1 CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Wednesday, February 20,
7 2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.
14 MIA JONES, Committee Member.
E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
15 ART SHAD, Committee Member.
16
ALSO PRESENT:
17
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
18 SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Planning and Development Dept.
19 DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
20 MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
21 - - -
22
23
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 February 20, 2008 5:00 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, we
5 will call to order the Wednesday, February 20th
6 meeting of the Land Use and Zoning Committee.
7 We'll go ahead and pretty much run straight
8 through the agenda. We had an appeal that we
9 were going to hear, but it's now going to be
10 opened and continued.
11 So we'll begin on page 2 -- sorry.
12 For the record, we have four council
13 members, LUZ committee members here today. I'm
14 Chairman Michael Corrigan, Vice Chairman
15 Clay Yarborough, Councilwoman Mia Jones, and
16 Councilmember Art Shad.
17 We will begin on page 2 of our agenda.
18 Item number 1, 2005-718. We will open that
19 public hearing.
20 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
21 public hearing with no further comments.
22 The following items will be deferred:
23 2005-1161, -1228, 2006-24, -220, -360, and
24 -520.
25 Top of page 4, the following items will be
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 deferred: 2006-658, -144, -145, -384, and
2 -581.
3 We are now on the second item on page 5,
4 2007-659. We will open that public hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
6 public hearing.
7 Item 14, 2007-803, is deferred.
8 Item 15, 2007-1011. We'll open that public
9 hearing.
10 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
11 hearing.
12 We have a substitute.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the substitute.
14 MR. SHAD: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
16 on the substitute to -1011.
17 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
18 sub signal by saying aye.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The substitute carries.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to rerefer as
24 substituted.
25 MR. SHAD: Second.
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to rerefer
2 2007-1011.
3 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
4 record the vote.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
7 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: You just subbed and
13 rereferred 2007-1011.
14 Committee members, top of page 6, item 16,
15 2007-1046. We'll open that public hearing.
16 We have a few speakers, but before I call
17 them up I will tell you that we will not be
18 taking any action on this bill tonight. At the
19 advice of the General Counsel's Office, no
20 action will be taken tonight and no action will
21 be taken at the City Council meeting that will
22 take place Tuesday night.
23 Having said that, we do have two speakers'
24 cards that are welcome to speak, although your
25 comments might be more appropriate when we
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 actually are going to take action on the bill,
2 but you are welcome.
3 Ms. Kathy Taylor and Louise De
4 Kathy --
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: She has waived her time.
7 And Louise, is she here?
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: She left.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: She has left. She must have
10 gotten the message.
11 So two speakers are not going to speak. So
12 seeing no further speakers, we will continue
13 that public hearing with no further action.
14 Item 17, 2007-1051, is deferred. -1061 is
15 deferred.
16 We are on page 6 -- page 7, top of the
17 page, 2007-1083. We'll open that public
18 hearing.
19 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
20 public hearing with no further action.
21 2007-1085. We'll open that public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
23 public hearing.
24 MR. KELLY: To the Chair.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. KELLY: On -1083, I believe
2 Mr. Herzberg is here on behalf of that
3 applicant.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Mr. Herzberg is
5 here. I believe -- Mr. Herzberg, if you'd come
6 forward. You can turn a card in later.
7 (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I believe he's requesting
9 that we go ahead and close this public hearing
10 and withdraw this bill; is that correct, sir?
11 MR. HERZBERG: That's correct.
12 Mr. Chairman, we ask that you withdraw the
13 application.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 I'm sorry. I forgot to note it when I got
16 up here.
17 Council members, at the applicant's
18 request, we will close that public hearing.
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to withdraw.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a -- do
21 I have a second on the withdrawal?
22 MR. SHAD: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
24 on the withdrawal of 2007-1083.
25 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 record the vote.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
4 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
10 withdrawn 2007-1083.
11 Do we need a card for Mr. Herzberg since he
12 spoke?
13 MS. LAHMEUR: Yes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
15 Mr. Herzberg. Sorry about that.
16 We have withdrawn 2007-1083.
17 We are now on item 20, 2007-1085. We'll
18 open that public hearing.
19 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it.
20 Item 21, 2007-1086. We'll open that public
21 hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
23 public hearing.
24 Item 22, 2007-1121. We'll open that public
25 hearing.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
2 public hearing.
3 Committee members, we are now on the top of
4 page 8, 2007-1125. We'll open that public
5 hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
7 public hearing.
8 Item number 24, 2007-1194. We will open
9 that public hearing.
10 I received a letter from Councilmember Lee
11 requesting that we defer this for one cycle. So
12 seeing no speakers, we will just continue that
13 public hearing with no further action.
14 Item 25, 2007-1196. We'll open that public
15 hearing.
16 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
17 public hearing.
18 MS. JONES: Move to withdraw.
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
21 to withdraw -1196.
22 Seeing no discussion on the withdrawal,
23 let's open the ballot and record the vote.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
7 withdrawn 2007-1196.
8 2007-1215. We'll open that public hearing.
9 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
10 public hearing with no further action.
11 Page 9. Item 27, 2007-1230, is deferred.
12 Item 28, 2007-1248. We have a number of
13 speakers' cards. We will open that public
14 hearing.
15 Before we get started on that particular
16 public hearing, at the last committee meeting I
17 had some questions raised on -- I believe
18 Councilmember Jones asked me some questions
19 concerning the past history. I did have some
20 documents I was going to pass out to the
21 committee members and also provide to the
22 applicant, if I can find them.
23 (Chairman Corrigan confers with Ms. Smith.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. My aide is
25 correct. I'm on the wrong bill. I have no
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 documents on this bill. I apologize. I wrote
2 myself a note and it wasn't correct.
3 The applicant here is Mr. Mark Rubin.
4 Mark, if you can come on up.
5 (Mr. Rubin approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: You will have three minutes
7 to make your remarks. You may reserve some of
8 that time to do rebuttal at the end, following
9 the speakers.
10 Right now I have, just for your
11 information, Mr. Rubin, two in support and four
12 in opposition at this point.
13 Council members, does anyone have any
14 ex-parte communications they need to declare at
15 this point?
16 Mr. Rubin, just one second, please.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I will declare ex-parte
19 communications with the applicant, Mr. Rubin, in
20 phone conversations, both yesterday -- and a
21 short meeting after the agenda meeting today to
22 discuss the project.
23 I also will declare ex-parte communications
24 with Mr. Weaver by telephone today and also
25 ex-parte communications with Bill Lee in a short
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1 meeting in my office this afternoon.
2 Having said that, Mr. Rubin, the floor is
3 yours.
4 MR. RUBIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank
5 you, committee members.
6 This matter is actually the third time --
7 hearing before this body. Once in an appeal
8 mode on a relocation from -- for the building
9 that's in the middle of the property, the
10 house. And, actually, three of the four members
11 here today were at the -- the last time this
12 came up before LUZ in January, and there are a
13 number of different issues and additional
14 information that I'd like to provide the
15 committee with today.
16 First, I'd like to highlight what has
17 happened, what happened up to the last LUZ
18 hearing, and I'll try to be as brief as I can.
19 Number one, this matter came before the
20 Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission.
21 It received unanimous approval by staff and by
22 the commission. It then came before the City.
23 It has received the blessing and the
24 approval of City staff, and I would encourage
25 the council members to inquire of City staff as
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1 to its findings and recommendations with respect
2 to this project. They have done a thorough and
3 deep investigation into this, and their findings
4 are consistent with what we believe is an
5 appropriate project.
6 Based on their recommendation, the Planning
7 Commission had an extensive hearing, some two
8 hours, and it also received unanimous approval
9 at Planning Commission.
10 It came before LUZ last month, and in a
11 close vote, three-two, there were some -- it
12 failed, but there were some issues that were yet
13 to be unresolved -- yet to be resolved. One of
14 which is the fact that there's a pending
15 Riverside Avondale overlay, which is much closer
16 to approval now. And, in fact, the overlay, as
17 it relates to this corner of Riverside, has -- I
18 believe there's no dispute among all the parties
19 that are involved with the overlay. And,
20 therefore, that is now an approved condition and
21 it's much more of a known rather than an unknown
22 as it relates to this project.
23 Additionally, we've worked with the
24 neighborhood. We've agreed to provide parking
25 across the street, which will add some 15 or so
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1 parking spaces to the project. They can't be
2 counted in the census for this project, but they
3 are, nevertheless, across the street.
4 The property owner that owns the majority
5 of the property is here tonight to speak and
6 endorses not only the project but also the
7 institution of those spaces. And we have agreed
8 as a developer, if approved, to pay for those.
9 And, finally, the Villa Riva condominiums
10 are catercorner, across from this project,
11 across the corner -- the intersection of
12 Riverside and Stockton. We've had extensive
13 discussions and negotiations with the Villa Riva
14 people, and we believe that they're satisfied
15 that this is a good project. I believe that
16 some of those folks may be here to talk about
17 that specifically.
18 And, of course, I'd like to reserve any
19 time that I may have for rebuttal. I know
20 there's a number of issues that are going to be
21 raised, particularly as it relates to parking.
22 Parking is the big issue on this thing. I know
23 that St. Vincent's is going to provide a lot of
24 information about it, and I respectfully request
25 an opportunity to be able to respond to that.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Rubin.
2 What we'll do is we'll gauge the for and
3 the opposition and see what we have when we get
4 finished.
5 MR. RUBIN: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: So we'll get back to you.
7 Thank you.
8 Our next speaker is Mr. Bill Curtis,
9 followed by Donald Ward, followed by John
10 Winkler.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon, council
14 members.
15 I'm Bill Curtis. I have an address of
16 2107 Hendricks Avenue, Jacksonville, 32207.
17 I just wanted to speak to some of the
18 misinformation that's been disseminated out
19 there about the parking requirements that some
20 people think should be required under the zoning
21 code.
22 By our calculations, it would have been
23 something around 118 parking places, and the
24 site plan calls for something in the 70s,
25 between 74 and 77. I forget the exact number,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 but some of what's been disseminated to the
2 people in the neighborhood is -- is a number far
3 exceeding what actually is required.
4 And in my time when I worked here at the
5 General Counsel's Office and since I've been out
6 and had a couple of handfuls of opportunities,
7 but -- to be before these commissions, I've only
8 seen a few bad decisions made. And usually when
9 a bad decision is made, it -- there is some
10 misinformation or disinformation that's been
11 disseminated among those that are in opposition
12 to the project.
13 So I would just urge that you do discuss
14 with the staff, who have looked into this at
15 great length and still approve the project, and
16 also those in the community that do support the
17 project, and -- and give it your own support.
18 We appreciate your help and consideration.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 MR. CURTIS: Thanks.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is Donald
22 Ward, followed by John Winkler.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Do you mind if I deferred
24 my comments until after St. Vincent's and
25 Villa Riva have made their comments?
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I can move you to the last
2 of the three-minute speakers, I can do that.
3 That's all I can do.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That would be fine.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: John Winkler, followed by
6 Bill Lee.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
10 John Winkler, 2515 Oak Street.
11 I have been uniformly opposed to
12 Doctors Village since I first learned about it,
13 when it was coming before the Jacksonville
14 Historic Preservation Commission, and the real
15 reason for being opposed to it is that it is
16 simply too intense of a use for too small a land
17 area in the middle of a mixed-use area that's
18 largely residential.
19 We have 58,000 square feet of new
20 development that would be put on .87 acres, the
21 existing house is roughly 4,000 square feet, we
22 have a 90 percent lot coverage, and yet we only
23 provide a total of 69 parking spaces.
24 One of the possible uses for all 58,000
25 square feet is general office space. According
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1 to the computations for parking under the
2 current part 6, this leaves a deficit on the
3 order of 150 spaces.
4 Even under the present proposed overlay,
5 which is supposed to be introduced in a week, we
6 need 154 spaces, and yet there are only
7 69 spaces that are available.
8 The problem here is that the on-street
9 parking in this area is already being used in
10 large part by both existing small businesses,
11 most of which are in converted houses, as well
12 as by the residents, and that -- you simply
13 can't dump an additional 100 or 80 cars onto the
14 street without it grossly affecting both the
15 ability of people to park and the traffic
16 congestion that already exists in this area.
17 We're talking about Stockton Street, which
18 is a major, major thoroughfare that comes in off
19 of I-10, down into Riverside Avenue. Another
20 intersection on that same block is the Barrs
21 intersection with Riverside, which is the main
22 entrance to St. Vincent's Hospital.
23 Already Riverside Avenue is a major
24 thoroughfare for ingress and egress out of
25 downtown for the Riverside and Avondale areas.
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1 The addition of another 80 to 100 to 200 people
2 attempting to find parking spaces in order to
3 see their doctors, going around and around the
4 block, is simply too much, too intensive.
5 Basically, this project needs to be reduced
6 in size to approximately half of what it is in
7 order for it to work in this area.
8 Thank you very much.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Our next speaker is Bill Lee. Mr. Lee will
11 be followed by Lisa Miller.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have two overheads.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
16 I'm Bill Lee. I'm the director of real
17 estate and property management with
18 St. Vincent's Health Care System.
19 As their director, I am here representing
20 St. Vincent's to oppose this Doctors Village,
21 even though it's medical office space.
22 Now, you might ask why. We certainly want
23 medical office space, but we -- we need to at
24 least ensure that there's sufficient parking
25 there.
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1 And the reason why we can't come to a
2 conclusion as to what the parking [sic] is
3 really required is because of the strange
4 formula for medical office space. It refers to
5 one space per doctor, it refers to one space for
6 every two staff members, and it refers to one
7 and a half parking spaces for each clinical room
8 or exam room.
9 What apparently happened from previous
10 testimony is -- the applicant indicated that
11 he's got 48,000 square feet of medical office
12 space and that he would be providing
13 12 physician offices. That would mean each
14 office is 4,000 square feet.
15 Apparently staff used that and calculated,
16 then, there's one physician for each
17 4,000 square feet, and there's two staff for
18 each 4,000 square feet, and there's three or
19 four exam rooms. I'm not quite sure how --
20 what -- how they used [sic].
21 But the fact of the matter is in the MGMA
22 surveys, which is a gold standard for medical --
23 it's a Medical Group Management Association
24 survey. Their average for single-specialty
25 practices averages a physician in 1,895 square
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1 feet, not 4,000, but 1,895. Not two employees,
2 but 6.19 full-time equivalent employee staff
3 members. A big difference, big difference.
4 It's basically half.
5 We need twice as much parking as -- I feel
6 that was calculated by staff, and it's based on
7 that information, I believe. And that's why I
8 believe it's come full force. And, finally,
9 it's now apparent it's a parking issue.
10 I suggest in my calculations that they're
11 going to be -- they're going to need 237 spaces,
12 of which there's only 72 provided.
13 Now, St. Vincent's is also willing to
14 concede a third of the parking spaces because
15 that's -- it's 35 percent right now -- is in the
16 draft of the overlay, and it's my impression by
17 talking to RAP and others that 35 percent credit
18 is acceptable. We're willing to accept that,
19 but no more.
20 The other overlay shows the required
21 parking in that calculation, but that's the
22 reason for the discrepancy between them.
23 Twelve physicians' offices, if -- each one
24 at 4,000 square feet does not provide one doctor
25 and two staff members.
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1 Thanks.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Lee.
3 Our next speaker is Lisa Miller.
4 Ms. Miller will be followed by James Minion.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. Thank you.
8 I am a resident of Herschel Street. I live
9 on the 2500 block of Herschel Street and --
10 THE CHAIRMAN: If you'd go ahead and give
11 us your name for the record.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Oh, I'm sorry.
13 It's Lisa Miller, and I own a house at
14 Barrs and Herschel. This is about a block away
15 from the proposed site.
16 I wanted to say that we're already having a
17 difficult time finding enough parking places for
18 those people who live there. I don't believe
19 that having a facility of this size is going to
20 be a good impact on our neighborhood.
21 There already is a lot of people that
22 traverse the neighborhood, and certainly there's
23 a problem with the parking sites, but people do
24 have to come and go from the facility and that
25 creates a lot of traffic in and out.
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1 And so I just wanted to say that I was not
2 in favor of this.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
4 MS. MILLER: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is James
6 Minion, followed by -- I think it's Mr. White.
7 I can't quite pronounce -- make out the first
8 name.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 My name is James Minion of 2525 Forbes
14 Street. I live within a couple of blocks of
15 this development.
16 And I would like to say, ladies and
17 gentlemen, that the current zoning code would
18 allow for the kind of development that is being
19 proposed here. Doctors' offices and similar
20 retail uses are currently allowed under the CRO
21 zoning code, which is what we have on the
22 property today.
23 I don't think there's any -- been any
24 compelling argument made to -- for you-all to
25 change the zoning code for the benefit of this
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1 development. Let's not let the PUD process
2 become a panacea for projects that don't meet
3 requirements to go through anyway.
4 The parking difficulty is real for -- is
5 very real for Riverside, and there have been
6 plenty of 90 percent lot coverage developments
7 that have been able to meet that, and we have
8 to --
9 And with regard to the very important
10 legacy work going into the overlay for Riverside
11 Avondale, which we do need, I think this --
12 approving this kind of a project does compete
13 with those standards, and as I -- the original
14 proposal of this project was 45 feet, and there
15 is -- there's currently, sir, as you know, a
16 moratorium for projects to be 35 feet. So we
17 can get a compromise on the height of the
18 building. I believe we can get a compromise on
19 some of the capacity of this lot.
20 And I just don't believe that any
21 compelling argument has been really made to --
22 for you-all to change the law in favor of this
23 one development, and I believe that as --
24 originally -- as originally proposed, a lot of
25 their -- there's some support and there's some
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1 approvals here and there, but as the neighbors
2 began to get the word about this project and the
3 nature of the project, I think you saw a dissent
4 start to rise and maybe some of the vote totals
5 went down, and I think that's -- that's the
6 momentum that we have now.
7 Mr. Lee made some compelling arguments
8 about neighboring parking. We have to decide
9 going forward how much public parking are we
10 going to allow to subsidize new developments,
11 especially in a pretty -- very dense
12 neighborhood that we already have.
13 We do need infill developments. I would
14 even support the notion that this particular
15 property probably needs redevelopment, but we
16 have to -- we have the opportunity here to
17 govern the nature of that development, not just
18 for this particular project but for this entire
19 Stockton Street corridor going forward.
20 And I appreciate your consideration on this
21 matter, and I do encourage a "no" vote on
22 2007-1248.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 Mr. -- I believe it's Mr. White, followed
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1 by Donald Ward.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: It is Mr. White. Good. I'm
4 glad it's not Ms. White. I would have been in a
5 lot of trouble.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: You did fine.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
9 My name is Ron White. I live at 2364
10 Riverside Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida, and
11 that is in the Villa Riva complex at the
12 townhomes in the front.
13 Just before the meeting, my understanding
14 is that an e-mail went out that Mr. Rubin and
15 our president of our association worked out some
16 kind of a deal that there would be no parking
17 put on the Stock- -- the Villa Riva side of
18 Stockton Street. I don't know how that happened
19 since I don't believe Mr. Rubin has the
20 authority to put or not put parking there.
21 I think that -- and then I believe that an
22 e-mail was sent to you, Mr. Corrigan. It said
23 that we withdrew our opposition to that.
24 Well, first of all, I don't withdraw my
25 opposition. And, secondly, I would think,
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1 unless you can guarantee us that there will be
2 no parking on the Villa Riva side of Stockton
3 Street, no parking spaces put there, even after
4 this has come to fruition, if it does, then --
5 then I would say that we are all still in
6 opposition of it.
7 I don't know how Mr. Rubin thinks that the
8 City would not use that property, and I am
9 certain that you guys -- it is City
10 right-of-way, and you can do with it as you
11 please. We would prefer that the parking not be
12 put there, and that's -- and --
13 And I don't know how to calculate the
14 numbers for the number of parking spaces. I
15 have no idea what's right or what's wrong,
16 whether Mr. Winkler's calculations are right or
17 whether Mr. Rubin's calculations are right or
18 whether the council's calculations are right. I
19 just know that I live there and the amount of
20 traffic and the lack of parking spaces that we
21 already have is almost unbearable.
22 The amount of people that come down
23 Stockton Street is just -- is tremendous, and
24 they're either turning right or turning left.
25 And once this is in place, I think it will just
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 increase that amount of traffic tenfold.
2 In addition, I'm not sure about the
3 15 spaces that they're talking about on the
4 other side. I guess we're going to hear about
5 that, but -- then we're talking about cutting
6 down large oak trees and infrastructure that
7 would have to be changed to make that happen, so
8 my opposition is please, please don't vote for
9 it.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 We have Donald Ward, and I've now received
13 Tim Volpe, Russell Newton, and Ben Weaver.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Donald Ward.
16 I own the property that is to the east of the
17 said project.
18 Two points: Number one is I've served in
19 this medical community known as St. Vincent's
20 Hospital for a number of years. I served on the
21 for-profit arm of the hospital and was involved
22 in a lot of the decisions that, you know, had
23 degrees of property involved in it, and I -- all
24 I can tell you is I can look across the street
25 and any improvements would be welcomed to this
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28
1 area.
2 I think that the type of facility that's
3 being proposed warrants us to look at it very,
4 very closely, and I think it's what's already in
5 the community.
6 St. Vincent's, over the years, has been the
7 one that has really moved out through all of
8 that community. And if anybody has created this
9 congestion, you've got to point the finger in
10 that direction. So perhaps we ought to go back
11 to St. Vincent's and ask them for a solution to
12 some of these parking problems.
13 Villa Riva is another interesting one, and
14 I'd like to point this out, and you may go back
15 to your records and verify this.
16 When I bought my property, I had to change
17 the zoning. And in so doing, I limited myself
18 to a business office with five parking spaces,
19 in which I carved out on my property all of
20 those parking spaces.
21 There are several other opportunities to
22 add some parking spaces around -- they're very
23 similar to what has been done by St. Vincent's
24 Hospital.
25 Now, I particularly point this out to
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1 Villa Riva because it sort of agitates me. When
2 we were in the discussion, I had opposition to
3 adding this business and these parking spaces
4 even though it was on my own property.
5 The thing that I remember very distinctly
6 is that it was voiced to the opposition that
7 Villa Riva, along the sidewalk there, all the
8 way to the river, was going to open that up, and
9 it was part of their approval to get their
10 zoning, that that would become public parking
11 and ease some of these parking problems.
12 I've had nobody from Villa Riva or anybody
13 else come back and volunteer to, you know,
14 contribute to this. And I think it takes all of
15 us, and I think if we all work together we could
16 resolve this issue.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 Our next speaker is Tim Volpe, followed by
20 Russell Newton.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 My name is Tim Volpe. I live at 2358
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1 Riverside Avenue, which is unit 206, part of the
2 Villa Riva Condominium Association.
3 I know we've had a little controversy here
4 about what's going on with respect to Villa
5 Riva. I'm here tonight -- I have Russell Newton
6 with me. Mr. Newton is the chairman of the
7 Villa Riva Residents Association. We've been
8 working together to try to negotiate an
9 arrangement with Mr. Rubin with respect to the
10 parking situation regarding his project.
11 As we understand it and as it was presented
12 to the folks at Villa Riva, the parking that is
13 currently required by the code will not be
14 afforded by the property on which Mr. Rubin
15 intends to build his building.
16 The concern that was expressed -- the
17 primary concern that was expressed by the
18 Villa Riva residents was that there would
19 therefore be a use of the east side of Stockton
20 Street, between Riverside Avenue and the river,
21 for parking.
22 As Mr. Newton will lay out for you all our
23 intentions with respect to that portion of that
24 property which we currently maintain on behalf
25 of the Villa Riva association at no cost to the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 City of Jacksonville -- a portion of that land
2 is what we intend to do -- what we intend to
3 improve and beautify with a landscaping project
4 that is being done at the expense of --
5 completely at the expense of the Villa Riva
6 residents.
7 So the primary concern that we had was the
8 parking on the east side of Stockton Street.
9 And in our discussions with Mr. Rubin, he agreed
10 that he would neither seek nor support the
11 notion that that greenspace, as it's presently
12 used now, would be modified or changed in any
13 way, now or in the future, for the use of
14 parking spaces.
15 Now, on behalf of the association, which is
16 all -- the only entity that Mr. Newton and I can
17 speak on behalf of here this evening. From our
18 perspective, that's all -- the primary concern
19 of the Villa Riva association.
20 We don't purport to speak -- as you have
21 already heard from one of our residents, we
22 don't purport to speak on behalf of all of the
23 other residents of the condominium itself.
24 There are over 66 units in the high-rise, and
25 then eight townhomes that are immediately
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1 bordering along Riverside Avenue.
2 But from our perspective, the compromise
3 that we've arranged with Mr. Rubin, that
4 those -- that greenspace would not be used as
5 parking and that there would be -- that he would
6 not support the City's transformation of that
7 greenspace into parking, from our perspective,
8 solved our concern.
9 And, therefore, I think this afternoon,
10 Mr. Corrigan -- Chairman Corrigan, you've got an
11 e-mail from Mr. Newton indicating that -- at
12 least on behalf of the association, we no longer
13 are expressing our opposition.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Our next speaker is Russell Newton, who
17 will be followed by Ben Weaver, and Mr. Weaver
18 is our last speaker that I have.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, and thank
21 you for this opportunity to speak to you.
22 I'm the president or chairman of the
23 Villa Riva Condominium Association, and
24 Mr. Volpe has explained the makeup of that
25 condominium association to you, and he's
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1 basically spoken of everything that I had
2 intended to say with a slight addition.
3 I am the one who has been directly
4 behind -- but with a lot of support -- the
5 landscaping project for the Villa Riva
6 condominium property and association, which we
7 also included in our thinking the right-of-way
8 on that one block length of Stockton Street,
9 between Riverside Avenue and the river.
10 We had intended to landscape that entire
11 area in a beautification project. And when we
12 heard about the development project across
13 the -- Riverside Avenue, we were somewhat
14 disturbed by the fact that it appeared that
15 there might be an effort to eliminate the
16 right-of-way grass area, and that was the nature
17 of our primary objection.
18 I think Mr. Volpe has expressed the rest of
19 my feelings thoroughly, and I thank you very
20 much for allowing us to speak tonight.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Our next -- our final speaker is Mr. Ben
23 Weaver.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, ladies and
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1 gentlemen.
2 Ben Weaver, 2358 Forbes Street.
3 I rise in opposition to 2007-1248 as a
4 resident of the community, specifically because
5 of the fact that we're looking to rezone a --
6 1662 Stockton from a CRO to a PUD.
7 There is -- it doesn't fit into the
8 historical character of the neighborhood, the
9 project that's being planned. The road
10 frontage, the lack of parking all carry into an
11 addition with two-way parking and two-way
12 traffic we now deal with on College and Post.
13 We now have this extended to us as well.
14 We're not opposed, the residents, to
15 additional development. This is -- as long as
16 they can develop this under the law -- under the
17 guidelines of a CRO, then we would not have
18 problems with that.
19 There was the mention of Villa Riva's
20 residents. Just to catch up a few things, their
21 greenspace will be spared, but, of course, our
22 driveways and street parking will not.
23 In reference to the property owner who
24 mentioned that he had two carved-out parking
25 spaces, that's what the market demanded. And
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
35
1 so, therefore, we, in the market, demand
2 likewise for this property, that they carve out
3 some parking spaces.
4 Finally, as Five Points has grown and the
5 gentrification continues, the historical
6 properties which decorate our community become
7 fewer and fewer, especially when projects like
8 the -- or homes like the Christmas House are
9 used as pawns to influence power.
10 So what we're looking for now is
11 specifically to level out the development that
12 goes on in Riverside. There's been quite a bit,
13 quite an expansion in traffic, and even to the
14 point where -- when JTA was considering bringing
15 a trolley down through Riverside, they were
16 happy to make all kinds of concessions because
17 of the -- or figure out ways to reroute it
18 because of the amount of traffic on Riverside
19 that's increased, has experienced the increase.
20 So I thank you. I urge a "no" vote. Have
21 a good evening.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 That is the final speaker I have.
24 Mr. Rubin, you originally spoke -- I have
25 it down as 14 minutes in favor of it and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 15 minutes against, so that leaves about a
2 minute or so to rebut what's been said.
3 (Mr. Rubin approaches the podium.)
4 MR. RUBIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll
5 try to be brief.
6 As it relates to Mr. Winkler, he misquoted
7 the parking requirements. I urge you to ask
8 staff as to what the parking requirements are
9 for this project and how they're applied to
10 calculations associated with this project.
11 Mr. Winkler is also the person who --
12 although it didn't get mentioned here, I was --
13 there was a petition that was filed and
14 withdrawn by the association. It had lots of
15 names on it of, you know, the power brokers of
16 Jacksonville. That may have found its way into
17 the record. It has been withdrawn. It's always
18 been withdrawn. And Mr. Winkler actually filed
19 that without authorization from Villa Riva, and
20 I'd ask you to verify that by -- from either
21 Mr. Volpe or Mr. Newton. I think they intended
22 to mention that and probably got carried away
23 with other responses.
24 As far as Mr. Lee's comments from
25 St. Vincent's is concerned, the MGMA is an
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37
1 organization that provides information to
2 doctors for insurance. It has nothing to do
3 with establishing parameters for parking in
4 medical offices.
5 And, in fact, all of the numbers that
6 Mr. Lee pontificated on were based on --
7 clearly -- and he filed this at the last LUZ
8 hearing -- based on FTE, which means full-time
9 equivalent. So that's assuming that every
10 doctor is working full-time, which we all know
11 they don't, and it means that every practice is
12 operating at full efficiency and full capacity.
13 So whether you have twelve offices or
14 twenty offices or three offices, it's assuming
15 everything is operating at the max. And we all
16 know -- and, again, we urge you to ask staff
17 about this.
18 When you have a number of offices together,
19 you have to look at the project as a whole
20 because there will be peaks and valleys, and one
21 practice might be at full capacity when another
22 is not even there. Some doctors only work two
23 or three days a week. So that was also taken
24 into consideration in this analysis, and so the
25 numbers are grossly overstated.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Why are they overstated? Because we're a
2 competitor with St. Vincent's, and many times
3 you see people that have an agenda, such as a
4 competitive issue, that are going to come before
5 the board and push their competitive issue.
6 I don't believe that Mr. Lee is interested
7 in having medical offices directly across the
8 street from hospital medical offices.
9 In addition to that, our offices are
10 boutique offices. They're designed to draw
11 high-end doctors from practices around the
12 country that are going to be able to improve our
13 community and improve the way that medicine is
14 practiced here. We need better doctors here.
15 We all know there's a shortage.
16 The hospital has institutional settings
17 where they're basically cramming doctors into
18 little boxes, and so their requirements within
19 the hospital are going to be completely
20 different.
21 They also mentioned their family practice
22 building, which is a 45,000-square-foot
23 building, and they say that there's 250 square
24 feet --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: If you could wrap it up.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
39
1 MR. RUBIN: -- per parking space there.
2 And in that situation, it's a family
3 practice. It's one practice, 45,000 square
4 feet. We're talking about 12 different
5 practices. And, again, it's the peaks and
6 valleys.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Your time has
8 expired.
9 MR. RUBIN: Thank you.
10 So then I would just finish by saying that
11 I would -- I do believe we've demonstrated more
12 than enough need and compelling argument for
13 this project. And, again, I would ask you to
14 refer to staff for additional information.
15 Thank you for your consideration.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close
18 that public hearing.
19 We'll go to the Planning Department for
20 their report.
21 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
22 Through the Chair, application for rezoning
23 2007-1248 seeks to rezone the subject property
24 from CRO and commercial neighborhood to PUD to
25 allow for a mixed-use development.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 This development represents urban infill in
2 the eyes of the Planning Department. This is
3 neighborhood-scale uses with medical offices.
4 It's a very walkable environment.
5 We looked at this. We recognize the
6 character of the neighborhood. The development
7 preserves a contributing historic single-family
8 structure on the property, so there is some
9 difficulty in complying with the strict letter
10 of the parking regulations. But, again, taken
11 in the context of the neighborhood, the
12 available on-street parking, also the proximity
13 to mass transit routes and bus routes, we felt
14 that this was appropriate infill and is
15 consistent with the draft of the Riverside
16 Avondale zoning overlay to this date.
17 Additionally, the current part 6
18 requirements of the zoning code in relation to
19 parking do allow for reductions and parking
20 credits, which this development does qualify
21 irrespective of the draft overlay or the current
22 proposed PUD.
23 So we were looking, again, wholistically at
24 this development. This is eliminating two
25 noncontributing office buildings and promoting a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 mixed-use development that will offer some
2 retail, office uses.
3 The medical office and the parking demands,
4 I can get into the details of exactly,
5 specifically what's required under the code and
6 the breakdown as far as consistency with the --
7 either the proposed overlay or through the
8 current part 6 requirements.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
10 I actually want to clarify a couple of
11 things to help the committee members understand.
12 Mr. Volpe, if I could get you to come back
13 up.
14 (Mr. Volpe approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: There was a petition that I
16 received in my office. Actually, it did come
17 from Mr. Winkler, as Mr. Rubin said. I need
18 you -- I think -- are you the representative
19 from the homeowners association or --
20 MR. VOLPE: Well, it's really Mr. Newton,
21 but I'm happy to answer any questions if I can.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Was the petition ever
23 submitted by the Villa Riva group, to your
24 knowledge?
25 MR. VOLPE: No.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 What happened was, we were working with
2 Mr. Rubin with respect to this issue that I've
3 described already for the committee. We worked
4 up until about one o'clock this afternoon. I
5 think he was leaving to come to the agenda
6 meeting for this -- for this gathering.
7 We did not know. A petition had been
8 prepared and was circulated within Villa Riva
9 and was at the Villa Riva office. And pursuant
10 to earlier instructions that had been given
11 apparently by another member of the committee in
12 the -- within the community that had been
13 considering this, the instruction was to try to
14 get it into Mr. Winkler's hands for filing.
15 That was something that Mr. Newton and I simply
16 did not know.
17 And so -- what I want to clarify, though,
18 in fairness, is -- because you've heard from at
19 least one other member of the community that
20 they -- notwithstanding the view of the
21 association, that this use is appropriate
22 insofar as it does not put parking on that east
23 side of Stockton, between Riverside and the
24 river. We obviously can't speak for each and
25 every resident of the community. We just can't
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 do so, but what we can do is speak on behalf of
2 the association to describe to you what the
3 association's primary concerns were.
4 So we acknowledge that that petition was
5 circulated. The intention was that -- to the
6 extent that our concerns were not addressed,
7 that Mr. Newton would present it here to the
8 committee. That got short-circuited in the way
9 that I've described, but we --
10 I don't think, in fairness, both to
11 Mr. Rubin and to the rest of the members -- the
12 rest of the residents of Villa Riva, we
13 certainly can't suggest to you that this is --
14 that we have unanimity of thought.
15 As we've suggested to Mr. Rubin, there are
16 people within the community that do object to
17 the density issues that are proposed in this
18 development regardless of the issue with regard
19 to the parking on Stockton Street.
20 So I wanted to clarify that.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Another question for
22 you. I guess my confusion is, why does
23 Villa Riva need assurances that there's not
24 going to be parking on Stockton Street if this
25 development is not going to have an impact on
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 parking in your area?
2 MR. VOLPE: I think that the concept is
3 that it all -- in all likelihood will have an
4 impact on parking if there's not sufficient
5 parking on the site.
6 The primary concern of the association is
7 that part of the -- Stockton Street that we
8 intend to beautify and improve with landscaping,
9 and so we don't -- we take no issue one way or
10 the other with regard to the concerns that
11 others in the community are expressing about the
12 fact that there may be excessive needs for
13 parking outside the site itself. We're simply
14 focused on our small neck of the woods, if you
15 will, there on Stockton Street.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: And does the association
17 have a regular scheduled meeting or they meet on
18 an as-needed type basis?
19 MR. VOLPE: We meet on an as-needed type
20 basis.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
22 MR. VOLPE: And, obviously, this has been
23 somewhat of an ad hoc development because, in
24 candor, nobody even conceived of the possibility
25 to begin with.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I think Mr. Rubin has met on a couple of
2 occasions at least with folks at Villa Riva, but
3 nobody conceived of the possibility that the
4 intention might be that inadequate parking on
5 his site would result in that area of Stockton
6 Street where we have a landscape plan being
7 developed instead into parking spaces, and so I
8 think that was the primary reason why there was
9 quite a turnabout in the perspective of the
10 folks at Villa Riva.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
12 Appreciate it.
13 MR. VOLPE: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I've got a couple of
15 questions for Planning, but I may be debating
16 the bill, so I've probably got to yield the
17 chair to my vice chair and do it from over
18 there.
19 So can you --
20 (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Corrigan.
22 MR. CORRIGAN: Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.
23 To the Planning Department, Mr. Rubin and
24 several others asked for us to talk to you about
25 the parking.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 We have talked a lot -- in the previous
2 meeting, we talked a lot about the
3 characteristics of this project, the look, and
4 the historic preservation approval, and
5 everything else. Really, it's come down to
6 parking.
7 Talk to me a little about, how did you come
8 to approval of the parking number, what -- if
9 there wasn't a PUD application, what would the
10 parking requirement be for this particular
11 development?
12 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
13 Through the chair to Councilman Corrigan,
14 the parking requirements in this, again, were
15 based on the permitted uses proposed under the
16 written description.
17 We looked at -- again, the revised written
18 description describes 10,000 square feet of
19 retail space, not including the contributing
20 structure, which is about 3,400 square feet, and
21 48,000 square feet of medical office.
22 The 10,000 square feet of the retail space
23 under the existing code as it is today would
24 otherwise require 34 spaces.
25 The 48,000 square feet of medical office --
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
47
1 now, this is unique because it's not based upon
2 an exact square footage based on medical
3 office. Medical office, as previously
4 indicated, is based on the number of doctors,
5 the number of employees, and the number of exam
6 rooms.
7 So based on the testimony that was provided
8 at the Planning Commission by the applicant,
9 there were proposed to be essentially 12 office
10 suites, three suites per floor, per each
11 building. That's on either side of the house in
12 the middle.
13 So we were looking at 12 office suites
14 with, on average, one to two doctors per suite,
15 with two to three employees per doctor, and
16 approximately three exam rooms in each office
17 suite.
18 Breaking that down, we looked at basically
19 18 spaces to be required for doctors, 30 spaces
20 to be required for employees, and 54 spaces for
21 the exam rooms. That totaled 102 spaces, plus
22 the approximate 33 -- 34 spaces for the retail,
23 plus the 11 for the contributing structure, 44.
24 So we had 102, plus about 44 spaces.
25 That's about 146 spaces required under the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 conventional code with no parking credits and
2 not contemplating the zoning overlay pending.
3 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. Thank you.
4 When they gave you these numbers, did they
5 give you the layout of the building or did they
6 show you the suites? Are they held accountable
7 to those suites or --
8 MR. KELLY: The suites were provided -- I
9 do believe we have copies of the floor plans in
10 the file. They were distributed at the Planning
11 Commission, and it is consistent with the -- the
12 floor plans are consistent with the parking
13 calculations that we looked at.
14 MR. CORRIGAN: I guess one of my
15 hesitations, committee members, is that we are
16 asking developers more and more these days to
17 give us exact details of what they're going to
18 do, and it's difficult. We're asking them to
19 spend a great deal of money to do plans, and
20 Mr. Rubin spent a lot of money on this project
21 to do plans prior to -- to having approval of a
22 zoning, and I have some concerns of whether
23 we're going to have office suites as large as
24 they say with as few rooms and all that stuff.
25 I met with Dylan Reingold from the Office
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49
1 of General Counsel and discussed it, and I think
2 we're in consensus that maybe you ought to just
3 look at straight commercial numbers, and what
4 would the requirements be for straight -- or
5 office commercial.
6 And I guess my question to Sean -- to
7 Mr. Kelly is, what -- if that was the case, what
8 would the number be?
9 If you had done 48,000 feet at office
10 commercial, what would that number be?
11 MR. KELLY: Well, office typically
12 generates more parking than standard retail
13 parking. So office is calculated --
14 MR. CORRIGAN: But keeping the 10,000 foot
15 of retail. I'm talking about -- instead of
16 being a doctor's use, being a straight office
17 commercial use, what would --
18 MR. KELLY: Well, if it was office, it
19 would just be four per thousand, straight
20 office, and that can vary from anything -- just
21 a professional business, attorney's office, up
22 to a call center. It's kind of an arbitrary --
23 well, it's a number that essentially is
24 consistent with the need.
25 We think that requirement can be excessive
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 in times, depending on the nature of the office
2 use.
3 MR. CORRIGAN: And, committee members, the
4 reason I bring that question up is there's been
5 a lot of reference to this proposed zoning
6 overlay that we're getting ready to propose and
7 everything else, and we've talked about that.
8 And in this overlay, I was pretty adamant
9 when I met with the steering committee and said,
10 hey, we've got to have special requirements for
11 doctors, we've got to have special requirements
12 for everything else. And the committee, with
13 the help of the General Counsel's Office -- and
14 Mr. Rubin was part of that discussion as well --
15 finally said, look, you just need to have a
16 straight office commercial. Don't do special
17 characteristics for doctors' offices and
18 everything else because it gets too confusing.
19 I've now come to support that notion, but
20 if you're going to look at that and reference
21 what Mr. Rubin said earlier, then you've got to
22 look at that in this project as well because
23 that's really the only true definition you can
24 have, and we use it many times in what we're
25 doing. And if it's a -- it's four spaces for
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 every thousand square feet -- is that -- I think
2 that's what you said, Mr. Kelly, right?
3 That adds up to -- I don't know what that
4 adds up to. What is it, a hundred and -- what
5 was the total number? I don't have a
6 calculator.
7 MR. KELLY: I believe it would be about
8 192.
9 MR. CORRIGAN: Yeah, which -- if you take
10 the 192, plus 34, plus 11, you're getting up
11 into a high 200 number, and this project
12 proposes 72 spaces, I think -- is that right?
13 And as much as everybody likes this project
14 and it went through this committee and we all
15 talked about how much you liked it, it got
16 rereferred at council because we hoped there
17 would be a compromise. And the reality is, the
18 only real compromise on this is reducing the
19 number of square feet of office or medical
20 that's going to be in this complex. And based
21 on that -- that's the only real solution. I
22 mean, it's --
23 The overlay also talks -- and we didn't get
24 into this, but the overlay also is going to talk
25 about setbacks and everything else that will be
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 there. There aren't any setbacks in this
2 particular project, so you've got to figure out
3 how much you're willing to overlook on this
4 project.
5 I was really hopeful that -- and I
6 appreciate Mr. Rubin and St. Vincent's and RAP
7 and Villa Riva especially for their involvement
8 in this and doing all this work, but the reality
9 is it's still too intensive of a project to put
10 in this particular area based on any parking
11 calculations you use. If you used
12 office/commercial under the current code, or if
13 you use office/commercial under the proposed
14 overlay we're going to talk about, both of them
15 are too excessive.
16 And I guess I'm a little critical of the
17 Planning Department's approval of that number
18 because it really is too intense and will spill,
19 and that's the reason I asked Mr. Volpe the
20 question. It's going to spill people out.
21 And Villa Riva had a concern, and I
22 appreciate their removal of their objection, but
23 they wouldn't have wanted the condition that he
24 not do this if it wasn't going to create a
25 problem in their neighborhood. And they're
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 really admitting on the record, that, hey, it's
2 going to be a problem; we just don't want the
3 problem to come over here.
4 And that's disappointing, and I hoped it
5 would be different. And I told the council when
6 I rereferred it that, you know, we wouldn't move
7 forward if there was a solution that was great
8 for the community, and at this point it's not
9 great for the community. And I can't support
10 it, and I would encourage my fellow colleagues
11 on the council to not support it.
12 Having said that --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you want to close the
14 public hearing?
15 MR. CORRIGAN: We already closed the public
16 hearing.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
18 MR. CORRIGAN: I'll make a motion to deny
19 2007-1248.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion.
21 Is there a second?
22 MS. JONES: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second.
24 Discussion?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you want to say anything
2 else, Mr. Corrigan?
3 MR. CORRIGAN: No.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no discussion,
5 please open the ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
8 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. SHAD: (Votes nay.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Three yeas, one nay.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, it would be
14 deferred.
15 Mr. Corrigan.
16 MR. CORRIGAN: Mr. Vice Chairman, I would
17 respectfully request to Mr. Shad, if he might be
18 willing -- if we reconsidered -- to vote to at
19 least get it out of committee.
20 MR. SHAD: Okay.
21 MR. CORRIGAN: Okay. I'll move to
22 reconsider.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there a second?
24 MS. JONES: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. A second.
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1 Any discussion?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor of
4 the reconsideration say aye.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: And is there a motion to
7 reconsider?
8 MR. CORRIGAN: I'll, once again, move my --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: On the bill as
10 reconsidered?
11 MR. CORRIGAN: I'll make an amendment to
12 deny the application, 2007-1248.
13 MS. JONES: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second.
15 Any discussion?
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the
18 ballot.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
21 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
2 denied 2007-1248.
3 (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Committee members, we
5 are now on item 29, 2007-1308. We will open
6 that public hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
8 public hearing at the council -- the council
9 president is also the district council
10 representative's request [sic].
11 Number 30, 2007-1310. We will open that
12 public hearing.
13 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
14 public hearing.
15 We are on the top of page 10, 2007-1311.
16 We will open that public hearing.
17 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
18 public hearing.
19 We will open 2007-1312. Seeing no
20 speakers, we'll continue that one.
21 2007-1350. We'll open that public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
23 one. That will actually come up at our next LUZ
24 meeting.
25 Item 34, 2008-11. We'll open that public
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1 hearing. We have several speakers.
2 I have heard from the applicant by phone
3 that he was seeking a deferral. I do have a
4 Hilde Howell, who is here for Terry Moore.
5 Ms. Howell, would you like to come up and
6 address that?
7 (Ms. Howell approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: We're going to open that
9 public hearing. Let me -- that public hearing
10 is open.
11 MS. HOWELL: While there might have been
12 some miscommunication between your assistant and
13 myself -- we spoke subsequent to Mr. Moore's
14 conversations with Councilman Shad and yourself,
15 and I was concerned that perhaps the matter had
16 not been deferred and I wanted to come down and
17 make sure that Mr. Moore did not need to come
18 down here.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. When the applicant
20 requests deferral, we always do that.
21 MS. HOWELL: Okay.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: It is a public hearing, so
23 the people that are here -- I have several
24 speakers that are here -- you are welcome to
25 speak, but your comments would probably be more
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1 effective at the time that we'll take it up. We
2 apologize about the late notice on the deferral,
3 so --
4 Ms. Moore -- Ms. Howell -- excuse me --
5 thank you for being here.
6 MS. HOWELL: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: If there is people that
8 speak against it, then you, obviously, will have
9 an opportunity to come back up, so --
10 MS. HOWELL: Okay. Thank you very much.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 I have several speakers. Jay Abraham,
13 Norman Abraham, Michael Seashole, Holt Graves,
14 and Betty Ann Graves are all here.
15 Is there anyone that needs to speak
16 tonight?
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: When is it deferred to?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: It will be deferred for two
19 weeks. It will be heard on --
20 MR. KELLY: March 4th.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: March 4th?
22 MR. KELLY: (Nods head.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: March 4th.
24 I will be happy, after -- following this
25 meeting, to make sure everybody that's here in
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1 opposition gets updated on that, and I'll just
2 have to record that as ex-parte communication,
3 so -- I'll be happy to do that.
4 MR. GRAVES: (Indicating.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Graves, come on up.
6 MR. GRAVES: Is there someplace we can call
7 the day of the meeting --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on up here. Do it on
9 the record, though.
10 (Mr. Graves approaches the podium.)
11 MR. GRAVES: I'm Holt Graves, 4437 Herschel
12 Street.
13 Is there a number or someone we can call
14 the day of the meeting to get an update whether
15 it's been deferred or -- see whether everybody
16 needs to come down here or not?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. And I apologize.
18 This is in my district, as you know, Holt, very
19 well.
20 It was a last-minute decision to do it.
21 And normally our office would contact the people
22 that we have on record. And you, obviously, are
23 on record on this. And we apologize about
24 dragging you down here, but it was --
25 When the applicant requests deferral, we
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 typically honor it. And it was -- it happened
2 between the agenda meeting and the start of this
3 meeting, so -- if it happened before or even at
4 the agenda, we would have called -- contacted
5 you, so we apologize about dragging you down
6 here for this.
7 MR. GRAVES: And -- second question.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
9 MR. GRAVES: Can we ask for a deferral if
10 we have conflicts with our -- our neighborhood
11 group?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Typically -- you can always
13 ask, yes. You can definitely ask. Very seldom
14 do you get it.
15 MR. GRAVES: Okay. Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Come on down. If you
19 want to speak, come on down and give your name
20 and address.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Michael
23 Seashole.
24 I signed an address card to speak. Would I
25 still be able to do that on this motion?
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. The public is welcome
2 to speak, as I said. It's just -- it typically
3 is more effective the day we're going to take a
4 vote on the bill.
5 MR. SEASHOLE: Thank you, Councilman.
6 My name is Michael Seashole, and I live at
7 2031 Woodmere Circle.
8 My family has lived in the same home for
9 over 50 years, two blocks from the old Graham's
10 Boatyard. I, and the majority of our
11 neighborhood, originally opposed the rezoning of
12 the boatyard to the condominium development.
13 The only ones favoring it were the developers,
14 Julian LeCraw and company from Atlanta, the
15 lawyers representing the buyers and developers,
16 and the City Council.
17 This was approved at a height limit before
18 and is now being asked to be changed. I oppose
19 any increase in height to any of the proposed
20 buildings now and in the future.
21 Thank you for your consideration.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I appreciate
23 it. Thanks for coming down.
24 Any other speaker cards I have need to
25 speak tonight?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we will
3 continue that public hearing with no further
4 action.
5 Committee members, we're on top of page 11,
6 2008-22. We'll open that public hearing.
7 We have Tom Ingram, who is here.
8 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ingram, good evening.
10 How are you?
11 MR. INGRAM: Good evening, Councilman.
12 Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue, Suite
13 400.
14 I'm here representing the applicant,
15 Flagler Development Company, and also here is
16 Mack McCuller of Smith Hulsey, representing
17 Baptist Hospital.
18 This is a companion PUD rezoning to a
19 notice of proposed change that the council
20 recently approved. And it would, among other
21 things, increase the maximum allowed number of
22 hospital beds from 250 beds to 500 in Flagler
23 Center, which is at the -- it's at St. Augustine
24 Road and Interstate 95.
25 It also increases office by 200,000 square
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1 feet and increases multifamily by 150 dwelling
2 units and allows multifamily uses to be placed
3 on two locations on the eastern portion of
4 Flagler Center.
5 These uses are still less in terms of
6 traffic impacts than what the project was
7 originally approved for when it was first
8 approved, and adding some of these multifamily
9 uses will improve the internal capture of the
10 project.
11 And Mack and I would be happy to answer any
12 questions you may have about this project.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 MR. INGRAM: Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I see no questions for
16 Mr. Ingram, so we'll close that public hearing.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
18 MR. SHAD: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
20 on 2007-22 -- I'm sorry, 2008-22.
21 We'll go to the Planning Department.
22 MR. CROFTS: (Shakes head.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: They have no input.
24 MR. CROFTS: There's no amendment on this,
25 sir.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
2 Mr. Crofts.
3 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
4 record the vote.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
7 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you just
13 approved 2008-22.
14 2008-23. We'll open that public hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
16 public hearing.
17 2008-24. We will open that public
18 hearing. We have several -- two speakers,
19 Mike Herzberg and Margaret Meldman [sic], I
20 guess.
21 I apologize if I butchered your name.
22 (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, sir.
24 MR. HERZBERG: Good evening, sir. Thank
25 you very much for the opportunity.
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1 I'm representing the Fraternal Order of
2 Police in this application.
3 What is being sought here is a planned unit
4 development for the FOP in an effort to provide
5 really what is a transition between the FOP
6 Lodge and the other commercial uses that are
7 oriented along Beach Boulevard and the
8 residential community south of this property.
9 If I may, I have a couple of things I
10 wanted to put on the overhead just to give you a
11 little depiction of the area if it would be all
12 right.
13 Can I project from here or --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: No. Go back to the
15 microphone.
16 MR. HERZBERG: Okay. This is actually a
17 photograph that's in your packet. And, I
18 apologize, I can't see it on this monitor here,
19 but I can see it on that monitor there.
20 And, really, these are two photographs, one
21 taken along FOP Way and one taken along Sharon
22 Terrace, of the fencing that the Fraternal Order
23 of Police has constructed in this area.
24 This PUD, really, is for a very limited
25 number of uses. Ideally, it is to provide
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1 overflow parking for the opportunities -- or the
2 events that occur at the FOP Lodge.
3 Regularly, there is sufficient parking on
4 the property for all of the uses; however,
5 during certain special events or roll call there
6 are times at which they exceed the existing
7 number of parking spaces on the property and
8 require additional off-street parking areas.
9 Rather than pave and create a commercial
10 parking lot immediately adjacent to a
11 residential neighborhood, the FOP has sought to
12 create this area, again, for temporary overflow
13 only and, really, in keeping with the
14 residential character of the area.
15 Now, later on you will see some photographs
16 which depict the 6-foot fences in the area.
17 This, again, is the property along FOP
18 Way. As you can see, there are no sidewalks on
19 FOP Way, at least on this side of the property.
20 This is a fence and some of the existing
21 trees that remain along FOP Way on that -- what
22 would be the eastern boundary of the subject
23 property.
24 The next picture is, again, a closer
25 photograph of that same property line showing
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1 the right-of-way. The fence abuts the
2 right-of-way but reserves the trees -- or
3 maintains the trees along there.
4 Next side.
5 This is the opposite side of the street.
6 Effectively, the FOP has cleared some of that
7 material in the right-of-way in order to put the
8 fence in without trying to harm the trees.
9 But, again, left to its own devices there,
10 this is the vegetation that will grow up, the
11 palmetto and the like. There is a 6-foot fence
12 behind that vegetation. And, again, I'll show
13 you that on a map a little later.
14 This is actually along Sharon Terrace with
15 the adjacent property owner. You can see he has
16 some very large oak trees which actually seem to
17 screen or buffer or create the transition
18 between his residence and this, again, temporary
19 overflow parking area.
20 Next slide.
21 This is actually on the rear. This is
22 looking from the FOP Lodge into the backyard of
23 the adjacent property owner. As you can see,
24 the adjacent property owner has this slatted
25 vinyl fence there. The wood fence, really, is a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 little more comparable to what you'll see as
2 being typical in the neighborhood.
3 This is a photograph -- I can't make out
4 what that is.
5 This is a photograph listed as number 2,
6 and it will correspond with a map at the end,
7 but this is an example of some of the fences
8 that are in the front yards of adjacent
9 properties, really very, very close proximity to
10 the subject site.
11 This is another close-up just showing that
12 fence, again, in proximity --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Your time has expired.
14 MR. HERZBERG: Okay. I'll submit the rest
15 of those photos for your review.
16 Again, really what this is an attempt to do
17 is to create a transition but to provide the
18 necessary off-street parking so that we don't
19 have parking on the street in those
20 neighborhoods. As you can see, there are no
21 curbs or gutters and it could lead to a
22 pedestrian conflict.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 MR. HERZBERG: I'll stand by for
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1 questions. I understand I have opposition.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: And when Mr. Herzberg's time
3 expires, he makes Ms. Tropia work very, very
4 hard.
5 Our next speaker is Margaret Meldman
6 [sic].
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know if I pronounced
9 your last name right or not.
10 Was I even close?
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Meldrum, M-e-l-d-r-u-m.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: My apologies.
13 Good evening. Give me your address for the
14 record, please.
15 MS. MELDRUM: My address is 5432 address
16 Sharon Terrace. My name is Margaret Meldrum.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Speak up a little bit into
18 the microphone or grab the microphone and grab
19 it towards you, either way.
20 MS. MELDRUM: I've brought some pictures
21 with concerns to the fence.
22 First, I have concerns and I oppose this
23 because it is a residential -- it is zoned
24 residential right now.
25 The fence was put up with no warning, no
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 zoning sign changes or anything, back in
2 November, and I started inquiring about it.
3 Along with that, the hard, chewed-up stuff
4 that you use for driveways and stuff, that was
5 thrown on that lot also, and it drew me to
6 notice that it was probably going to be used for
7 a parking lot.
8 Underneath that stuff is -- lies a septic
9 tank and a drain field that's still there, but
10 they're not using it to park on, so I guess it's
11 safe.
12 My concerns are that it's going to
13 depreciate the value of my property because it
14 is a business that's going to be right up to the
15 sidewalk practically.
16 The fence is not regulated the same as the
17 neighborhood, single-family fences and stuff.
18 I've got these pictures showing where the
19 stop sign is, and it's -- if you stop at the
20 stop sign, you can't see down the sidewalk or
21 down the road to -- you have to roll up even
22 with the sidewalk to look down the way and see
23 if traffic is coming or if there are any
24 pedestrians on the sidewalk or children
25 running.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I've numbered them on the back and put
2 little -- what they represent to mean.
3 The fence being there has been a problem as
4 far as being able to see and safety issues. The
5 business -- putting a parking lot there is, like
6 I said, possibly going to depreciate the value
7 of my home because I have been across the street
8 from nothing but single-family homes, and now
9 this business comes in.
10 That means another business down the way on
11 Beach Boulevard will possibly buy up another
12 house and clear it out and then put a fence all
13 the way back up to the sidewalk, and that will
14 become a business front across the street from
15 me instead of homes, and I have great concerns
16 for that.
17 My home is the only thing I have with any
18 kind of investment, and it's very important for
19 me to keep my investment, you know, safe and
20 everything, sound for me.
21 The parking area, like I said, was put up
22 in November. The holidays came and there were
23 all kinds of different goings on at that
24 property, and the supposed overflow parking lot
25 wasn't even used for that. They parked on the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 sides of the roads as usual and stuff. It looks
2 like it's hard to get in and out of anyway.
3 If it is zoned for them to use as a parking
4 lot, I'm hoping that it can be curbed or fixed
5 and such that it goes along with the
6 neighborhood houses, where we have to come down
7 with our fences so we can see and -- traffic and
8 stuff like that.
9 The best scenario for us would be for it
10 not to be there at all and for them to landscape
11 so we could have clear view of traffic and
12 pedestrians.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
14 Appreciate it.
15 Mr. Herzberg, fortunately for you, she went
16 over her three minutes. That gives you about
17 15 seconds to --
18 (Mr. Herzberg approaches the podium.)
19 MR. HERZBERG: Very good, sir. I
20 appreciate that.
21 Very briefly -- Mike Herzberg again.
22 I understand her issues and I am sensitive
23 to those issues, as is the FOP. I can assure
24 you that safety is priority for these
25 gentlemen. This is their job.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I have examined the stop bar in relation to
2 the visibility triangle. We've talked with
3 staff about that. We assure you that it will
4 meet the requirements; that is, the relationship
5 of the stop bar and the sight visibility
6 triangle.
7 As to the issue of the neighborhood fences,
8 I think you only need to look at the diagrams
9 that I have submitted which show the 6-foot
10 fences and the photographs of those. They're
11 not being regulated any differently. And, in
12 fact, those have not gone through the process
13 that this has gone through and been scrutinized
14 and been reviewed in this fashion.
15 And, finally, in relation to value, I would
16 contest that value is being diminished by this.
17 If anything, again, from a planning perspective,
18 this creates a transition from what otherwise
19 would be a clear view corridor back to Beach
20 Boulevard, letting the noise, you know, and the
21 things that go along with that commercial
22 corridor immediately into the neighborhood.
23 So by maintaining the residential character
24 but yet allowing for some use of the property, I
25 think you save that. And, really, again, a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 residential development could have gone on the
2 property, which would have the same effect in
3 there. Fences could be in very similar areas
4 and create those other effects.
5 So, with that, I'll stand by for any
6 questions.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
9 Seeing no further speakers, we will close
10 that public hearing, go to the Planning
11 Department for their report.
12 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
13 To the committee, the Planning Department
14 has looked at this and we've reviewed it for
15 consistency with the area. And there are three
16 conditions that I think address some of the
17 uniqueness of this particular situation,
18 particularly the last condition. I'll read
19 those into the record for your consideration as
20 an amendment.
21 "The development shall be subject to the
22 original legal description dated December 7,
23 2007.
24 "The development shall be subject to the
25 original written description dated December 7,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 2007.
2 "The development shall be subject to the
3 original site plan dated December 7, 2007."
4 And, finally, the fourth condition is,
5 "The required transportation improvements shall
6 be made in accordance with the Development
7 Services memorandum dated December 31, 2007, or
8 as otherwise approved by the Development
9 Management Group and the Planning and
10 Development Department."
11 MR. REINGOLD: (Inaudible.)
12 MR. CROFTS: Oh, I'm sorry. There is a
13 fifth condition. I apologize.
14 Thank you.
15 Number 5 is, "A landscape plan" -- that was
16 my whole point. "A landscape plan shall be
17 submitted to the Planning and Development
18 Department for review and approval at the time
19 of verification of substantial compliance."
20 This particular condition really
21 addresses -- and we've had discussions with the
22 applicant -- our need for sort of softening the
23 impact of the fence in that particular area and
24 requiring additional landscaping appropriately
25 along the exterior portions of this particular
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1 property.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 Mr. Herzberg, do you understand and agree
5 with those conditions?
6 MR. HERZBERG: Yes, sir.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
8 He indicated he does.
9 Okay. Seeing no further discussion, open
10 the ballot and record the vote.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Inaudible.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Wait. We need a motion and
13 an amendment. I'm sorry.
14 MS. JONES: Move the amendment.
15 MR. SHAD: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Yarborough.
17 We have a motion and a second on the
18 amendment.
19 Councilman Yarborough.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Just a question.
21 I see that the original fifth condition was
22 a minimum of six three-inch caliper trees and
23 all of that. I was just going to ask why that
24 was changed to -- with the new condition.
25 MR. HERZBERG: Through the Chair, sir, the
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1 real problem that is -- when we explained to
2 staff the existing oak trees and other trees
3 that exist in that area -- in an effort to
4 actually go down and dig to put in the necessary
5 plant material which the staff was requiring
6 would actually probably cause the loss of those
7 trees. You would be digging down into the root
8 zone of those existing large trees, causing
9 their -- leading to their demise.
10 Further, to run irrigation systems and
11 things in there that would be required for
12 maintenance of those, we'd, again, be tearing up
13 that root system. So in an effort to protect
14 the existing trees, we worked with them to say,
15 let us come back and customize certain areas
16 with your approval -- review and approval.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Well, I appreciate
18 that, Mr. Herzberg.
19 And the main reason I asked is because I
20 just want to make sure that -- to allow for
21 the -- you know, for as much of a buffer as
22 possible to the surrounding residences and
23 things like that, that it will be adequate, what
24 is put up, or what's there will be sufficient
25 and all of that.
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1 So will that be done --
2 MR. HERZBERG: Yes, sir.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: -- and taken care of?
4 MR. HERZBERG: I appreciate it, sir.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: All right. Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: To Mr. Crofts or Mr. Kelly,
7 either one. Just for my curiosity, are we
8 rezoning it or is it staying zoned residential
9 or -- I mean, I know we changed it to PUD, but
10 is the land use or zoning changing on it or is
11 it --
12 MR. CROFTS: The land use will stay the
13 same as LDR, but the PUD will actually change
14 the zoning from RLD-G, I believe -- isn't it --
15 to a PUD, which will be --
16 Again, a PUD, for -- you know, which will
17 give us a contractual type of zoning, to give
18 it -- to put the conditions in that we feel are
19 appropriate, subject to our review and approval.
20 Getting back to Mr. Yarborough's question
21 about the landscaping, there are some situations
22 here that require a little bit of discretion in
23 terms of movement, particularly beyond what we
24 had originally recommended, and it's a little
25 bit more difficult assuming -- based on the
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1 existing trees and so forth and allowing some of
2 that actual growth to come back. So it's going
3 to be a little bit more discretionary from our
4 standpoint, but our bottom line is to make sure
5 that it's adequately buffered.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
7 Appreciate you answering the question.
8 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
9 amendment signal by saying aye.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
15 MR. SHAD: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
17 2008-24.
18 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
19 record the vote.
20 (Committee ballot opened.)
21 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
22 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
25 (Committee ballot closed.)
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
3 approved 2008-24.
4 Bottom of page 11, 2008-25. We'll open
5 that public hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
7 public hearing.
8 Top of page 12, 2008-26. We'll open that
9 public hearing.
10 We have one speaker, William Trednik [sic].
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Tredik (pronouncing).
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Tredik. Excuse me.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening,
16 Mr. Chairman, committee members.
17 My name is William Tredik. I'm from
18 24 Ocean Pines Drive in St. Augustine.
19 I'm representing the owner of the property
20 on Plummer Grant Road, Mr. Zef Mandi.
21 The purpose of all this is he desires to
22 split the lot. It's approximately two acres.
23 It's slightly under, it's a 1.93-acre lot. It's
24 residential rural zoning, so that permits the
25 one-acre lots. And Mr. Mandi desires to split
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1 it so that he can have the front lot and his son
2 can build a house in the rear.
3 The lot has some constraints which are -- I
4 believe will be discussed in the report. It has
5 30 feet of drainage easement along the north
6 side, which effectively limits the frontage of
7 the lot to 150 feet. So a longitudinal split of
8 the lot really isn't possible to get any sort of
9 a house on there that's consistent with the
10 neighborhood.
11 We believe this is a -- what we have
12 proposed is -- maintains the front lot, meeting
13 the current zoning. It's an exactly one-acre
14 lot with 100 feet of frontage -- or actually
15 more than 100 feet of frontage. And the second
16 lot is in the rear, and it's almost an acre, and
17 it has 30 feet of frontage on Plummer Grant
18 Road, which we believe is adequate for drainage,
19 for a driveway, and for signage to make sure
20 emergency vehicles can get to the site and see
21 where the house is.
22 As I said, we believe it meets the intent
23 of the zoning. There's been other lot splits in
24 the area that are similar. There's PUDs going
25 on in the area.
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1 The property to the west, on the other side
2 of Plummer Grant Road, has much smaller lot
3 sizes, so it certainly -- this will still be
4 one-acre lots. And, again, I think it -- it
5 will be a nice product. Two nice homes will go
6 in there which are consistent with the
7 neighborhood.
8 If you have any questions, I will be here
9 to answer questions, and that's about it.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
11 Seeing no questions, we will close that
12 public hearing and go to the Planning
13 Department.
14 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
15 Through the Chair, ordinance 2008-26 seeks
16 a waiver of road frontage from the requirement
17 of 80 feet down to 30 feet to allow for the
18 subdivision of the subject property,
19 approximately 1.93 acres in size or two acres.
20 The subject property does have the
21 sufficient lot frontage to support two lots.
22 It's currently about 181 feet wide. However,
23 the unique situation created by the drainage
24 easement that runs along that property line does
25 preclude the property from being divided or
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1 split down the middle, lengthwise essentially,
2 so we find that there are practical difficulties
3 in complying.
4 Given that this is for the creation of two
5 lots only, we find also that it doesn't conflict
6 with the subdivision regulations in that it
7 doesn't constitute a subdivision.
8 The department also feels that the proposed
9 waiver will actually benefit surrounding
10 property values and improve the character of the
11 areas with the demolition of the existing home
12 on the two lots, and then the two new homes
13 being constructed are far -- or substantially
14 more -- larger in size and area than the
15 proposed -- or than the existing home.
16 We do feel there is a valid, effective
17 easement that does provide at least 30 feet of
18 frontage along Plummer Grant Road so addressing
19 and emergency access will not be an issue and
20 will not be detrimental to the health, safety,
21 and welfare. Therefore, the staff is
22 recommending approval of ordinance 2008-26.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Councilmember Yarborough.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you.
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1 Just a question for clarification.
2 Mr. Kelly, our agenda actually said it was
3 from 100 feet to 30 feet and then our report in
4 our book says from 80 to 30, so I was just
5 wondering -- I'm assuming what's in the book and
6 what you said is correct. I just wanted to make
7 sure.
8 MR. KELLY: Correct.
9 What's in the report is accurate. The
10 reference to 100, that is a lot width
11 requirement, I guess, for the zoning district.
12 The road frontage requirement is 80 percent of
13 that required lot width, so that's -- therefore
14 the need for 80 feet.
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. I appreciate it.
16 Thanks.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 Seeing no further questions, do I have a
19 motion on the amendment?
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to grant.
21 MR. SHAD: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
23 to grant the waiver on 2008-26.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Inaudible.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Right, the amendment to
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1 grant.
2 Seeing no discussion, all in favor signal
3 by saying aye.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
9 MS. JONES: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on
11 2008-26 as amended, which will grant the waiver.
12 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
13 record the vote.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
16 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
22 approved 2008-26.
23 Item 40, 2008-27. We'll open that public
24 hearing.
25 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
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1 public hearing.
2 The following bills will be deferred:
3 2008-40, -41, -42, -43, -44, and -45.
4 Top of page 14. 2008-73. We'll open that
5 public hearing.
6 Seeing no --
7 MS. JONES: (Inaudible.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I've got to close that
9 public hearing first, and let me -- the Planning
10 Department doesn't need to report because
11 there's no amendment, correct?
12 MR. CROFTS: Correct.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So I will entertain a
14 motion on the bill.
15 MS. JONES: Move the bill.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
18 on 2008-73.
19 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
20 record the vote.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: I need a new vote.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Just one second. We're
24 experiencing technical difficulties.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your diligent action, we
8 have passed 2008-73.
9 Councilwoman Jones.
10 (Ms. Lee enters the proceedings.)
11 MS. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 I would just like to publicly thank Lisa
13 Ransom for all of her hard work. This was not
14 an easy chore for us to get finished with this
15 particular neighborhood action plan, but the
16 community is very excited about it, and I
17 appreciate you all supporting this particular
18 bill.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilwoman
21 Jones.
22 Committee members -- let the record reflect
23 that Councilwoman Lee has joined us.
24 The following bills will be second and
25 rereferred: 2008-106, -107, -108, -109, -110,
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1 and -128.
2 Committee members, unless I have missed
3 something in the process, we have reached the
4 end of our agenda.
5 Seeing no comments or questions from the
6 committee, we stand adjourned.
7 Thank you.
8 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
9 6:35 p.m.)
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 24th day of February, 2008.
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