1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, August 4,
7 2009, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 RAY HOLT, Chair.
WARREN JONES, Vice Chair.
14 REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.
DANIEL DAVIS, Committee Member.
15 JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.
STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.
16 DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
17
ALSO PRESENT:
18
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
19 SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
20
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
21 CHERRY SHAW, Office of General Counsel.
JOEL McEACHIN, Planning and Development Dept.
22 MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
23
- - -
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 August 4, 2009 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: We're going to go ahead and
5 get started with this LUZ meeting. Today is
6 Tuesday, August 4th.
7 And let's go ahead and go around the horn
8 and tell everybody who we are, starting with
9 Mr. Crofts.
10 MR. CROFTS: My name is John Crofts and I'm
11 representing the Planning and Development
12 Department.
13 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
14 Development.
15 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
16 Development.
17 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
18 Development.
19 MS. ELLER: Shannon Eller, General
20 Counsel's Office.
21 MR. BROWN: Reginald Brown, District 10.
22 DR. GAFFNEY: Dr. Gaffney, District 7.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Ray Holt, District 11.
24 MR. JONES: Warren Jones, District 9.
25 MR. JOOST: Stephen Joost, Group 3
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 at-large.
2 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, District 4.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. We're missing
4 one, but we have more than enough to move
5 forward.
6 I do want to take one item out of order
7 tonight. Our good friends over there at Shands
8 requested that they could go to the head of the
9 line and I said we would.
10 So, folks, let's move to page 6, number 16,
11 2009-456.
12 Let's open the public hearing.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, Mack
15 McCuller, 225 Water Street, representing Shands
16
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you here for questions
18 only?
19 MR. McCULLER: That would be fine, unless
20 there's opposition, of course. But if there is
21 no opposition, questions only, yes, sir.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we're going to have a
23 floor amendment, so if you would hang close by.
24 MR. McCULLER: Very good.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And make sure that you're
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 okay with that.
2 Mr. Crofts, could you talk us through
3 that? And if you could include the floor
4 amendment.
5 MR. CROFTS: Be glad to.
6 Mr. Chairman, members of the committee,
7 there are four conditions that we'll start off
8 with and then we'll incorporate the last
9 condition. It dealt with some last minute
10 issues with regard to the proposal.
11 Condition number 1, "The development shall
12 be subject to the original legal description
13 dated April 27, 2009."
14 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
15 to the original written description dated
16 April 27, 2009."
17 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
18 to the original" -- I'm sorry -- "the revised
19 site plan dated July 28, 2009."
20 Condition number 4, "The development shall
21 be subject to the review and approval of the
22 revised Development Services memorandum dated
23 July 28, 2009, and the Transportation Planning
24 Division memorandum dated June 8th, or as
25 otherwise approved by the Planning and
Diane M.
Tropia,
5
1 Development Department."
2 Due to the last minute, condition number 5,
3 I'm going to defer to Dylan Reingold to read
4 that into the record to wrap this amendment up.
5 Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold.
7 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, I'm going to
8 break these down into three separate additional
9 conditions.
10 The first of the additional three is going
11 to be that a fountain-type water aeration device
12 shall be used in retention ponds which front on
13 Duval Road.
14 Second, development shall be consistent
15 with the following architectural common best
16 practices for the
17 Plan, 2009: Sidewalks shall have sufficient
18 width to accommodate pedestrian flow, signage
19 should be compatible with the building's
20 architectural material and composition, and
21 outdoor lighting will be designed to highlight
22 the buildings and enhance the architecture.
23 And the last condition would be that
24 building massing shall be designed to minimize
25 the appearance of a monolithic box through
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 either variations in wall heights, facade
2 articulation, varied roof planes and pitches or
3 building materials.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. McCuller, are you in
5 agreement with all those conditions?
6 MR. McCULLER: We are in agreement with
7 those conditions, yes, sir.
8 One item that we can get to in a moment is
9 the correction of the zoning designation of the
10 property.
11 Dylan or Shannon.
12 MS. ELLER: To the Chair, if it pleases the
13 committee, that could be included as a technical
14 correction to identify the existing zoning prior
15 to it going to PUD as proposed.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: That would be great.
17 All right. Mr. Jones, do you have a
18 question for Mr. McCuller?
19 MR. JONES: (Inaudible.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, you want to do it
21 outside the public hearing?
22 MR. JONES: (Inaudible.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. With
24 that, we will close the public hearing.
25 And now would be the time to declare your
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 ex-parte.
2 (Mr. Davis enters the proceedings.)
3 MR. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 I had a discussion this last week with
5 Mr. McCuller about this rezoning. We talked
6 about the current zoning and the proposed
7 zoning, and that was it.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else?
10 Okay. Mr. Gaffney, then Mr. Redman.
11 DR. GAFFNEY: Yes, thank you.
12 Mr. Chairman, yes, I wish to declare
13 ex-parte. I had a meeting with the client last
14 week.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that it?
16 DR. GAFFNEY: Yes. We just discussed the
17 issues surrounding the zoning.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
19 Mr. Redman.
20 MR. REDMAN: Yes. I need to declare
21 ex-parte. I also had a discussion last week
22 with the party involved.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. And I would
25 declare ex-parte. I met today at 4:00 p.m. in
Diane M.
Tropia,
8
1 my office with Mr. McCuller and Ms. Thompson,
2 and we discussed some of the issues surrounding
3 this, including the floor amendment which has
4 just been brought out.
5 And I want to publicly thank you guys for
6 working with me on that. We wanted to make sure
7 that this development not only is going to be --
8 make transportation flow well, but we also
9 wanted to make sure it's aesthetically
10 pleasing. It's going to be a very important
11 intersection, and I look forward to working with
12 you guys in the future. It's been a pleasure.
13 Mr. Davis.
14 MR. DAVIS: I'd like to declare ex-parte
15 communications as well and ask General Counsel,
16 if we declare now, we don't have to declare
17 Tuesday night, correct?
18 MS. ELLER: That is correct.
19 MR. DAVIS: Thank you.
20 MR. JOOST: Point of order, if I've
21 declared before, I don't have to declare now?
22 MS. ELLER: (Nods head.)
23 MR. JOOST: Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm still -- I still haven't
25 had a movement.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. DAVIS: Motion --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I need a motion on the
3 amendment.
4 MR. DAVIS: Move the amendment.
5 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I have a motion
7 and second on the amendment.
8 All in favor signify by saying aye.
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 MR. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
13 MR. DAVIS: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second.
15 Mr. Davis is no longer on the queue, so
16 please open the ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
21 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 the vote.
2 (Committee ballot closed.)
3 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. With that, we
5 have approved -456.
6 Now let's go back to the beginning.
7 MR. McCULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
9 Go back to the beginning of our agenda.
10 Start with item number 1, 2008-541. We'll
11 open that public hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
13 public hearing.
14 Are we closing that?
15 MS. ELLER: Correct.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Are we moving the
17 bill? I don't show that on my agenda.
18 MS. ELLER: To the Chair, our
19 recommendation was to close the public hearing,
20 and the item has been requested to be deferred
21 until December. And by closing the public
22 hearing, it will prompt us to have to
23 readvertise when it's ultimately taken up. And
24 that way, with the delay, we won't erroneously
25 take it up without everybody being aware.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Excellent.
2 I'm sorry. That's my fault. I had that
3 note on another agenda.
4 So we'll close the public hearing and defer
5 that item, as well as its companion -542.
6 2009-91.
7 Do I need to open the public hearing on --
8 MS. ELLER: (Nods head.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Open. Open the public
10 hearing on -542.
11 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
12 hearing and defer that item as well.
13 2009-91. We'll open the public hearing.
14 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
15 public hearing and take no further action.
16 2009-252 is going to be deferred, as well
17 as -254.
18 Item number 6, -287, we'll open that public
19 hearing.
20 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
21 to 9/1, take no further action.
22 2009-288, we'll open that public hearing,
23 continue to 9/1, take no further action.
24 2009-326, we'll open that public hearing.
25 We do have a speaker, a couple of them.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 We'll start with Ms. Judy Butler.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, ma'am.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. My name is --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Could you give us your name
6 and address, please.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Judy Butler, 4086
8 Green
9 THE CHAIRMAN: You can go ahead.
10 MS. BUTLER: Okay. And I have read the
11 revised conditions of the ordinance, and I do
12 support it because I'm the property owner.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
14 MS. BUTLER: Uh-huh.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have Janet
16
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, that's me.
19 My name is Janet Butler. Would you like my
20 address?
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, please.
22 MS. BUTLER:
23 Number 1104, and that's in
24 And I am going to be the future homeowner
25 on the property. And I have gone over these
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 conditions for the ordinance, and I do support
2 the revised conditions.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
4 MS. BUTLER: Is that it?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
6 MS. BUTLER: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: If that's all you have.
8 Mark Lamoureux. Is that how you say that?
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Did I come even close?
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mark Lamoureux, 12459
14 I would like to just restate that I am for
15 the petition only if the landscape buffer that
16 is at the rear of the petitioner's yard and at
17 the rear of my yard -- it's a common rear
18 yard -- that that landscaping stays. If the
19 landscaping stays or the trees that are there
20 stay, then I support the petition.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
22 Seeing no questions and no other cards, we
23 will close that public hearing.
24 And now would be the time for anybody to
25 declare ex-parte.
Diane M.
Tropia,
14
1 And I need someone to move the amendment to
2 either grant or deny.
3 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment to grant the
4 waiver.
5 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have a motion
7 and second on the amendment to grant the waiver,
8 and we have -- Mr. Joost wants to speak first.
9 MR. JOOST: Yeah.
10 Just to the Planning Department, what
11 exactly does the waiver do and what are the
12 conditions? What is your position regarding
13 this waiver, through the Chair.
14 Thank you.
15 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, through the
16 Chair to Mr. Joost, as you remember, this was
17 passed at a recent LUZ meeting. And subsequent
18 to that meeting -- and there were three
19 conditions in that original -- that original
20 waiver that went with that bill.
21 The last condition had to do with the
22 buffer. And the buffer that we came to an
23 agreement on, a consensus on, we kind of pulled
24 it out of the air, so to speak. It was a
25 50-foot buffer, and kind of unilateral, somewhat
Diane M.
Tropia,
15
1 arbitrary. We looked -- tried to do the best we
2 could. I, in fact, went out back to the site
3 and looked at it, met with the applicants and
4 met with the opposition, walked the site.
5 And basically -- and we said on the record
6 at that time we were in support of the condition
7 or in support of the waiver basically with the
8 conditions, and the last condition is the one
9 that we basically revised that was not on the
10 record before.
11 And rather than say an arbitrary 50 feet,
12 we're basically saying the third condition, that
13 the existing trees and buffer along the northern
14 and western portions of the subject property --
15 and those are adjacent to Mr. Lamoureux's
16 property -- shall be maintained in an
17 undisturbed natural state.
18 And I think that meets the objective. It
19 doesn't come up -- the 50 foot seemed to come up
20 into the yard to some degree, encroaching into
21 the yard where the respective house is going to
22 be built. What this does, this revised
23 condition is basically to maintain that existing
24 buffer but yet gives some flexibility to the
25 property owner and the builder of the house.
Diane M.
Tropia,
16
1 MR. JOOST: Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
3 Mr. Jones.
4 MR. JONES: Through the Chair to
5 Mr. Crofts, I think that addresses the second
6 speaker -- third speaker's concern, but I'm just
7 wondering, how do we enforce that? What if they
8 build a house and next year they take down that
9 buffer? They can't unbuild the house.
10 MR. CROFTS: Any exception or any PUD or
11 any zoning would be something that we would --
12 would be handled through our code enforcement
13 people. And they not only do zoning, but they
14 do property inspection as well. It will be a
15 part of the plan. As far as the building
16 permit, it will be looked at in that particular
17 standpoint, but it will also be enforced by the
18 code enforcement people through that process.
19 And if I don't have any idea what kind of
20 eye that Mr. Lamoureux has as an adjacent
21 neighbor, I think we'll have sufficient amount
22 of enforcement from the public side as well.
23 MR. JONES: And they would -- if they did
24 find that they removed that natural buffer, then
25 it would go before the code compliance board?
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. CROFTS: That's correct, it would go
2 through a code compliance board.
3 MR. JONES: Okay. Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Anyone else?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I just wanted to ask
7 Mr. Lamoureux, is that buffer the one that -- is
8 that satisfactory to you, the buffer that's been
9 discussed?
10 MR. LAMOUREUX: Yes.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
12 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I only
13 reread or read the third condition. If you will
14 allow me, I'll read the first two conditions
15 again for the record.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 MR. CROFTS: Condition number 1, "There
18 shall be no more than two dwelling units on the
19 combined subject property of 6.5 acres."
20 Number 2, "The property address and
21 directions shall be clearly posted from the
22 right-of-way at Green
23 notify emergency responders of the property
24 location."
25 And the third amendment for the record
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 again is, "The existing trees and buffer along
2 the northern and western portions of the subject
3 property shall be maintained in an undisturbed
4 natural state."
5 Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Well, if we have
7 no other speakers, we have a motion and second
8 on the amendment to grant the waiver.
9 All in favor signify by saying aye.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended to
14 grant the waiver.
15 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second
17 to move the bill to grant the waiver.
18 Please open the ballot.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
23 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
3 the vote.
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
7 approved 2009-326 as amended to grant the
8 waiver.
9 2009-350, we'll open that public hearing
10 and take no further action until September 1st.
11 2009-399.
12 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: We need to open the public
14 hearing.
15 And Ms. Eller corrected me. Now would be
16 the time to give your ex-parte if you have any.
17 Do you have any speakers?
18 MS. STEPHENS: No.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: No speakers on that. We'll
20 close the public hearing.
21 Now we can move the bill.
22 I have a motion from Mr. Joost --
23 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: -- and a second.
25 Mr. Joost.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. JOOST: Just to the Planning
2 Department. When we designate something a
3 landmark, in laymen's terms, what are the
4 consequences of that?
5 MR. McEACHIN: (Inaudible.)
6 MR. JOOST: I mean, say later on somebody
7 wanted to come in on that same site and, you
8 know, build an office tower, what happens?
9 MR. McEACHIN: Joel McEachin, Planning and
10 Department, back here in the back.
11 When something becomes a landmark -- and
12 this is being initiated by the property owner --
13 there are certain design standards that have to
14 be met when the person wants to do exterior
15 work, and this designation goes with the
16 property when it's sold.
17 If somebody wanted later to come back in
18 and -- how would I say -- remove a building to
19 build a new building, they would actually submit
20 a -- what we call a certificate of
21 appropriateness to the commission to demolish
22 the building. If the commission denies it,
23 ultimately it will go to City Council as an
24 appeal of the commission's decision.
25 MR. JOOST: Okay. So this is -- this is
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 different than saying designating it an
2 historical site?
3 MR. McEACHIN: It's the same process, but
4 there is certain -- certain -- how would I say
5 it -- due processes involved in doing that.
6 But, yes, it's the same basic process when
7 we talk about something being historically
8 designated.
9 MR. JOOST: And I guess one last question
10 to -- why are we -- why are we designating this
11 a landmark? Who requested that?
12 MR. McEACHIN: The property owner requested
13 it.
14 The only -- only entities that can sponsor
15 landmark designation is the Preservation
16 Commission, the property owner, any member of
17 the City Council, or the mayor.
18 MR. JOOST: All right.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Does that satisfy you,
20 Mr. Joost? You're okay?
21 MR. JOOST: Yes.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Davis.
23 MR. DAVIS: So I take it, the -- this is
24 -399, correct?
25 MR. JOOST: Yes.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MR. DAVIS: Okay. So I take it that the
2 owner -- I get -- this is designated by -- where
3 is Mr. McEachin?
4 Okay. I take it that the -- are there ways
5 that something could be designated a landmark
6 without an owner knowing about it?
7 MR. McEACHIN: The ultimate -- it is
8 possible that the commission could sponsor a
9 landmark designation over owner objection, but
10 ultimately it would be the decision of the City
11 Council as to whether to designate it or not.
12 It's not common that it has even happened. It
13 has happened on occasion, but it's very
14 uncommon.
15 MR. DAVIS: Okay. Was anybody in Rules?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't think so.
17 MR. DAVIS: No?
18 MR. McEACHIN: I'm sorry. What was that?
19 MR. DAVIS: I'd just like to hear, were you
20 in Rules?
21 MR. McEACHIN: Yes.
22 MR. DAVIS: Can you explain what
23 Mr. Bishop's -- he was the one that voted
24 against this.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: He abstained.
Diane M. Tropia,
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1 MR. DAVIS: Oh, abstention.
2 MS. SHAW: Yeah, he abstained.
3 MR. DAVIS: All right.
4 MS. SHAW: He had ownership.
5 MR. DAVIS: Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
7 Mr. Jones.
8 MR. JONES: Through the Chair to
9 Mr. McEachin, what's the advantage in having it
10 designated a landmark? Are there some grants
11 available?
12 MR. McEACHIN: In the case of private
13 ownership, the only thing that would be
14 available would be a historic preservation
15 property tax exemption, which basically is a
16 value of the investments which made it the
17 property. And, again, the property appraiser
18 determines that value, would not be added to the
19 assessment as it relates to the part of the
20 taxes that go to the City of
21 does not impact school board taxes.
22 MR. JONES: Well, that's for a ten-year
23 period?
24 MR. McEACHIN: That's for a ten-year
25 period, that's correct.
Diane M.
Tropia,
24
1 MR. JONES: But I thought that was only for
2 historic. That's for landmark also?
3 MR. McEACHIN: It is. It is -- as a matter
4 of fact, that's only available for historic
5 properties that have been so designated by the
6 City of
7 MR. JONES: Right.
8 MR. McEACHIN: Basically it's a trade-off.
9 If you're giving up some control of your
10 property to take advantage of some -- you're
11 basically getting an incentive to do so, just
12 one incentive.
13 MR. JONES: Yeah, but this is a landmark.
14 MR. McEACHIN: It's the same thing. It has
15 to be either a local landmark or a contributing
16 property in the local historic district.
17 MR. JONES: By definition, what constitutes
18 a landmark?
19 MR. McEACHIN: A landmark has to meet a
20 minimum of two of seven criteria unless there's
21 owner objection. If there's owner objection,
22 the commission has to find that it meets four of
23 seven. It's a much higher standard.
24 This is being initiated by the owner, and
25 this building is meeting five of seven, which is
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
25
1 highly unusual to meet that many criteria for
2 landmark designation, so this is a very
3 important building.
4 MR. JONES: And you don't have to -- only
5 have to meet two of them?
6 MR. McEACHIN: You only have to meet two.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Joost.
8 MR. JOOST: Could you just name what those
9 criteria are?
10 MR. McEACHIN: One of them is, of course,
11 association with -- and I'll try to be really
12 concise about it because it's somewhat
13 difficult.
14 One of them is its value, significant
15 amount of the cultural, historic,
16 architectural -- archaeological heritage of the
17 city, state, or nation. Of course, this is the
18 second official building that's owned by the
19 City of Jacksonville as a public library. Of
20 course, the first one was across the street.
21 And the report goes into great detail how
22 this sort of fits into that, as well as how this
23 building fit into the revitalization of downtown
24 during the late '50s and the early '60s.
25 Number 4, association with a master
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
26
1 builder, designer, or architect. And, of
2 course, that's Taylor Hardwick. He is one of
3 the second generation of architects that were
4 active in Jacksonville after World War II, did
5 some very progressive work, and this is probably
6 his most important design.
7 And that leads into number 5 and 6, the
8 quality of the architecture. And the building
9 is a prime example of a combination of
10 architectural style and artistic endeavors and
11 combined with functionality, and so that sort of
12 defines number 5 and 6.
13 And suitability for preservation,
14 restoration, because the building is basically
15 sound.
16 So it meets five of seven, and the
17 commission agreed to that, that assessment.
18 MR. JOOST: Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Joost.
20 I had a question. Mr. McEachin, I think
21 you'd be the best to answer it.
22 One, how much of a savings is this -- how
23 much of an opportunity cost do we have here as a
24 City? What is the reduction in taxable value?
25 How much are we losing by doing this in taxes?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. McEACHIN: I think the -- and, again, I
2 believe the City Council auditor's office
3 figures that out, or they used to, based on
4 current millage rates and so forth. It just
5 depends on how much they invest and how much the
6 property appraiser appraises those investments.
7 So, you know, if they invest 100,000, that
8 could be a 100,000 investment, but the property
9 appraiser could say, "No, that's only worth
10 85,000." So it's really in his hands as to how
11 much is actually going to be assessed.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. But whatever they
13 invest is basically taken off of the tax -- off
14 of their tax bill?
15 MR. McEACHIN: It's just not added to your
16 tax bill. Basically, they just add two property
17 appraiser record cards, one with it on and one
18 with it not on, and that's your total tax bill.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. My other question is,
20 is there a certain amount of time that they have
21 to do that work within?
22 MR. McEACHIN: A two-year -- they got a
23 two-year window.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
25 Mr. McEachin.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Any other discussion?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. If not, I need a
4 motion to move the bill.
5 DR. GAFFNEY: Move the bill.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: And a second.
7 MR. BROWN: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
9 Okay. Open the ballot.
10 (Committee ballot opened.)
11 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
14 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
19 the vote.
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
23 approved -399.
24 Number 11, 2009-401. We'll open the public
25 hearing.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 We have one speaker, Danny Ferreira.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Welcome, Mr. Ferreira.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
5 Danny Ferreira, 14838 Edwards Creek Road in
6 Jacksonville here, 32226.
7 I have continuously opposed this ordinance
8 change. It came in a forum in 2005. The
9 ordinance itself was established by the people
10 of Jacksonville, and it reads and protects the
11 use of public signs along our public
12 right-of-way.
13 They're trying to impose a change in the
14 ordinance, allowing the signage for advertisers
15 in the transit stations along our city roads,
16 and I'm sure especially in our downtown areas as
17 well as our communities.
18 I think the ordinance in itself should
19 remain as it is, as established by the people
20 for the people to establish Jacksonville as a
21 visually-correct city, to have places of comfort
22 for people to get on and off bus systems and
23 transit stations without it being cluttered with
24 signs.
25 I know so much has been attempted and will
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
30
1 continually be attempted by the business of the
2 sign companies through lawyers and efforts to
3 override community preservation, so I'm just
4 trying to encourage that this ordinance change
5 not be put into effect. And understanding that
6 it was established by the people, and it's a
7 good ordinance and it should remain as it was
8 worded at the time it was agreed on by the
9 majority of the people here in this city.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ferreira.
12 Mr. Jones has a question for you.
13 MR. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14 Through the Chair, to Mr. Ferreira. I
15 appreciate your comments. I just wanted to --
16 you are opposed to signage in any way, shape, or
17 form on the bus shelters? Because it's --
18 because -- the reason I ask is because we've
19 been told legally that this does not do any harm
20 to the existing sign ordinance, and that's why
21 we withdrew the earlier bill back in February.
22 MR. FERREIRA: I know in 2005 that
23 ordinance change was similar to this. It was
24 denied by Planning, and the effort to hold off
25 the kind of attorney use in the court systems to
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
31
1 impose things by the business of the sign
2 company has been pushed heavily by this
3 administration since 2005. And I think it's an
4 incompatible kind of business arrangement that
5 our government should be affording public
6 right-of-way to sign companies, and we so stated
7 that in our sign ordinances that we established
8 back in the '80s. As we know, we still have
9 billboards. We're not supposed to have
10 billboards in this city.
11 And I know that as long as there's a dollar
12 business can spend, they will employ attorneys
13 to try to get a favorable court ruling over
14 community's public right-of-ways for signage.
15 This is a major tax write-off, a business
16 write-off.
17 MR. JONES: I mean, that's -- my question
18 is, do you feel that -- because we've been told
19 by our General Counsel's Office -- and we waited
20 on the Los Angeles lawsuit that was settled in
21 circuit court -- that this would not do any
22 harm, legal harm to our existing sign
23 ordinance. Doesn't mean they can't sue us, but
24 we do not feel that it would do any additional
25 harm.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
32
1 And so I'm asking you, are you aware of an
2 opinion that's different from what we
3 understand?
4 MR. FERREIRA: Well, I heard an attorney
5 who had wrote this sign bill back in the '80s --
6 MR. JONES: Bill Brinton?
7 MR. FERREIRA: Mr. Brinton's comment that
8 there was no absolute ruling that would allow
9 them to impose signs on our city, on our public
10 right-of-ways, that that was not a legal
11 standing as of yet and should never be that I
12 can see.
13 A community standard should be set by the
14 people, and I think it was. And the ordinance
15 was so written as it was with the billboards.
16 And we spent millions. We have employed
17 attorneys to fight and decide that we were going
18 to grandfather off all these billboards, and
19 we've still got them, you know, advertising --
20 MR. JONES: Was some --
21 MR. FERREIRA: -- love shops and all
22 kinds --
23 MR. JONES: I'll be glad -- I'll get your
24 number and talk. I don't want to debate it
25 here, but I'll be glad to talk with you about it
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
33
1 because we're -- it is working through the
2 system and we are waiting on a recommendation
3 from the Planning Department and the Planning
4 Commission before we take it up.
5 MR. FERREIRA: It's not to change the
6 ordinance; it's to protect our public
7 right-of-ways.
8 MR. JONES: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ferreira.
10 All right. Seeing no other speakers, we'll
11 continue that public hearing and take no further
12 action.
13 2009-402 is deferred for tonight.
14 2009-429, we'll open that public hearing,
15 and we have two speakers.
16 Mr. John Peavy.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming down.
19 Could you give your name and address for
20 the record.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: John Peavy, 1755
22 Cedar Bay Road, Jacksonville.
23 I'm in support of the bill -429 because a
24 couple of months ago a surprise happened on our
25 community street, on Cedar Bay Road, which we
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
34
1 thought was residential, and all of a sudden we
2 now have a light industrial building going up in
3 our community.
4 I understand this bill -429 will make sure
5 that no surprises come to the community, making
6 sure that it is advertised, it is brought before
7 the council and voted on before any changes to a
8 zoning occurs.
9 The zoning in question came about through
10 an administrative change and sort of shocked the
11 neighborhood when we found out we now have a
12 warehouse sitting in our neighborhood.
13 I hope you support this and this action is
14 done by the full council and becomes law.
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
17 No questions.
18 Mr. Conrad Markle.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Conrad Markle. I have
21 property at 848, -58, -60, and 853 Cedar Bay
22 Road, at the other end of this section of the
23 block with a section of lots that are being
24 rezoned IL without the knowledge of the people
25 on the road.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I was going to give just a -- I know I
2 don't have but a couple minutes. I want to give
3 a little bit of a brief history.
4 This has been -- like the fellow before me
5 said, this has been quite a shock to the people
6 on the road. I realize now and I probably knew
7 more about what was getting ready to happen than
8 anybody and didn't know what I was looking at.
9 But Barbara Broward is going to be speaking
10 in a little bit, and her husband is a member --
11 the last member of the Broward family going back
12 to 1803 on those lands out there. They had the
13 original Spanish land grant. He's the last
14 Broward left on Cedar Bay Road, Broward River,
15 in which this -- this road -- we -- my father
16 bought the lots where our house was next to this
17 situation in 1946, and these are all subdivided
18 into half-acre rural residential lots at that
19 time. It was mostly people with, like, backyard
20 mini farms and things like that in the old
21 county.
22 These three lots that were mysteriously
23 changed by the scrivener's error or the stroke
24 of a pen by Ms. Fewell apparently in 2001 to
25 nobody's knowledge should not have happened the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
36
1 way it was able to happen without any
2 notification at all to the people in the area.
3 But I've realized that after she left and Mike
4 Saylor took over under Mr. Peyton's
5 administration, he ended up very frustrated
6 because there were things like this turning up
7 all over the county where he was having to put
8 out fires, mostly around Cecil Field.
9 But the idea was to maximum revenue return
10 which, of course, has been the foundation of the
11 Delaney and Peyton administration not to
12 increase the millage and then figure out ways to
13 increase the -- what I call the back door tax by
14 these processes.
15 But at any rate, this -- under the 2010
16 Comprehensive Plan that was put through in the
17 1980s, it was emphasized -- everybody out
18 there -- my parents were more involved then.
19 They were still living -- that you needed to
20 come forward if you wanted any changes on this
21 road, which was all residential, or forever hold
22 your peace because there was not going to be any
23 changing it without weeping and wailing and
24 gnashing of teeth and lots of expense.
25 So three years ago, I happened to be -- I
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1 happened to have a conference with the then
2 councilperson out there, Mr. Warren Alvarez,
3 about some other problems I was having with the
4 code -- department of Code Enforcement and my
5 father's property. And he drives up and he
6 looks around and goes, "I thought we changed the
7 zoning on all of this. I didn't know there was
8 any residential property still here." That was
9 early 2007.
10 And I said, "Well, if you did, nobody was
11 notified." And he just -- when I said "nobody
12 was notified," he changed the subject, but -- at
13 any rate, the building has already been
14 permitted. I checked last night. The building
15 permit is there. It was turned loose two weeks
16 ago. $716,000 building, plus the value of these
17 lots. You're going to recoup at least $2,300
18 more in taxes by letting it go like this --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, your time is up.
20 MR. MARKLE: -- and letting us have our
21 houses that would have been there. With the
22 homestead exemptions, it would have been those
23 three lots.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Markle, your time is
25 up.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Thank you.
2 MR. MARKLE: Okay. I just wanted to
3 emphasize this: I think it would pay all of you
4 to pay heed what's in here about the lack of
5 public trust in this town because of things --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: You can submit that for the
7 record, but your time is up.
8 Thank you.
9 All right. Seeing no further speakers, we
10 will continue that public hearing and take no
11 further action.
12 And this brings us to 2009-444.
13 Now, we have decided before this that we
14 would have one spokesman for each side. I've
15 got two cards up here for the support of -444,
16 Ms. Broward and Mr. Barker. If you guys wanted
17 to have one person -- I had said that I would
18 allow you ten minutes because I'm allowing --
19 I'm sorry, Mr. Barker is the other side. Okay.
20 I'm sorry. I looked at your --
21 Okay. So let's start with Mr. Barker, if
22 you'd come up.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 Earl Barker, 334 East Duval Street. I
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
39
1 represent --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. Just a second.
3 Do we have something that would allow him
4 to put his -- do we have an easel?
5 Can you hold his time, please.
6 Are they going to have to go quite a ways
7 to get that?
8 MR. BARKER: I can hold it.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Go ahead.
10 MR. BARKER: Earl Barker, 334 East Duval
11 Street, representing Imeson International
12 Industrial Park, Incorporated.
13 I represent the owner which -- who objects
14 to this rezoning.
15 First of all, as a technical matter, I have
16 to say that the legal description attached to
17 this ordinance is totally unintelligible and I
18 couldn't figure it out. I was glad to get the
19 drawing, but I can't make the drawing match the
20 description.
21 The industrial zoning of this piece of
22 property was established in 1968, along with the
23 industrial zoning of all of Imeson International
24 Industrial Park. This park superimposes
25 Dr. Gaffney's district and Mr. Holt's district.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 The division between those districts is
2 approximately on Canada Drive.
3 In 1968, the property was rezoned
4 industrial B and industrial A. The heavy
5 industrial is in the center of the park. The
6 industrial B was established as a buffer for the
7 separation of the heavy industrial and the
8 residential area.
9 The zoning went all the way to Cedar Bay
10 Road, and that is specifically contained within
11 the ordinance -- or within the rezoning request
12 in 1968.
13 There were discussions about a master
14 plan. The master plan was approved. And I have
15 to report to you, proudly, that the conditions
16 of the master plan are being fulfilled. One of
17 the issues was that there be sufficient roads
18 established within the park to provide for
19 the -- for the service of the park. The --
20 everybody is concerned that no access go out to
21 Cedar Bay Road from Imeson.
22 And if you look at this map and you look at
23 the individual maps that are on your desks, you
24 will see that that is the case, there are no
25 roads from this park that go on Cedar Bay Road.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
41
1 Secondly, the parcels that do abut
2 Cedar Bay Road at this point have been designed
3 and are constructed because this aerial was
4 taken in March. They now have been -- the
5 detention/retention ponds have been constructed
6 there and they make it impractical at the very
7 best, uneconomical, and nobody wants to go out
8 on to Cedar Bay Road from this property, and
9 that's one reason they were put there. They
10 were put there as buffers.
11 The industrial zoning of those parcels was
12 not mistaken. It was clearly done by the zoning
13 board with the support and recommendation of the
14 Mayor, Hans Tanzler, and Ted Grissett, the
15 president of the council at the time. And it
16 was done to induce the sale of this property to
17 my client. And now 40 years later, we are
18 revisiting that issue.
19 They bought it for millions of dollars.
20 They've developed it with millions of dollars,
21 and I -- we are proud to report to you and to
22 the council that that zoning now is reaching the
23 northeast area of the park where Mr. Markle is.
24 And the -- all of this development
25 (indicating) has occurred, the most recent
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1 building being the Samsonite building in the
2 front of the park, which is an
3 817,000-square-foot property within which
4 Samsonite is consolidating all of their national
5 distribution activities for the United States.
6 I looked at the 1985 and the 1990 land use
7 maps in the large version of those maps because
8 we wanted to make sure that the industrial land
9 use overlay was present. When I looked at them,
10 it was there. I'm shocked to hear that the
11 construction now is that it was not there
12 because it was there at that time. I don't know
13 how that got changed.
14 But I do know that the industrial zoning of
15 this property has existing for at least
16 40 years. It induced my client to purchase the
17 property and to develop it. And, frankly, our
18 client has honored all of their undertakings and
19 agreements with regard to this development.
20 And we would respectfully request that the
21 City Council continue to honor its commitment
22 and leave this zoning the way it was established
23 and the way it induced our client to purchase.
24 I'm available for questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
43
1 Any questions for Mr. Barker?
2 I have --
3 Go ahead, Mr. Jones.
4 MR. JONES: Thank you.
5 I just want to make sure I'm clear,
6 Mr. Barker. You said your client has owned this
7 property since 1968?
8 MR. BARKER: No. The client purchased the
9 property in 1971.
10 MR. JONES: Okay. After --
11 MR. BARKER: This zoning was accomplished
12 in 1968 as part of the sale process.
13 There's a chronology in a letter that I
14 sent to the chairman and to the secretary that
15 describes that chronology in exquisite detail.
16 The zoning was before the purchase.
17 MR. JONES: Okay. So when he acquired it,
18 it was already zoned as it is today?
19 MR. BARKER: Yes, sir.
20 MR. JONES: Okay. And he has been in the
21 process of developing this property since that
22 time?
23 MR. BARKER: Yes, sir.
24 MR. JONES: And all the subsequent land use
25 plans that we've approved has kept this in the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 same category?
2 MR. BARKER: The land use plans that I
3 reviewed kept it in the industrial category. I
4 had a meeting with Mr. Crofts, who has advised
5 me that his construction of those drawings is
6 that this strip is an LDR classification. We
7 haven't seen the large scale maps that were
8 present in 1985 and 1990 that I reviewed. There
9 was a small map that you, frankly, can't see
10 anything on.
11 But the undertaking in 1968, regardless of
12 those maps, is that this is industrial
13 property.
14 MR. JONES: And the current zoning is still
15 industrial?
16 MR. BARKER: Yes, sir.
17 The current zoning is IL, which is the
18 current incarnation of that light industrial
19 zoning that -- I think it was industrial A at
20 the time.
21 MR. JONES: Okay. But the land use on part
22 of this has been changed to residential?
23 MR. BARKER: That's what Mr. Crofts has
24 advised me.
25 MR. JONES: Okay.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. BARKER: I have not -- and, of course,
2 I consider what he says to be reliable, but I
3 also know what I looked at on the maps, and I
4 haven't seen those maps again yet. The -- I do
5 know that the zoning in 1968 was the light
6 industrial zoning, and that was the commitment
7 between parties when this property was
8 purchased.
9 MR. JONES: All right. Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Jones.
11 Mr. Barker, if you could hang close.
12 MR. BARKER: I will. Thank you, sir.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: I have failed to bring my
14 folks --
15 We need to give our ex-parte at this point
16 if you had any ex-parte communications.
17 Okay. Well, I have spoke with Mr. Barker
18 earlier today, about 4:45, about this issue,
19 discussing the history of the rezoning.
20 And I'm going to give the other side
21 ten minutes as well, Ms. Broward. And then
22 we're going to go to Mr. Crofts after the public
23 hearing.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Broward, you have
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
46
1 ten minutes.
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you very much.
3 My name is Barbara Broward. I live at 717
4 Cedar Bay Road, and there are a number of
5 residents who came, but I will be speaking for
6 them. And I would like them to please stand. I
7 appreciate it, that they did take the time to
8 come down here.
9 In the meantime, I would like to hand this
10 out.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you want to have
12 everybody stand up?
13 MS. BROWARD: Could they stand? I'm sorry.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Comply.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I thought that's what you
16 said.
17 MS. BROWARD: I'm sorry.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. There. Now
19 everybody is --
20 MS. BROWARD: And they took the time to
21 come down here, and so I did want them
22 recognized, but I will be speaking.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, folks.
24 MS. BROWARD: This is a long story and I'm
25 going to get right to it.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
47
1 This was a zoning that took place in 1968.
2 Cedar Bay Road has been a residential community
3 since after -- just after World War II when it
4 started being developed.
5 In 1968, what happened was the airport was
6 sold to Imeson Industrial Park. In '71, I'm
7 sorry. But the park -- the airport was up for
8 sale. And in 1968, what happened was the
9 residents realized that it was no longer going
10 to be an airport and they -- it was going to be
11 sold to an industrial park area, and they were
12 very concerned about their established
13 residential community.
14 So they passed a resolution in 1968 and
15 stated that there would be commercial
16 development up to parts of Cedar Bay Road, A and
17 B, as Mr. Barker stated, but there would be no
18 roads leading into Cedar Bay Road. All roads
19 would be residential on Cedar Bay Road and all
20 industrial roads would go internal into the
21 industrial park.
22 What happened to us was in 1986 the
23 industrial park, along with the Bostwick Trust,
24 tried to jump Cedar Bay Road into our
25 residential community and develop warehousing
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 for rezoning -- rezoning for warehousing on a
2 42-acre site on our waterfront community.
3 Our councilman, along with the entirety of
4 Cedar Bay Road, was very much opposed to this.
5 I have the documentation that not only was Webb
6 International represented, but also the Bostwick
7 Trust was represented with Val Bostwick and his
8 father and his uncle. So they did know about
9 this meeting. They were there and they spoke.
10 This meeting took place and it was -- a
11 buffer zone was established because they
12 realized that in 1986 the industrial park along
13 with Bostwick was trying to intrude into our
14 residential community.
15 On this piece of paper of this buffer zone
16 that went to the Planning Department, it says
17 to -- from Councilman -- our then councilman,
18 Joe Forshee, "I would appreciate you checking
19 over to make sure the proper buffer zones are
20 included in the current zoning of this
21 property. Also, another question has surfaced.
22 Shouldn't this buffer apply to all the property
23 down Cedar Bay Road as well as the Imeson
24 property that came to the edge of Cedar Bay
25 Road?"
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 So what was established in 1986 was a
2 buffer zone from the edge of Cedar Bay Road back
3 200 feet, all along Cedar Bay Road, from
4 Main Street to the end of Cedar Bay Road. It
5 was included in the maps, in the atlas, it was
6 not changed from an industrial zoning for the
7 industrial park, but the buffer zone put it back
8 200 feet so that we would not be having to incur
9 an industrial-type development come into our
10 road nor would we be having any roads from the
11 industrial park. We wanted to make sure that
12 this did not happen.
13 The maps show very clearly that I handed in
14 which pieces of property we're discussing. It
15 showed the Bostwick property as well as the
16 Imeson Industrial Park property.
17 What happened to us next was, I was going
18 out to the post office one day and I noticed a
19 lady was -- had some maps on a piece of property
20 across the street from me. And I stopped and
21 asked her what was going on, and she said that a
22 warehouse was being developed. And I said, No,
23 ma'am. It has to be 200 feet back.
24 She says, Not only is it a warehouse and
25 this property has been sold as industrial
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 property without any public notice, but it was
2 going to access Cedar Bay Road. Nobody knew
3 anything about this. This was a mistake zoning,
4 evidently, at some point.
5 It was rezoned -- this 200-foot buffer was
6 rezoned, swallowed up into the industrial park
7 and we're sitting there looking at a zoning that
8 nobody knew anything about in total violation of
9 what took place in 1968, had never been done
10 otherwise, and also in complete violation of
11 what took place in 1986. The buffer zone was
12 somehow mysteriously removed.
13 We do have a bill going through in -429
14 that someone spoke on earlier that will keep
15 this from happening to some other souls so they
16 do not have to walk the path that we're having
17 to walk today.
18 The bill that this -- this bill will change
19 back this mistake zoning to residential
20 single-family. Residential single-family can be
21 buffered. A buffer can also be a retention
22 pond, which Imeson Industrial Park already has.
23 They meet the buffer zone requirement. It would
24 not encroach onto their industrial development
25 whatsoever. All it's going to do is to ensure
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
51
1 us that this buffer remain intact and restored
2 back to what it was originally.
3 I would appreciate it if you would vote for
4 this bill. It is a very difficult situation
5 that we residents are going through today. It
6 is something that was wrongly done by wrong
7 persons for wrong reasons.
8 Our residential community is being violated
9 as I speak. They have cleared the land, they
10 have the road coming onto Cedar Bay Road, and
11 this is a mistake zoning that should never have
12 happened.
13 If you would restore our buffer zone to us,
14 we would appreciate this. As for what's
15 happening to the piece of industrial property
16 that is being rezoned now, in order to stop it,
17 I would have to take an injunction, put my own
18 personal money out, and fight a lawsuit. This
19 piece of legislature [sic] right here today is
20 going to ensure that other pieces of the
21 mistakenly-zoned property is restored back to
22 its proper zoning.
23 I thank you for your time. If you have any
24 questions, I'll be glad to answer them.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Any questions for
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1 Ms. Broward?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Broward.
4 Before we close the public hearing, I had
5 one question of Mr. Barker, and you looked like
6 you wanted to get up and say something anyway,
7 so let me ask you my question.
8 (Mr. Barker approaches the podium.)
9 MR. BARKER: I was going to ask you if I
10 could respond to one of the things that
11 Ms. Broward said.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let me ask you my
13 question first, and it's about something that
14 Ms. Broward had said about the property.
15 Is that property right now being used for
16 or planned to be used for retention?
17 MR. BARKER: The property -- there's a
18 confusion. The property that Ms. Broward is
19 talking about, about the construction, is not
20 the property that's the subject of your
21 ordinance.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. That's what I want
23 to clarify.
24 MR. BARKER: The property that is the
25 subject of your ordinance is being -- is
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1 completed as a retention/detention pond. If you
2 impose residential zoning in there, then we've
3 got a parcel with part of the parcel being
4 residential and part of it being light
5 industrial zoning, which creates a nightmare
6 actually at the end of the day for the park.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: But my question to you, sir,
8 was the 200-foot parcel, is that planned or
9 currently being used for retention? Is that
10 what the plan is for that piece?
11 MR. BARKER: Yes, sir.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
13 MR. BARKER: Both of the -- both the one
14 that is now -- in this ordinance and the one
15 further up that also is zoned IL as part of the
16 park -- it was the Florida National Guard
17 property, both of those parcels are in the
18 process of -- I think they're complete or
19 essentially complete with retention ponds.
20 The Florida National Guard property is in
21 Dr. Gaffney's district, but the --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: And that's on the south side
23 of Zoo Parkway?
24 MR. BARKER: No. That's on the south side
25 of Cedar Bay Road.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: That's not in Dr. Gaffney's
2 district.
3 MR. BARKER: I think the boundary slices
4 through the middle of Imeson.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That's on the south
6 side of Busch Drive?
7 MR. BARKER: It's on the north side of
8 Busch Drive, west of Canada Drive, the extension
9 of Canada Drive. I may -- if I'm mistaken about
10 that, I will -- you know, I've never figured out
11 how to read those maps correctly.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, we've got it. We're
13 looking at it right now. It's all in
14 District 11.
15 MR. BARKER: Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: But you wanted to ask a
17 question as well.
18 MR. BARKER: I wanted to respond to the --
19 to make it clear to the members of the committee
20 and to the council who see the record, that the
21 property where this construction is taking place
22 was sold by the Bostwicks. And the Bostwicks
23 and Imeson International Industrial Park,
24 Incorporated, are not the same people. They're
25 totally unrelated.
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1 My law partner represents the Bostwick
2 Trust, and this -- we don't talk about this
3 because Imeson is -- doesn't own that property.
4 Imeson has not developed any roads out onto
5 Cedar Bay Road and Imeson does not want any
6 roads out on Cedar Bay Road.
7 One reason they have built the retention
8 ponds, designed the retention ponds is because
9 they want to maintain a good 200-foot buffer
10 completely around the perimeter of this park to
11 separate their park, their industrial park from
12 this residential zoning.
13 Regardless of what you do with this
14 ordinance, that buffer is going to be there
15 because my client said they would put it there
16 and they do what they say they will do.
17 I ask that you defeat this ordinance
18 because it -- it creates a patchwork of zoning
19 on a parcel that belongs to an industrial park
20 that it has to sell to somebody, and then with a
21 double -- for industrial use with a piece of
22 residential tagged on to it.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
24 All right. Do we have any other
25 questions?
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1 MS. BROWARD: Could I have rebuttal?
2 THE CHAIRMAN: No. We need to stick to our
3 format.
4 If there's no other questions, I'm going to
5 close the public --
6 MR. JONES: (Indicating.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Jones.
8 MR. BARKER: For me?
9 MR. JONES: Yes, sir, Mr. Barker.
10 MR. BARKER: Yes.
11 MR. JONES: You stated that the property
12 that Ms. Broward was referring to is not this
13 property.
14 MR. BARKER: The property where the --
15 where they're doing the building pad and they're
16 putting the road out to Cedar Bay --
17 MR. JONES: Yes.
18 MR. BARKER: -- was a piece of Bostwick
19 property that the Bostwicks sold to whomever it
20 was, and my clients have nothing to do with that
21 project.
22 MR. JONES: Okay.
23 MR. BARKER: They didn't sell it for that
24 purpose, they didn't want it for that purpose.
25 I could go on.
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1 MR. JONES: You provided this map to us.
2 MR. BARKER: Yes, sir, I did.
3 MR. JONES: Okay. The arrow points to a
4 subject. What is that, a storm water retention
5 pond?
6 MR. BARKER: We were trying to identify on
7 that picture the approximate location of this
8 rezoning parcel, and part of -- not all of, but
9 part of that retention pond property that you
10 see there is described in the ordinance, we
11 think, based on the drawing, not based on the
12 legal.
13 MR. JONES: 14.4 acres of land?
14 MR. BARKER: That parcel is 14.4 acres.
15 The ordinance says that it is rezoning 8.9, I
16 think, something like that.
17 MR. JONES: Okay.
18 MR. BARKER: But the pond is bigger than
19 the 200 feet.
20 MR. JONES: Okay. All right. Thank you.
21 MR. BARKER: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we have any other
23 questions?
24 MR. JONES: I have.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you want to ask
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1 Ms. Broward a question?
2 MR. JONES: Let me ask Ms. Broward a
3 question.
4 Thank you.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (Applause.)
6 MR. JONES: No applause. I'm sorry.
7 Through the Chair to Ms. Broward, what land
8 are you referring to?
9 MS. BROWARD: I'm referring to the
10 entire -- from the edge of Cedar Bay Road from
11 Main Street down all the way to the end of
12 Cedar Bay Road.
13 Now, the reason why we -- it's put
14 residential is residential can be a buffer, but
15 so can a retention pond, so can a berm, so can a
16 parking lot as long as it doesn't come onto
17 Cedar Bay Road and it meets buffer zone
18 standards. So there are a number of issues that
19 can be used as a buffer.
20 A retention pond is one of those issues,
21 and they already meet that requirement. The
22 only reason we're putting it into residential is
23 because it is -- that is what it was originally
24 in 1986.
25 MR. JONES: Okay.
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1 MS. BROWARD: So it was from the edge of
2 Cedar Bay Road back into the -- on the south
3 side of Cedar Bay Road --
4 MR. JONES: Okay.
5 MS. BROWARD: -- for 200 feet.
6 And the -- he is right, the retention ponds
7 are fine. That is -- and that would be
8 considered a buffer.
9 The only reason we said residential is
10 because there was some residential property
11 along that area that was included in this
12 mistake rezoning, and it also meets the
13 residential requirement that was made in 1986.
14 MR. JONES: Okay. You go back to '86.
15 He's going back to '68.
16 MS. BROWARD: In '68, there was a -- there
17 was an industrial A and B zoning. What happened
18 was at the end of Cedar Bay Road there was a
19 sewer treatment facility placed, at the end of
20 Cedar Bay Road.
21 MR. JONES: Okay. Now, Cedar Bay -- help
22 me to -- I'm looking --
23 MS. BROWARD: That's all the way.
24 MR. JONES: All the way.
25 MS. BROWARD: Okay.
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1 MR. JONES: It comes -- it curves around
2 and comes south --
3 MS. BROWARD: Correct.
4 MR. JONES: -- along the river.
5 MS. BROWARD: Okay.
6 MR. JONES: And there's a tree farm and
7 then --
8 MS. BROWARD: District 2, yeah.
9 MR. JONES: So at the end of --
10 MS. BROWARD: Okay. It is Cedar Bay Road.
11 MR. JONES: Use the microphone so you're on
12 the record. I'm sorry.
13 MS. BROWARD: I'm sorry.
14 MR. BARKER: I'll point while you talk.
15 MS. BROWARD: At the end of Cedar Bay Road,
16 there was an industrial piece of zoning that was
17 inside the industrial park, and it was a public
18 utility and it was District 2 sewer treatment
19 facility. That was done -- in 1967 it was built
20 actually.
21 In '68 the residents of Cedar Bay Road
22 recognized that there could be industrial
23 movement into their residential community. So a
24 zoning was passed to make sure that all roads
25 would lead into the industrial park that was
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1 enacted. That was the original reason for the
2 1968 zoning. That --
3 Okay. But when the industrial park and the
4 Bostwick Trust tried to jump Cedar Bay Road into
5 a -- into our residential community on the
6 waterfront side, which would have been the north
7 side of the road, then we saw what was
8 happening, and our then councilman, Joe Forshee,
9 made sure that a buffer zone, 200 feet on the
10 south side of Cedar Bay Road --
11 MR. JONES: I got you there.
12 MS. BROWARD: -- was put in place. Then
13 that would -- only 200 feet back, and the buffer
14 zone would also be a retention pond.
15 So we're not really changing anything for
16 the industrial park property, not really. It's
17 not going to affect them because they are
18 already meeting buffer zone standards.
19 MR. JONES: Okay. All right. I'll defer
20 to Mr. Crofts when we close the public hearing.
21 Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
23 MS. BROWARD: Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Davis and Mr. Redman, I
25 have y'all on the queue, but could y'all yield
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1 to Mr. Crofts and let him bring some clarity and
2 then we'll close the public hearing and you can
3 ask your questions afterward.
4 MR. DAVIS: Are we closing the public
5 hearing?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, we'll close the public
7 hearing and speak to Mr. Crofts if you'd like.
8 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the public hearing.
10 Mr. Crofts, could you bring some clarity to
11 this?
12 MR. CROFTS: I'll do my darnest.
13 If I don't do anything else in this
14 presentation or what I say is -- I want to try
15 to accomplish two things.
16 First and foremost is notwithstanding the
17 previous testimony that was presented and
18 notwithstanding the agreement that was made in
19 1968 between -- actually not between, with an
20 agreement. Actually, the zoning board action of
21 1968 that created this industrial B zoning on
22 this particular property in question with a
23 buffer zone of industrial A, and both of those
24 are basically industrial uses.
25 If I don't do anything else but identify
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1 the fact that throughout -- notwithstanding
2 that -- those previous situations, this property
3 has been translated and continuously been
4 reflected in a residential zoning or residential
5 land use category since 19- -- since 1968 or
6 subsequent to 1968.
7 I have provided you with a series of map
8 photos of the zoning atlas, that series that you
9 have there. They are not very good photos, but
10 what I've tried to do is I've tried to show that
11 going back in the first -- in the 1970s.
12 And, Mr. Jones, you might recollect that
13 some of the previous zoning districts that we
14 had were RSF, prior to the letters and the
15 numbers that we use now.
16 That was back in the '70s that the zoning
17 along Cedar Bay Road -- if you can identify
18 where Cedar Bay Road was, back in that time on
19 the official zoning atlas, the zoning maps of
20 the City, we show that property as residential,
21 that strip, that buffer zone along the southern
22 boundary of Cedar Bay Road.
23 Those first two maps are -- show that,
24 those photos of those two maps. And the next
25 two maps basically show -- you'll see the LDR
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1 and RLD-G, which were the work maps -- you see
2 that Cedar Bay -- that buffer zone along the
3 southern side of Cedar Bay Road, you will see
4 that continuously carried forward is
5 residential, and that includes the property in
6 question.
7 (Mr. Brown exits the proceedings.)
8 MR. CROFTS: Okay. So on the official --
9 the first zoning maps that we did since
10 consolidation, you will see going back to those
11 photos that I showed you, that that property in
12 question that we're talking about today, that
13 9. acres, roughly nine acres, was residentially
14 zoned.
15 And later when we came forward with the
16 comprehensive plan on the maps 3 and 4, our work
17 maps show that area as LDR, RLD-G. Subsequent
18 to that, if you go to map number 5, you will see
19 on our current web site that property is LDR.
20 But for some unknown reason, it's zoned IL.
21 What we're trying to do today -- what I'm
22 trying to prove to you, that there is a
23 residential connotation to this strip of
24 property going back subsequent to that zoning
25 action in 1968, which is not translated in the
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1 official zoning records of the City of
2 Jacksonville or in the comprehensive plan.
3 Now, I know that testimony was presented
4 that the master plan for the development of the
5 park showed this area as industrial use, and
6 that's fine, but the official zoning atlas and
7 the official land use plan for the City of
8 Jacksonville show that area as residential.
9 Now, subsequent -- so we're talking about
10 today -- this is Mr. Holt's attempt to introduce
11 the legislation to restore that land use buffer
12 along -- the southern residential buffer along
13 the southern edge of Cedar Bay Road.
14 The fact that this property is now already
15 LDR land use, residential land use category,
16 strictly residential, this is a -- this is a
17 prevailing land use category today. And when we
18 look at the zoning code versus the comprehensive
19 plan, the land use category takes precedent over
20 the zoning, which is IL.
21 Now, you ask yourself the question about
22 the infrastructure and the things that are
23 occurring out there today, the borrow pit and
24 those types of things.
25 The City of Jacksonville, in its
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1 interpretation of the comprehensive plan, says
2 that any current infrastructure -- essential
3 public services are consistent -- and public
4 services are consistent with the comprehensive
5 plan. That includes roadways, certain operative
6 provisions, and other supportive types of uses
7 are allowed in all categories in the
8 comprehensive plan. So what they're doing out
9 there now is consistent with the comprehensive
10 plan.
11 What we're trying to do today is to bring
12 the zoning category in compliance with the land
13 use, which is residential. Florida Statutes say
14 that whenever there is an inconsistency between
15 the two -- Chapter 163, Section 13194 says that
16 where there is an inconsistency between the land
17 development regulations, which is the zoning in
18 this case, and the comprehensive plan, the
19 comprehensive plan will govern anyway.
20 And we're, as a local government,
21 responsible for bringing the zoning into
22 consistency with the comprehensive plan, which
23 is LDR. That's what's happening here,
24 consistent with my perception and my
25 recollection of the record that this property,
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1 even though there was a zoning agreement made in
2 1968 which has been reflected that this area
3 would have two zoning -- industrial zoning
4 classifications, one would be a buffer, the
5 industrial A, when we translated that into the
6 zoning code, it ended up, as I show you in my
7 photos, RSF and RLD-G.
8 Now, there was some reference to a planning
9 process that took place in 1985 when we did the
10 north district plan. That particular plan
11 included this property in question, and it was
12 adopted by the City Council by resolution. And
13 it said that the council hereby adopts this
14 north district plan, maps -- including map 16,
15 which is on file in the office of the City
16 Council. And all development -- all City
17 departments, all independent agencies are
18 directed to follow the guideline strategies and
19 recommendations contained in that plan.
20 Specifically map number 16 in that particular
21 plan deals with the land use category, which
22 depicts this area as residential.
23 Subsequent to that, in 1990 we adopted the
24 comprehensive plan, and that's map 3 and 4 that
25 I've given you, those photos that I've given
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1 you. And it shows that LDR or RLD-G. That
2 particular theme has been carried forward
3 throughout time for the last 40 years.
4 Even though -- and I don't discredit the
5 zoning board's decision back in 1968 that said
6 this property was zoned industrial A and
7 industrial B, but that was not translated in the
8 official records of the City of Jacksonville
9 pursuant to the -- as it's reflected in the
10 zoning code and in the comprehensive plan.
11 And in the comprehensive plan, when we
12 designated that area residential, it was a
13 by-product of the recommendations in this north
14 district plan which was adopted by the
15 City Council by resolution in 1986.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crofts.
18 Mr. Davis, I still have you on the queue.
19 MR. DAVIS: Well, I think that on sidebar I
20 received a lot of information that will probably
21 save a lot of time and questions on the record.
22 Very frustrating issue, and I can
23 understand the concern of the community. And I
24 guess the only question I had was, was there
25 another possible zoning that would be amenable
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1 to both parties?
2 And I didn't know if Councilman Holt was --
3 looks like you've kind of been in the middle of
4 this, if there were any discussions along those
5 lines or if there were any options that would
6 maybe be better for the community and the
7 industrial park because we have set precedents
8 trying not to put residential next to industrial
9 uses.
10 So I guess if you could just enlighten me
11 on some of the conversations and the reasoning
12 before this -444.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
14 Well, I'll go ahead and say my piece now
15 then.
16 There have been some discussions of -- this
17 is one of those battlegrounds where industrial
18 is right next door to residential. It's been
19 that way for many, many years, since Imeson was
20 no longer an airport and became an industrial
21 park. And I have quite a few of those
22 battlegrounds, border grounds in my district.
23 The piece of property that we're talking
24 about here, because there's been some confusion,
25 in 1991 was -- in the comprehensive plan as
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1 residential. Okay? Then in -- correct me if
2 I'm wrong -- 2001 was when Jeannie Fewell did
3 the administrative change to the zoning.
4 MR. CROFTS: But not to this property.
5 This property was -- excuse me. Through the
6 Chair, this property is east of that property,
7 that Phoenix Wire & Roping & Rigging [sic] --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: This one wasn't included in
9 that?
10 MR. CROFTS: This was not.
11 This property was -- has been LDR land
12 use. So it sort of steered away the whole
13 intent of somebody, you know, privately marking
14 it as industrial because it had the LDR land
15 use.
16 But this is not the same. This property
17 does not include that other industrial use to
18 the west.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Suffice it to say, as
20 Mr. Crofts was explaining earlier, the
21 predominant land use and zoning in the area is
22 residential on Cedar Bay, and the people on
23 that -- on that road are rightly concerned that
24 something is going to be put right up against
25 the road. And the historic evidence is that
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1 past councils have supported that there be a
2 buffer of residential along that road, and
3 that's why I introduced this bill, and that's
4 why I would ask for your support in bringing
5 this property's zoning and land use consistent
6 with each other.
7 Now, I understand that Mr. Barker and his
8 client are concerned that having that strip of
9 residential might cause some concern for future
10 development of their light industrial property.
11 Considering it's being used as a retention, I
12 think that they could probably show that to any
13 potential clients.
14 Yes, sir.
15 MR. DAVIS: No, I just wanted to respond
16 back.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold is raising his
18 hand there.
19 MR. DAVIS: I think I asked you the
20 question. I was hoping that I could keep the
21 floor if that's possible.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Go ahead, and then
23 I'll speak after everyone else.
24 MR. DAVIS: So I guess the question is, is
25 there another land -- or another zoning category
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1 that could be used here that makes everybody
2 comfortable?
3 Sometimes we have -- what is it, a PBF,
4 or -- what is the facilities -- would that
5 mean -- do you have retention?
6 MR. CROFTS: Business park.
7 MR. DAVIS: So I guess that was my question
8 to you, if anybody had kind of looked at an
9 additional zoning category that might make
10 everybody feel more comfortable.
11 MR. CROFTS: I would -- through the Chair,
12 if I may.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
14 MR. CROFTS: Keep in mind the land use is
15 LDR right now, residential, so we've got to do
16 the land use change. You know, obviously in the
17 comp plan, if there's any type of land use or
18 zoning that relates better or more positively to
19 residential, it's a business park, you know,
20 self-contained office type of uses. That's kind
21 of intermediate that we look at in terms of a
22 land use that might more appropriately, more
23 desirably be next to residential.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, and then we'll
25 go to our queue.
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1 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to the
2 Councilmember, just along the lines of other
3 zoning districts, I actually spoke with
4 Mr. Barker and I kind of presented two other
5 alternatives that I thought might work. One was
6 a PUD which would restrict their access onto
7 Cedar Bay Road but keep some of the other and
8 have that area be a buffer with either retention
9 or no structures or the like. Thus, that they
10 wouldn't have the stigma of a residential zoning
11 in their district -- on their property. They
12 rejected that.
13 Maybe they might come forward today and say
14 that sounds good, but I'm just saying that was
15 one option that I was trying to propose which
16 would, one, wouldn't have the residential
17 connotation, but, two, wouldn't have the access
18 onto Cedar Bay Road. That's kind of a win/win
19 for everybody, and that would go along with a --
20 potentially a companion comp plan change to some
21 form of light industrial or BP as John was
22 talking about.
23 The other option was doing a comprehensive
24 plan amendment to bring it to some type of
25 industrial use but have concurrently with that
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1 some form of declaration of deeds and
2 restrictions that would restrict the use of that
3 property, that would be recorded by the property
4 owner, that wouldn't have industrial uses onto
5 Cedar Bay Road.
6 Those are some of the different options
7 that I thought might be amenable to, one, the
8 neighbors and to the property owner, and both of
9 them were rejected.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
11 Mr. Reingold.
12 I have --
13 Did that answer all your questions,
14 Mr. Davis?
15 Not really?
16 MR. DAVIS: Well, I just think that
17 there's -- and let me just say I support the
18 chairman on this issue. I think that you're
19 trying to make -- play the best hand you can
20 with the cards you were dealt. Okay? And
21 sometimes that's not easy.
22 I was just wondering if -- man, there has
23 to be some alternative like what Mr. Reingold
24 was talking about that would not be as -- as
25 invasive, I guess, for the industrial park, but
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1 if every -- the parties are refusing that, then
2 I guess you don't have much of an alternative.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
4 And maybe there is room for that between
5 now and next week if the folks want to come back
6 to the table, but -- Mr. Joost.
7 MR. JOOST: Kind of took the words out of
8 my mouth. I mean, it seems like there's plenty
9 of room for compromise because the question I
10 wrote to myself was -- I mean, why not zone it
11 with restrictions? I mean, for example, whether
12 it's residential or light industrial, if we zone
13 it to where it can only be used as a retention
14 pond, once the retention pond is -- it makes no
15 difference. I mean, you're arguing form over
16 substance, so . . .
17 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to the
18 Councilmember, you're exactly right, and that's
19 why one of the concepts that I brought up was
20 why don't we do it through the PUD.
21 Again, what I heard from the property
22 owner, through their agent, was they didn't like
23 the split zoning concept. Well, part of the
24 property, I believe, is zoned -- and Planning
25 Department, you can let me know if I'm wrong on
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1 this -- part of their property is zoned heavy
2 industrial, part of their property is zoned
3 light industrial.
4 My thought was, well, then maybe a small
5 part of your portion of property could be zoned
6 PUD. That was some of the concepts. And the
7 PUD would allow for that type of restrictions
8 and conditions.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
10 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 My understanding, right, that we're
12 proposing this change would change the zoning
13 here different from the buffer all the way down
14 to Main Street, Mr. Crofts?
15 MR. CROFTS: That's a good question.
16 The -- that's probably the second phase of
17 this and probably the more critical phase
18 because that portion -- the second phase of this
19 buffer is already -- and this is part of the
20 complaint that you're hearing about, this
21 administrative change that was made in 2001,
22 that property -- if you look at the fifth -- or
23 the sixth map that I've given you is already
24 industrial.
25 In this particular case, the property is
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1 zoned -- in that particular case -- if we try to
2 restore that buffer to the property back to
3 Main Street along Cedar Bay Road, then we're
4 going to have to do a land use amendment and a
5 rezoning, a land use amendment to LDR and a
6 rezoning to RLD-60.
7 In this particular case, we've got the land
8 use and we're just doing the second phase of it
9 to bring the zoning in compliance with the land
10 use. So that will be the second phase of this,
11 the buffer going back to Main Street, if that
12 moves forward in that direction.
13 MR. REDMAN: Which is going to create a lot
14 of problems for several other property owners if
15 we get into that state.
16 MR. CROFTS: That's correct.
17 MR. REDMAN: Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
19 MR. JONES: I guess I'm a little confused
20 now. That last comment by Mr. Redman, you're
21 going to create problems for which property
22 owners?
23 MR. CROFTS: The property -- through the
24 Chair to Mr. Jones, the property back to the
25 west along Cedar Bay going towards Main Street
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1 already has the industrial land use and the
2 industrial zoning, which was changed
3 administratively by the planning director in the
4 year 2001. That administrative change to IL and
5 LI zoning did not include the Imeson property
6 that we're talking about this evening.
7 MR. JONES: Okay. If we're -- first of
8 all, the land use is residential.
9 MR. CROFTS: The property -- yes. Tonight
10 the property up for debate on -444 is currently
11 LDR land use. That is absolutely correct.
12 MR. JONES: Okay. And it's your
13 understanding it's been that way since '68?
14 MR. CROFTS: It's my understanding, based
15 on a derivative of previous studies and zoning
16 designations on the zoning atlas, we carried
17 that theme forward with the comprehensive plan
18 in 1990 and put that LDR land use on that
19 property, and it has been that way ever since
20 1990.
21 MR. JONES: And I don't understand why the
22 owner is opposed to it when it's -- you have
23 mostly retention pond there, so they couldn't
24 use it anyway.
25 MR. CROFTS: As I indicated previously, in
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1 terms of these kinds of uses which are
2 considered secondary and supportive uses,
3 property of this infrastructure and associated
4 uses of this nature of a public service are
5 consistent with all categories of the
6 comprehensive plan. And he's had the
7 opportunity and the privilege of doing that and
8 holding that particular land use category for
9 the last -- since 1990, and he's proceeding and
10 doing what he -- you know, there's no
11 problems --
12 MR. JONES: Right.
13 MR. CROFTS: -- moving forward. So it's
14 just the anomaly in this case that for some
15 unknown reason the property was zoned IL rather
16 than changed to LDR.
17 But anyway, he's had the LDR land use and
18 has continued to develop and make the changes
19 and moving forward as they seem to have
20 perceived in their particular development plan
21 for that area under the current land use of LDR.
22 MR. JONES: Mr. Chairman, with that, I
23 would probably -- I guess I would move approval,
24 given the fact that it should not interfere with
25 the development of the property. It protects
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1 the property owners who live north of Cedar Bay
2 Road from any type of industrial encroachment
3 and it's consistent with the land use.
4 Okay. I move the amendment.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: No, we have no amendment.
6 I have a motion.
7 MR. DAVIS: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Second.
9 Mr. Joost.
10 MR. JOOST: Just a question for, I guess,
11 Mr. Crofts again.
12 I mean, you know, we're talking about
13 industrial encroachment. Well, residential
14 encroachment can work the other way. You know,
15 because what comes to my mind is, say -- let's
16 say we change the zoning and it becomes
17 residential, what prevents somebody, for
18 example, actually building a house on that side
19 of Cedar Bay? You know, the old scenario where,
20 you know, I build the house next to the airport,
21 now I want to complain about the noise.
22 I mean, does anything prevent -- what my
23 intent is, is we need to preserve the buffer
24 zone. So if we go the other way and zone it
25 industrial, what prevents somebody from building
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1 a house there -- and then like I see this Merita
2 Bakery, I'm sure they've got delivery trucks,
3 you know, at 5:00 a.m. in the morning coming in
4 and out of that warehouse, you know, making
5 their deliveries. And whoever builds a house,
6 say, right next to that, for example, is going
7 to be sorely disappointed when they hear those
8 trucks coming back and forth.
9 MR. KELLY: To Councilmember Joost, the
10 rezoning of this property -- as you know, this
11 is located, again, within the -- what is
12 classified as the industrial sanctuary right
13 now. A rezoning to residential requires
14 compliance with buffer standards.
15 In this case, because of the rezoning to
16 single-family residential, there's -- adjacent
17 to a light industrial land use zoning category,
18 that that residential land is required to
19 provide a 200-foot buffer, so essentially it
20 maintains the integrity of the buffer by
21 rezoning that.
22 MR. JOOST: So by basically default of the
23 existing law, there's no way you can build a
24 house there?
25 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
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1 MR. JOOST: Okay.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
3 I don't have anybody else on my queue.
4 I would just say I don't want us to get
5 bogged down in the other properties down there
6 by Merita Bakery. The property we're talking
7 about tonight is on the other end of Cedar Bay
8 Road.
9 But I would just say that I would
10 appreciate it if we could support this tonight
11 and bring this back into consistency. You know,
12 the property can't be used at all because it's
13 got an inconsistent land use and zoning. And
14 historically it has been residential, and I
15 would appreciate your support.
16 With that, I have no one else on my queue.
17 I have a motion and a second.
18 Please open the ballot.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
23 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
2 the vote.
3 (Committee ballot closed.)
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
6 approved 2009-444.
7 Mr. Davis, did you want to speak on -455?
8 MR. DAVIS: -444, I just wanted to follow
9 up, if it's okay, Mr. Chairman, in saying --
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, please.
11 MR. DAVIS: -- I would be -- if you did
12 have conversations with the property owners
13 between now and Tuesday night, I would be very
14 supportive of any resolution you'd bring to the
15 committee.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
17 I hope that we are able to come to some
18 sort of an agreement with Mr. Barker on
19 something that would be satisfactory to both
20 parties.
21 Thank you.
22 Now we're on 2009-455. We will open the
23 public hearing.
24 I have no speakers.
25 We'll close that public hearing.
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1 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
2 MR. JONES: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
4 on -455.
5 No speakers.
6 Please open the ballot.
7 (Committee ballot opened.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
11 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
19 approved 2009-455.
20 We have already handled -456.
21 -494 is deferred, as well as the companion
22 rezoning, -495.
23 Number 19, 2009-500. We will open the
24 public hearing. We have one speaker, Randy
25 Gallup for questions only.
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1 Mr. Gallup, are you here for questions
2 only, sir?
3 MR. GALLUP: (Nods head.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
5 We will close the public hearing.
6 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
7 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
9 on 2009-500.
10 No speakers.
11 Please open the ballot.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
16 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
20 the vote.
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
24 approved 2009-500.
25 MR. GALLUP: Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: And we have from here on a
2 series of read seconds, but we have a couple
3 with amendments and subs, so let's see.
4 Items 20, 21 and 22 are read second. 23,
5 24, 25, 26 and 27 are read second. 28, 29, 30,
6 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 are all read second.
7 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 is read second.
8 44 we have an amendment.
9 MR. JONES: Move the amendment.
10 MR. JOOST: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Have a motion and a second
12 on the amendment on -539.
13 All in favor of the amendment signify by
14 saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, you have
19 approved the amendment.
20 And I guess we need a motion to rerefer.
21 MR. JONES: Move to rerefer.
22 MR. JOOST: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to
24 rerefer 2009-539.
25 No speakers.
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1 Please open the ballot.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
6 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 amended and rereferred -539.
15 Items 45, 46, 47, all of page 13 are second
16 and rereferred.
17 Item number 53, 2009-548, we have a
18 substitute.
19 MR. JONES: Move the substitute.
20 MR. JOOST: Move the sub.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
22 on the substitute.
23 Is that a voice vote or --
24 MS. ELLER: Voice vote.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All in favor of the
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1 substitute signify by saying aye.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we have -- you
6 have approved the substitute.
7 I need a motion to rerefer.
8 MR. JONES: Move to rerefer.
9 MR. JOOST: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion and second to
11 rerefer.
12 Please open the ballot.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
17 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
21 the vote.
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 subbed and rereferred 2009-548.
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1 Items 54, 55, 56, 57 --
2 MR. JOOST: (Inaudible.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, 57 we have an
4 amendment.
5 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
6 MR. JONES: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
8 on the amendment.
9 All in favor signify by saying aye.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: You have approved the
14 amendment.
15 Need a motion to rerefer.
16 MR. JOOST: Move to rerefer.
17 MR. JONES: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
19 to rerefer.
20 Please open the ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
25 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
4 the vote.
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
8 amended and rereferred 2009-613.
9 Items 58 and 59 are second and rereferred.
10 And, if I'm correct, we have completed our
11 agenda.
12 All right. Well, thank you all for being
13 here tonight. We are adjourned.
14 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
15 6:40 p.m.)
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 9th day of August, 2009.
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Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203