7        way.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let's hear the

 

       9        amendment.

 

      10             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment is as follows:

 

      11             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

      12        be subject to the original legal description

 

      13        dated August 11, 2008."

 

      14             Number 2, "The development shall be subject

 

      15        to the revised written description dated

 

      16        September 16, 2008."

 

      17             Number 3, "The development shall be subject

 

      18        to the original site plan dated August 12,

 

      19        2008."

 

      20             Number 4, "The development shall be subject

 

      21        to the review and approval of the Development

 

      22        Services memorandum dated September 4, 2008, the

 

      23        FDOT memorandum dated September 11, 2008, or as

 

      24        otherwise approved by the Planning and

 

      25        Development Department."

 

 

 

 

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                                                           347

 

 

       1             Number 5, "Prior to verification of

 

       2        substantial compliance approval, a traffic study

 

       3        shall be provided for the review and approval of

 

       4        the City of Jacksonville Planning and

 

       5        Development Department."

 

       6             We have a revised condition number 6.  "The

 

       7        buffers and building setbacks shall be provided

 

       8        in accordance with the document and accompanying

 

       9        revised site plan that's entitled Substitute for

 

      10        the Planning and Development Condition Number 6,

 

      11        and Substitute for PUD Site Plan, Exhibit E,

 

      12        both dated October 7th, 2008."

 

      13             Number 7, "All light fixtures, including

 

      14        security lighting, shall be cutoff fixtures and

 

      15        should be incorporated as an integral design

 

      16        element that complements the design of the

 

      17        building and project through its design, style,

 

      18        materials, and color.  All cutoff fixtures shall

 

      19        not have more than one percent of lamp lumens

 

      20        above horizontal.

 

      21             "Al sag lenses, drop lenses, and convex

 

      22        lenses shall be prohibited.  Illumination levels

 

      23        at the property line shall not exceed one-half

 

      24        footcandle where adjacent to residential areas

 

      25        or right-of-ways and one footcandle where

 

 

 

 

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                                                           348

 

 

       1        adjacent to nonresidential uses."

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Crofts, you've got to

 

       3        slow down a little.

 

       4             MR. CROFTS:  I will do that.

 

       5             "A lighting plan showing photometrics,

 

       6        pole height and fixtures shall be submitted,

 

       7        subject to the review and approval of the

 

       8        Planning and Development Department at the time

 

       9        of verification of substantial compliance to the

 

      10        PUD."

 

      11             Number 8 and finally, "Prior to final

 

      12        engineering approval, the airport notice zone

 

      13        acknowledgment shall be recorded and provided to

 

      14        the Planning and Development Department, JAA, or

 

      15        the U.S. Navy as appropriate.

 

      16             "The subject property is located in the JIA

 

      17        civilian notice zone, civilian school zone and

 

      18        civilian height zone, 50 feet and 150 feet, and

 

      19        should meet all requirements of the ordinance

 

      20        2008-258-E."

 

      21             That concludes the amendment.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hainline, are you okay

 

      23        with those as read?

 

      24             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir, we are.

 

      25             And I can -- I'd at least like to submit

 

 

 

 

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                                                           349

 

 

       1        this for the record (indicating).  Y'all can

 

       2        look at it if you want.

 

       3             The document that Mr. Crofts referred to as

 

       4        the substitute for condition 6 is this

 

       5        document.  And it is the result of extensive

 

       6        discussions with Planning staff, Councilwoman

 

       7        Lee, and a community meeting which Ms. Lee held

 

       8        on September 18th.  All of that focuses into

 

       9        this document, which is the substitute for

 

      10        condition 6.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      12             Ms. Eller.

 

      13             MS. ELLER:  Through the Chairman to

 

      14        Mr. Hainline, will you confirm that the site

 

      15        plan is still the original site plan dated

 

      16        August 12th?

 

      17             And this document is an attachment to your

 

      18        buffer condition, which is just about the

 

      19        buffers, and it's, in fact, dated -- mine is a

 

      20        revised date, October 1st, 2008.

 

      21             MR. HAINLINE:  Actually, Ms. Eller, this

 

      22        (indicating) would be the new site plan because

 

      23        this shows --

 

      24             MS. ELLER:  Shows both the buffers and your

 

      25        configurations?

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, that's correct.

 

       2             MS. ELLER:  Okay.  So, Mr. Chairman,

 

       3        condition 3 would be that the development is

 

       4        subject to the revised site plan dated

 

       5        October 1st, 2008, which also adds language

 

       6        regarding buffers as texturally depicted in the

 

       7        long paragraphs attached to what you just

 

       8        received.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  This is the epitome of a

 

      10        bubble plan.

 

      11             Okay.  So you're fine with that,

 

      12        Mr. Hainline?

 

      13             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Holt.

 

      15             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

      16             I need to throw in one more ex-parte.  On

 

      17        September 23rd, I spoke with Mr. Hainline and

 

      18        Mr. Duggan and Mr. Gilmore about the wonderful

 

      19        specifics of this plan.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      21             Do you have any questions -- anybody have

 

      22        any questions of Mr. Holt's ex-parte

 

      23        communication?

 

      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, I think we're

 

 

 

 

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       1        all good.

 

       2             All in favor.

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       9        seconded as amended.

 

      10             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      13        ballot.

 

      14             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      24        the vote.

 

      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       2        approved 2008-792 as amended.

 

       3             Thank you, Mr. Hainline.

 

       4             MR. HAINLINE:  Thank you.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Top of page 22, -795.

 

       6             Open.

 

       7             Close the public hearing.

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      11        seconded.

 

      12             Any discussion?

 

      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Open the ballot.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      25        the vote.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       3        approved -795.

 

       4             -796, we'll open, close the public

 

       5        hearing.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

       9        seconded.

 

      10             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      13        ballot.

 

      14             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      15             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      24        the vote.

 

      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       2        approved -796.

 

       3             -797, we'll open and close the public

 

       4        hearing.

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       6             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       7             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman, if I might.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

       9             MR. CROFTS:  Excuse me.  There's a

 

      10        technical amendment where we're changing the

 

      11        terminology.  It's just a phrase converting a

 

      12        term from "concurrency management system" to the

 

      13        more appropriate term "Capital Improvement

 

      14        Program" in the bill.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're talking -797?

 

      16             MR. CROFTS:  That's correct.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, I have an

 

      18        amendment down here for you.

 

      19             MR. CROFTS:  Okay.  I apologize.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  We opened and

 

      21        closed the public hearing.

 

      22             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      23             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment has been moved

 

      25        and seconded, and we heard the amendment.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           355

 

 

       1             All in favor.

 

       2             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       6             MR. HOLT:  Second.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Those opposed.

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  Aye.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved.

 

      10        We've got one opposed.

 

      11             We moved the bill as amended.

 

      12             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      15        ballot.

 

      16             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      17             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           356

 

 

       1        the vote.

 

       2             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       4        approved -797 as amended.

 

       5             -798, we will open and close the public

 

       6        hearing.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The bill has been moved and

 

      10        seconded.

 

      11             Any discussion on the bill?

 

      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, please open the

 

      14        ballot.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. GRAHAM:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot and record

 

      25        the vote.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           357

 

 

       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       3        approved -798.

 

       4             And if I'm not mistaken, we've handled

 

       5        everything else.

 

       6             If there's nothing to come before us, we

 

       7        are adjourned.

 

       8             (The above proceedings were adjourned at

 

       9        11:15 p.m.)

 

      10                        -   -   -

 

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           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           358

 

 

       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E

 

       2

 

       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:

 

       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :

 

       5

 

       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was

 

       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the

 

       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a

 

       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.

 

      10             Dated this 12th day of October, 2008.

 

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      14                                 Diane M. Tropia

 

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           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203