1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, June 17, 2008,
7 commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers,
8 1st Floor,
9 Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State of
10
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.
14 RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.
E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
15 ART SHAD, Committee Member.
JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
16
17 ALSO PRESENT:
18
DON REDMAN, City Council Member.
19 JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
20 FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
JASON TEAL, Office of General Counsel.
21
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
22 MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
23
- - -
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 June 17, 2008 5:00 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I hereby call the Tuesday,
5 June 17th meeting of the Land Use and Zoning
6 Committee.
7 Let the record reflect that the following
8 members are here: Councilmember Michael
9 Corrigan, Chairman; Vice Chair Clay Yarborough;
10 Councilmember Richard Clark; Councilmember Art
11 Shad; Councilmember Jack Webb. And let the
12 record reflect that Councilwoman Mia Jones has
13 an excusal.
14 We have a very busy agenda tonight. I
15 appreciate everyone's patience. I will do a
16 couple of quick reminders. One, there is no
17 public display or support or opposition. When
18 someone comes up to speak, we will make sure
19 that you have respect, and we ask that you have
20 respect for them as well.
21 And since we do have so many items on our
22 agenda, as you see your agenda getting closer,
23 if you please come down front to save us some
24 time walking down here, we sure would appreciate
25 it.
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 Having said that, Councilmembers, we are
2 ready to begin on page 2. All the items on
3 page 2 are deferred, 2005-1228, 2006-24, and
4 2006-220.
5 Page 3, top item, 2006-360 is deferred.
6 2006-658. We'll open that public hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
8 public hearing with no further action.
9 Item 6, 2007-144. We will open that public
10 hearing.
11 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
12 hearing.
13 Item 7, 2007-145. We'll open that public
14 hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
16 hearing.
17 (Mr. Redman enters the proceedings.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: We are on page 4 of your
19 agenda. All the items on page 4 are deferred:
20 2007-384, 2007-581, 2007-803.
21 Now that we've gotten to that point, I see
22 we have a visiting councilmember here.
23 Councilmember Redman has joined us this
24 afternoon.
25 Councilman Redman, I believe that you are
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 here on bill 2008-313?
2 MR. REDMAN: Yes.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: That is on page 9 of your
4 agenda, Councilmembers.
5 We will open that public hearing. We have
6 some speakers. The following people -- we have
7 some declaration for ex-parte.
8 Councilmember Clark.
9 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 I had a meeting with Tom Ingram and
11 Kyle Riva on the 10th, and we discussed the
12 location, the DRI, and the apartments.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
14
15 Councilmember Yarborough.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 2008-313, I had ex-parte at my office
18 yesterday with Tom Ingram, Coen Purvis, Alex
19 Coley and Kyle Riva to discuss the site plan and
20 impact of rezoning on surrounding properties.
21 Also, on the same day in my office with
22 Michael Herzberg to discuss the impact of the
23 rezoning to the surrounding properties.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Councilmember Webb.
2 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
3 I'd like to declare ex-parte with regard to
4 this bill as well with Mr. Michael Herzberg
5 approximately two weeks ago to discuss the
6 merits of this, as well I had -- approximately
7 two weeks ago, I had a brief conversation with
8 Paul Harden regarding the merits of this bill as
9 well.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 I'll also declare ex-parte communications
13 on June 10th. I had a meeting with Tom Ingram,
14 Coen Purvis, Alex Coley, Kyle Riva and McCarley
15
16 overview of this particular ordinance.
17 I also had ex-parte communication with
18 Mike Herzberg on June 12th, approximately 1:15
19 in the afternoon, in our world famous Green Room
20 to discuss his opposition to this project.
21 Seeing no other ex-parte communications,
22 we're ready now for our speakers.
23 Our first speaker is Alex Coley, followed
24 by Kyle Riva, followed by Tom Ingram.
25 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: And if you want to change
2 the order, that's fine. Tom, you want to come
3 first, that's fine.
4 MR. INGRAM: Thank you. Good evening.
5 Tom Ingram,
6 Suite 400, and I'm here representing the
7 applicants.
8 This is a proposed 360-unit multifamily
9 complex in the Southpoint project, also known as
10 the Interstate Business Center DRI. This
11 project was conceived in the late '70s and early
12 '80s as a suburban-style office park, kind of
13 the height of planning for its time.
14 As the years have worn on and we're now in
15 the 21st century, the strong trend has been to
16 integrate multifamily and office products
17 together so that people can work and live in
18 close proximity to one another.
19 This is a market-rate project. It's being
20 done by Epoch Properties. It's done -- who did
21
22 extension. This type of project has been found
23 in other DRIs very similar to this. In the
24 Galleria, there is the
25 that the City Council approved just a few years
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 ago to add multifamily to an office and retail
2 project.
3 Also, at Flagler Center DRI just a few
4 years ago, the City Council voted to amend that
5 DRI to add multifamily to an office and
6 industrial complex.
7 Also, in the Deerwood town -- Deerwood
8 North DRI, that project includes a variety of
9 multifamily that's under construction today at
10
11 there.
12 But at the southeast and southwest
13 quadrants, JTB and 95 now have a mix of office
14 and multifamily. This is just continuing that
15 trend.
16 There had been some opposition. There is
17 now one opponent that we are aware of. The
18 other comments have been withdrawn, and we now
19 understand that they're in support.
20 There was a memorandum that was circulated
21 anonymously, and I'd like to share that with
22 you. It was sent to some of the various office
23 develop- -- office tenants in the area. I have
24 copies here.
25 But just to say that a lot of this is
Diane M. Tropia,
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1 inaccurate. You may have seen it. It talked
2 about equating workforce with lower income
3 housing. That's simply not true. This is --
4 workforce housing is basically normal working
5 people earning below average and above average
6 income. It's the very type of people that will
7 live and work in an office product like this.
8 It does comply with the comprehensive
9 plan. We have strong support from the Planning
10 Department. It is -- it is not -- it is exempt
11 from any sort of industrial overlay zone
12 pursuant to the terms of the City's industrial
13 zoning overlay district.
14 Furthermore, even if it were applicable,
15 there are no special buffering requirements
16 between multifamily and office because the City
17 recognizes that those two uses are compatible.
18 And with that, I'll be happy to answer any
19 questions you may have, but we have passed out
20 some handouts here, various aerials, some of
21 which you have seen, but page 7 gives the best
22 overview of what the site looks like.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ingram.
25 I have several other speakers in support.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Mr. Ingram, let me ask you, is there an
2 order to the speakers in support, or you do not
3 know?
4 MR. INGRAM: Yes. The next will be
5 Kyle Riva with Epoch Properties, followed by
6 Coen Purvis, who's a planner -- he is also with
7 Hallmark Partners -- followed by Alex Coley of
8 Hallmark Partners, the principal who owns an
9 adjacent office building.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
11 MR. INGRAM: Thank you.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hey, good afternoon.
15 My name is Kyle Riva. I'm the president of
16 Epoch Properties. We're based in
17
18 have built some 31,000 market-rate apartment
19 units across the country. We've built some 15
20 to 18 projects here in
21 recent was
22 Parkway extension, about a mile and a half from
23 this particular location.
24 We're a fully integrated company. We're a
25 developer, general contractor, and management
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 company. We currently manage about 10,000
2 units.
3 What we intend to build on this project is
4 a high-quality, market-rate project with
5 substantial interior units and exterior
6 amenities, basketball courts, theaters, swimming
7 pools, et cetera, for our residents to use.
8 We very much believe that building our kind
9 of project in this type of environment next to
10 offices and nearby retail is really the right
11 thing to do. It's -- they're very complementary
12 uses and they tend to utilize the existing
13 infrastructure much more efficiently.
14 The traffic trips are going in opposite
15 directions during peak periods, and there's
16 less -- you drive through the Southpoint
17 business park on the weekends and nights, you'll
18 see that those roads aren't being utilized.
19 With the community there, that's when -- an
20 apartment community, that's when those roads
21 would be utilized.
22 But more importantly, I believe the City
23 staff has been looking at this for a long time,
24 and I believe they're in support of our
25 project. And then also we have support letters
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 from the National Association of Industrial and
2 Office Parks, and also from the National
3 Multihousing Conference, both saying that this
4 is exactly the type of smart growth that they
5 want to see.
6 As far as we can tell, most of the
7 neighbors are in favor of our development and in
8 support of us. Once we got past the
9 disinformation that they've had, they've now
10 written retraction letters and are in support.
11 We seem to only have one dissenter who has
12 been pretty vocal. And when we tried to meet
13 with him, he said, "Look. It's nothing
14 personal. We'd be against anything you're
15 developing here. This is just business."
16 Well, to me, this business is personal, and
17 I believe your guys' business of running this
18 city is personal as well. And I think the
19 citizens expect it to be. And what we're all
20 after here is smart growth in the city of
21
22 this development is smart growth for the city.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 I have Alex Coley, and J.J. Conners, and
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Coen Purvis.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
5 Coen Purvis, 6675 Corporate
6 Suite 100.
7 I'm here on behalf of Hallmark Partners, an
8 employee of Hallmark Partners. I am a
9 developer, but I'm also a planner, a planner by
10 background as well as education. I've worked
11 not only in the private sector as a -- as a
12 developer and a planner, but as well as in the
13 public sector. So I've been on both sides of
14 this issue.
15 You heard Tom say -- Tom Ingram say that
16 Southpoint was envisioned in the late '70s.
17 That is true. Clearly, I don't have to tell you
18 that a lot of things have changed in Southpoint
19 over that past 30 years. Residential was not
20 envisioned when they put the plan to paper back
21 in the '70s, but, you know, an area must evolve
22 or it will die.
23 And this is happening all over -- all over
24 the country, and it's happening here in
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Pulte -- national home builders like Pulte and
2 D.R. Horton come into areas of commercial and
3 business parks where the market has changed and
4 have come in with residential projects.
5 It just makes sense to use the existing
6 infrastructure. We've already seen -- you know,
7 we've got the water there, we've got the
8 drainage, we've got the sewer, we've got the
9 road system in. Our own traffic analysis shows
10 that actually the net impact from residential is
11 less than what it would be if we developed out
12 with our approved office development rights. So
13 it just makes good planning sense.
14 Another thing is not only the hard
15 infrastructure is in place, but the retail
16 services to support that residential are all in
17 place.
18 I'd like to enter into the record an aerial
19 that we have prepared that shows the retail
20 projects that are within basically a two-mile
21 radius of our site.
22 (Ms. Lee enters the proceedings.)
23 MR. PURVIS: There's over 300- -- almost
24 340,000 square feet of retail. There's 85
25 different retail establishments. Many of those
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 are within walking and/or bike distance. We've
2 got one grocer, one drug, 39 restaurants, eight
3 convenience stores, 14 retailers, eight salons,
4 three cleaners, three financial institutions,
5 nail shops, coffee shops, tanning salon. All
6 the services that are needed to support a
7 residential development.
8 So I would ask for your support of
9 2008-313.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 I have Alex Coley, J.J. Conners, and
13 Paul Harden, and Mike Herzberg.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
17 Thank you.
18 I'm Alex Coley. I'm a partner in Hallmark
19 Partners, 6675 Corporate
20 Our company is headquartered directly
21 adjacent to this property. We've been officed
22 in Southpoint for many years. As I said, our
23 headquarters is there, adjacent to the subject
24 property.
25 We're also managers of the Southpoint
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Property Owners Association, the Southeast
2 Quadrant Property Owners Association, and the
3 Galleria Property Owners Association,
4 encompassing three of the four corners of that
5 intersection. And in all three of these
6 quadrants, we have existing multifamily.
7 Our project -- we have met with the
8 neighbors in the neighborhood on our project
9 and, after some discussion, every single one of
10 them, bar one, is supporting the project.
11 As was mentioned earlier, there was a
12 memorandum circulating in the neighborhood that
13 required some clarification. And after that
14 clarification, again, we report 100 percent in
15 support for the project, bar one.
16 And I want to enter into the record here
17 recommendation letters from those people, along
18 with the recommendation from the president of
19 our trade organization, the National Association
20 of Industrial and Office Properties. Mr. Tom
21 Bisacquino wrote a letter from NAIOP stating
22 that this project is exactly the kind of smart
23 growth, green initiative that NAIOP supports.
24 It reduces our carbon footprint. It is
25 good, proper planning. And, as was mentioned
Diane M. Tropia,
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1 earlier, this bill is supported by the Planning
2 Department, and it's been recommended by the
3 Planning Commission.
4 And I see Mr. Redman up here, our
5 councilman. We appreciate his support as well.
6 I think he'll speak to that later.
7 Again, we just ask for your support for
8 2008-313.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 J.J. Conners, Paul Harden, and Mike
12 Herzberg.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
16 I'm J.J. Conners,
17 Suite 203.
18 I am the president of Chestnut Hill
19 Investments, which is a local real estate
20 development company that I started in July of
21 2006, and I'm here speak on -- in support of
22 this project.
23 Prior to starting my company, I was the
24 vice president and regional market officer for
25 Flagler Development. And in that position, I
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 managed the development, leasing, entitlement,
2 land management, property management of Flagler
3 Developments Holdings in the
4 area.
5 And in two of those projects, both of which
6 Tom Ingram referred to, there was multifamily
7 adjacent to office that I feel worked very
8 well.
9 In Flagler Center, adjacent to the
10 Citi Cards' 600,000-square-foot office campus,
11 there was a -- there is a Pulte multifamily
12 development. Both Pulte and Citi Cards were
13 excited that their neighbor was there. Both saw
14 it as a benefit. Citi Cards actually had a
15 number of employees inquiring about being able
16 to live there to shorten their commute, which
17 serves as a captured trip and didn't put any
18 additional cars on the peak hour roadways.
19 The other project was Deerwood North.
20 Flagler has four office buildings in the
21 Deerwood North DRI, Class A office buildings,
22 among the top in the market.
23 And adjacent to them, between a Flagler
24 office building and another office building, is
25 a multifamily development that serves as an
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 additional asset to -- to that marketplace. And
2 the entire
3 mixed-use, very functional development.
4 So I think that a change such as this,
5 putting apartments next to offices, cannot only
6 work very well, but serves as a -- be a good
7 planning exercise.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 The next card I have is for Paul Harden,
11 but I see it says item 23. He may be here on
12 item 23.
13 Mr. Harden, are you here for this item or
14 not?
15 MR. HARDEN: No.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
17 Our next speaker is Mr. Herzberg,
18 Mike Herzberg.
19 And, Mr. Harden, I'm going to put your card
20 back in for item 23.
21 (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
23 MR. HERZBERG: Good afternoon, sir.
24 Mr. Chairman, my name is Mike Herzberg. My
25 address is
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1
2 And I thank you for the opportunity to
3 speak before you regarding this subject.
4 I've asked that a package be handed out to
5 you tonight that I think will demonstrate how
6 this project is actually inconsistent with the
7 comprehensive plan.
8 As you all know, I have a little bit of
9 experience with the comprehensive plan, but a
10 lot has changed since I was left -- since I have
11 left, specifically in relation to industrial
12 preservation. The City determined, through an
13 industrial preservation study at a cost of
14 $90,000 to the taxpayers of this county, that we
15 need to protect industrial business parks.
16 The loss of these business parks by
17 residential intrusion hampers our economic
18 ability to continue development in these parks.
19 I would submit to you tonight that this is
20 the embodiment of what we paid $90,000 for a
21 study to tell us. Don't drop residential into
22 the middle of industrially-designated properties
23 due to the fact that we may reduce our
24 availability of those industrial properties and
25 have the effect of reducing the uses that are
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 out there or the future uses of those
2 properties.
3 The City went so far as to adopt a
4 comprehensive plan amendment to the BP category
5 specifically stating that new units in this
6 category -- and previously units weren't allowed
7 in this category, but now units would be allowed
8 in this land use category, subject to the fact
9 that they be workforce housing.
10 Workforce housing was further defined by
11 the staff and sent to the council for adoption
12 as being 140 percent of the AMI. That would be
13 approximately $65,000 a year.
14 I think it's difficult to assume -- and I
15 have all the respect in the world for the
16 developers and Epoch Properties. I've seen
17 their product, I know they build good products,
18 but the problem here is the comprehensive plan
19 says he can't build his product.
20 Your comprehensive plan, my comprehensive
21 plan -- and I understand the applicant has made
22 the statement, and I agree with the statement,
23 that the zoning overlay does not apply. I have
24 no problem with that, but the comprehensive plan
25 policies and map L-23 still does apply.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Further, map T-2 of the comprehensive plan and
2 the traffic circulation element applies.
3 Mixed use is a principle of smart growth.
4 I understand mixed use. I'm a planner by trade
5 as well. But mixed use has become a buzz word
6 in the developer's lexicon. We say that if we
7 drop one use next to another, we're mixing the
8 uses. Well, if we drop a pig farm into the
9 middle of a residential subdivision, are we
10 mixing the uses? Well, sure. The pig farmer
11 can live right next door to where the pig farm
12 is, but it defies all logic. Those two uses
13 don't belong together. They're incompatible.
14 There ought to be a law, and there is a
15 law. There's several laws. There's goal 3 of
16 your comprehensive plan, objective 3.2, policy
17 3.2.12, policy -- and the new policies -- let me
18 stop. The new policies that have been adopted
19 since I left the City, policy 3.2.17, policy
20 3.2.19, policy 3.2.29. I can go on. There's a
21 number of those, and they're in your packet.
22 I guess, gentlemen, what I'm really trying
23 to say is mixed use is a good thing, and these
24 gentlemen have developed mixed-use projects on
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 of mixed use.
2 Retail is a component of them. There is
3 little or no retail in this business park, short
4 of a sandwich shop inside some of the offices,
5 and this PUD does not propose uses other than a
6 residential development or more industrial uses.
7 I see that my time has expired. And in
8 respect of that, I'll step down, but I'll be
9 happy to answer any questions.
10 I would like to point out one other thing
11 in relation to surrounding properties. There's
12 been, I think, a misstatement of fact, stating
13 that residential fits in the area.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Herzberg, your time has
15 expired.
16 MR. HERZBERG: Yes, sir. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no further speakers
18 on 2008-313, that public hearing is closed.
19 Councilmember Redman.
20 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 I know this is a pretty contentious issue
22 between the two parties, and I've listened quite
23 lengthy to both parties. And, you know,
24 Mr. Ingram first came to me with this, you know,
25 and it appeared to be a great development in
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 what I think is a needed area. And I --
2 Personally, I think the mixed use will be a
3 great thing for this area, so I'm going to have
4 to support the development.
5 It looks like a -- you know, everything
6 I've seen, it looks like a great development.
7 And, you know, meetings that I have been and --
8 district planning meetings, does lead to this
9 type of development. This is something -- I've
10 been at meetings -- and has been pushed as the
11 up and coming way to develop areas. So I
12 think -- I think it's going to be a good thing.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 Let's go to the Planning Department. I
16 think we have an amendment on this particular
17 bill.
18 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
21 amendment.
22 We'll go to the Planning Department for an
23 explanation of the amendment.
24 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, the amendment
25 consists of several conditions, and I'll read
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 them into the record, please.
2 Condition number 1, "The development shall
3 be subject to the original legal description
4 dated February 26, 2008."
5 Condition number 2, "The development shall
6 be subject to the revised written description
7 dated June 9th, 2008."
8 Condition number 3, "The development shall
9 be subject to the original site plan dated
10 May 25, 2008."
11 Condition number 4, "The required
12 transportation improvements shall be made in
13 accordance with the Development Services
14 Division memorandum dated April 17th, 2008, or
15 as otherwise approved by the Planning and
16 Development Department."
17 Fifth and finally, "Multifamily structures
18 which face or back up to each other shall
19 provide at least 40 feet of separation between
20 structures. Multifamily structures must have a
21 minimum separation of at least 20 feet between
22 end walls and 20 feet between an end wall and
23 face or rear of another multifamily structure."
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
Diane M.
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1 Seeing -- Councilmember Redman, do you have
2 any discussion on the amendment or not?
3 Mr. Redman, before you -- if Mr. Ingram
4 could come up and indicate his understanding of
5 those -- of the amendment.
6 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
7 MR. INGRAM: Yes, sir. We are familiar
8 with the amendment and support it, or find it
9 acceptable.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember Redman,
12 then Councilmember Lee.
13 MR. REDMAN: I have no problem with the
14 amendment. I support it.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Councilmember Lee.
17 MS. LEE: I have a question of legal,
18 please. Through the Chair to Ms. Eller.
19 MS. ELLER: Yes, ma'am.
20 MS. LEE: Do I need to declare ex-parte on
21 this? Paul Harden talked to me about this and
22 asked for support of this. Do I need to go on
23 record with that?
24 MS. ELLER: You can wait until -- oh, no.
25 This is 2008-313. Yes. This is a
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 quasi-judicial matter, so if you could just
2 disclose who you met with and what you
3 discussed.
4 MS. LEE: Yes.
5 MS. ELLER: That, will fulfill the ex-parte
6 disclosure.
7 MS. LEE: Right. I would like to disclose
8 that Paul Harden spoke to me about this. And I
9 was under the impression that he was
10 representing that. That's what he represented
11 to me.
12 Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 Seeing no questions for Councilmember Lee,
15 thank you.
16 We are on the amendment.
17 Seeing no other discussion on the
18 amendment, all in favor signal by saying aye.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
23 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
Diane M.
Tropia,
27
1 2008-313 as amended.
2 Councilmember Webb.
3 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 I have a couple of questions for either
5 legal or for Planning.
6 First off, this does not -- to the -- the
7 point that was made before is that this is a
8 multiuse project. This doesn't strike me -- I'm
9 looking at the Planning Department report. This
10 is not -- this is not a multiuse project in the
11 sense that it's either-or. It's either pure
12 multifamily or it's -- it's a --
13 It's an application for rezoning, PUD. So
14 it changes the industrial business park zoning
15 to a PUD to contract zoning. So it's to
16 facilitate an either-or type situation. It's
17 either multifamily, and if they close a
18 multifamily, we'll rock and roll. Or if not,
19 then they default -- the developer defaults to
20 the IBP -- excuse me -- the industrial business
21 park zoning designation; is that correct?
22 And that's to
23 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to Councilman
24 Webb, yes, that's correct.
25 The property is currently zoned IBP, so
Diane M.
Tropia,
28
1 that's not anything new. The introduction of
2 the residential use creates the mixed use in the
3 development.
4 MR. WEBB: I have a concern with this
5 particular -- with the use of PUD zoning, of
6 contract zoning in this fashion.
7 Essentially, what this does, it strips this
8 body of the ability to consider the merits of a
9 true rezoning. I mean, contract zoning should
10 be for a specific use, and that is, they want to
11 go from whatever -- whether or not they want to
12 go from industrial business park to multifamily,
13 whatever. But, again, they want to do that in
14 the context of contract zoning. And the
15 contract that they negotiate with us as a body
16 effectively says, "Okay. If you can't do this,
17 then you could default to the original use."
18 Isn't that a fair statement?
19 MR. KELLY: That is correct. That is what
20 is being requested.
21 MR. WEBB: Okay. Fair enough.
22 MR. KELLY: The IBP is, you know,
23 compatible with all the other IBP around.
24 MR. WEBB: And the second question for
25 Planning, I guess, you're going -- if -- again,
Diane M.
Tropia,
29
1 this is not a multiuse project in that it's
2 going to be multifamily lined up next door to
3 IBP uses, correct?
4 MR. KELLY: The property is surrounded by a
5 private road, so it applies to the overall
6 parcel.
7 MR. WEBB: I see.
8 MR. KELLY: But the surrounding uses would
9 be IBP, adjacent properties.
10 MR. WEBB: I mean, this strikes me as a
11 good project, I guess, but --
12 Well, one further question to zoning --
13 excuse me -- to Planning. The -- when you're
14 talking about mixed use, you're talking
15 effectively about multifamily residential with a
16 neighborhood commercial component, retail-type
17 component; isn't that accurate? Or is it
18 broader than that?
19 MR. KELLY: It's much broader than that,
20 yes.
21 MR. WEBB: Okay. Fair enough.
22 I will say this, I think this is a good
23 project, but I do not support the use of
24 contract zoning in this fashion, so I'm going to
25 oppose this.
Diane M.
Tropia,
30
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
2 Webb.
3 Seeing no other speakers -- Councilmember
4 Yarborough.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 Like some of the concerns that Councilman
7 Webb had, I'm sitting here -- and I've met with
8 both sides, and in regards to some of the --
9 what's on the front page of what Mr. Herzberg
10 handed us with the concerns, I wanted to ask the
11 Planning staff, one of the things here, under
12 point number 2, speaks to the loss of industrial
13 lands combined with residential intrusion.
14 The next paragraph talks about the council
15 at one point has declared it to be the policy to
16 protect and preserve the industrial areas.
17 Southpoint is an older -- is an older part
18 of town, but the thing that concerns me is how
19 isolated this would be and would be in an area
20 where we primarily have the industrial and
21 commercial areas, and there is not residential
22 anywhere near this.
23 And, to me, I don't know if that would be
24 truly consistent with our plan because it's
25 not -- it just doesn't seem that it would be
Diane M.
Tropia,
31
1 contiguous.
2 And I just wanted to ask our staff, how --
3 really, how do we arrive at the conclusion that
4 this -- I understand with mixed use, it's
5 different, but how do we arrive at the
6 conclusion that this would be something that
7 would be okay with this area?
8 Sean, if you can speak to that.
9 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
10 Through the Chair to Councilmember
11 Yarborough, the industrial study -- again, this
12 is a development of regional impact, and the
13 industrial adoption of the overlay exempted out
14 the areas covered under the DRI, and the DRI is
15 still subject to a notice of proposed change to
16 introduce the residential component.
17 Compatibilitywise, we feel it's
18 compatible. This is a perfect mix of uses, and
19 it's why the buffering standards within the
20 industrial study didn't require separate buffers
21 or additional buffering standards. In fact,
22 they found that they were compatible for all the
23 reasons that -- mixed use generates internal
24 capture. You've got employees living and
25 working without having to get onto the collector
Diane M.
Tropia,
32
1 roads.
2 You do have residential, in fact, in the BP
3 land use category within about a half a mile of
4 here, about -- north onto
5 south of Bowden, there were townhomes introduced
6 in the BP. This has been done on a number of
7 occasions. The BP land use through a -- in the
8 context of a PUD has been used multiple times to
9 allow for multifamily development.
10 We do find that it is compatible with those
11 light office and warehouse uses where everything
12 is done within an enclosed building. You don't
13 have the heavier industrial uses.
14 So from a compatibility standpoint, all the
15 uses within the business park would be
16 compatible with the multifamily use.
17 And in this instance in particular, this
18 property is buffered by a perimeter roadway, and
19 you have I-95 on one side, and you've got
20 adjacent properties that are under ownership by
21 the applicant directly to the north. So we feel
22 that this is consistent with the surrounding
23 area in terms of introducing this use at this
24 location.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. I appreciate that.
Diane M.
Tropia,
33
1 I guess I was just -- I'm trying to think
2 of it in terms of have we -- have we considered
3 it all -- I guess what the -- what we'd like to
4 see the future of the Southpoint area be, or are
5 we just kind of moving forward kind of as we
6 go? I mean, has that been considered at all
7 or --
8 MR. KELLY: It absolutely has.
9 And one of the things we looked at was the
10 JTA's plan for the bus rapid transit system, and
11 this is directly off one of those planned future
12 stations at J. Turner
13 We feel that that was another factor that
14 we looked at in making this more of an
15 appropriate site because it is introducing the
16 mass transit to this area, which the residential
17 will be able to support that mass transit. And,
18 again, density is always a good thing and
19 appropriate in this instance.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thank you.
21 I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.
22 I don't want to oppose the district
23 councilman. I believe he would certainly know
24 what's best for his district. I mean, it has
25 been difficult just to look at that, and knowing
Diane M.
Tropia,
34
1 the character of Southpoint over there, it seems
2 kind of odd that we would allow this type of
3 development to go in with it being so -- with it
4 being residential, but I'll support my colleague
5 on his advice that it's best for his district.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
8 Yarborough.
9 Seeing no further speakers, we'll open the
10 ballot and record the vote.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
15 MS. LEE: (Votes nay.)
16 MR. SHAD: (Votes nay.)
17 MR. WEBB: (Votes nay.)
18 (Committee ballot closed.)
19 MS. LAHMEUR: Three yeas, three nays.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. By your action,
21 it does not move from the committee. It will
22 stay in committee on our agenda.
23 We're going to reopen that public hearing
24 and take no further action today.
25 Councilmember Redman, thank you.
Diane M.
Tropia,
35
1 Do you have any other bills that you're
2 here for or is that it?
3 MR. REDMAN: No.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you
5 very much.
6 We are back on page 5, item 11, 2007-1085.
7 We'll open that public hearing.
8 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
9 public hearing with no further action.
10 Item 12, 2007-1086. Open that public
11 hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
13 public hearing with no further action.
14 Item 13, 2007-1125. We'll open that public
15 hearing.
16 Your agenda may be marked closed, but that
17 public hearing is going to be continued with no
18 further action.
19 Item 14, 2007-1350. Open that public
20 hearing.
21 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
22 public hearing with no further action.
23 Top of page 6. 2008-23 is deferred.
24 Item 16, 2008-40. Open that public
25 hearing.
Diane M.
Tropia,
36
1 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
2 public hearing.
3 Item 17, 2008-145. Open that public
4 hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
6 hearing.
7 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
10 amendment.
11 If I could have the Planning Department
12 please explain the amendment.
13 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, we're on item --
14 which? 2008- -- I apologize.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: 2008-145.
16 MR. CROFTS: Yes. Excuse me.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you find it on page 6?
18 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
19 The amendment is as follows:
20 Condition number 1, "The development shall
21 be subject to the revised legal description
22 dated February 27, 2008."
23 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
24 to the revised written description dated May 1,
25 2008."
Diane M.
Tropia,
37
1 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
2 to the revised site plan dated May 1st, 2008."
3 Number 4, "The required transportation
4 improvements shall be made in accordance with
5 the Development Services Division memorandum
6 dated February 25, 2008, or as otherwise
7 approved by the Planning and Development
8 Department."
9 Number 5, "A 20-foot-wide natural buffer
10 around the perimeter shall remain undisturbed."
11 Number 6, "Any future buildings shall be
12 required to be approved through a new
13 rezoning."
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
16 Seeing no question on the amendment, all in
17 favor signal by saying aye.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
22 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
25 on 2008-145 as amended.
Diane M.
Tropia,
38
1 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
2 record the vote.
3 (Committee ballot opened.)
4 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
7 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
13 approved 2008-145.
14 Top of page 7, 2008-192. We will open that
15 public hearing. We have quite a few speakers.
16 We will begin with Bill Lee, followed by
17 Wade Hampton, followed by Joann Purdie.
18 If you're here on 2008-192, come on down
19 towards the front and help us speed up the
20 process a little bit.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.).
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hampton, if you want to
23 go first, that's fine.
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That would be my request,
25 Mr. Chairman.
Diane M.
Tropia,
39
1
2 I'm here as a representative of
3 St. Vincent's
4 largest employer and I believe one of the
5 largest property owners within the proposed
6 Riverside Avondale overlay district.
7
8 form or another through this legislative process
9 in putting this bill together and has had the
10 pleasure of working with staff, council, the
11 Riverside Avondale Preservation Society [sic],
12 and a number of the neighbors.
13 I'm happy to report to the LUZ that the
14 hospital's concerns, most of them have been
15 addressed and are embodied within the current
16 third substitute of the bill.
17 There is one issue, however, that the
18 hospital would request that this committee
19 consider. It is a proposed amendment to adjust
20 certain parking provisions of the zoning
21 overlay.
22 I have additional copies here, which I'd
23 like to place into the record. I know that
24 various versions of these amendments have been
25 floating around over the life of this bill.
Diane M.
Tropia,
40
1 In short, there is an anomaly which exists
2 within the City's parking ordinance 656.604 that
3 allows substantially reduced parking
4 requirements at a permitting stage based upon an
5 estimation of the number of staff that are going
6 to be within a building. Then once any change
7 occurs thereafter -- a new tenant, a new use, an
8 expanded business, more employees -- the parking
9 problem is instantly created. Cars end up in
10 the streets, cars end up clogging the corridors
11 through the overlay area, particularly to the
12 hospital's emergency room, and end up on
13 St. Vincent's
14 Now, you're probably saying to yourself why
15 are we hearing about this now; shouldn't we
16 address this by fixing the ordinance for parking
17 itself. Well, that's one way. Staff is going
18 to tell you that. Legal counsel will also offer
19 this opportunity to you here. And that would be
20 correct if the overlay district simply adopted
21 the parking ordinance as is, where --
22 100 percent, without any changes.
23 The problem is the overlay district
24 incorporates the ordinance and then cuts the
25 parking space requirement in half in certain
Diane M.
Tropia,
41
1 circumstances or in thirds in other
2 circumstances, thereby exacerbating the problems
3 around the hospital.
4 But amendments request an objective
5 standard be added. This objective standard is
6 already within the ordinance itself just by
7 merely making minor adjustments to the four or
8 five sections in the character area design
9 standard, which is an industry standard, two
10 spaces for 500 square feet. And this would fix
11 and resolve all of the hospital's concerns, and
12
13 ordinance if these amendments could be made.
14 If the staff might suggest to you that we
15 do this later in the parking ordinance or
16 somewhere else, you could imagine what would
17 occur. You'd have a lot of permitting, a lot of
18 building in the area, and then the bill would be
19 adjusted to the parking permit. And so you'd
20 have a mad rush to get your project in under the
21 old rule, before the new one, whereas this body
22 could make that amendment now and resolve this
23 issue for the hospital going forward.
24 I have a representative of
25 Mr. Bill Lee, here. I'm happy to answer any
Diane M.
Tropia,
42
1 questions that we have or discuss those design
2 standards and industrial standards in more
3 detail.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hampton.
5 Mr. Lee, I have you next, followed by
6 Joann Purdie, followed by Kay Ehas.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
9 I'm Bill Lee. I'm the director of real
10 estate and property management with
11 St. Vincent's
12 before this body before and brought statistics
13 and information from MGMA, which is a
14 benchmarking company that's highly known and
15 respected in the medical industry.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lee, hang on one second.
17 Mr. Hampton, I'm going to have you sit down
18 while he's speaking, please.
19 MR. HAMPTON: Yes, sir.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 MR. LEE: And a result of that information,
22 we were comparing, well, what -- how does
23 medical space compare to professional office
24 space. And this comparison indicated the very
25 same -- they were very similar, practically the
Diane M.
Tropia,
43
1 same, two spaces per 500, which is what
2 professional office space is.
3 What's been brought up in the past, in
4 fact, before this body, by another applicant was
5 some -- some information presented by the
6 applicant that we -- we didn't agree with. We
7 thought that the number of doctors that were
8 submitted and the number of staff and the number
9 of exam rooms just didn't -- it didn't seem to
10 meet the MGMA standards or what we've known to
11 be for that parking, and the result of it was
12 that about half of the parking was calculated to
13 be needed.
14 And if that applicant later -- which is --
15 if that's what it was, that's what would have
16 happened. But if that applicant later changed
17 his mind and said, "Gosh, I don't want medical
18 space. I'm having a hard time" -- for whatever
19 reason, or whatever. "I don't have enough
20 parking. I'm going to convert it to
21 professional office." Well, guess what?
22 There's not the number of parking spaces needed
23 that are necessary in a professional office, the
24 two for 500.
25 We're trying to close that loophole.
Diane M.
Tropia,
44
1 That's what we're trying to do with our
2 amendment and that's what it addresses.
3 It addresses parking needs for office uses
4 simply be four per 1,000 or two for 500. That's
5 how it's worded in the ordinance. And then it's
6 not going to be up to an applicant. And
7 before -- when it comes before the Planning
8 staff to respond to the staff questions, which
9 are, how many doctors, how many staff, and how
10 many exam rooms. Well, personally they
11 shouldn't care. It's office use, just do the
12 calculation. And if they convert it later,
13 that's fine. So be it.
14 But, Councilman Corrigan, I know you
15 supported -- you did not support 50 percent
16 reduction in the office character area. You
17 actually suggested -- and it's in the ordinance
18 now that there's only 35 percent reduction in
19 that area. And we support that, wholly support
20 that. Unfortunately, this loophole and this
21 provision will allow an applicant more -- much
22 more than 35 percent credit. Perhaps a
23 60 percent or even more.
24 That's not acceptable to
25 don't want that many cars going into the
Diane M.
Tropia,
45
1 neighborhood just because an applicant perhaps
2 was inexperienced or maybe -- hopefully he
3 didn't intentionally do it in the future, and
4 we're trying to avoid that, and that's what this
5 amendment suggests.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Our next speaker is Joann Purdie, followed
9 by Kay Ehas, followed by Carmen Godwin.
10 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Joann Purdie, 2210
13 This has been a very long process, the
14 Riverside Avondale overlay. We've had numerous
15 meetings with the Steering Committee, which I'm
16 a member of the Steering Committee. And the
17 committee consisted of businesses, neighbors.
18 Councilman Corrigan was very good in putting
19 everybody he could think of, pro or con, on the
20 Steering Committee so we could hash stuff out.
21 We've had numerous public meetings with the
22 neighborhood. All and all, it was a give and
23 take on both parts. It's a very good ordinance,
24 and I hope you would support it.
25 Thank you.
Diane M.
Tropia,
46
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Kay Ehas, followed by Carmen Godwin,
3 followed by Jack Shad.
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
6 Kay Ehas, 2322 Dellwood Avenue, member of
7 the Steering Committee and Chair of
8 Avondale Preservation.
9 I'm here in support of the overlay bill,
10 and I'm really here to thank three particular
11 people. It was a long, hard process, a lot of
12 give and take. As you can imagine, people in
13 the neighborhood care deeply about their
14 neighborhood and wanted to get this right.
15 So I want to thank Dylan Reingold from
16 General Counsel's Office, Sean Kelly from the
17 Planning Department, and Michael Corrigan for
18 their willingness to listen to concerns and
19 ideas. They have been totally patient,
20 thoughtful, and creative throughout the process,
21 and I wanted to just publicly thank them for
22 that.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Carmen Godwin, followed by Jack Shad,
25 followed by Mark Rubin.
Diane M.
Tropia,
47
1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
3 Carmen Godwin,
4 I am the new executive director for
5 Riverside Avondale Preservation, so I'm here on
6 behalf of that organization.
7 The board of directors feel that the
8 overlay is -- represents a pivotal move in
9
10 protect the historic fabric of these valuable
11 neighborhoods.
12 Again, as others have said, RAP did not see
13 everything that it wanted in the document, but
14 we felt that it was important to offer
15 compromise in order to meet the needs of our
16 diverse community. Those compromises included
17 height increases in some places and relaxed
18 parking requirements in others.
19 The great thing about the overlay is that
20 it doesn't take away anyone's rights, but it
21 does offer added protection for the residential
22 areas. It also codifies the existing built
23 environment, which will result in much fewer
24 deviation and variance requests.
25 Ultimately, we feel that the overlay is a
Diane M. Tropia,
48
1 good document. It took several years and many
2 interested parties in putting it together. And
3 we hope that you will take the advice of those
4 parties who have put so much of their time and
5 expertise into this document and approve it.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 I have Jack Shad, followed by Mark Rubin.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jack Shad.
12 Do you need my address or --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, please.
14 MR. J. SHAD: Okay.
15 Number 201.
16 I'm here as a resident of Avondale, as a
17 member of RAP, and as someone who has done a
18 redevelopment project in the district, and I
19 also served on the Steering Committee.
20 We believe that the overlay will reduce the
21 difficulty for homeowners seeking to upgrade
22 their property. They'll need to seek fewer
23 deviations and variances. It will reduce the
24 number of PUDs required to redevelop properties,
25 simplify the process, and should provide more
Diane M.
Tropia,
49
1 predictability for developers.
2 If there are any questions, I'd be happy to
3 answer them. Otherwise --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I appreciate
5 it. No questions at this point.
6 Our final speaker is Mark Rubin.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, members of
10 the committee, Mr. Chairman.
11 I'm Mark Rubin,
12
13 I'm also a member of the Steering
14 Committee, as well as a real estate developer
15 who has developed projects in the
16 Avondale area. We own property there. And we
17 have done projects in the past; we intend to do
18 more in the future.
19 I, too, was on the committee. We've had a
20 couple of years worth of meetings. I confirm
21 the accolades for the Chairman as well as
22 Mr. Reingold and Mr. Kelly, and other members of
23 staff, as well as RAP, and all the people that
24 attended the Steering Committee. It was a long
25 effort and it was emotional at times. A lot of
Diane M.
Tropia,
50
1 people had different agendas, but in the end,
2 we -- it was a -- it was -- it was a battle. It
3 was a give-and-take battle that ultimately
4 resolved in compromise. And compromise is
5 nobody getting exactly what they want, but
6 everybody being comfortable with what they --
7 what we've achieved. And I think what we've
8 achieved, from an overall standpoint, is
9 something that's really good for the
10 Avondale area.
11 I'm a little troubled by Mr. Lee's comments
12 and Mr. Hampton's comments because this is the
13 first I hear of this issue. And Mr. Lee was on
14 the Steering Committee, and this issue -- I'm
15 not exactly sure what he's asking for in the
16 amendment, but I -- from what I heard, I think
17 I'm against it because it opens Pandora's box in
18 terms of creating a whole other level of
19 regulation.
20 The time to raise this was at the Steering
21 Committee. Mr. Lee has certainly had an
22 opportunity to do that. I didn't hear this
23 raised anywhere else. So it's new and it's
24 really too late to address this issue as far as
25 I'm concerned because it was -- it might have
Diane M.
Tropia,
51
1 been appropriate when there was the compromise
2 process going back and forth, but to throw it in
3 now at the end, without understanding all the
4 ramifications -- which there could be many, one
5 of which is how do you police it.
6 When you start off with one use and then
7 you're concerned about some use changing within
8 office versus medical, it's a very complicated
9 analysis. The zoning code -- and I would ask
10 you to ask staff about that, if you choose to
11 discuss this more.
12 But the zoning code specifically talks
13 about medical uses versus office uses and makes
14 distinctions between them. And to come up here
15 and wave some acronym, MGMA, without any
16 foundation or basis or evidence to -- to compare
17 and to validate what they've said is really
18 inappropriate at the 11th hour.
19 So I would -- I would implore this
20 committee to not entertain any amendments and
21 ratify the good work of the Steering Committee
22 and ratify the Planning Commission, which has
23 passed this.
24 And thank you for your time.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
Diane M.
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52
1 I don't see any other speakers, so we'll
2 close that public hearing.
3 We have a substitute.
4 MR. CLARK: Move the sub.
5 MR. WEBB: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
7 substitute.
8 Seeing no discussion on the substitute, all
9 in favor signal by saying aye.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: The substitute carries.
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as subbed.
15 MR. SHAD: Second.
16 Councilmember --
17 I have a motion and second on the bill as
18 subbed.
19 Councilmember Clark.
20 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 I do have a couple of questions since it's
22 clearly an issue with parking in
23 I'm just curious, listening to Mr. Rubin and
24
25 Mr. Lee and find out, if indeed, was this issue
Diane M.
Tropia,
53
1 raised during the committee meetings? If not,
2 why. And -- and should you have fought more
3 vehemently for it.
4 (Mr. Lee approaches the podium.)
5 MR. LEE: Well, the -- no. No, the answer
6 was it was not raised in the committee
7 meetings. I don't believe it was foreseen by
8 the committee members, at least those that I was
9 present with, until a particular application
10 came forth called
11 was -- it raised our eyebrows as well as many of
12 yours.
13 A lot of that application had to do with --
14 specifically, it was approximately 12 physician
15 offices that was presented to the staff. Each
16 office was 4,000 square feet. And from that
17 information, there was an assumption that that
18 would be one physician per office and it would
19 require so many exam rooms and so many staff
20 based on whatever information the applicant
21 worked out or discussed with the Planning
22 staff.
23 That information would have provided what
24 we thought was half -- 50 percent of the number
25 of parking spaces that were actually needed.
Diane M.
Tropia,
54
1 And from that moment on, everybody has been
2 involved, or at least been aware of our concern.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: And I can explain it a
4 little bit, if I could, Councilman Clark.
5 That -- this particular issue was not
6 discussed at length at the overlay committee
7 meetings I went to, but parking has been a huge
8 discussion in this overlay process. I mean,
9 it's what to do in existing commercial and
10 office and residential areas and everything
11 else. So parking has been probably one of the
12 top two or three issues in this overlay.
13 MR. CLARK: Well, to my point. I mean, we
14 have seen and RAP has obviously had to deal with
15 a tremendous amount of conversion, trying to
16 keep things historically. We have banks that
17 try to keep those historically, even though
18 they're no longer residential, things like
19 that. And we see it time and time again. And,
20 you know, my concern is -- as with any
21 development, and predominantly a historic
22 area -- the parking is woefully inadequate when
23 you start turning uses from residential to
24 commercial.
25 And to
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1 ones who bear the burden. I mean, they're the
2 ones who basically turn into the overflow
3 parking lot, so I understand their concern.
4 And from a -- if I could ask the Planning
5 Department, I mean, what's your feeling on
6 how -- I mean, we've been pretty strict on the
7 parking to date. Is that a loophole that you
8 see as going to be a long-term issue that we're
9 going to have to face time and time again, or
10 what -- what do you see?
11 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to
12 Councilmember Clark, no, I don't think there's a
13 loophole.
14 Parking requirements today in Part 6
15 clearly delineate medical office parking needs
16 versus professional office parking needs.
17 There's two separate standards there.
18 Again, I mean, this did come up, in fact,
19 yesterday. My fear is the unintended
20 consequences of adopting this all of a sudden,
21 potentially making numerous medical offices that
22 are existing nonconforming. Also, you're
23 encouraging more surface parking lots in a
24 historic neighborhood, which is something we
25 don't want to do.
Diane M.
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1 And so I think it's probably -- again, it's
2 the wrong place, it's the wrong time. Again,
3 you go to a suburban area of town and they're
4 going to be required potentially to have less
5 parking than would be otherwise required in
6
7 So, to me, it's not appropriate. We're not
8 supportive of any amendment with regards to the
9 parking.
10 MR. CLARK: Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I'll tell you, I'm
12 a -- I've been a little surprised at
13
14 I go to, there's a parking problem. And so I'm
15 a little bewildered on their position that they
16 want to increase the amount of parking.
17 But it is a problem existing. I
18 actually -- and Sean Kelly and I have had a
19 lengthy discussion on this. I disagree with our
20 parking ordinance now. I think that it needs
21 some attention, and why we're letting less for
22 medical when a standard office is not going to
23 get near as many visits as a medical office, so
24 I have some issues with that.
25 And if we don't take them up here on this
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1 bill, I'm going to take them up on the general
2 parking bill because I think that we need to
3 look at that and see if we have the right number
4 because I think it's an issue and I think
5
6 one.
7 So I have mixed emotions, and I've spent --
8 I don't know how many hundreds of hours on this
9 particular overlay trying to get it correct and
10 continue to think that it's better for the
11 community. So thank you.
12 Do you have questions?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't see any other
15 speakers, so let's open the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 MR. REINGOLD: Did you move the sub?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Did we move the sub?
19 MR. CLARK: We did.
20 MR. REINGOLD: Did you move the amendment?
21 (Inaudible discussion.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're in good order.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your actions, you've
8 passed 2008-192.
9 And let me echo some of the comments that
10 were said earlier to the Planning staff,
11 especially Sean Kelly and the Historic
12 Preservation planning staff, and to
13 Dylan Reingold from OGC.
14 A tremendous amount of work went into this
15 document. I appreciate all the energy to this
16 point. And I'm sure we've missed a couple of
17 things in this process, and we'll probably have
18 to come back at times and look at it, but we'll
19 be happy to.
20 Dylan Reingold.
21 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, I know my name
22 has been brought up a bunch, but I would also at
23 least like to acknowledge Mr. Jason Teal, who is
24 also here. He worked on this diligently also
25 for -- put in plenty of hours on this.
Diane M.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: And I did not see him back
2 there.
3 Jason, I appreciate all your help on this
4 as well.
5 This has been worked on for about
6 two-and-a-half years, so I appreciate it.
7 We are on to item 19, 2008-227.
8 We'll open that public hearing.
9 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
10 public hearing.
11 2008-231. We'll open that public hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
13 public hearing.
14 We have an ex-parte declaration by
15 Councilmember Yarborough.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 I know we're not taking action on it
18 tonight. I just wanted to declare ex-parte.
19 2008-231, I talked with attorney Anna Shea
20 and also Todd Plantis (phonetic) of Racetrac
21 Gasoline Company about the revised site plan in
22 my office on May 28th at 3 o'clock to discuss
23 the site plan and also the impact to the
24 surrounding properties.
25 Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
2 Councilmember Yarborough.
3 We are now on the top of page 8. 2008-236
4 is deferred.
5 Item 22, 2008-258. We will open that
6 public hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
8 hearing.
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the sub.
10 MR. WEBB: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a
12 second on the substitute to -258.
13 Seeing no discussion on the sub, all in
14 favor of the sub signal by saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: The substitute carries.
19 MR. WEBB: Move to rerefer.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
22 to rerefer 2008-258 as substituted.
23 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
24 record the vote.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
8 subbed and rereferred 2008-258.
9 We're on item 23, 2008-268. The
10 aforementioned Mr. Paul Harden is here to speak
11 on that bill.
12 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
13 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
14 Boulevard.
15 This is a PUD which coordinates two land
16 use map amendments that have already been
17 approved by the council. They were in separate
18 zoning classifications. The -- this PUD is to
19 just put them all into one -- one zoning so that
20 the land use is now consistent with the zoning.
21 The Planning Commission had an amendment
22 that was approved by the Planning Department
23 that we are in agreement to.
24 I'll be happy to answer any questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
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1 I don't see any questions for you at this
2 point, so we'll go ahead and close that public
3 hearing.
4 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
7 on the amendment to -268.
8 Let's go to the Planning Department for the
9 explanation of the amendment.
10 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
11 The amendment consists of the following:
12 Condition number 1, "The development shall
13 be subject to the revised legal description
14 dated June 12, 2008."
15 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
16 to the original written description dated
17 February 22, 2008."
18 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
19 to the original site plan dated February 22,
20 2008."
21 Number 4, "No maintenance, repair or body
22 shop uses shall occur on the western 100 feet of
23 the property."
24 Number 5, "The 35-foot setback buffer along
25 the west property line shall consist of a 4-inch
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1 diameter breast height evergreen tree planted
2 for every 25 feet of the uncomplementary land
3 use boundary. All other planting and visual
4 screening requirements of section 656.1216 of
5 the zoning code shall apply."
6 Number 6 and finally, "There shall be no
7 signage on
8 a residentially-zoned property."
9 Thank you, sir.
10 MR. HARDEN: The dates are wrong on the
11 written description, the site plan. I think we
12 corrected them at Planning Commission. The site
13 plan and written description were updated and
14 include both pieces of property. That's dated
15 June 12th as well, the site plan and written
16 description.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: We're getting that verified
18 by the Planning Department.
19 MR. CROFTS: That would be correct.
20 So the first three conditions would all
21 reference June 12th, 2008.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. HARDEN: That's correct.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: And you agree to that,
25 Mr. Harden?
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1 MR. HARDEN: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
3 Councilmember Lee.
4 MS. LEE: Yes. I have a question, through
5 the Chair, to Mr. Kelly.
6 Mr. Kelly, the conditions that you just
7 read, are those conditions recommended by the
8 Planning Department?
9 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
10 The Planning Commission adopted -- or
11 recommended approval with the conditions
12 indicated in the letter. The only changes were
13 to the dates of the legal description, written
14 description, and the site plan.
15 MS. LEE: How were the conditions -- how
16 did the conditions come up? Was there -- the
17 neighbors or any particular business? Who
18 recommended the conditions? How did they get
19 there?
20 MR. KELLY: The Planning Department.
21 MS. LEE: The Planning Department thought
22 those conditions were necessary?
23 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
24 Based on the site plan and the extent of
25 the use, the original -- or the site plan
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1 essentially originally showed one building that
2 basically bisected two separate PUDs. So the
3 reason for the revision was to incorporate this
4 as one legal description and then rezone the
5 entire automotive dealership.
6 But the buffering standards that were in
7 place identified the 30-foot -- basically
8 35-foot setback, and then we had restrictions on
9 the uses that could occur within 100 feet of the
10 residential uses.
11 MS. LEE: Okay. And this is the --
12 Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
13 (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.
15 Any further discussion on the amendment?
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor of
18 the amendment signify by saying aye.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
20 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
21 MR. FRANKLIN: (Inaudible.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Is this on this bill?
23 Hang on one second.
24 Ms. Eller, would it be okay if we reopen
25 the public hearing? We just had a speaker come
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1 up. Would that be in procedure?
2 MS. ELLER: (Nods head.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll open the public
4 hearing back briefly.
5 Tim Franklin to speak to this bill. If
6 you'd come up and state your name and address
7 for the record, please, sir.
8 (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)
9 MR. FRANKLIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good
10 evening, committee members.
11 Tim Franklin,
12 I'm here on behalf of Hershel Jackson, who
13 lives on the property, just to the west of this,
14 for about 500 feet along the western boundary
15 line of the dealership property.
16 He lives adjacent to the -- originally
17 there was a small .85 parcel going in with a
18 separate PUD. And as Mr. Kelly ably explained,
19 the amendment here goes to combining that with
20 the prior PUD, going PUD to PUD as opposed to
21 having two different PUDs with two different
22 written descriptions for part of the dealership
23 property and this property.
24 I just wanted to say, we had some concerns
25 about the bill originally as it was drafted with
Diane M.
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1 the inclusion of -- I believe it's conditions 3
2 and 4 that the Planning Commission recommended,
3 namely, the 35-foot uncomplementary buffer. And
4 also a restriction on automotive sales -- excuse
5 me -- automotive repair work and automotive body
6 work within 100 feet of that western boundary.
7 With those two conditions that we worked
8 with the Planning Department on, we're okay with
9 the bill as it's written. We think it will
10 provide a sufficient buffer to our property.
11 Without those conditions, though, I'm
12 afraid that it's going to significantly
13 devalue -- devalue the property to the west of
14 my client and, frankly, ruin his quality of life
15 with the kind of impacts you'd expect from a
16 large PUD like this.
17 So with those two conditions, though, we
18 are -- we are not opposed to this bill.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
21 Questions for Mr. Franklin?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we will reclose
24 the public hearing.
25 MR. CORRIGAN: Move the bill.
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1 MR. CLARK: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
3 bill as amended.
4 Any discussion?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
7 ballot.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
12 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
18 approved 2008-268 as amended.
19 Committee members, page 9. 2008-279 is
20 deferred, as well as 2008-280.
21 We've already taken up 2008-313, so we'll
22 move to 2008-314.
23 We'll open the public hearing.
24 MS. LEE: Move to defer --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry?
Diane M.
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1 MS. LEE: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee, did you --
3 There were no speakers, so we'll go ahead
4 and close that public hearing.
5 Go ahead, Ms. Lee.
6 MS. LEE: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I would
7 like -- I would like for this bill to be
8 deferred. As you can see, the Planning
9 Department has recommended denial.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am.
11 MS. LEE: And the representatives of this
12 particular rezoning have requested to talk to me
13 concerning this matter.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
15 MS. LEE: And in fairness to them, I would
16 like the opportunity to speak with them. That
17 has no bearing on my decision of how I'm going
18 to vote, but I think, just out of courtesy, that
19 I would like to oblige them.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me ask our Chairman.
21 Mr. Corrigan, request to defer -314. Is
22 that -- will that be acceptable, sir?
23 MR. CORRIGAN: (Inaudible.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee, we'll defer -314.
25 I'm sorry. We'll reopen the public hearing
Diane M.
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1 and we'll continue it to the next committee
2 meeting.
3 MS. ELLER: Yes.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Which I'm not sure what date
5 in July that is, but the next time LUZ meets,
6 we'll continue.
7 July 15th.
8 Ms. Lee, go ahead.
9 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 And, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate this
11 because it is in the area that I represent, you
12 know. And I just think common courtesy would --
13 you know.
14 So thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: You're welcome, Ms. Lee.
16 Thank you.
17 2008-314 will be deferred.
18 Committee members, top of page 10,
19 2008-361. We'll open the public hearing.
20 We have one speaker, Emily Pierce.
21 (Ms. Pierce approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
23 If you'd state your name and address,
24 Ms. Pierce.
25 MS. PIERCE: Emily Pierce, 1301 Riverplace
Diane M.
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1 Boulevard.
2 This is a PUD to PUD rezoning in Councilman
3 Corrigan's district. We have spoken and met
4 with him about it. We have a Planning
5 Department recommendation of approval and
6 Planning Commission support, and I request your
7 support.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
10 Questions for Ms. Pierce?
11 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Were you up from last time?
13 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That's all right.
15 Any questions for Ms. Pierce?
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close the public
18 hearing.
19 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
20 MR. CORRIGAN: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
22 amendment.
23 Mr. Crofts.
24 MR. CROFTS: Yes. The amendment is as
25 follows:
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1 Condition number 1, "The developer shall be
2 subject to the original legal description dated
3 April 10, 2008."
4 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
5 to the original written description dated
6 April 10, 2008."
7 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
8 to the original site plan dated April 9, 2008."
9 Number 4 and finally, "Transportation
10 improvements shall be made in accordance with
11 the Development Services memorandum dated
12 April 30, 2008, or as otherwise approved by the
13 Planning and Development Department."
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
16 Ms. Pierce, you're in agreement with the
17 conditions as read?
18 MS. PIERCE: Yes, we are.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: We haven't voted on the
22 amendment yet.
23 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
24 MR. CLARK: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor of the
Diane M.
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1 amendment say aye.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Now we can move the bill as
5 amended.
6 MR. CLARK: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion and second
8 on the bill as amended.
9 Any discussion?
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
12 ballot.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
17 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 By your action, you have approved 2008-361
24 as amended.
25 2008-362. We'll open the public hearing.
Diane M.
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1 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue the
2 public hearing with no other action this
3 evening.
4 2008-363. We'll open the public hearing.
5 We have one speaker, Mr. Hainline.
6 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, sir.
8 MR. HAINLINE: Good evening.
9 T.R. Hainline,
10 This is PUD amendment for
11 down at
12 you know,
13 that area up, and they want to add some
14 entitlements. And we've worked well with the
15 Planning Department to come up with conditions.
16 The only -- and I'm happy to answer any
17 questions.
18 The only thing I would ask you to be sure
19 and do is to amend it to include the Planning
20 Commission conditions because the Commission
21 changed one of the conditions with the agreement
22 of the Planning Department at the Planning
23 Commission meeting.
24 So that would be the only point I would
25 make, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Diane M.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
2 Questions for Mr. Hainline?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none and no further
5 speakers, we'll close that public hearing.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
7 MR. CLARK: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
9 amendment.
10 Mr. Crofts.
11 MR. CROFTS: The amendment is as follows:
12 "The development shall be subject to the
13 original legal description dated April 21,
14 2008."
15 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
16 to the original written description dated
17 April 21, 2008."
18 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
19 to the original site plan dated April 16,
20 2008."
21 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
22 to the Development Services memorandum dated
23 April 30, 2008, and the FDOT memorandum dated
24 June 2, 2008, or as otherwise approved by the
25 Planning and Development Department."
Diane M.
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1 Fifth and finally, "Signage exhibits per
2 enacted ordinance 2003-836-E shall still
3 apply."
4 That concludes the amendment.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
6 Mr. Hainline, are you in agreement?
7 MR. HAINLINE: Yes.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. He's acknowledging
9 that.
10 Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
11 All in favor of the amendment say aye.
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
16 approved the amendment.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
18 MR. CLARK: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
20 bill as amended.
21 Any discussion?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
24 ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
4 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
10 approved 2008-363 as amended.
11 2008-364. We'll open the public hearing.
12 We have one speaker, Mr. Hart.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, sir.
15 If you'll state your name and address,
16 please.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Justin Hart, 8051
18 Lane.
19 I'm here to ask for your support for a
20 minimum road frontage waiver so Mr. Alvarez can
21 build a house on his 120-acre farm. He
22 currently has a 60-foot easement.
23 There's been some miscommunication. And if
24 you read the staff report, they've made a
25 mistake. They've written the staff report based
Diane M.
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1 on five acres. I think I can easily explain
2 that.
3 I want to be clear that this is one RE
4 number. It's on a 120-acre farm with a 60-foot
5 easement off
6 When I applied for the minimum road
7 frontage waiver, it was brought to my attention
8 that you need a signed and sealed, up-to-date
9 legal survey. After explaining that it would
10 cost up above 40 grand to get a survey of the
11 whole 120 acres, we've come up with a solution
12 to just survey the 5-acre parcel that his house
13 and his barn is going to go on.
14 And so, when I filled out the application,
15 I put in that it would be a five -- this is a
16 5-acre parcel of the 120 under one RE number.
17 However, if you read your staff report, it's
18 based on five acres.
19 I want to reiterate this is one parcel of
20 land, 120 acres.
21 Currently,
22 has several new subdivisions. The average
23 density of those subdivisions is three units per
24 acre. Also, the blue book states that in order
25 to build a subdivision, you have to have a
Diane M.
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1 50-foot easement for a subdivision, no matter
2 how large.
3 So I'm here to say that currently the area
4 has a density of three to -- three units per one
5 acre. And 95 percent of subdivisions in
6
7 those subdivisions.
8 What we're asking for is to allow
9 Mr. Alvarez to build a house on his family's
10 120-acre farm. He has a 60-foot easement, which
11 is 10 foot more than 95 percent of all
12
subdivisions in
13 However, it's not curb and guttered and
14 paved. It is well-maintained, and it serves
15 only his house and Mr. Alvarez's house.
16 I would appreciate your support. Here to
17 answer any questions.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hart.
19 Any questions?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we'll close the
22 public hearing.
23 I will entertain a motion.
24 MR. CLARK: Move to grant --
25 MR. CORRIGAN: Second.
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1 MR. KELLY: To the Chair --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly --
3 There's a motion and second to grant.
4 Mr. Kelly.
5 MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
6 We, at this time, would change our
7 position. We do have a couple of amendments
8 based on the miscommunication with regards to
9 the acreage.
10 It was under- -- I guess the thought was
11 that they -- essentially by allowing a waiver,
12 they'd be creating an illegal lot which didn't
13 conform to the underlying land use. So that was
14 part of the reasoning of our denial.
15 And, at this time, I think we're in a
16 posture to support the request subject to a
17 couple of conditions.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Do we need to --
19 Ms. Eller, do we need to entertain another
20 amendment or can we roll it all into the one
21 amendment?
22 MS. ELLER: To the Chairman, you may roll
23 all of that into an amendment to grant the
24 waiver. I would request that the Planning
25 Department read those proposed conditions for
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1 the committee's consideration.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am.
3 We've already moved -- there's been a
4 motion and a second.
5 Mr. Kelly, if you'll go ahead and read
6 those.
7 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
8 The first condition would be that, "The
9 address shall be clearly marked at the terminus
10 of the
11 Additionally, "The subject 120-acre
12 property shall not be further subdivided unless
13 the
14 compliance with City standards."
15 Based on those two conditions, we're
16 recommending approval.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Hart, are you in
18 agreement with the conditions, sir?
19 MR. HART: I would agree to the
20 conditions. However, if we could add somewhere
21 in the second condition if for some reason in
22 the foreseeable next 20 years one of
23 Mr. Alvarez's other daughters or sons wanted to
24 build a house out there on the farm, maybe allow
25 it for family members because this is a family
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1 farm. His son currently lives on a 10-acre
2 parcel next to this farm that was pre1969, so he
3 didn't have to do this.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Corrigan.
5 MR. CORRIGAN: Through the Chair to the
6 Planning Department, I think there's already a
7 provision in the code that allows a family
8 member to build on a piece of property, isn't
9 there?
10 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
11 This property has zero road frontage. The
12 family homestead provision in the land use
13 element allows for additional family members
14 basically to come in through a -- the family
15 homestead partition, so to speak, which wouldn't
16 require the lineal consanguinity to require each
17 individual parcel that gets subdivided, but
18 there is that provision within the future land
19 use element.
20 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. Mr. Hart, I don't
21 think it's necessary. I think it can already
22 happen.
23 MR. HART: Thank you.
24 MR. CORRIGAN: So I think you're okay.
25 MR. HART: No problem.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any discussion on the
2 amendment?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All in favor of the
5 amendment signify by saying aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. By your action,
8 you've approved the amendment.
9 MR. CORRIGAN: Move the bill as amended.
10 MR. CLARK: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Which -- and that's to
12 grant?
13 MR. CORRIGAN: To grant the waiver.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
15 Motion and second to move the amendment to
16 grant the wavier.
17 Any discussion?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
25 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 (Committee ballot closed.)
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
6 granted the waiver on 2008-364.
7 Top of page 11. 2008-365. We'll open the
8 public hearing.
9 We have a few speakers. Janice Smith,
10 followed by Mr. Darrell Smith.
11 If you'll come forward.
12 Are they here?
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sir, I'm going to ask to
14 be excused because I've been coughing.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Smith.
16 Ms. Smith chooses not to speak.
17 Mr. Smith, if you'd come forward.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: State your name and address
20 for the record, please.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, Darrell
22 Smith,
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Smith, go ahead.
24 MR. SMITH: We -- we currently have over
25 three acres on our piece of property now that
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1 we've had -- made into two parcels. And we've
2 got a single-family on parcel 1 now, and we're
3 asking your support in building another dwelling
4 on parcel 2 there.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Smith.
6 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Appreciate you being here
8 tonight.
9 Thank you.
10 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no further speakers,
12 we'll close that public hearing.
13 MR. WEBB: Move to grant.
14 MR. CLARK: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
16 amendment to grant.
17 Any discussion?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 MR. KELLY: (Indicating.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll turn to Mr. Kelly.
21 Sorry about that. I didn't have it written
22 here.
23 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
24 To the Chair, ordinance 2008-365 is a
25 waiver of road frontage seeking to reduce the
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1 required road frontage from eighty feet to zero
2 feet. The subject property is located at 1892
4 A previous request for a waiver of road
5 frontage was granted for the existing dwelling
6 on the property back in 2005 from 80 feet to
7 45 feet. That waiver was approved with a
8 condition that precluded a second principal
9 structure from being constructed on the two-acre
10 property.
11 This waiver, again, has the effect of
12 legitimizing the existing dwelling that was
13 approved in 2005. Again, this request is
14 basically to subdivide the property, thus
15 creating the need for the additional waiver.
16 We've reviewed the application. We find
17 that it is meeting the criteria. We do have the
18 one condition of approval that, "There shall be
19 a 25-foot-wide, clear and unobstructed visual
20 access easement to the waterway from Buccaneer
21 Drive."
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
23 Mr. Smith, are you in agreement?
24 MR. SMITH: Mr. Chairman, if I could ask
25 the board's support -- if we could waive the
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1 25-foot visible access. It's really only
2 visible from the roadway, from the road. You
3 know, in the future we might -- a new dwelling,
4 we might put a privacy fence or something across
5 the section.
6 If there's any way that you-all could waive
7 that 25-foot right-of-way there, I would sure
8 appreciate it -- from the board. There's really
9 no significant value of it being there because
10 it's really not going to be for -- helpful for
11 anyone other than somebody standing in the road
12 to see it.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me -- Councilman Clark,
14 go ahead, this is in your district -- or staff.
15 MR. CLARK: I tell you, I mean, I've been
16 out in Buccaneer. There's -- he's out there on
17 a point. There's nothing else out there.
18 There's -- you know, he's just -- it's them,
19 marsh, and yellow flies.
20 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
21 MR. CLARK: So, you know, I don't think
22 they're going to mind.
23 MR. SMITH: (Inaudible.)
24 MR. CLARK: So is that a --
25 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to Councilman
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1
2 indicated putting up a privacy fence in a front
3 yard, which would be illegal under the terms of
4 the zoning code.
5 Again, the intent of the zoning code, under
6 656.419, is to maintain that visual access to
7 the river, to those navigable waterways. So we
8 wouldn't be supportive of it without the
9 condition.
10 MR. SMITH: Well, I was mainly referring to
11 maybe a privacy fence towards the back part of
12 the yard or maybe a shed or something along the
13 lines, or even moving the house over a little
14 bit.
15 You know, if it was going to make a
16 difference for the neighbors or for -- you know,
17 for people to see better out towards the marsh,
18 I could understand it, but I really don't think
19 it's going to be beneficial to anybody to have
20 that covenant on it to where we can't maybe
21 slide the house over when we build it a little
22 closer to the property line.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
24 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
25 Through the Chair, again, just -- the
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1 concern is that a house gets built and, you
2 know, from the end of the road as the residents
3 drive into that area of the road -- and that's
4 part of their neighborhood. They walk their
5 dogs and it's part of where they live, that --
6 maintaining those lines of sight from the ends
7 of the right-of-way are important, maintaining
8 the visual access. It's an amenity to that
9 overall neighborhood. So we view it in that
10 context. And it's really only 25 feet, which is
11 essentially the closed right-of-way portion from
12 1980.
13 So if that is just left open and they don't
14 construct a house in that closed 30-foot strip
15 of right-of-way, then they're meeting that
16 requirement.
17 So we don't feel it's onerous on them to
18 provide this, and we think it's within the
19 public benefit.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Anything further?
22 Okay. Thank you, Mister --
23 MR. SMITH: Is there any way that we might
24 be able to compromise and make it a little
25 smaller? You'll still be able to see through
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1 the properties and see the marsh. You know,
2 you'll still be able to see plenty -- plenty of
3 marsh by walking a dog down at the terminus of
4 the road. But, you know, there's not very much
5 traffic there. It's on a dead -- it's a
6 dead-end off of a circle. There's not many
7 single-family dwellings in the area. So there's
8 not a whole lot -- it's not like a neighborhood,
9 per se, like you're used to being in. It's
10 really a small -- a small area with not very
11 many families at all.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilman Clark.
13 MR. CLARK: I mean, I have to agree with
14 him on that one. It's a tiny, tiny, little
15 area, and darn near every single human being
16 there is on the marsh.
17 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
18 MR. CLARK: So, I mean, I have to agree
19 with him on that one. So why don't we give to
20 15 feet. Can I make that amendment?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: If we roll it into the --
22 MR. CLARK: I can make the amendment to
23 give to 15 feet?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah.
25 MR. CLARK: Let's roll it all together with
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1 15 feet and approve it.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: We're still on the
3 amendment.
4 We can make that change, Mr. Kelly?
5 MR. KELLY: (Nods head.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
7 MR. SMITH: Thank you so much, Mr. Clark.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
9 MR. SMITH: Appreciate it.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're on the
11 amendment, seconded, with the inclusion of the
12 change.
13 All in favor of the amendment signify by
14 saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
17 approved the amendment.
18 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
19 MR. CLARK: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: As amended.
21 Okay. Motion and second to grant the
22 waiver as amended.
23 Any discussion?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
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1 ballot.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
6 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
9 (Committee ballot closed.)
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 By your action, you have approved --
13 MR. SMITH: Thank you very much. God bless
14 y'all. Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith. Have
16 a good evening.
17 2008-365, the waiver is granted.
18 2008-366. We'll open the public hearing.
19 We have one speaker, Mattie Taylor.
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Ms. Taylor.
22 If you'll come forward.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: State your name and address
25 for the record.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
2 I'm Mattie Taylor,
3 And I'm here concerning this amendment. I
4 don't have a problem with any church having a
5 sign. However, where the sign is now
6 positioned, it's less than 30 feet from my front
7 door, and it shines in my house.
8 They have a tendency to leave it on. I
9 know they're looking to get a new sign, but
10 where the sign is actually positioned needs to
11 be repositioned. It needs to be either put in
12 front of their church and not on the side of the
13 church.
14 Our -- my lot sits adjacent to theirs.
15 They're on the right -- the left-hand side of
16 me. And when they're there, it's fine. They
17 have a tendency -- they do turn it off. But
18 there have been occasions where it's been left
19 on for a week, and I've tried calling and
20 getting someone to turn it off.
21 So I'm here asking the committee to see if
22 they can, first, find another place to put their
23 sign before it's granted. And if the sign is
24 granted, which I have no problem with, that they
25 move it and put a timer on it so that it will go
Diane M. Tropia,
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1 off in proper time.
2 We have a very small neighborhood. I've
3 owned this lot for 46 years. It's been family
4 property. I don't have any problems with
5 churches in the area. Most of us go into other
6 areas to worship. The only thing that I'm
7 asking is when they come into our area, to
8 respect us also. We've lived there. They come
9 into the area.
10 And it's been a lot of instances going on
11 back and forth, which is neither here or there
12 at the moment, but the sign is my biggest
13 concern. It hinders me from sleeping at night,
14 and I'm a heart patient. When the light is on,
15 it's extremely bright. It illuminates my whole
16 front part of my house.
17 So I'm just asking the committee to please
18 reconsider this. Maybe put some more planning
19 into it and see if there are other options
20 before this sign goes up. Maybe putting it on
21 the corner of Helena and Sawyer, or directly in
22 front of their church.
23 I thank you very much.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Taylor.
25 Ms. Lee, do you have a question for
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1 Ms. Taylor?
2 MS. LEE: Yes. This is in the district
3 that I represent.
4 And, Ms. Taylor --
5 MS. TAYLOR: Yes.
6 MS. LEE: -- I'm going to refer to the
7 Planning Department. We're going to work to try
8 to make it where it will work for everybody.
9 I'm asking --
10 MS. TAYLOR: Thank you.
11 MS. LEE: -- that it be deferred.
12 And we all are diligent about trying to,
13 number one, see if we can just work it out
14 where --
15 MS. TAYLOR: Everybody is happy.
16 MS. LEE: -- everybody is happy.
17 And I think -- I think we have a solution.
18 I'll let either -- Mr. Folks has something to
19 say. He can -- you want to go down --
20 MR. HUXFORD: (Inaudible.)
21 MS. LEE: Excuse me?
22 MR. HUXFORD: (Inaudible.)
23 MS. LEE: Okay. He'll meet you outside and
24 share with you what we're planning to do.
25 MS. TAYLOR: Thank you.
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1 MS. LEE: I would request -- are you going
2 to be chairman for the rest of the evening?
3 THE CHAIRMAN: No, I don't think so,
4 Ms. Lee.
5 MS. LEE: Oh, okay.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: We're just about to switch
7 again.
8 MS. LEE: Okay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: I will just mention that the
10 public hearing will be continued, so no action
11 on this bill tonight.
12 MS. LEE: Okay, then. It has to be
13 continued. Okay.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am.
15 MS. LEE: I just -- we're going to work
16 this out.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
18 Councilwoman Lee.
19 And, as I mentioned, this public -- there's
20 no further speakers, so the public hearing will
21 be continued to the next LUZ meeting on
22 July 15th.
23 (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
25 Yarborough.
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1 We are now on item 34, which begins a
2 series of semiannual land use amendments. Items
3 34 through 46, actually, they're all the same
4 type of amendments.
5 To begin with item 34, 2008-390.
6 We will open that public hearing. We have
7 a number of speakers -- four speaker cards.
8 We have Paul Harden, Karl Sanders,
9 Nancy Kilgo, and James Farley.
10 (Mr. Sanders approaches the podium.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sanders, good evening.
12 MR. SANDERS: Good evening, Mr. Chairman.
13 Karl Sanders. I'm here on behalf of the
14 JEA.
15 This is a land use amendment to allow for
16 the development of the first power generating
17 station since the Southside generating station
18 was decommissioned in 2001.
19 MS. LEE: Excuse me. I did not hear his
20 position.
21 Who is he, through the Chair?
22 MR. SANDERS: Through the Chair,
23 Councilwoman Lee, my name is Karl Sanders. I'm
24 representing the applicant, JEA.
25 MS. LEE: Do you work for JEA?
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1 MR. SANDERS: No, ma'am, I do not. I'm an
2 attorney here in --
3 MS. LEE: Oh, okay.
4 MR. SANDERS: Yes, ma'am.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Sanders.
6 MR. SANDERS: Mr. Chair, it's about
7 160 acres, a hodgepodge of different land use
8 classifications today. We're -- and it's also
9 located in an area that the City has identified
10 as an industrial sanctuary. We're requesting
11 that all of the land use classifications be
12 changed to PBF to allow for this.
13 Staff has recommended approval. The
14 Industrial Technical Advisory Committee
15 unanimously recommended approval. The Planning
16 Commission unanimously recommended approval.
17 We're asking this committee for its support as
18 well.
19 I'll be available for any questions you may
20 have on the land use amendment.
21 Ms. Kilgo, with the JEA, is here this
22 evening. She's going to address you about the
23 details of the project itself, give you an
24 overview of that, and then we would like the
25 opportunity to reserve -- have rebuttal time in
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1 the event that that's necessary.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Thank you.
3 MR. SANDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sanders, you're going to
5 act as the agent on this for the rebuttal; is
6 that correct?
7 MR. SANDERS: Yes.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
9 Nancy Kilgo.
10 (Ms. Kilgo approaches the podium.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Nancy Kilgo will be followed
12 by James Faley.
13 MR. SANDERS: Thank you.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
15 Nancy Kilgo, JEA,
16
17 I'm here to give a very brief overview of
18 the project. We'll be happy to answer any
19 questions you might have.
20 As Karl mentioned, this will be the first
21 generation we've built in the southeast part of
22 the city since we decommissioned the Southside
23 generating station.
24 We're having growth countywide, citywide,
25 but the southeast portion of the city is one of
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1 the highest growth areas. It's also one of the
2 highest demand areas of current megawatts, so we
3 would like to have a plant there for
4 reliability. If we do not build the plant
5 there, we will end up building -- purchasing
6 additional transmission right-of-way and
7 building additional transmission lines to serve
8 that part of town.
9 The plant we're proposing is one of the
10 cleanest fossil fuel plants we can build, a
11 natural gas fired power plant. We're proposing
12 first as a simple cycle combustion turbine.
13 Later, we will come and try to do a conversion
14 of that to be able to get additional megawatts
15 for the same amount of fuel that we would burn.
16 The site is proposed as just south of 9A,
17 where it turns and crosses 95. And it would be
18 just west of the proposed 9B right-of-way, and
19 just east of an existing electric transmission
20 corridor. The plant would feed into that
21 existing electric transmission corridor.
22 So I'll be available to answer questions or
23 at the end.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Kilgo.
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1 Our next speaker is James Farley.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is James Farley.
5 I'm at
6 And I'm before you to express concern
7 regarding the JEA proposal to the site. This is
8 due to -- over the past three years there have
9 been significant development, looking at the
10
11 along the 9A -- 9A road.
12 And this -- this development is --
13 consisted of office parks, condominiums, shops,
14 banks, medical offices, and a hotel. This
15 continues southward along the 9A corridor and in
16 addition to the exits of
17 and Baymeadows, and these developments are now
18 within a three-mile radius of the proposed site
19 for the
20 And believe that the
21 Center will compose as -- will cause a
22 significant stop in the construction or decrease
23 in the construction or result in the decreasing
24 commercial revenues for the City of
25 as well.
Diane M.
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1 And the question I'd like to propose to the
2 council is, with the loss in proposed revenue
3 due to the power plant, is that going to be
4 worth the location along the 9A corridor or is
5 the -- if it's this close to 9A -- the 9A
6 corridor, is a resource that, you know, there's
7 been considerable state investment in, and
8 whether we're going to lose potential commercial
9 development if the power is placed where it is.
10 In regard to the scale of the turbine, once
11 the phase two portion of the project is
12 completed, the portion that recaptures heat from
13 the exhaust, the structure will be close to
14 190 feet, which, in comparison, is roughly the
15 same height as the Omni Hotel downtown and the
16 Mount
17 Boulevard.
18 Even though the industrial sites in the
19 area are not the same type of industry as the
20 proposed
21 likely have a more dramatic effect on the
22 commercial development in that area.
23 And, in addition, even though it's a gas
24 turbine, they reduce particulate emissions, but
25 there are still significant amounts of other
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1 emission.
2 And in comparison to the Brandy Branch
3 plant, which is, I assume, also a gas turbine,
4 in that instance -- from looking at the
5 information from the environmental agency, they
6 did require an acid rain permit for the Brandy
7 Branch permit as well, so there will still be
8 significant emissions even if the particulate
9 emissions are decreased.
10 Thank you for the opportunity to speak
11 before you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 I see no further speakers.
14 Mr. Sanders, do you have any rebuttal or --
15 (Mr. Sanders approaches the podium.)
16 MR. SANDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 Just a couple of things.
18 I would submit that having access to an
19 abundant supply of electricity would encourage
20 commercial development, not discourage it.
21 Secondly, this property is located in an
22 area that the City has already designated as
23 appropriate for industrial type uses, of which
24 this is as well. So that policy decision has,
25 in fact, been made by this council.
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1 If you have any details [sic] on the
2 emissions or any of the technical aspects of
3 this project, we have those people here to speak
4 to the committee as well.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
6 Seeing no further speakers, we will close
7 that public hearing.
8 We'll go to Councilmember Webb.
9 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
10 We have before us this evening -- I guess a
11 question for counsel, general counsel. This is
12 merely the land use. This is not -- this is not
13 the zoning? This is not the PUD?
14 MS. ELLER: Correct.
15 MR. WEBB: So, again, when this comes back
16 before us, after it takes its little sojourn to
17 Tallahassee, I -- you know, I would ask some
18 questions about appropriate buffers and things
19 of that nature.
20 But I will say that that's not before us
21 this evening. Again, we're only here to talk
22 about the land use.
23 I do support this. I mean, again, it abuts
24 this industrial site. And this is not my
25 district. This is Councilman Graham's
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105
1 district. But, you know, for all intents and
2 purposes, it's very, very close.
3 And, again, I deem this project necessary.
4 I think that with the appropriate buffers and
5 appropriate modifications or concessions,
6 conditions in any PUD, that this can work.
7 So thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
9 Webb.
10 I'll take a motion on the bill to get us in
11 the proper posture.
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
13 MR. CLARK: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -390.
15 Councilmember Yarborough.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 I echo Councilman Webb's support to it.
18 I wanted to thank also Ms. Kilgo and the
19 staff at JEA. They invited us several months
20 back to go out to Brandy Branch and take the
21 tour out there, and I wanted to say thank you
22 for that. I learned a lot that day when we went
23 out there and had an opportunity to talk to the
24 staff and the hard-working folks out there.
25 The other thing I learned also was that on
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106
1 the east and south side of the river, we only
2 have -- we only have one or -- this will be the
3 first one. This will be the first generating
4 station. So basically, if a storm or if a ship
5 or something like that over there near the Dames
6 Point terminal, if those lines were to get
7 clipped, it's lights out on the east and south
8 side of the river, and for us in Arlington all
9 the way down to the county line in Mandarin.
10 So -- and this is something that is needed
11 there. And, as Mr. Webb said, they've worked
12 hard on this and I'm happy to support it too,
13 and I appreciate the hard work they've done.
14 And I think we also have the support of
15 several of the surrounding property owners down
16 there in the industrial part of that area as
17 well.
18 So I appreciate it.
19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Seeing no other speakers on 2008-390, let's
22 open the ballot and record the vote.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
8 approved 2008-390.
9 Committee members, I'd like to go to
10 page 20 for just a second.
11 Item number 70, 2008-473. This is a bill
12 that Dylan Reingold is here to represent, and
13 it's the only bill he has. And he has a
14 mediation all day tomorrow, so I want to try to
15 go ahead and move that bill so he can get back
16 to work on the mediation.
17 So we'll open that public hearing.
18 We're on page 20, top of the page, item 70,
19 2008-473.
20 I have a card for Susan Green. I think I
21 saw her step out.
22 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, I think she had
23 to leave, so I informed her of the amendments
24 and spoke with Councilman Graham earlier on
25 this, and he was in support of it as well.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm going to go ahead and
2 close that public hearing.
3 Can I have a motion on the amendment?
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: So moved.
5 MR. CLARK: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
7 amendment to -473.
8 Mr. Kelly, are you going to explain the
9 amendment -- or do we need to explain it?
10 Mr. Reingold can do it.
11 MR. REINGOLD: I got it.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 MR. REINGOLD: The amendment essentially
14 would remove the transferability language, and
15 then it adds additional criteria for automated
16 car washes.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Dylan, speak up a little
18 bit. We can barely hear you.
19 MR. REINGOLD: That's weird. I don't think
20 I've ever been told to speak up.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Can you switch your
22 microphone?
23 MR. REINGOLD: Thank you.
24 I think we got it.
25 All right. This bill would allow for car
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1 washes in CN districts, and the amendment would
2 remove the transferability language that was
3 originally incorporated in the bill.
4 Additionally, it would have several
5 conditions for car washes pursuant to the
6 performance standards and development criteria.
7 I'd be happy to walk through those with the
8 committee if you would like, but essentially
9 there's six different, essentially, conditions
10 they have to operate under, including hours of
11 operation, buffers, and number of vacuum
12 stations and the like.
13 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to -- if I
14 could just clarify that this is going to be the
15 subject of a zoning exception that will be heard
16 before the Planning Commission. This is not
17 just permitted by right in CN. They have to
18 come before the Planning Commission and have a
19 public hearing.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
21 Thank you, Mr. Reingold and Mr. Kelly.
22 I don't see any questions, so all in favor
23 of the amendment signal by saying aye.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
4 MR. WEBB: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
6 2008-473 as amended.
7 Open the ballot and record the vote.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
17 approved 2008-473.
18 Thank you, Mr. Reingold. Appreciate it.
19 We're are on item 35, 2008-391.
20 We'll open that public hearing.
21 We have Mr. Paul Harden.
22 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
23 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
25 MR. HARDEN: I'm sorry?
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
2 MR. HARDEN: Thank you.
3 Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.
4 As you indicated, this is a land use map
5 amendment transmittal application. This site is
6 located immediately behind the Winn-Dixie
7 distribution center that you see along I-10 as
8 you travel along there if you're heading away
9 from town on the right, towards town on the
10 left. It's across Beaver Street, immediately
11 adjoins it. It's the site of the old Creeg
12 (phonetic) dairy. The dairy will continue to
13 operate on most of the land, but this is a
14 distribution center intended to take advantage
15 of activity related to Cecil Field. It's in the
16 industrial sanctuary compatibility area.
17 Other than that, I'll be happy to answer
18 any questions.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
20 I don't see any questions at this point.
21 MS. LEE: I have a question.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, let me go ahead --
23 Go ahead and ask the question, Councilwoman
24 Lee.
25 MS. LEE: Through the Chair to the Planning
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1 Department, please.
2 Mr. Crofts, can you identify for me what an
3 industrial sanctuary is?
4 MR. CROFTS: Yes, ma'am.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Crofts, if I can
6 interrupt you for a second.
7 MS. LEE: Well, let me ask it -- let me
8 restate myself.
9 It has been said that this area is an
10 industrial sanctuary. Is that a fact?
11 MR. CROFTS: That's correct.
12 MS. LEE: Okay. Thank you.
13 MR. CROFTS: That's it?
14 MS. LEE: Uh-huh.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no other
16 speakers -- questions for the speaker, we'll
17 close the public hearing.
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
19 MR. WEBB: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -391.
21 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
22 record the vote.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 (Committee ballot closed.)
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
6 approved 2008-391.
7 Committee members, we're on the top of
8 page 12, 2008-392.
9 We'll open that public hearing.
10 We have one speaker, Ms. Lynda Aycock.
11 (Ms. Aycock approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
13 MS. AYCOCK: Thank you.
14 Lynda Aycock, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.
15 This property is located at the proposed
16 new intersection of I-295 and Collins Road. The
17 proposed development is to create a commercial
18 center that will be compatible with the
19 Southwest Vision Plan. We have letters of
20 support from the Argyle Area Civic Council and
21 the Westside Business Leaders Association.
22 The only other thing is, when we had the
23 staff report at the Planning Commission, there
24 was an error in it in that it said that this
25 property owner also owned the property on the
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1 other side of Collins Road. That is not the
2 case. And I believe the report is being
3 corrected. It may have already been corrected,
4 but I just do want to clarify that for the
5 record.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
7 MS. AYCOCK: And I'll be happy to answer
8 any questions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Aycock.
10 Seeing no questions, we'll close that
11 public hearing.
12 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -392.
15 Go to the Planning Department. Had that --
16 the ownership angle been cleared up?
17 MR. CROFTS: That is correct, sir.
18 That is something that we've corrected in
19 the report itself.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you.
22 Seeing no other discussion, open the ballot
23 and record the vote.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: You just approved 2008-392.
8 2008-393. Open that public hearing.
9 I bet you Ms. Lynda Aycock is here to speak
10 on that bill as well.
11 MS. AYCOCK: That's a very good guess.
12 Lynda Aycock, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.
13 This property is also located at the
14 intersection of I-295 and Collins Road. The
15 applicant also proposes to create a commercial
16 center that will be compatible with the
17 Southwest Vision Plan.
18 This development also has the -- a letter
19 of approval -- or support from the Argyle Area
20 Civic Council and from the Westside Business
21 Leaders Association.
22 I'll be happy to answer any questions.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
25 Ms. Aycock.
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1 And I just assume the Planning Department
2 will take care of the ownership issue on this
3 one as well.
4 So we'll close that public hearing.
5 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
8 2008-393.
9 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
10 record the vote.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
14 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you just
20 approved 2008-393.
21 Committee members, item 38, 2008-394.
22 We'll open that public hearing.
23 We have one speaker, Mr. Justin Hart.
24 (Mr. Hart approaches the podium.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening again.
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1 MR. HART: Good evening.
2 Justin Hart, 8051 Tara Lane.
3 This particular project is bounded by heavy
4 industrial to the east and the railroad tracks
5 to the east, and light industrial to the south.
6 To the west it is buffered with a big wetland,
7 buffering a residential area.
8 It lies within the industrial sanctuary of
9 the industrial preservation map. We have
10 approval from the Industrial Technical Advisory
11 Committee and Planning Department, and I would
12 appreciate your approval on this matter.
13 Here to answer any questions.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
15 I don't see any questions for the speaker,
16 so we'll close that public hearing.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
18 MR. WEBB: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
20 on the bill.
21 I have a quick question for the Planning
22 Department. Mr. Hart just referenced the --
23 having an industrial -- I forget the exact
24 terminology to the group.
25 I don't see that on this. Are we typically
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1 going to be putting that on these reports or
2 should we, or should we not, or --
3 MR. CROFTS: This particular area is shown
4 on the industrial preservation map, so it is
5 within the sanctuary area.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
7 MR. CROFTS: So -- and wherever that
8 occurs, we'd like to make that known, it does go
9 before the Industrial Technical Advisory
10 Committee for their particular recommendations
11 to pass along to the Planning Commission and
12 this body, City Council as well.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I guess my
14 encouragement is to have them get the reports
15 over to Legislative Services faster so we can
16 make sure it's on the agenda when we bring it up
17 in the future.
18 So it's not something that has to be done
19 today, but I appreciate the help in the future.
20 So thank you.
21 Seeing no other discussion, we'll open the
22 ballot and record the vote.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
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1 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
7 approved 2008-394.
8 2008-395. I'm just going to guess that
9 Mr. Hart is here to discuss that bill.
10 MR. HART: Bingo.
11 Justin Hart, 8051 Tara Lane.
12 This particular project fronts on Duval
13 Road. It is bounded by BP, business park, land
14 use designation to the north, to the west, and
15 to the south. To the east is residential land.
16 I will be coming back with a PUD and
17 buffering those residential lands that it
18 fronts, and minimizing all -- all conflicts it
19 may have with those residences.
20 There is a pocket of residential land that
21 is surrounded by industrial, and I just happen
22 to front that pocket on one side. I will be
23 working with the neighbors and writing a PUD
24 that should take care of any problems.
25 It does lie within the industrial
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1 sanctuary, and that actual pocket, whole pocket,
2 lies within it. One day -- maybe one day it
3 will all be industrial.
4 We do have approval from ITAC and the
5 Planning Department, and I'm here to ask for
6 your approval.
7 And be glad to answer any questions you may
8 have.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hart.
10 Seeing no speakers, we'll close the public
11 hearing and go to Councilwoman Lee.
12 MS. LEE: Through the Chair, good evening.
13 MR. HART: Yes, ma'am.
14 MS. LEE: Did you say Ribault Road?
15 MR. HART: No, no. Duval Road.
16 MS. LEE: Okay.
17 MR. HART: I'm sorry. I mumble a little
18 bit.
19 MS. LEE: Okay. That's why I was --
20 because I know Ribault Road is in the area I
21 represent. I saw Duval. So maybe I
22 misunderstood. Okay.
23 MR. HART: Yes, ma'am. That's my fault.
24 It's Duval Road, Councilman Holt's
25 district.
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1 MS. LEE: Okay. Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Lee.
3 We have an amendment on this bill.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
5 MR. CLARK: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
7 amendment to -395.
8 We'll have the Planning Department explain
9 the amendment, please.
10 MR. CROFTS: The amendment in this
11 particular case is basically a technical
12 amendment in that it -- it revises the legal
13 primarily and -- well, that is it. The acreage
14 is correct, the maps are correct, so no other
15 changes are needed.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hart, do you agree with
17 that amendment?
18 MR. HART: Yes, sir.
19 That was my mistake. I actually left out
20 some property when I submitted the legal and to
21 resubmit the legal. However, all the maps and
22 notices were correct.
23 I agree.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't believe there's a
25 mistake. I think you just wanted to clarify it
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1 further; is that correct?
2 MR. HART: That's right.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hart.
4 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
5 amendment signal by saying aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
11 MR. CLARK: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -395
13 as amended.
14 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
15 record the vote.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
20 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
25 MR. HART: Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
2 approved 2008-395.
3 Committee members, we're on the bottom of
4 page 12, 2008-396.
5 We will open that public hearing.
6 We have one speaker, Mr. Paul Harden.
7 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
8 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
9 Boulevard.
10 This is, again, a land use map amendment.
11 This site adjoins an existing multifamily
12 development. Under the intersection, it expands
13 it, the size, but not the density of the unit.
14 It will be the subject of a PUD which adjoins
15 the other parcel.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
17 Seeing no other speakers, we'll close that
18 public hearing.
19 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
20 MR. CLARK: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
22 2008-396.
23 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
24 record the vote.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
9 approved 2008-396.
10 Committee members, we're on top of page 13,
11 2008-397.
12 We will open that public hearing.
13 We have one speaker, Mr. Howard Smith.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
17 I'm Howard Smith -- I'm the agent for the
18 property owners -- 6101 Gazebo Park Place.
19 This is a land use amendment changing the
20 land use category to light industrial. It's on
21 Eastport Road. It's in a transitioning light
22 industrial area near the port, up from the port,
23 and also near the intersection of Pulaski and
24 9A.
25 Staff has recommended approval of this.
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1 It's been approved by ITAC and also Planning
2 Commission, and we ask for your support
3 tonight.
4 And I'm available for any questions.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very
6 much.
7 Seeing no other speakers, we'll close this
8 public hearing.
9 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
10 MR. CLARK: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
12 2008-397.
13 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
14 record the vote.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
25 approved 2008-397.
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1 Committee members, we have now been going
2 at it for an hour and 55 minutes, and our court
3 reporter's hands, I'm sure, are tired, so we
4 will take a recess before we get into the next
5 bill because there's a number of speakers on
6 that bill.
7 So we will take a 15-minute recess and
8 crank back up at 7:10 promptly.
9 Thank you.
10 (Brief recess.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen,
12 we'll go ahead and call the meeting back to
13 order. I appreciate your patience as we took a
14 quick break there.
15 Before we left, we finished item 41, so we
16 are now on item 42, 2008-398.
17 Let me tell you before we get started,
18 there's something I said earlier I'll reiterate
19 that there's a lot of -- I'm thinking a lot of
20 passion. I have a huge stack of speakers here,
21 and I appreciate everyone's professionalism as
22 we debate this. I will demand that as chairman
23 of this committee. So I appreciate your
24 cooperation with that.
25 Having said that, we will open the public
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1 hearing on 2008-398. I have a number of
2 speakers. The first three are Paul Harden,
3 Jimmie Green, and Mr. Troutman.
4 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Due to the complex nature of
6 this, I'm going to give a little leeway to
7 Mr. Harden, and also I will probably --
8 Mr. Birchfield, I believe you're
9 representing the largest group here this
10 evening, so I'll look for guidance from you who
11 you would think would be the first speaker who
12 would like some additional time on that.
13 So, Mr. Harden, is eight minutes for you
14 fine?
15 MR. HARDEN: That will be far sufficient.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
17 MR. HARDEN: I tried to coalesce down what
18 I had to say.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
20 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
21 Boulevard.
22 This is a vote tonight on whether or not to
23 transmit a future land use map amendment to the
24 Department of Community Affairs. This amendment
25 was presented to the Planning Department, the
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1 Concurrency office, the District Councilperson
2 more than six months ago.
3 During that six-month period of time, we
4 have continued to provide environmental studies,
5 traffic reports, level of service calculations
6 which support the project.
7 MS. LEE: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Did you
8 set a time certain? Did I hear you say eight
9 minutes?
10 THE CHAIRMAN: I said eight minutes for
11 Mr. Harden to present, and I was going to give
12 the leader of the opposition eight minutes as
13 well.
14 MS. LEE: Okay. I didn't know if the
15 committee voted. Was that something -- is that
16 a set time?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: No. That's at the
18 chairman's discretion.
19 MS. LEE: Okay.
20 MR. HARDEN: Have you got a -- Marilyn, is
21 the clock on or --
22 MS. ALLEN: It is. We stopped it.
23 MR. HARDEN: Okay. I just can't see it
24 there.
25 As I said, we presented this application
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1 over six months ago to all the parties
2 involved. And since then, we've continued to
3 provide environmental studies, traffic studies,
4 and level of service calculations to support the
5 project.
6 The request is to allow the construction of
7 a distribution center at the intersection of
8 295, at this location (indicating), and
9 Lem Turner. Lem Turner has been designated the
10 primary north-south truck corridor for the port
11 activity in a study that was commissioned by the
12 MPO and Jax Port. That study was called the
13 North Jacksonville Marine Terminal Multi-Modal
14 Impact Study. And it indicated that Lem Turner,
15 which is where our access is located, is the
16 main corridor for that truck traffic.
17 In a letter of support from the
18 Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce, which you have
19 before you, the Chamber of Commerce described
20 the property as quote, "Extremely well-located
21 for the industrial logistics and distribution
22 projects that are needed to support Jax Port."
23 The Planning Department has recommended
24 approval of this project, and by a vote of seven
25 to one last week the Planning Commission also
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1 recommended approval.
2 Now, I want to locate the site on the map
3 for you. It's within a 550-acre parcel located
4 at 295 and Lem Turner. To the north of us is
5 land purchased by the Airport Authority to
6 provide a corridor between their landing strips
7 and development. The airport landing area comes
8 along here (indicating). There's a noise
9 attenuation zone here (indicating). This is
10 basically a crash zone for the airport. They're
11 in support of our project.
12 To the south of us is a piece of land owned
13 by Catsecus (phonetic) and Kern, who also
14 support our project.
15 To the east of us is the only residential
16 district shown in this location that's affected
17 by the project. You have before you petitions
18 signed by that neighborhood, which is along
19 Newcomb and Hemlock, and you'll hear from them
20 tonight.
21 I want to show you the buffers that we've
22 provided from residential locations on the map.
23 And remember, a couple of weeks ago you were
24 fighting about buffers on Alta Road. We were
25 trying to decide between 100 and 120 feet.
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1 We're 845 feet from the nearest residential
2 location here (indicating). We're 1,075 here
3 (indicating). We're 815 here (indicating).
4 There's a neighborhood, Angel Lakes, which
5 you're going to hear from tonight as well.
6 We're 1,400 feet -- 1,464 feet from their
7 nearest border, over 2,000 feet away from their
8 nearest house at that location.
9 You'll hear, as I said, from three groups
10 tonight that really are -- have input. One, the
11 Angel Lakes folks are going to speak. I think
12 they're in opposition.
13 But I point out to you, their use of 295 is
14 at the next intersection up, a-mile-and-a-half
15 away from the project, and then almost a mile
16 further down the road. So as the car drives,
17 it's two-and-a-half miles. As the crow flies,
18 it's over 2,000 feet.
19 The neighbors who are really affected are
20 the neighbors who live along Hemlock and Newcomb
21 Road. The reason they're affected is the
22 current access for the current zoning on this
23 site comes right through their neighborhood.
24 Our access is going to be constructed at
25 this location (indicating). It's a
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1 120-foot-wide boulevard access out to Lem Turner
2 Road.
3 We have committed not to have any access
4 through Newcomb or Hemlock in the development.
5 Currently, the access on the 1,700 townhomes and
6 single-family homes on this development planned
7 for this site comes straight down Hemlock, a
8 20-foot-wide neighborhood road.
9 The current zoning on the site allows for
10 that 1,700 townhomes and residents and allows
11 for 3,400 peak-hour trips a day down this
12 20-foot road.
13 Importantly, the setback for that 1,700
14 homes, single-family subdivision, is 10 feet
15 from the property line of the neighbors,
16 including the commercial operation, Flamingo
17 Park, RV Park. Flamingo Park has provided us a
18 term sheet. They are in opposition to our
19 project.
20 They provided us a term sheet, which I
21 noted they had e-mailed to some of the council
22 members. On that term sheet they ask for four
23 things:
24 One, no access down Newcomb Road. We
25 agreed to that.
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1 Two, a 10- -- that we construct a 10-foot
2 berm. We agreed to that.
3 Three, a 200-foot separation. We
4 redesigned and move back to 185 feet off there.
5 And then, four, they wanted us to sell them
6 a piece of property so they could move their
7 illegal signs to a legal sign location.
8 We believe our response to the request by
9 the folks at Flamingo Lake is fair. But more
10 importantly, these are issues that need to be
11 dealt with in a PUD.
12 As you're aware, after the transmittal,
13 this property will come back for a review -- if
14 it's transmitted -- for an adoption and with a
15 companion rezoning at the time.
16 This is not your only bite at the apple.
17 You'll be able to deal with the PUD and the
18 other issues as they arise.
19 Flamingo Lakes current request as of this
20 morning -- not the term sheet that we agreed to
21 initially, was a 22-foot-high visual barrier and
22 exclusive use of 200 feet or about eight acres
23 of our land, which we value at about
24 $1.7 million.
25 We complied with every request of their
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1 initial request. We think that's reasonable.
2 And, you know, we think that's a good way to
3 deal with it.
4 That being said, if this project comes back
5 for approval with a PUD, we'll abide by whatever
6 buffers that the Planning Department think are
7 appropriate from us in the commercial use.
8 Flamingo Lakes is a commercial operation, a
9 for-rent RV park which is located along 295.
10 One of their borders is 295. Currently, they
11 have backing up to them in the zoning project
12 45-foot-high townhomes that required a 10-foot
13 buffer.
14 At our location, they have two units -- you
15 can see it on the map -- two units located along
16 that location. So now we are providing a
17 185-foot setback and a 10-foot-high berm as
18 opposed to 10 feet and 40 foot -- 45-foot
19 townhomes.
20 I'm truly sorry to be in the position I am
21 with the district councilperson. It's very
22 uncomfortable for me, but I don't want to
23 minimize the positive nature of this project.
24 It's at the intersection of two major roadways
25 in the Northside of the City of Jacksonville,
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1 295 and Lem Turner.
2 The access fronts on Lem Turner, which has
3 been designated by the MPO as the major
4 north-south truck corridor for port activity.
5 We have between 900 and 2,000 feet of buffer
6 from any residential use. Nearly every one of
7 the affected neighbors -- that's the neighbors
8 on Newcomb and Hemlock -- are in support of our
9 project. The project is supported by the
10 Chamber of Commerce and the City's authorities
11 which are dealing with the lands in the area,
12 including the port traffic.
13 The Planning Department and the Planning
14 Commission have given their approval. The city
15 of Jacksonville is in great need of distribution
16 facilities. I guess you read last week that the
17 Mitsui -- yeah, the Mitsui project will be
18 having deliveries beginning July 1, which is in
19 about three weeks, so it's important that we
20 provide the distribution space to meet those
21 needs, and this is at a location that meets
22 those needs.
23 I would respectfully request that you
24 transmit this project to the Department of
25 Community Affairs for their review.
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1 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
3 As I organize the cards, we have a number
4 in support and a number opposed. I think to
5 make it easier to follow, we'll go through the
6 cards of support and then turn to the opposition
7 and let them present their side.
8 So our next speaker will be Genson Robt
9 [sic] -- I'm not sure --
10 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: -- and followed by
12 C.W. Sellers, followed by Eva Fowler.
13 And any of the speakers that just want to
14 indicate their support or opposition, they're
15 welcome to do that as well, and I'll read it
16 into the record.
17 So good evening, sir.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, sir.
19 My name is Robert Genson, and I've lived at
20 12500 Lem Turner Road since 1962.
21 And this here warehousing seems to have
22 less impact on our land than housing, so I'm --
23 I like the idea, but I didn't know that Lem
24 Turner Road was designated a truck route for the
25 airport. Now, when did that come about? They
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1 didn't announce that one to me, but I don't take
2 the newspaper.
3 You don't know?
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know the answer to
5 that question.
6 MR. GENSON: We'll forget that then.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
8 MR. GENSON: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: C.W. Sellers, followed by
10 Eva Fowler, followed by Elizabeth O'Neal.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is C.W. Sellers.
13 I live at 3815 Newcomb Road, and I do support
14 this project.
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Eva Fowler, followed by Elizabeth O'Neal,
18 followed by Kathleen Plymel.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
22 Eva Fowler. I live at 3838 Hemlock
23 Street.
24 And as a property owner on Hemlock Street,
25 I support this amendment.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Elizabeth O'Neal, followed by Kathleen --
3 And, Kathleen, I can't pronounce your last
4 name, so I apologize.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Elizabeth O'Neal. I live
7 at 3843 Hemlock Street.
8 I've lived there all of my life, and I am
9 also in support of this amendment.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Kathleen followed, by Claudia Combs,
12 followed by John Combs.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
15 Kathleen Plymel. I live at 3827 Hemlock
16 Street.
17 I'm here today in support of this
18 proposal. Earlier ideas for the use and growth
19 within our community have seriously impacted the
20 pleasure of life, particularly with traffic
21 within our neighborhood, so we are trying to
22 look for the best way to grow. And we feel that
23 this is the best way.
24 We have a good neighbor -- possibly a good
25 neighbor coming in that's going to cause minimal
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1 disruption to the traffic and the activity of
2 our environment.
3 And we thank you for your support.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 Claudia Combs, followed by John Combs,
6 followed by Robin Miness.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Claudia Combs, and I
10 live at 3751 Hemlock Street.
11 My parents lived there a lot longer than I
12 have, but I love the quietness of the
13 neighborhood. I love to be able to go for a
14 walk in the evening, ride my bicycle, take my
15 grandson with me. I am in favor of this
16 project.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 John Combs, followed by Robin Miness,
19 followed by Al Miness.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, sir.
22 My name is John Combs. I live at --
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Get a little bit closer to
24 that microphone.
25 MR. COMBS: I'm sorry.
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1 I live at 3751 Hemlock.
2 Most of us are longtime residents. We've
3 owned property out there for in excess of
4 20 years, all of us.
5 You know, developments come and, you know,
6 we just -- we're trying -- like our other
7 neighbor said, we're trying to grow, but we're
8 trying to keep a little piece of our
9 neighborhood like it is. And even though really
10 our land runs so far back in there that this new
11 road is going to be at our back of our property,
12 you know, we're kind of looking at the less --
13 excuse me -- the lesser of two evils on this
14 thing.
15 And, you know, for our neighborhood, you
16 know, we just thought this was the best thing.
17 And I'm sure that the campground doesn't agree
18 with us. But, you know, we're kind of looking
19 out for our neighborhood.
20 Thank you for your time.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Robin Miness, followed by Al Miness.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Am I getting close on the
25 last name?
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Miness (pronouncing).
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Miness.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Robin Miness.
4 I live at 3636 Hemlock Street.
5 I live on the road, my mother-in-law lives
6 on the road, and my sister-in-law lives on the
7 road. We've lived at our property for 23 years,
8 and we have two young daughters.
9 Our neighborhood is safe, it's quiet. Our
10 children can go and play in the front yard.
11 They don't have to worry about traffic, they
12 don't have to worry about someone bothering
13 them.
14 Having a residential community at the end
15 of our road with 3,400 cars coming twice a day
16 is not a good alternative for our neighborhood
17 or our children or our families.
18 Having this light industrial at the end of
19 our road will cut off access to our road,
20 Newcomb Road, Angel Lakes. It will cut off any
21 access going through residential neighborhoods,
22 and that is a key problem for our road, Hemlock
23 Street.
24 And I support this project 100 percent and
25 hope that you'll support us in it.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
3 Al Miness, followed by Minnie Howell,
4 followed by Michael Hunt.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
8 I'm Al Miness, 3636 Hemlock Street.
9 I've lived there for 23 years, and I
10 support this project.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 Minnie Howell, followed by Michael Hunt.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
16 My name is Minnie Howell. I live at 3707
17 Newcomb Road. I've been there since 1958.
18 I hardily support this proposal. I do not
19 understand why my neighbors, Flamingo Lake,
20 would oppose it. First of all, I'm a landowner,
21 I'm a taxpayer, and I believe landowners,
22 taxpayers should be the people that are
23 influencing your decision.
24 I understand the campers support Mr. Fisher
25 because he provides a nice campground, but they
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1 should have no say in what's going to affect us
2 for the rest of our lives.
3 And I do hope that you will support this
4 proposal. I don't understand why they're upset
5 because they are also my neighbor -- they're
6 directly across from me. They are also my
7 neighbor on my right side and they're not
8 particular about a berm there. They're not
9 particular about throwing garbage over my
10 fence. They're not particular about cutting
11 trees down on my fence, and this has happened.
12 Now, in the recent past, it has not been
13 that way. And I think there was one person that
14 influenced that, but nonetheless, we support
15 this proposal. My neighbor Michael Hall also
16 supports this proposal. And give it a lot of
17 consideration because the camp people are going
18 to come and go. I'm going to be there, Lord
19 willing, another 50 years.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Michael Hunt, followed by Bill Birchfield.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening,
25 Councilmembers.
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1 My name is Michael Hunt. I live at 12855
2 Lem Turner Road. My wife and I have been there
3 since about 2002.
4 We live basically right across from where
5 the 120-foot road will come out to Lem Turner.
6 We purchased the property with the idea that on
7 a state highway would be development. We've
8 seen Joyce Development Group purchase property
9 behind us and beside us and south of us, and the
10 property that is south of us is actually five
11 acres. It's about 500 foot of road frontage on
12 Lem Turner, and we've seen that be rezoned and
13 the use reappointed.
14 I certainly appreciate my neighbors drawing
15 your attention to the fact that we are property
16 owners and we're taxpayers. We live there.
17 It's our neighborhood.
18 And I can assure you that the Flamingo
19 trailer park folks would not appreciate me going
20 into their neighborhood where they live, where
21 their houses are, and try to influence zoning or
22 land use in that area. I don't appreciate it
23 here.
24 And as a taxpayer, I expect that you
25 understand that already, but I think it's
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1 appropriate to make the observation.
2 We do support the development and we want
3 you to do the same. And we think it's a proper
4 use for that area, and we enjoy the fact that
5 Jacksonville is growing and appreciate the work
6 that you do in overseeing that.
7 Thank you very much.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
9 The next speaker I have is Bill Birchfield.
10 Mr. Birchfield, as I indicated to
11 Mr. Harden when it began, and if he's
12 representing the agent in this, I'm thinking --
13 I think you represent the largest percentage of
14 the people, so I'm going to give you some leeway
15 on your time, or if you have a better
16 explanation, I'll be welcome to listen to it.
17 MR. BIRCHFIELD: I'd like to ask this be
18 handed out to the members.
19 MS. LEE: Excuse me. I have a question.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Lee.
21 MS. LEE: Yes. There are other speakers in
22 the audience. They will have an opportunity to
23 speak; is that correct?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure will. Just like the
25 people in favor of it.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 While Mr. Birchfield is coming up, the
2 first five speakers I have is Bill Birchfield,
3 Robert Little, Michael Fisher -- actually
4 Michael Medill Fisher, and Michael Watson
5 Fisher, and then Bobby Cornwell.
6 (Mr. Birchfield approaches the podium.)
7 MR. BIRCHFIELD: Mr. Chairman and members,
8 my name is Bill Birchfield, and I have an office
9 over in San Marco, it's 1031 LaSalle Street.
10 I'm here tonight on behalf of Flamingo Lake
11 RV Park in opposition to this land use
12 amendment. And I am not in opposition to the
13 folks that live on Hemlock or Newcomb. In fact,
14 we can relate very well to how they feel about
15 this.
16 And let me explain to you our face in the
17 group picture.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Birchfield, when you
19 speak, speak a little -- either pull the
20 microphone up a little bit or speak a little
21 louder for me, please.
22 MR. BIRCHFIELD: I used to could speak
23 louder, but I guess I better pull the mic up.
24 Excuse me. I apologize.
25 The first time that Flamingo Lake learned
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1 about this project, it involved a receipt of a
2 site plan that was submitted to the Corps of
3 Engineers. Now, it's been doctored up a little
4 bit. This ain't the site plan that went to the
5 Corps because this is color and highlighted, the
6 boundary of the building, to make a point.
7 The initial positioning of the warehouse
8 closest to Flamingo Lake is startling. That
9 picture in the little book I've handed out, I
10 think it's on the --
11 MR. SHAD: Page 5.
12 MR. BIRCHFIELD: So that was -- that was
13 actually better to open, those of you who play
14 poker.
15 Then Mr. Harden has passed out the map that
16 I would have passed out if he hadn't passed it
17 out first.
18 Looking at our face, again, in the group
19 picture, as he points out, Hemlock has got over
20 800 feet buffer, Newcomb has got over 800 feet
21 of buffer, and Flamingo Lake has got a jammed up
22 and jelly tight -- the way this thing is put in
23 there.
24 So what -- what that does to us is to work
25 on the quality of life for the people who visit
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1 our park. Mr. Harden's solution to that is to
2 back up 185 feet to the edge of the first
3 building.
4 Now, I do not know whether we're going to
5 have one of these beautiful colored photographed
6 buildings or whether we're going to have a
7 public storage building on steroids, but here's
8 what we tried to put together to make the point
9 (indicating), and I concede it is very much
10 exaggerated.
11 This picture immediately to my right is the
12 picture from the western end of the park, across
13 some trees --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Birchfield, is your hand
15 on the mute button on that microphone? Don't
16 put your hand on the bottom of the microphone.
17 There you go.
18 MR. BIRCHFIELD: I'm going to learn.
19 Then to get an idea of what this could do
20 to us, we asked for one of these people -- for
21 the secret photograph shop stuff, to superimpose
22 a 35-foot warehouse on the property line. I
23 concede that's not going to happen, but I also
24 would suggest to you that it makes a point. And
25 how far -- even with paislies on it, that's not
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1 going to look very attractive.
2 The other problem with Mr. Harden's
3 solution, as we see it, is that there will be
4 activity between the building and the berm which
5 will be very noisy. He suggests putting the
6 berm along our property line and then using the
7 remainder of the 185 feet, part truck, hook
8 wagons, trailers, and this, that and the other.
9 So what is our solution? Our solution is
10 on one of the pages in that book. But basically
11 it's this: We would like to have a 200-foot
12 vegetative buffer.
13 And all of this is not vegetative
14 (indicating). The northern part of that little
15 strip is vacant. We'd like to ask the owner to
16 let us go out there and plant vegetation in that
17 area and maintain it. We'd like to ask the
18 owner to build a wall or berm with a wall on it
19 on the other side of 200-foot buffer to protect
20 us from the noise.
21 Mr. Harden talks about the cost of this,
22 and when you get it down -- even the Bible says
23 money is the basis for most of the things that
24 we do evil. I don't think it's necessarily evil
25 to want to make money. But what's happening
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1 here, these people are the victim of a fall in a
2 residential market. Only three years ago you
3 rezoned this to a residence, and then the
4 residential boll weevil come along and -- eating
5 your cotton crop.
6 He's a residential crop. And what do you
7 do? You call financial 911 and you solve the
8 problem by changing it to light industrial
9 because the port authorities and the airport
10 folks are promising us that we'll have lots of
11 boxes to haul.
12 What that does economically is change land
13 that's $45,000 an acre in good times to land
14 that's worth $125,000 an acre, or swing for this
15 particular site of about $20 million to almost
16 $60 million. There's plenty of money there to
17 solve this problem. It's 5,400,000 square feet
18 of residential property -- well, not
19 residential -- of warehouse property.
20 We estimate that the cost of the berm with
21 a wall is a little bit over half a million
22 dollars. That would raise the price of
23 warehouse space one -- not $1.00 because that
24 would be a lot of money, but 10 cents a square
25 foot would get you $540,000.
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1 So it's affordable and it's equable because
2 you have that kind of buffer when our neighbors
3 to the north enjoy 815 feet and 845 feet.
4 And, in fairness, we would urge you to
5 eliminate the easterly corner of this thing from
6 the land use amendment, or at least impose upon
7 the developer a condition to provide us with a
8 buffer.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Birchfield.
10 Our next speaker will be Robert Little.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Is it Robert or Robolt?
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Robert.
14 My name is Robert Little. I'm at 14942
15 Reef Drive in Jacksonville.
16 I am also a taxpayer and citizen in
17 Jacksonville. I moved here from West Palm Beach
18 two years ago because I saw Flamingo Lake for
19 the first time doing some consultation and fell
20 in love with the property. It's a great asset
21 for Jacksonville. It's a great asset for
22 Florida.
23 I'm the vice president and general manager
24 of Flamingo Lake and I'm also the vice
25 chairperson for the Florida-Alabama Association
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1 of RV Parks and Campgrounds, to which Bobby
2 Cornwell is here. He's our executive director.
3 I moved my family here, like I said. I
4 love Jacksonville. I moved. I bought a house
5 on the Northside, different side of the city,
6 but nonetheless there.
7 We belong to many different associations
8 and we have memberships and affiliations
9 throughout the country. We're known throughout
10 the world. Best Parks in America, we're one of
11 22 parks in the country with the Best Parks
12 affiliation. There's a letter in there from
13 Best Parks stating how detrimental this is for
14 our business.
15 There's also a letter from Visit Florida,
16 who is the leading tourism agency in the state.
17 Boy Scouts of America, who also comes to us.
18 We've spent over $420,000 in capital
19 improvements last year alone on the property.
20 We anticipate a million dollar addition in the
21 near future for paving, tree planting,
22 beautification and other issues.
23 We're the number one destination RV resort
24 in northeast Florida. We serve approximately
25 12,000 visitors a year for an average of a
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1 three-day stay with an economic impact of
2 approximately $5.4 million.
3 Varied day uses for the neighborhood. Our
4 pool, our lake and events. We have the
5 Bluegrass Association there this weekend, which
6 is thousands of members strong, which sees our
7 park versus Suwannee, which is where they used
8 to go, and see a wonderful situation for them to
9 have their activities at our resort.
10 We spend over $25,000 a year in advertising
11 annually promoting Jacksonville as a
12 destination.
13 I hear comments of the trailer park, of
14 they're temporary people. RVs by nature are
15 temporary housing for people, real people that
16 come here for real reasons, to Mayo Clinic for
17 treatment, whether it's working with
18 construction in the area, building new
19 facilities, or whatever. That's where real
20 people are choosing -- a beautiful park -- to
21 stay.
22 There are noise issues we are severely
23 concerned about, one of them being -- yeah, it's
24 an industrial area. We're not adverse to, you
25 know, growth in the area. However, just backup
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1 alarms alone, which is required by OSHA for
2 trucks, forklifts, any material handling, it's
3 from 87 to 102 decibels. I have materials to
4 back the fact of those numbers in here. That
5 equates to a train whistle at 500 at 90
6 decibels. You've going to hear that constantly
7 day in and day out. RVs are outdoor
8 recreational. These people spend 85 percent of
9 their time outside their RVs. They go inside to
10 sleep.
11 So I don't know what everybody else in the
12 area is aware of, but you will hear that in your
13 residential areas just as well. Please look at
14 the facts.
15 In closing, it would be nice if we could
16 solve this matter today and either put an end to
17 this or get concessions from our developer.
18 I appreciate it.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 Michael Medill Fisher, followed by Michael
21 Watson Fisher.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 I'm Michael Fisher. I live at 1602 Parrish
25 Place in Jacksonville, Florida.
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1 I apologize. I don't have my green
2 opposition sticker, but I am wearing the
3 official opposition suit. As you can see, Bill
4 and I are coordinated here.
5 I don't want to be -- well, let me first
6 submit the 60 signatures that I got on
7 Fathers Day while my wife and daughter were at
8 Sea World. I'd much rather been there with them
9 rather than collecting these 60 signatures in
10 opposition, and quite a few of them are on
11 Hemlock.
12 In an effort not to be redundant, I'm just
13 going to tell you a little bit about my
14 experience as an owner at Flamingo Lake RV
15 Resort and just briefly tell you about it.
16 My family and Raymond Lane and his son
17 Kenny Lane created Flamingo Lake in the late
18 '80s. And I remember my father waking me at
19 around 6:00 a.m. every morning during the
20 summers to go out there and float a weed eater
21 to help keep the park beautiful for $10.00 a
22 day. I did that for three summers. And I
23 didn't like Flamingo Lake too much back then,
24 but I'm crazy about it now because I've watched
25 my sweat help create from 46 sites to
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1 285 sites. That means we bring almost 13,000
2 people to Jacksonville a year. And I have a
3 feeling, a sneaking suspicious that these people
4 are not here because of our warehousing
5 capacity.
6 No, I believe that they're here because
7 they recognize our RV resort to be the number
8 one RV resort in North Florida and one of the
9 most famous in the nation. And this is right
10 here in your backyard, folks.
11 I believe that the pleasant ambience that
12 we create and maintain has earned us national
13 recognition and will continue to do so.
14 Now, I want to conclude by telling you
15 about my experience as -- working at a warehouse
16 during my junior and senior years at Lee High
17 School. I worked at a warehouse on Ramona. It
18 was Westside Industrial Park. If you're
19 familiar with the area, you know it's a fraction
20 of the size of this development here. And I can
21 tell you that every day I showed up at work at
22 that facility, I would have to wear earplugs
23 because of the volume of the equipment that used
24 there, and that type of activity will be
25 seriously detrimental to our park and the
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1 ambience that we provide.
2 We have the only certified swimming lake in
3 North Florida. The only -- I'm sorry -- in
4 Duval County. Let's keep that around. Any of
5 y'all like to fish? I know my last name is
6 Fisher. I can't do it very well, but you can
7 catch a 16-pound bass out of that river or that
8 lake. We've never had a gas engine touch that
9 lake in the 20-some-odd years we've owned it.
10 I want to thank you for your time, I
11 appreciate it, and look forward to hearing some
12 of my other compatriots.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 Michael Fisher, followed by Bobby Cornwell,
15 followed by Jimmie Green.
16 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Michael
19 Fisher, and I appreciate my son giving me an
20 introduction.
21 I live at 3521 Hedrick Street in
22 Jacksonville, Florida.
23 And I am an attorney, but as Paul Harden
24 can tell you, I'm a novice at this. And the
25 only reason I'm up here is because my family
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1 owns an interest in Flamingo Lake RV Resort,
2 Inc.
3 I appreciate very much y'all giving me the
4 time to talk to you about this enterprise which
5 was a dream of ours 18 years ago. Mr. Lane and
6 I saw this pristine lake, 17 acres. It was
7 right there on 295 and Lem Turner, and our
8 vision was we could turn this into the finest RV
9 facility in North Florida. And over 20 years,
10 we've had many problems, but we've been able to
11 accomplish that.
12 Just one example of the quality of our
13 park: We have two large springs that are in the
14 spring itself, but we've also, on top, have two
15 pumps that spray water 50 feet. Those were put
16 in at an expense of over $100,000. And to keep
17 this lake pure, we spend over $1,000 a month
18 just to -- on electricity.
19 Now, I'm not here to tell you all the
20 wonderful things that we have at Flamingo Lake.
21 But on the 4th of July, it will be brimming full
22 with families, retirees, and people that want to
23 come and have a good time.
24 Now, if we have these warehouses behind us,
25 even at 185 feet, with the noise that we've
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1 heard they can generate, it's not going to be
2 the same experience.
3 I think it was telling at our last
4 committee hearing that we had many votes against
5 us, but the one vote that was for us was Marc
6 Hardesty. And guess what? He's an RVer. He
7 understands that industrial and having next to
8 it an RV park doesn't work.
9 Now, I'll take just a few minutes, if I
10 could. Mr. Corrigan, can I have the balance of
11 the time that you talked about that you were
12 going to allocate to Mr. Bill Birchfield?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: No. Mr. Birchfield took the
14 full eight minutes that Mr. Harden had.
15 MR. FISHER: Well, then I'd just like you
16 to look one -- just one quick minute.
17 Has everybody got a copy of this book?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Uh-huh.
19 MR. FISHER: All right. You need to look
20 first. You see our outline with the way it is
21 now. You'll see what -- on page 2, a picture of
22 where the -- where the warehouses will be.
23 You'll see on number 3, you'll see an outline of
24 the current land use, and you'll see it set back
25 815 feet and 775 feet that Mr. Harden has
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1 generously given all the residents, and you'll
2 see that he's given us none.
3 Now, if you will look next -- I'm sorry I
4 have to go so quickly, but look on page -- if
5 you will look on page 7, and you will see --
6 May I have one minute? Mr. Corrigan, may I
7 have one minute?
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Just a few seconds. Try to
9 wrap it up, please.
10 MR. FISHER: Okay. If you'll look there,
11 there on the next page, you'll see what
12 Mr. Harden has offered us. He's going to cut
13 down all the trees.
14 If you'll look on the front, you'll see the
15 first picture we have has all the trees that are
16 behind our park. We're going to have to cut
17 them all down and put a 12-foot berm or he says
18 a 10-foot berm. And then right behind that is
19 not the -- he's right. It's not the warehouse,
20 but it's going to be paving. It's going to be
21 where all those 18-wheelers are going to be.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Fisher, your time is up.
23 MR. FISHER: All right. I'll just show you
24 the last -- here is our proposal. What it shows
25 is we keep that berm, that 200-foot berm. And
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1 then next to it, we have a 200-foot natural
2 vegetative state. And we'll plant it, we'll
3 keep it right. And then next we'll have the
4 berm that Mr. Harden has generously offered us,
5 to put a wall on it.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you.
7 MR. FISHER: Thank you very much for your
8 consideration.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is
10 Bobby Cornwell, followed by Jimmie Green.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: All right. Thank you.
14 I'll be quick.
15 I'm Bobby Cornwell, 1340 Vickers Road,
16 Tallahassee, Florida.
17 I'm the president and CEO of the Florida
18 Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds. I'm
19 also on the board of directors of Visit Florida,
20 and I'm chairman of the Welcoming Centers to
21 Visit -- serves as a committee of Visit Florida.
22 I'm kind of wearing two hats tonight.
23 Speaking, one, on the benefits of tourism, not
24 only to the state but to your city, and also on
25 camping.
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1 Flamingo Lake is one of the top campgrounds
2 in the state of Florida. I don't know if you
3 realize that. The city of Jacksonville realizes
4 what an asset they are to the city, but they
5 are.
6 Camping brings in over $6 million to
7 Florida every year in tourism. Over
8 84.5 million visitors visited the state last
9 year, and about 6.7 of those were campers, not
10 including all the hundreds of thousands of
11 residents that camp within the state of Florida.
12 Flamingo Lake offers facilities of the
13 amenities that campers expect and need, not only
14 in the city but throughout the nation. We -- in
15 our office, we have calls come in daily from
16 across the country of people wondering where to
17 camp in Florida, and we tell them Jacksonville
18 is a great place to go. And when they go to
19 Jacksonville, they need to go to Flamingo Lake.
20 We have not had one that hasn't been
21 extremely satisfied with the park. It is a
22 beautiful park and it needs to stay that way.
23 And I just hope that you-all take into
24 consideration what this type of business could
25 do to the facility of Flamingo Lake. I've seen
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1 hundreds of campgrounds all around the nation,
2 and whenever this type of warehouse or
3 industrial facility goes up near a park, it does
4 make the park decline significantly. Pretty
5 soon residents -- not residents -- campers will
6 not come, rates may lower, and that brings in
7 the clientele that you don't want.
8 Right now you've got a very respectful,
9 nice park, that brings in top-notch campers,
10 active families, people with money that spend a
11 lot of money in not only Duval County, but
12 around the state.
13 We estimate that over $500 are spent on a
14 three-day camping trip. And this park is filled
15 basically year-round, so it is generating
16 millions and millions of dollars for
17 Jacksonville, and we just hope you take that
18 into consideration.
19 And I think it's to the benefit of not only
20 the city but also for the residents here because
21 it proves a tremendous asset that they need and
22 want, and hopefully it will continue to be able
23 to have for years to come.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
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1 Our next speaker is Jimmie Green, followed
2 by Mr. Troutman.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
6 My name is Jimmie Green. I live at 12351
7 V.C. Johnson Road.
8 I rise with the perception that I'm not as
9 important as some of the others. And I don't
10 need to clarify, but I have two things that I
11 need to clarify.
12 One -- the first thing is to Mr. Harden,
13 that I can eliminate and bring some closure to
14 his thoughts. We are in opposition of his
15 warehouse project.
16 Number two is, I am a resident of
17 Jacksonville, Florida, and a taxpayer. Okay.
18 Matter of fact -- and that's the thing that I'm
19 not proud of. I'm not pleased with -- last year
20 I paid $6,999 in real estate taxes. I'm not
21 pleased with that, but I bought my property in
22 hopes that I was going to a residential area.
23 I was told that the area that I had moved
24 in was residential, but now I'm finding out that
25 some committee has changed that to allow
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1 warehousing to come in.
2 First of all, now, I am really in a
3 situation because my quality of life has been
4 changed. Some folks say it will change if the
5 warehouse come. It has already been changed.
6 I'm already concerned about this issue. I'm
7 already not sleeping about this issue.
8 Matter of fact, I'm here tonight, which I
9 would not have been, and simply because of the
10 issue.
11 I'm asking you-all to consider -- you know,
12 I heard what all of us have said tonight, but
13 I'm hoping that you will consider not approving
14 the project at all.
15 I'm not concerned about the berms, I'm not
16 concerned about the barriers. I'm concerned
17 about residential. That's what I paid for, and
18 that's in hopes of what I'm going to be able to
19 live with.
20 Now, how will that affect me? I think
21 someone feel that it may not affect us because
22 we're in Angel Lake. Well, I beg to differ.
23 First of all, I know how noisy it is also
24 to be in a warehouse. I know what goes on in a
25 warehouse. I know the trucks, I know the
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1 forklifts and all of these things. Now -- and
2 also what comes with that is people. And it's
3 good that the other people want the trucks
4 rather than the cars. I prefer cars. Just my
5 preference.
6 But I also prefer folk that -- of quality.
7 Now, what will the warehouse have? I don't
8 know, but I heard on the other meeting that
9 there are approximately 5,000 employees planned
10 for that warehouse. Now, what are they going to
11 be like? What are they going to do when they
12 get there? Those are the things that I need an
13 answer for.
14 But I would love to see my property
15 increase in value other than decrease in value,
16 and I'm thinking now that there's a great
17 possibility that my property will decrease in
18 value. And if that is not true, then I need
19 someone to please help me understand that.
20 Okay. I appreciate y'all allowing us the
21 opportunity to speak.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 That was Mr. Green. Mr. Troutman, followed
25 by Carmen Spates.
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
3 My name is Kelvin Troutman. I live at
4 12319 V.C. Johnson Road.
5 I'm here tonight to discuss this matter
6 about the warehouse. In the last meeting we
7 had, the lawyer said that the Northside was
8 targeted for warehouse. Well, if you approve
9 this, this area, this one warehouse -- and I
10 don't know if the other neighbors know that
11 they're going to put more warehouses along the
12 area that we live in.
13 All right. So just like this illustration
14 of the warehouse -- well, I live on the other
15 side of that. All right. That -- I'll see that
16 big, old warehouse, and I don't have no trees.
17 And I don't know if any of you've been in
18 woods or a wooded area before where you can yell
19 and scream and it echoes, because just like my
20 neighbors have cookouts, I can hear kids and I
21 can be in my backyard, it's just like they're
22 next door to me. Just imagine what it will be
23 like when they have forklifts, trucks running,
24 5,000 people working and coming. It's going to
25 be noisy.
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1 Not only that, this area where we're living
2 at, it was -- it was a cow pasture. Well, we've
3 got four other areas were cow pastures.
4 So when you pull this, what are you going
5 to do? Put more warehouses in the other four
6 areas where we be surrounded by all warehouses.
7 And what about our quality of life?
8 I don't know about Hickem [sic], the other
9 areas, but it's going to affect us, it's going
10 to affect everyone that lives on the Northside.
11 If you continue to approve one, what about
12 the next one that's going to come? You already
13 said that Lem Turner is the corridor for the
14 port. So what are residents supposed to do?
15 Just move out and leave the area, the quality of
16 life?
17 I just want that take into consideration
18 that it's very nice to live in a wooded area and
19 not to have to deal with it. I could probably
20 deal with the fact of residential, more
21 townhouses of some nature.
22 But to be in your backyard or be home
23 listening, and to hear forklifts, beep, beep,
24 beep all night long, what about that?
25 Thank you for your time.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Next speaker is Carmen Spates, followed by
3 John Scott.
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
7 My name is Carmen Spates, and I reside at
8 12390 V.C. Johnson Road.
9 And I'd like to thank the council for
10 allowing me the opportunity to speak today about
11 this ordinance.
12 I am also president of the Angel Lakes
13 Homeowners Association, and there are a couple
14 of reasons why we are not in support of this
15 ordinance. One of the reasons is, you know,
16 there's the potential threat of our property
17 values decreasing.
18 The other reason is that -- I want to take
19 a few minutes to use this chart, if I could.
20 Mr. Harden has stated that Angel Lakes
21 would not be impacted by this. And in some form
22 or fashion that may be true, but there's another
23 piece to this puzzle.
24 There's a property -- there's property
25 that's located on Angel Lakes Drive that is
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1 currently up for sale. That property was owned
2 by Kenneth Coleman.
3 Another one of our concerns is what's the
4 likelihood -- sorry. What's the likelihood of
5 that property being sold to a developer who's
6 interested in light industrial?
7 So with that being said, that would put us
8 at a risk of having noise, that would put us at
9 a risk of 24/7 traffic, and that would also put
10 us at a risk of using Angel Lakes Drive and also
11 V.C. Johnson Road as the access point.
12 I'd also like to go on record as saying
13 that -- you know, don't get us wrong. We do
14 support growth for Jacksonville and we do
15 recognize that there is a need for industrial in
16 some form or fashion. We just simply prefer
17 that industrial is in an area that is zoned for
18 industrial and not with the -- a proposal to
19 rezone residential property.
20 In my closing statement, I would like to
21 turn in -- we did receive petition signatures
22 from residents that live in Angel Lakes. And
23 the total count we got was 35, and I'd like to
24 turn that in to our district councilperson. If
25 I may.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Councilwoman Lee.
2 MS. LEE: We can put it in the record and
3 I'll get a copy.
4 MS. SPATES: Okay. Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 John Scott, followed by Benny Moore.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening to the
10 council.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Pull that microphone up.
12 Bend it on up there. There you go.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Oh, okay.
14 Good evening to the council.
15 My name is John Scott. I live at 12327
16 V.C. Johnson Road.
17 My concerns this evening is the warehouse.
18 I've been at 12327 V.C. Johnson Road for the
19 last six years.
20 Now, I just want to ask each councilman
21 sitting here tonight -- for six years it's been
22 residential. Put yourself in my shoes.
23 Tomorrow in your neighborhood they say a
24 warehouse is coming up. How would you feel? I
25 don't think you would feel happy about that.
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1 I just ask you to search your heart tonight
2 and think very hard and long about the residents
3 of Angel Lakes.
4 And thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 Benny Moore, followed by -- I think it's
7 Meta Parkinson.
8 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
11 My name is Benny Moore, Sr., and I live at
12 12555 Angel Lake Drive.
13 And to the chairperson and other members of
14 the council, I'm going to talk about my water
15 table. I am concerned that if you have a light
16 industrial warehousing, you're going to have
17 some trucks taking some stuff that may be
18 contaminants.
19 We're all on well water. And if something
20 seeps into the ground, it gets into our well
21 water. And as we know -- and I don't want to
22 bring up other areas other than the fact that
23 Hipps Road is one that you think -- come to
24 mind. People start having cancer out there.
25 I'm concerned about the health issue that might
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1 come from this situation, for an accident may
2 come from this light industrial warehousing
3 usage.
4 My other thing is, as everyone else has
5 stated, the property value has my concern. I
6 bought a house in an area which is a pretty
7 upscale area as far as I'm concerned, and it was
8 aesthetically pleasing. There was nature all
9 around. Do you realize this past spring there
10 was two geese that laid eggs in my backyard, and
11 the little geeseling -- or gosling, or however
12 you pronounce it, they are now walking around in
13 my yard. There was a fox, there were deers.
14 Can you imagine the noise from this light
15 industrial warehousing causing these animals to
16 disappear? Even from the fact that the housing
17 is being built, our deers have gone away. But
18 at least we have that. And we'd like to keep
19 that nature part of it.
20 I oppose vehemently this light industrial
21 warehousing because it will impact my quality of
22 life and the quality of life of everyone in that
23 area. We will no longer see that skunk, we will
24 no longer see those geese, and the ducks will be
25 gone.
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1 So vote against this. We don't need it.
2 The Northside is growing by leaps and
3 bounds. We don't need to be a light industrial
4 warehousing district. And believe it or not,
5 that noise is going to be with you all the time,
6 not just during the 3,400 hours he quoted us of
7 being -- moving back and forth.
8 So I implore you and ask you to support us
9 in opposition of this particular project.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 Meta Parkinson, followed by Chris Burkhart.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Meta
17 Parkinson. I live at 4547 Merson Lane in Murray
18 Hill in Jacksonville.
19 I come to speak against this rezoning as a
20 resident of Jacksonville who enjoys RVing. My
21 husband and I love to go to Flamingo Lake. As
22 we have gone to many RV resorts all over the
23 country, we find that the quality of their
24 amenities and their attention to detail, and
25 also the closeness to our home, given the
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1 current gas prices -- it doesn't cost us $400 to
2 get somewhere to camp.
3 The light industrial encroachment on this
4 property would be detrimental to the overall
5 atmosphere of this resort. It lies close to
6 295. But when you camp at Flamingo Lake, you
7 can hear some of the trucks, but not many.
8 I am concerned with the idea of Lem Turner
9 being a corridor for the port. And if the
10 people who have spoken for this keep speaking of
11 how quiet their neighborhoods are and how
12 peaceful everything is there --
13 I live close to Roosevelt, near Campus
14 where the trains and the trucks go by every
15 day. And from my house, which is almost
16 200 yards from Roosevelt, those trucks and their
17 brakes and what have you can wake you up out of
18 a sound sleep. So I think that Lem Turner will
19 be in for a grand surprise when all the trucks
20 that will support this large number of
21 warehouses will be going up and down their
22 road.
23 The Northside is a beautiful area. It has
24 experienced phenomenal growth in the past. And
25 over near the airport there are tremendous
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1 amounts of light industrial areas, and I think
2 you could choose a better place.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 Chris Burkhart is our final speaker.
6 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
8 My name is Chris Burkhart. I live at 11367
9 Scenic Point Circle.
10 My neighborhood is not on the -- any of
11 these maps that they're showing, but it is -- it
12 is going to be affected. I don't know why they
13 wouldn't show it.
14 A map I saw that doesn't have -- it's
15 proposed road. I live down in here
16 (indicating), in a neighborhood that's right off
17 of Dunn, and one of the proposed roads to get
18 into this park for the employees -- not for the
19 trucks, but the employees -- goes right up my
20 street.
21 We just bought just less than a year ago.
22 Most everybody in the neighborhood hasn't been
23 there that long. The neighborhood is not that
24 old. But when we bought, we bought into a
25 residential neighborhood.
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1 We bought knowing that we're going to have
2 more houses in the area and more -- it's
3 growing, but we didn't buy into a commercial
4 lot. We didn't buy into commercial traffic. We
5 didn't buy into traffic that's going to be going
6 in all hours of the night because industrial
7 traffic -- industrial zones like that don't shut
8 down at 5 o'clock when everybody else does.
9 They're going nonstop, 24/7.
10 A lot of kids in the neighborhood. I swear
11 there's more kids every week. You look down the
12 street and -- somebody else that you never saw
13 before.
14 So anyway, I just want you to think about
15 that. There's just a lot of people that didn't
16 buy into an industrial neighborhood. Please
17 keep that in mind. And we definitely oppose
18 this.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 I see no further speakers, so we'll go
22 ahead and close that public hearing.
23 Councilmember Webb --
24 MR. HARDEN: Don't I get my rebuttal?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Mr. Harden does
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1 have a right for some rebuttal. I'm sorry.
2 Let me finish with the public hearing and
3 then we'll go to questions.
4 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: You can call a speaker back
6 up, that would be fine, but we'll go ahead and
7 finish the public hearing.
8 MR. HARDEN: Let me start with Mr. Burkhart.
9 The road that you saw, Mr. Burkhart, is
10 off --
11 MS. LEE: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Help me
12 here. I wanted to ask the last speaker a
13 question. And usually if a member of the body
14 has a question of a speaker, usually they're
15 allowed to ask that question.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Typically, we finish the
17 public hearing and then we bring up speakers.
18 I have questions for some of the speakers
19 too. I'm just going to wait until we hear all
20 the evidence because my question may get
21 answered by other speakers. So I want to wait
22 until the end and then come back and ask
23 questions of the speakers.
24 MR. HARDEN: The road Mr. Burkhart
25 referenced is not in our subdivision. It's in
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1 the existing single-family subdivision. Our
2 only access is the one that's shown on 120-foot
3 boulevard location, and it's cut off with this
4 proposal.
5 Let me address first the comments of the
6 Flamingo Park. The two issues they've raised
7 are the noise and the buffer. Their RV park is
8 about 75 feet away from I-295. The right-of-way
9 for 295 touches their parcel of land.
10 Right now there's about 120,000 trips that
11 go along that location, according to our count.
12 I cannot imagine that an industrial park set off
13 twice as far away with a 10-foot berm in the
14 middle -- in between, is going to cause less --
15 or more noise than that current situation.
16 We don't want to shut down Angel -- I
17 mean -- excuse me. We don't want to shut down
18 Flamingo Lake. We want to be fair to a
19 commercial operation at that location. But in
20 fairness, it isn't backed up currently to Hanna
21 Park. It isn't backed up to the Blue Ridge
22 Mountains. It's next to I-295. And that's
23 where they chose to be, and that's because they
24 want the traffic coming off there.
25 But don't fool yourself. This isn't a
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1 peaceful location. It's next to a major
2 interstate that travels along the way.
3 Now, also the current zoning backed up to
4 them -- use the picture Mr. Birchfield used.
5 The current zoning allows 10 feet away townhomes
6 45 feet in the air. Now, is that more of an
7 intrusion or a 40-foot building set back
8 185 feet with a 10-foot berm in the way?
9 So the fact of the matter is they're not
10 suggesting the reality of the situation.
11 They're next to an interstate now, there's a lot
12 of noise at that location. They currently have
13 next door to them, zoned 10 feet away, a 45-foot
14 townhome. And we're going to improve the
15 situation by moving back 185 feet.
16 Again, the fact of the matter is those are
17 issues that will be brought up when we deal with
18 the planned unit development on the site.
19 I redesigned it using what their original
20 proposal was, trying to comply as much as
21 possible. Shutting off access to Newcomb Road,
22 shutting off -- moving back -- putting in the
23 10-foot berm and moving back 185 feet.
24 So I wish you'd remember what the zoning is
25 they have behind them now and what the other
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1 conditions are at the site.
2 Now, the other folks who spoke or live in
3 the Angel Lakes subdivision --
4 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
5 MR. HARDEN: To the nearest property line
6 of Angel Lakes is 1,464 feet. To the nearest
7 house is another 600 feet. They're 2,000 feet
8 away as the crow flies. But remember, their
9 subdivision doesn't access on Lem Turner Road
10 like all these folks are going to be affected.
11 So the question is, do you pay attention to
12 the folks who are severely affected by 3,400
13 trips a day coming down Hemlock or someone who
14 has access a mile and a half away as you drive a
15 vehicle and offset by over 2,000 feet?
16 In all due respect, that subdivision is not
17 going to be affected by the activity that's
18 almost a quarter of a mile away as the crow
19 flies.
20 Shame on Mr. Green to talk about the people
21 who are going to work in these warehouses.
22 These are 60-, 70-, $80,000 a year jobs. It is
23 a target industry for the City of Jacksonville.
24 They're trying to bring good jobs here. And I
25 don't know -- I don't know what the suggestion
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1 is, that they won't be folks of quality, or what
2 the people who work there -- in the warehouses
3 are going to be.
4 But the fact of the matter is these are
5 targeted jobs for the City of Jacksonville and
6 high paying jobs, the type of jobs that the port
7 is trying to be there -- bring there.
8 We would respectfully request that you
9 listen to the folks who are affected. We are
10 willing to do whatever the Planning Department
11 says we should do to buffer off the other
12 commercial activity in the corner.
13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
15 Seeing no further speakers, the public
16 hearing is closed.
17 Mr. Webb, you're first in the queue, but
18 it's in Ms. Lee's district.
19 MR. WEBB: (Inaudible.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ms. Lee.
21 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 Mr. Chairman, first of all, let me -- I
23 have a couple -- well, first of all, I am moving
24 for deferral of this item. And the reason,
25 Mr. Chairman -- I have many reasons why I'm
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1 seeking the deferral.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that a formal motion,
3 Ms. Lee? Are you moving to defer?
4 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, let me first say to
5 you, Mr. Chairman, I probably need to -- I don't
6 know if anybody heard, but I came over to your
7 chair earlier. And I guess I should --
8 certainly it wasn't personal. I asked if you
9 would consider deferring it for me, and you
10 stated that you wouldn't. And I understand.
11 And I asked you why, and you said because you
12 didn't want to.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: No. My answer was it's part
14 of a series and I wanted to move forward with
15 the series.
16 MS. LEE: But that's not a requirement,
17 though.
18 But, Mr. Chairman, if I could just take a
19 minute. Let me -- let me -- let me say this:
20 There was a gentleman who said something that
21 was so true in the speaker's comments earlier --
22 I'm going to start off by saying this is my
23 district. I do represent the area. And I'm
24 going to try to be as brief as possible. I know
25 that you have something to do, and I've made
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1 notes to try to stay on the issue.
2 The gentleman earlier -- I think his name
3 was Mr. Hunt. He made a point. He said that he
4 did not think that the people at Flamingo Lakes
5 should say anything about this because they
6 didn't live here.
7 Well, let me say this. As the district
8 councilperson, I feel that I have been terribly
9 disrespected by Mr. Harden, who totally
10 circumvented me and had a barbecue on Hemlock
11 Road and did not invite me as the district
12 councilperson.
13 And I have been elected by the people. Not
14 appointed, not hired, but I was elected. And I
15 would say this to all of my constituents,
16 whether you like Denise Lee or not, there are
17 principles that should be applied to everything,
18 whether you're for this or whether you're
19 against it. There's certain principles that I
20 believe -- because today it might be this issue,
21 but it could be something in your neighborhood
22 that could affect you for the rest of your
23 life.
24 So I would just say, always make sure that
25 if there's an elected person, at least have the
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1 courtesy to try and contact them and speak with
2 them, whether you are for them or not.
3 I would never, ever, ever circumvent an
4 elected person if I were a constituent because
5 somebody decided that they wanted to host a
6 barbecue and not even give the district
7 councilperson the courtesy of calling the office
8 to see if my schedule met where I could come out
9 as well. And invite the Planning Department out
10 so that if the constituents had questions. It's
11 not a matter of whether you support it or oppose
12 it, it's just to allow the facts to be given.
13 That's all.
14 So I wanted to go on record also -- and
15 Mr. Chairman, we need to clear this up so I can
16 move on.
17 Now, I have -- I have sat here and I have
18 said to myself, Denise, remember, this is
19 political, that you are a part of a political
20 body, and you don't make this personal. But
21 when comments are made, that people are
22 referenced as something for the opposing team --
23 I resent it when Mr. Harden referred to the
24 people as trailer trash. And he and I got in an
25 argument about it, but I didn't go on record
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1 before. So that --
2 Let's just remember, even swap, even
3 swindle. We shouldn't be calling anybody
4 names. Everybody is somebody. Everybody
5 deserves a quality of life.
6 So I just want to make sure, whoever
7 comments in the future, that we stick to the
8 issue and we not refer to people and make this
9 personal.
10 Now, the reason that I am opposing this --
11 not opposing it, but asking for the deferral is
12 quite simple. Mr. Harden stated that six months
13 ago he met with me. That is not true.
14 Mr. Harden, maybe three months ago, came to
15 me and asked me if I would support an
16 application that he was putting in, and there
17 was not much to it. And I said to him, "Paul,
18 tell me about it." He said, "It's really
19 nothing. I really don't need to talk to you."
20 And I said "Well, okay."
21 Paul does a lot of zonings. I had no
22 reason to think that there was anything to it.
23 Then I started getting calls from people on
24 Percy Road because there was this sign over
25 there and they thought I was the district
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1 councilperson. I don't know.
2 Then I started getting calls. And I called
3 Mr. Harden and said, "Paul, I need to talk to
4 you." I said, "I'm getting calls and people are
5 upset. And I thought what you told me, it would
6 be okay."
7 I guess I should have done a little more
8 homework. I didn't know that 315 acres were
9 going to be turned into warehouses. I did not
10 know that 5,000 to 8,000 cars would be going
11 down a road on a daily basis.
12 So I asked Paul Harden to meet with me, and
13 we went and we rode the property. And I shared
14 with Mr. Harden at that particular time, "Hold
15 it. This train needs to stop." And the reason
16 I said to Mr. Harden it needed to stop -- if you
17 look at this map right here, you all --
18 And I know that it's been said, and I said
19 it to the Planning Commission, it was no need
20 for me to come because Mr. Harden had the
21 votes. And I was also told that there was no
22 need for me to attempt to even talk to this
23 committee.
24 Well, we're all political and I understand
25 the business and I understand lobbying, but I'm
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1 still here.
2 If you look at this, there's another
3 application, and it's one below. It's item 44.
4 It's the Thomas Creek development. And my
5 concern -- I called Mr. Sean Kelly and I asked
6 Mr. Kelly if he would please come to my office,
7 because all of a sudden I'm being bombarded by
8 warehouses I didn't know. I felt naked because
9 Mr. Harden had told me one thing, people are
10 calling, and now there's a Thomas Creek
11 development. And that development also was
12 requesting light industrial.
13 So I said, "Well, wait a minute. Let's
14 just hold this train."
15 Mr. Sean Kelly came to my office and he
16 educated me about some things that I did not
17 know. In the midst of Mr. Sean Kelly educating
18 me, Mr. -- a gentlemen who I didn't know that
19 well -- Killingsworth and Brad Thoburn were
20 coming down the hall and I asked them to come
21 into my office. And God be my witness, they
22 agreed that this was a problem.
23 If you look here in what's in this
24 greenish-blue -- and for the committee members
25 that even made up their mind, I just wish you
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1 would please listen to what I'm saying.
2 You see how close those two are together?
3 Now, if you look down here (indicating),
4 this is what is current. And it says in 2004
5 this was done. There were neighborhood meetings
6 and the people in the area were told that this
7 was going to be residential, this (indicating).
8 Mr. Harden is proposing -- if you look at
9 this, just look at it -- is proposing to take
10 all of this LDR, this whole block and turn it
11 into warehouses. That's not good.
12 The Thomas Creek development is up here
13 (indicating). At least they are attempting to
14 use some type of multiuse.
15 It has been said that this area has been
16 targeted for light industrial. Everybody on
17 this committee is zoning intelligent. Look at
18 this, gentlemen. Tell me anything you see on
19 this map that's currently proposed -- look at
20 it. It's right here (indicating). Not one
21 thing speaks of IL.
22 And this was done under your watch,
23 Mr. Corrigan, Mr. Shad, and Mr. Clark, whoever
24 was here in 2004, whoever was here in 2005, and
25 whoever was here in 2006. It's right there.
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1 So Mr. Harden's statements that this is
2 targeted for IL is erroneous. It is just not.
3 If you look here -- I had them to do
4 another map. Look at this. I wanted to know
5 how what they were proposing to do would
6 overlap. And look at it, gentlemen. Look right
7 here (indicating). Look how close that is.
8 Is it fair to put that much IL in one
9 area? Look at it. It's right there in front of
10 you. The Planning Department, gentlemen, first
11 made a recommendation to deny this amendment.
12 It's right here, gentlemen. And in the middle
13 of the night, it was changed to approve it.
14 I've been told that it is not unusual, but
15 it's unusual when I talked to the planning
16 director who says to me that this is too much
17 and this really shouldn't be.
18 And when Mr. Killingsworth, who stood in my
19 office -- he didn't make a commitment, but he is
20 responsible for land use that says it looks
21 funny.
22 I asked in the Planning Commission meeting
23 some questions, and I'm not going to ask staff
24 because Mr. Kresel really wasn't able to ask
25 [sic] them, but these were some questions I
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1 asked:
2 I would like for the Planning Department to
3 please tell me the land use categories and the
4 actual uses that surround this property. Aren't
5 they all residential except for the land owned
6 by the airport on the north side of the
7 property? Mr. Kresel's answer was yes.
8 The Planning Department, in your original
9 staff report of denial, you stated that
10 historically the character of the area has been
11 consistent with residential development patterns
12 and that the property is landlocked and
13 surrounded by residential dwellings.
14 Gentlemen, it's right here. It's staring
15 you in the face.
16 So please explain to me how changing this
17 property to light industrial is consistent with
18 the surrounding uses. It is not. I think this
19 issue is about light industrial versus
20 residential.
21 We are being asked to change our future
22 land use map, which is a policy decision.
23 Regardless of what the developer says he is
24 going to do on his site plan in the future, the
25 real issue is whether light industrial uses are
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1 compatible with the surrounding residential
2 area. And the answer is no.
3 Mr. Chairman, I know people always say,
4 let's just send this to DCA and we will work on
5 the details later. As Mr. Corrigan said to me,
6 it's a part of this. That's to suggest that
7 there is some rule that says, when these come
8 up, they have to go out. That is just not true.
9 There were a couple of other questions I
10 had, gentlemen.
11 The Planning Department, in your original
12 staff report, you stated that this application
13 is inconsistent with the North Jacksonville
14 Vision Plan because it would interject light
15 industrial into a residential area. So what has
16 changed now? That's what was said on a Friday.
17 On a Monday it changed to something else.
18 This is the Planning Department's report,
19 not mine.
20 Planning Department, in your original staff
21 report, you stated that on 317 acres the
22 developer could put in over 5 million square
23 feet of light industrial uses. Would any of us
24 want to see that in our neighborhood?
25 Now, tell me what is the maximum number of
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1 residential units that could go there right
2 now? Mr. Kresel wasn't able to give me that
3 information. I'm sure that the Planning
4 Department has come up with something at this
5 point.
6 Mr. Chairman and members, I think the
7 potential negative impacts of over 5 million
8 square feet of LI uses compared to the impacts
9 of residential development are easy to
10 understand. Regardless of what the developer
11 wants to do on his site plan with buffers or
12 landscaping, we are dealing with the policy
13 decision of whether LI should go on this site.
14 I think the right policy decision is to
15 defer this or, at a minimum, until the next
16 cycle so we can see if their proposals would
17 work next to a residential area.
18 One speaker said, who's in support, he
19 feels that warehousing will have less impact.
20 There is no way that 315 acres of warehouse will
21 not have an impact on your property. Not only
22 will it have an impact on your roads, you don't
23 know who's driving the trucks.
24 I asked the question at the Flamingo Lake
25 community meeting that I was invited to -- I
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1 wasn't there for or against. One man who's not
2 here from Hemlock Road said, "Well, what's going
3 to be in the warehouses?"
4 Mr. Harden got up and attempted to define
5 LI. I said, "Paul, don't give them the
6 definition. If you don't know what's going to
7 be in the warehouse, then say it." And
8 Mr. Harden said he did not know what was going
9 to be in the warehouses.
10 The question of security came up. Three
11 hundred and fifteen acres, 5 million square feet
12 of warehousing, and you won't tell the people
13 what's going to be in it.
14 Mr. Harden -- originally it was supposed to
15 be 35-foot buildings. Now it's 40 feet. What
16 about the lighting? It's a 24-hour operation.
17 I think those questions need to be answered.
18 So I would say to the supporters, it will
19 have an impact. I've been a City Councilman for
20 17 years, and I'm going on my 18th year. I have
21 no reason to misrepresent the truth. I care
22 about you. And my only quest is to make sure
23 that the information that's given to you is
24 accurate. That's all. I don't have a dog in
25 this fight.
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1 Someone said the quietness of the
2 neighborhood. How can you have 315 acres of
3 warehouses with trucks steady going in and out
4 and that's going to be quiet? I -- it's not
5 going to be quiet, but I think something could
6 be worked out.
7 Someone said that landowners should support
8 this property and not renters. Well, I will say
9 for this, I was elected and I feel that it is my
10 job to get the facts and present them to you.
11 And you do what you want to do after that, but
12 you have not been given the facts, gentlemen.
13 I had prepared -- I want to address a
14 couple of things. Mr. Harden said that he had a
15 letter from the Chamber. I've always been a big
16 supporter of the Chamber. It would have been
17 nice for them to at least try to contact me to
18 get my opinion on this as the representative of
19 the area.
20 All of us are City Councilpeople. We
21 expect that kind of respect. It's just
22 principle, nothing to do with personality. It
23 is just principle.
24 I spoke to Mr. John Clark because it was
25 stated that the airport was in support of this
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1 and that they would provide road frontage or
2 whatever. Mr. Clark said that is not true, that
3 he had not made a commitment to anybody. He
4 said the only thing that they were dealing with
5 was the Whitehouse issue.
6 What is it called on here? My name is on
7 the bill. I can't think of it. Where we all
8 signed on about the -- the Part 10 or something
9 like that. He said that was the only thing that
10 there was a commitment from the airport.
11 All of you know that I know Mr. Harden, and
12 I know most of the developers that come before
13 this council. I was here for 17 years. And I
14 understand zoning as well as anybody. And I
15 understand that if you take 315 acres --
16 You say you're worried about what type of
17 people are going to be in your neighborhood. It
18 is something to worry about if you have truckers
19 coming in and out. You should be worried.
20 We talk about buffers. I think it's only
21 fair that if this goes through, it's worked out,
22 that the Flamingo Lake residents should have the
23 buffer that they request. It is not
24 unreasonable.
25 The other point that I would like to
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1 make -- and I'm preparing for my closing
2 remarks, Mr. Chairman. Let's take this map one
3 more time. I have a list here and I'm going to
4 ask Mr. Campbell to help me out with this.
5 I'm going to be honest with you, I was
6 very, very -- I am very concerned why the
7 Planning Department changed their
8 recommendation. This Planning Department has
9 been very accurate. Mr. John Crofts is one of
10 the best planners around. He has the
11 experience. Everybody sitting up here, that's a
12 planner, is a real planner. And they did their
13 homework.
14 I know why it was changed, but I won't go
15 there.
16 I asked our Research Department to tell me
17 how many times that the Planning Department
18 within X number of years had denied and that
19 this City Council approved. And I asked
20 specifically Mr. Harden's applications that were
21 denied by the Planning Department but the
22 council overrode those. I have the information
23 right here. It's astounding. It is something
24 to be concerned about. This was done by our
25 Research Department.
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1 The other issue: It is common that we have
2 these type of issues. Zoning is emotional.
3 Mr. Harden isn't doing any more than
4 Mr. Birchfield has done or Mr. Hainline and all
5 of the people who represent. I see Mr. Saylor.
6 Whomever. This is common. They represent
7 people.
8 But what is not common is that the district
9 councilperson would be worked around, that the
10 North CPAC was not even contacted.
11 I talked to Mr. Baker and I asked him. He
12 said the only developers that contacted them --
13 and they were in support of what they were
14 trying to do with conditions -- were the Thomas
15 Creek development people that came to their
16 meeting.
17 I was disappointed that the Planning
18 Commission -- it was like, oh, okay. We've
19 already made up our mind.
20 Here is a list of the North CPAC
21 development groups. These are people who pay
22 taxes.
23 Now, every one of us on this committee
24 that's a district councilman, we look to our
25 CPACs when we deal with our neighborhoods. We
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1 nay not always agree with them, but we give them
2 that kind of respect. I didn't even get that
3 kind of respect.
4 There was a meeting held I wasn't invited
5 to. My CPAC is being overlooked. Whether you
6 are for this or not, there's a process that we
7 all must follow.
8 The Northside has been the last side of
9 town to even get a Home Depot. I've been told
10 by developers that commercial development and
11 Targets and Wal-Marts and those kind of stores
12 go where rooftops are. I think I had that
13 conversation with Mr. Killingsworth.
14 And I know, Mr. Killingsworth, I've been
15 very emotional. And if I've said things to you
16 that were offensive, I apologize. I'm woman
17 enough to do that. But I was only going by the
18 things that were told to me. And when they were
19 changed, I just didn't understand.
20 If you -- at I-295 and Lem Turner,
21 gentlemen --
22 Mike, I'm trying to wrap it up because I
23 know you have something to do.
24 You have a Home Depot and you have a
25 Wal-Mart. That's it. Lowe's is at the
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1 airport. The people have been begging for a
2 Target.
3 Look at the map, gentlemen. Let's take a
4 good look at just not too long ago, a year ago.
5 Look at this. You-all did it. Nothing on here
6 say you all went to IL.
7 I understand that in this day and time,
8 because of the flop in the housing market, the
9 developers are trying to take their land and
10 save it financially. I understand what's
11 happening with IL, but should it be done --
12 Do you think for one minute that they would
13 put warehouses on Hendricks Avenue going into
14 San Jose? It wouldn't happen. You know why?
15 Because of residents.
16 Yes, there are a lot of woods. It's near
17 things, something. I'm sure -- I'm not
18 opposed. I understand about the port and the
19 seaport. But Jacksonville is the largest city
20 in land area in the country. Certainly there's
21 somewhere else they could put 315 acres of
22 warehouses.
23 And these developer aren't even willing to
24 compromise. They aren't even willing to look at
25 MU. It's all or nothing because it's been said
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1 we don't have to. All Denise is going to do is
2 talk.
3 And then -- Mr. Harden said something at
4 the Flamingo community meeting that was a little
5 disturbing, and I said to him -- he mentioned
6 about one of the City Councilmen e-mail that he
7 reads all the time. And he said that he knew
8 something because he had read a certain person's
9 e-mail. Now, let me say this to you all. I
10 know we have public disclosure, but that -- you
11 know, it -- it plants in my head a seed of
12 favoritism, that I don't have a chance.
13 Now, I know there are people on this
14 committee who may have already made up their
15 mind, so I will close by saying I would prefer
16 that this item be deferred for a couple of
17 reasons:
18 The CPAC has been left out. It is untrue
19 that this area is targeted for IL. John Clark
20 never told anybody that he had sent a letter of
21 commitment or committed to any kind of road
22 infrastructure improvements.
23 Paul Harden did not talk to me six months
24 ago. Why did the Planning Department change its
25 original recommendation?
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1 Mr. Killingsworth explained to me, he said,
2 "Well, we didn't have all the information at
3 that time." That may be true. But ladies and
4 gentlemen, there's some clear things on here
5 that the planning staff report -- and you just
6 don't go to bed and wake up and write this.
7 This takes time. This was researched. It is
8 inconsistent.
9 You know, I could make some personal
10 comments like Mr. Harden made relative to the
11 people and some things he said to me, and he
12 know what he said. But if I do that, that would
13 be getting personal. And I'm trying to take
14 every bone in my body not to get personal. But
15 this is personal. What's personal is that we do
16 what's right.
17 I would ask you-all -- and Mr. --
18 Mr. Chairman, you mentioned about sending it as
19 a package because of the other semiannual
20 revisions that are here. These developers
21 wouldn't even attempt to even put in conditions
22 on this, that the CPAC must be -- that the CPAC
23 must be contacted, that certain questions must
24 be answered.
25 I think that there should be conditions put
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1 on this if it is to move out of this committee,
2 but I would ask -- this doesn't go until
3 June 27th. We have a City Council meeting on
4 Tuesday. I would just ask for the opportunity,
5 once again, to attempt to work with the
6 developers to come up with some changes in this
7 before it goes on to DCA.
8 Eagle Bend Association, Dinsmore Civic
9 Association, SWAT representatives (phonetic),
10 New Berlin Enclave, New Hope Church of the
11 Nazarene, Ashwood Owners Association, Oak Lake
12 Point, Johnson Community, New Berlin, Cambridge
13 Estates, the Cape Association, Highlands
14 Homeowner Unit, Turtle Creek Village
15 Association, Woodmont Community Association,
16 Angel Lakes Community Association, Marshwinds
17 Homeowners Association, Black Hammock Island
18 Civic Association, Daybreak Woods Homeowners,
19 Northside Lyons, North Lake Homeowners
20 Association, White Shell Bay Homeowners, Golden
21 Oaks, Oakleaf Point, Heckscher Drive Community
22 Club, Jacksonville Estate Homeowners. They make
23 up the CPAC. Not one of these groups had an
24 opportunity to ask one question.
25 Now, if anything, if the CPACs are there to
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1 represent the neighborhoods, shouldn't these
2 people have a right to know what the CPAC
3 position is?
4 And I would just ask that since we have a
5 council meeting on Tuesday, I would like to try
6 one more time, one more time to try to get the
7 developers to reconsider what they're attempting
8 to do. It's right in front of you.
9 Look how close these two blues are,
10 you-all. That's too close. All of this
11 turning -- everybody is recommending warehouse.
12 Now, I -- even though I'm a City
13 Councilperson for 18 years, I too needed to be
14 educated. I didn't jump the gun. I didn't take
15 Mr. Birchfield's word. I didn't take
16 Mr. Harden's word. I picked up the phone and
17 called the staff. Shouldn't our staff be at
18 some of these community meetings?
19 I don't consider myself a zoning expert.
20 Do you all? Are you able to answer every zoning
21 question that a resident might have?
22 All I wanted was an opportunity to have the
23 kind of community meeting and the impact from
24 the CPAC so that valid questions could be
25 answered, whether you were for it or against
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1 it. Even the people that are for it should have
2 the right to ask us -- Mr. Kelly.
3 Mr. Kelly, how many roads are going to go
4 in here? We were told that Hemlock Road was not
5 going to be used. So if Hemlock Road is not
6 going to be used, then tell me where the 5- to
7 8,000 employees, what street are they going
8 down?
9 Mr. Resident, is it true that the Northside
10 Vision Plan -- that this is inconsistent? Is it
11 true, Mr. Staff Member, that this is
12 inconsistent with residential use?
13 Nothing on here, y'all. That's a lot of
14 trucks.
15 This can be worked out. I am your district
16 council representative, whether you like the way
17 I look or the way I talk, one thing you can bank
18 on is that I'm going to represent you, and I'm
19 going to do it right.
20 A lot of things I may not do, but I care.
21 And the way we're handling this is not the way
22 to handle it.
23 What is wrong with the developer meeting
24 with the CPACs that represent you? What is
25 wrong with your City Councilperson not -- isn't
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1 something wrong when your City Councilperson
2 isn't invited to a community meeting that
3 affects you?
4 The one thing I tell everybody is that it
5 might be you today, but it may be somebody else
6 tomorrow. You need to know what's going on in
7 your neighborhood. You need to ask the right
8 questions.
9 I've never known barbecues to be held to
10 deal with zoning, not in the history of me being
11 an elected representative. And I've served in
12 Tallahassee and Jacksonville, so I am pretty
13 experienced.
14 I am not against development. If you look
15 at the people that have supported me through the
16 years, it's been realtors, it's been develop- --
17 because I've been fair. The people haven't
18 always liked me supporting developers, but our
19 city is growing.
20 But, once again, I feel like the
21 Northside -- once again, let's just throw it
22 over there. Let's just throw it over there.
23 Nothing but trailer you know what, or you got
24 some people want to sell their land and we're
25 going to buy it.
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1 And finally -- this has been difficult for
2 me. I feel I'm much calmer than I was last week
3 or this week because I've had a chance to really
4 think about this and to think about what I was
5 going to say, to think about how to prepare
6 myself, and I've done the best I know how to do
7 without getting personal.
8 But they say you're never supposed to pat
9 yourself on the back. And the one thing I've
10 always stood for is I am a compromiser and I'm a
11 team player. But I have not compromised my
12 principles on this, and I'm sure it's going to
13 cause me a lot of grief from a lot of people.
14 I only have one vote. Some people may have
15 ten. This isn't personal.
16 I would just ask this committee to give me
17 an opportunity to try one more time. This does
18 not have to go out this evening. The council
19 meeting is Tuesday. The chairman could ask for
20 it to be pulled. But there are groups in the
21 area that have not gotten facts, and I'm just
22 asking if you-all would consider it.
23 If not, then I will continue to do what I
24 can to make this thing right. You will see
25 after we finish discussing this, you will see a
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1 big difference in how the other one was handled.
2 Mr. Chairman, it's a bad feeling, you
3 know -- and I guess this is where the politics
4 come in. And I said this to you, and if it was
5 offensive, I apologize.
6 I said to Mike, I said, you know, not too
7 long ago I supported you on something that was
8 really devastating and you wanted, and I
9 happened to be the swing vote. And so you know
10 how emotions do. You feel like somebody should
11 support you.
12 I take that back because we are all
13 individuals and you have the right to do
14 whatever. And I was up on your mic, so I don't
15 know if it was recorded. So I want to make sure
16 for the record.
17 These things are emotional, and I just --
18 was asking for a deferral. And if I offended
19 you in any way as well, I do apologize.
20 And I'll let my comments -- if I have to
21 respond to anything else, I would. I have a lot
22 of remarks and things that were said to me. I
23 was threatened. I was invited to a fight. But,
24 you know, I assume that was out of emotions.
25 I will say -- and Mr. Harden could vouch
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1 for this -- when I found out that Mr. Harden was
2 a partner, I said to Paul, I said, "Paul, had I
3 known that, I would have told you don't
4 represent this. Let somebody else do it,"
5 because perception is more destructive than
6 reality.
7 All I'm asking for is an opportunity just
8 to see if something can be done about the 315
9 acres that are being recommended to change all
10 the way.
11 Do we just want the Northside to be all
12 warehousing?
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Webb.
15 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Just to let you know, we're
17 not in a posture to do anything, so --
18 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
19 Through the Chair to -- well, you know,
20 this is one of the problems we have when we
21 consider a land use transmittal in the absence
22 of the zoning, but -- and we ultimately don't
23 know what this project is going to look like
24 until such time as the zoning comes before us.
25 There's 317.5 proposed here, but it's not even a
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1 proposal. It's something that's anticipated
2 sometime down the road perhaps.
3 Question for Mr. Harden, though.
4 Mr. Harden, you got a second?
5 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
6 MR. WEBB: How are you, sir?
7 MR. HARDEN: I'm sure that was a rhetorical
8 question.
9 MR. WEBB: I'm looking -- I'm looking at
10 the RV facility, and -- well, actually, I'm
11 looking north of that. You've got 845 feet
12 buffer, 815 down for Hemlock, and then you've
13 got 815 for Newcomb, and you've got a buck-85,
14 plus or minus, for the RV center.
15 Why is that? I mean, again, I assume that
16 all of the property that's in yellow is part of
17 the transmittal; is that correct?
18 MR. HARDEN: That's right.
19 The 317, but surrounding it's about
20 200 acres of buffer.
21 It's pretty simple. The RV park is a
22 commercial use. It is not typical that you
23 buffer off a commercial use from another use.
24 If there was a hotel there or if there was a
25 retail use, you know, all those would not
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1 require, you know, a substantial buffer.
2 When they sent me that letter, the term
3 sheet which you have, we redesigned the site
4 plan, we added in the agreement to do the
5 10-foot berm, and we went back 185 feet. They
6 asked for 200 feet. We went back 185 feet by
7 redesigning.
8 So, again, that's an issue we'll be happy
9 to deal with in the PUD. That's the time to
10 deal with it.
11 I don't think it's reasonable to buffer off
12 substantially a commercial use from another
13 commercial use. If the Planning Department
14 feels differently, that we should buffer those
15 two lots at the time it's reviewed, we'll be
16 happy to do it.
17 MR. WEBB: I heard what you're saying with
18 regards to the commercial use, but you've got to
19 weigh the equities in this particular situation
20 because it is a commercial use perhaps
21 technically. But, again, consider the
22 equities. It's not really a commercial use. I
23 mean, people are -- they're living there. I
24 mean, for all intents and purposes, I guess.
25 MR. HARDEN: Well, they're not supposed to
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1 be.
2 MR. WEBB: They're not supposed to be.
3 All right. And that's -- now -- that's all
4 I have.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 I actually have a question for one of the
7 speakers. I believe it was Mr. Robert Little.
8 Mr. Little, could you come back -- were you
9 the one that passed out this book?
10 MR. LITTLE: Yes, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: On page 6, there's two
12 pictures. I don't really understand what the
13 pictures are --
14 MR. LITTLE: That picture on the top is a
15 Google Earth picture taken several years ago.
16 The picture on the bottom is to show the
17 money and the improvements that we've put into
18 the resort and future plans on paving that area
19 that we have just recently added on the other
20 side of the lake, and that's due to the demand
21 the park has generated.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. I
23 appreciate it.
24 Councilmember Yarborough was next.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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1 I realize we're not in the right posture
2 for a debate on the bill. I won't ask the staff
3 questions yet. I'll just ask a couple of the
4 speakers up.
5 Mr. Fisher, Jr., I think it was.
6 MR. FISHER: Michael, yes, sir.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: If you could come up,
8 please.
9 (Mr. Fisher approaches the podium.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: And you're representing
11 the park; is that right, sir?
12 MR. FISHER: One of the owners, yes.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And this relates to
14 the issue -- it's adding into my decision here.
15 One of the ladies that came up -- I believe
16 it was Ms. Howell -- mentioned that there was a
17 problem with possibly garbage being thrown into
18 her yard from some of the folks that have been
19 in the park, and I just wanted to ask -- and it
20 does relate to the bill certainly.
21 But, you know, if that is a problem, is
22 that being addressed to folks that abut --
23 MR. FISHER: Absolutely.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: -- the RV park?
25 I mean, that just can't continue if it's
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1 happening out there.
2 MR. FISHER: We want to be the best -- not
3 only the best RV resort in North Florida, but we
4 want to be the best neighbors we can be.
5 And, as you know, Robert Little joined our
6 team here just recently. We solicited him. We
7 found out he was the best of the best, and he is
8 the best. And his policy on neighbors -- and
9 he's sending the olive branch to everyone and
10 doing whatever he can to ameliorate any problem
11 that a neighbor might have with our facility or
12 our guests -- is next to none.
13 We certainly are open -- we have a rapport
14 with our neighbors, and we are willing to be
15 flexible and do whatever they would like to
16 improve their quality of life as well.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. I appreciate that,
18 sir.
19 MR. FISHER: Thank you.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you.
21 Mr. Chairman, I'll wait until we are
22 actually in the right posture. I don't want us
23 to be outside of the process before I ask
24 questions that are pertinent to the merits of
25 the bill.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I don't have anybody
3 else in my queue. Do.
4 I have a motion on the bill?
5 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
8 on 2008-398.
9 Seeing no speakers on my queue on the bill,
10 Councilmember Yarborough.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you.
12 I just wanted to ask -- there were several
13 things that Councilwoman Lee said, and I just
14 wanted to get a little bit of clarification
15 here.
16 If there was a change in the Planning
17 Department's position, why is my question.
18 MR. CROFTS: I'm going to defer to
19 Bill Killingsworth on that.
20 MR. KILLINGSWORTH: To the Chair to the
21 Councilmember, the department initially had
22 three issues with this application. One was
23 meeting level of service for the roads, the
24 second was site access, and the third was
25 transitioning to the surrounding uses.
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1 It turns out that we didn't have an LOS
2 problem, so that issue went away.
3 Site access, the applicant informed us that
4 he's working on a northerly site access and has
5 stated so on the record.
6 If that's the case, he will not be allowed
7 to use Hemlock or Newcomb for this.
8 And the third item was transitional.
9 When he originally applied, it was for LI,
10 which is a conventional zoning. And it's for
11 the site in which he's actually doing the land
12 use change on right now.
13 Since that time, the applicant has come
14 back and has agreed to do a PUD, and I believe
15 the PUD will encompass the entire parcel as
16 opposed to just the piece that's being changed.
17 That essentially gives a substantial buffer
18 around the project, and the department felt that
19 that adequately addressed the issue.
20 But those design issues will have to take
21 place in the PUD. They won't take place in the
22 land use.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. So all that will be
24 tweaked when it comes back, if it comes back.
25 If we do that, then, in the PUD, that will
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1 be addressed -- all those details?
2 MR. KILLINGSWORTH: That's correct.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. I appreciate that.
4 Mr. Harden, if I could ask you a couple of
5 questions, please.
6 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: It was also mentioned
8 about the -- I guess the hours of operation, the
9 lighting, the noise, would it be a 24-hour
10 operation. I wanted to ask you about that.
11 And then also in regards to traffic. Can
12 you speak to those things? Lighting, noise,
13 stuff like that?
14 MR. HARDEN: As is typical -- first of all,
15 from any resident, we're almost 1,000 feet
16 away. So there won't be any lighting issues on
17 the residential. The only place that would
18 have, I guess, a lighting or noise issue would
19 be the other commercial operation which, again,
20 has I-95 next to it.
21 We will include in there -- I-295.
22 We will include in there noise attenuation
23 issues. This is very typical in most PUDs.
24 They require a lighting plan, that we have all
25 the lighting directed onto the site. Those are
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1 issues that we deal with in the PUD. We deal
2 with them on car dealerships, we deal with them
3 on Home Depots, we deal with them on Target, and
4 we'll deal with it in this project in the PUD.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Do you think it
6 will be more of an around-the-clock thing or
7 will it be more during the daytime?
8 MR. HARDEN: No. I think it will be a more
9 around-the-clock issue, yeah. And that's why
10 we're buffered back 1,000 feet off the site.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And then one of the
12 gentlemen mentioned -- and I think you spoke to
13 it in your rebuttal, as far as the -- and I
14 think you said it wasn't actually part of it,
15 the possible employee entrance off of, I guess,
16 Dunn Avenue. But, in fact --
17 MR. HARDEN: No, that's just not right. We
18 don't have access --
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Is that going to be off of
20 Lem Turner?
21 MR. HARDEN: It's going to be off --
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: It's not going to be off
23 of Dunn Avenue?
24 MR. HARDEN: We don't have any access off
25 Dunn Avenue. None.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay.
2 MR. HARDEN: We don't own land to
3 Dunn Avenue. Our access will be the boulevard
4 entrance that we have proposed.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. I appreciate that.
6 Thank you.
7 MR. HARDEN: Yes, sir.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: I guess just two or three
9 quick comments, Mr. Chairman.
10 This -- I've been looking over this for
11 several days, and I wanted to -- I wanted to
12 hear what Ms. Lee had to say.
13 I did meet with Mr. Harden the other day to
14 talk about this, and I know how -- I know how
15 sensitive the nature and issue like this
16 is, especially being in a district
17 councilperson's -- well, obviously everything is
18 in a district, but with the representative being
19 on one side or the other.
20 There were a few things that I heard during
21 it that is fueling what my decision is tonight.
22 One thing is that with the current allowance out
23 there, what is currently allowed, as was said --
24 or townhomes that could be 10 feet away and
25 potentially 45 feet tall. That was one thing.
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1 And this will change if this is approved as
2 we're being told it would be.
3 The other thing is that all the traffic
4 would be on a new road that would be put in
5 north of the Hemlock Road properties, so it
6 would not come right through where those
7 existing homes are.
8 And then the other two things are, this can
9 still be tweaked before it's actually approved
10 in the PUD when it comes back for the actual
11 rezoning.
12 The next thing I'd like to say is something
13 that's very difficult, and I don't want my
14 colleague, Ms. Lee, to in any way think I'm --
15 I've tried to take the person- -- the
16 personality factor, the emotional factor out of
17 it.
18 I know when Mr. Bishop and I were very
19 adamant about our airport issue over in East
20 Arlington, that we were very concerned about the
21 impact, the surrounding properties. And it was
22 very hard as a district representative to stand
23 up and to fight for our folks over there. It
24 was very, very difficult, even at the
25 transmittal time. And then we realized it would
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1 go over and then it would come back and we would
2 have an opportunity again to address that. And
3 it was very, very difficult.
4 I told Mr. Harden that I would not support
5 this unless adequate buffers would be given to
6 the folks in Flamingo Lake and that every effort
7 possible should be made to readjust the
8 configuration of the buildings and the footprint
9 of the site and all of that to make sure that
10 they were shielded from that, that there was a
11 buffer, that there was anything that could be
12 put in place to shield them from that,
13 regardless of what they're doing in their
14 operation.
15 There may not be concerns that need to be
16 addressed on their end with what they're doing,
17 but when you have the opportunity to do
18 something to help folks and to provide buffers
19 and do all that, that's what I wanted to see
20 done.
21 Because we would have an opportunity to
22 address this again when it comes back from DCA,
23 I will say now I will not support that unless
24 there are adequate buffers to protect the
25 neighboring properties and to keep their best
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1 interest in mind also.
2 And it's very hard to sit here and say that
3 I will support it, which I intend to tonight to
4 help it go over, if that's the will of the
5 council next week, in opposition to the district
6 councilperson's sentiment on this. That is very
7 difficult.
8 But I certainly -- I respect that. I do
9 know how it feels when it's an issue like this.
10 But tonight I will support it. But if it does
11 come back and it's not changed to where we're
12 protecting these folks, it won't have my support
13 when it comes back.
14 And that's all I have to say,
15 Mr. Chairman.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 Councilmember Shad.
19 MR. SHAD: I echo the comments of
20 Councilmember Webb and Councilmember Yarborough
21 that some work needs to be done on the buffer
22 that backs up to a commercial use. But as
23 Councilmember Webb said, it's a different
24 commercial use than a retail and it needs some
25 protection.
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1 And I had an opportunity to tour the park
2 and spoken with many times with the applicant
3 and with the owners of the RV park, and I do
4 think it probably needs more discussion there on
5 the buffer. So it sounds like that's being
6 echoed, and we'll work that out should this get
7 transmitted and get approved. And we'll --
8 whoever is on LUZ next cycle will deal with
9 that, so -- probably not going to be me.
10 So I can support it tonight with --
11 everyone has made it very clear that the
12 buffering and the protection to that park --
13 although it's commercial, it's a different type
14 of commercial. It probably needs to be
15 protected. And I think we've got that on the
16 record plenty tonight, so we'll get that done.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
19 Shad.
20 Councilmember Lee.
21 Are we in proper posture yet?
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: Yes.
23 MS. LEE: I have a question for
24 Mr. Yarborough.
25 Mr. Yarborough, I listened to your
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1 comments. And you've had several issues in your
2 district, other than Craig Airport, where you've
3 had to deal with -- and I think you were
4 vehement on the CPAC dealing with the -- I
5 forgot what you call it -- the town center where
6 you wanted that dealt with.
7 I would like to ask you a question, and I
8 guess I would -- I guess Mr. Webb, who had a
9 comment. Does -- do you think that CPACs --
10 that these developers should go out and have
11 community meetings with everybody and not just
12 people that they host a barbecue for?
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Just speaking to that
14 specific question?
15 MS. LEE: Yes. I mean, I mentioned that
16 the CPACs had not been talked to, the developers
17 completely circumvented me, did not invite me to
18 a community meeting. But the CPACs more
19 particularly. I talked with the president of
20 the CPAC.
21 Do you think that should be a --
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: Did you say that the CPAC
23 wasn't notified about this?
24 MS. LEE: Yes.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Well, I can only speak to
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1 what the Greater Arlington/Beaches CPAC does.
2 They have --
3 MS. LEE: No. I'm just asking you about --
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Well, this is it. This is
5 the answer to the question.
6 The Greater Arlington/Beaches CPAC reviews
7 everything that comes through that has a
8 potential effect in their communities that they
9 are made up of, those neighborhood leaders and
10 all those neighborhoods over in that area, and
11 they go through and dissect each one. They even
12 have a Land Use and Zoning Subcommittee.
13 They're aware of every bill that comes through
14 that affects the Greater Arlington/Beaches area.
15 So I don't know how it works in other
16 CPACs, but they do --
17 MS. LEE: That's not my question.
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: -- they do look over it.
19 MS. LEE: Through the Chair, my question is
20 because I stated that these CPACs attempted and
21 that the developers decided that they did not
22 have to talk to them, they didn't even make an
23 attempt. That's not -- that doesn't bother
24 you?
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: I won't deny that the
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1 barbecue does sound peculiar.
2 MS. LEE: I said the CPACs. Does it bother
3 you that this CPAC, the North CPAC that has a
4 responsibility at least of having an opportunity
5 to ask questions and vet whatever, that they
6 were not included? The developers never even
7 attempted to get with them.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: When did the CPAC become
9 aware of it?
10 MS. LEE: They invited them, just like they
11 did Thomas Creek. Thomas Creek development
12 showed up.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. But, I mean, you
14 said they weren't notified. When did they
15 become aware of this project?
16 MS. LEE: I don't know.
17 But the point is that the developers did
18 not go to their meeting or didn't even make any
19 attempts to meet with them. And that's just a
20 simple question. Does it concern you?
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: That does raise some
22 concerns, yes, ma'am.
23 MS. LEE: I was just wondering.
24 Mr. Webb?
25 MR. WEBB: Through the Chair to
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1 Councilmember Lee, I just -- when you guys were
2 going back and forth discussing this matter, I
3 asked Planning what their position was with
4 respect to notification of the CPAC. I'd asked
5 Planning to respond to that.
6 MS. LEE: No, not Planning. Excuse me.
7 Let me repeat it, Jack.
8 MR. WEBB: Are you talking about
9 specifically the developers?
10 MS. LEE: Right. The developers would not
11 go to the CPAC meeting where -- the Thomas Creek
12 development, they invited them. It's their
13 community. They make recommendations. You know
14 what CPACs do in your neighborhood.
15 MR. WEBB: Sure.
16 MS. LEE: So that we would have impact
17 whether we're for them or against.
18 And the only reason I ask you, because you
19 and Yarborough have made some comment.
20 MR. WEBB: Sure.
21 I think any proposed development or any
22 rezoning or transmittal should -- I mean,
23 developers should go above and beyond. That
24 being the case -- that being the case,
25 there's -- as Councilmember Yarborough noted,
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1 there's ample opportunity to do that in the
2 transmittal process. After the transmittal
3 process -- both when it comes back before the
4 council on the land use and on the PUD.
5 MS. LEE: Through the Chair to legal --
6 MR. WEBB: And perhaps we can get a
7 commitment from the developer in that regard.
8 MS. LEE: Well, through the Chair to legal,
9 can conditions be attached to this transmittal?
10 MS. ELLER: The only conditions that you
11 can attach to a transmittal are just
12 highlighting things that should be considered in
13 adoption. Specific conditions with regard to
14 details of the site planning are conditions for
15 the rezoning.
16 MS. LEE: Okay. So one condition that I
17 might would suggest would certainly be that
18 community meetings be held, that district
19 councilpersons be notified, that the CPAC not be
20 circumvented, and that the district
21 councilperson be involved in each and every
22 discussion.
23 Can that be a condition attached?
24 MS. ELLER: That can be an amendment that
25 you offer to the bill for consideration by the
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1 committee. You can move that amendment.
2 MS. LEE: Well, I'm debating. You're not
3 supposed to debate and move an amendment, so I
4 would ask that somebody would have to move it
5 for me.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Mr. Chairman, if I could,
7 with what Ms. Eller just said, everything she
8 said, if we could roll that into language for an
9 amendment, I'll offer that as amendment to the
10 resolution.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion.
12 MR. WEBB: I'll second it for discussion
13 purposes. And, again, I'm seconding it. And I
14 guess the subject -- again, for the purposes of
15 discussion.
16 I wonder if it might be just as
17 effective -- we talked about the buffering,
18 getting that on the record -- if it might be
19 appropriate for Mr. Harden just to verbally
20 commit in the record that this is something that
21 he will comply with.
22 The same issue will resolve the buffer
23 issue and, moreover, will resolve this issue as
24 well with respect to appropriate notification
25 without the cumbersome nature, without amending
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1 the transmittal.
2 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Chairman, may I ask what
3 I'm being asked to do?
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I was going to ask what
5 you're being asked. So you can --
6 MR. HARDEN: Let me just say this --
7 MR. WEBB: Notification. I'll defer to
8 Ms. Lee on that. But notification to the CPAC
9 by the developer.
10 MR. HARDEN: The -- well, Ms. Lee's
11 description is not an accurate description of
12 what happens.
13 The Planning Department, in fact, sends
14 every application to every CPAC, including the
15 Northside CPAC. If they want us to come to the
16 meeting, they set it on the agenda. They call
17 us and they show up. I go to the Northside CPAC
18 meeting every month. Every single month they
19 meet, I go there. When they ask me about an
20 item, I ask about it.
21 I can't schedule community meetings.
22 That's someone else's job. When people ask me
23 to come into a community to answer questions, I
24 do that.
25 So I will go to the CPAC meeting. I will
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1 write them a letter and say, Do you want to meet
2 with me? I'm happy to do it. But it's a
3 misstatement to say that I circumvented the
4 CPAC, because they invite me to their meetings
5 and I show up when they invite me. I don't just
6 barge in to a meeting. They have an agenda of
7 items they want to discuss.
8 So, yes, I'll be happy to go to the CPAC
9 meeting. If you want me to tell them that I
10 propose a date to do it, I'll be happy to do
11 it. But that's a misstatement of what happened
12 in this situation.
13 MS. LEE: Since I asked the question, let
14 me --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Wait. We're on the
16 amendment first, and I'd like a clarification
17 from somebody on what the amendment is.
18 Ms. Eller, you can do that.
19 MS. LEE: Well, I thought we were
20 discussing it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, but I want to know
22 what the amendment is before we discuss it.
23 MS. ELLER: As I heard the amendment, it's
24 two parts. The first part was the conditions
25 that were offered by Councilmember Lee, whereby
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1 the applicant agrees to contact the CPAC and
2 present this project to the CPAC.
3 And the second part was, as Councilmember
4 Webb stated, which would be that the buffering
5 issue shall be addressed as part of the adoption
6 in the PUD.
7 MR. HARDEN: Sure.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that your understanding?
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Nods head.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a
11 second.
12 Councilmember Lee.
13 MS. LEE: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record reflect the
15 applicant has agreed to those two conditions.
16 MS. LEE: Let me just get on the record.
17 But Mr. Harden could, as other developers
18 do -- we all have districts. Mr. Harden could
19 have been assertive. Just like he worked
20 Hemlock Road and went to people and called them,
21 he could have done the same thing for the CPAC.
22 So don't, don't, don't, don't, don't try to
23 slick people. Don't do that.
24 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Chairman --
25 MS. LEE: You do this on --
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1 MR. HARDEN: -- I don't think that's a fair
2 comment.
3 MS. LEE: You do this on a regular basis.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Ms. Lee, let's keep on
5 the motion that's on the floor.
6 MS. LEE: The motion is -- I just wanted to
7 set the record straight because Mr. Harden is
8 not representing the truth.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: But that doesn't matter. On
10 this motion -- the motion is about the two
11 conditions that Ms. Eller read.
12 Councilmember Shad.
13 MR. SHAD: Call the question.
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to call
16 the question is nondebatable.
17 All in favor signal by saying aye.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: The question has been
22 called.
23 We're on the amendment.
24 All in favor of the amendment as read by
25 Ms. Eller and agreed to by Mr. Harden say aye.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
5 We're back on the bill as amended.
6 MR. SHAD: Move the bill as amended.
7 MR. WEBB: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
9 bill as amended.
10 Councilmember Shad.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Call the question.
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to call
14 the question.
15 All in favor of calling the question signal
16 by saying aye.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The question has been
21 called.
22 We are now on 2008-398 as once amended.
23 Open the ballot and record the vote.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes nay.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, one nay.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2008-398.
10 It is now 7:25. It's been over two hours
11 since -- 9:25. Excuse me. So our court
12 reporter can take a break. So we'll take a
13 recess for ten minutes and come back.
14 (Brief recess.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll go ahead and call back
16 the meeting.
17 Councilmembers, we're on item 43,
18 2008-399. We're going to open that public
19 hearing.
20 We have a speaker. The speaker's name is
21 Ms. Alberta Hipps. She's right here on the
22 front row.
23 (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 MS. HIPPS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
2 MS. HIPPS: Good evening.
3 Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret Street,
4 Suite 323, 32204.
5 Councilmembers, 2008-399 is a land use
6 amendment, and it's noted in the Planning
7 Department report as ordinance 2004-1344,
8 rezoning this parcel from IL to a PUD to allow
9 townhomes in 2004. At that time, multifamily
10 was allowed in LI land use when that PUD was --
11 zoning was approved.
12 Multifamily is no longer allowed in the
13 land use category of LI. There was no
14 development after that zoning in 2004. And when
15 the landowner began to prepare for development,
16 it was determined that -- through that text
17 amendment, that the use as it was zoned was no
18 longer allowed.
19 The owner has applied for this land use, LI
20 to CGC, which will allow for multifamily in a
21 mixed-use project.
22 The Planning Department has an approval,
23 and I ask for your approval of this application
24 to transmit it to Tallahassee.
25 It's consistent with the policies of -- and
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1 objectives of the 2010 comprehensive plan.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Hipps.
3 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close
4 that public hearing.
5 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -399.
8 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
9 record the vote.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
14 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved 2008-399.
21 MS. HIPPS: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll skip around to -- no,
23 just kidding.
24 The next item is item 44, 2008-400.
25 We'll open that public hearing. We have a
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1 Mr. T.R. Hainline.
2 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Mr. Hainline.
4 MR. HAINLINE: Good evening.
5 T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.
6 Because of the hour, I'm going to be
7 extremely brief.
8 I'm here representing the Thomas Creek
9 development, which was originally approved as a
10 mixed-use development in 2004. We are seeking
11 transmittal of a designation of Thomas Creek as
12 a regional activity center and as a multiuse
13 development.
14 We are keeping LDR residential uses; we are
15 keeping CGC retail uses; we are adding a
16 warehouse distribution and an office use.
17 We did get a Planning Department
18 recommendation of approval. We did appear
19 before the CPAC and obtained a CPAC resolution
20 of support.
21 I'm happy to answer any questions. But
22 otherwise, I'm not going to go into any more
23 detail.
24 However, in working with Ms. Lee, with
25 Councilwoman Lee, she has asked that we clarify
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1 that our LDR uses are going to go in the upper
2 west corner at Braddock Road, and our CGC uses
3 are going to go in the upper east corner on
4 Lem Turner.
5 And we have some condition language that
6 I've worked with Ms. Eller and Mr. Killingsworth
7 on. I'd be happy to pass copies out to
8 everybody. I have them here. But they have
9 this language. And I'm happy to do whatever
10 y'all want me to do. Pass it out or defer
11 to Shannon and to Bill.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: As long as it's on the
13 record, that's all we need.
14 MS. ELLER: I can read the amendment.
15 MR. HAIRLINE: So with that, I'm happy to
16 answer any questions.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
18 Mr. Hainline.
19 I don't see any questions. Actually,
20 Councilwoman Lee is there.
21 Do you want to ask a question before I
22 close the public hearing, or close it first,
23 Ms. Lee?
24 MS. LEE: I don't have a question. I
25 wanted to get a copy.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The public hearing is
2 closed.
3 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
6 amendment to -400.
7 Seeing no discussion on the amendment, all
8 in favor of the amendment signal by saying aye.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
13 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
14 MR. SHAD: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
16 2008-400 as amended.
17 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
18 record the vote.
19 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. I didn't see
21 your light on. I'm sorry.
22 MS. LEE: And I'm not going to take up much
23 time, but I did want to, I think, in all, to
24 make sure that I stay consistent.
25 Again, the one that he's talking about,
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1 again, is right here (indicating). And that's
2 the other blue where I was talking about, the
3 warehouse.
4 But the difference is -- with Thomas Creek
5 is that -- let me just say this: I really
6 appreciate the respect that you have given my
7 office. I know you, but in this instance, what
8 they're attempting to do, they did agree to keep
9 a large part residential. I think
10 Mr. Killingsworth sees that on the map.
11 And what I wanted to happen, even though
12 you wanted to change it all to MU, I asked them,
13 would they please -- I just felt better keeping
14 some LDR and keeping -- not changing that at
15 all, Mr. Killingsworth. So that part would stay
16 LDR.
17 And up here (indicating) in that little
18 corner would stay CGC.
19 MR. HAINLINE: The uses.
20 MS. LEE: The uses, right.
21 And the other is MU, which they have agreed
22 to work with me on.
23 We're going to have a community meeting and
24 we're going to be working in the neighborhoods
25 to try -- so that people will be aware, they can
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1 ask questions. And the developer is here
2 from -- Mr. Silver from South Florida, who I
3 rode the property with.
4 And you know -- and I know no one wants to
5 hear this, but I'm just going to say it for the
6 record.
7 You know, it's easy to be a follower, but
8 you-all did not have to work with me like you
9 did. Since I've been back, I've disagreed with
10 you on several issues of your own company. And
11 you've been consistent. And I would like to
12 personally say that I will support this because
13 of the character that you've displayed.
14 And I always tell people what goes around
15 comes around and that these seats don't have a
16 name on them. And when you're elected by the
17 people, you should represent the people and not
18 represent the developer, because I always
19 believe you make -- if I lose a friend and you
20 don't give me a contribution, I'll pick up
21 another one. So I just appreciate you
22 supporting me.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.
25 I don't see anyone -- oh, Councilmember,
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1 you want to vote -- or you want to speak? I'm
2 sorry.
3 (Inaudible discussion.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other speakers,
5 let's open the ballot and record the vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
10 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
16 approved 2008-400.
17 Committee members, we are now on page 14,
18 item 45, 2008-401. We'll open that public
19 hearing.
20 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
21 hearing.
22 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
23 MR. CLARK: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -401.
25 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
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1 record the vote.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
6 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
9 (Committee ballot closed.)
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
12 approved 2008-401.
13 2008-402. We will open that public
14 hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
16 hearing.
17 No, actually, we're going to close it and
18 move it. We had a -- we had a notice, we think,
19 from the applicant saying that they were okay.
20 If we find out that actually it was not
21 from the applicant, I'll rerefer it at Council
22 this coming Tuesday.
23 So we're fine. We're now trying to move it
24 out, keep it with the series.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move it.
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1 MR. WEBB: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -402.
3 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
4 record the vote.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
9 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
12 (Committee ballot closed.)
13 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
15 approved 2008-402.
16 We now have several text amendments.
17 2008-403. We'll open that public hearing.
18 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
19 hearing.
20 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
23 bill on -403.
24 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
25 record the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
5 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MR. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: You just approved 2008-403.
11 Item 48, 2008-404. Open the public
12 hearing.
13 Seeing no speakers, we're closing it.
14 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
15 MR. CLARK: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and a second on
17 -404.
18 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
19 record the vote.
20 (Committee ballot opened.)
21 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
24 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
2 (Committee ballot closed.)
3 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
5 approved 2008-404.
6 2008-405. Open the public hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, close the public
8 hearing.
9 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
10 MR. WEBB: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on -405.
12 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
13 record the vote.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
18 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
24 approved 2008-405.
25 Top of Page 15. 2008-406. Open that
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1 public hearing.
2 Seeing no speakers, closing that public
3 hearing.
4 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
5 MR. WEBB: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to move
7 -406.
8 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
9 record the vote.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
14 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved 2008-406.
21 The following items will be deferred:
22 2008-407, -408, -409, -410, -411, -412, -413,
23 -414, -415, -416, -417, -418, -419, -420, -435,
24 and -436.
25 We are on page 19, item 67, 2008-437.
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1 We will open that public hearing.
2 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
3 hearing.
4 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
7 on -437.
8 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
9 record the vote.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
14 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you just
20 approved 2008-437.
21 2008-438. Open that public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it.
23 2008-439. Open that public hearing.
24 Seeing no speakers, we will continue it.
25 We are on the top of page 20. We already
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1 took care of that item.
2 The following items will be second and
3 rereferred: 2008-491, -492, -493, -494, -495,
4 and -500.
5 And unless I've missed something, that
6 brings us to the end of our agenda.
7 This is the last Land Use and Zoning
8 Committee meeting for this council year. I want
9 to thank each and every one of my colleagues for
10 the help, support, and patience during this past
11 year.
12 I don't know what the committee assignments
13 will be, but I wish each one of you well in your
14 future endeavors on council committees.
15 And I want to also thank the Legislative
16 Services staff, the General Counsel's Office,
17 and the Planning Department. You are all great
18 resources. And especially our court reporter,
19 Diane, for all her help and support and strong
20 fingers throughout our meeting.
21 Having said that and before anybody can say
22 anything else, we're adjourned.
23 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
24 9:50 p.m.)
25 - - -
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
5
6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 22nd day of June, 2008.
11
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14 Diane M. Tropia
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Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203