1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Thursday, January 3,
7 2008, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.
14 RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.
MIA JONES, Committee Member.
15 E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
ART SHAD, Committee Member.
16 JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
17
ALSO PRESENT:
18
BILL BISHOP, City Council Member
19 RAY HOLT, City Council Member.
BRAD THOBURN, Director, Planning Dept.
20 JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.
21 KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
22
JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
23 MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
24 - - -
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 January 3, 2008 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, everyone.
5 We are about ready to start the Land Use
6 and Zoning Committee meeting for Thursday,
7 January 3rd, a rare Thursday night Land Use and
8 Zoning Committee meeting.
9 We do have a new procedure, a policy in
10 effect based on some legislation passed by the
11 council at the last meeting last year, which is
12 in regards to lobbyist registration.
13 If you are here tonight to speak on a bill
14 and you have a financial gain in the bill,
15 either paid directly by a corporation or entity
16 or the lobby or will have a financial gain, you
17 must fill out a lobbyist registration form prior
18 to speaking.
19 The forms are located right over here on
20 that side. So please make sure you come up and
21 fill it out and turn it in to the basket so we
22 can have it on the record prior to your speaking
23 tonight.
24 If you are writing it when I call your name
25 and have not finished writing it, I understand
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 that and will allow you to speak and then
2 continue to write, but you must have it turned
3 in or at least started prior to you speaking
4 tonight.
5 That will be a regular thing here at the
6 City Council. So if you can pass it on to your
7 friends and neighbors and let them know if
8 they're coming down here and they're to be
9 compensated or have a financial gain, that they
10 need to register with the City.
11 We appreciate it.
12 If you'd like to do it ahead of time, you
13 can always contact Cheryl Brown, our council
14 director, and she'll be happy to help you with
15 that process. We appreciate your cooperation.
16 Okay. We're ready to get started. Let me
17 let everybody know the committee members that
18 are here tonight. We have Councilmember Webb,
19 Councilwoman Lee, Councilman Clark. I'm
20 Chairman Michael Corrigan. We have
21 Vice Chairman Clay Yarborough, and we have
22 Councilmember Art Shad. Councilwoman Mia Jones
23 should be joining us shortly.
24 We have a number of bills tonight to take
25 up. A number of you may be here for item number
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 54, located on page 16, which is the Craig Field
2 extension. I will tell you that that will be
3 taken up towards the end of our action items on
4 our agenda tonight and will be the last item we
5 take up. We do not anticipate a heavy burden
6 before that, but we want to make sure that we
7 allocate plenty of time for that issue to be
8 heard, so it will be taken up at the end of our
9 agenda.
10 We do have a visiting councilmember, former
11 councilmember, that's here with us tonight that
12 I saw on the way in, Councilmember
13 Warren Alvarez. I believe Councilmember
14 Warren Alvarez had an item. Out of respect for
15 him, in his adjustment to retirement, so he can
16 feel like he's still involved in the council
17 process, committee members, let's go to page 12
18 and take up his item first.
19 It's page 12, item 39, 2007-1193. We will
20 open that public hearing.
21 Seeing no speaker cards on -1193, we will
22 close that public hearing.
23 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 on 2007-1193.
2 Seeing no discussion on that bill, open the
3 ballot and record the vote.
4 (Committee ballot opened.)
5 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
7 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 approved 2007-1193.
15 Councilman Alvarez, always a pleasure to
16 see you. Come back and see us often. You can
17 stay tonight if you'd like.
18 MR. ALVAREZ: My condolences.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: For those in the audience
20 that don't know, Councilmember Alvarez was a
21 standing councilmember on the LUZ Committee for
22 a number of years. It's great to see him back
23 here tonight.
24 Okay. Let's go back to the front and go
25 through a number of items that are going to be
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 deferred or rereferred.
2 We'll begin with item number 1, 2005-718.
3 We'll open that public hearing.
4 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
5 public hearing with no further action.
6 Items 2 and 3, 2005-1161 and 2005-1228, are
7 both deferred.
8 Top of page 3, item 2005-1399. We'll open
9 that public hearing.
10 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
11 public hearing until January 15th with no
12 further action.
13 Item 5 and 6, 2006-24 and 2006-220, are
14 both deferred.
15 Bottom of page 3, 2006-360. We'll open
16 that public hearing.
17 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
18 public hearing on May 6th, 2008.
19 Top of page 4, 2006-520 is deferred.
20 Item 9, 2006-658. We'll open that public
21 hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
23 public hearing until April 1st.
24 Item 10, 2007-144. We'll open that public
25 hearing.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
2 public hearing till -- continued till March
3 4th.
4 Item 11, 2007-145. We'll open that public
5 hearing.
6 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that one
7 till March 4th.
8 Top of page 5. Item 12, 2007-384, is
9 deferred.
10 Item 13, 2007-566. We'll open that public
11 hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
13 hearing.
14 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion.
16 Do I have a second on the bill?
17 MR. WEBB: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on
19 2007-566.
20 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.).
21 THE CHAIRMAN: It's number 13 on the
22 agenda.
23 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
24 record the vote.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 just approved 2007-566.
10 Item 14, 2007-578. We'll open that public
11 hearing. We have no speakers, but we do have
12 Margo Moehring from the Planning Department.
13 This is a semiannual text amendment
14 concerning coastal high hazard and hurricane
15 evacuation.
16 Is Ms. Moehring here or is she -- she's not
17 in the room. We're going to hold off on that
18 one. We'll get back to that one in a few
19 minutes.
20 Mr. Crofts, you can let me know when she
21 gets here. We'll go back to it.
22 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Committee members, turn with
24 me to the top of page 6. 2007-581 is deferred.
25 (Ms. Jones enters the proceedings.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: 2007-659. We'll open that
2 public hearing.
3 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
4 public hearing.
5 Item 17 and 18, 2007-803 and 2007-835, are
6 both deferred.
7 We are on the top of page 7, 2007-919. We
8 have -- we will -- this is an appeal. We're
9 going to follow the standard appeal process
10 we've been using in this committee. We
11 typically allow ten minutes to each side, unless
12 Councilmember Holt has additional information on
13 that.
14 Is that okay with you?
15 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: If I can call on
17 Councilmember Holt before I open the public
18 hearing.
19 Do you want to open the public hearing
20 first or after?
21 MR. HOLT: Go ahead.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're going to open
23 the public hearing. I only have one speaker
24 card, Charles Mann.
25 Mr. Mann, come forward, please.
Diane M.
Tropia,
10
1 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
2 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman and members of the
3 committee, Charles Mann,
4 representing the landowner.
5 This item has been before you before. It
6 was a height appeal. It was a height appeal to
7 a denied minor modification. It was passed by
8 this committee to raise the height of the
9 building on
10 compromised at this meeting to 42 feet.
11 Since then, in talking with the honorable
12 Councilman Ray Holt, we have decided -- we've
13 asked for it to be rereferred from council back
14 to this committee so that we could adjust the
15 height to 40 feet, which is agreeable to my
16 client.
17 Again, we would appreciate your support on
18 this as we had before.
19 Thank you very much.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Councilmember Holt.
22 I have no further speakers. I'll close the
23 public hearing and call on Councilmember Holt.
24 You can stay seated.
25 MR. HOLT: I just wanted to say that I
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 agree with Mr. Mann.
2 We had issues with this and we have worked
3 through them, and I feel like this is probably
4 the best compromise we can come to at 40 feet.
5 So I'm not going to oppose this at this point,
6 and I would appreciate if the committee would
7 support it.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So based on that,
10 what I hear you saying is you would support an
11 amendment to change the maximum height to
12 40 feet and grant the appeal?
13 MR. HOLT: Forty feet (inaudible).
14 MR. MANN: Yes, sir, that's correct.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Do I have a motion?
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move it.
17 MR. CLARK: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
19 on the amendment. All in favor of the amendment
20 signify by saying aye.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill as amended.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MS. JONES: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on
3 2007-919 as amended.
4 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
5 record the vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
9 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
10 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
16 approved 2007-919.
17 MR. MANN: Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Mann.
19 Councilman Holt, we appreciate you working
20 that out. It was a good job. Thank you.
21 Okay. Item number 20, 2007-928, is
22 deferred. 2007-984 is deferred. 2007-1011 is
23 deferred.
24 We're now on the top of page 8. 2007-1046
25 is deferred. 2007-1047 is deferred.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 2007-1048. We'll open that public
2 hearing.
3 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
4 public hearing with no further action.
5 Top of page 9, 2007-1051 is deferred.
6 2007-1061. We'll open that public
7 hearing.
8 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
9 hearing with no further action.
10 Item 28, 2007-1077. We'll open that public
11 hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
13 public hearing with no further action.
14 Committee members, top of page 10,
15 2007-1078 is an accompanying bill to the
16 previous one. We'll open that public hearing.
17 Seeing no further speakers, we'll continue
18 the public hearing with no further action.
19 Item 30, 2007-1083, is deferred.
20 Item 31, 2007-1085. We'll open that public
21 hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
23 public hearing with no further action.
24 We're on the bottom of page 10, item 32,
25 2007-1086. Open that public hearing.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
2 public hearing.
3 Top of page 11, 2007-1121. We'll open that
4 public hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
6 public hearing.
7 Item 34, 2007-1125. Open that public
8 hearing.
9 Seeing no one wishing to speak, we will
10 continue that public hearing with no further
11 action.
12 Item 35, 2007-1126, is deferred.
13 Item 36, 2007-1190. We'll open that public
14 hearing.
15 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
16 hearing.
17 We have an amendment.
18 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
21 amendment.
22 Mr. Crofts, explain the amendment, please.
23 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman and members of
24 the committee, the amendment consists of five
25 conditions and they are as follows:
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 Number 1, "The developer shall be subject
2 to the original written description dated
3 October 12th, 2007."
4 Number 2, "The developer shall be subject
5 to the original site plan dated January 10th,
6 2005."
7 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
8 to the original legal description dated October
9 22nd, 2007."
10 Number 4, "Monument signs shall be at least
11 100 feet apart. Additional wall signs shall
12 comply with section 656.1303, subparagraph C,
13 sub-subparagraph 1 and 2 of the zoning code."
14 Number 5, "The developer shall be subject
15 to the Development Services memorandum dated
16 October 31st, 2007, the Transportation Planning
17 Division memorandum dated November 14th, 2007,
18 and the Florida Department of Transportation
19 letter dated March 11th, 2007, or as otherwise
20 approved by the Planning and Development
21 Department."
22 Thank you, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Any questions on that report?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no discussion on the
2 amendment, all in favor of the amendment signify
3 by saying aye.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
8 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
9 MS. LEE: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
11 on 2007-1190 as amended.
12 Councilmember Webb.
13 MR. WEBB: I just need to disclose ex-parte
14 communication on December 5th at 1 p.m. I had
15 an approximately 30-minute meeting with
16 Susan Green, who's an agent for the developer.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
19 Any questions for Councilmember Webb?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none and seeing no
22 other discussion on the bill, open the ballot
23 and record the vote.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2007-1190.
10 Committee members and members of the
11 audience, turn to the top of page 12,
12 2007-1191. We'll open that public hearing.
13 We have -- seeing no speakers, we will
14 continue that public hearing with no further
15 action.
16 Item 38, 2007-1192. We'll open that public
17 hearing. We have two speakers. We have
18 Ms. Penny Thompson and Mr. Mack McCuller.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon,
21 Mr. Chairman.
22 Mack McCuller, 225 Water Street,
23 representing Shands Jacksonville Foundation.
24 Penny Thompson is here. You can ask any
25 questions of her if you'd like, but we're here
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 to answer any questions.
2 I would say this is a conventional rezoning
3 of three residential lots in the Springfield
4 area to accommodate a medical clinic, hospital
5 use, and is on a PBF underlying land use. All
6 surrounding it is PBF zoning. So it's a fairly
7 straightforward application.
8 I'll be here to answer any questions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Ms. Thompson, do you want to speak or just
11 questions only?
12 MS. THOMPSON: No. I would just add that
13 if there are any questions, I'd be happy to
14 answer them.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Give me your address for the
16 record, please.
17 MS. THOMPSON: Penny Thompson, vice
18 president of public affairs, Shands
19 Jacksonville.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Councilwoman Jones.
22 MS. JONES: I'd just like to declare
23 ex-parte communications with Ms. Thompson this
24 afternoon immediately following the LUZ agenda
25 meeting. I don't remember what time it was, but
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 it was in the conference room.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Councilmember
3 Yarborough.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 Also ex-parte with Ms. Thompson this
6 afternoon in my office at 4:30 to discuss the
7 classification of the rezoning.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Councilmember Webb.
11 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 As well, I'd like to disclose ex-parte
13 communication with Ms. Thompson at approximately
14 4 o'clock this afternoon in my office.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Councilmember Clark.
17 MR. CLARK: Yes. I'd also like to say that
18 I had a conversation with Ms. Thompson this
19 afternoon in my office.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
21 That is all the ex-parte I see.
22 Oh, I'm sorry. Councilmember Lee.
23 MS. LEE: I received a call as well. I
24 have a question, though, of the gentleman.
25 What is your name again, sir?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. McCULLER: Mack McCuller.
2 MS. LEE: Mr. McCuller stated that
3 everything around there was PBF. I was just
4 interested in -- when did all of that change? I
5 know some of the homes were sold, like
6 Mrs. Davis and those homes were sold a while
7 back.
8 MR. McCULLER: There may be some
9 grandfathered uses. If you look at the zoning
10 map and the staff report, you'll see there's a
11 corner that goes off into RMD-D zoning. The
12 rest of the zoning around it is PBF-2 or -1.
13 MS. LEE: So everything in that particular
14 block has moved from residential, any type of
15 residential?
16 MR. McCULLER: I wouldn't say the entire
17 block. To the west, there's an RMD-E and RMD-B
18 along Louisiana Street.
19 MS. LEE: Okay. Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilwoman Lee.
21 I don't see any other speakers. So seeing
22 none, does the Planning Department have anything
23 for us?
24 MR. CROFTS: (Shakes head.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Open the ballot and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 record the vote.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
4 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
5 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
11 approved 2007-1192.
12 Thank you all.
13 We already did item 39.
14 We are now on item 40, 2007-1194. Open
15 that public hearing.
16 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
17 hearing.
18 I will entertain a motion. I will note
19 that the Planning Department has issued a report
20 of denial on this, just for your information.
21 Do I have motion -- an amendment?
22 (Inaudible discussion.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly or Mr. Crofts,
24 could you give us the reason for the denial?
25 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Through the Chair to the committee, this is
2 a waiver of road frontage request to reduce the
3 amount of required road frontage from
4 eighty feet to zero feet.
5 Staff is of the opinion that this is not in
6 the public interest and essentially represents
7 circumventing the subdivision regulations and
8 would be detrimental to the public health and
9 safety and make it difficult for addressing and
10 911 to locate the property.
11 The subject property was originally split
12 off of another piece of property in 1997, and so
13 we feel that it's really a self-imposed hardship
14 that the applicant created himself. And they
15 had the ability and constructive knowledge of
16 the code at the time and the laws were the same,
17 so we feel that this is inappropriate and would
18 circumvent the intent of the code.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilwoman Jones -- it's
20 in Councilwoman Lee's district. She can go
21 first.
22 Councilwoman Lee.
23 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 I haven't talked to anybody about this. No
25 one has talked to me.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Would you like us to defer
2 it a cycle so you can talk to somebody?
3 MS. LEE: Is the applicant present?
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Is the applicant on
5 2007-1194 in the audience?
6 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see anybody waving
8 their hand.
9 MS. LEE: Well, I guess my question is,
10 Mr. Chairman -- there are two recommendations
11 here. Am I in sync with that? Amend and move
12 to grant the waiver, then there's one to deny
13 the waiver.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. We have to do one or
15 the other. As a committee, we have to do one or
16 the other.
17 MS. LEE: Okay. So I guess, if I could --
18 I'm not familiar with this portion of the
19 process right here -- why is the move to grant
20 if the Planning Department recommends it?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: They give us the option as a
22 committee to make the amendment either way we
23 want to make it.
24 MS. LEE: This just pertains to the
25 amendment only?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. What the amendment
2 does is actually recommends denial or recommends
3 approval is what the amendment is.
4 MS. LEE: Right.
5 Mr. Chairman, I would -- I mean, if the
6 Planning Department has moved to -- has made a
7 motion -- or recommendation, rather, to deny, I
8 would like an opportunity to maybe just converse
9 with them a little more in detail rather than to
10 pose a lot of questions at this time. Inasmuch
11 as the applicant isn't present, I would ask that
12 you defer it, please. Then maybe somebody will
13 get in touch with me.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm happy to do that.
15 Let me go back and continue the public
16 hearing instead of closing the public hearing,
17 and we'll just continue it. So that way if you
18 get a chance to speak with the Planning
19 Department or the applicant, we can bring it up
20 next cycle without readvertising it. Is that
21 okay?
22 MS. LEE: Okay.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Good.
24 So on 2007-1194, we will open and continue
25 that public hearing with no further action
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 today.
2 Councilwoman Jones.
3 MS. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 Just two quick questions.
5 One, the applicant was notified that the
6 recommendation was for denial? If they don't
7 come to the meeting, we make a decision and --
8 MR. KELLY: That's correct. The reports
9 are sent out to the applicant prior to the
10 meeting.
11 MS. JONES: Okay. Did anybody verify that
12 it's the same owner that -- you said that
13 construction had taken place on it at one point
14 and that it was subdivided or something to that
15 effect. Is it the same owner or is it a
16 generation removed or a new owner?
17 MR. KELLY: My understanding, through the
18 Chair to Councilmember Jones, is that the 5-acre
19 parcel that's being split off now was owned at
20 one time by the larger tract of land, but now
21 it's under separate ownership.
22 MS. JONES: Okay. Thank you very much.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Councilwoman Lee.
25 MS. LEE: I'd like to ask a question of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Mr. Crofts -- or Mr. Kelly.
2 Once the person is notified, is it common
3 practice for them to call back and ask why or
4 did we get a response back from the applicant?
5 MR. KELLY: In this instance, we did not
6 hear back from the applicant after we had faxed
7 the reports. There may have been a conflict
8 with the holidays. And so we would, again, you
9 know, go along with your wishes to continue the
10 meeting, and we'll contact the applicant
11 directly to make sure that they are aware of the
12 recommendation.
13 MS. LEE: Now, you said you faxed it or you
14 mailed it?
15 MR. KELLY: Typically, we fax it.
16 MS. LEE: To the applicant?
17 MR. KELLY: Correct.
18 MS. LEE: You're, then, aware that that
19 person has a fax machine?
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I can clarify a little bit.
21 I've learned from Legislative Services that
22 several days ago the payment for the
23 advertisement had not been received. And they
24 contacted her and the advertisement was paid,
25 and they were told that it was going to be
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
27
1 brought up tonight. By paying the
2 advertisement, it could be brought up tonight.
3 MS. LEE: I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.
4 I guess my inquiry is, you know, even if a
5 person has a fax machine, are we aware that
6 they're going to pick it up or -- when things go
7 out certified, then we're assured someone has
8 received it. In a case when you're denying
9 anybody, is that a requirement? I'm just making
10 an inquiry. Is that how you normally do it?
11 MR. KELLY: No. It's typically done as a
12 courtesy to the applicant. Really the burden
13 would be on them to contact us. But we do fax
14 basically all of the reports out to the agents
15 and the applicants prior to -- about a week
16 prior to the meeting.
17 MS. LEE: What happens when a person
18 doesn't have a fax machine?
19 MR. KELLY: We can either e-mail it
20 directly to them -- they have that option if
21 they filled out an e-mail address as opposed to
22 a fax machine.
23 MS. LEE: And if one doesn't have a
24 computer, then you mail it?
25 MR. KELLY: We would call them directly
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
28
1 basically and ask what their preference is, if
2 they'd like to come in and pick it up or we
3 could mail it to them.
4 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I was listening to
5 the question that was asked, and that's why
6 maybe in the future we might want to just look
7 at making sure -- Ms. Jones asked the question,
8 did the applicant -- was the applicant
9 notified. And if there's no sure way to know
10 that they received it, maybe this might be
11 something we could look at in the future.
12 Because we could all be applicants and, you
13 know, not knowing -- even though I guess I would
14 be responsible in making sure my stuff got
15 approved or disapproved, in the real scheme of
16 things that doesn't always happen. Everybody
17 doesn't have a computer and everybody doesn't
18 have a fax machine. Certification of letters
19 usually works.
20 That's all.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're happy to look
22 at that and make sure -- and when this comes up
23 in two weeks and the applicant is there, I'd be
24 curious to see what they received and how they
25 received it or whatever. I'm fine with that.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 But for tonight, we'll just open and continue
2 2007-1194.
3 Committee members, we're on top page of 13,
4 2007-1195. We'll open that public hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
6 public hearing. I need a motion to either grant
7 or deny the waiver.
8 MS. JONES: Move to grant.
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to grant
11 the waiver. All in favor of the amendment
12 signify by saying aye.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Amendment carries.
17 MS. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on
20 2007-1195, which will grant the waiver.
21 Seeing no discussion on the bill, open the
22 ballot and record the vote.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 approved 2007-1195.
10 2007-1196. We'll open that public
11 hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
13 public hearing with no further action.
14 2007-1215. We'll open that public
15 hearing. We have one speaker,
16 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
17 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Chairman, I'm putting in a
18 card for this too.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
20 Mr. Hainline, how are you?
21 MR. HAINLINE: I'm fine, Mr. Chairman.
22 My name is
23 Boulevard.
24 This is a development agreement which seeks
25 an extension of the reservation time for
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 available concurrency capacity. You-all have
2 granted many of these over the years. This
3 applicant obtained available concurrency
4 capacity for a retail portion of his overall
5 development. That retail portion won't come
6 until the end of the development, so he needs an
7 extension, an extended reservation of the
8 capacity, which is routinely done through a
9 development agreement.
10 Mr. Harden asked some questions. We've
11 been talking all afternoon. I'm not sure
12 whether it's questions so much about our
13 development agreement as it is about what the
14 City is doing with a fair share contract which a
15 client of his is seeking down the street, but I
16 guess what I'll do is just reserve time for
17 rebuttal for what Mr. Harden might say.
18 This development agreement, we worked with
19 your staff and with your lawyers in seeking and
20 applying for this. The staff is recommending
21 approval. Certainly if there are any questions
22 about the application or the procedures, your
23 lawyers and your staff are well-versed on that,
24 and I would urge you to consult with them.
25 I'd like to save the rest, I guess, for
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 rebuttal, depending upon what issues Mr. Harden
2 raises.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 Paul Harden.
6 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
7 MR. HARDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.
9 Mr. Hainline's description of where we are
10 in the process is -- doesn't complete the story,
11 if you will, as Paul Harvey might say.
12 The exact same CCAS and a development
13 agreement based on it was heard by this council
14 a year ago -- almost a year ago. The exact same
15 CCAS was rejected seven to nothing by the LUZ
16 Committee. Councilman Shad, Ms. Jones,
17 Mr. Clark were all on the LUZ. It was
18 unanimously denied by the Land Use and Zoning
19 Committee. It then went to the full council,
20 and the full council, by unanimous vote,
21 rejected it. This is an attempt to basically
22 start over.
23 My client is next in line for the trips.
24 Obviously, we have an interest in what happens
25 on the thing.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 But those of you who are on the committee
2 will recall that there were really two issues
3 last time considered. One is the length of time
4 that the reservation had been held, saying we're
5 getting ready to come do something. There were
6 extensions granted for about two years.
7 Finally, they came in at our insistence.
8 But then the key issue, though, was how the
9 client got to where they were with their
10 zoning.
11 One of the issues you're required to
12 consider by law is whether or not the zoning
13 complies with the comp plan. We believe it does
14 not comply with the comp plan. It's an AGR
15 zoning for a large number of single-family
16 trips, a shopping center, additional office
17 uses, and it's in the form of a rural village.
18 A rural village has specific requirements.
19 It doesn't meet the requirements. One of them
20 is it has to be 500 acres. This is 380 acres.
21 Secondly, it has to be on a collector road.
22 It's not on a collector road.
23 There were a series of issues related to
24 whether or not it met the comp plan. Based on
25 that explanation and based on the law, this
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
34
1 committee, in its own formation, unanimously
2 rejected the CCAS.
3 We think that the trips should have then
4 gone back in and my client should have been able
5 to take advantage of it and move forward.
6 What's basically happened is they brought
7 the issue to council, the council denied it, and
8 this is starting over again. We don't think
9 that's the way the process should go forward.
10 We think that this committee should uphold
11 the ruling of the LUZ Committee when you
12 considered it before. And, respectfully, we
13 request that you reject this request for a
14 development agreement.
15 It is a privilege, not a right, and there
16 are requirements in order to meet that
17 development agreement. The LUZ Committee before
18 felt like they didn't meet those requirements,
19 and they still don't today.
20 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Mr. Hainline, I believe you have about a
23 minute and a half of rebuttal.
24 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
25 MR. HAINLINE: Okay. I do have a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
35
1 chronology that I would like to pass around.
2 The first thing I would like to say is if
3 anyone has any questions about the procedures we
4 followed or any concerns that you don't think
5 can be heard tonight, we would ask that this
6 matter be deferred to the next LUZ meeting.
7 There's some things that Mr. Harden said that I
8 would like to address, however.
9 What is before you tonight is very, very
10 different than what was before this council a
11 year ago. It's radically scaled back. A year
12 ago we had 749 --
13 Do you need a copy?
14 MR. HARDEN: Yes.
15 MR. HAINLINE: Here.
16 (Tenders document.)
17 MR. HARDEN: Thank you.
18 MR. HAINLINE: A year ago, we had 749
19 residential units in it, in addition to what we
20 have now. We had another 5,000 square feet of
21 retail, which is not in it now. We radically
22 scaled it back to be only 40,000 square feet of
23 retail, which is what the original council, many
24 years ago, when this PUD was approved, really
25 wanted in there and actually added in there.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 This 40,000 square feet was deemed as
2 important by the original -- by the approvers of
3 the original PUD for this, and that's what we're
4 seeking the extended capacity on here today.
5 If you have any questions about procedures
6 or what was followed in transitioning from the
7 denial last May to where we are now, you should
8 seek -- you should talk to your lawyers and your
9 staff as to whether all portions were followed
10 because they were, and they will confirm that.
11 Secondly, Mr. Harden's fair share contract
12 down the street is not next in line behind us.
13 It won't benefit from this because Mr. Harden's
14 fair share, which is behind us in line, has
15 locked in its dollar amount. Its dollar amount
16 is 684,000.
17 When Mr. Harden paid the $500 for that fair
18 share, under your code, Section 355.305(a), once
19 he pays the $500, he locks into that amount no
20 matter what facts change after that. In fact,
21 when they paid their $500, they specifically
22 said in the letter, "We wish to lock in this
23 amount." So he will not benefit from any denial
24 of this development agreement.
25 Thank you.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Councilmember Yarborough.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 Just a few quick questions.
5 Mr. Harden mentioned that, I believe, you
6 and Mr. Clark, Ms. Jones, and Mr. Shad were
7 involved last year when something related to
8 this --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Not me. I was on the
10 council, but I wasn't on LUZ.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: My first question is --
12 this is all new to me still -- can anybody weigh
13 in on that?
14 I'd be curious as to what some of the
15 senior members might have to offer on it.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I've got Councilman Shad and
17 then Councilmember Clark.
18 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
19 My recollection was -- going back, the
20 original rezoning was much discussed, and it was
21 a close vote on the original rezoning. When it
22 came back in front of us, you know, personally,
23 I still had a little problem with the original
24 rezoning.
25 And because of my issues with not meeting
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 the definition of a town center on the original
2 rezoning, although I did vote for it, after
3 having more experience in the council, I saw
4 this as an opportunity to right a wrong and to
5 at least not give them these trips and maybe
6 lower the intensity of that zoning that I
7 thought probably shouldn't have got passed on in
8 the first place.
9 Can I stay in the queue?
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
11 Councilman Clark, do you want to respond?
12 MR. CLARK: Not having been on the
13 original -- in the original -- I was there in
14 the original vote but not the original zoning.
15 My issue is one that's long-standing, and
16 we still go through it today and I still take
17 issue with it.
18 I have a hard time with developers coming
19 in and continually holding on to trips for years
20 at a time. And in the system that we play by,
21 once you get those, that's it. So everybody
22 behind you is playing by the rules, paying the
23 money, and you're just hanging on. It doesn't
24 seem to be a fair way to play.
25 So I looked at it from an entirely
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 different standpoint. For me it was, you know,
2 you've had this a number of years and you just
3 want to continue to hang on to the trips and
4 continue -- and so I came at it from a different
5 angle.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilman Yarborough, you
7 still have the floor.
8 Were you here previously? I'm sorry.
9 MS. JONES: I was here for that.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Go ahead.
11 MS. JONES: I think that was the night we
12 didn't approve a number of development
13 agreements that were coming back for extensions
14 or renewals to extend four or five or ten years
15 where they had already had that five or ten
16 years, whatever the number of years was.
17 I think a lot of the discussion really went
18 to what Councilman Clark just spoke to, in that
19 you've had the trips reserved, you've been there
20 for however long, and now you're coming back and
21 saying, oh, well, we need some more time, and
22 nothing had happened.
23 I believe all of the ones that we denied,
24 no activity had happened, no development
25 whatsoever had taken place on those tracts of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 land, and we were still continuing to approve
2 and have, I guess, in the past done that
3 consistently.
4 But I think that night we just kind of took
5 a stand that, you know, it's time for us to --
6 if you're going to come and reserve the trips
7 and you're given a time frame to do the
8 development, then something needs to happen.
9 And that had not happened on this one.
10 So that's my recollection of what took
11 place during that time frame.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 Councilmember Yarborough.
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 I appreciate that from the senior members.
16 That helps.
17 The other question -- and I'd rather not do
18 hearsay, but I notice it's in Mr. Holt's
19 district. I don't know if maybe Mr. Harden or
20 Mr. Hainline had spoken with the councilman for
21 District 11 and if he had weighed in at all.
22 Mr. Harden, did you --
23 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: I mean, I'd rather not ask
25 to defer on it. I just want to make the best
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
41
1 decision on it.
2 MR. HARDEN: I understand.
3 My discussion with him was peripheral to
4 this because if you'll see in T.R.'s letter here
5 to you, he's arguing we're locked into 684-. If
6 that were the case, my beef would be different.
7 The City's now saying, no, you're not locked
8 in. We want to charge you $984,000. So they
9 aren't locking us in.
10 T.R.'s explanation is -- and I agree with
11 his legal position. And if the City were to
12 say, okay, you, in fact, are locked in at 684-,
13 then, you know, peace be with you, and T.R. and
14 I will go our ways. But the General Counsel's
15 Office is saying, no, we have an error, and
16 we're going to charge you $984,000.
17 So I'm kind of -- you're getting one
18 argument from T.R., but that's not the argument
19 that the City's given me. I've been trying to
20 get my development granted at 684- for a while.
21 They're saying, no, you're not locked in. So
22 I'm saying, well, fine, then these trips are
23 available to me. I think they're available
24 anyway.
25 That was my discussion with Mr. Holt. So
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 it was peripheral, in fairness to the second
2 part of this.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Right. I was just trying
4 to get some idea. Maybe Mr. Hainline --
5 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
6 MR. HAINLINE: Mr. Chairman and members of
7 the committee, that is indeed an issue which has
8 come up about ten minutes ago, exactly whether
9 Mr. Harden's number is locked in. If it is
10 locked in, then you denying this isn't going to
11 benefit him any. If it is not locked in, then
12 we don't know what exactly is going on.
13 With that question outstanding, which is
14 the fundamental issue here, I would ask that we
15 defer this for two weeks so we can try and get a
16 determination as to whether he is locked in and,
17 therefore, whether anyone will benefit or not
18 benefit from this person coming out of line.
19 I mean, in all fairness, Mr. Harden's
20 client has been in line since 2005. So everyone
21 out there has been in line for two or three
22 years. This isn't just one applicant; it's a
23 number of people. If his number is locked in,
24 it depends on what number that it's locked in at
25 as to whether he'll oppose.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 So I would ask that we defer it. We can
2 look to whether his number is locked in. I
3 don't think Mr. Harden would have an objection
4 to that. And then we could come back in two
5 weeks and try and resolve that issue.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I have Councilmember
7 Shad.
8 I'm most likely going to defer this in the
9 hopes that we can get some kind of answer in two
10 weeks.
11 MR. SHAD: (Inaudible.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I'm going to defer
13 this for two weeks.
14 I appreciate the two of you continuing to
15 try to work this out, and I'd appreciate the
16 Planning Department putting this as a
17 priority --
18 MR. CLARK: (Inaudible.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, but try to make this a
20 priority so we can come back next week and bring
21 it to a resolution.
22 MR. HAINLINE: All right. Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 We're going to continue 2007-1215. We'll
25 open and continue that public hearing with no
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 further action.
2 Thank you, gentlemen.
3 Item 44, 2007-1230. We'll open that public
4 hearing. We have several speakers, the first
5 one being
6 Chris Gilmore, followed by Michael Kershner.
7 Before I forget, I neglected to welcome
8 Councilmember Bishop to our meeting today, and
9 Councilmember Holt was here for a few minutes
10 earlier.
11 Councilman Bishop, we appreciate you being
12 here.
13 (Mr. Sanders approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Sanders.
15 MR. SANDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16
17 applicant.
18 Is staff going to give their report or do
19 you just want me to go ahead and get into the
20 meat of this?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's go ahead and do the
22 public hearing and then we'll get the staff
23 report later.
24 MR. SANDERS: Thank you.
25 And, Mr. Chairman, if possible, could
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Ms. Approbato come back there?
2 We've got some slides we'd like to put up
3 for the council's benefit to do our
4 presentation.
5 Mr. Chairman and members of the LUZ
6 committee, good evening.
7 I guess the good news is -- the bad news is
8 I've got opposition. The good news is I don't
9 think that most of the people here are opposed
10 to my application; it's a subsequent one. So
11 hopefully this won't be too long, and I will try
12 to be quick as we go through it tonight.
13 The proposal that you have before you
14 tonight on this particular application is to
15 take a parcel of land of about 13 acres --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sanders, if I could get
17 the staff to show the slides instead of your
18 staff, I would appreciate that.
19 MR. SANDERS: That would be fine.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 MR. SANDERS: The proposal you have, again,
22 Mr. Chairman, is about 13 acres. It currently
23 has a land use designation of LDR, low density
24 residential. We're asking it to be amended to
25 allow for MDR uses, specifically approximately
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 204 multifamily dwelling units.
2 The staff report that you have before you
3 tonight, as you will see, has recommended denial
4 of our application. The -- but the -- excuse me
5 just one minute. Can y'all see the picture
6 that's up there? Because I can't see it on this
7 up here.
8 MR. SHAD: Yeah, we can see it.
9 MR. SANDERS: Thank you.
10 As you can see on the aerial that you have
11 before you, the property is located basically at
12 the intersection of Beach Boulevard and Peach
13 Drive. Those of you who are familiar with that
14 area will know it's basically across the street
15 from the old Gooney (phonetic) golf putt-putt
16 course where the historical or infamous T-Rex
17 statue stands.
18 The site that you have lies directly
19 adjacent to commercial zoning and commercial
20 development, basically a strip mall to the south
21 as well as a gas station on the corner. On the
22 other side, you have a mitigation bank that has
23 a conservation zoning designation that was
24 rezoned to conservation back in '98. And then
25 on the other side, you have about ten
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
47
1 single-family homes that were built in the '60s,
2 about half-acre lots, with about 120 feet of
3 buffer between the homes and the rear parcel
4 line.
5 What I respectfully submit is basically
6 four things this evening:
7 Number one, the staff report that you have
8 before you is inconsistent with reality. And by
9 that I mean it's inconsistent in that it does
10 not take account of the actual development
11 patterns that are on the ground as opposed to
12 looking at some blank land use maps.
13 Number two, staff's recommendation and
14 their analysis is actually inconsistent with
15 their prior analyses and recommendations on
16 similar projects.
17 Is that my time?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm going to give you about
19 another minute because of our little technical
20 difficulties.
21 MR. SANDERS: Thank you.
22 Number three, the staff report is
23 inconsistent with the professional
24 recommendation of this City's immediate past
25 planning director, Mr. Mike Saylor. I believe
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
48
1 that you have his letter -- you should have his
2 letter before you this evening that goes through
3 the various reasons why it is that the staff's
4 report is, in fact, contrary to the various
5 policies in our comprehensive plan.
6 Lastly, staff's report and analysis is
7 inconsistent with the findings and
8 recommendation of every single Planning
9 Commission member that heard this item back in
10 December. That is, the Planning Commission
11 voted unanimously to recommend approval of this
12 application because of the various items that I
13 mentioned and the various items of which I'd be
14 more than happy to go through with you later if
15 indeed you have questions.
16 The last thing I'll mention, Mr. Chairman
17 and members of the committee, is the staff
18 report is inconsistent with the City's 2006 --
19 the recommendations of the City's '06 Workforce
20 Housing Task Force -- of which, Mr. Chairman, I
21 believe you were a member, as was Councilmember
22 Jones -- in various policies that are set forth
23 in there that establish why it is that the City
24 is encouraging this type of development.
25 With that being said, I will reserve the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
49
1 rest of my time, if I may, for rebuttal and will
2 certainly be available to answer any questions
3 the committee members may have.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Sanders.
5 Chris Gilmore, followed by Michael
6 Kershner.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
10 My name is Chris Gilmore --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Pull that microphone down a
12 little bit, please.
13 MS. GILMORE: My name is Chris Gilmore,
14 9730 Doolittle Road, representing the Southside
15 Estates Civic Association.
16 This address on the application of 10055
17 Beach Boulevard does not exist. The property
18 has no direct access to Beach Boulevard. The
19 only access to the property at the present time
20 is by way of a dirt easement off of Peach Drive,
21 having a conservation land use. The easement
22 runs behind the commercial property on Beach
23 Boulevard. As far as I can determine, the
24 easement is 65 feet, which on the original plat
25 was to be a right-of-way to extend Patton Road
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
50
1 to St. Johns Bluff Road.
2 This land change would be inconsistent with
3 goal 1, policy 1.1.7 of the future land use
4 element of the comprehensive plan. The MDR land
5 use would allow up to 20 units per acre next to
6 land developed -- or proposed to be developed,
7 at a maximum of seven units per acre.
8 Policy 1.1.7 calls for a gradual transition
9 of densities and intensities between land uses.
10 Going from two units per acre up to 20 units is
11 not gradual. Going from two units per acre to
12 seven units per acre is certainly a better
13 transition. Therefore, the land should be left
14 to develop as LDR with no more than seven units
15 per acre, the same as all adjacent properties to
16 the north, south, east, and west.
17 Contrary to the comp plan, policy 1.1.11,
18 to change this parcel to MDR would have a
19 detrimental effect on the surrounding
20 properties, both developed and undeveloped. It
21 would detract rather than enhance the
22 character -- it would detract rather than
23 enhance the character of the established
24 single-family development. It would prevent the
25 surrounding land uses from achieving an optimal,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 ecological, and economic benefit and diminish
2 the enjoyment of their properties through the
3 walls of privacy.
4 To approve this land use change would
5 create a multifamily MDR land use, completely
6 surrounded by single-family and conservation
7 within -- with a three-story apartment
8 development wedged in a corner.
9 The Planning Department states that it's
10 inconsistent with the comprehensive plan and
11 several of its policies and goals and also
12 inconsistent with the State plan.
13 I respectfully ask that you follow the
14 recommendation of the Planning Department and
15 vote to deny this request.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 MS. GILMORE: I have a letter that was sent
18 to me.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Gilmore, your time has
20 expired.
21 MS. GILMORE: I just want to --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: You can turn that in. We'll
23 be happy to take that for you.
24 Thank you.
25 Our next speaker is Michael Kershner,
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1 followed by Pamela Eutsler.
2 I'm sorry, I can't pronounce your name.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
6 I live at 3018 Peach Drive.
7 I'm opposed due to -- I think the
8 congestion on Peach and Beach would be higher.
9 I'm concerned about drainage because I know
10 that's very low land and the builder would have
11 to increase the level. And I'm concerned with
12 the drainage, which will be the back of my yard
13 basically.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Next speaker is Pamela Eutsler -- if you
17 can come up and pronounce your name so I don't
18 butcher it for you -- followed by
19 Thomas Haeussner.
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Don't start my three
21 minutes till I get there.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
24 My name is Pam Eutsler. I live at 2851
25 Peach Drive.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I'm offended by some of the things he
2 said. He seems to put in there that it only
3 butts up against a -- that he forgets it butts
4 up against homes on three sides, and in the very
5 back is wetlands. And those homes were built in
6 the '60s, but I have a beautiful home. It's not
7 a Deerwood home by any means, but it's a
8 beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood with
9 half-acre properties with old live oak trees.
10 This property, by the way, at one time the
11 City did a beautiful job to be stewards of that
12 land. There used to be three spring-fed lakes
13 on the land with fish and turtles. There used
14 to be trees with owls. There used to be bike
15 paths. There used to be a horse riding path
16 around it.
17 When we finally agreed to let someone take
18 the front part of the property and use it to
19 build a small strip mall, it was with the
20 understanding that these lakes would be saved
21 just like they were.
22 I got a call from a neighbor on a Sunday
23 morning to say, "There's dump trucks back there;
24 you need to hurry." I went back there, and all
25 three lakes are now completely filled in. He
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1 wouldn't even let me have anybody get out there
2 to get the turtles out. They were just filled
3 in. Trees were chopped down. BEAKS came out.
4 They're aware of what happened. They picked up
5 an owl's nest that had been destroyed virtually
6 except for the baby owls.
7 Now, this is the third or fourth person
8 that's owned this property, and I was hoping he
9 would be a good steward. Instead, they're going
10 to build on only 13 acres, 204 units, and you're
11 not even including the fact that there's got to
12 be roads there. There's got to be sidewalks
13 also there, garages, parking garages, a place to
14 put cars, and only 13 units that are surrounded
15 by homes on three sides. The very back of that
16 area is still a wetlands area.
17 I was hoping that the City would also, once
18 again, be great stewards of the land and take
19 care of the property.
20 Last time there were people here to talk,
21 but he had deferred our section of it until
22 after the last meeting that lasted from 1:00
23 until 9 o'clock. So by being last, the senior
24 citizens that live in the area that I brought
25 with me, none of them could make it past
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1 6 o'clock. So they couldn't be here to talk
2 last time.
3 I know it got approved, and I did have
4 people with me, but you don't want them around
5 when they miss dinner. So they had to go home.
6 So I resent that too.
7 I don't know why he -- and he had even told
8 us at the end -- we asked why we were put last
9 when we weren't supposed to be, and the answer
10 was, "Sorry, I didn't know anybody was here."
11 Well, all the Craig people were here. He sure
12 knew that.
13 So I don't think it was right to defer us
14 to last the last time because I needed to get
15 them in and get them out. I promised them we
16 were early on the agenda.
17 So thank you very much for your time. I
18 hope you deny it.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 Just for the record, I've seen these people
21 when they haven't had dinner.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Applause.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, we
24 don't allow demonstrations, so I'd appreciate
25 you not doing that.
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1 Our next speaker is Thomas Haeussner,
2 followed by Ross Benolken.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
5 I am married to the short, blond lady that
6 was just up here a minute ago. I must say that
7 she's very spunky, and she speaks from the
8 heart.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Can you give us your name
10 and address, please.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thomas Haeussner, 2851
12 Peach Drive.
13 I've lived in Jacksonville since 1952.
14 I've been married and living there since 1979.
15 I've seen a lot of changes go on and
16 everything.
17 My biggest concern is the people who live
18 east and west of this supposed development are
19 going to be severely impacted. I speak for them
20 as well as the ones that live on Peach Drive.
21 The traffic and everything is going to be
22 compounded. The property values will be lost.
23 Everyone who lives there is either an
24 elderly couple or they're now buying up these
25 older homes and redesigning them and fixing them
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1 on these fairly nice property sizes that we have
2 out there. There's a lot of potential, but to
3 put in apartment complexes, to dump in that many
4 units on just small acreage does not fit into
5 our design of that community.
6 I would like to see if you would offer --
7 request that those who are opposed to this,
8 please stand.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Comply.)
10 MR. HAEUSSNER: Would you request that
11 those who are opposed to this project please
12 stand?
13 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Comply.)
14 MR. HAEUSSNER: This is probably the best
15 turnout we've had in a long time.
16 You can be seated. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
18 Our next speaker is Ross Benolken, followed
19 by former Councilwoman Lynette Self.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Ross Benolken,
22 at 9833 Bradley Road.
23 I've been a resident of Southside Estates
24 for over 37 years, and I'm very active in our
25 civic association. I know the area very, very
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1 well. Peach Drive is a single-lane, winding
2 road that goes between Beach Boulevard and
3 Atlantic Boulevard. Having this many more units
4 trying to get in and out of that is just going
5 to be a catastrophe at that intersection.
6 There's a stoplight at Peach Drive which
7 would allow cars to go in and out, but trying to
8 turn left off of Peach Boulevard is just going
9 to be a nightmare for people that live down
10 there.
11 Thank you very much.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 Our next speaker is my former colleague
14 Lynette Self.
15 (Ms. Self approaches the podium.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Welcome back.
17 MS. SELF: Thanks. Good evening.
18 I'm Lynette Self. My address is 12209
19 Bittercreek Lane.
20 I didn't really know this was on the agenda
21 tonight. I actually came for another issue.
22 I'm sure you all don't know what that is, but I
23 am here for another issue tonight.
24 This was a land use that was actually
25 proposed when I was on council. I remember
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1 Councilman Bishop was actually at a meeting with
2 me, a town meeting that we had on this.
3 This is not a good idea for this
4 community. This is a single-family community.
5 It's a community that is -- I actually grew up
6 in this community, so I'm very familiar with
7 it.
8 The access to this is virtually none.
9 There is access, but it's very difficult to get
10 to this piece of property. And to put a
11 three-story building, I think, with 240 units --
12 MR. SANDERS: Two hundred and four.
13 MS. SELF: -- two hundred and four units --
14 it doesn't really make a big difference -- it
15 just doesn't fit in this community. So I would
16 hope that you would support the community.
17 I know at the town meeting that we had,
18 Karl actually did a great presentation, but the
19 community is just saying, no, this isn't good
20 for us; it doesn't fit in.
21 The road that he is talking about is a
22 two-lane road. It's a small road. It's a
23 narrow road. To put this much traffic back on
24 it is not good for this community, so I'd ask
25 that you not support this land use.
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1 Thank you. Good to see you guys.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Good to see
3 you.
4 I have no further speakers. We will close
5 the public hearing.
6 Councilmember Bishop, would you like to
7 make some comments?
8 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
9 appreciate the opportunity.
10 As former Councilwoman Self said, this is
11 not a good idea. There were references to the
12 Planning Commission deliberations earlier in the
13 discussion about this. Yes, the Planning
14 Commission unanimously approved it. They went
15 through that discussion about, well, we can
16 approve it now because it's just a
17 recommendation and when it comes back from
18 Tallahassee, we can look at it again kind of an
19 approach. But be that as it may, it was not a
20 resounding affirmation of the merits of this
21 particular proposal.
22 Nothing has really changed since the last
23 time this came up, about a year and a half ago,
24 where it was, I think, ultimately withdrawn.
25 It's still a proposed apartment complex with a
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1 couple hundred units on a piece of property
2 that's wedged behind a single-family
3 neighborhood.
4 This particular area is one of those old,
5 preconsolidation, rural-residential-type
6 developments. It was done back in the '60s when
7 it was -- when that area was out in the middle
8 of nowhere. It's bounded -- Peach Street [sic]
9 comes out onto Beach Boulevard. The adjoining
10 property is CCG-2 zoning for a strip center.
11 There's no buffer between these two activities
12 at all.
13 This really is not an exercise in
14 planning. This is an exercise in default
15 construction. The particular piece of property
16 is behind this old, rural residential
17 development.
18 It says -- Beach Boulevard address. It's
19 not a Beach Boulevard address. It's an old
20 right-of-way that accesses onto Peach Street,
21 which, as it's already been stated, it's an
22 old -- it's an old, two-lane residential street
23 which you're going to dump cars from 200
24 apartments onto.
25 It doesn't have access to Beach Boulevard.
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1 If it had access to Beach Boulevard, it might be
2 an entirely different discussion, but it
3 doesn't, and there's no mechanism under this
4 thing to even fix that sort of proposal.
5 So this is not a buffer land use between
6 incompatible uses. It's simply an intrusion
7 into an old -- what was developed as a rural
8 residential community, and it's just wrong and
9 it shouldn't be done.
10 This is the kind of thing that happens all
11 over the county where we don't adequately go in
12 and plan for these kind of things. It should
13 not be continued in the manner in which it's
14 done.
15 It's perfectly fine to be developed as
16 single-family residential, which currently the
17 land use designation is what the zoning would
18 support, and that is perfectly consistent with
19 the activity in the area and what would be
20 accessed off of Peach Street, but to intensify
21 this thing to that degree I just think is just
22 simply wrong and would urge you to recommend
23 denial of this application.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
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1 Let me go to the Planning Department and
2 get your feedback on the denial.
3 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman and members of
4 the committee, I would, first of all, submit
5 that we feel -- I would refer you to our report
6 on this particular item, which I feel is a
7 substantially well-written report. It's
8 well-documented. It's well-thought-out. It's
9 logical, and I think it's based on the sound
10 principles within our comprehensive plan, and it
11 is, in our opinion, something that does not
12 reflect good planning.
13 This particular situation, there are --
14 within our report, I will just tell you that
15 there are numerous goals and objectives that
16 this is inconsistent with. We've talked about
17 incompatibility or unlikeness with surrounding
18 land uses. This is definitely a multifamily use
19 within a residential area.
20 There are concerns to us with regard to
21 access. It's just -- it's not a gradual
22 transition which we're looking for. It's
23 isolated. It's to the rear, adjacent or
24 juxtaposition to single-family.
25 There are many reasons, talking about the
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1 character of the area, the impact that this
2 would have on the infrastructure in the area
3 that concerns us greatly.
4 We are, again, concerned about the impact,
5 its inconsistency not only with the numerous
6 goals and objectives as referenced in our report
7 as well as the operative provisions, but as well
8 as with, as we've identified, policies in our
9 regional policy plan as well, and as well with
10 our state comprehensive plan.
11 So for all those reasons which we've
12 documented in terms of incompatibility and
13 insufficient services and inappropriate access,
14 we have grave concerns about the development and
15 have recommended denial.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move to deny.
18 MS. JONES: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
20 to deny 2007-1230.
21 Is there any discussion on the denial?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, open the ballot
24 and record the vote.
25 Green if you support the denial, red if you
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 support --
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
5 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
6 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 denied 2007-1230.
14 We're at the top of page 14, 2007-1231.
15 We'll open that public hearing.
16 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
17 public hearing.
18 Do I have a motion?
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
20 MR. SHAD: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
22 on -1231. Seeing no discussion, all in favor --
23 I'm sorry. Open the ballot and record the
24 vote.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
11 approved 2007-1231.
12 Item 46, 2007-1232. We'll open that public
13 hearing. We have one speaker, Wyman Duggan.
14 (Mr. Duggan approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Wyman.
16 Happy New Year.
17 MR. DUGGAN: Happy New Year to you,
18 Mr. Chairman.
19 Wyman Duggan, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard,
20 Suite 1500, for the applicant.
21 This land use amendment is on 301, north of
22 Maxville. I spoke with Councilman Holt this
23 afternoon. He had no objections.
24 And I'm available for any questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
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1 Seeing no questions, we will close that
2 public hearing.
3 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on -1232.
6 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
7 record the vote.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
11 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
12 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
19 approved 2007-1232.
20 Thank you, sir.
21 MR. DUGGAN: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Item 47, 2007-1233. We'll
23 open that public hearing.
24 Seeing no speakers, the district
25 councilwoman, Councilwoman Jones, requested that
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 we continue that public hearing with no further
2 action. That was discussed in the agenda
3 meeting. That will mean this bill will be
4 postponed to the next semiannual series.
5 Item 48 is 2007-1234. We will open that
6 public hearing. We have a speaker,
7 Mr. Charles Mann.
8 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
9 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, Charles Mann, 165
10 Arlington Road, representing the landowner.
11 This is more of a cleanup of the zoning map
12 on the north side of Duval Road. This is an
13 isolated piece of property of IL. It is
14 surrounded by CGC that has been rezoned for
15 commercial and residential uses. When we did
16 the zoning, there was no residential element in
17 the IL.
18 What we're proposing is to downzone or to
19 rezone the property or to change the land use
20 from IL to CGC and then file a PUD on this so it
21 will be compatible with the surrounding land.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Seeing no further speakers, we will close
25 that public hearing.
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1 Do I have a motion on the bill?
2 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
3 MR. CLARK: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
5 on -1234.
6 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
7 record the vote.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
11 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
12 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
19 approved 2007-1234.
20 MR. MANN: Thank you very much.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 2007-1235. We'll open that public
23 hearing. We have one speaker, Ms. Paige
24 Johnston.
25 (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
2 MS. JOHNSTON: Good evening.
3 Hello. Paige Johnston, 1301 Riverplace
4 Boulevard, on behalf of the applicants.
5 This is an application for land use
6 transmittal, and we're requesting a land use
7 change from the low density residential to the
8 residential, professional, and institutional
9 land use category.
10 This property is east of I-95, and if
11 you're traveling north along I-95, past
12 Heckscher Drive, you may recall seeing the
13 United Ironworkers Union facility. This
14 property is adjacent to the south of that
15 property. To the east of the property is an
16 existing residential subdivision known as
17 Holly Ford (phonetic). And our request to take
18 this to RPI would allow us to have a use that I
19 believe is more consistent with the
20 comprehensive plan.
21 Recently, the council adopted an industrial
22 sanctuary plan. This property is located in an
23 area that's known as the situational
24 compatibility area. The properties to the north
25 of this site and further beyond Clark Road are
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1 all within the industrial sanctuary. The only
2 thing is that this RPI is more compatible.
3 I'm not aware of any opposition from the
4 adjoining community of Holly Ford. I've had two
5 people contact me with general questions but no
6 opposition.
7 When we came before the Northside CPAC,
8 there was some concern from the CPAC because, in
9 their words, they felt the RPI land use category
10 was too broad and that it allowed too many
11 things. We feel like with the PUD that will be
12 presented with this application, that that PUD
13 will address their concerns, and we can go
14 through any concerns that they may have as to
15 buffering or landscaping, anything having to do
16 with the compatibility with the neighborhood.
17 So we would ask you to -- as the staff
18 requested support of the application, that you
19 also support the application.
20 And I'm available for questions.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
22 Councilwoman Lee.
23 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 This particular application is in the
25 district that I represent. Ms. Johnston did
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1 write me a letter, hand delivered, in
2 September. And prior to then, I really didn't
3 have any problems with it. And, technically, I
4 don't have any now.
5 My concern is the opposition from the
6 CPAC.
7 MS. JOHNSTON: Yes, ma'am, and --
8 MS. LEE: Excuse me.
9 Mr. Heywood, whom I spoke with earlier, did
10 inform me that he felt that it wasn't any large
11 opposition, but I want to make sure that I'm
12 aware of exactly what the opposition is.
13 For instance, in Ms. Johnston's letter
14 dated September the 17th, if I could, real
15 quick --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Uh-huh.
17 MS. LEE: -- "We represent the applicant in
18 a recent application for a semiannual
19 comprehensive plan."
20 In the second paragraph, "The property
21 subject to the application, approximately
22 8.22-plus/minus acres, is located near I-95 and
23 Heckscher Drive on Kentucky Street in North
24 Jacksonville. The property was rezoned in 2004
25 to a PUD to permit an assisted living facility,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 but the project was never initiated.
2 "The applicant is seeking a semiannual
3 comprehensive plan amendment on this parcel.
4 The applicant would like to develop the property
5 for multifamily residential uses through a PUD,
6 which will be submitted in the spring."
7 In Ms. Johnston's comments, she didn't
8 mention the proposed apartments. And I'm
9 certainly not opposed to development. I am
10 concerned that in -- if you look on your agenda,
11 the comments state that there is a letter of
12 opposition on file. I don't know if I have that
13 letter. I don't see it. What is the letter?
14 Through the Chair, did I miss it? This is
15 what is stated.
16 Do you see it, Mr. Chairman?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, I see it's stated, but
18 I don't have a copy of it that I know of from
19 the Planning Department.
20 MS. LEE: I don't either.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Legislative Services has one
22 for you.
23 MS. LEE: I would like to read this for the
24 record. It's dated November the 28th.
25 "Dear Councilmember Corrigan" -- it was
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1 addressed to you, Mr. Chairman -- "the North
2 District CPAC voted at their October meeting to
3 recommend to deny this application."
4 Basically, you know, it says it's the labor
5 union hall.
6 "This is on the back side of the Holly Ford
7 neighborhood, which has been there for 50 years,
8 with only one road out of the area across the
9 CSX Railroad lines, namely Ford Avenue. RPI and
10 MU could also include IL, which is totally out
11 of the question.
12 "For these reasons, we recommend that the
13 application is denied.
14 "Sincerely, Bill Baker, Chairman."
15 It's cc'd to every member of the
16 committee.
17 I guess I would -- I don't think anyone
18 from the CPAC contacted me, you know. But, I
19 mean, I could take the position since they
20 didn't talk with me, I would go ahead and move
21 it, but I don't want to do that. I would like
22 to --
23 MS. JOHNSTON: Ms. Lee, would you mind if I
24 elaborated a little on the conversations before
25 the CPAC? Because, actually, the CPAC has a
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1 subcommittee, the Governmental Affairs
2 Subcommittee, that considers --
3 MS. LEE: Yes, ma'am. If you'd just let me
4 finish.
5 MS. JOHNSTON: Okay. I'm sorry. Please
6 continue.
7 MS. LEE: My question would be, through the
8 Chair to Ms. Johnston, do you have some type of
9 time line you're dealing with?
10 MS. JOHNSTON: Yes, ma'am.
11 Because this is a land use transmittal
12 application, they travel in a series together.
13 And if it is deferred, then, as Ms. Jones asked
14 that a prior application be deferred, it's
15 deferred for six months time. It's not a
16 two-week stint like a regular rezoning
17 application.
18 So what I would suggest, if you would be
19 open to the suggestion, is that -- because a lot
20 of the concerns that I can elaborate on for you
21 from the CPAC had to do with what would actually
22 be within the site plan and the PUD -- that we
23 could continue to work on those types of things
24 and meet with Ms. Lee and with the CPAC in
25 addition to any members of the Holly Ford
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1 community that would want to be involved in the
2 process so that we could address any concerns
3 that they might have.
4 MS. LEE: Well, Ms. Johnston, I certainly
5 think you are an honorable person, but, you
6 know, we do know that if it's not in writing,
7 things happen and things change.
8 What I would be amenable to, Mr. Chairman
9 and members of the committee, is that we defer
10 this. And if the CPAC committee or
11 representative feels -- feel that, you know, he
12 wants to talk to me or they feel necessary that
13 it's, you know, important or it doesn't matter
14 one way or the other, then I'll ask for it to be
15 pulled.
16 But I do think I have some responsibility,
17 since there is a letter of opposition in the
18 record, that I should try to find out what the
19 problems are and see if there's a way to resolve
20 it.
21 Ms. Johnston, I'm sorry, because I know
22 that you did write me, and at the particular
23 time, obviously, I didn't -- but there's a
24 letter of opposition in the file.
25 I've talked with no one with the Northside
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1 CPAC. And only a small portion is in the area I
2 represent, but it still is and I don't want to
3 at least not have the opportunity to have some
4 type of dialogue with the group.
5 If, for instance, we're able to have some
6 conversation between now and next Tuesday, then
7 I would ask Mr. Corrigan if he would be
8 amenable, and if I'm comfortable with it, to
9 pull it, and we could then vote on it.
10 MS. JOHNSTON: Yes, ma'am.
11 If you're willing to do so, I'm sure before
12 next Tuesday we could perhaps try to schedule a
13 meeting with either the Chair of the
14 Governmental Affairs Subcommittee or someone
15 within the CPAC committee of your choice if you
16 would like to discuss those issues.
17 I would ask that we go ahead and move
18 forward on the application tonight, not defer
19 the application tonight but move forward
20 tonight, and then by Tuesday if you still have
21 these concerns, then we would agree to defer it
22 on Tuesday.
23 Would that be agreeable?
24 MS. LEE: No, it won't.
25 I will request deferral and allow exactly
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1 what I said prior to -- I do have a question.
2 Is the developer willing to state that it
3 won't be apartments built? Is that -- or what
4 will be built?
5 MS. JOHNSTON: No, ma'am.
6 When we met before the CPAC and the
7 Governmental Affairs Committee, we explained
8 what the project was, and we suggested that it
9 would be apartments or condominiums.
10 I believe some of the concern indicated
11 from some of the members of the CPAC was that
12 they did not -- essentially do not want
13 multifamily anywhere within the Northside. Even
14 though this location may be appropriate for
15 that, they did not want the proliferation of
16 multifamily. They cited increased crime rates,
17 subsidized housing, government housing.
18 Their concerns were that it was going to be
19 some type of low-rent, low-income type housing.
20 I told them that our intention was to do a
21 quality project and that our PUD would set forth
22 development standards and that we would be --
23 that we would clearly state forth that we would
24 not do a low-income housing project.
25 Some of the members of the Governmental
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1 Affairs Committee understood that the zoning
2 aspect of it would come through the PUD in the
3 spring, and they were willing to move forward
4 with the application. And one of the members of
5 the CPAC, Tom Ruffin (phonetic), said
6 specifically, Well, Ms. Johnston, I know you're
7 going to have to come back in the spring, and if
8 you don't bring me a good PUD, I'll vote against
9 it, but I'm okay with moving forward today
10 because I know that you're going to have to
11 follow up with a PUD that I'm happy with.
12 Now, when we got to the full CPAC, there
13 were a couple of members of the CPAC who
14 basically said we don't like the RPI land use
15 category because you can do multifamily and you
16 can do commercial and you can do office all
17 within that. I said, well, we are proposing a
18 residential project. And, as I said, they're
19 not happy with the residential -- the
20 multifamily component of the project.
21 In the letter in opposition from the
22 CPAC -- I actually didn't get a chance to see
23 that -- but what you read said that they could
24 also do light industrial, and you cannot do
25 light industrial in an RPI land use category.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 So that is incorrect. There's limited types of
2 uses allowed in RPI. There's limited commercial
3 office, single-family, multifamily, and I
4 believe staff can confirm that for me if I'm
5 speaking out of turn.
6 MS. LEE: Through the Chair.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Can I give it a little bit
8 of input?
9 The difficulty if we defer and try to bring
10 it up is it won't appear on the agenda on
11 Tuesday night because we're the only committee
12 of reference. So it would have to be placed on
13 the addendum, which the Council President warned
14 at the last meeting he would not be in favor of
15 having an addendum anymore.
16 So I'll support what the district
17 councilperson wanted to do. I just want to make
18 sure you had all the information.
19 MS. LEE: Right. Well, maybe --
20 THE CHAIRMAN: If you told me at the
21 meeting you want to defer it, I would absolutely
22 defer it.
23 MS. LEE: I think, Mr. Chairman, that there
24 are special circumstances. And that's the good
25 thing about our -- Mr. Chairman, that's the good
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1 thing about our process, is that that is why it
2 is in place, so that when councilmembers are not
3 sure and they don't have enough information and
4 there may be some missing points, that the
5 leadership of the council acknowledges that and
6 that the chairperson of those respective
7 committees will make that request.
8 I think that, based on what Ms. Johnston
9 said, it's indicative of all communities that
10 say they don't want apartments. I think we just
11 voted some things down. You know, nobody wants
12 anything in their back door.
13 I am not stating at all that I am opposed
14 to this. If I were adamantly opposed to it
15 between September and now, I certainly would
16 have voiced that. But inasmuch as it is a
17 letter of opposition dated November the 28th,
18 which is right here in front of us -- maybe
19 because of Thanksgiving and some other things, I
20 certainly wasn't cognizant of it and obviously
21 the other members weren't because it wasn't even
22 in our folder today -- Mr. Chairman, I would
23 like to think that the leadership of the council
24 would be amenable because that's why this
25 process is here.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I have good news for you. I
2 was incorrect. We actually have a public
3 hearing at council on Tuesday night, the 8th.
4 So it will appear on the agenda, so you can do
5 what you want.
6 I would encourage Ms. Johnston and the CPAC
7 chair to get with the councilwoman and try to
8 work it out and, obviously, would support
9 releasing it from the committee if you were
10 happy at that point.
11 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I do appreciate
12 that.
13 And, Ms. Johnston, again, my opposition to
14 releasing this today certainly is not personal
15 towards your firm, but there are letters of
16 opposition. It is in the area that I represent,
17 and I would just like to make sure that at least
18 I have -- at least had an opportunity to reach
19 out to see what the problem is.
20 That certainly doesn't mean I'm for or
21 against it, but it means that at least I've
22 attempted to try to meet with the people who
23 will most be affected by it, the people who live
24 in the area.
25 MS. JOHNSTON: Yes, ma'am, we understand.
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1 And we will make every effort to contact
2 you and be in contact with you and the CPAC
3 member before next Tuesday to discuss it
4 further.
5 MS. LEE: I apologize that we're doing this
6 at the last minute. In the future, if you have
7 anything, I'll certainly make an effort to try
8 to work it out prior to meeting.
9 MS. JOHNSTON: Thank you. I appreciate
10 that.
11 MS. LEE: You're welcome.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: So based on your request,
13 Councilmember Lee, I'm going to open and
14 continue 2007-1235 with no further action.
15 There will be a public hearing on Tuesday. And
16 if it's worked out, then I'll be happy to
17 discuss releasing it from the committee.
18 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, to keep the public
20 hearing open in the event that action does not
21 happen on Tuesday, then it will be available for
22 action at a future date without readvertising.
23 It's standard procedure that we would do at
24 this point. I mean, we're deferring it. We're
25 not taking any action. We're just continuing
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1 the public hearing.
2 MS. LEE: Okay.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 MS. JOHNSTON: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Item number 50, 2007-1236.
6 We have one speaker, Mr. Tom Ingram.
7 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
8 MR. INGRAM: Good evening.
9 Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue, Suite
10 400.
11 I'm here representing Alta Lakeside, LLC,
12 which is part of the Stokes Land Group.
13 This is a proposed land use amendment for
14 approximately 287 acres. It's between Alta and
15 New Berlin. It's south of the Northpoint
16 Industrial Park and north of several warehouse
17 developments. There's also residential in the
18 area, the Marshwinds project and others, but
19 it's currently approved for 650 single-family
20 dwelling units.
21 In light of the Mitsui announcement, the
22 Hanjin announcement, aggressive industrial
23 expansion on the Northside, thank God, they're
24 really looking to be a part of that. It's a
25 strategic site. It's about a half a mile from
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1 the Alta interchange. It's less than two miles
2 from the Mitsui terminal.
3 So for the long term, for the next hundred
4 years plus, this is a -- it's a great site for
5 warehouse distribution and to provide the jobs
6 for the future of Jacksonville.
7 I'd be happy to answer any questions.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Seeing no questions and no further
11 speakers, we'll close that public hearing.
12 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
13 MS. JONES: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on
15 2007-1236.
16 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
17 record the vote.
18 (Committee ballot opened.)
19 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
21 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
22 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
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1 (Committee ballot closed.)
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: You just approved 2007-1236.
4 Thank you.
5 MR. INGRAM: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Item 51, 2007-1237. We will
7 open that public hearing.
8 Seeing no speakers for -1237 -- actually, I
9 do. I'm sorry. It's Paige Johnston.
10 Sorry, Paige.
11 (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)
12 MS. JOHNSTON: That's okay.
13 Paige Johnston, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard,
14 on behalf of the applicant.
15 This is another application for land use
16 transmittal. We're requesting a land use change
17 from LDR to LI.
18 This property is approximately 14 acres at
19 the intersection of Faye Road and Eastport Road,
20 and it is located in the industrial sanctuary,
21 and we believe that this is consistent with the
22 comprehensive plan.
23 We met with the area councilperson, and
24 he's not objecting to the land use change. And
25 we also met with the CPAC, and they were in
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1 favor of the request. So we would ask for your
2 support as well.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 Seeing no further speakers, the public
5 hearing is closed.
6 Motion on the bill?
7 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Second?
9 MR. SHAD: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
11 on -1237.
12 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
13 record the vote.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
17 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
18 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've just
24 approved 2007-1237.
25 2007-1238. A very familiar face,
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1 Paige Johnston.
2 MS. JOHNSTON: Good evening.
3 Paige Johnston --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me. We'll open the
5 public hearing.
6 Go ahead.
7 MS. JOHNSTON: Paige Johnston, 1301
8 Riverplace Boulevard, on behalf of the
9 applicant.
10 This also is an application for a land use
11 transmittal. We have approximately 995 acres
12 located at the northwest -- I'm sorry --
13 northeast intersection of Pecan Park Road and
14 I-95.
15 We're requesting the change to multiuse so
16 that this property can be designated as the
17 Pecan Park regional activity center. We have
18 proposed uses including commercial, light
19 industrial, residential, and office.
20 This is located in an area that's
21 designated on the North Vision -- North Master
22 Vision plan as a regional power center, and we
23 believe that we are consistent with the
24 comprehensive plan.
25 We have met with the area councilperson,
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1 and he does not object to the application.
2 We've also met with the CPAC, and they also
3 supported the application. There was also a
4 community meeting that was held a couple of
5 months ago to go over the plan with the
6 community, and we had some good feedback from
7 them as well. We look forward to working with
8 everyone throughout the process.
9 I'm available for questions.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
11 Seeing no questions, that public hearing is
12 closed.
13 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
14 MR. SHAD: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on -1238.
16 Seeing no speakers, open the ballot and
17 record the vote.
18 (Committee ballot opened.)
19 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
21 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
22 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
25 (Committee ballot closed.)
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you just
3 approved 2007-1238.
4 Committee members, we're on the top of
5 page 16, 2007-1239. We'll open that public
6 hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
8 hearing.
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: Move the bill.
10 MR. CLARK: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion on
12 2007-1239.
13 MS. LAHMEUR: There's an amendment.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: There is an amendment.
15 MR. CLARK: Move the amendment.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
18 on the amendment.
19 Could we please have the amendment
20 explained to us.
21 (Inaudible discussion.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I remember somebody saying
23 an amendment in the agenda meeting, so please
24 bear with us.
25 (Inaudible discussion.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: While they're discussing it
2 for a second time, let me reiterate what I said
3 earlier.
4 Due to a new law passed by this council, if
5 you are here as a lobbyist on any bill that
6 we'll be considering or if you -- a lobbyist is
7 defined as someone that's being compensated by
8 someone that's proposing or defending a bill --
9 or if you have a financial gain from a
10 particular project, you need to fill out a
11 lobbyist registration form prior to speaking.
12 They are located right up here (indicating).
13 It's the white paper right up here in the front
14 on the right.
15 Councilmember Lee.
16 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a
17 question about that?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
19 MS. LEE: I really should be asking legal.
20 Is someone here from legal?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller.
22 MS. LEE: Ms. Eller, I apologize.
23 If a person is representing something and
24 they don't speak and they're representing a
25 group, should they be required to fill out a
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1 card as well?
2 MS. ELLER: I'll double-check, but I
3 believe our new council rule is just if you're
4 actively lobbying, so if you are, in fact,
5 speaking. So if they're just here to listen in,
6 then I don't think that they're required to do
7 that lobbyist registration.
8 MS. LEE: Well, what about if they have
9 lobbied you in the past?
10 MS. ELLER: Yeah. If they are doing --
11 MS. LEE: If that person doesn't fill out a
12 card, can I submit their name and they'd be
13 required --
14 MS. ELLER: Sure.
15 MS. LEE: -- if they spoke to me to tell me
16 who they was supporting?
17 MS. ELLER: Sure. It's not limited to just
18 when you're speaking before the committee. It's
19 any lobbying effort that you do.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: It's lobbying the Council?
21 MS. ELLER: Yeah. If they show up at your
22 office --
23 MS. LEE: So that person should make sure
24 that they fill out a card?
25 MS. ELLER: Correct.
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1 MS. LEE: Okay. Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: And just for the record,
3 it's not just for lobbying the City Council;
4 it's lobbying any board or commission in the
5 City.
6 MS. LEE: Right. Well, I just wanted to
7 make sure because they're having some issues. I
8 know I was lobbied on prior to this rule being
9 at council. And you may not see those people
10 speaking, but they are definitely receiving
11 dollars and cents. I just want to make sure
12 that they follow the rules.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 Do we have an answer on our amendment yet?
15 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir. I apologize.
16 The amendment was something that came up at
17 the Planning Commission, and I will give it in
18 this context.
19 In our negotiations with the Department of
20 Community Affairs, when they're reviewing our
21 land use amendments as we transmit them over
22 there for their review, they have in some cases
23 asked us to limit the development potential of
24 particular land use amendments by including on
25 the future land use map an asterisk, which would
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1 depict specifically what the maximum development
2 potential or development limitations would be
3 for a particular proposal.
4 What came up at the Planning Commission
5 meeting was a citizen, a representative of the
6 public, said that by including an asterisk on
7 the map might be confusing and that we ought to
8 use some other symbol other than an asterisk to
9 clarify the difference between a particular
10 development potential as it relates to a
11 particular amendment in this particular action.
12 So we're in support. That's not a
13 problem. It's just taking -- using a symbol
14 other than an asterisk on the land use map to
15 indicate a potential change, and we're in
16 support of that amendment.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So our amendment gets
18 rid of the asterisk and puts something else.
19 All in favor of the asterisk amendment.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: The asterisk amendment
24 carries.
25 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
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1 MS. JONES: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on
3 2007-1239 as amended.
4 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
5 record the vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
9 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
10 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
17 just approved 2007-1239.
18 Don't forget to put an asterisk on that
19 bill noting that amendment.
20 If you've just joined us or joined us since
21 we got started, we're going to take up 2007-1240
22 last. We have just a little bit more business
23 to do. We're going to come back to this bill in
24 a few minutes. We want to make sure we can
25 dedicate the time necessary to properly consider
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1 this bill.
2 We'll skip 54 and go to 55, 2007-1242.
3 We'll open that public hearing.
4 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
5 hearing.
6 MR. CLARK: Move the bill.
7 MR. WEBB: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on
9 -1242.
10 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
11 record the vote.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
15 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
16 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
23 approved 2007-1242.
24 Item 56, -1243, is deferred.
25 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me. Mr. Crofts.
2 MR. CROFTS: I think now may be the
3 appropriate time to go back to page 5 of the
4 agenda and take up item 14.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: That's correct. I
6 appreciate you bringing that up.
7 We did have someone that was in a meeting
8 and could not join us until now. So I believe
9 Ms. Moehring is here. We are back on 2007-578.
10 We opened and closed that public hearing, and
11 we're ready to hear input from the Planning
12 Department.
13 Is there anyone in the audience here to
14 speak on 2007-578? If you would raise your
15 hand, please.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see anybody, so
18 we'll keep that closed and go to Margo Moehring
19 for our Planning Department report.
20 MS. MOEHRING: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 Please excuse my tardiness earlier.
22 You may recall that the text amendment
23 regarding the coastal high hazard area,
24 2007-578, was introduced last spring. The
25 department requested the item to be deferred
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1 from that semiannual series of land use map
2 amendments and has continued to work on it with
3 the Regional Council staff and the Jacksonville
4 Fire and Rescue Department Emergency
5 Preparedness Division.
6 The comprehensive plan, consistent with
7 what has long been state law already, includes
8 policies aimed at directing residential
9 development away from the coastal high hazard
10 area and maintaining or lowering hurricane
11 clearance times. However, the current text in
12 the plan is not sufficient to meet current state
13 law and, in the view of the Planning and
14 Development Department, to link land use and
15 emergency preparedness planning.
16 In 2006, state law changed and changed
17 the definition of coastal high hazard from
18 Category 1 Evacuation Zone to Storm Surge
19 Zone 1. It also allowed communities to change
20 future land use map designations in the coastal
21 high hazard if they adopt a level of service for
22 out-of-county evacuation for a Category 5 storm
23 event, adopt 12 hours for clearance to in-county
24 shelter, and provide appropriate mitigation.
25 Such mitigation can be the payment of money,
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1 contribution of land, or construction of shelter
2 or transportation facilities.
3 We view the change in law as an
4 opportunity. We've worked extensively with the
5 Emergency Preparedness Division and staff of the
6 Regional Council to draft a local mitigation
7 program with citywide policies and site-specific
8 policies.
9 If I ask -- may I ask one of my colleagues
10 to pass out -- we have a smorgasbord of options
11 for you, and they were in your LUZ book.
12 Exhibit A -- and Folks is passing them
13 out -- is the detailed local mitigation plan
14 that we have worked on with the Emergency
15 Preparedness Division and the Regional Planning
16 Council's staff.
17 Exhibit B is the bare minimum that we must
18 do in order to meet the state statute which
19 requires that we update our comprehensive plan
20 to include the new definition of coastal high
21 hazard and a map reflecting the new boundaries
22 of coastal high hazard by July 2008.
23 The department has changed its position
24 since the Local Planning Agency meeting because
25 we've been informed that there's concern that
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1 there has been insufficient stakeholder input
2 into our draft. As such, we currently recommend
3 Exhibit C, which is marked with a purple sticky
4 in the handout, which would be to adopt the map
5 in the definition, update the hurricane
6 clearance time in the comprehensive plan, and
7 commit to establish a working group to consider
8 these policies by January 1, 2009.
9 We're committed, of course, to developing
10 these policies sooner and would hope to be able
11 to brief you on our progress at the adoption
12 round of this text amendment.
13 The working group, of course, will be able
14 to use Exhibit A as a starting point in their
15 consideration.
16 Please note that without the additional
17 policies, we can anticipate issues with the
18 State if we try to change future land use map
19 categories. In fact, the last time we tried to
20 do so -- the last two instances where we tried
21 to do so where analysis showed that hurricane
22 evacuation times were not maintained resulted in
23 a finding of noncompliance by the State.
24 So we urge the council committee to commit
25 to working with us on this important issue, and
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1 we recommend your approval of revised Exhibit 1
2 for 2007-578, Exhibit C as we have handed out
3 today.
4 Thank you for your attention. I'm
5 available for questions.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very
7 much.
8 Councilmember Shad has a question.
9 MR. SHAD: (Inaudible.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, we are.
11 MR. SHAD: Are we going to move Exhibit C
12 or amend -- would it be amend to attach
13 Exhibit C?
14 MS. ELLER: Correct.
15 MR. CLARK: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
17 amendment.
18 Councilmember Clark, are you on the
19 amendment or are you on the bill?
20 MR. CLARK: (Inaudible.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no discussion
22 on the amendment, all in favor signify by saying
23 aye.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
3 MR. CLARK: Move the bill as amended.
4 MR. SHAD: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on
6 2007-578 as amended.
7 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
8 record the vote.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
12 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
13 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
20 just approved 2007-578.
21 Ms. Moehring, thank you very much for your
22 assistance.
23 Committee members, we are back on page 17.
24 The following items will be deferred. All the
25 items on page 17: 2007-1244, -1245, -1246, and
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1 -1247.
2 On page 18, all these items will be
3 deferred: 2007-1248, -1249, -1250, and -1266.
4 At the bottom of the page, item 65,
5 2007-1305 will be second and rereferred.
6 Page 19, all the items on that page are
7 second and rereferred: -1306, -1307, -1308,
8 -1309, -1310.
9 On page 20, all the items on that page will
10 be second and rereferred: 2007-1311, -1312,
11 -1340, -1341, and -1342.
12 On page 21, the top item, 2007-1343, will
13 be second and rereferred.
14 The second item, item 77, we actually have
15 a small amendment. Can I have a motion on the
16 amendment?
17 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
18 MR. SHAD: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second on the
20 amendment.
21 Can I have an explanation of the amendment,
22 please.
23 MS. ELLER: To the Chair, -1344 and -1345
24 actually have the same amendment. These are
25 both development agreements that are extending a
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1 previous development agreement. And in the
2 extension, they're actually pulling in another
3 CCAS that has actually caught up in time to this
4 one.
5 So in order to have them in the proper form
6 when you ultimately discuss them on January
7 15th, the request came from the concurrency
8 management office to hear these amendments
9 tonight and read second and rerefer.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no questions
11 on the amendment, all in favor signify by saying
12 aye.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
17 Can I have a motion to second and rerefer,
18 please.
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: So moved.
20 MR. SHAD: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
22 to second and rerefer.
23 Open the ballot and record the vote.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
2 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
3 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
10 amended and rereferred 2007-1344.
11 2007-1345 has the same situation.
12 MR. WEBB: So moved.
13 MR. SHAD: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second on the
15 amendment, -1345. All in favor signify by
16 saying aye.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Inaudible.)
22 MR. SHAD: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to second
24 and rerefer -1345.
25 Seeing no discussion, open the ballot and
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1 record the vote.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
5 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
6 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 rereferred 2007-1345.
14 2007-1346 is second and rereferred.
15 Page 22, the two items on that page, -1347
16 and -1350, would be read second and rerefer.
17 Unless somebody tells me differently, we've
18 done all the items except 2007-1240.
19 I will tell you that we typically take a
20 break at 7 o'clock for our court reporter,
21 Ms. Tropia, to take a break on her fingers
22 before they fall off.
23 In order for us to be able to begin this
24 discussion and not have to stop ten minutes
25 later, why don't we go ahead and take a
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1 ten-minute break now.
2 If you need to use the restroom before we
3 get started, they're located in the lobby, and
4 there's vending machines out there as well.
5 We will start back at about ten till 7:00.
6 We are adjourned for ten minutes.
7 (Brief recess.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Welcome back.
9 Committee members, thank you for coming
10 back. Members of the audience, thank you for
11 your cooperation.
12 We have one bill left to consider tonight
13 on the agenda. It's 2007-1240. It's a -- you
14 know, I started to joke and open the public
15 hearing and then hold these up (indicating) and
16 say no speakers, close the public hearing, but
17 that's not true.
18 I will tell you that I know what we're
19 getting ready to discuss here tonight is
20 extremely serious and an emotional issue for
21 many of the people in this room. Whether you're
22 on one side or the other, it's emotional. I
23 understand that and this committee understands
24 that, and we're used to dealing with emotional
25 items here on the council.
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1 I will tell you that we're going to deviate
2 from our normal procedure of considering a bill
3 because I think it will help improve the debate
4 that we're going to have. I appreciate your
5 cooperation as we do this.
6 Let me talk to you a little bit about the
7 ground rules. If you are going to speak, you do
8 need to turn in a blue speaker's card. I think
9 most of you got that message earlier.
10 What we're going to do tonight -- and I've
11 discussed this with both sides, as well as the
12 District Council Representative, Bill Bishop --
13 I am going to allow 20 minutes for each side to
14 present their case. We'll begin with the
15 proponents and the sponsor of the bill and then
16 follow that with the opposition.
17 I've asked Councilmember Bishop to
18 coordinate the speakers of the opposition so
19 they can coordinate their 20-minute
20 presentation.
21 After we have the two presentations, we
22 will then take additional public comments from
23 members in the audience.
24 I will tell you that we know that you may
25 be an affected resident and don't like it and
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1 you want to express that. We also know that if
2 you are a user or supporter of the airport, you
3 may want to express that. You're welcome to do
4 that. I will tell you that the most efficient
5 use of your time is to present new evidence to
6 this committee for us to consider as we make our
7 decision.
8 Our council rules, especially at council
9 meetings, state that we are not allowed to have
10 public displays of support. I'm going to -- in
11 support of my committee, I'm going to waive that
12 tonight for a few moments, and I'd like to start
13 tonight by having the two sides stand up so we
14 can have an indication of who's here in support
15 or against the bill.
16 So at this point, can I have everyone that
17 is here in support of 2007-1240 to please stand.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Comply.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. You
20 can be seated.
21 If I can now have everyone here that is in
22 opposition of 2007-1240 to please stand.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Comply.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. You
25 may be seated.
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1 Now, as I go through these speaker cards,
2 if you mainly wanted to be here to show your
3 opposition or support of this bill, you may wave
4 your hand and I will read for the record that
5 you oppose or you support this bill. You are
6 welcome to come down and speak, but you do not
7 have to. You can wave your hand and I'll put
8 your name and your preference in the record for
9 you to save you coming down to the podium.
10 I will also tell you that that, in my
11 opinion, should be the last display of support
12 or opposition to this bill tonight. We will
13 only accomplish what we're here tonight to do if
14 we are all very professional and courteous to
15 everyone else who's here.
16 We're going to give each and every person
17 in this room the opportunity to present their
18 facts, and we want the time when you come up to
19 present your facts to be treated the same way as
20 everybody else was. So I'd appreciate no
21 clapping, no further standing up, no displays of
22 support or opposition, and please respect each
23 person that comes up here.
24 I, as the former council president, know
25 the importance of treating everybody fairly, and
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1 I will definitely enforce that tonight. If it
2 gets out of hand or one of my committee members
3 or I don't feel like it's going the way it
4 should, then we will recess. Ms. Tropia always
5 can use another break, and we'll recess and
6 reestablish a quorum and then begin again from
7 there.
8 Before I call up the proponents and the
9 opposition to do that, I'm going to also do one
10 thing that we typically don't do. Many times in
11 a lengthy discussion, speakers refer to when you
12 hear this report, you're going to hear this and
13 you're going to think this and everything else.
14 So try to avoid that tonight.
15 I'm going to start by having the Planning
16 Commission's report read to the committee
17 members and followed by the Planning
18 Department's report described to the committee
19 members. That way as you come up to speak, you
20 can reference what has been presented rather
21 than guessing what's going to be presented later
22 in the evening.
23 So with that said, I will begin with a
24 report from the Planning Commission from
25 Mr. Dylan Reingold, who's from the Office of
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1 General Counsel and is the OGC representative at
2 the Planning Commission.
3 MR. REINGOLD: Thank you, sir.
4 Just as a brief introduction, as you've
5 requested, concerning the Planning Commission
6 hearing, on December 13th the Planning
7 Commission met, and I had a very lengthy
8 discussion concerning this matter. It was
9 approximately a six-hour hearing, including
10 testimony from the Planning Department, from
11 JAA, from the Planning Department's experts,
12 from JAA's experts.
13 Additionally, Councilmembers Bishop and
14 Yarborough were present, and we had technical
15 discussions. At that point, the public hearing
16 was opened, and there was testimony from --
17 neighborhood testimony in support and the rest
18 of the neighborhood in opposition to the
19 proposal.
20 At the end of the discussion, there were
21 some continual questions -- some additional
22 questions from the Planning Commission members
23 and of JAA staff and of the Planning
24 Department. And after the lengthy hearing, the
25 Planning Commission voted six to two to oppose
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1 this bill.
2 Please let me know if there is anything
3 else in addition you were looking for from the
4 Planning Commission.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Reingold.
6 Also, each committee member has a copy of
7 the Planning Commission's transcript in front of
8 them that they can reference to during the
9 meeting.
10 Are there any questions for Mr. Reingold on
11 his report?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, thank you very
14 much.
15 Now let's go to Mr. Thoburn for the
16 Planning Department's recommendation.
17 (Mr. Thoburn approaches the podium.)
18 MR. THOBURN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 My name is Brad Thoburn, Planning
20 Department, at 128 East Forsyth Street.
21 As you know, the proposed text amendment
22 before you would effectively allow the JAA to
23 extend Runway 14/32 2,000 feet from its current
24 4,000 to 6,000 feet.
25 The reason this is considered as a text
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1 amendment is because the comprehensive plan
2 currently has language that limits or prohibits
3 the extension of this runway. That language was
4 included in 1990 with the adoption of the
5 comprehensive plan.
6 I will tell you that in 2000, the then
7 planning director issued a policy statement that
8 the Planning Department would not support a
9 future -- the extension of the runway.
10 When we started this process, from a staff
11 perspective doing the analysis, that was kind of
12 an awkward thing for us to try to deal with
13 because, in my opinion, it's the position of the
14 Planning Department and myself, as the director,
15 to ensure that we provide you with a sound
16 recommendation based on the best available data
17 and analysis. We do not set policy, but we do
18 make recommendations, and ultimately you are the
19 policy makers.
20 So with that in consideration, we didn't
21 disregard that. And I wanted to make it clear
22 that that policy statement was out there and
23 that it had been made but that we were making an
24 evaluation based on what we believed was the
25 best current available data and analysis.
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1 Our staff analysis considered a number of
2 things, including the consistency with
3 applicable plans; overall community impact,
4 including an economic impact; airport safety,
5 both on and off the airport; and community
6 impacts, with a special consideration of noise
7 impacts and property values.
8 In our evaluation, the most relevant
9 document to our review was the Part 150 study
10 commissioned by JAA, which was approved by the
11 FAA in 2006.
12 In addition, because this is an unusual
13 issue for the department to take on, we enlisted
14 the services of a technical consultant to help
15 us evaluate the 150 study and relevant documents
16 and help prepare the department's
17 recommendation.
18 We tried to go a little bit beyond our
19 normal report and we provided you a great deal
20 of information maps, and we had questions and
21 answers from the JAA and our consultant. We
22 have the airport AICUZ maps. We have pictures
23 of airplanes that are in the classifications
24 that are -- can be landing at Craig Field, and
25 that will be part of the discussion
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1 potentially.
2 So we tried to provide as much background
3 information as possible so you could make an
4 informed decision.
5 In the end, we ultimately are recommending
6 approval of the amendment as substituted, and we
7 have made some recommendations. We've basically
8 made three revisions that were proposed to
9 the -- to the proposed text amendment that came
10 from JAA.
11 The JAA proposed a weight limitation of
12 6,000 pounds maximum takeoff weight and a
13 prohibition on serving as a certified commercial
14 service airport in accordance with FAR,
15 Part 139.
16 The department further recommends language
17 limiting operations to ARC-2 classified
18 airplanes, and we believe that this effectively
19 limits the current -- future operations to those
20 which are currently allowed to operate at the
21 airport.
22 Specifically, Part 139 limits -- prohibits
23 scheduled passenger service of over nine
24 passengers, and unscheduled passenger service is
25 allowed up to 31 passengers. The C-2 class
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1 airplanes limit landing speed to 141 knots, a
2 wing span of less than 79 feet, and tail heights
3 can be no greater than 30 feet.
4 Secondly, the department has proposed that
5 the JAA establish a noise monitoring program.
6 And in case the noise impacts exceed the
7 contours established in the 150 study, they will
8 initiate appropriate mitigation.
9 Further, the City can direct the JAA to
10 conduct a 161 study, which is the formal process
11 to limit noise and/or operational access in a
12 manner that contains that noise, the noise
13 contours within the boundaries of the Part 150
14 study.
15 Lastly, the department recommends
16 prohibiting future extensions or additional
17 runways, including a parallel runway. And we do
18 this because we believe that the comp plan sets
19 a difficult process for amending it, and we
20 believe that it should -- that that limitation
21 in the future should be continued.
22 The findings of the department that led
23 to -- the key findings that led to our
24 recommendation are that the extended runway does
25 increase safety, both on and off Craig Field,
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1 that the extension generally shifts the noise
2 contour and reduces the residential -- the
3 impact on residential properties around the
4 airport. It measurably reduces noise impacts in
5 the Holly Oaks subdivision located north and
6 west of the field.
7 If you'll notice, one of the maps that you
8 have is the noise contour change under the 150
9 study, and it's a map that's got green and red
10 shades. The red shows where the noise contour
11 is increasing, and the green shows where it
12 decreases.
13 So we really relied heavily in our
14 recommendation on that 150 study and the
15 assumptions that it's used based on
16 professionally-accepted methodologies. It was
17 approved by the FAA, reviewed by our consultant,
18 and they came to the same conclusion.
19 In addition, just a couple of numbers here
20 in terms of the reduction:
21 In 2020, the projected noise contour will
22 include less land in the 60-plus noise contour,
23 reducing it from 401.6 acres to 349.3 acres, and
24 there will be less projected population, from
25 1,139 to 894, in the noise contour with the
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1 extension than without it. Additionally, the
2 extension generally does not increase capacity.
3 However, there are planes that can land at
4 Craig today that -- excuse me -- that can land
5 at Craig today but choose not to. There will be
6 some increase in larger jet activity between now
7 and 2020 with and without the extension, and the
8 Part 150 study accounts for the increased
9 activity and is appropriately reflected in the
10 noise contours.
11 Without the runway extension, Craig Field
12 is anticipated to have roughly 210,000 flight
13 operations in 2020. With the extension, there
14 is expected to be less than 215,000 flight
15 operations. And in that same time, jet aircraft
16 operations, as a percentage of total operations,
17 are expected to increase from 3 percent to
18 7 percent.
19 One of the other conclusions was that if
20 you were really to effectively increase capacity
21 at the airport, you need to add a parallel
22 runway. And so that's why we included that
23 limit -- future limitation.
24 One of the questions that came up in our
25 discussions with Councilman Bishop was, you
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1 know, the impact of noise and larger planes that
2 choose not to use the airport but that may with
3 a longer runway, and we believe that's
4 appropriately accounted for in the Part 150
5 study.
6 However, in addition to that, our
7 consultant provided some information to us that
8 notes that while as a general rule, airplane
9 noise and size are -- that as planes get larger,
10 they tend to get louder, and that would be --
11 you know, common sense would tell you that.
12 However, they provided a listing of all the
13 planes that are within the categories that can
14 land or operate at Craig Field, and they broke
15 them down by weight, from 12,500 pounds to below
16 12,500 pounds and up to 70,000 pounds, and
17 determined that actually in those categories,
18 that the noise actually got -- as an average,
19 was lower than the planes between 30- and 60-
20 and 60- and 70,000 pounds. So while there tends
21 to be a correlation in this class of -- the
22 weight classes, it actually does not bear that
23 out.
24 The Planning Department also considered
25 economic impact on surrounding neighborhoods and
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1 property values. There was some discussion
2 about the impact -- the impact on property
3 values adjacent to airports. And there has been
4 one study that was done in Raleigh that
5 indicated, as a general rule, they found that
6 airport property -- properties around airports
7 tended to be about 3 or 4 percent less than they
8 would in comparable homes in other areas and
9 that noise disclosure actually added to the
10 decrease in the property value.
11 However, because the noise contour is
12 actually shifting in a way that reduces the
13 number of properties in the contour, we don't
14 believe it has a measurable impact on property
15 values and, arguably, could be positive.
16 Finally, the department concluded that with
17 the extension -- with the restrictions
18 recommended in the substitute, we would increase
19 safety, have a modest positive economic impact,
20 and because it reduces the number of people and
21 homes in the noise contour will not negatively
22 impact surrounding communities.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 We are now ready to get into the public
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1 hearing aspect of this. Before I start the
2 public hearing, I do see several current and
3 previous elected officials. I want to recognize
4 them. Senator Jim King is here tonight.
5 Senator King, it's always a pleasure to see
6 you.
7 Former Councilmember Lake Ray and former
8 Councilwoman Lynette Self I also saw earlier.
9 If there are any other elected officials or
10 previous elected officials, I welcome you back
11 to our chamber.
12 To my committee members, what I'd like to
13 do tonight is I'd like to hear from the people,
14 and my preference is for -- as the people come
15 up and speak, if you have a question for a
16 speaker, if you could jot down your question and
17 save it for later until we finish the public
18 hearing presentations, then we can take
19 questions that way.
20 Many times in an issue like this, your
21 question is going to be answered by a speaker
22 that follows the one that raises the question
23 with you. To aid you in that, I will repeat the
24 speaker's name at the end of their comments so
25 you'll know who you need to call back up for a
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1 clarification later in the evening. So if we
2 can do that, I feel like it will help the public
3 have an opportunity to speak to us more
4 efficiently.
5 With that said, I will open the public
6 hearing on 2007-1240. I will begin with the
7 Jacksonville Airport Authority's presentation
8 who will be presented -- Mr. Stewart, is --
9 (Mr. J. Clark approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Clark, good evening and
11 welcome.
12 MR. J. CLARK: Mr. Chairman and members of
13 the LUZ committee, John Clark, 7890 Monterey Bay
14 Drive, representing the Jacksonville Aviation
15 Authority.
16 Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge
17 our board members that are in attendance tonight
18 and ask our Vice Chairman, Mr. Jim McCollum, if
19 he would open up with some comments.
20 But Mary Burnett is one of our board
21 members tonight, Dr. Chester Aikens is with us
22 this evening, and Jack Demetree was with us and
23 I think he stepped away, and John Falconetti.
24 (Mr. McCollum approaches the podium.)
25 MR. McCOLLUM: Mr. Chairman, members of the
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1 committee, Jim McCollum, 4995 Spanish Oak
2 Circle, Vice Chairman of the Jacksonville
3 Aviation Authority.
4 I would very briefly like to say two
5 things. One, I came before the committees and
6 council -- seems like years ago -- I think weeks
7 ago and said that our one major request was to
8 let the issues be brought forth, let both sides
9 have discussion and discourse, and let a
10 decision be made rather than stopping the
11 process.
12 We have followed the process to this point
13 collectively, and we thank you for doing so. I
14 think it's the right thing to do for the people
15 of Jacksonville.
16 Second and also important is that none of
17 the current board members of the Jacksonville
18 Aviation Authority were serving back before the
19 Port Authority and Aviation Authority had their
20 split. In looking at the issues to be brought
21 forth to you tonight on the extension of the
22 Craig runway, this board sincerely feels that
23 it's the right thing to do for the aviation
24 community in Jacksonville, and that's why we
25 brought it to you.
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1 The second thing I'd like to say is we
2 started this issue and this discourse with total
3 respect for both sides and all sides in this,
4 and we will end that -- however the vote comes
5 out, we will still have total respect for
6 everyone involved.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. McCollum.
9 MR. J. CLARK: Mr. Chairman and members of
10 the committee, thank you for this opportunity.
11 I don't believe I will need 20 minutes
12 because as the executive director and CEO of the
13 Jacksonville Aviation Authority and working
14 closely with the Planning Department through the
15 process, I'm not sure that I could add any more
16 to what has already been said, other than the
17 fact that this process has been attempted and
18 underway since 1963 with the first
19 recommendations for an extension of a runway at
20 Craig Airport.
21 I will tell you that here we are in 2008,
22 and we come before City Council yet again asking
23 for the ability to amend the comprehensive plan,
24 recognizing that the community and the city of
25 Jacksonville continues to grow. So if you go
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1 back to 1963 and you fast forward to 2008,
2 continuously our community grows.
3 Aviation, airports are a part of the
4 transportation infrastructure that support the
5 community of Jacksonville, no different than a
6 highway, no different than a street, no
7 different than any public utility. The airport
8 system is a vital and critical part of the
9 transportation infrastructure to support and
10 sustain growth and life, quality of life in our
11 community.
12 So when you consider this, I would ask you
13 to consider the fact that unless the City of
14 Jacksonville believes that in 2008 going forward
15 it was going to stop growing, then as a policy I
16 would ask you to consider that the airport
17 system should grow accordingly.
18 There has continuously been requests to
19 increase the ability of Craig Airport. Why? In
20 our system there are four airports, and each one
21 of those airports serve a particular role. In
22 the case of Craig, the role is to serve as the
23 primary general aviation reliever airport to the
24 system.
25 What does that really mean? What it really
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1 means is that it is a facility that is designed
2 and operated to relieve the general aviation
3 traffic from our primary airport, which is
4 Jacksonville International Airport.
5 In order for this to be realized, we need
6 to enhance the facilities at Craig, extending
7 the runway, add safety, add operational
8 efficiency, and at the same time reduces an
9 impact of noise to the community going north and
10 west of the airport, of Craig Airport.
11 First and foremost, Craig operations
12 continue to grow every year. The jet activity
13 at Craig continues to grow, and that's why we
14 ask that you consider this. Just like any other
15 piece of infrastructure in this community where
16 there's greater and greater demands, decisions
17 have to be made to expand and extend those
18 infrastructures to support the growth.
19 We believe that, first and foremost, the
20 extension of the runway provides enhanced safety
21 of operations to a growing airport. Secondly,
22 it provides an efficiency to the overall
23 system. Thirdly, it provides growth opportunity
24 to our community overall.
25 I will stop there and be prepared to answer
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1 any questions that you may have.
2 Once again, we thank you for allowing the
3 process to continue. We think it has been a
4 healthy discussion with the residents of the
5 community and the council members that have been
6 representing the community.
7 I'm hoping at the end of this process that
8 there is an ability to create a win/win
9 situation, and a win/win is allowing an
10 extension and requiring mitigation to reduce the
11 impacts as much as possible on a growing
12 community.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Clark, is there anyone
15 else from the Airport Authority that's going to
16 speak?
17 MR. J. CLARK: That will be it.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
19 MR. J. CLARK: Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: We are now ready to hear
21 from the opposition. I asked Councilmember
22 Bill Bishop to organize that. I have a stack of
23 cards of requested speakers.
24 If it's okay with you, I'll just proceed
25 with that.
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1 MR. BISHOP: Mr. Chairman, that's fine.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
3 MR. BISHOP: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.
4 There is one slight change in there. We
5 would request that Senator King be the first
6 speaker this evening.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We can do that. We
8 will begin with Senator Jim King.
9 (Senator King approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Senator King, good evening
11 and welcome.
12 SENATOR KING: Thank you Mr. Chairman and
13 members. I really appreciate the opportunity
14 that you've given all of us to come and speak
15 our views.
16 This is an issue that's been near and dear
17 to the hearts of the people in Arlington for
18 such a long time. All the 22 years that I have
19 served in this office, both House and Senate,
20 this has been a burning bush item. I can think
21 of nothing that has galvanized the communities
22 as much as this particular issue has.
23 Quite frankly, the arguments that we're
24 hearing today are the same arguments we heard in
25 2000, the same arguments we heard in 1999, and
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1 I'm sure the same arguments that we heard in
2 1973. Extend the runway. Things will get
3 better. Things will be safer. Trust us.
4 Well, you know, I was the chief negotiator
5 of the agreement that existed between the then
6 Port Authority and the neighborhoods in
7 Arlington. And I will tell you that everybody
8 thought -- because I reported back to them at
9 the time -- that we were assured that there
10 would be a letter confirming that -- the
11 Authority's decision not to extend the runway.
12 There have been hundreds, perhaps even
13 thousands of binding decisions made predicated
14 upon that information, that Craig was what Craig
15 is. It was all it was going to be. It was not
16 going to be bigger. You're not going to get
17 more jets. You're not going to get more this or
18 that. And we thought and I thought when we did
19 it, that that would be the end.
20 Now, since that time, we keep on hearing
21 the arguments about safety. Quite frankly,
22 while it may be true that the planes will be
23 higher and maybe even the noise quieter, the
24 fact still remains there's going to be more
25 planes. And, statistically speaking, that in
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1 itself, you know, gives rise to questions on
2 behalf of the residents as to the safety
3 factor.
4 You know, I'm not going to take a whole lot
5 of time because, first of all, I hope that
6 brevity will be rewarded. But, secondly, I also
7 feel that there are a lot of people here, who,
8 like me, live in that area and who have a right
9 and a need to express their views.
10 But I'd like to close by just saying this:
11 I'd like to speak to you politician to
12 politician. In the last decade we've all been
13 disappointed, whether you're Republican or
14 Democrat, by the esteem or the lack of esteem
15 that people hold the politicians of this country
16 because of things that were promised and not
17 delivered, because of things that were said that
18 weren't meant, and by actions on the part of
19 people after elections that refuted what they
20 had promised as being a representative of
21 government when they got elected.
22 You all have a unique opportunity tonight.
23 You have an opportunity to prove that you are a
24 part of the new breed and that what was said on
25 paper by people who they trusted then is of
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1 value now and that those citizens who felt
2 strongly that they had won the fight should
3 actually win the fight.
4 I hope that when this is all over with
5 you'll stand tall. You have a great opportunity
6 tonight. You show to the people of Jacksonville
7 and perhaps the people of the state that
8 politics -- that you can be an honest person in
9 politics, that you can bet on what people have
10 said. And I hope that you will take advantage
11 of the opportunity.
12 I've written every one of you a letter.
13 You know exactly how strongly I feel about this
14 issue. I would hope that when the vote tonight
15 is over with, you know, that our side will
16 prevail. I will also tell you, if that's not
17 the case, that just like, you know,
18 Mr. McCollum, you know, I understand that you
19 have to do what you have to do.
20 But for me it's clear. We fought the good
21 fight. We got an agreement from the Port
22 Authority. We even had the Port Authority,
23 under my insistence, write a letter confirming
24 the fact that that would be the case. We even
25 had them say that they would give back the
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1 $479,000 that was earmarked for acquisition of
2 right-of-way because they had given up totally
3 on the expansion of the runway.
4 Now, you know, what part of that doesn't
5 exist now? What part of that could be just
6 glazed over and said, well, that was then and
7 this is now?
8 I appreciate the time that you have given
9 me. I hope that the vote will be good for us,
10 and I wish you all a very, very good new year.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Senator King.
13 The next speaker is Lad Hawkins.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
16 My name is Lad Hawkins. I live at 1924
17 Holly Oaks Lake Road West.
18 I've worked as a professional planner in
19 Jacksonville for over 38 years. I provided
20 expert witness testimony in the field of
21 planning for 17 years. I've lived in Holly Oaks
22 for over 30 years.
23 I'm currently the president of the GACC,
24 which formed the CCC, which is the Craig
25 Community Covenant, which is the organization we
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1 formed to try and fight this battle.
2 I'm on the board of directors of Jax Pride
3 and the board of the Jacksonville Arboretum.
4 I've been active in community and civic
5 organizations for over 35 years.
6 The planning facts are that for over
7 17 years our comp plan has stated that runways
8 at Craig Field shall not be extended. Our comp
9 plan was developed through community consensus
10 and was based on sound planning principles.
11 Our last two planning directors,
12 Jeannie Fewell and Mike Saylor, opposed runway
13 extensions at Craig Field. The Arlington
14 Beaches CPAC, as well as the southeast CPAC,
15 have both unanimously voted to oppose extensions
16 at Craig Field. This is planning districts 1
17 and 2, which is half the people in all of
18 Jacksonville are in those two districts,
19 unanimously opposed this.
20 Now, this is the CPAC, citizen planning
21 advice. The planning advice is unanimous, don't
22 do this. There was a City Council resolution in
23 2000, sponsored by ten council members. JPA
24 passed a resolution in 2001, which Mr. King just
25 eloquently discussed. All the presidents and
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1 past council members from Districts 2 and 3 are
2 on record as opposing this extension.
3 Last night, the Riverside Avondale
4 Preservation met at a special meeting just to
5 take a position to support the Greater Arlington
6 Civic Council on this matter.
7 What has changed since 1990? Dames Point
8 Bridge and State Road 9A have been built, so
9 it's easier to get to JIA. Cecil Field is now a
10 civilian airport, and over 60,000 people have
11 moved into the area surrounding Craig Field.
12 All of these changes are strong planning-based
13 reasons not to extend the runways at Craig
14 Field.
15 Holly Oaks is frequently mentioned as
16 benefitting from this proposed runway
17 extension. I live in Holly Oaks. I can tell
18 you the people of Holly Oaks don't think this is
19 a good idea. I have walked door to door and
20 talked to everybody in Holly Oaks, and I haven't
21 talked to one person who said, whoopee, they're
22 going to move the runway back.
23 Holly Oaks is frequently mentioned over and
24 over again, but nobody mentioned the Villages of
25 Kernan, which is a PUD on the southeast end of
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1 this runway. It has 2,000 approved units, dead
2 at the end of the runway, and they're going to
3 move this runway a third of a mile closer to the
4 Villages of Kernan.
5 I don't know if you've looked at this plan,
6 but there's that and there's 385,000 square feet
7 of commercial dead at the end of the runway.
8 This is the corner of Kernan and Atlantic, the
9 northeast -- northwest quadrant. Nobody talks
10 about that. They're talking about Kensington.
11 They're talking about Holly Oaks. This is a
12 much bigger -- these are 20 units per acre,
13 multifamily units right dead at the end of the
14 runway, and they want to move it a third of a
15 mile. Is this safer?
16 Please keep the promises made to our
17 community and vote against this proposal.
18 Thank you very much.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hawkins.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was waiting for an
22 announcement.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you Gerald?
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, ladies and
2 gentlemen.
3 I'm Gerald Robichaud, and I reside at 1222
4 Raleigh Ridge Drive in Arlington.
5 For more than 38 years I've been a
6 professional aviator, first with the Navy and
7 Coast Guard serving my country for 21 years, and
8 then as a pilot for over 17 years at Northwest
9 Airlines. I've been trained in aviation safety
10 and aviation accident investigation and served
11 ten years on active duty in those positions.
12 I have the unique distinction of having
13 flown on every continent from Antarctica to
14 Australia, Europe to Asia, Africa and the
15 Americas. I have seen airports big and small,
16 and I come before you tonight to tell you that
17 Craig Airport fulfills its mission admirably and
18 safely. It does not need to be enlarged to make
19 it safer.
20 The overall safety record at Craig is
21 exemplary. There have been few accidents of any
22 kind, and the JAA cannot point to one in which a
23 too short runway was the cause. In the past ten
24 years, I could find only one incident of a
25 runway overrun, and that was caused by a pilot
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1 making an instrument approach when the airport
2 was fogged in below minimums. He tried to land
3 without a visual reference instead of going
4 around as required.
5 Even in that egregious case of pilot error,
6 the aircraft would have stopped on pavement had
7 the JAA been truly concerned about safety and
8 installed a paved clearway at the end of the
9 runway, something they've neglected for years.
10 Numerous times Mr. Clark and Mr. Stewart
11 have stood up here and said a longer runway is a
12 safer runway. Well, we don't dispute that, but
13 unlimited pavement could add only a fraction of
14 a percent of safety to runways or even
15 highways. But just like we haven't made
16 Atlantic Boulevard ten lanes wide with every
17 lane being a hundred feet, the FAA won't pave
18 limitless runways. The FAA says that Craig is
19 perfectly safe for the aircraft that now operate
20 there.
21 In response to my written questions,
22 Mr. Richard Owens of the regional office in
23 Orlando, which controls Craig, said this about
24 runway length, and I quote: Federal runway
25 length requirements provide for the safe
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1 operation of aircraft for which the runways were
2 designed. Adding additional runway length does
3 not appreciably increase the safety of
4 operations, end quote.
5 When Mr. Owen was asked whether the few
6 accidents at Craig justify lengthening the
7 runway, his one-word answer was "no."
8 "Safety" is an emotional word which the JAA
9 is using as their smoke screen to sell this plan
10 amendment. Again, when asked, the FAA rep said,
11 quote, we don't build runways longer for safety,
12 end quote. In fact, the newer, faster jets
13 brought in by a longer runway mixing with the
14 customary student-operated Cessnas can be a
15 formula for disaster. The JAA knows this. They
16 know they can't get Federal money to make Craig
17 safer because that's a specious argument. They
18 can only get it to make Craig suitable for
19 bigger aircraft.
20 These past four months you've been
21 presented by the JAA with an incessant drum beat
22 of the word "safety," "safety," "safety" without
23 the support of facts to show a safety problem.
24 In my professional opinion, extending the
25 runway will only increase the size, variety, and
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1 speed of aircraft using Craig without a
2 likelihood that such operations will be any
3 safer.
4 Thank you very much. Happy new year to
5 everybody.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Robichaud.
7 I show eight minutes and twenty seconds
8 left for the presentation.
9 Next on my list I have Hank Oltmanns,
10 followed by Barry Bobek, followed by Lake Ray.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, members of
13 the committee, thank you very much for giving us
14 this opportunity.
15 My name is Henry Oltmanns, better known as
16 Hank, except when I'm in trouble with my wife or
17 with my mother who's long since past. My
18 address is 12501 Masters Ridge Drive.
19 I would like to bring up an issue of
20 workforce housing. I am a director of the
21 National Association of Realtors Federal Housing
22 Committee, a Florida Association of Realtors
23 director, and member of the Attainable Workforce
24 Housing Subcommittee, Northeast Florida Regional
25 Council Affordable Housing -- Affordable
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1 Workforce Housing Task Force member, Northeast
2 Florida Association of Realtors member, and
3 president at this time.
4 I have sent a letter to each of you on
5 October 19th that is relevant to some remarks
6 I'm going to be making here. I've also been
7 involved in a program development that our mayor
8 is presenting to the employees of the City.
9 It's a program of home ownership made easy, and
10 it's designed for workforce -- attainable
11 workforce housing.
12 Jacksonville has a serious shortage of
13 attainable workforce housing, and there's an
14 unintended consequence of 2007-1240. It's been
15 mentioned briefly earlier, but I'd like to go
16 just a little bit deeper.
17 A planned unit development between 1,300
18 and 2,000 nonrental residential units, nonrental
19 at the request of your approval, is ideally
20 suited for attainable workforce housing. It's
21 on bus routes to the beaches and town, within
22 walking distance to a multitude of shopping
23 venues and also to elementary and middle schools
24 and have been approved in line with the current
25 comprehensive plan expectations.
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1 The units I'm speaking of are on the
2 northeast corner of the Kernan and Atlantic
3 Boulevard intersection. Extending the runway
4 would create a stigma on the desirability of
5 living in this property due to the law requiring
6 airport noise disclosures by sellers to
7 prospective purchasers. This would affect the
8 developer initially selling and would affect
9 also any resales by people that made that
10 purchase.
11 Expansion would be incrementally
12 devastating to the value as the size of
13 aircraft, accompanying noise pattern, expansion
14 and noise severity grows, controlled only by the
15 whims of JAA and its questionable commitment to
16 limitations and protection of the property
17 rights of our citizens.
18 Current use by recreation on the light
19 business aircraft has had a minimal effect on
20 the airport proximity value that is beyond the
21 noise notice zone. Property proximity to
22 increased and larger aircraft operations will
23 result in a 4 percent up to 27 percent reduction
24 due to the added noise and the added proximity
25 and flight of aircraft.
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1 The proximity value of the surrounding
2 property owners, as documented in the October
3 19th letter that I sent you, referring to the
4 California research on this subject, there will
5 be over 3 percent additional value reduction for
6 noise zone disclosure properties as determined
7 in the Virginia Tech research that also I sent
8 to you in that letter. JAA's presentation
9 states an even greater percent value loss due to
10 disclosure requirements.
11 I urge you to stop this expansion request
12 and attack on the private property rights and
13 the district devaluation in owners' -- distinct
14 devaluation of owners' largest lifetime
15 investments.
16 I would also remind you that in the letter
17 I sent you reporting the 4,300 members of the
18 Northeast Florida Association of Realtors Board
19 of Directors has expressed their interest in
20 keeping this runway from being expanded.
21 Thank you very much.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Oltmanns.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You have just over four
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1 minutes -- or just under four minutes
2 remaining.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 My name is Barry Bobek. I'm here as counsel on
5 behalf of the Craig Covenant Committee.
6 You may consider my background in land use
7 planning and litigation or you may consider me
8 like Mr. Goelz as just trying to get the message
9 out and not really an expert. The difference is
10 I have registered as a lobbyist.
11 There is a long running covenant between
12 Arlington citizens and this airport that says we
13 will peacefully coexist. The foundation for
14 that peace is a limitation on the field itself.
15 The speed, size of the aircraft, and noise can
16 be limited only by runway length.
17 However, I wish to address the issue of
18 consistency with the 2010 comp plan as that
19 issue will be considered in the formal review
20 process before a hearing officer if the Planning
21 Commission recommendation to you is defeated
22 tonight.
23 The number one goal of the planning -- comp
24 plan housing element is to develop stable and
25 definable neighborhoods with safe, sound, and
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1 affordable homes. Does enabling fully-loaded
2 60,000-pound airplane loads to land at this
3 airport extend or support that goal,
4 neighborhood stabilization and the issue and the
5 housing element with objective 1.4 of preserving
6 and protecting residential neighborhoods?
7 Four thousand feet of runway, ladies and
8 gentlemen, are like speed bumps. Do you really
9 want to take them out?
10 Your policy 144 is that commercial and
11 other residential uses shall not be expanded.
12 That's your comprehensive plan. Your new
13 Part 10 on airports requires notice to
14 developers and buyers of property that there's
15 an environmental impact expected from a nearby
16 airport.
17 Now, on the other hand, your policy is to
18 create regulatory incentives for infill
19 projects, increasing infill in neighborhoods
20 like those around Craig. Will notice of
21 aircraft noise or soundproofing requirements as
22 required by the new Part 10 be an incentive to
23 infill projects?
24 Will the Planning Department's housing
25 services division continue your written policy
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1 of publicizing the cost benefit of infill
2 housing to developers in Arlington but at the
3 same time require airport noise notices to be
4 acknowledged before a notary public?
5 Perhaps the housing element text on
6 substandard housing or trickle-down housing
7 should be part of your deliberations since none
8 of the 2,000 units in the immediate vicinity can
9 be retrofitted with sound insulation now
10 required by your Part 10.
11 I'm going to skip several aspects of my
12 remarks because I see the light has gone on.
13 There are several parts of the
14 transportation element that have been overlooked
15 or misapprehended, I believe, by the Planning
16 Department, but this matter was settled 17 years
17 ago when the prohibition against extending the
18 Craig Airport runway was written into the
19 comprehensive plan. It's never been sent to
20 mediation as required by the plan. Instead,
21 it's been reaffirmed by successive City
22 Councils, airport authorities, and planning
23 directors.
24 We respectfully submit in the words of the
25 comprehensive plan that, quote, for Jacksonville
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1 to grow in a manner which benefits its citizens,
2 it is imperative that the City recognize and
3 preserve the integrity of its established
4 neighborhoods and prevent intrusion into these
5 communities as facilities necessary for the
6 support of growth are put in place.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bobek.
9 We have finished both the presentations.
10 We will now continue with public speaking cards
11 in the order in which I received them -- the
12 Legislative Services Division received them,
13 actually.
14 I will remind you, if you have had your
15 point expressed already, you can wave your hand
16 and indicate your willingness not to speak, and
17 I'll indicate what you have on your card,
18 whether you support or oppose this project.
19 Our next speaker -- and each speaker will
20 be limited to three minutes. From this point
21 forward is former Councilmember Lake Ray. He
22 will be followed by former Councilwoman
23 Lynette Self.
24 As I call your name, if you could go ahead
25 and make your way forward. That will help us
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1 expedite the process as well.
2 After Lynette Self is Cathy Whatley.
3 (Mr. Ray approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening. Welcome back.
5 MR. RAY: Good evening. Thank you for the
6 opportunity to speak.
7 My name is Lake Ray. I live at 8729
8 Fort Caroline Road.
9 I'm very surprised that I'm here speaking
10 before you this evening because I thought we had
11 a deal struck seven years ago. In fact, I know
12 we had a deal struck seven years ago. I'm very
13 troubled at the fact that I'm back, not because
14 I'm not back here to see some of my former
15 friends and colleagues and some of my
16 successors, but because I'm here because
17 somebody says we have a safety issue or we want
18 to do something that's been almost a half a
19 century in the fight.
20 I'm terribly troubled when I'm standing
21 before you this evening, and I know that we have
22 some people who are very well-intentioned.
23 They're doing what they're supposed to do as the
24 Airport Authority. They're bringing to us
25 opportunities of business, and that's what they
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1 should do. But once a decision has been made,
2 you don't go back on it. You don't undo your
3 deals. You don't go back and lose your public
4 trust.
5 We have a crime problem here in the city.
6 It troubles me when I see on the TV that our
7 sheriff has no trust, and people won't trust the
8 sheriff. It's unconscionable to me that that's
9 the case, but it is. And yet I stand before you
10 tonight because there's an issue of trust and an
11 issue of credibility, an issue of integrity.
12 You know, we can look at this, and we're
13 going to try to, I'm sure, probably look at this
14 like a zoning deal. This isn't a zoning deal.
15 This is not -- this is an issue that never
16 should have been before you. It should never,
17 ever have been before you.
18 Councilman Shad, there's been issues when I
19 was on the council. We addressed those in your
20 area. We addressed those with you, Councilman
21 Corrigan, protecting your area. Councilman
22 Webb, we've represented many of the issues in
23 your area.
24 This is about our community. This is about
25 trust. This is about integrity.
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1 You know, the -- when I was elected, it was
2 always an interesting thing to me. Shortly
3 after I was elected, I started getting these
4 letters that said honorable, the honorable, the
5 honorable. I kind of thought, well, what was I
6 before?
7 The reality is you're the honorable council
8 members, and my community needs you to act
9 honorably and to respect the years that they
10 have fought. You may not see as many of them
11 out here. My goodness, the reason you won't see
12 as many of them out here is because they fought
13 it for so long. They don't have any trust.
14 They don't have any confidence.
15 But you have an opportunity to reinstill
16 that confidence in them. And I trust and I hope
17 that you will do the honorable thing, that you
18 will protect the citizens of our community and
19 that you will do what is right in protecting
20 your honor and the honor of our city and vote
21 against the extension.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, former
24 Councilmember Ray.
25 Former Councilwoman Lynette Self, followed
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1 by Cathy Whatley, followed by Dianne Wiles.
2 (Ms. Self approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening. Welcome back.
4 MS. SELF: Good evening. Thank you,
5 Mr. Chairman. I told you all I would be back,
6 and here I am. I do thank you for listening to
7 us and considering what the community has to say
8 on this issue.
9 I'm just going to give a brief history,
10 because I only have three minutes, of what's
11 been going on out in this district.
12 In the 1970s, there was a study that was
13 done that stated the airport -- that Craig
14 Airport should purchase additional property
15 around Craig Airport if it wants to expand at
16 any time in the future. That study was not
17 adhered to. It was put on the shelf, like so
18 many studies are done.
19 In 1974, there was a master plan that was
20 put out, but it didn't incorporate that study
21 into their master plan.
22 In the mid 1980s, then director
23 Paul DeMariano (phonetic) wanted to make a
24 presentation and have the runway extended.
25 Actually, former Councilman Jim Tullis at that
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1 time was on the council, and he held a town
2 meeting. At that town meeting, there were over
3 800 people that attended that meeting to say we
4 do not want this to be extended. That sentiment
5 has not changed.
6 In 1990, the comprehensive plan was
7 adopted, and it stated that the runway shall not
8 be extended at Craig Airport.
9 There is some information before you.
10 Hopefully, you've had the opportunity to read
11 it. It's the Woodward report that the Planning
12 Department listened to. And the Woodward report
13 states, quote, it is nearly impossible to
14 recreate the circumstances leading to the early
15 1990s policy decision. So the only reference
16 points are the data and the presentation
17 included in the Craig Airport master plan update
18 prepared by Prosser Hallock, Inc., and TriState
19 Planning and Engineering, P.C., dated October
20 2001.
21 I find it interesting that JAA is starting
22 the history of Craig's runway extension debate
23 in the year 2001. The Legislative Services
24 Division certainly keeps great records, and if
25 they wanted any records on the history of how we
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1 got to that 1990 comprehensive plan, certainly
2 they could have had a public records request.
3 Many, many people could have offered information
4 on what happened before the 2010 plan was
5 adopted.
6 If we fast forward to 1999, I was elected
7 in 1999 to represent the citizens of
8 District 2. One of the first issues that hit me
9 was let's extend the Craig runway. I'm like,
10 wait a minute. Are we going to do this again?
11 Are we going to do this every time we have a
12 newly-elected official?
13 I held a town meeting, and we had --
14 Mr. Clark was there. We had probably about
15 80 to 100 people. It's hard to remember, but it
16 was about that many people, and none of them
17 wanted the runway to be extended. That
18 sentiment has not changed.
19 In 2001, we had the split come before us,
20 and one of the things that I said is I cannot
21 support that split when I have Craig hanging
22 over the community's head. That's when
23 Mr. Marty Fiorentino, then board chair, came to
24 me and said, hey, if I can get the board to
25 agree not to ever revisit Craig Airport, will
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1 you agree to the split? And I did.
2 I'm sorry I'm out of time because I really
3 wanted to read something to you.
4 It was a promise to the community. It is
5 about integrity; it's not about safety. And I
6 would ask you to please support the community.
7 They've been supported for 30 years. Nothing
8 has changed except the fact that we have more
9 people that live there.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 Cathy Whatley, followed by Dianne Wiles,
13 followed by Beverly Garvin.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
17 I'm Cathy Whatley. I live at 10932
18 Raley Creek Drive South.
19 I'm the owner of Buck & Buck Realtors, a
20 company that's 100 years old, and we developed
21 Holly Oaks Forest before Craig Field was ever
22 there.
23 There have been many growth-related
24 decisions made since the initial comp plan was
25 adopted in 1990, including the Port Authority
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1 leasing the property immediately adjacent to
2 Craig Field from Mill Cove Golf Course.
3 Comp plans can be amended, but there are
4 strong reasons why this provision in our comp
5 plan shouldn't. There are very few places in
6 the volumes of documents that make up our plan
7 where you will find language this specific about
8 a particular issue voted on not once, but twice
9 by City Council. It's not there by accident.
10 The level of specificity is in this plan for a
11 reason.
12 Between 2000 and 2007, over 22,000 new
13 residents have moved into the area within a
14 five-mile radius of my office on Merrill Road,
15 which is about one-and-a-half miles from Craig
16 Field, and we're directly in the flight path.
17 That number is expected to increase by an
18 additional 18,500 people over the next five
19 years.
20 Families have a right to rely on decisions,
21 especially long argued ones made by policy
22 makers, when determining where to live, and many
23 families have done that since 1990.
24 I've had the privilege to serve on many
25 boards, Florida's Commission on Ethics,
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1 president of the National Association of
2 Realtors, and currently on the JEA board. While
3 there have been times that I didn't totally
4 agree with a policy that had been adopted by a
5 previous board, in my mind the right of the
6 community and/or the member to rely on those
7 policies remaining consistent far outweighed any
8 potential benefit of changing the direction.
9 In 2001, the chairman of the board, who had
10 the authority to speak on its behalf, publicly
11 stated JPA was withdrawing its decision to
12 lengthen the runway and was returning funds that
13 were earmarked for the project. If the board
14 members disagreed with those publicly-stated
15 positions, they had a fiduciary responsibility
16 at that time to speak out and correct the
17 record, especially since it not only addressed
18 policy but funding. That didn't happen.
19 JAA's reason for wanting the extension
20 hasn't changed. Hopefully, your response will
21 not change either. I ask you to deny this
22 request.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Whatley.
24 Our next speaker is Dianne Wiles, followed
25 by Beverly Garvin, followed by Helen Ludwig.
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
4 Dianne Wiles, 10663 Hemming Road,
5 Jacksonville, Florida 32225.
6 My husband and I bought our home over eight
7 years ago. When we bought our home, the 2010
8 comp plan stated the runways could never be
9 extended. We invested our life savings in our
10 home.
11 We accept Craig as it is, even though the
12 noise and air traffic has increased
13 significantly over the years I have lived in
14 Holly Oaks.
15 Our community is asking you to keep the
16 promises made to us. Limit the air traffic to
17 what the airport can currently handle safely.
18 The Jacksonville Planning and Development
19 Department has also broken their promise with
20 the staff report recommending approval of
21 2007-1240. It's already been mentioned and it's
22 attached in your handout, the statement from the
23 Planning and Development Department in 2000.
24 There was also a resolution that's been
25 talked about by ten City Council members, that
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1 is also included in your handout, expressing
2 opposition to the runway extension.
3 Also, the infamous letter of May 29th,
4 2001, is included in your handout, and it
5 states, "There are no" -- the JPA states, "There
6 are no plans, either now or in the future, to
7 extend the runway at Craig Airport. And, in
8 fact, at today's board meeting we voted to
9 unanimously return over $469,000 to the Florida
10 Department of Transportation for land
11 acquisition at Craig Airport. This money would
12 have been used for future development of Craig
13 Airport and additional land acquisition to be
14 used as a buffer to protect the boundaries of
15 the airport should there ever have been a runway
16 expansion."
17 It has also been covered about the 1973
18 staff report where they were, again, told to
19 acquire land if they wanted to extend the
20 runways.
21 So many times over the last few decades,
22 land acquisition was not enforced to protect our
23 neighborhoods. The City has allowed and
24 continues to allow development in close
25 proximity to the airport. Where is the safety
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1 here?
2 The JAA has leased the land next to my home
3 for a drugstore and bank, removing the only
4 buffer left for the Holly Oaks neighborhood.
5 Safety or concern for the surrounding community
6 is clearly not the reason for their current
7 actions.
8 In 2001, John Clark personally came into my
9 home and also another one of my neighbor's home
10 and promised JAA would stop their efforts to
11 develop this land since it was a much needed
12 noise buffer for our neighborhood.
13 JAA has betrayed our community once again
14 with the PUD application that is currently in
15 the works for this parcel of land that is just
16 2,000 feet from the end of the runway protecting
17 our homes.
18 JAA has stated that the runway extension
19 will make for a quieter airport. The aircraft
20 will take off higher over our homes. In a
21 conversation at the Planning Commission with
22 Chip Seymour, director of planning at JAA, I
23 asked him how much higher will the jets fly over
24 my home. His answer was 50 feet.
25 When we are talking about jet noise, is
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1 50 feet going to make a significant difference
2 in noise? And how is increasing air traffic by
3 tens of thousands of flights per year going to
4 make Craig a quieter airport? This increase
5 will be more significant if Craig is allowed to
6 extend the runways.
7 Can I just finish my last statement, one
8 more sentence?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Make it quick.
10 MS. WILES: The quality of life needs to be
11 preserved for our neighborhoods surrounding
12 Craig Airport. Please keep the many promises
13 made to our community and stop the nightmare
14 that this community has had to endure over and
15 over again for 30 years.
16 Thank you. Happy new year.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Wiles.
18 The next speaker is Beverly Garvin,
19 followed by Helen Ludwig, followed by
20 Jill Sanders.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 My name is Beverly Garvin. I live at 1738
25 Holly Oaks Lake Road East.
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1 My husband and I have lived there for over
2 30 years. And like a few others, I can't
3 believe that I'm standing here again talking to
4 you about Craig Airport.
5 Based on JAA's promise to the City of
6 Jacksonville in the year 2000, many Arlington
7 community -- people in the Arlington community
8 have bought homes, improved their homes,
9 improved their businesses, enlarged their
10 businesses, and invested a lot of money in their
11 life in the Arlington area. New residents
12 purchased businesses and homes believing the
13 words of the JAA.
14 John Clark told the City Council in 2007,
15 in October of 2007, that the JAA lied when they
16 told the City of Jacksonville that they were
17 never going to pursue the extension of the
18 runway in the year 2000. They were looking to
19 get the JAA -- the promise -- they did the
20 promise in order to get the JAA and the Port
21 Authority -- to get them separated.
22 The JAA told falsehoods to curry favor, and
23 I believe that the JAA is trying to curry favor
24 again with the lobbyists, the CEOs, the wealthy
25 executives of private businesses at the expense
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1 and disregard to the neighbors and people that
2 live in the area.
3 JAA lacks credibility. They lack it on
4 this and many issues. We have no reason to
5 trust them when they say they don't want to
6 increase capacity or traffic at Craig Airport.
7 JAA has had due process. I listened to
8 Mr. McCollum talk about the process in
9 allowing -- they've had process over and over
10 and over again, and they've been told no over
11 and over and over again. They don't know what
12 the word "no" means.
13 The City planners have rejected it, City
14 officials have rejected the plan over the last
15 30 years, and I ask you to do the same tonight,
16 to tell them no again.
17 I listened as John Clark talked about why
18 they needed it and why they wanted to amend the
19 comp plan. Jacksonville is not going to stop
20 growing. None of us want it to stop growing.
21 We love Jacksonville, but we don't need four
22 airports in Jacksonville. And the JIA is not an
23 overused airport. The corporate jets that fly
24 in there can fly into JIA as well as they can
25 fly into Craig.
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1 Thank you very much.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Garvin.
3 Our next speaker is Helen Ludwig, followed
4 by Jill Sanders, followed by Dave Evans.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
8 My name is Helen Ludwig. I live at 3528
9 Majestic Oaks Drive, Jacksonville, 32277.
10 I am the chairman of the Greater
11 Arlington/Beaches CPAC, and I am speaking
12 against the Craig Airport request.
13 I wish to remind you that in 1993 Mayor
14 Austin had a vision for a stronger and more
15 proactive community and he established the
16 Community and Neighborhood Outreach and
17 Participation Program.
18 Mayor John Delaney continued this idea with
19 six Citizen Planning Advisory Committees or
20 CPACs as we now know them.
21 Each district has grown and matured in
22 response to the particular district's needs.
23 Effective government requires sustained public
24 participation in the identification of community
25 and neighborhood issues and concerns and the
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1 development of solutions.
2 This program continues to flourish as a
3 testament to Mayor Austin's vision. Mayor John
4 Peyton continues to value and support the CPAC
5 program and to make decisions and set policies.
6 The citizens of the CPAC areas are the best
7 resource for identifying issues and solutions.
8 Please consider seriously to the fact that two
9 of the largest CPACs in town, the Greater
10 Arlington/Beaches CPAC and the Southeast CPAC,
11 have adopted unanimous resolutions against the
12 plan to expand the runways at Craig Airport.
13 I believe that concludes my comments. I'd
14 like you to remember that the CPAC works
15 diligently on everybody's behalf to present with
16 you ideas and solutions.
17 Thank you very much. Good evening.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Ms. Ludwig.
19 Our next speaker will be Jill Sanders,
20 followed by Dave Evans, followed by Rusty Russ.
21 As Ms. Sanders comes forward, if you're
22 going to -- have something to pass out, when I
23 call your name, go ahead and bring it up, we'll
24 get it passed out so we'll have it when you're
25 ready to speak.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sorry.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: That's okay.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, council
4 members.
5 My name is Jill Sanders. I live at 12351
6 Brighton Bay Trail North, Jacksonville, Florida
7 32246.
8 My husband was originally slated to speak
9 this evening and we didn't know if he was going
10 to be able to make it, and he is here, so I
11 would like to cede my time to him, please.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address, please.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER:
15 Brighton Bay Trail North.
16 The JAA has repeatedly stated that Craig is
17 currently classified as a C-2 airport.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Could you pull that
19 microphone up a little bit and speak a little
20 bit louder?
21 MR. SANDERS: (Complies.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 MS. SANDERS: The JAA has repeatedly stated
24 that Craig is currently classified as a C-2
25 airport. We even asked the director in a
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1 meeting two weeks ago how long has Craig been
2 classified C-2. His answer was, "As long as I
3 can remember, and I've been there 13 years."
4 If you will turn your attention to the
5 overheads, page 1. This is a copy of a portion
6 of the airport layout plan, dated 1994, that
7 shows Craig is class B-2.
8 We verified this as current with a call to
9 Mr. Owens at the FAA, although he said a change
10 was in the works.
11 If you haven't approved the change to the
12 comprehensive plan, how could it be in the
13 works?
14 Just to refresh your memory, the LPA
15 proposal presented in August -- page 2 on your
16 overheads -- shows it as B-2. It needs to be
17 upgraded to C-2.
18 What is significant about this change is
19 not the wing span of the aircraft that operate
20 there. That is the same whether it's B-2 or
21 C-2. But the approach speed that they must come
22 in at -- if you would please go to page 3 --
23 does change the approach speed.
24 I've shown the alpha indicators which
25 relate approach speed with A as less than
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1 105 miles per hour, B is 105 to 109 miles per
2 hour, and C with 139 to 162 miles per hour. The
3 difference between B-2 and C-2 is huge.
4 While their plan doesn't increase the wing
5 span of the planes, it allows much larger and
6 heavier aircraft to operate here.
7 The O'Neill & Associates December 7th,
8 2007, report refers to the approach speed of B-2
9 but only in knots. They make no mention of the
10 criteria, approach speed of C-2 aircraft, not
11 even in knots.
12 What all the consultants keep doing is
13 refer to knots rather than miles per hour
14 because only a few can relate to knots.
15 Do the JAA and the consultants not know how
16 to put things in layman's terms or is it
17 deliberate?
18 The JAA and their various consultants say
19 the planes won't be bigger. That can only refer
20 to wing span. It's not our job to be
21 aeronautical engineers, but we don't have to be
22 to understand that larger planes land and take
23 off at higher speeds.
24 If you would please go to page 4 on the
25 overhead.
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1 This shows the jet aircraft currently based
2 at Craig. Please note that all are class B-2
3 and the heaviest plane is approximately 23,000
4 pounds.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
6 MR. SANDERS: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Sanders.
8 Our next speaker is Dave Evans, followed by
9 Rusty Russ, followed by Stephen Price.
10 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: To continue for
13 Mr. Sanders, my name is David Evans. I live at
14 2007 Hovington Circle West, Jacksonville,
15 Florida.
16 On the overhead, on page 5, I want to show
17 you a Cessna 172 that is widely used at Craig as
18 a training plane and constitutes a very large
19 number of operations there.
20 The next page, on 6, shows another typical
21 airplane, as well as the one after that.
22 They're small, light aircraft, and this is what
23 you see mostly at Craig Field.
24 I repeat, the heaviest jet base there
25 weighs about 23,000 pounds. In fact, I think a
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1 little less than that.
2 Page 11 on your overhead -- skip down to
3 number 11, if you would -- shows a list of
4 aircraft they claim are operating there
5 currently. On this list, there are four planes
6 that are listed as C-2, although there are maybe
7 two others that should be, the Dassault Falcons
8 10 and 50.
9 Look at fuel capacities of these planes.
10 As their weight goes up, so does their fuel.
11 They concede the Bombardier 605 doesn't
12 operate there yet.
13 The extension is supposed to be for
14 safety.
15 As we go through these next pictures, you
16 will see their weight, fuel, capacity, takeoff
17 length, dry takeoff length, wet, at 90-plus
18 degrees.
19 Page 12 shows a Gulfstream 1200 -- G-200,
20 34,800 pounds; 2,193 gallons of fuel; takeoff
21 length, 6,080 feet, dry; 8,040 feet, wet, at
22 90 degrees.
23 Page 14, Dassault Falcon, 2000-EX, 35,800;
24 1,814 gallons of fuel; takeoff length,
25 5,440 foot, dry; 7,194 foot, wet, at 90 degrees.
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1 Cessna Citation X, 36,000 pounds, 1,925
2 gallons; takeoff length, 5,140, dry; 6,797 wet,
3 at 90 degrees.
4 Bombardier 605, which is the same as the
5 CRJ -- that shows the CRJ there. 48,205, etc.
6 The Dassault Falcon, page 17, 900-EX, is
7 48,000; it takes 6,000 feet dry, 8,000 feet wet,
8 at 90 plus.
9 That's right. That last one carries five
10 tons of fuel, and many of the others that will
11 come here will approach that number.
12 For the safety of us who live near there,
13 join us in opposing any extension of the runway
14 at Craig.
15 The JAA has also said that there would be
16 three town meetings. I haven't found out yet
17 where any of those town meetings are. They
18 announced this at the Craig Citizens Advisory
19 Council meeting in August and they did it again
20 at the CPAC meeting in September.
21 Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Evans.
23 Our next speaker is Rusty Russ, followed by
24 Stephen Price, followed by
25 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, ladies and
3 gentlemen.
4 Thank you, again, for letting us speak to
5 y'all this evening.
6 Many of y'all have seen me up here before.
7 My name is William C. Russ. I live at 1516
8 Derringer Road, which is adjacent to Craig
9 Airport. I've lived there for 30 -- or 20-plus
10 years. I'm also an instrument-rated pilot. I
11 have flown in and out of Craig also since 1976.
12 I want to set the record straight tonight
13 too. I am not a paid consultant, but I am a
14 concerned citizen, so that's why I'm here.
15 You might recall I did invite y'all on
16 several past occasions to come spend the night
17 at my house. I'm sure y'all remember that. One
18 person has called me, believe it or not, and
19 that was John.
20 Thank you, John.
21 But John, you know, due to scheduling
22 circumstances, he didn't come by to find out
23 about the air noise that we've got at night.
24 By the way, I was awakened this morning at
25 3:34 by a plane taking off out of Craig.
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1 I want to skip over a number of things, but
2 I've got one or two just concerns I'd like to
3 bring up with y'all.
4 My biggest concern is the larger jets that
5 will inevitably come into Craig due to the
6 longer runways and this greater amount of jet
7 fuel, as just previously mentioned, that will be
8 loaded for flights.
9 Currently, small planes flying in and out
10 of Craig hold somewhere between 40 and
11 90 gallons of fuel. Larger jets using Craig, or
12 that will use Craig in the future, hold upwards
13 of 2,500, 3,500 or more gallons of jet fuel when
14 they take off -- or would take off.
15 According to a National Transportation
16 Safety Board document that I printed off of
17 their Web site this morning is a list, over the
18 last 15 years, of crashes at Craig Airport.
19 I'd like to give this to somebody for the
20 record.
21 But basically it shows, again, that over
22 the last fifteen years there have been nineteen
23 documented crashes with nine fatalities. These
24 crashes primarily were small airplanes with
25 very, very little fuel. Crashes with much
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1 larger jets, with much more fuel could be
2 devastating at each end of the runway.
3 Who amongst you wants to know that your
4 decision tonight played a part in such a
5 possible crash into Kensington or into
6 Holly Oaks communities at the end of the two
7 runways and the impact that fuel could cause?
8 At the planning meeting last month, a young
9 lady stood up and talked to the Planning
10 Commission. She was from Louisiana, and some
11 years ago her home was destroyed and her
12 neighborhood was destroyed by a crash of a jet,
13 and today that neighborhood still has not
14 returned to its previous state, prior to the
15 crash.
16 Thank you for your time. I hope y'all make
17 the right decision.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Russ.
19 Our next speaker is Stephen Price, followed
20 by
21 [sic], I believe it is.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 I'm Stephen Price. I'm a native of
25 Jacksonville. I reside at 1415 First Street
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1 North, Jacksonville Beach.
2 I'm also a pilot and an aircraft owner with
3 aircraft based at Craig Municipal Airport. I'm
4 also a Federal Aviation Administration safety
5 team representative for this area and an
6 appointed FAA aviation safety counselor.
7 I'm opposed to the runway extension at
8 Craig Municipal Airport.
9 As I told the City Council at the December
10 meeting, it is my opinion that lengthening the
11 runway at Craig will not make the airport
12 appreciably safer for the pilots and the
13 aircraft that currently use the facility, nor
14 will it make it safer for the surrounding
15 community.
16 How much runway is needed at Craig? The
17 ability of a specific aircraft to take off or
18 land safely is based on many factors, including
19 but not limited to weather issues, like wind
20 direction and speed relative to humidity and
21 temperature, and the weight of the aircraft in
22 question. All aircraft have these factors to
23 contend with prior to takeoff or landing.
24 The aircraft currently using Craig Airport
25 are operating within the safe limits of the
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1 facility and would not operate safer with more
2 runway.
3 Something they haven't told you is that if
4 you extend one of the 4,000-foot runways to
5 6,000 feet, you will need to widen it from
6 100 feet to 150 feet to make it safe for the
7 larger aircraft that are now using it.
8 In comparison, Cecil Field has four runways
9 that are 200 feet wide and are much better
10 equipped to handle the larger aircraft that the
11 JAA has envisioned for Craig Airport.
12 The JAA says this is about safety. I don't
13 believe that. If safety were really an issue at
14 the airport, would they rent the taxiways to the
15 car dealers?
16 The car dealers have their own gates
17 independent of pilot-coded entry gates. People
18 with no interest in aviation with complete
19 access to our airports, they come and go all day
20 and demo their cars on airport property, often
21 without tags. They have more access to Craig
22 than pilots and aircraft owners. I believe this
23 is a violation of airport safety.
24 If safety were really an issue, would they
25 lease land to a cell tower? Yes, they have a
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1 cell tower on the airport.
2 Putting an obstacle on an airport isn't in
3 the interest of aviation safety; it's about
4 money. Actually, it's putting government in
5 competition with private business. Not what the
6 JAA should be about.
7 With that said, I believe the airport has a
8 responsibility to the community it serves. It's
9 not about aviation safety to the JAA; it's about
10 money. For money they have betrayed their word
11 about not extending the runway.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Price.
13 MR. PRICE: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is Roberta
15 Thomas, followed by J.F. -- I believe it's
16 Wilson or -- followed by John Bigelow.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: God evening.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
20 My name is
21 Drive West, Jacksonville, Florida 32277.
22 I am an appointed member of the Greater
23 Arlington CPAC, and I'm a member of the GACC,
24 and I serve as president of the Fort Caroline
25 Club Estates South Civic Association.
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1 Our neighborhood opposes the extension of
2 the Craig runways. We ask that you keep the
3 promise made to the City Council and to the
4 community.
5 Presently, this city has a very strong comp
6 plan which specifically forbids the extension of
7 the Craig runways. There is absolutely no
8 reason to amend the text of the existing comp
9 plan on the basis of safety.
10 I place in the record, right now, a copy of
11 all of the National Transportation Safety Board
12 factual reports and findings of the Craig
13 accidents or incidents from 1996 to 2007.
14 During these 12 years, I only found 14
15 incidents as being listed. That's an
16 outstanding record of safety. None of these
17 factual findings and reports show a cause linked
18 to a runway being too short. Instead, the
19 accidents are due to pilot errors, failure to
20 follow procedures, flying in bad weather when
21 advised not to, flying too low and clipping the
22 treetops, overweight aircraft, failure to apply
23 the correct brakes, mechanical problems, or
24 aircraft structural defects.
25 For the record, I have included the reports
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1 on the accidents which the JAA has been alleging
2 were due to a short runway. These reports,
3 which I have given to you, clearly show that the
4 JAA has been spreading falsehoods.
5 Even more indicative that there is not a
6 safety problem in regard to runway length is the
7 fact that most of these 14, or 19, whatever it
8 is, accidents, did not even occur on or at Craig
9 Airfield. The accidents were 1.8 miles away,
10 four miles away, in the woods or in the trees,
11 at Jax Beach, Ponte Vedra, JIA, St. Augustine,
12 or in residential neighborhoods.
13 As you can tell, these accidents had
14 nothing to do with either a long or a short
15 runway.
16 These NTSB reports are clear and
17 convincing, factual evidence that there is not a
18 safety problem in regard to the runways at
19 Craig. There is no justification to amend the
20 existing comp plan because of unsafe runways,
21 and I ask that you deny.
22 Now, changing to another little question or
23 comment, I would like to ask the City Council or
24 the LUZ to consider three other things that I
25 have some concerns about:
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1 Why is the text amendment -- and I did give
2 you a copy -- why does it address what appears
3 to be eminent domain? Is the JAA trying to be
4 greedy? It has nothing to do with runway
5 safety.
6 Why is there no condition in the text that
7 says it will prohibit or bar future extension
8 even if it's meaningless?
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Thank you,
11 Ms. Thomas.
12 Our next speaker is J.F. -- I believe it's
13 Wilson, followed by John Bigelow, followed by
14 Barbara Leis.
15 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think that might be
17 John Nilson.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Is it Nilson?
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Thank you.
21 I couldn't tell if it was an "n" or a "w."
22 I apologize.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: No problem.
24 John Nilson, 2172 West Brighton Bay Trail,
25 Jacksonville, Florida.
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1 I'm a retired military pilot. I flew
2 out -- I now -- I have flown out of Craig and
3 out of JIA many times. Right now I'm employed
4 by Northwest Airlines.
5 I was going to address some of the
6 technical things I heard today. One of the
7 things earlier was about the safety of airplanes
8 for taking off. One of the things that the --
9 this report I read today, it's out of Air Safety
10 Week. It's a study made by the FAA ten years
11 ago, and I'll just go ahead and read it
12 directly.
13 It says, "The usual culprit in failed
14 landings are slippery runways, landing too long
15 on a runway, and landing too fast on a runway.
16 "According to Jim White, a civil engineer
17 at the FAA, the best means of minimizing the
18 risk is to follow the FAA's requirement for
19 1,000 feet of overrun area on the runway."
20 The thing about JAA, they don't even
21 approach getting an overrun area, which is just
22 a paved area extended on the runway. It doesn't
23 require lights, it doesn't require lines, it
24 doesn't change the approach path of airplanes.
25 If all they wanted was safety, they would be
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1 doing that, not trying to increase the runway
2 length, which says they just want to get larger
3 airplanes in here.
4 One of the things I heard also was the --
5 it would be quieter at Holly Oaks, you know,
6 they say, because they have a displaced runway.
7 Well, displaced has nothing to do with takeoff.
8 So if you're moving 500 feet closer to a
9 neighborhood and with a larger airplane and
10 they're taking off, how can that be quieter?
11 They're just doing -- shoeing in
12 approaching, which has nothing to do with taking
13 off when an airplane is at max power.
14 Other things I heard were about higher over
15 homes. Common sense tells you that if you move
16 an approach pad 2,000 feet closer to a
17 neighborhood, well, if they're landing, they --
18 they're going to be lower over that
19 neighborhood. Just because --
20 If you take a -- the end of a runway and do
21 three degrees, while you move that closer,
22 you're going to be lower over neighborhoods, not
23 higher.
24 It's a common sense thing. I don't know
25 where they get their data, but flying for
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1 28 years, anytime the runway is extended, I know
2 you lower -- it's lower, so . . .
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Nilson.
5 Our next speaker is John Bigelow, followed
6 by Barbara Leis, followed by James Sommer.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: John Bigelow, 10572
9 Hemming Road, Jacksonville, Florida 32225.
10 I just wanted to address a couple of things
11 that were brought up in the meeting on the 13th,
12 along with some of the documents that have been
13 presented to the council members.
14 The first was JAA's assertion that there
15 was no intention to begin scheduled flights out
16 of the airport and that the use of an aircraft
17 with more than nine seats would be economically
18 unfeasible for the company providing these
19 flights.
20 I have a copy of an article from the
21 Jacksonville Journal, dated August the 3rd of
22 this year, stating exactly the opposite. The
23 JAA was, in fact, planning to start scheduled
24 flights four days a week to Atlanta.
25 I'd like to have this entered into the
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1 record.
2 Beyond that, the O'Neill & Associates
3 report presented to the council December the
4 7th, 2007, made many references to the
5 California land use planning handbook dated
6 January 2002. Particularly on page 12 of that
7 document, there's a scatter plot of accidents
8 and a red circle drawn around the scatter plots
9 showing that the 2,000-foot extension -- the
10 scatter plots would then be accidents that would
11 not happen. This is one of about 16 scatter
12 plots. What they're not showing you here is the
13 takeoff accidents that -- towards Holly Oaks
14 with a 6,000-foot runway, all the scatter plots
15 come toward my home.
16 Another thing is in that same document --
17 it is a 400-page document, an extensive study
18 done over 40 states and their accidents.
19 I've given each one of you a copy of a
20 level 1 safety zone. At 6,000 feet, that goes
21 four streets beyond Monument. It comes within
22 500 feet of Atlantic Boulevard. And even at
23 lengths under that, it's well into Holly Oaks.
24 On page 2, 3, and 4, you'll see that the
25 density level for the homes or people in those
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1 areas and that level 1 should be zero.
2 They're asking to actually place my home
3 directly into a level 1 zone, which should have
4 no one living there due to the safety issues.
5 And this was the document that the FAA used
6 to reference its safety issue. That's very
7 scary to me, that my wife and I and the home we
8 intend -- we intended to leave to our children
9 is going to be inside that zone.
10 Please take a careful look at this -- these
11 pages.
12 Thank you very much for your time, and
13 Happy New Year.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bigelow.
15 Our next speaker is Barbara Leis, followed
16 by James Sommer, followed by David Strickland.
17 Is Ms. Leis here?
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm not going to speak.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: She does not need to speak.
20 She's opposed.
21 Mr. Sommer.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Same.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: He doesn't need to speak.
24 He is opposed.
25 David Strickland.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: He has indicated he is
3 opposed.
4 Brian Gann, G-a-n-n.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: He does not need to speak.
7 He is opposed.
8 Manuel Bello --
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is opposed and does not
11 wish to speak.
12 T.H. Gilmore.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: He does not need to speak.
15 He is opposed.
16 John Fox.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: John Fox waives his right to
19 speak. He's opposed.
20 Pat Winghart.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see Winghart.
23 Geraldine Strickland.
24 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see them.
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1 Sally Yochem.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see Sally.
4 Chris Gilmore.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Chris Gilmore is opposed, is
7 here and is opposed.
8 George Schmiedel.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: He's here -- I apologize
11 about butchering your name -- is opposed.
12 Rosemary -- his wife.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm not going to try twice
15 and look bad. She is opposed.
16 Thank you for being here.
17 Michael Wood.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: He is here and is opposed.
20 Mark Heeter --
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
23 John Berg --
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
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1 Dianne Bradley --
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
4 Joe Shepard --
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Here.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
7 Sarah Pauser --
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
10 Karen Shepard.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
13 Linda, I'm not going to be able to
14 pronounce your last name.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: She is here and is opposed.
17 And I apologize, it begins with P, but I
18 cannot pronounce it.
19 Dale Parsons --
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
22 Jean Evans --
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
25 Julie Miller --
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
3 Paul Bathen --
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
6 David Shields --
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
9 Pamela Miller --
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
12 Tom LeGrand --
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
15 Franz Wallace --
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here and is opposed.
18 McKenna -- Andrew McKenna.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Here.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: He's here and is opposed.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm speaking.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry.
23 Come on up, sir.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: What name were you?
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Enrique Aquino.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, sir.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
4 My name [sic] Enrique Aquino, 1706 Hawkins
5 Cove Drive East, Jacksonville, Florida 32246.
6 I'm a disabled veteran and a volunteer
7 service officer and also the first
8 Vice Chairman for the Northeast Florida Veteran
9 Council.
10 I've worked for the Cecil Field, and we
11 lost because they don't want a jet and they want
12 the houses down there. Now I'm fighting for the
13 houses and I don't want the jets.
14 Anyway, we're fighting now for -- to have a
15 carrier in Mayport. And once we have that
16 nuclear carrier down there, we're going to need
17 more airspace for security and that five tons of
18 gas- -- (inaudible). It's not conducive for a
19 nuclear carrier, especially if a (inaudible) can
20 take off with a full tank of gas for a jet and
21 go joy riding all the way to Georgia. You know,
22 he could take off and just slam it down there in
23 a nuclear carrier.
24 Secondly, I'm also a -- licensed for
25 Florida state for water and waste water. We do
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1 have a water treatment plant down there next to
2 the Craig Airport, and we do have a well water
3 suction line down there. And at five tons,
4 that's 10,000 pounds, and that thing is just
5 like a jackhammer.
6 And on -- in summer, we're taking all that
7 water -- you know, Arlington is good for a sink
8 hole. And those 10,000 pounds keep bumping and
9 burning down there. You better check with JEA
10 first whenever we're running out of water down
11 there. That thing is probably going to sink
12 that darn runway down there. So you have to
13 check out on that if you're going to put those
14 massive jet [sic] coming down there.
15 Also, again, we got the Cecil Field that we
16 can use instead of Craig Airport. We can also
17 use the JIA. They got the A and G down there.
18 They got a runway that they can use for that.
19 Again, Cecil Field, they got all those
20 warehouses down there.
21 Blount Island is going to be the next port
22 for the next two years from now from the
23 southeast. And, again, St. Johns airport is --
24 is a hop because it's right next to the water.
25 Cecil Field is not.
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1 Again, please -- we want that nuclear
2 carrier. We want that money down there in
3 Jacksonville for Mayport, and we got the jets
4 going down there in Mayport. That's enough --
5 that's enough jets for here in East Arlington.
6 We don't want no more jets.
7 Like the other guy says, the takeoff -- I
8 spent seven years in carriers. Believe me,
9 they'll take off. The power takeoff, that makes
10 a lot of noise.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Aquino.
13 The next speaker card I have is Marie
14 Harris, followed by John Bigelow, followed by
15 Jay Olchak.
16 Mr. Bigelow, I believe you already spoke,
17 did you not?
18 MR. BIGELOW: Yes.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. I'm
20 sorry. I have two cards.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening,
23 Mr. Chairman and committee members.
24 My name is Marie Harris. I live at 1739
25 Holly Oaks Ravine Drive.
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1 It is a privilege to stand here before you
2 tonight, to have the freedom to voice my opinion
3 as a citizen of the United States, to follow our
4 hopes, our dreams, and to live in peace.
5 I live in the Holly Oaks subdivision. Our
6 land backs up to Raley Creek, which is
7 three-fourths of an acre and a natural buffer
8 zone, protecting us from the noise and pollution
9 from Craig Airport.
10 In 1986, over 30 years ago, my husband and
11 I cleared part of our land and had our beautiful
12 home built. We were in agreement in talking
13 with our builder that Craig Airport was not an
14 issue. Our builder said nothing about the
15 possibility of the expansion of Craig airfield.
16 If this is allowed, it is proven today with
17 facts, that our quality of life and property
18 values will be affected.
19 On December 19, 2007, just a few weeks ago,
20 there was an explosion of the chemical T2
21 plant. Flames shot up 200 feet and debris fell
22 hundreds of miles from the site. Buildings
23 shook and still beams were found lodged in
24 nearby buildings. People were injured and
25 killed. Interviewed people said it sounded like
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1 a bomb or a large plane. The explosion was the
2 size of a football field. If larger jets are
3 allowed, with the runway extension, that carry
4 much more fuel than planes that are currently
5 using Craig, we run the risk of a catastrophe
6 such as the T2 explosion.
7 There are too many residential homes now
8 that surround Craig Airport to safely expand the
9 runway. To my knowledge, there has not been any
10 accidents at Craig due to the length of the
11 runway. There have been accidents due to pilot
12 and mechanical error. There will most likely,
13 with increased flights, be more accidents.
14 We need to keep the airport as it is, the
15 way it was promised to be kept by the
16 2010 comprehensive plan, by Mayor Peyton, the
17 Jacksonville Planning and Development
18 Department, and the Jacksonville Port
19 Authority.
20 If you allow the runway to be extended,
21 this will change the whole character of the
22 airport and the size of the jets that land --
23 allowed to land at Craig.
24 The bottom line, more important than
25 anything else that will be said, the City gave
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1 its word to me and my neighbors. You are either
2 going to keep your word or you're not.
3 Thank you very much, and have a good new
4 year.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Harris.
6 Our next speaker is Jay Olchak, followed by
7 Anita Oltmanns, followed by Rebecca Donovan.
8 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
11 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, council members,
12 committee members.
13 My name is Jay Olchak, 11859 Ashbrook
14 Circle South.
15 I'm the chairman of the Sheriff's Advisory
16 Council, president of Ashton Park Homeowners
17 Association, and CPAC and GACC members.
18 I'm not going to take up too much of your
19 time. I'm just going to tell you that I do echo
20 the sentiments of Jim King -- Senator Jim King,
21 the Honorable Lynette Self, and the Honorable
22 Lake Ray.
23 This would be a bad idea. As someone who
24 is looking -- who's looking to serve with you, I
25 do echo these honorable people's statements.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Olchak.
3 The next speaker is Anita Oltmanns --
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: -- who is here and is
6 opposed, followed by Rebecca Donovan.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm right here.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Come on down.
9 She'll be followed by Rustin McIntosh,
10 followed by Jane McIntosh.
11 Or Mc- -- I think it's -- McIntosh, excuse
12 me.
13 I'm an equal opportunity offender in last
14 names, and I apologize.
15 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening. Go ahead.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
18 My name is Rebecca Donovan. I live at 2616
19 Cobblestone Forest Circle East, ZIP code 32225.
20 I am a resident of a neighborhood adjacent
21 to Craig Airport. I also work at Craig Airport.
22 My concern is for the safety of the
23 aircraft and personnel using the airport
24 today -- not tomorrow but today -- and for the
25 safety of the surrounding communities. I fear
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1 for the safety of both.
2 If the aircraft using Craig Airport today
3 are not given the runway length that they need
4 to operate their aircraft in the safest manner
5 possible, the safety of both communities is
6 compromised.
7 After doing some research, I am more
8 convinced than before that a longer runway at
9 Craig is safer. I have provided you with a copy
10 of the FAA advisory circular, 150-53-25-B. This
11 is a guideline that the FAA requires when
12 designing an airport or to determine proper
13 runway lengths for extensions.
14 On the last two pages of the document I
15 have provided you, I have highlighted for you
16 the aircraft that I see every day using the
17 airport.
18 Table 3.1 illustrates 75 percent of the
19 fleet mix and table 3.2 completes the fleet
20 mix.
21 I know this is kind of boring, but if you
22 could just bear with me.
23 Please refer to figure 3.1. For example,
24 75 percent fleet, 60 percent useful load curve
25 on the table provides a runway length sufficient
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1 to satisfy the operational requirements of 75
2 percent of the fleet at
3 60 percent useful load.
4 To use these figures, start at the
5 horizontal temperature access, then proceed
6 vertically to the airport elevation curve, and
7 then proceed horizontally to the vertical access
8 to obtain the necessary runway length.
9 Using this figure, we can insert the
10 relevant information based on the appropriate
11 fleet mix currently using Craig to determine the
12 runway length necessary.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Donovan, slow down just
14 a little bit so she can get it for the record.
15 MS. DONOVAN: I was afraid I would do
16 that.
17 If no adjustments to this length are
18 necessary, then this becomes the recommended
19 runway length.
20 It is mandated by this circular to add
21 15 percent to this calculation to factor in for
22 wet or slippery runways.
23 Using these charts to insert the
24 information for Craig, the mean daily maximum
25 temperature for Craig is 91.4 degrees. The
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1 elevation at Craig Airport is 41 feet above
2 sea level.
3 Using this data at only 60 percent of
4 useful load, the runway should be a minimum of
5 4,700 feet. This information is coming right
6 from the FAA.
7 Adding in the required 15 percent margin,
8 which would be 705 feet, for wet or slippery
9 runways, the necessary runway length then
10 becomes 5,400 feet.
11 If the aircraft from table 3.2 are
12 included, as this advisory indicates should be
13 included because we see them at the airport
14 today, these figures are increased to
15 5,500 feet. With the added 15 percent margin,
16 it would be -- 6,300 feet would be the
17 appropriate runway length for the aircraft
18 currently using Craig Airport.
19 Again, these figures are only for
20 60 percent of the useful load of the aircraft.
21 Based on these figures, I feel it's reckless to
22 limit the aircraft using Craig to only
23 4,000 feet.
24 Please extend the runway for the safety of
25 the community at Craig and for the safety of my
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1 home, which is located adjacent to Craig.
2 Please extend the runway.
3 Thank you for your time.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Donovan.
5 Our next speaker is Rustin McIntosh.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see them.
8 Followed by Jane McIntosh.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: They're both here in
11 support, but I do not see them.
12 Doug Lundeen.
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lundeen will be followed
15 by Greg Stritch and Morgan Miller.
16 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
19 Doug Lundeen, 9378 Arlington Expressway,
20 Jacksonville, 32225.
21 I am in support of the runway extension
22 program, and I'm a commercial pilot and licensed
23 aircraft mechanic employed at Craig for the last
24 three years.
25 Extending the runway will be safer for
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1 those of us who use Craig as well as those who
2 live and work in the surrounding area.
3 In my opinion, wise pilots like longer
4 runways because it's safer for takeoffs and
5 landings.
6 I will be brief. The other arguments have
7 been spoken, so I will pass.
8 Thank you for your time.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I appreciate
10 it. Thank you, Mr. Lundeen.
11 Greg Stritch -- Greg, I apologize, I can't
12 pronounce your last name --
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That was pretty good.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: -- followed by Morgan
15 Miller, followed by Jennifer Snore [sic], I
16 think.
17 I apologize, Jennifer.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That wasn't too bad,
20 Michael.
21 Greg Stritch, 574 Carina Lane, area code
22 32225.
23 Mr. Chairman, members of the committee,
24 members of the council, I'm always amazed
25 that -- especially somebody like me, you'd let
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1 us stand up here in front of God and everybody
2 and share our opinions.
3 I'm a pilot with an Air Force auxiliary
4 civil air patrol and the director of the
5 Starbase aerospace education program at the
6 125th fighter wing in the Florida International
7 Guard.
8 I've heard arguments over the last couple
9 of weeks from Mr. Russ, from Mr. Prince that
10 lengthening runways do not necessarily make a
11 safer runway. I've heard Mr. Price suggest
12 tonight that to lengthen the runway would mean
13 also to widen the runway. And, man, I'm amazed
14 that anybody can say anything.
15 A few weeks ago, as a parting shot, one of
16 my neighbors in my neighborhood -- and I live
17 right underneath the glideslope of Runway 32 in
18 the ILS system at Craig Field -- as a parting
19 shot, said that if we didn't believe that
20 Airbuses would be landing at Craig Field to call
21 them, call them personally when they start
22 landing.
23 Gosh, we're talking about lengthening a
24 runway by 2,000 feet, not widening it, not
25 making it thicker, just lengthening it
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1 2,000 feet. And for those of us who go up in
2 inclement weather and IMC conditions to search
3 for and rescue pilots who have found themselves
4 in the weeds, for us it's only, always, all
5 about safety.
6 And their argument that making it longer,
7 it's not going to make it safer -- our neighbors
8 have asked us to consider the growth of
9 Jacksonville and the communities in your
10 arguments tonight. I'm asking you to consider
11 the growth of aviation. We have more flight
12 schools and primary students at Craig Field than
13 we've ever had.
14 We get some primary flight student coming
15 in, bouncing in halfway down the runway,
16 floating half the rest of it. Wow, 2,000 feet
17 is only, ever, all about safety.
18 And I'm a little worried at why some of
19 the -- my neighbors and family members would
20 stand here and make some of the arguments that
21 they have, that making it longer will not make
22 it safer, that you've been lied to.
23 I can only imagine that their comment that
24 Airbuses will be landing at Craig is designed to
25 incite the neighbors, to instill fear, and to
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1 deceive you. And listening to the comments of
2 my neighbors, it's obviously worked.
3 Again, I'm asking you to consider, for
4 those of us in the civil air patrol, who
5 actually fly out of Craig Field in inclement
6 conditions to rescue those who found themselves
7 in trouble on bad nights, for us it's only, it's
8 always, it's ever been about safety.
9 Thanks.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Stritch.
11 Our next speaker is Morgan Miller, followed
12 by Jennifer -- maybe it's Jennifer Snow,
13 followed by Jeff Crawford.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Morgan Miller
17 at 13912 Atlantic Boulevard.
18 Good evening and thank you for your efforts
19 on this matter.
20 After participating in many of the
21 discussions concerning this runway issue, I've
22 seen blatant misinformation being propagated.
23 In fact, I just saw several people in opposition
24 misspeak what may be well-intended, but was some
25 real bad information, everything from the --
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 from the 50 feet to -- misconception. It's
2 actually several hundred feet, as you may
3 know -- to the changes in sound, the changes in
4 property values. They've kept in pace.
5 And I don't understand if you -- by the
6 way, if you have an FAA -- active FAA
7 individual, he's not legally authorized to speak
8 on behalf of the FAA by himself or use his
9 credentials. So I don't know who that
10 individual was, but they're not allowed to do
11 that. Bad form.
12 So the -- the thing I want to talk about
13 here is -- you know, certainly concerns have to
14 be aired and addressed, but repeatedly we've
15 seen all these concerns and items of
16 misinformation addressed with solid
17 information. It seems that the scare tactics
18 and false statements continue to be spread.
19 You see before you an example of a flier
20 put out by the opposition showing a jet coming
21 in low over homes. Well, that photograph has
22 been doctored. That is a fake photograph.
23 That plane is a Lufthansa, a German airline
24 plane, if you were to look at the lettering. We
25 actually looked at the tail number and figured
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1 out what it was. That's a commercial airliner
2 flying into Birmingham International. That's
3 where that photograph was taken. The houses
4 aren't there. That was added in and somehow
5 spliced together.
6 That plane cannot ever land at Craig at
7 6,000 feet. Even when you do some research and
8 it comes in at 5,800 feet, landing, where you
9 add the 15 percent and the fact that we had some
10 obstacles and the fact the insurance will not
11 allow it, it's not going to happen.
12 Certainly this extension is -- just from
13 the aspect alone -- I will soon be residing
14 right next to the runway, in fact, very shortly,
15 a little closer than I am now, and I definitely
16 want this extension in place just for my own
17 safety, my own values of my home.
18 I have personally flown in and out of that
19 airport. I have personally seen the limited
20 takeoff and landing distances at Craig, even
21 with smaller craft that fly in and out at
22 Craig. We need to establish this balanced
23 runway.
24 I've looked at the other safety measures at
25 the other airports, and nothing would be more
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1 safer than this extension.
2 The land buffer that we keep talking about
3 and this money that was sent back, well, the --
4 the single piece we're talking about, that land
5 buffer already exists. Yeah, it may be for
6 other sections. And the reason that money was
7 sent back is continually misrepresented on why
8 it was sent back. So, again, do some research
9 there.
10 The studies show -- and I've personally
11 seen -- the noise levels are indeed lower with
12 that longer runway, absolutely.
13 Now -- by the way, the Dorniers and the
14 Challengers do indeed fly in and out of there.
15 In conclusion, I just ask that you do look
16 at the bona fide facts and -- when deciding this
17 issue.
18 And I thank you for your time.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Miller.
20 Jennifer Snow or Snore. I cannot tell
21 which one it is --
22 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here in opposition. I
24 do not see them.
25 Jeff Crawford, followed by Lauren Price,
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1 followed by Mary Pauly.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Jeff Crawford.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Lauren Price.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Mary Pauly.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I oppose, but I'm not
9 speaking.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: She's here in opposition.
11 Nooney Ritacco --
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here in opposition.
14 Miles MacEachern.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Lucy MacEachern.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Michael Lewis --
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Opposed.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: -- is here in opposition.
21 Mary Anne Saadeh --
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: -- will be followed by
24 Atilla Kocs, K-o-c-s, followed by Everett
25 Garvin.
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1 Good evening.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mary Anne Saadeh, 5741
3 Atlantic Boulevard, 32207.
4 We've heard a lot of comment in opposition,
5 and for tonight -- I've asked this council -- I
6 know you're considering a bill that is -- has
7 been presented to you, but there must be some
8 other options that would deal with the growth of
9 Jacksonville. Jacksonville is growing.
10 If the need is there for additional runway
11 for an airport service that Craig Field cannot
12 meet, unless the extension of the runway, then
13 it would seem time to look for some other place
14 in Jacksonville. There might be some
15 opportunity for a runway for the area that would
16 supply the need for growing Jacksonville.
17 So my challenge to you would be to consider
18 some other possibility and keep Craig Field
19 meeting the need of the airport, that is, the
20 general aviation airport craft that it is
21 designed for.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Saadeh.
24 Our next speaker is Atilla Kocs -- or Kocs
25 (pronouncing), excuse me, followed by Everett
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1 Garvin, followed by John McDermott.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good evening, ladies and
4 gentlemen of the City Council.
5 My name is Atilla Kocs. I live at 2133
6 Brighton Way -- Bay Trail. Sorry, I'm a little
7 nervous.
8 I've lived there for a little over nine
9 years. In that time, I've noticed that the
10 airplanes flying right over my house have become
11 increasingly larger, louder, the tempo of the
12 flights has been increasing, including 3:00,
13 4:00, 5:00 in the morning. I'm not sure who or
14 what flies in at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning,
15 but I hope they get time and a half.
16 I'm not a pilot, I'm not an aviation
17 expert, but I do watch the History Channel. I
18 do not believe that the aviation technology has
19 declined all of a sudden. I don't think
20 we're -- airplanes have become unsafe all of a
21 sudden, but they're trying to tell us that for
22 safety reasons they have to increase the
23 runway.
24 It was built at 4,000 feet for a purpose
25 and it was perfectly safe at that time, but now
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1 they're saying that all of a sudden aircraft
2 have become unsafe. I don't believe this is
3 true. I think it's about money. I think the
4 purpose of the airport is trying to change. It
5 sounds like they've broken the promise to stop
6 bringing this up, but here we are again.
7 I hope that you vote against the airport
8 expansion. That's an issue of quality of life
9 for the residents.
10 Thank you for your time.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kocs.
12 The next speaker is Everett Garvin,
13 followed by John McDermott.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Everett Garvin, 1738
16 Holly Oaks Lake Road East.
17 I'd like to thank the members of the
18 Airport Authority over here for bringing the
19 Holly Oaks community together every couple of
20 years because we need a good reunion so that we
21 can get together and talk about old times and
22 see who's passed away and who's still with us,
23 and I'd just like to thank them for that.
24 That's the only thing I can think of that
25 they have done constructive in this whole
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1 process. And maybe in another four years or
2 three years when you people, who I know are
3 going to take the high road and keep your
4 promise that's been made by people in the past
5 to not extend the runway, we'll be back again, I
6 guess, in another two or three years just to
7 have another good reunion.
8 And I'd like to thank you guys again.
9 Thank you very much.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Garvin.
11 On that light note, it has been two hours
12 since we started this. Our court reporter,
13 Ms. Tropia, needs a break, so we will stop for
14 ten minutes. You may run and use the rest room
15 and come back. We'll start back up at about
16 five after 9:00.
17 Thank you.
18 (Brief recess.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen,
20 we'll continue with our speakers.
21 The next three speakers that I have in my
22 hand are John McDermott, Leif -- don't know this
23 one -- D-e-t-l-e-f-s-e-n, I believe, and then
24 Steve Woodford.
25 Is John McDermott here?
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: He's waiving his right -- I
3 see.
4 I'm sorry, sir.
5 He's opposed and he's waiving his right to
6 speak.
7 Leif -- is Leif here?
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: I want you to come up here
10 and tell me --
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's okay. Every day
12 in class . . .
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Leif
15 Detlefsen. I reside at 2044 Midnight Moon
16 Trail, Jacksonville, Florida 32246, Kensington.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Pull that microphone up a
18 little bit for me.
19 MR. DETLEFSEN: (Complies.)
20 I purchased my house this year, and I had
21 no knowledge of any expansion or even being
22 under the flight path. I am woken up by the
23 planes at 4 a.m. It's a little comical that my
24 20-month-old will -- inside our closed house,
25 will point up at the ceiling saying, "Plane,
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1 plane," in terms of the air noise.
2 I know that someone mentioned monitoring
3 the airplane noise if the runway was expanded.
4 My question is, what about the current noise?
5 Is anyone monitoring that noise? And where, at
6 the airport or five miles from the airport?
7 Lastly, I am an engineer, a professional
8 engineer. I design ships and barges. I do not
9 do anything with airplanes or for the military;
10 however, in my field, ships are always modified,
11 increased in length, made larger, carry more
12 cargo, and every owner and operator does not
13 care about safety.
14 Yes, we are forced to go by rules that are
15 set by Solace, which was established because of
16 the Titanic, but I would agree that, you know,
17 for the current aircraft that land, extending
18 the runway would make it safer, but we all know
19 that's not what's going to continue to happen.
20 The larger planes will make it unsafe.
21 Please do not support the extension of the
22 runway.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
25 I have a stack of speakers here -- a stack
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1 of cards here from people that said -- they all
2 said they would not like to speak. They are
3 here in support of the bill. I'll read them
4 off. These are all in support unless I indicate
5 otherwise:
6 Steve Woodford -- and if one of these
7 people does want to speak, if they'll come
8 forward, I'll go back to their card -- Helen
9 Seymour, David Hubbard, Gregory Hash, Rosa
10 Beckett.
11 Continuing with people that are here in
12 support: Pat Lowder, Israel -- I can't -- It's
13 Bonilla, I believe. I can't pronounce it, I'm
14 sorry -- Chip Seymour, Richard Stroup, Richard
15 Rossi, Arin Venkatesan. I apologize about
16 that. He's here in support.
17 Continuing with the support cards: Moody
18 Robinson, Valerie Brown, Michael Brown, John
19 Falconetti, Mary Burnett, Jay Demetree, Sedrick
20 Rivers, Spence Edwards, Mary Soderstrum, Brian
21 Reed are all here in support of the bill.
22 Continuing: Derrick Willoughby does not
23 indicate one way or the other. Robert Molle is
24 in support, as well as Doug Iaouv, Chris Guest,
25 Jim McCollum, who already spoke, Barbara
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1 Halverstadt.
2 Tad Pennybaker is here in support, Ed
3 Burran is here in support, John Finotti is here
4 in support, and Bob Simpson, also Chet Roetter
5 is here in support, and Chet may want to speak.
6 Following him will be Bobby Taylor, followed by
7 Kandace -- I think it's Knutson.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm opposed and don't
9 wish to speak.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: She is opposed and does not
11 wish to speak.
12 Thank you, ma'am.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. Good evening.
16 Thanks for allowing me to speak.
17 My name is Chet Roetter, 7405 International
18 Village Drive.
19 I'm up here once again as a supporter for
20 Craig's runway extension, not only as a pilot
21 that is based at Craig but now as a recent
22 nearby homeowner.
23 My reasoning is simple, it's about safety.
24 To me, it's always been about safety. For
25 anybody to make a statement that a pilot is not
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1 safe and disregards safety is -- I don't know.
2 I can't -- I never heard that before in my
3 life.
4 It seems each day I hear different reasons
5 against the extension of the runway. One is
6 because of the noise, the next is the larger
7 aircraft, and then property values.
8 We have offered flights to opponents and
9 supp- -- correction -- proponents and opposition
10 all over Craig, to take you up, to show you what
11 the longer runways can do at Jax versus Craig,
12 and we've shown you that longer runways will
13 give us -- we can set lower takeoff power
14 settings, partial power takeoff settings to
15 decrease the decibel noise on departure.
16 We have also shown that during landing we
17 can allow the aircraft to aerodynamically
18 decrease in speed so we don't have to use --
19 hard on the thrush reversers. This is all
20 decreasing noise.
21 This has shown that the larger -- the
22 longer runways will decrease noise and it is
23 good for the safety margin.
24 The case of the larger airplanes -- you
25 know, it's -- the airplanes that operate in and
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1 out of Craig will continue to do so. However,
2 we don't want larger aircraft. They can't even
3 land there, as we already stated, anything over
4 60,000 pounds.
5 Every pilot that flies in there -- any
6 aircraft has to review the airport diagram. The
7 taxiways are too small to maneuver these larger
8 aircraft, so they would have to go in there and
9 rebuild taxiways. We don't want that. All
10 we're asking for is a little bit longer runway,
11 2,000 feet, to make our operations safety -- or
12 safer.
13 You know, the -- once again, I heard
14 something about the property values. Well, that
15 kind of made me a little nervous because I just
16 bought my house, so --
17 You know, I can't say enough why the
18 extension is so important. I believe a city
19 like this owes it to its commuters who travel in
20 and out of the area to give them a choice of
21 what airport to use and with equal safety at
22 which one -- which one they choose.
23 This has worked in Atlanta, Orlando, Miami,
24 Fort Lauderdale, just to name a few. I can go
25 on and on, but as the city grows, the airport
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1 needs to grow to keep up with it.
2 You know, Craig is an aviation -- it's a
3 window to the world. And, you know, if we just
4 look at it as a noise maker, it's not. I mean,
5 this gives -- brings jobs and opportunities and
6 prosperity to this community, and consider my
7 safety and the passengers when you vote.
8 Thank you for your time.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 That was Mr. Roetter -- Roetter
11 (pronouncing), excuse me.
12 MR. ROETTER: Roetter (pronouncing).
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Roetter? I'll get it right
14 eventually.
15 Our next speaker is Bobby Taylor, followed
16 by Don Hart.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see Mr. Taylor.
19 Don Hart.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
23 My name is Donald Hart. I live at 13731
24 Gerona Drive North.
25 I've flown in and out of Craig now a little
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1 over 20 years. My wife and I leave town pretty
2 much on weekends only. We have to come back,
3 and one of the big requirements of where we go
4 and when we go is the distance in the runway.
5 The last time we came back into
6 Jacksonville, we were in (inaudible) conditions
7 and the runway wasn't visible. Two thousand
8 extra feet will make the runway more visible.
9 Safety is an issue, and I have to explain
10 that to my wife, the copilot, everywhere we go.
11 So safety is an issue. Two thousand feet would
12 make it safer for all of us.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
15 That was Mr. Hart.
16 I have some more cards of people who do not
17 wish to speak. The following people are here in
18 opposition to the bill: Hazel Williams, Jerry
19 McCue, Keith Langenberg, Ross Benolken, John
20 Slough, Geraldine Atkinson are all here in
21 opposition to the bill.
22 In support of the bill we have Sammie
23 Gillispie, Patricia Gillispie, Dr. Chester
24 Aikens, George Banks, Gary Nelson, Michael Cook,
25 Ronald Belton, and our next speaker that I have
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1 is Willie Clowers, followed by David Richards,
2 followed by Jose Mascarenhas.
3 Mr. Clowers.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: He's not here.
6 David Richards.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: He's here in opposition and
9 does not need to speak.
10 Jose Mascarenhas.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see him.
13 Lake Ray has already spoken.
14 Kevin Hanley.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: He's in opposition and does
17 not wish to speak.
18 Patrick Mulvihill.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: He's not here.
21 Mindy Hawkins.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see Mindy.
24 Joe Williams.
25 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see Mr. Williams.
2 Dorothy Williams --
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: -- I do not see.
5 Bob Doty.
6 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: He's coming down.
8 Wayne Bishop.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Is Mr. Bishop still here?
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: He waives his right to speak
13 and he is in opposition to the bill.
14 Heather Bishop.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: She waives her right to
17 speak and is in opposition to the bill.
18 And then -- Mr. Doty, good evening.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Doty (pronouncing).
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Doty, excuse me.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's all right.
22 Everybody gets it wrong.
23 My name is Bob Doty. I live at 2037
24 Hovington Circle West, Kensington.
25 Presently, my -- the current aircraft noise
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1 is not a problem with me. I'm a retired United
2 States Air Force aircraft mechanic. I've lived
3 in Kensington for the past eight years.
4 I'd just like to read you a little
5 statement here. I get most of my news from the
6 Internet, and I was looking at an article in
7 Folio Weekly. I'm not really familiar with
8 that, but it is a local paper.
9 (Laughter.)
10 MR. DOTY: Is that a bad thing?
11 There's an article in here, it's entitled
12 "Plane Truth," P-l-a-n-e Truth. It's -- Ann
13 Schneider [sic] is the editor. Down at the
14 bottom of the article, it -- a couple of quick
15 paragraphs I wanted to read.
16 "The reason the airport's tenacity is
17 simple. It stands to profit mightily from the
18 longer Craig runway. It would allow massive
19 corporate jets and small commercial aircraft to
20 use the runway and would increase by 74,000, the
21 number of planes using the strip annually.
22 "Airport officials aren't comfortable
23 disclosing the reason for their desire to extend
24 the runway. However, they have created a
25 justification for their cause, safety.
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1 "In case anyone misses their point, they've
2 dubbed the current expansion attempt the Craig
3 Safety Initiative."
4 These are not my words. This comes out of
5 the newspaper, from an editor much smarter than
6 I.
7 If safety -- in my opinion, safety is not
8 an issue here. Being in the military for
9 20 years as an aircraft mechanic, safety was our
10 absolute number one priority, and we had more
11 incidents in a six-month period than they've had
12 at Craig Field for the eight years I've lived
13 here.
14 If the incidents or accidents reports
15 identified a serious safety deficiency, the FAA
16 would mandate changes in restrictions. No doubt
17 about it.
18 The Jax International Airport has room for
19 expansion, has room for large transportation
20 vehicles.
21 Again, safety is our number one priority,
22 but it is apparent to me that safety is not the
23 issue here; it comes down to money.
24 I hope you will decide against the
25 expansion.
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1 Thank you very much for your time.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Doty.
3 Our next speaker is Peter Goelz, followed
4 by Matthew Burtner, followed by Wayne Dunn.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 My name is Peter Goelz, and I work for
8 O'Neill & Associates.
9 We were asked by the JAA to look at the
10 proposed 2,000-foot extension and specifically
11 how it would impact safety, how it would impact
12 capacity, and how it would impact noise.
13 And to look at the extension, we pulled
14 together a team of four individuals -- or three
15 other individual besides myself, including a
16 senior airport manager, an operations specialist
17 with over 25 years of airport experience, a
18 senior aviation accident investigator, and a
19 certified air traffic controller to look at all
20 of the documents, to look at Craig Airfield to
21 see exactly how the 2,000 -- the proposed
22 2,000-foot extension would impact those three
23 areas.
24 Quite simply, there really is no debate. A
25 2,000-foot extension will improve safety. And a
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1 hundred more -- a thousand more feet on landing,
2 two thousand more feet on takeoff will give
3 pilots a greater margin of safety.
4 And why do they need that? Well,
5 particularly in the general aviation community,
6 when you're landing, for example, if you miss
7 your target landing speed by one knot, which is
8 a little more than a mile per hour, you have to
9 add 20 to 30 feet on your runway length for each
10 knot. So if you're hitting 10 miles over
11 your -- 10 knots over your landing speed, you've
12 really got to put in 2- to 300 extra feet on
13 your runway. On a wet runway, that goes up to
14 400 to 500 feet.
15 So an extension of 2,000 feet really does
16 give, particularly in an airport like Craig, an
17 extra margin of safety.
18 In terms of capacity, the Planning
19 Department has already indicated that -- and we
20 came to the same conclusion -- that the
21 extension would not affect capacity
22 appreciably.
23 And, finally, on noise, there's been a
24 great deal of discussion about Holly Oaks. On
25 takeoff, the planes will be between 20 and
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1 45 percent higher over Holly Oaks with the
2 extension, and that means that they're going to
3 be quieter.
4 And one last point, if I could,
5 Mr. Chairman. It was discussed -- and this is
6 critical -- that Craig is seen and designated as
7 the reliever airport for the Jacksonville area.
8 What that means, it plays an important role in
9 the aviation community. And it should be noted
10 that of comparable communities, there is no
11 reliever airport with a 4,000-foot runway. And
12 in the last 25 years, no public access airport
13 has been built with a runway of 4,000 feet.
14 This is the right thing to do. I know it's
15 a tough decision. I hope you will vote in favor
16 of it.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Goelz.
19 Matthew Burtner, followed by Wayne Dunn.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
22 My name is Matthew Burtner, I'm at 2335
23 Green Street in South Daytona, Florida.
24 I'm an aviation insurance broker employed
25 with Air-Sur, Incorporated, located in
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1 Ormond Beach, Florida. Our firm has been
2 providing aviation insurance and risk management
3 services to corporations and general aviation
4 businesses in Florida for the past 32 years.
5 I've been employed as an agent at Air-Sur for
6 the past seven years, and I'm in favor of
7 lengthening the runway at Craig Airport.
8 During the process of obtaining insurance
9 quotes for either owners or operators of
10 business aviation, the aviation insurance
11 underwriters ask a number of questions that they
12 feel is important for safety. They'll ask about
13 the pilot's experience, background of the people
14 that own the business, that have the aircraft,
15 the pilot training, but they also ask important
16 information about the airport. They ask where
17 the aircraft is going to be based. They ask if
18 the aircraft -- if the airport has a control
19 tower, what the number of operations are per
20 year. They also ask for the length of the
21 runways.
22 The aviation underwriters, who are in most
23 cases pilots, take all of this information into
24 consideration when they evaluate whether a
25 particular aircraft owner or operator should be
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1 insured. They're looking to make sure that
2 they're going to be operating safely.
3 Based on this knowledge, the underwriters
4 will generally come back to us brokers and ask
5 us questions about those who are looking to
6 obtain coverage.
7 Regarding Craig Airport, I get questions on
8 this airport because most of the smaller and
9 medium size business jets that are actually
10 operating -- that would be operating in and out
11 of Jacksonville International Airport, wanting
12 to be relieved at Craig Airport, between the
13 weights of 20- and 40,000 pounds gross takeoff
14 weight, those aircraft, to take off with an
15 average passenger load or even a full passenger
16 load with full fuel requires in excess of 5,000
17 feet in order to take off. Generally, about
18 5,600 feet and sometimes a little bit more.
19 So the larger aircraft aren't going to want
20 to go to Craig, but the smaller business jets
21 that are currently using Craig, probably in the
22 20- to 30,000-pound range, are going to want to
23 use that airport and would use the airport, and
24 it would be a viable alternative for them if
25 they were to go ahead and lengthen the runway to
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1 6,000 feet.
2 In my opinion -- you know, this question
3 and other questions regarding the safety margins
4 while operating aircraft are being asked by the
5 underwriters and they're part of the insurance
6 underwriting process.
7 In my opinion and from my perspective as an
8 insurance broker looking to provide products to
9 those who are insuring aircraft there at Craig
10 Airport, allow the runway expansion so that the
11 capacity will allow for a true reliever airport
12 for Jacksonville International.
13 Thank you very much.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Burtner.
15 Our next speaker is Wayne Dunn, followed by
16 Dennis Jones.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
20 My name is Wayne Dunn. I'm a professional
21 engineer and a pilot. I have enjoyed listening
22 to the comments and the conversations that have
23 been stated today, but pretty much have always
24 governed myselves [sic] by engineering
25 principles.
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1 I welcome the remarks of Senator King and
2 others who speak of covenants and agreements,
3 but that which I have investigated, the
4 accidents I've been involved with and the risks
5 that I've been encumbered with managing or
6 looking to manage or act on behalf of different
7 clients are ruled by physics, not politics. And
8 the risk is managed by probability, not
9 passion. And that's really what we're looking
10 at here.
11 Opposing the runway safety initiative puts
12 lives in danger. Simple fact.
13 The expressed intent of this opposition is
14 clearly to manage air traffic or regulate
15 noise.
16 Runway length is not a management or
17 regulatory tool. That's what the airport noise
18 and capacity act is about. That's what federal
19 aviation regulations are about. That's what
20 FAR 150, that Mr. Thoburn addressed, and that's
21 what FAR 161 specifically addressed.
22 Title 14, CFR Regulation 161, specifically
23 implements the Noise, Air and Capacity Act, and
24 that is implemented by the Federal Aviation
25 Authority.
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1 I did my research and could find no record
2 of any agency recommendation at any time or any
3 regulatory report or professional council that
4 indicated runway length was anything but a tool
5 for safety.
6 I would challenge anyone to find a document
7 signed and sealed by a professional engineer --
8 not of the rhetoric of the press or of anyone
9 elsewhere -- where they recommended regulating
10 airport traffic by reducing runway length.
11 That's not what we did at Cecil Field. That's
12 not what we did at NAS Jax.
13 We displaced the threshold. We didn't trim
14 the runway on Runway 14 at NAS Jax. We did not
15 allow the Navy to come to Cecil Field. We
16 didn't trim the runway. That's not what is
17 done.
18 Think of the Mathews Bridge. We have a
19 latent hazard at Craig Airport, an unattended
20 latent hazard if we allow that situation to
21 continue.
22 The Matthews Bridge was built in 1969 and
23 identified as a latent hazard. The grading was
24 replaced because of lives that were lost. The
25 Department of Transportation contended all along
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1 that that was safe.
2 That's what we're looking at here,
3 resolving a latent hazard, just like we did at
4 the Mathews Bridge, so that pilot error or pilot
5 mistake will not result --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Dunn.
7 MR. DUNN: -- in unreasonable accidents.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Dunn.
9 Our next speaker is Dennis Jones, followed
10 by Anthony Wolfe, followed by John Vito.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Is Mr. Jones here?
13 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not see him.
15 Anthony Wolfe, followed by John Vito,
16 followed by Kenneth Oddy.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, committee
20 members, good evening.
21 My name is Anthony Wolfe. I reside at
22 14078 Spanish Point Drive, the ZIP is -25.
23 I am on the final approach quarter to
24 Runway 23 at Craig and Runway 5 at Naval Station
25 Mayport. I'm an active, employed air traffic
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1 controller at the Craig Municipal Airport. I
2 have over 20 years of experience, 10 and a half
3 achieved at that airport.
4 I believe that the runway extension will
5 allow us to operate in a more safe manner.
6 Since the 9/11 tragedy, things have changed
7 drastically in the aviation industry. Sometimes
8 we have very subtle changes that make things
9 happen and sometimes it's a tragedy.
10 My job has become more difficult because
11 pilots are in greater demand than they ever have
12 been in our history except for times of war. We
13 see more training going on at the airport than
14 any other time.
15 Pilots in pre 9/11 used to spend six months
16 getting certificates and over a year in
17 training, training other pilots before they got
18 jobs.
19 Now they spend the same time getting the
20 certificates. Some spend as little as six to
21 eight weeks before they're picked up by the
22 airlines.
23 Business traffic in the airport has
24 increased. Even small business owners are
25 buying small airplanes because they're tired of
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1 security delays trying to get on commercial
2 flights. They don't want to be snowed out or
3 whited out in some airport when they could have
4 just stayed home.
5 Larger airplanes do use the airport, but
6 they don't use them any more than any other
7 aircraft. At least 95 percent of what we do at
8 the airport is the general aviation traffic,
9 75 percent of that is training. So we have a
10 very large influx of that.
11 My job, the most important thing I do on a
12 daily basis is safely sequence and separate
13 airplanes, every day, all day long.
14 I have watched airplanes crash. I was in
15 the tower on 9/11, and I told pilots they had to
16 land their airplanes by the order of the
17 president of the United States.
18 We are not the same community that we were
19 prior to all these agreements. I need your
20 help.
21 In conclusion, the most important thing
22 that you can do is give me more operating space
23 to make sure the pilots are separately -- or
24 sequenced better and more effectively so we will
25 not have any type of incursions at the airport.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Wolfe.
3 The next speaker is John Vito, followed by
4 Kenneth Oddy, followed by Jim Ussery.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, and thank
8 you for the opportunity to speak.
9 My name is John Vito. I live at 12477
10 Masters Ridge Drive.
11 I'm an airline transport-rated pilot. I've
12 been flying for over 30 years.
13 I'm the owner of Craig Air Center. I've
14 been doing business in Jacksonville since 1985.
15 We started with five employees and one
16 building. We invested to the point of seven
17 buildings. We now have near 50 employees.
18 A promise was made to us back in 1984. We
19 don't really speak about it, but when we came in
20 and decided to lease property at Craig Field,
21 the City promised us that they were going to
22 install an instrument landing system and along
23 the runway. Six thousand feet is what was
24 spoken of. That was in 1984. It was a promise
25 made to us.
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1 We did get the ILS, the precision landing
2 system, and the reason it took the Port
3 Authority so long to do it -- all credit to
4 them -- was that the FAA's guideline for putting
5 an ILS into an airport was a minimum of 5,000
6 feet. They had to get an exception to get that
7 ILS.
8 We got that ILS, which was a great benefit
9 to all the pilots and all the passengers flying
10 into Craig because it allows us to come in when
11 the visibility and the ceilings are lower. It
12 makes it much safer for us.
13 The downside is that they didn't get the
14 runway extension, and the ILS brings you in
15 1,500 feet from the approach end of the runway.
16 That leaves you a mere 2,500 feet to stop your
17 aircraft after touching down, if you're a
18 perfect pilot and everything goes right with no
19 mechanical failures. And, of course, this is in
20 great weather, dry conditions, and so forth.
21 And some of you may have come out and taken
22 the demonstration flights that we offered to not
23 only the people -- the City Council members, but
24 also to the opposition. Anyone that was
25 interested was invited to come out and see
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1 exactly what it is that we, as pilots, deal
2 with.
3 We did some of those flights, and I think
4 everyone that participated on those flights had
5 a great opportunity and left the airport with a
6 clear vision of what it is that we're looking
7 at.
8 When we stop on a clear, dry runway on a
9 perfect day, we have just enough runway to stop
10 our aircraft. We do it legally, within the
11 guidelines set by the FAA and the manufacturers,
12 but there is no margin for error. When you do
13 this at night, after a long day, with rainy
14 conditions, low ceilings, and bad weather, it
15 leaves you no margin for error.
16 What we're asking you for is -- the
17 operators of these aircraft at the airport, is
18 for your help to get this thing corrected and
19 make it a safer airport. We really need your
20 help. It's not a sham. We're looking to make
21 it safer for us and for everybody that uses this
22 airport, whether it's a citizen of Jacksonville
23 or someone who's coming to visit our fair city.
24 Thank you very much for your consideration.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Vito.
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1 Our next speaker is Kenneth Oddy, followed
2 by Jim Ussery, followed by James Jacobs.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
5 Ken Oddy, 1425 Dolphin Street, in support
6 of the runway extension.
7 I'm a retired airline pilot, 47 years of
8 total flying experience, over 25,000 hours,
9 licensed flight instructor, A and P mechanic,
10 inspection authorization on my mechanic's
11 certificate.
12 I've had an opportunity to fly out of Craig
13 Airport in a corporate jet, and I can't imagine
14 anybody not wanting a little more runway in
15 front of them should they have a catastrophic
16 engine failure, followed by a fire right at
17 lift-off speed.
18 And anybody that doesn't know that more
19 runway in a situation like that gives the pilot
20 the option to leave the airplane on the ground
21 and handle the emergency on the ground shouldn't
22 be flying a corporate jet.
23 If you have enough runway, you have the
24 option to remain on the ground, leave the
25 emergency on the ground, and that's what this
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1 would do, leave the pilot the option to abort,
2 reject the takeoff, leave the emergency on the
3 ground.
4 A displaced threshold will make it quieter
5 on the landing. Starting your takeoff roll
6 2,000 feet earlier, which is substantially
7 higher over noise-sensitive areas -- the real
8 limiting factor on Craig Airport in relation to
9 the size of airplanes that can operate there is
10 really the bearing strength of the runways,
11 taxiways, physical dimensions of the ramps,
12 taxiways, not the runway extension itself.
13 The runway extension is not going to bring
14 larger airplanes, forget about it, but it will
15 make it safer for the airplanes that utilize the
16 airport now.
17 Thank you, and I agree with the runway
18 extension.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Oddy.
20 The next speaker is Jim Ussery, followed by
21 James Jacobs, followed by David Edwards.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Jim Ussery, 2460
24 Cedar Shores Circle.
25 Airline transport pilot with about 16,000
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1 hours flight experience, and I appreciate
2 y'all's time tonight. Hopefully, this will be
3 the last time tonight.
4 We've heard a lot of erroneous data. I
5 read a book when I was in college, written by a
6 guy named Huff. The name of the book was, "How
7 to lie with statistics," and I've seen a lot of
8 data massaging being presented to you tonight
9 opposing the runway extension.
10 There's a saying, "To err is human; to
11 forgive is divine," but, unfortunately, to err
12 is human, but forgiveness is not corporate or
13 bureaucratic policy.
14 One of our expert witnesses earlier on made
15 some references to some data about an incident
16 at Craig, about an airplane that crashed, ran
17 through some marker lights. That part was
18 correct. The NTSB report that he was supposedly
19 involved with is rather opposed to what he was
20 saying. I would like to leave a copy of that
21 NTSB report with you so you can see the errors
22 in his presentation.
23 I want to talk about one incident that
24 happened at Craig in 1996 involving a PA-32. It
25 had three people onboard. It departed Craig on
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1 Runway 32, had a mechanical failure immediately
2 after departure. It came back around, tried to
3 land.
4 Unfortunately, he erred and his error was
5 not forgiven. He was too fast and too high. He
6 had a 4,000-foot runway to contend with. He
7 needed 6-. He couldn't get the airplane stopped
8 on the runway. So rather than to put the runway
9 through the ILS antenna farm, he went around.
10 Fortunately, he crashed on Monument Road. He
11 did not crash into the Holly Hills [sic]
12 subdivision.
13 At the time of his crash, he had 600 pounds
14 of gasoline onboard the airplane. Fortunately,
15 there was no fire, but could have been.
16 Had he had an adequate runway, 6,000 feet,
17 he would not have had to go around, he would not
18 have put a lot of people on the ground in the
19 Holly Oaks area in jeopardy, and he, his wife,
20 and his son may not have spent -- I think it was
21 three weeks in the hospital recovering.
22 So it's an item that we need at Craig from
23 a safety standpoint. The community will
24 benefit. The Holly Hills people -- Holly Oaks,
25 whoever they are -- will benefit because it will
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1 keep an airplane from crashing in their backyard
2 and possibly killing them and their family.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ussery.
5 James Jacobs, followed by David Edwards,
6 followed by Jim DeLay.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, committee
9 members, good evening.
10 James Jacobs, 4044 Glenhurst Drive North,
11 Jacksonville.
12 I came with some prepared remarks this
13 evening. However, everything on these pages has
14 been said numerous times already. What I'd like
15 to do is just remark to some of the things that
16 have been said by a number of individuals here
17 this evening, starting with the gentleman from
18 Air-Sur, commenting on the fact that it takes
19 5,600 to 6,000 feet for a 20- to 30,000-pound
20 aircraft to depart Craig with ample fuel and a
21 reasonable average passenger load.
22 What the gentleman failed to tell you was
23 that at 4,000 feet, you can't launch with
24 adequate fuel and a payload to always make your
25 mission requirements, which means you take less
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1 gas, fewer passengers, and ultimately stop along
2 the way to pick up more gas to make it to your
3 destination. That adds to the expense of the
4 operation.
5 I listened to a number of people talk about
6 the aircraft that operate out of Craig. Well,
7 I'm one of those table two airplanes. I'm one
8 of those 20- to 30,000-pound airplanes. I'm the
9 largest turbofan aircraft based at Craig and
10 responsible for its operation. Believe me,
11 safety is paramount in our operation, and
12 6,000 feet of runway will add considerably to
13 the safety of our operation.
14 Let me speak to small aircraft versus large
15 aircraft. A gentleman said small airplanes
16 carry 40 to 90 gallons of gas. That would be
17 basically true. Larger airplanes carry more
18 fuel. The implication was if a larger airplane
19 crashed there would be a larger ball of fire, a
20 larger catastrophe. Hopefully, that individual
21 wasn't implying that even if a small airplane
22 crashed and there was a loss of life, that's
23 okay versus a larger incident.
24 Small aircraft make up a good part of the
25 operations at Craig and they do operate safely,
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1 generally speaking, off of 4,000 feet, both in
2 the landing and takeoff mode.
3 On a good day, you can take a Skyhawk and
4 take off and land three times on 4,000 feet.
5 You can't do that with my table two airplane.
6 Mr. Clark spoke to the growing community we
7 have here in this fair city and all of the
8 reasons why we need to look at the Craig Airport
9 as a growth issue as well --
10 (Timer indication.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Jacobs.
12 MR. JACOBS: Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: David Edwards, followed by
14 Jim DeLay, followed by Bob Feindt -- Feindt
15 (pronouncing).
16 Bob, I apologize ahead of time.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. Good evening.
19 David Edwards, 6 East Bay Street.
20 I'm here to speak in favor of the runway
21 extension.
22 In early 2001, the Port Authority had two
23 significant matters on its plate, a runway
24 extension at Craig and the split of the
25 Authority into separate seaport and aviation
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1 authorities. Certain council members and a
2 state legislator made it clear that they would
3 not support the port split unless Craig was
4 dropped. Just tonight, former Councilwoman Self
5 verified that Craig would need to be sacrificed
6 to get her vote on the port split in 2001.
7 So in January, 2001, lobbyist and board
8 member Marty Fiorentino wrote a letter to City
9 Council members saying that the Craig extension
10 would not be pursued. The problem is there was
11 no prior authorization for the letter to be
12 written.
13 Because it was a surprise to everyone but
14 Mr. Fiorentino, a meeting was hastily called of
15 the Aviation Committee of the Port Authority. I
16 attended this meeting and it was discussed that
17 this would be temporary and that any resolution
18 would not be binding on the board of the new
19 Aviation Authority to be formed.
20 The much touted but suspect port resolution
21 was subsequently adopted. However, in news
22 articles and statements of the Port Authority
23 members, it became clear that the Craig
24 extension would not be dead, just asleep for a
25 while.
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1 In an article from May 2001, entitled
2 "Florida's Craig Airport Runway to be
3 Revisited," the Vice Chairman of the Port
4 Authority is quoted as saying, "The Craig
5 project can never be taken off the burner and
6 the January resolution is invalid when the port
7 split occurs."
8 This article also quotes a member of the
9 opposition group as saying that they had been
10 happy to have the port's resolution, but they
11 figured a new board wouldn't be bound by a
12 previous board's decision. That's why it was so
13 easy.
14 By now the port split is in the state
15 legislature and concerns are growing that Craig
16 is not dead. So the second unilateral letter is
17 written by Mr. Fiorentino to provide further
18 assurances, also with the fictitious return of
19 the FDOT funds.
20 Still, within the next week we have another
21 newspaper article casting further doubt on the
22 situation: "Florida port split over plans for
23 runway extension."
24 It is hard for anyone who is paying any
25 attention to this issue in 2001 to know for sure
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1 whether there was a promise or a certainty on
2 either side, and today the past is being
3 rewritten when the political extortion of 2001
4 is characterized as an unequivocal promise to
5 abandon the runway extension. All this talk of
6 a covenant is simply an attempt to play on
7 emotions and divert attention from the facts and
8 the real issues at hand.
9 Please take a look at the facts and try not
10 to be governed by emotions and some need to
11 punish the Aviation Authority for whatever
12 promises made. You would really be punishing
13 the pilots, passengers, neighbors, and citizens
14 of Jacksonville by denying the safety, noise
15 reduction, and economic development that the
16 extension provides.
17 Thank you for your time.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Edwards.
19 Jim DeLay, followed by Bob Feindt, followed
20 by David Marco.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman and fellow
23 members up there of the council, particularly
24 Councilman Clark, who I watched grow up.
25 Nice to see you tonight, sir.
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1 I'll give you a little bit of background
2 here. I'd like to thank the members of the
3 opposition who are here tonight. I am obviously
4 here in favor of the extension, but Beverly
5 Girvin -- Garvin, excuse me -- was my listing
6 agent when I bought my house next to Holly Hills
7 and Beacon Hills. That house I bought in 1976
8 is on the flight path into Runway 14. And I
9 took my two young kids, who Richard grew up
10 with, and sat out on my deck and watched the
11 planes land. They thought that was kind of
12 cool.
13 And, by the way, Beverly, that house, I
14 lived in it for five years and it appreciated
15 60 percent. Since 1981, it has quadrupled. So
16 thank you so much for your astute judgment about
17 airports and houses.
18 Captain Robichaud, who is an experienced
19 airline transport pilot, I would honor -- I
20 would like to personally debate him about the
21 fact that this is not a safety issue. It's
22 inconceivable to me how a military-trained pilot
23 can advocate for a runway of 4,000 feet.
24 I'm also an airline transport pilot and
25 I've been trained in the military. I've flown
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1 all over the world. I've landed on things as
2 large as this table -- or as small as this
3 table, as large as a 15,000 feet runway at
4 12,000 feet altitude. So I think I have a bit
5 of sense of how to do this.
6 The gentleman that offered lodging for an
7 evening to do noise sensitivity -- I would also
8 ask that anybody in the opposition side that has
9 a six-year-old granddaughter or daughter to fly
10 with me in the front seat of my 12,500-pound
11 Citation jet, and I will simulate, at
12 2,000 feet, the breaking of a window. And as
13 soon as we clean your granddaughter's or
14 daughter's pants, we'll stop that airplane, and
15 that's only because of the remarkable skills of
16 the pilot.
17 I had it happen to me at Craig Airfield. I
18 had my six-year-old granddaughter on there. The
19 window blew out. We did change her pants much
20 later, but I was first to get to the men's room,
21 so I had to do that.
22 But I stopped the airplane and I shook, and
23 I took it off the runway, and I said thank God
24 we are considering extending this runway.
25 Somebody is going to die, somebody is going to
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1 run into somebody, and it's not going to be
2 pretty.
3 Ladies and gentlemen, I implore you to vote
4 in favor of this extension.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. DeLay.
6 Bob -- I can't wait for him to get here to
7 pronounce his name -- followed by David Marco,
8 followed by Michael Stewart.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
11 My name is Robert Feindt, 12841 Day Break
12 Court, in the Indian Springs --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Say your name again.
14 MR. FEINDT: Feindt.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Find?
16 MR. FEINDT: Feindt.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 MR. FEINDT: Does that count against my
19 three minutes?
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm watching it. I'm with
21 you.
22 MR. FEINDT: 12841 Day Break Court West,
23 Jacksonville, Florida.
24 Again, I stand before you as a homeowner,
25 not as a pilot with 20 years of experience, nor
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1 as a realtor looking to sell homes next to
2 Craig. I stand as a homeowner in district 2.
3 Everyone in Jacksonville wants a better
4 Jacksonville. We want a better jail. Don't put
5 it in my neighborhood. We want a better sewage
6 system, just don't put it in my backyard.
7 In short, we all want a better city, just
8 don't put it anywhere near me.
9 Jacksonville is growing. Arlington and
10 thus Craig Airfield, which was built in the
11 '40s, needs to grow with it.
12 As a homeowner, a large part of my
13 retirement is invested in my home. I was
14 concerned when I read that my home value was
15 threatened. I looked into this instead of
16 relying on "the sky is falling" theory.
17 I can't find any factual basis that proves
18 a longer runway will decrease my home's value.
19 As a matter of fact, Atlanta, Orlando, Dallas,
20 all cities where runways have recently been
21 built or extended, property values directly
22 around the airport have gone up dramatically.
23 Closer to home, I have to ask why the
24 second fastest growing area in regards to home
25 values in Jacksonville is the Northside,
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1 especially around Jax International Airport,
2 which itself is growing.
3 Please realize that airports are not simply
4 playgrounds where the rich fly their fancy toys
5 in and out. In reality, they're the vital
6 economic engines that drive development of the
7 neighborhoods therein.
8 I ask you to preserve our (inaudible)
9 future by giving it this vital business tool it
10 needs to renew itself.
11 I've heard a lot about promises tonight. I
12 relate this to a family, my family. When my
13 youngest daughter tells me, "Daddy, you
14 promised," well, sometimes I have to override
15 her because circumstances have changed and I
16 need to do what's best for the entire family
17 based on what's happening right now.
18 Districts 1 and 2 are just -- just that,
19 two children living in the family of
20 Jacksonville. And as our leaders, you're our
21 parents. Like it or not, we've chosen you to be
22 our leaders.
23 I submit that you would find it unethical
24 to tie the hands of future council members.
25 Please don't let this happen to you by your
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1 predecessors.
2 Doing nothing because of a past promise
3 made by your predecessors is not the honorable
4 or strong path to take. Doing nothing is easy.
5 I ask that you take the truly honorable and
6 strong path and make the hard decisions that's
7 good for the entire family, not just two noisy
8 children.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 David Marco, followed by Michael Stewart,
12 followed by Charlie Douglas.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening,
16 Mr. Chairman and members of the council.
17 I'm David Marco, 2399 Ocean Breeze Court,
18 Atlantic Beach, Florida.
19 I think I'm a pilot first. I'm also CEO of
20 a biomedical First Coast 50 largest companies,
21 but tonight I speak to you as past chairman of
22 the JPA aviation division.
23 We had and we have a tremendous amount of
24 brain power on this JPA board that was entrusted
25 with making the proper decision regarding
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1 aviation matters for our community. For
2 35 years this revolving brain trust has, over
3 and over again, studied and recommended -- which
4 is, by the way, what we were entrusted by the
5 mayor and the governor to do -- we studied the
6 facts. We didn't study the propaganda, we
7 didn't study the emotions nor the politics, and
8 we recommended, for 35 years, to bring our
9 community's Craig Airport up to just minimum
10 national standards. You see it's all about the
11 community.
12 Most discussion tonight has revolved around
13 a unilateral promise, a unilateral letter
14 motivated clearly by politics and emotion, not
15 by merit.
16 No unilateral letter or promise by anyone
17 can dispute the facts. Our world-class city has
18 an airport that was appropriately 4,000 feet by
19 1945 standards.
20 I fly the world over. Four thousand feet
21 is an embarrassment to our community. It's
22 about our world-class community. It's about the
23 facts. It's about the brain trust that has been
24 entrusted to make these decisions for our
25 community based on these facts.
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1 If the opposing neighbors reasonably
2 reviewed the facts, they would embrace this
3 proposal because all we've heard is about the
4 safety of the pilots and the safety of the
5 passengers. The facts are, it's safer for the
6 very neighbors in opposition.
7 Thank you very much for your time.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Marco.
9 The final two speakers are Michael Stewart,
10 followed by Charlie Douglas.
11 (Mr. Stewart approaches the podium.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
13 MR. STEWART: Good evening, Mr. Chairman
14 and council members.
15 Michael Stewart, 10218 Shore View Drive,
16 Jacksonville, Florida.
17 As all of you know, I am an employee of the
18 Jacksonville Aviation Authority. And this issue
19 of Craig Airport, as Mr. Marco has just
20 indicated, has been around for a long time. A
21 number of studies have addressed the need for
22 this extension, and I just want to point out
23 just a couple of facts and talk about market
24 forces that have impacted Craig Airport.
25 One fact: The airport is growing. Nobody
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1 will refute that. That is fact. You can look
2 at the numbers.
3 The only glitches that have impacted on the
4 negative side on the growth at Craig Airport has
5 been when the National Guard moved away, moved
6 out to Craig, and when I think Runway 32 was
7 resurfaced, but it is a continuing trend to
8 grow, just like general aviation is growing,
9 just like Jacksonville is growing, and that
10 should be addressed.
11 The other fact that can't be refuted is
12 that noise complaints in and around Craig have
13 trended down since 2001.
14 Oddly enough, they started to trend up in
15 September. I'll leave that to your imagination
16 as to why that had started at that time.
17 About the market forces, almost a year ago,
18 a company -- a national company, Day Jet, in
19 building its business model and looking in the
20 Southeast, looked around to determine city
21 locations and airport locations. Their business
22 model was to provide, per seat, chartered
23 aircraft service. Instead of -- you may know it
24 as air taxi service. Instead of chartering an
25 entire plane as a business person or business
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1 traveler, you could charter or just purchase a
2 seat.
3 When they came to Jacksonville, they looked
4 at Cecil and they looked at Craig. Just two
5 weeks ago, they announced -- not because we
6 asked them to -- they announced the selection of
7 Craig Airport as the airport they wanted to
8 operate out of because the business community
9 wanted the use of Craig Airport and its
10 location.
11 I strongly suggest that you look at the
12 facts and make your decision based on the facts.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Stewart.
15 Our final card is from Charlie Douglas.
16 Charlie Douglas is here in opposition and does
17 not wish to speak.
18 I have come to the end of the speaker
19 cards. I do have a question for Ms. Eller and
20 the General Council's Office. Would we keep the
21 public hearing open while we get questions to
22 the speakers or would we close the public
23 hearing first?
24 MS. ELLER: You may keep the public hearing
25 open. That way it's all part of the public
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1 hearing testimony.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Having said that,
3 we -- I'd like to first turn to the district
4 councilperson, Councilmember Bishop, to see if
5 he has any questions that he'd like to ask any
6 of our speakers.
7 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 Yes, I have several. My first set of
9 questions is for Mr. Bobek.
10 Are you still in the audience?
11 MR. BOBEK: (Indicating.)
12 Do I need to bring anything with me?
13 MR. BISHOP: Pardon?
14 MR. BOBEK: Do I need to bring anything
15 with me?
16 MR. BISHOP: I don't think so.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: While you come down, sir,
18 let me let the speakers know that you are not
19 under oath and you are not obligated to answer
20 questions if you don't want to. We will ask you
21 and you can answer if you are willing, but if
22 you choose not to, that is your prerogative.
23 (Mr. Bobek approaches the podium.)
24 MR. BOBEK: Yes, sir.
25 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Bobek.
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1 My first question: During the Planning
2 Commission, you mentioned LULUs in your
3 discussion. Would you explain for us what a
4 LULU is?
5 MR. BOBEK: It's a designation in your
6 comprehensive plan of a land use. That's the
7 last LU. The first LU is an unfavor- -- a
8 designation for an unfavored use.
9 MR. BISHOP: I think it's locally un- --
10 MR. BOBEK: Locally unacceptable use, which
11 is really what you --
12 You're hearing a lot from the directors and
13 the JAA people. They need a place where they
14 can have a 6,000-foot runway. They need a new
15 location, as councilwoman -- former Councilwoman
16 Self said. They need to put it somewhere where
17 they can have a full-scale airport because right
18 now it's being forced into too small a spot.
19 It's not safe for them and it's not safe for the
20 neighbors.
21 But a LULU, by your comprehensive plan, is
22 supposed to be the subject of the Planning
23 Department's mediation program, and it hasn't
24 been mediated. And despite the fact that one of
25 the speakers, the director of the Planning
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1 Department, in his letter covering the
2 department report says, of the three
3 considerations we're taking, we're giving the
4 trump card to the neighborhood, yet there was no
5 meeting, there was no mediation.
6 MR. BISHOP: Who is the City supposed to
7 conduct the mediation with on these aviation
8 comp plan amendments?
9 MR. BOBEK: Well, actually, they're
10 supposed to consult with -- and a very large
11 part of my speaking was cut short because of our
12 time constraints, but the City is required to
13 coordinate its comprehensive planning process,
14 including amendments like this one on aviation,
15 coordinate that with the Corps of Engineers; the
16 FAA; the metro planning for Jax urbanized area
17 [sic]; Governor Crist and his cabinet, under
18 Chapter 380 if there's going to be environmental
19 impacts; Florida Department of Transportation,
20 the five-year program there; and the Continuing
21 Florida Aviation System Planning Process.
22 Now, I looked for any of that, and
23 apparently none of that is being conducted
24 either.
25 MR. BISHOP: Okay. Thank you.
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1 What is the impact on the legal
2 perspective, as you would understand it, of not
3 having conducted this process?
4 MR. BOBEK: Well, Mr. Bishop, I'm
5 representing advocates, and I am an advocate.
6 And before I go any further with the comp plan
7 violations, I have to be concerned about the
8 tactical position it will put me in later when I
9 have to explain to a hearing officer why the
10 planned extension is not consistent with the
11 comprehensive plan. So you're asking me to give
12 my cards away.
13 MR. BISHOP: I understand that.
14 Okay. I appreciate that answer, and I
15 guess that's really the end of my questions.
16 MR. BOBEK: You know, there is one --
17 MR. BISHOP: Unless there's something else
18 you want to elaborate on.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I was going to say, he needs
20 to ask you a question before you give an answer.
21 MR. BISHOP: Is there something else that
22 you would like to elaborate on in your
23 discussion?
24 MR. BOBEK: It's just on the safety thing
25 and the touching story about stopping just
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1 barely short enough and the six-year-old and how
2 scared she must have been.
3 There's a Web site called SafeCraig.com
4 [sic], and it explains why there are not
5 overruns, which would have prevented that fear.
6 It's not additional landing area. They can
7 build an overrun. It's a paved -- the pavement
8 of the clearway at the end of the runway.
9 The reason they don't do that -- and this
10 is their own words from SafeCraig.com -- is
11 because an overrun cannot be used for takeoff or
12 landing distance computations. In other words,
13 if it only increases safety and not capacity,
14 we're not going to do it.
15 That was a question that you might ask one
16 of them next because that's a question I have.
17 MR. BISHOP: Thank you very much.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
19 MR. BISHOP: My next question is for former
20 Councilwoman Lynette Self.
21 Is she --
22 (Ms. Self approaches the podium.)
23 MR. BISHOP: At the end of your discussion,
24 you indicated that there was something that you
25 would like to read in the record. Would you
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1 mind reading that for us?
2 MS. SELF: Thank you, Councilman Bishop.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Paraphrasing is okay.
4 MS. SELF: It's short.
5 This is actually taken from a news
6 editorial that was submitted to the Times-Union,
7 and the authors of this are David Marco, who
8 just spoke before you, Ronald Townsend, Mark
9 Hulsey, and Ed Austin, all former board members.
10 In this editorial, it states, "By all
11 accounts, the split has been a big success."
12 We're talking about the split of the
13 Airport Authority and the Port Authority.
14 "As separate entities, the JPA and the JAA
15 have been able to meet the challenges of their
16 respective industries, expand and add
17 good-paying jobs to the Jacksonville economy,
18 but to get approval for the split, we had to
19 make some tough choices. One of these choices
20 was whether to continue pursuing the Craig
21 runway extension as a political calculation. We
22 agreed to abandon the runway extension in order
23 to secure the support of the split from key
24 elected officials."
25 And that's -- Mr. Marco, you were on that
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1 editorial.
2 So the commitment that was made was a
3 commitment. I would not have bartered on the
4 council for a commitment that they couldn't
5 get.
6 When I was on the council, with the council
7 that we had, we had ten people -- ten council
8 members that signed on to a resolution and said
9 we are not going to allow this runway to be
10 extended.
11 They couldn't get it. They are now looking
12 for this extension.
13 I bartered for the future, not for the
14 council that I sat with. And they said in an
15 editorial at the paper that we are going to
16 abandon the extension in order to secure the
17 support of the split from key elected
18 officials.
19 They would not have had a unanimous vote,
20 and they were looking for a unanimous vote on
21 the split. They would not have had it. That
22 would have then raised questions over in
23 Tallahassee. Well, why was this not unanimous?
24 So I believe their commitment was for the
25 future. I don't believe that Marty Fiorentino
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1 was acting on his own. He was not rogue. They
2 would not have allowed that. It went out on
3 JaxPort letterhead. He was not rogue. It was
4 not a rogue commitment. It was a commitment
5 from the Jacksonville Aviation Authority.
6 And integrity is important in government.
7 And if I could just correct something that
8 Mr. Bobek said that I stated. I didn't state
9 that we should -- that the Airport Authority
10 should look somewhere else for the 6,000. I
11 didn't state that.
12 My comment to that would be -- people were
13 saying "not in my backyard." It's already in
14 our backyard. We're just saying don't make it
15 bigger.
16 I don't know if you have any other
17 questions.
18 MR. BISHOP: No, that's it. Thank you very
19 much.
20 My next question, Mr. Chairman, is for
21 Mr. David Edwards -- I'm sorry -- Mr. Dave
22 Evans. There's an Edwards and an Evans.
23 (Mr. Evans approaches the podium.)
24 MR. EVANS: My name is David Evans. I live
25 at 2007 Hovington Circle West, Jacksonville,
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1 Florida.
2 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Evans, for
3 being here.
4 When we were speaking earlier on one of the
5 breaks, you commented on your 40 years of
6 experience in the property casualty insurance
7 business. And there's been some discussions
8 earlier about insurance implications of aviation
9 and why planes are based where they are. Would
10 you comment on that, please?
11 MR. EVANS: You've got to understand, in
12 the insurance business you weigh risk and
13 premium. And in a lot of cases you may get a
14 car that's too hot for a driver to -- a young
15 driver to operate.
16 In the case of aviation, you get a plane
17 that's too hot to land on a given length of
18 airport -- of runway. It's too big. There may
19 be a number of reasons why that aircraft
20 shouldn't be coming in there. Maybe it
21 shouldn't be there to begin with because the
22 runway wasn't designed for it, but the airport
23 and the airport manager don't have the
24 discipline or any way to stop it. So the way
25 they stop it is with the insurance company that
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1 says, "I won't insure you if you bring your
2 plane in there because it's a risk that we don't
3 want to take." That simple.
4 MR. BISHOP: Thank you very much.
5 My next question goes to Mr. Jacobs. Is he
6 still in the audience?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, he is.
8 (Mr. Jacobs approaches the podium.)
9 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Jacobs.
10 You mentioned that you're the pilot, I
11 believe, of the largest plane that's based at
12 Craig?
13 MR. JACOBS: That's correct.
14 MR. BISHOP: And we're talking in terms of
15 why you believe the runway should be extended.
16 I guess my question to you is, if the
17 configuration at Craig is really not optimum for
18 your plane, or in a sense I'm assuming you're
19 meaning not exactly safe, why do you base your
20 plane there when there are other alternatives?
21 MR. JACOBS: You're assuming directly by
22 reasoning that it's unsafe. A number of pilots
23 sat up here this evening and said we operate our
24 aircraft safely under the parameters that we're
25 provided through our airplane flight manuals,
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1 et cetera.
2 There's no reason why I can't operate my
3 aircraft off of Jacksonville Craig and
4 4,000 feet. I just can't operate it to its
5 maximum capacity, if you will.
6 MR. BISHOP: Why would you not operate it
7 at one of the other facilities that would allow
8 you to operate it to its fullest capacity?
9 MR. JACOBS: Such as?
10 MR. BISHOP: JIA or Cecil Field.
11 MR. JACOBS: Mr. Bishop, Cecil Field is not
12 a viable reliever airport for the City of
13 Jacksonville. It's not a viable airport for
14 anyone to travel to from the east side of the
15 St. Johns River. It's a two-hour drive during
16 rush-hour traffic to get across to the airport.
17 That's not practical.
18 MR. BISHOP: What about JIA?
19 MR. JACOBS: JIA --
20 MR. BISHOP: I'm just asking because --
21 MR. JACOBS: Yes. JIA is the commercial
22 airport for the Jacksonville community. It's
23 not the general aviation airport. We don't want
24 to be there for that reason.
25 MR. BISHOP: So I think what you're telling
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1 us is that Jacksonville does not have a general
2 aviation airport to the extent that can service
3 your type of plane; is that -- I mean, it's an
4 inference on my part. Am I -- it's kind of in
5 the right direction?
6 MR. JACOBS: What you're saying is
7 Jacksonville does not have a general aviation
8 reliever airport, an official general aviation
9 reliever airport, that's correct.
10 By FAA definition, I believe an official
11 reliever airport is a minimum of 5,000 feet of
12 runway.
13 MR. BISHOP: Okay. Thank you very much.
14 MR. JACOBS: You're welcome.
15 (Mr. Yarborough assumes the Chair.)
16 MR. BISHOP: Okay. I think my next
17 question is for Mr. David Edwards. Is he still
18 here?
19 (Mr. Edwards approaches the podium.)
20 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Edwards.
21 I guess I just really have one question for
22 you. Recently, there's been a lot of e-mails
23 flying around authored by you, and sort of an
24 e-mail conversation going back and forth. And
25 my question -- am I correct in the statement
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1 that you're an attorney and that you represent
2 one of the financial interests involved at
3 Craig Field; is that correct?
4 MR. EDWARDS: Yes. My father has been
5 attendant at Craig for 30 years.
6 MR. BISHOP: Thank you. That's it.
7 MR. EDWARDS: Thank you.
8 MR. BISHOP: And that's the end of my
9 questions.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
11 Mr. Corrigan stepped out for just a second.
12 I have -- actually, let me go to the rest
13 of the committee first. I think that was what
14 we had intended to do next.
15 Ms. Eller, is that correct, now that we're
16 back in the committee?
17 MS. ELLER: Correct.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: We need to close the public
19 hearing at this time or see if the --
20 MS. ELLER: I believe we were leaving the
21 public hearing open for all questions from any
22 of the speakers by the committee members.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I'll turn to
24 the other committee members, if there are
25 questions.
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1 Mr. Shad? Mr. Webb?
2 Mr. Webb.
3 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
4 Through the Chair -- through the Vice Chair
5 to the General Counsel's Office. Where are we
6 procedurally at this point?
7 I understand that the bill is -- or the
8 resolution, as initially introduced -- or excuse
9 me -- the modification of the comp plan, as
10 initially introduced, was subject to some
11 amendments. Where are we at with that?
12 MS. ELLER: The bill, as originally
13 introduced, had specific language amending the
14 text of the comp plan attached as Exhibit 1.
15 The Planning Department offered to use,
16 through its staff report, an alternative version
17 of that Exhibit 1, which included the things
18 that Brad Thoburn mentioned and which I believe
19 has been agreed to by the airport -- by the
20 Aviation Authority as a revision to the proposed
21 text of the comp plan. In essence, a revised
22 Exhibit 1.
23 At the conclusion of the public hearing and
24 after or during the committee's debate, at any
25 time, in order to consider what the Planning
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1 Department has offered, a member of the
2 committee would have to offer an amendment to
3 the bill. Otherwise, you can entertain a motion
4 to approve the bill as originally submitted,
5 deny the bill, amend the bill as the Planning
6 Department proposed, as I just said, amend it
7 with something else.
8 At that time, once you're in the body of
9 the committee and you're considering motions,
10 would be when you would take that up.
11 MR. WEBB: Okay. Thank you very much.
12 Through the Chair -- Vice Chair, I have a
13 question to Mr. Clark. And before I ask the
14 question, I'd like to preface the question by
15 saying that there's been a lot of discussion
16 about promises that were made and the integrity
17 of governing bodies and things of that nature.
18 However, I think it's a matter of -- I
19 think it's obvious to everyone that this
20 council -- this committee did not vote on this
21 matter back in the day, and that we are -- this
22 is a matter of first impression for this
23 Land Use and Zoning Committee.
24 (Mr. Clark approaches the podium.)
25 MR. WEBB: Having said that, Mr. Clark,
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1 there are some modifications that were offered
2 to the bill as recommended by the Planning
3 Department, and you are -- those changes are
4 acceptable to you; is that correct?
5 MR. J. CLARK: Through the Chair, yes.
6 MR. WEBB: Okay. We've had numerous
7 discussions. I mean, I think everyone has done
8 yeomen's work over the past months or weeks at
9 least with regard to discussions, to drill past
10 the emotion in all of this, and to reach some
11 sort of mutual accommodation.
12 My understanding was that there are ongoing
13 discussions as to additional concessions or
14 assurances that the JAA may, in fact, make to
15 the community in the context of additional
16 restrictions in the comp plan that would, again,
17 abate noise issues and things of that nature,
18 usage, things of that nature. Are those -- are
19 any of those suggestions included in the
20 modifications as offered by the Planning
21 Department?
22 MR. J. CLARK: Through the Chair to
23 Mr. Webb, Councilmember Webb, since that -- the
24 Planning Commission meeting, there has been
25 several meetings. As you've indicated, there
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1 was meetings held with -- facilitated by Bruce
2 Barcelo, between myself and Councilmember Bishop
3 and our board member John Falconetti.
4 So there's been a continuous attempt to try
5 to figure out how we could create, if you will,
6 a win/win situation, how there would be
7 recognition of a growing need for the facilities
8 at Craig Airport, at the same time, how we could
9 begin to mitigate those impacts, both current
10 and projected.
11 So through those conversations, I believe
12 that we have at least put on the table some
13 considerations of things that -- from the JAA's
14 perspective and the operators' perspective, that
15 we could put in place to begin to mitigate
16 further encroachments on the community.
17 MR. WEBB: Okay. But nothing at this point
18 has been included? There are no floor
19 amendments to be offered this evening or
20 anything of that nature, at least at this
21 point?
22 MR. J. CLARK: No, sir.
23 MR. WEBB: All right. I guess -- I guess
24 I'm a little disappointed in that, after all of
25 this dialogue that we've all had in an effort to
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1 reach some sort of accommodation, some sort of
2 compromise, some sort of deal, some sort of
3 win/win that we could all live with, we're
4 sitting here now at 10:20 p.m. and we're still
5 talking about issues of trust.
6 That being the case, over the next -- I
7 mean -- actually, I have a question.
8 Through the Chair, I have a question for
9 Mr. Falconetti, please.
10 Thank you, Mr. Clark.
11 MR. J. CLARK: Thank you.
12 (Mr. Falconetti approaches the podium.)
13 MR. FALCONETTI: Yes, Mr. Councilman.
14 MR. WEBB: Mr. Falconetti -- through the
15 Chair to Mr. Falconetti, thank you for being
16 here.
17 We had an earlier discussion about some
18 proposed modifications to this amendment to the
19 comp plan that would, in fact, address some of
20 the concerns of the community. Do you recall
21 that conversation?
22 MR. FALCONETTI: Yes, I do.
23 MR. WEBB: Okay. Now, you've given me a
24 list here of those modifications. Would you be
25 in a position to offer -- to work with the
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1 council and with the General Counsel's Office, a
2 modification of some of the -- or excuse me -- a
3 presentation of some of these suggestions to --
4 amendments prior to coming back before Council
5 on Tuesday?
6 MR. FALCONETTI: Yes, sir.
7 And I apologize. In fairness, I think
8 Mr. Clark may have been confused. We're willing
9 to offer up all eight of the concessions that
10 are before you in the form of a floor amendment
11 if it meets the councilman's approval.
12 (Mr. Corrigan resumes the Chair.)
13 MR. WEBB: It would be an amendment this
14 evening?
15 MR. FALCONETTI: Correct. We're willing to
16 agree to that. And not only that, but we would
17 also agree to take official board action prior
18 to Tuesday's full council meeting to endorse
19 that as well.
20 MR. WEBB: Well, if it would be
21 appropriate, through the Chair, I would offer --
22 I would offer eight floor amendments to the --
23 I'm sorry -- one floor amendment with eight
24 subsets.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We need to get out of
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1 the public hearing before we do that.
2 MR. WEBB: Okay. Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller, is that what you
4 were going to say?
5 MS. ELLER: Sure.
6 At the conclusion of the public hearing,
7 once it's back within the committee, it would be
8 appropriate to move an amendment. And the
9 amendment could be the Planning Department
10 amendment as modified by the eight additional
11 concessions that the council member would read
12 into the record.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Perfect.
14 MR. WEBB: Very good.
15 Thank you. I have no further questions
16 then.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 I don't have anybody else in my queue,
19 so -- Councilmember Yarborough.
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 I have several questions.
22 We're still in the public hearing?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: We're still in the public
24 hearing. We're going to get answers from the
25 speakers and then get into the body.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Mr. -- actually,
2 before that, Mr. Hardesty, would you come up,
3 please, sir.
4 (Mr. Hardesty approaches the podium.)
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you for coming down
6 this afternoon -- this evening, Mr. Hardesty.
7 And, if you could, just briefly -- and I do
8 mean brief because I know we need to be
9 expeditious about this.
10 But you serve on the Planning Commission --
11 MR. HARDESTY: I do.
12 MR. YARBOROUGH: -- and were present at the
13 December 13th meeting when the vote was taken.
14 Could you, very briefly, just elaborate on
15 your take on this issue and what you thought
16 based on what was presented and why the
17 commission acted the way they did or why you
18 acted the way that you did, sir.
19 MR. HARDESTY: Yes, sir.
20 And I believe that there's been a
21 transcript produced by Ms. Tropia. It's an
22 excerpt of the meeting. It is about 200 and, I
23 believe, 75, 80 pages that outlines the
24 testimony that was provided over -- I want to
25 say eight or nine hours, in which the Planning
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1 Commission listened to the presentation of the
2 JAA as well as the opposition.
3 And during that time, there were a number
4 of individuals that spoke on both sides. And
5 the question that ultimately was there was, one,
6 are there individuals testifying that have the
7 expert ability to testify and that would be
8 backed up by the credibility of the safety
9 issue.
10 And what essentially the commission found
11 was -- in a six-to-two vote, was that, no, the
12 JAA had not provided sufficient expert evidence
13 of a safety issue, that indeed that was not the
14 true issue of what was going on, that -- it
15 appeared to be, from my take on it as a
16 commission member and listening to the
17 testimony, it was essentially, "We want to land
18 larger aircraft at this facility."
19 And one of the poignant issues that came
20 about was the promise of the Jacksonville Port
21 Authority, at the time, and -- and the way they
22 bargained for the split and the way they made a
23 very clear political calculation to promise not
24 to move forward with that in the future.
25 And, additionally, there were -- there was
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1 a letter directly from the Port Authority board
2 president or chairman, Mr. Fiorentino -- that I
3 believe you should have in your packets; we
4 certainly had it -- in conjunction with an
5 editorial that was provided by, I believe -- and
6 one of the members was Mr. Marco, I believe --
7 Mr. Austin, Mr. Marco and the other members
8 that laid out specifically, as Ms. Self
9 outlined, as to why they did it.
10 And if you read both Mr. Fiorentino's
11 letter in conjunction with the editorial, it's
12 abundantly clear that there was a very solid
13 promise that was made, and that's the
14 calculation.
15 And I hope that responds to your question.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Yes, sir. Thank you. I
17 appreciate it. And thank you, again, for being
18 here.
19 I see
20 Planning Commission. So I appreciate both of
21 you coming tonight.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. HARDESTY: Thank you.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: Mr. Thoburn, are you -- I
25 have a question or two for you too, sir.
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1 (Mr. Thoburn approaches the podium.)
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you.
3 I was reading -- I studied very intently
4 last night, after I had read it, I believe it's
5 dated December 7th, was the letter over your
6 signature, Mr. Thoburn, to the Planning
7 Commissioners before they acted on December 13th,
8 and just some concerns and then questions came
9 out of that. One about -- and I think it was
10 the fourth paragraph here, it mentions that --
11 the three primary issues surrounding the
12 discussion.
13 First, does the proposal benefit the
14 economy in Jacksonville; does it improve
15 safety. That was the second question. And
16 then, lastly, given the previous commitment --
17 these were your words: "Given the previous
18 commitment of the Planning and Development
19 Department, I believe the last question" --
20 which had to do with community impact -- "is of
21 far greater importance than the first two" --
22 which was safety and economics -- "and should,
23 in effect, trump them."
24 In other words, from the department's view,
25 it's not a question of whether it's economic or
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1 safety but the community impact.
2 How did you come to that conclusion?
3 It seems conflicting with what we're
4 hearing from the Authority versus -- even though
5 it was recommended for approval, it says the
6 community impact should outweigh the safety
7 argument.
8 MR. THOBURN: Through the Chair to
9 Councilman Yarborough, it was -- I was really
10 struggling with the fact that a previous
11 director had made this commitment or had
12 indicated that the department's policy was that
13 we would not support an extension. And while
14 I -- you know, as I mentioned earlier, I thought
15 that -- you know, my primary responsibility is
16 to provide you a sound report based on the best
17 data and analysis.
18 But I also had this letter out there, and I
19 was trying to think of how I could -- you know,
20 not just simply disregard it, and I thought
21 that -- what I was trying to say there was that
22 I felt that -- because of that, that the
23 community impact was a higher -- had a higher
24 value than -- from the report's perspective.
25 You might not have the same perspective. But
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1 when we evaluated our final recommendation, we
2 said we have to make that a higher
3 consideration.
4 Now, with that said, when we looked at how
5 the noise contour shifted and we made the
6 determination that it didn't have that negative
7 impact on the community because it actually
8 reduced the amount of homes in an area that was
9 in the contour -- so that was -- that was trying
10 to explain how we got to the report -- the
11 recommendation, and that was just --
12 I wanted to put out there the fact that we
13 really felt like -- because of the previous
14 policy statement that was made by the
15 department, that we had to kind of take a little
16 different look at it, and that was --
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: So am I correct to assume,
18 then, that, even though -- even though the
19 department recommended approval, it was not for
20 the primary reason of safety but the community
21 impact you believe was in existence?
22 MR. THOBURN: Well, I think if -- it wasn't
23 a case -- as you stated, it wasn't a case that,
24 you know, you had a positive safety impact and a
25 negative impact on the community and one was
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1 greater than the other. We really felt like
2 that there was -- there was a benefit of safety
3 and that there was not a demonstrated negative
4 impact on the community, and so we felt like
5 that that -- that that led to our position of
6 supporting it.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. One last question,
8 Mr. Thoburn.
9 Given all of the discussion surrounding
10 this issue, are you, as planning director,
11 convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that the
12 runway extension is absolutely in the best
13 interest of the community that surrounds
14 Craig Field?
15 MR. THOBURN: Based on the information
16 that's been provided to us -- and, again, we
17 relied heavily on the Part 150 study.
18 Yes, given the information that we have, we
19 believe it is in the best interest of the
20 Jacksonville community and will have a net
21 positive impact on the surrounding area,
22 frankly.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Beyond a reasonable
24 doubt?
25 MR. THOBURN: I'm not -- beyond a
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1 reasonable doubt?
2 MR. YARBOROUGH: Yes, sir.
3 MR. THOBURN: Well, I will tell you that
4 anytime you deal with projections -- you know, a
5 2020 projection, there's always a level of
6 uncertainty. But our decision and our
7 recommendation has to be based on reliable
8 information and reliable projections that are
9 based on sound methodology, and I believe our
10 recommendation is.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thank you,
12 Mr. Thoburn.
13 Mr. Chairman, I think I'll save the rest of
14 my comments for when we get into debate on the
15 bill. I know this is still public comments.
16 So thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 I've got a couple of questions.
19 Is Mr. Wolfe still here?
20 MR. WOLFE: Yes.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I need to -- a quick
22 question for you, and a quick question for
23 Ms. Donovan.
24 Is she still here or not?
25 (Mr. Wolfe approaches the podium.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Wolfe, you talked
2 earlier about that you were in the tower on 9/11
3 when the president ordered all the planes down.
4 MR. WOLFE: Yes, sir.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you have any trouble
6 landing any of the planes or did everybody land
7 safely?
8 MR. WOLFE: It was hard for the pilots to
9 understand that the transmissions that I was
10 sending out was something they never heard
11 before. It's not a customary -- we use a
12 different language than I use to talk to you.
13 We have a very basic language that allows us to
14 communicate effectively and shorter. And when I
15 put that added phraseology into it, they were
16 confused on why they had to do it because never
17 in our country's history has that happened
18 before.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I know you may not remember
20 this. How many planes did you have to get
21 down --
22 MR. WOLFE: I actually had an airplane
23 crash that day. An airplane came in, had a gear
24 problem. We knew he had a gear problem. He had
25 the choice of either to crash at our airport --
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1 he walked away safely -- or he had to pay the
2 fuel on two F-15s to escort him from
3 Jacksonville to Orlando. So he made the
4 decision to land at Craig.
5 Now, things happened. It was a mechanical
6 malfunction on the airplane. He walked away.
7 There was no damage. But I cannot tell you the
8 number of residents that called that tower that
9 day and told me that Jacksonville was being
10 bombarded by terrorists trying to blow up our
11 city.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. I
13 appreciate it.
14 Ms. Donovan.
15 (Ms. Donovan approaches the podium.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks for coming back up.
17 Reading through your comments that you gave
18 us when you spoke, you said in it that
19 6,300 feet would be the appropriate length
20 runway to make it safe.
21 I guess -- and maybe I'm asking --
22 shouldn't be asking you, should be asking
23 someone else. I don't know why we're not
24 talking about doing it at 6,300 feet instead of
25 6,000.
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1 MS. DONOVAN: I'm only -- I obtained that
2 data from the Advisory Circular.
3 I believe that the 6,000 foot request is an
4 attempt by the JAA to make a compromise to the
5 city, the opponents, that will reduce the runway
6 length enough that we -- we're making
7 accommodations to the opponents, that we want to
8 compromise and give them that win/win situation.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Perfect. That's what
10 I thought.
11 Thank you. I appreciate it.
12 MS. DONOVAN: Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: That's all the questions I
14 have. I don't see any lights lit up for
15 questions for the speaker.
16 So not seeing any, we will close the public
17 hearing and come back into committee.
18 If you want to speak, if you'll queue
19 yourself up, I would appreciate it.
20 We need a motion. I would --
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Inaudible.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, on the amendment
23 first. Mr. Webb discussed the amendment
24 earlier.
25 Mr. Webb.
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1 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
2 Through the Chair -- through the Chair, I
3 guess how would you like me to handle this?
4 I'd like to enter a floor amendment with
5 the eight issues as the JAA has previously
6 discussed and conceded.
7 Do you want me to read -- General Counsel,
8 should I read that into the record or --
9 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair and to the
10 Councilmember, certainly you can read those
11 eight -- it's not necessarily a floor amendment.
12 And also I just want to ask, is that in
13 addition to the original Planning Department
14 amendment that they had proposed earlier today?
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller had said earlier
16 that we could just wrap it all into one
17 amendment.
18 MR. WEBB: Fair enough.
19 MR. REINGOLD: And that's why I was asking
20 if it was in addition to that.
21 MR. WEBB: Ms. Eller, you have a copy of
22 it. Do you want to read it or do you want me to
23 read it?
24 MS. ELLER: You may read it into the
25 record.
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1 And the reason why I suggested that it be
2 in addition to the Planning Department amendment
3 is because the Planning Department had
4 substantially revised the text that's proposed
5 in the comp plan over what was originally
6 submitted, and I believe these changes are
7 actually making changes to things that had been
8 revised previously. So I think it just makes
9 more sense for the amendment to be offered as
10 the Planning Department amendment, as modified,
11 as the council member will read into the record.
12 And if I could get a nod from the Planning
13 Department if that makes sense to them.
14 MR. THOBURN: (Nods head.)
15 MR. WEBB: Okay. Very good, then.
16 Number 1, "Establish a blast fence/sound
17 buffer at each end of affected runways."
18 Number 2, "Enhance voluntary noise
19 abatement program" --
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Webb --
21 MR. WEBB: Slow down?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: -- you need to go slow
23 enough that Ms. Tropia can get it down --
24 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
25 Let me start again, and I apologize.
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1 Number 1, "Establish a blast fence/sound
2 buffer at each end of affected runways."
3 Number 2, "Enhance voluntary noise
4 abatement program through published notices.
5 JAA will establish automated noise monitoring
6 system within the noise-impacted areas as
7 defined by FAA."
8 Number 3, "Work with the fixed base
9 operations to reduce hours of operations; that
10 is, to voluntarily limit hours which would be
11 best tied to official sunrise and sunset."
12 Number 4, "JAA imposition of prior approval
13 requirements on any aircraft that exceeds the
14 airport reference code; that is, the ARC
15 standards."
16 Number 5 -- and I'm certain there will be
17 debate on this -- "Reduce proposed usable runway
18 length to 5,600 instead of 6,000 feet."
19 Number 6, "The JAA agrees not to increase
20 capacity of the surrounding infrastructure; that
21 is, taxiways, apron."
22 Number 7, "Fifty percent of the eleven
23 acres on the corner of Monument and St. Johns
24 Bluff Road will be committed into a land
25 conservation."
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1 Number 8, "No FAR, Part 139 Certification
2 of the airport."
3 And I'm going to offer number 9 and
4 number 10.
5 "No deepening, no thickening of the
6 existing runway, and no additional runway."
7 And number, I guess, 10, "Any modification
8 of the comp plan with regard to
9 modifications" -- excuse me -- "extensions or
10 additional runways at Craig should be subject to
11 super majority of the council."
12 MS. JONES: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a
14 second on the amendment.
15 Mr. Clark, can you come up and verify
16 that's what -- your understanding of the
17 amendment.
18 (Mr. J. Clark approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Clark --
20 MR. J. CLARK: Yes, sir.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: -- did you understand and
22 agree that that amendment was proposed by the
23 Airport Authority?
24 MR. J. CLARK: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I do.
25 And I will go back to the board and
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1 strongly make that recommendation. From an
2 operating standpoint, I had discussed these with
3 Mr. Falconetti. And I believe from an airport
4 operating standpoint, it would work very well
5 with the JAA to do that, but I would -- in all
6 fairness, I would have to go back to my board
7 and make that recommendation.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Okay. Perfect.
9 Thank you. I appreciate it.
10 And we -- and there's an assumption, I
11 think, on the council's part that the Airport
12 Authority would have a meeting and would
13 consider that --
14 MR. J. CLARK: Yes.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: -- prior to next Tuesday.
16 MR. J. CLARK: Okay.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that your understanding?
18 MR. J. CLARK: What I will do is I will
19 make sure I have contact with the board members
20 and by next Tuesday be able to give you an
21 answer.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
23 Councilman -- and we're getting copies of
24 what was just read for people that need it.
25 Councilmember Yarborough.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you.
2 We are on the amendment, right?
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Is there a second?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And we'll have a
7 copy. I didn't quite get number 1 and number 8
8 when you were reading those, Mr. Webb. So
9 they're going to do that. Okay.
10 If I could just ask Ms. Eller -- excuse
11 me. Does the City -- you know, a lot of these
12 things get into the -- very much get into the
13 legal arena. Does the City even have the legal
14 authority to limit the aircraft or the
15 lengthening or deepening of the runway out at
16 Craig Field?
17 If we acknowledge that as a council, that
18 we -- well, if you'll -- I'm starting another
19 question. If you can answer that one, then I'll
20 ask --
21 MS. ELLER: You're exercising your
22 authority through the comprehensive plan because
23 you're choosing to add these restrictions into
24 your comp plan. So the authority that the
25 council and the City has under Chapter 163 to
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1 enforce a comp plan and to hold all development
2 and redevelopment and permitting to comp plan
3 standards, that's where you're getting your
4 authority to add those types of things into the
5 comp plan.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thank you.
7 I did write down what I could. And until
8 we get the copy, I won't be able to scrutinize
9 it much more yet.
10 But as far as noise abatement, Mr. Webb,
11 the -- they already have a noise abatement
12 program at Craig Airport. They already have
13 one. That addresses the second item you
14 mentioned.
15 And as far as number 10, any modification
16 of the comp plan should be a super majority,
17 really just the substance of that, folks were
18 already told that there wasn't going to be
19 another extension of the runway.
20 And to compromise on this and to increase
21 it from 4,000 to 5,600, that's still doing what
22 before -- it was in the comp plan that said
23 would not happen, and what the council and the
24 Authority said before would not happen.
25 How can we trust that tomorrow, if you
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1 will, in a figurative way, once something is
2 passed -- we all know as lawmakers anything
3 tomorrow that we've done today can be undone
4 with enough votes. How can the folks that are
5 out there in the community trust what we're
6 saying here that we would do or what the
7 Authority says it will do? Because that's the
8 exact reason we're here right now.
9 And this is not directed at you, but the
10 substance of what's being proposed.
11 MR. WEBB: Well, I would like to -- through
12 the Chair, if I could respond to the question.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Sure.
14 MR. WEBB: I mean, your point, Mr. Council
15 Representative, is a valid one.
16 However, as I indicated before, the trust
17 issue I do not necessarily view as one between
18 this existing council and the community. This a
19 matter of first impression before this committee
20 and before this council.
21 The representation, whatever form it took
22 or whoever made it, whoever had the authority,
23 real or imagined, was not a member of this City
24 Council.
25 That being the case, how do we make certain
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1 that the JAA is more or less put in a box
2 procedurally going forward? The two-thirds
3 super majority.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Let me ask this,
5 then, to the sponsor: Why lengthen it to
6 5,600 feet? That's condition number 5. Why?
7 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
8 Through the Chair to Mr. Yarborough, based
9 on the discussions that I've had with the JAA
10 over this, the -- and maybe Mr. Falconetti or
11 someone from the JAA can speak to this. As I
12 said before, I thought we may have some
13 discussion and debate on that particular line
14 item.
15 But that 5,600 is an acceptable number,
16 that to which it can be reduced in order to
17 address safety issues.
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. But in a few more
19 years, what stops anyone from coming back and
20 saying now we want the 6,300 feet that
21 Ms. Donovan mentioned?
22 MR. WEBB: It needs to have a super
23 majority of the council.
24 MR. YARBOROUGH: But, still, somebody could
25 come back -- the Authority or whoever could come
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1 back and say now we want 6,300, and they would
2 have, at that time, 5,600 --
3 MR. WEBB: Through the Chair to
4 Mr. Yarborough, when this process began, we had
5 many discussions with the JAA, and I told them
6 very clearly my position was that -- my view, in
7 light of the representations that had been made
8 to the community, there was a preponderance --
9 a presumption -- excuse me -- against granting
10 the extension because of those representations.
11 That being the case, however, it's a
12 rebuttable presumption. Circumstances may, in
13 fact, change. And if five years down the road
14 circumstances, in fact, do change, I deem it to
15 be the responsibility of the existing council to
16 consider all the evidence before it and to make
17 a determination based on the evidence as it
18 exists in that time in light of the prior
19 representations that may have been made five
20 years earlier.
21 However -- but to keep them honest, to make
22 certain that modifications are not offered in a
23 frivolous manner, I deem it appropriate to
24 subject them to a two-thirds majority.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Well, you stated that the
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1 5,600 feet was acceptable to the Aviation
2 Authority. Are you convinced that this is
3 really an argument about needing a longer runway
4 for safety's sake? Are you convinced of that,
5 Mr. Webb?
6 MR. WEBB: I am.
7 Thank you.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 Councilwoman Lee.
12 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 I've asked legal to, if they could, show me
14 the differences between what the Planning
15 Department recommended as opposed to Mr. Webb's
16 amendment, and that is being reviewed as we
17 speak.
18 And my question was, with what Mr. Webb has
19 proposed, does it coincide with any of the
20 language that's to be added into the comp plan
21 that's been recommended by the Planning
22 Department, and we can see a comparable side by
23 side.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
25 And, Ms. Eller, you want to address that?
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1 MS. ELLER: Dylan is doing that right now.
2 There are some things that are in the ten
3 conditions offered by Councilmember Webb that
4 are new, that weren't included in the Planning
5 Department's text, and there are some things in
6 here that specifically modify language in the
7 Planning Department's text. For example, the
8 6,000 feet being reduced to 5,600 and the like.
9 So Dylan is doing a quick side-by-side
10 comparison to give it to the councilmember.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Lee, go ahead.
12 MS. LEE: Okay. Thank you.
13 Well, I'll refrain from asking him a
14 question until I get that comparable. I think,
15 you know, before I vote, I would certainly want
16 to see what the -- you know, what -- the
17 comparable.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
19 MS. LEE: And in light of what Mr. Clark
20 has said, that he would go back to his board, he
21 seems to be amenable to the amendment, but I --
22 we know that we've got a report from the
23 Planning Department, so . . .
24 THE CHAIRMAN: To Ms. Eller, there was a
25 pending bill, which I apologize for not having
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1 the number, that was going to require two-thirds
2 majority to lengthen any runway. That was a
3 J bill; is that correct?
4 Mr. Bishop, you may be able to answer that.
5 That was a J bill or that was a resolution
6 by the Council?
7 MR. BISHOP: No, Mr. Chairman. That was a
8 proposed J bill.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That answers my
10 question. Thank you.
11 Councilmember Shad.
12 MR. SHAD: Thank you.
13 I was actually going in the same direction.
14 Shannon, we can -- it's proper to have in
15 the amendment the two-thirds vote. Can you
16 speak to that? I thought it would require a
17 J bill. Or since we're amending the text to the
18 comp plan, is that why we can do it?
19 MS. ELLER: Yes.
20 What you put into the comp plan is at your
21 discretion. You can require that a subsequent
22 action amending the comp plan locally have a
23 two-thirds vote because you're permitted to do
24 something more restrictive than what's in the
25 statute.
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1 MR. SHAD: Got you. Okay.
2 I'll speak briefly to the trust issue.
3 You know, most of us have -- for the last
4 couple of months, have been digesting this horse
5 trading that was done through the Port Authority
6 and the community a number of years back and
7 what commitment that has upon me.
8 You know, I really would like to base my
9 decision based on the facts before me today. I
10 think I've heard evidence in the form of
11 newspaper articles and testimony and letters
12 that -- from the members of the Port Authority,
13 at that time, who indicated they didn't think
14 this would be binding on the newly-established
15 Airport Authority.
16 And I don't know, was there ever anything
17 from the newly-established Airport Authority
18 that confirmed the action from the previous
19 Port Authority? I don't know if there was. And
20 maybe someone can mention if there was anything
21 from the Airport Authority that followed up with
22 the commitment.
23 But regardless of what commitments they
24 made, what predecessors have made, I think about
25 what I would expect if I was to horse trade and
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1 make a deal like that. I hope that I wouldn't.
2 But if I did, I don't think I would expect
3 future councils, in perpetuity, to ignore the
4 current facts and refuse to visit an issue
5 because of a compromise. And, you know, it was
6 just a plain old-fashion horse trade that was
7 made almost a decade earlier.
8 The facts before us are that this runway is
9 so outdated, they simply just don't build them
10 anymore, and you're not going to find runways
11 like it elsewhere.
12 We've heard evidence that -- I feel
13 confident from the evidence that I've heard that
14 noise is not an issue, but I do feel that the
15 noise will not get any worse as an issue. If
16 noise is an issue now, it will continue to be an
17 issue, but the increase of noise will not be an
18 issue.
19 In fact, we've heard evidence the other
20 way, that the noise will actually get better,
21 the noise will actually get lower in certain
22 neighborhoods, in the majority of the
23 neighborhoods.
24 And I do feel that, like our port, like our
25 highways, like our railroads, that it is
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1 important, vital -- extremely vital
2 infrastructure.
3 And I think it's a good amendment, and I
4 think I could support this with the amendment
5 that's in place. And I think it's important to
6 make a higher standard there, and two-thirds
7 majority does that going forward.
8 So I look forward to hearing the rest of
9 the debate and reserve the opportunity to change
10 my mind, but that's where I'm at now.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: We're still on the amendment
13 and Mr. Reingold is going to answer Councilwoman
14 Lee's question.
15 MR. REINGOLD: To the councilmember and to
16 the committee as a whole, I've taken just a scan
17 through the ten proposed portions of the
18 amendment against the Planning Department
19 recommended amendment, and here's sort of my
20 view of it:
21 First off, "Establish blast/fence sound
22 buffer at each end of the affected runways." I
23 believe that's something new. I don't see any
24 language about that.
25 Number 2, "Enhanced voluntary noise
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1 abatement program through published notices."
2 That appears to be a slight overlap. There is
3 some discussion here about "JAA will continue to
4 develop and monitor an FAA-approved noise
5 abatement program that will minimize flights
6 over residential areas." It seems to be sort of
7 an enhancing of that condition.
8 Number 3, "Work with FBOs to reduce hours
9 of operations." I don't see any discussion in
10 here about limitation of hours, so that would be
11 new.
12 Number 4, "JAA will impose a prior approval
13 requirement on any aircraft that exceeds the
14 airport reference code standards." That appears
15 to be new.
16 Number 5, "Reduce the proposed usable
17 runway length to 5,600 instead of 6,000."
18 That's a reduction from the proposal in the bill
19 itself.
20 Number 6, "will not increase capacity of
21 the surrounding infrastructure." That appears
22 to be new.
23 Number 7 is the eleven acres on the corner
24 of Monument and St. John's Bluff Road. Also
25 appears to be new.
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1 Number 8 is, "No FAR, Part 139
2 Certification of airport." That appears to be
3 an overlap with 8.1.4(D), which says that the
4 JAA will not apply to FAA for an FAR, Part 139
5 Certificate for Craig Airfield. So that appears
6 to be an overlap.
7 Additionally, number 9 was, "no thickening
8 and no additional runway." It appears to be
9 new.
10 And finally, "two-thirds majority for any
11 future changes," that also appears to be new.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a clarification
13 question on number 10, I guess it is, the
14 two-thirds majority for any future changes.
15 Does that mean, if they want to put new
16 striping down, they have to have a two-thirds
17 majority from the council?
18 MS. ELLER: No. I believe it was
19 two-thirds majority to amend the comp plan,
20 again, regarding this portion of the comp plan.
21 I believe that's what I understood from
22 Councilman Webb.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I just want to make
24 sure we're clear. I didn't want them to have to
25 come to us every time they change the lightbulbs
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1 out there.
2 Okay. Councilmember Lee.
3 MS. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest that
5 legal prepare an analysis, a side-by-side chart,
6 whatever you want to call it, to show what's
7 new, as he just articulated what was new as it
8 related to what the Planning Department
9 recommended.
10 And I think -- I would certainly like to
11 have that before the City Council meeting, you
12 know, as soon as possible. And I think in that
13 way, it becomes very clear exactly, you know,
14 what's being proposed.
15 The other thing -- I would like to ask a
16 question. The proposal from 6,000 to 5,600, I
17 don't recall, did the Planning Department agree
18 with -- I think you said that was contained in
19 the body of the original bill; am I correct?
20 MS. ELLER: The Planning Department
21 recommended changes included 6,000, and then the
22 proposal from Councilmember Webb reduces it to
23 5,600. And I don't know that we've heard from
24 the Planning Department, any comment on that
25 change.
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1 MS. LEE: I would -- I would like to hear
2 from them on that change because -- I think it
3 was Mr. Yarborough or maybe Mr. Corrigan who
4 asked Mr. Thoburn, I thought, some very pointed
5 questions as it related to how did he feel about
6 this in that they did their homework as much as
7 possible.
8 So I would just like to know, inasmuch as
9 the Planning Department recommends the extension
10 of the runway, now that this amendment is being
11 proposed with that particular change, what is
12 your position on that?
13 MR. THOBURN: Well, in all fairness, we
14 haven't had a chance to review that -- the
15 proposed runway length in any great detail.
16 I don't have any objection to it on the
17 surface, you know. It would -- it would
18 probably ultimately change the contour a little
19 bit, and I don't know off the top of my head how
20 that would impact some of the assumptions that
21 we made, but it would continue to have some of
22 the benefits of shifting the runway away from
23 the Holly Oaks area.
24 So my -- I would -- you know, without
25 having the benefit of additional analysis, I
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1 would say that we would continue to support it,
2 but . . .
3 MS. LEE: You would continue to support
4 the extension --
5 MR. THOBURN: Yeah, we'd support -- we
6 would be -- we would not have any objection to
7 the amendment.
8 MS. LEE: All right.
9 Again, Mr. Chairman, I will reserve any
10 other comments until I get that information.
11 But I've sat here and I -- with some
12 hesitancy. I contemplated on if I should
13 probably even make any comments on some things
14 that were said earlier by some of the speakers
15 that tend to be a little disturbing as it
16 relates to the words "honorable" and "trust."
17 I guess most of you all know most recently
18 I had a situation in the area that I represented
19 where things occurred prior to me coming. And I
20 think you articulated it very well, that I think
21 everybody has good faith, but circumstances
22 change, bodies change, and therefore changes
23 many times occur.
24 I don't think -- even though a lot of times
25 things are portrayed one way and they really
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1 aren't like that. And I think this is almost
2 another example to me of that, whereas there are
3 those that felt that, because something happened
4 prior, you know, at least to me being a
5 representative, that it should stay like that.
6 But after investigation, we found that there
7 were actually errors and some other things.
8 And I don't think that anybody is
9 dishonorable, you know. You know, "honorable"
10 is just attached to our letterhead really, you
11 know, and I think it's a matter of opinion.
12 But I just wanted to address that. And
13 those who feel that way, you know, just to let
14 them know that I certainly don't have any
15 intentions of not attempting to honor
16 commitments that might have occurred before I
17 came.
18 But as you know, things change. Initially,
19 the Planning Department was not, I don't think,
20 supporting this, were they? It wasn't until
21 recently where they made an opinion; am I
22 correct?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: No. Their report on this
24 bill was in support.
25 MS. LEE: I understand that. But, I mean,
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1 back further. Things change.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll let Mr. Thoburn come
3 and address that.
4 (Inaudible discussion.)
5 MS. LEE: Prior.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
7 MS. LEE: Prior directors.
8 As a matter of record, I happen to be the
9 bill carrier for the split of the port, if you
10 recall, in the House of Representatives when I
11 served in the House. At that particular time,
12 it was the Port Authority, you know, with the
13 airport and the port, the seaport.
14 And I guess those making a decision then
15 were making it based on trying to get the split,
16 which I think everybody knows has proven to be
17 very beneficial to our city. There is no
18 question.
19 And so, you know, it's one of these issues
20 where, you know, if I'm going to vote, then I
21 don't have a problem standing up and stating my
22 vote and why, whether it's for or against,
23 because I think you owe that to the people. I
24 don't think you ought to throw a rock and hide.
25 And I just wish we would not think that --
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1 because people have questions and concerns, that
2 they're being dishonorable.
3 I think that Mr. Yarborough has done a --
4 you know, no different than anybody else should
5 do as a district councilperson or an at-large
6 person when something is this controversial.
7 And I think people have worked together
8 without a lot of divisiveness, you know. I
9 think -- the airport, the people. But it is
10 emotional, and I think that that's what we have
11 to realize, that politics is emotional. It
12 doesn't feel good voting against anybody or
13 voting for anybody.
14 But I wanted to personally ask for the
15 comparison. I think we need it because I
16 don't -- I will -- whatever the wish of the
17 committee.
18 A lot of times we vote to get things out or
19 keep them in, but things change when we get to
20 the council floor, and I just want to make sure
21 that we have all of the information and would
22 not believe that people are dishonorable because
23 you have differences of opinion.
24 I think Mr. Webb did a pretty good job of
25 articulating that position, and that's all I
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1 have to say.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
3 Lee.
4 I'm going to go to Councilmember Bishop.
5 He's raised his hand for a while.
6 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 What I'm hearing here tonight concerns me
8 on a number of fronts. A lot of the proposed
9 amendments that have been offered here this
10 evening sound good, they may feel good, but at
11 the end of the day, they really don't accomplish
12 anything.
13 Noise abatement is voluntary, it has no
14 enforcement and it really doesn't mean
15 anything. The only point at which it becomes
16 meaningful is in matters that are so egregious
17 that the problem has gone on far too long in the
18 first place. They're not enforceable; they're
19 all voluntary. That's by FAA rules.
20 With respect to limiting FBO operators, we
21 don't even know if that's even possible at this
22 point because there's existing contracts in
23 place. That's a wish-list item.
24 The 5,600 feet, 6,000 feet, at the end of
25 the day, you're talking about a minor -- a minor
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1 amount of distance that, at the end of the day,
2 we have essentially rewarded the Airport
3 Authority for irresponsible behavior.
4 They have known for 35 years how to create
5 a general reliever airport in Jacksonville with
6 the proper ILS capabilities that everybody keeps
7 talking about. They were told back in 1973 that
8 if this is what they need to do, they need to --
9 they either need to buy up more land at Craig
10 Airport or they need to move. They did neither
11 one.
12 Throughout the succeeding 20-some-odd
13 years, there have been rezonings and land use
14 changes and thousands and thousands of housing
15 units build up around that airport. Not one
16 time did they ever stand up and say, "Hey, wait
17 a minute. There's an airport here, folks. We
18 need to protect this. Should we be really doing
19 this?" Not once.
20 Since 2001, 22,000 housing units have been
21 permitted and constructed in and around
22 Craig Field. We've heard that from someone in
23 the business that knows the numbers.
24 Not one time during all of those
25 construction efforts did the Airport Authority
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1 ever come around and say, "Hey, wait a minute,
2 guys. We've got an airport here. We need to
3 protect its boundaries."
4 People made life decisions based on a
5 document that was produced in 2001. Whether it
6 has legal enforcement or not, at this point, at
7 the end of the day, from a moral prospective, it
8 has value. People made life decisions that had
9 real impact on their lives based on that. It is
10 a matter of trust.
11 There is an amendment floating around in
12 the state at the moment. It's called Hometown
13 Democracy. I have never been in favor of this
14 because I don't think at the end of the day it's
15 the proper thing to do. But it's actions like
16 this, where decisions made yesterday get changed
17 on a lark tomorrow, people lose faith with the
18 ability of the governing bodies to make the
19 proper decisions. That's the reason why stuff
20 like that gets traction.
21 If we vote to allow this extension, we will
22 have taken one more step closer to irrelevance
23 as a body because people can't trust their own
24 government; what they say today is of no value
25 tomorrow. So how can people make intelligent
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1 decisions on what to do?
2 Keep in mind this issue has real physical
3 impact on people's lives. When we start
4 becoming willing to sell out specific parts of
5 the community for the nebulous better interest
6 of the city, we go down a very slippery slope.
7 Today this happens to be in District 2. It
8 happens to be a very big deal. Tomorrow it
9 could be somewhere else.
10 And a city is only as good as its
11 neighborhoods. When we start selling out a
12 neighborhood for the greater good, who is to say
13 tomorrow it won't be somewhere else? And before
14 the end of the day, what's left? Yes, it's a
15 philosophical concept and, yes, it's one of
16 those nebulous "what ifs."
17 But I think that's part of what we deal
18 with when we get into the area of public policy,
19 and that's what this is. This is a political
20 argument, this is a political discussion, it's a
21 policy discussion.
22 The concept of safety is subjective. We've
23 heard people talk about it, we need it for
24 safety for pilots. That may be true. What
25 about the safety of the communities?
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1 What about when we have 5,600 feet on the
2 ground or we have 6,000 feet on the ground, we
3 have one of those big planes that doesn't land
4 there today because it can't, but it can
5 tomorrow, and it decides to fly in there
6 marginally because there's only 5,600 feet
7 instead of 6,000, what happens when that plane
8 crashes into Kensington or that plane crashes
9 into Holly Oaks? Do we want to be responsible
10 for people's lives, to sort of take that
11 argument around the other way? Because that's
12 what we're doing here.
13 This is -- in reality, this is an obsolete
14 facility that should -- at best, should not be
15 changed into anything other than what it is,
16 which is a small, private airfield for general
17 aviation, small plane activity. That's what it
18 is, that's what it does, that's what people were
19 told it would stay to be.
20 If we want to change the mission -- and I
21 don't argue that there's a valid point to having
22 that mission -- it ought not to be here because
23 we've also heard that if that runway is
24 extended, the capability or the capacity or the
25 configuration of that runway ought to have clear
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1 safety zones around it far in excess of what's
2 even possible to do.
3 That, I would submit, is an irresponsible
4 act on the part of this council, if we approve
5 that, because we are deliberately putting people
6 in harm's way. By FAA's documentation, there
7 should be clear zones around that runway that we
8 can't provide. That, to me, is irresponsible.
9 The only responsible thing to do here
10 tonight is to recommend denial of this. And if
11 there is anything that can come out of these
12 discussions of a compromise nature or some sort
13 of meeting of the minds, it needs to be done in
14 a process that's not rushed down at the last
15 second because the law of unintended
16 consequences will come back to bite us on this
17 if we don't do this in the proper manner.
18 This whole exercise is irresponsible. It
19 needs to be shelved, it needs to be voted down
20 for all the reasons I've identified. And I'm
21 strongly urging that you do this for not only
22 the good of our -- of my district or Councilman
23 Yarborough's neighboring district, but the city
24 as a whole because the concept here is a big one
25 that everybody, at some point down the line,
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1 will come into face with and you need to think
2 about what this is going to do to your area when
3 a similar issue comes across.
4 Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Councilmember
6 Bishop.
7 Councilmember Yarborough.
8 MR. YARBOROUGH: I'll yield.
9 MR. SHAD: Call the question.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: What?
11 MR. SHAD: Call the question.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: No need to call the question
13 if nobody is in the queue.
14 MS. LEE: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I hear you.
16 I have some concerns on the specificity of
17 the amendment. I think we probably need to be a
18 little more detailed on the -- if it passes this
19 committee, I would look to want to put a little
20 more detail to this amendment before it gets to
21 Tuesday night. So I'll tell you that up front.
22 Having said that and seeing no other
23 speakers, all in favor of the amendment signal
24 by saying aye.
25 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
2 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
4 MR. SHAD: Move the bill as amended.
5 MS. JONES: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second
7 on 2007-1240 as amended.
8 Councilmember Yarborough.
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 I don't want to go on too much longer with
11 it. I don't think I can top, if you will, what
12 Mr. Bishop has said. I'll just make some
13 statements. I won't ask anymore questions.
14 But just, again, in my observation of the
15 staff report and then, actually, the language of
16 the text amendment itself, which I don't think
17 anybody brought up, but that's included on
18 page -- I think it's page 2 of 3, under the
19 transportation element part that was in our
20 packet.
21 There are several things that raise
22 concern, Mr. Chairman and members of the
23 committee. According to our charter, I believe
24 JAA has eminent domain power. And it mentions
25 in here, in the text amendment itself, where the
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1 new language has been inserted, "Any residence
2 located in the most recently updated noise
3 impacted areas defined by FAA will be eligible
4 for purchase by JAA in accordance with FAA
5 policies and procedures for purchase of property
6 for noise compatibility purposes at fair market
7 value."
8 Well, my question -- I guess I do have a
9 question, and I'm not sure who it would be to.
10 But if JAA has eminent domain power and
11 someone chooses not to sell, can their property
12 or home be taken from them?
13 MS. ELLER: Yes.
14 This language here is just a statement of
15 the laws that exist today. And I'll defer to
16 JAA, but they have eminent domain power in
17 accordance with FAA, so they can exercise
18 eminent domain and do everything that you can do
19 under eminent domain, which is to go to court
20 and enforce the sale.
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And I'm not sure
22 who this would be to. Maybe to you, Ms. Eller.
23 Right underneath that, on this page, if
24 you're in that -- in Exhibit 1, revised
25 Exhibit 1, the last part of section A there that
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1 talks about the Part 161 study, and then at the
2 very last line, it says, "noise contours is
3 given" -- "the May 22, 2007, FAA approved" --
4 May 22nd was just this last year, just a
5 number of months ago. Has this been amended
6 since it was back, I guess, some years ago to --
7 that's a very recent date in there that's
8 included as existing language. Should that be
9 underlined as new language instead?
10 MS. ELLER: Let me defer to the Planning
11 Department on that, as to whether or not that
12 May 22, 2007, date is -- if this underlying
13 language is underlining over a previous version
14 or if this is the true underlining for
15 replacement in the comp plan.
16 That's the question.
17 MR. THOBURN: This is -- it's new language,
18 and the May 22nd date is the date that the
19 Part 150 study was approved by FAA.
20 MS. ELLER: So it, technically, should
21 be -- all this should be underlined, then, as
22 addition language in the comp plan.
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: It reads as though it's
24 existing, but it should all be underlined; is
25 that right?
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1 MR. THOBURN: Yes, it should be --
2 MS. ELLER: I believe that should all be
3 underlined.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. That's --
5 MR. THOBURN: My copy has -- okay.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: It looks as though it's
7 all existing there at that part.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Paragraph A should be
9 underlined?
10 MS. ELLER: Everything --
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: So all of paragraph A
12 should be underlined; is that correct?
13 MS. ELLER: A, B and C --
14 MR. YARBOROUGH: A, B and C.
15 MS. ELLER: -- and D and E.
16 I mean, it's all new because the previous
17 8.1.4, all it said was "provided, however, that
18 no further expansion of this runway shall be
19 permitted."
20 So everything following that --
21 MR. YARBOROUGH: So all of that is new.
22 Okay.
23 At the top of that, where it says 8.1.4, it
24 says, "The City shall continue to support the
25 maintenance of Craig Airport in its current role
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1 as a general" -- and what it did say was
2 "general utility reliever airport," and now
3 it's been suggested to be changed to "general
4 aviation reliever airport to JIA."
5 Why was this change put in? And what's the
6 difference between a general utility reliever
7 and a general aviation reliever, if somebody can
8 answer that question. What's the difference?
9 Mr. Clark, if you could, please, sir.
10 (Mr. J. Clark approaches the podium.)
11 MR. J. CLARK: Through the Chair to
12 Councilmember Yarborough. "Utility" is not
13 even -- is no longer recognized by the FAA. So
14 it's just an update in terminology. It's a
15 general aviation reliever airport.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: So the aviation term means
17 exactly --
18 MR. J. CLARK: You can take away the
19 "utility."
20 MR. YARBOROUGH: Does it mean exactly the
21 same thing as a utility airport, then?
22 MR. J. CLARK: Yes. It's just classified
23 as a general aviation reliever airport. That
24 would be the correct terminology.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. And then to add the
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1 words "to JIA," why was that put in?
2 MR. J. CLARK: Because the pronunciation of
3 "reliever" is -- the purpose is designed to
4 relieve a carrier airport, an air carrier
5 airport. That's what it's relieving. It's
6 relieving air traffic congestion from a
7 commercial primary airport, and JIA is the
8 commercial service airport for the region.
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: All right. That makes
10 sense.
11 Thank you.
12 Okay. Let's see. I heard -- I don't know
13 if this was brought up specifically when a
14 speaker came up, but is Craig classified right
15 now as a --
16 Mr. Clark, maybe you can answer this too.
17 I'm sorry.
18 Is Craig currently classified as a B-2, a
19 C-2? What is it currently classified as?
20 MR. J. CLARK: It is a B-2 that has been
21 master planned to a C-2, and it is -- if you
22 take the current operations now, it is --
23 because it has more than 500 operations per year
24 with aircraft that are in the C class, it would
25 be a C category aircraft.
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1 MR. YARBOROUGH: And you said it was
2 through a master plan that it changed from B
3 to --
4 MR. J. CLARK: If you look at the current
5 master -- excuse me. Through the Chair to
6 Councilman Yarborough.
7 If you look at the current master plan that
8 is before the FAA for Craig Airport, it is
9 classified as a C-2 by the airport reference
10 category.
11 MR. YARBOROUGH: You mentioned through
12 master planning, but you just said it was before
13 FAA, so it hasn't been approved yet?
14 MR. J. CLARK: That's correct.
15 MR. YARBOROUGH: It hasn't been approved?
16 MR. J. CLARK: That's correct.
17 MR. YARBOROUGH: So are we still under the
18 2001 master plan for Craig Field? Is that the
19 one that's still in effect today?
20 MR. J. CLARK: Is that right?
21 MR. STEWART: (Inaudible.)
22 MR. YARBOROUGH: That's the most recent --
23 up to the '07 one; is that --
24 MR. J. CLARK: Yes, that would be correct.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: And that classifies it
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1 still as a B-2?
2 MR. J. CLARK: Correct.
3 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. So really it should
4 only be designated as a B-2. C-2 hasn't been
5 approved yet; is that right?
6 MR. J. CLARK: That is correct.
7 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. I find that very
8 interesting.
9 Okay. In the staff analysis -- this is
10 back on page 15, committee members, of the --
11 it's under the applicant's justification part.
12 It's in the 20-page part of the staff report.
13 In the third paragraph, under Staff
14 Analysis, it says, "The earliest recommendation
15 of a 6,000-foot runway in the material provided
16 to the Department by the applicant is in the
17 master plan airport update to Craig Airport
18 dated October 2001."
19 I found it very interesting, that date of
20 October of 2001. And it's saying that that was
21 the recommendation of a 6,000-foot runway. That
22 was five calendar months after the letter from
23 Mr. Fiorentino came to Ms. Hipps and
24 Mr. Carlucci as the leadership of the council
25 that recognized that they had just given nearly
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1 half a million dollars back to the Florida
2 Department of Land -- Florida Department of
3 Transportation, excuse me, for land acquisition
4 to be used for buffer land or whatever else they
5 may have chosen to do it for. That was only
6 five months after that had been done.
7 Yes, they could have -- maybe this is more
8 of a comment, but it's just rather unbelievable
9 to me that that was only five months -- that's
10 not years after. That was within the same year
11 and only five months after, that there was
12 already -- at least according to the information
13 the Planning Department got, that they were
14 already pursuing it only five months after the
15 letter having been sent saying, "We are never
16 going to do that again."
17 So, actually, I'm jumping back to that same
18 calendar year to use the argument, it's not a
19 six-year-old one we're talking about. It's one
20 that started right back up, five months after
21 those letters were done, that resolution was
22 done by the Port Authority at the time. It
23 started up five months after they said, "We're
24 not going to do it."
25 I think it totally amplifies what
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1 Mr. Bishop said and what Councilwoman Self said,
2 that there was a severe erosion of trust there.
3 I hope I'm coming across clearly,
4 everybody. It's not a six-year-old argument,
5 really, if you look at that. October of 2001.
6 According to the information that the
7 airport folks gave to the Planning Department,
8 it was within the same year that they had just
9 given back half a million dollars that could
10 have been used for land acquisition there at the
11 airport.
12 I think that's very material. That's not
13 an emotional argument; that's fact. It's right
14 here in the text.
15 Another thing that's very material in the
16 discussion that I found -- and I'll pose it as a
17 question. I don't want to assume that I know --
18 I know this.
19 But one of the questions that was put in
20 here, included in the staff report, the question
21 was, "Can you tell us whether there's a smaller
22 weight of plane that would accomplish the bulk
23 of the JAA objectives?"
24 The response was, "The FAA runway length
25 standard references aircraft at 60,000 pounds or
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1 less. It provides a list of the 75 percent
2 fleet and the 100 percent fleet. JAA's
3 objective is to provide a safe runway for the
4 75 to 100 percent fleet at 60 percent useful
5 load."
6 My questing is, is that 75 percent of total
7 operations at the --
8 Mr. Seymour, if you could, is that
9 75 percent of the total operations which exceed
10 100,000 a year, or is that just 75 percent of
11 the 4,920 business jets that use Craig Field?
12 Is it a total percentage or just based on
13 that small number?
14 (Mr. Seymour approaches the podium.)
15 MR. SEYMOUR: First off, let me respond to
16 a couple of other comments that you made before
17 that.
18 MR. YARBOROUGH: Sure.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Seymour, give me your
20 name and address, please.
21 MR. SEYMOUR: Hubert Seymour, 13825
22 Fiddlers Point Drive, Jacksonville, 32225.
23 And I'm the senior manager for planning for
24 the Airport Authority.
25 When the two grants were turned back in to
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1 FDOT, they were turned back in because the
2 grants had expired -- or were expiring, and we
3 had not been able to work a willing buyer, a
4 willing seller arrangement with any of the
5 property owners that we were looking at.
6 Those properties are for small pieces of
7 the runway protection zones that we were looking
8 to have some control over. They were not turned
9 back in because of the board -- any action that
10 the board took.
11 On the point about the -- can you restate
12 your other question, please.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: About the percentage?
14 MR. SEYMOUR: The question you were asking
15 me at the end.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. It was -- it was in
17 regards to the 75 percent that it mentioned as
18 far as -- it said a list of the -- it was
19 75 percent of the fleet basically that would, I
20 guess, be the ones that would benefit the most
21 from the runway extension.
22 Is that 75 -- is that supposed to read as
23 75 percent of total operations, which well
24 exceeds 100,000 a year, or is it 75 percent of
25 the 4,920 business jets that use Craig in the
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1 course of -- or did last year, I guess.
2 MR. SEYMOUR: It's the business jets. It's
3 75 percent of the business jets that are
4 included in the FAA's Advisory Circular.
5 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. So am I correct to
6 say, Mr. Seymour -- I'll ask. Is it that -- am
7 I correct to understand that only -- if you take
8 the total number of operations you had in 2006
9 and take that number of 4,920, which represented
10 the business jets utilizing Craig, I think that,
11 if I do my math right, that's between 3 and
12 4 percent of total operations.
13 Are those the primary -- primarily the ones
14 who would benefit from a runway extension?
15 MR. SEYMOUR: That is correct.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: So 3 or 4 percent of the
17 total. Okay.
18 Okay. Thank you.
19 Mr. Chairman, just one or two more.
20 I asked -- Mr. Stewart, if you could come
21 up.
22 (Mr. Stewart approaches the podium.)
23 MR. YARBOROUGH: Now, Mr. Stewart, I asked
24 you in the -- at the Planning Commission meeting
25 why -- in the time line that the Aviation
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1 Authority presented to the Planning Department
2 to be included with the staff report, I asked
3 you why the board action and the resolution that
4 was done in 2001 was not included in the time
5 line. When I asked you that, your response to
6 me was you overlooked that.
7 My question to you is, have you put that
8 now back in, at this time, so it can be a
9 complete and true representation of the actions
10 that took place at that time?
11 MR. STEWART: No, I have not revised it as
12 of this time.
13 MR. YARBOROUGH: Okay. Can I ask why?
14 MR. STEWART: I didn't think you needed for
15 me to revise it.
16 I don't quite understand. Was I -- was the
17 question, should I be updating the
18 presentation?
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: No. My question now is
20 why it was not because at the Planning
21 Commission meeting it was mentioned that it was
22 overlooked, and I just think if we want to give
23 a true and accurate representation as we
24 consider this matter, that all the pertinent
25 information would be included in this material.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: If I can clarify --
2 MR. STEWART: Through the Chair --
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Before you answer, let me
4 understand. What document are you talking
5 about? If I could ask.
6 MR. YARBOROUGH: We're on page 7 of the
7 staff report, Mr. Chairman. And I'm speaking
8 about the resolution that was adopted January 29
9 of '01, and then Mr. Fiorentino's letter in May
10 of '01.
11 But this -- that paragraph is in page 7 out
12 of 20 of our report that we have in our book.
13 It would fall in that part of that time line
14 that we were provided.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I guess I didn't know that
16 we -- that applicants update -- the Planning
17 Department did that, so the Planning
18 Department --
19 MR. YARBOROUGH: No. Mr. Stewart told me
20 that he provided all of this -- the time line to
21 the Planning Department.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: But he gave the
23 information --
24 Well, I'll let you answer.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: That's what we were told
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1 at the Planning Commission meeting, so I --
2 Okay. Never mind the question.
3 It seems to me that we would have been
4 given all the information that would be material
5 in a report that we consider, and for it to be
6 fair and objective it would have included even
7 some things that may not have made the Aviation
8 Authority's position completely favorable, but
9 it would have included everything that had
10 happened throughout the course of the years that
11 this issue had been going on. So I was just
12 wondering if that had been included now.
13 Lastly, Mr. Chairman, I'll go back to what
14 I said when we debated a little bit about the
15 amendments that Mr. Webb had proposed.
16 Really, just on a general note, you know,
17 to do this tonight and to send this over to
18 Tallahassee -- and I guess the process is then
19 they look at it, and then they either send it
20 back or they do what they will with it --
21 there's no guarantee now here forward that there
22 won't be more changes out there, and I just
23 think it's -- really, to be quite honest and to
24 be candid about it, I just think it's a slap in
25 the face.
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1 I said that five months ago in August when
2 the community sat up in the council suite, in
3 the conference room, when this first bubbled up
4 and Mr. Bishop and Mr. Clark and myself were at
5 the conference room table.
6 It's just a slap in the face. And as
7 Senator King well pointed out at the beginning
8 of the discussion tonight, this is just
9 unbelievable that the community is unrested
10 every seven or eight years or every time a new
11 City Council is put in, and they have to come
12 down here and deal with this consternation and
13 this headache because, unlike us, committee
14 members, we know that things change very rapidly
15 in this business of politics that we're in.
16 We understand, as Ms. Lee pointed out, that
17 it can get very emotional. We've seen that in
18 the six months that the new members have been
19 in. It was six months ago, day before
20 yesterday, that we've been here. It feels like
21 an eternity sometimes.
22 But, in all seriousness, the folks out
23 there that rely on the text amendments, the
24 legislations, the ordinances, the resolutions,
25 everything we do, that has a far-reaching and
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1 long-lasting impact, and far-reaching as far as
2 time goes too, in addition to the literal
3 reaches of it. It has a far-reaching impact on
4 their lives and on their communities and on what
5 they expect from their local legislative body,
6 which is the City Council.
7 So it's imperative that we, as their
8 representatives, uphold the trust that they've
9 given us. And I'm not grandstanding. I know
10 it's late. I know we all have our opinions and
11 we all want to do it and leave, but this is too
12 important.
13 I stand nothing to gain personally from
14 this, nor does Mr. Bishop as far as I'm
15 concerned. We don't. We're here fighting for
16 the districts we represent.
17 Somebody told me a few months ago, "Hey,
18 this only affects about 600 people in your
19 district. What are you thinking?" That's not
20 the point. This is not right. And it's been
21 called into question, the trust and integrity of
22 an independent governmental agency of this
23 city. The fact is it's not right. And I can be
24 subjective too, so really we can get into a
25 circular argument about that if you prefer.
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1 But it's just -- I don't sit here and
2 purport to know everything about every subject
3 that we consider. There's just no way to do
4 that. I'm still learning things about this,
5 still. I'm still learning things about the
6 budget, and that was three or four months ago.
7 But the bottom line is, at the end of the
8 day we understand the nature of this environment
9 that we've chosen to run for and be elected to,
10 members.
11 And I know I'm new and there's a lot to
12 learn, but the community was given its word, and
13 the community has been given that word for years
14 that this would not happen. And as Mr. Bishop
15 pointed out, they have made decisions to move
16 into the community, those that weren't there,
17 and to stay there and to grow their families and
18 to have their business places and to go to
19 school and to go to church and whatever else
20 they do out there. They've chosen to do that
21 based on what they were told by their public
22 governmental agencies, and we are the main
23 component of that here at the local level, in
24 addition to the mayor.
25 So I implore you, I implore you, do what is
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1 the best thing. In my opinion, that's to vote
2 against it, as amended as to however, to vote
3 against it in every form and oppose this.
4 It's just -- it's not the right thing to
5 do, and we cannot guarantee to these folks that
6 they're not going to have to be down here again
7 defending against the 5,600-foot runway being
8 extended to a 6,300-foot a few years from now.
9 There is no guarantee we can do on that
10 tonight except to say no, and that is why I'm
11 not accepting of the compromises that were
12 offered. It's just not right for the community,
13 and if --
14 That's it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 I want to go back to a question you raised
17 a minute ago on any residents located in the
18 recently-updated noise impact area.
19 I guess, Mr. Clark, or whoever from the
20 Airport Authority who wants to address that.
21 I don't understand the correlation of that
22 and the extension of the runway. Is it because
23 you're talking about a new area that's going to
24 be in the noise abatement or is it any area that
25 the FAA determines at a later point is noise
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1 abatement?
2 (Mr. Seymour approaches the podium.)
3 MR. SEYMOUR: Can you rephrase the
4 question, please, sir?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. In section A that
6 Councilmember Clark referenced earlier, under
7 what we're going to do, what this text amendment
8 does is, "Any residence located in the most
9 recently updated noise impacted area as defined
10 by the FAA will be eligible for purchase by JAA
11 in accordance with FAA policies and procedures
12 for purchase of property for noise compatibility
13 purposes at fair market value."
14 I interpret that as meaning it gives you
15 eminent domain capability, which I don't -- I
16 mean, I've seen it before in this document and
17 wondered, but --
18 MR. SEYMOUR: Yes. It was not intended to
19 be an eminent domain issue. What we were trying
20 to agree to is that -- if there is a person
21 whose home is in the area that's impacted by the
22 FAA-approved noise contour, the 65 LDN or
23 greater, that, at that point, we could enter
24 into a willing buyer/willing seller process to
25 acquire their home.
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1 If they did not want to be acquired, the
2 FAA offers other remedies which could include
3 soundproofing. In other words, we wanted to say
4 that if you are in the 65 LDN contour, that we
5 would try to address that individual homeowner's
6 issue at the time with an FAA-approved method to
7 do so.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
9 MR. SEYMOUR: But it is not meant to say
10 that, you know, if they're in the 65 LDN
11 contour, we're going to go take their home from
12 them. It would allow -- what we're trying to
13 say is that we would work out a mitigation
14 method that would be approved -- that would be
15 agreed to by the homeowner at that time.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And I appreciate
17 that. I think I'm -- I'll work with the General
18 Counsel's Office to make sure that the wording
19 is correct and as clear as possible and work
20 with the Airport Authority on that.
21 Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it.
22 Councilmember Lee.
23 MS. LEE: I won't -- I'll call the
24 question.
25 MR. SHAD: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second
2 on the question. It's nondebatable.
3 All in favor of calling the question signal
4 by saying aye.
5 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
7 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS: No.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's raise our hands.
9 All in favor of calling the question.
10 MR. CORRIGAN: (Indicating.)
11 MS. JONES: (Indicating.)
12 MS. LEE: (Indicating.)
13 MR. SHAD: (Indicating.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Indicating.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
16 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Indicating.)
17 MR. CLARK: (Indicating.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The question has been
19 called.
20 We are on 2007-1240 as amended.
21 Before I open the ballot -- and this has
22 nothing to do with the debate of the bill at
23 all. I want to thank the committee members for
24 sticking it out with us tonight, I want to thank
25 the public, the Airport Authority, the staff.
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1 What I hoped tonight to accomplish was a
2 very civil, good debate. I think that's all
3 occurred. I appreciate your cooperation.
4 Obviously, some portion of this crowd is
5 going to be disappointed tonight, but I wanted
6 to make sure I told everybody, and I'm sure my
7 fellow committee members share the respect and
8 appreciation for everybody being civil and
9 sticking it out.
10 MS. LEE: Mr. Chairman, I would like to,
11 real quick, commend you because I've been on
12 this council where people in leadership
13 positions don't allow the public to speak,
14 regardless of what position you have taken.
15 And this is the first time since I've been
16 here where I've watched leadership allow the
17 public and committee members to participate at
18 the highest level, regardless of what you're
19 doing. And, to me, that is just the way we
20 ought to do it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I appreciate that, but I
22 think most of the council operates under that
23 way, so I -- thank you for the compliment, but I
24 don't think it's deserved necessarily.
25 Okay. We are going to open the ballot and
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1 record the vote.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MS. LEE: (Votes yea.)
4 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. CLARK: (Votes nay.)
8 MR. CORRIGAN: (Votes nay.)
9 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes nay.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, three nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
13 approved 2007-1240 as amended.
14 I do not see any other business on our
15 agenda.
16 If Legislative Service will print the vote
17 for the committee members, I would appreciate
18 it.
19 We are adjourned. Thank you.
20 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
21 11:35 p.m.)
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 7th day of January, 2008.
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Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203