1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Wednesday, February 20,


       7   2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.

                CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.

      14        MIA JONES, Committee Member.

                E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.

      15        ART SHAD, Committee Member.



           ALSO PRESENT:


                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      18        SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.

                FOLKS HUXFORD, Planning and Development Dept.

      19        DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

                JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.

      20        MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.


      21                         -  -  -













           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   February 20, 2008                       5:00 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ladies and gentlemen, we


       5        will call to order the Wednesday, February 20th


       6        meeting of the Land Use and Zoning Committee.


       7             We'll go ahead and pretty much run straight


       8        through the agenda.  We had an appeal that we


       9        were going to hear, but it's now going to be


      10        opened and continued.


      11             So we'll begin on page 2 -- sorry.


      12             For the record, we have four council


      13        members, LUZ committee members here today.  I'm


      14        Chairman Michael Corrigan, Vice Chairman


      15        Clay Yarborough, Councilwoman Mia Jones, and


      16        Councilmember Art Shad.


      17             We will begin on page 2 of our agenda.


      18        Item number 1, 2005-718.  We will open that


      19        public hearing.


      20             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      21        public hearing with no further comments.


      22             The following items will be deferred:


      23        2005-1161, -1228, 2006-24, -220, -360, and


      24        -520.


      25             Top of page 4, the following items will be





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        deferred:  2006-658, -144, -145, -384, and


       2        -581.


       3             We are now on the second item on page 5,


       4        2007-659.  We will open that public hearing.


       5             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       6        public hearing.


       7             Item 14, 2007-803, is deferred.


       8             Item 15, 2007-1011.  We'll open that public


       9        hearing.


      10             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      11        hearing.


      12             We have a substitute.


      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the substitute.


      14             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      16        on the substitute to -1011.


      17             Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the


      18        sub signal by saying aye.


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The substitute carries.


      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move to rerefer as


      24        substituted.


      25             MR. SHAD:  Second.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second to rerefer


       2        2007-1011.


       3             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,


       4        record the vote.


       5             (Committee ballot opened.)


       6             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      10             (Committee ballot closed.)


      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  You just subbed and


      13        rereferred 2007-1011.


      14             Committee members, top of page 6, item 16,


      15        2007-1046.  We'll open that public hearing.


      16             We have a few speakers, but before I call


      17        them up I will tell you that we will not be


      18        taking any action on this bill tonight.  At the


      19        advice of the General Counsel's Office, no


      20        action will be taken tonight and no action will


      21        be taken at the City Council meeting that will


      22        take place Tuesday night.


      23             Having said that, we do have two speakers'


      24        cards that are welcome to speak, although your


      25        comments might be more appropriate when we





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        actually are going to take action on the bill,


       2        but you are welcome.


       3             Ms. Kathy Taylor and Louise De Spain.


       4             Kathy --


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  She has waived her time.


       7             And Louise, is she here?


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  She left.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  She has left.  She must have


      10        gotten the message.


      11             So two speakers are not going to speak.  So


      12        seeing no further speakers, we will continue


      13        that public hearing with no further action.


      14             Item 17, 2007-1051, is deferred.  -1061 is


      15        deferred.


      16             We are on page 6 -- page 7, top of the


      17        page, 2007-1083.  We'll open that public


      18        hearing.


      19             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      20        public hearing with no further action.


      21             2007-1085.  We'll open that public hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      23        public hearing.


      24             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  On -1083, I believe


       2        Mr. Herzberg is here on behalf of that


       3        applicant.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  Mr. Herzberg is


       5        here.  I believe --  Mr. Herzberg, if you'd come


       6        forward.  You can turn a card in later.


       7             (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  I believe he's requesting


       9        that we go ahead and close this public hearing


      10        and withdraw this bill; is that correct, sir?


      11             MR. HERZBERG:  That's correct.


      12             Mr. Chairman, we ask that you withdraw the


      13        application.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      15             I'm sorry.  I forgot to note it when I got


      16        up here.


      17             Council members, at the applicant's


      18        request, we will close that public hearing.


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move to withdraw.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a -- do


      21        I have a second on the withdrawal?


      22             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      24        on the withdrawal of 2007-1083.


      25             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        record the vote.


       2             (Committee ballot opened.)


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       7             (Committee ballot closed.)


       8             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      10        withdrawn 2007-1083.


      11             Do we need a card for Mr. Herzberg since he


      12        spoke?


      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  Yes.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,


      15        Mr. Herzberg.  Sorry about that.


      16             We have withdrawn 2007-1083.


      17             We are now on item 20, 2007-1085.  We'll


      18        open that public hearing.


      19             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it.


      20             Item 21, 2007-1086.  We'll open that public


      21        hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      23        public hearing.


      24             Item 22, 2007-1121.  We'll open that public


      25        hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


       2        public hearing.


       3             Committee members, we are now on the top of


       4        page 8, 2007-1125.  We'll open that public


       5        hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       7        public hearing.


       8             Item number 24, 2007-1194.  We will open


       9        that public hearing.


      10             I received a letter from Councilmember Lee


      11        requesting that we defer this for one cycle.  So


      12        seeing no speakers, we will just continue that


      13        public hearing with no further action.


      14             Item 25, 2007-1196.  We'll open that public


      15        hearing.


      16             Seeing no speakers, we will close that


      17        public hearing.


      18             MS. JONES:  Move to withdraw.


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      21        to withdraw -1196.


      22             Seeing no discussion on the withdrawal,


      23        let's open the ballot and record the vote.


      24             (Committee ballot opened.)


      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       4             (Committee ballot closed.)


       5             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       7        withdrawn 2007-1196.


       8             2007-1215.  We'll open that public hearing.


       9             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      10        public hearing with no further action.


      11             Page 9.  Item 27, 2007-1230, is deferred.


      12             Item 28, 2007-1248.  We have a number of


      13        speakers' cards.  We will open that public


      14        hearing.


      15             Before we get started on that particular


      16        public hearing, at the last committee meeting I


      17        had some questions raised on -- I believe


      18        Councilmember Jones asked me some questions


      19        concerning the past history.  I did have some


      20        documents I was going to pass out to the


      21        committee members and also provide to the


      22        applicant, if I can find them.


      23             (Chairman Corrigan confers with Ms. Smith.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  My aide is


      25        correct.  I'm on the wrong bill.  I have no





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        documents on this bill.  I apologize.  I wrote


       2        myself a note and it wasn't correct.


       3             The applicant here is Mr. Mark Rubin.


       4             Mark, if you can come on up.


       5             (Mr. Rubin approaches the podium.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  You will have three minutes


       7        to make your remarks.  You may reserve some of


       8        that time to do rebuttal at the end, following


       9        the speakers.


      10             Right now I have, just for your


      11        information, Mr. Rubin, two in support and four


      12        in opposition at this point.


      13             Council members, does anyone have any


      14        ex-parte communications they need to declare at


      15        this point?


      16             Mr. Rubin, just one second, please.


      17             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  I will declare ex-parte


      19        communications with the applicant, Mr. Rubin, in


      20        phone conversations, both yesterday -- and a


      21        short meeting after the agenda meeting today to


      22        discuss the project.


      23             I also will declare ex-parte communications


      24        with Mr. Weaver by telephone today and also


      25        ex-parte communications with Bill Lee in a short





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        meeting in my office this afternoon.


       2             Having said that, Mr. Rubin, the floor is


       3        yours.


       4             MR. RUBIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Thank


       5        you, committee members.


       6             This matter is actually the third time --


       7        hearing before this body.  Once in an appeal


       8        mode on a relocation from -- for the building


       9        that's in the middle of the property, the


      10        house.  And, actually, three of the four members


      11        here today were at the -- the last time this


      12        came up before LUZ in January, and there are a


      13        number of different issues and additional


      14        information that I'd like to provide the


      15        committee with today.


      16             First, I'd like to highlight what has


      17        happened, what happened up to the last LUZ


      18        hearing, and I'll try to be as brief as I can.


      19             Number one, this matter came before the


      20        Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission.


      21        It received unanimous approval by staff and by


      22        the commission.  It then came before the City.


      23             It has received the blessing and the


      24        approval of City staff, and I would encourage


      25        the council members to inquire of City staff as





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to its findings and recommendations with respect


       2        to this project.  They have done a thorough and


       3        deep investigation into this, and their findings


       4        are consistent with what we believe is an


       5        appropriate project.


       6             Based on their recommendation, the Planning


       7        Commission had an extensive hearing, some two


       8        hours, and it also received unanimous approval


       9        at Planning Commission.


      10             It came before LUZ last month, and in a


      11        close vote, three-two, there were some -- it


      12        failed, but there were some issues that were yet


      13        to be unresolved -- yet to be resolved.  One of


      14        which is the fact that there's a pending


      15        Riverside Avondale overlay, which is much closer


      16        to approval now.  And, in fact, the overlay, as


      17        it relates to this corner of Riverside, has -- I


      18        believe there's no dispute among all the parties


      19        that are involved with the overlay.  And,


      20        therefore, that is now an approved condition and


      21        it's much more of a known rather than an unknown


      22        as it relates to this project.


      23             Additionally, we've worked with the


      24        neighborhood.  We've agreed to provide parking


      25        across the street, which will add some 15 or so





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        parking spaces to the project.  They can't be


       2        counted in the census for this project, but they


       3        are, nevertheless, across the street.


       4             The property owner that owns the majority


       5        of the property is here tonight to speak and


       6        endorses not only the project but also the


       7        institution of those spaces.  And we have agreed


       8        as a developer, if approved, to pay for those.


       9             And, finally, the Villa Riva condominiums


      10        are catercorner, across from this project,


      11        across the corner -- the intersection of


      12        Riverside and Stockton.  We've had extensive


      13        discussions and negotiations with the Villa Riva


      14        people, and we believe that they're satisfied


      15        that this is a good project.  I believe that


      16        some of those folks may be here to talk about


      17        that specifically.


      18             And, of course, I'd like to reserve any


      19        time that I may have for rebuttal.  I know


      20        there's a number of issues that are going to be


      21        raised, particularly as it relates to parking.


      22        Parking is the big issue on this thing.  I know


      23        that St. Vincent's is going to provide a lot of


      24        information about it, and I respectfully request


      25        an opportunity to be able to respond to that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Rubin.


       2             What we'll do is we'll gauge the for and


       3        the opposition and see what we have when we get


       4        finished.


       5             MR. RUBIN:  Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  So we'll get back to you.


       7             Thank you.


       8             Our next speaker is Mr. Bill Curtis,


       9        followed by Donald Ward, followed by John


      10        Winkler.


      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good afternoon.


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon, council


      14        members.


      15             I'm Bill Curtis.  I have an address of


      16        2107 Hendricks Avenue, Jacksonville, 32207.


      17             I just wanted to speak to some of the


      18        misinformation that's been disseminated out


      19        there about the parking requirements that some


      20        people think should be required under the zoning


      21        code.


      22             By our calculations, it would have been


      23        something around 118 parking places, and the


      24        site plan calls for something in the 70s,


      25        between 74 and 77.  I forget the exact number,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        but some of what's been disseminated to the


       2        people in the neighborhood is -- is a number far


       3        exceeding what actually is required.


       4             And in my time when I worked here at the


       5        General Counsel's Office and since I've been out


       6        and had a couple of handfuls of opportunities,


       7        but -- to be before these commissions, I've only


       8        seen a few bad decisions made.  And usually when


       9        a bad decision is made, it -- there is some


      10        misinformation or disinformation that's been


      11        disseminated among those that are in opposition


      12        to the project.


      13             So I would just urge that you do discuss


      14        with the staff, who have looked into this at


      15        great length and still approve the project, and


      16        also those in the community that do support the


      17        project, and -- and give it your own support.


      18             We appreciate your help and consideration.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      20             MR. CURTIS:  Thanks.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Our next speaker is Donald


      22        Ward, followed by John Winkler.


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Do you mind if I deferred


      24        my comments until after St. Vincent's and


      25        Villa Riva have made their comments?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  I can move you to the last


       2        of the three-minute speakers, I can do that.


       3        That's all I can do.


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That would be fine.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  John Winkler, followed by


       6        Bill Lee.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      10             John Winkler, 2515 Oak Street.


      11             I have been uniformly opposed to


      12        Doctors Village since I first learned about it,


      13        when it was coming before the Jacksonville


      14        Historic Preservation Commission, and the real


      15        reason for being opposed to it is that it is


      16        simply too intense of a use for too small a land


      17        area in the middle of a mixed-use area that's


      18        largely residential.


      19             We have 58,000 square feet of new


      20        development that would be put on .87 acres, the


      21        existing house is roughly 4,000 square feet, we


      22        have a 90 percent lot coverage, and yet we only


      23        provide a total of 69 parking spaces.


      24             One of the possible uses for all 58,000


      25        square feet is general office space.  According





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to the computations for parking under the


       2        current part 6, this leaves a deficit on the


       3        order of 150 spaces.


       4             Even under the present proposed overlay,


       5        which is supposed to be introduced in a week, we


       6        need 154 spaces, and yet there are only


       7        69 spaces that are available.


       8             The problem here is that the on-street


       9        parking in this area is already being used in


      10        large part by both existing small businesses,


      11        most of which are in converted houses, as well


      12        as by the residents, and that -- you simply


      13        can't dump an additional 100 or 80 cars onto the


      14        street without it grossly affecting both the


      15        ability of people to park and the traffic


      16        congestion that already exists in this area.


      17             We're talking about Stockton Street, which


      18        is a major, major thoroughfare that comes in off


      19        of I-10, down into Riverside Avenue.  Another


      20        intersection on that same block is the Barrs


      21        intersection with Riverside, which is the main


      22        entrance to St. Vincent's Hospital.


      23             Already Riverside Avenue is a major


      24        thoroughfare for ingress and egress out of


      25        downtown for the Riverside and Avondale areas.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        The addition of another 80 to 100 to 200 people


       2        attempting to find parking spaces in order to


       3        see their doctors, going around and around the


       4        block, is simply too much, too intensive.


       5             Basically, this project needs to be reduced


       6        in size to approximately half of what it is in


       7        order for it to work in this area.


       8             Thank you very much.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      10             Our next speaker is Bill Lee.  Mr. Lee will


      11        be followed by Lisa Miller.


      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I have two overheads.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.


      16             I'm Bill Lee.  I'm the director of real


      17        estate and property management with


      18        St. Vincent's Health Care System.


      19             As their director, I am here representing


      20        St. Vincent's to oppose this Doctors Village,


      21        even though it's medical office space.


      22             Now, you might ask why.  We certainly want


      23        medical office space, but we -- we need to at


      24        least ensure that there's sufficient parking


      25        there.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And the reason why we can't come to a


       2        conclusion as to what the parking [sic] is


       3        really required is because of the strange


       4        formula for medical office space.  It refers to


       5        one space per doctor, it refers to one space for


       6        every two staff members, and it refers to one


       7        and a half parking spaces for each clinical room


       8        or exam room.


       9             What apparently happened from previous


      10        testimony is -- the applicant indicated that


      11        he's got 48,000 square feet of medical office


      12        space and that he would be providing


      13        12 physician offices.  That would mean each


      14        office is 4,000 square feet.


      15             Apparently staff used that and calculated,


      16        then, there's one physician for each


      17        4,000 square feet, and there's two staff for


      18        each 4,000 square feet, and there's three or


      19        four exam rooms.  I'm not quite sure how --


      20        what -- how they used [sic].


      21             But the fact of the matter is in the MGMA


      22        surveys, which is a gold standard for medical --


      23        it's a Medical Group Management Association


      24        survey.  Their average for single-specialty


      25        practices averages a physician in 1,895 square





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        feet, not 4,000, but 1,895.  Not two employees,


       2        but 6.19 full-time equivalent employee staff


       3        members.  A big difference, big difference.


       4        It's basically half.


       5             We need twice as much parking as -- I feel


       6        that was calculated by staff, and it's based on


       7        that information, I believe.  And that's why I


       8        believe it's come full force.  And, finally,


       9        it's now apparent it's a parking issue.


      10             I suggest in my calculations that they're


      11        going to be -- they're going to need 237 spaces,


      12        of which there's only 72 provided.


      13             Now, St. Vincent's is also willing to


      14        concede a third of the parking spaces because


      15        that's -- it's 35 percent right now -- is in the


      16        draft of the overlay, and it's my impression by


      17        talking to RAP and others that 35 percent credit


      18        is acceptable.  We're willing to accept that,


      19        but no more.


      20             The other overlay shows the required


      21        parking in that calculation, but that's the


      22        reason for the discrepancy between them.


      23             Twelve physicians' offices, if -- each one


      24        at 4,000 square feet does not provide one doctor


      25        and two staff members.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Thanks.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Lee.


       3             Our next speaker is Lisa Miller.


       4        Ms. Miller will be followed by James Minion.


       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.  Thank you.


       8             I am a resident of Herschel Street.  I live


       9        on the 2500 block of Herschel Street and --


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  If you'd go ahead and give


      11        us your name for the record.


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Oh, I'm sorry.


      13             It's Lisa Miller, and I own a house at


      14        Barrs and Herschel.  This is about a block away


      15        from the proposed site.


      16             I wanted to say that we're already having a


      17        difficult time finding enough parking places for


      18        those people who live there.  I don't believe


      19        that having a facility of this size is going to


      20        be a good impact on our neighborhood.


      21             There already is a lot of people that


      22        traverse the neighborhood, and certainly there's


      23        a problem with the parking sites, but people do


      24        have to come and go from the facility and that


      25        creates a lot of traffic in and out.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And so I just wanted to say that I was not


       2        in favor of this.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


       4             MS. MILLER:  Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Our next speaker is James


       6        Minion, followed by -- I think it's Mr. White.


       7        I can't quite pronounce -- make out the first


       8        name.


       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      12             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      13             My name is James Minion of 2525 Forbes


      14        Street.  I live within a couple of blocks of


      15        this development.


      16             And I would like to say, ladies and


      17        gentlemen, that the current zoning code would


      18        allow for the kind of development that is being


      19        proposed here.  Doctors' offices and similar


      20        retail uses are currently allowed under the CRO


      21        zoning code, which is what we have on the


      22        property today.


      23             I don't think there's any -- been any


      24        compelling argument made to -- for you-all to


      25        change the zoning code for the benefit of this





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        development.  Let's not let the PUD process


       2        become a panacea for projects that don't meet


       3        requirements to go through anyway.


       4             The parking difficulty is real for -- is


       5        very real for Riverside, and there have been


       6        plenty of 90 percent lot coverage developments


       7        that have been able to meet that, and we have


       8        to --


       9             And with regard to the very important


      10        legacy work going into the overlay for Riverside


      11        Avondale, which we do need, I think this --


      12        approving this kind of a project does compete


      13        with those standards, and as I -- the original


      14        proposal of this project was 45 feet, and there


      15        is -- there's currently, sir, as you know, a


      16        moratorium for projects to be 35 feet.  So we


      17        can get a compromise on the height of the


      18        building.  I believe we can get a compromise on


      19        some of the capacity of this lot.


      20             And I just don't believe that any


      21        compelling argument has been really made to --


      22        for you-all to change the law in favor of this


      23        one development, and I believe that as --


      24        originally -- as originally proposed, a lot of


      25        their -- there's some support and there's some





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        approvals here and there, but as the neighbors


       2        began to get the word about this project and the


       3        nature of the project, I think you saw a dissent


       4        start to rise and maybe some of the vote totals


       5        went down, and I think that's -- that's the


       6        momentum that we have now.


       7             Mr. Lee made some compelling arguments


       8        about neighboring parking.  We have to decide


       9        going forward how much public parking are we


      10        going to allow to subsidize new developments,


      11        especially in a pretty -- very dense


      12        neighborhood that we already have.


      13             We do need infill developments.  I would


      14        even support the notion that this particular


      15        property probably needs redevelopment, but we


      16        have to -- we have the opportunity here to


      17        govern the nature of that development, not just


      18        for this particular project but for this entire


      19        Stockton Street corridor going forward.


      20             And I appreciate your consideration on this


      21        matter, and I do encourage a "no" vote on


      22        2007-1248.


      23             Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      25             Mr. -- I believe it's Mr. White, followed





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        by Donald Ward.


       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  It is Mr. White.  Good.  I'm


       4        glad it's not Ms. White.  I would have been in a


       5        lot of trouble.


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  You did fine.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.


       9             My name is Ron White.  I live at 2364


      10        Riverside Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida, and


      11        that is in the Villa Riva complex at the


      12        townhomes in the front.


      13             Just before the meeting, my understanding


      14        is that an e-mail went out that Mr. Rubin and


      15        our president of our association worked out some


      16        kind of a deal that there would be no parking


      17        put on the Stock- -- the Villa Riva side of


      18        Stockton Street.  I don't know how that happened


      19        since I don't believe Mr. Rubin has the


      20        authority to put or not put parking there.


      21             I think that -- and then I believe that an


      22        e-mail was sent to you, Mr. Corrigan.  It said


      23        that we withdrew our opposition to that.


      24             Well, first of all, I don't withdraw my


      25        opposition.  And, secondly, I would think,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        unless you can guarantee us that there will be


       2        no parking on the Villa Riva side of Stockton


       3        Street, no parking spaces put there, even after


       4        this has come to fruition, if it does, then --


       5        then I would say that we are all still in


       6        opposition of it.


       7             I don't know how Mr. Rubin thinks that the


       8        City would not use that property, and I am


       9        certain that you guys -- it is City


      10        right-of-way, and you can do with it as you


      11        please.  We would prefer that the parking not be


      12        put there, and that's -- and --


      13             And I don't know how to calculate the


      14        numbers for the number of parking spaces.  I


      15        have no idea what's right or what's wrong,


      16        whether Mr. Winkler's calculations are right or


      17        whether Mr. Rubin's calculations are right or


      18        whether the council's calculations are right.  I


      19        just know that I live there and the amount of


      20        traffic and the lack of parking spaces that we


      21        already have is almost unbearable.


      22             The amount of people that come down


      23        Stockton Street is just -- is tremendous, and


      24        they're either turning right or turning left.


      25        And once this is in place, I think it will just





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        increase that amount of traffic tenfold.


       2             In addition, I'm not sure about the


       3        15 spaces that they're talking about on the


       4        other side.  I guess we're going to hear about


       5        that, but -- then we're talking about cutting


       6        down large oak trees and infrastructure that


       7        would have to be changed to make that happen, so


       8        my opposition is please, please don't vote for


       9        it.


      10             Thank you.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      12             We have Donald Ward, and I've now received


      13        Tim Volpe, Russell Newton, and Ben Weaver.


      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Donald Ward.


      16        I own the property that is to the east of the


      17        said project.


      18             Two points:  Number one is I've served in


      19        this medical community known as St. Vincent's


      20        Hospital for a number of years.  I served on the


      21        for-profit arm of the hospital and was involved


      22        in a lot of the decisions that, you know, had


      23        degrees of property involved in it, and I -- all


      24        I can tell you is I can look across the street


      25        and any improvements would be welcomed to this





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        area.


       2             I think that the type of facility that's


       3        being proposed warrants us to look at it very,


       4        very closely, and I think it's what's already in


       5        the community.


       6             St. Vincent's, over the years, has been the


       7        one that has really moved out through all of


       8        that community.  And if anybody has created this


       9        congestion, you've got to point the finger in


      10        that direction.  So perhaps we ought to go back


      11        to St. Vincent's and ask them for a solution to


      12        some of these parking problems.


      13             Villa Riva is another interesting one, and


      14        I'd like to point this out, and you may go back


      15        to your records and verify this.


      16             When I bought my property, I had to change


      17        the zoning.  And in so doing, I limited myself


      18        to a business office with five parking spaces,


      19        in which I carved out on my property all of


      20        those parking spaces.


      21             There are several other opportunities to


      22        add some parking spaces around -- they're very


      23        similar to what has been done by St. Vincent's


      24        Hospital.


      25             Now, I particularly point this out to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Villa Riva because it sort of agitates me.  When


       2        we were in the discussion, I had opposition to


       3        adding this business and these parking spaces


       4        even though it was on my own property.


       5             The thing that I remember very distinctly


       6        is that it was voiced to the opposition that


       7        Villa Riva, along the sidewalk there, all the


       8        way to the river, was going to open that up, and


       9        it was part of their approval to get their


      10        zoning, that that would become public parking


      11        and ease some of these parking problems.


      12             I've had nobody from Villa Riva or anybody


      13        else come back and volunteer to, you know,


      14        contribute to this.  And I think it takes all of


      15        us, and I think if we all work together we could


      16        resolve this issue.


      17             Thank you.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      19             Our next speaker is Tim Volpe, followed by


      20        Russell Newton.


      21             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.  Thank you,


      24        Mr. Chairman.


      25             My name is Tim Volpe.  I live at 2358





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Riverside Avenue, which is unit 206, part of the


       2        Villa Riva Condominium Association.


       3             I know we've had a little controversy here


       4        about what's going on with respect to Villa


       5        Riva.  I'm here tonight -- I have Russell Newton


       6        with me.  Mr. Newton is the chairman of the


       7        Villa Riva Residents Association.  We've been


       8        working together to try to negotiate an


       9        arrangement with Mr. Rubin with respect to the


      10        parking situation regarding his project.


      11             As we understand it and as it was presented


      12        to the folks at Villa Riva, the parking that is


      13        currently required by the code will not be


      14        afforded by the property on which Mr. Rubin


      15        intends to build his building.


      16             The concern that was expressed -- the


      17        primary concern that was expressed by the


      18        Villa Riva residents was that there would


      19        therefore be a use of the east side of Stockton


      20        Street, between Riverside Avenue and the river,


      21        for parking.


      22             As Mr. Newton will lay out for you all our


      23        intentions with respect to that portion of that


      24        property which we currently maintain on behalf


      25        of the Villa Riva association at no cost to the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        City of Jacksonville -- a portion of that land


       2        is what we intend to do -- what we intend to


       3        improve and beautify with a landscaping project


       4        that is being done at the expense of --


       5        completely at the expense of the Villa Riva


       6        residents.


       7             So the primary concern that we had was the


       8        parking on the east side of Stockton Street.


       9        And in our discussions with Mr. Rubin, he agreed


      10        that he would neither seek nor support the


      11        notion that that greenspace, as it's presently


      12        used now, would be modified or changed in any


      13        way, now or in the future, for the use of


      14        parking spaces.


      15             Now, on behalf of the association, which is


      16        all -- the only entity that Mr. Newton and I can


      17        speak on behalf of here this evening.  From our


      18        perspective, that's all -- the primary concern


      19        of the Villa Riva association.


      20             We don't purport to speak -- as you have


      21        already heard from one of our residents, we


      22        don't purport to speak on behalf of all of the


      23        other residents of the condominium itself.


      24        There are over 66 units in the high-rise, and


      25        then eight townhomes that are immediately





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        bordering along Riverside Avenue.


       2             But from our perspective, the compromise


       3        that we've arranged with Mr. Rubin, that


       4        those -- that greenspace would not be used as


       5        parking and that there would be -- that he would


       6        not support the City's transformation of that


       7        greenspace into parking, from our perspective,


       8        solved our concern.


       9             And, therefore, I think this afternoon,


      10        Mr. Corrigan -- Chairman Corrigan, you've got an


      11        e-mail from Mr. Newton indicating that -- at


      12        least on behalf of the association, we no longer


      13        are expressing our opposition.


      14             Thank you.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      16             Our next speaker is Russell Newton, who


      17        will be followed by Ben Weaver, and Mr. Weaver


      18        is our last speaker that I have.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, and thank


      21        you for this opportunity to speak to you.


      22             I'm the president or chairman of the


      23        Villa Riva Condominium Association, and


      24        Mr. Volpe has explained the makeup of that


      25        condominium association to you, and he's





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        basically spoken of everything that I had


       2        intended to say with a slight addition.


       3             I am the one who has been directly


       4        behind -- but with a lot of support -- the


       5        landscaping project for the Villa Riva


       6        condominium property and association, which we


       7        also included in our thinking the right-of-way


       8        on that one block length of Stockton Street,


       9        between Riverside Avenue and the river.


      10             We had intended to landscape that entire


      11        area in a beautification project.  And when we


      12        heard about the development project across


      13        the -- Riverside Avenue, we were somewhat


      14        disturbed by the fact that it appeared that


      15        there might be an effort to eliminate the


      16        right-of-way grass area, and that was the nature


      17        of our primary objection.


      18             I think Mr. Volpe has expressed the rest of


      19        my feelings thoroughly, and I thank you very


      20        much for allowing us to speak tonight.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      22             Our next -- our final speaker is Mr. Ben


      23        Weaver.


      24             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      25             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, ladies and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        gentlemen.


       2             Ben Weaver, 2358 Forbes Street.


       3             I rise in opposition to 2007-1248 as a


       4        resident of the community, specifically because


       5        of the fact that we're looking to rezone a --


       6        1662 Stockton from a CRO to a PUD.


       7             There is -- it doesn't fit into the


       8        historical character of the neighborhood, the


       9        project that's being planned.  The road


      10        frontage, the lack of parking all carry into an


      11        addition with two-way parking and two-way


      12        traffic we now deal with on College and Post.


      13        We now have this extended to us as well.


      14             We're not opposed, the residents, to


      15        additional development.  This is -- as long as


      16        they can develop this under the law -- under the


      17        guidelines of a CRO, then we would not have


      18        problems with that.


      19             There was the mention of Villa Riva's


      20        residents.  Just to catch up a few things, their


      21        greenspace will be spared, but, of course, our


      22        driveways and street parking will not.


      23             In reference to the property owner who


      24        mentioned that he had two carved-out parking


      25        spaces, that's what the market demanded.  And





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        so, therefore, we, in the market, demand


       2        likewise for this property, that they carve out


       3        some parking spaces.


       4             Finally, as Five Points has grown and the


       5        gentrification continues, the historical


       6        properties which decorate our community become


       7        fewer and fewer, especially when projects like


       8        the -- or homes like the Christmas House are


       9        used as pawns to influence power.


      10             So what we're looking for now is


      11        specifically to level out the development that


      12        goes on in Riverside.  There's been quite a bit,


      13        quite an expansion in traffic, and even to the


      14        point where -- when JTA was considering bringing


      15        a trolley down through Riverside, they were


      16        happy to make all kinds of concessions because


      17        of the -- or figure out ways to reroute it


      18        because of the amount of traffic on Riverside


      19        that's increased, has experienced the increase.


      20             So I thank you.  I urge a "no" vote.  Have


      21        a good evening.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      23             That is the final speaker I have.


      24             Mr. Rubin, you originally spoke -- I have


      25        it down as 14 minutes in favor of it and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        15 minutes against, so that leaves about a


       2        minute or so to rebut what's been said.


       3             (Mr. Rubin approaches the podium.)


       4             MR. RUBIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I'll


       5        try to be brief.


       6             As it relates to Mr. Winkler, he misquoted


       7        the parking requirements.  I urge you to ask


       8        staff as to what the parking requirements are


       9        for this project and how they're applied to


      10        calculations associated with this project.


      11             Mr. Winkler is also the person who --


      12        although it didn't get mentioned here, I was --


      13        there was a petition that was filed and


      14        withdrawn by the association.  It had lots of


      15        names on it of, you know, the power brokers of


      16        Jacksonville.  That may have found its way into


      17        the record.  It has been withdrawn.  It's always


      18        been withdrawn.  And Mr. Winkler actually filed


      19        that without authorization from Villa Riva, and


      20        I'd ask you to verify that by -- from either


      21        Mr. Volpe or Mr. Newton.  I think they intended


      22        to mention that and probably got carried away


      23        with other responses.


      24             As far as Mr. Lee's comments from


      25        St. Vincent's is concerned, the MGMA is an





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        organization that provides information to


       2        doctors for insurance.  It has nothing to do


       3        with establishing parameters for parking in


       4        medical offices.


       5             And, in fact, all of the numbers that


       6        Mr. Lee pontificated on were based on --


       7        clearly -- and he filed this at the last LUZ


       8        hearing -- based on FTE, which means full-time


       9        equivalent.  So that's assuming that every


      10        doctor is working full-time, which we all know


      11        they don't, and it means that every practice is


      12        operating at full efficiency and full capacity.


      13             So whether you have twelve offices or


      14        twenty offices or three offices, it's assuming


      15        everything is operating at the max.  And we all


      16        know -- and, again, we urge you to ask staff


      17        about this.


      18             When you have a number of offices together,


      19        you have to look at the project as a whole


      20        because there will be peaks and valleys, and one


      21        practice might be at full capacity when another


      22        is not even there.  Some doctors only work two


      23        or three days a week.  So that was also taken


      24        into consideration in this analysis, and so the


      25        numbers are grossly overstated.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Why are they overstated?  Because we're a


       2        competitor with St. Vincent's, and many times


       3        you see people that have an agenda, such as a


       4        competitive issue, that are going to come before


       5        the board and push their competitive issue.


       6             I don't believe that Mr. Lee is interested


       7        in having medical offices directly across the


       8        street from hospital medical offices.


       9             In addition to that, our offices are


      10        boutique offices.  They're designed to draw


      11        high-end doctors from practices around the


      12        country that are going to be able to improve our


      13        community and improve the way that medicine is


      14        practiced here.  We need better doctors here.


      15        We all know there's a shortage.


      16             The hospital has institutional settings


      17        where they're basically cramming doctors into


      18        little boxes, and so their requirements within


      19        the hospital are going to be completely


      20        different.


      21             They also mentioned their family practice


      22        building, which is a 45,000-square-foot


      23        building, and they say that there's 250 square


      24        feet --


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  If you could wrap it up.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. RUBIN:  -- per parking space there.


       2             And in that situation, it's a family


       3        practice.  It's one practice, 45,000 square


       4        feet.  We're talking about 12 different


       5        practices.  And, again, it's the peaks and


       6        valleys.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Your time has


       8        expired.


       9             MR. RUBIN:  Thank you.


      10             So then I would just finish by saying that


      11        I would -- I do believe we've demonstrated more


      12        than enough need and compelling argument for


      13        this project.  And, again, I would ask you to


      14        refer to staff for additional information.


      15             Thank you for your consideration.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      17             Seeing no further speakers, we'll close


      18        that public hearing.


      19             We'll go to the Planning Department for


      20        their report.


      21             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


      22             Through the Chair, application for rezoning


      23        2007-1248 seeks to rezone the subject property


      24        from CRO and commercial neighborhood to PUD to


      25        allow for a mixed-use development.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             This development represents urban infill in


       2        the eyes of the Planning Department.  This is


       3        neighborhood-scale uses with medical offices.


       4        It's a very walkable environment.


       5             We looked at this.  We recognize the


       6        character of the neighborhood.  The development


       7        preserves a contributing historic single-family


       8        structure on the property, so there is some


       9        difficulty in complying with the strict letter


      10        of the parking regulations.  But, again, taken


      11        in the context of the neighborhood, the


      12        available on-street parking, also the proximity


      13        to mass transit routes and bus routes, we felt


      14        that this was appropriate infill and is


      15        consistent with the draft of the Riverside


      16        Avondale zoning overlay to this date.


      17             Additionally, the current part 6


      18        requirements of the zoning code in relation to


      19        parking do allow for reductions and parking


      20        credits, which this development does qualify


      21        irrespective of the draft overlay or the current


      22        proposed PUD.


      23             So we were looking, again, wholistically at


      24        this development.  This is eliminating two


      25        noncontributing office buildings and promoting a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        mixed-use development that will offer some


       2        retail, office uses.


       3             The medical office and the parking demands,


       4        I can get into the details of exactly,


       5        specifically what's required under the code and


       6        the breakdown as far as consistency with the --


       7        either the proposed overlay or through the


       8        current part 6 requirements.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.


      10             I actually want to clarify a couple of


      11        things to help the committee members understand.


      12             Mr. Volpe, if I could get you to come back


      13        up.


      14             (Mr. Volpe approaches the podium.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  There was a petition that I


      16        received in my office.  Actually, it did come


      17        from Mr. Winkler, as Mr. Rubin said.  I need


      18        you -- I think -- are you the representative


      19        from the homeowners association or --


      20             MR. VOLPE:  Well, it's really Mr. Newton,


      21        but I'm happy to answer any questions if I can.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Was the petition ever


      23        submitted by the Villa Riva group, to your


      24        knowledge?


      25             MR. VOLPE:  No.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             What happened was, we were working with


       2        Mr. Rubin with respect to this issue that I've


       3        described already for the committee.  We worked


       4        up until about one o'clock this afternoon.  I


       5        think he was leaving to come to the agenda


       6        meeting for this -- for this gathering.


       7             We did not know.  A petition had been


       8        prepared and was circulated within Villa Riva


       9        and was at the Villa Riva office.  And pursuant


      10        to earlier instructions that had been given


      11        apparently by another member of the committee in


      12        the -- within the community that had been


      13        considering this, the instruction was to try to


      14        get it into Mr. Winkler's hands for filing.


      15        That was something that Mr. Newton and I simply


      16        did not know.


      17             And so -- what I want to clarify, though,


      18        in fairness, is -- because you've heard from at


      19        least one other member of the community that


      20        they -- notwithstanding the view of the


      21        association, that this use is appropriate


      22        insofar as it does not put parking on that east


      23        side of Stockton, between Riverside and the


      24        river.  We obviously can't speak for each and


      25        every resident of the community.  We just can't





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        do so, but what we can do is speak on behalf of


       2        the association to describe to you what the


       3        association's primary concerns were.


       4             So we acknowledge that that petition was


       5        circulated.  The intention was that -- to the


       6        extent that our concerns were not addressed,


       7        that Mr. Newton would present it here to the


       8        committee.  That got short-circuited in the way


       9        that I've described, but we --


      10             I don't think, in fairness, both to


      11        Mr. Rubin and to the rest of the members -- the


      12        rest of the residents of Villa Riva, we


      13        certainly can't suggest to you that this is --


      14        that we have unanimity of thought.


      15             As we've suggested to Mr. Rubin, there are


      16        people within the community that do object to


      17        the density issues that are proposed in this


      18        development regardless of the issue with regard


      19        to the parking on Stockton Street.


      20             So I wanted to clarify that.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Another question for


      22        you.  I guess my confusion is, why does


      23        Villa Riva need assurances that there's not


      24        going to be parking on Stockton Street if this


      25        development is not going to have an impact on





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        parking in your area?


       2             MR. VOLPE:  I think that the concept is


       3        that it all -- in all likelihood will have an


       4        impact on parking if there's not sufficient


       5        parking on the site.


       6             The primary concern of the association is


       7        that part of the -- Stockton Street that we


       8        intend to beautify and improve with landscaping,


       9        and so we don't -- we take no issue one way or


      10        the other with regard to the concerns that


      11        others in the community are expressing about the


      12        fact that there may be excessive needs for


      13        parking outside the site itself.  We're simply


      14        focused on our small neck of the woods, if you


      15        will, there on Stockton Street.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  And does the association


      17        have a regular scheduled meeting or they meet on


      18        an as-needed type basis?


      19             MR. VOLPE:  We meet on an as-needed type


      20        basis.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      22             MR. VOLPE:  And, obviously, this has been


      23        somewhat of an ad hoc development because, in


      24        candor, nobody even conceived of the possibility


      25        to begin with.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I think Mr. Rubin has met on a couple of


       2        occasions at least with folks at Villa Riva, but


       3        nobody conceived of the possibility that the


       4        intention might be that inadequate parking on


       5        his site would result in that area of Stockton


       6        Street where we have a landscape plan being


       7        developed instead into parking spaces, and so I


       8        think that was the primary reason why there was


       9        quite a turnabout in the perspective of the


      10        folks at Villa Riva.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      12        Appreciate it.


      13             MR. VOLPE:  Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I've got a couple of


      15        questions for Planning, but I may be debating


      16        the bill, so I've probably got to yield the


      17        chair to my vice chair and do it from over


      18        there.


      19             So can you --


      20             (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Corrigan.


      22             MR. CORRIGAN:  Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.


      23             To the Planning Department, Mr. Rubin and


      24        several others asked for us to talk to you about


      25        the parking.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We have talked a lot -- in the previous


       2        meeting, we talked a lot about the


       3        characteristics of this project, the look, and


       4        the historic preservation approval, and


       5        everything else.  Really, it's come down to


       6        parking.


       7             Talk to me a little about, how did you come


       8        to approval of the parking number, what -- if


       9        there wasn't a PUD application, what would the


      10        parking requirement be for this particular


      11        development?


      12             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


      13             Through the chair to Councilman Corrigan,


      14        the parking requirements in this, again, were


      15        based on the permitted uses proposed under the


      16        written description.


      17             We looked at -- again, the revised written


      18        description describes 10,000 square feet of


      19        retail space, not including the contributing


      20        structure, which is about 3,400 square feet, and


      21        48,000 square feet of medical office.


      22             The 10,000 square feet of the retail space


      23        under the existing code as it is today would


      24        otherwise require 34 spaces.


      25             The 48,000 square feet of medical office --





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        now, this is unique because it's not based upon


       2        an exact square footage based on medical


       3        office.  Medical office, as previously


       4        indicated, is based on the number of doctors,


       5        the number of employees, and the number of exam


       6        rooms.


       7             So based on the testimony that was provided


       8        at the Planning Commission by the applicant,


       9        there were proposed to be essentially 12 office


      10        suites, three suites per floor, per each


      11        building.  That's on either side of the house in


      12        the middle.


      13             So we were looking at 12 office suites


      14        with, on average, one to two doctors per suite,


      15        with two to three employees per doctor, and


      16        approximately three exam rooms in each office


      17        suite.


      18             Breaking that down, we looked at basically


      19        18 spaces to be required for doctors, 30 spaces


      20        to be required for employees, and 54 spaces for


      21        the exam rooms.  That totaled 102 spaces, plus


      22        the approximate 33 -- 34 spaces for the retail,


      23        plus the 11 for the contributing structure, 44.


      24             So we had 102, plus about 44 spaces.


      25        That's about 146 spaces required under the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        conventional code with no parking credits and


       2        not contemplating the zoning overlay pending.


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


       4             When they gave you these numbers, did they


       5        give you the layout of the building or did they


       6        show you the suites?  Are they held accountable


       7        to those suites or --


       8             MR. KELLY:  The suites were provided -- I


       9        do believe we have copies of the floor plans in


      10        the file.  They were distributed at the Planning


      11        Commission, and it is consistent with the -- the


      12        floor plans are consistent with the parking


      13        calculations that we looked at.


      14             MR. CORRIGAN:  I guess one of my


      15        hesitations, committee members, is that we are


      16        asking developers more and more these days to


      17        give us exact details of what they're going to


      18        do, and it's difficult.  We're asking them to


      19        spend a great deal of money to do plans, and


      20        Mr. Rubin spent a lot of money on this project


      21        to do plans prior to -- to having approval of a


      22        zoning, and I have some concerns of whether


      23        we're going to have office suites as large as


      24        they say with as few rooms and all that stuff.


      25             I met with Dylan Reingold from the Office





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        of General Counsel and discussed it, and I think


       2        we're in consensus that maybe you ought to just


       3        look at straight commercial numbers, and what


       4        would the requirements be for straight -- or


       5        office commercial.


       6             And I guess my question to Sean -- to


       7        Mr. Kelly is, what -- if that was the case, what


       8        would the number be?


       9             If you had done 48,000 feet at office


      10        commercial, what would that number be?


      11             MR. KELLY:  Well, office typically


      12        generates more parking than standard retail


      13        parking.  So office is calculated --


      14             MR. CORRIGAN:  But keeping the 10,000 foot


      15        of retail.  I'm talking about -- instead of


      16        being a doctor's use, being a straight office


      17        commercial use, what would --


      18             MR. KELLY:  Well, if it was office, it


      19        would just be four per thousand, straight


      20        office, and that can vary from anything -- just


      21        a professional business, attorney's office, up


      22        to a call center.  It's kind of an arbitrary --


      23        well, it's a number that essentially is


      24        consistent with the need.


      25             We think that requirement can be excessive





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        in times, depending on the nature of the office


       2        use.


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  And, committee members, the


       4        reason I bring that question up is there's been


       5        a lot of reference to this proposed zoning


       6        overlay that we're getting ready to propose and


       7        everything else, and we've talked about that.


       8             And in this overlay, I was pretty adamant


       9        when I met with the steering committee and said,


      10        hey, we've got to have special requirements for


      11        doctors, we've got to have special requirements


      12        for everything else.  And the committee, with


      13        the help of the General Counsel's Office -- and


      14        Mr. Rubin was part of that discussion as well --


      15        finally said, look, you just need to have a


      16        straight office commercial.  Don't do special


      17        characteristics for doctors' offices and


      18        everything else because it gets too confusing.


      19             I've now come to support that notion, but


      20        if you're going to look at that and reference


      21        what Mr. Rubin said earlier, then you've got to


      22        look at that in this project as well because


      23        that's really the only true definition you can


      24        have, and we use it many times in what we're


      25        doing.  And if it's a -- it's four spaces for





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        every thousand square feet -- is that -- I think


       2        that's what you said, Mr. Kelly, right?


       3             That adds up to -- I don't know what that


       4        adds up to.  What is it, a hundred and -- what


       5        was the total number?  I don't have a


       6        calculator.


       7             MR. KELLY:  I believe it would be about


       8        192.


       9             MR. CORRIGAN:  Yeah, which -- if you take


      10        the 192, plus 34, plus 11, you're getting up


      11        into a high 200 number, and this project


      12        proposes 72 spaces, I think -- is that right?


      13             And as much as everybody likes this project


      14        and it went through this committee and we all


      15        talked about how much you liked it, it got


      16        rereferred at council because we hoped there


      17        would be a compromise.  And the reality is, the


      18        only real compromise on this is reducing the


      19        number of square feet of office or medical


      20        that's going to be in this complex.  And based


      21        on that -- that's the only real solution.  I


      22        mean, it's --


      23             The overlay also talks -- and we didn't get


      24        into this, but the overlay also is going to talk


      25        about setbacks and everything else that will be





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        there.  There aren't any setbacks in this


       2        particular project, so you've got to figure out


       3        how much you're willing to overlook on this


       4        project.


       5             I was really hopeful that -- and I


       6        appreciate Mr. Rubin and St. Vincent's and RAP


       7        and Villa Riva especially for their involvement


       8        in this and doing all this work, but the reality


       9        is it's still too intensive of a project to put


      10        in this particular area based on any parking


      11        calculations you use.  If you used


      12        office/commercial under the current code, or if


      13        you use office/commercial under the proposed


      14        overlay we're going to talk about, both of them


      15        are too excessive.


      16             And I guess I'm a little critical of the


      17        Planning Department's approval of that number


      18        because it really is too intense and will spill,


      19        and that's the reason I asked Mr. Volpe the


      20        question.  It's going to spill people out.


      21             And Villa Riva had a concern, and I


      22        appreciate their removal of their objection, but


      23        they wouldn't have wanted the condition that he


      24        not do this if it wasn't going to create a


      25        problem in their neighborhood.  And they're





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        really admitting on the record, that, hey, it's


       2        going to be a problem; we just don't want the


       3        problem to come over here.


       4             And that's disappointing, and I hoped it


       5        would be different.  And I told the council when


       6        I rereferred it that, you know, we wouldn't move


       7        forward if there was a solution that was great


       8        for the community, and at this point it's not


       9        great for the community.  And I can't support


      10        it, and I would encourage my fellow colleagues


      11        on the council to not support it.


      12             Having said that --


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do you want to close the


      14        public hearing?


      15             MR. CORRIGAN:  We already closed the public


      16        hearing.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      18             MR. CORRIGAN:  I'll make a motion to deny


      19        2007-1248.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  There's a motion.


      21             Is there a second?


      22             MS. JONES:  Second.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and a second.


      24             Discussion?


      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Did you want to say anything


       2        else, Mr. Corrigan?


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  No.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no discussion,


       5        please open the ballot.


       6             (Committee ballot opened.)


       7             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. SHAD:  (Votes nay.)


      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      11             (Committee ballot closed.)


      12             MS. LAHMEUR:  Three yeas, one nay.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, it would be


      14        deferred.


      15             Mr. Corrigan.


      16             MR. CORRIGAN:  Mr. Vice Chairman, I would


      17        respectfully request to Mr. Shad, if he might be


      18        willing -- if we reconsidered -- to vote to at


      19        least get it out of committee.


      20             MR. SHAD:  Okay.


      21             MR. CORRIGAN:  Okay.  I'll move to


      22        reconsider.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is there a second?


      24             MS. JONES:  Second.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  A second.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Any discussion?


       2             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor of


       4        the reconsideration say aye.


       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  And is there a motion to


       7        reconsider?


       8             MR. CORRIGAN:  I'll, once again, move my --


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  On the bill as


      10        reconsidered?


      11             MR. CORRIGAN:  I'll make an amendment to


      12        deny the application, 2007-1248.


      13             MS. JONES:  Second.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and a second.


      15             Any discussion?


      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the


      18        ballot.


      19             (Committee ballot opened.)


      20             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      24             (Committee ballot closed.)


      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       2        denied 2007-1248.


       3             (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Committee members, we


       5        are now on item 29, 2007-1308.  We will open


       6        that public hearing.


       7             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


       8        public hearing at the council -- the council


       9        president is also the district council


      10        representative's request [sic].


      11             Number 30, 2007-1310.  We will open that


      12        public hearing.


      13             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      14        public hearing.


      15             We are on the top of page 10, 2007-1311.


      16        We will open that public hearing.


      17             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      18        public hearing.


      19             We will open 2007-1312.  Seeing no


      20        speakers, we'll continue that one.


      21             2007-1350.  We'll open that public hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      23        one.  That will actually come up at our next LUZ


      24        meeting.


      25             Item 34, 2008-11.  We'll open that public





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hearing.  We have several speakers.


       2             I have heard from the applicant by phone


       3        that he was seeking a deferral.  I do have a


       4        Hilde Howell, who is here for Terry Moore.


       5             Ms. Howell, would you like to come up and


       6        address that?


       7             (Ms. Howell approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're going to open that


       9        public hearing.  Let me -- that public hearing


      10        is open.


      11             MS. HOWELL:  While there might have been


      12        some miscommunication between your assistant and


      13        myself -- we spoke subsequent to Mr. Moore's


      14        conversations with Councilman Shad and yourself,


      15        and I was concerned that perhaps the matter had


      16        not been deferred and I wanted to come down and


      17        make sure that Mr. Moore did not need to come


      18        down here.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  When the applicant


      20        requests deferral, we always do that.


      21             MS. HOWELL:  Okay.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  It is a public hearing, so


      23        the people that are here -- I have several


      24        speakers that are here -- you are welcome to


      25        speak, but your comments would probably be more





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        effective at the time that we'll take it up.  We


       2        apologize about the late notice on the deferral,


       3        so --


       4             Ms. Moore -- Ms. Howell -- excuse me --


       5        thank you for being here.


       6             MS. HOWELL:  Thank you.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  If there is people that


       8        speak against it, then you, obviously, will have


       9        an opportunity to come back up, so --


      10             MS. HOWELL:  Okay.  Thank you very much.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      12             I have several speakers.  Jay Abraham,


      13        Norman Abraham, Michael Seashole, Holt Graves,


      14        and Betty Ann Graves are all here.


      15             Is there anyone that needs to speak


      16        tonight?


      17             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  When is it deferred to?


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  It will be deferred for two


      19        weeks.  It will be heard on --


      20             MR. KELLY:  March 4th.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  March 4th?


      22             MR. KELLY:  (Nods head.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  March 4th.


      24             I will be happy, after -- following this


      25        meeting, to make sure everybody that's here in





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        opposition gets updated on that, and I'll just


       2        have to record that as ex-parte communication,


       3        so -- I'll be happy to do that.


       4             MR. GRAVES:  (Indicating.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Graves, come on up.


       6             MR. GRAVES:  Is there someplace we can call


       7        the day of the meeting --


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Come on up here.  Do it on


       9        the record, though.


      10             (Mr. Graves approaches the podium.)


      11             MR. GRAVES:  I'm Holt Graves, 4437 Herschel


      12        Street.


      13             Is there a number or someone we can call


      14        the day of the meeting to get an update whether


      15        it's been deferred or -- see whether everybody


      16        needs to come down here or not?


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.  And I apologize.


      18        This is in my district, as you know, Holt, very


      19        well.


      20             It was a last-minute decision to do it.


      21        And normally our office would contact the people


      22        that we have on record.  And you, obviously, are


      23        on record on this.  And we apologize about


      24        dragging you down here, but it was --


      25             When the applicant requests deferral, we





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        typically honor it.  And it was -- it happened


       2        between the agenda meeting and the start of this


       3        meeting, so -- if it happened before or even at


       4        the agenda, we would have called -- contacted


       5        you, so we apologize about dragging you down


       6        here for this.


       7             MR. GRAVES:  And -- second question.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


       9             MR. GRAVES:  Can we ask for a deferral if


      10        we have conflicts with our -- our neighborhood


      11        group?


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Typically -- you can always


      13        ask, yes.  You can definitely ask.  Very seldom


      14        do you get it.


      15             MR. GRAVES:  Okay.  Thank you.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      17             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  Come on down.  If you


      19        want to speak, come on down and give your name


      20        and address.


      21             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      22             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Michael


      23        Seashole.


      24             I signed an address card to speak.  Would I


      25        still be able to do that on this motion?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  The public is welcome


       2        to speak, as I said.  It's just -- it typically


       3        is more effective the day we're going to take a


       4        vote on the bill.


       5             MR. SEASHOLE:  Thank you, Councilman.


       6             My name is Michael Seashole, and I live at


       7        2031 Woodmere Circle.


       8             My family has lived in the same home for


       9        over 50 years, two blocks from the old Graham's


      10        Boatyard.  I, and the majority of our


      11        neighborhood, originally opposed the rezoning of


      12        the boatyard to the condominium development.


      13        The only ones favoring it were the developers,


      14        Julian LeCraw and company from Atlanta, the


      15        lawyers representing the buyers and developers,


      16        and the City Council.


      17             This was approved at a height limit before


      18        and is now being asked to be changed.  I oppose


      19        any increase in height to any of the proposed


      20        buildings now and in the future.


      21             Thank you for your consideration.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.  I appreciate


      23        it.  Thanks for coming down.


      24             Any other speaker cards I have need to


      25        speak tonight?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, we will


       3        continue that public hearing with no further


       4        action.


       5             Committee members, we're on top of page 11,


       6        2008-22.  We'll open that public hearing.


       7             We have Tom Ingram, who is here.


       8             (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Ingram, good evening.


      10        How are you?


      11             MR. INGRAM:  Good evening, Councilman.


      12             Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue, Suite


      13        400.


      14             I'm here representing the applicant,


      15        Flagler Development Company, and also here is


      16        Mack McCuller of Smith Hulsey, representing


      17        Baptist Hospital.


      18             This is a companion PUD rezoning to a


      19        notice of proposed change that the council


      20        recently approved.  And it would, among other


      21        things, increase the maximum allowed number of


      22        hospital beds from 250 beds to 500 in Flagler


      23        Center, which is at the -- it's at St. Augustine


      24        Road and Interstate 95.


      25             It also increases office by 200,000 square





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        feet and increases multifamily by 150 dwelling


       2        units and allows multifamily uses to be placed


       3        on two locations on the eastern portion of


       4        Flagler Center.


       5             These uses are still less in terms of


       6        traffic impacts than what the project was


       7        originally approved for when it was first


       8        approved, and adding some of these multifamily


       9        uses will improve the internal capture of the


      10        project.


      11             And Mack and I would be happy to answer any


      12        questions you may have about this project.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      14             MR. INGRAM:  Thank you.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  I see no questions for


      16        Mr. Ingram, so we'll close that public hearing.


      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.


      18             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      20        on 2007-22 -- I'm sorry, 2008-22.


      21             We'll go to the Planning Department.


      22             MR. CROFTS:  (Shakes head.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  They have no input.


      24             MR. CROFTS:  There's no amendment on this,


      25        sir.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,


       2        Mr. Crofts.


       3             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,


       4        record the vote.


       5             (Committee ballot opened.)


       6             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      10             (Committee ballot closed.)


      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you just


      13        approved 2008-22.


      14             2008-23.  We'll open that public hearing.


      15             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      16        public hearing.


      17             2008-24.  We will open that public


      18        hearing.  We have several -- two speakers,


      19        Mike Herzberg and Margaret Meldman [sic], I


      20        guess.


      21             I apologize if I butchered your name.


      22             (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, sir.


      24             MR. HERZBERG:  Good evening, sir.  Thank


      25        you very much for the opportunity.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I'm representing the Fraternal Order of


       2        Police in this application.


       3             What is being sought here is a planned unit


       4        development for the FOP in an effort to provide


       5        really what is a transition between the FOP


       6        Lodge and the other commercial uses that are


       7        oriented along Beach Boulevard and the


       8        residential community south of this property.


       9             If I may, I have a couple of things I


      10        wanted to put on the overhead just to give you a


      11        little depiction of the area if it would be all


      12        right.


      13             Can I project from here or --


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  Go back to the


      15        microphone.


      16             MR. HERZBERG:  Okay.  This is actually a


      17        photograph that's in your packet.  And, I


      18        apologize, I can't see it on this monitor here,


      19        but I can see it on that monitor there.


      20             And, really, these are two photographs, one


      21        taken along FOP Way and one taken along Sharon


      22        Terrace, of the fencing that the Fraternal Order


      23        of Police has constructed in this area.


      24             This PUD, really, is for a very limited


      25        number of uses.  Ideally, it is to provide





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        overflow parking for the opportunities -- or the


       2        events that occur at the FOP Lodge.


       3             Regularly, there is sufficient parking on


       4        the property for all of the uses; however,


       5        during certain special events or roll call there


       6        are times at which they exceed the existing


       7        number of parking spaces on the property and


       8        require additional off-street parking areas.


       9             Rather than pave and create a commercial


      10        parking lot immediately adjacent to a


      11        residential neighborhood, the FOP has sought to


      12        create this area, again, for temporary overflow


      13        only and, really, in keeping with the


      14        residential character of the area.


      15             Now, later on you will see some photographs


      16        which depict the 6-foot fences in the area.


      17             This, again, is the property along FOP


      18        Way.  As you can see, there are no sidewalks on


      19        FOP Way, at least on this side of the property.


      20             This is a fence and some of the existing


      21        trees that remain along FOP Way on that -- what


      22        would be the eastern boundary of the subject


      23        property.


      24             The next picture is, again, a closer


      25        photograph of that same property line showing





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the right-of-way.  The fence abuts the


       2        right-of-way but reserves the trees -- or


       3        maintains the trees along there.


       4             Next side.


       5             This is the opposite side of the street.


       6        Effectively, the FOP has cleared some of that


       7        material in the right-of-way in order to put the


       8        fence in without trying to harm the trees.


       9             But, again, left to its own devices there,


      10        this is the vegetation that will grow up, the


      11        palmetto and the like.  There is a 6-foot fence


      12        behind that vegetation.  And, again, I'll show


      13        you that on a map a little later.


      14             This is actually along Sharon Terrace with


      15        the adjacent property owner.  You can see he has


      16        some very large oak trees which actually seem to


      17        screen or buffer or create the transition


      18        between his residence and this, again, temporary


      19        overflow parking area.


      20             Next slide.


      21             This is actually on the rear.  This is


      22        looking from the FOP Lodge into the backyard of


      23        the adjacent property owner.  As you can see,


      24        the adjacent property owner has this slatted


      25        vinyl fence there.  The wood fence, really, is a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        little more comparable to what you'll see as


       2        being typical in the neighborhood.


       3             This is a photograph -- I can't make out


       4        what that is.


       5             This is a photograph listed as number 2,


       6        and it will correspond with a map at the end,


       7        but this is an example of some of the fences


       8        that are in the front yards of adjacent


       9        properties, really very, very close proximity to


      10        the subject site.


      11             This is another close-up just showing that


      12        fence, again, in proximity --


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Your time has expired.


      14             MR. HERZBERG:  Okay.  I'll submit the rest


      15        of those photos for your review.


      16             Again, really what this is an attempt to do


      17        is to create a transition but to provide the


      18        necessary off-street parking so that we don't


      19        have parking on the street in those


      20        neighborhoods.  As you can see, there are no


      21        curbs or gutters and it could lead to a


      22        pedestrian conflict.


      23             Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      25             MR. HERZBERG:  I'll stand by for





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        questions.  I understand I have opposition.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  And when Mr. Herzberg's time


       3        expires, he makes Ms. Tropia work very, very


       4        hard.


       5             Our next speaker is Margaret Meldman


       6        [sic].


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't know if I pronounced


       9        your last name right or not.


      10             Was I even close?


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Meldrum, M-e-l-d-r-u-m.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  My apologies.


      13             Good evening.  Give me your address for the


      14        record, please.


      15             MS. MELDRUM:  My address is 5432 address


      16        Sharon Terrace.  My name is Margaret Meldrum.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Speak up a little bit into


      18        the microphone or grab the microphone and grab


      19        it towards you, either way.


      20             MS. MELDRUM:  I've brought some pictures


      21        with concerns to the fence.


      22             First, I have concerns and I oppose this


      23        because it is a residential -- it is zoned


      24        residential right now.


      25             The fence was put up with no warning, no





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        zoning sign changes or anything, back in


       2        November, and I started inquiring about it.


       3             Along with that, the hard, chewed-up stuff


       4        that you use for driveways and stuff, that was


       5        thrown on that lot also, and it drew me to


       6        notice that it was probably going to be used for


       7        a parking lot.


       8             Underneath that stuff is -- lies a septic


       9        tank and a drain field that's still there, but


      10        they're not using it to park on, so I guess it's


      11        safe.


      12             My concerns are that it's going to


      13        depreciate the value of my property because it


      14        is a business that's going to be right up to the


      15        sidewalk practically.


      16             The fence is not regulated the same as the


      17        neighborhood, single-family fences and stuff.


      18             I've got these pictures showing where the


      19        stop sign is, and it's -- if you stop at the


      20        stop sign, you can't see down the sidewalk or


      21        down the road to -- you have to roll up even


      22        with the sidewalk to look down the way and see


      23        if traffic is coming or if there are any


      24        pedestrians on the sidewalk or children


      25        running.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I've numbered them on the back and put


       2        little -- what they represent to mean.


       3             The fence being there has been a problem as


       4        far as being able to see and safety issues.  The


       5        business -- putting a parking lot there is, like


       6        I said, possibly going to depreciate the value


       7        of my home because I have been across the street


       8        from nothing but single-family homes, and now


       9        this business comes in.


      10             That means another business down the way on


      11        Beach Boulevard will possibly buy up another


      12        house and clear it out and then put a fence all


      13        the way back up to the sidewalk, and that will


      14        become a business front across the street from


      15        me instead of homes, and I have great concerns


      16        for that.


      17             My home is the only thing I have with any


      18        kind of investment, and it's very important for


      19        me to keep my investment, you know, safe and


      20        everything, sound for me.


      21             The parking area, like I said, was put up


      22        in November.  The holidays came and there were


      23        all kinds of different goings on at that


      24        property, and the supposed overflow parking lot


      25        wasn't even used for that.  They parked on the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sides of the roads as usual and stuff.  It looks


       2        like it's hard to get in and out of anyway.


       3             If it is zoned for them to use as a parking


       4        lot, I'm hoping that it can be curbed or fixed


       5        and such that it goes along with the


       6        neighborhood houses, where we have to come down


       7        with our fences so we can see and -- traffic and


       8        stuff like that.


       9             The best scenario for us would be for it


      10        not to be there at all and for them to landscape


      11        so we could have clear view of traffic and


      12        pedestrians.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      14        Appreciate it.


      15             Mr. Herzberg, fortunately for you, she went


      16        over her three minutes.  That gives you about


      17        15 seconds to --


      18             (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)


      19             MR. HERZBERG:  Very good, sir.  I


      20        appreciate that.


      21             Very briefly -- Mike Herzberg again.


      22             I understand her issues and I am sensitive


      23        to those issues, as is the FOP.  I can assure


      24        you that safety is priority for these


      25        gentlemen.  This is their job.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I have examined the stop bar in relation to


       2        the visibility triangle.  We've talked with


       3        staff about that.  We assure you that it will


       4        meet the requirements; that is, the relationship


       5        of the stop bar and the sight visibility


       6        triangle.


       7             As to the issue of the neighborhood fences,


       8        I think you only need to look at the diagrams


       9        that I have submitted which show the 6-foot


      10        fences and the photographs of those.  They're


      11        not being regulated any differently.  And, in


      12        fact, those have not gone through the process


      13        that this has gone through and been scrutinized


      14        and been reviewed in this fashion.


      15             And, finally, in relation to value, I would


      16        contest that value is being diminished by this.


      17        If anything, again, from a planning perspective,


      18        this creates a transition from what otherwise


      19        would be a clear view corridor back to Beach


      20        Boulevard, letting the noise, you know, and the


      21        things that go along with that commercial


      22        corridor immediately into the neighborhood.


      23             So by maintaining the residential character


      24        but yet allowing for some use of the property, I


      25        think you save that.  And, really, again, a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        residential development could have gone on the


       2        property, which would have the same effect in


       3        there.  Fences could be in very similar areas


       4        and create those other effects.


       5             So, with that, I'll stand by for any


       6        questions.


       7             Thank you.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       9             Seeing no further speakers, we will close


      10        that public hearing, go to the Planning


      11        Department for their report.


      12             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir.


      13             To the committee, the Planning Department


      14        has looked at this and we've reviewed it for


      15        consistency with the area.  And there are three


      16        conditions that I think address some of the


      17        uniqueness of this particular situation,


      18        particularly the last condition.  I'll read


      19        those into the record for your consideration as


      20        an amendment.


      21             "The development shall be subject to the


      22        original legal description dated December 7,


      23        2007.


      24             "The development shall be subject to the


      25        original written description dated December 7,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        2007.


       2             "The development shall be subject to the


       3        original site plan dated December 7, 2007."


       4             And, finally, the fourth condition is,


       5        "The required transportation improvements shall


       6        be made in accordance with the Development


       7        Services memorandum dated December 31, 2007, or


       8        as otherwise approved by the Development


       9        Management Group and the Planning and


      10        Development Department."


      11             MR. REINGOLD:  (Inaudible.)


      12             MR. CROFTS:  Oh, I'm sorry.  There is a


      13        fifth condition.  I apologize.


      14             Thank you.


      15             Number 5 is, "A landscape plan" -- that was


      16        my whole point.  "A landscape plan shall be


      17        submitted to the Planning and Development


      18        Department for review and approval at the time


      19        of verification of substantial compliance."


      20             This particular condition really


      21        addresses -- and we've had discussions with the


      22        applicant -- our need for sort of softening the


      23        impact of the fence in that particular area and


      24        requiring additional landscaping appropriately


      25        along the exterior portions of this particular





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        property.


       2             Thank you.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       4             Mr. Herzberg, do you understand and agree


       5        with those conditions?


       6             MR. HERZBERG:  Yes, sir.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


       8             He indicated he does.


       9             Okay.  Seeing no further discussion, open


      10        the ballot and record the vote.


      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Inaudible.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Wait.  We need a motion and


      13        an amendment.  I'm sorry.


      14             MS. JONES:  Move the amendment.


      15             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Yarborough.


      17             We have a motion and a second on the


      18        amendment.


      19             Councilman Yarborough.


      20             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Just a question.


      21             I see that the original fifth condition was


      22        a minimum of six three-inch caliper trees and


      23        all of that.  I was just going to ask why that


      24        was changed to -- with the new condition.


      25             MR. HERZBERG:  Through the Chair, sir, the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        real problem that is -- when we explained to


       2        staff the existing oak trees and other trees


       3        that exist in that area -- in an effort to


       4        actually go down and dig to put in the necessary


       5        plant material which the staff was requiring


       6        would actually probably cause the loss of those


       7        trees.  You would be digging down into the root


       8        zone of those existing large trees, causing


       9        their -- leading to their demise.


      10             Further, to run irrigation systems and


      11        things in there that would be required for


      12        maintenance of those, we'd, again, be tearing up


      13        that root system.  So in an effort to protect


      14        the existing trees, we worked with them to say,


      15        let us come back and customize certain areas


      16        with your approval -- review and approval.


      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  Well, I appreciate


      18        that, Mr. Herzberg.


      19             And the main reason I asked is because I


      20        just want to make sure that -- to allow for


      21        the -- you know, for as much of a buffer as


      22        possible to the surrounding residences and


      23        things like that, that it will be adequate, what


      24        is put up, or what's there will be sufficient


      25        and all of that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So will that be done --


       2             MR. HERZBERG:  Yes, sir.


       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  -- and taken care of?


       4             MR. HERZBERG:  I appreciate it, sir.


       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  All right.  Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  To Mr. Crofts or Mr. Kelly,


       7        either one.  Just for my curiosity, are we


       8        rezoning it or is it staying zoned residential


       9        or -- I mean, I know we changed it to PUD, but


      10        is the land use or zoning changing on it or is


      11        it --


      12             MR. CROFTS:  The land use will stay the


      13        same as LDR, but the PUD will actually change


      14        the zoning from RLD-G, I believe -- isn't it --


      15        to a PUD, which will be --


      16             Again, a PUD, for -- you know, which will


      17        give us a contractual type of zoning, to give


      18        it -- to put the conditions in that we feel are


      19        appropriate, subject to our review and approval.


      20             Getting back to Mr. Yarborough's question


      21        about the landscaping, there are some situations


      22        here that require a little bit of discretion in


      23        terms of movement, particularly beyond what we


      24        had originally recommended, and it's a little


      25        bit more difficult assuming -- based on the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        existing trees and so forth and allowing some of


       2        that actual growth to come back.  So it's going


       3        to be a little bit more discretionary from our


       4        standpoint, but our bottom line is to make sure


       5        that it's adequately buffered.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crofts.


       7        Appreciate you answering the question.


       8             Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the


       9        amendment signal by saying aye.


      10             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.


      15             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and a second on


      17        2008-24.


      18             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


      19        record the vote.


      20             (Committee ballot opened.)


      21             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      25             (Committee ballot closed.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       3        approved 2008-24.


       4             Bottom of page 11, 2008-25.  We'll open


       5        that public hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


       7        public hearing.


       8             Top of page 12, 2008-26.  We'll open that


       9        public hearing.


      10             We have one speaker, William Trednik [sic].


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Tredik (pronouncing).


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Tredik.  Excuse me.


      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening,


      16        Mr. Chairman, committee members.


      17             My name is William Tredik.  I'm from


      18        24 Ocean Pines Drive in St. Augustine.


      19             I'm representing the owner of the property


      20        on Plummer Grant Road, Mr. Zef Mandi.


      21             The purpose of all this is he desires to


      22        split the lot.  It's approximately two acres.


      23        It's slightly under, it's a 1.93-acre lot.  It's


      24        residential rural zoning, so that permits the


      25        one-acre lots.  And Mr. Mandi desires to split





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it so that he can have the front lot and his son


       2        can build a house in the rear.


       3             The lot has some constraints which are -- I


       4        believe will be discussed in the report.  It has


       5        30 feet of drainage easement along the north


       6        side, which effectively limits the frontage of


       7        the lot to 150 feet.  So a longitudinal split of


       8        the lot really isn't possible to get any sort of


       9        a house on there that's consistent with the


      10        neighborhood.


      11             We believe this is a -- what we have


      12        proposed is -- maintains the front lot, meeting


      13        the current zoning.  It's an exactly one-acre


      14        lot with 100 feet of frontage -- or actually


      15        more than 100 feet of frontage.  And the second


      16        lot is in the rear, and it's almost an acre, and


      17        it has 30 feet of frontage on Plummer Grant


      18        Road, which we believe is adequate for drainage,


      19        for a driveway, and for signage to make sure


      20        emergency vehicles can get to the site and see


      21        where the house is.


      22             As I said, we believe it meets the intent


      23        of the zoning.  There's been other lot splits in


      24        the area that are similar.  There's PUDs going


      25        on in the area.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The property to the west, on the other side


       2        of Plummer Grant Road, has much smaller lot


       3        sizes, so it certainly -- this will still be


       4        one-acre lots.  And, again, I think it -- it


       5        will be a nice product.  Two nice homes will go


       6        in there which are consistent with the


       7        neighborhood.


       8             If you have any questions, I will be here


       9        to answer questions, and that's about it.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you very much.


      11             Seeing no questions, we will close that


      12        public hearing and go to the Planning


      13        Department.


      14             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


      15             Through the Chair, ordinance 2008-26 seeks


      16        a waiver of road frontage from the requirement


      17        of 80 feet down to 30 feet to allow for the


      18        subdivision of the subject property,


      19        approximately 1.93 acres in size or two acres.


      20             The subject property does have the


      21        sufficient lot frontage to support two lots.


      22        It's currently about 181 feet wide.  However,


      23        the unique situation created by the drainage


      24        easement that runs along that property line does


      25        preclude the property from being divided or





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        split down the middle, lengthwise essentially,


       2        so we find that there are practical difficulties


       3        in complying.


       4             Given that this is for the creation of two


       5        lots only, we find also that it doesn't conflict


       6        with the subdivision regulations in that it


       7        doesn't constitute a subdivision.


       8             The department also feels that the proposed


       9        waiver will actually benefit surrounding


      10        property values and improve the character of the


      11        areas with the demolition of the existing home


      12        on the two lots, and then the two new homes


      13        being constructed are far -- or substantially


      14        more -- larger in size and area than the


      15        proposed -- or than the existing home.


      16             We do feel there is a valid, effective


      17        easement that does provide at least 30 feet of


      18        frontage along Plummer Grant Road so addressing


      19        and emergency access will not be an issue and


      20        will not be detrimental to the health, safety,


      21        and welfare.  Therefore, the staff is


      22        recommending approval of ordinance 2008-26.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      24             Councilmember Yarborough.


      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Just a question for clarification.


       2             Mr. Kelly, our agenda actually said it was


       3        from 100 feet to 30 feet and then our report in


       4        our book says from 80 to 30, so I was just


       5        wondering -- I'm assuming what's in the book and


       6        what you said is correct.  I just wanted to make


       7        sure.


       8             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


       9             What's in the report is accurate.  The


      10        reference to 100, that is a lot width


      11        requirement, I guess, for the zoning district.


      12        The road frontage requirement is 80 percent of


      13        that required lot width, so that's -- therefore


      14        the need for 80 feet.


      15             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I appreciate it.


      16        Thanks.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      18             Seeing no further questions, do I have a


      19        motion on the amendment?


      20             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move to grant.


      21             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      23        to grant the waiver on 2008-26.


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Inaudible.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right, the amendment to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        grant.


       2             Seeing no discussion, all in favor signal


       3        by saying aye.


       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.


       9             MS. JONES:  Second.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and a second on


      11        2008-26 as amended, which will grant the waiver.


      12             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and


      13        record the vote.


      14             (Committee ballot opened.)


      15             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      19             (Committee ballot closed.)


      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      22        approved 2008-26.


      23             Item 40, 2008-27.  We'll open that public


      24        hearing.


      25             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        public hearing.


       2             The following bills will be deferred:


       3        2008-40, -41, -42, -43, -44, and -45.


       4             Top of page 14.  2008-73.  We'll open that


       5        public hearing.


       6             Seeing no --


       7             MS. JONES:  (Inaudible.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  I've got to close that


       9        public hearing first, and let me -- the Planning


      10        Department doesn't need to report because


      11        there's no amendment, correct?


      12             MR. CROFTS:  Correct.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So I will entertain a


      14        motion on the bill.


      15             MS. JONES:  Move the bill.


      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      18        on 2008-73.


      19             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


      20        record the vote.


      21             (Committee ballot opened.)


      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  I need a new vote.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Just one second.  We're


      24        experiencing technical difficulties.


      25             (Committee ballot opened.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       5             (Committee ballot closed.)


       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nays.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your diligent action, we


       8        have passed 2008-73.


       9             Councilwoman Jones.


      10             (Ms. Lee enters the proceedings.)


      11             MS. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      12             I would just like to publicly thank Lisa


      13        Ransom for all of her hard work.  This was not


      14        an easy chore for us to get finished with this


      15        particular neighborhood action plan, but the


      16        community is very excited about it, and I


      17        appreciate you all supporting this particular


      18        bill.


      19             Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilwoman


      21        Jones.


      22             Committee members -- let the record reflect


      23        that Councilwoman Lee has joined us.


      24             The following bills will be second and


      25        rereferred:  2008-106, -107, -108, -109, -110,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and -128.


       2             Committee members, unless I have missed


       3        something in the process, we have reached the


       4        end of our agenda.


       5             Seeing no comments or questions from the


       6        committee, we stand adjourned.


       7             Thank you.


       8             (The above proceedings were adjourned at


       9        6:35 p.m.)


      10                         -  -  -



































           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E




       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:


       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :




       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was


       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the


       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a


       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.


      10             Dated this 24th day of February, 2008.








      14                                 Diane M. Tropia



























           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203