1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, February 5,
7 2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.
14 MIA JONES, Committee Member.
E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
15 ART SHAD, Committee Member.
JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
16
17 ALSO PRESENT:
18 JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.
19 STEPHEN SMITH, Planning and Development Dept.
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
20
JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
21 MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
22 - - -
23
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 February 5, 2008 5:00 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a quorum, so
5 we will go ahead and call to order the Tuesday,
6 February 5th meeting of the Land Use and Zoning
7 Committee.
8 I am the Chairman, Councilmember Michael
9 Corrigan. We have Vice Chairman Clay
10 Yarborough, Councilmember Art Shad, and
11 Councilmember Jack Webb. We have a couple of
12 other committee members that we anticipate
13 joining us in a couple of minutes.
14 We have a number of things on the agenda
15 tonight. The last item that we'll take up this
16 evening is an appeal that is on page 12,
17 2008-11. That's an appeal of the final order of
18 the Planning Commission. It was discussed in
19 the agenda meeting earlier.
20 We will allow 20 minutes for each side to
21 present their case. I know that the appellant
22 has been told that. The opposition I did not
23 have a conversation with. If you're here in
24 opposition of that bill, I would suggest you
25 kind of -- if you want to raise your hand and
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 gather as a group and put together a group of
2 you that want to get together and figure out how
3 you want to give divvy up that 20 minutes,
4 that's fine with me, but it's going to be
5 20 minutes for each side.
6 So I think most of you know each other, if
7 you want to get together and figure that out
8 ahead of time. I'll be a little lenient on how
9 many minutes you have, but the total opposition
10 side will have 20 minutes. And as a standard
11 procedure in this committee, the appellant will
12 have an option of rebuttal if he has some of his
13 20 minutes remaining during his comments. Just
14 want to let you know that ahead of time.
15 There is a second appeal, committee
16 members, that we're going to hear tonight that
17 we are now going to open and continue the public
18 hearing. That's item 40 on your agenda,
19 2007-1350.
20 I've had ex-parte communications with the
21 appellant and with some of the opposition. We
22 have some ideas of potential compromise that I'd
23 like to have the opportunity to try to work out
24 prior to hearing that appeal.
25 My ex-parte communications took place with
Diane M. Tropia,
4
1 Matt Jackson and the appellant. Matt Jackson is
2 the agent for that project. It happened
3 yesterday in the afternoon, and they also took
4 place this afternoon immediately following and
5 shortly after the agenda meeting to discuss a
6 potential compromise on that issue. And my
7 ex-parte with the opposition was just
8 understanding of the bill.
9 MR. WEBB: Mr. Chair.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
11 MR. WEBB: I need to declare ex-parte.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me tell you what. We're
13 talking about item 40. Let me open that public
14 hearing. I just declared my ex-parte.
15 I'll go to Councilmember Webb to declare
16 his.
17 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18 I had ex-parte communication with Mr. Matt
19 Jackson, representative for the developer, last
20 week, I believe. About a 25-minute telephone
21 conversation discussing the merits or his
22 position on the matter.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember
25 Yarborough.
Diane M.
Tropia,
5
1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 Ex-parte on 2007-1315 on January 21st at
3 roughly 9 o'clock in the morning with Mr. Ernie
4 Isaac to talk about the history of this subject
5 and the merits of it.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I do have one
8 speaker card, Ms. Louise De
9 Louise, do you want to defer? Since we're
10 going to defer, do you want to --
11 MS. DE
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. She recognizes -- she
13 will speak when we actually take up the bill.
14 Thank you. I appreciate it.
15 Seeing no further speakers, we will
16 continue that public hearing with no further
17 action.
18 Okay. Committee members, let's go back to
19 the beginning of our agenda. A number of items
20 are going to be opened and continued or
21 deferred.
22 We'll begin with item 1, 2005-718. We will
23 open that public hearing.
24 We have one speaker, Danny --
25 Danny, I can't pronounce your last name.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Come on up.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Ferreira.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Ferreira (pronouncing).
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, I'm just speaking
7 for myself. I'm not sure exactly where this
8 stands.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Give me your name and
10 address for the record, please.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. Danny Ferreira,
12 14838 Edwards Creek Road in Jacksonville,
13 32226.
14 I guess I'm just speaking in opposition to
15 this because I don't know where it stands with
16 the City. My understanding is they're trying to
17 create some kind of advertisement at the bus
18 stops.
19 I've opposed this. And I'm assuming that
20 it's going forward with some kind of signed
21 agreement that they're going to be placing signs
22 on these bus stops around the City. Is this
23 correct?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: That is what the original
25 bill proposed.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. FERREIRA: Right. And there's been an
2 agreement to move this forward as far as --
3 MR. WEBB: Do you want me to respond to
4 that?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Do you want to respond
6 to that?
7 If I could, let me get Councilmember Webb
8 to respond to your question.
9 MR. FERRIERA: Thank you.
10 MR. KELLY: I'm sorry. Your name is what?
11 MR. FERRIERA: Danny Ferreira.
12 (Ms. Jones enters the proceedings.)
13 MR. WEBB: Mr. Ferreira, the matter is
14 currently in the LUZ committee, also in the
15 Rules Committee. It's been deferred -- the bill
16 has been deferred numerous cycles to negotiate
17 some sort of compromise arrangement with the
18 community group that's in opposition to the
19 bill.
20 So we anticipate it will probably be
21 deferred for another four months or so while we
22 work out some -- attempt to work out a
23 compromise in the matter.
24 MR. FERRIERA: Right. Okay. Well, then
25 I -- I guess really what I want to do is to make
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 sure that I really get my verbal objections to
2 this kind of placing of advertisements around
3 bus stops around the city. I've seen this in
4 Portugal and Lisben, and it's not an attractive
5 thing in the downtown areas.
6 I just don't see why this even exists. It
7 seems to me that this is special interest
8 pushing agenda to push revenue-driven
9 advertisements in our city, like our painting of
10 our buses and stuff like this. And I just think
11 that this is something that -- this city, I
12 thought, worked very hard in previous
13 administrations to make sure that we did not
14 pollute, visually, our city.
15 I've traveled in various cities that I have
16 not seen this. And when I've traveled and seen
17 it, like I say, in Portugal, it's not
18 attractive. It's not attractive at all. So I
19 encourage that this type of special driven
20 revenue, whatever, just be stopped. It's not
21 what I expect the City of Jacksonville
22 government to be addressing.
23 Thank you all.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 And as we indicated, there will be no
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 action on this item.
2 Seeing no further speakers, that public
3 hearing will be continued with no further
4 action.
5 (Ms. Lee enters the proceedings.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Committee members, items 2
7 and 3, 2005-1161 and 2005-1228, will both be
8 deferred.
9 Top of page 3, item 2005-1399. We'll open
10 that public hearing.
11 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
12 hearing.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to withdraw.
14 MR. WEBB: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
16 to withdraw 2005-1399.
17 Open the ballot, record the vote.
18 (Committee ballot opened.)
19 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
20 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
21 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
25 (Committee ballot closed.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 withdrawn 2005-1399.
4 Items 5 and 6 on page 3 are deferred,
5 2006-24 and 2006-220.
6 All the items on page 4 and 5 are
7 deferred: 2006-360, -520, -658, 2007-144, -145,
8 -384, and -581.
9 We're on page 6 now, top of the page,
10 2007-659. We'll open that public hearing.
11 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
12 public hearing with no further action.
13 Item 15, 2007-803, is deferred.
14 Item 16, 2007-1011. We'll open that public
15 hearing.
16 Seeing no speakers, we will close that --
17 we'll continue that public hearing with no
18 further action.
19 Item number 17, 2007-1046. We will open
20 that public hearing.
21 Louise De Spain is here. I'll tell you
22 that at the agenda meeting today, the district
23 councilperson, Councilmember Gaffney, came and
24 talked about the meeting he had with a number of
25 institutions and people in the community. They
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 think they're working towards some type of
2 compromise. They are not ready to present that
3 tonight. They will most likely explain it at
4 the council meeting, which we'll have a public
5 hearing as well. We're looking at taking action
6 in the next cycle, the next two weeks from
7 tonight at this LUZ Committee.
8 I know Shannon Eller is here from OGC. Do
9 you have anything to add to that?
10 MS. ELLER: No, sir. Just a general
11 reminder that in two weeks the LUZ Committee
12 will be meeting on Wednesday instead of Tuesday
13 because we have a Monday holiday. So anyone
14 that is looking at an item on the agenda and
15 planning on coming back in two weeks, please
16 note that the LUZ Committee will be meeting on
17 Wednesday night.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, that's a good point.
19 Thank you.
20 MS. DE SPAIN: I'll wait to speak until
21 then.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: She will wait until then.
23 Thank you very much. We appreciate that.
24 Okay. Seeing no further speakers, we'll
25 continue that public hearing with no further
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 action.
2 Top of page 7, item 18 and 19, 2007-1051
3 and -1061, are both deferred.
4 Item number 20, 2007-1083. We'll open that
5 public hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
7 public hearing.
8 Item 21, 2007-1085. We'll open that public
9 hearing.
10 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
11 public hearing.
12 Page 8, item 22. We will -- 2007-1086.
13 We'll open that public hearing.
14 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue the
15 public hearing.
16 2007-1121. We'll open that public hearing.
17 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
18 public hearing.
19 Item number 24, 2007-1125. We'll open that
20 public hearing.
21 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
22 public hearing.
23 Committee members, on the bottom of page 8,
24 item number 25, 2007-1191. We're going to open
25 that public hearing.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 We have one speaker, Mr. Charles Mann.
2 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
4 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, members of the
5 committee, Charles Mann, 165 Arlington Road,
6 representing the landowner.
7 This piece of property is located on the
8 south side of Beach Boulevard, between Hodges
9 and San Pablo. It's going to be designed for a
10 self-storage facility of approximately four
11 stories.
12 We have worked very closely with the
13 neighborhood. We've agreed to have no access to
14 the rear of the building. We've left a 90-foot
15 buffer at the rear of the building. We've moved
16 the dumpster three times. We've limited hours
17 of operation. We've reduced the size of the
18 building to add to the buffer. We've agreed to
19 put windows. We've agreed to have no windows
20 facing south.
21 We've added a lighting consideration to our
22 application. The drainage that was an issue to
23 the neighborhood will be addressed through the
24 St. Johns Water Management District submittals.
25 I'd like to point out that we do not add to
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 school traffic. Our concurrency is very light
2 at this place because of the type of operation.
3 And from the neighborhood that we worked
4 with, we had one lady come and speak in our
5 favor at the Planning Commission.
6 If I have no other opposition, I will yield
7 to any questions you may have.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I see no other
9 speakers, so I assume you have no opposition at
10 this point.
11 So seeing no other speakers, we'll close
12 the public hearing.
13 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Councilmember
15 Lee and Councilmember Jones -- I was going to
16 say that earlier -- they both joined us several
17 minutes ago. So welcome.
18 MS. LEE: Several hours.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: It was 5:02, I believe, is
20 when you -- you're right on schedule.
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: I'll second the motion.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second
23 on the amendment.
24 Could we go to the Planning Department for
25 the explanation of the amendment, please.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman, members of
2 the committee, the amendment consists of 11
3 conditions, and they are as follows.
4 "The development shall be subject to the
5 original legal description dated October 22,
6 2007."
7 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
8 to the original written description dated
9 September 24, 2007."
10 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
11 to the revised site plan dated January 16,
12 2008."
13 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
14 to the Development Services memorandum dated
15 October 31, 2007, or as otherwise approved by
16 the Planning and Development Department."
17 Number 5, "All sides of the building shall
18 have architectural details, including faux
19 windows, variation in wall planes, contrasting
20 banding and pilasters. Flat roofs with parapets
21 shall have contrasting color caps. No plain
22 concrete block is permitted.
23 "Architectural (inaudible) shall be
24 submitted at the time of verification of
25 substantial compliance for review and approval
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 by the Planning and Development Department."
2 Number 6, "Front yard setbacks shall be
3 30 feet at a minimum."
4 Number 7, "The portion of the site in the
5 low density LDR functional land use category
6 shall not be used as a vehicle use area except
7 for emergency vehicles."
8 Number 8, "No windows on the south facade
9 shall allow a view from the interior to the
10 exterior of the building."
11 Number 9, "Illumination levels at all
12 property lines shall not exceed .5 footcandles.
13 Outside shields and other cutoff reflectors may
14 be incorporated into the lighting equipment to
15 meet this lighting standard."
16 Number 10, "The hours of customer access
17 shall be limited to 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m."
18 Number 11, "The developer shall provide an
19 uncomplementary land use buffer meeting the
20 requirements of part 12 of the zoning code along
21 all property lines adjoining a residential use
22 or residential zoning."
23 That's it.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 Mr. Mann, do you agree with those
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1 conditions?
2 MR. MANN: Yes, sir, we do.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you.
4 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: We're still on the
6 amendment.
7 All in favor of the amendment signal by
8 saying aye.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
13 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and a second on the
16 bill as amended.
17 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
18 record the vote.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
21 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
22 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
23 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 (Committee ballot closed.)
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
4 approved 2007-1191.
5 MR. MANN: Thank you, committee.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
7 Committee members, we're on the top of
8 page 9, 2007-1194. We'll open that public
9 hearing.
10 Councilmember Yarborough.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Mr. Chairman, just to
12 declare ex-parte on 2007-1191 will Mr. Bill
13 Silcox on January 23rd via e-mail. Just an
14 explanation of why I requested a deferral at the
15 January 15th meeting.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other ex-parte,
20 Mr. Silcox, good afternoon.
21 Welcome.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
23 Bill Silcox, 6750 Cisco Gardens Road West.
24 I represent Greg Strayer. Generally,
25 Mr. George Grosse (phonetic) is also a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 representative. We ask that we can defer
2 tonight. We've been trying to get ahold of
3 Ms. Lee. We just recently had the opportunity
4 to talk with your -- we just started today,
5 George Grosse and myself. I'm sorry.
6 We ask to defer it. That way we can have
7 time to get with Ms. Lee. I did talk to
8 Mr. Yarborough.
9 I appreciate your response, but we've yet
10 to get with Ms. Lee on this and kind of go over
11 a few things and kind of get her brought up to
12 speed on this.
13 We would ask that we could defer this.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember Lee.
15 MS. LEE: Yes. Good afternoon.
16 Would you tell me again your name and who
17 you're representing?
18 MR. SILCOX: Bill Silcox. I represent Greg
19 Strayer.
20 MS. LEE: Okay. And you said you started
21 today trying to reach me?
22 MR. SILCOX: Yes, ma'am.
23 MS. LEE: Oh, okay.
24 MR. SILCOX: Yes, ma'am.
25 We were unable to reach you, so we kind of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 rushed down here to try to see if we can defer
2 this and have another opportunity to get with
3 you.
4 Is that possible?
5 MS. LEE: Yeah, that is possible.
6 I think we're ready to move with this,
7 aren't we?
8 Well, no. Okay. I'll wait. That's no
9 problem. I'll be happy to get with you.
10 MR. SILCOX: Okay. Thank you.
11 Myself and Mr. George Grosse was the one
12 that tried to contact you today.
13 MS. LEE: Okay. That's no problem. I'll
14 be happy to get with you and Mr. Grosse.
15 MR. SILCOX: Okay. Thank you.
16 MS. LEE: Is he here?
17 MR. SILCOX: No, ma'am. He wasn't able to
18 be here. That's why we're asking to defer it.
19 It was kind of last minute for both of us.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no other
21 speakers and a request without opposition to
22 defer, we will continue the public hearing with
23 no further action tonight.
24 Committee members, item 27, 2007-1196.
25 We'll open that public hearing.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
2 public hearing with no further action.
3 Item 28, 2007-1215. We will open that
4 public hearing.
5 This is a matter that was discussed at the
6 last meeting and as the discussions took place,
7 there was an indication that there wasn't enough
8 time for both sides to fully explain their case
9 and their opinions in three minutes, and so
10 we're going to do something unusual and extend
11 each side ten minutes speaking time on this
12 issue.
13 We'll begin with the applicant, Mr. T.R.
14 Hainline, for him to make his point, and then
15 the opposition will have ten minutes, which is
16 represented, I believe, by Mr. Paul Harden,
17 and then Mr. Hainline will have time -- ten
18 minutes -- if remaining time is left in your ten
19 minutes, you can have time for rebuttal at the
20 end of it.
21 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
23 MR. HAINLINE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24
25 This is a very ordinary and normal
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1 development agreement. Your staff has
2 recommended approval. The district councilman,
3 Mr. Holt, has no objection. There are no
4 residents in the area who've spoken in
5 opposition to this. However, Mr. Harden has
6 spoken in opposition.
7 This has been deferred three times. And
8 after the last LUZ meeting, Mr. Harden
9 approached me in the back of the room and stated
10 that he would withdraw his opposition if we
11 purchased his property, which is about
12 3,600 feet down the road and across Garden
13 Street. We can't do that, and we won't, no
14 matter what the vote of this committee is here
15 tonight.
16 We're happy for Mr. Harden to develop and
17 sell his property. We didn't object to the two
18 rezonings of his property to the comprehensive
19 plan amendment on his property, which since has
20 been challenged by the DCA.
21 We haven't intervened in the proceedings
22 where the DCA has challenged his comp plan
23 amendment, and we haven't opposed his fair
24 share, which is currently pending before the
25 council.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 But when he opposes our development
2 agreement, we have to be here and we have to
3 defend, so I want to talk about the reasons he's
4 offered for opposing this.
5 Point one, which is at the first tab in the
6 booklet, Mr. Harden says that this development
7 agreement involves an old concurrency
8 certificate that's just been sitting around.
9 Well, "old" is a relative term. In the context
10 of other development agreements that you've
11 approved, this applicant's concurrency
12 certificate is actually average. It's not old.
13 I've reviewed the last eleven development
14 agreements that you've approved, going back to
15 October of last year, while this one was
16 pending. Five of those eleven development
17 agreements involved concurrency certificates
18 older than this one. So this isn't old, it
19 hasn't been sitting around. It's about average
20 for development agreements that you've approved.
21 The second point that Mr. Harden has made
22 is that since we were issued a concurrency
23 certificate, we haven't been moving forward with
24 development. The facts show otherwise.
25 Since 2004, the applicant here has spent
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1 almost $700,000 in engineering, permitting,
2 environmental, surveying, and site work. It's
3 all at tab 2, listed by annual expenditures in
4 each category. That figure does not include the
5 purchase price of the property, which is in the
6 millions of dollars.
7 Point three. Mr. Harden states that we
8 have not maintained our, quote, place in line,
9 our place in the concurrency queue when we
10 applied for this development agreement. Again,
11 the facts show otherwise.
12 The code provides that while we're
13 negotiating a development agreement, we hold our
14 place in line by entering into a Memorandum of
15 Agreement signed by the planning director.
16 We have maintained a signed Memorandum of
17 Agreement with the planning director
18 continuously since October of 2006.
19 Last year we sought a different development
20 agreement, one for the entire property for ten
21 years and with a general performance schedule.
22 That was denied.
23 After input from the City's staff and from
24 you, we're now proposing a development agreement
25 only for the retail portion of the development
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 for five years and with a more specific
2 performance schedule.
3 Throughout that entire period, we've
4 continued to maintain our place in line with a
5 Memorandum of Agreement signed by the planning
6 director.
7 Your lawyers and your staff tell us that
8 we've complied with the code and have kept our
9 place in line. We urge you to consult with them
10 if you have any questions on this issue.
11 Point four. Finally, Mr. Harden says that
12 our development is not consistent with the
13 comprehensive plan. Again, the facts show
14 otherwise.
15 The City Council, twice, expressly found
16 our development to be consistent with the
17 comprehensive plan. In the recitals in the two
18 ordinances approving the zoning of this
19 property, the City Council expressly found that
20 this development is consistent with the
21 comprehensive plan.
22 Also, since then, City agencies have issued
23 three approvals, which can only be issued if we
24 are consistent with the comprehensive plan,
25 verification of PUD compliance, a site plan
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 approval, and the approval of full engineering
2 and construction plans.
3 There's no reason for the council now to
4 change its previous position and conclude that
5 our development is somehow inconsistent with the
6 comprehensive plan, particularly after the
7 applicant has purchased the property and has
8 spent $700,000 in engineering and permitting.
9 In conclusion, this development agreement
10 we're seeking is no different from the hundreds
11 that you've approved since 1993.
12 The staff recommends approval. The
13 district councilman, Mr. Holt, has no
14 objection. We've addressed the points that
15 Mr. Harden has made before you.
16 I ask that you approve this development
17 agreement.
18 Our proposed revised performance schedule
19 is at tab 5, and we offer that as an amendment
20 to the bill, and I'd like to reserve rebuttal
21 for the rest of my time.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
27
1 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
2 Boulevard.
3 I do not own any property. I have not
4 offered to sell Mr. Hainline any property. I
5 told him there was a way to resolve this, it
6 involved the purchase of some land on Garden
7 Street because this has been going on for two
8 years.
9 The fact -- I'm going to assume that he
10 misunderstood because of his comments, because
11 they are not truthful.
12 This piece of property, this development
13 agreement, was the subject of a hearing before
14 the LUZ Committee on May 15th, 2007. This
15 committee heard this exact same argument on this
16 exact same piece of property and unanimously
17 denied the application for the development
18 agreement. Mr. Shad voted against it.
19 Ms. Jones voted against it. Mr. Clark isn't
20 here, he voted against it. Councilman Ray and
21 Councilwoman Self voted against it.
22 Two weeks later, the full City Council
23 heard this same exact argument and by a vote of
24 eighteen to nothing denied the same exact
25 development agreement.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 There were two bases that the Planning
2 Department -- the LUZ Committee and the City
3 Council denied this development agreement on.
4 One is the record in the file. It was
5 introduced into evidence and it's part of the
6 record.
7 The applicant filed on October 6th, 2006,
8 for this development agreement. For a period of
9 a year and a half he wrote letters. While
10 everybody around him developed and everybody
11 around him went forward, he wrote letters
12 saying, Please extend our concurrency request,
13 we're working on engineering plans. Please do
14 this, we're working on this, we're working on
15 that.
16 He didn't do anything for a year and a half
17 and let everybody else go forward and pay
18 concurrency. For instance, one of my clients --
19 not me -- one of my clients has a development
20 about 100 yards from here, across Garden
21 Street. And for 40,000 square feet of
22 concurrency on that retail site, we're required
23 to pay $750,000.
24 Mr. Hainline's client, however, signed up
25 out there and kept holding it in abeyance,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 holding it -- but he has no intention of ever
2 developing this commercial site at the location,
3 and I'll talk to you about that in one second,
4 but he's held it unfairly through the process.
5 The process lets you hold it for 90 days.
6 He wrote a series of 14 letters that I
7 introduced into evidence saying I'm doing
8 things, which were boldface lies, which kept the
9 process going. And based on that, the committee
10 felt that he was not, in fact, moving forward in
11 good faith.
12 The second issue that the committee denied
13 it on, and then the council, was lack of
14 compliance with the comprehensive plan.
15 Chapter 163, specifically 163.3227, requires
16 that before you approve a development agreement,
17 you have to find that the development agreement
18 is consistent with the comprehensive plan.
19 This zoning is not consistent with the
20 comprehensive plan. It is a rural village. It
21 has developed 700-and-something houses,
22 40,000 square feet of commercial and additional
23 office on an agriculturally-designated piece of
24 land. And the way they got around that was to
25 propose a rural village.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 The requirements of a rural village are
2 very specific in the comprehensive plan. It
3 requires, one, that you be 500 acres in size.
4 No dispute whether you're 500 or not. Two, that
5 you be on a collector road. And, three, that
6 you have more than -- you have three or more
7 uses.
8 This site is 380 acres. You can't fudge
9 that you're 500 acres.
10 The LUZ Committee, when it approved the
11 rural village, did it over the strenuous
12 objections of Councilwoman Self and, quite
13 frankly, Councilman Shad. And then when they
14 came back and revisited it, they realized that
15 they had the wool pulled over their eyes.
16 It's on Garden Street. Garden Street is
17 not a collector road. They found it didn't
18 comply with that.
19 And, third, the third use that they added
20 in was a recreational use, using a thousand
21 acres of land across Garden Street that the City
22 had purchased for a park.
23 This fact -- in fact, this development does
24 not meet the requirements of a rural village
25 and, in fact, is not in compliance with the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 comprehensive plan, and the committee found
2 that, and that was the second basis that they
3 unanimously denied this request.
4 There is a procedure set forth in the rules
5 in chapter 655, and it says you file for a CCAS,
6 and then when your CCAS gets denied because of
7 activity, you take one route, or if there's
8 available capacity, you apply for a development
9 agreement. And that's what they're doing under
10 part 2, applying for a development agreement to
11 hold capacity that they've been holding for two
12 years while other developers have paid 750- or
13 a million dollars for that same capacity that
14 they -- that they actually move forward.
15 But then there's a process. You file your
16 application, you file your development
17 agreement. It's heard through the committee
18 process, and then the council has three
19 options. It has the option to approve the
20 development agreement, approve the development
21 agreement with amendments, or disapprove.
22 This council unanimously disapproved this
23 development agreement, an eighteen-to-nothing
24 vote, a six-to-nothing vote in the LUZ
25 Committee, this same exact development
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 agreement. Mr. Hainline suggests to you that
2 it's a different agreement, but the exact same
3 CCAS number is on the old legislation as is on
4 this legislation. So it's the exact -- and it's
5 the exact same piece of property. It denied
6 it.
7 So instead of being denied and the capacity
8 going back into the hopper as this -- as the
9 committee suggested it should have, they just
10 started all over again. They didn't go back to
11 the back of the line. They're back before you
12 with the exact same legislation. So they aren't
13 following the process that the -- that chapter
14 655 says that they should do.
15 I want to go through Mr. Hainline's points
16 real quick.
17 I don't see the time here, so if somebody
18 can tell me how close I am to --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: You have about four minutes
20 left.
21 MR. HARDEN: Okay. I'll go quickly.
22 In the context of other development, it's
23 not old. It was filed in October of 2006. The
24 fact that somebody else got away with it is not
25 an excuse for allowing this applicant to keep
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
33
1 saying, I'm doing something, and not doing it,
2 and then allowing them to come in and take
3 advantage of everybody else that's out there
4 paying for roads.
5 By definition, it's old. The fact that
6 somebody else did it doesn't make it not old.
7 The second one is that the applicant has
8 been actively moving forward with development.
9 The active development out there is for the
10 homes. They're trying to develop houses out
11 there. They haven't done anything with regard
12 to this commercial activity.
13 There's two separate CCASs. When it helps
14 him, he wants to separate the CCAS -- I mean, to
15 put them together. When it hurts him, he wants
16 to separate them.
17 This activity -- the engineering has to do
18 with a 700- or 1,100-unit subdivision they're
19 doing out there. It doesn't have anything to do
20 with the commercial activity that they're
21 seeking this application for today.
22 I drove by there last weekend. What's
23 today? It's Tuesday. I drove by there on
24 Saturday and I went up Garden Street, and
25 there's no activity going on.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 The third point is that the opinion of the
2 planning staff, it's that the -- they have
3 properly maintained a Memorandum of Agreement.
4 That's just not true.
5 When this council denied that CCAS -- I
6 mean, that development agreement in May of 2007,
7 that Memorandum of Agreement -- that Memorandum
8 of Agreement says it's in effect until the
9 council takes action on it. The council took
10 action on it. They denied it. At that time,
11 the Memorandum of Agreement was gone.
12 Fourth, he says that the council has twice
13 found it in compliance with the comprehensive
14 plan. Well, in all due respect, I would suggest
15 to you that when they denied the application --
16 and Councilman Shad and Councilwoman Jones can
17 tell you, the basis for that denial was that it
18 was not in compliance with the comprehensive
19 plan.
20 But whether the council did or didn't
21 before, the question -- is it 500 acres? Well,
22 no, it isn't. Is it on a collector road? Well,
23 no, it isn't. Does it have three uses? Well,
24 yeah, if you use the thousand acres that we, as
25 taxpayers, bought across the street as the third
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 use.
2 So the issue has been heard. It's been
3 vetted. It's been heard by the LUZ Committee in
4 great length. You guys have heard it, I think
5 this is -- I feel like Bill Murray in --
6 whatever that day is -- Groundhog Day, because
7 we keep coming back and back, but we also came
8 to an end the first time in the LUZ Committee.
9 And then the LUZ Committee, they unanimously
10 denied it. The council unanimously denied it.
11 The facts have not changed. It is
12 blatantly unfair to let this person take
13 advantage of the system, particularly when they
14 don't meet the requirements of chapter 655 or
15 chapter 163.
16 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
18 Mr. Hainline, I think you had about three
19 minutes -- four and a half.
20 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
21 MR. HAINLINE: Thank you.
22 If you have questions or concerns about
23 whether we have not followed the process, not
24 maintained our reservation, abused the process
25 in some fashion, I urge you to consult with
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
36
1 someone who is not compensated by either party
2 in this, consult with your lawyers and your
3 staff. What they have told us is we have done
4 everything exactly pursuant to the code in
5 maintaining our reservation and in properly
6 seeking this development agreement.
7 Let's revisit, just for a second, the LUZ
8 hearing that happened on the previous and
9 different development agreement that was for a
10 different development, more, longer period of
11 time, and a different performance schedule.
12 When this came before LUZ last May, I
13 believe it was, Mr. Duggan and I were
14 representing the applicant. We did not know
15 that Mr. Harden was going to speak in
16 opposition. He did. We asked for a deferral.
17 It was not granted. We did not have an
18 opportunity to present the evidence that you
19 have before you today; for example, regarding
20 the activities that my client has done over the
21 past three years.
22 When it went to the full council, your
23 General Counsel's Office sent a memorandum
24 saying that it should be rereferred back to
25 committee to allow the applicant to present
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 evidence regarding what Mr. Harden had said. It
2 was not rereferred back to committee and it came
3 out of council. I think Mr. Corrigan will
4 remember the circumstances of that.
5 So what you have before you is a different
6 development agreement, less development, less
7 time, different performance schedule. And this
8 time you have all the facts before you, facts
9 that we did not get to present last time.
10 Mr. Harden said a couple of things that
11 were just flat wrong. He said my client didn't
12 do anything for those years. You have the
13 expenses before you. You have the dates for the
14 permit applications filed and obtained. For
15 example, a Corps of Engineers permit takes two
16 years to get. And the dates of our application
17 and the date it was issued, which was last
18 December, is right in those materials that I
19 sent to you. He was doing a lot of things. You
20 have to get some permits to start turning dirt
21 for houses, and that often takes two to three
22 years.
23 He mentioned his fair share and how he is
24 sitting there and he can't get the trips because
25 we're hogging the trips. As I said at the last
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 hearing -- and Mr. Harden said this wasn't
2 relevant, but he brought it up today --
3 Mr. Harden won't get these trips. He locked in,
4 in his fair shares, to his amount that he has by
5 paying his $500 before we even filed for this
6 development agreement.
7 He's locked in. You denying this is not
8 going to give him any trips or allow anyone to
9 move forward behind us. The only thing you
10 denying this will do is it will take that retail
11 development, which the council did want -- I
12 think Mr. Shad and Ms. Jones would remember that
13 this retail was actually added on to the PUD
14 because the council was interested in us moving
15 forward with retail as part of this PUD. It was
16 important to the council.
17 If you deny this, it's a tremendous
18 disincentive to ever do that development. And,
19 by the -- retail development.
20 And, by the way, Mr. Harden said my client
21 has no intention of developing the retail.
22 Wrong. He has no basis to state that.
23 And why am I here? Why am I fighting for
24 this if we have no interest in it? If we have
25 no interest in developing it, I wouldn't be
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
39
1 here. I wouldn't be fighting this. So he's
2 just wrong when he says that, and he has no
3 basis to state it.
4 That is my conclusion. I urge you to
5 consult with your lawyers and your staff on the
6 procedural issues that are before you, and I
7 thank you for your time.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hainline.
9 Seeing no speakers, the public hearing is
10 closed.
11 We'll go to Councilmember Lee.
12 MS. LEE: Thank you.
13 Mr. Corrigan, I have a question. We are on
14 item 28, correct?
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, we are.
16 MS. LEE: You know, I thought this was my
17 district. And in looking at the summary from
18 the Planning Department for this ordinance, it
19 says City Council district -- both of the
20 districts, and I want to know, why isn't that
21 listed in here?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Planning Department, do you
23 want to give us feedback on that?
24 MS. LEE: Everybody is saying they talked
25 to Mr. Holt.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I thought it was. I've got to know the
2 district lines. It's right here.
3 I would like to know, why is only
4 District 11 showing?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: According to the GIS map
6 that I just looked at, the outside border --
7 your district -- the outside border of the
8 entire project is in district 11, but your
9 district runs right up to the edge of the
10 property line.
11 MS. LEE: I think it's -- a part of this is
12 in 8. There's no question.
13 MR. CROFTS: Through the Chair to Ms. Lee,
14 in looking at our staff report dated December 4,
15 2007, council districts listed do include
16 Council District 8 as well as Council District
17 11. That's correct.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have that answer. I
19 don't know --
20 MS. LEE: He just told you. They were
21 verifying what I said was true, was correct.
22 Oh, I'm sorry, Mike. You meant that you
23 don't have an answer as to why it's not --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Why it's not on there.
25 MS. LEE: I apologize. I'm sorry.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: That's okay.
2 MS. LEE: Well, this sheet needs to, in the
3 future -- you know, if it's in the district I
4 represent too, then it seems to me that I would
5 have some input in this, output or input.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I agree with you.
7 MS. LEE: And it's only listing
8 District 11.
9 Who is responsible for putting this
10 together?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: The Planning Department has
12 more input that they'd like to --
13 MS. LEE: Well, I know I represent a
14 portion of that. I mean, I know where the
15 people vote. I know the precinct.
16 MR. KELLY: According to the -- through the
17 Chair, according to the GIS, it appears that
18 District 8 -- it basically comes up and touches
19 the property line of this overall parcel, but
20 it's not included within the boundaries of the
21 parcel. The entire parcel appears to be in
22 District 11.
23 MS. LEE: Yeah, but if it touches it, then
24 it's a part of it.
25 You-all rarely make any mistakes. I know
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 you wouldn't have put this here if it wasn't
2 true. I know where Garden Street is and I know
3 where the other street is, and I know it's
4 in 8.
5 Are you taking this up today?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: That's my goal.
7 (Ms. Lee confers with Mr. Kelly.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee, you still have the
9 floor.
10 MS. LEE: There's a part of it in it. It
11 might be minor, it might be teeny, but it's in
12 it.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember Shad.
14 MR. SHAD: This is going to be for Dylan.
15 (Inaudible discussion.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Whatever y'all want to
17 present, can you put it on the record for me,
18 please? It's on the floor instead of on the
19 record.
20 MR. CROFTS: For the record, to the
21 committee, the best available information that
22 we have -- I concur with our GIS mapping system
23 here -- shows that in the very southwestern
24 portion of this piece of property that --
25 southeastern, I'm sorry -- the southeastern
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 portion of this property does indicate that
2 there is a portion, a sliver of this property in
3 Council District 8.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember Shad,
5 you have the floor.
6 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
7 Through the Chairman, I guess, to Shannon
8 and/or Dylan. The original rezoning went
9 through the committee and was well debated
10 several years ago and then went to the full
11 council.
12 I believe -- I think I voted against it one
13 time and for it one time. I was really on the
14 fence.
15 When it's before us now -- what's before us
16 now, could you speak briefly about how -- is it
17 warranted to use the concern about the rezoning
18 and have that as criteria to consider for a
19 denial now?
20 (Mr. Reingold confers with Ms. Eller.)
21 MR. REINGOLD: I apologize for the delay,
22 sir. I just wanted to make sure that Ms. Eller
23 and I had an opportunity just to kind of briefly
24 speak.
25 Looking at the statute, there's a 30-day
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 time frame in which -- if someone wanted to
2 appeal a development order such as the rezoning,
3 that it be inconsistent with the comprehensive
4 plan. It's been a little more than 30 days, I
5 think, since that point.
6 I think Mr. Harden's argument was that the
7 underlying development and the rezoning was
8 inconsistent with the comp plan. And if that's
9 the argument he was making, I think it's a
10 little -- it's outside of his window now to try
11 to relitigate that or reargue that before this
12 commission -- or this body, sir.
13 MR. SHAD: But as committee members, I
14 imagine we could take that into consideration
15 when making a determination on this
16 legislation?
17 And that's fine. You don't -- I can handle
18 that answer myself, but I appreciate that.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have any other
21 speakers on the queue now.
22 Councilwoman Jones.
23 MS. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 To the staff, what's the difference in
25 what's being presented here tonight and what was
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
45
1 presented to us last time? Now that we've heard
2 two different scenarios.
3 MR. SMITH: Through the Chair -- Stephen
4 Smith.
5 The difference is that the first MOA, the
6 first development agreement that came through
7 had the -- included a residential component to
8 it for the 7- -- I believe it was about 749
9 single-family homes, and so that -- they dropped
10 out of that when they came in with the second
11 development agreement for the 40,000 square feet
12 of commercial only.
13 MS. JONES: When you say "they dropped out
14 of that," explain that one more time.
15 MR. SMITH: Sure.
16 When they filed their second Memorandum of
17 Agreement, it was for the commercial only and
18 not the residential. So it went from -- the
19 original MOA was for mixed use, combining both
20 the commercial and the residential.
21 The second MOA, when they came in with that
22 one -- because they didn't -- they realized they
23 didn't need the residential anymore, and so they
24 came in with just the commercial MOA.
25 MS. JONES: Okay.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilwoman
2 Jones.
3 Councilmember Webb.
4 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
5 To either the General Counsel or to
6 Planning --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: (Inaudible.)
8 MR. WEBB: I'll yield the floor to
9 Councilwoman Lee if she --
10 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
11 MR. WEBB: Okay. Mr. Harden -- I guess --
12 I apologize because I don't have the benefit of
13 institutional knowledge here. I wasn't around
14 when this came before the LUZ and the council
15 before.
16 Mr. Harden stated that this same applicant
17 or something substantially similar -- or
18 substantively the same as what's before us
19 tonight came before the council --
20 (Timer interruption.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry, your time is up.
22 MR. WEBB: Where's the hook? My three
23 minutes is up. Thank you.
24 All right. May 15th, 2007, Mr. Harden
25 states that -- something that was substantively
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 the same as what's before us was denied. Is
2 that accurate?
3 MS. ELLER: I can explain that, if you give
4 me just a moment to get myself led into it.
5 When you apply for concurrency, you all
6 know that you apply for a CCAS. And, in this
7 case, the applicant had two CCAS numbers. There
8 was a CCAS for residential and there was a CCAS
9 for commercial.
10 Now, if you're denied a CCAS, that's when
11 you go get a fair share. That's not what
12 happened here.
13 If you have a CCAS, you may get extensions
14 of your CCAS, but ultimately if you don't
15 convert your CCAS into a reservation
16 certificate, pull permits, and start bulldozing,
17 you have the opportunity to continue to hold on
18 to your trips by entering into a development
19 agreement.
20 Now, in the middle of that, after you get
21 your CCAS and you realize that you're not going
22 to immediately pull your permits and get a CRC,
23 but before you get your development agreement
24 passed by City Council, what you do in order to
25 hold on to those trips is you enter into what's
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
48
1 called this Memorandum of Agreement. It's
2 called an MOA. And what the MOA does is it
3 preserves the trips that you have held under
4 your CCAS application and continues to hold that
5 in -- hold your spot in the system until your
6 development agreement ultimately gets either
7 passed, denied, whatever.
8 What happened in this case is that the
9 applicant had an MOA for those two CCASs, the
10 residential and the commercial. They filed for
11 a development agreement for those two CCASs
12 together, the residential and the commercial.
13 The MOA that was in place to keep their spot in
14 line, still valid.
15 That development agreement for that thing
16 combined got denied. But while it was being
17 denied by the council, their Memorandum of
18 Agreement was still valid, holding their spot in
19 line.
20 So when Steve Smith says they dropped back
21 into their MOA -- when that development
22 agreement was denied by the council, they
23 dropped back into their MOA, which was holding
24 the spot in line for those two CCASs.
25 They realized that, for the residential
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
49
1 portion, they weren't going to try to extend the
2 holding on to of those trips. They just went
3 and pulled a CRC for residential.
4 The only thing that they need to now extend
5 and hold on to is that commercial portion.
6 So they have this MOA, which was still
7 holding their spot in line. They extended that
8 MOA, which is very common -- we extend MOAs
9 during the time that we're negotiating
10 development agreements -- and they applied for a
11 second and different development agreement,
12 which is only for that commercial portion.
13 So now they're before you with a
14 development agreement for the commercial CCAS.
15 It was originally two CCASs together under the
16 previous development agreement that was denied.
17 But during that whole time, they had this
18 Memorandum of Agreement in effect, in existence,
19 holding their spot back in the CMSO.
20 And, as Steve said, they fell back into
21 their MOA, looked at what their MOA was holding
22 on to, those two different CCASs, realized that
23 the residential portion was denied by you-all
24 because it was combined with the commercial,
25 went ahead and they -- I think they pulled a CRC
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
50
1 for residential development. So now those trips
2 are -- they've been used.
3 Now they want to just hold on to the trips
4 for the commercial portion as part of this
5 development agreement, and this development
6 agreement is only five years and with a more
7 detailed performance schedule as opposed to the
8 previous development agreement which combined
9 the commercial and residential, which was
10 requested for ten years.
11 And that system, as I understand it from
12 Steve Smith and the Planning Department, is not
13 uncommon, that people will go down a certain
14 route with CCAS numbers and the development
15 agreement, fall back to their MOA, reconfigure
16 the CCASs, come forward with a different
17 development agreement, combine CCASs from other
18 places and put them all together into a new and
19 different development agreement.
20 Now, that is not uncommon and that we
21 weren't doing anything that was strange or
22 treating them special. And there was no
23 requirement that after a development agreement
24 is denied, that they're out of line. As long as
25 they have that underlying Memorandum of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
51
1 Agreement still valid and hadn't expired, they
2 were able to fall back into it, make
3 adjustments, and move forward again with another
4 development agreement.
5 MR. WEBB: Through the Chair to Ms. Eller,
6 but the Memorandum of Agreement covered both the
7 commercial part of the project and the
8 residential?
9 MS. ELLER: Yes.
10 And then when they went -- their Memorandum
11 of Agreement was still valid, had not expired.
12 They came in and amended the Memorandum of
13 Agreement to remove the residential because now
14 they knew they were only moving forward with
15 commercial --
16 MR. WEBB: After the denial of the --
17 MS. ELLER: Correct, but before the
18 previous Memorandum of Agreement had expired, so
19 they still had the ability to come in and
20 request an amendment or a change to that MOA
21 because it was still valid.
22 And it was obviously after it had been
23 denied by council, they realized that the
24 residential portion -- they either had to pull a
25 CRC and move forward or -- or they weren't going
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
52
1 to be able to hold on to the trips any longer.
2 So they did choose to actually make a
3 concurrency reservation certificate, and they --
4 they've got their engineering and permitting
5 moving forward for residential.
6 MR. WEBB: Through the Chair to Ms. Eller,
7 are there any written policies from the Planning
8 Department -- you said the Planning Department.
9 Are there any written policies that cover this
10 type of situation? And are they in compliance
11 with those policies?
12 And I do reiterate "written policies."
13 MR. SMITH: Through the Chair, yes.
14 It's actually contained in the Memorandum
15 of Agreement, understanding that -- it
16 explicitly lays out the procedures and approvals
17 for that, for the amendment.
18 MR. WEBB: Okay. Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
20 Webb.
21 I have no other speakers in the queue. I
22 know Councilwoman Lee was --
23 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 Mr. Chairman, we have a more visual map,
25 and there is more than a sliver of this in the
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1 area that I represent. I think a sliver is like
2 a teeny-weeny piece.
3 I don't know what the wishes of the
4 committee is, but I'm going to ask that it be
5 deferred.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I can tell you that
7 the wish of the chairman is that -- it's been on
8 the agenda since November 13th, and I'd like to
9 move it out.
10 MS. LEE: Well, Mr. Chairman, I hear you,
11 but I have not been -- I have not been treated
12 fairly as a district councilperson.
13 A portion of this is in District 8, which I
14 initially thought. But going by this, it
15 misrepresents it. And I am a councilperson who
16 represents a portion of this, and I should have
17 an opportunity to ask questions or be involved
18 or something. You know, I -- that's all I'm
19 asking, Mr. Chairman, and I think that's only
20 fair.
21 Obviously, they have only talked to one
22 councilperson about this, and that's been
23 Mr. Holt.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I understand that.
25 MS. LEE: And I think in all courtesy to me
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1 as part -- a portion of the district
2 councilperson, I would ask that it be deferred.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, that's typically --
4 when a district councilperson asks for a
5 deferral, typically I would handle it at this
6 committee.
7 I'm upset to find out at this late hour
8 that it includes -- that you're -- you're a
9 district councilperson, and I understand -- I
10 mean, I've seen four different versions and all
11 that, so -- that's very upsetting to me, that --
12 especially when I extend the rules for longer
13 items of debate and then run into -- that's
14 extremely aggravating to the Chair.
15 But having said that, the way that this
16 committee operates and the respect they have for
17 the district councilperson, I don't think we
18 have too much of a choice this evening. But to
19 defer this item, that's very -- but it's very
20 aggravating to me as the chairman of this
21 committee to do that because, as I said, there's
22 been so much time put in by this committee at
23 this point.
24 Councilmember Lee.
25 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I hear what you're
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1 saying.
2 I have one question. Have Mr. Harden and
3 Mr. Hainline attempted to work something out at
4 this point?
5 I heard Mr. Hainline's comments, and I'm
6 just wondering, are they going to try to work
7 something out to -- no one has talked to me
8 about it.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm happy to have
10 Mr. Hainline answer that question if he's
11 willing to answer it.
12 MS. LEE: And let me just say for the
13 record, Mr. Chairman, my deep concern -- why I
14 asked for this deferral.
15 As you know, a lot of times when you don't
16 think that things are going to fall back on you,
17 things happen. Someone could easily say in the
18 future, well, Ms. Lee let such and such happen
19 or Ms. Lee didn't say anything. And I have not
20 had any input into this issue.
21 If I vote on it, that's well and good. But
22 inasmuch as I'm a partial representative, any
23 repercussions, I'm probably -- you know, will be
24 a part of that, and I think that I should be
25 able to at least cover myself by at least being
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1 knowledgeable as a representative. And after
2 then, then let the chips fall where they may.
3 So that's really my deep concern as a
4 representative, that I don't think that I have
5 sufficiently represented this issue.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Hainline, do you
7 want to respond to her question, please?
8 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
9 MR. HAINLINE: First, let me apologize.
10 My only source of information is the GIS
11 map, and I actually printed off the GIS map.
12 And if there's other information that shows that
13 it lies within your district, I apologize I
14 didn't get with you, Ms. Lee.
15 The GIS map shows it bordering but not
16 encroaching on, and if -- again, that's the only
17 source of information available to me. So I
18 apologize if I didn't get with you.
19 In response to the question will Mr. Harden
20 and I work it out, I won't go through the -- I
21 won't go through all our discussions, no point
22 in that, but at least as of right now, I would
23 say there's absolutely zero chance that there's
24 any workout, and I'm happy to go -- between
25 Mr. Harden and myself. I'm happy to go into
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1 detail in that if you would like.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: No. I believe the question
3 was has there been an attempt to work it out,
4 and I --
5 MR. HAINLINE: Oh, yes, ma'am.
6 Mr. Harden and I, who are friends and will
7 still be friends after this, have been talking
8 about it to each other since before this came
9 up, since back before we even -- since back when
10 it first came up to the committee in November or
11 December. We've been talking about it fairly
12 continuously. And so, yes, we have talked about
13 it many, many times.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Lee.
15 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Corrigan.
16 Well, again, I'm going to ask for the
17 deferral, but I have a more -- another
18 question.
19 How could this error have happened? And I
20 don't -- I'm not being negative towards the
21 Planning Department because I recognize errors
22 can happen, you know, so -- but if it's one
23 thing on the -- what do you-all call this?
24 MR. KELLY: The staff report.
25 MS. LEE: The staff report.
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1 Then -- the staff report is indicative of a
2 lot of times what we use to, you know, get
3 particular information because on the actual
4 agenda it's not particular. Of course, there
5 are other things.
6 How could this have happened, through the
7 Chair?
8 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to
9 Councilmember Lee, I would just say, I mean, in
10 our staff report, we did reflect that it was
11 part of both council districts.
12 The notifications that went out, I'm -- I
13 wasn't able to see on the notifications if they
14 reflected both council districts.
15 MS. LEE: Because, Mr. Chairman, what would
16 be a problem is -- and this is even a deeper
17 concern, and that's why I want to dig a little
18 further into it.
19 I think that the Planning Department was
20 correct in their staff report. So they were not
21 in error. I guess whoever puts the agenda
22 together -- my question would be, the agenda,
23 the way it reads for a particular item, who puts
24 that together? Where is that information
25 derived from?
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1 MS. ELLER: That information comes from the
2 legislation, and the legislation that came over
3 indicated it was in District 11 because the GIS
4 map that's accessible online, which may not be,
5 obviously, the same as the GIS map that is used
6 internally in the Planning Department, had that
7 shading offset to the right a little bit, so it
8 looked like that line that came down wasn't
9 included in -- didn't overlap into that
10 particular line on the property.
11 That little triangular shading is shifted
12 over to the right on the GIS map that --
13 MS. LEE: That's incorrect.
14 MS. ELLER: Yeah.
15 So I think that the Planning Department has
16 an internal access GIS, which is different from
17 the GIS that's accessible on the Internet.
18 MS. LEE: Okay, Ms. Eller, but --
19 Mr. Chairman, I'm going to try to get -- I'm
20 very concerned about this.
21 Then what is -- how -- I guess when you
22 say -- Legislative Services actually puts the
23 agenda together, correct?
24 MS. ELLER: Well, they get the information
25 from whatever information is available on the
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1 GIS mapping system. So they're going to get it
2 from the Planning Department that sends the
3 application over to OGC, which files the
4 legislation.
5 MS. LEE: Okay. So the actual legislation
6 is filed by the Office of the General Counsel?
7 MS. ELLER: Yes, and we rely on the
8 information from the Planning Department.
9 MS. LEE: Okay. So let me ask this, then:
10 All information pertinent to any particular
11 issue is submitted to your office, correct?
12 MS. ELLER: Uh-huh.
13 MS. LEE: Okay. Did you receive this staff
14 report?
15 MS. ELLER: I did not receive the staff
16 report. That staff report comes out much later
17 than when we file the legislation.
18 I received the application, which has the
19 development agreement attached to it, and in it
20 there is a map. And on it, the map, according
21 to the GIS, was that GIS map that has that
22 triangle shifted off to the right, which shows
23 that it's not in District 8. And that staff
24 report comes out much later, after the
25 legislation is already filed.
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1 MS. LEE: Mike, I know this is taking a
2 minute, but I appreciate your patience.
3 Then after the Office of General Counsel
4 then files -- then submits that information to
5 Legislative Services. And then, at some point,
6 who then sees the staff report?
7 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
8 MS. LEE: You never receive it? The
9 General Counsel's Office never sees this
10 information?
11 MS. ELLER: We see the staff report, and
12 if -- but the error that was there was not
13 identified until someone that's reviewing it
14 cross-checks it. And we did not see that that
15 was -- that there was a difference. We did not
16 see that, that there was a difference on there
17 because the maps that we check showed it not --
18 MS. LEE: I'm not talking about the maps.
19 I'm talking about the actual paper.
20 MS. ELLER: Yeah. I did not see that staff
21 report until last week -- two weeks ago.
22 MS. LEE: Till two weeks ago?
23 MS. ELLER: And I did not -- when I saw the
24 staff report, I did not check the district
25 against what was in the bill. I relied upon the
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1 map that I checked on the computer when I filed
2 it and I didn't go back and double-check it.
3 MS. LEE: Well, let me say this -- and I
4 recognize that we're all human and mistakes are
5 possible, and -- but it would seem to me that
6 if, in fact, one thing was seen somewhere else
7 and then seen here, somewhere it should have
8 been noted to somebody and they should have
9 said, "We have a problem."
10 And I say that because at the end of the
11 day, we -- things fall back on the person that's
12 elected. This could sometimes prove to be very
13 bad.
14 And then it leads to another question. Did
15 people in District 8 receive notification --
16 proper notification? You know, I don't know.
17 You know, how would I know that, when, in fact,
18 from what I'm hearing, it goes here, it goes
19 there, it goes there. And even though you note
20 it, no one thought it was necessary to notify
21 somebody, oh, stop for a minute.
22 So I'm just trying to find out, then, and I
23 don't know who I would -- who is responsible for
24 the notifications that go to people living
25 within X number of feet of the proposed site?
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1 MS. ELLER: The Planning Department.
2 MR. SMITH: Staff does that, through the
3 Chair. We do a 350 search and send out the
4 notices to all the residents within 350 feet.
5 So that didn't change anything with -- in this
6 particular case.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: And, for the record, I
8 believe in part of your package it shows the
9 350 radius they used in this development.
10 MS. LEE: Okay. Well -- but I know this,
11 Mike, seems a little technical, but if they're
12 relying on certain information and someone saw
13 that -- I mean, in other words, there is nothing
14 that indicates that a district council number is
15 used when you send the 350 out? In other words,
16 that is not -- that is not an issue?
17 MS. ELLER: You're correct.
18 The 350 feet is measured from the property
19 line, and the database that is used to populate
20 the list of addresses is purely based upon the
21 names attached to the piece of dirt that is
22 350 feet from the line, not which district it's
23 in.
24 MS. LEE: Okay. Well, Mr. Chairman, again,
25 I don't think I received any calls. I'm not
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1 sure, but I really feel -- I would, you know,
2 ask that this item be deferred. You know, at
3 least I'm on record, you know, and I will have
4 an opportunity.
5 And if for some reason -- which it may not
6 happen -- if someone wants to ask a question of
7 Ms. Lee, why you didn't do this, or, Denise,
8 whatever, at least I will be able to respond
9 intelligently by at least having looked into
10 it.
11 As it stands now, you know, I just -- other
12 than hearing things on the street, but I've not
13 sat down and asked kind of -- for instance, what
14 came up today, that even members of this
15 committee had input before, when this came up
16 before and it was voted on before, you know,
17 those kind of things, you know, and the
18 reasoning why it was done.
19 I think Mr. Shad asked a question just now,
20 Ms. Jones, what's the difference between then
21 and now. I think those things are very
22 pertinent, you know, and I now represent the
23 area. And if nothing else, I want to know.
24 And I don't want to hold up the meeting or
25 delay the meeting, Mr. Corrigan, and I think
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1 those are very technical questions. And if I
2 have the opportunity, I can get some answers.
3 You know, I'm not trying to say I'm for or
4 against it, I just don't know about it, and it
5 seems to be a very tight -- a little
6 controversial.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I would agree with that
8 assessment.
9 MS. LEE: So I just wanted -- Mr. Chairman,
10 I hate to ask you to deviate from what you
11 wanted to do. I understand that, but I do thank
12 you for doing it.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, in the time that
14 you've been speaking, I've had a chance to look
15 at both the agenda we're looking at and the
16 report from the Planning Department, and they're
17 not the same.
18 The agenda shows District 11 and the
19 Planning Department report shows two districts,
20 and I respect -- you are a district
21 councilperson, part of the Planning Department
22 report. So based on that -- I mean, the
23 standard procedure of this committee is that we
24 will defer the item at the request of the
25 district councilperson.
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1 So having said that -- and it is not a
2 quasi-judicial matter that would get us in a
3 little bit more precarious position. So, based
4 on that, I'm going to defer it -- very
5 frustratedly, I will defer it because we've
6 spent a great deal of time on this issue
7 already. And I appreciate the committee's
8 patience as we try to work through this, and I
9 appreciate the applicant and the opposition
10 understanding of that decision.
11 So with having said that, we'll go back and
12 instead of closing the public hearing, we will
13 continue the public hearing.
14 Ms. Lee, I would ask you to please do your
15 best effort to get -- in the next two weeks. I
16 really want to move this off our agenda, vote it
17 up or down. So I'd appreciate your --
18 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I appreciate
20 your commitment to do that prior to the next
21 meeting.
22 So that public hearing is continued with no
23 further action.
24 Committee members, we're still on page 9,
25 bottom of the page. 2007-1230 is deferred.
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1 Page 10. Item 30, 2007-1248, is deferred.
2 Item 31, 2007-1305. We will open that
3 public hearing.
4 We have one speaker card, Mr. Charles Mann.
5 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 MR. MANN: Good evening, Mr. Chairman,
8 members of the committee.
9 Charles Mann, 165 Arlington Road,
10 representing the landowner.
11 This property has been before you several
12 times before tonight. Nothing has changed from
13 the previous approval that y'all granted to this
14 site except the size of the building. We're
15 increasing it from 45,000 square feet to
16 72,000 square feet, and we'd seek your
17 approval. We know of no opposition that we
18 have.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Mann.
21 I see no further speakers, so we'll close
22 that public hearing.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
24 MR. WEBB: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
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1 amendment.
2 Could I have an explanation of the
3 amendment, please.
4 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
5 The amendment consists of seven conditions,
6 and they are as follows:
7 Number 1, "The developer shall be subject
8 to the original legal description dated November
9 20, 2007."
10 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
11 to the original written description dated
12 November 20, 2007."
13 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
14 to the revised site plan dated January 24,
15 2008."
16 Number 4, "The required transportation
17 improvements shall be made in accordance with
18 the Development Services memorandum dated
19 December 17, 2007, and the Transportation
20 Planning section memorandum dated January 3rd,
21 2007, or as otherwise approved by the Planning
22 and Development Department."
23 Number 5, "The maximum building height
24 shall be two stories and 35 feet in height to
25 the peak of the roof."
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1 Number 6, "Drive-through banks and
2 restaurants may be permitted through a minor
3 modification application. Service or filling
4 stations and outside sales and service other
5 than holiday items shall be prohibited."
6 Number 7, "The entrance drive shall be
7 reconfigured with an extended throat length for
8 the uninterrupted parking lot ingress and
9 egress."
10 That's it. Thank you.
11 (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
13 Mr. Mann, are you in agreement?
14 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, I believe we are.
15 I'd like to ask Mr. Crofts, through the Chair,
16 one question.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
18 MR. MANN: You talked about the written
19 description. Did the written description, on
20 the date that he mentioned, represent the
21 72,000 square feet that was denoted at the
22 Planning Commission hearing?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Crofts.
24 MR. KELLY: The written description dated
25 November 20th indicates 60,000 square feet.
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1 MR. MANN: I believe the -- at the Planning
2 Commission, it was denoted that it was to be
3 72,000 square foot. I don't know whether we
4 need to make that as an amendment or it was made
5 up to 72,000 square feet.
6 MR. KELLY: We would be fine with just
7 adding -- I guess, instead of replacing the
8 written description, just adding another
9 condition, basically allowing for the enclosed
10 square feet not to exceed 72,000.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we need to do that in the
12 form of an amendment to that?
13 MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Or can it just be written
15 in?
16 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: It can all be incorporated.
18 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, we'd be in
19 agreement to that, yes, sir.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion and a
21 second on the amendment.
22 Any discussion?
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor,
25 please say aye.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
2 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
3 MR. SHAD: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion and second
5 on 2007-1305 as amended.
6 Any discussion?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
12 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
13 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
17 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, committee, thank
18 you all very much.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Mann.
20 2007-1306, we will --
21 I'm sorry. By your action, you've approved
22 2007-1305.
23 I'm sorry. I had to ask them to change my
24 vote on that. 2007-1305 is approved.
25 2007-1306. We will open the public
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1 hearing. We have one speaker, Mr. Peter Onken.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Onken, if you'll state
4 your name and address for the record, please.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
6 Peter Onken, 2727 North Central, Phoenix,
7 85004, on behalf of the owner.
8 I'm for the project. And if there's any
9 questions, I'm happy to answer.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We appreciate that.
11 Seeing no other speakers, we will close the
12 public hearing.
13 Do I have a motion on the amendment?
14 MR. SHAD: Move the amendment.
15 MS. JONES: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
17 amendment.
18 Mr. Crofts.
19 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
20 The amendment is as follows:
21 "The development shall be subject to the
22 original legal description dated October 10,
23 2007."
24 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
25 to the original written description dated
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1 October 10, 2007."
2 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
3 to the original site plan dated September,
4 2007."
5 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
6 to the review and approval of the Development
7 Services Division memorandum dated December 9,
8 2007, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority
9 memorandum dated December 13, 2007, or as
10 otherwise approved by the Development Services
11 Division, the FDOT, JTA, and the Planning and
12 Development Department."
13 Number 5, "The 8-foot-high fence along the
14 east property line shall not be required. The
15 rear elevations of the storage building and
16 landscaping, per section 656.1216, may be used
17 to satisfy the visual screening requirements."
18 Number 6, "The development shall be subject
19 to section 656.401(G), 1 through 7 of the zoning
20 code. A hedge shall be installed to visually
21 screen truck storage display from 103rd Street,
22 subject to the review and approval of the
23 Planning and Development Department."
24 That concludes the amendment.
25 (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Sir, do you
2 understand those conditions and agree to them?
3 MR. ONKEN: Yes, we do.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
5 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
6 amendment signal by saying aye.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
12 MR. SHAD: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
14 2007-1306 as amended.
15 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
16 record the vote.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
20 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
21 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you just
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1 approved 2007-1306.
2 2007-1307. Open that public hearing. We
3 have one speaker, Paige Johnston, who I do not
4 see at this point.
5 So she was here in support. We'll close
6 that public hearing.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
8 MR. SHAD: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second
10 on the amendment to 2007-1307.
11 MR. CROFTS: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
12 The amendment is as follows:
13 "The development shall be subject to the
14 original legal description dated November 9,
15 2007."
16 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
17 to original written description dated
18 November 9, 2007."
19 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
20 to the original site plan dated November 6,
21 2007."
22 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
23 to the review and approval of the Development
24 Management Services memorandum dated January 23,
25 2008, or as otherwise approved by the Planning
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1 and Development Department."
2 Number 5, "Lighting shall be designed and
3 installed so as to be directed downward and
4 reflect back to the subject property, prevent
5 glare and/or excessive light onto the
6 surrounding property. Light fixtures mounted on
7 canopies shall be recessed so that the lens
8 cover is flush with the bottom surface or
9 ceiling of the canopy."
10 Sixth and finally, "The development shall
11 be subject to the City of Jacksonville
12 commercial design guidelines for elements such
13 as architecture, lighting, signage, and
14 pedestrian design."
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
17 Ms. Johnston, we're discussing 2007-1307.
18 Just want to make sure you agree with those
19 conditions.
20 (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)
21 MS. JOHNSTON: Paige Johnston, 1301
22 Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the
23 applicant.
24 Gosh, we move quickly after we get over a
25 few things.
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1 Yes, we are in agreement -- we are
2 agreeable to the conditions.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
4 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
5 amendment signal by saying aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
11 MS. JONES: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
13 2007-1307 as amended.
14 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
15 record the vote.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
18 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
19 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
20 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
25 approved 2007-1307.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MS. JOHNSTON: Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Good job. Thank you.
3 Top of page 11, item 34, 2007-1308. We
4 will open that public hearing. We have three
5 speaker cards: Douglas Hudson, followed by Jeff
6 Thompson, followed by E.J. Shrowder.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, sir. Thank
10 you for having me.
11 My name is Douglas Hudson, 225 Water
12 Street, Suite 110, here in Jacksonville,
13 representing the owner and applicant in this
14 matter.
15 We have had -- if I could give you a brief
16 bit of background. This property that is in
17 question before this committee tonight is a
18 small parcel that has been carved off of a much
19 larger parcel owned by a broadcasting company,
20 Cox Radio, Incorporated. This is their former
21 studios, which they moved out of some years ago,
22 relocated to another area of town. They have
23 held on to the studios, the building, and
24 perhaps for future use.
25 But through vandalism in the neighborhood,
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1 the interior of the building was burned and has
2 been rendered unusable. The building has since
3 been secured, but there continues to be
4 vandalism in the area.
5 And, at this time, in an effort to sort of
6 help the neighborhood, the owner would like to
7 bring this building back up to grade, gut the
8 interior, renovate it and put it back to office
9 use.
10 There's a liability issue for having this
11 building in its current condition, a serious
12 liability issue for Cox Radio, which is a rather
13 large company. And I might add that the
14 vandalism extends beyond the building itself.
15 The entire parcel also contains what's commonly
16 referred to as a transmitter shack, a smaller
17 building that literally houses AM radio
18 transmitters as well as five AM radio station
19 aerials or towers. Those too have all been
20 vandalized.
21 So we would ask that this council give
22 serious consideration to allowing us to
23 redevelop this, put the building and the
24 property back into use and have some activity
25 there at least five or six days a week that
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 hopefully through that, as well as security
2 patrols, which Cox is currently paying for,
3 would eliminate a good deal of this vandalism
4 and, quite frankly, begin to improve that area.
5 I'm happy to answer any questions you might
6 have.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you. I
8 don't see any questions at this point.
9 Jeff Thompson.
10 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
13 Jeff Thompson, 1942 Hamilton Street.
14 I own a small construction company and I
15 hope to buy this piece of property and renovate
16 it and put my construction company onto the
17 site. We are going to secure the site, clean it
18 up, and hopefully make the whole neighborhood a
19 little bit better.
20 There's another site on that easement that
21 is a screen and thread. They do screens,
22 T-shirts, hats. And they've had a lot of
23 security problems. And we hope to clean the
24 whole street up and help the whole neighborhood.
25 Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Mr. Thompson, could you come back?
3 Councilwoman Lee has a question for you.
4 MR. THOMPSON: (Complies.)
5 MS. LEE: The gentleman that spoke before
6 you didn't indicate that they were selling the
7 property. Do you know why?
8 MR. THOMPSON: He didn't indicate it?
9 MS. LEE: No. He said that Cox -- I
10 thought he said that Cox was going to clean it
11 up.
12 MR. THOMPSON: They're going to clean up
13 their parcel of it. The whole parcel is
14 22 acres. They're selling 1.5 acres to myself.
15 MS. LEE: But he didn't even mention that.
16 I'd just like to know why they didn't say they
17 were selling it.
18 MR. THOMPSON: I think he said they were
19 going to try to carve this small portion out. I
20 don't know exactly what he said. But, yes, they
21 are selling it.
22 MS. LEE: Okay. When you say
23 "construction," what will be -- what are you
24 proposing to put on the site?
25 MR. THOMPSON: We are --
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1 MS. LEE: And how much residential -- where
2 is this located? Could you just kind of tell me
3 where it's located.
4 MR. THOMPSON: Do you know where the
5 Wal-Mart is on Normandy?
6 MS. LEE: Yes.
7 MR. THOMPSON: It's the radio towers behind
8 it, but you access it from the next road over on
9 Lenox.
10 MS. LEE: Oh, okay. How much residential
11 is adjacent to it? Any at all?
12 MR. THOMPSON: There is some. There is
13 some, some commercial, and I believe there's a
14 church.
15 MS. LEE: No, I said residential.
16 MR. THOMPSON: Yes.
17 MS. LEE: Is it a lot?
18 MR. THOMPSON: There is some residential
19 but not much, and it's across a ditch and there
20 is a big barrier there.
21 MS. LEE: Okay. When you say
22 "construction," what are you proposing to put
23 on the site?
24 MR. THOMPSON: I run a construction
25 company, and I would consider myself a paper
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1 contractor. We don't have bulldozers, we don't
2 have equipment. We just do the paperwork and
3 the overseeing.
4 MS. LEE: The what, sir?
5 MR. THOMPSON: The paperwork and the
6 overseeing of the construction sites.
7 MS. LEE: Okay. Have you -- was there a
8 need to post signs up?
9 MR. THOMPSON: Yes.
10 MS. LEE: Okay. Did you hear anything --
11 well, you wouldn't be the person to ask.
12 MR. THOMPSON: No.
13 MS. LEE: The Cox people would.
14 Let me get him back up to the mic.
15 MR. THOMPSON: Okay.
16 MS. LEE: Please, Mr. Chairman.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hudson, if you'd come
18 back up and answer questions, please.
19 (Mr. Hudson approaches the podium.)
20 MR. HUDSON: Certainly.
21 And I apologize if I wasn't clear. I
22 thought I did say that we were -- the parcel in
23 question is being carved out of the much larger
24 parcel, just the office building and some of the
25 parking lot.
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1 MS. LEE: You never mentioned you were
2 going to sell it, but that's neither here nor
3 there.
4 Did you have any responses from any of the
5 residential?
6 MR. HUDSON: To?
7 MS. LEE: People to --
8 MR. HUDSON: No, ma'am.
9 MS. LEE: Nobody has complained?
10 MR. HUDSON: No, ma'am.
11 MS. LEE: Okay. All right. That's all I
12 wanted to know.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 MR. HUDSON: Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hudson.
16 MS. LEE: Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Our last speaker is E.J.
18 Shrowder.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: How you doing?
22 My name is E.J. Shrowder. I live at 6873
23 Lenox Avenue.
24 I purchased this property back in March of
25 last year.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Could you speak a little
2 more into that microphone, please.
3 MR. SHROWDER: Yes.
4 I purchased this property about -- in March
5 of last year. And when I was checking this
6 property out, I was told that the property was
7 used only for radio use, signals, output, and
8 it's a dead-end road. And they don't have no
9 easement way, they don't have no landscape.
10 There's zero back there. And there's a lot of
11 people that lives there. There's a lot of
12 traffic. There's -- the highway patrol gives
13 20 to 30 tickets out between Memorial Park and
14 Old Middleburg.
15 Also, there's a lot of residences around
16 there. The whole area is confined with
17 residences and commercial. And I live right on
18 the corner where this property is going in, and
19 I do not want no more traffic coming through
20 this property.
21 That's it.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
23 Sir, Councilwoman Lee has a question for
24 you. Mr. Shrowder.
25 MS. LEE: Good evening. You are a neighbor
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1 adjacent to this proposed site, correct?
2 MR. SHROWDER: I'm right on -- I'm on the
3 corner of that street. That's not a street.
4 That's an easeway [sic].
5 MS. LEE: Okay. Are you opposed to what
6 they're proposing to do?
7 MR. SHROWDER: Yes, I am. Very much.
8 MS. LEE: Are there other neighbors out
9 there opposed that you know of?
10 MR. SHROWDER: I really -- my ex-wife lives
11 there. I have grandkids that -- that's -- they
12 don't have no parks, they don't have no
13 sidewalks, and that road right there is used to
14 been for kids to play on.
15 MS. LEE: Had you talked to the property
16 owners about this?
17 MR. SHROWDER: When I bought that property
18 in March --
19 MS. LEE: No, I mean, the property owners.
20 MR. SHROWDER: I didn't know that -- see, I
21 didn't even get a letter like you didn't get a
22 letter. I didn't get a letter neither.
23 MS. LEE: Through the Chair to Planning, is
24 he within 350 feet?
25 MR. SHROWDER: Yes, I am.
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1 MS. LEE: And you did not receive a
2 letter?
3 MR. SHROWDER: No, ma'am.
4 MR. KELLY: Any property owner within
5 350 feet of the --
6 MR. SHROWDER: No, they wasn't -- no, I
7 didn't receive one.
8 MR. KELLY: It's a landlocked parcel, the
9 one acre, which was based on the notification,
10 not the overall parcel that it was being cut out
11 of. But it appears, if they're on the corner,
12 that they would be within the 350 feet as well.
13 MS. LEE: And he didn't receive the
14 letter.
15 MR. SHROWDER: And this was purchased in
16 March of last year, so I should have received
17 the letter.
18 MR. KELLY: Yes. The notifications are
19 updated, I believe, in our database about twice
20 a year. So if he had purchased the property in
21 March, it may not have been updated.
22 MS. LEE: You mean like March of '07?
23 MR. SHROWDER: Right.
24 MS. LEE: When was this sent out? I would
25 think that it would be updated on a regular
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1 basis. You wouldn't wait six months to update
2 something.
3 MR. SHROWDER: Could I ask another
4 question? Who's the City Councilor of that
5 district?
6 MS. LEE: Just one moment.
7 MR. SHROWDER: I thought Mr. Jones was.
8 MS. LEE: Sir.
9 MR. SHROWDER: I was told Mr. Jones was
10 the --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: No, it's Council President
12 Davis's district.
13 MS. LEE: Daniel Davis, based on what's on
14 here.
15 MR. SHROWDER: Maybe that's why he didn't
16 return my calls.
17 MR. KELLY: The address -- the property was
18 noticed, but it was addressed -- the
19 notification was sent to a Lisa Pulley at that
20 parcel number, 6873 Lenox.
21 MR. SHROWDER: She's the one that has the
22 thread company, Screens & Threads company.
23 MS. LEE: We can't hear you. What?
24 MR. SHROWDER: She's the one that has the
25 Screens & Threads company.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: What is your address, sir?
2 MR. SHROWDER: 6873 Lenox Avenue.
3 MR. KELLY: They did a notification to 6873
4 Lenox Avenue. It's --
5 MR. SHROWDER: No. I actually called
6 downtown and they said they didn't send it out
7 to me.
8 MS. LEE: I'm not going to weigh in on
9 this. It's not in my district, but I do have to
10 vote on these things. And I don't even know if
11 Mr. Davis is even aware that there is some
12 concern. I think the gentleman makes a point.
13 I'm not opposed, you know, one way or the
14 other.
15 But, again, you know, when these people
16 don't receive these notifications -- and I know
17 our Planning Department does the best job that
18 they can. What do we do in circumstances like
19 this? You know, do you give people an
20 opportunity to try to see if they can talk or
21 something, you know?
22 MR. KELLY: According to the Duval County
23 public records, the courthouse page, she was the
24 owner as of April 10 of 2007. So it was noticed
25 correctly if the gentleman purchased the
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1 property from her at some point after that. Our
2 records just haven't been updated yet.
3 MS. LEE: But when was the notices sent
4 out? That's all I'm asking.
5 MR. KELLY: The notices were sent out
6 timely and correctly.
7 MS. LEE: When though? I just need to know
8 the date.
9 MR. SHROWDER: About two weeks prior.
10 MR. KELLY: It looks like the notice was
11 published January 11th.
12 MS. LEE: Of '08?
13 MR. KELLY: Correct.
14 MS. LEE: That's no excuse to me. If the
15 person moved out in April -- May, June, July,
16 August, September, October, November,
17 December -- that's eight months. Does the
18 courthouse then update their records?
19 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
20 It's still not updated, but it is the most
21 up-to-date that we do have.
22 MS. LEE: That you-all have?
23 MR. KELLY: Correct.
24 MS. LEE: So you-all get your addresses
25 from them. And within an eight-month period
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 that could happen is what you're saying?
2 MR. KELLY: It has happened, yes.
3 MS. LEE: What brought you down here? You
4 saw the signs?
5 MR. SHROWDER: Right. I called and asked
6 when they were having a meeting. And I asked
7 them when they sent mine out, and they said they
8 didn't send it out.
9 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, again, it's not my
10 district, but I'm on the committee. I don't
11 know. You know, I don't if the gentleman can
12 talk --
13 MR. SHROWDER: They're also having another
14 meeting February 8th, but I ain't going to be
15 able to be in town. So I'd like to get that
16 and -- if I can get -- get it referred to a
17 different date.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: What bill are you speaking
19 of?
20 Step up to the microphone. We still can't
21 hear you.
22 MR. SHROWDER: I'd like to have -- they
23 have one February 8th that they're going to try
24 to get another waiver for property landscaping,
25 5-foot landscaping that they trying to get to
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1 zero.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me go to Mr. Kelly and
3 the Planning Department.
4 MR. KELLY: Yes. Thank you.
5 There is a companion administration
6 deviation application that goes along with
7 this. That will not be heard until the outcome
8 of this waiver of road frontage is decided. So
9 whatever the council decides to do as far as
10 deferring it or hearing it tonight will depend
11 on whether the AD gets heard or not.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll get Councilman
13 Yarborough for the first time.
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 Mr. Shrowder, since you're still up,
16 actually, I noticed in the report here, it's --
17 when the Planning Department inspected the
18 property on January 29th, it said the sign
19 wasn't posted. But you mentioned you did see a
20 sign. Has that been within the last week?
21 MR. SHROWDER: It's been tore down. The
22 signs has been tore down. They've been tore
23 down probably a week after they was put up.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. But at one pint,
25 you did see them up?
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1 MR. SHROWDER: Right, I did.
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: So there was
3 notification. Okay. I appreciate that.
4 Thank you.
5 The other thing I noticed, Mr. Chairman,
6 that on the GIS it shows -- I think the lady's
7 name who owns 6861 did receive a notice.
8 And is there a list over there, Mr. Kelly
9 or Mr. Huxford, that you-all have that shows who
10 received the notification that are within, I
11 guess, the 350 feet?
12 I was just going to ask if the -- there's a
13 few other adjacent parcels -- 6841, -51 and
14 -57 -- that are right along in there, in that
15 same area too, and I was going to ask if those
16 individuals had received the notices because I
17 notice Ms. Pulley's property is actually within
18 the PUD and also the CGC land use that the
19 property that we're talking about is within, and
20 would that have been why she might have received
21 it and Mr. Shrowder and others may not have
22 received it.
23 MR. KELLY: There were a total of 33
24 notices that were sent out. The addresses on
25 the Lenox -- Lisa Pulley, Robert Parker, Will
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1 Pace, Lisa Baron Pulley on another parcel off of
2 Lenox, Charles Swenson, Wade Mead.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Is Goldston (phonetic) on
4 there, Doris Goldston?
5 MR. KELLY: Yes, she is.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And, really, I just
7 ask not for a complete list, but Mr. Shrowder is
8 right along in there, kind of in the same area,
9 and I guess he should have received word too,
10 you know, when that was done.
11 So I just wanted to try to clarify it a
12 little bit, Mr. Chairman. I don't know --
13 Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 Councilwoman Lee.
16 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, do we know the
17 position of the district councilperson?
18 I guess I would ask the gentleman that's
19 representing Cox or somebody, does the district
20 councilman, is he aware that there are some
21 concerns from a neighbor and their concerns?
22 Or has anybody talked to Mr. Davis on this
23 issue or does he have a --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I will ask Mr. Hudson to
25 weigh in on that, if you would, please.
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1 (Mr. Hudson approaches the podium.)
2 MR. HUDSON: Thank you.
3 I'm not sure if Councilman Davis is aware
4 of any objections at all. I know that I have
5 personally met with Mr. Davis and he hadn't any
6 objection. He recognized what we were trying to
7 do here.
8 And, if I may, if I'm not out of turn --
9 you-all tell me. I'm not sure about the
10 protocol, but I'd like to expound just a bit
11 along what the resident there was talking about
12 as far as traffic and stuff since he hasn't been
13 a longtime resident of the area. May I?
14 MS. LEE: Speak up, please.
15 MR. HUDSON: May I expound or sort of speak
16 to what he was talking about?
17 MS. LEE: Yeah, go ahead.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
19 MR. HUDSON: The traffic, actually, that
20 will be generated by the intended use, which --
21 and also to clarify -- and I'm sorry if I'm not
22 making it clear about carving off this piece,
23 which is just the building, which is currently
24 actually under lease to Mr. Thompson. He simply
25 approached Cox and said, "I'd like to buy it
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1 instead of continuing to lease it."
2 So that's that situation. There isn't
3 anything underhanded going on.
4 MS. LEE: Did someone suggest there was?
5 MR. HUDSON: No, ma'am, but I felt that
6 there was some negative connotation to the way
7 it was presented earlier as far as
8 Mr. Thompson's relationship to Cox, and I just
9 wanted to clarify that.
10 But the traffic actually generated by --
11 MS. LEE: I hope I didn't give you that
12 impression because that certainly wasn't my
13 intent.
14 MR. HUDSON: No, ma'am. I just wanted to
15 clarify that and amplify.
16 MS. LEE: Okay.
17 MR. HUDSON: The traffic generated by
18 Mr. Thompson's use will be far less than the
19 traffic that had been generated when this was an
20 active radio station building.
21 My understanding is that before the radio
22 stations relocated -- which it housed four or
23 five -- there were a hundred-plus employees in
24 that building. I'm not sure how many
25 Mr. Thompson has, but I'm quite certain it would
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1 never approach that.
2 And I actually had conversations with the
3 Planning staff about amending this application
4 to specifically address the issues that staff
5 had, and I don't know if y'all want to speak to
6 that with staff.
7 And I'm also happy to answer any other
8 questions.
9 But back to your original question, I'm not
10 sure if Councilman Davis is aware of any
11 opposition from neighbors.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
13 MR. HUDSON: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Appreciate it.
15 I have no further questions for the
16 speakers, so we'll close the public hearing.
17 MR. SHROWDER: May I say something else?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: No. The public hearing is
19 closed, unless somebody specifically asks you a
20 question.
21 MR. SHROWDER: So my time is up?
22 MS. LEE: May I ask the gentleman a
23 question?
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilwoman Lee, you have
25 the floor.
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1 MS. LEE: I'm just trying to help you out
2 here. It seems as though you wanted to say
3 something, so I'm going to create a question.
4 Do you know if Councilman Davis is opposed
5 to this?
6 MR. SHROWDER: See, I was told that
7 Mr. Warren Jones was my district councilor since
8 I just moved back here, so I didn't really know
9 who our councilor was right there.
10 But since he was referring to traffic, you
11 know, a couple years ago -- I didn't live there
12 a couple years ago, and if I knew that much
13 traffic would have been there a couple years
14 ago, I wouldn't have bought that property
15 neither. It's a dead-end street. You don't
16 have no easement, you don't have no landscaping
17 facilities five feet [sic]. So evidently it's
18 going to just be let them go ahead and do what
19 they want to do, right?
20 MS. LEE: Well, he cleared up something,
21 that the gentleman who wants to purchase the
22 property is currently already there. Does that
23 make a difference to you?
24 MR. SHROWDER: There's no traffic with
25 anybody there. All that is is an outpost for a
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1 radio tower. That's all it is. No traffic.
2 MS. LEE: And you feel this zoning change
3 will create traffic?
4 MR. SHROWDER: That's a cut-through for
5 295, for people to just -- it's off of Normandy,
6 the cut-through off of 295 to get everywhere
7 else. So it's going to create a lot more
8 traffic, yes.
9 I mean, I don't know how many people
10 he's -- he ain't told me how many people he's
11 got working for him and how many people is going
12 to be coming in and out of that road.
13 MS. LEE: Yeah, it would just seem to me
14 that -- you know, I --
15 Mr. Chairman, I'm going to -- you know, I
16 tell you -- just a minute.
17 This is -- even though you don't represent
18 an area, you feel sometimes that, you know, you
19 can understand. And certainly I don't want to
20 be opposed to a district councilperson relative
21 to something to their district, but I do think
22 inasmuch as this gentleman did not receive a
23 notice, that's why I'm asking questions.
24 And I don't know, Mr. Chairman, what could
25 be done at least to help him resolve -- I think
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 it's only fair. He did call. He tried to do
2 things. Maybe the Planning Department can help
3 him out.
4 You know, we're so quick to feel like if
5 only one person comes forth and says something,
6 then it's no big deal, whereas a lot of time
7 other people might have been in the same
8 position that he was in.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: If Mr. Thompson could come
10 back up for a second, please.
11 MR. THOMPSON: (Complies.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: There seems to be some
13 confusion about the current use of the
14 building. Do you currently have a lease on the
15 building?
16 MR. THOMPSON: I currently have a lease on
17 the building, but I'm not using it.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That clarifies it.
19 Thank you. I appreciate it.
20 Mr. Kelly, do you have some input for us?
21 MS. LEE: Mr. Chair.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me go to Mr. Kelly first
23 and then come back to you.
24 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, I was going to go
25 over the staff recommendation and report. I
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1 think there's been kind of some confusion. This
2 is really just a waiver of road frontage,
3 request to reduce the required road frontage
4 from thirty-five feet down to zero feet.
5 Essentially the existing access easement,
6 the property that they're accessing from Lenox
7 Avenue, is already zoned CCG-1, as is this
8 property CCG-1.
9 They're attempting to come in now to
10 reoccupy the vandalized building and redevelop
11 the property back to its same original intensity
12 or less, based on the conditions that we have
13 for approval.
14 We would -- again, we're supportive of the
15 request and I can go into further details, but
16 if you have any questions . . .
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilwoman Lee.
18 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I -- you know, I'm
19 a little agitated now by the gentleman who
20 represents Cox.
21 Now, I was attempting to try and find a way
22 to resolve and help this gentleman, the
23 resident. And when he came back up here, he was
24 clear. He then said that the gentleman was
25 leasing the property with the insinuation that
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1 it was already being used and he was already on
2 the property.
3 And now Mr. Thompson says, oh, no, he's not
4 there. He just -- he just leases. But if this
5 is approved -- that's misleading. And then you
6 wonder why I asked you the other question. And
7 then now you come back up to the mic and you say
8 the same thing. And you, again, misled. You
9 did not say that he wasn't -- you gave the
10 impression he was physically in the building and
11 he was using it.
12 Mr. Thompson -- and I caught myself trying
13 to resolve this so that I could probably vote in
14 the affirmative. But, you know, I just think
15 people ought to be up front and not misleading
16 and give all of the facts and people should not
17 have to pull it out of them.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilwoman
19 Lee.
20 Mr. Kelly, could the lessee legally use
21 this building without having -- could you get a
22 CO without having this waiver or not?
23 MR. KELLY: No. Because the use of the
24 property as a radio station had ceased for more
25 than a year, they basically lost their
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1 grandfathered status, not having the legal
2 access to the Lenox roadway.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
4 MR. KELLY: So any reuse of this building
5 would require it.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. I guess that's my
7 point. If they started using it without the
8 waiver, then they would be illegally using the
9 property. And that's why he probably isn't
10 using it now -- I mean, part of the reason he's
11 not using it now. So I just wanted to clarify
12 that.
13 I guess my question is -- behind this radio
14 station is a very large antenna field. The
15 action that we're being asked to take today, how
16 does that -- let's say the antenna field goes
17 away and all of a sudden it wants to be
18 developed, how does that -- how does this all
19 play into that?
20 MR. KELLY: Right. That's why we've
21 incorporated a couple of conditions that will
22 protect that, any future expansion or
23 subdivision of the property, at such time that
24 easement would have to be brought up to City
25 standards and be dedicated as an improved public
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1 or an improved private roadway.
2 Additionally, we've limited the property to
3 the 12,000 square feet of professional business
4 office use that previously existed on the
5 property so that the CCG-1 uses, like retail and
6 some other more intense uses that could go on
7 CCG-1 zoning by right, will not be going onto
8 this property. It's strictly limited to
9 professional and business office, same as the
10 radio station offices.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: And that -- what you're
12 speaking about is what's contemplated in the
13 amendment that we're supposed to consider?
14 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So I think for the
16 committee, I think we'd be in the proper posture
17 if we had a motion on the amendment.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no motion on the
20 amendment, then the item --
21 Councilmember Shad, do you have a comment
22 or not?
23 MR. SHAD: (Inaudible.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, that's my question.
25 Is there an amendment prior to the
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1 amendment to grant --
2 MR. KELLY: There is one amendment because
3 I think the square footage of the original
4 structure was 12,000 square feet, instead of
5 10,000 square feet as indicated in the report.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. So there's a
7 clean-up amendment, and then there's an
8 amendment to either grant or deny or do it all
9 in one.
10 MS. ELLER: No. The amendment would be
11 to either grant or deny the waiver as
12 conditioned --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
14 MS. ELLER: -- recommended by the Planning
15 Department. So it's either amend to grant the
16 waiver and include these conditions in the
17 ordinance or deny the waiver.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I understand what we
19 need to do now.
20 Do I have an amendment?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing --
23 MS. LEE: May I ask a question,
24 Mr. Chairman?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You can ask a clarification,
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1 sure.
2 MS. LEE: Thank you, sir.
3 I'm a little confused. It says amend and
4 move, grant waiver, or amend and move to deny
5 waiver. Is the denial there because someone
6 recommended denial?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: No. That's --
8 MS. LEE: But that's just staff --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Standard procedure.
10 MS. LEE: That's what I thought. Okay.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I have not heard
12 anybody make an amendment, so we will defer this
13 item.
14 Sir -- Mr. Shrowder, I would encourage you
15 to contact Councilmember Davis's office and talk
16 to him -- and speak to him about this.
17 Instead of closing the public hearing,
18 which we did earlier, we will continue that
19 public hearing with no further action.
20 Okay. Committee members, we're on item 35,
21 2007-1309. We will open that public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll close the public
23 hearing.
24 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
2 -1309.
3 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
4 record the vote.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
7 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
8 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
9 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
12 (Committee ballot closed.)
13 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
15 approved 2007-1309.
16 Item 36, 2007-1310. We'll open that public
17 hearing.
18 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
19 public hearing.
20 Item 37, 2007-1311. We'll open that public
21 hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
23 public hearing.
24 We are now on page 12, item 38, 2007-1312.
25 We will open that public hearing.
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1 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
2 public hearing.
3 Item 39, 2007-1340. We'll open that public
4 hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
6 public hearing.
7 We already discussed item 40.
8 We have -- item 41 is an appeal, but we
9 have two other items that need action that we'll
10 take up prior to the appeal.
11 Item 42, on the top of page 13, is
12 2008-20. We'll open that public hearing.
13 We have one speaker, Staci Rewis.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
17 Staci Rewis, 245 Riverside Avenue,
18 Suite 400.
19 I'm available for questions.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no questions
21 for the speaker, we'll close that public
22 hearing.
23 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: We actually have an
25 amendment that we need to move first.
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1 MS. LEE: Move the amendment.
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
4 amendment.
5 Could someone please explain the
6 amendment?
7 MS. ELLER: Yes. There are real estate
8 numbers that are listed in the bill. And the
9 bill actually covers a portion of those real
10 estate numbers, not the whole real estate
11 number, so we want to be clear on that and clean
12 that up.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And just for the
14 committee members, there's an amendment on this
15 bill and bill number 43 that may or may not be
16 on the agenda, depending on what time you got
17 your agenda, so I apologize about that.
18 Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the
19 amendment signal by saying aye.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
24 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
2 2007-20 as amended.
3 Councilwoman Lee, you have a question?
4 MS. LEE: No. I was just going to point
5 out that my roommate right here didn't have the
6 amendment on his agenda.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: It was discussed at the
8 agenda meeting earlier.
9 Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.
10 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
11 record the vote.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
14 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
15 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
16 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you just
22 approved 2008-20.
23 Item 43, 2008-21. We'll open that public
24 hearing.
25 We have two speakers. The first one is
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1 Staci Rewis, followed by Braxton Gillam.
2 MS. REWIS: Hi. Staci Rewis, 245 Riverside
3 Avenue, Suite 400.
4 If I could reserve my time for rebuttal
5 after the next speaker.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
7 MS. REWIS: Thanks.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Braxton Gillam.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: To the Chair, Braxton
12 Gillam, 14 East Bay Street.
13 I'm here for 2008-11.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I kind of thought so.
15 Okay. Thank you.
16 Ms. Rewis, now that he's blown you out of
17 the water, you have no further comments?
18 MS. REWIS: No.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll close that
20 public hearing.
21 We have an amendment.
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the amendment.
23 MS. JONES: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
25 amendment to 2008-21.
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1 All in favor of the amendment signal by
2 saying aye.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
8 MR. WEBB: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
10 2008-21.
11 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,
12 record the vote.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
15 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
16 MS. LEE: (Votes yea).
17 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
23 approved 2008-21.
24 Committee members, items 44, 45, and 46,
25 which are 2008-22, -23, and -24, are all
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1 deferred.
2 On page 14, item 47 and 48, 2008-25 and
3 -26, are both deferred.
4 Item 49, 2008-27. We'll open that public
5 hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
7 public hearing with no further action.
8 And the rest of the items are all going to
9 be second and rereferred. They are 2008-40,
10 -41, -42, -43, -44, -45, -73.
11 That concludes our regular part of our
12 agenda. Our court reporter has been eagerly
13 typing for the last -- almost two hours, so we
14 will -- before we start the appeal, we will take
15 about a ten-minute break to let her rest her
16 fingers and we'll come back and take care of the
17 appeal.
18 As I mentioned at the beginning of the
19 meeting, we're going to give 20 minutes to each
20 side for this appeal. I have spoken to the
21 appellant and they understand that. The
22 opposition, I mentioned earlier, will also have
23 20 minutes. And I would suggest that you might
24 want to get together and organize your thoughts
25 so that you can keep it within the 20 minutes
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1 allotted.
2 So we will be back right at 7 o'clock.
3 Thank you.
4 (Brief recess.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's call the
6 meeting back to order.
7 Thank you for your patience during that
8 break.
9 We only have one item remaining on our
10 agenda. It's 2008-11. It's an appeal of a
11 final order by the Planning Commission to deny a
12 minor modification.
13 As I stated at the agenda meeting and
14 earlier tonight, we will allow 20 minutes for
15 each side to present their arguments. I believe
16 Terry Moore will be handling the appellants, and
17 is -- who's going to be handling the other --
18 raise your hand if you're going to be kind of
19 leading the -- or organizing the other side.
20 Who's going to be organizing the
21 opposition?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Holt Graves will be
24 organizing -- I'll let you go first on the
25 opposition side, if that's -- and then you can
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1 tell me what order you're going in from there.
2 Okay. We are on 2008-11. We will open the
3 public hearing. Our first speaker is --
4 (Mr. Moore approaches the podium.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's do ex-parte
6 communications before you go, Mr. Moore.
7 Councilmember Yarborough.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 I briefly -- on 2008-11, yesterday, in my
10 office, I met with Jack Diamond and Terry Moore
11 to look at the site plan and also to discuss the
12 effects on the neighboring properties.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilwoman Lee.
15 MS. LEE: Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, I
16 had an excuse that I was going to be late, but I
17 moved it back so that I could be to the meeting,
18 hoping we would be through by 6:30. And I
19 stayed kind of over my time and I was just --
20 wanted for the record that I would love to stay,
21 but I -- because of a personal engagement, I'm
22 going to have to leave.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: We will miss you, but we
24 understand.
25 MS. LEE: You're going to miss me?
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: You would not believe how
2 much I would miss you.
3 Councilmember Webb.
4 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
5 I wanted to declare ex-parte on 2008-11, on
6 February 1. Mr. Moore and myself had a
7 discussion of the appeal and reviewed the site
8 plan as well.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Councilmember Shad.
12 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 I met with Mr. Moore yesterday at 1:30 in
14 my office to discuss the history of the project
15 and the current plans.
16 Thank you.
17 (Ms. Lee exits the proceedings.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
19 I also will let you know that I spoke to
20 Mr. Moore yesterday afternoon and -- mid
21 afternoon in my office to discuss the appeal and
22 the procedure that we were going to be
23 following.
24 I also had a brief discussion with Mr. Jack
25 Diamond back on January 23rd, 2008, at the
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1 Fox Restaurant and briefly overviewed the
2 project.
3 Also, I had a meeting last year at some
4 point with the Planning Department and Mr. Moore
5 and a representative from Mr. Diamond's firm and
6 the representative from the development at the
7 developer's office to discuss the -- get an
8 update on the project.
9 So having said all that, Mr. Moore, good
10 evening and welcome.
11 MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
12 My name is Terry Moore. My address is
13 50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100. I'm with the
14 Gray Robinson law firm.
15 And let me apologize to you, Ms. Jones. My
16 intention was to try to meet you today after the
17 agenda meeting and speak with you, but, frankly,
18 I'm sick, so I went back to my office and tried
19 to recover.
20 I'm here on behalf of MLG Ortega
21 Condominiums, which is the owner of the property
22 at the intersection of Herschel and Lakeside
23 Drive, formerly known as Graham's Boatyard.
24 The property has been the subject of much
25 controversy when it was initially rezoned some
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1 years ago. And that was not by my client; it
2 was by the predecessor owner, the Julian LeCraw
3 Company. And my clients bought it with the
4 zoning in place. It was PUD zoning, and the PUD
5 zoning had a bubble plan showing -- excuse me --
6 not a bubble plan, but a fairly specific site
7 plan on how the property might be developed.
8 Through a series of site plan
9 verifications -- actually, three of them -- we
10 came up with the present site plan.
11 And I want to hand out some materials here
12 to each of the City Council folks, as well as
13 one for the record. I'll be referring to this
14 and I will be introducing it into the record as
15 evidentiary material.
16 (Tenders documents.)
17 As background for the property, I would ask
18 you to turn under tab 1, and tab 1 is a zoning
19 map -- actually, a use map, showing how the
20 property is zoned and how it's used in the
21 area.
22 The yellow piece of property there is the
23 land encompassed inside the PUD, and across the
24 street -- and I will say we've received -- at
25 the Planning Commission, we received opposition
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1 from some of the neighborhood.
2 Across the street there are two purple
3 properties. Those are owned by the opposition,
4 who will be here tonight, and the one next to
5 it. I don't know if that gentleman is in
6 opposition or not, but I point this out to you
7 because those are used for commercial use
8 presently, for office and for a medical office.
9 The next item I would point out to you is
10 under tab 2, which is the present site plan, and
11 let me explain very briefly what we're asking
12 for.
13 The site plan -- and you will see this when
14 we get to the Planning Department report.
15 The zoning, under the PUD, originally
16 contemplated 75 condominium units. The site
17 plan you see there has 38 condominium units.
18 This owner was -- had a verified site plan
19 showing 70 units, and -- 75 units, and they were
20 ready to go forward on construction. And
21 because of market conditions, they determined
22 not to and to start over and to make this less
23 dense and more of an upscale kind of
24 development.
25 The building colored yellow there was the
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1 subject of discussions. When that site plan
2 verification went through -- that's the meeting
3 that Mr. Corrigan alluded to with the Planning
4 Department -- we were requested -- my clients
5 were requested, as developers, by the
6 neighborhood to reduce the height of that
7 building -- and this is the critical issue --
8 from 55 feet to 45 feet in order to more fully
9 protect the view of the folks in the
10 neighborhood who felt they were impacted.
11 We did that, the client did that, they
12 reduced the building to 45 feet. They had
13 pulled building plans, and that building is
14 under construction as we speak.
15 The orange building will be built at
16 55 feet as contemplated. The PUD originally
17 limited the height to 55 feet.
18 The green building is the reason that I'm
19 here, and that's really all I'm here for, is to
20 ask the committee and the council to let us
21 increase that building to 10 feet -- 10 feet
22 higher, to 65 feet, as measured by the code, so
23 that we can recoup the two units that we gave up
24 for the benefit of the neighborhood.
25 The next item I would point out is the
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1 Planning Department report, and you can look at
2 the top of page 2, under the general
3 information, the second paragraph. It
4 substantiates what I've said in that we have --
5 the applicant has reduced the density from
6 35 feet to -- excuse me -- from 75 units down to
7 38 units, and we want to take it back to 40.
8 The comments of the Planning Department,
9 I've underlined those in orange because I think
10 the Planning Department report is competent
11 substantial evidence, and we've introduced it in
12 the record. It is the City's authority and
13 whether or not this project, as requested,
14 complies with the requirements for a minor
15 modification to the PUD.
16 And you will see there, under item 1,
17 there's no change in the land use; that under
18 item 2, the driveways and streets are not
19 affected, and that development -- the
20 development has received verification and permit
21 approval, and there's no change to the proposed
22 roads or driveways; and under item 3, there's no
23 change in any condition, and the proposed
24 modification will actually -- and this, again,
25 is critical -- will actually minimize the impact
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1 on the adjacent residential uses to the east and
2 blend in with the character of the surrounding
3 area.
4 I would point out, again, that the property
5 across the street, the three most proximate
6 properties, are in commercial use.
7 Now, let me ask you just to look up for a
8 minute and look to the back of this building.
9 It's probably 150 to 170 feet to the back of
10 this building from where you're sitting.
11 If you look under tab 4, you will see a
12 drawing we've asked the Rink Design group to
13 prepare to show the actual distance from the
14 impacted -- or from the building, where we're
15 trying to get the additional ten feet -- that's
16 the shaded building -- to the adjacent areas,
17 and you can see the lines there that show
18 300 feet, 400 feet, and 500 feet, just to put
19 things in perspective.
20 Also, that same drawing shows view
21 corridors. The area in yellow can be seen from
22 the neighborhood. I would submit anything --
23 pardon me -- any residential area to the east of
24 the marina clubhouse cannot see this building
25 because of the clubhouse being in the way and
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1 because of the building under construction will
2 be in the way.
3 Obviously, the houses -- the residential --
4 one house on the north side of Lakeside Drive
5 can see this building, and I've marked on there
6 where the residential use is and where the
7 commercial use is.
8 Now, what is it we want to do?
9 If you look under tab 5, you will see a
10 drawing of a five-story building, and that's
11 there only to show, you know, specific design
12 intent and what it would look like.
13 Under drawing 6, you will see an elevation
14 of what the building will look like. Actually,
15 it's building 5, like a stack of pancakes with
16 another pancake stuck in the middle, to raise it
17 up to six stories.
18 Now, under tab 7, this building exists.
19 This is -- if you flip back under tab 3, you
20 will see the marina clubhouse. I have inserted
21 this in here -- this is not anything that's the
22 subject of this appeal. It's off site. Because
23 we're only trying to amend one building.
24 But this shows you what this owner has
25 done, what they've built and the quality of the
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1 construction and their commitment. And if you
2 were to go there and walk on the decks, you
3 would see that they're made out of teak.
4 Now, what was there before you'll find
5 under tab 8 -- I'll ask you to look at that;
6 that's the old boatyard -- tab 9 -- and these
7 are actual photos -- and tab 10 is an aerial
8 view.
9 I would point out also that the marina --
10 again, this is off site in the sense of it's not
11 part of what we're asking for, but all of those
12 docks were removed and they were rebuilt, and
13 this owner is enforcing the submerged lands
14 lease and -- which was not enforced strictly
15 before. There were people living on boats,
16 flushing toilets, throwing garbage, whatever.
17 The last thing I would ask you to look at
18 is under tab 11, and that is a picture from the
19 street. It's from the corner of Herschel and
20 Lakeside, looking to the west, and the building
21 you see there is a 13-story building. The next
22 picture is a better picture of that building,
23 closer to it, again, down on the curbside down
24 closer to it.
25 So we submit that what we're asking for is
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1 consistent with the neighborhood. You know,
2 we're asking the City to recognize the
3 accommodations we made and let us have those two
4 units back.
5 I'm going to ask Jack Diamond to speak very
6 succinctly about his view of this project being
7 compatible with the neighborhood.
8 Any time we have left we'll reserve for
9 rebuttal.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening,
15 Mr. Chairman.
16 My name is Jack Diamond. I live at 11459
17 Fort George Road, Jacksonville.
18 Very pleased to be a part of this project.
19 As Terry was saying, this developer is very much
20 of a quality developer. He has come to us, and
21 originally he had the ability to go ahead and
22 build a very large five-story building
23 throughout the entire site.
24 And in working with the Planning Department
25 and the chairman -- we've talked to him in the
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1 past about it when they were asking us to reduce
2 the density in the area as it relates -- excuse
3 me -- the height of the building on the eastern
4 side.
5 What we ended up doing is taking that down
6 to four stories, went to five stories with
7 building number 3, and then building number 1,
8 of course, we're asking it to go to six
9 stories.
10 As you saw under tab number 8 -- excuse
11 me -- tab number 7, you start to see the quality
12 of the development.
13 I think what we tried to do in the
14 development is tried to enhance the residential
15 quality of this development, and you can see
16 basically by that clubhouse structure that's
17 very similar -- it's going to be the front door
18 of each one of these buildings that we've got.
19 So what we tried to do is respect the scale
20 of the community. And as far as the -- adding
21 the two stories -- and it's only two units, by
22 the way.
23 As it relates to the top of the building to
24 the -- to the west, we were simply trying to be
25 respectful of it. It's the farthest from the
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1 road. It's also down about 8 or 9 -- 8 or
2 10 feet lower than the other buildings because
3 of its distance away from the road.
4 So we were trying to be very respectful of
5 the neighborhood, respectful of the views, and
6 respectful of the opportunity to create a
7 less-dense-looking overall development. And at
8 the same time, when you go from 75 units down to
9 40 units, the amount of traffic and everything
10 else in the neighborhood increased the quality
11 of the development.
12 So if you have any questions, be more than
13 happy to answer them.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
15 MR. DIAMOND: Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Diamond. We
17 may have questions later.
18 I have it down as 12 minutes for the
19 appellant.
20 We are now ready for the opposition. We
21 will begin with Mr. Holt Graves.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I believe you're going to
24 speak first?
25 And if that's -- if you want a different
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1 order, just let me know.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's fine.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
5 My name is Holt Graves. I reside at 4437
6 Herschel Street.
7 I'm here representing my neighbors and the
8 members of the Lakeside Park Preservation
9 Association to speak against their proposed
10 height increase.
11 To appreciate why we're opposing the
12 increase, you really have to go back to know the
13 history of this whole project.
14 When the Ortega River Boatyard was sold
15 originally, there was months and months of
16 discussions and meetings between the developers
17 and all interested parties, of which there were
18 many, including our City Councilperson. There
19 were many changes, there were many compromises
20 that were made. And at the end of the day,
21 there was a PUD that was accepted by all the
22 parties. It was accepted by the developer, the
23 homeowners, the boating community, the Planning
24 Commission, and the City Council.
25 That PUD specified the height of the
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1 buildings, the placement, and usage of the
2 buildings, then things began to change.
3 They referred to the four-story condominium
4 building. Actually, that replaced a two-story
5 building that was strategically placed to act as
6 a buffer on the eastern boundary of the
7 property.
8 The 55-story height limit has now become
9 75 feet, plus or minus, and now there's a
10 further proposal to increase the height of the
11 buildings.
12 Going back to the original 55-foot height
13 limit, there was a lot of discussion and thought
14 that was given to that. Yes, we considered the
15 neighboring office building. We also considered
16 the treetops -- the heights of the treetops, not
17 to extend beyond that. We considered the view
18 of the homes neighboring their property, the
19 view from the street. We also considered the
20 view from the homes across the river. So a lot
21 of thought went into that.
22 The PUD states that the maximum height is
23 55 feet, plus fires [sic], antennas, chimneys
24 and appurtenances. We've come to find out that
25 appurtenances includes the entire roof
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1 structure, mechanical rooms, access rooms,
2 elevator shafts, et cetera.
3 What we thought we were approving was a
4 55-foot maximum height is really now a 75-foot
5 maximum height, plus or minus. Adding another
6 floor means that the -- our original intent of
7 the agreement is being far exceeded. We're now
8 approaching a building that's close to 100 feet
9 in height.
10 The Planning Commission has already
11 declined this request. On behalf of the
12 homeowners, I request that you do the same.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 Mr. Graves, who is going to speak next, do
16 you know?
17 MR. GRAVES: I believe Mr. Olsen.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
19 MR. GRAVES: I think the rest of the people
20 in our neighborhood -- like Ms. Lee had other
21 commitments, they had to leave, but they've
22 deferred their comments to me.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We'll go with
24 Mr. Olsen next.
25 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: You've got some handouts to
2 pass out?
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It would be beneficial if
6 you could get these and -- and, like our
7 predecessor, I don't have tabs, but I do have
8 appendices.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Give me your name and
10 address for the record, please.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. My name is Erik
12 Olsen. My office address is 4438 Herschel
13 Street. I own both offices -- or two offices
14 across the street from the proposed
15 development.
16 I did appear at the previous zoning meeting
17 in opposition to the proposed extension.
18 What I'm here to ask you again tonight is
19 to deny this appeal, and also, more -- as
20 importantly -- and I know that you don't have an
21 enforcement, but to enforce the existing
22 violations for the buildings that are being
23 proposed now, that is to say the developer
24 asserts that he can build five-story buildings
25 in accordance with the design that's been
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1 basically accepted by the Planning Department.
2 I'm here to show you tonight, hopefully through
3 these exhibits, that, in my opinion, that's not
4 correct.
5 I also point out that Mr. Moore indicated
6 that this is a downzoning. Yes, it is a
7 downzoning, and certainly everybody embraces a
8 downzoning, but I will also tell you that for
9 the original project it had units as small as
10 700 square feet. This particular building has
11 no units less than 2,500 square feet. So when
12 you're a developer and you're selling square
13 footage, it's all sort of six or one, half a
14 dozen of the other.
15 I will also tell you that the original
16 building, as proposed, which was a massive
17 building and certainly was not a very attractive
18 building, had the same -- exact same violations
19 that I'm going to address here tonight.
20 These violations all have to do with the
21 height limitations. And what you really need to
22 do, as Mr. Graves indicated, is to understand
23 how this PUD was negotiated and where it came
24 from.
25 Exhibit 1 is actually an excerpt from the
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1 Planning Department's own records. It indicates
2 that the building -- the buildings, as
3 negotiated with Julian LeCraw, who was the
4 original applicant for this particular project,
5 which was then flipped and purchased by MLG
6 within 30 -- something like 60 days of the
7 passing of the ordinance.
8 There were a number of factors that were
9 negotiated. One was the height limitations.
10 Those limitations were all keyed to the existing
11 building which almost abuts this. We -- I'm
12 going to refer to it as the C.F. Knight building
13 here tonight because it was that group that
14 actually developed the building. It's now owned
15 by the Cathedral Foundation.
16 That particular building was very
17 controversial when it was proposed. As a matter
18 of fact, the City Council denied the original
19 ordinance for that building. It was negotiated,
20 I believe, by Mr. Harden to be no more than
21 basically 53 feet above existing grade.
22 It was that building that was used in the
23 negotiations with Julian LeCraw as the maximum
24 absolute height that can be built on the -- on
25 the old Graham property.
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1 Now, interestingly enough, when that
2 building -- C.F. Knight building was permitted,
3 it -- the specifications for that height said no
4 portion of the building -- that includes all
5 mechanicals, your elevator shaft, the parapets
6 that hide the mechanicals on the roof, nothing
7 could exceed that elevation.
8 And it was that specific litmus test and
9 that hurdle that was passed down to this
10 property, and what -- if you look at the
11 exhibits that I have here tonight, there is a
12 firm paper trail that represents that, both in
13 verbal descriptions and actual graphics which
14 were presented by Julian LeCraw in the
15 negotiation with the City and with the
16 neighborhood.
17 For example, if you look at Exhibit B, this
18 is an excerpt from Julian LeCraw's own design
19 professionals that shows that they understood
20 that the absolute elevation was keyed to the
21 next building and it shows their buildings not
22 to exceed that elevation.
23 Now, these are the type of graphics that
24 were given to the City, they were given to the
25 neighborhood, and around which all the
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1 negotiations proceeded.
2 I have also included just, again, as part
3 of the institutional history, the actual
4 ordinance that went with the C.F. Knight
5 building, which was originally turned down and
6 negotiated with the residential properties
7 immediately abutting them to not exceed 53 feet
8 above grade.
9 Now, the appellant here very casually
10 referred to the building further -- to
11 Roosevelt, which, yes, is a relatively high
12 building. That building served no part of a
13 basis of the negotiation of the PUD with Julian
14 LeCraw. It does exist, but the fact of life is
15 that lower buildings, the C.F. Knight building,
16 exists in between.
17 And, again, it was the understanding of
18 this neighborhood and all parties involved that
19 all buildings to be built in accordance with
20 this PUD would start at that elevation and would
21 transcend down to the buildings that abut
22 Mr. Graves' property.
23 Again, Exhibit D is a picture of the
24 C.F. Knight building. And, again, if you look
25 at this, you will see that there is nothing that
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1 exceeds 53 feet above grade, which at this
2 elevation is about -- or this location, if you
3 tie it to mean sea level, it's about 65 feet
4 NGBD.
5 And, again, the specifications for this
6 were that it couldn't comply with the normal
7 code variations that oftentimes are given to
8 architects and developers where you're allowed
9 to build mechanicals higher than the,
10 quote/unquote, roof elevation, or you can have
11 elevator shafts and the building around the
12 elevator shafts exceed some type of
13 specification. That's not the case here.
14 However, that is the issue that basically we're
15 discussing here.
16 If you go to the very last exhibit, which
17 is the building being proposed, this particular
18 exhibit is the six stories, not the five
19 stories. The letters in red indicate the
20 elevations that -- that a five-story building
21 would have.
22 Basically, what you're talking about is the
23 definition of this building, its height is
24 defined as the ceiling of the upper floor. The
25 City staff -- the Planning staff has basically
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1 said that anything you put above that does not
2 count against the height limitation.
3 And perhaps that does pass muster under
4 certain circumstances with certain architects --
5 although two architects I talked to said they
6 could never, ever get that.
7 But irrespective of that interpretation of
8 the staff and the code officials, that is not
9 what should apply here. If it does, you have a
10 building that exceeds the existing PUD standard
11 by 20 feet irrespective of the chimney. The
12 chimney is a little bit higher, but no one is
13 going to count a cupola or a chimney.
14 The actual roof ridge elevation, as shown
15 here, exceeds the existing PUD for the
16 five-story building -- not the six-story
17 building that's being requested -- exceeds the
18 PUD standard by 20 feet.
19 So what we're asking -- what I'm asking
20 here tonight is, again, for the wisdom to deny
21 this appeal, but also I'm seeking the
22 enforcement -- the absolute enforcement of the
23 PUD on all the remaining buildings because what
24 is being proposed -- actually, the building
25 that's coming out of the ground has the same
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1 attributes. It is going to exceed what was
2 agreed upon in the PUD by approximately
3 20 feet. That's the 45-foot building.
4 Well, basically, that, I believe, completes
5 my remarks, and I'll be glad to answer any
6 questions that you may have regarding them.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
8 Mr. Olsen.
9 I have several other speakers. I just need
10 to know if they want to come forward and speak.
11 Jay Abraham, Norman Abraham, Betsy Dunlap,
12 Dennis Matthews, Braxton Gillam, and Betty Ann
13 Graves. Would any of those speakers wish to
14 come forward and speak?
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: We're here in support.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: They all have indicated
17 they're here in -- supporting the speaker who is
18 against the appeal.
19 Okay. Thank you, Mr. Olsen.
20 MR. OLSEN: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I believe -- Mr. Moore, I
22 believe you have about eight minutes of rebuttal
23 time remaining.
24 (Mr. Moore approaches the podium.)
25 MR. MOORE: I think the thrust of the
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1 objections that you've heard are not with us and
2 they're not with this project. They're with the
3 City and how the City measures its height
4 limitations.
5 We didn't -- our view is -- and the
6 Planning Department can certainly weigh in on
7 this. We didn't ask for anything on the
8 interpretation of how height -- a height
9 limitation is applied any differently than
10 anyone else does.
11 I live in the San Marco area. I can invite
12 you to go over on Sorrento Road and see a house
13 over there that's at 35 feet. That's the
14 residential height limitations. And you can
15 look at what the actual resulting height of that
16 house is. It's -- far exceeds 35 feet because
17 of the way the City code has exceptions.
18 There's no specific exception here. We're
19 not asking for anything different -- or to be
20 treated any differently. The Planning
21 Department has issued a building permit on the
22 building to the east that I discussed with you
23 before.
24 Mr. Graves spoke specifically that we were
25 going from 55 feet to 75 feet and he even
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1 alluded to 100 feet. We're not. We're going to
2 55 feet to 65 feet as determined by your
3 Planning Department and the way it enforces its
4 code.
5 There was discussion about homes in the
6 neighborhood. There's Mr. Graves' home to the
7 east of us. And I showed you, I think under
8 tab 6, the new building that actually protects
9 his privacy. That building was reoriented so
10 that any amenities, pools, other things are --
11 you know, are away from his house.
12 So, yes, I mean, he is a house in the
13 neighborhood and we have tried to be respectful
14 of him.
15 As I mentioned, as Mr. Olsen confirmed, at
16 least his two buildings -- and the one next to
17 him I mentioned is a physician's office across
18 the street. So on the north side of the
19 property, the neighbors across the street are
20 all in commercial uses, contributing, I would
21 say, to traffic. They have employees, they have
22 businesses, they have clients, patients, people
23 that come and go.
24 We are actually reducing the burden. I
25 showed you the pictures. You can see the cars,
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1 of what was at the property before. And we have
2 taken what we were permitted at 75 units and
3 we've cut that back, with this appeal being
4 successful, to 40 units. So we believe that we
5 are compatible with the neighborhood.
6 I would also point out that, you know, much
7 was made about the C.F. Knight building. A lot
8 of pieces and parts goes into the process of --
9 the legislative process to come out with an
10 ordinance. Everybody knows that. We, however,
11 as a buyer -- and any other buyer like us --
12 have to rely on what's in the public record and
13 what's in the ordinance, and the ordinance says
14 55 feet.
15 You know, if people believed people who
16 appeared when that ordinance went through, such
17 as Mr. Olsen and I think Mr. Graves, if they had
18 an objection about that ordinance or how 65 feet
19 or 55 feet was going to be measured, they had
20 ample opportunity to appeal that ordinance as
21 affected parties, and no such appeals were
22 done.
23 It's interesting to me that after we gave
24 up ten feet on the easterly building as an
25 accommodation and after that building was under
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1 construction, now there's vociferous objection
2 to adding ten feet back on the building to the
3 west, which is the building that's pointed out
4 in the materials I presented. That's at least
5 300 feet away from the middle of Lakeside --
6 Lake Shore Drive.
7 And with respect to the comment about the
8 materials we produced on the building to the far
9 west, it is part of the neighborhood, but what
10 we're talking about here is impacts,
11 particularly visual impacts, I think --
12 The only thing that's been talked about,
13 when you think about it, is visual impacts. The
14 opponents have conceded, the Planning Department
15 has noted that we've reduced the size of the
16 building, we've reduced all the impacts that are
17 associated with more units, more traffic.
18 You know, people with a 700-square-foot
19 unit are going to drive a car. People with a
20 2,200-square-foot unit are going to drive a
21 car. They're not going to drive, you know,
22 necessarily more cars.
23 So the building to the west is part of the
24 neighborhood as evidenced by the fact as you can
25 see it.
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1 So I think we have presented materials that
2 show where the view lines are and what the
3 distances are to the street, and the impact of
4 this request at 10 feet is a minimal impact in
5 the neighborhood.
6 And I think we've also -- I think your
7 Planning Department has said that there's no
8 special treatment here.
9 So now that we've reduced the height on the
10 easterly building and we've relied on the
11 discussions and the negotiations with the City,
12 I would ask the City to honor its commitment to
13 us and to favorably consider the westerly
14 building and let us add ten feet back to it.
15 It's only two condominium units.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I see no
18 other --
19 (Mr. Diamond approaches the podium.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Diamond, you've got --
21 you've still got about two minutes left.
22 MR. DIAMOND: I would just like to make one
23 statement.
24 I've been an architect in Jacksonville for
25 35 years. The whole intent of zoning and
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1 building codes is to create a quality of life,
2 and throughout the entire community -- and we're
3 doing projects even in Jax Beach and everything
4 else.
5 The designation of the height of the
6 building is consistent throughout the entire
7 community, and to argue about whether or not
8 the -- you know, the slope of the roof and those
9 kind of things are in violation, that's not in
10 violation with any codes or any zoning
11 requirements, and that is throughout the entire
12 community.
13 And one of the reasons for -- many times --
14 some of those units, is really to create quality
15 or character-type elements. Even if you go out
16 to, let's say, Epping Forest and you see a
17 little bell tower up there, they're creating a
18 quality of life, and that's what it's kind of
19 all about.
20 And to object to things that are a few feet
21 higher on a technicality I think is not talking
22 about the intent of what the code is all about,
23 and I think what we've tried to do is reduce the
24 density, reduce the overall impact of the
25 building.
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1 And when people look at a building, they're
2 looking at it from a 6 foot height limit. And
3 when you look up, the edge of the building is
4 still going to be the edge of the building, no
5 matter what's behind it as it relates to
6 mechanical space or elevator space and those
7 kind of things, and that's why the code was
8 written the way it is.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
10 (Mr. Gillam approaches the podium.)
11 MR. GILLAM: Surrebuttal of the comments --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: No, they get the rebuttal.
13 You don't get rebuttal.
14 MR. GILLAM: Surrebuttal.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me?
16 MR. GILLAM: I ask for surrebuttal in light
17 of the last comments of Mr. Diamond.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller, is he permitted
19 to --
20 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Repeat that, please.
22 MS. ELLER: If this gentleman offered new
23 and additional information that wasn't offered