1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE

 

       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING

 

       3                         COMMITTEE

 

       4

 

       5

 

       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, June 17, 2008,

 

       7   commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers,

 

       8   1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before Diane M.

 

       9   Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State of

 

      10   Florida at Large.

 

      11

 

      12   PRESENT:

 

      13        MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.

                CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.

      14        RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.

                E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.

      15        ART SHAD, Committee Member.

                JACK WEBB, Committee Member.

      16

 

      17   ALSO PRESENT:

 

      18

                DON REDMAN, City Council Member.

      19        JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

                SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

      20        FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

                JASON TEAL, Office of General Counsel.

      21        SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

                DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

      22        MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.

                MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

      23

                                 -  -  -

      24

 

      25

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           2

 

 

       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S

 

       2   June 17, 2008                           5:00 p.m.

 

       3                         -  -  -

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  I hereby call the Tuesday,

 

       5        June 17th meeting of the Land Use and Zoning

 

       6        Committee.

 

       7             Let the record reflect that the following

 

       8        members are here:  Councilmember Michael

 

       9        Corrigan, Chairman; Vice Chair Clay Yarborough;

 

      10        Councilmember Richard Clark; Councilmember Art

 

      11        Shad; Councilmember Jack Webb.  And let the

 

      12        record reflect that Councilwoman Mia Jones has

 

      13        an excusal.

 

      14             We have a very busy agenda tonight.  I

 

      15        appreciate everyone's patience.  I will do a

 

      16        couple of quick reminders.  One, there is no

 

      17        public display or support or opposition.  When

 

      18        someone comes up to speak, we will make sure

 

      19        that you have respect, and we ask that you have

 

      20        respect for them as well.

 

      21             And since we do have so many items on our

 

      22        agenda, as you see your agenda getting closer,

 

      23        if you please come down front to save us some

 

      24        time walking down here, we sure would appreciate

 

      25        it.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             Having said that, Councilmembers, we are

 

       2        ready to begin on page 2.  All the items on

 

       3        page 2 are deferred, 2005-1228, 2006-24, and

 

       4        2006-220.

 

       5             Page 3, top item, 2006-360 is deferred.

 

       6             2006-658.  We'll open that public hearing.

 

       7             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that

 

       8        public hearing with no further action.

 

       9             Item 6, 2007-144.  We will open that public

 

      10        hearing.

 

      11             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

      12        hearing.

 

      13             Item 7, 2007-145.  We'll open that public

 

      14        hearing.

 

      15             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

      16        hearing.

 

      17             (Mr. Redman enters the proceedings.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  We are on page 4 of your

 

      19        agenda.  All the items on page 4 are deferred:

 

      20        2007-384, 2007-581, 2007-803.

 

      21             Now that we've gotten to that point, I see

 

      22        we have a visiting councilmember here.

 

      23        Councilmember Redman has joined us this

 

      24        afternoon.

 

      25             Councilman Redman, I believe that you are

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        here on bill 2008-313?

 

       2             MR. REDMAN:  Yes.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  That is on page 9 of your

 

       4        agenda, Councilmembers.

 

       5             We will open that public hearing.  We have

 

       6        some speakers.  The following people -- we have

 

       7        some declaration for ex-parte.

 

       8             Councilmember Clark.

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      10             I had a meeting with Tom Ingram and

 

      11        Kyle Riva on the 10th, and we discussed the

 

      12        location, the DRI, and the apartments.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember

 

      14        Clark.

 

      15             Councilmember Yarborough.

 

      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      17             2008-313, I had ex-parte at my office

 

      18        yesterday with Tom Ingram, Coen Purvis, Alex

 

      19        Coley and Kyle Riva to discuss the site plan and

 

      20        impact of rezoning on surrounding properties.

 

      21             Also, on the same day in my office with

 

      22        Michael Herzberg to discuss the impact of the

 

      23        rezoning to the surrounding properties.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             Councilmember Webb.

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  Thank you.

 

       3             I'd like to declare ex-parte with regard to

 

       4        this bill as well with Mr. Michael Herzberg

 

       5        approximately two weeks ago to discuss the

 

       6        merits of this, as well I had -- approximately

 

       7        two weeks ago, I had a brief conversation with

 

       8        Paul Harden regarding the merits of this bill as

 

       9        well.

 

      10             Thank you.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      12             I'll also declare ex-parte communications

 

      13        on June 10th.  I had a meeting with Tom Ingram,

 

      14        Coen Purvis, Alex Coley, Kyle Riva and McCarley

 

      15        Davis in my office at 4:00 p.m. to discuss an

 

      16        overview of this particular ordinance.

 

      17             I also had ex-parte communication with

 

      18        Mike Herzberg on June 12th, approximately 1:15

 

      19        in the afternoon, in our world famous Green Room

 

      20        to discuss his opposition to this project.

 

      21             Seeing no other ex-parte communications,

 

      22        we're ready now for our speakers.

 

      23             Our first speaker is Alex Coley, followed

 

      24        by Kyle Riva, followed by Tom Ingram.

 

      25             (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  And if you want to change

 

       2        the order, that's fine.  Tom, you want to come

 

       3        first, that's fine.

 

       4             MR. INGRAM:  Thank you.  Good evening.

 

       5             Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue,

 

       6        Suite 400, and I'm here representing the

 

       7        applicants.

 

       8             This is a proposed 360-unit multifamily

 

       9        complex in the Southpoint project, also known as

 

      10        the Interstate Business Center DRI.  This

 

      11        project was conceived in the late '70s and early

 

      12        '80s as a suburban-style office park, kind of

 

      13        the height of planning for its time.

 

      14             As the years have worn on and we're now in

 

      15        the 21st century, the strong trend has been to

 

      16        integrate multifamily and office products

 

      17        together so that people can work and live in

 

      18        close proximity to one another.

 

      19             This is a market-rate project.  It's being

 

      20        done by Epoch Properties.  It's done -- who did

 

      21        Thornton Park over in the Gate Parkway

 

      22        extension.  This type of project has been found

 

      23        in other DRIs very similar to this.  In the

 

      24        Galleria, there is the Windsor Falls project

 

      25        that the City Council approved just a few years

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           7

 

 

       1        ago to add multifamily to an office and retail

 

       2        project.

 

       3             Also, at Flagler Center DRI just a few

 

       4        years ago, the City Council voted to amend that

 

       5        DRI to add multifamily to an office and

 

       6        industrial complex.

 

       7             Also, in the Deerwood town -- Deerwood

 

       8        North DRI, that project includes a variety of

 

       9        multifamily that's under construction today at

 

      10        Tapestry Park and a few other projects over

 

      11        there.

 

      12             But at the southeast and southwest

 

      13        quadrants, JTB and 95 now have a mix of office

 

      14        and multifamily.  This is just continuing that

 

      15        trend.

 

      16             There had been some opposition.  There is

 

      17        now one opponent that we are aware of.  The

 

      18        other comments have been withdrawn, and we now

 

      19        understand that they're in support.

 

      20             There was a memorandum that was circulated

 

      21        anonymously, and I'd like to share that with

 

      22        you.  It was sent to some of the various office

 

      23        develop- -- office tenants in the area.  I have

 

      24        copies here.

 

      25             But just to say that a lot of this is

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        inaccurate.  You may have seen it.  It talked

 

       2        about equating workforce with lower income

 

       3        housing.  That's simply not true.  This is --

 

       4        workforce housing is basically normal working

 

       5        people earning below average and above average

 

       6        income.  It's the very type of people that will

 

       7        live and work in an office product like this.

 

       8             It does comply with the comprehensive

 

       9        plan.  We have strong support from the Planning

 

      10        Department.  It is -- it is not -- it is exempt

 

      11        from any sort of industrial overlay zone

 

      12        pursuant to the terms of the City's industrial

 

      13        zoning overlay district.

 

      14             Furthermore, even if it were applicable,

 

      15        there are no special buffering requirements

 

      16        between multifamily and office because the City

 

      17        recognizes that those two uses are compatible.

 

      18             And with that, I'll be happy to answer any

 

      19        questions you may have, but we have passed out

 

      20        some handouts here, various aerials, some of

 

      21        which you have seen, but page 7 gives the best

 

      22        overview of what the site looks like.

 

      23             Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Ingram.

 

      25             I have several other speakers in support.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           9

 

 

       1             Mr. Ingram, let me ask you, is there an

 

       2        order to the speakers in support, or you do not

 

       3        know?

 

       4             MR. INGRAM:  Yes.  The next will be

 

       5        Kyle Riva with Epoch Properties, followed by

 

       6        Coen Purvis, who's a planner -- he is also with

 

       7        Hallmark Partners -- followed by Alex Coley of

 

       8        Hallmark Partners, the principal who owns an

 

       9        adjacent office building.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      11             MR. INGRAM:  Thank you.

 

      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.

 

      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hey, good afternoon.

 

      15             My name is Kyle Riva.  I'm the president of

 

      16        Epoch Properties.  We're based in Orlando,

 

      17        Florida.  We were formed in 1970.  Since then,

 

      18        have built some 31,000 market-rate apartment

 

      19        units across the country.  We've built some 15

 

      20        to 18 projects here in Jacksonville.  Our most

 

      21        recent was Thornton Park, which is on the Gate

 

      22        Parkway extension, about a mile and a half from

 

      23        this particular location.

 

      24             We're a fully integrated company.  We're a

 

      25        developer, general contractor, and management

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           10

 

 

       1        company.  We currently manage about 10,000

 

       2        units.

 

       3             What we intend to build on this project is

 

       4        a high-quality, market-rate project with

 

       5        substantial interior units and exterior

 

       6        amenities, basketball courts, theaters, swimming

 

       7        pools, et cetera, for our residents to use.

 

       8             We very much believe that building our kind

 

       9        of project in this type of environment next to

 

      10        offices and nearby retail is really the right

 

      11        thing to do.  It's -- they're very complementary

 

      12        uses and they tend to utilize the existing

 

      13        infrastructure much more efficiently.

 

      14             The traffic trips are going in opposite

 

      15        directions during peak periods, and there's

 

      16        less -- you drive through the Southpoint

 

      17        business park on the weekends and nights, you'll

 

      18        see that those roads aren't being utilized.

 

      19        With the community there, that's when -- an

 

      20        apartment community, that's when those roads

 

      21        would be utilized.

 

      22             But more importantly, I believe the City

 

      23        staff has been looking at this for a long time,

 

      24        and I believe they're in support of our

 

      25        project.  And then also we have support letters

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           11

 

 

       1        from the National Association of Industrial and

 

       2        Office Parks, and also from the National

 

       3        Multihousing Conference, both saying that this

 

       4        is exactly the type of smart growth that they

 

       5        want to see.

 

       6             As far as we can tell, most of the

 

       7        neighbors are in favor of our development and in

 

       8        support of us.  Once we got past the

 

       9        disinformation that they've had, they've now

 

      10        written retraction letters and are in support.

 

      11             We seem to only have one dissenter who has

 

      12        been pretty vocal.  And when we tried to meet

 

      13        with him, he said, "Look.  It's nothing

 

      14        personal.  We'd be against anything you're

 

      15        developing here.  This is just business."

 

      16             Well, to me, this business is personal, and

 

      17        I believe your guys' business of running this

 

      18        city is personal as well.  And I think the

 

      19        citizens expect it to be.  And what we're all

 

      20        after here is smart growth in the city of

 

      21        Jacksonville.  I believe, and we believe, that

 

      22        this development is smart growth for the city.

 

      23             Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      25             I have Alex Coley, and J.J. Conners, and

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        Coen Purvis.

 

       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon.

 

       5             Coen Purvis, 6675 Corporate Center Parkway,

 

       6        Suite 100.

 

       7             I'm here on behalf of Hallmark Partners, an

 

       8        employee of Hallmark Partners.  I am a

 

       9        developer, but I'm also a planner, a planner by

 

      10        background as well as education.  I've worked

 

      11        not only in the private sector as a -- as a

 

      12        developer and a planner, but as well as in the

 

      13        public sector.  So I've been on both sides of

 

      14        this issue.

 

      15             You heard Tom say -- Tom Ingram say that

 

      16        Southpoint was envisioned in the late '70s.

 

      17        That is true.  Clearly, I don't have to tell you

 

      18        that a lot of things have changed in Southpoint

 

      19        over that past 30 years.  Residential was not

 

      20        envisioned when they put the plan to paper back

 

      21        in the '70s, but, you know, an area must evolve

 

      22        or it will die.

 

      23             And this is happening all over -- all over

 

      24        the country, and it's happening here in

 

      25        Jacksonville as well.  We've already seen

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           13

 

 

       1        Pulte -- national home builders like Pulte and

 

       2        D.R. Horton come into areas of commercial and

 

       3        business parks where the market has changed and

 

       4        have come in with residential projects.

 

       5             It just makes sense to use the existing

 

       6        infrastructure.  We've already seen -- you know,

 

       7        we've got the water there, we've got the

 

       8        drainage, we've got the sewer, we've got the

 

       9        road system in.  Our own traffic analysis shows

 

      10        that actually the net impact from residential is

 

      11        less than what it would be if we developed out

 

      12        with our approved office development rights.  So

 

      13        it just makes good planning sense.

 

      14             Another thing is not only the hard

 

      15        infrastructure is in place, but the retail

 

      16        services to support that residential are all in

 

      17        place.

 

      18             I'd like to enter into the record an aerial

 

      19        that we have prepared that shows the retail

 

      20        projects that are within basically a two-mile

 

      21        radius of our site.

 

      22             (Ms. Lee enters the proceedings.)

 

      23             MR. PURVIS:  There's over 300- -- almost

 

      24        340,000 square feet of retail.  There's 85

 

      25        different retail establishments.  Many of those

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           14

 

 

       1        are within walking and/or bike distance.  We've

 

       2        got one grocer, one drug, 39 restaurants, eight

 

       3        convenience stores, 14 retailers, eight salons,

 

       4        three cleaners, three financial institutions,

 

       5        nail shops, coffee shops, tanning salon.  All

 

       6        the services that are needed to support a

 

       7        residential development.

 

       8             So I would ask for your support of

 

       9        2008-313.

 

      10             Thank you.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      12             I have Alex Coley, J.J. Conners, and

 

      13        Paul Harden, and Mike Herzberg.

 

      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.

 

      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon.

 

      17        Thank you.

 

      18             I'm Alex Coley.  I'm a partner in Hallmark

 

      19        Partners, 6675 Corporate Center Parkway.

 

      20             Our company is headquartered directly

 

      21        adjacent to this property.  We've been officed

 

      22        in Southpoint for many years.  As I said, our

 

      23        headquarters is there, adjacent to the subject

 

      24        property.

 

      25             We're also managers of the Southpoint

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           15

 

 

       1        Property Owners Association, the Southeast

 

       2        Quadrant Property Owners Association, and the

 

       3        Galleria Property Owners Association,

 

       4        encompassing three of the four corners of that

 

       5        intersection.  And in all three of these

 

       6        quadrants, we have existing multifamily.

 

       7             Our project -- we have met with the

 

       8        neighbors in the neighborhood on our project

 

       9        and, after some discussion, every single one of

 

      10        them, bar one, is supporting the project.

 

      11             As was mentioned earlier, there was a

 

      12        memorandum circulating in the neighborhood that

 

      13        required some clarification.  And after that

 

      14        clarification, again, we report 100 percent in

 

      15        support for the project, bar one.

 

      16             And I want to enter into the record here

 

      17        recommendation letters from those people, along

 

      18        with the recommendation from the president of

 

      19        our trade organization, the National Association

 

      20        of Industrial and Office Properties.  Mr. Tom

 

      21        Bisacquino wrote a letter from NAIOP stating

 

      22        that this project is exactly the kind of smart

 

      23        growth, green initiative that NAIOP supports.

 

      24             It reduces our carbon footprint.  It is

 

      25        good, proper planning.  And, as was mentioned

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           16

 

 

       1        earlier, this bill is supported by the Planning

 

       2        Department, and it's been recommended by the

 

       3        Planning Commission.

 

       4             And I see Mr. Redman up here, our

 

       5        councilman.  We appreciate his support as well.

 

       6        I think he'll speak to that later.

 

       7             Again, we just ask for your support for

 

       8        2008-313.

 

       9             Thank you.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      11             J.J. Conners, Paul Harden, and Mike

 

      12        Herzberg.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon.

 

      16             I'm J.J. Conners, 45 West Bay Street,

 

      17        Suite 203.

 

      18             I am the president of Chestnut Hill

 

      19        Investments, which is a local real estate

 

      20        development company that I started in July of

 

      21        2006, and I'm here speak on -- in support of

 

      22        this project.

 

      23             Prior to starting my company, I was the

 

      24        vice president and regional market officer for

 

      25        Flagler Development.  And in that position, I

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           17

 

 

       1        managed the development, leasing, entitlement,

 

       2        land management, property management of Flagler

 

       3        Developments Holdings in the North Florida

 

       4        area.

 

       5             And in two of those projects, both of which

 

       6        Tom Ingram referred to, there was multifamily

 

       7        adjacent to office that I feel worked very

 

       8        well.

 

       9             In Flagler Center, adjacent to the

 

      10        Citi Cards' 600,000-square-foot office campus,

 

      11        there was a -- there is a Pulte multifamily

 

      12        development.  Both Pulte and Citi Cards were

 

      13        excited that their neighbor was there.  Both saw

 

      14        it as a benefit.  Citi Cards actually had a

 

      15        number of employees inquiring about being able

 

      16        to live there to shorten their commute, which

 

      17        serves as a captured trip and didn't put any

 

      18        additional cars on the peak hour roadways.

 

      19             The other project was Deerwood North.

 

      20        Flagler has four office buildings in the

 

      21        Deerwood North DRI, Class A office buildings,

 

      22        among the top in the market.

 

      23             And adjacent to them, between a Flagler

 

      24        office building and another office building, is

 

      25        a multifamily development that serves as an

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           18

 

 

       1        additional asset to -- to that marketplace.  And

 

       2        the entire Gate Parkway corridor serves as a

 

       3        mixed-use, very functional development.

 

       4             So I think that a change such as this,

 

       5        putting apartments next to offices, cannot only

 

       6        work very well, but serves as a -- be a good

 

       7        planning exercise.

 

       8             Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      10             The next card I have is for Paul Harden,

 

      11        but I see it says item 23.  He may be here on

 

      12        item 23.

 

      13             Mr. Harden, are you here for this item or

 

      14        not?

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  No.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      17             Our next speaker is Mr. Herzberg,

 

      18        Mike Herzberg.

 

      19             And, Mr. Harden, I'm going to put your card

 

      20        back in for item 23.

 

      21             (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.

 

      23             MR. HERZBERG:  Good afternoon, sir.

 

      24             Mr. Chairman, my name is Mike Herzberg.  My

 

      25        address is One Sleiman Parkway, Jacksonville,

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           19

 

 

       1        Florida 32216.

 

       2             And I thank you for the opportunity to

 

       3        speak before you regarding this subject.

 

       4             I've asked that a package be handed out to

 

       5        you tonight that I think will demonstrate how

 

       6        this project is actually inconsistent with the

 

       7        comprehensive plan.

 

       8             As you all know, I have a little bit of

 

       9        experience with the comprehensive plan, but a

 

      10        lot has changed since I was left -- since I have

 

      11        left, specifically in relation to industrial

 

      12        preservation.  The City determined, through an

 

      13        industrial preservation study at a cost of

 

      14        $90,000 to the taxpayers of this county, that we

 

      15        need to protect industrial business parks.

 

      16             The loss of these business parks by

 

      17        residential intrusion hampers our economic

 

      18        ability to continue development in these parks.

 

      19             I would submit to you tonight that this is

 

      20        the embodiment of what we paid $90,000 for a

 

      21        study to tell us.  Don't drop residential into

 

      22        the middle of industrially-designated properties

 

      23        due to the fact that we may reduce our

 

      24        availability of those industrial properties and

 

      25        have the effect of reducing the uses that are

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           20

 

 

       1        out there or the future uses of those

 

       2        properties.

 

       3             The City went so far as to adopt a

 

       4        comprehensive plan amendment to the BP category

 

       5        specifically stating that new units in this

 

       6        category -- and previously units weren't allowed

 

       7        in this category, but now units would be allowed

 

       8        in this land use category, subject to the fact

 

       9        that they be workforce housing.

 

      10             Workforce housing was further defined by

 

      11        the staff and sent to the council for adoption

 

      12        as being 140 percent of the AMI.  That would be

 

      13        approximately $65,000 a year.

 

      14             I think it's difficult to assume -- and I

 

      15        have all the respect in the world for the

 

      16        developers and Epoch Properties.  I've seen

 

      17        their product, I know they build good products,

 

      18        but the problem here is the comprehensive plan

 

      19        says he can't build his product.

 

      20             Your comprehensive plan, my comprehensive

 

      21        plan -- and I understand the applicant has made

 

      22        the statement, and I agree with the statement,

 

      23        that the zoning overlay does not apply.  I have

 

      24        no problem with that, but the comprehensive plan

 

      25        policies and map L-23 still does apply.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           21

 

 

       1        Further, map T-2 of the comprehensive plan and

 

       2        the traffic circulation element applies.

 

       3             Mixed use is a principle of smart growth.

 

       4        I understand mixed use.  I'm a planner by trade

 

       5        as well.  But mixed use has become a buzz word

 

       6        in the developer's lexicon.  We say that if we

 

       7        drop one use next to another, we're mixing the

 

       8        uses.  Well, if we drop a pig farm into the

 

       9        middle of a residential subdivision, are we

 

      10        mixing the uses?  Well, sure.  The pig farmer

 

      11        can live right next door to where the pig farm

 

      12        is, but it defies all logic.  Those two uses

 

      13        don't belong together.  They're incompatible.

 

      14             There ought to be a law, and there is a

 

      15        law.  There's several laws.  There's goal 3 of

 

      16        your comprehensive plan, objective 3.2, policy

 

      17        3.2.12, policy -- and the new policies -- let me

 

      18        stop.  The new policies that have been adopted

 

      19        since I left the City, policy 3.2.17, policy

 

      20        3.2.19, policy 3.2.29.  I can go on.  There's a

 

      21        number of those, and they're in your packet.

 

      22             I guess, gentlemen, what I'm really trying

 

      23        to say is mixed use is a good thing, and these

 

      24        gentlemen have developed mixed-use projects on

 

      25        Southside Boulevard that are excellent examples

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           22

 

 

       1        of mixed use.

 

       2             Retail is a component of them.  There is

 

       3        little or no retail in this business park, short

 

       4        of a sandwich shop inside some of the offices,

 

       5        and this PUD does not propose uses other than a

 

       6        residential development or more industrial uses.

 

       7             I see that my time has expired.  And in

 

       8        respect of that, I'll step down, but I'll be

 

       9        happy to answer any questions.

 

      10             I would like to point out one other thing

 

      11        in relation to surrounding properties.  There's

 

      12        been, I think, a misstatement of fact, stating

 

      13        that residential fits in the area.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Herzberg, your time has

 

      15        expired.

 

      16             MR. HERZBERG:  Yes, sir.  Thank you.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no further speakers

 

      18        on 2008-313, that public hearing is closed.

 

      19             Councilmember Redman.

 

      20             MR. REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      21             I know this is a pretty contentious issue

 

      22        between the two parties, and I've listened quite

 

      23        lengthy to both parties.  And, you know,

 

      24        Mr. Ingram first came to me with this, you know,

 

      25        and it appeared to be a great development in

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           23

 

 

       1        what I think is a needed area.  And I --

 

       2             Personally, I think the mixed use will be a

 

       3        great thing for this area, so I'm going to have

 

       4        to support the development.

 

       5             It looks like a -- you know, everything

 

       6        I've seen, it looks like a great development.

 

       7        And, you know, meetings that I have been and --

 

       8        district planning meetings, does lead to this

 

       9        type of development.  This is something -- I've

 

      10        been at meetings -- and has been pushed as the

 

      11        up and coming way to develop areas.  So I

 

      12        think -- I think it's going to be a good thing.

 

      13             Thank you.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      15             Let's go to the Planning Department.  I

 

      16        think we have an amendment on this particular

 

      17        bill.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the

 

      21        amendment.

 

      22             We'll go to the Planning Department for an

 

      23        explanation of the amendment.

 

      24             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman, the amendment

 

      25        consists of several conditions, and I'll read

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           24

 

 

       1        them into the record, please.

 

       2             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

       3        be subject to the original legal description

 

       4        dated February 26, 2008."

 

       5             Condition number 2, "The development shall

 

       6        be subject to the revised written description

 

       7        dated June 9th, 2008."

 

       8             Condition number 3, "The development shall

 

       9        be subject to the original site plan dated

 

      10        May 25, 2008."

 

      11             Condition number 4, "The required

 

      12        transportation improvements shall be made in

 

      13        accordance with the Development Services

 

      14        Division memorandum dated April 17th, 2008, or

 

      15        as otherwise approved by the Planning and

 

      16        Development Department."

 

      17             Fifth and finally, "Multifamily structures

 

      18        which face or back up to each other shall

 

      19        provide at least 40 feet of separation between

 

      20        structures.  Multifamily structures must have a

 

      21        minimum separation of at least 20 feet between

 

      22        end walls and 20 feet between an end wall and

 

      23        face or rear of another multifamily structure."

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           25

 

 

       1             Seeing -- Councilmember Redman, do you have

 

       2        any discussion on the amendment or not?

 

       3             Mr. Redman, before you -- if Mr. Ingram

 

       4        could come up and indicate his understanding of

 

       5        those -- of the amendment.

 

       6             (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)

 

       7             MR. INGRAM:  Yes, sir.  We are familiar

 

       8        with the amendment and support it, or find it

 

       9        acceptable.

 

      10             Thank you.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilmember Redman,

 

      12        then Councilmember Lee.

 

      13             MR. REDMAN:  I have no problem with the

 

      14        amendment.  I support it.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      16             Councilmember Lee.

 

      17             MS. LEE:  I have a question of legal,

 

      18        please.  Through the Chair to Ms. Eller.

 

      19             MS. ELLER:  Yes, ma'am.

 

      20             MS. LEE:  Do I need to declare ex-parte on

 

      21        this?  Paul Harden talked to me about this and

 

      22        asked for support of this.  Do I need to go on

 

      23        record with that?

 

      24             MS. ELLER:  You can wait until -- oh, no.

 

      25        This is 2008-313.  Yes.  This is a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           26

 

 

       1        quasi-judicial matter, so if you could just

 

       2        disclose who you met with and what you

 

       3        discussed.

 

       4             MS. LEE:  Yes.

 

       5             MS. ELLER:  That, will fulfill the ex-parte

 

       6        disclosure.

 

       7             MS. LEE:  Right.  I would like to disclose

 

       8        that Paul Harden spoke to me about this.  And I

 

       9        was under the impression that he was

 

      10        representing that.  That's what he represented

 

      11        to me.

 

      12             Thank you.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      14             Seeing no questions for Councilmember Lee,

 

      15        thank you.

 

      16             We are on the amendment.

 

      17             Seeing no other discussion on the

 

      18        amendment, all in favor signal by saying aye.

 

      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.

 

      23             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           27

 

 

       1        2008-313 as amended.

 

       2             Councilmember Webb.

 

       3             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       4             I have a couple of questions for either

 

       5        legal or for Planning.

 

       6             First off, this does not -- to the -- the

 

       7        point that was made before is that this is a

 

       8        multiuse project.  This doesn't strike me -- I'm

 

       9        looking at the Planning Department report.  This

 

      10        is not -- this is not a multiuse project in the

 

      11        sense that it's either-or.  It's either pure

 

      12        multifamily or it's -- it's a --

 

      13             It's an application for rezoning, PUD.  So

 

      14        it changes the industrial business park zoning

 

      15        to a PUD to contract zoning.  So it's to

 

      16        facilitate an either-or type situation.  It's

 

      17        either multifamily, and if they close a

 

      18        multifamily, we'll rock and roll.  Or if not,

 

      19        then they default -- the developer defaults to

 

      20        the IBP -- excuse me -- the industrial business

 

      21        park zoning designation; is that correct?

 

      22             And that's to Shannon, I guess, or to Sean.

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair to Councilman

 

      24        Webb, yes, that's correct.

 

      25             The property is currently zoned IBP, so

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           28

 

 

       1        that's not anything new.  The introduction of

 

       2        the residential use creates the mixed use in the

 

       3        development.

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  I have a concern with this

 

       5        particular -- with the use of PUD zoning, of

 

       6        contract zoning in this fashion.

 

       7             Essentially, what this does, it strips this

 

       8        body of the ability to consider the merits of a

 

       9        true rezoning.  I mean, contract zoning should

 

      10        be for a specific use, and that is, they want to

 

      11        go from whatever -- whether or not they want to

 

      12        go from industrial business park to multifamily,

 

      13        whatever.  But, again, they want to do that in

 

      14        the context of contract zoning.  And the

 

      15        contract that they negotiate with us as a body

 

      16        effectively says, "Okay.  If you can't do this,

 

      17        then you could default to the original use."

 

      18        Isn't that a fair statement?

 

      19             MR. KELLY:  That is correct.  That is what

 

      20        is being requested.

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  Fair enough.

 

      22             MR. KELLY:  The IBP is, you know,

 

      23        compatible with all the other IBP around.

 

      24             MR. WEBB:  And the second question for

 

      25        Planning, I guess, you're going -- if -- again,

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           29

 

 

       1        this is not a multiuse project in that it's

 

       2        going to be multifamily lined up next door to

 

       3        IBP uses, correct?

 

       4             MR. KELLY:  The property is surrounded by a

 

       5        private road, so it applies to the overall

 

       6        parcel.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  I see.

 

       8             MR. KELLY:  But the surrounding uses would

 

       9        be IBP, adjacent properties.

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  I mean, this strikes me as a

 

      11        good project, I guess, but --

 

      12             Well, one further question to zoning --

 

      13        excuse me -- to Planning.  The -- when you're

 

      14        talking about mixed use, you're talking

 

      15        effectively about multifamily residential with a

 

      16        neighborhood commercial component, retail-type

 

      17        component; isn't that accurate?  Or is it

 

      18        broader than that?

 

      19             MR. KELLY:  It's much broader than that,

 

      20        yes.

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  Fair enough.

 

      22             I will say this, I think this is a good

 

      23        project, but I do not support the use of

 

      24        contract zoning in this fashion, so I'm going to

 

      25        oppose this.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           30

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember

 

       2        Webb.

 

       3             Seeing no other speakers -- Councilmember

 

       4        Yarborough.

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       6             Like some of the concerns that Councilman

 

       7        Webb had, I'm sitting here -- and I've met with

 

       8        both sides, and in regards to some of the --

 

       9        what's on the front page of what Mr. Herzberg

 

      10        handed us with the concerns, I wanted to ask the

 

      11        Planning staff, one of the things here, under

 

      12        point number 2, speaks to the loss of industrial

 

      13        lands combined with residential intrusion.

 

      14             The next paragraph talks about the council

 

      15        at one point has declared it to be the policy to

 

      16        protect and preserve the industrial areas.

 

      17             Southpoint is an older -- is an older part

 

      18        of town, but the thing that concerns me is how

 

      19        isolated this would be and would be in an area

 

      20        where we primarily have the industrial and

 

      21        commercial areas, and there is not residential

 

      22        anywhere near this.

 

      23             And, to me, I don't know if that would be

 

      24        truly consistent with our plan because it's

 

      25        not -- it just doesn't seem that it would be

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           31

 

 

       1        contiguous.

 

       2             And I just wanted to ask our staff, how --

 

       3        really, how do we arrive at the conclusion that

 

       4        this -- I understand with mixed use, it's

 

       5        different, but how do we arrive at the

 

       6        conclusion that this would be something that

 

       7        would be okay with this area?

 

       8             Sean, if you can speak to that.

 

       9             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.

 

      10             Through the Chair to Councilmember

 

      11        Yarborough, the industrial study -- again, this

 

      12        is a development of regional impact, and the

 

      13        industrial adoption of the overlay exempted out

 

      14        the areas covered under the DRI, and the DRI is

 

      15        still subject to a notice of proposed change to

 

      16        introduce the residential component.

 

      17             Compatibilitywise, we feel it's

 

      18        compatible.  This is a perfect mix of uses, and

 

      19        it's why the buffering standards within the

 

      20        industrial study didn't require separate buffers

 

      21        or additional buffering standards.  In fact,

 

      22        they found that they were compatible for all the

 

      23        reasons that -- mixed use generates internal

 

      24        capture.  You've got employees living and

 

      25        working without having to get onto the collector

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           32

 

 

       1        roads.

 

       2             You do have residential, in fact, in the BP

 

       3        land use category within about a half a mile of

 

       4        here, about -- north onto Bowden Road, just

 

       5        south of Bowden, there were townhomes introduced

 

       6        in the BP.  This has been done on a number of

 

       7        occasions.  The BP land use through a -- in the

 

       8        context of a PUD has been used multiple times to

 

       9        allow for multifamily development.

 

      10             We do find that it is compatible with those

 

      11        light office and warehouse uses where everything

 

      12        is done within an enclosed building.  You don't

 

      13        have the heavier industrial uses.

 

      14             So from a compatibility standpoint, all the

 

      15        uses within the business park would be

 

      16        compatible with the multifamily use.

 

      17             And in this instance in particular, this

 

      18        property is buffered by a perimeter roadway, and

 

      19        you have I-95 on one side, and you've got

 

      20        adjacent properties that are under ownership by

 

      21        the applicant directly to the north.  So we feel

 

      22        that this is consistent with the surrounding

 

      23        area in terms of introducing this use at this

 

      24        location.

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I appreciate that.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           33

 

 

       1             I guess I was just -- I'm trying to think

 

       2        of it in terms of have we -- have we considered

 

       3        it all -- I guess what the -- what we'd like to

 

       4        see the future of the Southpoint area be, or are

 

       5        we just kind of moving forward kind of as we

 

       6        go?  I mean, has that been considered at all

 

       7        or --

 

       8             MR. KELLY:  It absolutely has.

 

       9             And one of the things we looked at was the

 

      10        JTA's plan for the bus rapid transit system, and

 

      11        this is directly off one of those planned future

 

      12        stations at J. Turner Butler and 95.

 

      13             We feel that that was another factor that

 

      14        we looked at in making this more of an

 

      15        appropriate site because it is introducing the

 

      16        mass transit to this area, which the residential

 

      17        will be able to support that mass transit.  And,

 

      18        again, density is always a good thing and

 

      19        appropriate in this instance.

 

      20             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      21             I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.

 

      22             I don't want to oppose the district

 

      23        councilman.  I believe he would certainly know

 

      24        what's best for his district.  I mean, it has

 

      25        been difficult just to look at that, and knowing

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           34

 

 

       1        the character of Southpoint over there, it seems

 

       2        kind of odd that we would allow this type of

 

       3        development to go in with it being so -- with it

 

       4        being residential, but I'll support my colleague

 

       5        on his advice that it's best for his district.

 

       6             Thank you.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember

 

       8        Yarborough.

 

       9             Seeing no further speakers, we'll open the

 

      10        ballot and record the vote.

 

      11             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      12             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MS. LEE:   (Votes nay.)

 

      16             MR. SHAD:  (Votes nay.)

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  (Votes nay.)

 

      18             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      19             MS. LAHMEUR:  Three yeas, three nays.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  By your action,

 

      21        it does not move from the committee.  It will

 

      22        stay in committee on our agenda.

 

      23             We're going to reopen that public hearing

 

      24        and take no further action today.

 

      25             Councilmember Redman, thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           35

 

 

       1             Do you have any other bills that you're

 

       2        here for or is that it?

 

       3             MR. REDMAN:  No.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you

 

       5        very much.

 

       6             We are back on page 5, item 11, 2007-1085.

 

       7             We'll open that public hearing.

 

       8             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

       9        public hearing with no further action.

 

      10             Item 12, 2007-1086.  Open that public

 

      11        hearing.

 

      12             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      13        public hearing with no further action.

 

      14             Item 13, 2007-1125.  We'll open that public

 

      15        hearing.

 

      16             Your agenda may be marked closed, but that

 

      17        public hearing is going to be continued with no

 

      18        further action.

 

      19             Item 14, 2007-1350.  Open that public

 

      20        hearing.

 

      21             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      22        public hearing with no further action.

 

      23             Top of page 6.  2008-23 is deferred.

 

      24             Item 16, 2008-40.  Open that public

 

      25        hearing.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           36

 

 

       1             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that

 

       2        public hearing.

 

       3             Item 17, 2008-145.  Open that public

 

       4        hearing.

 

       5             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

       6        hearing.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

      10        amendment.

 

      11             If I could have the Planning Department

 

      12        please explain the amendment.

 

      13             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman, we're on item --

 

      14        which?  2008- -- I apologize.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  2008-145.

 

      16             MR. CROFTS:  Yes.  Excuse me.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did you find it on page 6?

 

      18             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir.

 

      19             The amendment is as follows:

 

      20             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

      21        be subject to the revised legal description

 

      22        dated February 27, 2008."

 

      23             Number 2, "The development shall be subject

 

      24        to the revised written description dated May 1,

 

      25        2008."

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           37

 

 

       1             Number 3, "The development shall be subject

 

       2        to the revised site plan dated May 1st, 2008."

 

       3             Number 4, "The required transportation

 

       4        improvements shall be made in accordance with

 

       5        the Development Services Division memorandum

 

       6        dated February 25, 2008, or as otherwise

 

       7        approved by the Planning and Development

 

       8        Department."

 

       9             Number 5, "A 20-foot-wide natural buffer

 

      10        around the perimeter shall remain undisturbed."

 

      11             Number 6, "Any future buildings shall be

 

      12        required to be approved through a new

 

      13        rezoning."

 

      14             Thank you.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crofts.

 

      16             Seeing no question on the amendment, all in

 

      17        favor signal by saying aye.

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.

 

      22             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second

 

      25        on 2008-145 as amended.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           38

 

 

       1             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

       2        record the vote.

 

       3             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       4             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      13        approved 2008-145.

 

      14             Top of page 7, 2008-192.  We will open that

 

      15        public hearing.  We have quite a few speakers.

 

      16             We will begin with Bill Lee, followed by

 

      17        Wade Hampton, followed by Joann Purdie.

 

      18             If you're here on 2008-192, come on down

 

      19        towards the front and help us speed up the

 

      20        process a little bit.

 

      21             (Audience member approaches the podium.).

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hampton, if you want to

 

      23        go first, that's fine.

 

      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That would be my request,

 

      25        Mr. Chairman.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           39

 

 

       1             Wade Hampton, 10110 San Jose Boulevard.

 

       2             I'm here as a representative of

 

       3        St. Vincent's Medical Center, which is the

 

       4        largest employer and I believe one of the

 

       5        largest property owners within the proposed

 

       6        Riverside Avondale overlay district.

 

       7             St. Vincent's has been involved in some

 

       8        form or another through this legislative process

 

       9        in putting this bill together and has had the

 

      10        pleasure of working with staff, council, the

 

      11        Riverside Avondale Preservation Society [sic],

 

      12        and a number of the neighbors.

 

      13             I'm happy to report to the LUZ that the

 

      14        hospital's concerns, most of them have been

 

      15        addressed and are embodied within the current

 

      16        third substitute of the bill.

 

      17             There is one issue, however, that the

 

      18        hospital would request that this committee

 

      19        consider.  It is a proposed amendment to adjust

 

      20        certain parking provisions of the zoning

 

      21        overlay.

 

      22             I have additional copies here, which I'd

 

      23        like to place into the record.  I know that

 

      24        various versions of these amendments have been

 

      25        floating around over the life of this bill.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           40

 

 

       1             In short, there is an anomaly which exists

 

       2        within the City's parking ordinance 656.604 that

 

       3        allows substantially reduced parking

 

       4        requirements at a permitting stage based upon an

 

       5        estimation of the number of staff that are going

 

       6        to be within a building.  Then once any change

 

       7        occurs thereafter -- a new tenant, a new use, an

 

       8        expanded business, more employees -- the parking

 

       9        problem is instantly created.  Cars end up in

 

      10        the streets, cars end up clogging the corridors

 

      11        through the overlay area, particularly to the

 

      12        hospital's emergency room, and end up on

 

      13        St. Vincent's Medical Center's property.

 

      14             Now, you're probably saying to yourself why

 

      15        are we hearing about this now; shouldn't we

 

      16        address this by fixing the ordinance for parking

 

      17        itself.  Well, that's one way.  Staff is going

 

      18        to tell you that.  Legal counsel will also offer

 

      19        this opportunity to you here.  And that would be

 

      20        correct if the overlay district simply adopted

 

      21        the parking ordinance as is, where --

 

      22        100 percent, without any changes.

 

      23             The problem is the overlay district

 

      24        incorporates the ordinance and then cuts the

 

      25        parking space requirement in half in certain

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           41

 

 

       1        circumstances or in thirds in other

 

       2        circumstances, thereby exacerbating the problems

 

       3        around the hospital.

 

       4             But amendments request an objective

 

       5        standard be added.  This objective standard is

 

       6        already within the ordinance itself just by

 

       7        merely making minor adjustments to the four or

 

       8        five sections in the character area design

 

       9        standard, which is an industry standard, two

 

      10        spaces for 500 square feet.  And this would fix

 

      11        and resolve all of the hospital's concerns, and

 

      12        St. Vincent's would be happy to support this

 

      13        ordinance if these amendments could be made.

 

      14             If the staff might suggest to you that we

 

      15        do this later in the parking ordinance or

 

      16        somewhere else, you could imagine what would

 

      17        occur.  You'd have a lot of permitting, a lot of

 

      18        building in the area, and then the bill would be

 

      19        adjusted to the parking permit.  And so you'd

 

      20        have a mad rush to get your project in under the

 

      21        old rule, before the new one, whereas this body

 

      22        could make that amendment now and resolve this

 

      23        issue for the hospital going forward.

 

      24             I have a representative of St. Vincent's,

 

      25        Mr. Bill Lee, here.  I'm happy to answer any

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           42

 

 

       1        questions that we have or discuss those design

 

       2        standards and industrial standards in more

 

       3        detail.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hampton.

 

       5             Mr. Lee, I have you next, followed by

 

       6        Joann Purdie, followed by Kay Ehas.

 

       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.

 

       9             I'm Bill Lee.  I'm the director of real

 

      10        estate and property management with

 

      11        St. Vincent's Medical Center, and I've been

 

      12        before this body before and brought statistics

 

      13        and information from MGMA, which is a

 

      14        benchmarking company that's highly known and

 

      15        respected in the medical industry.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Lee, hang on one second.

 

      17             Mr. Hampton, I'm going to have you sit down

 

      18        while he's speaking, please.

 

      19             MR. HAMPTON:  Yes, sir.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      21             MR. LEE:  And a result of that information,

 

      22        we were comparing, well, what -- how does

 

      23        medical space compare to professional office

 

      24        space.  And this comparison indicated the very

 

      25        same -- they were very similar, practically the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           43

 

 

       1        same, two spaces per 500, which is what

 

       2        professional office space is.

 

       3             What's been brought up in the past, in

 

       4        fact, before this body, by another applicant was

 

       5        some -- some information presented by the

 

       6        applicant that we -- we didn't agree with.  We

 

       7        thought that the number of doctors that were

 

       8        submitted and the number of staff and the number

 

       9        of exam rooms just didn't -- it didn't seem to

 

      10        meet the MGMA standards or what we've known to

 

      11        be for that parking, and the result of it was

 

      12        that about half of the parking was calculated to

 

      13        be needed.

 

      14             And if that applicant later -- which is --

 

      15        if that's what it was, that's what would have

 

      16        happened.  But if that applicant later changed

 

      17        his mind and said, "Gosh, I don't want medical

 

      18        space.  I'm having a hard time" -- for whatever

 

      19        reason, or whatever. "I don't have enough

 

      20        parking.  I'm going to convert it to

 

      21        professional office."  Well, guess what?

 

      22        There's not the number of parking spaces needed

 

      23        that are necessary in a professional office, the

 

      24        two for 500.

 

      25             We're trying to close that loophole.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           44

 

 

       1        That's what we're trying to do with our

 

       2        amendment and that's what it addresses.

 

       3             It addresses parking needs for office uses

 

       4        simply be four per 1,000 or two for 500.  That's

 

       5        how it's worded in the ordinance.  And then it's

 

       6        not going to be up to an applicant.  And

 

       7        before -- when it comes before the Planning

 

       8        staff to respond to the staff questions, which

 

       9        are, how many doctors, how many staff, and how

 

      10        many exam rooms.  Well, personally they

 

      11        shouldn't care.  It's office use, just do the

 

      12        calculation.  And if they convert it later,

 

      13        that's fine.  So be it.

 

      14             But, Councilman Corrigan, I know you

 

      15        supported -- you did not support 50 percent

 

      16        reduction in the office character area.  You

 

      17        actually suggested -- and it's in the ordinance

 

      18        now that there's only 35 percent reduction in

 

      19        that area.  And we support that, wholly support

 

      20        that.  Unfortunately, this loophole and this

 

      21        provision will allow an applicant more -- much

 

      22        more than 35 percent credit.  Perhaps a

 

      23        60 percent or even more.

 

      24             That's not acceptable to St. Vincent's.  We

 

      25        don't want that many cars going into the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           45

 

 

       1        neighborhood just because an applicant perhaps

 

       2        was inexperienced or maybe -- hopefully he

 

       3        didn't intentionally do it in the future, and

 

       4        we're trying to avoid that, and that's what this

 

       5        amendment suggests.

 

       6             Thank you.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       8             Our next speaker is Joann Purdie, followed

 

       9        by Kay Ehas, followed by Carmen Godwin.

 

      10             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Joann Purdie, 2210

 

      12        St. Johns Avenue.

 

      13             This has been a very long process, the

 

      14        Riverside Avondale overlay.  We've had numerous

 

      15        meetings with the Steering Committee, which I'm

 

      16        a member of the Steering Committee.  And the

 

      17        committee consisted of businesses, neighbors.

 

      18        Councilman Corrigan was very good in putting

 

      19        everybody he could think of, pro or con, on the

 

      20        Steering Committee so we could hash stuff out.

 

      21             We've had numerous public meetings with the

 

      22        neighborhood.  All and all, it was a give and

 

      23        take on both parts.  It's a very good ordinance,

 

      24        and I hope you would support it.

 

      25             Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           46

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       2             Kay Ehas, followed by Carmen Godwin,

 

       3        followed by Jack Shad.

 

       4             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon.

 

       6             Kay Ehas, 2322 Dellwood Avenue, member of

 

       7        the Steering Committee and Chair of Riverside

 

       8        Avondale Preservation.

 

       9             I'm here in support of the overlay bill,

 

      10        and I'm really here to thank three particular

 

      11        people.  It was a long, hard process, a lot of

 

      12        give and take.  As you can imagine, people in

 

      13        the neighborhood care deeply about their

 

      14        neighborhood and wanted to get this right.

 

      15             So I want to thank Dylan Reingold from

 

      16        General Counsel's Office, Sean Kelly from the

 

      17        Planning Department, and Michael Corrigan for

 

      18        their willingness to listen to concerns and

 

      19        ideas.  They have been totally patient,

 

      20        thoughtful, and creative throughout the process,

 

      21        and I wanted to just publicly thank them for

 

      22        that.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      24             Carmen Godwin, followed by Jack Shad,

 

      25        followed by Mark Rubin.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           47

 

 

       1             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.

 

       3             Carmen Godwin, 2623 Herschel Street.

 

       4             I am the new executive director for

 

       5        Riverside Avondale Preservation, so I'm here on

 

       6        behalf of that organization.

 

       7             The board of directors feel that the

 

       8        overlay is -- represents a pivotal move in

 

       9        Jacksonville's history as it will further

 

      10        protect the historic fabric of these valuable

 

      11        neighborhoods.

 

      12             Again, as others have said, RAP did not see

 

      13        everything that it wanted in the document, but

 

      14        we felt that it was important to offer

 

      15        compromise in order to meet the needs of our

 

      16        diverse community.  Those compromises included

 

      17        height increases in some places and relaxed

 

      18        parking requirements in others.

 

      19             The great thing about the overlay is that

 

      20        it doesn't take away anyone's rights, but it

 

      21        does offer added protection for the residential

 

      22        areas.  It also codifies the existing built

 

      23        environment, which will result in much fewer

 

      24        deviation and variance requests.

 

      25             Ultimately, we feel that the overlay is a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           48

 

 

       1        good document.  It took several years and many

 

       2        interested parties in putting it together.  And

 

       3        we hope that you will take the advice of those

 

       4        parties who have put so much of their time and

 

       5        expertise into this document and approve it.

 

       6             Thank you.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       8             I have Jack Shad, followed by Mark Rubin.

 

       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Jack Shad.

 

      12             Do you need my address or --

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, please.

 

      14             MR. J. SHAD:  Okay.  1022 Park Street,

 

      15        Number 201.

 

      16             I'm here as a resident of Avondale, as a

 

      17        member of RAP, and as someone who has done a

 

      18        redevelopment project in the district, and I

 

      19        also served on the Steering Committee.

 

      20             We believe that the overlay will reduce the

 

      21        difficulty for homeowners seeking to upgrade

 

      22        their property.  They'll need to seek fewer

 

      23        deviations and variances.  It will reduce the

 

      24        number of PUDs required to redevelop properties,

 

      25        simplify the process, and should provide more

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           49

 

 

       1        predictability for developers.

 

       2             If there are any questions, I'd be happy to

 

       3        answer them.  Otherwise --

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.  I appreciate

 

       5        it.  No questions at this point.

 

       6             Our final speaker is Mark Rubin.

 

       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, members of

 

      10        the committee, Mr. Chairman.

 

      11             I'm Mark Rubin, 1649 Atlantic Boulevard,

 

      12        Jacksonville.

 

      13             I'm also a member of the Steering

 

      14        Committee, as well as a real estate developer

 

      15        who has developed projects in the Riverside

 

      16        Avondale area.  We own property there.  And we

 

      17        have done projects in the past; we intend to do

 

      18        more in the future.

 

      19             I, too, was on the committee.  We've had a

 

      20        couple of years worth of meetings.  I confirm

 

      21        the accolades for the Chairman as well as

 

      22        Mr. Reingold and Mr. Kelly, and other members of

 

      23        staff, as well as RAP, and all the people that

 

      24        attended the Steering Committee.  It was a long

 

      25        effort and it was emotional at times.  A lot of

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        people had different agendas, but in the end,

 

       2        we -- it was a -- it was -- it was a battle.  It

 

       3        was a give-and-take battle that ultimately

 

       4        resolved in compromise.  And compromise is

 

       5        nobody getting exactly what they want, but

 

       6        everybody being comfortable with what they --

 

       7        what we've achieved.  And I think what we've

 

       8        achieved, from an overall standpoint, is

 

       9        something that's really good for the Riverside

 

      10        Avondale area.

 

      11             I'm a little troubled by Mr. Lee's comments

 

      12        and Mr. Hampton's comments because this is the

 

      13        first I hear of this issue.  And Mr. Lee was on

 

      14        the Steering Committee, and this issue -- I'm

 

      15        not exactly sure what he's asking for in the

 

      16        amendment, but I -- from what I heard, I think

 

      17        I'm against it because it opens Pandora's box in

 

      18        terms of creating a whole other level of

 

      19        regulation.

 

      20             The time to raise this was at the Steering

 

      21        Committee.  Mr. Lee has certainly had an

 

      22        opportunity to do that.  I didn't hear this

 

      23        raised anywhere else.  So it's new and it's

 

      24        really too late to address this issue as far as

 

      25        I'm concerned because it was -- it might have

 

 

 

 

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       1        been appropriate when there was the compromise

 

       2        process going back and forth, but to throw it in

 

       3        now at the end, without understanding all the

 

       4        ramifications -- which there could be many, one

 

       5        of which is how do you police it.

 

       6             When you start off with one use and then

 

       7        you're concerned about some use changing within

 

       8        office versus medical, it's a very complicated

 

       9        analysis.  The zoning code -- and I would ask

 

      10        you to ask staff about that, if you choose to

 

      11        discuss this more.

 

      12             But the zoning code specifically talks

 

      13        about medical uses versus office uses and makes

 

      14        distinctions between them.  And to come up here

 

      15        and wave some acronym, MGMA, without any

 

      16        foundation or basis or evidence to -- to compare

 

      17        and to validate what they've said is really

 

      18        inappropriate at the 11th hour.

 

      19             So I would -- I would implore this

 

      20        committee to not entertain any amendments and

 

      21        ratify the good work of the Steering Committee

 

      22        and ratify the Planning Commission, which has

 

      23        passed this.

 

      24             And thank you for your time.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             I don't see any other speakers, so we'll

 

       2        close that public hearing.

 

       3             We have a substitute.

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  Move the sub.

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

       7        substitute.

 

       8             Seeing no discussion on the substitute, all

 

       9        in favor signal by saying aye.

 

      10             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  The substitute carries.

 

      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as subbed.

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  Second.

 

      16             Councilmember --

 

      17             I have a motion and second on the bill as

 

      18        subbed.

 

      19             Councilmember Clark.

 

      20             MR. CLARK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      21             I do have a couple of questions since it's

 

      22        clearly an issue with parking in Riverside.  And

 

      23        I'm just curious, listening to Mr. Rubin and

 

      24        St. Vincent's -- if I could ask a question of

 

      25        Mr. Lee and find out, if indeed, was this issue

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        raised during the committee meetings?  If not,

 

       2        why.  And -- and should you have fought more

 

       3        vehemently for it.

 

       4             (Mr. Lee approaches the podium.)

 

       5             MR. LEE:  Well, the -- no.  No, the answer

 

       6        was it was not raised in the committee

 

       7        meetings.  I don't believe it was foreseen by

 

       8        the committee members, at least those that I was

 

       9        present with, until a particular application

 

      10        came forth called Doctors Village.  And it

 

      11        was -- it raised our eyebrows as well as many of

 

      12        yours.

 

      13             A lot of that application had to do with --

 

      14        specifically, it was approximately 12 physician

 

      15        offices that was presented to the staff.  Each

 

      16        office was 4,000 square feet.  And from that

 

      17        information, there was an assumption that that

 

      18        would be one physician per office and it would

 

      19        require so many exam rooms and so many staff

 

      20        based on whatever information the applicant

 

      21        worked out or discussed with the Planning

 

      22        staff.

 

      23             That information would have provided what

 

      24        we thought was half -- 50 percent of the number

 

      25        of parking spaces that were actually needed.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        And from that moment on, everybody has been

 

       2        involved, or at least been aware of our concern.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  And I can explain it a

 

       4        little bit, if I could, Councilman Clark.

 

       5             That -- this particular issue was not

 

       6        discussed at length at the overlay committee

 

       7        meetings I went to, but parking has been a huge

 

       8        discussion in this overlay process.  I mean,

 

       9        it's what to do in existing commercial and

 

      10        office and residential areas and everything

 

      11        else.  So parking has been probably one of the

 

      12        top two or three issues in this overlay.

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  Well, to my point.  I mean, we

 

      14        have seen and RAP has obviously had to deal with

 

      15        a tremendous amount of conversion, trying to

 

      16        keep things historically.  We have banks that

 

      17        try to keep those historically, even though

 

      18        they're no longer residential, things like

 

      19        that.  And we see it time and time again.  And,

 

      20        you know, my concern is -- as with any

 

      21        development, and predominantly a historic

 

      22        area -- the parking is woefully inadequate when

 

      23        you start turning uses from residential to

 

      24        commercial.

 

      25             And to St. Vincent's point, they're the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        ones who bear the burden.  I mean, they're the

 

       2        ones who basically turn into the overflow

 

       3        parking lot, so I understand their concern.

 

       4             And from a -- if I could ask the Planning

 

       5        Department, I mean, what's your feeling on

 

       6        how -- I mean, we've been pretty strict on the

 

       7        parking to date.  Is that a loophole that you

 

       8        see as going to be a long-term issue that we're

 

       9        going to have to face time and time again, or

 

      10        what -- what do you see?

 

      11             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair to

 

      12        Councilmember Clark, no, I don't think there's a

 

      13        loophole.

 

      14             Parking requirements today in Part 6

 

      15        clearly delineate medical office parking needs

 

      16        versus professional office parking needs.

 

      17        There's two separate standards there.

 

      18             Again, I mean, this did come up, in fact,

 

      19        yesterday.  My fear is the unintended

 

      20        consequences of adopting this all of a sudden,

 

      21        potentially making numerous medical offices that

 

      22        are existing nonconforming.  Also, you're

 

      23        encouraging more surface parking lots in a

 

      24        historic neighborhood, which is something we

 

      25        don't want to do.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             And so I think it's probably -- again, it's

 

       2        the wrong place, it's the wrong time.  Again,

 

       3        you go to a suburban area of town and they're

 

       4        going to be required potentially to have less

 

       5        parking than would be otherwise required in

 

       6        Riverside for the same use.

 

       7             So, to me, it's not appropriate.  We're not

 

       8        supportive of any amendment with regards to the

 

       9        parking.

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  Thank you.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, I'll tell you, I'm

 

      12        a -- I've been a little surprised at

 

      13        St. Vincent's position because in every hospital

 

      14        I go to, there's a parking problem.  And so I'm

 

      15        a little bewildered on their position that they

 

      16        want to increase the amount of parking.

 

      17             But it is a problem existing.  I

 

      18        actually -- and Sean Kelly and I have had a

 

      19        lengthy discussion on this.  I disagree with our

 

      20        parking ordinance now.  I think that it needs

 

      21        some attention, and why we're letting less for

 

      22        medical when a standard office is not going to

 

      23        get near as many visits as a medical office, so

 

      24        I have some issues with that.

 

      25             And if we don't take them up here on this

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        bill, I'm going to take them up on the general

 

       2        parking bill because I think that we need to

 

       3        look at that and see if we have the right number

 

       4        because I think it's an issue and I think

 

       5        St. Vincent's is correct, it's an issue on this

 

       6        one.

 

       7             So I have mixed emotions, and I've spent --

 

       8        I don't know how many hundreds of hours on this

 

       9        particular overlay trying to get it correct and

 

      10        continue to think that it's better for the

 

      11        community.  So thank you.

 

      12             Do you have questions?

 

      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't see any other

 

      15        speakers, so let's open the ballot and record

 

      16        the vote.

 

      17             MR. REINGOLD:  Did you move the sub?

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did we move the sub?

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  We did.

 

      20             MR. REINGOLD:  Did you move the amendment?

 

      21             (Inaudible discussion.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're in good order.

 

      23             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      24             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your actions, you've

 

       8        passed 2008-192.

 

       9             And let me echo some of the comments that

 

      10        were said earlier to the Planning staff,

 

      11        especially Sean Kelly and the Historic

 

      12        Preservation planning staff, and to

 

      13        Dylan Reingold from OGC.

 

      14             A tremendous amount of work went into this

 

      15        document.  I appreciate all the energy to this

 

      16        point.  And I'm sure we've missed a couple of

 

      17        things in this process, and we'll probably have

 

      18        to come back at times and look at it, but we'll

 

      19        be happy to.

 

      20             Dylan Reingold.

 

      21             MR. REINGOLD:  To the Chair, I know my name

 

      22        has been brought up a bunch, but I would also at

 

      23        least like to acknowledge Mr. Jason Teal, who is

 

      24        also here.  He worked on this diligently also

 

      25        for -- put in plenty of hours on this.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  And I did not see him back

 

       2        there.

 

       3             Jason, I appreciate all your help on this

 

       4        as well.

 

       5             This has been worked on for about

 

       6        two-and-a-half years, so I appreciate it.

 

       7             We are on to item 19, 2008-227.

 

       8             We'll open that public hearing.

 

       9             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      10        public hearing.

 

      11             2008-231.  We'll open that public hearing.

 

      12             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that

 

      13        public hearing.

 

      14             We have an ex-parte declaration by

 

      15        Councilmember Yarborough.

 

      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      17             I know we're not taking action on it

 

      18        tonight.  I just wanted to declare ex-parte.

 

      19             2008-231, I talked with attorney Anna Shea

 

      20        and also Todd Plantis (phonetic) of Racetrac

 

      21        Gasoline Company about the revised site plan in

 

      22        my office on May 28th at 3 o'clock to discuss

 

      23        the site plan and also the impact to the

 

      24        surrounding properties.

 

      25             Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,

 

       2        Councilmember Yarborough.

 

       3             We are now on the top of page 8.  2008-236

 

       4        is deferred.

 

       5             Item 22, 2008-258.  We will open that

 

       6        public hearing.

 

       7             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

       8        hearing.

 

       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the sub.

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion and a

 

      12        second on the substitute to -258.

 

      13             Seeing no discussion on the sub, all in

 

      14        favor of the sub signal by saying aye.

 

      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      17             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  The substitute carries.

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  Move to rerefer.

 

      20             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second

 

      22        to rerefer 2008-258 as substituted.

 

      23             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      24        record the vote.

 

      25             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       8        subbed and rereferred 2008-258.

 

       9             We're on item 23, 2008-268.  The

 

      10        aforementioned Mr. Paul Harden is here to speak

 

      11        on that bill.

 

      12             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      13             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace

 

      14        Boulevard.

 

      15             This is a PUD which coordinates two land

 

      16        use map amendments that have already been

 

      17        approved by the council.  They were in separate

 

      18        zoning classifications.  The -- this PUD is to

 

      19        just put them all into one -- one zoning so that

 

      20        the land use is now consistent with the zoning.

 

      21             The Planning Commission had an amendment

 

      22        that was approved by the Planning Department

 

      23        that we are in agreement to.

 

      24             I'll be happy to answer any questions.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             I don't see any questions for you at this

 

       2        point, so we'll go ahead and close that public

 

       3        hearing.

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second

 

       7        on the amendment to -268.

 

       8             Let's go to the Planning Department for the

 

       9        explanation of the amendment.

 

      10             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

 

      11             The amendment consists of the following:

 

      12             Condition number 1, "The development shall

 

      13        be subject to the revised legal description

 

      14        dated June 12, 2008."

 

      15             Number 2, "The development shall be subject

 

      16        to the original written description dated

 

      17        February 22, 2008."

 

      18             Number 3, "The development shall be subject

 

      19        to the original site plan dated February 22,

 

      20        2008."

 

      21             Number 4, "No maintenance, repair or body

 

      22        shop uses shall occur on the western 100 feet of

 

      23        the property."

 

      24             Number 5, "The 35-foot setback buffer along

 

      25        the west property line shall consist of a 4-inch

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        diameter breast height evergreen tree planted

 

       2        for every 25 feet of the uncomplementary land

 

       3        use boundary.  All other planting and visual

 

       4        screening requirements of section 656.1216 of

 

       5        the zoning code shall apply."

 

       6             Number 6 and finally, "There shall be no

 

       7        signage on Townsend Boulevard within 100 feet of

 

       8        a residentially-zoned property."

 

       9             Thank you, sir.

 

      10             MR. HARDEN:  The dates are wrong on the

 

      11        written description, the site plan.  I think we

 

      12        corrected them at Planning Commission.  The site

 

      13        plan and written description were updated and

 

      14        include both pieces of property.  That's dated

 

      15        June 12th as well, the site plan and written

 

      16        description.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're getting that verified

 

      18        by the Planning Department.

 

      19             MR. CROFTS:  That would be correct.

 

      20             So the first three conditions would all

 

      21        reference June 12th, 2008.

 

      22             Thank you.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  That's correct.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  And you agree to that,

 

      25        Mr. Harden?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.

 

       3             Councilmember Lee.

 

       4             MS. LEE:  Yes.  I have a question, through

 

       5        the Chair, to Mr. Kelly.

 

       6             Mr. Kelly, the conditions that you just

 

       7        read, are those conditions recommended by the

 

       8        Planning Department?

 

       9             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

      10             The Planning Commission adopted -- or

 

      11        recommended approval with the conditions

 

      12        indicated in the letter.  The only changes were

 

      13        to the dates of the legal description, written

 

      14        description, and the site plan.

 

      15             MS. LEE:  How were the conditions -- how

 

      16        did the conditions come up?  Was there -- the

 

      17        neighbors or any particular business?  Who

 

      18        recommended the conditions?  How did they get

 

      19        there?

 

      20             MR. KELLY:  The Planning Department.

 

      21             MS. LEE:  The Planning Department thought

 

      22        those conditions were necessary?

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

      24             Based on the site plan and the extent of

 

      25        the use, the original -- or the site plan

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           65

 

 

       1        essentially originally showed one building that

 

       2        basically bisected two separate PUDs.  So the

 

       3        reason for the revision was to incorporate this

 

       4        as one legal description and then rezone the

 

       5        entire automotive dealership.

 

       6             But the buffering standards that were in

 

       7        place identified the 30-foot -- basically

 

       8        35-foot setback, and then we had restrictions on

 

       9        the uses that could occur within 100 feet of the

 

      10        residential uses.

 

      11             MS. LEE:  Okay.  And this is the --

 

      12             Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

 

      13             (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.

 

      15             Any further discussion on the amendment?

 

      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor of

 

      18        the amendment signify by saying aye.

 

      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      20             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

      21             MR. FRANKLIN:  (Inaudible.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is this on this bill?

 

      23             Hang on one second.

 

      24             Ms. Eller, would it be okay if we reopen

 

      25        the public hearing?  We just had a speaker come

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        up.  Would that be in procedure?

 

       2             MS. ELLER:  (Nods head.)

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll open the public

 

       4        hearing back briefly.

 

       5             Tim Franklin to speak to this bill.  If

 

       6        you'd come up and state your name and address

 

       7        for the record, please, sir.

 

       8             (Mr. Franklin approaches the podium.)

 

       9             MR. FRANKLIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.  Good

 

      10        evening, committee members.

 

      11             Tim Franklin, 408 Seagate Avenue.

 

      12             I'm here on behalf of Hershel Jackson, who

 

      13        lives on the property, just to the west of this,

 

      14        for about 500 feet along the western boundary

 

      15        line of the dealership property.

 

      16             He lives adjacent to the -- originally

 

      17        there was a small .85 parcel going in with a

 

      18        separate PUD.  And as Mr. Kelly ably explained,

 

      19        the amendment here goes to combining that with

 

      20        the prior PUD, going PUD to PUD as opposed to

 

      21        having two different PUDs with two different

 

      22        written descriptions for part of the dealership

 

      23        property and this property.

 

      24             I just wanted to say, we had some concerns

 

      25        about the bill originally as it was drafted with

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           67

 

 

       1        the inclusion of -- I believe it's conditions 3

 

       2        and 4 that the Planning Commission recommended,

 

       3        namely, the 35-foot uncomplementary buffer.  And

 

       4        also a restriction on automotive sales -- excuse

 

       5        me -- automotive repair work and automotive body

 

       6        work within 100 feet of that western boundary.

 

       7             With those two conditions that we worked

 

       8        with the Planning Department on, we're okay with

 

       9        the bill as it's written.  We think it will

 

      10        provide a sufficient buffer to our property.

 

      11             Without those conditions, though, I'm

 

      12        afraid that it's going to significantly

 

      13        devalue -- devalue the property to the west of

 

      14        my client and, frankly, ruin his quality of life

 

      15        with the kind of impacts you'd expect from a

 

      16        large PUD like this.

 

      17             So with those two conditions, though, we

 

      18        are -- we are not opposed to this bill.

 

      19             Thank you.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      21             Questions for Mr. Franklin?

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, we will reclose

 

      24        the public hearing.

 

      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  Move the bill.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           68

 

 

       1             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the

 

       3        bill as amended.

 

       4             Any discussion?

 

       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the

 

       7        ballot.

 

       8             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       9             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      16             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

      18        approved 2008-268 as amended.

 

      19             Committee members, page 9.  2008-279 is

 

      20        deferred, as well as 2008-280.

 

      21             We've already taken up 2008-313, so we'll

 

      22        move to 2008-314.

 

      23             We'll open the public hearing.

 

      24             MS. LEE:  Move to defer --

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           69

 

 

       1             MS. LEE:  I'm sorry.  Go ahead.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Lee, did you --

 

       3             There were no speakers, so we'll go ahead

 

       4        and close that public hearing.

 

       5             Go ahead, Ms. Lee.

 

       6             MS. LEE:  Yes.  Mr. Chairman, I would

 

       7        like -- I would like for this bill to be

 

       8        deferred.  As you can see, the Planning

 

       9        Department has recommended denial.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, ma'am.

 

      11             MS. LEE:  And the representatives of this

 

      12        particular rezoning have requested to talk to me

 

      13        concerning this matter.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      15             MS. LEE:  And in fairness to them, I would

 

      16        like the opportunity to speak with them.  That

 

      17        has no bearing on my decision of how I'm going

 

      18        to vote, but I think, just out of courtesy, that

 

      19        I would like to oblige them.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let me ask our Chairman.

 

      21             Mr. Corrigan, request to defer -314.  Is

 

      22        that -- will that be acceptable, sir?

 

      23             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Inaudible.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Lee, we'll defer -314.

 

      25             I'm sorry.  We'll reopen the public hearing

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           70

 

 

       1        and we'll continue it to the next committee

 

       2        meeting.

 

       3             MS. ELLER:  Yes.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Which I'm not sure what date

 

       5        in July that is, but the next time LUZ meets,

 

       6        we'll continue.

 

       7             July 15th.

 

       8             Ms. Lee, go ahead.

 

       9             MS. LEE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      10             And, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate this

 

      11        because it is in the area that I represent, you

 

      12        know.  And I just think common courtesy would --

 

      13        you know.

 

      14             So thank you.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  You're welcome, Ms. Lee.

 

      16        Thank you.

 

      17             2008-314 will be deferred.

 

      18             Committee members, top of page 10,

 

      19        2008-361.  We'll open the public hearing.

 

      20             We have one speaker, Emily Pierce.

 

      21             (Ms. Pierce approaches the podium.)

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      23             If you'd state your name and address,

 

      24        Ms. Pierce.

 

      25             MS. PIERCE:  Emily Pierce, 1301 Riverplace

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           71

 

 

       1        Boulevard.

 

       2             This is a PUD to PUD rezoning in Councilman

 

       3        Corrigan's district.  We have spoken and met

 

       4        with him about it.  We have a Planning

 

       5        Department recommendation of approval and

 

       6        Planning Commission support, and I request your

 

       7        support.

 

       8             Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      10             Questions for Ms. Pierce?

 

      11             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Were you up from last time?

 

      13             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That's all right.

 

      15             Any questions for Ms. Pierce?

 

      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll close the public

 

      18        hearing.

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

      20             MR. CORRIGAN:  Second.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

      22        amendment.

 

      23             Mr. Crofts.

 

      24             MR. CROFTS:  Yes.  The amendment is as

 

      25        follows:

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           72

 

 

       1             Condition number 1, "The developer shall be

 

       2        subject to the original legal description dated

 

       3        April 10, 2008."

 

       4             Number 2, "The developer shall be subject

 

       5        to the original written description dated

 

       6        April 10, 2008."

 

       7             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject

 

       8        to the original site plan dated April 9, 2008."

 

       9             Number 4 and finally, "Transportation

 

      10        improvements shall be made in accordance with

 

      11        the Development Services memorandum dated

 

      12        April 30, 2008, or as otherwise approved by the

 

      13        Planning and Development Department."

 

      14             Thank you.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crofts.

 

      16             Ms. Pierce, you're in agreement with the

 

      17        conditions as read?

 

      18             MS. PIERCE:  Yes, we are.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  We haven't voted on the

 

      22        amendment yet.

 

      23             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor of the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           73

 

 

       1        amendment say aye.

 

       2             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       3             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Now we can move the bill as

 

       5        amended.

 

       6             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  There's a motion and second

 

       8        on the bill as amended.

 

       9             Any discussion?

 

      10             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the

 

      12        ballot.

 

      13             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      14             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      23             By your action, you have approved 2008-361

 

      24        as amended.

 

      25             2008-362.  We'll open the public hearing.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           74

 

 

       1             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue the

 

       2        public hearing with no other action this

 

       3        evening.

 

       4             2008-363.  We'll open the public hearing.

 

       5             We have one speaker, Mr. Hainline.

 

       6             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, sir.

 

       8             MR. HAINLINE:  Good evening.

 

       9             T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.

 

      10             This is PUD amendment for Metro Square,

 

      11        down at University Boulevard and Emerson.  As

 

      12        you know, Metro Square has really helped to pull

 

      13        that area up, and they want to add some

 

      14        entitlements.  And we've worked well with the

 

      15        Planning Department to come up with conditions.

 

      16             The only -- and I'm happy to answer any

 

      17        questions.

 

      18             The only thing I would ask you to be sure

 

      19        and do is to amend it to include the Planning

 

      20        Commission conditions because the Commission

 

      21        changed one of the conditions with the agreement

 

      22        of the Planning Department at the Planning

 

      23        Commission meeting.

 

      24             So that would be the only point I would

 

      25        make, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           75

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       2             Questions for Mr. Hainline?

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none and no further

 

       5        speakers, we'll close that public hearing.

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.

 

       7             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

       9        amendment.

 

      10             Mr. Crofts.

 

      11             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment is as follows:

 

      12             "The development shall be subject to the

 

      13        original legal description dated April 21,

 

      14        2008."

 

      15             Number 2, "The development shall be subject

 

      16        to the original written description dated

 

      17        April 21, 2008."

 

      18             Number 3, "The development shall be subject

 

      19        to the original site plan dated April 16,

 

      20        2008."

 

      21             Number 4, "The development shall be subject

 

      22        to the Development Services memorandum dated

 

      23        April 30, 2008, and the FDOT memorandum dated

 

      24        June 2, 2008, or as otherwise approved by the

 

      25        Planning and Development Department."

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           76

 

 

       1             Fifth and finally, "Signage exhibits per

 

       2        enacted ordinance 2003-836-E shall still

 

       3        apply."

 

       4             That concludes the amendment.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crofts.

 

       6             Mr. Hainline, are you in agreement?

 

       7             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  He's acknowledging

 

       9        that.

 

      10             Thank you, Mr. Crofts.

 

      11             All in favor of the amendment say aye.

 

      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any opposed?

 

      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      16        approved the amendment.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

      20        bill as amended.

 

      21             Any discussion?

 

      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the

 

      24        ballot.

 

      25             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           77

 

 

       1             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       8             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      10        approved 2008-363 as amended.

 

      11             2008-364.  We'll open the public hearing.

 

      12        We have one speaker, Mr. Hart.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, sir.

 

      15             If you'll state your name and address,

 

      16        please.

 

      17             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Justin Hart, 8051 Tara

 

      18        Lane.

 

      19             I'm here to ask for your support for a

 

      20        minimum road frontage waiver so Mr. Alvarez can

 

      21        build a house on his 120-acre farm.  He

 

      22        currently has a 60-foot easement.

 

      23             There's been some miscommunication.  And if

 

      24        you read the staff report, they've made a

 

      25        mistake.  They've written the staff report based

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           78

 

 

       1        on five acres.  I think I can easily explain

 

       2        that.

 

       3             I want to be clear that this is one RE

 

       4        number.  It's on a 120-acre farm with a 60-foot

 

       5        easement off Arnold Road.

 

       6             When I applied for the minimum road

 

       7        frontage waiver, it was brought to my attention

 

       8        that you need a signed and sealed, up-to-date

 

       9        legal survey.  After explaining that it would

 

      10        cost up above 40 grand to get a survey of the

 

      11        whole 120 acres, we've come up with a solution

 

      12        to just survey the 5-acre parcel that his house

 

      13        and his barn is going to go on.

 

      14             And so, when I filled out the application,

 

      15        I put in that it would be a five -- this is a

 

      16        5-acre parcel of the 120 under one RE number.

 

      17        However, if you read your staff report, it's

 

      18        based on five acres.

 

      19             I want to reiterate this is one parcel of

 

      20        land, 120 acres.

 

      21             Currently, Arnold Road and Pecan Park Road

 

      22        has several new subdivisions.  The average

 

      23        density of those subdivisions is three units per

 

      24        acre.  Also, the blue book states that in order

 

      25        to build a subdivision, you have to have a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           79

 

 

       1        50-foot easement for a subdivision, no matter

 

       2        how large.

 

       3             So I'm here to say that currently the area

 

       4        has a density of three to -- three units per one

 

       5        acre.  And 95 percent of subdivisions in

 

       6        Jacksonville only have a 50-foot easement into

 

       7        those subdivisions.

 

       8             What we're asking for is to allow

 

       9        Mr. Alvarez to build a house on his family's

 

      10        120-acre farm.  He has a 60-foot easement, which

 

      11        is 10 foot more than 95 percent of all

 

      12        subdivisions in Duval County.

 

      13             However, it's not curb and guttered and

 

      14        paved.  It is well-maintained, and it serves

 

      15        only his house and Mr. Alvarez's house.

 

      16             I would appreciate your support.  Here to

 

      17        answer any questions.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hart.

 

      19             Any questions?

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, we'll close the

 

      22        public hearing.

 

      23             I will entertain a motion.

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  Move to grant --

 

      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  Second.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           80

 

 

       1             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair --

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly --

 

       3             There's a motion and second to grant.

 

       4             Mr. Kelly.

 

       5             MR. KELLY:  Yes, sir.

 

       6             We, at this time, would change our

 

       7        position.  We do have a couple of amendments

 

       8        based on the miscommunication with regards to

 

       9        the acreage.

 

      10             It was under- -- I guess the thought was

 

      11        that they -- essentially by allowing a waiver,

 

      12        they'd be creating an illegal lot which didn't

 

      13        conform to the underlying land use.  So that was

 

      14        part of the reasoning of our denial.

 

      15             And, at this time, I think we're in a

 

      16        posture to support the request subject to a

 

      17        couple of conditions.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Do we need to --

 

      19             Ms. Eller, do we need to entertain another

 

      20        amendment or can we roll it all into the one

 

      21        amendment?

 

      22             MS. ELLER:  To the Chairman, you may roll

 

      23        all of that into an amendment to grant the

 

      24        waiver.  I would request that the Planning

 

      25        Department read those proposed conditions for

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           81

 

 

       1        the committee's consideration.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, ma'am.

 

       3             We've already moved -- there's been a

 

       4        motion and a second.

 

       5             Mr. Kelly, if you'll go ahead and read

 

       6        those.

 

       7             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.

 

       8             The first condition would be that, "The

 

       9        address shall be clearly marked at the terminus

 

      10        of the Arnold Road public right-of-way."

 

      11             Additionally, "The subject 120-acre

 

      12        property shall not be further subdivided unless

 

      13        the Arnold Road roadway is brought into

 

      14        compliance with City standards."

 

      15             Based on those two conditions, we're

 

      16        recommending approval.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Hart, are you in

 

      18        agreement with the conditions, sir?

 

      19             MR. HART:  I would agree to the

 

      20        conditions.  However, if we could add somewhere

 

      21        in the second condition if for some reason in

 

      22        the foreseeable next 20 years one of

 

      23        Mr. Alvarez's other daughters or sons wanted to

 

      24        build a house out there on the farm, maybe allow

 

      25        it for family members because this is a family

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           82

 

 

       1        farm.  His son currently lives on a 10-acre

 

       2        parcel next to this farm that was pre1969, so he

 

       3        didn't have to do this.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Corrigan.

 

       5             MR. CORRIGAN:  Through the Chair to the

 

       6        Planning Department, I think there's already a

 

       7        provision in the code that allows a family

 

       8        member to build on a piece of property, isn't

 

       9        there?

 

      10             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

      11             This property has zero road frontage.  The

 

      12        family homestead provision in the land use

 

      13        element allows for additional family members

 

      14        basically to come in through a -- the family

 

      15        homestead partition, so to speak, which wouldn't

 

      16        require the lineal consanguinity to require each

 

      17        individual parcel that gets subdivided, but

 

      18        there is that provision within the future land

 

      19        use element.

 

      20             MR. CORRIGAN:  Okay.  Mr. Hart, I don't

 

      21        think it's necessary.  I think it can already

 

      22        happen.

 

      23             MR. HART:  Thank you.

 

      24             MR. CORRIGAN:  So I think you're okay.

 

      25             MR. HART:  No problem.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Any discussion on the

 

       2        amendment?

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  All in favor of the

 

       5        amendment signify by saying aye.

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  By your action,

 

       8        you've approved the amendment.

 

       9             MR. CORRIGAN:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Which -- and that's to

 

      12        grant?

 

      13             MR. CORRIGAN:  To grant the waiver.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, sir.

 

      15             Motion and second to move the amendment to

 

      16        grant the wavier.

 

      17             Any discussion?

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the

 

      20        ballot.

 

      21             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      22             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       4             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

       6        granted the waiver on 2008-364.

 

       7             Top of page 11.  2008-365.  We'll open the

 

       8        public hearing.

 

       9             We have a few speakers.  Janice Smith,

 

      10        followed by Mr. Darrell Smith.

 

      11             If you'll come forward.

 

      12             Are they here?

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Sir, I'm going to ask to

 

      14        be excused because I've been coughing.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Ms. Smith.

 

      16             Ms. Smith chooses not to speak.

 

      17             Mr. Smith, if you'd come forward.

 

      18             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  State your name and address

 

      20        for the record, please.

 

      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Mr. Chairman, Darrell

 

      22        Smith, 1892 Buccaneer Drive.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Smith, go ahead.

 

      24             MR. SMITH:  We -- we currently have over

 

      25        three acres on our piece of property now that

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           85

 

 

       1        we've had -- made into two parcels.  And we've

 

       2        got a single-family on parcel 1 now, and we're

 

       3        asking your support in building another dwelling

 

       4        on parcel 2 there.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Smith.

 

       6             MR. SMITH:  Yes, sir.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Appreciate you being here

 

       8        tonight.

 

       9             Thank you.

 

      10             MR. SMITH:  Yes, sir.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no further speakers,

 

      12        we'll close that public hearing.

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  Move to grant.

 

      14             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

      16        amendment to grant.

 

      17             Any discussion?

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      19             MR. KELLY:  (Indicating.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'll turn to Mr. Kelly.

 

      21             Sorry about that.  I didn't have it written

 

      22        here.

 

      23             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.

 

      24             To the Chair, ordinance 2008-365 is a

 

      25        waiver of road frontage seeking to reduce the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           86

 

 

       1        required road frontage from eighty feet to zero

 

       2        feet.  The subject property is located at 1892

 

       3        Buccaneer Drive.

 

       4             A previous request for a waiver of road

 

       5        frontage was granted for the existing dwelling

 

       6        on the property back in 2005 from 80 feet to

 

       7        45 feet.  That waiver was approved with a

 

       8        condition that precluded a second principal

 

       9        structure from being constructed on the two-acre

 

      10        property.

 

      11             This waiver, again, has the effect of

 

      12        legitimizing the existing dwelling that was

 

      13        approved in 2005.  Again, this request is

 

      14        basically to subdivide the property, thus

 

      15        creating the need for the additional waiver.

 

      16             We've reviewed the application.  We find

 

      17        that it is meeting the criteria.  We do have the

 

      18        one condition of approval that, "There shall be

 

      19        a 25-foot-wide, clear and unobstructed visual

 

      20        access easement to the waterway from Buccaneer

 

      21        Drive."

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

 

      23             Mr. Smith, are you in agreement?

 

      24             MR. SMITH:  Mr. Chairman, if I could ask

 

      25        the board's support -- if we could waive the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           87

 

 

       1        25-foot visible access.  It's really only

 

       2        visible from the roadway, from the road.  You

 

       3        know, in the future we might -- a new dwelling,

 

       4        we might put a privacy fence or something across

 

       5        the section.

 

       6             If there's any way that you-all could waive

 

       7        that 25-foot right-of-way there, I would sure

 

       8        appreciate it -- from the board.  There's really

 

       9        no significant value of it being there because

 

      10        it's really not going to be for -- helpful for

 

      11        anyone other than somebody standing in the road

 

      12        to see it.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let me -- Councilman Clark,

 

      14        go ahead, this is in your district -- or staff.

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  I tell you, I mean, I've been

 

      16        out in Buccaneer.  There's -- he's out there on

 

      17        a point.  There's nothing else out there.

 

      18        There's -- you know, he's just -- it's them,

 

      19        marsh, and yellow flies.

 

      20             MR. SMITH:  Yes, sir.

 

      21             MR. CLARK:  So, you know, I don't think

 

      22        they're going to mind.

 

      23             MR. SMITH:  (Inaudible.)

 

      24             MR. CLARK:  So is that a --

 

      25             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair to Councilman

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        Clark, I guess my only concern is what -- he

 

       2        indicated putting up a privacy fence in a front

 

       3        yard, which would be illegal under the terms of

 

       4        the zoning code.

 

       5             Again, the intent of the zoning code, under

 

       6        656.419, is to maintain that visual access to

 

       7        the river, to those navigable waterways.  So we

 

       8        wouldn't be supportive of it without the

 

       9        condition.

 

      10             MR. SMITH:  Well, I was mainly referring to

 

      11        maybe a privacy fence towards the back part of

 

      12        the yard or maybe a shed or something along the

 

      13        lines, or even moving the house over a little

 

      14        bit.

 

      15             You know, if it was going to make a

 

      16        difference for the neighbors or for -- you know,

 

      17        for people to see better out towards the marsh,

 

      18        I could understand it, but I really don't think

 

      19        it's going to be beneficial to anybody to have

 

      20        that covenant on it to where we can't maybe

 

      21        slide the house over when we build it a little

 

      22        closer to the property line.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly.

 

      24             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.

 

      25             Through the Chair, again, just -- the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           89

 

 

       1        concern is that a house gets built and, you

 

       2        know, from the end of the road as the residents

 

       3        drive into that area of the road -- and that's

 

       4        part of their neighborhood.  They walk their

 

       5        dogs and it's part of where they live, that --

 

       6        maintaining those lines of sight from the ends

 

       7        of the right-of-way are important, maintaining

 

       8        the visual access.  It's an amenity to that

 

       9        overall neighborhood.  So we view it in that

 

      10        context.  And it's really only 25 feet, which is

 

      11        essentially the closed right-of-way portion from

 

      12        1980.

 

      13             So if that is just left open and they don't

 

      14        construct a house in that closed 30-foot strip

 

      15        of right-of-way, then they're meeting that

 

      16        requirement.

 

      17             So we don't feel it's onerous on them to

 

      18        provide this, and we think it's within the

 

      19        public benefit.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      21             Anything further?

 

      22             Okay.  Thank you, Mister --

 

      23             MR. SMITH:  Is there any way that we might

 

      24        be able to compromise and make it a little

 

      25        smaller?  You'll still be able to see through

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           90

 

 

       1        the properties and see the marsh.  You know,

 

       2        you'll still be able to see plenty -- plenty of

 

       3        marsh by walking a dog down at the terminus of

 

       4        the road.  But, you know, there's not very much

 

       5        traffic there.  It's on a dead -- it's a

 

       6        dead-end off of a circle.  There's not many

 

       7        single-family dwellings in the area.  So there's

 

       8        not a whole lot -- it's not like a neighborhood,

 

       9        per se, like you're used to being in.  It's

 

      10        really a small -- a small area with not very

 

      11        many families at all.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilman Clark.

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  I mean, I have to agree with

 

      14        him on that one.  It's a tiny, tiny, little

 

      15        area, and darn near every single human being

 

      16        there is on the marsh.

 

      17             MR. SMITH:  Yes, sir.

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  So, I mean, I have to agree

 

      19        with him on that one.  So why don't we give to

 

      20        15 feet.  Can I make that amendment?

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  If we roll it into the --

 

      22             MR. CLARK:  I can make the amendment to

 

      23        give to 15 feet?

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.

 

      25             MR. CLARK:  Let's roll it all together with

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           91

 

 

       1        15 feet and approve it.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're still on the

 

       3        amendment.

 

       4             We can make that change, Mr. Kelly?

 

       5             MR. KELLY:  (Nods head.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

       7             MR. SMITH:  Thank you so much, Mr. Clark.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Smith.

 

       9             MR. SMITH:  Appreciate it.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're on the

 

      11        amendment, seconded, with the inclusion of the

 

      12        change.

 

      13             All in favor of the amendment signify by

 

      14        saying aye.

 

      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      17        approved the amendment.

 

      18             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  As amended.

 

      21             Okay.  Motion and second to grant the

 

      22        waiver as amended.

 

      23             Any discussion?

 

      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        ballot.

 

       2             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      10             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      12             By your action, you have approved --

 

      13             MR. SMITH:  Thank you very much.  God bless

 

      14        y'all.  Thank you.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Smith.  Have

 

      16        a good evening.

 

      17              2008-365, the waiver is granted.

 

      18             2008-366.  We'll open the public hearing.

 

      19             We have one speaker, Mattie Taylor.

 

      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, Ms. Taylor.

 

      22        If you'll come forward.

 

      23             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  State your name and address

 

      25        for the record.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           93

 

 

       1             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

       2             I'm Mattie Taylor, 5714 Sawyer Avenue.

 

       3             And I'm here concerning this amendment.  I

 

       4        don't have a problem with any church having a

 

       5        sign.  However, where the sign is now

 

       6        positioned, it's less than 30 feet from my front

 

       7        door, and it shines in my house.

 

       8             They have a tendency to leave it on.  I

 

       9        know they're looking to get a new sign, but

 

      10        where the sign is actually positioned needs to

 

      11        be repositioned.  It needs to be either put in

 

      12        front of their church and not on the side of the

 

      13        church.

 

      14             Our -- my lot sits adjacent to theirs.

 

      15        They're on the right -- the left-hand side of

 

      16        me.  And when they're there, it's fine.  They

 

      17        have a tendency -- they do turn it off.  But

 

      18        there have been occasions where it's been left

 

      19        on for a week, and I've tried calling and

 

      20        getting someone to turn it off.

 

      21             So I'm here asking the committee to see if

 

      22        they can, first, find another place to put their

 

      23        sign before it's granted.  And if the sign is

 

      24        granted, which I have no problem with, that they

 

      25        move it and put a timer on it so that it will go

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           94

 

 

       1        off in proper time.

 

       2             We have a very small neighborhood.  I've

 

       3        owned this lot for 46 years.  It's been family

 

       4        property.  I don't have any problems with

 

       5        churches in the area.  Most of us go into other

 

       6        areas to worship.  The only thing that I'm

 

       7        asking is when they come into our area, to

 

       8        respect us also.  We've lived there.  They come

 

       9        into the area.

 

      10             And it's been a lot of instances going on

 

      11        back and forth, which is neither here or there

 

      12        at the moment, but the sign is my biggest

 

      13        concern.  It hinders me from sleeping at night,

 

      14        and I'm a heart patient.  When the light is on,

 

      15        it's extremely bright.  It illuminates my whole

 

      16        front part of my house.

 

      17             So I'm just asking the committee to please

 

      18        reconsider this.  Maybe put some more planning

 

      19        into it and see if there are other options

 

      20        before this sign goes up.  Maybe putting it on

 

      21        the corner of Helena and Sawyer, or directly in

 

      22        front of their church.

 

      23             I thank you very much.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Taylor.

 

      25             Ms. Lee, do you have a question for

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           95

 

 

       1        Ms. Taylor?

 

       2             MS. LEE:  Yes.  This is in the district

 

       3        that I represent.

 

       4             And, Ms. Taylor --

 

       5             MS. TAYLOR:  Yes.

 

       6             MS. LEE:  -- I'm going to refer to the

 

       7        Planning Department.  We're going to work to try

 

       8        to make it where it will work for everybody.

 

       9             I'm asking --

 

      10             MS. TAYLOR:  Thank you.

 

      11             MS. LEE:  -- that it be deferred.

 

      12             And we all are diligent about trying to,

 

      13        number one, see if we can just work it out

 

      14        where --

 

      15             MS. TAYLOR:  Everybody is happy.

 

      16             MS. LEE:  -- everybody is happy.

 

      17             And I think -- I think we have a solution.

 

      18        I'll let either -- Mr. Folks has something to

 

      19        say.  He can -- you want to go down --

 

      20             MR. HUXFORD:  (Inaudible.)

 

      21             MS. LEE:  Excuse me?

 

      22             MR. HUXFORD:  (Inaudible.)

 

      23             MS. LEE:  Okay.  He'll meet you outside and

 

      24        share with you what we're planning to do.

 

      25             MS. TAYLOR:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           96

 

 

       1             MS. LEE:  I would request -- are you going

 

       2        to be chairman for the rest of the evening?

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, I don't think so,

 

       4        Ms. Lee.

 

       5             MS. LEE:  Oh, okay.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're just about to switch

 

       7        again.

 

       8             MS. LEE:  Okay.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  I will just mention that the

 

      10        public hearing will be continued, so no action

 

      11        on this bill tonight.

 

      12             MS. LEE:  Okay, then.  It has to be

 

      13        continued.  Okay.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, ma'am.

 

      15             MS. LEE:  I just -- we're going to work

 

      16        this out.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,

 

      18        Councilwoman Lee.

 

      19             And, as I mentioned, this public -- there's

 

      20        no further speakers, so the public hearing will

 

      21        be continued to the next LUZ meeting on

 

      22        July 15th.

 

      23             (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember

 

      25        Yarborough.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           97

 

 

       1             We are now on item 34, which begins a

 

       2        series of semiannual land use amendments.  Items

 

       3        34 through 46, actually, they're all the same

 

       4        type of amendments.

 

       5             To begin with item 34, 2008-390.

 

       6             We will open that public hearing.  We have

 

       7        a number of speakers -- four speaker cards.

 

       8             We have Paul Harden, Karl Sanders,

 

       9        Nancy Kilgo, and James Farley.

 

      10             (Mr. Sanders approaches the podium.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Sanders, good evening.

 

      12             MR. SANDERS:  Good evening, Mr. Chairman.

 

      13             Karl Sanders.  I'm here on behalf of the

 

      14        JEA.

 

      15             This is a land use amendment to allow for

 

      16        the development of the first power generating

 

      17        station since the Southside generating station

 

      18        was decommissioned in 2001.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  Excuse me.  I did not hear his

 

      20        position.

 

      21             Who is he, through the Chair?

 

      22             MR. SANDERS:  Through the Chair,

 

      23        Councilwoman Lee, my name is Karl Sanders.  I'm

 

      24        representing the applicant, JEA.

 

      25             MS. LEE:  Do you work for JEA?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           98

 

 

       1             MR. SANDERS:  No, ma'am, I do not.  I'm an

 

       2        attorney here in --

 

       3             MS. LEE:  Oh, okay.

 

       4             MR. SANDERS:  Yes, ma'am.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, Mr. Sanders.

 

       6             MR. SANDERS:  Mr. Chair, it's about

 

       7        160 acres, a hodgepodge of different land use

 

       8        classifications today.  We're -- and it's also

 

       9        located in an area that the City has identified

 

      10        as an industrial sanctuary.  We're requesting

 

      11        that all of the land use classifications be

 

      12        changed to PBF to allow for this.

 

      13             Staff has recommended approval.  The

 

      14        Industrial Technical Advisory Committee

 

      15        unanimously recommended approval.  The Planning

 

      16        Commission unanimously recommended approval.

 

      17        We're asking this committee for its support as

 

      18        well.

 

      19             I'll be available for any questions you may

 

      20        have on the land use amendment.

 

      21             Ms. Kilgo, with the JEA, is here this

 

      22        evening.  She's going to address you about the

 

      23        details of the project itself, give you an

 

      24        overview of that, and then we would like the

 

      25        opportunity to reserve -- have rebuttal time in

 

 

 

 

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       1        the event that that's necessary.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  Thank you.

 

       3             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Sanders, you're going to

 

       5        act as the agent on this for the rebuttal; is

 

       6        that correct?

 

       7             MR. SANDERS:  Yes.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       9             Nancy Kilgo.

 

      10             (Ms. Kilgo approaches the podium.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Nancy Kilgo will be followed

 

      12        by James Faley.

 

      13             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you.

 

      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.

 

      15             Nancy Kilgo, JEA, 21 West Church Street,

 

      16        Jacksonville 32202.

 

      17             I'm here to give a very brief overview of

 

      18        the project.  We'll be happy to answer any

 

      19        questions you might have.

 

      20             As Karl mentioned, this will be the first

 

      21        generation we've built in the southeast part of

 

      22        the city since we decommissioned the Southside

 

      23        generating station.

 

      24             We're having growth countywide, citywide,

 

      25        but the southeast portion of the city is one of

 

 

 

 

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       1        the highest growth areas.  It's also one of the

 

       2        highest demand areas of current megawatts, so we

 

       3        would like to have a plant there for

 

       4        reliability.  If we do not build the plant

 

       5        there, we will end up building -- purchasing

 

       6        additional transmission right-of-way and

 

       7        building additional transmission lines to serve

 

       8        that part of town.

 

       9             The plant we're proposing is one of the

 

      10        cleanest fossil fuel plants we can build, a

 

      11        natural gas fired power plant.  We're proposing

 

      12        first as a simple cycle combustion turbine.

 

      13        Later, we will come and try to do a conversion

 

      14        of that to be able to get additional megawatts

 

      15        for the same amount of fuel that we would burn.

 

      16             The site is proposed as just south of 9A,

 

      17        where it turns and crosses 95.  And it would be

 

      18        just west of the proposed 9B right-of-way, and

 

      19        just east of an existing electric transmission

 

      20        corridor.  The plant would feed into that

 

      21        existing electric transmission corridor.

 

      22             So I'll be available to answer questions or

 

      23        at the end.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Kilgo.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             Our next speaker is James Farley.

 

       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is James Farley.

 

       5        I'm at 5424 London Lake Drive.

 

       6             And I'm before you to express concern

 

       7        regarding the JEA proposal to the site.  This is

 

       8        due to -- over the past three years there have

 

       9        been significant development, looking at the

 

      10        St. Johns Town Center, making its way southward

 

      11        along the 9A -- 9A road.

 

      12             And this -- this development is --

 

      13        consisted of office parks, condominiums, shops,

 

      14        banks, medical offices, and a hotel.  This

 

      15        continues southward along the 9A corridor and in

 

      16        addition to the exits of Gate Parkway, Philips,

 

      17        and Baymeadows, and these developments are now

 

      18        within a three-mile radius of the proposed site

 

      19        for the Greenland Energy Center.

 

      20             And believe that the Greenland Energy

 

      21        Center will compose as -- will cause a

 

      22        significant stop in the construction or decrease

 

      23        in the construction or result in the decreasing

 

      24        commercial revenues for the City of Jacksonville

 

      25        as well.

 

 

 

 

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       1             And the question I'd like to propose to the

 

       2        council is, with the loss in proposed revenue

 

       3        due to the power plant, is that going to be

 

       4        worth the location along the 9A corridor or is

 

       5        the -- if it's this close to 9A -- the 9A

 

       6        corridor, is a resource that, you know, there's

 

       7        been considerable state investment in, and

 

       8        whether we're going to lose potential commercial

 

       9        development if the power is placed where it is.

 

      10             In regard to the scale of the turbine, once

 

      11        the phase two portion of the project is

 

      12        completed, the portion that recaptures heat from

 

      13        the exhaust, the structure will be close to

 

      14        190 feet, which, in comparison, is roughly the

 

      15        same height as the Omni Hotel downtown and the

 

      16        Mount Carmel Garden Apartments on University

 

      17        Boulevard.

 

      18             Even though the industrial sites in the

 

      19        area are not the same type of industry as the

 

      20        proposed Greenland Energy Center, it will most

 

      21        likely have a more dramatic effect on the

 

      22        commercial development in that area.

 

      23             And, in addition, even though it's a gas

 

      24        turbine, they reduce particulate emissions, but

 

      25        there are still significant amounts of other

 

 

 

 

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       1        emission.

 

       2             And in comparison to the Brandy Branch

 

       3        plant, which is, I assume, also a gas turbine,

 

       4        in that instance -- from looking at the

 

       5        information from the environmental agency, they

 

       6        did require an acid rain permit for the Brandy

 

       7        Branch permit as well, so there will still be

 

       8        significant emissions even if the particulate

 

       9        emissions are decreased.

 

      10             Thank you for the opportunity to speak

 

      11        before you.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      13             I see no further speakers.

 

      14             Mr. Sanders, do you have any rebuttal or --

 

      15             (Mr. Sanders approaches the podium.)

 

      16             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      17        Just a couple of things.

 

      18             I would submit that having access to an

 

      19        abundant supply of electricity would encourage

 

      20        commercial development, not discourage it.

 

      21             Secondly, this property is located in an

 

      22        area that the City has already designated as

 

      23        appropriate for industrial type uses, of which

 

      24        this is as well.  So that policy decision has,

 

      25        in fact, been made by this council.

 

 

 

 

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       1             If you have any details [sic] on the

 

       2        emissions or any of the technical aspects of

 

       3        this project, we have those people here to speak

 

       4        to the committee as well.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       6             Seeing no further speakers, we will close

 

       7        that public hearing.

 

       8             We'll go to Councilmember Webb.

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Thank you.

 

      10             We have before us this evening -- I guess a

 

      11        question for counsel, general counsel.  This is

 

      12        merely the land use.  This is not -- this is not

 

      13        the zoning?  This is not the PUD?

 

      14             MS. ELLER:  Correct.

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  So, again, when this comes back

 

      16        before us, after it takes its little sojourn to

 

      17        Tallahassee, I -- you know, I would ask some

 

      18        questions about appropriate buffers and things

 

      19        of that nature.

 

      20             But I will say that that's not before us

 

      21        this evening.  Again, we're only here to talk

 

      22        about the land use.

 

      23             I do support this.  I mean, again, it abuts

 

      24        this industrial site.  And this is not my

 

      25        district.  This is Councilman Graham's

 

 

 

 

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                                                           105

 

 

       1        district.  But, you know, for all intents and

 

       2        purposes, it's very, very close.

 

       3             And, again, I deem this project necessary.

 

       4        I think that with the appropriate buffers and

 

       5        appropriate modifications or concessions,

 

       6        conditions in any PUD, that this can work.

 

       7             So thank you.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember

 

       9        Webb.

 

      10             I'll take a motion on the bill to get us in

 

      11        the proper posture.

 

      12             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -390.

 

      15             Councilmember Yarborough.

 

      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      17             I echo Councilman Webb's support to it.

 

      18             I wanted to thank also Ms. Kilgo and the

 

      19        staff at JEA.  They invited us several months

 

      20        back to go out to Brandy Branch and take the

 

      21        tour out there, and I wanted to say thank you

 

      22        for that.  I learned a lot that day when we went

 

      23        out there and had an opportunity to talk to the

 

      24        staff and the hard-working folks out there.

 

      25             The other thing I learned also was that on

 

 

 

 

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       1        the east and south side of the river, we only

 

       2        have -- we only have one or -- this will be the

 

       3        first one.  This will be the first generating

 

       4        station.  So basically, if a storm or if a ship

 

       5        or something like that over there near the Dames

 

       6        Point terminal, if those lines were to get

 

       7        clipped, it's lights out on the east and south

 

       8        side of the river, and for us in Arlington all

 

       9        the way down to the county line in Mandarin.

 

      10             So -- and this is something that is needed

 

      11        there.  And, as Mr. Webb said, they've worked

 

      12        hard on this and I'm happy to support it too,

 

      13        and I appreciate the hard work they've done.

 

      14             And I think we also have the support of

 

      15        several of the surrounding property owners down

 

      16        there in the industrial part of that area as

 

      17        well.

 

      18             So I appreciate it.

 

      19             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      21             Seeing no other speakers on 2008-390, let's

 

      22        open the ballot and record the vote.

 

      23             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      24             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       8        approved 2008-390.

 

       9             Committee members, I'd like to go to

 

      10        page 20 for just a second.

 

      11             Item number 70, 2008-473.  This is a bill

 

      12        that Dylan Reingold is here to represent, and

 

      13        it's the only bill he has.  And he has a

 

      14        mediation all day tomorrow, so I want to try to

 

      15        go ahead and move that bill so he can get back

 

      16        to work on the mediation.

 

      17             So we'll open that public hearing.

 

      18             We're on page 20, top of the page, item 70,

 

      19        2008-473.

 

      20             I have a card for Susan Green.  I think I

 

      21        saw her step out.

 

      22             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, I think she had

 

      23        to leave, so I informed her of the amendments

 

      24        and spoke with Councilman Graham earlier on

 

      25        this, and he was in support of it as well.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm going to go ahead and

 

       2        close that public hearing.

 

       3             Can I have a motion on the amendment?

 

       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  So moved.

 

       5             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

       7        amendment to -473.

 

       8             Mr. Kelly, are you going to explain the

 

       9        amendment -- or do we need to explain it?

 

      10             Mr. Reingold can do it.

 

      11             MR. REINGOLD:  I got it.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      13             MR. REINGOLD:  The amendment essentially

 

      14        would remove the transferability language, and

 

      15        then it adds additional criteria for automated

 

      16        car washes.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Dylan, speak up a little

 

      18        bit.  We can barely hear you.

 

      19             MR. REINGOLD:  That's weird.  I don't think

 

      20        I've ever been told to speak up.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Can you switch your

 

      22        microphone?

 

      23             MR. REINGOLD:  Thank you.

 

      24             I think we got it.

 

      25             All right.  This bill would allow for car

 

 

 

 

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       1        washes in CN districts, and the amendment would

 

       2        remove the transferability language that was

 

       3        originally incorporated in the bill.

 

       4             Additionally, it would have several

 

       5        conditions for car washes pursuant to the

 

       6        performance standards and development criteria.

 

       7             I'd be happy to walk through those with the

 

       8        committee if you would like, but essentially

 

       9        there's six different, essentially, conditions

 

      10        they have to operate under, including hours of

 

      11        operation, buffers, and number of vacuum

 

      12        stations and the like.

 

      13             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair to -- if I

 

      14        could just clarify that this is going to be the

 

      15        subject of a zoning exception that will be heard

 

      16        before the Planning Commission.  This is not

 

      17        just permitted by right in CN.  They have to

 

      18        come before the Planning Commission and have a

 

      19        public hearing.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      21             Thank you, Mr. Reingold and Mr. Kelly.

 

      22             I don't see any questions, so all in favor

 

      23        of the amendment signal by saying aye.

 

      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.

 

       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on

 

       6        2008-473 as amended.

 

       7             Open the ballot and record the vote.

 

       8             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       9             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      15             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      17        approved 2008-473.

 

      18             Thank you, Mr. Reingold.  Appreciate it.

 

      19             We're are on item 35, 2008-391.

 

      20             We'll open that public hearing.

 

      21             We have Mr. Paul Harden.

 

      22             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.

 

      25             MR. HARDEN:  I'm sorry?

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  Thank you.

 

       3             Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.

 

       4             As you indicated, this is a land use map

 

       5        amendment transmittal application.  This site is

 

       6        located immediately behind the Winn-Dixie

 

       7        distribution center that you see along I-10 as

 

       8        you travel along there if you're heading away

 

       9        from town on the right, towards town on the

 

      10        left.  It's across Beaver Street, immediately

 

      11        adjoins it.  It's the site of the old Creeg

 

      12        (phonetic) dairy.  The dairy will continue to

 

      13        operate on most of the land, but this is a

 

      14        distribution center intended to take advantage

 

      15        of activity related to Cecil Field.  It's in the

 

      16        industrial sanctuary compatibility area.

 

      17             Other than that, I'll be happy to answer

 

      18        any questions.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

      20             I don't see any questions at this point.

 

      21             MS. LEE:  I have a question.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, let me go ahead --

 

      23             Go ahead and ask the question, Councilwoman

 

      24        Lee.

 

      25             MS. LEE:  Through the Chair to the Planning

 

 

 

 

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       1        Department, please.

 

       2             Mr. Crofts, can you identify for me what an

 

       3        industrial sanctuary is?

 

       4             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, ma'am.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Crofts, if I can

 

       6        interrupt you for a second.

 

       7             MS. LEE:  Well, let me ask it -- let me

 

       8        restate myself.

 

       9             It has been said that this area is an

 

      10        industrial sanctuary.  Is that a fact?

 

      11             MR. CROFTS:  That's correct.

 

      12             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

      13             MR. CROFTS:  That's it?

 

      14             MS. LEE:  Uh-huh.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no other

 

      16        speakers -- questions for the speaker, we'll

 

      17        close the public hearing.

 

      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -391.

 

      21             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      22        record the vote.

 

      23             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      24             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       4             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       6        approved 2008-391.

 

       7             Committee members, we're on the top of

 

       8        page 12, 2008-392.

 

       9             We'll open that public hearing.

 

      10             We have one speaker, Ms. Lynda Aycock.

 

      11             (Ms. Aycock approaches the podium.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      13             MS. AYCOCK:  Thank you.

 

      14             Lynda Aycock, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.

 

      15             This property is located at the proposed

 

      16        new intersection of I-295 and Collins Road.  The

 

      17        proposed development is to create a commercial

 

      18        center that will be compatible with the

 

      19        Southwest Vision Plan.  We have letters of

 

      20        support from the Argyle Area Civic Council and

 

      21        the Westside Business Leaders Association.

 

      22             The only other thing is, when we had the

 

      23        staff report at the Planning Commission, there

 

      24        was an error in it in that it said that this

 

      25        property owner also owned the property on the

 

 

 

 

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       1        other side of Collins Road.  That is not the

 

       2        case.  And I believe the report is being

 

       3        corrected.  It may have already been corrected,

 

       4        but I just do want to clarify that for the

 

       5        record.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

       7             MS. AYCOCK:  And I'll be happy to answer

 

       8        any questions.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Aycock.

 

      10             Seeing no questions, we'll close that

 

      11        public hearing.

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -392.

 

      15             Go to the Planning Department.  Had that --

 

      16        the ownership angle been cleared up?

 

      17             MR. CROFTS:  That is correct, sir.

 

      18             That is something that we've corrected in

 

      19        the report itself.

 

      20             Thank you.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you.

 

      22             Seeing no other discussion, open the ballot

 

      23        and record the vote.

 

      24             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  You just approved 2008-392.

 

       8             2008-393.  Open that public hearing.

 

       9             I bet you Ms. Lynda Aycock is here to speak

 

      10        on that bill as well.

 

      11             MS. AYCOCK:  That's a very good guess.

 

      12             Lynda Aycock, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.

 

      13             This property is also located at the

 

      14        intersection of I-295 and Collins Road.  The

 

      15        applicant also proposes to create a commercial

 

      16        center that will be compatible with the

 

      17        Southwest Vision Plan.

 

      18             This development also has the -- a letter

 

      19        of approval -- or support from the Argyle Area

 

      20        Civic Council and from the Westside Business

 

      21        Leaders Association.

 

      22             I'll be happy to answer any questions.

 

      23             Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you,

 

      25        Ms. Aycock.

 

 

 

 

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       1             And I just assume the Planning Department

 

       2        will take care of the ownership issue on this

 

       3        one as well.

 

       4             So we'll close that public hearing.

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on

 

       8        2008-393.

 

       9             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      10        record the vote.

 

      11             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      12             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you just

 

      20        approved 2008-393.

 

      21             Committee members, item 38, 2008-394.

 

      22             We'll open that public hearing.

 

      23             We have one speaker, Mr. Justin Hart.

 

      24             (Mr. Hart approaches the podium.)

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening again.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. HART:  Good evening.

 

       2             Justin Hart, 8051 Tara Lane.

 

       3             This particular project is bounded by heavy

 

       4        industrial to the east and the railroad tracks

 

       5        to the east, and light industrial to the south.

 

       6        To the west it is buffered with a big wetland,

 

       7        buffering a residential area.

 

       8             It lies within the industrial sanctuary of

 

       9        the industrial preservation map.  We have

 

      10        approval from the Industrial Technical Advisory

 

      11        Committee and Planning Department, and I would

 

      12        appreciate your approval on this matter.

 

      13             Here to answer any questions.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.

 

      15             I don't see any questions for the speaker,

 

      16        so we'll close that public hearing.

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.

 

      18             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second

 

      20        on the bill.

 

      21             I have a quick question for the Planning

 

      22        Department.  Mr. Hart just referenced the --

 

      23        having an industrial -- I forget the exact

 

      24        terminology to the group.

 

      25             I don't see that on this.  Are we typically

 

 

 

 

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                                                           118

 

 

       1        going to be putting that on these reports or

 

       2        should we, or should we not, or --

 

       3             MR. CROFTS:  This particular area is shown

 

       4        on the industrial preservation map, so it is

 

       5        within the sanctuary area.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

       7             MR. CROFTS:  So -- and wherever that

 

       8        occurs, we'd like to make that known, it does go

 

       9        before the Industrial Technical Advisory

 

      10        Committee for their particular recommendations

 

      11        to pass along to the Planning Commission and

 

      12        this body, City Council as well.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I guess my

 

      14        encouragement is to have them get the reports

 

      15        over to Legislative Services faster so we can

 

      16        make sure it's on the agenda when we bring it up

 

      17        in the future.

 

      18             So it's not something that has to be done

 

      19        today, but I appreciate the help in the future.

 

      20             So thank you.

 

      21             Seeing no other discussion, we'll open the

 

      22        ballot and record the vote.

 

      23             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      24             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       5             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       7        approved 2008-394.

 

       8             2008-395.  I'm just going to guess that

 

       9        Mr. Hart is here to discuss that bill.

 

      10             MR. HART:  Bingo.

 

      11             Justin Hart, 8051 Tara Lane.

 

      12             This particular project fronts on Duval

 

      13        Road.  It is bounded by BP, business park, land

 

      14        use designation to the north, to the west, and

 

      15        to the south.  To the east is residential land.

 

      16             I will be coming back with a PUD and

 

      17        buffering those residential lands that it

 

      18        fronts, and minimizing all -- all conflicts it

 

      19        may have with those residences.

 

      20             There is a pocket of residential land that

 

      21        is surrounded by industrial, and I just happen

 

      22        to front that pocket on one side.  I will be

 

      23        working with the neighbors and writing a PUD

 

      24        that should take care of any problems.

 

      25             It does lie within the industrial

 

 

 

 

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       1        sanctuary, and that actual pocket, whole pocket,

 

       2        lies within it.  One day -- maybe one day it

 

       3        will all be industrial.

 

       4             We do have approval from ITAC and the

 

       5        Planning Department, and I'm here to ask for

 

       6        your approval.

 

       7             And be glad to answer any questions you may

 

       8        have.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hart.

 

      10             Seeing no speakers, we'll close the public

 

      11        hearing and go to Councilwoman Lee.

 

      12             MS. LEE:  Through the Chair, good evening.

 

      13             MR. HART:  Yes, ma'am.

 

      14             MS. LEE:  Did you say Ribault Road?

 

      15             MR. HART:  No, no.  Duval Road.

 

      16             MS. LEE:  Okay.

 

      17             MR. HART:  I'm sorry.  I mumble a little

 

      18        bit.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  Okay.  That's why I was --

 

      20        because I know Ribault Road is in the area I

 

      21        represent.  I saw Duval.  So maybe I

 

      22        misunderstood.  Okay.

 

      23             MR. HART:  Yes, ma'am.  That's my fault.

 

      24             It's Duval Road, Councilman Holt's

 

      25        district.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Lee.

 

       3             We have an amendment on this bill.

 

       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the amendment.

 

       5             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

       7        amendment to -395.

 

       8             We'll have the Planning Department explain

 

       9        the amendment, please.

 

      10             MR. CROFTS:  The amendment in this

 

      11        particular case is basically a technical

 

      12        amendment in that it -- it revises the legal

 

      13        primarily and -- well, that is it.  The acreage

 

      14        is correct, the maps are correct, so no other

 

      15        changes are needed.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hart, do you agree with

 

      17        that amendment?

 

      18             MR. HART:  Yes, sir.

 

      19             That was my mistake.  I actually left out

 

      20        some property when I submitted the legal and to

 

      21        resubmit the legal.  However, all the maps and

 

      22        notices were correct.

 

      23             I agree.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't believe there's a

 

      25        mistake.  I think you just wanted to clarify it

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        further; is that correct?

 

       2             MR. HART:  That's right.

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hart.

 

       4             Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the

 

       5        amendment signal by saying aye.

 

       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.

 

      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      11             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -395

 

      13        as amended.

 

      14             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      15        record the vote.

 

      16             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      17             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      24             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      25             MR. HART:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've just

 

       2        approved 2008-395.

 

       3             Committee members, we're on the bottom of

 

       4        page 12, 2008-396.

 

       5             We will open that public hearing.

 

       6             We have one speaker, Mr. Paul Harden.

 

       7             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace

 

       9        Boulevard.

 

      10             This is, again, a land use map amendment.

 

      11        This site adjoins an existing multifamily

 

      12        development.  Under the intersection, it expands

 

      13        it, the size, but not the density of the unit.

 

      14        It will be the subject of a PUD which adjoins

 

      15        the other parcel.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

      17             Seeing no other speakers, we'll close that

 

      18        public hearing.

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      20             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on

 

      22        2008-396.

 

      23             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      24        record the vote.

 

      25             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've just

 

       9        approved 2008-396.

 

      10             Committee members, we're on top of page 13,

 

      11        2008-397.

 

      12             We will open that public hearing.

 

      13             We have one speaker, Mr. Howard Smith.

 

      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      17             I'm Howard Smith -- I'm the agent for the

 

      18        property owners -- 6101 Gazebo Park Place.

 

      19             This is a land use amendment changing the

 

      20        land use category to light industrial.  It's on

 

      21        Eastport Road.  It's in a transitioning light

 

      22        industrial area near the port, up from the port,

 

      23        and also near the intersection of Pulaski and

 

      24        9A.

 

      25             Staff has recommended approval of this.

 

 

 

 

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       1        It's been approved by ITAC and also Planning

 

       2        Commission, and we ask for your support

 

       3        tonight.

 

       4             And I'm available for any questions.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you very

 

       6        much.

 

       7             Seeing no other speakers, we'll close this

 

       8        public hearing.

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      10             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on

 

      12        2008-397.

 

      13             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      14        record the vote.

 

      15             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      16             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      23             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      25        approved 2008-397.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Committee members, we have now been going

 

       2        at it for an hour and 55 minutes, and our court

 

       3        reporter's hands, I'm sure, are tired, so we

 

       4        will take a recess before we get into the next

 

       5        bill because there's a number of speakers on

 

       6        that bill.

 

       7             So we will take a 15-minute recess and

 

       8        crank back up at 7:10 promptly.

 

       9             Thank you.

 

      10             (Brief recess.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Ladies and gentlemen,

 

      12        we'll go ahead and call the meeting back to

 

      13        order.  I appreciate your patience as we took a

 

      14        quick break there.

 

      15             Before we left, we finished item 41, so we

 

      16        are now on item 42, 2008-398.

 

      17             Let me tell you before we get started,

 

      18        there's something I said earlier I'll reiterate

 

      19        that there's a lot of -- I'm thinking a lot of

 

      20        passion.  I have a huge stack of speakers here,

 

      21        and I appreciate everyone's professionalism as

 

      22        we debate this.  I will demand that as chairman

 

      23        of this committee.  So I appreciate your

 

      24        cooperation with that.

 

      25             Having said that, we will open the public

 

 

 

 

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       1        hearing on 2008-398.  I have a number of

 

       2        speakers.  The first three are Paul Harden,

 

       3        Jimmie Green, and Mr. Troutman.

 

       4             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Due to the complex nature of

 

       6        this, I'm going to give a little leeway to

 

       7        Mr. Harden, and also I will probably --

 

       8             Mr. Birchfield, I believe you're

 

       9        representing the largest group here this

 

      10        evening, so I'll look for guidance from you who

 

      11        you would think would be the first speaker who

 

      12        would like some additional time on that.

 

      13             So, Mr. Harden, is eight minutes for you

 

      14        fine?

 

      15             MR. HARDEN:  That will be far sufficient.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

      17             MR. HARDEN:  I tried to coalesce down what

 

      18        I had to say.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace

 

      21        Boulevard.

 

      22             This is a vote tonight on whether or not to

 

      23        transmit a future land use map amendment to the

 

      24        Department of Community Affairs.  This amendment

 

      25        was presented to the Planning Department, the

 

 

 

 

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       1        Concurrency office, the District Councilperson

 

       2        more than six months ago.

 

       3             During that six-month period of time, we

 

       4        have continued to provide environmental studies,

 

       5        traffic reports, level of service calculations

 

       6        which support the project.

 

       7             MS. LEE:  Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.  Did you

 

       8        set a time certain?  Did I hear you say eight

 

       9        minutes?

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  I said eight minutes for

 

      11        Mr. Harden to present, and I was going to give

 

      12        the leader of the opposition eight minutes as

 

      13        well.

 

      14             MS. LEE:  Okay.  I didn't know if the

 

      15        committee voted.  Was that something -- is that

 

      16        a set time?

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  That's at the

 

      18        chairman's discretion.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  Okay.

 

      20             MR. HARDEN:  Have you got a -- Marilyn, is

 

      21        the clock on or --

 

      22             MS. ALLEN:  It is.  We stopped it.

 

      23             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.  I just can't see it

 

      24        there.

 

      25             As I said, we presented this application

 

 

 

 

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       1        over six months ago to all the parties

 

       2        involved.  And since then, we've continued to

 

       3        provide environmental studies, traffic studies,

 

       4        and level of service calculations to support the

 

       5        project.

 

       6             The request is to allow the construction of

 

       7        a distribution center at the intersection of

 

       8        295, at this location (indicating), and

 

       9        Lem Turner.  Lem Turner has been designated the

 

      10        primary north-south truck corridor for the port

 

      11        activity in a study that was commissioned by the

 

      12        MPO and Jax Port.  That study was called the

 

      13        North Jacksonville Marine Terminal Multi-Modal

 

      14        Impact Study.  And it indicated that Lem Turner,

 

      15        which is where our access is located, is the

 

      16        main corridor for that truck traffic.

 

      17             In a letter of support from the

 

      18        Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce, which you have

 

      19        before you, the Chamber of Commerce described

 

      20        the property as quote, "Extremely well-located

 

      21        for the industrial logistics and distribution

 

      22        projects that are needed to support Jax Port."

 

      23             The Planning Department has recommended

 

      24        approval of this project, and by a vote of seven

 

      25        to one last week the Planning Commission also

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        recommended approval.

 

       2             Now, I want to locate the site on the map

 

       3        for you.  It's within a 550-acre parcel located

 

       4        at 295 and Lem Turner.  To the north of us is

 

       5        land purchased by the Airport Authority to

 

       6        provide a corridor between their landing strips

 

       7        and development.  The airport landing area comes

 

       8        along here (indicating).  There's a noise

 

       9        attenuation zone here (indicating).  This is

 

      10        basically a crash zone for the airport.  They're

 

      11        in support of our project.

 

      12             To the south of us is a piece of land owned

 

      13        by Catsecus (phonetic) and Kern, who also

 

      14        support our project.

 

      15             To the east of us is the only residential

 

      16        district shown in this location that's affected

 

      17        by the project.  You have before you petitions

 

      18        signed by that neighborhood, which is along

 

      19        Newcomb and Hemlock, and you'll hear from them

 

      20        tonight.

 

      21             I want to show you the buffers that we've

 

      22        provided from residential locations on the map.

 

      23        And remember, a couple of weeks ago you were

 

      24        fighting about buffers on Alta Road.  We were

 

      25        trying to decide between 100 and 120 feet.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        We're 845 feet from the nearest residential

 

       2        location here (indicating).  We're 1,075 here

 

       3        (indicating).  We're 815 here (indicating).

 

       4        There's a neighborhood, Angel Lakes, which

 

       5        you're going to hear from tonight as well.

 

       6             We're 1,400 feet -- 1,464 feet from their

 

       7        nearest border, over 2,000 feet away from their

 

       8        nearest house at that location.

 

       9             You'll hear, as I said, from three groups

 

      10        tonight that really are -- have input.  One, the

 

      11        Angel Lakes folks are going to speak.  I think

 

      12        they're in opposition.

 

      13             But I point out to you, their use of 295 is

 

      14        at the next intersection up, a-mile-and-a-half

 

      15        away from the project, and then almost a mile

 

      16        further down the road.  So as the car drives,

 

      17        it's two-and-a-half miles.  As the crow flies,

 

      18        it's over 2,000 feet.

 

      19             The neighbors who are really affected are

 

      20        the neighbors who live along Hemlock and Newcomb

 

      21        Road.  The reason they're affected is the

 

      22        current access for the current zoning on this

 

      23        site comes right through their neighborhood.

 

      24             Our access is going to be constructed at

 

      25        this location (indicating).  It's a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        120-foot-wide boulevard access out to Lem Turner

 

       2        Road.

 

       3             We have committed not to have any access

 

       4        through Newcomb or Hemlock in the development.

 

       5        Currently, the access on the 1,700 townhomes and

 

       6        single-family homes on this development planned

 

       7        for this site comes straight down Hemlock, a

 

       8        20-foot-wide neighborhood road.

 

       9             The current zoning on the site allows for

 

      10        that 1,700 townhomes and residents and allows

 

      11        for 3,400 peak-hour trips a day down this

 

      12        20-foot road.

 

      13             Importantly, the setback for that 1,700

 

      14        homes, single-family subdivision, is 10 feet

 

      15        from the property line of the neighbors,

 

      16        including the commercial operation, Flamingo

 

      17        Park, RV Park.  Flamingo Park has provided us a

 

      18        term sheet.  They are in opposition to our

 

      19        project.

 

      20             They provided us a term sheet, which I

 

      21        noted they had e-mailed to some of the council

 

      22        members.  On that term sheet they ask for four

 

      23        things:

 

      24             One, no access down Newcomb Road.  We

 

      25        agreed to that.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           133

 

 

       1             Two, a 10- -- that we construct a 10-foot

 

       2        berm.  We agreed to that.

 

       3             Three, a 200-foot separation.  We

 

       4        redesigned and move back to 185 feet off there.

 

       5             And then, four, they wanted us to sell them

 

       6        a piece of property so they could move their

 

       7        illegal signs to a legal sign location.

 

       8             We believe our response to the request by

 

       9        the folks at Flamingo Lake is fair.  But more

 

      10        importantly, these are issues that need to be

 

      11        dealt with in a PUD.

 

      12             As you're aware, after the transmittal,

 

      13        this property will come back for a review -- if

 

      14        it's transmitted -- for an adoption and with a

 

      15        companion rezoning at the time.

 

      16             This is not your only bite at the apple.

 

      17        You'll be able to deal with the PUD and the

 

      18        other issues as they arise.

 

      19             Flamingo Lakes current request as of this

 

      20        morning -- not the term sheet that we agreed to

 

      21        initially, was a 22-foot-high visual barrier and

 

      22        exclusive use of 200 feet or about eight acres

 

      23        of our land, which we value at about

 

      24        $1.7 million.

 

      25             We complied with every request of their

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           134

 

 

       1        initial request.  We think that's reasonable.

 

       2        And, you know, we think that's a good way to

 

       3        deal with it.

 

       4             That being said, if this project comes back

 

       5        for approval with a PUD, we'll abide by whatever

 

       6        buffers that the Planning Department think are

 

       7        appropriate from us in the commercial use.

 

       8             Flamingo Lakes is a commercial operation, a

 

       9        for-rent RV park which is located along 295.

 

      10        One of their borders is 295.  Currently, they

 

      11        have backing up to them in the zoning project

 

      12        45-foot-high townhomes that required a 10-foot

 

      13        buffer.

 

      14             At our location, they have two units -- you

 

      15        can see it on the map -- two units located along

 

      16        that location.  So now we are providing a

 

      17        185-foot setback and a 10-foot-high berm as

 

      18        opposed to 10 feet and 40 foot -- 45-foot

 

      19        townhomes.

 

      20             I'm truly sorry to be in the position I am

 

      21        with the district councilperson.  It's very

 

      22        uncomfortable for me, but I don't want to

 

      23        minimize the positive nature of this project.

 

      24        It's at the intersection of two major roadways

 

      25        in the Northside of the City of Jacksonville,

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           135

 

 

       1        295 and Lem Turner.

 

       2             The access fronts on Lem Turner, which has

 

       3        been designated by the MPO as the major

 

       4        north-south truck corridor for port activity.

 

       5        We have between 900 and 2,000 feet of buffer

 

       6        from any residential use.  Nearly every one of

 

       7        the affected neighbors -- that's the neighbors

 

       8        on Newcomb and Hemlock -- are in support of our

 

       9        project.  The project is supported by the

 

      10        Chamber of Commerce and the City's authorities

 

      11        which are dealing with the lands in the area,

 

      12        including the port traffic.

 

      13             The Planning Department and the Planning

 

      14        Commission have given their approval.  The city

 

      15        of Jacksonville is in great need of distribution

 

      16        facilities.  I guess you read last week that the

 

      17        Mitsui -- yeah, the Mitsui project will be

 

      18        having deliveries beginning July 1, which is in

 

      19        about three weeks, so it's important that we

 

      20        provide the distribution space to meet those

 

      21        needs, and this is at a location that meets

 

      22        those needs.

 

      23             I would respectfully request that you

 

      24        transmit this project to the Department of

 

      25        Community Affairs for their review.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           136

 

 

       1             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

       3             As I organize the cards, we have a number

 

       4        in support and a number opposed.  I think to

 

       5        make it easier to follow, we'll go through the

 

       6        cards of support and then turn to the opposition

 

       7        and let them present their side.

 

       8             So our next speaker will be Genson Robt

 

       9        [sic] -- I'm not sure --

 

      10             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- and followed by

 

      12        C.W. Sellers, followed by Eva Fowler.

 

      13             And any of the speakers that just want to

 

      14        indicate their support or opposition, they're

 

      15        welcome to do that as well, and I'll read it

 

      16        into the record.

 

      17             So good evening, sir.

 

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, sir.

 

      19             My name is Robert Genson, and I've lived at

 

      20        12500 Lem Turner Road since 1962.

 

      21             And this here warehousing seems to have

 

      22        less impact on our land than housing, so I'm --

 

      23        I like the idea, but I didn't know that Lem

 

      24        Turner Road was designated a truck route for the

 

      25        airport.  Now, when did that come about?  They

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           137

 

 

       1        didn't announce that one to me, but I don't take

 

       2        the newspaper.

 

       3             You don't know?

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't know the answer to

 

       5        that question.

 

       6             MR. GENSON:  We'll forget that then.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       8             MR. GENSON:  Thank you.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  C.W. Sellers, followed by

 

      10        Eva Fowler, followed by Elizabeth O'Neal.

 

      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is C.W. Sellers.

 

      13        I live at 3815 Newcomb Road, and I do support

 

      14        this project.

 

      15             Thank you.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      17             Eva Fowler, followed by Elizabeth O'Neal,

 

      18        followed by Kathleen Plymel.

 

      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.

 

      22             Eva Fowler.  I live at 3838 Hemlock

 

      23        Street.

 

      24             And as a property owner on Hemlock Street,

 

      25        I support this amendment.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           138

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       2             Elizabeth O'Neal, followed by Kathleen --

 

       3             And, Kathleen, I can't pronounce your last

 

       4        name, so I apologize.

 

       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Elizabeth O'Neal.  I live

 

       7        at 3843 Hemlock Street.

 

       8             I've lived there all of my life, and I am

 

       9        also in support of this amendment.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      11             Kathleen followed, by Claudia Combs,

 

      12        followed by John Combs.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      15             Kathleen Plymel.  I live at 3827 Hemlock

 

      16        Street.

 

      17             I'm here today in support of this

 

      18        proposal.  Earlier ideas for the use and growth

 

      19        within our community have seriously impacted the

 

      20        pleasure of life, particularly with traffic

 

      21        within our neighborhood, so we are trying to

 

      22        look for the best way to grow.  And we feel that

 

      23        this is the best way.

 

      24             We have a good neighbor -- possibly a good

 

      25        neighbor coming in that's going to cause minimal

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        disruption to the traffic and the activity of

 

       2        our environment.

 

       3             And we thank you for your support.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       5             Claudia Combs, followed by John Combs,

 

       6        followed by Robin Miness.

 

       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Claudia Combs, and I

 

      10        live at 3751 Hemlock Street.

 

      11             My parents lived there a lot longer than I

 

      12        have, but I love the quietness of the

 

      13        neighborhood.  I love to be able to go for a

 

      14        walk in the evening, ride my bicycle, take my

 

      15        grandson with me.  I am in favor of this

 

      16        project.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      18             John Combs, followed by Robin Miness,

 

      19        followed by Al Miness.

 

      20             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, sir.

 

      22             My name is John Combs.  I live at --

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Get a little bit closer to

 

      24        that microphone.

 

      25             MR. COMBS:  I'm sorry.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             I live at 3751 Hemlock.

 

       2             Most of us are longtime residents.  We've

 

       3        owned property out there for in excess of

 

       4        20 years, all of us.

 

       5             You know, developments come and, you know,

 

       6        we just -- we're trying -- like our other

 

       7        neighbor said, we're trying to grow, but we're

 

       8        trying to keep a little piece of our

 

       9        neighborhood like it is.  And even though really

 

      10        our land runs so far back in there that this new

 

      11        road is going to be at our back of our property,

 

      12        you know, we're kind of looking at the less --

 

      13        excuse me -- the lesser of two evils on this

 

      14        thing.

 

      15             And, you know, for our neighborhood, you

 

      16        know, we just thought this was the best thing.

 

      17        And I'm sure that the campground doesn't agree

 

      18        with us.  But, you know, we're kind of looking

 

      19        out for our neighborhood.

 

      20             Thank you for your time.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      22             Robin Miness, followed by Al Miness.

 

      23             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Am I getting close on the

 

      25        last name?

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Miness (pronouncing).

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Miness.

 

       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Robin Miness.

 

       4        I live at 3636 Hemlock Street.

 

       5             I live on the road, my mother-in-law lives

 

       6        on the road, and my sister-in-law lives on the

 

       7        road.  We've lived at our property for 23 years,

 

       8        and we have two young daughters.

 

       9             Our neighborhood is safe, it's quiet.  Our

 

      10        children can go and play in the front yard.

 

      11        They don't have to worry about traffic, they

 

      12        don't have to worry about someone bothering

 

      13        them.

 

      14             Having a residential community at the end

 

      15        of our road with 3,400 cars coming twice a day

 

      16        is not a good alternative for our neighborhood

 

      17        or our children or our families.

 

      18             Having this light industrial at the end of

 

      19        our road will cut off access to our road,

 

      20        Newcomb Road, Angel Lakes.  It will cut off any

 

      21        access going through residential neighborhoods,

 

      22        and that is a key problem for our road, Hemlock

 

      23        Street.

 

      24             And I support this project 100 percent and

 

      25        hope that you'll support us in it.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             Thank you.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       3             Al Miness, followed by Minnie Howell,

 

       4        followed by Michael Hunt.

 

       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

       8             I'm Al Miness, 3636 Hemlock Street.

 

       9             I've lived there for 23 years, and I

 

      10        support this project.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      12             Minnie Howell, followed by Michael Hunt.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      16             My name is Minnie Howell.  I live at 3707

 

      17        Newcomb Road.  I've been there since 1958.

 

      18             I hardily support this proposal.  I do not

 

      19        understand why my neighbors, Flamingo Lake,

 

      20        would oppose it.  First of all, I'm a landowner,

 

      21        I'm a taxpayer, and I believe landowners,

 

      22        taxpayers should be the people that are

 

      23        influencing your decision.

 

      24             I understand the campers support Mr. Fisher

 

      25        because he provides a nice campground, but they

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        should have no say in what's going to affect us

 

       2        for the rest of our lives.

 

       3             And I do hope that you will support this

 

       4        proposal.  I don't understand why they're upset

 

       5        because they are also my neighbor -- they're

 

       6        directly across from me.  They are also my

 

       7        neighbor on my right side and they're not

 

       8        particular about a berm there.  They're not

 

       9        particular about throwing garbage over my

 

      10        fence.  They're not particular about cutting

 

      11        trees down on my fence, and this has happened.

 

      12             Now, in the recent past, it has not been

 

      13        that way.  And I think there was one person that

 

      14        influenced that, but nonetheless, we support

 

      15        this proposal.  My neighbor Michael Hall also

 

      16        supports this proposal.  And give it a lot of

 

      17        consideration because the camp people are going

 

      18        to come and go.  I'm going to be there, Lord

 

      19        willing, another 50 years.

 

      20             Thank you.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      22             Michael Hunt, followed by Bill Birchfield.

 

      23             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening,

 

      25        Councilmembers.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           144

 

 

       1             My name is Michael Hunt.  I live at 12855

 

       2        Lem Turner Road.  My wife and I have been there

 

       3        since about 2002.

 

       4             We live basically right across from where

 

       5        the 120-foot road will come out to Lem Turner.

 

       6        We purchased the property with the idea that on

 

       7        a state highway would be development.  We've

 

       8        seen Joyce Development Group purchase property

 

       9        behind us and beside us and south of us, and the

 

      10        property that is south of us is actually five

 

      11        acres.  It's about 500 foot of road frontage on

 

      12        Lem Turner, and we've seen that be rezoned and

 

      13        the use reappointed.

 

      14             I certainly appreciate my neighbors drawing

 

      15        your attention to the fact that we are property

 

      16        owners and we're taxpayers.  We live there.

 

      17        It's our neighborhood.

 

      18             And I can assure you that the Flamingo

 

      19        trailer park folks would not appreciate me going

 

      20        into their neighborhood where they live, where

 

      21        their houses are, and try to influence zoning or

 

      22        land use in that area.  I don't appreciate it

 

      23        here.

 

      24             And as a taxpayer, I expect that you

 

      25        understand that already, but I think it's

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        appropriate to make the observation.

 

       2             We do support the development and we want

 

       3        you to do the same.  And we think it's a proper

 

       4        use for that area, and we enjoy the fact that

 

       5        Jacksonville is growing and appreciate the work

 

       6        that you do in overseeing that.

 

       7             Thank you very much.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       9             The next speaker I have is Bill Birchfield.

 

      10             Mr. Birchfield, as I indicated to

 

      11        Mr. Harden when it began, and if he's

 

      12        representing the agent in this, I'm thinking --

 

      13        I think you represent the largest percentage of

 

      14        the people, so I'm going to give you some leeway

 

      15        on your time, or if you have a better

 

      16        explanation, I'll be welcome to listen to it.

 

      17             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  I'd like to ask this be

 

      18        handed out to the members.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  Excuse me.  I have a question.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilmember Lee.

 

      21             MS. LEE:  Yes.  There are other speakers in

 

      22        the audience.  They will have an opportunity to

 

      23        speak; is that correct?

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure will.  Just like the

 

      25        people in favor of it.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             While Mr. Birchfield is coming up, the

 

       2        first five speakers I have is Bill Birchfield,

 

       3        Robert Little, Michael Fisher -- actually

 

       4        Michael Medill Fisher, and Michael Watson

 

       5        Fisher, and then Bobby Cornwell.

 

       6             (Mr. Birchfield approaches the podium.)

 

       7             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  Mr. Chairman and members,

 

       8        my name is Bill Birchfield, and I have an office

 

       9        over in San Marco, it's 1031 LaSalle Street.

 

      10             I'm here tonight on behalf of Flamingo Lake

 

      11        RV Park in opposition to this land use

 

      12        amendment.  And I am not in opposition to the

 

      13        folks that live on Hemlock or Newcomb.  In fact,

 

      14        we can relate very well to how they feel about

 

      15        this.

 

      16             And let me explain to you our face in the

 

      17        group picture.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Birchfield, when you

 

      19        speak, speak a little -- either pull the

 

      20        microphone up a little bit or speak a little

 

      21        louder for me, please.

 

      22             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  I used to could speak

 

      23        louder, but I guess I better pull the mic up.

 

      24        Excuse me.  I apologize.

 

      25             The first time that Flamingo Lake learned

 

 

 

 

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       1        about this project, it involved a receipt of a

 

       2        site plan that was submitted to the Corps of

 

       3        Engineers.  Now, it's been doctored up a little

 

       4        bit.  This ain't the site plan that went to the

 

       5        Corps because this is color and highlighted, the

 

       6        boundary of the building, to make a point.

 

       7             The initial positioning of the warehouse

 

       8        closest to Flamingo Lake is startling.  That

 

       9        picture in the little book I've handed out, I

 

      10        think it's on the --

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  Page 5.

 

      12             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  So that was -- that was

 

      13        actually better to open, those of you who play

 

      14        poker.

 

      15             Then Mr. Harden has passed out the map that

 

      16        I would have passed out if he hadn't passed it

 

      17        out first.

 

      18             Looking at our face, again, in the group

 

      19        picture, as he points out, Hemlock has got over

 

      20        800 feet buffer, Newcomb has got over 800 feet

 

      21        of buffer, and Flamingo Lake has got a jammed up

 

      22        and jelly tight -- the way this thing is put in

 

      23        there.

 

      24             So what -- what that does to us is to work

 

      25        on the quality of life for the people who visit

 

 

 

 

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       1        our park.  Mr. Harden's solution to that is to

 

       2        back up 185 feet to the edge of the first

 

       3        building.

 

       4             Now, I do not know whether we're going to

 

       5        have one of these beautiful colored photographed

 

       6        buildings or whether we're going to have a

 

       7        public storage building on steroids, but here's

 

       8        what we tried to put together to make the point

 

       9        (indicating), and I concede it is very much

 

      10        exaggerated.

 

      11             This picture immediately to my right is the

 

      12        picture from the western end of the park, across

 

      13        some trees --

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Birchfield, is your hand

 

      15        on the mute button on that microphone?  Don't

 

      16        put your hand on the bottom of the microphone.

 

      17             There you go.

 

      18             MR. BIRCHFIELD:  I'm going to learn.

 

      19             Then to get an idea of what this could do

 

      20        to us, we asked for one of these people -- for

 

      21        the secret photograph shop stuff, to superimpose

 

      22        a 35-foot warehouse on the property line.  I

 

      23        concede that's not going to happen, but I also

 

      24        would suggest to you that it makes a point.  And

 

      25        how far -- even with paislies on it, that's not

 

 

 

 

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       1        going to look very attractive.

 

       2             The other problem with Mr. Harden's

 

       3        solution, as we see it, is that there will be

 

       4        activity between the building and the berm which

 

       5        will be very noisy.  He suggests putting the

 

       6        berm along our property line and then using the

 

       7        remainder of the 185 feet, part truck, hook

 

       8        wagons, trailers, and this, that and the other.

 

       9             So what is our solution?  Our solution is

 

      10        on one of the pages in that book.  But basically

 

      11        it's this:  We would like to have a 200-foot

 

      12        vegetative buffer.

 

      13             And all of this is not vegetative

 

      14        (indicating).  The northern part of that little

 

      15        strip is vacant.  We'd like to ask the owner to

 

      16        let us go out there and plant vegetation in that

 

      17        area and maintain it.  We'd like to ask the

 

      18        owner to build a wall or berm with a wall on it

 

      19        on the other side of 200-foot buffer to protect

 

      20        us from the noise.

 

      21             Mr. Harden talks about the cost of this,

 

      22        and when you get it down -- even the Bible says

 

      23        money is the basis for most of the things that

 

      24        we do evil.  I don't think it's necessarily evil

 

      25        to want to make money.  But what's happening

 

 

 

 

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       1        here, these people are the victim of a fall in a

 

       2        residential market.  Only three years ago you

 

       3        rezoned this to a residence, and then the

 

       4        residential boll weevil come along and -- eating

 

       5        your cotton crop.

 

       6             He's a residential crop.  And what do you

 

       7        do?  You call financial 911 and you solve the

 

       8        problem by changing it to light industrial

 

       9        because the port authorities and the airport

 

      10        folks are promising us that we'll have lots of

 

      11        boxes to haul.

 

      12             What that does economically is change land

 

      13        that's $45,000 an acre in good times to land

 

      14        that's worth $125,000 an acre, or swing for this

 

      15        particular site of about $20 million to almost

 

      16        $60 million.  There's plenty of money there to

 

      17        solve this problem.  It's 5,400,000 square feet

 

      18        of residential property -- well, not

 

      19        residential -- of warehouse property.

 

      20             We estimate that the cost of the berm with

 

      21        a wall is a little bit over half a million

 

      22        dollars.  That would raise the price of

 

      23        warehouse space one -- not $1.00 because that

 

      24        would be a lot of money, but 10 cents a square

 

      25        foot would get you $540,000.

 

 

 

 

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                                                           151

 

 

       1             So it's affordable and it's equable because

 

       2        you have that kind of buffer when our neighbors

 

       3        to the north enjoy 815 feet and 845 feet.

 

       4             And, in fairness, we would urge you to

 

       5        eliminate the easterly corner of this thing from

 

       6        the land use amendment, or at least impose upon

 

       7        the developer a condition to provide us with a

 

       8        buffer.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Birchfield.

 

      10             Our next speaker will be Robert Little.

 

      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is it Robert or Robolt?

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Robert.

 

      14             My name is Robert Little.  I'm at 14942

 

      15        Reef Drive in Jacksonville.

 

      16             I am also a taxpayer and citizen in

 

      17        Jacksonville.  I moved here from West Palm Beach

 

      18        two years ago because I saw Flamingo Lake for

 

      19        the first time doing some consultation and fell

 

      20        in love with the property.  It's a great asset

 

      21        for Jacksonville.  It's a great asset for

 

      22        Florida.

 

      23             I'm the vice president and general manager

 

      24        of Flamingo Lake and I'm also the vice

 

      25        chairperson for the Florida-Alabama Association

 

 

 

 

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       1        of RV Parks and Campgrounds, to which Bobby

 

       2        Cornwell is here.  He's our executive director.

 

       3             I moved my family here, like I said.  I

 

       4        love Jacksonville.  I moved.  I bought a house

 

       5        on the Northside, different side of the city,

 

       6        but nonetheless there.

 

       7             We belong to many different associations

 

       8        and we have memberships and affiliations

 

       9        throughout the country.  We're known throughout

 

      10        the world.  Best Parks in America, we're one of

 

      11        22 parks in the country with the Best Parks

 

      12        affiliation.  There's a letter in there from

 

      13        Best Parks stating how detrimental this is for

 

      14        our business.

 

      15             There's also a letter from Visit Florida,

 

      16        who is the leading tourism agency in the state.

 

      17        Boy Scouts of America, who also comes to us.

 

      18        We've spent over $420,000 in capital

 

      19        improvements last year alone on the property.

 

      20        We anticipate a million dollar addition in the

 

      21        near future for paving, tree planting,

 

      22        beautification and other issues.

 

      23             We're the number one destination RV resort

 

      24        in northeast Florida.  We serve approximately

 

      25        12,000 visitors a year for an average of a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        three-day stay with an economic impact of

 

       2        approximately $5.4 million.

 

       3             Varied day uses for the neighborhood.  Our

 

       4        pool, our lake and events.  We have the

 

       5        Bluegrass Association there this weekend, which

 

       6        is thousands of members strong, which sees our

 

       7        park versus Suwannee, which is where they used

 

       8        to go, and see a wonderful situation for them to

 

       9        have their activities at our resort.

 

      10             We spend over $25,000 a year in advertising

 

      11        annually promoting Jacksonville as a

 

      12        destination.

 

      13             I hear comments of the trailer park, of

 

      14        they're temporary people.  RVs by nature are

 

      15        temporary housing for people, real people that

 

      16        come here for real reasons, to Mayo Clinic for

 

      17        treatment, whether it's working with

 

      18        construction in the area, building new

 

      19        facilities, or whatever.  That's where real

 

      20        people are choosing -- a beautiful park -- to

 

      21        stay.

 

      22             There are noise issues we are severely

 

      23        concerned about, one of them being -- yeah, it's

 

      24        an industrial area.  We're not adverse to, you

 

      25        know, growth in the area.  However, just backup

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        alarms alone, which is required by OSHA for

 

       2        trucks, forklifts, any material handling, it's

 

       3        from 87 to 102 decibels.  I have materials to

 

       4        back the fact of those numbers in here.  That

 

       5        equates to a train whistle at 500 at 90

 

       6        decibels.  You've going to hear that constantly

 

       7        day in and day out.  RVs are outdoor

 

       8        recreational.  These people spend 85 percent of

 

       9        their time outside their RVs.  They go inside to

 

      10        sleep.

 

      11             So I don't know what everybody else in the

 

      12        area is aware of, but you will hear that in your

 

      13        residential areas just as well.  Please look at

 

      14        the facts.

 

      15             In closing, it would be nice if we could

 

      16        solve this matter today and either put an end to

 

      17        this or get concessions from our developer.

 

      18             I appreciate it.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      20             Michael Medill Fisher, followed by Michael

 

      21        Watson Fisher.

 

      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      24             I'm Michael Fisher.  I live at 1602 Parrish

 

      25        Place in Jacksonville, Florida.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             I apologize.  I don't have my green

 

       2        opposition sticker, but I am wearing the

 

       3        official opposition suit.  As you can see, Bill

 

       4        and I are coordinated here.

 

       5             I don't want to be -- well, let me first

 

       6        submit the 60 signatures that I got on

 

       7        Fathers Day while my wife and daughter were at

 

       8        Sea World.  I'd much rather been there with them

 

       9        rather than collecting these 60 signatures in

 

      10        opposition, and quite a few of them are on

 

      11        Hemlock.

 

      12             In an effort not to be redundant, I'm just

 

      13        going to tell you a little bit about my

 

      14        experience as an owner at Flamingo Lake RV

 

      15        Resort and just briefly tell you about it.

 

      16             My family and Raymond Lane and his son

 

      17        Kenny Lane created Flamingo Lake in the late

 

      18        '80s.  And I remember my father waking me at

 

      19        around 6:00 a.m. every morning during the

 

      20        summers to go out there and float a weed eater

 

      21        to help keep the park beautiful for $10.00 a

 

      22        day.  I did that for three summers.  And I

 

      23        didn't like Flamingo Lake too much back then,

 

      24        but I'm crazy about it now because I've watched

 

      25        my sweat help create from 46 sites to

 

 

 

 

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       1        285 sites.  That means we bring almost 13,000

 

       2        people to Jacksonville a year.  And I have a

 

       3        feeling, a sneaking suspicious that these people

 

       4        are not here because of our warehousing

 

       5        capacity.

 

       6             No, I believe that they're here because

 

       7        they recognize our RV resort to be the number

 

       8        one RV resort in North Florida and one of the

 

       9        most famous in the nation.  And this is right

 

      10        here in your backyard, folks.

 

      11             I believe that the pleasant ambience that

 

      12        we create and maintain has earned us national

 

      13        recognition and will continue to do so.

 

      14             Now, I want to conclude by telling you

 

      15        about my experience as -- working at a warehouse

 

      16        during my junior and senior years at Lee High

 

      17        School.  I worked at a warehouse on Ramona.  It

 

      18        was Westside Industrial Park.  If you're

 

      19        familiar with the area, you know it's a fraction

 

      20        of the size of this development here.  And I can

 

      21        tell you that every day I showed up at work at

 

      22        that facility, I would have to wear earplugs

 

      23        because of the volume of the equipment that used

 

      24        there, and that type of activity will be

 

      25        seriously detrimental to our park and the

 

 

 

 

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       1        ambience that we provide.

 

       2             We have the only certified swimming lake in

 

       3        North Florida.  The only -- I'm sorry -- in

 

       4        Duval County.  Let's keep that around.  Any of

 

       5        y'all like to fish?  I know my last name is

 

       6        Fisher.  I can't do it very well, but you can

 

       7        catch a 16-pound bass out of that river or that

 

       8        lake.  We've never had a gas engine touch that

 

       9        lake in the 20-some-odd years we've owned it.

 

      10             I want to thank you for your time, I

 

      11        appreciate it, and look forward to hearing some

 

      12        of my other compatriots.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      14             Michael Fisher, followed by Bobby Cornwell,

 

      15        followed by Jimmie Green.

 

      16             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Michael

 

      19        Fisher, and I appreciate my son giving me an

 

      20        introduction.

 

      21             I live at 3521 Hedrick Street in

 

      22        Jacksonville, Florida.

 

      23             And I am an attorney, but as Paul Harden

 

      24        can tell you, I'm a novice at this.  And the

 

      25        only reason I'm up here is because my family

 

 

 

 

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       1        owns an interest in Flamingo Lake RV Resort,

 

       2        Inc.

 

       3             I appreciate very much y'all giving me the

 

       4        time to talk to you about this enterprise which

 

       5        was a dream of ours 18 years ago.  Mr. Lane and

 

       6        I saw this pristine lake, 17 acres.  It was

 

       7        right there on 295 and Lem Turner, and our

 

       8        vision was we could turn this into the finest RV

 

       9        facility in North Florida.  And over 20 years,

 

      10        we've had many problems, but we've been able to

 

      11        accomplish that.

 

      12             Just one example of the quality of our

 

      13        park:  We have two large springs that are in the

 

      14        spring itself, but we've also, on top, have two

 

      15        pumps that spray water 50 feet.  Those were put

 

      16        in at an expense of over $100,000.  And to keep

 

      17        this lake pure, we spend over $1,000 a month

 

      18        just to -- on electricity.

 

      19             Now, I'm not here to tell you all the

 

      20        wonderful things that we have at Flamingo Lake.

 

      21        But on the 4th of July, it will be brimming full

 

      22        with families, retirees, and people that want to

 

      23        come and have a good time.

 

      24             Now, if we have these warehouses behind us,

 

      25        even at 185 feet, with the noise that we've

 

 

 

 

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       1        heard they can generate, it's not going to be

 

       2        the same experience.

 

       3             I think it was telling at our last

 

       4        committee hearing that we had many votes against

 

       5        us, but the one vote that was for us was Marc

 

       6        Hardesty.  And guess what?  He's an RVer.  He

 

       7        understands that industrial and having next to

 

       8        it an RV park doesn't work.

 

       9             Now, I'll take just a few minutes, if I

 

      10        could.  Mr. Corrigan, can I have the balance of

 

      11        the time that you talked about that you were

 

      12        going to allocate to Mr. Bill Birchfield?

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  Mr. Birchfield took the

 

      14        full eight minutes that Mr. Harden had.

 

      15             MR. FISHER:  Well, then I'd just like you

 

      16        to look one -- just one quick minute.

 

      17             Has everybody got a copy of this book?

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Uh-huh.

 

      19             MR. FISHER:  All right.  You need to look

 

      20        first.  You see our outline with the way it is

 

      21        now.  You'll see what -- on page 2, a picture of

 

      22        where the -- where the warehouses will be.

 

      23        You'll see on number 3, you'll see an outline of

 

      24        the current land use, and you'll see it set back

 

      25        815 feet and 775 feet that Mr. Harden has

 

 

 

 

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       1        generously given all the residents, and you'll

 

       2        see that he's given us none.

 

       3             Now, if you will look next -- I'm sorry I

 

       4        have to go so quickly, but look on page -- if

 

       5        you will look on page 7, and you will see --

 

       6             May I have one minute?  Mr. Corrigan, may I

 

       7        have one minute?

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Just a few seconds.  Try to

 

       9        wrap it up, please.

 

      10             MR. FISHER:  Okay.  If you'll look there,

 

      11        there on the next page, you'll see what

 

      12        Mr. Harden has offered us.  He's going to cut

 

      13        down all the trees.

 

      14             If you'll look on the front, you'll see the

 

      15        first picture we have has all the trees that are

 

      16        behind our park.  We're going to have to cut

 

      17        them all down and put a 12-foot berm or he says

 

      18        a 10-foot berm.  And then right behind that is

 

      19        not the -- he's right.  It's not the warehouse,

 

      20        but it's going to be paving.  It's going to be

 

      21        where all those 18-wheelers are going to be.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Fisher, your time is up.

 

      23             MR. FISHER:  All right.  I'll just show you

 

      24        the last -- here is our proposal.  What it shows

 

      25        is we keep that berm, that 200-foot berm.  And

 

 

 

 

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       1        then next to it, we have a 200-foot natural

 

       2        vegetative state.  And we'll plant it, we'll

 

       3        keep it right.  And then next we'll have the

 

       4        berm that Mr. Harden has generously offered us,

 

       5        to put a wall on it.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you.

 

       7             MR. FISHER:  Thank you very much for your

 

       8        consideration.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Our next speaker is

 

      10        Bobby Cornwell, followed by Jimmie Green.

 

      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  All right.  Thank you.

 

      14        I'll be quick.

 

      15             I'm Bobby Cornwell, 1340 Vickers Road,

 

      16        Tallahassee, Florida.

 

      17             I'm the president and CEO of the Florida

 

      18        Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds.  I'm

 

      19        also on the board of directors of Visit Florida,

 

      20        and I'm chairman of the Welcoming Centers to

 

      21        Visit -- serves as a committee of Visit Florida.

 

      22             I'm kind of wearing two hats tonight.

 

      23        Speaking, one, on the benefits of tourism, not

 

      24        only to the state but to your city, and also on

 

      25        camping.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           162

 

 

       1             Flamingo Lake is one of the top campgrounds

 

       2        in the state of Florida.  I don't know if you

 

       3        realize that.  The city of Jacksonville realizes

 

       4        what an asset they are to the city, but they

 

       5        are.

 

       6             Camping brings in over $6 million to

 

       7        Florida every year in tourism.  Over

 

       8        84.5 million visitors visited the state last

 

       9        year, and about 6.7 of those were campers, not

 

      10        including all the hundreds of thousands of

 

      11        residents that camp within the state of Florida.

 

      12             Flamingo Lake offers facilities of the

 

      13        amenities that campers expect and need, not only

 

      14        in the city but throughout the nation.  We -- in

 

      15        our office, we have calls come in daily from

 

      16        across the country of people wondering where to

 

      17        camp in Florida, and we tell them Jacksonville

 

      18        is a great place to go.  And when they go to

 

      19        Jacksonville, they need to go to Flamingo Lake.

 

      20             We have not had one that hasn't been

 

      21        extremely satisfied with the park.  It is a

 

      22        beautiful park and it needs to stay that way.

 

      23             And I just hope that you-all take into

 

      24        consideration what this type of business could

 

      25        do to the facility of Flamingo Lake.  I've seen

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           163

 

 

       1        hundreds of campgrounds all around the nation,

 

       2        and whenever this type of warehouse or

 

       3        industrial facility goes up near a park, it does

 

       4        make the park decline significantly.  Pretty

 

       5        soon residents -- not residents -- campers will

 

       6        not come, rates may lower, and that brings in

 

       7        the clientele that you don't want.

 

       8             Right now you've got a very respectful,

 

       9        nice park, that brings in top-notch campers,

 

      10        active families, people with money that spend a

 

      11        lot of money in not only Duval County, but

 

      12        around the state.

 

      13             We estimate that over $500 are spent on a

 

      14        three-day camping trip.  And this park is filled

 

      15        basically year-round, so it is generating

 

      16        millions and millions of dollars for

 

      17        Jacksonville, and we just hope you take that

 

      18        into consideration.

 

      19             And I think it's to the benefit of not only

 

      20        the city but also for the residents here because

 

      21        it proves a tremendous asset that they need and

 

      22        want, and hopefully it will continue to be able

 

      23        to have for years to come.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           164

 

 

       1             Our next speaker is Jimmie Green, followed

 

       2        by Mr. Troutman.

 

       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

       6             My name is Jimmie Green.  I live at 12351

 

       7        V.C. Johnson Road.

 

       8             I rise with the perception that I'm not as

 

       9        important as some of the others.  And I don't

 

      10        need to clarify, but I have two things that I

 

      11        need to clarify.

 

      12             One -- the first thing is to Mr. Harden,

 

      13        that I can eliminate and bring some closure to

 

      14        his thoughts.  We are in opposition of his

 

      15        warehouse project.

 

      16             Number two is, I am a resident of

 

      17        Jacksonville, Florida, and a taxpayer.  Okay.

 

      18        Matter of fact -- and that's the thing that I'm

 

      19        not proud of.  I'm not pleased with -- last year

 

      20        I paid $6,999 in real estate taxes.  I'm not

 

      21        pleased with that, but I bought my property in

 

      22        hopes that I was going to a residential area.

 

      23             I was told that the area that I had moved

 

      24        in was residential, but now I'm finding out that

 

      25        some committee has changed that to allow

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           165

 

 

       1        warehousing to come in.

 

       2             First of all, now, I am really in a

 

       3        situation because my quality of life has been

 

       4        changed.  Some folks say it will change if the

 

       5        warehouse come.  It has already been changed.

 

       6        I'm already concerned about this issue.  I'm

 

       7        already not sleeping about this issue.

 

       8             Matter of fact, I'm here tonight, which I

 

       9        would not have been, and simply because of the

 

      10        issue.

 

      11             I'm asking you-all to consider -- you know,

 

      12        I heard what all of us have said tonight, but

 

      13        I'm hoping that you will consider not approving

 

      14        the project at all.

 

      15             I'm not concerned about the berms, I'm not

 

      16        concerned about the barriers.  I'm concerned

 

      17        about residential.  That's what I paid for, and

 

      18        that's in hopes of what I'm going to be able to

 

      19        live with.

 

      20             Now, how will that affect me?  I think

 

      21        someone feel that it may not affect us because

 

      22        we're in Angel Lake.  Well, I beg to differ.

 

      23             First of all, I know how noisy it is also

 

      24        to be in a warehouse.  I know what goes on in a

 

      25        warehouse.  I know the trucks, I know the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           166

 

 

       1        forklifts and all of these things.  Now -- and

 

       2        also what comes with that is people.  And it's

 

       3        good that the other people want the trucks

 

       4        rather than the cars.  I prefer cars.  Just my

 

       5        preference.

 

       6             But I also prefer folk that -- of quality.

 

       7        Now, what will the warehouse have?  I don't

 

       8        know, but I heard on the other meeting that

 

       9        there are approximately 5,000 employees planned

 

      10        for that warehouse.  Now, what are they going to

 

      11        be like?  What are they going to do when they

 

      12        get there?  Those are the things that I need an

 

      13        answer for.

 

      14             But I would love to see my property

 

      15        increase in value other than decrease in value,

 

      16        and I'm thinking now that there's a great

 

      17        possibility that my property will decrease in

 

      18        value.  And if that is not true, then I need

 

      19        someone to please help me understand that.

 

      20             Okay.  I appreciate y'all allowing us the

 

      21        opportunity to speak.

 

      22             Thank you.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      24             That was Mr. Green.  Mr. Troutman, followed

 

      25        by Carmen Spates.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           167

 

 

       1             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

       3             My name is Kelvin Troutman.  I live at

 

       4        12319 V.C. Johnson Road.

 

       5             I'm here tonight to discuss this matter

 

       6        about the warehouse.  In the last meeting we

 

       7        had, the lawyer said that the Northside was

 

       8        targeted for warehouse.  Well, if you approve

 

       9        this, this area, this one warehouse -- and I

 

      10        don't know if the other neighbors know that

 

      11        they're going to put more warehouses along the

 

      12        area that we live in.

 

      13             All right.  So just like this illustration

 

      14        of the warehouse -- well, I live on the other

 

      15        side of that.  All right.  That -- I'll see that

 

      16        big, old warehouse, and I don't have no trees.

 

      17             And I don't know if any of you've been in

 

      18        woods or a wooded area before where you can yell

 

      19        and scream and it echoes, because just like my

 

      20        neighbors have cookouts, I can hear kids and I

 

      21        can be in my backyard, it's just like they're

 

      22        next door to me.  Just imagine what it will be

 

      23        like when they have forklifts, trucks running,

 

      24        5,000 people working and coming.  It's going to

 

      25        be noisy.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           168

 

 

       1             Not only that, this area where we're living

 

       2        at, it was -- it was a cow pasture.  Well, we've

 

       3        got four other areas were cow pastures.

 

       4             So when you pull this, what are you going

 

       5        to do?  Put more warehouses in the other four

 

       6        areas where we be surrounded by all warehouses.

 

       7        And what about our quality of life?

 

       8             I don't know about Hickem [sic], the other

 

       9        areas, but it's going to affect us, it's going

 

      10        to affect everyone that lives on the Northside.

 

      11             If you continue to approve one, what about

 

      12        the next one that's going to come?  You already

 

      13        said that Lem Turner is the corridor for the

 

      14        port.  So what are residents supposed to do?

 

      15        Just move out and leave the area, the quality of

 

      16        life?

 

      17             I just want that take into consideration

 

      18        that it's very nice to live in a wooded area and

 

      19        not to have to deal with it.  I could probably

 

      20        deal with the fact of residential, more

 

      21        townhouses of some nature.

 

      22             But to be in your backyard or be home

 

      23        listening, and to hear forklifts, beep, beep,

 

      24        beep all night long, what about that?

 

      25             Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       2             Next speaker is Carmen Spates, followed by

 

       3        John Scott.

 

       4             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

       7             My name is Carmen Spates, and I reside at

 

       8        12390 V.C. Johnson Road.

 

       9             And I'd like to thank the council for

 

      10        allowing me the opportunity to speak today about

 

      11        this ordinance.

 

      12             I am also president of the Angel Lakes

 

      13        Homeowners Association, and there are a couple

 

      14        of reasons why we are not in support of this

 

      15        ordinance.  One of the reasons is, you know,

 

      16        there's the potential threat of our property

 

      17        values decreasing.

 

      18             The other reason is that -- I want to take

 

      19        a few minutes to use this chart, if I could.

 

      20             Mr. Harden has stated that Angel Lakes

 

      21        would not be impacted by this.  And in some form

 

      22        or fashion that may be true, but there's another

 

      23        piece to this puzzle.

 

      24             There's a property -- there's property

 

      25        that's located on Angel Lakes Drive that is

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           170

 

 

       1        currently up for sale.  That property was owned

 

       2        by Kenneth Coleman.

 

       3             Another one of our concerns is what's the

 

       4        likelihood -- sorry.  What's the likelihood of

 

       5        that property being sold to a developer who's

 

       6        interested in light industrial?

 

       7             So with that being said, that would put us

 

       8        at a risk of having noise, that would put us at

 

       9        a risk of 24/7 traffic, and that would also put

 

      10        us at a risk of using Angel Lakes Drive and also

 

      11        V.C. Johnson Road as the access point.

 

      12             I'd also like to go on record as saying

 

      13        that -- you know, don't get us wrong.  We do

 

      14        support growth for Jacksonville and we do

 

      15        recognize that there is a need for industrial in

 

      16        some form or fashion.  We just simply prefer

 

      17        that industrial is in an area that is zoned for

 

      18        industrial and not with the -- a proposal to

 

      19        rezone residential property.

 

      20             In my closing statement, I would like to

 

      21        turn in -- we did receive petition signatures

 

      22        from residents that live in Angel Lakes.  And

 

      23        the total count we got was 35, and I'd like to

 

      24        turn that in to our district councilperson.  If

 

      25        I may.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.  Councilwoman Lee.

 

       2             MS. LEE:  We can put it in the record and

 

       3        I'll get a copy.

 

       4             MS. SPATES:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       6             John Scott, followed by Benny Moore.

 

       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening to the

 

      10        council.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Pull that microphone up.

 

      12        Bend it on up there.  There you go.

 

      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Oh, okay.

 

      14             Good evening to the council.

 

      15             My name is John Scott.  I live at 12327

 

      16        V.C. Johnson Road.

 

      17             My concerns this evening is the warehouse.

 

      18        I've been at 12327 V.C. Johnson Road for the

 

      19        last six years.

 

      20             Now, I just want to ask each councilman

 

      21        sitting here tonight -- for six years it's been

 

      22        residential.  Put yourself in my shoes.

 

      23        Tomorrow in your neighborhood they say a

 

      24        warehouse is coming up.  How would you feel?  I

 

      25        don't think you would feel happy about that.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           172

 

 

       1             I just ask you to search your heart tonight

 

       2        and think very hard and long about the residents

 

       3        of Angel Lakes.

 

       4             And thank you.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       6             Benny Moore, followed by -- I think it's

 

       7        Meta Parkinson.

 

       8             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      11             My name is Benny Moore, Sr., and I live at

 

      12        12555 Angel Lake Drive.

 

      13             And to the chairperson and other members of

 

      14        the council, I'm going to talk about my water

 

      15        table.  I am concerned that if you have a light

 

      16        industrial warehousing, you're going to have

 

      17        some trucks taking some stuff that may be

 

      18        contaminants.

 

      19             We're all on well water.  And if something

 

      20        seeps into the ground, it gets into our well

 

      21        water.  And as we know -- and I don't want to

 

      22        bring up other areas other than the fact that

 

      23        Hipps Road is one that you think -- come to

 

      24        mind.  People start having cancer out there.

 

      25        I'm concerned about the health issue that might

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           173

 

 

       1        come from this situation, for an accident may

 

       2        come from this light industrial warehousing

 

       3        usage.

 

       4             My other thing is, as everyone else has

 

       5        stated, the property value has my concern.  I

 

       6        bought a house in an area which is a pretty

 

       7        upscale area as far as I'm concerned, and it was

 

       8        aesthetically pleasing.  There was nature all

 

       9        around.  Do you realize this past spring there

 

      10        was two geese that laid eggs in my backyard, and

 

      11        the little geeseling -- or gosling, or however

 

      12        you pronounce it, they are now walking around in

 

      13        my yard.  There was a fox, there were deers.

 

      14        Can you imagine the noise from this light

 

      15        industrial warehousing causing these animals to

 

      16        disappear?  Even from the fact that the housing

 

      17        is being built, our deers have gone away.  But

 

      18        at least we have that.  And we'd like to keep

 

      19        that nature part of it.

 

      20             I oppose vehemently this light industrial

 

      21        warehousing because it will impact my quality of

 

      22        life and the quality of life of everyone in that

 

      23        area.  We will no longer see that skunk, we will

 

      24        no longer see those geese, and the ducks will be

 

      25        gone.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           174

 

 

       1             So vote against this.  We don't need it.

 

       2             The Northside is growing by leaps and

 

       3        bounds.  We don't need to be a light industrial

 

       4        warehousing district.  And believe it or not,

 

       5        that noise is going to be with you all the time,

 

       6        not just during the 3,400 hours he quoted us of

 

       7        being -- moving back and forth.

 

       8             So I implore you and ask you to support us

 

       9        in opposition of this particular project.

 

      10             Thank you.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      12             Meta Parkinson, followed by Chris Burkhart.

 

      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Meta

 

      17        Parkinson.  I live at 4547 Merson Lane in Murray

 

      18        Hill in Jacksonville.

 

      19             I come to speak against this rezoning as a

 

      20        resident of Jacksonville who enjoys RVing.  My

 

      21        husband and I love to go to Flamingo Lake.  As

 

      22        we have gone to many RV resorts all over the

 

      23        country, we find that the quality of their

 

      24        amenities and their attention to detail, and

 

      25        also the closeness to our home, given the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           175

 

 

       1        current gas prices -- it doesn't cost us $400 to

 

       2        get somewhere to camp.

 

       3             The light industrial encroachment on this

 

       4        property would be detrimental to the overall

 

       5        atmosphere of this resort.  It lies close to

 

       6        295.  But when you camp at Flamingo Lake, you

 

       7        can hear some of the trucks, but not many.

 

       8             I am concerned with the idea of Lem Turner

 

       9        being a corridor for the port.  And if the

 

      10        people who have spoken for this keep speaking of

 

      11        how quiet their neighborhoods are and how

 

      12        peaceful everything is there --

 

      13             I live close to Roosevelt, near Campus

 

      14        where the trains and the trucks go by every

 

      15        day.  And from my house, which is almost

 

      16        200 yards from Roosevelt, those trucks and their

 

      17        brakes and what have you can wake you up out of

 

      18        a sound sleep.  So I think that Lem Turner will

 

      19        be in for a grand surprise when all the trucks

 

      20        that will support this large number of

 

      21        warehouses will be going up and down their

 

      22        road.

 

      23             The Northside is a beautiful area.  It has

 

      24        experienced phenomenal growth in the past.  And

 

      25        over near the airport there are tremendous

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        amounts of light industrial areas, and I think

 

       2        you could choose a better place.

 

       3             Thank you.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       5             Chris Burkhart is our final speaker.

 

       6             (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.

 

       8             My name is Chris Burkhart.  I live at 11367

 

       9        Scenic Point Circle.

 

      10             My neighborhood is not on the -- any of

 

      11        these maps that they're showing, but it is -- it

 

      12        is going to be affected.  I don't know why they

 

      13        wouldn't show it.

 

      14             A map I saw that doesn't have -- it's

 

      15        proposed road.  I live down in here

 

      16        (indicating), in a neighborhood that's right off

 

      17        of Dunn, and one of the proposed roads to get

 

      18        into this park for the employees -- not for the

 

      19        trucks, but the employees -- goes right up my

 

      20        street.

 

      21             We just bought just less than a year ago.

 

      22        Most everybody in the neighborhood hasn't been

 

      23        there that long.  The neighborhood is not that

 

      24        old.  But when we bought, we bought into a

 

      25        residential neighborhood.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           177

 

 

       1             We bought knowing that we're going to have

 

       2        more houses in the area and more -- it's

 

       3        growing, but we didn't buy into a commercial

 

       4        lot.  We didn't buy into commercial traffic.  We

 

       5        didn't buy into traffic that's going to be going

 

       6        in all hours of the night because industrial

 

       7        traffic -- industrial zones like that don't shut

 

       8        down at 5 o'clock when everybody else does.

 

       9        They're going nonstop, 24/7.

 

      10             A lot of kids in the neighborhood.  I swear

 

      11        there's more kids every week.  You look down the

 

      12        street and -- somebody else that you never saw

 

      13        before.

 

      14             So anyway, I just want you to think about

 

      15        that.  There's just a lot of people that didn't

 

      16        buy into an industrial neighborhood.  Please

 

      17        keep that in mind.  And we definitely oppose

 

      18        this.

 

      19             Thank you.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      21             I see no further speakers, so we'll go

 

      22        ahead and close that public hearing.

 

      23             Councilmember Webb --

 

      24             MR. HARDEN:  Don't I get my rebuttal?

 

      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  Mr. Harden does

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           178

 

 

       1        have a right for some rebuttal.  I'm sorry.

 

       2             Let me finish with the public hearing and

 

       3        then we'll go to questions.

 

       4             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  You can call a speaker back

 

       6        up, that would be fine, but we'll go ahead and

 

       7        finish the public hearing.

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  Let me start with Mr. Burkhart.

 

       9             The road that you saw, Mr. Burkhart, is

 

      10        off --

 

      11             MS. LEE:  Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.  Help me

 

      12        here.  I wanted to ask the last speaker a

 

      13        question.  And usually if a member of the body

 

      14        has a question of a speaker, usually they're

 

      15        allowed to ask that question.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Typically, we finish the

 

      17        public hearing and then we bring up speakers.

 

      18             I have questions for some of the speakers

 

      19        too.  I'm just going to wait until we hear all

 

      20        the evidence because my question may get

 

      21        answered by other speakers.  So I want to wait

 

      22        until the end and then come back and ask

 

      23        questions of the speakers.

 

      24             MR. HARDEN:  The road Mr. Burkhart

 

      25        referenced is not in our subdivision.  It's in

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        the existing single-family subdivision.  Our

 

       2        only access is the one that's shown on 120-foot

 

       3        boulevard location, and it's cut off with this

 

       4        proposal.

 

       5             Let me address first the comments of the

 

       6        Flamingo Park.  The two issues they've raised

 

       7        are the noise and the buffer.  Their RV park is

 

       8        about 75 feet away from I-295.  The right-of-way

 

       9        for 295 touches their parcel of land.

 

      10             Right now there's about 120,000 trips that

 

      11        go along that location, according to our count.

 

      12        I cannot imagine that an industrial park set off

 

      13        twice as far away with a 10-foot berm in the

 

      14        middle -- in between, is going to cause less --

 

      15        or more noise than that current situation.

 

      16             We don't want to shut down Angel -- I

 

      17        mean -- excuse me.  We don't want to shut down

 

      18        Flamingo Lake.  We want to be fair to a

 

      19        commercial operation at that location.  But in

 

      20        fairness, it isn't backed up currently to Hanna

 

      21        Park.  It isn't backed up to the Blue Ridge

 

      22        Mountains.  It's next to I-295.  And that's

 

      23        where they chose to be, and that's because they

 

      24        want the traffic coming off there.

 

      25             But don't fool yourself.  This isn't a

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        peaceful location.  It's next to a major

 

       2        interstate that travels along the way.

 

       3             Now, also the current zoning backed up to

 

       4        them -- use the picture Mr. Birchfield used.

 

       5        The current zoning allows 10 feet away townhomes

 

       6        45 feet in the air.  Now, is that more of an

 

       7        intrusion or a 40-foot building set back

 

       8        185 feet with a 10-foot berm in the way?

 

       9             So the fact of the matter is they're not

 

      10        suggesting the reality of the situation.

 

      11        They're next to an interstate now, there's a lot

 

      12        of noise at that location.  They currently have

 

      13        next door to them, zoned 10 feet away, a 45-foot

 

      14        townhome.  And we're going to improve the

 

      15        situation by moving back 185 feet.

 

      16             Again, the fact of the matter is those are

 

      17        issues that will be brought up when we deal with

 

      18        the planned unit development on the site.

 

      19             I redesigned it using what their original

 

      20        proposal was, trying to comply as much as

 

      21        possible.  Shutting off access to Newcomb Road,

 

      22        shutting off -- moving back -- putting in the

 

      23        10-foot berm and moving back 185 feet.

 

      24             So I wish you'd remember what the zoning is

 

      25        they have behind them now and what the other

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        conditions are at the site.

 

       2             Now, the other folks who spoke or live in

 

       3        the Angel Lakes subdivision --

 

       4             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)

 

       5             MR. HARDEN:  To the nearest property line

 

       6        of Angel Lakes is 1,464 feet.  To the nearest

 

       7        house is another 600 feet.  They're 2,000 feet

 

       8        away as the crow flies.  But remember, their

 

       9        subdivision doesn't access on Lem Turner Road

 

      10        like all these folks are going to be affected.

 

      11             So the question is, do you pay attention to

 

      12        the folks who are severely affected by 3,400

 

      13        trips a day coming down Hemlock or someone who

 

      14        has access a mile and a half away as you drive a

 

      15        vehicle and offset by over 2,000 feet?

 

      16             In all due respect, that subdivision is not

 

      17        going to be affected by the activity that's

 

      18        almost a quarter of a mile away as the crow

 

      19        flies.

 

      20             Shame on Mr. Green to talk about the people

 

      21        who are going to work in these warehouses.

 

      22        These are 60-, 70-, $80,000 a year jobs.  It is

 

      23        a target industry for the City of Jacksonville.

 

      24        They're trying to bring good jobs here.  And I

 

      25        don't know -- I don't know what the suggestion

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        is, that they won't be folks of quality, or what

 

       2        the people who work there -- in the warehouses

 

       3        are going to be.

 

       4             But the fact of the matter is these are

 

       5        targeted jobs for the City of Jacksonville and

 

       6        high paying jobs, the type of jobs that the port

 

       7        is trying to be there -- bring there.

 

       8             We would respectfully request that you

 

       9        listen to the folks who are affected.  We are

 

      10        willing to do whatever the Planning Department

 

      11        says we should do to buffer off the other

 

      12        commercial activity in the corner.

 

      13             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.

 

      15             Seeing no further speakers, the public

 

      16        hearing is closed.

 

      17             Mr. Webb, you're first in the queue, but

 

      18        it's in Ms. Lee's district.

 

      19             MR. WEBB:  (Inaudible.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Ms. Lee.

 

      21             MS. LEE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      22             Mr. Chairman, first of all, let me -- I

 

      23        have a couple -- well, first of all, I am moving

 

      24        for deferral of this item.  And the reason,

 

      25        Mr. Chairman -- I have many reasons why I'm

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        seeking the deferral.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that a formal motion,

 

       3        Ms. Lee?  Are you moving to defer?

 

       4             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, let me first say to

 

       5        you, Mr. Chairman, I probably need to -- I don't

 

       6        know if anybody heard, but I came over to your

 

       7        chair earlier.  And I guess I should --

 

       8        certainly it wasn't personal.  I asked if you

 

       9        would consider deferring it for me, and you

 

      10        stated that you wouldn't.  And I understand.

 

      11        And I asked you why, and you said because you

 

      12        didn't want to.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  My answer was it's part

 

      14        of a series and I wanted to move forward with

 

      15        the series.

 

      16             MS. LEE:  But that's not a requirement,

 

      17        though.

 

      18             But, Mr. Chairman, if I could just take a

 

      19        minute.  Let me -- let me -- let me say this:

 

      20        There was a gentleman who said something that

 

      21        was so true in the speaker's comments earlier --

 

      22             I'm going to start off by saying this is my

 

      23        district.  I do represent the area.  And I'm

 

      24        going to try to be as brief as possible.  I know

 

      25        that you have something to do, and I've made

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        notes to try to stay on the issue.

 

       2             The gentleman earlier -- I think his name

 

       3        was Mr. Hunt.  He made a point.  He said that he

 

       4        did not think that the people at Flamingo Lakes

 

       5        should say anything about this because they

 

       6        didn't live here.

 

       7             Well, let me say this.  As the district

 

       8        councilperson, I feel that I have been terribly

 

       9        disrespected by Mr. Harden, who totally

 

      10        circumvented me and had a barbecue on Hemlock

 

      11        Road and did not invite me as the district

 

      12        councilperson.

 

      13             And I have been elected by the people.  Not

 

      14        appointed, not hired, but I was elected.  And I

 

      15        would say this to all of my constituents,

 

      16        whether you like Denise Lee or not, there are

 

      17        principles that should be applied to everything,

 

      18        whether you're for this or whether you're

 

      19        against it.  There's certain principles that I

 

      20        believe -- because today it might be this issue,

 

      21        but it could be something in your neighborhood

 

      22        that could affect you for the rest of your

 

      23        life.

 

      24             So I would just say, always make sure that

 

      25        if there's an elected person, at least have the

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           185

 

 

       1        courtesy to try and contact them and speak with

 

       2        them, whether you are for them or not.

 

       3             I would never, ever, ever circumvent an

 

       4        elected person if I were a constituent because

 

       5        somebody decided that they wanted to host a

 

       6        barbecue and not even give the district

 

       7        councilperson the courtesy of calling the office

 

       8        to see if my schedule met where I could come out

 

       9        as well.  And invite the Planning Department out

 

      10        so that if the constituents had questions.  It's

 

      11        not a matter of whether you support it or oppose

 

      12        it, it's just to allow the facts to be given.

 

      13        That's all.

 

      14             So I wanted to go on record also -- and

 

      15        Mr. Chairman, we need to clear this up so I can

 

      16        move on.

 

      17             Now, I have -- I have sat here and I have

 

      18        said to myself, Denise, remember, this is

 

      19        political, that you are a part of a political

 

      20        body, and you don't make this personal.  But

 

      21        when comments are made, that people are

 

      22        referenced as something for the opposing team --

 

      23        I resent it when Mr. Harden referred to the

 

      24        people as trailer trash.  And he and I got in an

 

      25        argument about it, but I didn't go on record

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           186

 

 

       1        before.  So that --

 

       2             Let's just remember, even swap, even

 

       3        swindle.  We shouldn't be calling anybody

 

       4        names.  Everybody is somebody.  Everybody

 

       5        deserves a quality of life.

 

       6             So I just want to make sure, whoever

 

       7        comments in the future, that we stick to the

 

       8        issue and we not refer to people and make this

 

       9        personal.

 

      10             Now, the reason that I am opposing this --

 

      11        not opposing it, but asking for the deferral is

 

      12        quite simple.  Mr. Harden stated that six months

 

      13        ago he met with me.  That is not true.

 

      14             Mr. Harden, maybe three months ago, came to

 

      15        me and asked me if I would support an

 

      16        application that he was putting in, and there

 

      17        was not much to it.  And I said to him, "Paul,

 

      18        tell me about it."  He said, "It's really

 

      19        nothing.  I really don't need to talk to you."

 

      20        And I said "Well, okay."

 

      21             Paul does a lot of zonings.  I had no

 

      22        reason to think that there was anything to it.

 

      23        Then I started getting calls from people on

 

      24        Percy Road because there was this sign over

 

      25        there and they thought I was the district

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        councilperson.  I don't know.

 

       2             Then I started getting calls.  And I called

 

       3        Mr. Harden and said, "Paul, I need to talk to

 

       4        you."  I said, "I'm getting calls and people are

 

       5        upset.  And I thought what you told me, it would

 

       6        be okay."

 

       7             I guess I should have done a little more

 

       8        homework.  I didn't know that 315 acres were

 

       9        going to be turned into warehouses.  I did not

 

      10        know that 5,000 to 8,000 cars would be going

 

      11        down a road on a daily basis.

 

      12             So I asked Paul Harden to meet with me, and

 

      13        we went and we rode the property.  And I shared

 

      14        with Mr. Harden at that particular time, "Hold

 

      15        it.  This train needs to stop."  And the reason

 

      16        I said to Mr. Harden it needed to stop -- if you

 

      17        look at this map right here, you all --

 

      18             And I know that it's been said, and I said

 

      19        it to the Planning Commission, it was no need

 

      20        for me to come because Mr. Harden had the

 

      21        votes.  And I was also told that there was no

 

      22        need for me to attempt to even talk to this

 

      23        committee.

 

      24             Well, we're all political and I understand

 

      25        the business and I understand lobbying, but I'm

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           188

 

 

       1        still here.

 

       2             If you look at this, there's another

 

       3        application, and it's one below.  It's item 44.

 

       4        It's the Thomas Creek development.  And my

 

       5        concern -- I called Mr. Sean Kelly and I asked

 

       6        Mr. Kelly if he would please come to my office,

 

       7        because all of a sudden I'm being bombarded by

 

       8        warehouses I didn't know.  I felt naked because

 

       9        Mr. Harden had told me one thing, people are

 

      10        calling, and now there's a Thomas Creek

 

      11        development.  And that development also was

 

      12        requesting light industrial.

 

      13             So I said, "Well, wait a minute.  Let's

 

      14        just hold this train."

 

      15             Mr. Sean Kelly came to my office and he

 

      16        educated me about some things that I did not

 

      17        know.  In the midst of Mr. Sean Kelly educating

 

      18        me, Mr. -- a gentlemen who I didn't know that

 

      19        well -- Killingsworth and Brad Thoburn were

 

      20        coming down the hall and I asked them to come

 

      21        into my office.  And God be my witness, they

 

      22        agreed that this was a problem.

 

      23             If you look here in what's in this

 

      24        greenish-blue -- and for the committee members

 

      25        that even made up their mind, I just wish you

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        would please listen to what I'm saying.

 

       2             You see how close those two are together?

 

       3             Now, if you look down here (indicating),

 

       4        this is what is current.  And it says in 2004

 

       5        this was done.  There were neighborhood meetings

 

       6        and the people in the area were told that this

 

       7        was going to be residential, this (indicating).

 

       8             Mr. Harden is proposing -- if you look at

 

       9        this, just look at it -- is proposing to take

 

      10        all of this LDR, this whole block and turn it

 

      11        into warehouses.  That's not good.

 

      12             The Thomas Creek development is up here

 

      13        (indicating).  At least they are attempting to

 

      14        use some type of multiuse.

 

      15             It has been said that this area has been

 

      16        targeted for light industrial.  Everybody on

 

      17        this committee is zoning intelligent.  Look at

 

      18        this, gentlemen.  Tell me anything you see on

 

      19        this map that's currently proposed -- look at

 

      20        it.  It's right here (indicating).  Not one

 

      21        thing speaks of IL.

 

      22             And this was done under your watch,

 

      23        Mr. Corrigan, Mr. Shad, and Mr. Clark, whoever

 

      24        was here in 2004, whoever was here in 2005, and

 

      25        whoever was here in 2006.  It's right there.

 

 

 

 

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       1             So Mr. Harden's statements that this is

 

       2        targeted for IL is erroneous.  It is just not.

 

       3             If you look here -- I had them to do

 

       4        another map.  Look at this.  I wanted to know

 

       5        how what they were proposing to do would

 

       6        overlap.  And look at it, gentlemen.  Look right

 

       7        here (indicating).  Look how close that is.

 

       8             Is it fair to put that much IL in one

 

       9        area?  Look at it.  It's right there in front of

 

      10        you.  The Planning Department, gentlemen, first

 

      11        made a recommendation to deny this amendment.

 

      12        It's right here, gentlemen.  And in the middle

 

      13        of the night, it was changed to approve it.

 

      14             I've been told that it is not unusual, but

 

      15        it's unusual when I talked to the planning

 

      16        director who says to me that this is too much

 

      17        and this really shouldn't be.

 

      18             And when Mr. Killingsworth, who stood in my

 

      19        office -- he didn't make a commitment, but he is

 

      20        responsible for land use that says it looks

 

      21        funny.

 

      22             I asked in the Planning Commission meeting

 

      23        some questions, and I'm not going to ask staff

 

      24        because Mr. Kresel really wasn't able to ask

 

      25        [sic] them, but these were some questions I

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        asked:

 

       2             I would like for the Planning Department to

 

       3        please tell me the land use categories and the

 

       4        actual uses that surround this property.  Aren't

 

       5        they all residential except for the land owned

 

       6        by the airport on the north side of the

 

       7        property?  Mr. Kresel's answer was yes.

 

       8             The Planning Department, in your original

 

       9        staff report of denial, you stated that

 

      10        historically the character of the area has been

 

      11        consistent with residential development patterns

 

      12        and that the property is landlocked and

 

      13        surrounded by residential dwellings.

 

      14             Gentlemen, it's right here.  It's staring

 

      15        you in the face.

 

      16             So please explain to me how changing this

 

      17        property to light industrial is consistent with

 

      18        the surrounding uses.  It is not.  I think this

 

      19        issue is about light industrial versus

 

      20        residential.

 

      21             We are being asked to change our future

 

      22        land use map, which is a policy decision.

 

      23        Regardless of what the developer says he is

 

      24        going to do on his site plan in the future, the

 

      25        real issue is whether light industrial uses are

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        compatible with the surrounding residential

 

       2        area.  And the answer is no.

 

       3             Mr. Chairman, I know people always say,

 

       4        let's just send this to DCA and we will work on

 

       5        the details later.  As Mr. Corrigan said to me,

 

       6        it's a part of this.  That's to suggest that

 

       7        there is some rule that says, when these come

 

       8        up, they have to go out.  That is just not true.

 

       9             There were a couple of other questions I

 

      10        had, gentlemen.

 

      11             The Planning Department, in your original

 

      12        staff report, you stated that this application

 

      13        is inconsistent with the North Jacksonville

 

      14        Vision Plan because it would interject light

 

      15        industrial into a residential area.  So what has

 

      16        changed now?  That's what was said on a Friday.

 

      17        On a Monday it changed to something else.

 

      18             This is the Planning Department's report,

 

      19        not mine.

 

      20             Planning Department, in your original staff

 

      21        report, you stated that on 317 acres the

 

      22        developer could put in over 5 million square

 

      23        feet of light industrial uses.  Would any of us

 

      24        want to see that in our neighborhood?

 

      25             Now, tell me what is the maximum number of

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        residential units that could go there right

 

       2        now?  Mr. Kresel wasn't able to give me that

 

       3        information.  I'm sure that the Planning

 

       4        Department has come up with something at this

 

       5        point.

 

       6             Mr. Chairman and members, I think the

 

       7        potential negative impacts of over 5 million

 

       8        square feet of LI uses compared to the impacts

 

       9        of residential development are easy to

 

      10        understand.  Regardless of what the developer

 

      11        wants to do on his site plan with buffers or

 

      12        landscaping, we are dealing with the policy

 

      13        decision of whether LI should go on this site.

 

      14             I think the right policy decision is to

 

      15        defer this or, at a minimum, until the next

 

      16        cycle so we can see if their proposals would

 

      17        work next to a residential area.

 

      18             One speaker said, who's in support, he

 

      19        feels that warehousing will have less impact.

 

      20        There is no way that 315 acres of warehouse will

 

      21        not have an impact on your property.  Not only

 

      22        will it have an impact on your roads, you don't

 

      23        know who's driving the trucks.

 

      24             I asked the question at the Flamingo Lake

 

      25        community meeting that I was invited to -- I

 

 

 

 

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       1        wasn't there for or against.  One man who's not

 

       2        here from Hemlock Road said, "Well, what's going

 

       3        to be in the warehouses?"

 

       4             Mr. Harden got up and attempted to define

 

       5        LI.  I said, "Paul, don't give them the

 

       6        definition.  If you don't know what's going to

 

       7        be in the warehouse, then say it."  And

 

       8        Mr. Harden said he did not know what was going

 

       9        to be in the warehouses.

 

      10             The question of security came up.  Three

 

      11        hundred and fifteen acres, 5 million square feet

 

      12        of warehousing, and you won't tell the people

 

      13        what's going to be in it.

 

      14             Mr. Harden -- originally it was supposed to

 

      15        be 35-foot buildings.  Now it's 40 feet.  What

 

      16        about the lighting?  It's a 24-hour operation.

 

      17        I think those questions need to be answered.

 

      18             So I would say to the supporters, it will

 

      19        have an impact.  I've been a City Councilman for

 

      20        17 years, and I'm going on my 18th year.  I have

 

      21        no reason to misrepresent the truth.  I care

 

      22        about you.  And my only quest is to make sure

 

      23        that the information that's given to you is

 

      24        accurate.  That's all.  I don't have a dog in

 

      25        this fight.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Someone said the quietness of the

 

       2        neighborhood.  How can you have 315 acres of

 

       3        warehouses with trucks steady going in and out

 

       4        and that's going to be quiet?  I -- it's not

 

       5        going to be quiet, but I think something could

 

       6        be worked out.

 

       7             Someone said that landowners should support

 

       8        this property and not renters.  Well, I will say

 

       9        for this, I was elected and I feel that it is my

 

      10        job to get the facts and present them to you.

 

      11        And you do what you want to do after that, but

 

      12        you have not been given the facts, gentlemen.

 

      13             I had prepared -- I want to address a

 

      14        couple of things.  Mr. Harden said that he had a

 

      15        letter from the Chamber.  I've always been a big

 

      16        supporter of the Chamber.  It would have been

 

      17        nice for them to at least try to contact me to

 

      18        get my opinion on this as the representative of

 

      19        the area.

 

      20             All of us are City Councilpeople.  We

 

      21        expect that kind of respect.  It's just

 

      22        principle, nothing to do with personality.  It

 

      23        is just principle.

 

      24             I spoke to Mr. John Clark because it was

 

      25        stated that the airport was in support of this

 

 

 

 

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       1        and that they would provide road frontage or

 

       2        whatever.  Mr. Clark said that is not true, that

 

       3        he had not made a commitment to anybody.  He

 

       4        said the only thing that they were dealing with

 

       5        was the Whitehouse issue.

 

       6             What is it called on here?  My name is on

 

       7        the bill.  I can't think of it.  Where we all

 

       8        signed on about the -- the Part 10 or something

 

       9        like that.  He said that was the only thing that

 

      10        there was a commitment from the airport.

 

      11             All of you know that I know Mr. Harden, and

 

      12        I know most of the developers that come before

 

      13        this council.  I was here for 17 years.  And I

 

      14        understand zoning as well as anybody.  And I

 

      15        understand that if you take 315 acres --

 

      16             You say you're worried about what type of

 

      17        people are going to be in your neighborhood.  It

 

      18        is something to worry about if you have truckers

 

      19        coming in and out.  You should be worried.

 

      20             We talk about buffers.  I think it's only

 

      21        fair that if this goes through, it's worked out,

 

      22        that the Flamingo Lake residents should have the

 

      23        buffer that they request.  It is not

 

      24        unreasonable.

 

      25             The other point that I would like to

 

 

 

 

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       1        make -- and I'm preparing for my closing

 

       2        remarks, Mr. Chairman.  Let's take this map one

 

       3        more time.  I have a list here and I'm going to

 

       4        ask Mr. Campbell to help me out with this.

 

       5             I'm going to be honest with you, I was

 

       6        very, very -- I am very concerned why the

 

       7        Planning Department changed their

 

       8        recommendation.  This Planning Department has

 

       9        been very accurate.  Mr. John Crofts is one of

 

      10        the best planners around.  He has the

 

      11        experience.  Everybody sitting up here, that's a

 

      12        planner, is a real planner.  And they did their

 

      13        homework.

 

      14             I know why it was changed, but I won't go

 

      15        there.

 

      16             I asked our Research Department to tell me

 

      17        how many times that the Planning Department

 

      18        within X number of years had denied and that

 

      19        this City Council approved.  And I asked

 

      20        specifically Mr. Harden's applications that were

 

      21        denied by the Planning Department but the

 

      22        council overrode those.  I have the information

 

      23        right here.  It's astounding.  It is something

 

      24        to be concerned about.  This was done by our

 

      25        Research Department.

 

 

 

 

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       1             The other issue:  It is common that we have

 

       2        these type of issues.  Zoning is emotional.

 

       3        Mr. Harden isn't doing any more than

 

       4        Mr. Birchfield has done or Mr. Hainline and all

 

       5        of the people who represent.  I see Mr. Saylor.

 

       6        Whomever.  This is common.  They represent

 

       7        people.

 

       8             But what is not common is that the district

 

       9        councilperson would be worked around, that the

 

      10        North CPAC was not even contacted.

 

      11             I talked to Mr. Baker and I asked him.  He

 

      12        said the only developers that contacted them --

 

      13        and they were in support of what they were

 

      14        trying to do with conditions -- were the Thomas

 

      15        Creek development people that came to their

 

      16        meeting.

 

      17             I was disappointed that the Planning

 

      18        Commission -- it was like, oh, okay.  We've

 

      19        already made up our mind.

 

      20             Here is a list of the North CPAC

 

      21        development groups.  These are people who pay

 

      22        taxes.

 

      23             Now, every one of us on this committee

 

      24        that's a district councilman, we look to our

 

      25        CPACs when we deal with our neighborhoods.  We

 

 

 

 

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       1        nay not always agree with them, but we give them

 

       2        that kind of respect.  I didn't even get that

 

       3        kind of respect.

 

       4             There was a meeting held I wasn't invited

 

       5        to.  My CPAC is being overlooked.  Whether you

 

       6        are for this or not, there's a process that we

 

       7        all must follow.

 

       8             The Northside has been the last side of

 

       9        town to even get a Home Depot.  I've been told

 

      10        by developers that commercial development and

 

      11        Targets and Wal-Marts and those kind of stores

 

      12        go where rooftops are.  I think I had that

 

      13        conversation with Mr. Killingsworth.

 

      14             And I know, Mr. Killingsworth, I've been

 

      15        very emotional.  And if I've said things to you

 

      16        that were offensive, I apologize.  I'm woman

 

      17        enough to do that.  But I was only going by the

 

      18        things that were told to me.  And when they were

 

      19        changed, I just didn't understand.

 

      20             If you -- at I-295 and Lem Turner,

 

      21        gentlemen --

 

      22             Mike, I'm trying to wrap it up because I

 

      23        know you have something to do.

 

      24             You have a Home Depot and you have a

 

      25        Wal-Mart.  That's it.  Lowe's is at the

 

 

 

 

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       1        airport.  The people have been begging for a

 

       2        Target.

 

       3             Look at the map, gentlemen.  Let's take a

 

       4        good look at just not too long ago, a year ago.

 

       5        Look at this.  You-all did it.  Nothing on here

 

       6        say you all went to IL.

 

       7             I understand that in this day and time,

 

       8        because of the flop in the housing market, the

 

       9        developers are trying to take their land and

 

      10        save it financially.  I understand what's

 

      11        happening with IL, but should it be done --

 

      12             Do you think for one minute that they would

 

      13        put warehouses on Hendricks Avenue going into

 

      14        San Jose?  It wouldn't happen.  You know why?

 

      15        Because of residents.

 

      16             Yes, there are a lot of woods.  It's near

 

      17        things, something.  I'm sure -- I'm not

 

      18        opposed.  I understand about the port and the

 

      19        seaport.  But Jacksonville is the largest city

 

      20        in land area in the country.  Certainly there's

 

      21        somewhere else they could put 315 acres of

 

      22        warehouses.

 

      23             And these developer aren't even willing to

 

      24        compromise.  They aren't even willing to look at

 

      25        MU.  It's all or nothing because it's been said

 

 

 

 

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       1        we don't have to.  All Denise is going to do is

 

       2        talk.

 

       3             And then -- Mr. Harden said something at

 

       4        the Flamingo community meeting that was a little

 

       5        disturbing, and I said to him -- he mentioned

 

       6        about one of the City Councilmen e-mail that he

 

       7        reads all the time.  And he said that he knew

 

       8        something because he had read a certain person's

 

       9        e-mail.  Now, let me say this to you all.  I

 

      10        know we have public disclosure, but that -- you

 

      11        know, it -- it plants in my head a seed of

 

      12        favoritism, that I don't have a chance.

 

      13             Now, I know there are people on this

 

      14        committee who may have already made up their

 

      15        mind, so I will close by saying I would prefer

 

      16        that this item be deferred for a couple of

 

      17        reasons:

 

      18             The CPAC has been left out.  It is untrue

 

      19        that this area is targeted for IL.  John Clark

 

      20        never told anybody that he had sent a letter of

 

      21        commitment or committed to any kind of road

 

      22        infrastructure improvements.

 

      23             Paul Harden did not talk to me six months

 

      24        ago.  Why did the Planning Department change its

 

      25        original recommendation?

 

 

 

 

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       1             Mr. Killingsworth explained to me, he said,

 

       2        "Well, we didn't have all the information at

 

       3        that time."  That may be true.  But ladies and

 

       4        gentlemen, there's some clear things on here

 

       5        that the planning staff report -- and you just

 

       6        don't go to bed and wake up and write this.

 

       7        This takes time.  This was researched.  It is

 

       8        inconsistent.

 

       9             You know, I could make some personal

 

      10        comments like Mr. Harden made relative to the

 

      11        people and some things he said to me, and he

 

      12        know what he said.  But if I do that, that would

 

      13        be getting personal.  And I'm trying to take

 

      14        every bone in my body not to get personal.  But

 

      15        this is personal.  What's personal is that we do

 

      16        what's right.

 

      17             I would ask you-all -- and Mr. --

 

      18        Mr. Chairman, you mentioned about sending it as

 

      19        a package because of the other semiannual

 

      20        revisions that are here.  These developers

 

      21        wouldn't even attempt to even put in conditions

 

      22        on this, that the CPAC must be -- that the CPAC

 

      23        must be contacted, that certain questions must

 

      24        be answered.

 

      25             I think that there should be conditions put

 

 

 

 

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       1        on this if it is to move out of this committee,

 

       2        but I would ask -- this doesn't go until

 

       3        June 27th.  We have a City Council meeting on

 

       4        Tuesday.  I would just ask for the opportunity,

 

       5        once again, to attempt to work with the

 

       6        developers to come up with some changes in this

 

       7        before it goes on to DCA.

 

       8             Eagle Bend Association, Dinsmore Civic

 

       9        Association, SWAT representatives (phonetic),

 

      10        New Berlin Enclave, New Hope Church of the

 

      11        Nazarene, Ashwood Owners Association, Oak Lake

 

      12        Point, Johnson Community, New Berlin, Cambridge

 

      13        Estates, the Cape Association, Highlands

 

      14        Homeowner Unit, Turtle Creek Village

 

      15        Association, Woodmont Community Association,

 

      16        Angel Lakes Community Association, Marshwinds

 

      17        Homeowners Association, Black Hammock Island

 

      18        Civic Association, Daybreak Woods Homeowners,

 

      19        Northside Lyons, North Lake Homeowners

 

      20        Association, White Shell Bay Homeowners, Golden

 

      21        Oaks, Oakleaf Point, Heckscher Drive Community

 

      22        Club, Jacksonville Estate Homeowners.  They make

 

      23        up the CPAC.  Not one of these groups had an

 

      24        opportunity to ask one question.

 

      25             Now, if anything, if the CPACs are there to

 

 

 

 

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       1        represent the neighborhoods, shouldn't these

 

       2        people have a right to know what the CPAC

 

       3        position is?

 

       4             And I would just ask that since we have a

 

       5        council meeting on Tuesday, I would like to try

 

       6        one more time, one more time to try to get the

 

       7        developers to reconsider what they're attempting

 

       8        to do.  It's right in front of you.

 

       9             Look how close these two blues are,

 

      10        you-all.  That's too close.  All of this

 

      11        turning -- everybody is recommending warehouse.

 

      12             Now, I -- even though I'm a City

 

      13        Councilperson for 18 years, I too needed to be

 

      14        educated.  I didn't jump the gun.  I didn't take

 

      15        Mr. Birchfield's word.  I didn't take

 

      16        Mr. Harden's word.  I picked up the phone and

 

      17        called the staff.  Shouldn't our staff be at

 

      18        some of these community meetings?

 

      19             I don't consider myself a zoning expert.

 

      20        Do you all?  Are you able to answer every zoning

 

      21        question that a resident might have?

 

      22             All I wanted was an opportunity to have the

 

      23        kind of community meeting and the impact from

 

      24        the CPAC so that valid questions could be

 

      25        answered, whether you were for it or against

 

 

 

 

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       1        it.  Even the people that are for it should have

 

       2        the right to ask us -- Mr. Kelly.

 

       3             Mr. Kelly, how many roads are going to go

 

       4        in here?  We were told that Hemlock Road was not

 

       5        going to be used.  So if Hemlock Road is not

 

       6        going to be used, then tell me where the 5- to

 

       7        8,000 employees, what street are they going

 

       8        down?

 

       9             Mr. Resident, is it true that the Northside

 

      10        Vision Plan -- that this is inconsistent?  Is it

 

      11        true, Mr. Staff Member, that this is

 

      12        inconsistent with residential use?

 

      13             Nothing on here, y'all.  That's a lot of

 

      14        trucks.

 

      15             This can be worked out.  I am your district

 

      16        council representative, whether you like the way

 

      17        I look or the way I talk, one thing you can bank

 

      18        on is that I'm going to represent you, and I'm

 

      19        going to do it right.

 

      20             A lot of things I may not do, but I care.

 

      21        And the way we're handling this is not the way

 

      22        to handle it.

 

      23             What is wrong with the developer meeting

 

      24        with the CPACs that represent you?  What is

 

      25        wrong with your City Councilperson not -- isn't

 

 

 

 

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       1        something wrong when your City Councilperson

 

       2        isn't invited to a community meeting that

 

       3        affects you?

 

       4             The one thing I tell everybody is that it

 

       5        might be you today, but it may be somebody else

 

       6        tomorrow.  You need to know what's going on in

 

       7        your neighborhood.  You need to ask the right

 

       8        questions.

 

       9             I've never known barbecues to be held to

 

      10        deal with zoning, not in the history of me being

 

      11        an elected representative.  And I've served in

 

      12        Tallahassee and Jacksonville, so I am pretty

 

      13        experienced.

 

      14             I am not against development.  If you look

 

      15        at the people that have supported me through the

 

      16        years, it's been realtors, it's been develop- --

 

      17        because I've been fair.  The people haven't

 

      18        always liked me supporting developers, but our

 

      19        city is growing.

 

      20             But, once again, I feel like the

 

      21        Northside -- once again, let's just throw it

 

      22        over there.  Let's just throw it over there.

 

      23        Nothing but trailer you know what, or you got

 

      24        some people want to sell their land and we're

 

      25        going to buy it.

 

 

 

 

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       1             And finally -- this has been difficult for

 

       2        me.  I feel I'm much calmer than I was last week

 

       3        or this week because I've had a chance to really

 

       4        think about this and to think about what I was

 

       5        going to say, to think about how to prepare

 

       6        myself, and I've done the best I know how to do

 

       7        without getting personal.

 

       8             But they say you're never supposed to pat

 

       9        yourself on the back.  And the one thing I've

 

      10        always stood for is I am a compromiser and I'm a

 

      11        team player.  But I have not compromised my

 

      12        principles on this, and I'm sure it's going to

 

      13        cause me a lot of grief from a lot of people.

 

      14             I only have one vote.  Some people may have

 

      15        ten.  This isn't personal.

 

      16             I would just ask this committee to give me

 

      17        an opportunity to try one more time.  This does

 

      18        not have to go out this evening.  The council

 

      19        meeting is Tuesday.  The chairman could ask for

 

      20        it to be pulled.  But there are groups in the

 

      21        area that have not gotten facts, and I'm just

 

      22        asking if you-all would consider it.

 

      23             If not, then I will continue to do what I

 

      24        can to make this thing right.  You will see

 

      25        after we finish discussing this, you will see a

 

 

 

 

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       1        big difference in how the other one was handled.

 

       2             Mr. Chairman, it's a bad feeling, you

 

       3        know -- and I guess this is where the politics

 

       4        come in.  And I said this to you, and if it was

 

       5        offensive, I apologize.

 

       6             I said to Mike, I said, you know, not too

 

       7        long ago I supported you on something that was

 

       8        really devastating and you wanted, and I

 

       9        happened to be the swing vote.  And so you know

 

      10        how emotions do.  You feel like somebody should

 

      11        support you.

 

      12             I take that back because we are all

 

      13        individuals and you have the right to do

 

      14        whatever.  And I was up on your mic, so I don't

 

      15        know if it was recorded.  So I want to make sure

 

      16        for the record.

 

      17             These things are emotional, and I just --

 

      18        was asking for a deferral.  And if I offended

 

      19        you in any way as well, I do apologize.

 

      20             And I'll let my comments -- if I have to

 

      21        respond to anything else, I would.  I have a lot

 

      22        of remarks and things that were said to me.  I

 

      23        was threatened.  I was invited to a fight.  But,

 

      24        you know, I assume that was out of emotions.

 

      25             I will say -- and Mr. Harden could vouch

 

 

 

 

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       1        for this -- when I found out that Mr. Harden was

 

       2        a partner, I said to Paul, I said, "Paul, had I

 

       3        known that, I would have told you don't

 

       4        represent this.  Let somebody else do it,"

 

       5        because perception is more destructive than

 

       6        reality.

 

       7             All I'm asking for is an opportunity just

 

       8        to see if something can be done about the 315

 

       9        acres that are being recommended to change all

 

      10        the way.

 

      11             Do we just want the Northside to be all

 

      12        warehousing?

 

      13             Thank you.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilmember Webb.

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Just to let you know, we're

 

      17        not in a posture to do anything, so --

 

      18             MR. WEBB:  Thank you.

 

      19             Through the Chair to -- well, you know,

 

      20        this is one of the problems we have when we

 

      21        consider a land use transmittal in the absence

 

      22        of the zoning, but -- and we ultimately don't

 

      23        know what this project is going to look like

 

      24        until such time as the zoning comes before us.

 

      25        There's 317.5 proposed here, but it's not even a

 

 

 

 

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       1        proposal.  It's something that's anticipated

 

       2        sometime down the road perhaps.

 

       3             Question for Mr. Harden, though.

 

       4             Mr. Harden, you got a second?

 

       5             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  How are you, sir?

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  I'm sure that was a rhetorical

 

       8        question.

 

       9             MR. WEBB:  I'm looking -- I'm looking at

 

      10        the RV facility, and -- well, actually, I'm

 

      11        looking north of that.  You've got 845 feet

 

      12        buffer, 815 down for Hemlock, and then you've

 

      13        got 815 for Newcomb, and you've got a buck-85,

 

      14        plus or minus, for the RV center.

 

      15             Why is that?  I mean, again, I assume that

 

      16        all of the property that's in yellow is part of

 

      17        the transmittal; is that correct?

 

      18             MR. HARDEN:  That's right.

 

      19             The 317, but surrounding it's about

 

      20        200 acres of buffer.

 

      21             It's pretty simple.  The RV park is a

 

      22        commercial use.  It is not typical that you

 

      23        buffer off a commercial use from another use.

 

      24        If there was a hotel there or if there was a

 

      25        retail use, you know, all those would not

 

 

 

 

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       1        require, you know, a substantial buffer.

 

       2             When they sent me that letter, the term

 

       3        sheet which you have, we redesigned the site

 

       4        plan, we added in the agreement to do the

 

       5        10-foot berm, and we went back 185 feet.  They

 

       6        asked for 200 feet.  We went back 185 feet by

 

       7        redesigning.

 

       8             So, again, that's an issue we'll be happy

 

       9        to deal with in the PUD.  That's the time to

 

      10        deal with it.

 

      11             I don't think it's reasonable to buffer off

 

      12        substantially a commercial use from another

 

      13        commercial use.  If the Planning Department

 

      14        feels differently, that we should buffer those

 

      15        two lots at the time it's reviewed, we'll be

 

      16        happy to do it.

 

      17             MR. WEBB:  I heard what you're saying with

 

      18        regards to the commercial use, but you've got to

 

      19        weigh the equities in this particular situation

 

      20        because it is a commercial use perhaps

 

      21        technically.  But, again, consider the

 

      22        equities.  It's not really a commercial use.  I

 

      23        mean, people are -- they're living there.  I

 

      24        mean, for all intents and purposes, I guess.

 

      25             MR. HARDEN:  Well, they're not supposed to

 

 

 

 

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       1        be.

 

       2             MR. WEBB:  They're not supposed to be.

 

       3             All right.  And that's -- now -- that's all

 

       4        I have.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

       6             I actually have a question for one of the

 

       7        speakers.  I believe it was Mr. Robert Little.

 

       8             Mr. Little, could you come back -- were you

 

       9        the one that passed out this book?

 

      10             MR. LITTLE:  Yes, sir.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  On page 6, there's two

 

      12        pictures.  I don't really understand what the

 

      13        pictures are --

 

      14             MR. LITTLE:  That picture on the top is a

 

      15        Google Earth picture taken several years ago.

 

      16             The picture on the bottom is to show the

 

      17        money and the improvements that we've put into

 

      18        the resort and future plans on paving that area

 

      19        that we have just recently added on the other

 

      20        side of the lake, and that's due to the demand

 

      21        the park has generated.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.  I

 

      23        appreciate it.

 

      24             Councilmember Yarborough was next.

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

 

 

 

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       1             I realize we're not in the right posture

 

       2        for a debate on the bill.  I won't ask the staff

 

       3        questions yet.  I'll just ask a couple of the

 

       4        speakers up.

 

       5             Mr. Fisher, Jr., I think it was.

 

       6             MR. FISHER:  Michael, yes, sir.

 

       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  If you could come up,

 

       8        please.

 

       9             (Mr. Fisher approaches the podium.)

 

      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  And you're representing

 

      11        the park; is that right, sir?

 

      12             MR. FISHER:  One of the owners, yes.

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  And this relates to

 

      14        the issue -- it's adding into my decision here.

 

      15             One of the ladies that came up -- I believe

 

      16        it was Ms. Howell -- mentioned that there was a

 

      17        problem with possibly garbage being thrown into

 

      18        her yard from some of the folks that have been

 

      19        in the park, and I just wanted to ask -- and it

 

      20        does relate to the bill certainly.

 

      21             But, you know, if that is a problem, is

 

      22        that being addressed to folks that abut --

 

      23             MR. FISHER:  Absolutely.

 

      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  -- the RV park?

 

      25             I mean, that just can't continue if it's

 

 

 

 

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       1        happening out there.

 

       2             MR. FISHER:  We want to be the best -- not

 

       3        only the best RV resort in North Florida, but we

 

       4        want to be the best neighbors we can be.

 

       5             And, as you know, Robert Little joined our

 

       6        team here just recently.  We solicited him.  We

 

       7        found out he was the best of the best, and he is

 

       8        the best.  And his policy on neighbors -- and

 

       9        he's sending the olive branch to everyone and

 

      10        doing whatever he can to ameliorate any problem

 

      11        that a neighbor might have with our facility or

 

      12        our guests -- is next to none.

 

      13             We certainly are open -- we have a rapport

 

      14        with our neighbors, and we are willing to be

 

      15        flexible and do whatever they would like to

 

      16        improve their quality of life as well.

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I appreciate that,

 

      18        sir.

 

      19             MR. FISHER:  Thank you.

 

      20             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you.

 

      21             Mr. Chairman, I'll wait until we are

 

      22        actually in the right posture.  I don't want us

 

      23        to be outside of the process before I ask

 

      24        questions that are pertinent to the merits of

 

      25        the bill.

 

 

 

 

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       1             Thank you.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I don't have anybody

 

       3        else in my queue.  Do.

 

       4             I have a motion on the bill?

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second

 

       8        on 2008-398.

 

       9             Seeing no speakers on my queue on the bill,

 

      10        Councilmember Yarborough.

 

      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you.

 

      12             I just wanted to ask -- there were several

 

      13        things that Councilwoman Lee said, and I just

 

      14        wanted to get a little bit of clarification

 

      15        here.

 

      16             If there was a change in the Planning

 

      17        Department's position, why is my question.

 

      18             MR. CROFTS:  I'm going to defer to

 

      19        Bill Killingsworth on that.

 

      20             MR. KILLINGSWORTH:  To the Chair to the

 

      21        Councilmember, the department initially had

 

      22        three issues with this application.  One was

 

      23        meeting level of service for the roads, the

 

      24        second was site access, and the third was

 

      25        transitioning to the surrounding uses.

 

 

 

 

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       1             It turns out that we didn't have an LOS

 

       2        problem, so that issue went away.

 

       3             Site access, the applicant informed us that

 

       4        he's working on a northerly site access and has

 

       5        stated so on the record.

 

       6             If that's the case, he will not be allowed

 

       7        to use Hemlock or Newcomb for this.

 

       8             And the third item was transitional.

 

       9             When he originally applied, it was for LI,

 

      10        which is a conventional zoning.  And it's for

 

      11        the site in which he's actually doing the land

 

      12        use change on right now.

 

      13             Since that time, the applicant has come

 

      14        back and has agreed to do a PUD, and I believe

 

      15        the PUD will encompass the entire parcel as

 

      16        opposed to just the piece that's being changed.

 

      17             That essentially gives a substantial buffer

 

      18        around the project, and the department felt that

 

      19        that adequately addressed the issue.

 

      20             But those design issues will have to take

 

      21        place in the PUD.  They won't take place in the

 

      22        land use.

 

      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  So all that will be

 

      24        tweaked when it comes back, if it comes back.

 

      25             If we do that, then, in the PUD, that will

 

 

 

 

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       1        be addressed -- all those details?

 

       2             MR. KILLINGSWORTH:  That's correct.

 

       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I appreciate that.

 

       4             Mr. Harden, if I could ask you a couple of

 

       5        questions, please.

 

       6             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)

 

       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  It was also mentioned

 

       8        about the -- I guess the hours of operation, the

 

       9        lighting, the noise, would it be a 24-hour

 

      10        operation.  I wanted to ask you about that.

 

      11             And then also in regards to traffic.  Can

 

      12        you speak to those things?  Lighting, noise,

 

      13        stuff like that?

 

      14             MR. HARDEN:  As is typical -- first of all,

 

      15        from any resident, we're almost 1,000 feet

 

      16        away.  So there won't be any lighting issues on

 

      17        the residential.  The only place that would

 

      18        have, I guess, a lighting or noise issue would

 

      19        be the other commercial operation which, again,

 

      20        has I-95 next to it.

 

      21             We will include in there -- I-295.

 

      22             We will include in there noise attenuation

 

      23        issues.  This is very typical in most PUDs.

 

      24        They require a lighting plan, that we have all

 

      25        the lighting directed onto the site.  Those are

 

 

 

 

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       1        issues that we deal with in the PUD.  We deal

 

       2        with them on car dealerships, we deal with them

 

       3        on Home Depots, we deal with them on Target, and

 

       4        we'll deal with it in this project in the PUD.

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  Do you think it

 

       6        will be more of an around-the-clock thing or

 

       7        will it be more during the daytime?

 

       8             MR. HARDEN:  No.  I think it will be a more

 

       9        around-the-clock issue, yeah.  And that's why

 

      10        we're buffered back 1,000 feet off the site.

 

      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  And then one of the

 

      12        gentlemen mentioned -- and I think you spoke to

 

      13        it in your rebuttal, as far as the -- and I

 

      14        think you said it wasn't actually part of it,

 

      15        the possible employee entrance off of, I guess,

 

      16        Dunn Avenue.  But, in fact --

 

      17             MR. HARDEN:  No, that's just not right.  We

 

      18        don't have access --

 

      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Is that going to be off of

 

      20        Lem Turner?

 

      21             MR. HARDEN:  It's going to be off --

 

      22             MR. YARBOROUGH:  It's not going to be off

 

      23        of Dunn Avenue?

 

      24             MR. HARDEN:  We don't have any access off

 

      25        Dunn Avenue.  None.

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  We don't own land to

 

       3        Dunn Avenue.  Our access will be the boulevard

 

       4        entrance that we have proposed.

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I appreciate that.

 

       6             Thank you.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Yes, sir.

 

       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  I guess just two or three

 

       9        quick comments, Mr. Chairman.

 

      10             This -- I've been looking over this for

 

      11        several days, and I wanted to -- I wanted to

 

      12        hear what Ms. Lee had to say.

 

      13             I did meet with Mr. Harden the other day to

 

      14        talk about this, and I know how -- I know how

 

      15        sensitive the nature and issue like this

 

      16        is, especially being in a district

 

      17        councilperson's -- well, obviously everything is

 

      18        in a district, but with the representative being

 

      19        on one side or the other.

 

      20             There were a few things that I heard during

 

      21        it that is fueling what my decision is tonight.

 

      22        One thing is that with the current allowance out

 

      23        there, what is currently allowed, as was said --

 

      24        or townhomes that could be 10 feet away and

 

      25        potentially 45 feet tall.  That was one thing.

 

 

 

 

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       1        And this will change if this is approved as

 

       2        we're being told it would be.

 

       3             The other thing is that all the traffic

 

       4        would be on a new road that would be put in

 

       5        north of the Hemlock Road properties, so it

 

       6        would not come right through where those

 

       7        existing homes are.

 

       8             And then the other two things are, this can

 

       9        still be tweaked before it's actually approved

 

      10        in the PUD when it comes back for the actual

 

      11        rezoning.

 

      12             The next thing I'd like to say is something

 

      13        that's very difficult, and I don't want my

 

      14        colleague, Ms. Lee, to in any way think I'm --

 

      15        I've tried to take the person- -- the

 

      16        personality factor, the emotional factor out of

 

      17        it.

 

      18             I know when Mr. Bishop and I were very

 

      19        adamant about our airport issue over in East

 

      20        Arlington, that we were very concerned about the

 

      21        impact, the surrounding properties.  And it was

 

      22        very hard as a district representative to stand

 

      23        up and to fight for our folks over there.  It

 

      24        was very, very difficult, even at the

 

      25        transmittal time.  And then we realized it would

 

 

 

 

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       1        go over and then it would come back and we would

 

       2        have an opportunity again to address that.  And

 

       3        it was very, very difficult.

 

       4             I told Mr. Harden that I would not support

 

       5        this unless adequate buffers would be given to

 

       6        the folks in Flamingo Lake and that every effort

 

       7        possible should be made to readjust the

 

       8        configuration of the buildings and the footprint

 

       9        of the site and all of that to make sure that

 

      10        they were shielded from that, that there was a

 

      11        buffer, that there was anything that could be

 

      12        put in place to shield them from that,

 

      13        regardless of what they're doing in their

 

      14        operation.

 

      15             There may not be concerns that need to be

 

      16        addressed on their end with what they're doing,

 

      17        but when you have the opportunity to do

 

      18        something to help folks and to provide buffers

 

      19        and do all that, that's what I wanted to see

 

      20        done.

 

      21             Because we would have an opportunity to

 

      22        address this again when it comes back from DCA,

 

      23        I will say now I will not support that unless

 

      24        there are adequate buffers to protect the

 

      25        neighboring properties and to keep their best

 

 

 

 

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       1        interest in mind also.

 

       2             And it's very hard to sit here and say that

 

       3        I will support it, which I intend to tonight to

 

       4        help it go over, if that's the will of the

 

       5        council next week, in opposition to the district

 

       6        councilperson's sentiment on this.  That is very

 

       7        difficult.

 

       8             But I certainly -- I respect that.  I do

 

       9        know how it feels when it's an issue like this.

 

      10        But tonight I will support it.  But if it does

 

      11        come back and it's not changed to where we're

 

      12        protecting these folks, it won't have my support

 

      13        when it comes back.

 

      14             And that's all I have to say,

 

      15        Mr. Chairman.

 

      16             Thank you.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      18             Councilmember Shad.

 

      19             MR. SHAD:  I echo the comments of

 

      20        Councilmember Webb and Councilmember Yarborough

 

      21        that some work needs to be done on the buffer

 

      22        that backs up to a commercial use.  But as

 

      23        Councilmember Webb said, it's a different

 

      24        commercial use than a retail and it needs some

 

      25        protection.

 

 

 

 

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       1             And I had an opportunity to tour the park

 

       2        and spoken with many times with the applicant

 

       3        and with the owners of the RV park, and I do

 

       4        think it probably needs more discussion there on

 

       5        the buffer.  So it sounds like that's being

 

       6        echoed, and we'll work that out should this get

 

       7        transmitted and get approved.  And we'll --

 

       8        whoever is on LUZ next cycle will deal with

 

       9        that, so -- probably not going to be me.

 

      10             So I can support it tonight with --

 

      11        everyone has made it very clear that the

 

      12        buffering and the protection to that park --

 

      13        although it's commercial, it's a different type

 

      14        of commercial.  It probably needs to be

 

      15        protected.  And I think we've got that on the

 

      16        record plenty tonight, so we'll get that done.

 

      17             Thank you.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember

 

      19        Shad.

 

      20             Councilmember Lee.

 

      21             Are we in proper posture yet?

 

      22             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Yes.

 

      23             MS. LEE:  I have a question for

 

      24        Mr. Yarborough.

 

      25             Mr. Yarborough, I listened to your

 

 

 

 

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       1        comments.  And you've had several issues in your

 

       2        district, other than Craig Airport, where you've

 

       3        had to deal with -- and I think you were

 

       4        vehement on the CPAC dealing with the -- I

 

       5        forgot what you call it -- the town center where

 

       6        you wanted that dealt with.

 

       7             I would like to ask you a question, and I

 

       8        guess I would -- I guess Mr. Webb, who had a

 

       9        comment.  Does -- do you think that CPACs --

 

      10        that these developers should go out and have

 

      11        community meetings with everybody and not just

 

      12        people that they host a barbecue for?

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Just speaking to that

 

      14        specific question?

 

      15             MS. LEE:  Yes.  I mean, I mentioned that

 

      16        the CPACs had not been talked to, the developers

 

      17        completely circumvented me, did not invite me to

 

      18        a community meeting.  But the CPACs more

 

      19        particularly.  I talked with the president of

 

      20        the CPAC.

 

      21             Do you think that should be a --

 

      22             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Did you say that the CPAC

 

      23        wasn't notified about this?

 

      24             MS. LEE:  Yes.

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Well, I can only speak to

 

 

 

 

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       1        what the Greater Arlington/Beaches CPAC does.

 

       2             They have --

 

       3             MS. LEE:  No.  I'm just asking you about --

 

       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Well, this is it.  This is

 

       5        the answer to the question.

 

       6             The Greater Arlington/Beaches CPAC reviews

 

       7        everything that comes through that has a

 

       8        potential effect in their communities that they

 

       9        are made up of, those neighborhood leaders and

 

      10        all those neighborhoods over in that area, and

 

      11        they go through and dissect each one.  They even

 

      12        have a Land Use and Zoning Subcommittee.

 

      13        They're aware of every bill that comes through

 

      14        that affects the Greater Arlington/Beaches area.

 

      15             So I don't know how it works in other

 

      16        CPACs, but they do --

 

      17             MS. LEE:  That's not my question.

 

      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  -- they do look over it.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  Through the Chair, my question is

 

      20        because I stated that these CPACs attempted and

 

      21        that the developers decided that they did not

 

      22        have to talk to them, they didn't even make an

 

      23        attempt.  That's not -- that doesn't bother

 

      24        you?

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  I won't deny that the

 

 

 

 

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       1        barbecue does sound peculiar.

 

       2             MS. LEE:  I said the CPACs.  Does it bother

 

       3        you that this CPAC, the North CPAC that has a

 

       4        responsibility at least of having an opportunity

 

       5        to ask questions and vet whatever, that they

 

       6        were not included?  The developers never even

 

       7        attempted to get with them.

 

       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  When did the CPAC become

 

       9        aware of it?

 

      10             MS. LEE:  They invited them, just like they

 

      11        did Thomas Creek.  Thomas Creek development

 

      12        showed up.

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  But, I mean, you

 

      14        said they weren't notified.  When did they

 

      15        become aware of this project?

 

      16             MS. LEE:  I don't know.

 

      17             But the point is that the developers did

 

      18        not go to their meeting or didn't even make any

 

      19        attempts to meet with them.  And that's just a

 

      20        simple question.  Does it concern you?

 

      21             MR. YARBOROUGH:  That does raise some

 

      22        concerns, yes, ma'am.

 

      23             MS. LEE:  I was just wondering.

 

      24             Mr. Webb?

 

      25             MR. WEBB:  Through the Chair to

 

 

 

 

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       1        Councilmember Lee, I just -- when you guys were

 

       2        going back and forth discussing this matter, I

 

       3        asked Planning what their position was with

 

       4        respect to notification of the CPAC.  I'd asked

 

       5        Planning to respond to that.

 

       6             MS. LEE:  No, not Planning.  Excuse me.

 

       7        Let me repeat it, Jack.

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  Are you talking about

 

       9        specifically the developers?

 

      10             MS. LEE:  Right.  The developers would not

 

      11        go to the CPAC meeting where -- the Thomas Creek

 

      12        development, they invited them.  It's their

 

      13        community.  They make recommendations.  You know

 

      14        what CPACs do in your neighborhood.

 

      15             MR. WEBB:  Sure.

 

      16             MS. LEE:  So that we would have impact

 

      17        whether we're for them or against.

 

      18             And the only reason I ask you, because you

 

      19        and Yarborough have made some comment.

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  Sure.

 

      21             I think any proposed development or any

 

      22        rezoning or transmittal should -- I mean,

 

      23        developers should go above and beyond.  That

 

      24        being the case -- that being the case,

 

      25        there's -- as Councilmember Yarborough noted,

 

 

 

 

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       1        there's ample opportunity to do that in the

 

       2        transmittal process.  After the transmittal

 

       3        process -- both when it comes back before the

 

       4        council on the land use and on the PUD.

 

       5             MS. LEE:  Through the Chair to legal --

 

       6             MR. WEBB:  And perhaps we can get a

 

       7        commitment from the developer in that regard.

 

       8             MS. LEE:  Well, through the Chair to legal,

 

       9        can conditions be attached to this transmittal?

 

      10             MS. ELLER:  The only conditions that you

 

      11        can attach to a transmittal are just

 

      12        highlighting things that should be considered in

 

      13        adoption.  Specific conditions with regard to

 

      14        details of the site planning are conditions for

 

      15        the rezoning.

 

      16             MS. LEE:  Okay.  So one condition that I

 

      17        might would suggest would certainly be that

 

      18        community meetings be held, that district

 

      19        councilpersons be notified, that the CPAC not be

 

      20        circumvented, and that the district

 

      21        councilperson be involved in each and every

 

      22        discussion.

 

      23             Can that be a condition attached?

 

      24             MS. ELLER:  That can be an amendment that

 

      25        you offer to the bill for consideration by the

 

 

 

 

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       1        committee.  You can move that amendment.

 

       2             MS. LEE:  Well, I'm debating.  You're not

 

       3        supposed to debate and move an amendment, so I

 

       4        would ask that somebody would have to move it

 

       5        for me.

 

       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Mr. Chairman, if I could,

 

       7        with what Ms. Eller just said, everything she

 

       8        said, if we could roll that into language for an

 

       9        amendment, I'll offer that as amendment to the

 

      10        resolution.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion.

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  I'll second it for discussion

 

      13        purposes.  And, again, I'm seconding it.  And I

 

      14        guess the subject -- again, for the purposes of

 

      15        discussion.

 

      16             I wonder if it might be just as

 

      17        effective -- we talked about the buffering,

 

      18        getting that on the record -- if it might be

 

      19        appropriate for Mr. Harden just to verbally

 

      20        commit in the record that this is something that

 

      21        he will comply with.

 

      22             The same issue will resolve the buffer

 

      23        issue and, moreover, will resolve this issue as

 

      24        well with respect to appropriate notification

 

      25        without the cumbersome nature, without amending

 

 

 

 

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       1        the transmittal.

 

       2             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Chairman, may I ask what

 

       3        I'm being asked to do?

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  I was going to ask what

 

       5        you're being asked.  So you can --

 

       6             MR. HARDEN:  Let me just say this --

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Notification.  I'll defer to

 

       8        Ms. Lee on that.  But notification to the CPAC

 

       9        by the developer.

 

      10             MR. HARDEN:  The -- well, Ms. Lee's

 

      11        description is not an accurate description of

 

      12        what happens.

 

      13             The Planning Department, in fact, sends

 

      14        every application to every CPAC, including the

 

      15        Northside CPAC.  If they want us to come to the

 

      16        meeting, they set it on the agenda.  They call

 

      17        us and they show up.  I go to the Northside CPAC

 

      18        meeting every month.  Every single month they

 

      19        meet, I go there.  When they ask me about an

 

      20        item, I ask about it.

 

      21             I can't schedule community meetings.

 

      22        That's someone else's job.  When people ask me

 

      23        to come into a community to answer questions, I

 

      24        do that.

 

      25             So I will go to the CPAC meeting.  I will

 

 

 

 

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       1        write them a letter and say, Do you want to meet

 

       2        with me?  I'm happy to do it.  But it's a

 

       3        misstatement to say that I circumvented the

 

       4        CPAC, because they invite me to their meetings

 

       5        and I show up when they invite me.  I don't just

 

       6        barge in to a meeting.  They have an agenda of

 

       7        items they want to discuss.

 

       8             So, yes, I'll be happy to go to the CPAC

 

       9        meeting.  If you want me to tell them that I

 

      10        propose a date to do it, I'll be happy to do

 

      11        it.  But that's a misstatement of what happened

 

      12        in this situation.

 

      13             MS. LEE:  Since I asked the question, let

 

      14        me --

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Wait.  We're on the

 

      16        amendment first, and I'd like a clarification

 

      17        from somebody on what the amendment is.

 

      18             Ms. Eller, you can do that.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  Well, I thought we were

 

      20        discussing it.

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah, but I want to know

 

      22        what the amendment is before we discuss it.

 

      23             MS. ELLER:  As I heard the amendment, it's

 

      24        two parts.  The first part was the conditions

 

      25        that were offered by Councilmember Lee, whereby

 

 

 

 

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       1        the applicant agrees to contact the CPAC and

 

       2        present this project to the CPAC.

 

       3             And the second part was, as Councilmember

 

       4        Webb stated, which would be that the buffering

 

       5        issue shall be addressed as part of the adoption

 

       6        in the PUD.

 

       7             MR. HARDEN:  Sure.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that your understanding?

 

       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Nods head.)

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion and a

 

      11        second.

 

      12             Councilmember Lee.

 

      13             MS. LEE:  Thank you.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let the record reflect the

 

      15        applicant has agreed to those two conditions.

 

      16             MS. LEE:  Let me just get on the record.

 

      17             But Mr. Harden could, as other developers

 

      18        do -- we all have districts.  Mr. Harden could

 

      19        have been assertive.  Just like he worked

 

      20        Hemlock Road and went to people and called them,

 

      21        he could have done the same thing for the CPAC.

 

      22        So don't, don't, don't, don't, don't try to

 

      23        slick people.  Don't do that.

 

      24             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Chairman --

 

      25             MS. LEE:  You do this on --

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. HARDEN:  -- I don't think that's a fair

 

       2        comment.

 

       3             MS. LEE:  You do this on a regular basis.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, Ms. Lee, let's keep on

 

       5        the motion that's on the floor.

 

       6             MS. LEE:  The motion is -- I just wanted to

 

       7        set the record straight because Mr. Harden is

 

       8        not representing the truth.

 

       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  But that doesn't matter.  On

 

      10        this motion -- the motion is about the two

 

      11        conditions that Ms. Eller read.

 

      12             Councilmember Shad.

 

      13             MR. SHAD:  Call the question.

 

      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second to call

 

      16        the question is nondebatable.

 

      17             All in favor signal by saying aye.

 

      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  The question has been

 

      22        called.

 

      23             We're on the amendment.

 

      24             All in favor of the amendment as read by

 

      25        Ms. Eller and agreed to by Mr. Harden say aye.

 

 

 

 

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       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.

 

       5             We're back on the bill as amended.

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  Move the bill as amended.

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

       9        bill as amended.

 

      10             Councilmember Shad.

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Call the question.

 

      12             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second to call

 

      14        the question.

 

      15             All in favor of calling the question signal

 

      16        by saying aye.

 

      17             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  The question has been

 

      21        called.

 

      22             We are now on 2008-398 as once amended.

 

      23             Open the ballot and record the vote.

 

      24             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

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       1             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MS. LEE:   (Votes nay.)

 

       4             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, one nay.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

       9        approved 2008-398.

 

      10             It is now 7:25.  It's been over two hours

 

      11        since -- 9:25.  Excuse me.  So our court

 

      12        reporter can take a break.  So we'll take a

 

      13        recess for ten minutes and come back.

 

      14             (Brief recess.)

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll go ahead and call back

 

      16        the meeting.

 

      17             Councilmembers, we're on item 43,

 

      18        2008-399.  We're going to open that public

 

      19        hearing.

 

      20             We have a speaker.  The speaker's name is

 

      21        Ms. Alberta Hipps.  She's right here on the

 

      22        front row.

 

      23             (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

      25             MS. HIPPS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.

 

       2             MS. HIPPS:  Good evening.

 

       3             Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret Street,

 

       4        Suite 323, 32204.

 

       5             Councilmembers, 2008-399 is a land use

 

       6        amendment, and it's noted in the Planning

 

       7        Department report as ordinance 2004-1344,

 

       8        rezoning this parcel from IL to a PUD to allow

 

       9        townhomes in 2004.  At that time, multifamily

 

      10        was allowed in LI land use when that PUD was --

 

      11        zoning was approved.

 

      12             Multifamily is no longer allowed in the

 

      13        land use category of LI.  There was no

 

      14        development after that zoning in 2004.  And when

 

      15        the landowner began to prepare for development,

 

      16        it was determined that -- through that text

 

      17        amendment, that the use as it was zoned was no

 

      18        longer allowed.

 

      19             The owner has applied for this land use, LI

 

      20        to CGC, which will allow for multifamily in a

 

      21        mixed-use project.

 

      22             The Planning Department has an approval,

 

      23        and I ask for your approval of this application

 

      24        to transmit it to Tallahassee.

 

      25             It's consistent with the policies of -- and

 

 

 

 

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       1        objectives of the 2010 comprehensive plan.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Hipps.

 

       3             Seeing no further speakers, we'll close

 

       4        that public hearing.

 

       5             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -399.

 

       8             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

       9        record the vote.

 

      10             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      11             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      20        approved 2008-399.

 

      21             MS. HIPPS:  Thank you.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll skip around to -- no,

 

      23        just kidding.

 

      24             The next item is item 44, 2008-400.

 

      25             We'll open that public hearing.  We have a

 

 

 

 

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       1        Mr. T.R. Hainline.

 

       2             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)

 

       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, Mr. Hainline.

 

       4             MR. HAINLINE:  Good evening.

 

       5             T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.

 

       6             Because of the hour, I'm going to be

 

       7        extremely brief.

 

       8             I'm here representing the Thomas Creek

 

       9        development, which was originally approved as a

 

      10        mixed-use development in 2004.  We are seeking

 

      11        transmittal of a designation of Thomas Creek as

 

      12        a regional activity center and as a multiuse

 

      13        development.

 

      14             We are keeping LDR residential uses; we are

 

      15        keeping CGC retail uses; we are adding a

 

      16        warehouse distribution and an office use.

 

      17             We did get a Planning Department

 

      18        recommendation of approval.  We did appear

 

      19        before the CPAC and obtained a CPAC resolution

 

      20        of support.

 

      21             I'm happy to answer any questions.  But

 

      22        otherwise, I'm not going to go into any more

 

      23        detail.

 

      24             However, in working with Ms. Lee, with

 

      25        Councilwoman Lee, she has asked that we clarify

 

 

 

 

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       1        that our LDR uses are going to go in the upper

 

       2        west corner at Braddock Road, and our CGC uses

 

       3        are going to go in the upper east corner on

 

       4        Lem Turner.

 

       5             And we have some condition language that

 

       6        I've worked with Ms. Eller and Mr. Killingsworth

 

       7        on.  I'd be happy to pass copies out to

 

       8        everybody.  I have them here.  But they have

 

       9        this language.  And I'm happy to do whatever

 

      10        y'all want me to do.  Pass it out or defer

 

      11        to Shannon and to Bill.

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  As long as it's on the

 

      13        record, that's all we need.

 

      14             MS. ELLER:  I can read the amendment.

 

      15             MR. HAIRLINE:  So with that, I'm happy to

 

      16        answer any questions.

 

      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you,

 

      18        Mr. Hainline.

 

      19             I don't see any questions.  Actually,

 

      20        Councilwoman Lee is there.

 

      21             Do you want to ask a question before I

 

      22        close the public hearing, or close it first,

 

      23        Ms. Lee?

 

      24             MS. LEE:  I don't have a question.  I

 

      25        wanted to get a copy.

 

 

 

 

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       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  The public hearing is

 

       2        closed.

 

       3             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.

 

       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

       6        amendment to -400.

 

       7             Seeing no discussion on the amendment, all

 

       8        in favor of the amendment signal by saying aye.

 

       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.

 

      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.

 

      13             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.

 

      14             MR. SHAD:  Second.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on

 

      16        2008-400 as amended.

 

      17             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      18        record the vote.

 

      19             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  I didn't see

 

      21        your light on.  I'm sorry.

 

      22             MS. LEE:  And I'm not going to take up much

 

      23        time, but I did want to, I think, in all, to

 

      24        make sure that I stay consistent.

 

      25             Again, the one that he's talking about,

 

 

 

 

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       1        again, is right here (indicating).  And that's

 

       2        the other blue where I was talking about, the

 

       3        warehouse.

 

       4             But the difference is -- with Thomas Creek

 

       5        is that -- let me just say this:  I really

 

       6        appreciate the respect that you have given my

 

       7        office.  I know you, but in this instance, what

 

       8        they're attempting to do, they did agree to keep

 

       9        a large part residential.  I think

 

      10        Mr. Killingsworth sees that on the map.

 

      11             And what I wanted to happen, even though

 

      12        you wanted to change it all to MU, I asked them,

 

      13        would they please -- I just felt better keeping

 

      14        some LDR and keeping -- not changing that at

 

      15        all, Mr. Killingsworth.  So that part would stay

 

      16        LDR.

 

      17             And up here (indicating) in that little

 

      18        corner would stay CGC.

 

      19             MR. HAINLINE:  The uses.

 

      20             MS. LEE:  The uses, right.

 

      21             And the other is MU, which they have agreed

 

      22        to work with me on.

 

      23             We're going to have a community meeting and

 

      24        we're going to be working in the neighborhoods

 

      25        to try -- so that people will be aware, they can

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        ask questions.  And the developer is here

 

       2        from -- Mr. Silver from South Florida, who I

 

       3        rode the property with.

 

       4             And you know -- and I know no one wants to

 

       5        hear this, but I'm just going to say it for the

 

       6        record.

 

       7             You know, it's easy to be a follower, but

 

       8        you-all did not have to work with me like you

 

       9        did.  Since I've been back, I've disagreed with

 

      10        you on several issues of your own company.  And

 

      11        you've been consistent.  And I would like to

 

      12        personally say that I will support this because

 

      13        of the character that you've displayed.

 

      14             And I always tell people what goes around

 

      15        comes around and that these seats don't have a

 

      16        name on them.  And when you're elected by the

 

      17        people, you should represent the people and not

 

      18        represent the developer, because I always

 

      19        believe you make -- if I lose a friend and you

 

      20        don't give me a contribution, I'll pick up

 

      21        another one.  So I just appreciate you

 

      22        supporting me.

 

      23             Thank you.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.

 

      25             I don't see anyone -- oh, Councilmember,

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        you want to vote -- or you want to speak?  I'm

 

       2        sorry.

 

       3             (Inaudible discussion.)

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no other speakers,

 

       5        let's open the ballot and record the vote.

 

       6             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       7             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      14             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      16        approved 2008-400.

 

      17             Committee members, we are now on page 14,

 

      18        item 45, 2008-401.  We'll open that public

 

      19        hearing.

 

      20             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

      21        hearing.

 

      22             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      23             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -401.

 

      25             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           244

 

 

       1        record the vote.

 

       2             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      10             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      12        approved 2008-401.

 

      13             2008-402.  We will open that public

 

      14        hearing.

 

      15             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

      16        hearing.

 

      17             No, actually, we're going to close it and

 

      18        move it.  We had a -- we had a notice, we think,

 

      19        from the applicant saying that they were okay.

 

      20             If we find out that actually it was not

 

      21        from the applicant, I'll rerefer it at Council

 

      22        this coming Tuesday.

 

      23             So we're fine.  We're now trying to move it

 

      24        out, keep it with the series.

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move it.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -402.

 

       3             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

       4        record the vote.

 

       5             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       6             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       9             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      11             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      15        approved 2008-402.

 

      16             We now have several text amendments.

 

      17             2008-403.  We'll open that public hearing.

 

      18             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

      19        hearing.

 

      20             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      21             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the

 

      23        bill on -403.

 

      24             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and

 

      25        record the vote.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

       2             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

       5             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

       6             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

       7             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       8             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       9             MR. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  You just approved 2008-403.

 

      11             Item 48, 2008-404.  Open the public

 

      12        hearing.

 

      13             Seeing no speakers, we're closing it.

 

      14             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

      15             MR. CLARK:  Second.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and a second on

 

      17        -404.

 

      18             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      19        record the vote.

 

      20             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      21             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      22             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      23             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      24             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      25             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

       2             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

       3             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

       5        approved 2008-404.

 

       6             2008-405.  Open the public hearing.

 

       7             Seeing no speakers, close the public

 

       8        hearing.

 

       9             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

      10             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on -405.

 

      12             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

      13        record the vote.

 

      14             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      15             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      18             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      19             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      20             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      21             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      24        approved 2008-405.

 

      25             Top of Page 15.  2008-406.  Open that

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        public hearing.

 

       2             Seeing no speakers, closing that public

 

       3        hearing.

 

       4             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.

 

       5             MR. WEBB:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second to move

 

       7        -406.

 

       8             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and

 

       9        record the vote.

 

      10             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      11             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've

 

      20        approved 2008-406.

 

      21             The following items will be deferred:

 

      22        2008-407, -408, -409, -410, -411, -412, -413,

 

      23        -414, -415, -416, -417, -418, -419, -420, -435,

 

      24        and -436.

 

      25             We are on page 19, item 67, 2008-437.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1             We will open that public hearing.

 

       2             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public

 

       3        hearing.

 

       4             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.

 

       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second

 

       7        on -437.

 

       8             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and

 

       9        record the vote.

 

      10             (Committee ballot opened.)

 

      11             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)

 

      12             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)

 

      13             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)

 

      14             MS. LEE:   (Votes yea.)

 

      15             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)

 

      16             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)

 

      17             (Committee ballot closed.)

 

      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.

 

      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you just

 

      20        approved 2008-437.

 

      21             2008-438.  Open that public hearing.

 

      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it.

 

      23             2008-439.  Open that public hearing.

 

      24             Seeing no speakers, we will continue it.

 

      25             We are on the top of page 20.  We already

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1        took care of that item.

 

       2             The following items will be second and

 

       3        rereferred:  2008-491, -492, -493, -494, -495,

 

       4        and -500.

 

       5             And unless I've missed something, that

 

       6        brings us to the end of our agenda.

 

       7             This is the last Land Use and Zoning

 

       8        Committee meeting for this council year.  I want

 

       9        to thank each and every one of my colleagues for

 

      10        the help, support, and patience during this past

 

      11        year.

 

      12             I don't know what the committee assignments

 

      13        will be, but I wish each one of you well in your

 

      14        future endeavors on council committees.

 

      15             And I want to also thank the Legislative

 

      16        Services staff, the General Counsel's Office,

 

      17        and the Planning Department.  You are all great

 

      18        resources.  And especially our court reporter,

 

      19        Diane, for all her help and support and strong

 

      20        fingers throughout our meeting.

 

      21             Having said that and before anybody can say

 

      22        anything else, we're adjourned.

 

      23             (The above proceedings were adjourned at

 

      24        9:50 p.m.)

 

      25                         -  -  -

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

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       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E

 

       2

 

       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:

 

       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :

 

       5

 

       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was

 

       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the

 

       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a

 

       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.

 

      10             Dated this 22nd day of June, 2008.

 

      11

 

      12

 

      13

 

      14                                 Diane M. Tropia

 

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           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203