1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, July 21, 2009,
7 commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers,
8 1st Floor,
9 Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State of
10
11
12 PRESENT:
13 RAY HOLT, Chair.
WARREN JONES, Vice Chair.
14 REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.
DANIEL DAVIS, Committee Member.
15 STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.
DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
16
17 ALSO PRESENT:
18 JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
19 KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
20
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
21 JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
22 - - -
23
24
25
Diane M. Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 July 21, 2009 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. It looks like
5 we've got everybody here now, so let's go ahead
6 and call this meeting to order.
7 We have one council member who is excused,
8 Mr. Gaffney.
9 We are the Land Use and Zoning Committee.
10 This is July 21, 2009.
11 And, Mr. Crofts, could you start us off,
12 and we'll say who we are around the --
13 MR. CROFTS: My name is John Crofts, and
14 I'm representing the Planning and Development
15 Department.
16 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
17 Development.
18 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
19 Development.
20 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
21 Development.
22 MS. ELLER: Shannon Eller, General
23 Counsel's Office.
24 MR. DAVIS: Daniel Davis, concerned
25 citizen.
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 MR. BROWN: Reginald Brown, Councilman,
2 District 10.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Ray Holt, District 11.
4 MR. JONES: Warren Jones, reluctant member
5 of LUZ.
6 MR. JOOST: You may be reluctant but
7 important.
8 Stephen Joost, Group 3 at-large.
9 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, District 4.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Well, thank you
11 all for being here tonight.
12 Please be patient with me. This is our
13 first meeting.
14 Starting off on page 2 -- we have quite a
15 few deferrals tonight, so we should be out of
16 here pretty quickly.
17 MR. JOOST: Our first meeting was
18 25 minutes.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know if we're going
20 to make that. We do have an appeal later.
21 Item 1, 2008-541, is deferred, as well as
22 -542.
23 And item 3, 2008-880 --
24 MR. JOOST: Move to withdraw.
25 MR. JONES: Second.
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and a
2 second on withdrawal.
3 Please open the ballot.
4 (Committee ballot opened.)
5 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
12 the vote.
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you.
16 Item number 4 --
17 MR. JONES: (Inaudible.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry.
19 By your action, you have withdrawn
20 2008-880.
21 Thank you, Mr. Jones.
22 Item number 4, 2009-91, we have a public
23 hearing. Open the public hearing.
24 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
25 public hearing, take no further action.
Diane M.
Tropia,
5
1 Item number 5, 2009-252, we have a public
2 hearing. We will open that public hearing.
3 Seeing no speakers, we will continue that
4 public hearing to August 18th and take no
5 further action.
6 Item number 6, 2009-254, is deferred, as
7 well as item number 7, 2009-287, 2009-288, and
8 2009-326.
9 2009-347, we will open the public hearing.
10 Seeing no speakers, we will close the
11 public hearing.
12 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
13 MR. REDMAN: Second.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second
15 on 2009-347.
16 Please open the ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
Diane M.
Tropia,
6
1 (Committee ballot closed.)
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have --
4 you've passed -347.
5 Item number 11, 2009-348, we have a public
6 hearing.
7 Open the public hearing.
8 Seeing no speakers, we will close the
9 public hearing.
10 MR. JOOST: Move to withdraw.
11 MR. DAVIS: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no speakers, please
13 open the ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
22 the vote.
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
Diane M.
Tropia,
7
1 withdrawn 2009-348.
2 Number 12, 2009-350, open the public
3 hearing.
4 No speakers, we will continue that public
5 hearing and take no further action.
6 Item number 13, 2009-399, is for deferral
7 tonight.
8 Item number 14, 2009-401, we have a public
9 hearing.
10 Open the public hearing. We have one
11 speaker, Mr. Robert Jones.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Robert A.
14 Jones.
I reside at
15 Apartment 13, ZIP code 32216. The phone number
16 is 721-2389.
17 I'm here to speak on behalf of -- in favor
18 of -401. I'd like to give you some statistical
19 information to back up my support.
20 JTA Connexion currently has over 6,600 bus
21 stops. Currently, there are only 400 bus
22 shelters at these stops. These shelters cost
23 anywhere between 4- to $12,000, depending on
24 what they have to do at the particular stop, and
25 maintenance on these average about $1,200 a
Diane M.
Tropia,
8
1 year. That's cutting grass, cleaning up the --
2 around the area, the waste cans, et cetera,
3 which amounts to about a half a million dollars
4 that JTA puts out each year.
5 If this signage bill is passed to allow
6 advertisement on the bus shelters -- they have a
7 program that they are working on, that -- the
8 program will consist of the next 15 years,
9 50 bus shelters will be put up each year
10 underneath this program.
11 The beauty of this program being passed
12 with the signage is that they will not have to
13 pay for the bus shelters, they will not have to
14 pay for the maintenance. That will be taken
15 care of by the outfit that gets this contract,
16 and I'm hoping and praying that you will support
17 this bus shelter advertisement program.
18 There are constituents out there that use
19 the bus line and stand out there in the
20 elements. And, you know, it's advantageous to
21 have some place to sit and possibly out of the
22 rain a little bit or be out of the sunshine that
23 could beat down on you quite a bit. It's quite
24 difficult to stand out there under those
25 conditions.
Diane M.
Tropia,
9
1 I would hope and pray that you would vote
2 in favor of this bill, but I do find something
3 very ironic. I was told that the bill to
4 support was Councilman Warren Jones' -402. And,
5 unfortunately, I just found out here that that
6 bill opposes the -401. And, unfortunately, I've
7 been spreading the word about -402, so hopefully
8 I'll try to get to the people in the disability
9 communities that I have contacted because I find
10 it ironic to have two bills that close together,
11 one for, one opposed.
12 I would think that the one for, if that got
13 defeated, why would you need a bill to oppose?
14 Thank you very much.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Jones.
16 You're wanting to ask a question?
17 MR. JONES: Yeah, I just -- Mr. Jones, I
18 just wanted to thank you for taking time to come
19 down, and I know you took a lot of effort to
20 make the trip.
21 And also any council member can sponsor a
22 bill, and it just so happened that someone
23 introduced a bill that's in opposition to what
24 we're trying to do with -401 right after I had
25 the bill drafted. So it was nothing, you know,
Diane M.
Tropia,
10
1 mean spirited about it. They just was trying to
2 get their point across.
3 And so I appreciate you taking the time,
4 and we've got a lot of work to do, but I think
5 we can build a consensus and move forward with
6 the bill.
7 Thank you.
8 MR. R. JONES: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Jones.
10 And we have no further speakers within the
11 public hearing, so we'll continue that public
12 hearing.
13 Mr. Davis.
14 MR. DAVIS: Yes. I don't know -- I think
15 that I had sent a message to Councilmember
16 Jones' assistant. I wanted to have my name
17 added to this bill. So I don't know if that's
18 already in process or if we can do that.
19 MS. LAHMEUR: I can check for you.
20 MR. DAVIS: Okay. Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no
22 further speakers, we have continued that public
23 hearing.
24 So we'll go to item 15, 2009-402, which is
25 deferred.
Diane M.
Tropia,
11
1 Number 16, 2009-429. We'll open the public
2 hearing.
3 We have no speakers. We'll continue that
4 public hearing and take no further action.
5 Item 17, -444, is deferred, as is 18 and
6 19.
7 And item 20, 2009-463, we have an appeal,
8 so first we need to open the public hearing.
9 And now would be the time for anybody to
10 declare ex-parte.
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a couple of
13 speakers, but first if we could have the
14 Planning Department tell us what happened at
15 Planning Commission.
16 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
17 To the Chair, members of committee,
18 application for zoning variance was a request to
19 increase the square footage of a detached
20 accessory structure. The property is located at
22 The department reviewed the request and
23 found that the -- essentially the request was in
24 keeping with the definition of a variance, and
25 we felt that the elevations that were provided
Diane M.
Tropia,
12
1 with the application maintained the residential
2 character of the area.
3 The Planning Commission also reviewed this,
4 and after a little bit of debate with regards to
5 the intended use of the structure, the
6 commission voted to approve it. I believe it
7 was a unanimous vote. And there was one
8 condition of approval, essentially that would
9 restrict the structure as being used as an
10 independent living facility.
11 So we're here and be glad to answer any
12 questions.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Sean.
14 Let's go ahead and hear from our speakers.
15 The way I want to lay this out is we're going to
16 give ten minutes to each side. We only have
17 three speakers, so I'm sure it's going to be
18 easy to stay within that, but we'll start with
19 the appellant side.
20 If Mr. Charles Roberson --
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: If you could give your name
23 and address for the record. And you're the only
24 speaker in opposition, so we can give you up to
25 ten minutes. If you want to reserve some of
Diane M.
Tropia,
13
1 your time to rebut what the property owner has
2 to say, you can do that --
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would like to do that.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: -- but you have a total of
5 ten minutes.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Charles
7 Roberson. I live at
8 I'm in opposition to Mr. Cannon's
9 building. I'm here speaking for myself and
10 other people in our homeowners association. I'm
11 the vice president of that association.
12 Some of them were not able to be here due
13 to physical problems. A couple of them is
14 working out of town and couldn't be present at
15 the meeting. They had sent letters to the
16 board. I hope that you had received those, as
17 well as I had sent one.
18 This building is contrary to what other
19 people have said. It's not [sic] in contrast
20 with what's in the rest of our neighborhood.
21 Also, it was stated in the last meeting
22 that this building was like many others in the
23 neighborhood. There's not a single building
24 like this anywhere in our neighborhood.
25 It has the look and size of a commercial
Diane M.
Tropia,
14
1 garage, which I know he's not going to do that,
2 but it's 14 foot high with lifts, compressors,
3 lots of work, seems like, would be taking place,
4 which is all a nuisance, depending on how it's
5 done, but you don't have a garage this size
6 without a lot of activity taking place.
7 The upstairs is the biggest concern of
8 mine, and the other people that live around my
9 area that's within sight of this building who
10 couldn't be here.
11 All of the activity that goes with it, the
12 noise and everything, if -- with a garage. If
13 you put a potential living quarters above this
14 building, which is just like a garage apartment,
15 he may or may not use it for that, but at the
16 same time, it is there.
17 If you build a liveable space, sooner or
18 later the present owner or the next owner will
19 have somebody living in it. This is against our
20 homeowners association and covenants.
21 If somebody ends up living in there and you
22 allow this to be built, then the homeowners
23 association has to go back, try to go to court,
24 try to stop this, which is almost impossible to
25 do.
Diane M.
Tropia,
15
1 Plus, the association doesn't have the
2 money for any type of litigation. And according
3 to the rule that was made in the last hearing,
4 that there -- it wouldn't be used for liveable
5 space.
6 Well, if they had somebody in it, a family
7 member or whoever, and they spent the night
8 somewhere else for one day a month and spent the
9 other 29 days in this fully-equipped garage
10 apartment basically, then they would probably be
11 within their obligation to not have it as
12 regular living quarters.
13 So I'm opposed to it and my other neighbors
14 around it is opposed to it, and I'd like to ask
15 that you not approve at least the upstairs
16 part.
17 If there was a regular style roof put on
18 the building with reasonable storage, like my
19 garage or another garage in the area, then that
20 would be acceptable, even though we got a
21 14-foot-high garage that stares down into my
22 property and seriously affects the property
23 value and the saleability and attractiveness of
24 my lot.
25 So that's it for now.
Diane M.
Tropia,
16
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
2 And you still have plenty of time if you
3 want to rebut --
4 MR. ROBERSON: Okay.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: -- what the property owner
6 has to say.
7 We have three people who submitted cards in
8 support, so you have ten minutes. If you guys
9 want to divide it up equally or just have one
10 person as spokesperson, that's fine by me, but
11 we have ten minutes total for that side.
12 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Please give your name and
14 address for the record.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Robert
16 Little.
I live at
17 I'm also on the board of directors for our
18 association, but I'm not representing myself as
19 a board member here as was just done.
20 This has not come across our board of
21 directors for any intents and purposes
22 whatsoever. Mr. Cannon is seeking a zoning
23 variance on an approved plan that was submitted
24 to our board about two years ago. He comes to
25 the zoning board to try to get that second story
Diane M.
Tropia,
17
1 put on it.
2 There are other houses in the neighborhood
3 above the 1,800 square foot that he's asking
4 for, and I point to
5 being one of them, which is within a block's
6 distance of this same property.
7 As a concerned homeowner, I think it should
8 be in everybody's right to increase their
9 property value and do improvements on their
10 properties. And I, for one, I'm standing here
11 on behalf of a neighbor, but not a friend or
12 anything else, but I think he's got that right
13 as long as the City agrees with the zoning and
14 he complies with our guidelines for our
15 association.
16 Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
18 We also have James Cannon.
19 Mr. Cannon, did you want to speak in
20 favor?
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, sir, board
23 members.
24 My name is James W. Cannon. I reside at
Diane M.
Tropia,
18
1 32226.
2 Thank you for hearing this statement.
3 I'd like to state that I have received full
4 permitting from the City for my project. I meet
5 or exceed all the required setbacks, my lot and
6 primary structure are large enough in size to
7 meet the standard set by the City.
8 The building has a 900-square-foot
9 footprint, less than half the size of my
10 residence. The building is not a shed or a
11 lean-to. It is engineered to meet current
12 hurricane standards and will be finished to
13 match my house, including air-condition and
14 drywall spaces within the garage.
15 The building is 76 feet away from the
16 roadway, under a large canopy of mature oak
17 trees. The trees are left in place to preserve
18 the nature of the neighborhood and to shield the
19 line of sight of the structure, and this is also
20 in direct disagreement with my builder who
21 wanted to remove the trees to have open space
22 above the building. I refused because I like
23 the mature trees and I wanted to shield the
24 building from view for the most I could.
25 The second story -- well, the building is
Diane M.
Tropia,
19
1 for a hobby workshop for myself. I have three
2 vintage automobiles that belong to myself, my
3 wife, and my son. It's designed for a lift to
4 store one of the vehicles so there's floor space
5 left for a work area seeing as it's only
6 900 square foot.
7 The upstairs, the second story of the
8 building is designed as an entertainment space
9 with a full bath for use by my guests who visit
10 my house and wish to use the pool. There is a
11 small wet bar designed into the building but no
12 kitchen.
13 Economically, the second floor of the
14 building makes sense because the building,
15 1,800 square foot slab and roof line, would be
16 cost prohibitive in answer to Mr. Robinson's
17 [sic] appeal. He stated that if I'm allowed to
18 build this open second floor, it will be used as
19 an apartment.
20 I have stated it will be a game room. This
21 statement was made on the record and under
22 oath. The zoning board, upon granting my
23 variance, stated the building could not be
24 used -- or could not be issued its own address
25 and therefore could not be used as a residence.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
20
1 They did note that it did not prohibit me
2 from using this area as a pool house for
3 temporary guest lodging. All right? There are
4 several regulatory agencies that can be notified
5 if there are any future violations of the zoning
6 board's decisions.
7 Following his premise, we should not be
8 allowed to use cars or have them because we
9 might speed or wreck or damage other people's
10 property.
11 Mr. Robertson [sic] also contends this
12 building will hurt his property values. I've
13 checked the property appraiser's web site,
14 COJ.net, and I found every property that has a
15 utility structure, including Mr. Robinson's
16 [sic], has an additional value placed on the
17 structure. Nowhere on the adjoining properties'
18 records are notes that there are deductions in
19 value of the properties that reside next to
20 places that have utility structures or garages.
21 Mr. Robinson has also argued that there are
22 no other storage -- second story -- there are no
23 other two-story utility structures. I feel this
24 is only because the ordinance change was recent,
25 November 2008. Therefore, the existing
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
21
1 houses -- many of the existing houses have
2 single-story garages because they were built
3 before the ordinance change.
4 In addition, many of the primary structures
5 on those properties were only single stories, so
6 they would not be allowed to have the additional
7 height added to their utility structures.
8 But there are structures in the
9 neighborhood. I have a map and pictures, if
10 anybody would like to see, of large four-car
11 garages, properties with two two-car garages, a
12 house with a warehouse-size garage, metal
13 structure, and several other smaller metal
14 structures in the neighborhood of Cape Coral,
15 and I believe that Mr. Robinson is only applying
16 a narrow view of the neighborhood to our street
17 itself and not the overall neighborhood.
18 Thank you very much.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
20 Do we have any questions?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, if we have
23 no --
24 MR. DAVIS: I have a question.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Davis.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
22
1 MR. DAVIS: Yes. Can you repeat to me what
2 your plans are for the facade of the building?
3 Is it going to be -- is your house -- I'm
4 looking at an overhead view right now. Is your
5 house brick?
6 MR. CANNON: It has a brick front facade
7 with vinyl siding on three sides.
8 MR. DAVIS: So you have vinyl siding on
9 three sides --
10 MR. CANNON: Yes, sir.
11 MR. DAVIS: -- and brick up front?
12 MR. CANNON: Three sides and brick on the
13 front facade.
14 MR. DAVIS: And what would the -- this
15 would be --
16 MR. CANNON: Finished in vinyl siding to
17 match the house.
18 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
19 All right. That was my question.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
21 Mr. Redman.
22 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 Is this utility structure higher than the
24 house?
25 MR. CANNON: No, sir.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
23
1 MR. REDMAN: Okay. Is this a
2 deed-restricted neighborhood?
3 MR. CANNON: Yes, it is.
4 MR. REDMAN: Are there any regulations in
5 the restrictions that would -- that you would be
6 violating?
7 MR. CANNON: There is no restriction
8 against utility building height. I just have to
9 provide [sic] by the ordinances of the City.
10 MR. REDMAN: Okay. Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no
12 further questions, Mr. Roberson, did you want to
13 use your time for rebuttal?
14 (Mr. Roberson approaches the podium.)
15 MR. ROBERSON: The reason I mentioned that
16 I'm here representing the people in our
17 homeowners association that don't agree with the
18 building is because those people could not be
19 here in person and they asked me to do that. We
20 would expect the president of our association to
21 do that, but he is obviously not involved in any
22 of this, and that's another issue.
23 As far as the garages, we have one street
24 with a cul-de-sac neighborhood, 37 houses, 38.
25 You get different numbers. I have searched this
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
24
1 small neighborhood and cannot find any two-story
2 garages with a 14 foot height to the garage and
3 an additional 15 or so feet for a structure
4 above it. It does not exist in my
5 neighborhood.
6 My covenants covers my neighborhood of
7 Cape Coral, not the Cape. The Cape is a
8 separate subdivision that we have built inside
9 of their subdivision. They have no covenants.
10 They build whatever they want. And I can't find
11 a building like this even in the Cape, but it
12 doesn't matter, we don't live in the Cape. Our
13 association and covenants is for Cape Coral
14 only.
15 Directly behind myself and Mr. Cannon is
16 the pond and the creek and then a part of the --
17 the original Cape subdivision. There is two or
18 three people that live directly behind us, off
19 to the left, who I spoke to, the closest one
20 today. And his wife just passed away. He could
21 not be at the hearing, but he has a problem with
22 it because of the potential noise and what have
23 you that would come from the garage, and the
24 height of it.
25 There is a nice canopy if the trees is
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
25
1 trimmed properly. It won't be a big deal. A
2 certain amount of it. I see the whole side of
3 it. It's right in my backyard.
4 But there is a number of people that could
5 not be here who are in opposition and have sent
6 letters to that effect. They have to look at
7 it, they have to see it. They have to deal with
8 people that would probably be parking in the
9 street while they're visiting and what have you,
10 which has been a concern in the past.
11 And the other thing is back -- on another
12 building like that -- if we build one building
13 like this, then everybody else in the
14 neighborhood can do the same thing.
15 Mr. Little would like to build one. He
16 don't have the footage that he needs because he
17 built his house too close to the creek to build
18 one behind his house.
19 But if one builds it, then everybody else
20 can build it and it creates a potential problem
21 for the homeowners association. And we have
22 restrictions. It's all in our covenants -- I
23 have them here -- that state that no building
24 can be converted into living space, no
25 commercial-type garages. Well, I don't call his
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
26
1 commercial, but it certainly has the look of
2 it.
3 And there's verbiage in the other people's
4 letters that's been sent to the board here that
5 explain their positions and some of the
6 drawbacks to them.
7 So I go back to my same position. I don't
8 think that it should be built with the
9 upstairs. It certainly does not improve my
10 property values. It may bring his up, but it
11 doesn't help mine. And anybody that comes to
12 look at my nice, used-to-be private, secluded
13 backyard will be looking at something completely
14 different. And if it's used at all, there will
15 be a lot of noise and nuisance that comes from
16 it, and all of it stares straight down at my
17 backyard and the house on the other side of it.
18 So that's all I have. Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
20 If you could stay right there, though.
21 Mr. Joost has a question for you.
22 MR. ROBERSON: Sure.
23 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 I'm sorry. I didn't get your name again.
25 MR. ROBERSON: Charles Roberson.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
27
1 MR. JOOST: Yeah, Mr. Roberson -- through
2 the Chair to Mr. Roberson. You said you're
3 president of the homeowners association?
4 MR. ROBERSON: No. I am the vice
5 president.
6 MR. JOOST: Vice president.
7 I guess my question would be, is there
8 anything specific in the homeowner association
9 rules that this gentleman would violate by
10 building such a structure?
11 MR. ROBERSON: Well, the developer who
12 wrote the covenants, he would not approve
13 Mr. Cannon's building back before the developer
14 turned it over to us because it didn't meet the
15 harmony of the neighborhood and what they had
16 envisioned.
17 I built my garage just per the covenants,
18 which is a single story with some storage above
19 it. It's not over 15 feet high. It gives me
20 everything I need. He wants something larger,
21 and I can come to grips with that.
22 MR. JOOST: I guess I'm just a little
23 confused. I mean, in order for him to build his
24 structure, doesn't he have to -- doesn't -- I
25 mean, I live in a restricted neighborhood.
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1 Don't you have to have the homeowners
2 association approval?
3 MR. ROBERSON: Correct. And this has not
4 been approved.
5 There is a footprint of the building that
6 was approved by Mr. Little, I believe, when he
7 was the president of the association, and it has
8 nothing to do with a second story, live-in-type
9 quarters. Nobody -- and this is contrary to
10 what was said in the other hearing.
11 Nobody in this neighborhood, especially
12 anybody that opposed it, was not shown any plans
13 of this building prior to so we could discuss
14 it.
15 Our homeowners association has been
16 dysfunctional for two years, and Mr. Little was
17 basically -- he was the president the first year
18 and our advisor the second year when all of this
19 stuff, I assume, was taking place. I have
20 requested to see the approval for the
21 architectural review and have been told it's in
22 our meeting minutes that -- there is none.
23 I have the footprint on his survey, but it
24 shows nothing about a second story. It doesn't
25 show that it's going to be a 14-foot-high
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
29
1 garage, which is a problem to some people, more
2 than me. The total height is 27 feet.
3 But the building has not been properly
4 approved because of our dysfunctional homeowners
5 association. That's why I stepped up, since I'm
6 working in town now, and volunteered and was
7 nominated to be the president.
8 MR. JOOST: Is there a letter on file from
9 the homeowners association opposing this?
10 MR. ROBERSON: I'm sorry. What was --
11 MR. JOOST: Is there a letter on file from
12 the homeowners association opposing this?
13 MR. ROBERSON: No. There was some people
14 in the neighborhood that wanted to start a
15 petition, but I'm not a lawyer. I didn't know
16 how to write one up and make it suitable, so I
17 didn't bother with it. I sit right --
18 MR. JOOST: I mean, you have a meeting and
19 approve it or you don't. I mean, you don't need
20 a petition.
21 MR. ROBERSON: Well, there was not an
22 architectural review board in the past.
23 Mr. Little and whoever else was in there with
24 him got together and approved this, basically a
25 single-story footprint. But in our meetings,
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30
1 there has been nothing discussed.
2 I am the chairman of the architectural
3 review board now, but I cannot get any records
4 or anything that shows that this building has
5 been properly approved. And that's what has
6 some of my other neighbors in an uproar, because
7 it has not been approved by the association.
8 So I don't know what else to say at that
9 point. If it's not approved by our association,
10 then why is it being allowed to be built?
11 Because there's a group that would like to see
12 it, a small group, and they evidently have
13 control. And I'm only one vote out of four, so
14 I can't do a lot, but I've requested to see the
15 documentation and it does not exist.
16 MR. JOOST: Okay.
17 MR. ROBERSON: I have a copy of what does
18 exist.
19 MR. JOOST: Thank you.
20 Mr. Chairman, I guess -- you'll have to
21 close the hearing and then, at that point, I'll
22 have some additional questions for Mr. Crofts --
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
24 MR. JOOST: -- or Mr. Kelly.
25 Thank you.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll come back to you.
2 Mr. Redman.
3 MR. REDMAN: Mr. Roberson, you -- sounds
4 like it -- your association is pretty well split
5 on -- you say several of them are in favor of it
6 and then some are not in favor of it.
7 MR. ROBERSON: Well --
8 MR. REDMAN: So it sounds like y'all may
9 have some split decision.
10 MR. ROBERSON: Well, from what I
11 understand, there's probably three that's
12 sitting here that is for it, and there's some
13 who don't care, other people that don't care
14 because they built some things smaller that they
15 don't want to have anybody asking questions
16 about what they've done. So they just say,
17 "Well, it don't bother me."
18 MR. REDMAN: So why didn't y'all take a
19 vote? Why did you not take a vote?
20 MR. ROBERSON: We've not had the
21 opportunity to do that.
22 MR. REDMAN: You had the opportunity to
23 come here, but you didn't have an opportunity to
24 take a vote as to -- you're talking about
25 several people at this time, so why wouldn't you
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
32
1 have an opportunity to take a vote?
2 MR. ROBERSON: Well, at our meetings -- it
3 has not been discussed at our meetings. And I
4 brought up the issue about the documentation and
5 was told there wasn't any, and that's as far as
6 it's gone.
7 People that I have talked to are -- who
8 have came and talked to me since I was on the
9 board now and said, you know, "We would expect
10 you to step up and do something about it."
11 There's a lot of people that don't feel
12 comfortable saying anything for a couple of
13 reasons, but . . .
14 MR. REDMAN: You mentioned noise that would
15 be coming from this building. What kind of
16 noise are you talking about that would be
17 disruptive or louder than what the noise
18 ordinance would allow for in any neighborhood?
19 MR. ROBERSON: Well, if you have all of
20 these cars that you're working on, there's not
21 very much that's quiet about that. You have
22 compressors, you have air tools for mechanican
23 [sic] work. If you have to beat a fender out
24 for body work, which is all part of restoring
25 cars, there's lots of noise from that.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Then you have to do your body work. You've
2 got to sand it, you've got to prime it, and at
3 some point painting it. Most of these things
4 are against City ordinances to begin with,
5 especially painting, and maybe that would be
6 sent out.
7 But when there's a place where you can do
8 that type of work, there is a lot of noise. And
9 when you've got three or four cars and you have
10 people that maybe help you work on those cars
11 who normally would bring some of their own stuff
12 to work on, it can turn into a Pep Boys garage
13 pretty quick.
14 I don't expect that to happen, but it has
15 the potential. And if somebody else -- if he
16 don't do it and somebody else ends up with that
17 property -- and you cannot predict when you have
18 to sell, then somebody is going to make that a
19 full-blown garage with lots of noise.
20 And then when the body work or mechanicing
21 [sic] is done and then you move upstairs to the
22 party room, if that's what it's being used for
23 at the time, and you've got pool tables, you've
24 got music.
25 There's -- on my side there will be three
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34
1 windows that's open straight into my yard. Kind
2 of hard -- I mean, not too many people get
3 together and have a good time and not make an
4 awful lot of noise, so I think there's a lot of
5 noise that could come from it.
6 MR. REDMAN: Well, we have ordinances that
7 would regulate the amount of noise that might
8 come from the work that he is doing. He says
9 it's a hobby, and that would be limited as
10 well. So, you know, this could be addressed by
11 ordinances if he is in violation of City
12 ordinance, whether it be music, working on cars
13 or whatever.
14 So, you know, those are all covered by
15 ordinances that we have that --
16 MR. ROBERSON: Well --
17 MR. REDMAN: -- regulate that.
18 MR. ROBERSON: I felt that I could live
19 with the garage part of it. If something is too
20 far out, I can complain about it. But when you
21 put potential living quarters -- and our
22 covenant says single-family only -- sooner or
23 later somebody is going to live in those
24 buildings and it will be nothing but an
25 expensive fight for us to try to do something
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
35
1 about it.
2 MR. REDMAN: Well, that's why we have these
3 ordinances to deal with that if they come
4 along.
5 Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Redman.
7 Mr. Jones has a question, and then we'll
8 have a rebuttal from the other side, and
9 Mr. Davis.
10 MR. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 Through the Chair to Mr. Roberson --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: You want to --
13 MR. JONES: I'm right here.
14 The homeowners association has not taken a
15 vote on this one way or the other --
16 MR. ROBERSON: No.
17 MR. JONES: -- is that correct?
18 Apparently there are no deed restrictions
19 prohibiting the gentleman from expanding or --
20 expanding an existing structure. There are no
21 deed restrictions or covenants that would
22 prevent him from doing what he wants to do?
23 MR. ROBERSON: Well, it's kind of hard to
24 understand the covenants, but there's -- in my
25 opinion, there's all sorts of restrictions. It
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 spells out that you can't have any potential
2 living quarters, you can't convert anything to
3 living quarters, and a number of different
4 things. It's in the covenants. And the people
5 that talked to me feel confident that this
6 building does not fit that at all.
7 There's not another two-story building like
8 that anywhere in Cape Coral.
9 MR. JONES: Okay. And you-all haven't --
10 the homeowners association has not met in this
11 year?
12 MR. ROBERSON: Yes, we have met recently,
13 but this has not been an issue.
14 I brought it up about the architectural
15 review and I needed to see the documentation,
16 and they say there is none. So if there is no
17 documentation on it, how is this building being
18 built if it hadn't been approved other than
19 ignoring what the covenant says and doing
20 exactly what you want to do?
21 There's several things that's been done.
22 There's things that's been done recently,
23 there's no architectural review. I just took
24 over the architectural review committee. Not a
25 word has been said to me, nothing has been sent
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
37
1 to me, so there's a disconnect there that we
2 have to deal with.
3 I spoken to our president, and he's not
4 here to step up. There's probably a good reason
5 for that, but I won't go into that.
6 MR. JONES: Okay.
7 MR. ROBERSON: Anyway, we have some serious
8 issues with our homeowners association is why
9 I'm saying, if you approve this second story,
10 it's going to create a lot of grief and expense
11 for the homeowners association that should have
12 legally-binding covenants that says you can't do
13 certain things as is being done.
14 MR. JONES: All right.
15 MR. ROBERSON: We shouldn't have to call
16 the City on a regular basis to try to stop
17 something because if you've got a violator,
18 they're going to violate whatever they want to.
19 That's just normal.
20 MR. JONES: All right. Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
22 Mr. Cannon, you have four minutes left to
23 rebut if you'd like.
24 MR. CANNON: Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: And we'll close the public
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 hearing, and we have one speaker.
2 (Mr. Cannon approaches the podium.)
3 MR. CANNON: When I began this project in
4 November, there was no active board. I had made
5 clear intentions when I bought my house and
6 built my house on the property -- we bought a
7 very large piece of property, and the house is
8 situated on the property to allow -- to have
9 access to a garage.
10 When I first submitted my plans to the
11 City, it was for a single-story building, but it
12 was too large apparently for the City zoning, it
13 being a little over 1,000 square feet because I
14 wanted to accommodate four cars.
15 When they rejected my application for that
16 particular building after I had paid for
17 engineering and all the cost involved with that,
18 I was told by the zoning -- by the people down
19 at zoning and planning and review that the
20 ordinance had changed in November and that I was
21 allowed to build as high as my primary
22 structure.
23 There is nothing in our ordinance that says
24 I cannot build as high as my primary structure.
25 It says I've got to abide by the laws of the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 City. All right. I do not plan to have a
2 living space up there other than the pool house
3 that the City gave me the caveat for.
4 I don't know why Mr. Robinson [sic] is
5 demeaning me personally. This is a personal
6 vendetta between him and me. He's saying that
7 I'm not going to be honest about this. That's
8 between us.
9 The reason why the board -- you don't have
10 a letter from the board because the board is not
11 involved. It was never brought up in any of the
12 meetings. They decided as a matter, when they
13 reformed the board and had to collect two years
14 worth of dues from the community, that the
15 past -- things that were done in the past,
16 before the board convened in April, were going
17 to be set aside.
18 Mr. Robinson joined the board with the
19 express purpose of denying me my right to
20 improve my property.
21 Now, he says the Cape only -- this only
22 affects our street, the Cape. When I paid to
23 have my variance presented to the board, I had
24 to send letters to properties within 350 feet,
25 which includes houses in Cape Coral and the Cape
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 itself, so it includes the Cape itself.
2 And I do have -- there are large utility
3 structures within that 350 feet area made of
4 metal that do not fit the nature of the
5 neighborhood that have been allowed to be
6 built. And because they do not directly affect
7 his line of sight, he chooses to ignore them.
8 Now, I'm happy to be subject to any rules
9 or variations the committee wants to put on me.
10 I am subject to all the laws of Jacksonville and
11 I abide by them as a matter of my profession and
12 my personal sense of pride.
13 And that's my rebuttal.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 Mr. Davis, do you have a question for this
16 gentleman or outside of the public hearing?
17 MR. DAVIS: Maybe I could have legal
18 counsel direct me so we don't have to go through
19 any extra stuff.
20 If there were suggestions on conditions,
21 how do I address that?
22 MS. ELLER: Through the Chair to
23 Councilmember Davis, the posture that you're in
24 is an ordinance -- or excuse me, a resolution
25 that is a neutral resolution, so the committee
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 would have to amend the resolution to either
2 attach a recommendation to grant the appeal or
3 deny the appeal.
4 As part of that, you can include
5 conditions. So if you wanted to allow the
6 structure to be built subject to certain
7 conditions, you would deny the appeal, because
8 the appeal was filed by the neighbor, subject to
9 the following conditions and include all of
10 those conditions.
11 If you want to prohibit the structure, you
12 do the opposite.
13 MR. DAVIS: That would be done after this
14 time?
15 MS. ELLER: Correct. That would be part of
16 an amendment offered by a committee member.
17 MR. DAVIS: Okay. Then I'll hold my
18 comments until we're back in committee.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 Mr. Joost.
21 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 To the gentleman sitting down there. I'm
23 sorry, I can't remember your name as well,
24 that -- you testified in favor.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Little.
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1 (Mr. Little approaches the podium.)
2 MR. JOOST: You said you're also a member
3 of the homeowners association?
4 MR. LITTLE: Sir, I'm on the board of
5 directors. I was on the original board that
6 took over from the developer when he submitted
7 his plans. At the time, there was no, I guess,
8 City ordinance on two-story garages. We did
9 approve. It was myself and the
10 secretary/treasurer of the board because nobody
11 else in the association would join the board.
12 There was two of us.
13 We did approve the garage floor plan as
14 submitted to the City the first time. And, like
15 I said, the reason he's here is for an appeal
16 for that second story for the zoning variance.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, if you could slow down
18 just a little bit because our stenographer --
19 MR. LITTLE: I have no reason to deny a
20 zoning variance because it's in our covenants
21 and deed restrictions, it does not address the
22 height, just the -- that the outparcel is
23 supposed to be matching the building itself, and
24 that's the only thing in our covenants and
25 restrictions that states anything.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. JOOST: Is there -- do you have any
2 written record where the homeowners approved the
3 original plan?
4 MR. LITTLE: Yes. He has a copy of it
5 himself.
6 MR. JOOST: Okay. We may want to have that
7 submitted for the record.
8 Thank you. That answers my question.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
10 MR. REDMAN: Mr. Cannon.
11 MR. CANNON: Yes.
12 (Mr. Cannon approaches the podium.)
13 MR. REDMAN: The subject of noise that was
14 brought up, how much noise would you be making
15 working on these as a -- you say this is a
16 hobby?
17 MR. CANNON: Yes, sir.
18 MR. REDMAN: You would be doing mechanical
19 work there, body work?
20 MR. CANNON: As much work as anybody with a
21 garage would do on a car in a home shop. I'm
22 not putting in a paint booth. I'm doing minor
23 maintenance and work involved with maintaining
24 an old car.
25 I have facilities and contacts with body
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 shops and machine shops where I do my work
2 off-site. I don't believe Mr. Robertson [sic]
3 has ever seen me do anything more than maybe
4 change oil at my house. He has the potential to
5 do the same work that I would have. He has a
6 detached garage, and it seems to me like he
7 wants to deny me the facility that he, himself,
8 maintains.
9 MR. REDMAN: Okay. You realize there are
10 noise ordinances to prohibit a certain amount of
11 noise in a neighborhood?
12 MR. CANNON: Yes, sir. It would be no more
13 noise than mowing your yard.
14 MR. REDMAN: All right. Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost.
16 MR. JOOST: I'm sorry. I have one more
17 question for the gentleman that --
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Roberson?
19 MR. JOOST: Thank you.
20 (Mr. Little approaches the podium.)
21 MR. JOOST: Also, is it your recollection
22 being on the homeowners association that they
23 met -- I guess it was dysfunctional for a while
24 and, therefore, when it reconvened what had been
25 done in the past was essentially grandfathered
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 in?
2 MR. LITTLE: The first year, take over from
3 the association, like I said, it was myself and
4 one other gentleman on the board. The following
5 year we both resigned because we had no support
6 from anybody in the neighborhood whatsoever.
7 And they chose, I think, three other people to
8 run for the board.
9 That board was completely dysfunctional,
10 had no communication whatsoever. Nothing done,
11 no records kept or anything. So when that term
12 was up, I was asked by one certain member of the
13 board, who is now our president, if he was to
14 run for the board if I would help them out in
15 any way, shape, or form whatsoever. I said I'll
16 be more than happy to consult. I am a certified
17 community association manager. I know the
18 laws.
19 I did speak with him and he asked me if I
20 would get on the board, as a matter of fact,
21 which I did.
22 MR. JOOST: So it's your recollection that
23 they -- once the board reconvened and became
24 functional again, that what had happened during
25 essentially this dysfunctional period would be
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 grandfathered in? In other words --
2 MR. LITTLE: Not necessarily grandfathered
3 in. What our covenants do state is that
4 anything that's over a 30-day period that has
5 not been approved or disapproved is hereby
6 approved based on the fact that it's been done.
7 And being the fact there was no action taken for
8 a year, some things have gone up. Some sheds
9 have gone up, some fences have gone up.
10 We've taken the stance now that we actually
11 appointed an architectural review committee
12 because people stood up and said, I want to be
13 there. So we did appoint the committee. Now we
14 have a functional board and we're trying to keep
15 it that way.
16 However, there's not been one single
17 written request by anybody in the association to
18 deny his building this building.
19 MR. JOOST: All right. Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other speakers,
21 we'll close the public hearing.
22 Mr. Davis.
23 MR. DAVIS: I guess I'd like to make a
24 couple of comments and then maybe a suggestion.
25 Number one, since I've been on the council
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
47
1 we've never gotten involved with homeowners
2 association squabbles, and I think we need to
3 stay -- keep government out of local
4 neighborhood politics as much as possible. I
5 can promise you that, especially on the Westside
6 we've tried to do that.
7 Number two, I don't understand the noise
8 argument because basically, like Councilman
9 Redman said, that we have to abide by noise
10 maximum laws. And it doesn't matter if you have
11 a detached garage or a regular garage, you have
12 to abide by those laws, and I don't think that
13 that has any effect on what we would decide here
14 today.
15 Three, I would like to make sure that this
16 building is substantially similar to what's in
17 the neighborhood. I think that's really
18 important, that you wouldn't have an aluminum
19 building or something along those lines.
20 And I don't know if -- you know, I could
21 probably go either way, but a suggestion would
22 be that the facade would be similar to the
23 facade of the front of the house. I think that
24 that, you know, could be a suggestion that would
25 be made.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 And number four, I don't know what the
2 side yard setback is, and I was going to ask the
3 Planning Department if they've had any
4 discussions with the applicant on the side yard
5 setback.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I do need somebody to move
7 the bill.
8 MR. DAVIS: I make a motion to move to deny
9 the appeal --
10 MR. JOOST: Second.
11 MR. DAVIS: -- with potential
12 recommendations, I guess.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you want to respond,
14 Mr. Kelly?
15 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
16 That actually came up during the Planning
17 Commission meeting, and the required setback for
18 the RLD-90 district for the side yard is a
19 5-foot side yard.
20 This structure is actually three times
21 further. It's 15 feet, I believe, at the
22 closest point to the property line, so it's well
23 exceeding the required setbacks.
24 MR. DAVIS: I guess -- can I ask the
25 homeowner a question at this point?
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1 MS. ELLER: (Nods head.)
2 MR. DAVIS: Sir, do you mind coming back
3 up?
4 MR. CANNON: (Complies.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: And we have a motion and a
6 second.
7 MR. DAVIS: You already have the motion and
8 the second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
10 And I think Mr. Davis is getting ready to
11 propose an amendment to the amendment.
12 MR. DAVIS: Yeah.
13 You've got a pretty large lot?
14 MR. CANNON: Yes.
15 MR. DAVIS: Okay. I think a lot of the
16 major heartburn of your neighbor is having a
17 two-story building right next to his piece of
18 property looking in his backyard. Okay?
19 Now, whether that's legal or you have the
20 right to do that, that's, I guess, what we're
21 here to talk about, but my question to you is --
22 you've got a 15-foot buffer basically between
23 his property and yours.
24 Stop me if I'm going the wrong direction.
25 MS. ELLER: (Inaudible.)
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1 MR. DAVIS: Is your foundation already
2 poured?
3 MR. CANNON: Yes. I received permitting
4 and --
5 MR. DAVIS: Okay. You don't have to --
6 MR. CANNON: Yes, sir.
7 MR. DAVIS: Thank you very much.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Joost.
9 MR. JOOST: I guess -- through the Chair
10 to, I guess, Mr. Davis. No, I couldn't agree
11 more, we don't want to get involved in homeowner
12 associations. My line of questioning was just
13 more out of curiosity, why hadn't the homeowners
14 association even addressed it, you know, before
15 it got to us.
16 And I agree, I'm not going to hold him
17 responsible for a dysfunctional homeowners
18 association. That's their problem, not ours.
19 And the fact they don't even have a letter of
20 opposition on file, again, that's their problem,
21 not ours. I was just curious as to how the
22 process happened, and so I wholeheartedly agree,
23 and that's why I believe we should move to deny.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jones.
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1 MR. JONES: Through the Chair, I didn't
2 know -- following up on Mr. Davis' thought, I
3 think the real issue is the fact that he'll be
4 able to see in the backyard.
5 Can we require some tree buffering
6 between -- within that 15 foot --
7 MR. DAVIS: There's trees already there.
8 MR. JONES: Trees already there?
9 MR. DAVIS: (Off the microphone.)
10 MR. JONES: Okay.
11 Sean -- I mean Mr. Kelly.
12 MR. KELLY: Just to kind of facilitate the
13 discussion a little bit, I think potentially for
14 what you're trying to achieve, through a
15 condition, perhaps, maybe the windows could be
16 completely opaque, like the glass block type of
17 thing where you don't see completely through it,
18 but it still allows light into the structure, or
19 they could be removed in some fashion as well on
20 that side facing the neighbor.
21 MR. JONES: Okay. In your review, your
22 recommendation was to approve it as is?
23 MR. KELLY: It was an approval with the
24 condition essentially to prohibit any
25 residential use of the second story or any
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 residential use of the structure itself.
2 MR. JONES: Okay. Because if they did
3 that, that would make it a multifamily.
4 MR. KELLY: Correct. It would be another
5 dwelling unit on the property.
6 MR. JONES: Okay. All right. Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Davis.
8 MR. DAVIS: I would like to, I guess, make
9 a recommendation. That would be to have the --
10 the last thing you want to do is -- if he
11 already has the building engineered and you
12 start changing the structure of the building, as
13 far as removing windows and things along those
14 lines, that's going to add additional cost. I
15 don't know what the cost is to the block
16 windows, but I know that you can purchase other
17 windows that allow -- allow the light in, but,
18 you know, you can't see the -- you know, the
19 clarity looking out.
20 So, I mean, I would recommend that that's
21 something that we add to it on the second story,
22 as an amendment, looking over the neighbor's
23 yard.
24 MR. JONES: I second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 a second on the amendment.
2 MR. DAVIS: Can I clarify that?
3 They would be the same type of engineered
4 windows. The panes would just be different.
5 MR. JOOST: Three by fives or whatever he
6 has. You just can't see in.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Ms. Eller.
8 MS. ELLER: To the committee, it's my
9 understanding from the discussion that there are
10 several different conditions that have been
11 offered. I'll repeat those to you and then
12 you-all can determine which ones to include on
13 this part of your amendment.
14 First, to incorporate into your amendment
15 the previous restriction offered by the Planning
16 Commission and the Planning Department, which is
17 that the structure shall not be used as a
18 residence.
19 Second, that the windows on the -- my
20 calculation is the southern property line, the
21 way that the property is oriented and the
22 location of the structure adjacent to
23 Mr. Roberson's property, the windows that face
24 that property line would be opaque.
25 And then third, there was an offer that the
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1 structure itself be architecturally similar to
2 the primary structure. It currently is proposed
3 to be vinyl siding, so I would offer up the
4 condition that the front would match the front
5 of the house, which is brick or perhaps brick
6 stamp, but I don't know that we have any
7 concession from the property owner on those
8 conditions, so my recommendation would be to
9 pull him up and ask him if he can see -- agree
10 to those conditions.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. First, Mr. Davis, is
12 that accurate? Is that what you wanted?
13 MR. DAVIS: I'm fine with that.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Cannon, could you
15 come up and let us know if you're okay with
16 those?
17 (Mr. Cannon approaches the podium.)
18 MR. CANNON: I am okay with opaquing the
19 windows on the side.
20 Let it be noted that Mr. Robinson [sic] has
21 never spoken directly to me about this matter.
22 I've offered -- I've offered to delete the
23 windows from the side of the building when the
24 engineering was in place.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you okay with those
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1 conditions, though?
2 MR. CANNON: The brick front, the slab is
3 not poured to facilitate a brick front because
4 when I received approval, it was for a fully
5 vinyl building. I do not have a brick ledge.
6 And, plus, the cost of the brick would be
7 approximately $15,000 added to the $40,000 price
8 tag of the garage.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
10 MR. DAVIS: I would just say that if it's
11 not engineered for a brick facade, it would be
12 very -- it could be very expensive to go
13 backwards at this point, so I would remove that
14 from the recommendation and just stick with the
15 window -- opaque windows.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: And wasn't there a third
17 part to it, Ms. Eller?
18 MS. ELLER: It's my understanding it would
19 be -- it cannot be used as a residential
20 structure, windows along that southern property
21 line shall be opaque, and that the building
22 shall be architecturally similar to the primary
23 structure, but permitted that it can be all
24 vinyl siding.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Are you okay with
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1 that?
2 MR. CANNON: Yes, sir.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
4 MR. JOOST: I have a question.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: We have Mr. Joost on the
6 amendment to the amendment.
7 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 I was just curious, on your drawing here it
9 says, "Brick to match existing house, both sides
10 of garage door." What --
11 MR. CANNON: That was before I received --
12 we changed the engineering. And when I changed
13 the second story because the brick was going to
14 be prohibited [sic] and because it's set so far
15 back from the street, behind a yard fence with a
16 gate, it's not visible from the road.
17 MR. JOOST: I see. Okay.
18 Well, that's between you and the homeowners
19 association, then. I have no problem with the
20 conditions.
21 Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are on the
23 amendment to the amend- -- the Davis amendment.
24 All in favor signify by saying aye.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So that passes.
4 MR. JONES: Move the bill as amended.
5 MR. JOOST: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have a
7 motion --
8 MR. JOOST: I move to deny as amended, I
9 guess.
10 (Inaudible discussion.)
11 MS. ELLER: To the committee, by virtue of
12 the amendment, you've attached a recommendation
13 that the appeal is denied and that the structure
14 may be constructed subject to three conditions.
15 So if you support that recommendation, you
16 can vote the green button because by virtue of
17 your amendment, you've attached a recommendation
18 identifying those individual recommendations.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have a motion
20 and a second.
21 Please open the ballot.
22 (Committee ballot opened.)
23 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Please close the ballot and
5 record the vote.
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 moved to deny the appeal.
10 And let me -- with the conditions.
11 Let me take a pause here and welcome our --
12 we have some Boy Scouts in the audience. If you
13 guys could have somebody stand up.
14 What troop are you from and what part of
15 town?
16 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: We're from Troop 541 on
18 the Westside, over by Old Middleburg.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming, coming
20 down here to see our wheels of government in
21 motion.
22 MR. DAVIS: I knew there were some fine
23 looking young men out there.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Well behaved.
25 MR. JONES: Are you registered to vote
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1 yet? I think Mr. Daniels [sic] --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. A few years down
3 the road for that, but . . .
4 Let's move on. Item 21, 2009-469. We'll
5 open the public hearing.
6 We have one speaker, Chris Wrenn.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Wrenn, if you could give
9 us your name and address for the record.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Chris Wrenn, 1216
11 Lakewood Road.
12 I'm the president of the Colonial Manor
13 Community Association.
14 I'll be real brief. I'm just going to urge
15 you-all to vote to approve this motion.
16 I can make the same statement with -469
17 and -470.
18 Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
20 All right. Seeing no further speakers, we
21 will close the public hearing on that.
22 MR. DAVIS: Move the bill.
23 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
25 on 2009-469.
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1 If you could open the ballot.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 approved -469.
15 Page 8. 2009-470. We'll open the public
16 hearing. We don't have any speakers on that, so
17 we'll close the public hearing.
18 Can I have a motion on the bill?
19 MR. JONES: Move approval.
20 MR. JOOST: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a second
22 to approve the bill.
23 Open the ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. JONES: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. DAVIS: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
7 the vote.
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
11 approved -470.
12 Item 23, 2009-494, is second -- and -495
13 and -500 are also read second and rerefer.
14 And that is the end of our agenda as far as
15 I know.
16 Thank you all for your patience, and we are
17 adjourned.
18 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
19 6:10 p.m.)
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Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 STATE OF
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 26th day of July, 2009.
11
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14 Diane M. Tropia
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Diane M.
Tropia,