1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, February 5,


       7   2008, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.

                CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.

      14        MIA JONES, Committee Member.

                E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.

      15        ART SHAD, Committee Member.

                JACK WEBB, Committee Member.



      17   ALSO PRESENT:


      18        JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

                SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.

      19        STEPHEN SMITH, Planning and Development Dept.

                DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

      20        SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

                JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.

      21        MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.


      22                         -  -  -











           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   February 5, 2008                        5:00 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a quorum, so


       5        we will go ahead and call to order the Tuesday,


       6        February 5th meeting of the Land Use and Zoning


       7        Committee.


       8             I am the Chairman, Councilmember Michael


       9        Corrigan.  We have Vice Chairman Clay


      10        Yarborough, Councilmember Art Shad, and


      11        Councilmember Jack Webb.  We have a couple of


      12        other committee members that we anticipate


      13        joining us in a couple of minutes.


      14             We have a number of things on the agenda


      15        tonight.  The last item that we'll take up this


      16        evening is an appeal that is on page 12,


      17        2008-11.  That's an appeal of the final order of


      18        the Planning Commission.  It was discussed in


      19        the agenda meeting earlier.


      20             We will allow 20 minutes for each side to


      21        present their case.  I know that the appellant


      22        has been told that.  The opposition I did not


      23        have a conversation with.  If you're here in


      24        opposition of that bill, I would suggest you


      25        kind of -- if you want to raise your hand and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        gather as a group and put together a group of


       2        you that want to get together and figure out how


       3        you want to give divvy up that 20 minutes,


       4        that's fine with me, but it's going to be


       5        20 minutes for each side.


       6             So I think most of you know each other, if


       7        you want to get together and figure that out


       8        ahead of time.  I'll be a little lenient on how


       9        many minutes you have, but the total opposition


      10        side will have 20 minutes.  And as a standard


      11        procedure in this committee, the appellant will


      12        have an option of rebuttal if he has some of his


      13        20 minutes remaining during his comments.  Just


      14        want to let you know that ahead of time.


      15             There is a second appeal, committee


      16        members, that we're going to hear tonight that


      17        we are now going to open and continue the public


      18        hearing.  That's item 40 on your agenda,


      19        2007-1350.


      20             I've had ex-parte communications with the


      21        appellant and with some of the opposition.  We


      22        have some ideas of potential compromise that I'd


      23        like to have the opportunity to try to work out


      24        prior to hearing that appeal.


      25             My ex-parte communications took place with





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Matt Jackson and the appellant.  Matt Jackson is


       2        the agent for that project.  It happened


       3        yesterday in the afternoon, and they also took


       4        place this afternoon immediately following and


       5        shortly after the agenda meeting to discuss a


       6        potential compromise on that issue.  And my


       7        ex-parte with the opposition was just


       8        understanding of the bill.


       9             MR. WEBB:  Mr. Chair.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


      11             MR. WEBB:  I need to declare ex-parte.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let me tell you what.  We're


      13        talking about item 40.  Let me open that public


      14        hearing.  I just declared my ex-parte.


      15             I'll go to Councilmember Webb to declare


      16        his.


      17             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      18             I had ex-parte communication with Mr. Matt


      19        Jackson, representative for the developer, last


      20        week, I believe.  About a 25-minute telephone


      21        conversation discussing the merits or his


      22        position on the matter.


      23             Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilmember


      25        Yarborough.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       2             Ex-parte on 2007-1315 on January 21st at


       3        roughly 9 o'clock in the morning with Mr. Ernie


       4        Isaac to talk about the history of this subject


       5        and the merits of it.


       6             Thank you.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  I do have one


       8        speaker card, Ms. Louise De Spain.


       9             Louise, do you want to defer?  Since we're


      10        going to defer, do you want to --


      11             MS. DE SPAIN:  Yes.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  She recognizes -- she


      13        will speak when we actually take up the bill.


      14             Thank you.  I appreciate it.


      15             Seeing no further speakers, we will


      16        continue that public hearing with no further


      17        action.


      18             Okay.  Committee members, let's go back to


      19        the beginning of our agenda.  A number of items


      20        are going to be opened and continued or


      21        deferred.


      22             We'll begin with item 1, 2005-718.  We will


      23        open that public hearing.


      24             We have one speaker, Danny --


      25             Danny, I can't pronounce your last name.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Come on up.


       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ferreira.


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Ferreira (pronouncing).


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry.


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Well, I'm just speaking


       7        for myself.  I'm not sure exactly where this


       8        stands.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Give me your name and


      10        address for the record, please.


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.  Danny Ferreira,


      12        14838 Edwards Creek Road in Jacksonville,


      13        32226.


      14             I guess I'm just speaking in opposition to


      15        this because I don't know where it stands with


      16        the City.  My understanding is they're trying to


      17        create some kind of advertisement at the bus


      18        stops.


      19             I've opposed this.  And I'm assuming that


      20        it's going forward with some kind of signed


      21        agreement that they're going to be placing signs


      22        on these bus stops around the City.  Is this


      23        correct?


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  That is what the original


      25        bill proposed.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. FERREIRA:  Right.  And there's been an


       2        agreement to move this forward as far as --


       3             MR. WEBB:  Do you want me to respond to


       4        that?


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.  Do you want to respond


       6        to that?


       7             If I could, let me get Councilmember Webb


       8        to respond to your question.


       9             MR. FERRIERA:  Thank you.


      10             MR. KELLY:  I'm sorry.  Your name is what?


      11             MR. FERRIERA:  Danny Ferreira.


      12             (Ms. Jones enters the proceedings.)


      13             MR. WEBB:  Mr. Ferreira, the matter is


      14        currently in the LUZ committee, also in the


      15        Rules Committee.  It's been deferred -- the bill


      16        has been deferred numerous cycles to negotiate


      17        some sort of compromise arrangement with the


      18        community group that's in opposition to the


      19        bill.


      20             So we anticipate it will probably be


      21        deferred for another four months or so while we


      22        work out some -- attempt to work out a


      23        compromise in the matter.


      24             MR. FERRIERA:  Right.  Okay.  Well, then


      25        I -- I guess really what I want to do is to make





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sure that I really get my verbal objections to


       2        this kind of placing of advertisements around


       3        bus stops around the city.  I've seen this in


       4        Portugal and Lisben, and it's not an attractive


       5        thing in the downtown areas.


       6             I just don't see why this even exists.  It


       7        seems to me that this is special interest


       8        pushing agenda to push revenue-driven


       9        advertisements in our city, like our painting of


      10        our buses and stuff like this.  And I just think


      11        that this is something that -- this city, I


      12        thought, worked very hard in previous


      13        administrations to make sure that we did not


      14        pollute, visually, our city.


      15             I've traveled in various cities that I have


      16        not seen this.  And when I've traveled and seen


      17        it, like I say, in Portugal, it's not


      18        attractive.  It's not attractive at all.  So I


      19        encourage that this type of special driven


      20        revenue, whatever, just be stopped.  It's not


      21        what I expect the City of Jacksonville


      22        government to be addressing.


      23             Thank you all.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      25             And as we indicated, there will be no





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        action on this item.


       2             Seeing no further speakers, that public


       3        hearing will be continued with no further


       4        action.


       5             (Ms. Lee enters the proceedings.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Committee members, items 2


       7        and 3, 2005-1161 and 2005-1228, will both be


       8        deferred.


       9             Top of page 3, item 2005-1399.  We'll open


      10        that public hearing.


      11             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      12        hearing.


      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move to withdraw.


      14             MR. WEBB:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      16        to withdraw 2005-1399.


      17             Open the ballot, record the vote.


      18             (Committee ballot opened.)


      19             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      25             (Committee ballot closed.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


       3        withdrawn 2005-1399.


       4             Items 5 and 6 on page 3 are deferred,


       5        2006-24 and 2006-220.


       6             All the items on page 4 and 5 are


       7        deferred:  2006-360, -520, -658, 2007-144, -145,


       8        -384, and -581.


       9             We're on page 6 now, top of the page,


      10        2007-659.  We'll open that public hearing.


      11             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      12        public hearing with no further action.


      13             Item 15, 2007-803, is deferred.


      14             Item 16, 2007-1011.  We'll open that public


      15        hearing.


      16             Seeing no speakers, we will close that --


      17        we'll continue that public hearing with no


      18        further action.


      19             Item number 17, 2007-1046.  We will open


      20        that public hearing.


      21             Louise De Spain is here.  I'll tell you


      22        that at the agenda meeting today, the district


      23        councilperson, Councilmember Gaffney, came and


      24        talked about the meeting he had with a number of


      25        institutions and people in the community.  They





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        think they're working towards some type of


       2        compromise.  They are not ready to present that


       3        tonight.  They will most likely explain it at


       4        the council meeting, which we'll have a public


       5        hearing as well.  We're looking at taking action


       6        in the next cycle, the next two weeks from


       7        tonight at this LUZ Committee.


       8             I know Shannon Eller is here from OGC.  Do


       9        you have anything to add to that?


      10             MS. ELLER:  No, sir.  Just a general


      11        reminder that in two weeks the LUZ Committee


      12        will be meeting on Wednesday instead of Tuesday


      13        because we have a Monday holiday.  So anyone


      14        that is looking at an item on the agenda and


      15        planning on coming back in two weeks, please


      16        note that the LUZ Committee will be meeting on


      17        Wednesday night.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Oh, that's a good point.


      19        Thank you.


      20             MS. DE SPAIN:  I'll wait to speak until


      21        then.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  She will wait until then.


      23        Thank you very much.  We appreciate that.


      24             Okay.  Seeing no further speakers, we'll


      25        continue that public hearing with no further





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        action.


       2             Top of page 7, item 18 and 19, 2007-1051


       3        and -1061, are both deferred.


       4             Item number 20, 2007-1083.  We'll open that


       5        public hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       7        public hearing.


       8             Item 21, 2007-1085.  We'll open that public


       9        hearing.


      10             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      11        public hearing.


      12             Page 8, item 22.  We will -- 2007-1086.


      13        We'll open that public hearing.


      14             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue the


      15        public hearing.


      16             2007-1121.  We'll open that public hearing.


      17             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      18        public hearing.


      19             Item number 24, 2007-1125.  We'll open that


      20        public hearing.


      21             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      22        public hearing.


      23             Committee members, on the bottom of page 8,


      24        item number 25, 2007-1191.  We're going to open


      25        that public hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We have one speaker, Mr. Charles Mann.


       2             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       4             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, members of the


       5        committee, Charles Mann, 165 Arlington Road,


       6        representing the landowner.


       7             This piece of property is located on the


       8        south side of Beach Boulevard, between Hodges


       9        and San Pablo.  It's going to be designed for a


      10        self-storage facility of approximately four


      11        stories.


      12             We have worked very closely with the


      13        neighborhood.  We've agreed to have no access to


      14        the rear of the building.  We've left a 90-foot


      15        buffer at the rear of the building.  We've moved


      16        the dumpster three times.  We've limited hours


      17        of operation.  We've reduced the size of the


      18        building to add to the buffer.  We've agreed to


      19        put windows.  We've agreed to have no windows


      20        facing south.


      21             We've added a lighting consideration to our


      22        application.  The drainage that was an issue to


      23        the neighborhood will be addressed through the


      24        St. Johns Water Management District submittals.


      25             I'd like to point out that we do not add to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        school traffic.  Our concurrency is very light


       2        at this place because of the type of operation.


       3             And from the neighborhood that we worked


       4        with, we had one lady come and speak in our


       5        favor at the Planning Commission.


       6             If I have no other opposition, I will yield


       7        to any questions you may have.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I see no other


       9        speakers, so I assume you have no opposition at


      10        this point.


      11             So seeing no other speakers, we'll close


      12        the public hearing.


      13             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  Councilmember


      15        Lee and Councilmember Jones -- I was going to


      16        say that earlier -- they both joined us several


      17        minutes ago.  So welcome.


      18             MS. LEE:  Several hours.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  It was 5:02, I believe, is


      20        when you -- you're right on schedule.


      21             MR. YARBOROUGH:  I'll second the motion.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion and second


      23        on the amendment.


      24             Could we go to the Planning Department for


      25        the explanation of the amendment, please.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman, members of


       2        the committee, the amendment consists of 11


       3        conditions, and they are as follows.


       4             "The development shall be subject to the


       5        original legal description dated October 22,


       6        2007."


       7             Number 2, "The development shall be subject


       8        to the original written description dated


       9        September 24, 2007."


      10             Number 3, "The development shall be subject


      11        to the revised site plan dated January 16,


      12        2008."


      13             Number 4, "The development shall be subject


      14        to the Development Services memorandum dated


      15        October 31, 2007, or as otherwise approved by


      16        the Planning and Development Department."


      17             Number 5, "All sides of the building shall


      18        have architectural details, including faux


      19        windows, variation in wall planes, contrasting


      20        banding and pilasters.  Flat roofs with parapets


      21        shall have contrasting color caps.  No plain


      22        concrete block is permitted.


      23             "Architectural (inaudible) shall be


      24        submitted at the time of verification of


      25        substantial compliance for review and approval





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        by the Planning and Development Department."


       2             Number 6, "Front yard setbacks shall be


       3        30 feet at a minimum."


       4             Number 7, "The portion of the site in the


       5        low density LDR functional land use category


       6        shall not be used as a vehicle use area except


       7        for emergency vehicles."


       8             Number 8, "No windows on the south facade


       9        shall allow a view from the interior to the


      10        exterior of the building."


      11             Number 9, "Illumination levels at all


      12        property lines shall not exceed .5 footcandles.


      13        Outside shields and other cutoff reflectors may


      14        be incorporated into the lighting equipment to


      15        meet this lighting standard."


      16             Number 10, "The hours of customer access


      17        shall be limited to 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m."


      18             Number 11, "The developer shall provide an


      19        uncomplementary land use buffer meeting the


      20        requirements of part 12 of the zoning code along


      21        all property lines adjoining a residential use


      22        or residential zoning."


      23             That's it.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      25             Mr. Mann, do you agree with those





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        conditions?


       2             MR. MANN:  Yes, sir, we do.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you.


       4             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're still on the


       6        amendment.


       7             All in favor of the amendment signal by


       8        saying aye.


       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      11             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      13             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.


      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and a second on the


      16        bill as amended.


      17             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,


      18        record the vote.


      19             (Committee ballot opened.)


      20             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


      23             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Committee ballot closed.)


       2             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       4        approved 2007-1191.


       5             MR. MANN:  Thank you, committee.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       7             Committee members, we're on the top of


       8        page 9, 2007-1194.  We'll open that public


       9        hearing.


      10             Councilmember Yarborough.


      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Mr. Chairman, just to


      12        declare ex-parte on 2007-1191 will Mr. Bill


      13        Silcox on January 23rd via e-mail.  Just an


      14        explanation of why I requested a deferral at the


      15        January 15th meeting.


      16             Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      18             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no other ex-parte,


      20        Mr. Silcox, good afternoon.


      21             Welcome.


      22             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.


      23             Bill Silcox, 6750 Cisco Gardens Road West.


      24             I represent Greg Strayer.  Generally,


      25        Mr. George Grosse (phonetic) is also a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        representative.  We ask that we can defer


       2        tonight.  We've been trying to get ahold of


       3        Ms. Lee.  We just recently had the opportunity


       4        to talk with your -- we just started today,


       5        George Grosse and myself.  I'm sorry.


       6             We ask to defer it.  That way we can have


       7        time to get with Ms. Lee.  I did talk to


       8        Mr. Yarborough.


       9             I appreciate your response, but we've yet


      10        to get with Ms. Lee on this and kind of go over


      11        a few things and kind of get her brought up to


      12        speed on this.


      13             We would ask that we could defer this.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilmember Lee.


      15             MS. LEE:  Yes.  Good afternoon.


      16             Would you tell me again your name and who


      17        you're representing?


      18             MR. SILCOX:  Bill Silcox.  I represent Greg


      19        Strayer.


      20             MS. LEE:  Okay.  And you said you started


      21        today trying to reach me?


      22             MR. SILCOX:  Yes, ma'am.


      23             MS. LEE:  Oh, okay.


      24             MR. SILCOX:  Yes, ma'am.


      25             We were unable to reach you, so we kind of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        rushed down here to try to see if we can defer


       2        this and have another opportunity to get with


       3        you.


       4             Is that possible?


       5             MS. LEE:  Yeah, that is possible.


       6             I think we're ready to move with this,


       7        aren't we?


       8             Well, no.  Okay.  I'll wait.  That's no


       9        problem.  I'll be happy to get with you.


      10             MR. SILCOX:  Okay.  Thank you.


      11             Myself and Mr. George Grosse was the one


      12        that tried to contact you today.


      13             MS. LEE:  Okay.  That's no problem.  I'll


      14        be happy to get with you and Mr. Grosse.


      15             MR. SILCOX:  Okay.  Thank you.


      16             MS. LEE:  Is he here?


      17             MR. SILCOX:  No, ma'am.  He wasn't able to


      18        be here.  That's why we're asking to defer it.


      19        It was kind of last minute for both of us.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no other


      21        speakers and a request without opposition to


      22        defer, we will continue the public hearing with


      23        no further action tonight.


      24             Committee members, item 27, 2007-1196.


      25        We'll open that public hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       2        public hearing with no further action.


       3             Item 28, 2007-1215.  We will open that


       4        public hearing.


       5             This is a matter that was discussed at the


       6        last meeting and as the discussions took place,


       7        there was an indication that there wasn't enough


       8        time for both sides to fully explain their case


       9        and their opinions in three minutes, and so


      10        we're going to do something unusual and extend


      11        each side ten minutes speaking time on this


      12        issue.


      13             We'll begin with the applicant, Mr. T.R.


      14        Hainline, for him to make his point, and then


      15        the opposition will have ten minutes, which is


      16        represented, I believe, by Mr. Paul Harden,


      17        and then Mr. Hainline will have time -- ten


      18        minutes -- if remaining time is left in your ten


      19        minutes, you can have time for rebuttal at the


      20        end of it.


      21             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      23             MR. HAINLINE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.


      25             This is a very ordinary and normal





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        development agreement.  Your staff has


       2        recommended approval.  The district councilman,


       3        Mr. Holt, has no objection.  There are no


       4        residents in the area who've spoken in


       5        opposition to this.  However, Mr. Harden has


       6        spoken in opposition.


       7             This has been deferred three times.  And


       8        after the last LUZ meeting, Mr. Harden


       9        approached me in the back of the room and stated


      10        that he would withdraw his opposition if we


      11        purchased his property, which is about


      12        3,600 feet down the road and across Garden


      13        Street.  We can't do that, and we won't, no


      14        matter what the vote of this committee is here


      15        tonight.


      16             We're happy for Mr. Harden to develop and


      17        sell his property.  We didn't object to the two


      18        rezonings of his property to the comprehensive


      19        plan amendment on his property, which since has


      20        been challenged by the DCA.


      21             We haven't intervened in the proceedings


      22        where the DCA has challenged his comp plan


      23        amendment, and we haven't opposed his fair


      24        share, which is currently pending before the


      25        council.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             But when he opposes our development


       2        agreement, we have to be here and we have to


       3        defend, so I want to talk about the reasons he's


       4        offered for opposing this.


       5             Point one, which is at the first tab in the


       6        booklet, Mr. Harden says that this development


       7        agreement involves an old concurrency


       8        certificate that's just been sitting around.


       9        Well, "old" is a relative term.  In the context


      10        of other development agreements that you've


      11        approved, this applicant's concurrency


      12        certificate is actually average.  It's not old.


      13             I've reviewed the last eleven development


      14        agreements that you've approved, going back to


      15        October of last year, while this one was


      16        pending.  Five of those eleven development


      17        agreements involved concurrency certificates


      18        older than this one.  So this isn't old, it


      19        hasn't been sitting around.  It's about average


      20        for development agreements that you've approved.


      21             The second point that Mr. Harden has made


      22        is that since we were issued a concurrency


      23        certificate, we haven't been moving forward with


      24        development.  The facts show otherwise.


      25             Since 2004, the applicant here has spent





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        almost $700,000 in engineering, permitting,


       2        environmental, surveying, and site work.  It's


       3        all at tab 2, listed by annual expenditures in


       4        each category.  That figure does not include the


       5        purchase price of the property, which is in the


       6        millions of dollars.


       7             Point three.  Mr. Harden states that we


       8        have not maintained our, quote, place in line,


       9        our place in the concurrency queue when we


      10        applied for this development agreement.  Again,


      11        the facts show otherwise.


      12             The code provides that while we're


      13        negotiating a development agreement, we hold our


      14        place in line by entering into a Memorandum of


      15        Agreement signed by the planning director.


      16             We have maintained a signed Memorandum of


      17        Agreement with the planning director


      18        continuously since October of 2006.


      19             Last year we sought a different development


      20        agreement, one for the entire property for ten


      21        years and with a general performance schedule.


      22        That was denied.


      23             After input from the City's staff and from


      24        you, we're now proposing a development agreement


      25        only for the retail portion of the development





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        for five years and with a more specific


       2        performance schedule.


       3             Throughout that entire period, we've


       4        continued to maintain our place in line with a


       5        Memorandum of Agreement signed by the planning


       6        director.


       7             Your lawyers and your staff tell us that


       8        we've complied with the code and have kept our


       9        place in line.  We urge you to consult with them


      10        if you have any questions on this issue.


      11             Point four.  Finally, Mr. Harden says that


      12        our development is not consistent with the


      13        comprehensive plan.  Again, the facts show


      14        otherwise.


      15             The City Council, twice, expressly found


      16        our development to be consistent with the


      17        comprehensive plan.  In the recitals in the two


      18        ordinances approving the zoning of this


      19        property, the City Council expressly found that


      20        this development is consistent with the


      21        comprehensive plan.


      22             Also, since then, City agencies have issued


      23        three approvals, which can only be issued if we


      24        are consistent with the comprehensive plan,


      25        verification of PUD compliance, a site plan





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        approval, and the approval of full engineering


       2        and construction plans.


       3             There's no reason for the council now to


       4        change its previous position and conclude that


       5        our development is somehow inconsistent with the


       6        comprehensive plan, particularly after the


       7        applicant has purchased the property and has


       8        spent $700,000 in engineering and permitting.


       9             In conclusion, this development agreement


      10        we're seeking is no different from the hundreds


      11        that you've approved since 1993.


      12             The staff recommends approval.  The


      13        district councilman, Mr. Holt, has no


      14        objection.  We've addressed the points that


      15        Mr. Harden has made before you.


      16             I ask that you approve this development


      17        agreement.


      18             Our proposed revised performance schedule


      19        is at tab 5, and we offer that as an amendment


      20        to the bill, and I'd like to reserve rebuttal


      21        for the rest of my time.


      22             Thank you.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      24             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. HARDEN:  Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace


       2        Boulevard.


       3             I do not own any property.  I have not


       4        offered to sell Mr. Hainline any property.  I


       5        told him there was a way to resolve this, it


       6        involved the purchase of some land on Garden


       7        Street because this has been going on for two


       8        years.


       9             The fact -- I'm going to assume that he


      10        misunderstood because of his comments, because


      11        they are not truthful.


      12             This piece of property, this development


      13        agreement, was the subject of a hearing before


      14        the LUZ Committee on May 15th, 2007.  This


      15        committee heard this exact same argument on this


      16        exact same piece of property and unanimously


      17        denied the application for the development


      18        agreement.  Mr. Shad voted against it.


      19        Ms. Jones voted against it.  Mr. Clark isn't


      20        here, he voted against it.  Councilman Ray and


      21        Councilwoman Self voted against it.


      22             Two weeks later, the full City Council


      23        heard this same exact argument and by a vote of


      24        eighteen to nothing denied the same exact


      25        development agreement.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             There were two bases that the Planning


       2        Department -- the LUZ Committee and the City


       3        Council denied this development agreement on.


       4        One is the record in the file.  It was


       5        introduced into evidence and it's part of the


       6        record.


       7             The applicant filed on October 6th, 2006,


       8        for this development agreement.  For a period of


       9        a year and a half he wrote letters.  While


      10        everybody around him developed and everybody


      11        around him went forward, he wrote letters


      12        saying, Please extend our concurrency request,


      13        we're working on engineering plans.  Please do


      14        this, we're working on this, we're working on


      15        that.


      16             He didn't do anything for a year and a half


      17        and let everybody else go forward and pay


      18        concurrency.  For instance, one of my clients --


      19        not me -- one of my clients has a development


      20        about 100 yards from here, across Garden


      21        Street.  And for 40,000 square feet of


      22        concurrency on that retail site, we're required


      23        to pay $750,000.


      24             Mr. Hainline's client, however, signed up


      25        out there and kept holding it in abeyance,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        holding it -- but he has no intention of ever


       2        developing this commercial site at the location,


       3        and I'll talk to you about that in one second,


       4        but he's held it unfairly through the process.


       5             The process lets you hold it for 90 days.


       6        He wrote a series of 14 letters that I


       7        introduced into evidence saying I'm doing


       8        things, which were boldface lies, which kept the


       9        process going.  And based on that, the committee


      10        felt that he was not, in fact, moving forward in


      11        good faith.


      12             The second issue that the committee denied


      13        it on, and then the council, was lack of


      14        compliance with the comprehensive plan.


      15        Chapter 163, specifically 163.3227, requires


      16        that before you approve a development agreement,


      17        you have to find that the development agreement


      18        is consistent with the comprehensive plan.


      19             This zoning is not consistent with the


      20        comprehensive plan.  It is a rural village.  It


      21        has developed 700-and-something houses,


      22        40,000 square feet of commercial and additional


      23        office on an agriculturally-designated piece of


      24        land.  And the way they got around that was to


      25        propose a rural village.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The requirements of a rural village are


       2        very specific in the comprehensive plan.  It


       3        requires, one, that you be 500 acres in size.


       4        No dispute whether you're 500 or not.  Two, that


       5        you be on a collector road.  And, three, that


       6        you have more than -- you have three or more


       7        uses.


       8             This site is 380 acres.  You can't fudge


       9        that you're 500 acres.


      10             The LUZ Committee, when it approved the


      11        rural village, did it over the strenuous


      12        objections of Councilwoman Self and, quite


      13        frankly, Councilman Shad.  And then when they


      14        came back and revisited it, they realized that


      15        they had the wool pulled over their eyes.


      16             It's on Garden Street.  Garden Street is


      17        not a collector road.  They found it didn't


      18        comply with that.


      19             And, third, the third use that they added


      20        in was a recreational use, using a thousand


      21        acres of land across Garden Street that the City


      22        had purchased for a park.


      23             This fact -- in fact, this development does


      24        not meet the requirements of a rural village


      25        and, in fact, is not in compliance with the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        comprehensive plan, and the committee found


       2        that, and that was the second basis that they


       3        unanimously denied this request.


       4             There is a procedure set forth in the rules


       5        in chapter 655, and it says you file for a CCAS,


       6        and then when your CCAS gets denied because of


       7        activity, you take one route, or if there's


       8        available capacity, you apply for a development


       9        agreement.  And that's what they're doing under


      10        part 2, applying for a development agreement to


      11        hold capacity that they've been holding for two


      12        years while other developers have paid 750- or


      13        a million dollars for that same capacity that


      14        they -- that they actually move forward.


      15             But then there's a process.  You file your


      16        application, you file your development


      17        agreement.  It's heard through the committee


      18        process, and then the council has three


      19        options.  It has the option to approve the


      20        development agreement, approve the development


      21        agreement with amendments, or disapprove.


      22             This council unanimously disapproved this


      23        development agreement, an eighteen-to-nothing


      24        vote, a six-to-nothing vote in the LUZ


      25        Committee, this same exact development





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        agreement.  Mr. Hainline suggests to you that


       2        it's a different agreement, but the exact same


       3        CCAS number is on the old legislation as is on


       4        this legislation.  So it's the exact -- and it's


       5        the exact same piece of property.  It denied


       6        it.


       7             So instead of being denied and the capacity


       8        going back into the hopper as this -- as the


       9        committee suggested it should have, they just


      10        started all over again.  They didn't go back to


      11        the back of the line.  They're back before you


      12        with the exact same legislation.  So they aren't


      13        following the process that the -- that chapter


      14        655 says that they should do.


      15             I want to go through Mr. Hainline's points


      16        real quick.


      17             I don't see the time here, so if somebody


      18        can tell me how close I am to --


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  You have about four minutes


      20        left.


      21             MR. HARDEN:  Okay.  I'll go quickly.


      22             In the context of other development, it's


      23        not old.  It was filed in October of 2006.  The


      24        fact that somebody else got away with it is not


      25        an excuse for allowing this applicant to keep





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        saying, I'm doing something, and not doing it,


       2        and then allowing them to come in and take


       3        advantage of everybody else that's out there


       4        paying for roads.


       5             By definition, it's old.  The fact that


       6        somebody else did it doesn't make it not old.


       7             The second one is that the applicant has


       8        been actively moving forward with development.


       9        The active development out there is for the


      10        homes.  They're trying to develop houses out


      11        there.  They haven't done anything with regard


      12        to this commercial activity.


      13             There's two separate CCASs.  When it helps


      14        him, he wants to separate the CCAS -- I mean, to


      15        put them together.  When it hurts him, he wants


      16        to separate them.


      17             This activity -- the engineering has to do


      18        with a 700- or 1,100-unit subdivision they're


      19        doing out there.  It doesn't have anything to do


      20        with the commercial activity that they're


      21        seeking this application for today.


      22             I drove by there last weekend.  What's


      23        today?  It's Tuesday.  I drove by there on


      24        Saturday and I went up Garden Street, and


      25        there's no activity going on.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The third point is that the opinion of the


       2        planning staff, it's that the -- they have


       3        properly maintained a Memorandum of Agreement.


       4        That's just not true.


       5             When this council denied that CCAS -- I


       6        mean, that development agreement in May of 2007,


       7        that Memorandum of Agreement -- that Memorandum


       8        of Agreement says it's in effect until the


       9        council takes action on it.  The council took


      10        action on it.  They denied it.  At that time,


      11        the Memorandum of Agreement was gone.


      12             Fourth, he says that the council has twice


      13        found it in compliance with the comprehensive


      14        plan.  Well, in all due respect, I would suggest


      15        to you that when they denied the application --


      16        and Councilman Shad and Councilwoman Jones can


      17        tell you, the basis for that denial was that it


      18        was not in compliance with the comprehensive


      19        plan.


      20             But whether the council did or didn't


      21        before, the question -- is it 500 acres?  Well,


      22        no, it isn't.  Is it on a collector road?  Well,


      23        no, it isn't.  Does it have three uses?  Well,


      24        yeah, if you use the thousand acres that we, as


      25        taxpayers, bought across the street as the third





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        use.


       2             So the issue has been heard.  It's been


       3        vetted.  It's been heard by the LUZ Committee in


       4        great length.  You guys have heard it, I think


       5        this is -- I feel like Bill Murray in --


       6        whatever that day is -- Groundhog Day, because


       7        we keep coming back and back, but we also came


       8        to an end the first time in the LUZ Committee.


       9        And then the LUZ Committee, they unanimously


      10        denied it.  The council unanimously denied it.


      11             The facts have not changed.  It is


      12        blatantly unfair to let this person take


      13        advantage of the system, particularly when they


      14        don't meet the requirements of chapter 655 or


      15        chapter 163.


      16             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.


      18             Mr. Hainline, I think you had about three


      19        minutes -- four and a half.


      20             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


      21             MR. HAINLINE:  Thank you.


      22             If you have questions or concerns about


      23        whether we have not followed the process, not


      24        maintained our reservation, abused the process


      25        in some fashion, I urge you to consult with





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        someone who is not compensated by either party


       2        in this, consult with your lawyers and your


       3        staff.  What they have told us is we have done


       4        everything exactly pursuant to the code in


       5        maintaining our reservation and in properly


       6        seeking this development agreement.


       7             Let's revisit, just for a second, the LUZ


       8        hearing that happened on the previous and


       9        different development agreement that was for a


      10        different development, more, longer period of


      11        time, and a different performance schedule.


      12             When this came before LUZ last May, I


      13        believe it was, Mr. Duggan and I were


      14        representing the applicant.  We did not know


      15        that Mr. Harden was going to speak in


      16        opposition.  He did.  We asked for a deferral.


      17        It was not granted.  We did not have an


      18        opportunity to present the evidence that you


      19        have before you today; for example, regarding


      20        the activities that my client has done over the


      21        past three years.


      22             When it went to the full council, your


      23        General Counsel's Office sent a memorandum


      24        saying that it should be rereferred back to


      25        committee to allow the applicant to present





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        evidence regarding what Mr. Harden had said.  It


       2        was not rereferred back to committee and it came


       3        out of council.  I think Mr. Corrigan will


       4        remember the circumstances of that.


       5             So what you have before you is a different


       6        development agreement, less development, less


       7        time, different performance schedule.  And this


       8        time you have all the facts before you, facts


       9        that we did not get to present last time.


      10             Mr. Harden said a couple of things that


      11        were just flat wrong.  He said my client didn't


      12        do anything for those years.  You have the


      13        expenses before you.  You have the dates for the


      14        permit applications filed and obtained.  For


      15        example, a Corps of Engineers permit takes two


      16        years to get.  And the dates of our application


      17        and the date it was issued, which was last


      18        December, is right in those materials that I


      19        sent to you.  He was doing a lot of things.  You


      20        have to get some permits to start turning dirt


      21        for houses, and that often takes two to three


      22        years.


      23             He mentioned his fair share and how he is


      24        sitting there and he can't get the trips because


      25        we're hogging the trips.  As I said at the last





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hearing -- and Mr. Harden said this wasn't


       2        relevant, but he brought it up today --


       3        Mr. Harden won't get these trips.  He locked in,


       4        in his fair shares, to his amount that he has by


       5        paying his $500 before we even filed for this


       6        development agreement.


       7             He's locked in.  You denying this is not


       8        going to give him any trips or allow anyone to


       9        move forward behind us.  The only thing you


      10        denying this will do is it will take that retail


      11        development, which the council did want -- I


      12        think Mr. Shad and Ms. Jones would remember that


      13        this retail was actually added on to the PUD


      14        because the council was interested in us moving


      15        forward with retail as part of this PUD.  It was


      16        important to the council.


      17             If you deny this, it's a tremendous


      18        disincentive to ever do that development.  And,


      19        by the -- retail development.


      20             And, by the way, Mr. Harden said my client


      21        has no intention of developing the retail.


      22        Wrong.  He has no basis to state that.


      23             And why am I here?  Why am I fighting for


      24        this if we have no interest in it?  If we have


      25        no interest in developing it, I wouldn't be





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        here.  I wouldn't be fighting this.  So he's


       2        just wrong when he says that, and he has no


       3        basis to state it.


       4             That is my conclusion.  I urge you to


       5        consult with your lawyers and your staff on the


       6        procedural issues that are before you, and I


       7        thank you for your time.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hainline.


       9             Seeing no speakers, the public hearing is


      10        closed.


      11             We'll go to Councilmember Lee.


      12             MS. LEE:  Thank you.


      13             Mr. Corrigan, I have a question.  We are on


      14        item 28, correct?


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, we are.


      16             MS. LEE:  You know, I thought this was my


      17        district.  And in looking at the summary from


      18        the Planning Department for this ordinance, it


      19        says City Council district -- both of the


      20        districts, and I want to know, why isn't that


      21        listed in here?


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Planning Department, do you


      23        want to give us feedback on that?


      24             MS. LEE:  Everybody is saying they talked


      25        to Mr. Holt.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I thought it was.  I've got to know the


       2        district lines.  It's right here.


       3             I would like to know, why is only


       4        District 11 showing?


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  According to the GIS map


       6        that I just looked at, the outside border --


       7        your district -- the outside border of the


       8        entire project is in district 11, but your


       9        district runs right up to the edge of the


      10        property line.


      11             MS. LEE:  I think it's -- a part of this is


      12        in 8.  There's no question.


      13             MR. CROFTS:  Through the Chair to Ms. Lee,


      14        in looking at our staff report dated December 4,


      15        2007, council districts listed do include


      16        Council District 8 as well as Council District


      17        11.  That's correct.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't have that answer.  I


      19        don't know --


      20             MS. LEE:  He just told you.  They were


      21        verifying what I said was true, was correct.


      22             Oh, I'm sorry, Mike.  You meant that you


      23        don't have an answer as to why it's not --


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Why it's not on there.


      25             MS. LEE:  I apologize.  I'm sorry.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's okay.


       2             MS. LEE:  Well, this sheet needs to, in the


       3        future -- you know, if it's in the district I


       4        represent too, then it seems to me that I would


       5        have some input in this, output or input.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  I agree with you.


       7             MS. LEE:  And it's only listing


       8        District 11.


       9             Who is responsible for putting this


      10        together?


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  The Planning Department has


      12        more input that they'd like to --


      13             MS. LEE:  Well, I know I represent a


      14        portion of that.  I mean, I know where the


      15        people vote.  I know the precinct.


      16             MR. KELLY:  According to the -- through the


      17        Chair, according to the GIS, it appears that


      18        District 8 -- it basically comes up and touches


      19        the property line of this overall parcel, but


      20        it's not included within the boundaries of the


      21        parcel.  The entire parcel appears to be in


      22        District 11.


      23             MS. LEE:  Yeah, but if it touches it, then


      24        it's a part of it.


      25             You-all rarely make any mistakes.  I know





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        you wouldn't have put this here if it wasn't


       2        true.  I know where Garden Street is and I know


       3        where the other street is, and I know it's


       4        in 8.


       5             Are you taking this up today?


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's my goal.


       7             (Ms. Lee confers with Mr. Kelly.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Lee, you still have the


       9        floor.


      10             MS. LEE:  There's a part of it in it.  It


      11        might be minor, it might be teeny, but it's in


      12        it.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilmember Shad.


      14             MR. SHAD:  This is going to be for Dylan.


      15             (Inaudible discussion.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Whatever y'all want to


      17        present, can you put it on the record for me,


      18        please?  It's on the floor instead of on the


      19        record.


      20             MR. CROFTS:  For the record, to the


      21        committee, the best available information that


      22        we have -- I concur with our GIS mapping system


      23        here -- shows that in the very southwestern


      24        portion of this piece of property that --


      25        southeastern, I'm sorry -- the southeastern





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        portion of this property does indicate that


       2        there is a portion, a sliver of this property in


       3        Council District 8.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilmember Shad,


       5        you have the floor.


       6             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.


       7             Through the Chairman, I guess, to Shannon


       8        and/or Dylan.  The original rezoning went


       9        through the committee and was well debated


      10        several years ago and then went to the full


      11        council.


      12             I believe -- I think I voted against it one


      13        time and for it one time.  I was really on the


      14        fence.


      15             When it's before us now -- what's before us


      16        now, could you speak briefly about how -- is it


      17        warranted to use the concern about the rezoning


      18        and have that as criteria to consider for a


      19        denial now?


      20             (Mr. Reingold confers with Ms. Eller.)


      21             MR. REINGOLD:  I apologize for the delay,


      22        sir.  I just wanted to make sure that Ms. Eller


      23        and I had an opportunity just to kind of briefly


      24        speak.


      25             Looking at the statute, there's a 30-day





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        time frame in which -- if someone wanted to


       2        appeal a development order such as the rezoning,


       3        that it be inconsistent with the comprehensive


       4        plan.  It's been a little more than 30 days, I


       5        think, since that point.


       6             I think Mr. Harden's argument was that the


       7        underlying development and the rezoning was


       8        inconsistent with the comp plan.  And if that's


       9        the argument he was making, I think it's a


      10        little -- it's outside of his window now to try


      11        to relitigate that or reargue that before this


      12        commission -- or this body, sir.


      13             MR. SHAD:  But as committee members, I


      14        imagine we could take that into consideration


      15        when making a determination on this


      16        legislation?


      17             And that's fine.  You don't -- I can handle


      18        that answer myself, but I appreciate that.


      19             Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't have any other


      21        speakers on the queue now.


      22             Councilwoman Jones.


      23             MS. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             To the staff, what's the difference in


      25        what's being presented here tonight and what was





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        presented to us last time?  Now that we've heard


       2        two different scenarios.


       3             MR. SMITH:  Through the Chair -- Stephen


       4        Smith.


       5             The difference is that the first MOA, the


       6        first development agreement that came through


       7        had the -- included a residential component to


       8        it for the 7- -- I believe it was about 749


       9        single-family homes, and so that -- they dropped


      10        out of that when they came in with the second


      11        development agreement for the 40,000 square feet


      12        of commercial only.


      13             MS. JONES:  When you say "they dropped out


      14        of that," explain that one more time.


      15             MR. SMITH:  Sure.


      16             When they filed their second Memorandum of


      17        Agreement, it was for the commercial only and


      18        not the residential.  So it went from -- the


      19        original MOA was for mixed use, combining both


      20        the commercial and the residential.


      21             The second MOA, when they came in with that


      22        one -- because they didn't -- they realized they


      23        didn't need the residential anymore, and so they


      24        came in with just the commercial MOA.


      25             MS. JONES:  Okay.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilwoman


       2        Jones.


       3             Councilmember Webb.


       4             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


       5             To either the General Counsel or to


       6        Planning --


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  (Inaudible.)


       8             MR. WEBB:  I'll yield the floor to


       9        Councilwoman Lee if she --


      10             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)


      11             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  Mr. Harden -- I guess --


      12        I apologize because I don't have the benefit of


      13        institutional knowledge here.  I wasn't around


      14        when this came before the LUZ and the council


      15        before.


      16             Mr. Harden stated that this same applicant


      17        or something substantially similar -- or


      18        substantively the same as what's before us


      19        tonight came before the council --


      20             (Timer interruption.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry, your time is up.


      22             MR. WEBB:  Where's the hook?  My three


      23        minutes is up.  Thank you.


      24             All right.  May 15th, 2007, Mr. Harden


      25        states that -- something that was substantively





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the same as what's before us was denied.  Is


       2        that accurate?


       3             MS. ELLER:  I can explain that, if you give


       4        me just a moment to get myself led into it.


       5             When you apply for concurrency, you all


       6        know that you apply for a CCAS.  And, in this


       7        case, the applicant had two CCAS numbers.  There


       8        was a CCAS for residential and there was a CCAS


       9        for commercial.


      10             Now, if you're denied a CCAS, that's when


      11        you go get a fair share.  That's not what


      12        happened here.


      13             If you have a CCAS, you may get extensions


      14        of your CCAS, but ultimately if you don't


      15        convert your CCAS into a reservation


      16        certificate, pull permits, and start bulldozing,


      17        you have the opportunity to continue to hold on


      18        to your trips by entering into a development


      19        agreement.


      20             Now, in the middle of that, after you get


      21        your CCAS and you realize that you're not going


      22        to immediately pull your permits and get a CRC,


      23        but before you get your development agreement


      24        passed by City Council, what you do in order to


      25        hold on to those trips is you enter into what's





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        called this Memorandum of Agreement.  It's


       2        called an MOA.  And what the MOA does is it


       3        preserves the trips that you have held under


       4        your CCAS application and continues to hold that


       5        in -- hold your spot in the system until your


       6        development agreement ultimately gets either


       7        passed, denied, whatever.


       8             What happened in this case is that the


       9        applicant had an MOA for those two CCASs, the


      10        residential and the commercial.  They filed for


      11        a development agreement for those two CCASs


      12        together, the residential and the commercial.


      13        The MOA that was in place to keep their spot in


      14        line, still valid.


      15             That development agreement for that thing


      16        combined got denied.  But while it was being


      17        denied by the council, their Memorandum of


      18        Agreement was still valid, holding their spot in


      19        line.


      20             So when Steve Smith says they dropped back


      21        into their MOA -- when that development


      22        agreement was denied by the council, they


      23        dropped back into their MOA, which was holding


      24        the spot in line for those two CCASs.


      25             They realized that, for the residential





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        portion, they weren't going to try to extend the


       2        holding on to of those trips.  They just went


       3        and pulled a CRC for residential.


       4             The only thing that they need to now extend


       5        and hold on to is that commercial portion.


       6             So they have this MOA, which was still


       7        holding their spot in line.  They extended that


       8        MOA, which is very common -- we extend MOAs


       9        during the time that we're negotiating


      10        development agreements -- and they applied for a


      11        second and different development agreement,


      12        which is only for that commercial portion.


      13             So now they're before you with a


      14        development agreement for the commercial CCAS.


      15        It was originally two CCASs together under the


      16        previous development agreement that was denied.


      17        But during that whole time, they had this


      18        Memorandum of Agreement in effect, in existence,


      19        holding their spot back in the CMSO.


      20             And, as Steve said, they fell back into


      21        their MOA, looked at what their MOA was holding


      22        on to, those two different CCASs, realized that


      23        the residential portion was denied by you-all


      24        because it was combined with the commercial,


      25        went ahead and they -- I think they pulled a CRC





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        for residential development.  So now those trips


       2        are -- they've been used.


       3             Now they want to just hold on to the trips


       4        for the commercial portion as part of this


       5        development agreement, and this development


       6        agreement is only five years and with a more


       7        detailed performance schedule as opposed to the


       8        previous development agreement which combined


       9        the commercial and residential, which was


      10        requested for ten years.


      11             And that system, as I understand it from


      12        Steve Smith and the Planning Department, is not


      13        uncommon, that people will go down a certain


      14        route with CCAS numbers and the development


      15        agreement, fall back to their MOA, reconfigure


      16        the CCASs, come forward with a different


      17        development agreement, combine CCASs from other


      18        places and put them all together into a new and


      19        different development agreement.


      20             Now, that is not uncommon and that we


      21        weren't doing anything that was strange or


      22        treating them special.  And there was no


      23        requirement that after a development agreement


      24        is denied, that they're out of line.  As long as


      25        they have that underlying Memorandum of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Agreement still valid and hadn't expired, they


       2        were able to fall back into it, make


       3        adjustments, and move forward again with another


       4        development agreement.


       5             MR. WEBB:  Through the Chair to Ms. Eller,


       6        but the Memorandum of Agreement covered both the


       7        commercial part of the project and the


       8        residential?


       9             MS. ELLER:  Yes.


      10             And then when they went -- their Memorandum


      11        of Agreement was still valid, had not expired.


      12        They came in and amended the Memorandum of


      13        Agreement to remove the residential because now


      14        they knew they were only moving forward with


      15        commercial --


      16             MR. WEBB:  After the denial of the --


      17             MS. ELLER:  Correct, but before the


      18        previous Memorandum of Agreement had expired, so


      19        they still had the ability to come in and


      20        request an amendment or a change to that MOA


      21        because it was still valid.


      22             And it was obviously after it had been


      23        denied by council, they realized that the


      24        residential portion -- they either had to pull a


      25        CRC and move forward or -- or they weren't going





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to be able to hold on to the trips any longer.


       2             So they did choose to actually make a


       3        concurrency reservation certificate, and they --


       4        they've got their engineering and permitting


       5        moving forward for residential.


       6             MR. WEBB:  Through the Chair to Ms. Eller,


       7        are there any written policies from the Planning


       8        Department -- you said the Planning Department.


       9        Are there any written policies that cover this


      10        type of situation?  And are they in compliance


      11        with those policies?


      12             And I do reiterate "written policies."


      13             MR. SMITH:  Through the Chair, yes.


      14             It's actually contained in the Memorandum


      15        of Agreement, understanding that -- it


      16        explicitly lays out the procedures and approvals


      17        for that, for the amendment.


      18             MR. WEBB:  Okay.  Thank you.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilmember


      20        Webb.


      21             I have no other speakers in the queue.  I


      22        know Councilwoman Lee was --


      23             MS. LEE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             Mr. Chairman, we have a more visual map,


      25        and there is more than a sliver of this in the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        area that I represent.  I think a sliver is like


       2        a teeny-weeny piece.


       3             I don't know what the wishes of the


       4        committee is, but I'm going to ask that it be


       5        deferred.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, I can tell you that


       7        the wish of the chairman is that -- it's been on


       8        the agenda since November 13th, and I'd like to


       9        move it out.


      10             MS. LEE:  Well, Mr. Chairman, I hear you,


      11        but I have not been -- I have not been treated


      12        fairly as a district councilperson.


      13             A portion of this is in District 8, which I


      14        initially thought.  But going by this, it


      15        misrepresents it.  And I am a councilperson who


      16        represents a portion of this, and I should have


      17        an opportunity to ask questions or be involved


      18        or something.  You know, I -- that's all I'm


      19        asking, Mr. Chairman, and I think that's only


      20        fair.


      21             Obviously, they have only talked to one


      22        councilperson about this, and that's been


      23        Mr. Holt.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I understand that.


      25             MS. LEE:  And I think in all courtesy to me





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        as part -- a portion of the district


       2        councilperson, I would ask that it be deferred.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, that's typically --


       4        when a district councilperson asks for a


       5        deferral, typically I would handle it at this


       6        committee.


       7             I'm upset to find out at this late hour


       8        that it includes -- that you're -- you're a


       9        district councilperson, and I understand -- I


      10        mean, I've seen four different versions and all


      11        that, so -- that's very upsetting to me, that --


      12        especially when I extend the rules for longer


      13        items of debate and then run into -- that's


      14        extremely aggravating to the Chair.


      15             But having said that, the way that this


      16        committee operates and the respect they have for


      17        the district councilperson, I don't think we


      18        have too much of a choice this evening.  But to


      19        defer this item, that's very -- but it's very


      20        aggravating to me as the chairman of this


      21        committee to do that because, as I said, there's


      22        been so much time put in by this committee at


      23        this point.


      24             Councilmember Lee.


      25             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, I hear what you're





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        saying.


       2             I have one question.  Have Mr. Harden and


       3        Mr. Hainline attempted to work something out at


       4        this point?


       5             I heard Mr. Hainline's comments, and I'm


       6        just wondering, are they going to try to work


       7        something out to -- no one has talked to me


       8        about it.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm happy to have


      10        Mr. Hainline answer that question if he's


      11        willing to answer it.


      12             MS. LEE:  And let me just say for the


      13        record, Mr. Chairman, my deep concern -- why I


      14        asked for this deferral.


      15             As you know, a lot of times when you don't


      16        think that things are going to fall back on you,


      17        things happen.  Someone could easily say in the


      18        future, well, Ms. Lee let such and such happen


      19        or Ms. Lee didn't say anything.  And I have not


      20        had any input into this issue.


      21             If I vote on it, that's well and good.  But


      22        inasmuch as I'm a partial representative, any


      23        repercussions, I'm probably -- you know, will be


      24        a part of that, and I think that I should be


      25        able to at least cover myself by at least being





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        knowledgeable as a representative.  And after


       2        then, then let the chips fall where they may.


       3             So that's really my deep concern as a


       4        representative, that I don't think that I have


       5        sufficiently represented this issue.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Hainline, do you


       7        want to respond to her question, please?


       8             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


       9             MR. HAINLINE:  First, let me apologize.


      10             My only source of information is the GIS


      11        map, and I actually printed off the GIS map.


      12        And if there's other information that shows that


      13        it lies within your district, I apologize I


      14        didn't get with you, Ms. Lee.


      15             The GIS map shows it bordering but not


      16        encroaching on, and if -- again, that's the only


      17        source of information available to me.  So I


      18        apologize if I didn't get with you.


      19             In response to the question will Mr. Harden


      20        and I work it out, I won't go through the -- I


      21        won't go through all our discussions, no point


      22        in that, but at least as of right now, I would


      23        say there's absolutely zero chance that there's


      24        any workout, and I'm happy to go -- between


      25        Mr. Harden and myself.  I'm happy to go into





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        detail in that if you would like.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  I believe the question


       3        was has there been an attempt to work it out,


       4        and I --


       5             MR. HAINLINE:  Oh, yes, ma'am.


       6             Mr. Harden and I, who are friends and will


       7        still be friends after this, have been talking


       8        about it to each other since before this came


       9        up, since back before we even -- since back when


      10        it first came up to the committee in November or


      11        December.  We've been talking about it fairly


      12        continuously.  And so, yes, we have talked about


      13        it many, many times.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilmember Lee.


      15             MS. LEE:  Thank you, Mr. Corrigan.


      16             Well, again, I'm going to ask for the


      17        deferral, but I have a more -- another


      18        question.


      19             How could this error have happened?  And I


      20        don't -- I'm not being negative towards the


      21        Planning Department because I recognize errors


      22        can happen, you know, so -- but if it's one


      23        thing on the -- what do you-all call this?


      24             MR. KELLY:  The staff report.


      25             MS. LEE:  The staff report.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Then -- the staff report is indicative of a


       2        lot of times what we use to, you know, get


       3        particular information because on the actual


       4        agenda it's not particular.  Of course, there


       5        are other things.


       6             How could this have happened, through the


       7        Chair?


       8             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair to


       9        Councilmember Lee, I would just say, I mean, in


      10        our staff report, we did reflect that it was


      11        part of both council districts.


      12             The notifications that went out, I'm -- I


      13        wasn't able to see on the notifications if they


      14        reflected both council districts.


      15             MS. LEE:  Because, Mr. Chairman, what would


      16        be a problem is -- and this is even a deeper


      17        concern, and that's why I want to dig a little


      18        further into it.


      19             I think that the Planning Department was


      20        correct in their staff report.  So they were not


      21        in error.  I guess whoever puts the agenda


      22        together -- my question would be, the agenda,


      23        the way it reads for a particular item, who puts


      24        that together?  Where is that information


      25        derived from?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. ELLER:  That information comes from the


       2        legislation, and the legislation that came over


       3        indicated it was in District 11 because the GIS


       4        map that's accessible online, which may not be,


       5        obviously, the same as the GIS map that is used


       6        internally in the Planning Department, had that


       7        shading offset to the right a little bit, so it


       8        looked like that line that came down wasn't


       9        included in -- didn't overlap into that


      10        particular line on the property.


      11             That little triangular shading is shifted


      12        over to the right on the GIS map that --


      13             MS. LEE:  That's incorrect.


      14             MS. ELLER:  Yeah.


      15             So I think that the Planning Department has


      16        an internal access GIS, which is different from


      17        the GIS that's accessible on the Internet.


      18             MS. LEE:  Okay, Ms. Eller, but --


      19        Mr. Chairman, I'm going to try to get -- I'm


      20        very concerned about this.


      21             Then what is -- how -- I guess when you


      22        say -- Legislative Services actually puts the


      23        agenda together, correct?


      24             MS. ELLER:  Well, they get the information


      25        from whatever information is available on the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        GIS mapping system.  So they're going to get it


       2        from the Planning Department that sends the


       3        application over to OGC, which files the


       4        legislation.


       5             MS. LEE:  Okay.  So the actual legislation


       6        is filed by the Office of the General Counsel?


       7             MS. ELLER:  Yes, and we rely on the


       8        information from the Planning Department.


       9             MS. LEE:  Okay.  So let me ask this, then:


      10        All information pertinent to any particular


      11        issue is submitted to your office, correct?


      12             MS. ELLER:  Uh-huh.


      13             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Did you receive this staff


      14        report?


      15             MS. ELLER:  I did not receive the staff


      16        report.  That staff report comes out much later


      17        than when we file the legislation.


      18             I received the application, which has the


      19        development agreement attached to it, and in it


      20        there is a map.  And on it, the map, according


      21        to the GIS, was that GIS map that has that


      22        triangle shifted off to the right, which shows


      23        that it's not in District 8.  And that staff


      24        report comes out much later, after the


      25        legislation is already filed.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  Mike, I know this is taking a


       2        minute, but I appreciate your patience.


       3             Then after the Office of General Counsel


       4        then files -- then submits that information to


       5        Legislative Services.  And then, at some point,


       6        who then sees the staff report?


       7             MS. ELLER:  (Inaudible.)


       8             MS. LEE:  You never receive it?  The


       9        General Counsel's Office never sees this


      10        information?


      11             MS. ELLER:  We see the staff report, and


      12        if -- but the error that was there was not


      13        identified until someone that's reviewing it


      14        cross-checks it.  And we did not see that that


      15        was -- that there was a difference.  We did not


      16        see that, that there was a difference on there


      17        because the maps that we check showed it not --


      18             MS. LEE:  I'm not talking about the maps.


      19        I'm talking about the actual paper.


      20             MS. ELLER:  Yeah.  I did not see that staff


      21        report until last week -- two weeks ago.


      22             MS. LEE:  Till two weeks ago?


      23             MS. ELLER:  And I did not -- when I saw the


      24        staff report, I did not check the district


      25        against what was in the bill.  I relied upon the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        map that I checked on the computer when I filed


       2        it and I didn't go back and double-check it.


       3             MS. LEE:  Well, let me say this -- and I


       4        recognize that we're all human and mistakes are


       5        possible, and -- but it would seem to me that


       6        if, in fact, one thing was seen somewhere else


       7        and then seen here, somewhere it should have


       8        been noted to somebody and they should have


       9        said, "We have a problem."


      10             And I say that because at the end of the


      11        day, we -- things fall back on the person that's


      12        elected.  This could sometimes prove to be very


      13        bad.


      14             And then it leads to another question.  Did


      15        people in District 8 receive notification --


      16        proper notification?  You know, I don't know.


      17        You know, how would I know that, when, in fact,


      18        from what I'm hearing, it goes here, it goes


      19        there, it goes there.  And even though you note


      20        it, no one thought it was necessary to notify


      21        somebody, oh, stop for a minute.


      22             So I'm just trying to find out, then, and I


      23        don't know who I would -- who is responsible for


      24        the notifications that go to people living


      25        within X number of feet of the proposed site?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. ELLER:  The Planning Department.


       2             MR. SMITH:  Staff does that, through the


       3        Chair.  We do a 350 search and send out the


       4        notices to all the residents within 350 feet.


       5        So that didn't change anything with -- in this


       6        particular case.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  And, for the record, I


       8        believe in part of your package it shows the


       9        350 radius they used in this development.


      10             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Well -- but I know this,


      11        Mike, seems a little technical, but if they're


      12        relying on certain information and someone saw


      13        that -- I mean, in other words, there is nothing


      14        that indicates that a district council number is


      15        used when you send the 350 out?  In other words,


      16        that is not -- that is not an issue?


      17             MS. ELLER:  You're correct.


      18             The 350 feet is measured from the property


      19        line, and the database that is used to populate


      20        the list of addresses is purely based upon the


      21        names attached to the piece of dirt that is


      22        350 feet from the line, not which district it's


      23        in.


      24             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Well, Mr. Chairman, again,


      25        I don't think I received any calls.  I'm not





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sure, but I really feel -- I would, you know,


       2        ask that this item be deferred.  You know, at


       3        least I'm on record, you know, and I will have


       4        an opportunity.


       5             And if for some reason -- which it may not


       6        happen -- if someone wants to ask a question of


       7        Ms. Lee, why you didn't do this, or, Denise,


       8        whatever, at least I will be able to respond


       9        intelligently by at least having looked into


      10        it.


      11             As it stands now, you know, I just -- other


      12        than hearing things on the street, but I've not


      13        sat down and asked kind of -- for instance, what


      14        came up today, that even members of this


      15        committee had input before, when this came up


      16        before and it was voted on before, you know,


      17        those kind of things, you know, and the


      18        reasoning why it was done.


      19             I think Mr. Shad asked a question just now,


      20        Ms. Jones, what's the difference between then


      21        and now.  I think those things are very


      22        pertinent, you know, and I now represent the


      23        area.  And if nothing else, I want to know.


      24             And I don't want to hold up the meeting or


      25        delay the meeting, Mr. Corrigan, and I think





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        those are very technical questions.  And if I


       2        have the opportunity, I can get some answers.


       3             You know, I'm not trying to say I'm for or


       4        against it, I just don't know about it, and it


       5        seems to be a very tight -- a little


       6        controversial.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  I would agree with that


       8        assessment.


       9             MS. LEE:  So I just wanted -- Mr. Chairman,


      10        I hate to ask you to deviate from what you


      11        wanted to do.  I understand that, but I do thank


      12        you for doing it.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, in the time that


      14        you've been speaking, I've had a chance to look


      15        at both the agenda we're looking at and the


      16        report from the Planning Department, and they're


      17        not the same.


      18             The agenda shows District 11 and the


      19        Planning Department report shows two districts,


      20        and I respect -- you are a district


      21        councilperson, part of the Planning Department


      22        report.  So based on that -- I mean, the


      23        standard procedure of this committee is that we


      24        will defer the item at the request of the


      25        district councilperson.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So having said that -- and it is not a


       2        quasi-judicial matter that would get us in a


       3        little bit more precarious position.  So, based


       4        on that, I'm going to defer it -- very


       5        frustratedly, I will defer it because we've


       6        spent a great deal of time on this issue


       7        already.  And I appreciate the committee's


       8        patience as we try to work through this, and I


       9        appreciate the applicant and the opposition


      10        understanding of that decision.


      11             So with having said that, we'll go back and


      12        instead of closing the public hearing, we will


      13        continue the public hearing.


      14             Ms. Lee, I would ask you to please do your


      15        best effort to get -- in the next two weeks.  I


      16        really want to move this off our agenda, vote it


      17        up or down.  So I'd appreciate your --


      18             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.  I appreciate


      20        your commitment to do that prior to the next


      21        meeting.


      22             So that public hearing is continued with no


      23        further action.


      24             Committee members, we're still on page 9,


      25        bottom of the page.  2007-1230 is deferred.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Page 10.  Item 30, 2007-1248, is deferred.


       2             Item 31, 2007-1305.  We will open that


       3        public hearing.


       4             We have one speaker card, Mr. Charles Mann.


       5             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       7             MR. MANN:  Good evening, Mr. Chairman,


       8        members of the committee.


       9             Charles Mann, 165 Arlington Road,


      10        representing the landowner.


      11             This property has been before you several


      12        times before tonight.  Nothing has changed from


      13        the previous approval that y'all granted to this


      14        site except the size of the building.  We're


      15        increasing it from 45,000 square feet to


      16        72,000 square feet, and we'd seek your


      17        approval.  We know of no opposition that we


      18        have.


      19             Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Mann.


      21             I see no further speakers, so we'll close


      22        that public hearing.


      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the amendment.


      24             MR. WEBB:  Second.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendment.


       2             Could I have an explanation of the


       3        amendment, please.


       4             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.


       5             The amendment consists of seven conditions,


       6        and they are as follows:


       7             Number 1, "The developer shall be subject


       8        to the original legal description dated November


       9        20, 2007."


      10             Number 2, "The developer shall be subject


      11        to the original written description dated


      12        November 20, 2007."


      13             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject


      14        to the revised site plan dated January 24,


      15        2008."


      16             Number 4, "The required transportation


      17        improvements shall be made in accordance with


      18        the Development Services memorandum dated


      19        December 17, 2007, and the Transportation


      20        Planning section memorandum dated January 3rd,


      21        2007, or as otherwise approved by the Planning


      22        and Development Department."


      23             Number 5, "The maximum building height


      24        shall be two stories and 35 feet in height to


      25        the peak of the roof."





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Number 6, "Drive-through banks and


       2        restaurants may be permitted through a minor


       3        modification application.  Service or filling


       4        stations and outside sales and service other


       5        than holiday items shall be prohibited."


       6             Number 7, "The entrance drive shall be


       7        reconfigured with an extended throat length for


       8        the uninterrupted parking lot ingress and


       9        egress."


      10             That's it.  Thank you.


      11             (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crofts.


      13             Mr. Mann, are you in agreement?


      14             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, I believe we are.


      15        I'd like to ask Mr. Crofts, through the Chair,


      16        one question.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      18             MR. MANN:  You talked about the written


      19        description.  Did the written description, on


      20        the date that he mentioned, represent the


      21        72,000 square feet that was denoted at the


      22        Planning Commission hearing?


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Crofts.


      24             MR. KELLY:  The written description dated


      25        November 20th indicates 60,000 square feet.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. MANN:  I believe the -- at the Planning


       2        Commission, it was denoted that it was to be


       3        72,000 square foot.  I don't know whether we


       4        need to make that as an amendment or it was made


       5        up to 72,000 square feet.


       6             MR. KELLY:  We would be fine with just


       7        adding -- I guess, instead of replacing the


       8        written description, just adding another


       9        condition, basically allowing for the enclosed


      10        square feet not to exceed 72,000.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do we need to do that in the


      12        form of an amendment to that?


      13             MR. KELLY:  Yes, sir.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Or can it just be written


      15        in?


      16             MS. ELLER:  (Inaudible.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  It can all be incorporated.


      18             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, we'd be in


      19        agreement to that, yes, sir.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  There's a motion and a


      21        second on the amendment.


      22             Any discussion?


      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, all in favor,


      25        please say aye.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       2             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.


       3             MR. SHAD:  Second.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  There's a motion and second


       5        on 2007-1305 as amended.


       6             Any discussion?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Open the ballot.


       9             (Committee ballot opened.)


      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


      13             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      15             (Committee ballot closed.)


      16             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      17             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, committee, thank


      18        you all very much.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Mann.


      20             2007-1306, we will --


      21             I'm sorry.  By your action, you've approved


      22        2007-1305.


      23             I'm sorry.  I had to ask them to change my


      24        vote on that.  2007-1305 is approved.


      25             2007-1306.  We will open the public





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hearing.  We have one speaker, Mr. Peter Onken.


       2             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Onken, if you'll state


       4        your name and address for the record, please.


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


       6             Peter Onken, 2727 North Central, Phoenix,


       7        85004, on behalf of the owner.


       8             I'm for the project.  And if there's any


       9        questions, I'm happy to answer.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We appreciate that.


      11             Seeing no other speakers, we will close the


      12        public hearing.


      13             Do I have a motion on the amendment?


      14             MR. SHAD:  Move the amendment.


      15             MS. JONES:  Second.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      17        amendment.


      18             Mr. Crofts.


      19             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.


      20             The amendment is as follows:


      21             "The development shall be subject to the


      22        original legal description dated October 10,


      23        2007."


      24             Number 2, "The development shall be subject


      25        to the original written description dated





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        October 10, 2007."


       2             Number 3, "The development shall be subject


       3        to the original site plan dated September,


       4        2007."


       5             Number 4, "The development shall be subject


       6        to the review and approval of the Development


       7        Services Division memorandum dated December 9,


       8        2007, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority


       9        memorandum dated December 13, 2007, or as


      10        otherwise approved by the Development Services


      11        Division, the FDOT, JTA, and the Planning and


      12        Development Department."


      13             Number 5, "The 8-foot-high fence along the


      14        east property line shall not be required.  The


      15        rear elevations of the storage building and


      16        landscaping, per section 656.1216, may be used


      17        to satisfy the visual screening requirements."


      18             Number 6, "The development shall be subject


      19        to section 656.401(G), 1 through 7 of the zoning


      20        code.  A hedge shall be installed to visually


      21        screen truck storage display from 103rd Street,


      22        subject to the review and approval of the


      23        Planning and Development Department."


      24             That concludes the amendment.


      25             (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Sir, do you


       2        understand those conditions and agree to them?


       3             MR. ONKEN:  Yes, we do.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


       5             Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the


       6        amendment signal by saying aye.


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


       9             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.


      12             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on


      14        2007-1306 as amended.


      15             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


      16        record the vote.


      17             (Committee ballot opened.)


      18             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


      21             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      23             (Committee ballot closed.)


      24             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you just





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        approved 2007-1306.


       2             2007-1307.  Open that public hearing.  We


       3        have one speaker, Paige Johnston, who I do not


       4        see at this point.


       5             So she was here in support.  We'll close


       6        that public hearing.


       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the amendment.


       8             MR. SHAD:  Second.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion and second


      10        on the amendment to 2007-1307.


      11             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.


      12             The amendment is as follows:


      13             "The development shall be subject to the


      14        original legal description dated November 9,


      15        2007."


      16             Number 2, "The development shall be subject


      17        to original written description dated


      18        November 9, 2007."


      19             Number 3, "The development shall be subject


      20        to the original site plan dated November 6,


      21        2007."


      22             Number 4, "The development shall be subject


      23        to the review and approval of the Development


      24        Management Services memorandum dated January 23,


      25        2008, or as otherwise approved by the Planning





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and Development Department."


       2             Number 5, "Lighting shall be designed and


       3        installed so as to be directed downward and


       4        reflect back to the subject property, prevent


       5        glare and/or excessive light onto the


       6        surrounding property.  Light fixtures mounted on


       7        canopies shall be recessed so that the lens


       8        cover is flush with the bottom surface or


       9        ceiling of the canopy."


      10             Sixth and finally, "The development shall


      11        be subject to the City of Jacksonville


      12        commercial design guidelines for elements such


      13        as architecture, lighting, signage, and


      14        pedestrian design."


      15             Thank you.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crofts.


      17             Ms. Johnston, we're discussing 2007-1307.


      18        Just want to make sure you agree with those


      19        conditions.


      20             (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)


      21             MS. JOHNSTON:  Paige Johnston, 1301


      22        Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the


      23        applicant.


      24             Gosh, we move quickly after we get over a


      25        few things.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Yes, we are in agreement -- we are


       2        agreeable to the conditions.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


       4             Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the


       5        amendment signal by saying aye.


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


       8             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.


      11             MS. JONES:  Second.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on


      13        2007-1307 as amended.


      14             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


      15        record the vote.


      16             (Committee ballot opened.)


      17             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


      20             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      22             (Committee ballot closed.)


      23             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      25        approved 2007-1307.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. JOHNSTON:  Thank you.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good job.  Thank you.


       3             Top of page 11, item 34, 2007-1308.  We


       4        will open that public hearing.  We have three


       5        speaker cards:  Douglas Hudson, followed by Jeff


       6        Thompson, followed by E.J. Shrowder.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, sir.  Thank


      10        you for having me.


      11             My name is Douglas Hudson, 225 Water


      12        Street, Suite 110, here in Jacksonville,


      13        representing the owner and applicant in this


      14        matter.


      15             We have had -- if I could give you a brief


      16        bit of background.  This property that is in


      17        question before this committee tonight is a


      18        small parcel that has been carved off of a much


      19        larger parcel owned by a broadcasting company,


      20        Cox Radio, Incorporated.  This is their former


      21        studios, which they moved out of some years ago,


      22        relocated to another area of town.  They have


      23        held on to the studios, the building, and


      24        perhaps for future use.


      25             But through vandalism in the neighborhood,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the interior of the building was burned and has


       2        been rendered unusable.  The building has since


       3        been secured, but there continues to be


       4        vandalism in the area.


       5             And, at this time, in an effort to sort of


       6        help the neighborhood, the owner would like to


       7        bring this building back up to grade, gut the


       8        interior, renovate it and put it back to office


       9        use.


      10             There's a liability issue for having this


      11        building in its current condition, a serious


      12        liability issue for Cox Radio, which is a rather


      13        large company.  And I might add that the


      14        vandalism extends beyond the building itself.


      15        The entire parcel also contains what's commonly


      16        referred to as a transmitter shack, a smaller


      17        building that literally houses AM radio


      18        transmitters as well as five AM radio station


      19        aerials or towers.  Those too have all been


      20        vandalized.


      21             So we would ask that this council give


      22        serious consideration to allowing us to


      23        redevelop this, put the building and the


      24        property back into use and have some activity


      25        there at least five or six days a week that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hopefully through that, as well as security


       2        patrols, which Cox is currently paying for,


       3        would eliminate a good deal of this vandalism


       4        and, quite frankly, begin to improve that area.


       5             I'm happy to answer any questions you might


       6        have.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you.  I


       8        don't see any questions at this point.


       9             Jeff Thompson.


      10             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      13             Jeff Thompson, 1942 Hamilton Street.


      14             I own a small construction company and I


      15        hope to buy this piece of property and renovate


      16        it and put my construction company onto the


      17        site.  We are going to secure the site, clean it


      18        up, and hopefully make the whole neighborhood a


      19        little bit better.


      20             There's another site on that easement that


      21        is a screen and thread.  They do screens,


      22        T-shirts, hats.  And they've had a lot of


      23        security problems.  And we hope to clean the


      24        whole street up and help the whole neighborhood.


      25             Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       2             Mr. Thompson, could you come back?


       3        Councilwoman Lee has a question for you.


       4             MR. THOMPSON:  (Complies.)


       5             MS. LEE:  The gentleman that spoke before


       6        you didn't indicate that they were selling the


       7        property.  Do you know why?


       8             MR. THOMPSON:  He didn't indicate it?


       9             MS. LEE:  No.  He said that Cox -- I


      10        thought he said that Cox was going to clean it


      11        up.


      12             MR. THOMPSON:  They're going to clean up


      13        their parcel of it.  The whole parcel is


      14        22 acres.  They're selling 1.5 acres to myself.


      15             MS. LEE:  But he didn't even mention that.


      16        I'd just like to know why they didn't say they


      17        were selling it.


      18             MR. THOMPSON:  I think he said they were


      19        going to try to carve this small portion out.  I


      20        don't know exactly what he said.  But, yes, they


      21        are selling it.


      22             MS. LEE:  Okay.  When you say


      23        "construction," what will be -- what are you


      24        proposing to put on the site?


      25             MR. THOMPSON:  We are --





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  And how much residential -- where


       2        is this located?  Could you just kind of tell me


       3        where it's located.


       4             MR. THOMPSON:  Do you know where the


       5        Wal-Mart is on Normandy?


       6             MS. LEE:  Yes.


       7             MR. THOMPSON:  It's the radio towers behind


       8        it, but you access it from the next road over on


       9        Lenox.


      10             MS. LEE:  Oh, okay.  How much residential


      11        is adjacent to it?  Any at all?


      12             MR. THOMPSON:  There is some.  There is


      13        some, some commercial, and I believe there's a


      14        church.


      15             MS. LEE:  No, I said residential.


      16             MR. THOMPSON:  Yes.


      17             MS. LEE:  Is it a lot?


      18             MR. THOMPSON:  There is some residential


      19        but not much, and it's across a ditch and there


      20        is a big barrier there.


      21             MS. LEE:  Okay.  When you say


      22        "construction," what are you proposing to put


      23        on the site?


      24             MR. THOMPSON:  I run a construction


      25        company, and I would consider myself a paper





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        contractor.  We don't have bulldozers, we don't


       2        have equipment.  We just do the paperwork and


       3        the overseeing.


       4             MS. LEE:  The what, sir?


       5             MR. THOMPSON:  The paperwork and the


       6        overseeing of the construction sites.


       7             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Have you -- was there a


       8        need to post signs up?


       9             MR. THOMPSON:  Yes.


      10             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Did you hear anything --


      11        well, you wouldn't be the person to ask.


      12             MR. THOMPSON:  No.


      13             MS. LEE:  The Cox people would.


      14             Let me get him back up to the mic.


      15             MR. THOMPSON:  Okay.


      16             MS. LEE:  Please, Mr. Chairman.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hudson, if you'd come


      18        back up and answer questions, please.


      19             (Mr. Hudson approaches the podium.)


      20             MR. HUDSON:  Certainly.


      21             And I apologize if I wasn't clear.  I


      22        thought I did say that we were -- the parcel in


      23        question is being carved out of the much larger


      24        parcel, just the office building and some of the


      25        parking lot.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  You never mentioned you were


       2        going to sell it, but that's neither here nor


       3        there.


       4             Did you have any responses from any of the


       5        residential?


       6             MR. HUDSON:  To?


       7             MS. LEE:  People to --


       8             MR. HUDSON:  No, ma'am.


       9             MS. LEE:  Nobody has complained?


      10             MR. HUDSON:  No, ma'am.


      11             MS. LEE:  Okay.  All right.  That's all I


      12        wanted to know.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      14             MR. HUDSON:  Thank you.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hudson.


      16             MS. LEE:  Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Our last speaker is E.J.


      18        Shrowder.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  How you doing?


      22             My name is E.J. Shrowder.  I live at 6873


      23        Lenox Avenue.


      24             I purchased this property back in March of


      25        last year.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Could you speak a little


       2        more into that microphone, please.


       3             MR. SHROWDER:  Yes.


       4             I purchased this property about -- in March


       5        of last year.  And when I was checking this


       6        property out, I was told that the property was


       7        used only for radio use, signals, output, and


       8        it's a dead-end road.  And they don't have no


       9        easement way, they don't have no landscape.


      10        There's zero back there.  And there's a lot of


      11        people that lives there.  There's a lot of


      12        traffic.  There's -- the highway patrol gives


      13        20 to 30 tickets out between Memorial Park and


      14        Old Middleburg.


      15             Also, there's a lot of residences around


      16        there.  The whole area is confined with


      17        residences and commercial.  And I live right on


      18        the corner where this property is going in, and


      19        I do not want no more traffic coming through


      20        this property.


      21             That's it.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      23             Sir, Councilwoman Lee has a question for


      24        you.  Mr. Shrowder.


      25             MS. LEE:  Good evening.  You are a neighbor





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        adjacent to this proposed site, correct?


       2             MR. SHROWDER:  I'm right on -- I'm on the


       3        corner of that street.  That's not a street.


       4        That's an easeway [sic].


       5             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Are you opposed to what


       6        they're proposing to do?


       7             MR. SHROWDER:  Yes, I am.  Very much.


       8             MS. LEE:  Are there other neighbors out


       9        there opposed that you know of?


      10             MR. SHROWDER:  I really -- my ex-wife lives


      11        there.  I have grandkids that -- that's -- they


      12        don't have no parks, they don't have no


      13        sidewalks, and that road right there is used to


      14        been for kids to play on.


      15             MS. LEE:  Had you talked to the property


      16        owners about this?


      17             MR. SHROWDER:  When I bought that property


      18        in March --


      19             MS. LEE:  No, I mean, the property owners.


      20             MR. SHROWDER:  I didn't know that -- see, I


      21        didn't even get a letter like you didn't get a


      22        letter.  I didn't get a letter neither.


      23             MS. LEE:  Through the Chair to Planning, is


      24        he within 350 feet?


      25             MR. SHROWDER:  Yes, I am.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  And you did not receive a


       2        letter?


       3             MR. SHROWDER:  No, ma'am.


       4             MR. KELLY:  Any property owner within


       5        350 feet of the --


       6             MR. SHROWDER:  No, they wasn't -- no, I


       7        didn't receive one.


       8             MR. KELLY:  It's a landlocked parcel, the


       9        one acre, which was based on the notification,


      10        not the overall parcel that it was being cut out


      11        of.  But it appears, if they're on the corner,


      12        that they would be within the 350 feet as well.


      13             MS. LEE:  And he didn't receive the


      14        letter.


      15             MR. SHROWDER:  And this was purchased in


      16        March of last year, so I should have received


      17        the letter.


      18             MR. KELLY:  Yes.  The notifications are


      19        updated, I believe, in our database about twice


      20        a year.  So if he had purchased the property in


      21        March, it may not have been updated.


      22             MS. LEE:  You mean like March of '07?


      23             MR. SHROWDER:  Right.


      24             MS. LEE:  When was this sent out?  I would


      25        think that it would be updated on a regular





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        basis.  You wouldn't wait six months to update


       2        something.


       3             MR. SHROWDER:  Could I ask another


       4        question?  Who's the City Councilor of that


       5        district?


       6             MS. LEE:  Just one moment.


       7             MR. SHROWDER:  I thought Mr. Jones was.


       8             MS. LEE:  Sir.


       9             MR. SHROWDER:  I was told Mr. Jones was


      10        the --


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, it's Council President


      12        Davis's district.


      13             MS. LEE:  Daniel Davis, based on what's on


      14        here.


      15             MR. SHROWDER:  Maybe that's why he didn't


      16        return my calls.


      17             MR. KELLY:  The address -- the property was


      18        noticed, but it was addressed -- the


      19        notification was sent to a Lisa Pulley at that


      20        parcel number, 6873 Lenox.


      21             MR. SHROWDER:  She's the one that has the


      22        thread company, Screens & Threads company.


      23             MS. LEE:  We can't hear you.  What?


      24             MR. SHROWDER:  She's the one that has the


      25        Screens & Threads company.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  What is your address, sir?


       2             MR. SHROWDER:  6873 Lenox Avenue.


       3             MR. KELLY:  They did a notification to 6873


       4        Lenox Avenue.  It's --


       5             MR. SHROWDER:  No.  I actually called


       6        downtown and they said they didn't send it out


       7        to me.


       8             MS. LEE:  I'm not going to weigh in on


       9        this.  It's not in my district, but I do have to


      10        vote on these things.  And I don't even know if


      11        Mr. Davis is even aware that there is some


      12        concern.  I think the gentleman makes a point.


      13        I'm not opposed, you know, one way or the


      14        other.


      15             But, again, you know, when these people


      16        don't receive these notifications -- and I know


      17        our Planning Department does the best job that


      18        they can.  What do we do in circumstances like


      19        this?  You know, do you give people an


      20        opportunity to try to see if they can talk or


      21        something, you know?


      22             MR. KELLY:  According to the Duval County


      23        public records, the courthouse page, she was the


      24        owner as of April 10 of 2007.  So it was noticed


      25        correctly if the gentleman purchased the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        property from her at some point after that.  Our


       2        records just haven't been updated yet.


       3             MS. LEE:  But when was the notices sent


       4        out?  That's all I'm asking.


       5             MR. KELLY:  The notices were sent out


       6        timely and correctly.


       7             MS. LEE:  When though?  I just need to know


       8        the date.


       9             MR. SHROWDER:  About two weeks prior.


      10             MR. KELLY:  It looks like the notice was


      11        published January 11th.


      12             MS. LEE:  Of '08?


      13             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      14             MS. LEE:  That's no excuse to me.  If the


      15        person moved out in April -- May, June, July,


      16        August, September, October, November,


      17        December -- that's eight months.  Does the


      18        courthouse then update their records?


      19             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.


      20             It's still not updated, but it is the most


      21        up-to-date that we do have.


      22             MS. LEE:  That you-all have?


      23             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      24             MS. LEE:  So you-all get your addresses


      25        from them.  And within an eight-month period





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that could happen is what you're saying?


       2             MR. KELLY:  It has happened, yes.


       3             MS. LEE:  What brought you down here?  You


       4        saw the signs?


       5             MR. SHROWDER:  Right.  I called and asked


       6        when they were having a meeting.  And I asked


       7        them when they sent mine out, and they said they


       8        didn't send it out.


       9             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, again, it's not my


      10        district, but I'm on the committee.  I don't


      11        know.  You know, I don't if the gentleman can


      12        talk --


      13             MR. SHROWDER:  They're also having another


      14        meeting February 8th, but I ain't going to be


      15        able to be in town.  So I'd like to get that


      16        and -- if I can get -- get it referred to a


      17        different date.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  What bill are you speaking


      19        of?


      20             Step up to the microphone.  We still can't


      21        hear you.


      22             MR. SHROWDER:  I'd like to have -- they


      23        have one February 8th that they're going to try


      24        to get another waiver for property landscaping,


      25        5-foot landscaping that they trying to get to





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        zero.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let me go to Mr. Kelly and


       3        the Planning Department.


       4             MR. KELLY:  Yes.  Thank you.


       5             There is a companion administration


       6        deviation application that goes along with


       7        this.  That will not be heard until the outcome


       8        of this waiver of road frontage is decided.  So


       9        whatever the council decides to do as far as


      10        deferring it or hearing it tonight will depend


      11        on whether the AD gets heard or not.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll get Councilman


      13        Yarborough for the first time.


      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      15             Mr. Shrowder, since you're still up,


      16        actually, I noticed in the report here, it's --


      17        when the Planning Department inspected the


      18        property on January 29th, it said the sign


      19        wasn't posted.  But you mentioned you did see a


      20        sign.  Has that been within the last week?


      21             MR. SHROWDER:  It's been tore down.  The


      22        signs has been tore down.  They've been tore


      23        down probably a week after they was put up.


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  But at one pint,


      25        you did see them up?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. SHROWDER:  Right, I did.


       2             MR. YARBOROUGH:  So there was


       3        notification.  Okay.  I appreciate that.


       4             Thank you.


       5             The other thing I noticed, Mr. Chairman,


       6        that on the GIS it shows -- I think the lady's


       7        name who owns 6861 did receive a notice.


       8             And is there a list over there, Mr. Kelly


       9        or Mr. Huxford, that you-all have that shows who


      10        received the notification that are within, I


      11        guess, the 350 feet?


      12             I was just going to ask if the -- there's a


      13        few other adjacent parcels -- 6841, -51 and


      14        -57 -- that are right along in there, in that


      15        same area too, and I was going to ask if those


      16        individuals had received the notices because I


      17        notice Ms. Pulley's property is actually within


      18        the PUD and also the CGC land use that the


      19        property that we're talking about is within, and


      20        would that have been why she might have received


      21        it and Mr. Shrowder and others may not have


      22        received it.


      23             MR. KELLY:  There were a total of 33


      24        notices that were sent out.  The addresses on


      25        the Lenox -- Lisa Pulley, Robert Parker, Will





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Pace, Lisa Baron Pulley on another parcel off of


       2        Lenox, Charles Swenson, Wade Mead.


       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Is Goldston (phonetic) on


       4        there, Doris Goldston?


       5             MR. KELLY:  Yes, she is.


       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  And, really, I just


       7        ask not for a complete list, but Mr. Shrowder is


       8        right along in there, kind of in the same area,


       9        and I guess he should have received word too,


      10        you know, when that was done.


      11             So I just wanted to try to clarify it a


      12        little bit, Mr. Chairman.  I don't know --


      13             Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Kelly.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      15             Councilwoman Lee.


      16             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, do we know the


      17        position of the district councilperson?


      18             I guess I would ask the gentleman that's


      19        representing Cox or somebody, does the district


      20        councilman, is he aware that there are some


      21        concerns from a neighbor and their concerns?


      22             Or has anybody talked to Mr. Davis on this


      23        issue or does he have a --


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I will ask Mr. Hudson to


      25        weigh in on that, if you would, please.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Mr. Hudson approaches the podium.)


       2             MR. HUDSON:  Thank you.


       3             I'm not sure if Councilman Davis is aware


       4        of any objections at all.  I know that I have


       5        personally met with Mr. Davis and he hadn't any


       6        objection.  He recognized what we were trying to


       7        do here.


       8             And, if I may, if I'm not out of turn --


       9        you-all tell me.  I'm not sure about the


      10        protocol, but I'd like to expound just a bit


      11        along what the resident there was talking about


      12        as far as traffic and stuff since he hasn't been


      13        a longtime resident of the area.  May I?


      14             MS. LEE:  Speak up, please.


      15             MR. HUDSON:  May I expound or sort of speak


      16        to what he was talking about?


      17             MS. LEE:  Yeah, go ahead.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


      19             MR. HUDSON:  The traffic, actually, that


      20        will be generated by the intended use, which --


      21        and also to clarify -- and I'm sorry if I'm not


      22        making it clear about carving off this piece,


      23        which is just the building, which is currently


      24        actually under lease to Mr. Thompson.  He simply


      25        approached Cox and said, "I'd like to buy it





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        instead of continuing to lease it."


       2             So that's that situation.  There isn't


       3        anything underhanded going on.


       4             MS. LEE:  Did someone suggest there was?


       5             MR. HUDSON:  No, ma'am, but I felt that


       6        there was some negative connotation to the way


       7        it was presented earlier as far as


       8        Mr. Thompson's relationship to Cox, and I just


       9        wanted to clarify that.


      10             But the traffic actually generated by --


      11             MS. LEE:  I hope I didn't give you that


      12        impression because that certainly wasn't my


      13        intent.


      14             MR. HUDSON:  No, ma'am.  I just wanted to


      15        clarify that and amplify.


      16             MS. LEE:  Okay.


      17             MR. HUDSON:  The traffic generated by


      18        Mr. Thompson's use will be far less than the


      19        traffic that had been generated when this was an


      20        active radio station building.


      21             My understanding is that before the radio


      22        stations relocated -- which it housed four or


      23        five -- there were a hundred-plus employees in


      24        that building.  I'm not sure how many


      25        Mr. Thompson has, but I'm quite certain it would





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        never approach that.


       2             And I actually had conversations with the


       3        Planning staff about amending this application


       4        to specifically address the issues that staff


       5        had, and I don't know if y'all want to speak to


       6        that with staff.


       7             And I'm also happy to answer any other


       8        questions.


       9             But back to your original question, I'm not


      10        sure if Councilman Davis is aware of any


      11        opposition from neighbors.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


      13             MR. HUDSON:  Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Appreciate it.


      15             I have no further questions for the


      16        speakers, so we'll close the public hearing.


      17             MR. SHROWDER:  May I say something else?


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  The public hearing is


      19        closed, unless somebody specifically asks you a


      20        question.


      21             MR. SHROWDER:  So my time is up?


      22             MS. LEE:  May I ask the gentleman a


      23        question?


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilwoman Lee, you have


      25        the floor.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  I'm just trying to help you out


       2        here.  It seems as though you wanted to say


       3        something, so I'm going to create a question.


       4             Do you know if Councilman Davis is opposed


       5        to this?


       6             MR. SHROWDER:  See, I was told that


       7        Mr. Warren Jones was my district councilor since


       8        I just moved back here, so I didn't really know


       9        who our councilor was right there.


      10             But since he was referring to traffic, you


      11        know, a couple years ago -- I didn't live there


      12        a couple years ago, and if I knew that much


      13        traffic would have been there a couple years


      14        ago, I wouldn't have bought that property


      15        neither.  It's a dead-end street.  You don't


      16        have no easement, you don't have no landscaping


      17        facilities five feet [sic].  So evidently it's


      18        going to just be let them go ahead and do what


      19        they want to do, right?


      20             MS. LEE:  Well, he cleared up something,


      21        that the gentleman who wants to purchase the


      22        property is currently already there.  Does that


      23        make a difference to you?


      24             MR. SHROWDER:  There's no traffic with


      25        anybody there.  All that is is an outpost for a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        radio tower.  That's all it is.  No traffic.


       2             MS. LEE:  And you feel this zoning change


       3        will create traffic?


       4             MR. SHROWDER:  That's a cut-through for


       5        295, for people to just -- it's off of Normandy,


       6        the cut-through off of 295 to get everywhere


       7        else.  So it's going to create a lot more


       8        traffic, yes.


       9             I mean, I don't know how many people


      10        he's -- he ain't told me how many people he's


      11        got working for him and how many people is going


      12        to be coming in and out of that road.


      13             MS. LEE:  Yeah, it would just seem to me


      14        that -- you know, I --


      15             Mr. Chairman, I'm going to -- you know, I


      16        tell you -- just a minute.


      17             This is -- even though you don't represent


      18        an area, you feel sometimes that, you know, you


      19        can understand.  And certainly I don't want to


      20        be opposed to a district councilperson relative


      21        to something to their district, but I do think


      22        inasmuch as this gentleman did not receive a


      23        notice, that's why I'm asking questions.


      24             And I don't know, Mr. Chairman, what could


      25        be done at least to help him resolve -- I think





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it's only fair.  He did call.  He tried to do


       2        things.  Maybe the Planning Department can help


       3        him out.


       4             You know, we're so quick to feel like if


       5        only one person comes forth and says something,


       6        then it's no big deal, whereas a lot of time


       7        other people might have been in the same


       8        position that he was in.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  If Mr. Thompson could come


      10        back up for a second, please.


      11             MR. THOMPSON:  (Complies.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  There seems to be some


      13        confusion about the current use of the


      14        building.  Do you currently have a lease on the


      15        building?


      16             MR. THOMPSON:  I currently have a lease on


      17        the building, but I'm not using it.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  That clarifies it.


      19        Thank you.  I appreciate it.


      20             Mr. Kelly, do you have some input for us?


      21             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chair.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let me go to Mr. Kelly first


      23        and then come back to you.


      24             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, I was going to go


      25        over the staff recommendation and report.  I





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        think there's been kind of some confusion.  This


       2        is really just a waiver of road frontage,


       3        request to reduce the required road frontage


       4        from thirty-five feet down to zero feet.


       5             Essentially the existing access easement,


       6        the property that they're accessing from Lenox


       7        Avenue, is already zoned CCG-1, as is this


       8        property CCG-1.


       9             They're attempting to come in now to


      10        reoccupy the vandalized building and redevelop


      11        the property back to its same original intensity


      12        or less, based on the conditions that we have


      13        for approval.


      14             We would -- again, we're supportive of the


      15        request and I can go into further details, but


      16        if you have any questions . . .


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilwoman Lee.


      18             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, I -- you know, I'm


      19        a little agitated now by the gentleman who


      20        represents Cox.


      21             Now, I was attempting to try and find a way


      22        to resolve and help this gentleman, the


      23        resident.  And when he came back up here, he was


      24        clear.  He then said that the gentleman was


      25        leasing the property with the insinuation that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it was already being used and he was already on


       2        the property.


       3             And now Mr. Thompson says, oh, no, he's not


       4        there.  He just -- he just leases.  But if this


       5        is approved -- that's misleading.  And then you


       6        wonder why I asked you the other question.  And


       7        then now you come back up to the mic and you say


       8        the same thing.  And you, again, misled.  You


       9        did not say that he wasn't -- you gave the


      10        impression he was physically in the building and


      11        he was using it.


      12             Mr. Thompson -- and I caught myself trying


      13        to resolve this so that I could probably vote in


      14        the affirmative.  But, you know, I just think


      15        people ought to be up front and not misleading


      16        and give all of the facts and people should not


      17        have to pull it out of them.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilwoman


      19        Lee.


      20             Mr. Kelly, could the lessee legally use


      21        this building without having -- could you get a


      22        CO without having this waiver or not?


      23             MR. KELLY:  No.  Because the use of the


      24        property as a radio station had ceased for more


      25        than a year, they basically lost their





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        grandfathered status, not having the legal


       2        access to the Lenox roadway.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.


       4             MR. KELLY:  So any reuse of this building


       5        would require it.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.  I guess that's my


       7        point.  If they started using it without the


       8        waiver, then they would be illegally using the


       9        property.  And that's why he probably isn't


      10        using it now -- I mean, part of the reason he's


      11        not using it now.  So I just wanted to clarify


      12        that.


      13             I guess my question is -- behind this radio


      14        station is a very large antenna field.  The


      15        action that we're being asked to take today, how


      16        does that -- let's say the antenna field goes


      17        away and all of a sudden it wants to be


      18        developed, how does that -- how does this all


      19        play into that?


      20             MR. KELLY:  Right.  That's why we've


      21        incorporated a couple of conditions that will


      22        protect that, any future expansion or


      23        subdivision of the property, at such time that


      24        easement would have to be brought up to City


      25        standards and be dedicated as an improved public





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        or an improved private roadway.


       2             Additionally, we've limited the property to


       3        the 12,000 square feet of professional business


       4        office use that previously existed on the


       5        property so that the CCG-1 uses, like retail and


       6        some other more intense uses that could go on


       7        CCG-1 zoning by right, will not be going onto


       8        this property.  It's strictly limited to


       9        professional and business office, same as the


      10        radio station offices.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  And that -- what you're


      12        speaking about is what's contemplated in the


      13        amendment that we're supposed to consider?


      14             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So I think for the


      16        committee, I think we'd be in the proper posture


      17        if we had a motion on the amendment.


      18             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no motion on the


      20        amendment, then the item --


      21             Councilmember Shad, do you have a comment


      22        or not?


      23             MR. SHAD:  (Inaudible.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, that's my question.


      25             Is there an amendment prior to the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendment to grant --


       2             MR. KELLY:  There is one amendment because


       3        I think the square footage of the original


       4        structure was 12,000 square feet, instead of


       5        10,000 square feet as indicated in the report.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.  So there's a


       7        clean-up amendment, and then there's an


       8        amendment to either grant or deny or do it all


       9        in one.


      10             MS. ELLER:  No.  The amendment would be


      11        to either grant or deny the waiver as


      12        conditioned --


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      14             MS. ELLER:  -- recommended by the Planning


      15        Department.  So it's either amend to grant the


      16        waiver and include these conditions in the


      17        ordinance or deny the waiver.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I understand what we


      19        need to do now.


      20             Do I have an amendment?


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing --


      23             MS. LEE:  May I ask a question,


      24        Mr. Chairman?


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  You can ask a clarification,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sure.


       2             MS. LEE:  Thank you, sir.


       3             I'm a little confused.  It says amend and


       4        move, grant waiver, or amend and move to deny


       5        waiver.  Is the denial there because someone


       6        recommended denial?


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  That's --


       8             MS. LEE:  But that's just staff --


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Standard procedure.


      10             MS. LEE:  That's what I thought.  Okay.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I have not heard


      12        anybody make an amendment, so we will defer this


      13        item.


      14             Sir -- Mr. Shrowder, I would encourage you


      15        to contact Councilmember Davis's office and talk


      16        to him -- and speak to him about this.


      17             Instead of closing the public hearing,


      18        which we did earlier, we will continue that


      19        public hearing with no further action.


      20             Okay.  Committee members, we're on item 35,


      21        2007-1309.  We will open that public hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll close the public


      23        hearing.


      24             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on


       2        -1309.


       3             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and


       4        record the vote.


       5             (Committee ballot opened.)


       6             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


       9             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      12             (Committee ballot closed.)


      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've just


      15        approved 2007-1309.


      16             Item 36, 2007-1310.  We'll open that public


      17        hearing.


      18             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      19        public hearing.


      20             Item 37, 2007-1311.  We'll open that public


      21        hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      23        public hearing.


      24             We are now on page 12, item 38, 2007-1312.


      25        We will open that public hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       2        public hearing.


       3             Item 39, 2007-1340.  We'll open that public


       4        hearing.


       5             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       6        public hearing.


       7             We already discussed item 40.


       8             We have -- item 41 is an appeal, but we


       9        have two other items that need action that we'll


      10        take up prior to the appeal.


      11             Item 42, on the top of page 13, is


      12        2008-20.  We'll open that public hearing.


      13             We have one speaker, Staci Rewis.


      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      17             Staci Rewis, 245 Riverside Avenue,


      18        Suite 400.


      19             I'm available for questions.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no questions


      21        for the speaker, we'll close that public


      22        hearing.


      23             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  We actually have an


      25        amendment that we need to move first.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  Move the amendment.


       2             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


       4        amendment.


       5             Could someone please explain the


       6        amendment?


       7             MS. ELLER:  Yes.  There are real estate


       8        numbers that are listed in the bill.  And the


       9        bill actually covers a portion of those real


      10        estate numbers, not the whole real estate


      11        number, so we want to be clear on that and clean


      12        that up.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  And just for the


      14        committee members, there's an amendment on this


      15        bill and bill number 43 that may or may not be


      16        on the agenda, depending on what time you got


      17        your agenda, so I apologize about that.


      18             Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the


      19        amendment signal by saying aye.


      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      24             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.


      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on


       2        2007-20 as amended.


       3             Councilwoman Lee, you have a question?


       4             MS. LEE:  No.  I was just going to point


       5        out that my roommate right here didn't have the


       6        amendment on his agenda.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  It was discussed at the


       8        agenda meeting earlier.


       9             Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.


      10             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


      11        record the vote.


      12             (Committee ballot opened.)


      13             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


      16             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      19             (Committee ballot closed.)


      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you just


      22        approved 2008-20.


      23             Item 43, 2008-21.  We'll open that public


      24        hearing.


      25             We have two speakers.  The first one is





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Staci Rewis, followed by Braxton Gillam.


       2             MS. REWIS:  Hi.  Staci Rewis, 245 Riverside


       3        Avenue, Suite 400.


       4             If I could reserve my time for rebuttal


       5        after the next speaker.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


       7             MS. REWIS:  Thanks.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Braxton Gillam.


       9             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  To the Chair, Braxton


      12        Gillam, 14 East Bay Street.


      13             I'm here for 2008-11.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I kind of thought so.


      15        Okay.  Thank you.


      16             Ms. Rewis, now that he's blown you out of


      17        the water, you have no further comments?


      18             MS. REWIS:  No.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We'll close that


      20        public hearing.


      21             We have an amendment.


      22             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the amendment.


      23             MS. JONES:  Second.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      25        amendment to 2008-21.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             All in favor of the amendment signal by


       2        saying aye.


       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.


       8             MR. WEBB:  Second.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on


      10        2008-21.


      11             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot,


      12        record the vote.


      13             (Committee ballot opened.)


      14             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea).


      17             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      20             (Committee ballot closed.)


      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've just


      23        approved 2008-21.


      24             Committee members, items 44, 45, and 46,


      25        which are 2008-22, -23, and -24, are all





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        deferred.


       2             On page 14, item 47 and 48, 2008-25 and


       3        -26, are both deferred.


       4             Item 49, 2008-27.  We'll open that public


       5        hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       7        public hearing with no further action.


       8             And the rest of the items are all going to


       9        be second and rereferred.  They are 2008-40,


      10        -41, -42, -43, -44, -45, -73.


      11             That concludes our regular part of our


      12        agenda.  Our court reporter has been eagerly


      13        typing for the last -- almost two hours, so we


      14        will -- before we start the appeal, we will take


      15        about a ten-minute break to let her rest her


      16        fingers and we'll come back and take care of the


      17        appeal.


      18             As I mentioned at the beginning of the


      19        meeting, we're going to give 20 minutes to each


      20        side for this appeal.  I have spoken to the


      21        appellant and they understand that.  The


      22        opposition, I mentioned earlier, will also have


      23        20 minutes.  And I would suggest that you might


      24        want to get together and organize your thoughts


      25        so that you can keep it within the 20 minutes





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        allotted.


       2             So we will be back right at 7 o'clock.


       3        Thank you.


       4             (Brief recess.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Let's call the


       6        meeting back to order.


       7             Thank you for your patience during that


       8        break.


       9             We only have one item remaining on our


      10        agenda.  It's 2008-11.  It's an appeal of a


      11        final order by the Planning Commission to deny a


      12        minor modification.


      13             As I stated at the agenda meeting and


      14        earlier tonight, we will allow 20 minutes for


      15        each side to present their arguments.  I believe


      16        Terry Moore will be handling the appellants, and


      17        is -- who's going to be handling the other --


      18        raise your hand if you're going to be kind of


      19        leading the -- or organizing the other side.


      20             Who's going to be organizing the


      21        opposition?


      22             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Holt Graves will be


      24        organizing -- I'll let you go first on the


      25        opposition side, if that's -- and then you can





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        tell me what order you're going in from there.


       2             Okay.  We are on 2008-11.  We will open the


       3        public hearing.  Our first speaker is --


       4             (Mr. Moore approaches the podium.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's do ex-parte


       6        communications before you go, Mr. Moore.


       7             Councilmember Yarborough.


       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       9             I briefly -- on 2008-11, yesterday, in my


      10        office, I met with Jack Diamond and Terry Moore


      11        to look at the site plan and also to discuss the


      12        effects on the neighboring properties.


      13             Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilwoman Lee.


      15             MS. LEE:  Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, I


      16        had an excuse that I was going to be late, but I


      17        moved it back so that I could be to the meeting,


      18        hoping we would be through by 6:30.  And I


      19        stayed kind of over my time and I was just --


      20        wanted for the record that I would love to stay,


      21        but I -- because of a personal engagement, I'm


      22        going to have to leave.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  We will miss you, but we


      24        understand.


      25             MS. LEE:  You're going to miss me?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  You would not believe how


       2        much I would miss you.


       3             Councilmember Webb.


       4             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


       5             I wanted to declare ex-parte on 2008-11, on


       6        February 1.  Mr. Moore and myself had a


       7        discussion of the appeal and reviewed the site


       8        plan as well.


       9             Thank you.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      11             Councilmember Shad.


      12             MR. SHAD:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      13             I met with Mr. Moore yesterday at 1:30 in


      14        my office to discuss the history of the project


      15        and the current plans.


      16             Thank you.


      17             (Ms. Lee exits the proceedings.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      19             I also will let you know that I spoke to


      20        Mr. Moore yesterday afternoon and -- mid


      21        afternoon in my office to discuss the appeal and


      22        the procedure that we were going to be


      23        following.


      24             I also had a brief discussion with Mr. Jack


      25        Diamond back on January 23rd, 2008, at the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Fox Restaurant and briefly overviewed the


       2        project.


       3             Also, I had a meeting last year at some


       4        point with the Planning Department and Mr. Moore


       5        and a representative from Mr. Diamond's firm and


       6        the representative from the development at the


       7        developer's office to discuss the -- get an


       8        update on the project.


       9             So having said all that, Mr. Moore, good


      10        evening and welcome.


      11             MR. MOORE:  Yes, sir.


      12             My name is Terry Moore.  My address is


      13        50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100.  I'm with the


      14        Gray Robinson law firm.


      15             And let me apologize to you, Ms. Jones.  My


      16        intention was to try to meet you today after the


      17        agenda meeting and speak with you, but, frankly,


      18        I'm sick, so I went back to my office and tried


      19        to recover.


      20             I'm here on behalf of MLG Ortega


      21        Condominiums, which is the owner of the property


      22        at the intersection of Herschel and Lakeside


      23        Drive, formerly known as Graham's Boatyard.


      24             The property has been the subject of much


      25        controversy when it was initially rezoned some





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        years ago.  And that was not by my client; it


       2        was by the predecessor owner, the Julian LeCraw


       3        Company.  And my clients bought it with the


       4        zoning in place.  It was PUD zoning, and the PUD


       5        zoning had a bubble plan showing -- excuse me --


       6        not a bubble plan, but a fairly specific site


       7        plan on how the property might be developed.


       8             Through a series of site plan


       9        verifications -- actually, three of them -- we


      10        came up with the present site plan.


      11             And I want to hand out some materials here


      12        to each of the City Council folks, as well as


      13        one for the record.  I'll be referring to this


      14        and I will be introducing it into the record as


      15        evidentiary material.


      16             (Tenders documents.)


      17             As background for the property, I would ask


      18        you to turn under tab 1, and tab 1 is a zoning


      19        map -- actually, a use map, showing how the


      20        property is zoned and how it's used in the


      21        area.


      22             The yellow piece of property there is the


      23        land encompassed inside the PUD, and across the


      24        street -- and I will say we've received -- at


      25        the Planning Commission, we received opposition





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        from some of the neighborhood.


       2             Across the street there are two purple


       3        properties.  Those are owned by the opposition,


       4        who will be here tonight, and the one next to


       5        it.  I don't know if that gentleman is in


       6        opposition or not, but I point this out to you


       7        because those are used for commercial use


       8        presently, for office and for a medical office.


       9             The next item I would point out to you is


      10        under tab 2, which is the present site plan, and


      11        let me explain very briefly what we're asking


      12        for.


      13             The site plan -- and you will see this when


      14        we get to the Planning Department report.


      15             The zoning, under the PUD, originally


      16        contemplated 75 condominium units.  The site


      17        plan you see there has 38 condominium units.


      18        This owner was -- had a verified site plan


      19        showing 70 units, and -- 75 units, and they were


      20        ready to go forward on construction.  And


      21        because of market conditions, they determined


      22        not to and to start over and to make this less


      23        dense and more of an upscale kind of


      24        development.


      25             The building colored yellow there was the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        subject of discussions.  When that site plan


       2        verification went through -- that's the meeting


       3        that Mr. Corrigan alluded to with the Planning


       4        Department -- we were requested -- my clients


       5        were requested, as developers, by the


       6        neighborhood to reduce the height of that


       7        building -- and this is the critical issue --


       8        from 55 feet to 45 feet in order to more fully


       9        protect the view of the folks in the


      10        neighborhood who felt they were impacted.


      11             We did that, the client did that, they


      12        reduced the building to 45 feet.  They had


      13        pulled building plans, and that building is


      14        under construction as we speak.


      15             The orange building will be built at


      16        55 feet as contemplated.  The PUD originally


      17        limited the height to 55 feet.


      18             The green building is the reason that I'm


      19        here, and that's really all I'm here for, is to


      20        ask the committee and the council to let us


      21        increase that building to 10 feet -- 10 feet


      22        higher, to 65 feet, as measured by the code, so


      23        that we can recoup the two units that we gave up


      24        for the benefit of the neighborhood.


      25             The next item I would point out is the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Planning Department report, and you can look at


       2        the top of page 2, under the general


       3        information, the second paragraph.  It


       4        substantiates what I've said in that we have --


       5        the applicant has reduced the density from


       6        35 feet to -- excuse me -- from 75 units down to


       7        38 units, and we want to take it back to 40.


       8             The comments of the Planning Department,


       9        I've underlined those in orange because I think


      10        the Planning Department report is competent


      11        substantial evidence, and we've introduced it in


      12        the record.  It is the City's authority and


      13        whether or not this project, as requested,


      14        complies with the requirements for a minor


      15        modification to the PUD.


      16             And you will see there, under item 1,


      17        there's no change in the land use; that under


      18        item 2, the driveways and streets are not


      19        affected, and that development -- the


      20        development has received verification and permit


      21        approval, and there's no change to the proposed


      22        roads or driveways; and under item 3, there's no


      23        change in any condition, and the proposed


      24        modification will actually -- and this, again,


      25        is critical -- will actually minimize the impact





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        on the adjacent residential uses to the east and


       2        blend in with the character of the surrounding


       3        area.


       4             I would point out, again, that the property


       5        across the street, the three most proximate


       6        properties, are in commercial use.


       7             Now, let me ask you just to look up for a


       8        minute and look to the back of this building.


       9        It's probably 150 to 170 feet to the back of


      10        this building from where you're sitting.


      11             If you look under tab 4, you will see a


      12        drawing we've asked the Rink Design group to


      13        prepare to show the actual distance from the


      14        impacted -- or from the building, where we're


      15        trying to get the additional ten feet -- that's


      16        the shaded building -- to the adjacent areas,


      17        and you can see the lines there that show


      18        300 feet, 400 feet, and 500 feet, just to put


      19        things in perspective.


      20             Also, that same drawing shows view


      21        corridors.  The area in yellow can be seen from


      22        the neighborhood.  I would submit anything --


      23        pardon me -- any residential area to the east of


      24        the marina clubhouse cannot see this building


      25        because of the clubhouse being in the way and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        because of the building under construction will


       2        be in the way.


       3             Obviously, the houses -- the residential --


       4        one house on the north side of Lakeside Drive


       5        can see this building, and I've marked on there


       6        where the residential use is and where the


       7        commercial use is.


       8             Now, what is it we want to do?


       9             If you look under tab 5, you will see a


      10        drawing of a five-story building, and that's


      11        there only to show, you know, specific design


      12        intent and what it would look like.


      13             Under drawing 6, you will see an elevation


      14        of what the building will look like.  Actually,


      15        it's building 5, like a stack of pancakes with


      16        another pancake stuck in the middle, to raise it


      17        up to six stories.


      18             Now, under tab 7, this building exists.


      19        This is -- if you flip back under tab 3, you


      20        will see the marina clubhouse.  I have inserted


      21        this in here -- this is not anything that's the


      22        subject of this appeal.  It's off site.  Because


      23        we're only trying to amend one building.


      24             But this shows you what this owner has


      25        done, what they've built and the quality of the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        construction and their commitment.  And if you


       2        were to go there and walk on the decks, you


       3        would see that they're made out of teak.


       4             Now, what was there before you'll find


       5        under tab 8 -- I'll ask you to look at that;


       6        that's the old boatyard -- tab 9 -- and these


       7        are actual photos -- and tab 10 is an aerial


       8        view.


       9             I would point out also that the marina --


      10        again, this is off site in the sense of it's not


      11        part of what we're asking for, but all of those


      12        docks were removed and they were rebuilt, and


      13        this owner is enforcing the submerged lands


      14        lease and -- which was not enforced strictly


      15        before.  There were people living on boats,


      16        flushing toilets, throwing garbage, whatever.


      17             The last thing I would ask you to look at


      18        is under tab 11, and that is a picture from the


      19        street.  It's from the corner of Herschel and


      20        Lakeside, looking to the west, and the building


      21        you see there is a 13-story building.  The next


      22        picture is a better picture of that building,


      23        closer to it, again, down on the curbside down


      24        closer to it.


      25             So we submit that what we're asking for is





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        consistent with the neighborhood.  You know,


       2        we're asking the City to recognize the


       3        accommodations we made and let us have those two


       4        units back.


       5             I'm going to ask Jack Diamond to speak very


       6        succinctly about his view of this project being


       7        compatible with the neighborhood.


       8             Any time we have left we'll reserve for


       9        rebuttal.


      10             Thank you.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


      14             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening,


      15        Mr. Chairman.


      16             My name is Jack Diamond.  I live at 11459


      17        Fort George Road, Jacksonville.


      18             Very pleased to be a part of this project.


      19        As Terry was saying, this developer is very much


      20        of a quality developer.  He has come to us, and


      21        originally he had the ability to go ahead and


      22        build a very large five-story building


      23        throughout the entire site.


      24             And in working with the Planning Department


      25        and the chairman -- we've talked to him in the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        past about it when they were asking us to reduce


       2        the density in the area as it relates -- excuse


       3        me -- the height of the building on the eastern


       4        side.


       5             What we ended up doing is taking that down


       6        to four stories, went to five stories with


       7        building number 3, and then building number 1,


       8        of course, we're asking it to go to six


       9        stories.


      10             As you saw under tab number 8 -- excuse


      11        me -- tab number 7, you start to see the quality


      12        of the development.


      13             I think what we tried to do in the


      14        development is tried to enhance the residential


      15        quality of this development, and you can see


      16        basically by that clubhouse structure that's


      17        very similar -- it's going to be the front door


      18        of each one of these buildings that we've got.


      19             So what we tried to do is respect the scale


      20        of the community.  And as far as the -- adding


      21        the two stories -- and it's only two units, by


      22        the way.


      23             As it relates to the top of the building to


      24        the -- to the west, we were simply trying to be


      25        respectful of it.  It's the farthest from the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        road.  It's also down about 8 or 9 -- 8 or


       2        10 feet lower than the other buildings because


       3        of its distance away from the road.


       4             So we were trying to be very respectful of


       5        the neighborhood, respectful of the views, and


       6        respectful of the opportunity to create a


       7        less-dense-looking overall development.  And at


       8        the same time, when you go from 75 units down to


       9        40 units, the amount of traffic and everything


      10        else in the neighborhood increased the quality


      11        of the development.


      12             So if you have any questions, be more than


      13        happy to answer them.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      15             MR. DIAMOND:  Thank you.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Diamond.  We


      17        may have questions later.


      18             I have it down as 12 minutes for the


      19        appellant.


      20             We are now ready for the opposition.  We


      21        will begin with Mr. Holt Graves.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  I believe you're going to


      24        speak first?


      25             And if that's -- if you want a different





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        order, just let me know.


       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's fine.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


       5             My name is Holt Graves.  I reside at 4437


       6        Herschel Street.


       7             I'm here representing my neighbors and the


       8        members of the Lakeside Park Preservation


       9        Association to speak against their proposed


      10        height increase.


      11             To appreciate why we're opposing the


      12        increase, you really have to go back to know the


      13        history of this whole project.


      14             When the Ortega River Boatyard was sold


      15        originally, there was months and months of


      16        discussions and meetings between the developers


      17        and all interested parties, of which there were


      18        many, including our City Councilperson.  There


      19        were many changes, there were many compromises


      20        that were made.  And at the end of the day,


      21        there was a PUD that was accepted by all the


      22        parties.  It was accepted by the developer, the


      23        homeowners, the boating community, the Planning


      24        Commission, and the City Council.


      25             That PUD specified the height of the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        buildings, the placement, and usage of the


       2        buildings, then things began to change.


       3             They referred to the four-story condominium


       4        building.  Actually, that replaced a two-story


       5        building that was strategically placed to act as


       6        a buffer on the eastern boundary of the


       7        property.


       8             The 55-story height limit has now become


       9        75 feet, plus or minus, and now there's a


      10        further proposal to increase the height of the


      11        buildings.


      12             Going back to the original 55-foot height


      13        limit, there was a lot of discussion and thought


      14        that was given to that.  Yes, we considered the


      15        neighboring office building.  We also considered


      16        the treetops -- the heights of the treetops, not


      17        to extend beyond that.  We considered the view


      18        of the homes neighboring their property, the


      19        view from the street.  We also considered the


      20        view from the homes across the river.  So a lot


      21        of thought went into that.


      22             The PUD states that the maximum height is


      23        55 feet, plus fires [sic], antennas, chimneys


      24        and appurtenances.  We've come to find out that


      25        appurtenances includes the entire roof





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        structure, mechanical rooms, access rooms,


       2        elevator shafts, et cetera.


       3             What we thought we were approving was a


       4        55-foot maximum height is really now a 75-foot


       5        maximum height, plus or minus.  Adding another


       6        floor means that the -- our original intent of


       7        the agreement is being far exceeded.  We're now


       8        approaching a building that's close to 100 feet


       9        in height.


      10             The Planning Commission has already


      11        declined this request.  On behalf of the


      12        homeowners, I request that you do the same.


      13             Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      15             Mr. Graves, who is going to speak next, do


      16        you know?


      17             MR. GRAVES:  I believe Mr. Olsen.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      19             MR. GRAVES:  I think the rest of the people


      20        in our neighborhood -- like Ms. Lee had other


      21        commitments, they had to leave, but they've


      22        deferred their comments to me.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  We'll go with


      24        Mr. Olsen next.


      25             (Audience member approaches the podium.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  You've got some handouts to


       2        pass out?


       3             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  It would be beneficial if


       6        you could get these and -- and, like our


       7        predecessor, I don't have tabs, but I do have


       8        appendices.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Give me your name and


      10        address for the record, please.


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.  My name is Erik


      12        Olsen.  My office address is 4438 Herschel


      13        Street.  I own both offices -- or two offices


      14        across the street from the proposed


      15        development.


      16             I did appear at the previous zoning meeting


      17        in opposition to the proposed extension.


      18             What I'm here to ask you again tonight is


      19        to deny this appeal, and also, more -- as


      20        importantly -- and I know that you don't have an


      21        enforcement, but to enforce the existing


      22        violations for the buildings that are being


      23        proposed now, that is to say the developer


      24        asserts that he can build five-story buildings


      25        in accordance with the design that's been





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        basically accepted by the Planning Department.


       2        I'm here to show you tonight, hopefully through


       3        these exhibits, that, in my opinion, that's not


       4        correct.


       5             I also point out that Mr. Moore indicated


       6        that this is a downzoning.  Yes, it is a


       7        downzoning, and certainly everybody embraces a


       8        downzoning, but I will also tell you that for


       9        the original project it had units as small as


      10        700 square feet.  This particular building has


      11        no units less than 2,500 square feet.  So when


      12        you're a developer and you're selling square


      13        footage, it's all sort of six or one, half a


      14        dozen of the other.


      15             I will also tell you that the original


      16        building, as proposed, which was a massive


      17        building and certainly was not a very attractive


      18        building, had the same -- exact same violations


      19        that I'm going to address here tonight.


      20             These violations all have to do with the


      21        height limitations.  And what you really need to


      22        do, as Mr. Graves indicated, is to understand


      23        how this PUD was negotiated and where it came


      24        from.


      25             Exhibit 1 is actually an excerpt from the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Planning Department's own records.  It indicates


       2        that the building -- the buildings, as


       3        negotiated with Julian LeCraw, who was the


       4        original applicant for this particular project,


       5        which was then flipped and purchased by MLG


       6        within 30 -- something like 60 days of the


       7        passing of the ordinance.


       8             There were a number of factors that were


       9        negotiated.  One was the height limitations.


      10        Those limitations were all keyed to the existing


      11        building which almost abuts this.  We -- I'm


      12        going to refer to it as the C.F. Knight building


      13        here tonight because it was that group that


      14        actually developed the building.  It's now owned


      15        by the Cathedral Foundation.


      16             That particular building was very


      17        controversial when it was proposed.  As a matter


      18        of fact, the City Council denied the original


      19        ordinance for that building.  It was negotiated,


      20        I believe, by Mr. Harden to be no more than


      21        basically 53 feet above existing grade.


      22             It was that building that was used in the


      23        negotiations with Julian LeCraw as the maximum


      24        absolute height that can be built on the -- on


      25        the old Graham property.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Now, interestingly enough, when that


       2        building -- C.F. Knight building was permitted,


       3        it -- the specifications for that height said no


       4        portion of the building -- that includes all


       5        mechanicals, your elevator shaft, the parapets


       6        that hide the mechanicals on the roof, nothing


       7        could exceed that elevation.


       8             And it was that specific litmus test and


       9        that hurdle that was passed down to this


      10        property, and what -- if you look at the


      11        exhibits that I have here tonight, there is a


      12        firm paper trail that represents that, both in


      13        verbal descriptions and actual graphics which


      14        were presented by Julian LeCraw in the


      15        negotiation with the City and with the


      16        neighborhood.


      17             For example, if you look at Exhibit B, this


      18        is an excerpt from Julian LeCraw's own design


      19        professionals that shows that they understood


      20        that the absolute elevation was keyed to the


      21        next building and it shows their buildings not


      22        to exceed that elevation.


      23             Now, these are the type of graphics that


      24        were given to the City, they were given to the


      25        neighborhood, and around which all the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        negotiations proceeded.


       2             I have also included just, again, as part


       3        of the institutional history, the actual


       4        ordinance that went with the C.F. Knight


       5        building, which was originally turned down and


       6        negotiated with the residential properties


       7        immediately abutting them to not exceed 53 feet


       8        above grade.


       9             Now, the appellant here very casually


      10        referred to the building further -- to


      11        Roosevelt, which, yes, is a relatively high


      12        building.  That building served no part of a


      13        basis of the negotiation of the PUD with Julian


      14        LeCraw.  It does exist, but the fact of life is


      15        that lower buildings, the C.F. Knight building,


      16        exists in between.


      17             And, again, it was the understanding of


      18        this neighborhood and all parties involved that


      19        all buildings to be built in accordance with


      20        this PUD would start at that elevation and would


      21        transcend down to the buildings that abut


      22        Mr. Graves' property.


      23             Again, Exhibit D is a picture of the


      24        C.F. Knight building.  And, again, if you look


      25        at this, you will see that there is nothing that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        exceeds 53 feet above grade, which at this


       2        elevation is about -- or this location, if you


       3        tie it to mean sea level, it's about 65 feet


       4        NGBD.


       5             And, again, the specifications for this


       6        were that it couldn't comply with the normal


       7        code variations that oftentimes are given to


       8        architects and developers where you're allowed


       9        to build mechanicals higher than the,


      10        quote/unquote, roof elevation, or you can have


      11        elevator shafts and the building around the


      12        elevator shafts exceed some type of


      13        specification.  That's not the case here.


      14        However, that is the issue that basically we're


      15        discussing here.


      16             If you go to the very last exhibit, which


      17        is the building being proposed, this particular


      18        exhibit is the six stories, not the five


      19        stories.  The letters in red indicate the


      20        elevations that -- that a five-story building


      21        would have.


      22             Basically, what you're talking about is the


      23        definition of this building, its height is


      24        defined as the ceiling of the upper floor.  The


      25        City staff -- the Planning staff has basically





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        said that anything you put above that does not


       2        count against the height limitation.


       3             And perhaps that does pass muster under


       4        certain circumstances with certain architects --


       5        although two architects I talked to said they


       6        could never, ever get that.


       7             But irrespective of that interpretation of


       8        the staff and the code officials, that is not


       9        what should apply here.  If it does, you have a


      10        building that exceeds the existing PUD standard


      11        by 20 feet irrespective of the chimney.  The


      12        chimney is a little bit higher, but no one is


      13        going to count a cupola or a chimney.


      14             The actual roof ridge elevation, as shown


      15        here, exceeds the existing PUD for the


      16        five-story building -- not the six-story


      17        building that's being requested -- exceeds the


      18        PUD standard by 20 feet.


      19             So what we're asking -- what I'm asking


      20        here tonight is, again, for the wisdom to deny


      21        this appeal, but also I'm seeking the


      22        enforcement -- the absolute enforcement of the


      23        PUD on all the remaining buildings because what


      24        is being proposed -- actually, the building


      25        that's coming out of the ground has the same





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        attributes.  It is going to exceed what was


       2        agreed upon in the PUD by approximately


       3        20 feet.  That's the 45-foot building.


       4             Well, basically, that, I believe, completes


       5        my remarks, and I'll be glad to answer any


       6        questions that you may have regarding them.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,


       8        Mr. Olsen.


       9             I have several other speakers.  I just need


      10        to know if they want to come forward and speak.


      11             Jay Abraham, Norman Abraham, Betsy Dunlap,


      12        Dennis Matthews, Braxton Gillam, and Betty Ann


      13        Graves.  Would any of those speakers wish to


      14        come forward and speak?


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  We're here in support.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  They all have indicated


      17        they're here in -- supporting the speaker who is


      18        against the appeal.


      19             Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Olsen.


      20             MR. OLSEN:  Thank you.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  I believe -- Mr. Moore, I


      22        believe you have about eight minutes of rebuttal


      23        time remaining.


      24             (Mr. Moore approaches the podium.)


      25             MR. MOORE:  I think the thrust of the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        objections that you've heard are not with us and


       2        they're not with this project.  They're with the


       3        City and how the City measures its height


       4        limitations.


       5             We didn't -- our view is -- and the


       6        Planning Department can certainly weigh in on


       7        this.  We didn't ask for anything on the


       8        interpretation of how height -- a height


       9        limitation is applied any differently than


      10        anyone else does.


      11             I live in the San Marco area.  I can invite


      12        you to go over on Sorrento Road and see a house


      13        over there that's at 35 feet.  That's the


      14        residential height limitations.  And you can


      15        look at what the actual resulting height of that


      16        house is.  It's -- far exceeds 35 feet because


      17        of the way the City code has exceptions.


      18             There's no specific exception here.  We're


      19        not asking for anything different -- or to be


      20        treated any differently.  The Planning


      21        Department has issued a building permit on the


      22        building to the east that I discussed with you


      23        before.


      24             Mr. Graves spoke specifically that we were


      25        going from 55 feet to 75 feet and he even





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        alluded to 100 feet.  We're not.  We're going to


       2        55 feet to 65 feet as determined by your


       3        Planning Department and the way it enforces its


       4        code.


       5             There was discussion about homes in the


       6        neighborhood.  There's Mr. Graves' home to the


       7        east of us.  And I showed you, I think under


       8        tab 6, the new building that actually protects


       9        his privacy.  That building was reoriented so


      10        that any amenities, pools, other things are --


      11        you know, are away from his house.


      12             So, yes, I mean, he is a house in the


      13        neighborhood and we have tried to be respectful


      14        of him.


      15             As I mentioned, as Mr. Olsen confirmed, at


      16        least his two buildings -- and the one next to


      17        him I mentioned is a physician's office across


      18        the street.  So on the north side of the


      19        property, the neighbors across the street are


      20        all in commercial uses, contributing, I would


      21        say, to traffic.  They have employees, they have


      22        businesses, they have clients, patients, people


      23        that come and go.


      24             We are actually reducing the burden.  I


      25        showed you the pictures.  You can see the cars,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        of what was at the property before.  And we have


       2        taken what we were permitted at 75 units and


       3        we've cut that back, with this appeal being


       4        successful, to 40 units.  So we believe that we


       5        are compatible with the neighborhood.


       6             I would also point out that, you know, much


       7        was made about the C.F. Knight building.  A lot


       8        of pieces and parts goes into the process of --


       9        the legislative process to come out with an


      10        ordinance.  Everybody knows that.  We, however,


      11        as a buyer -- and any other buyer like us --


      12        have to rely on what's in the public record and


      13        what's in the ordinance, and the ordinance says


      14        55 feet.


      15             You know, if people believed people who


      16        appeared when that ordinance went through, such


      17        as Mr. Olsen and I think Mr. Graves, if they had


      18        an objection about that ordinance or how 65 feet


      19        or 55 feet was going to be measured, they had


      20        ample opportunity to appeal that ordinance as


      21        affected parties, and no such appeals were


      22        done.


      23             It's interesting to me that after we gave


      24        up ten feet on the easterly building as an


      25        accommodation and after that building was under





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        construction, now there's vociferous objection


       2        to adding ten feet back on the building to the


       3        west, which is the building that's pointed out


       4        in the materials I presented.  That's at least


       5        300 feet away from the middle of Lakeside --


       6        Lake Shore Drive.


       7             And with respect to the comment about the


       8        materials we produced on the building to the far


       9        west, it is part of the neighborhood, but what


      10        we're talking about here is impacts,


      11        particularly visual impacts, I think --


      12             The only thing that's been talked about,


      13        when you think about it, is visual impacts.  The


      14        opponents have conceded, the Planning Department


      15        has noted that we've reduced the size of the


      16        building, we've reduced all the impacts that are


      17        associated with more units, more traffic.


      18             You know, people with a 700-square-foot


      19        unit are going to drive a car.  People with a


      20        2,200-square-foot unit are going to drive a


      21        car.  They're not going to drive, you know,


      22        necessarily more cars.


      23             So the building to the west is part of the


      24        neighborhood as evidenced by the fact as you can


      25        see it.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So I think we have presented materials that


       2        show where the view lines are and what the


       3        distances are to the street, and the impact of


       4        this request at 10 feet is a minimal impact in


       5        the neighborhood.


       6             And I think we've also -- I think your


       7        Planning Department has said that there's no


       8        special treatment here.


       9             So now that we've reduced the height on the


      10        easterly building and we've relied on the


      11        discussions and the negotiations with the City,


      12        I would ask the City to honor its commitment to


      13        us and to favorably consider the westerly


      14        building and let us add ten feet back to it.


      15        It's only two condominium units.


      16             Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.  I see no


      18        other --


      19             (Mr. Diamond approaches the podium.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Diamond, you've got --


      21        you've still got about two minutes left.


      22             MR. DIAMOND:  I would just like to make one


      23        statement.


      24             I've been an architect in Jacksonville for


      25        35 years.  The whole intent of zoning and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        building codes is to create a quality of life,


       2        and throughout the entire community -- and we're


       3        doing projects even in Jax Beach and everything


       4        else.


       5             The designation of the height of the


       6        building is consistent throughout the entire


       7        community, and to argue about whether or not


       8        the -- you know, the slope of the roof and those


       9        kind of things are in violation, that's not in


      10        violation with any codes or any zoning


      11        requirements, and that is throughout the entire


      12        community.


      13             And one of the reasons for -- many times --


      14        some of those units, is really to create quality


      15        or character-type elements.  Even if you go out


      16        to, let's say, Epping Forest and you see a


      17        little bell tower up there, they're creating a


      18        quality of life, and that's what it's kind of


      19        all about.


      20             And to object to things that are a few feet


      21        higher on a technicality I think is not talking


      22        about the intent of what the code is all about,


      23        and I think what we've tried to do is reduce the


      24        density, reduce the overall impact of the


      25        building.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And when people look at a building, they're


       2        looking at it from a 6 foot height limit.  And


       3        when you look up, the edge of the building is


       4        still going to be the edge of the building, no


       5        matter what's behind it as it relates to


       6        mechanical space or elevator space and those


       7        kind of things, and that's why the code was


       8        written the way it is.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you very much.


      10             (Mr. Gillam approaches the podium.)


      11             MR. GILLAM:  Surrebuttal of the comments --


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  No, they get the rebuttal.


      13        You don't get rebuttal.


      14             MR. GILLAM:  Surrebuttal.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excuse me?


      16             MR. GILLAM:  I ask for surrebuttal in light


      17        of the last comments of Mr. Diamond.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller, is he permitted


      19        to --


      20             MS. ELLER:  (Inaudible.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Repeat that, please.


      22             MS. ELLER:  If this gentleman offered new


      23        and additional information that wasn't offered