1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Thursday, January 3,


       7   2008, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.

                CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.

      14        RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.

                MIA JONES, Committee Member.

      15        E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.

                ART SHAD, Committee Member.

      16        JACK WEBB, Committee Member.



           ALSO PRESENT:


                BILL BISHOP, City Council Member

      19        RAY HOLT, City Council Member.

                BRAD THOBURN, Director, Planning Dept.

      20        JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

                SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.

      21        KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

                DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

      22        SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

                JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.

      23        MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.


      24                         -  -  -







           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   January 3, 2008                         5:05 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, everyone.


       5             We are about ready to start the Land Use


       6        and Zoning Committee meeting for Thursday,


       7        January 3rd, a rare Thursday night Land Use and


       8        Zoning Committee meeting.


       9             We do have a new procedure, a policy in


      10        effect based on some legislation passed by the


      11        council at the last meeting last year, which is


      12        in regards to lobbyist registration.


      13             If you are here tonight to speak on a bill


      14        and you have a financial gain in the bill,


      15        either paid directly by a corporation or entity


      16        or the lobby or will have a financial gain, you


      17        must fill out a lobbyist registration form prior


      18        to speaking.


      19             The forms are located right over here on


      20        that side.  So please make sure you come up and


      21        fill it out and turn it in to the basket so we


      22        can have it on the record prior to your speaking


      23        tonight.


      24             If you are writing it when I call your name


      25        and have not finished writing it, I understand





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that and will allow you to speak and then


       2        continue to write, but you must have it turned


       3        in or at least started prior to you speaking


       4        tonight.


       5             That will be a regular thing here at the


       6        City Council.  So if you can pass it on to your


       7        friends and neighbors and let them know if


       8        they're coming down here and they're to be


       9        compensated or have a financial gain, that they


      10        need to register with the City.


      11             We appreciate it.


      12             If you'd like to do it ahead of time, you


      13        can always contact Cheryl Brown, our council


      14        director, and she'll be happy to help you with


      15        that process.  We appreciate your cooperation.


      16             Okay.  We're ready to get started.  Let me


      17        let everybody know the committee members that


      18        are here tonight.  We have Councilmember Webb,


      19        Councilwoman Lee, Councilman Clark.  I'm


      20        Chairman Michael Corrigan.  We have


      21        Vice Chairman Clay Yarborough, and we have


      22        Councilmember Art Shad.  Councilwoman Mia Jones


      23        should be joining us shortly.


      24             We have a number of bills tonight to take


      25        up.  A number of you may be here for item number





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        54, located on page 16, which is the Craig Field


       2        extension.  I will tell you that that will be


       3        taken up towards the end of our action items on


       4        our agenda tonight and will be the last item we


       5        take up.  We do not anticipate a heavy burden


       6        before that, but we want to make sure that we


       7        allocate plenty of time for that issue to be


       8        heard, so it will be taken up at the end of our


       9        agenda.


      10             We do have a visiting councilmember, former


      11        councilmember, that's here with us tonight that


      12        I saw on the way in, Councilmember


      13        Warren Alvarez.  I believe Councilmember


      14        Warren Alvarez had an item.  Out of respect for


      15        him, in his adjustment to retirement, so he can


      16        feel like he's still involved in the council


      17        process, committee members, let's go to page 12


      18        and take up his item first.


      19             It's page 12, item 39, 2007-1193.  We will


      20        open that public hearing.


      21             Seeing no speaker cards on -1193, we will


      22        close that public hearing.


      23             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        on 2007-1193.


       2             Seeing no discussion on that bill, open the


       3        ballot and record the vote.


       4             (Committee ballot opened.)


       5             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      11             (Committee ballot closed.)


      12             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      14        approved 2007-1193.


      15             Councilman Alvarez, always a pleasure to


      16        see you.  Come back and see us often.  You can


      17        stay tonight if you'd like.


      18             MR. ALVAREZ:  My condolences.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  For those in the audience


      20        that don't know, Councilmember Alvarez was a


      21        standing councilmember on the LUZ Committee for


      22        a number of years.  It's great to see him back


      23        here tonight.


      24             Okay.  Let's go back to the front and go


      25        through a number of items that are going to be





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        deferred or rereferred.


       2             We'll begin with item number 1, 2005-718.


       3        We'll open that public hearing.


       4             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       5        public hearing with no further action.


       6             Items 2 and 3, 2005-1161 and 2005-1228, are


       7        both deferred.


       8             Top of page 3, item 2005-1399.  We'll open


       9        that public hearing.


      10             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      11        public hearing until January 15th with no


      12        further action.


      13             Item 5 and 6, 2006-24 and 2006-220, are


      14        both deferred.


      15             Bottom of page 3, 2006-360.  We'll open


      16        that public hearing.


      17             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      18        public hearing on May 6th, 2008.


      19             Top of page 4, 2006-520 is deferred.


      20             Item 9, 2006-658.  We'll open that public


      21        hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      23        public hearing until April 1st.


      24             Item 10, 2007-144.  We'll open that public


      25        hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       2        public hearing till -- continued till March


       3        4th.


       4             Item 11, 2007-145.  We'll open that public


       5        hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that one


       7        till March 4th.


       8             Top of page 5.  Item 12, 2007-384, is


       9        deferred.


      10             Item 13, 2007-566.  We'll open that public


      11        hearing.


      12             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      13        hearing.


      14             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion.


      16             Do I have a second on the bill?


      17             MR. WEBB:  Second.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on


      19        2007-566.


      20             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.).


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's number 13 on the


      22        agenda.


      23             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and


      24        record the vote.


      25             (Committee ballot opened.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       6             (Committee ballot closed.)


       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       9        just approved 2007-566.


      10             Item 14, 2007-578.  We'll open that public


      11        hearing.  We have no speakers, but we do have


      12        Margo Moehring from the Planning Department.


      13             This is a semiannual text amendment


      14        concerning coastal high hazard and hurricane


      15        evacuation.


      16             Is Ms. Moehring here or is she -- she's not


      17        in the room.  We're going to hold off on that


      18        one.  We'll get back to that one in a few


      19        minutes.


      20             Mr. Crofts, you can let me know when she


      21        gets here.  We'll go back to it.


      22             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Committee members, turn with


      24        me to the top of page 6.  2007-581 is deferred.


      25             (Ms. Jones enters the proceedings.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  2007-659.  We'll open that


       2        public hearing.


       3             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       4        public hearing.


       5             Item 17 and 18, 2007-803 and 2007-835, are


       6        both deferred.


       7             We are on the top of page 7, 2007-919.  We


       8        have -- we will -- this is an appeal.  We're


       9        going to follow the standard appeal process


      10        we've been using in this committee.  We


      11        typically allow ten minutes to each side, unless


      12        Councilmember Holt has additional information on


      13        that.


      14             Is that okay with you?


      15             MR. HOLT:  (Inaudible.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  If I can call on


      17        Councilmember Holt before I open the public


      18        hearing.


      19             Do you want to open the public hearing


      20        first or after?


      21             MR. HOLT:  Go ahead.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're going to open


      23        the public hearing.  I only have one speaker


      24        card, Charles Mann.


      25             Mr. Mann, come forward, please.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)


       2             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman and members of the


       3        committee, Charles Mann, 165 Arlington Road,


       4        representing the landowner.


       5             This item has been before you before.  It


       6        was a height appeal.  It was a height appeal to


       7        a denied minor modification.  It was passed by


       8        this committee to raise the height of the


       9        building on Heckscher Drive to 45 feet.  It was


      10        compromised at this meeting to 42 feet.


      11             Since then, in talking with the honorable


      12        Councilman Ray Holt, we have decided -- we've


      13        asked for it to be rereferred from council back


      14        to this committee so that we could adjust the


      15        height to 40 feet, which is agreeable to my


      16        client.


      17             Again, we would appreciate your support on


      18        this as we had before.


      19             Thank you very much.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      21             Councilmember Holt.


      22             I have no further speakers.  I'll close the


      23        public hearing and call on Councilmember Holt.


      24             You can stay seated.


      25             MR. HOLT:  I just wanted to say that I





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        agree with Mr. Mann.


       2             We had issues with this and we have worked


       3        through them, and I feel like this is probably


       4        the best compromise we can come to at 40 feet.


       5        So I'm not going to oppose this at this point,


       6        and I would appreciate if the committee would


       7        support it.


       8             Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So based on that,


      10        what I hear you saying is you would support an


      11        amendment to change the maximum height to


      12        40 feet and grant the appeal?


      13             MR. HOLT:  Forty feet (inaudible).


      14             MR. MANN:  Yes, sir, that's correct.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do I have a motion?


      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move it.


      17             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      19        on the amendment.  All in favor of the amendment


      20        signify by saying aye.


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      23             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill as amended.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. JONES:  Second.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on


       3        2007-919 as amended.


       4             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


       5        record the vote.


       6             (Committee ballot opened.)


       7             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      13             (Committee ballot closed.)


      14             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      16        approved 2007-919.


      17             MR. MANN:  Thank you.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Mann.


      19             Councilman Holt, we appreciate you working


      20        that out.  It was a good job.  Thank you.


      21             Okay.  Item number 20, 2007-928, is


      22        deferred.  2007-984 is deferred.  2007-1011 is


      23        deferred.


      24             We're now on the top of page 8.  2007-1046


      25        is deferred.  2007-1047 is deferred.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             2007-1048.  We'll open that public


       2        hearing.


       3             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       4        public hearing with no further action.


       5             Top of page 9, 2007-1051 is deferred.


       6             2007-1061.  We'll open that public


       7        hearing.


       8             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


       9        hearing with no further action.


      10             Item 28, 2007-1077.  We'll open that public


      11        hearing.


      12             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      13        public hearing with no further action.


      14             Committee members, top of page 10,


      15        2007-1078 is an accompanying bill to the


      16        previous one.  We'll open that public hearing.


      17             Seeing no further speakers, we'll continue


      18        the public hearing with no further action.


      19             Item 30, 2007-1083, is deferred.


      20             Item 31, 2007-1085.  We'll open that public


      21        hearing.


      22             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      23        public hearing with no further action.


      24             We're on the bottom of page 10, item 32,


      25        2007-1086.  Open that public hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       2        public hearing.


       3             Top of page 11, 2007-1121.  We'll open that


       4        public hearing.


       5             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


       6        public hearing.


       7             Item 34, 2007-1125.  Open that public


       8        hearing.


       9             Seeing no one wishing to speak, we will


      10        continue that public hearing with no further


      11        action.


      12             Item 35, 2007-1126, is deferred.


      13             Item 36, 2007-1190.  We'll open that public


      14        hearing.


      15             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      16        hearing.


      17             We have an amendment.


      18             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      21        amendment.


      22             Mr. Crofts, explain the amendment, please.


      23             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman and members of


      24        the committee, the amendment consists of five


      25        conditions and they are as follows:





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Number 1, "The developer shall be subject


       2        to the original written description dated


       3        October 12th, 2007."


       4             Number 2, "The developer shall be subject


       5        to the original site plan dated January 10th,


       6        2005."


       7             Number 3, "The developer shall be subject


       8        to the original legal description dated October


       9        22nd, 2007."


      10             Number 4, "Monument signs shall be at least


      11        100 feet apart.  Additional wall signs shall


      12        comply with section 656.1303, subparagraph C,


      13        sub-subparagraph 1 and 2 of the zoning code."


      14             Number 5, "The developer shall be subject


      15        to the Development Services memorandum dated


      16        October 31st, 2007, the Transportation Planning


      17        Division memorandum dated November 14th, 2007,


      18        and the Florida Department of Transportation


      19        letter dated March 11th, 2007, or as otherwise


      20        approved by the Planning and Development


      21        Department."


      22             Thank you, sir.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      24             Any questions on that report?


      25             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing no discussion on the


       2        amendment, all in favor of the amendment signify


       3        by saying aye.


       4             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


       8             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill as amended.


       9             MS. LEE:  Second.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      11        on 2007-1190 as amended.


      12             Councilmember Webb.


      13             MR. WEBB:  I just need to disclose ex-parte


      14        communication on December 5th at 1 p.m.  I had


      15        an approximately 30-minute meeting with


      16        Susan Green, who's an agent for the developer.


      17             Thank you.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      19             Any questions for Councilmember Webb?


      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none and seeing no


      22        other discussion on the bill, open the ballot


      23        and record the vote.


      24             (Committee ballot opened.)


      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       6             (Committee ballot closed.)


       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       9        approved 2007-1190.


      10             Committee members and members of the


      11        audience, turn to the top of page 12,


      12        2007-1191.  We'll open that public hearing.


      13             We have -- seeing no speakers, we will


      14        continue that public hearing with no further


      15        action.


      16             Item 38, 2007-1192.  We'll open that public


      17        hearing.  We have two speakers.  We have


      18        Ms. Penny Thompson and Mr. Mack McCuller.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon,


      21        Mr. Chairman.


      22             Mack McCuller, 225 Water Street,


      23        representing Shands Jacksonville Foundation.


      24             Penny Thompson is here.  You can ask any


      25        questions of her if you'd like, but we're here





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to answer any questions.


       2             I would say this is a conventional rezoning


       3        of three residential lots in the Springfield


       4        area to accommodate a medical clinic, hospital


       5        use, and is on a PBF underlying land use.  All


       6        surrounding it is PBF zoning.  So it's a fairly


       7        straightforward application.


       8             I'll be here to answer any questions.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      10             Ms. Thompson, do you want to speak or just


      11        questions only?


      12             MS. THOMPSON:  No.  I would just add that


      13        if there are any questions, I'd be happy to


      14        answer them.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Give me your address for the


      16        record, please.


      17             MS. THOMPSON:  Penny Thompson, vice


      18        president of public affairs, Shands


      19        Jacksonville.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      21             Councilwoman Jones.


      22             MS. JONES:  I'd just like to declare


      23        ex-parte communications with Ms. Thompson this


      24        afternoon immediately following the LUZ agenda


      25        meeting.  I don't remember what time it was, but





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it was in the conference room.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Councilmember


       3        Yarborough.


       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       5             Also ex-parte with Ms. Thompson this


       6        afternoon in my office at 4:30 to discuss the


       7        classification of the rezoning.


       8             Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      10             Councilmember Webb.


      11             MR. WEBB:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      12             As well, I'd like to disclose ex-parte


      13        communication with Ms. Thompson at approximately


      14        4 o'clock this afternoon in my office.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      16             Councilmember Clark.


      17             MR. CLARK:  Yes.  I'd also like to say that


      18        I had a conversation with Ms. Thompson this


      19        afternoon in my office.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.


      21             That is all the ex-parte I see.


      22             Oh, I'm sorry.  Councilmember Lee.


      23             MS. LEE:  I received a call as well.  I


      24        have a question, though, of the gentleman.


      25             What is your name again, sir?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. McCULLER:  Mack McCuller.


       2             MS. LEE:  Mr. McCuller stated that


       3        everything around there was PBF.  I was just


       4        interested in -- when did all of that change?  I


       5        know some of the homes were sold, like


       6        Mrs. Davis and those homes were sold a while


       7        back.


       8             MR. McCULLER:  There may be some


       9        grandfathered uses.  If you look at the zoning


      10        map and the staff report, you'll see there's a


      11        corner that goes off into RMD-D zoning.  The


      12        rest of the zoning around it is PBF-2 or -1.


      13             MS. LEE:  So everything in that particular


      14        block has moved from residential, any type of


      15        residential?


      16             MR. McCULLER:  I wouldn't say the entire


      17        block.  To the west, there's an RMD-E and RMD-B


      18        along Louisiana Street.


      19             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.


      21             I don't see any other speakers.  So seeing


      22        none, does the Planning Department have anything


      23        for us?


      24             MR. CROFTS:  (Shakes head.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Open the ballot and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        record the vote.


       2             (Committee ballot opened.)


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       8             (Committee ballot closed.)


       9             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      11        approved 2007-1192.


      12             Thank you all.


      13             We already did item 39.


      14             We are now on item 40, 2007-1194.  Open


      15        that public hearing.


      16             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


      17        hearing.


      18             I will entertain a motion.  I will note


      19        that the Planning Department has issued a report


      20        of denial on this, just for your information.


      21             Do I have motion -- an amendment?


      22             (Inaudible discussion.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly or Mr. Crofts,


      24        could you give us the reason for the denial?


      25             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Through the Chair to the committee, this is


       2        a waiver of road frontage request to reduce the


       3        amount of required road frontage from


       4        eighty feet to zero feet.


       5             Staff is of the opinion that this is not in


       6        the public interest and essentially represents


       7        circumventing the subdivision regulations and


       8        would be detrimental to the public health and


       9        safety and make it difficult for addressing and


      10        911 to locate the property.


      11             The subject property was originally split


      12        off of another piece of property in 1997, and so


      13        we feel that it's really a self-imposed hardship


      14        that the applicant created himself.  And they


      15        had the ability and constructive knowledge of


      16        the code at the time and the laws were the same,


      17        so we feel that this is inappropriate and would


      18        circumvent the intent of the code.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilwoman Jones -- it's


      20        in Councilwoman Lee's district.  She can go


      21        first.


      22             Councilwoman Lee.


      23             MS. LEE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             I haven't talked to anybody about this.  No


      25        one has talked to me.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Would you like us to defer


       2        it a cycle so you can talk to somebody?


       3             MS. LEE:  Is the applicant present?


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is the applicant on


       5        2007-1194 in the audience?


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  I do not see anybody waving


       8        their hand.


       9             MS. LEE:  Well, I guess my question is,


      10        Mr. Chairman -- there are two recommendations


      11        here.  Am I in sync with that?  Amend and move


      12        to grant the waiver, then there's one to deny


      13        the waiver.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.  We have to do one or


      15        the other.  As a committee, we have to do one or


      16        the other.


      17             MS. LEE:  Okay.  So I guess, if I could --


      18        I'm not familiar with this portion of the


      19        process right here -- why is the move to grant


      20        if the Planning Department recommends it?


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  They give us the option as a


      22        committee to make the amendment either way we


      23        want to make it.


      24             MS. LEE:  This just pertains to the


      25        amendment only?





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.  What the amendment


       2        does is actually recommends denial or recommends


       3        approval is what the amendment is.


       4             MS. LEE:  Right.


       5             Mr. Chairman, I would -- I mean, if the


       6        Planning Department has moved to -- has made a


       7        motion -- or recommendation, rather, to deny, I


       8        would like an opportunity to maybe just converse


       9        with them a little more in detail rather than to


      10        pose a lot of questions at this time.  Inasmuch


      11        as the applicant isn't present, I would ask that


      12        you defer it, please.  Then maybe somebody will


      13        get in touch with me.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm happy to do that.


      15             Let me go back and continue the public


      16        hearing instead of closing the public hearing,


      17        and we'll just continue it.  So that way if you


      18        get a chance to speak with the Planning


      19        Department or the applicant, we can bring it up


      20        next cycle without readvertising it.  Is that


      21        okay?


      22             MS. LEE:  Okay.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Good.


      24             So on 2007-1194, we will open and continue


      25        that public hearing with no further action





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        today.


       2             Councilwoman Jones.


       3             MS. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       4             Just two quick questions.


       5             One, the applicant was notified that the


       6        recommendation was for denial?  If they don't


       7        come to the meeting, we make a decision and --


       8             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.  The reports


       9        are sent out to the applicant prior to the


      10        meeting.


      11             MS. JONES:  Okay.  Did anybody verify that


      12        it's the same owner that -- you said that


      13        construction had taken place on it at one point


      14        and that it was subdivided or something to that


      15        effect.  Is it the same owner or is it a


      16        generation removed or a new owner?


      17             MR. KELLY:  My understanding, through the


      18        Chair to Councilmember Jones, is that the 5-acre


      19        parcel that's being split off now was owned at


      20        one time by the larger tract of land, but now


      21        it's under separate ownership.


      22             MS. JONES:  Okay.  Thank you very much.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      24             Councilwoman Lee.


      25             MS. LEE:  I'd like to ask a question of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Mr. Crofts -- or Mr. Kelly.


       2             Once the person is notified, is it common


       3        practice for them to call back and ask why or


       4        did we get a response back from the applicant?


       5             MR. KELLY:  In this instance, we did not


       6        hear back from the applicant after we had faxed


       7        the reports.  There may have been a conflict


       8        with the holidays.  And so we would, again, you


       9        know, go along with your wishes to continue the


      10        meeting, and we'll contact the applicant


      11        directly to make sure that they are aware of the


      12        recommendation.


      13             MS. LEE:  Now, you said you faxed it or you


      14        mailed it?


      15             MR. KELLY:  Typically, we fax it.


      16             MS. LEE:  To the applicant?


      17             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      18             MS. LEE:  You're, then, aware that that


      19        person has a fax machine?


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I can clarify a little bit.


      21             I've learned from Legislative Services that


      22        several days ago the payment for the


      23        advertisement had not been received.  And they


      24        contacted her and the advertisement was paid,


      25        and they were told that it was going to be





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        brought up tonight.  By paying the


       2        advertisement, it could be brought up tonight.


       3             MS. LEE:  I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.


       4             I guess my inquiry is, you know, even if a


       5        person has a fax machine, are we aware that


       6        they're going to pick it up or -- when things go


       7        out certified, then we're assured someone has


       8        received it.  In a case when you're denying


       9        anybody, is that a requirement?  I'm just making


      10        an inquiry.  Is that how you normally do it?


      11             MR. KELLY:  No.  It's typically done as a


      12        courtesy to the applicant.  Really the burden


      13        would be on them to contact us.  But we do fax


      14        basically all of the reports out to the agents


      15        and the applicants prior to -- about a week


      16        prior to the meeting.


      17             MS. LEE:  What happens when a person


      18        doesn't have a fax machine?


      19             MR. KELLY:  We can either e-mail it


      20        directly to them -- they have that option if


      21        they filled out an e-mail address as opposed to


      22        a fax machine.


      23             MS. LEE:  And if one doesn't have a


      24        computer, then you mail it?


      25             MR. KELLY:  We would call them directly





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        basically and ask what their preference is, if


       2        they'd like to come in and pick it up or we


       3        could mail it to them.


       4             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, I was listening to


       5        the question that was asked, and that's why


       6        maybe in the future we might want to just look


       7        at making sure -- Ms. Jones asked the question,


       8        did the applicant -- was the applicant


       9        notified.  And if there's no sure way to know


      10        that they received it, maybe this might be


      11        something we could look at in the future.


      12             Because we could all be applicants and, you


      13        know, not knowing -- even though I guess I would


      14        be responsible in making sure my stuff got


      15        approved or disapproved, in the real scheme of


      16        things that doesn't always happen.  Everybody


      17        doesn't have a computer and everybody doesn't


      18        have a fax machine.  Certification of letters


      19        usually works.


      20             That's all.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're happy to look


      22        at that and make sure -- and when this comes up


      23        in two weeks and the applicant is there, I'd be


      24        curious to see what they received and how they


      25        received it or whatever.  I'm fine with that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        But for tonight, we'll just open and continue


       2        2007-1194.


       3             Committee members, we're on top page of 13,


       4        2007-1195.  We'll open that public hearing.


       5             Seeing no speakers, we will close that


       6        public hearing.  I need a motion to either grant


       7        or deny the waiver.


       8             MS. JONES:  Move to grant.


       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second to grant


      11        the waiver.  All in favor of the amendment


      12        signify by saying aye.


      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Amendment carries.


      17             MS. JONES:  Move the bill as amended.


      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on


      20        2007-1195, which will grant the waiver.


      21             Seeing no discussion on the bill, open the


      22        ballot and record the vote.


      23             (Committee ballot opened.)


      24             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      25             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       6             (Committee ballot closed.)


       7             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       9        approved 2007-1195.


      10             2007-1196.  We'll open that public


      11        hearing.


      12             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      13        public hearing with no further action.


      14             2007-1215.  We'll open that public


      15        hearing.  We have one speaker, T.R. Hainline.


      16             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


      17             MR. HARDEN:  Mr. Chairman, I'm putting in a


      18        card for this too.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Harden.


      20             Mr. Hainline, how are you?


      21             MR. HAINLINE:  I'm fine, Mr. Chairman.


      22             My name is T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace


      23        Boulevard.


      24             This is a development agreement which seeks


      25        an extension of the reservation time for





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        available concurrency capacity.  You-all have


       2        granted many of these over the years.  This


       3        applicant obtained available concurrency


       4        capacity for a retail portion of his overall


       5        development.  That retail portion won't come


       6        until the end of the development, so he needs an


       7        extension, an extended reservation of the


       8        capacity, which is routinely done through a


       9        development agreement.


      10             Mr. Harden asked some questions.  We've


      11        been talking all afternoon.  I'm not sure


      12        whether it's questions so much about our


      13        development agreement as it is about what the


      14        City is doing with a fair share contract which a


      15        client of his is seeking down the street, but I


      16        guess what I'll do is just reserve time for


      17        rebuttal for what Mr. Harden might say.


      18             This development agreement, we worked with


      19        your staff and with your lawyers in seeking and


      20        applying for this.  The staff is recommending


      21        approval.  Certainly if there are any questions


      22        about the application or the procedures, your


      23        lawyers and your staff are well-versed on that,


      24        and I would urge you to consult with them.


      25             I'd like to save the rest, I guess, for





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        rebuttal, depending upon what issues Mr. Harden


       2        raises.


       3             Thank you.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       5             Paul Harden.


       6             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


       7             MR. HARDEN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       8             Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.


       9             Mr. Hainline's description of where we are


      10        in the process is -- doesn't complete the story,


      11        if you will, as Paul Harvey might say.


      12             The exact same CCAS and a development


      13        agreement based on it was heard by this council


      14        a year ago -- almost a year ago.  The exact same


      15        CCAS was rejected seven to nothing by the LUZ


      16        Committee.  Councilman Shad, Ms. Jones,


      17        Mr. Clark were all on the LUZ.  It was


      18        unanimously denied by the Land Use and Zoning


      19        Committee.  It then went to the full council,


      20        and the full council, by unanimous vote,


      21        rejected it.  This is an attempt to basically


      22        start over.


      23             My client is next in line for the trips.


      24        Obviously, we have an interest in what happens


      25        on the thing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             But those of you who are on the committee


       2        will recall that there were really two issues


       3        last time considered.  One is the length of time


       4        that the reservation had been held, saying we're


       5        getting ready to come do something.  There were


       6        extensions granted for about two years.


       7             Finally, they came in at our insistence.


       8        But then the key issue, though, was how the


       9        client got to where they were with their


      10        zoning.


      11             One of the issues you're required to


      12        consider by law is whether or not the zoning


      13        complies with the comp plan.  We believe it does


      14        not comply with the comp plan.  It's an AGR


      15        zoning for a large number of single-family


      16        trips, a shopping center, additional office


      17        uses, and it's in the form of a rural village.


      18             A rural village has specific requirements.


      19        It doesn't meet the requirements.  One of them


      20        is it has to be 500 acres.  This is 380 acres.


      21        Secondly, it has to be on a collector road.


      22        It's not on a collector road.


      23             There were a series of issues related to


      24        whether or not it met the comp plan.  Based on


      25        that explanation and based on the law, this





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        committee, in its own formation, unanimously


       2        rejected the CCAS.


       3             We think that the trips should have then


       4        gone back in and my client should have been able


       5        to take advantage of it and move forward.


       6             What's basically happened is they brought


       7        the issue to council, the council denied it, and


       8        this is starting over again.  We don't think


       9        that's the way the process should go forward.


      10             We think that this committee should uphold


      11        the ruling of the LUZ Committee when you


      12        considered it before.  And, respectfully, we


      13        request that you reject this request for a


      14        development agreement.


      15             It is a privilege, not a right, and there


      16        are requirements in order to meet that


      17        development agreement.  The LUZ Committee before


      18        felt like they didn't meet those requirements,


      19        and they still don't today.


      20             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      22             Mr. Hainline, I believe you have about a


      23        minute and a half of rebuttal.


      24             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


      25             MR. HAINLINE:  Okay.  I do have a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        chronology that I would like to pass around.


       2             The first thing I would like to say is if


       3        anyone has any questions about the procedures we


       4        followed or any concerns that you don't think


       5        can be heard tonight, we would ask that this


       6        matter be deferred to the next LUZ meeting.


       7        There's some things that Mr. Harden said that I


       8        would like to address, however.


       9             What is before you tonight is very, very


      10        different than what was before this council a


      11        year ago.  It's radically scaled back.  A year


      12        ago we had 749 --


      13             Do you need a copy?


      14             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.


      15             MR. HAINLINE:  Here.


      16             (Tenders document.)


      17             MR. HARDEN: Thank you.


      18             MR. HAINLINE:  A year ago, we had 749


      19        residential units in it, in addition to what we


      20        have now.  We had another 5,000 square feet of


      21        retail, which is not in it now.  We radically


      22        scaled it back to be only 40,000 square feet of


      23        retail, which is what the original council, many


      24        years ago, when this PUD was approved, really


      25        wanted in there and actually added in there.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             This 40,000 square feet was deemed as


       2        important by the original -- by the approvers of


       3        the original PUD for this, and that's what we're


       4        seeking the extended capacity on here today.


       5             If you have any questions about procedures


       6        or what was followed in transitioning from the


       7        denial last May to where we are now, you should


       8        seek -- you should talk to your lawyers and your


       9        staff as to whether all portions were followed


      10        because they were, and they will confirm that.


      11             Secondly, Mr. Harden's fair share contract


      12        down the street is not next in line behind us.


      13        It won't benefit from this because Mr. Harden's


      14        fair share, which is behind us in line, has


      15        locked in its dollar amount.  Its dollar amount


      16        is 684,000.


      17             When Mr. Harden paid the $500 for that fair


      18        share, under your code, Section 355.305(a), once


      19        he pays the $500, he locks into that amount no


      20        matter what facts change after that.  In fact,


      21        when they paid their $500, they specifically


      22        said in the letter, "We wish to lock in this


      23        amount."  So he will not benefit from any denial


      24        of this development agreement.


      25             Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       2             Councilmember Yarborough.


       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       4        Just a few quick questions.


       5             Mr. Harden mentioned that, I believe, you


       6        and Mr. Clark, Ms. Jones, and Mr. Shad were


       7        involved last year when something related to


       8        this --


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Not me.  I was on the


      10        council, but I wasn't on LUZ.


      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  My first question is --


      12        this is all new to me still -- can anybody weigh


      13        in on that?


      14             I'd be curious as to what some of the


      15        senior members might have to offer on it.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  I've got Councilman Shad and


      17        then Councilmember Clark.


      18             MR. SHAD:  Thank you.


      19             My recollection was -- going back, the


      20        original rezoning was much discussed, and it was


      21        a close vote on the original rezoning.  When it


      22        came back in front of us, you know, personally,


      23        I still had a little problem with the original


      24        rezoning.


      25             And because of my issues with not meeting





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the definition of a town center on the original


       2        rezoning, although I did vote for it, after


       3        having more experience in the council, I saw


       4        this as an opportunity to right a wrong and to


       5        at least not give them these trips and maybe


       6        lower the intensity of that zoning that I


       7        thought probably shouldn't have got passed on in


       8        the first place.


       9             Can I stay in the queue?


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


      11             Councilman Clark, do you want to respond?


      12             MR. CLARK:  Not having been on the


      13        original -- in the original -- I was there in


      14        the original vote but not the original zoning.


      15             My issue is one that's long-standing, and


      16        we still go through it today and I still take


      17        issue with it.


      18             I have a hard time with developers coming


      19        in and continually holding on to trips for years


      20        at a time.  And in the system that we play by,


      21        once you get those, that's it.  So everybody


      22        behind you is playing by the rules, paying the


      23        money, and you're just hanging on.  It doesn't


      24        seem to be a fair way to play.


      25             So I looked at it from an entirely





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        different standpoint.  For me it was, you know,


       2        you've had this a number of years and you just


       3        want to continue to hang on to the trips and


       4        continue -- and so I came at it from a different


       5        angle.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilman Yarborough, you


       7        still have the floor.


       8             Were you here previously?  I'm sorry.


       9             MS. JONES:  I was here for that.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  Go ahead.


      11             MS. JONES:  I think that was the night we


      12        didn't approve a number of development


      13        agreements that were coming back for extensions


      14        or renewals to extend four or five or ten years


      15        where they had already had that five or ten


      16        years, whatever the number of years was.


      17             I think a lot of the discussion really went


      18        to what Councilman Clark just spoke to, in that


      19        you've had the trips reserved, you've been there


      20        for however long, and now you're coming back and


      21        saying, oh, well, we need some more time, and


      22        nothing had happened.


      23             I believe all of the ones that we denied,


      24        no activity had happened, no development


      25        whatsoever had taken place on those tracts of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        land, and we were still continuing to approve


       2        and have, I guess, in the past done that


       3        consistently.


       4             But I think that night we just kind of took


       5        a stand that, you know, it's time for us to --


       6        if you're going to come and reserve the trips


       7        and you're given a time frame to do the


       8        development, then something needs to happen.


       9        And that had not happened on this one.


      10             So that's my recollection of what took


      11        place during that time frame.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      13             Councilmember Yarborough.


      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      15             I appreciate that from the senior members.


      16        That helps.


      17             The other question -- and I'd rather not do


      18        hearsay, but I notice it's in Mr. Holt's


      19        district.  I don't know if maybe Mr. Harden or


      20        Mr. Hainline had spoken with the councilman for


      21        District 11 and if he had weighed in at all.


      22             Mr. Harden, did you --


      23             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  I mean, I'd rather not ask


      25        to defer on it.  I just want to make the best





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        decision on it.


       2             MR. HARDEN:  I understand.


       3             My discussion with him was peripheral to


       4        this because if you'll see in T.R.'s letter here


       5        to you, he's arguing we're locked into 684-.  If


       6        that were the case, my beef would be different.


       7        The City's now saying, no, you're not locked


       8        in.  We want to charge you $984,000.  So they


       9        aren't locking us in.


      10             T.R.'s explanation is -- and I agree with


      11        his legal position.  And if the City were to


      12        say, okay, you, in fact, are locked in at 684-,


      13        then, you know, peace be with you, and T.R. and


      14        I will go our ways.  But the General Counsel's


      15        Office is saying, no, we have an error, and


      16        we're going to charge you $984,000.


      17             So I'm kind of -- you're getting one


      18        argument from T.R., but that's not the argument


      19        that the City's given me.  I've been trying to


      20        get my development granted at 684- for a while.


      21        They're saying, no, you're not locked in.  So


      22        I'm saying, well, fine, then these trips are


      23        available to me.  I think they're available


      24        anyway.


      25             That was my discussion with Mr. Holt.  So





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it was peripheral, in fairness to the second


       2        part of this.


       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Right.  I was just trying


       4        to get some idea.  Maybe Mr. Hainline --


       5             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


       6             MR. HAINLINE:  Mr. Chairman and members of


       7        the committee, that is indeed an issue which has


       8        come up about ten minutes ago, exactly whether


       9        Mr. Harden's number is locked in.  If it is


      10        locked in, then you denying this isn't going to


      11        benefit him any.  If it is not locked in, then


      12        we don't know what exactly is going on.


      13             With that question outstanding, which is


      14        the fundamental issue here, I would ask that we


      15        defer this for two weeks so we can try and get a


      16        determination as to whether he is locked in and,


      17        therefore, whether anyone will benefit or not


      18        benefit from this person coming out of line.


      19             I mean, in all fairness, Mr. Harden's


      20        client has been in line since 2005.  So everyone


      21        out there has been in line for two or three


      22        years.  This isn't just one applicant; it's a


      23        number of people.  If his number is locked in,


      24        it depends on what number that it's locked in at


      25        as to whether he'll oppose.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So I would ask that we defer it.  We can


       2        look to whether his number is locked in.  I


       3        don't think Mr. Harden would have an objection


       4        to that.  And then we could come back in two


       5        weeks and try and resolve that issue.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I have Councilmember


       7        Shad.


       8             I'm most likely going to defer this in the


       9        hopes that we can get some kind of answer in two


      10        weeks.


      11             MR. SHAD:  (Inaudible.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I'm going to defer


      13        this for two weeks.


      14             I appreciate the two of you continuing to


      15        try to work this out, and I'd appreciate the


      16        Planning Department putting this as a


      17        priority --


      18             MR. CLARK:  (Inaudible.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah, but try to make this a


      20        priority so we can come back next week and bring


      21        it to a resolution.


      22             MR. HAINLINE:  All right.  Thank you.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      24             We're going to continue 2007-1215.  We'll


      25        open and continue that public hearing with no





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        further action.


       2             Thank you, gentlemen.


       3             Item 44, 2007-1230.  We'll open that public


       4        hearing.  We have several speakers, the first


       5        one being Karl Sanders, followed by


       6        Chris Gilmore, followed by Michael Kershner.


       7             Before I forget, I neglected to welcome


       8        Councilmember Bishop to our meeting today, and


       9        Councilmember Holt was here for a few minutes


      10        earlier.


      11             Councilman Bishop, we appreciate you being


      12        here.


      13             (Mr. Sanders approaches the podium.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, Mr. Sanders.


      15             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      16             Karl Sanders, 6 East Bay Street, for the


      17        applicant.


      18             Is staff going to give their report or do


      19        you just want me to go ahead and get into the


      20        meat of this?


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's go ahead and do the


      22        public hearing and then we'll get the staff


      23        report later.


      24             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you.


      25             And, Mr. Chairman, if possible, could





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Ms. Approbato come back there?


       2             We've got some slides we'd like to put up


       3        for the council's benefit to do our


       4        presentation.


       5             Mr. Chairman and members of the LUZ


       6        committee, good evening.


       7             I guess the good news is -- the bad news is


       8        I've got opposition.  The good news is I don't


       9        think that most of the people here are opposed


      10        to my application; it's a subsequent one.  So


      11        hopefully this won't be too long, and I will try


      12        to be quick as we go through it tonight.


      13             The proposal that you have before you


      14        tonight on this particular application is to


      15        take a parcel of land of about 13 acres --


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Sanders, if I could get


      17        the staff to show the slides instead of your


      18        staff, I would appreciate that.


      19             MR. SANDERS:  That would be fine.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      21             MR. SANDERS:  The proposal you have, again,


      22        Mr. Chairman, is about 13 acres.  It currently


      23        has a land use designation of LDR, low density


      24        residential.  We're asking it to be amended to


      25        allow for MDR uses, specifically approximately





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        204 multifamily dwelling units.


       2             The staff report that you have before you


       3        tonight, as you will see, has recommended denial


       4        of our application.  The -- but the -- excuse me


       5        just one minute.  Can y'all see the picture


       6        that's up there?  Because I can't see it on this


       7        up here.


       8             MR. SHAD:  Yeah, we can see it.


       9             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you.


      10             As you can see on the aerial that you have


      11        before you, the property is located basically at


      12        the intersection of Beach Boulevard and Peach


      13        Drive.  Those of you who are familiar with that


      14        area will know it's basically across the street


      15        from the old Gooney (phonetic) golf putt-putt


      16        course where the historical or infamous T-Rex


      17        statue stands.


      18             The site that you have lies directly


      19        adjacent to commercial zoning and commercial


      20        development, basically a strip mall to the south


      21        as well as a gas station on the corner.  On the


      22        other side, you have a mitigation bank that has


      23        a conservation zoning designation that was


      24        rezoned to conservation back in '98.  And then


      25        on the other side, you have about ten





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        single-family homes that were built in the '60s,


       2        about half-acre lots, with about 120 feet of


       3        buffer between the homes and the rear parcel


       4        line.


       5             What I respectfully submit is basically


       6        four things this evening:


       7             Number one, the staff report that you have


       8        before you is inconsistent with reality.  And by


       9        that I mean it's inconsistent in that it does


      10        not take account of the actual development


      11        patterns that are on the ground as opposed to


      12        looking at some blank land use maps.


      13             Number two, staff's recommendation and


      14        their analysis is actually inconsistent with


      15        their prior analyses and recommendations on


      16        similar projects.


      17             Is that my time?


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm going to give you about


      19        another minute because of our little technical


      20        difficulties.


      21             MR. SANDERS:  Thank you.


      22             Number three, the staff report is


      23        inconsistent with the professional


      24        recommendation of this City's immediate past


      25        planning director, Mr. Mike Saylor.  I believe





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that you have his letter -- you should have his


       2        letter before you this evening that goes through


       3        the various reasons why it is that the staff's


       4        report is, in fact, contrary to the various


       5        policies in our comprehensive plan.


       6             Lastly, staff's report and analysis is


       7        inconsistent with the findings and


       8        recommendation of every single Planning


       9        Commission member that heard this item back in


      10        December.  That is, the Planning Commission


      11        voted unanimously to recommend approval of this


      12        application because of the various items that I


      13        mentioned and the various items of which I'd be


      14        more than happy to go through with you later if


      15        indeed you have questions.


      16             The last thing I'll mention, Mr. Chairman


      17        and members of the committee, is the staff


      18        report is inconsistent with the City's 2006 --


      19        the recommendations of the City's '06 Workforce


      20        Housing Task Force -- of which, Mr. Chairman, I


      21        believe you were a member, as was Councilmember


      22        Jones -- in various policies that are set forth


      23        in there that establish why it is that the City


      24        is encouraging this type of development.


      25             With that being said, I will reserve the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        rest of my time, if I may, for rebuttal and will


       2        certainly be available to answer any questions


       3        the committee members may have.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Sanders.


       5             Chris Gilmore, followed by Michael


       6        Kershner.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       9             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      10             My name is Chris Gilmore --


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Pull that microphone down a


      12        little bit, please.


      13             MS. GILMORE:  My name is Chris Gilmore,


      14        9730 Doolittle Road, representing the Southside


      15        Estates Civic Association.


      16             This address on the application of 10055


      17        Beach Boulevard does not exist.  The property


      18        has no direct access to Beach Boulevard.  The


      19        only access to the property at the present time


      20        is by way of a dirt easement off of Peach Drive,


      21        having a conservation land use.  The easement


      22        runs behind the commercial property on Beach


      23        Boulevard.  As far as I can determine, the


      24        easement is 65 feet, which on the original plat


      25        was to be a right-of-way to extend Patton Road





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to St. Johns Bluff Road.


       2             This land change would be inconsistent with


       3        goal 1, policy 1.1.7 of the future land use


       4        element of the comprehensive plan.  The MDR land


       5        use would allow up to 20 units per acre next to


       6        land developed -- or proposed to be developed,


       7        at a maximum of seven units per acre.


       8             Policy 1.1.7 calls for a gradual transition


       9        of densities and intensities between land uses.


      10        Going from two units per acre up to 20 units is


      11        not gradual.  Going from two units per acre to


      12        seven units per acre is certainly a better


      13        transition.  Therefore, the land should be left


      14        to develop as LDR with no more than seven units


      15        per acre, the same as all adjacent properties to


      16        the north, south, east, and west.


      17             Contrary to the comp plan, policy 1.1.11,


      18        to change this parcel to MDR would have a


      19        detrimental effect on the surrounding


      20        properties, both developed and undeveloped.  It


      21        would detract rather than enhance the


      22        character -- it would detract rather than


      23        enhance the character of the established


      24        single-family development.  It would prevent the


      25        surrounding land uses from achieving an optimal,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        ecological, and economic benefit and diminish


       2        the enjoyment of their properties through the


       3        walls of privacy.


       4             To approve this land use change would


       5        create a multifamily MDR land use, completely


       6        surrounded by single-family and conservation


       7        within -- with a three-story apartment


       8        development wedged in a corner.


       9             The Planning Department states that it's


      10        inconsistent with the comprehensive plan and


      11        several of its policies and goals and also


      12        inconsistent with the State plan.


      13             I respectfully ask that you follow the


      14        recommendation of the Planning Department and


      15        vote to deny this request.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      17             MS. GILMORE:  I have a letter that was sent


      18        to me.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Gilmore, your time has


      20        expired.


      21             MS. GILMORE:  I just want to --


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  You can turn that in.  We'll


      23        be happy to take that for you.


      24             Thank you.


      25             Our next speaker is Michael Kershner,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        followed by Pamela Eutsler.


       2             I'm sorry, I can't pronounce your name.


       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


       6             I live at 3018 Peach Drive.


       7             I'm opposed due to -- I think the


       8        congestion on Peach and Beach would be higher.


       9        I'm concerned about drainage because I know


      10        that's very low land and the builder would have


      11        to increase the level.  And I'm concerned with


      12        the drainage, which will be the back of my yard


      13        basically.


      14             Thank you.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      16             Next speaker is Pamela Eutsler -- if you


      17        can come up and pronounce your name so I don't


      18        butcher it for you -- followed by


      19        Thomas Haeussner.


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Don't start my three


      21        minutes till I get there.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.


      24             My name is Pam Eutsler.  I live at 2851


      25        Peach Drive.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I'm offended by some of the things he


       2        said.  He seems to put in there that it only


       3        butts up against a -- that he forgets it butts


       4        up against homes on three sides, and in the very


       5        back is wetlands.  And those homes were built in


       6        the '60s, but I have a beautiful home.  It's not


       7        a Deerwood home by any means, but it's a


       8        beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood with


       9        half-acre properties with old live oak trees.


      10             This property, by the way, at one time the


      11        City did a beautiful job to be stewards of that


      12        land.  There used to be three spring-fed lakes


      13        on the land with fish and turtles.  There used


      14        to be trees with owls.  There used to be bike


      15        paths.  There used to be a horse riding path


      16        around it.


      17             When we finally agreed to let someone take


      18        the front part of the property and use it to


      19        build a small strip mall, it was with the


      20        understanding that these lakes would be saved


      21        just like they were.


      22             I got a call from a neighbor on a Sunday


      23        morning to say, "There's dump trucks back there;


      24        you need to hurry."  I went back there, and all


      25        three lakes are now completely filled in.  He





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        wouldn't even let me have anybody get out there


       2        to get the turtles out.  They were just filled


       3        in.  Trees were chopped down.  BEAKS came out.


       4        They're aware of what happened.  They picked up


       5        an owl's nest that had been destroyed virtually


       6        except for the baby owls.


       7             Now, this is the third or fourth person


       8        that's owned this property, and I was hoping he


       9        would be a good steward.  Instead, they're going


      10        to build on only 13 acres, 204 units, and you're


      11        not even including the fact that there's got to


      12        be roads there.  There's got to be sidewalks


      13        also there, garages, parking garages, a place to


      14        put cars, and only 13 units that are surrounded


      15        by homes on three sides.  The very back of that


      16        area is still a wetlands area.


      17             I was hoping that the City would also, once


      18        again, be great stewards of the land and take


      19        care of the property.


      20             Last time there were people here to talk,


      21        but he had deferred our section of it until


      22        after the last meeting that lasted from 1:00


      23        until 9 o'clock.  So by being last, the senior


      24        citizens that live in the area that I brought


      25        with me, none of them could make it past





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        6 o'clock.  So they couldn't be here to talk


       2        last time.


       3             I know it got approved, and I did have


       4        people with me, but you don't want them around


       5        when they miss dinner.  So they had to go home.


       6        So I resent that too.


       7             I don't know why he -- and he had even told


       8        us at the end -- we asked why we were put last


       9        when we weren't supposed to be, and the answer


      10        was, "Sorry, I didn't know anybody was here."


      11        Well, all the Craig people were here.  He sure


      12        knew that.


      13             So I don't think it was right to defer us


      14        to last the last time because I needed to get


      15        them in and get them out.  I promised them we


      16        were early on the agenda.


      17             So thank you very much for your time.  I


      18        hope you deny it.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      20             Just for the record, I've seen these people


      21        when they haven't had dinner.


      22             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (Applause.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ladies and gentlemen, we


      24        don't allow demonstrations, so I'd appreciate


      25        you not doing that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Our next speaker is Thomas Haeussner,


       2        followed by Ross Benolken.


       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


       5             I am married to the short, blond lady that


       6        was just up here a minute ago.  I must say that


       7        she's very spunky, and she speaks from the


       8        heart.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Can you give us your name


      10        and address, please.


      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thomas Haeussner, 2851


      12        Peach Drive.


      13             I've lived in Jacksonville since 1952.


      14        I've been married and living there since 1979.


      15        I've seen a lot of changes go on and


      16        everything.


      17             My biggest concern is the people who live


      18        east and west of this supposed development are


      19        going to be severely impacted.  I speak for them


      20        as well as the ones that live on Peach Drive.


      21        The traffic and everything is going to be


      22        compounded.  The property values will be lost.


      23             Everyone who lives there is either an


      24        elderly couple or they're now buying up these


      25        older homes and redesigning them and fixing them





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        on these fairly nice property sizes that we have


       2        out there.  There's a lot of potential, but to


       3        put in apartment complexes, to dump in that many


       4        units on just small acreage does not fit into


       5        our design of that community.


       6             I would like to see if you would offer --


       7        request that those who are opposed to this,


       8        please stand.


       9             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (Comply.)


      10             MR. HAEUSSNER:  Would you request that


      11        those who are opposed to this project please


      12        stand?


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (Comply.)


      14             MR. HAEUSSNER:  This is probably the best


      15        turnout we've had in a long time.


      16             You can be seated.  Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.


      18             Our next speaker is Ross Benolken, followed


      19        by former Councilwoman Lynette Self.


      20             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Ross Benolken,


      22        at 9833 Bradley Road.


      23             I've been a resident of Southside Estates


      24        for over 37 years, and I'm very active in our


      25        civic association.  I know the area very, very





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        well.  Peach Drive is a single-lane, winding


       2        road that goes between Beach Boulevard and


       3        Atlantic Boulevard.  Having this many more units


       4        trying to get in and out of that is just going


       5        to be a catastrophe at that intersection.


       6             There's a stoplight at Peach Drive which


       7        would allow cars to go in and out, but trying to


       8        turn left off of Peach Boulevard is just going


       9        to be a nightmare for people that live down


      10        there.


      11             Thank you very much.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      13             Our next speaker is my former colleague


      14        Lynette Self.


      15             (Ms. Self approaches the podium.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Welcome back.


      17             MS. SELF:  Thanks.  Good evening.


      18             I'm Lynette Self.  My address is 12209


      19        Bittercreek Lane.


      20             I didn't really know this was on the agenda


      21        tonight.  I actually came for another issue.


      22        I'm sure you all don't know what that is, but I


      23        am here for another issue tonight.


      24             This was a land use that was actually


      25        proposed when I was on council.  I remember





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Councilman Bishop was actually at a meeting with


       2        me, a town meeting that we had on this.


       3             This is not a good idea for this


       4        community.  This is a single-family community.


       5        It's a community that is -- I actually grew up


       6        in this community, so I'm very familiar with


       7        it.


       8             The access to this is virtually none.


       9        There is access, but it's very difficult to get


      10        to this piece of property.  And to put a


      11        three-story building, I think, with 240 units --


      12             MR. SANDERS:  Two hundred and four.


      13             MS. SELF:  -- two hundred and four units --


      14        it doesn't really make a big difference -- it


      15        just doesn't fit in this community.  So I would


      16        hope that you would support the community.


      17             I know at the town meeting that we had,


      18        Karl actually did a great presentation, but the


      19        community is just saying, no, this isn't good


      20        for us; it doesn't fit in.


      21             The road that he is talking about is a


      22        two-lane road.  It's a small road.  It's a


      23        narrow road.  To put this much traffic back on


      24        it is not good for this community, so I'd ask


      25        that you not support this land use.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Thank you.  Good to see you guys.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.  Good to see


       3        you.


       4             I have no further speakers.  We will close


       5        the public hearing.


       6             Councilmember Bishop, would you like to


       7        make some comments?


       8             MR. BISHOP:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I


       9        appreciate the opportunity.


      10             As former Councilwoman Self said, this is


      11        not a good idea.  There were references to the


      12        Planning Commission deliberations earlier in the


      13        discussion about this.  Yes, the Planning


      14        Commission unanimously approved it.  They went


      15        through that discussion about, well, we can


      16        approve it now because it's just a


      17        recommendation and when it comes back from


      18        Tallahassee, we can look at it again kind of an


      19        approach.  But be that as it may, it was not a


      20        resounding affirmation of the merits of this


      21        particular proposal.


      22             Nothing has really changed since the last


      23        time this came up, about a year and a half ago,


      24        where it was, I think, ultimately withdrawn.


      25        It's still a proposed apartment complex with a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        couple hundred units on a piece of property


       2        that's wedged behind a single-family


       3        neighborhood.


       4             This particular area is one of those old,


       5        preconsolidation, rural-residential-type


       6        developments.  It was done back in the '60s when


       7        it was -- when that area was out in the middle


       8        of nowhere.  It's bounded -- Peach Street [sic]


       9        comes out onto Beach Boulevard.  The adjoining


      10        property is CCG-2 zoning for a strip center.


      11        There's no buffer between these two activities


      12        at all.


      13             This really is not an exercise in


      14        planning.  This is an exercise in default


      15        construction.  The particular piece of property


      16        is behind this old, rural residential


      17        development.


      18             It says -- Beach Boulevard address.  It's


      19        not a Beach Boulevard address.  It's an old


      20        right-of-way that accesses onto Peach Street,


      21        which, as it's already been stated, it's an


      22        old -- it's an old, two-lane residential street


      23        which you're going to dump cars from 200


      24        apartments onto.


      25             It doesn't have access to Beach Boulevard.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        If it had access to Beach Boulevard, it might be


       2        an entirely different discussion, but it


       3        doesn't, and there's no mechanism under this


       4        thing to even fix that sort of proposal.


       5             So this is not a buffer land use between


       6        incompatible uses.  It's simply an intrusion


       7        into an old -- what was developed as a rural


       8        residential community, and it's just wrong and


       9        it shouldn't be done.


      10             This is the kind of thing that happens all


      11        over the county where we don't adequately go in


      12        and plan for these kind of things.  It should


      13        not be continued in the manner in which it's


      14        done.


      15             It's perfectly fine to be developed as


      16        single-family residential, which currently the


      17        land use designation is what the zoning would


      18        support, and that is perfectly consistent with


      19        the activity in the area and what would be


      20        accessed off of Peach Street, but to intensify


      21        this thing to that degree I just think is just


      22        simply wrong and would urge you to recommend


      23        denial of this application.


      24             Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Let me go to the Planning Department and


       2        get your feedback on the denial.


       3             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman and members of


       4        the committee, I would, first of all, submit


       5        that we feel -- I would refer you to our report


       6        on this particular item, which I feel is a


       7        substantially well-written report.  It's


       8        well-documented.  It's well-thought-out.  It's


       9        logical, and I think it's based on the sound


      10        principles within our comprehensive plan, and it


      11        is, in our opinion, something that does not


      12        reflect good planning.


      13             This particular situation, there are --


      14        within our report, I will just tell you that


      15        there are numerous goals and objectives that


      16        this is inconsistent with.  We've talked about


      17        incompatibility or unlikeness with surrounding


      18        land uses.  This is definitely a multifamily use


      19        within a residential area.


      20             There are concerns to us with regard to


      21        access.  It's just -- it's not a gradual


      22        transition which we're looking for.  It's


      23        isolated.  It's to the rear, adjacent or


      24        juxtaposition to single-family.


      25             There are many reasons, talking about the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        character of the area, the impact that this


       2        would have on the infrastructure in the area


       3        that concerns us greatly.


       4             We are, again, concerned about the impact,


       5        its inconsistency not only with the numerous


       6        goals and objectives as referenced in our report


       7        as well as the operative provisions, but as well


       8        as with, as we've identified, policies in our


       9        regional policy plan as well, and as well with


      10        our state comprehensive plan.


      11             So for all those reasons which we've


      12        documented in terms of incompatibility and


      13        insufficient services and inappropriate access,


      14        we have grave concerns about the development and


      15        have recommended denial.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move to deny.


      18             MS. JONES:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      20        to deny 2007-1230.


      21             Is there any discussion on the denial?


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Seeing none, open the ballot


      24        and record the vote.


      25             Green if you support the denial, red if you





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        support --


       2             (Committee ballot opened.)


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      10             (Committee ballot closed.)


      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      13        denied 2007-1230.


      14             We're at the top of page 14, 2007-1231.


      15        We'll open that public hearing.


      16             Seeing no speakers, we will close that


      17        public hearing.


      18             Do I have a motion?


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.


      20             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      22        on -1231.  Seeing no discussion, all in favor --


      23             I'm sorry.  Open the ballot and record the


      24        vote.


      25             (Committee ballot opened.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       8             (Committee ballot closed.)


       9             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      11        approved 2007-1231.


      12             Item 46, 2007-1232.  We'll open that public


      13        hearing.  We have one speaker, Wyman Duggan.


      14             (Mr. Duggan approaches the podium.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, Wyman.


      16             Happy New Year.


      17             MR. DUGGAN:  Happy New Year to you,


      18        Mr. Chairman.


      19             Wyman Duggan, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard,


      20        Suite 1500, for the applicant.


      21             This land use amendment is on 301, north of


      22        Maxville.  I spoke with Councilman Holt this


      23        afternoon.  He had no objections.


      24             And I'm available for any questions.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Seeing no questions, we will close that


       2        public hearing.


       3             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


       4             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on -1232.


       6             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


       7        record the vote.


       8             (Committee ballot opened.)


       9             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      16             (Committee ballot closed.)


      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      19        approved 2007-1232.


      20             Thank you, sir.


      21             MR. DUGGAN:  Thank you.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Item 47, 2007-1233.  We'll


      23        open that public hearing.


      24             Seeing no speakers, the district


      25        councilwoman, Councilwoman Jones, requested that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        we continue that public hearing with no further


       2        action.  That was discussed in the agenda


       3        meeting.  That will mean this bill will be


       4        postponed to the next semiannual series.


       5             Item 48 is 2007-1234.  We will open that


       6        public hearing.  We have a speaker,


       7        Mr. Charles Mann.


       8             (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)


       9             MR. MANN:  Mr. Chairman, Charles Mann, 165


      10        Arlington Road, representing the landowner.


      11             This is more of a cleanup of the zoning map


      12        on the north side of Duval Road.  This is an


      13        isolated piece of property of IL.  It is


      14        surrounded by CGC that has been rezoned for


      15        commercial and residential uses.  When we did


      16        the zoning, there was no residential element in


      17        the IL.


      18             What we're proposing is to downzone or to


      19        rezone the property or to change the land use


      20        from IL to CGC and then file a PUD on this so it


      21        will be compatible with the surrounding land.


      22             Thank you.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      24             Seeing no further speakers, we will close


      25        that public hearing.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Do I have a motion on the bill?


       2             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


       3             MR. CLARK:  Second.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


       5        on -1234.


       6             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


       7        record the vote.


       8             (Committee ballot opened.)


       9             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      16             (Committee ballot closed.)


      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      19        approved 2007-1234.


      20             MR. MANN:  Thank you very much.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      22             2007-1235.  We'll open that public


      23        hearing.  We have one speaker, Ms. Paige


      24        Johnston.


      25             (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       2             MS. JOHNSTON:  Good evening.


       3             Hello.  Paige Johnston, 1301 Riverplace


       4        Boulevard, on behalf of the applicants.


       5             This is an application for land use


       6        transmittal, and we're requesting a land use


       7        change from the low density residential to the


       8        residential, professional, and institutional


       9        land use category.


      10             This property is east of I-95, and if


      11        you're traveling north along I-95, past


      12        Heckscher Drive, you may recall seeing the


      13        United Ironworkers Union facility.  This


      14        property is adjacent to the south of that


      15        property.  To the east of the property is an


      16        existing residential subdivision known as


      17        Holly Ford (phonetic).  And our request to take


      18        this to RPI would allow us to have a use that I


      19        believe is more consistent with the


      20        comprehensive plan.


      21             Recently, the council adopted an industrial


      22        sanctuary plan.  This property is located in an


      23        area that's known as the situational


      24        compatibility area.  The properties to the north


      25        of this site and further beyond Clark Road are





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        all within the industrial sanctuary.  The only


       2        thing is that this RPI is more compatible.


       3             I'm not aware of any opposition from the


       4        adjoining community of Holly Ford.  I've had two


       5        people contact me with general questions but no


       6        opposition.


       7             When we came before the Northside CPAC,


       8        there was some concern from the CPAC because, in


       9        their words, they felt the RPI land use category


      10        was too broad and that it allowed too many


      11        things.  We feel like with the PUD that will be


      12        presented with this application, that that PUD


      13        will address their concerns, and we can go


      14        through any concerns that they may have as to


      15        buffering or landscaping, anything having to do


      16        with the compatibility with the neighborhood.


      17             So we would ask you to -- as the staff


      18        requested support of the application, that you


      19        also support the application.


      20             And I'm available for questions.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.


      22             Councilwoman Lee.


      23             MS. LEE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             This particular application is in the


      25        district that I represent.  Ms. Johnston did





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        write me a letter, hand delivered, in


       2        September.  And prior to then, I really didn't


       3        have any problems with it.  And, technically, I


       4        don't have any now.


       5             My concern is the opposition from the


       6        CPAC.


       7             MS. JOHNSTON:  Yes, ma'am, and --


       8             MS. LEE:  Excuse me.


       9             Mr. Heywood, whom I spoke with earlier, did


      10        inform me that he felt that it wasn't any large


      11        opposition, but I want to make sure that I'm


      12        aware of exactly what the opposition is.


      13             For instance, in Ms. Johnston's letter


      14        dated September the 17th, if I could, real


      15        quick --


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Uh-huh.


      17             MS. LEE:  -- "We represent the applicant in


      18        a recent application for a semiannual


      19        comprehensive plan."


      20             In the second paragraph, "The property


      21        subject to the application, approximately


      22        8.22-plus/minus acres, is located near I-95 and


      23        Heckscher Drive on Kentucky Street in North


      24        Jacksonville.  The property was rezoned in 2004


      25        to a PUD to permit an assisted living facility,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        but the project was never initiated.


       2             "The applicant is seeking a semiannual


       3        comprehensive plan amendment on this parcel.


       4        The applicant would like to develop the property


       5        for multifamily residential uses through a PUD,


       6        which will be submitted in the spring."


       7             In Ms. Johnston's comments, she didn't


       8        mention the proposed apartments.  And I'm


       9        certainly not opposed to development.  I am


      10        concerned that in -- if you look on your agenda,


      11        the comments state that there is a letter of


      12        opposition on file.  I don't know if I have that


      13        letter.  I don't see it.  What is the letter?


      14             Through the Chair, did I miss it?  This is


      15        what is stated.


      16             Do you see it, Mr. Chairman?


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, I see it's stated, but


      18        I don't have a copy of it that I know of from


      19        the Planning Department.


      20             MS. LEE:  I don't either.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Legislative Services has one


      22        for you.


      23             MS. LEE:  I would like to read this for the


      24        record.  It's dated November the 28th.


      25             "Dear Councilmember Corrigan" -- it was





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        addressed to you, Mr. Chairman -- "the North


       2        District CPAC voted at their October meeting to


       3        recommend to deny this application."


       4             Basically, you know, it says it's the labor


       5        union hall.


       6             "This is on the back side of the Holly Ford


       7        neighborhood, which has been there for 50 years,


       8        with only one road out of the area across the


       9        CSX Railroad lines, namely Ford Avenue.  RPI and


      10        MU could also include IL, which is totally out


      11        of the question.


      12             "For these reasons, we recommend that the


      13        application is denied.


      14             "Sincerely, Bill Baker, Chairman."


      15             It's cc'd to every member of the


      16        committee.


      17             I guess I would -- I don't think anyone


      18        from the CPAC contacted me, you know.  But, I


      19        mean, I could take the position since they


      20        didn't talk with me, I would go ahead and move


      21        it, but I don't want to do that.  I would like


      22        to --


      23             MS. JOHNSTON:  Ms. Lee, would you mind if I


      24        elaborated a little on the conversations before


      25        the CPAC?  Because, actually, the CPAC has a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        subcommittee, the Governmental Affairs


       2        Subcommittee, that considers --


       3             MS. LEE:  Yes, ma'am.  If you'd just let me


       4        finish.


       5             MS. JOHNSTON:  Okay.  I'm sorry.  Please


       6        continue.


       7             MS. LEE:  My question would be, through the


       8        Chair to Ms. Johnston, do you have some type of


       9        time line you're dealing with?


      10             MS. JOHNSTON:  Yes, ma'am.


      11             Because this is a land use transmittal


      12        application, they travel in a series together.


      13        And if it is deferred, then, as Ms. Jones asked


      14        that a prior application be deferred, it's


      15        deferred for six months time.  It's not a


      16        two-week stint like a regular rezoning


      17        application.


      18             So what I would suggest, if you would be


      19        open to the suggestion, is that -- because a lot


      20        of the concerns that I can elaborate on for you


      21        from the CPAC had to do with what would actually


      22        be within the site plan and the PUD -- that we


      23        could continue to work on those types of things


      24        and meet with Ms. Lee and with the CPAC in


      25        addition to any members of the Holly Ford





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        community that would want to be involved in the


       2        process so that we could address any concerns


       3        that they might have.


       4             MS. LEE:  Well, Ms. Johnston, I certainly


       5        think you are an honorable person, but, you


       6        know, we do know that if it's not in writing,


       7        things happen and things change.


       8             What I would be amenable to, Mr. Chairman


       9        and members of the committee, is that we defer


      10        this.  And if the CPAC committee or


      11        representative feels -- feel that, you know, he


      12        wants to talk to me or they feel necessary that


      13        it's, you know, important or it doesn't matter


      14        one way or the other, then I'll ask for it to be


      15        pulled.


      16             But I do think I have some responsibility,


      17        since there is a letter of opposition in the


      18        record, that I should try to find out what the


      19        problems are and see if there's a way to resolve


      20        it.


      21             Ms. Johnston, I'm sorry, because I know


      22        that you did write me, and at the particular


      23        time, obviously, I didn't -- but there's a


      24        letter of opposition in the file.


      25             I've talked with no one with the Northside





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        CPAC.  And only a small portion is in the area I


       2        represent, but it still is and I don't want to


       3        at least not have the opportunity to have some


       4        type of dialogue with the group.


       5             If, for instance, we're able to have some


       6        conversation between now and next Tuesday, then


       7        I would ask Mr. Corrigan if he would be


       8        amenable, and if I'm comfortable with it, to


       9        pull it, and we could then vote on it.


      10             MS. JOHNSTON:  Yes, ma'am.


      11             If you're willing to do so, I'm sure before


      12        next Tuesday we could perhaps try to schedule a


      13        meeting with either the Chair of the


      14        Governmental Affairs Subcommittee or someone


      15        within the CPAC committee of your choice if you


      16        would like to discuss those issues.


      17             I would ask that we go ahead and move


      18        forward on the application tonight, not defer


      19        the application tonight but move forward


      20        tonight, and then by Tuesday if you still have


      21        these concerns, then we would agree to defer it


      22        on Tuesday.


      23             Would that be agreeable?


      24             MS. LEE:  No, it won't.


      25             I will request deferral and allow exactly





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        what I said prior to -- I do have a question.


       2             Is the developer willing to state that it


       3        won't be apartments built?  Is that -- or what


       4        will be built?


       5             MS. JOHNSTON:  No, ma'am.


       6             When we met before the CPAC and the


       7        Governmental Affairs Committee, we explained


       8        what the project was, and we suggested that it


       9        would be apartments or condominiums.


      10             I believe some of the concern indicated


      11        from some of the members of the CPAC was that


      12        they did not -- essentially do not want


      13        multifamily anywhere within the Northside.  Even


      14        though this location may be appropriate for


      15        that, they did not want the proliferation of


      16        multifamily.  They cited increased crime rates,


      17        subsidized housing, government housing.


      18             Their concerns were that it was going to be


      19        some type of low-rent, low-income type housing.


      20        I told them that our intention was to do a


      21        quality project and that our PUD would set forth


      22        development standards and that we would be --


      23        that we would clearly state forth that we would


      24        not do a low-income housing project.


      25             Some of the members of the Governmental





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Affairs Committee understood that the zoning


       2        aspect of it would come through the PUD in the


       3        spring, and they were willing to move forward


       4        with the application.  And one of the members of


       5        the CPAC, Tom Ruffin (phonetic), said


       6        specifically, Well, Ms. Johnston, I know you're


       7        going to have to come back in the spring, and if


       8        you don't bring me a good PUD, I'll vote against


       9        it, but I'm okay with moving forward today


      10        because I know that you're going to have to


      11        follow up with a PUD that I'm happy with.


      12             Now, when we got to the full CPAC, there


      13        were a couple of members of the CPAC who


      14        basically said we don't like the RPI land use


      15        category because you can do multifamily and you


      16        can do commercial and you can do office all


      17        within that.  I said, well, we are proposing a


      18        residential project.  And, as I said, they're


      19        not happy with the residential -- the


      20        multifamily component of the project.


      21             In the letter in opposition from the


      22        CPAC -- I actually didn't get a chance to see


      23        that -- but what you read said that they could


      24        also do light industrial, and you cannot do


      25        light industrial in an RPI land use category.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        So that is incorrect.  There's limited types of


       2        uses allowed in RPI.  There's limited commercial


       3        office, single-family, multifamily, and I


       4        believe staff can confirm that for me if I'm


       5        speaking out of turn.


       6             MS. LEE:  Through the Chair.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Can I give it a little bit


       8        of input?


       9             The difficulty if we defer and try to bring


      10        it up is it won't appear on the agenda on


      11        Tuesday night because we're the only committee


      12        of reference.  So it would have to be placed on


      13        the addendum, which the Council President warned


      14        at the last meeting he would not be in favor of


      15        having an addendum anymore.


      16             So I'll support what the district


      17        councilperson wanted to do.  I just want to make


      18        sure you had all the information.


      19             MS. LEE:  Right.  Well, maybe --


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  If you told me at the


      21        meeting you want to defer it, I would absolutely


      22        defer it.


      23             MS. LEE:  I think, Mr. Chairman, that there


      24        are special circumstances.  And that's the good


      25        thing about our -- Mr. Chairman, that's the good





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        thing about our process, is that that is why it


       2        is in place, so that when councilmembers are not


       3        sure and they don't have enough information and


       4        there may be some missing points, that the


       5        leadership of the council acknowledges that and


       6        that the chairperson of those respective


       7        committees will make that request.


       8             I think that, based on what Ms. Johnston


       9        said, it's indicative of all communities that


      10        say they don't want apartments.  I think we just


      11        voted some things down.  You know, nobody wants


      12        anything in their back door.


      13             I am not stating at all that I am opposed


      14        to this.  If I were adamantly opposed to it


      15        between September and now, I certainly would


      16        have voiced that.  But inasmuch as it is a


      17        letter of opposition dated November the 28th,


      18        which is right here in front of us -- maybe


      19        because of Thanksgiving and some other things, I


      20        certainly wasn't cognizant of it and obviously


      21        the other members weren't because it wasn't even


      22        in our folder today -- Mr. Chairman, I would


      23        like to think that the leadership of the council


      24        would be amenable because that's why this


      25        process is here.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have good news for you.  I


       2        was incorrect.  We actually have a public


       3        hearing at council on Tuesday night, the 8th.


       4        So it will appear on the agenda, so you can do


       5        what you want.


       6             I would encourage Ms. Johnston and the CPAC


       7        chair to get with the councilwoman and try to


       8        work it out and, obviously, would support


       9        releasing it from the committee if you were


      10        happy at that point.


      11             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, I do appreciate


      12        that.


      13             And, Ms. Johnston, again, my opposition to


      14        releasing this today certainly is not personal


      15        towards your firm, but there are letters of


      16        opposition.  It is in the area that I represent,


      17        and I would just like to make sure that at least


      18        I have -- at least had an opportunity to reach


      19        out to see what the problem is.


      20             That certainly doesn't mean I'm for or


      21        against it, but it means that at least I've


      22        attempted to try to meet with the people who


      23        will most be affected by it, the people who live


      24        in the area.


      25             MS. JOHNSTON:  Yes, ma'am, we understand.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And we will make every effort to contact


       2        you and be in contact with you and the CPAC


       3        member before next Tuesday to discuss it


       4        further.


       5             MS. LEE:  I apologize that we're doing this


       6        at the last minute.  In the future, if you have


       7        anything, I'll certainly make an effort to try


       8        to work it out prior to meeting.


       9             MS. JOHNSTON:  Thank you.  I appreciate


      10        that.


      11             MS. LEE:  You're welcome.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  So based on your request,


      13        Councilmember Lee, I'm going to open and


      14        continue 2007-1235 with no further action.


      15        There will be a public hearing on Tuesday.  And


      16        if it's worked out, then I'll be happy to


      17        discuss releasing it from the committee.


      18             MS. LEE:  (Inaudible.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, to keep the public


      20        hearing open in the event that action does not


      21        happen on Tuesday, then it will be available for


      22        action at a future date without readvertising.


      23             It's standard procedure that we would do at


      24        this point.  I mean, we're deferring it.  We're


      25        not taking any action.  We're just continuing





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the public hearing.


       2             MS. LEE:  Okay.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       4             MS. JOHNSTON:  Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Item number 50, 2007-1236.


       6        We have one speaker, Mr. Tom Ingram.


       7             (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)


       8             MR. INGRAM:  Good evening.


       9             Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue, Suite


      10        400.


      11             I'm here representing Alta Lakeside, LLC,


      12        which is part of the Stokes Land Group.


      13             This is a proposed land use amendment for


      14        approximately 287 acres.  It's between Alta and


      15        New Berlin.  It's south of the Northpoint


      16        Industrial Park and north of several warehouse


      17        developments.  There's also residential in the


      18        area, the Marshwinds project and others, but


      19        it's currently approved for 650 single-family


      20        dwelling units.


      21             In light of the Mitsui announcement, the


      22        Hanjin announcement, aggressive industrial


      23        expansion on the Northside, thank God, they're


      24        really looking to be a part of that.  It's a


      25        strategic site.  It's about a half a mile from





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the Alta interchange.  It's less than two miles


       2        from the Mitsui terminal.


       3             So for the long term, for the next hundred


       4        years plus, this is a -- it's a great site for


       5        warehouse distribution and to provide the jobs


       6        for the future of Jacksonville.


       7             I'd be happy to answer any questions.


       8        Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      10             Seeing no questions and no further


      11        speakers, we'll close that public hearing.


      12             MR. WEBB:  Move the bill.


      13             MS. JONES:  Second.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on


      15        2007-1236.


      16             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and


      17        record the vote.


      18             (Committee ballot opened.)


      19             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Committee ballot closed.)


       2             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  You just approved 2007-1236.


       4             Thank you.


       5             MR. INGRAM:  Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Item 51, 2007-1237.  We will


       7        open that public hearing.


       8             Seeing no speakers for -1237 -- actually, I


       9        do.  I'm sorry.  It's Paige Johnston.


      10             Sorry, Paige.


      11             (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)


      12             MS. JOHNSTON:  That's okay.


      13             Paige Johnston, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard,


      14        on behalf of the applicant.


      15             This is another application for land use


      16        transmittal.  We're requesting a land use change


      17        from LDR to LI.


      18             This property is approximately 14 acres at


      19        the intersection of Faye Road and Eastport Road,


      20        and it is located in the industrial sanctuary,


      21        and we believe that this is consistent with the


      22        comprehensive plan.


      23             We met with the area councilperson, and


      24        he's not objecting to the land use change.  And


      25        we also met with the CPAC, and they were in





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        favor of the request.  So we would ask for your


       2        support as well.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       4             Seeing no further speakers, the public


       5        hearing is closed.


       6             Motion on the bill?


       7             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Second?


       9             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      11        on -1237.


      12             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and


      13        record the vote.


      14             (Committee ballot opened.)


      15             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      21             (Committee ballot closed.)


      22             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've just


      24        approved 2007-1237.


      25             2007-1238.  A very familiar face,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Paige Johnston.


       2             MS. JOHNSTON:  Good evening.


       3             Paige Johnston --


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excuse me.  We'll open the


       5        public hearing.


       6             Go ahead.


       7             MS. JOHNSTON:  Paige Johnston, 1301


       8        Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the


       9        applicant.


      10             This also is an application for a land use


      11        transmittal.  We have approximately 995 acres


      12        located at the northwest -- I'm sorry --


      13        northeast intersection of Pecan Park Road and


      14        I-95.


      15             We're requesting the change to multiuse so


      16        that this property can be designated as the


      17        Pecan Park regional activity center.  We have


      18        proposed uses including commercial, light


      19        industrial, residential, and office.


      20             This is located in an area that's


      21        designated on the North Vision -- North Master


      22        Vision plan as a regional power center, and we


      23        believe that we are consistent with the


      24        comprehensive plan.


      25             We have met with the area councilperson,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and he does not object to the application.


       2        We've also met with the CPAC, and they also


       3        supported the application.  There was also a


       4        community meeting that was held a couple of


       5        months ago to go over the plan with the


       6        community, and we had some good feedback from


       7        them as well.  We look forward to working with


       8        everyone throughout the process.


       9             I'm available for questions.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.


      11             Seeing no questions, that public hearing is


      12        closed.


      13             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


      14             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on -1238.


      16             Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and


      17        record the vote.


      18             (Committee ballot opened.)


      19             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      25             (Committee ballot closed.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you just


       3        approved 2007-1238.


       4             Committee members, we're on the top of


       5        page 16, 2007-1239.  We'll open that public


       6        hearing.


       7             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


       8        hearing.


       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.


      10             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion on


      12        2007-1239.


      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  There's an amendment.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  There is an amendment.


      15             MR. CLARK:  Move the amendment.


      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Second.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      18        on the amendment.


      19             Could we please have the amendment


      20        explained to us.


      21             (Inaudible discussion.)


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  I remember somebody saying


      23        an amendment in the agenda meeting, so please


      24        bear with us.


      25             (Inaudible discussion.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  While they're discussing it


       2        for a second time, let me reiterate what I said


       3        earlier.


       4             Due to a new law passed by this council, if


       5        you are here as a lobbyist on any bill that


       6        we'll be considering or if you -- a lobbyist is


       7        defined as someone that's being compensated by


       8        someone that's proposing or defending a bill --


       9        or if you have a financial gain from a


      10        particular project, you need to fill out a


      11        lobbyist registration form prior to speaking.


      12        They are located right up here (indicating).


      13        It's the white paper right up here in the front


      14        on the right.


      15             Councilmember Lee.


      16             MS. LEE:  Mr. Chairman, may I ask a


      17        question about that?


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.


      19             MS. LEE:  I really should be asking legal.


      20        Is someone here from legal?


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Eller.


      22             MS. LEE:  Ms. Eller, I apologize.


      23             If a person is representing something and


      24        they don't speak and they're representing a


      25        group, should they be required to fill out a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        card as well?


       2             MS. ELLER:  I'll double-check, but I


       3        believe our new council rule is just if you're


       4        actively lobbying, so if you are, in fact,


       5        speaking.  So if they're just here to listen in,


       6        then I don't think that they're required to do


       7        that lobbyist registration.


       8             MS. LEE:  Well, what about if they have


       9        lobbied you in the past?


      10             MS. ELLER:  Yeah.  If they are doing --


      11             MS. LEE:  If that person doesn't fill out a


      12        card, can I submit their name and they'd be


      13        required --


      14             MS. ELLER:  Sure.


      15             MS. LEE:  -- if they spoke to me to tell me


      16        who they was supporting?


      17             MS. ELLER:  Sure.  It's not limited to just


      18        when you're speaking before the committee.  It's


      19        any lobbying effort that you do.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's lobbying the Council?


      21             MS. ELLER:  Yeah.  If they show up at your


      22        office --


      23             MS. LEE:  So that person should make sure


      24        that they fill out a card?


      25             MS. ELLER:  Correct.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. LEE:  Okay.  Thank you.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  And just for the record,


       3        it's not just for lobbying the City Council;


       4        it's lobbying any board or commission in the


       5        City.


       6             MS. LEE:  Right.  Well, I just wanted to


       7        make sure because they're having some issues.  I


       8        know I was lobbied on prior to this rule being


       9        at council.  And you may not see those people


      10        speaking, but they are definitely receiving


      11        dollars and cents.  I just want to make sure


      12        that they follow the rules.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      14             Do we have an answer on our amendment yet?


      15             MR. CROFTS:  Yes, sir.  I apologize.


      16             The amendment was something that came up at


      17        the Planning Commission, and I will give it in


      18        this context.


      19             In our negotiations with the Department of


      20        Community Affairs, when they're reviewing our


      21        land use amendments as we transmit them over


      22        there for their review, they have in some cases


      23        asked us to limit the development potential of


      24        particular land use amendments by including on


      25        the future land use map an asterisk, which would





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        depict specifically what the maximum development


       2        potential or development limitations would be


       3        for a particular proposal.


       4             What came up at the Planning Commission


       5        meeting was a citizen, a representative of the


       6        public, said that by including an asterisk on


       7        the map might be confusing and that we ought to


       8        use some other symbol other than an asterisk to


       9        clarify the difference between a particular


      10        development potential as it relates to a


      11        particular amendment in this particular action.


      12             So we're in support.  That's not a


      13        problem.  It's just taking -- using a symbol


      14        other than an asterisk on the land use map to


      15        indicate a potential change, and we're in


      16        support of that amendment.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So our amendment gets


      18        rid of the asterisk and puts something else.


      19             All in favor of the asterisk amendment.


      20             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  The asterisk amendment


      24        carries.


      25             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. JONES:  Second.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on


       3        2007-1239 as amended.


       4             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


       5        record the vote.


       6             (Committee ballot opened.)


       7             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      14             (Committee ballot closed.)


      15             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      17        just approved 2007-1239.


      18             Don't forget to put an asterisk on that


      19        bill noting that amendment.


      20             If you've just joined us or joined us since


      21        we got started, we're going to take up 2007-1240


      22        last.  We have just a little bit more business


      23        to do.  We're going to come back to this bill in


      24        a few minutes.  We want to make sure we can


      25        dedicate the time necessary to properly consider





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        this bill.


       2             We'll skip 54 and go to 55, 2007-1242.


       3        We'll open that public hearing.


       4             Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public


       5        hearing.


       6             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill.


       7             MR. WEBB:  Second.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on


       9        -1242.


      10             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


      11        record the vote.


      12             (Committee ballot opened.)


      13             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      20             (Committee ballot closed.)


      21             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      23        approved 2007-1242.


      24             Item 56, -1243, is deferred.


      25             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excuse me.  Mr. Crofts.


       2             MR. CROFTS:  I think now may be the


       3        appropriate time to go back to page 5 of the


       4        agenda and take up item 14.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's correct.  I


       6        appreciate you bringing that up.


       7             We did have someone that was in a meeting


       8        and could not join us until now.  So I believe


       9        Ms. Moehring is here.  We are back on 2007-578.


      10        We opened and closed that public hearing, and


      11        we're ready to hear input from the Planning


      12        Department.


      13             Is there anyone in the audience here to


      14        speak on 2007-578?  If you would raise your


      15        hand, please.


      16             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  I do not see anybody, so


      18        we'll keep that closed and go to Margo Moehring


      19        for our Planning Department report.


      20             MS. MOEHRING:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      21        Please excuse my tardiness earlier.


      22             You may recall that the text amendment


      23        regarding the coastal high hazard area,


      24        2007-578, was introduced last spring.  The


      25        department requested the item to be deferred





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        from that semiannual series of land use map


       2        amendments and has continued to work on it with


       3        the Regional Council staff and the Jacksonville


       4        Fire and Rescue Department Emergency


       5        Preparedness Division.


       6             The comprehensive plan, consistent with


       7        what has long been state law already, includes


       8        policies aimed at directing residential


       9        development away from the coastal high hazard


      10        area and maintaining or lowering hurricane


      11        clearance times.  However, the current text in


      12        the plan is not sufficient to meet current state


      13        law and, in the view of the Planning and


      14        Development Department, to link land use and


      15        emergency preparedness planning.


      16             In 2006, state law changed and changed


      17        the definition of coastal high hazard from


      18        Category 1 Evacuation Zone to Storm Surge


      19        Zone 1.  It also allowed communities to change


      20        future land use map designations in the coastal


      21        high hazard if they adopt a level of service for


      22        out-of-county evacuation for a Category 5 storm


      23        event, adopt 12 hours for clearance to in-county


      24        shelter, and provide appropriate mitigation.


      25        Such mitigation can be the payment of money,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        contribution of land, or construction of shelter


       2        or transportation facilities.


       3             We view the change in law as an


       4        opportunity.  We've worked extensively with the


       5        Emergency Preparedness Division and staff of the


       6        Regional Council to draft a local mitigation


       7        program with citywide policies and site-specific


       8        policies.


       9             If I ask -- may I ask one of my colleagues


      10        to pass out -- we have a smorgasbord of options


      11        for you, and they were in your LUZ book.


      12             Exhibit A -- and Folks is passing them


      13        out -- is the detailed local mitigation plan


      14        that we have worked on with the Emergency


      15        Preparedness Division and the Regional Planning


      16        Council's staff.


      17             Exhibit B is the bare minimum that we must


      18        do in order to meet the state statute which


      19        requires that we update our comprehensive plan


      20        to include the new definition of coastal high


      21        hazard and a map reflecting the new boundaries


      22        of coastal high hazard by July 2008.


      23             The department has changed its position


      24        since the Local Planning Agency meeting because


      25        we've been informed that there's concern that





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        there has been insufficient stakeholder input


       2        into our draft.  As such, we currently recommend


       3        Exhibit C, which is marked with a purple sticky


       4        in the handout, which would be to adopt the map


       5        in the definition, update the hurricane


       6        clearance time in the comprehensive plan, and


       7        commit to establish a working group to consider


       8        these policies by January 1, 2009.


       9             We're committed, of course, to developing


      10        these policies sooner and would hope to be able


      11        to brief you on our progress at the adoption


      12        round of this text amendment.


      13             The working group, of course, will be able


      14        to use Exhibit A as a starting point in their


      15        consideration.


      16             Please note that without the additional


      17        policies, we can anticipate issues with the


      18        State if we try to change future land use map


      19        categories.  In fact, the last time we tried to


      20        do so -- the last two instances where we tried


      21        to do so where analysis showed that hurricane


      22        evacuation times were not maintained resulted in


      23        a finding of noncompliance by the State.


      24             So we urge the council committee to commit


      25        to working with us on this important issue, and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        we recommend your approval of revised Exhibit 1


       2        for 2007-578, Exhibit C as we have handed out


       3        today.


       4             Thank you for your attention.  I'm


       5        available for questions.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Thank you very


       7        much.


       8             Councilmember Shad has a question.


       9             MR. SHAD:  (Inaudible.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, we are.


      11             MR. SHAD:  Are we going to move Exhibit C


      12        or amend -- would it be amend to attach


      13        Exhibit C?


      14             MS. ELLER:  Correct.


      15             MR. CLARK:  Second.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


      17        amendment.


      18             Councilmember Clark, are you on the


      19        amendment or are you on the bill?


      20             MR. CLARK:  (Inaudible.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no discussion


      22        on the amendment, all in favor signify by saying


      23        aye.


      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


       3             MR. CLARK:  Move the bill as amended.


       4             MR. SHAD:  Second.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on


       6        2007-578 as amended.


       7             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and


       8        record the vote.


       9             (Committee ballot opened.)


      10             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


      11             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      17             (Committee ballot closed.)


      18             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      20        just approved 2007-578.


      21             Ms. Moehring, thank you very much for your


      22        assistance.


      23             Committee members, we are back on page 17.


      24        The following items will be deferred.  All the


      25        items on page 17:  2007-1244, -1245, -1246, and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        -1247.


       2             On page 18, all these items will be


       3        deferred:  2007-1248, -1249, -1250, and -1266.


       4             At the bottom of the page, item 65,


       5        2007-1305 will be second and rereferred.


       6             Page 19, all the items on that page are


       7        second and rereferred:  -1306, -1307, -1308,


       8        -1309, -1310.


       9             On page 20, all the items on that page will


      10        be second and rereferred:  2007-1311, -1312,


      11        -1340, -1341, and -1342.


      12             On page 21, the top item, 2007-1343, will


      13        be second and rereferred.


      14             The second item, item 77, we actually have


      15        a small amendment.  Can I have a motion on the


      16        amendment?


      17             MR. WEBB:  Move the amendment.


      18             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


      20        amendment.


      21             Can I have an explanation of the amendment,


      22        please.


      23             MS. ELLER:  To the Chair, -1344 and -1345


      24        actually have the same amendment.  These are


      25        both development agreements that are extending a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        previous development agreement.  And in the


       2        extension, they're actually pulling in another


       3        CCAS that has actually caught up in time to this


       4        one.


       5             So in order to have them in the proper form


       6        when you ultimately discuss them on January


       7        15th, the request came from the concurrency


       8        management office to hear these amendments


       9        tonight and read second and rerefer.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Seeing no questions


      11        on the amendment, all in favor signify by saying


      12        aye.


      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      15             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      17             Can I have a motion to second and rerefer,


      18        please.


      19             MR. YARBOROUGH:  So moved.


      20             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


      22        to second and rerefer.


      23             Open the ballot and record the vote.


      24             (Committee ballot opened.)


      25             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


       7             (Committee ballot closed.)


       8             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      10        amended and rereferred 2007-1344.


      11             2007-1345 has the same situation.


      12             MR. WEBB:  So moved.


      13             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      15        amendment, -1345.  All in favor signify by


      16        saying aye.


      17             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  All opposed.


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment carries.


      21             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Inaudible.)


      22             MR. SHAD:  Second.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second to second


      24        and rerefer -1345.


      25             Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        record the vote.


       2             (Committee ballot opened.)


       3             MR. CORRIGAN:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. CLARK:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MS. LEE:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MS. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. SHAD:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. WEBB:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  (Votes yea.)


      10             (Committee ballot closed.)


      11             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      13        rereferred 2007-1345.


      14             2007-1346 is second and rereferred.


      15             Page 22, the two items on that page, -1347


      16        and -1350, would be read second and rerefer.


      17             Unless somebody tells me differently, we've


      18        done all the items except 2007-1240.


      19             I will tell you that we typically take a


      20        break at 7 o'clock for our court reporter,


      21        Ms. Tropia, to take a break on her fingers


      22        before they fall off.


      23             In order for us to be able to begin this


      24        discussion and not have to stop ten minutes


      25        later, why don't we go ahead and take a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        ten-minute break now.


       2             If you need to use the restroom before we


       3        get started, they're located in the lobby, and


       4        there's vending machines out there as well.


       5             We will start back at about ten till 7:00.


       6        We are adjourned for ten minutes.


       7             (Brief recess.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Welcome back.


       9             Committee members, thank you for coming


      10        back.  Members of the audience, thank you for


      11        your cooperation.


      12             We have one bill left to consider tonight


      13        on the agenda.  It's 2007-1240.  It's a -- you


      14        know, I started to joke and open the public


      15        hearing and then hold these up (indicating) and


      16        say no speakers, close the public hearing, but


      17        that's not true.


      18             I will tell you that I know what we're


      19        getting ready to discuss here tonight is


      20        extremely serious and an emotional issue for


      21        many of the people in this room.  Whether you're


      22        on one side or the other, it's emotional.  I


      23        understand that and this committee understands


      24        that, and we're used to dealing with emotional


      25        items here on the council.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I will tell you that we're going to deviate


       2        from our normal procedure of considering a bill


       3        because I think it will help improve the debate


       4        that we're going to have.  I appreciate your


       5        cooperation as we do this.


       6             Let me talk to you a little bit about the


       7        ground rules.  If you are going to speak, you do


       8        need to turn in a blue speaker's card.  I think


       9        most of you got that message earlier.


      10             What we're going to do tonight -- and I've


      11        discussed this with both sides, as well as the


      12        District Council Representative, Bill Bishop --


      13        I am going to allow 20 minutes for each side to


      14        present their case.  We'll begin with the


      15        proponents and the sponsor of the bill and then


      16        follow that with the opposition.


      17             I've asked Councilmember Bishop to


      18        coordinate the speakers of the opposition so


      19        they can coordinate their 20-minute


      20        presentation.


      21             After we have the two presentations, we


      22        will then take additional public comments from


      23        members in the audience.


      24             I will tell you that we know that you may


      25        be an affected resident and don't like it and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        you want to express that.  We also know that if


       2        you are a user or supporter of the airport, you


       3        may want to express that.  You're welcome to do


       4        that.  I will tell you that the most efficient


       5        use of your time is to present new evidence to


       6        this committee for us to consider as we make our


       7        decision.


       8             Our council rules, especially at council


       9        meetings, state that we are not allowed to have


      10        public displays of support.  I'm going to -- in


      11        support of my committee, I'm going to waive that


      12        tonight for a few moments, and I'd like to start


      13        tonight by having the two sides stand up so we


      14        can have an indication of who's here in support


      15        or against the bill.


      16             So at this point, can I have everyone that


      17        is here in support of 2007-1240 to please stand.


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (Comply.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.  You


      20        can be seated.


      21             If I can now have everyone here that is in


      22        opposition of 2007-1240 to please stand.


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (Comply.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you very much.  You


      25        may be seated.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Now, as I go through these speaker cards,


       2        if you mainly wanted to be here to show your


       3        opposition or support of this bill, you may wave


       4        your hand and I will read for the record that


       5        you oppose or you support this bill.  You are


       6        welcome to come down and speak, but you do not


       7        have to.  You can wave your hand and I'll put


       8        your name and your preference in the record for


       9        you to save you coming down to the podium.


      10             I will also tell you that that, in my


      11        opinion, should be the last display of support


      12        or opposition to this bill tonight.  We will


      13        only accomplish what we're here tonight to do if


      14        we are all very professional and courteous to


      15        everyone else who's here.


      16             We're going to give each and every person


      17        in this room the opportunity to present their


      18        facts, and we want the time when you come up to


      19        present your facts to be treated the same way as


      20        everybody else was.  So I'd appreciate no


      21        clapping, no further standing up, no displays of


      22        support or opposition, and please respect each


      23        person that comes up here.


      24             I, as the former council president, know


      25        the importance of treating everybody fairly, and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        I will definitely enforce that tonight.  If it


       2        gets out of hand or one of my committee members


       3        or I don't feel like it's going the way it


       4        should, then we will recess.  Ms. Tropia always


       5        can use another break, and we'll recess and


       6        reestablish a quorum and then begin again from


       7        there.


       8             Before I call up the proponents and the


       9        opposition to do that, I'm going to also do one


      10        thing that we typically don't do.  Many times in


      11        a lengthy discussion, speakers refer to when you


      12        hear this report, you're going to hear this and


      13        you're going to think this and everything else.


      14        So try to avoid that tonight.


      15             I'm going to start by having the Planning


      16        Commission's report read to the committee


      17        members and followed by the Planning


      18        Department's report described to the committee


      19        members.  That way as you come up to speak, you


      20        can reference what has been presented rather


      21        than guessing what's going to be presented later


      22        in the evening.


      23             So with that said, I will begin with a


      24        report from the Planning Commission from


      25        Mr. Dylan Reingold, who's from the Office of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        General Counsel and is the OGC representative at


       2        the Planning Commission.


       3             MR. REINGOLD:  Thank you, sir.


       4             Just as a brief introduction, as you've


       5        requested, concerning the Planning Commission


       6        hearing, on December 13th the Planning


       7        Commission met, and I had a very lengthy


       8        discussion concerning this matter.  It was


       9        approximately a six-hour hearing, including


      10        testimony from the Planning Department, from


      11        JAA, from the Planning Department's experts,


      12        from JAA's experts.


      13             Additionally, Councilmembers Bishop and


      14        Yarborough were present, and we had technical


      15        discussions.  At that point, the public hearing


      16        was opened, and there was testimony from --


      17        neighborhood testimony in support and the rest


      18        of the neighborhood in opposition to the


      19        proposal.


      20             At the end of the discussion, there were


      21        some continual questions -- some additional


      22        questions from the Planning Commission members


      23        and of JAA staff and of the Planning


      24        Department.  And after the lengthy hearing, the


      25        Planning Commission voted six to two to oppose





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        this bill.


       2             Please let me know if there is anything


       3        else in addition you were looking for from the


       4        Planning Commission.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Reingold.


       6             Also, each committee member has a copy of


       7        the Planning Commission's transcript in front of


       8        them that they can reference to during the


       9        meeting.


      10             Are there any questions for Mr. Reingold on


      11        his report?


      12             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  If not, thank you very


      14        much.


      15             Now let's go to Mr. Thoburn for the


      16        Planning Department's recommendation.


      17             (Mr. Thoburn approaches the podium.)


      18             MR. THOBURN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      19             My name is Brad Thoburn, Planning


      20        Department, at 128 East Forsyth Street.


      21             As you know, the proposed text amendment


      22        before you would effectively allow the JAA to


      23        extend Runway 14/32 2,000 feet from its current


      24        4,000 to 6,000 feet.


      25             The reason this is considered as a text





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendment is because the comprehensive plan


       2        currently has language that limits or prohibits


       3        the extension of this runway.  That language was


       4        included in 1990 with the adoption of the


       5        comprehensive plan.


       6             I will tell you that in 2000, the then


       7        planning director issued a policy statement that


       8        the Planning Department would not support a


       9        future -- the extension of the runway.


      10             When we started this process, from a staff


      11        perspective doing the analysis, that was kind of


      12        an awkward thing for us to try to deal with


      13        because, in my opinion, it's the position of the


      14        Planning Department and myself, as the director,


      15        to ensure that we provide you with a sound


      16        recommendation based on the best available data


      17        and analysis.  We do not set policy, but we do


      18        make recommendations, and ultimately you are the


      19        policy makers.


      20             So with that in consideration, we didn't


      21        disregard that.  And I wanted to make it clear


      22        that that policy statement was out there and


      23        that it had been made but that we were making an


      24        evaluation based on what we believed was the


      25        best current available data and analysis.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Our staff analysis considered a number of


       2        things, including the consistency with


       3        applicable plans; overall community impact,


       4        including an economic impact; airport safety,


       5        both on and off the airport; and community


       6        impacts, with a special consideration of noise


       7        impacts and property values.


       8             In our evaluation, the most relevant


       9        document to our review was the Part 150 study


      10        commissioned by JAA, which was approved by the


      11        FAA in 2006.


      12             In addition, because this is an unusual


      13        issue for the department to take on, we enlisted


      14        the services of a technical consultant to help


      15        us evaluate the 150 study and relevant documents


      16        and help prepare the department's


      17        recommendation.


      18             We tried to go a little bit beyond our


      19        normal report and we provided you a great deal


      20        of information maps, and we had questions and


      21        answers from the JAA and our consultant.  We


      22        have the airport AICUZ maps.  We have pictures


      23        of airplanes that are in the classifications


      24        that are -- can be landing at Craig Field, and


      25        that will be part of the discussion





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        potentially.


       2             So we tried to provide as much background


       3        information as possible so you could make an


       4        informed decision.


       5             In the end, we ultimately are recommending


       6        approval of the amendment as substituted, and we


       7        have made some recommendations.  We've basically


       8        made three revisions that were proposed to


       9        the -- to the proposed text amendment that came


      10        from JAA.


      11             The JAA proposed a weight limitation of


      12        6,000 pounds maximum takeoff weight and a


      13        prohibition on serving as a certified commercial


      14        service airport in accordance with FAR,


      15        Part 139.


      16             The department further recommends language


      17        limiting operations to ARC-2 classified


      18        airplanes, and we believe that this effectively


      19        limits the current -- future operations to those


      20        which are currently allowed to operate at the


      21        airport.


      22             Specifically, Part 139 limits -- prohibits


      23        scheduled passenger service of over nine


      24        passengers, and unscheduled passenger service is


      25        allowed up to 31 passengers.  The C-2 class





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        airplanes limit landing speed to 141 knots, a


       2        wing span of less than 79 feet, and tail heights


       3        can be no greater than 30 feet.


       4             Secondly, the department has proposed that


       5        the JAA establish a noise monitoring program.


       6        And in case the noise impacts exceed the


       7        contours established in the 150 study, they will


       8        initiate appropriate mitigation.


       9             Further, the City can direct the JAA to


      10        conduct a 161 study, which is the formal process


      11        to limit noise and/or operational access in a


      12        manner that contains that noise, the noise


      13        contours within the boundaries of the Part 150


      14        study.


      15             Lastly, the department recommends


      16        prohibiting future extensions or additional


      17        runways, including a parallel runway.  And we do


      18        this because we believe that the comp plan sets


      19        a difficult process for amending it, and we


      20        believe that it should -- that that limitation


      21        in the future should be continued.


      22             The findings of the department that led


      23        to -- the key findings that led to our


      24        recommendation are that the extended runway does


      25        increase safety, both on and off Craig Field,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that the extension generally shifts the noise


       2        contour and reduces the residential -- the


       3        impact on residential properties around the


       4        airport.  It measurably reduces noise impacts in


       5        the Holly Oaks subdivision located north and


       6        west of the field.


       7             If you'll notice, one of the maps that you


       8        have is the noise contour change under the 150


       9        study, and it's a map that's got green and red


      10        shades.  The red shows where the noise contour


      11        is increasing, and the green shows where it


      12        decreases.


      13             So we really relied heavily in our


      14        recommendation on that 150 study and the


      15        assumptions that it's used based on


      16        professionally-accepted methodologies.  It was


      17        approved by the FAA, reviewed by our consultant,


      18        and they came to the same conclusion.


      19             In addition, just a couple of numbers here


      20        in terms of the reduction:


      21             In 2020, the projected noise contour will


      22        include less land in the 60-plus noise contour,


      23        reducing it from 401.6 acres to 349.3 acres, and


      24        there will be less projected population, from


      25        1,139 to 894, in the noise contour with the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        extension than without it.  Additionally, the


       2        extension generally does not increase capacity.


       3             However, there are planes that can land at


       4        Craig today that -- excuse me -- that can land


       5        at Craig today but choose not to.  There will be


       6        some increase in larger jet activity between now


       7        and 2020 with and without the extension, and the


       8        Part 150 study accounts for the increased


       9        activity and is appropriately reflected in the


      10        noise contours.


      11             Without the runway extension, Craig Field


      12        is anticipated to have roughly 210,000 flight


      13        operations in 2020.  With the extension, there


      14        is expected to be less than 215,000 flight


      15        operations.  And in that same time, jet aircraft


      16        operations, as a percentage of total operations,


      17        are expected to increase from 3 percent to


      18        7 percent.


      19             One of the other conclusions was that if


      20        you were really to effectively increase capacity


      21        at the airport, you need to add a parallel


      22        runway.  And so that's why we included that


      23        limit -- future limitation.


      24             One of the questions that came up in our


      25        discussions with Councilman Bishop was, you





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        know, the impact of noise and larger planes that


       2        choose not to use the airport but that may with


       3        a longer runway, and we believe that's


       4        appropriately accounted for in the Part 150


       5        study.


       6             However, in addition to that, our


       7        consultant provided some information to us that


       8        notes that while as a general rule, airplane


       9        noise and size are -- that as planes get larger,


      10        they tend to get louder, and that would be --


      11        you know, common sense would tell you that.


      12             However, they provided a listing of all the


      13        planes that are within the categories that can


      14        land or operate at Craig Field, and they broke


      15        them down by weight, from 12,500 pounds to below


      16        12,500 pounds and up to 70,000 pounds, and


      17        determined that actually in those categories,


      18        that the noise actually got -- as an average,


      19        was lower than the planes between 30- and 60-


      20        and 60- and 70,000 pounds.  So while there tends


      21        to be a correlation in this class of -- the


      22        weight classes, it actually does not bear that


      23        out.


      24             The Planning Department also considered


      25        economic impact on surrounding neighborhoods and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        property values.  There was some discussion


       2        about the impact -- the impact on property


       3        values adjacent to airports.  And there has been


       4        one study that was done in Raleigh that


       5        indicated, as a general rule, they found that


       6        airport property -- properties around airports


       7        tended to be about 3 or 4 percent less than they


       8        would in comparable homes in other areas and


       9        that noise disclosure actually added to the


      10        decrease in the property value.


      11             However, because the noise contour is


      12        actually shifting in a way that reduces the


      13        number of properties in the contour, we don't


      14        believe it has a measurable impact on property


      15        values and, arguably, could be positive.


      16             Finally, the department concluded that with


      17        the extension -- with the restrictions


      18        recommended in the substitute, we would increase


      19        safety, have a modest positive economic impact,


      20        and because it reduces the number of people and


      21        homes in the noise contour will not negatively


      22        impact surrounding communities.


      23             Thank you.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      25             We are now ready to get into the public





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hearing aspect of this.  Before I start the


       2        public hearing, I do see several current and


       3        previous elected officials.  I want to recognize


       4        them.  Senator Jim King is here tonight.


       5             Senator King, it's always a pleasure to see


       6        you.


       7             Former Councilmember Lake Ray and former


       8        Councilwoman Lynette Self I also saw earlier.


       9             If there are any other elected officials or


      10        previous elected officials, I welcome you back


      11        to our chamber.


      12             To my committee members, what I'd like to


      13        do tonight is I'd like to hear from the people,


      14        and my preference is for -- as the people come


      15        up and speak, if you have a question for a


      16        speaker, if you could jot down your question and


      17        save it for later until we finish the public


      18        hearing presentations, then we can take


      19        questions that way.


      20             Many times in an issue like this, your


      21        question is going to be answered by a speaker


      22        that follows the one that raises the question


      23        with you.  To aid you in that, I will repeat the


      24        speaker's name at the end of their comments so


      25        you'll know who you need to call back up for a





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        clarification later in the evening.  So if we


       2        can do that, I feel like it will help the public


       3        have an opportunity to speak to us more


       4        efficiently.


       5             With that said, I will open the public


       6        hearing on 2007-1240.  I will begin with the


       7        Jacksonville Airport Authority's presentation


       8        who will be presented -- Mr. Stewart, is --


       9             (Mr. J. Clark approaches the podium.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Clark, good evening and


      11        welcome.


      12             MR. J. CLARK:  Mr. Chairman and members of


      13        the LUZ committee, John Clark, 7890 Monterey Bay


      14        Drive, representing the Jacksonville Aviation


      15        Authority.


      16             Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge


      17        our board members that are in attendance tonight


      18        and ask our Vice Chairman, Mr. Jim McCollum, if


      19        he would open up with some comments.


      20             But Mary Burnett is one of our board


      21        members tonight, Dr. Chester Aikens is with us


      22        this evening, and Jack Demetree was with us and


      23        I think he stepped away, and John Falconetti.


      24             (Mr. McCollum approaches the podium.)


      25             MR. McCOLLUM:  Mr. Chairman, members of the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        committee, Jim McCollum, 4995 Spanish Oak


       2        Circle, Vice Chairman of the Jacksonville


       3        Aviation Authority.


       4             I would very briefly like to say two


       5        things.  One, I came before the committees and


       6        council -- seems like years ago -- I think weeks


       7        ago and said that our one major request was to


       8        let the issues be brought forth, let both sides


       9        have discussion and discourse, and let a


      10        decision be made rather than stopping the


      11        process.


      12             We have followed the process to this point


      13        collectively, and we thank you for doing so.  I


      14        think it's the right thing to do for the people


      15        of Jacksonville.


      16             Second and also important is that none of


      17        the current board members of the Jacksonville


      18        Aviation Authority were serving back before the


      19        Port Authority and Aviation Authority had their


      20        split.  In looking at the issues to be brought


      21        forth to you tonight on the extension of the


      22        Craig runway, this board sincerely feels that


      23        it's the right thing to do for the aviation


      24        community in Jacksonville, and that's why we


      25        brought it to you.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The second thing I'd like to say is we


       2        started this issue and this discourse with total


       3        respect for both sides and all sides in this,


       4        and we will end that -- however the vote comes


       5        out, we will still have total respect for


       6        everyone involved.


       7             Thank you.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. McCollum.


       9             MR. J. CLARK:  Mr. Chairman and members of


      10        the committee, thank you for this opportunity.


      11             I don't believe I will need 20 minutes


      12        because as the executive director and CEO of the


      13        Jacksonville Aviation Authority and working


      14        closely with the Planning Department through the


      15        process, I'm not sure that I could add any more


      16        to what has already been said, other than the


      17        fact that this process has been attempted and


      18        underway since 1963 with the first


      19        recommendations for an extension of a runway at


      20        Craig Airport.


      21             I will tell you that here we are in 2008,


      22        and we come before City Council yet again asking


      23        for the ability to amend the comprehensive plan,


      24        recognizing that the community and the city of


      25        Jacksonville continues to grow.  So if you go





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        back to 1963 and you fast forward to 2008,


       2        continuously our community grows.


       3             Aviation, airports are a part of the


       4        transportation infrastructure that support the


       5        community of Jacksonville, no different than a


       6        highway, no different than a street, no


       7        different than any public utility.  The airport


       8        system is a vital and critical part of the


       9        transportation infrastructure to support and


      10        sustain growth and life, quality of life in our


      11        community.


      12             So when you consider this, I would ask you


      13        to consider the fact that unless the City of


      14        Jacksonville believes that in 2008 going forward


      15        it was going to stop growing, then as a policy I


      16        would ask you to consider that the airport


      17        system should grow accordingly.


      18             There has continuously been requests to


      19        increase the ability of Craig Airport.  Why?  In


      20        our system there are four airports, and each one


      21        of those airports serve a particular role.  In


      22        the case of Craig, the role is to serve as the


      23        primary general aviation reliever airport to the


      24        system.


      25             What does that really mean?  What it really





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        means is that it is a facility that is designed


       2        and operated to relieve the general aviation


       3        traffic from our primary airport, which is


       4        Jacksonville International Airport.


       5             In order for this to be realized, we need


       6        to enhance the facilities at Craig, extending


       7        the runway, add safety, add operational


       8        efficiency, and at the same time reduces an


       9        impact of noise to the community going north and


      10        west of the airport, of Craig Airport.


      11             First and foremost, Craig operations


      12        continue to grow every year.  The jet activity


      13        at Craig continues to grow, and that's why we


      14        ask that you consider this.  Just like any other


      15        piece of infrastructure in this community where


      16        there's greater and greater demands, decisions


      17        have to be made to expand and extend those


      18        infrastructures to support the growth.


      19             We believe that, first and foremost, the


      20        extension of the runway provides enhanced safety


      21        of operations to a growing airport.  Secondly,


      22        it provides an efficiency to the overall


      23        system.  Thirdly, it provides growth opportunity


      24        to our community overall.


      25             I will stop there and be prepared to answer





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        any questions that you may have.


       2             Once again, we thank you for allowing the


       3        process to continue.  We think it has been a


       4        healthy discussion with the residents of the


       5        community and the council members that have been


       6        representing the community.


       7             I'm hoping at the end of this process that


       8        there is an ability to create a win/win


       9        situation, and a win/win is allowing an


      10        extension and requiring mitigation to reduce the


      11        impacts as much as possible on a growing


      12        community.


      13             Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Clark, is there anyone


      15        else from the Airport Authority that's going to


      16        speak?


      17             MR. J. CLARK:  That will be it.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you very much.


      19             MR. J. CLARK:  Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  We are now ready to hear


      21        from the opposition.  I asked Councilmember


      22        Bill Bishop to organize that.  I have a stack of


      23        cards of requested speakers.


      24             If it's okay with you, I'll just proceed


      25        with that.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. BISHOP:  Mr. Chairman, that's fine.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


       3             MR. BISHOP:  Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.


       4             There is one slight change in there.  We


       5        would request that Senator King be the first


       6        speaker this evening.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We can do that.  We


       8        will begin with Senator Jim King.


       9             (Senator King approaches the podium.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Senator King, good evening


      11        and welcome.


      12             SENATOR KING:  Thank you Mr. Chairman and


      13        members.  I really appreciate the opportunity


      14        that you've given all of us to come and speak


      15        our views.


      16             This is an issue that's been near and dear


      17        to the hearts of the people in Arlington for


      18        such a long time.  All the 22 years that I have


      19        served in this office, both House and Senate,


      20        this has been a burning bush item.  I can think


      21        of nothing that has galvanized the communities


      22        as much as this particular issue has.


      23             Quite frankly, the arguments that we're


      24        hearing today are the same arguments we heard in


      25        2000, the same arguments we heard in 1999, and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        I'm sure the same arguments that we heard in


       2        1973.  Extend the runway.  Things will get


       3        better.  Things will be safer.  Trust us.


       4             Well, you know, I was the chief negotiator


       5        of the agreement that existed between the then


       6        Port Authority and the neighborhoods in


       7        Arlington.  And I will tell you that everybody


       8        thought -- because I reported back to them at


       9        the time -- that we were assured that there


      10        would be a letter confirming that -- the


      11        Authority's decision not to extend the runway.


      12             There have been hundreds, perhaps even


      13        thousands of binding decisions made predicated


      14        upon that information, that Craig was what Craig


      15        is.  It was all it was going to be.  It was not


      16        going to be bigger.  You're not going to get


      17        more jets.  You're not going to get more this or


      18        that.  And we thought and I thought when we did


      19        it, that that would be the end.


      20             Now, since that time, we keep on hearing


      21        the arguments about safety.  Quite frankly,


      22        while it may be true that the planes will be


      23        higher and maybe even the noise quieter, the


      24        fact still remains there's going to be more


      25        planes.  And, statistically speaking, that in





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        itself, you know, gives rise to questions on


       2        behalf of the residents as to the safety


       3        factor.


       4             You know, I'm not going to take a whole lot


       5        of time because, first of all, I hope that


       6        brevity will be rewarded.  But, secondly, I also


       7        feel that there are a lot of people here, who,


       8        like me, live in that area and who have a right


       9        and a need to express their views.


      10             But I'd like to close by just saying this:


      11        I'd like to speak to you politician to


      12        politician.  In the last decade we've all been


      13        disappointed, whether you're Republican or


      14        Democrat, by the esteem or the lack of esteem


      15        that people hold the politicians of this country


      16        because of things that were promised and not


      17        delivered, because of things that were said that


      18        weren't meant, and by actions on the part of


      19        people after elections that refuted what they


      20        had promised as being a representative of


      21        government when they got elected.


      22             You all have a unique opportunity tonight.


      23        You have an opportunity to prove that you are a


      24        part of the new breed and that what was said on


      25        paper by people who they trusted then is of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        value now and that those citizens who felt


       2        strongly that they had won the fight should


       3        actually win the fight.


       4             I hope that when this is all over with


       5        you'll stand tall.  You have a great opportunity


       6        tonight.  You show to the people of Jacksonville


       7        and perhaps the people of the state that


       8        politics -- that you can be an honest person in


       9        politics, that you can bet on what people have


      10        said.  And I hope that you will take advantage


      11        of the opportunity.


      12             I've written every one of you a letter.


      13        You know exactly how strongly I feel about this


      14        issue.  I would hope that when the vote tonight


      15        is over with, you know, that our side will


      16        prevail.  I will also tell you, if that's not


      17        the case, that just like, you know,


      18        Mr. McCollum, you know, I understand that you


      19        have to do what you have to do.


      20             But for me it's clear.  We fought the good


      21        fight.  We got an agreement from the Port


      22        Authority.  We even had the Port Authority,


      23        under my insistence, write a letter confirming


      24        the fact that that would be the case.  We even


      25        had them say that they would give back the





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        $479,000 that was earmarked for acquisition of


       2        right-of-way because they had given up totally


       3        on the expansion of the runway.


       4             Now, you know, what part of that doesn't


       5        exist now?  What part of that could be just


       6        glazed over and said, well, that was then and


       7        this is now?


       8             I appreciate the time that you have given


       9        me.  I hope that the vote will be good for us,


      10        and I wish you all a very, very good new year.


      11             Thank you.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Senator King.


      13             The next speaker is Lad Hawkins.


      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      16             My name is Lad Hawkins.  I live at 1924


      17        Holly Oaks Lake Road West.


      18             I've worked as a professional planner in


      19        Jacksonville for over 38 years.  I provided


      20        expert witness testimony in the field of


      21        planning for 17 years.  I've lived in Holly Oaks


      22        for over 30 years.


      23             I'm currently the president of the GACC,


      24        which formed the CCC, which is the Craig


      25        Community Covenant, which is the organization we





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        formed to try and fight this battle.


       2             I'm on the board of directors of Jax Pride


       3        and the board of the Jacksonville Arboretum.


       4        I've been active in community and civic


       5        organizations for over 35 years.


       6             The planning facts are that for over


       7        17 years our comp plan has stated that runways


       8        at Craig Field shall not be extended.  Our comp


       9        plan was developed through community consensus


      10        and was based on sound planning principles.


      11             Our last two planning directors,


      12        Jeannie Fewell and Mike Saylor, opposed runway


      13        extensions at Craig Field.  The Arlington


      14        Beaches CPAC, as well as the southeast CPAC,


      15        have both unanimously voted to oppose extensions


      16        at Craig Field.  This is planning districts 1


      17        and 2, which is half the people in all of


      18        Jacksonville are in those two districts,


      19        unanimously opposed this.


      20             Now, this is the CPAC, citizen planning


      21        advice.  The planning advice is unanimous, don't


      22        do this.  There was a City Council resolution in


      23        2000, sponsored by ten council members.  JPA


      24        passed a resolution in 2001, which Mr. King just


      25        eloquently discussed.  All the presidents and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        past council members from Districts 2 and 3 are


       2        on record as opposing this extension.


       3             Last night, the Riverside Avondale


       4        Preservation met at a special meeting just to


       5        take a position to support the Greater Arlington


       6        Civic Council on this matter.


       7             What has changed since 1990?  Dames Point


       8        Bridge and State Road 9A have been built, so


       9        it's easier to get to JIA.  Cecil Field is now a


      10        civilian airport, and over 60,000 people have


      11        moved into the area surrounding Craig Field.


      12        All of these changes are strong planning-based


      13        reasons not to extend the runways at Craig


      14        Field.


      15             Holly Oaks is frequently mentioned as


      16        benefitting from this proposed runway


      17        extension.  I live in Holly Oaks.  I can tell


      18        you the people of Holly Oaks don't think this is


      19        a good idea.  I have walked door to door and


      20        talked to everybody in Holly Oaks, and I haven't


      21        talked to one person who said, whoopee, they're


      22        going to move the runway back.


      23             Holly Oaks is frequently mentioned over and


      24        over again, but nobody mentioned the Villages of


      25        Kernan, which is a PUD on the southeast end of





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        this runway.  It has 2,000 approved units, dead


       2        at the end of the runway, and they're going to


       3        move this runway a third of a mile closer to the


       4        Villages of Kernan.


       5             I don't know if you've looked at this plan,


       6        but there's that and there's 385,000 square feet


       7        of commercial dead at the end of the runway.


       8        This is the corner of Kernan and Atlantic, the


       9        northeast -- northwest quadrant.  Nobody talks


      10        about that.  They're talking about Kensington.


      11        They're talking about Holly Oaks.  This is a


      12        much bigger -- these are 20 units per acre,


      13        multifamily units right dead at the end of the


      14        runway, and they want to move it a third of a


      15        mile.  Is this safer?


      16             Please keep the promises made to our


      17        community and vote against this proposal.


      18             Thank you very much.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hawkins.


      20             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I was waiting for an


      22        announcement.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Are you Gerald?


      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, sir.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, ladies and


       2        gentlemen.


       3             I'm Gerald Robichaud, and I reside at 1222


       4        Raleigh Ridge Drive in Arlington.


       5             For more than 38 years I've been a


       6        professional aviator, first with the Navy and


       7        Coast Guard serving my country for 21 years, and


       8        then as a pilot for over 17 years at Northwest


       9        Airlines.  I've been trained in aviation safety


      10        and aviation accident investigation and served


      11        ten years on active duty in those positions.


      12             I have the unique distinction of having


      13        flown on every continent from Antarctica to


      14        Australia, Europe to Asia, Africa and the


      15        Americas.  I have seen airports big and small,


      16        and I come before you tonight to tell you that


      17        Craig Airport fulfills its mission admirably and


      18        safely.  It does not need to be enlarged to make


      19        it safer.


      20             The overall safety record at Craig is


      21        exemplary.  There have been few accidents of any


      22        kind, and the JAA cannot point to one in which a


      23        too short runway was the cause.  In the past ten


      24        years, I could find only one incident of a


      25        runway overrun, and that was caused by a pilot





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        making an instrument approach when the airport


       2        was fogged in below minimums.  He tried to land


       3        without a visual reference instead of going


       4        around as required.


       5             Even in that egregious case of pilot error,


       6        the aircraft would have stopped on pavement had


       7        the JAA been truly concerned about safety and


       8        installed a paved clearway at the end of the


       9        runway, something they've neglected for years.


      10             Numerous times Mr. Clark and Mr. Stewart


      11        have stood up here and said a longer runway is a


      12        safer runway.  Well, we don't dispute that, but


      13        unlimited pavement could add only a fraction of


      14        a percent of safety to runways or even


      15        highways.  But just like we haven't made


      16        Atlantic Boulevard ten lanes wide with every


      17        lane being a hundred feet, the FAA won't pave


      18        limitless runways.  The FAA says that Craig is


      19        perfectly safe for the aircraft that now operate


      20        there.


      21             In response to my written questions,


      22        Mr. Richard Owens of the regional office in


      23        Orlando, which controls Craig, said this about


      24        runway length, and I quote:  Federal runway


      25        length requirements provide for the safe





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        operation of aircraft for which the runways were


       2        designed.  Adding additional runway length does


       3        not appreciably increase the safety of


       4        operations, end quote.


       5             When Mr. Owen was asked whether the few


       6        accidents at Craig justify lengthening the


       7        runway, his one-word answer was "no."


       8             "Safety" is an emotional word which the JAA


       9        is using as their smoke screen to sell this plan


      10        amendment.  Again, when asked, the FAA rep said,


      11        quote, we don't build runways longer for safety,


      12        end quote.  In fact, the newer, faster jets


      13        brought in by a longer runway mixing with the


      14        customary student-operated Cessnas can be a


      15        formula for disaster.  The JAA knows this.  They


      16        know they can't get Federal money to make Craig


      17        safer because that's a specious argument.  They


      18        can only get it to make Craig suitable for


      19        bigger aircraft.


      20             These past four months you've been


      21        presented by the JAA with an incessant drum beat


      22        of the word "safety," "safety," "safety" without


      23        the support of facts to show a safety problem.


      24             In my professional opinion, extending the


      25        runway will only increase the size, variety, and





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        speed of aircraft using Craig without a


       2        likelihood that such operations will be any


       3        safer.


       4             Thank you very much.  Happy new year to


       5        everybody.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Robichaud.


       7             I show eight minutes and twenty seconds


       8        left for the presentation.


       9             Next on my list I have Hank Oltmanns,


      10        followed by Barry Bobek, followed by Lake Ray.


      11             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      12             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Mr. Chairman, members of


      13        the committee, thank you very much for giving us


      14        this opportunity.


      15             My name is Henry Oltmanns, better known as


      16        Hank, except when I'm in trouble with my wife or


      17        with my mother who's long since past.  My


      18        address is 12501 Masters Ridge Drive.


      19             I would like to bring up an issue of


      20        workforce housing.  I am a director of the


      21        National Association of Realtors Federal Housing


      22        Committee, a Florida Association of Realtors


      23        director, and member of the Attainable Workforce


      24        Housing Subcommittee, Northeast Florida Regional


      25        Council Affordable Housing -- Affordable





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Workforce Housing Task Force member, Northeast


       2        Florida Association of Realtors member, and


       3        president at this time.


       4             I have sent a letter to each of you on


       5        October 19th that is relevant to some remarks


       6        I'm going to be making here.  I've also been


       7        involved in a program development that our mayor


       8        is presenting to the employees of the City.


       9        It's a program of home ownership made easy, and


      10        it's designed for workforce -- attainable


      11        workforce housing.


      12             Jacksonville has a serious shortage of


      13        attainable workforce housing, and there's an


      14        unintended consequence of 2007-1240.  It's been


      15        mentioned briefly earlier, but I'd like to go


      16        just a little bit deeper.