1 CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, April 7, 2009,
7 commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers,
8 1st Floor,
9 Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State of
10
11
12 PRESENT:
13 ART GRAHAM, Chair.
STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.
14 REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.
JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.
15 RAY HOLT, Committee Member.
JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
16 DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
17
ALSO PRESENT:
18
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
19 SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
20 FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
21 JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
22
- - -
23
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 April 7, 2009 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, everybody.
5 Let the record show it is Tuesday, April
6 the 7th. It is about 5:05, according to my cell
7 phone, and this is the Land Use and Zoning
8 Committee meeting.
9 If we can start over here on the right with
10 Mr. Crofts, let's introduce ourselves.
11 MR. CROFTS: John Crofts, Planning and
12 Development Department.
13 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
14 Development.
15 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
16 Development.
17 MS. ELLER: Shannon Eller, General
18 Counsel's Office.
19 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, Council
20 District 4.
21 DR. GAFFNEY: Councilman Gaffney,
22 District 7.
23 MR. HOLT: Ray Holt, District 11.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm Art Graham,
25 District 13.
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 MR. JOOST: Stephen Joost, Group 3
2 at-large.
3 MR. BROWN: Reginald Brown, District 10.
4 MR. WEBB: Councilman Jack Webb,
5 District 6.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: And that is all of us.
7 All right. Well, we have our quorum, so
8 let's get started.
9 Top of page 2. 2005-1228 is deferred.
10 2006-24 is deferred. 2006-658 is deferred.
11 I want to address these three bills. There
12 is a new council ordinance that's out there that
13 any bill that's on our agenda for a two-year
14 period of time will basically be removed from
15 our agenda. So if you have anything to do with
16 number 1, number 2, number 3 on the agenda, this
17 is coming up -- I believe the next LUZ meeting
18 will be the last LUZ agenda meeting -- I'm
19 sorry -- LUZ Committee meeting to deal with
20 these bills. If you don't deal with them at
21 that time, they will just be removed.
22 So I just want to give you guys a warning
23 on those two -- I'm sorry, those three bills.
24 Top of page 3. 2008-517.
25 MR. WEBB: Move to withdraw.
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 MR. JOOST: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
3 to withdraw.
4 Any discussion on the withdrawal?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
7 ballot.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
12 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
18 the vote
19 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
21 withdrawn -517.
22 2008-541, 2008-542 are both deferred.
23 Top of page 4.
24 MR. JOOST: Move the bill -- move the
25 amendment.
Diane M.
Tropia,
5
1 THE CHAIRMAN: -546. We have a public
2 hearing.
3 We'll open that public hearing.
4 Hilton Meadows.
5 (Mr. Meadows approaches the podium.)
6 MR. MEADOWS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 My name is Hilton T. Meadows. My address
8 is
9 We're land development architects and
10 planners.
11 We're an advocate for this project and we
12 represent the owner. I think it's been through
13 a number of hearings here, it's been through the
14 Planning Commission two or three times, and
15 we've had two or three public meetings with
16 those in the neighborhood area.
17 I believe Mr. Kelly has an amendment that
18 we're receptive to if -- Mr. Chairman, if I
19 could ask Mr. Kelly to please read that
20 amendment into the record, then we're receptive
21 to that amendment.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, we'll do it
23 after we close the public hearing.
24 MR. MEADOWS: All right, sir.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have anything else to
Diane M.
Tropia,
6
1 add?
2 MR. MEADOWS: No, unless you have some
3 questions.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
5 MR. MEADOWS: Thank you very much.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Just hold tight, sir.
7 We will close the public hearing.
8 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
9 MR. JOOST: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
11 and seconded.
12 Can we hear the amendment, please.
13 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, I think that --
14 I've got the amendment. I'll read it into the
15 record.
16 There are seven conditions, and they are as
17 follows:
18 "The development shall be subject to the
19 original legal description dated December 3rd,
20 2008."
21 Number 2, "The development shall be subject
22 to the original written description dated
23 January 7th, 2009."
24 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
25 to the original site plan dated January 6th,
Diane M.
Tropia,
7
1 2009."
2 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
3 to the review and approval of the Development
4 Services Division memorandum dated January 29,
5 2009, or as otherwise approved by the Planning
6 and Development Department."
7 Condition number 5, "The entrance on
8
9 in/right out or right in only, subject to the
10 review and approval of the Development Services
11 Division."
12 Number 6, "Medical clinics shall be limited
13 to one doctor and one physician's assistant.
14 "The following uses are prohibited: banks,
15 loan companies and similar financial
16 institutions such as check cashing or Payday
17 loans, sale of food or drugs, delicatessens,
18 bake shops, restaurants, filling stations, and
19 retail outlets for the sale of used items,
20 retail sale of all alcohol for on-premises or
21 off-premises consumption."
22 Seventh and finally, "The visible exterior
23 finishes of any building shall be a combination
24 of brick, masonry, stucco, glass, wood or
25 metal.
Diane M.
Tropia,
8
1 "The code-compliant roof shall be pitched
2 with combined guttering and may be constructed
3 of metal.
4 "The base of the building on the south and
5 east side shall be masonry, block, brick, vinyl
6 or stucco, at least four feet in height.
7 "There shall be an extended personal front
8 door with covered portal stoop.
9 "Outdoor air conditioning units shall be
10 screened.
11 "The colors of the building shall be warm
12 earth tones, high intensity or pastel colors,
13 and scrambled or blotched patterns are
14 prohibited.
15 "The Planning and Development Department
16 shall review and approve architectural materials
17 at the time of verification of substantial
18 compliance."
19 That's it.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: And a partridge in a pear
21 tree.
22 Sir, did you get all that?
23 MR. MEADOWS: I think I got all that, sir.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: And you are agreeable with
25 all that?
Diane M.
Tropia,
9
1 MR. MEADOWS: Yes, we have. We've
2 negotiated that position.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any discussion on the
4 amendment?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor of the
7 amendment signify by saying aye.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
12 approved the amendment.
13 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
14 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
16 seconded as amended.
17 Any discussion on the bill?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
25 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
10
1 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
4 (Committee ballot closed.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
9 finally approved 2008-546.
10 -549 is deferred. -550 is deferred.
11 Top of page 5. 2008-552. We have no
12 speakers, so we will open that public hearing.
13 Is this the bill that we're supposed to
14 defer?
15 (Inaudible discussion.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, then we will continue
17 that public hearing --
18 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you want to speak?
20 MR. HARDEN: Well, I was just going to tell
21 you, I spoke with Ms. Lee, and -- I thought she
22 was going to be here, but she did ask to defer
23 it for two weeks, and I'm agreeable to that.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
25 MR. HARDEN: Doing graciously what I have
Diane M.
Tropia,
11
1 to do anyway.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I will continue that public
3 hearing and take no further action.
4 Number 11, 2008-880, is deferred. 2008-970
5 is deferred.
6 Top of page 6. 2008-1071. We will open
7 the public hearing.
8 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
9 public hearing and take no further action.
10 2009-12 is deferred.
11 2009-29. We'll open the public hearing.
12 We have a couple of speakers.
13 (Mr. Matovina approaches the podium.)
14 MR. MATOVINA: Greg Matovina, 2955 Hartley
15 Road, representing the applicant.
16 This proposal has been before you before
17 and we've come back again because of some
18 opposition that --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Greg, hold on.
20 MR. MATOVINA: I'm sorry. Sorry,
21 Councilman.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Would you like to go after
23 everybody speaks or do you want to start off?
24 MR. MATOVINA: Well, I'd like to go after.
25 I was going to make a presentation now and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
12
1 come back --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll just let you --
3 because there are some people speaking against,
4 so I'd much rather you go at the end --
5 MR. MATOVINA: Okay.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: -- so you can bring us up to
7 speed.
8 MR. MATOVINA: Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks.
10 Shannon Nazworth.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's okay. I support.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record show that she
13 supports it.
14 Mack Bissette.
15 If you're here to speak on this bill,
16 please come up forward. There's plenty of room
17 on the front seat -- I mean the front row.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mack Bissette, 1223
20 Hubbard Street, in the Springfield area.
21 I'm just -- I would like to just talk about
22 the stories concerning this facility. I know it
23 may not be in LUZ purview, but it -- it just
24 definitely needs to be heard.
25 As I understand it -- I talked to
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
13
1 Ms. Nazworth, and we had a great conversation.
2 She's very intelligent, from Boston. She told
3 me that this is to help families. It's not
4 homeless people and that type of thing.
5 I also went to a ULI meeting, Urban Land
6 Institute. It's very -- think tank deal. She
7 was a panelist at that meeting, and she --
8 all -- every word was about homeless and helping
9 the homeless and all that. It was totally
10 contrary to the meeting -- private meeting I had
11 with her where she was going to help families,
12 but in a public forum, it was all about the
13 homeless, we got to help the homeless, and all
14 that. So that kind of changed my ideas about
15 this facility.
16 I just want to briefly hit a -- some
17 stories. Downtown and Springfield continue to
18 be affected by the Homeless Coalition, free
19 food, free housing, free everything. Every
20 economist will tell you, anything that's free
21 will be abused. Red snapper, deer, whatever.
22 If it's free, it's going to be abused. Okay?
23 So downtown has an issue, and this is close
24 to downtown, and I just would like that to be
25 known.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
14
1 Ms. Nazworth has voted for this. I talked
2 to Ms. Nazworth. I said, listen, I'm -- you're
3 building a fine facility. It's $125,000 an
4 apartment to build this thing. Elkins has to
5 build it. I know it would cost 125,000 to build
6 it. She's going to rent it for $300 a month.
7 Fine. No developer can rent that for $300 a
8 month, no way. I don't understand it.
9 The problem is -- I've seen some other good
10 developments built, Trinity. Trinity for the
11 women downtown, when I go there, it's a fine
12 facility. But when I look across the street, I
13 see nothing but predators, trash. It just
14 attracts people who abuse the free services, and
15 I think that this potentially has that -- that
16 taste.
17 Now, why do the homeless come to
18 Jacksonville? Why do they come? Because
19 everything's free. Why wouldn't they come
20 here?
21 Last week I was at a convenience store at
22 3rd at Main. A woman in distress came. She
23 said -- I said, "Where are you from?" She said,
24 "I'm from South Georgia." "Well why are you
25 here?" "Well, my husband beat me up" -- in
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
15
1 south Georgia -- "so I had to leave."
2 My time is up.
3 But any -- the bottom line is they come --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mack, your time is --
5 MR. BISSETTE: -- because it's free.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
7 Joanne Tredenick.
8 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
10 Joanne Tredenick, 1206 Hubbard Street, also
11 in the Springfield historic district.
12 My concerns with this project have to do
13 with the -- really the situation of housing in
14 Jacksonville right now and how this project is
15 against what the City is trying to do to
16 progress.
17 One of the things that we're interested in
18 is having houses occupied. We know that
19 currently 15 to 20 percent -- or 15 to
20 25 percent of low cost rental housing is
21 currently vacant, so why would we be building
22 more when we have a glut of existing properties
23 that are going vacant?
24 The City, I think, is concerned about the
25 number of foreclosures and empty properties in
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
16
1 neighborhoods.
2 This is a problem for neighborhoods, so why
3 would we be building more?
4 I heard the mayor the other day talk about
5 sustainability, that that's going to be one of
6 the number one objectives of our city
7 government. Well, part of sustainable living is
8 using the resources you have, not sending them
9 off to the dump or creating new things that you
10 don't need. So why don't we use the resources
11 we have?
12 In terms of the economic development
13 downtown, this project is at odds with it. We
14 are trying to create an economically-integrated
15 community in Springfield. We don't have that.
16 The majority of what we have is low-income
17 housing.
18 If we're going to have a viable downtown,
19 which I think the City is spending a lot of
20 money and a lot of effort trying to create,
21 you've got to have viable neighborhoods downtown
22 and viable neighborhoods surrounding downtown.
23 We can't attract businesses to our
24 community if we have a majority of low-income
25 people. I don't have anything against
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
17
1 low-income people. In fact, there are
2 low-income projects all around my house, but
3 we've got to have enough economic wherewithal to
4 support commercial development in our community.
5 So, for this reason, I think this is the
6 wrong project at the wrong time in the wrong
7 place.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Lisa Simon.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I'm Lisa Simon, 1344
13 Silver Street, Springfield historic district.
14 Ability Housing's mission of helping
15 homeless persons transition to home residency is
16 good and my heart hurts for families facing dire
17 economic circumstances, but I vehemently oppose
18 this project for three reasons, which I'll give
19 and then elaborate on as briefly as possible.
20 Options for providing this type of housing
21 are abundant elsewhere in Jacksonville. This
22 project economically segregates families and
23 does not lead to a permanent solution to their
24 housing problems.
25 Springfield is on its way to revitalization
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
18
1 and economic viability, and this project
2 inhibits that progress.
3 Number one reason: Options for providing
4 this type of housing are abundant elsewhere in
5 Jacksonville, which Joanne touched on. We're in
6 the middle of a housing crisis.
7 We have home developers who are renting out
8 their properties as HUD housing in gated
9 communities. We've got low-income housing
10 everywhere.
11 Myself, along with others, moved into
12 Springfield on the promise from the City that we
13 were moving forward with our 2001 overlay, which
14 we've spent money, we've invested to keep --
15 continuing to be overburdened with these
16 homeless organizations, social service
17 providers, which we bear the brunt of the
18 majority in the city of Jacksonville.
19 Does it make sense to run off and build new
20 low-cost units? I don't -- I think the logical
21 answer to this is no.
22 Second item, economic segregation of
23 families is not a long-term solution. Just last
24 week on the 18th, CEOs for Cities released the
25 latest report in its City Vital series, which I
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
19
1 have here.
2 For those of you not familiar with the
3 organization, CEOs for Cities is a national
4 think tank and network of urban leaders. Their
5 latest report titled City Vitals, Economic
6 Integration, explores the need for economic
7 integration in cities and ways to increase it,
8 which I feel we need to do in Jacksonville.
9 We continue to overburden downtown and the
10 urban core with these social services, which is
11 not allowing us to move forward to a top-tier
12 city.
13 There's been progress against racial
14 segregation in cities, but the countertrend of
15 economic segregation has been increasing and
16 will undercut this progress.
17 A quote, "A growing body of research shows
18 segregation by income has harmful effects on
19 low-income people, and the poor people who live
20 in mixed-income areas do better than poor people
21 who live in areas of concentrated poverty."
22 This addresses another issue. I drove the
23 site myself. We continue to put homeless
24 people, social services in the urban core,
25 downtown, Springfield. There's nowhere for
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
20
1 these people to work.
2 We keep hearing that they have the bus
3 system, they can travel. What makes sense to
4 me, to live in the areas where you have abundant
5 jobs available. I mean, where are people going
6 to work downtown? They're not going to work at
7 LaVilla School of the Arts and they're not going
8 to work at a law office or a bank.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, where are those
10 places in this county where there's an abundance
11 of jobs?
12 MS. SIMON: Anywhere in the suburbs
13 where -- where are low-income people going to
14 work? They're not going to work at a law
15 office. They're not going to work at a bank.
16 They need to work in re- -- there's retail.
17 Anywhere --
18 We don't have services in the urban core to
19 frequent, so how are people going to get jobs?
20 We have to leave the area to do our shopping and
21 gain our services, so there's nowhere for people
22 to work.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, where is -- I'll still
24 give you your 15 seconds. I just had to ask you
25 the question.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
21
1 You made it sound like there's a place
2 within the county that there's an abundance of
3 jobs.
4 MS. SIMON: Anywhere where there are jo- --
5 look at downtown. When I moved to
6 Jacksonville -- I moved here in 1985 from
7 New Orleans.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: But, ma'am, where is that
9 place?
10 MS. SIMON: All over in the suburbs,
11 where -- where people can be integrated more --
12 a fair -- more fair economic basis, jobs
13 available. There aren't jobs downtown for
14 entry-level positions.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You still have your
16 15 seconds. I didn't mean to cut you off.
17 Are you done?
18 MS. SIMON: I'd also just like to say that
19 there are many people in Springfield who are
20 very upset with this issue. They've come
21 before. It's hard for people to get off.
22 Constantly Springfield is overburdened.
23 We -- most people have maybe one big fight in
24 their lifetime. We have a couple every year,
25 and people just can't get away from children and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
22
1 jobs to come down here and keep speaking on
2 these issues, but we would just like the rest of
3 Jacksonville to bear the brunt, you know, help
4 us. We can't bear the weight of all of the city
5 social services in our one small area.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
8 Mr. Matovina.
9 (Mr. Matovina approaches the podium.)
10 MR. MATOVINA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
11 straightening me out. I'm a little rusty. I
12 haven't been here in a while.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: You're going to have to give
14 your name and address again.
15 MR. MATOVINA: Greg Matovina, 2955 Hartley
16 Road.
17 The first thing I want to do is point out
18 to you the location of this facility. It's
19 located up against I-95, just west of the former
20 Blodgett Homes area there, and just north of the
21 ARC facility right there. It's not immediately
22 adjacent to any homes. It's immediately
23 adjacent to the ARC office building there, to
24 the State office building across the street, and
25 then a little further to the northeast you have
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
23
1 the HabiJax development that was done, you know,
2 the 101 homes in 17 days sometime ago, but
3 that's quite a distance away actually.
4 This area is over a quarter of a mile
5 outside of the SPAR district, based on our
6 measurement, from their web site of where their
7 district is. And that's as the crow flies.
8 That's not driving on the streets.
9 The facility itself is 48 apartments, two-
10 and three-bedroom apartments. This is not a
11 facility like Trinity Rescue Mission. This is a
12 facility for families that either have become
13 homeless and now need a home at much lower rent
14 than what they could afford in the free market
15 or it's for families that are in danger of
16 becoming homeless. Maybe they lost their job
17 and their savings are limited.
18 It's not short-term stays. It's not
19 overnight stays. It's anywhere from three
20 months to maybe a year stay in here while they
21 kind of get their job back together again and
22 their life back together again. So it's not
23 your typical homeless situation like we might
24 have at City Rescue Mission or Trinity.
25 Each apartment has its own kitchen.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
24
1 There's no food served here to -- you know, no
2 food lines for people to come in off the street
3 to get lunch.
4 Again, this is a transitional housing
5 facility for people who have become homeless or
6 in danger of becoming homeless.
7 Let's see what else I can address.
8 Close to downtown. We are going to spend
9 $125,000 per apartment.
10 The elevation of the facility will fit in
11 very nicely with what's generally been proposed
12 in Brooklyn. And I have copies if you-all would
13 like to have copies of it, but it will fit in
14 very nicely with the area.
15 And I guess at this point I'll just open it
16 up for questions if there are any questions that
17 you have.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Since there's no more
19 speakers, just hold tight.
20 I will close the public hearing.
21 Mr. Joost.
22 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 How long can a person stay in these
24 apartments? Is there any limit?
25 MR. MATOVINA: The maximum lease, to begin
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
25
1 with, will be a year. There may be times when
2 they end up staying longer than a year, but
3 the -- as a general rule, our goal will be to
4 get them in and out in a year, to get them
5 rehabilitated and back into the -- into the
6 for-profit side of the housing.
7 MR. JOOST: But, theoretically, they could
8 renew year after year?
9 MR. MATOVINA: Yes, but I don't -- I don't
10 think we would keep them there for longer than
11 two years. That would be defeating the purpose.
12 MR. JOOST: Why don't you just put that in
13 the lease, then, the maximum they can stay is
14 24 months?
15 MR. MATOVINA: We could.
16 MR. JOOST: I'll offer that as an
17 amendment.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
19 MR. WEBB: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
21 seconded.
22 Mr. Redman.
23 (Ms. Nazworth confers with Mr. Matovina.)
24 MR. MATOVINA: Could I address that again?
25 We're using various funding sources for
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
26
1 this from the State and the City, and Shannon
2 doesn't believe that that limit will be allowed
3 with our funding sources, that it would -- it
4 would contradict our funding source
5 requirements.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we'll get back to
7 that. We're not acting on your amendment right
8 now, trust me. Anything that we come up with,
9 you guys have to agree on before we vote it up
10 or down either way.
11 MS. NAZWORTH: Okay. I just wanted to make
12 sure.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thanks.
14 Hold on a second.
15 Mr. Redman.
16 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 This will be run by whom?
18 MR. MATOVINA: This would be run by
19 Ability Housing, and there would be on-site
20 staff and offices there to run the facility.
21 MR. REDMAN: Where would the residents come
22 from? Would they be sent by an organization?
23 Would they just come in off the street at will
24 to seek a place to stay or referred to y'all by
25 other entities?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
27
1 MR. MATOVINA: Both. Both.
2 So Sulzbacher might have a family that's
3 staying in their facility and maybe the husband
4 had lost his job and now he's gotten a job
5 and -- but with his job, he needs to work there
6 a little while before he can build up enough to
7 actually move out to maybe a 500 or $600 a month
8 rent, and so they might move into this facility
9 for six months while he kind of gets himself
10 together and the family gets themselves
11 together.
12 MR. REDMAN: Okay. Thank you.
13 MR. MATOVINA: You're welcome.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Gaffney.
15 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. President.
16 I just want to -- I'm a little perplexed
17 right now. Originally, I really thought that
18 this was a very beautiful project, and I still
19 think it's a nice project. I was hoping that
20 there was some type of amicable and expeditious
21 resolution.
22 Unfortunately, because I'm just getting
23 back, I haven't had a chance to meet back with
24 you. And I thought we had -- the reason we made
25 amendments, because we had some type of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
28
1 resolution.
2 So I would suggest -- I would suggest --
3 because I -- initially, I wanted to have an
4 opportunity to sit down with the parties and see
5 what we could come up with because I want what's
6 best for the community, and I -- once again, I
7 think it's a very nice project. However, I am
8 very much aware that Springfield has been
9 bombarded with a lot of projects that has been
10 detrimental to the community. So, therefore, I
11 want to make sure that I have a very -- some
12 clarity on what the community wants.
13 I have had some individuals say they like
14 it, they're happy with the project, but I
15 want -- I think we should defer it maybe one
16 cycle so I can have an opportunity to meet with
17 all of the parties so I get a very good
18 understanding of what everybody wants.
19 I have some -- because I haven't met with
20 anyone. And as the district councilperson, I
21 think it's my responsibility to meet with
22 everyone and all of my constituents and make
23 sure that -- maybe we can come to a happy
24 medium, so -- if that's okay with you --
25 THE CHAIRMAN: I guess the first thing that
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
29
1 I have is -- as Mr. Matovina just said, this is
2 not in Springfield. This is outside of
3 Springfield. I mean, you can still -- you can
4 still ask for the deferral, but this is actually
5 not in Springfield.
6 MR. JOOST: This is in his district.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Like I said, he can ask for
8 the deferral. I'm just saying it's not in
9 Springfield.
10 DR. GAFFNEY: We can defer it.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: What's that?
12 DR. GAFFNEY: We can defer it.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Brown.
14 MR. BROWN: Okay. I just wanted to -- and
15 I'm glad you made that clarification in terms of
16 the reference point.
17 Davis Street and Kings Road, is that my
18 understanding where the location is, Davis
19 Street?
20 MR. MATOVINA: Just north of there.
21 MR. BROWN: Just north?
22 MR. MATOVINA: Just north of there, yes,
23 sir.
24 MR. BROWN: Okay. So it will sit between
25 the McDonald's on 8th and Davis and the --
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
30
1 MR. MATOVINA: Way south of that
2 McDonald's.
3 MR. BROWN: Okay. But I'm in the right
4 area, though?
5 MR. MATOVINA: Yes.
6 MR. BROWN: Okay. I just wanted to make
7 sure I was in the right area.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Matovina, did you have
10 anything about the deferral?
11 MR. MATOVINA: No. I think we're fine with
12 the deferral, and we'll be glad to meet with the
13 councilperson and come the next cycle. That
14 will be fine.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Then we will reopen
16 the public hearing and continue that public
17 hearing and take no further action.
18 MR. MATOVINA: Thank you.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
20 I guess for us to be -- well, never mind.
21 Do we have to -- since we moved and
22 seconded the amendment, do we have to pull back
23 those amendments or can we just defer?
24 MS. ELLER: You can just defer.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Done deal.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
31
1 Okay. 2009-50. We will open the public
2 hearing.
3 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
4 public hearing and take no further action.
5 Top of page 7. 2009-91. We'll open the
6 public hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
8 public hearing and take no further action.
9 2009-115 is deferred.
10 2009-143. We will open the public
11 hearing. We have the applicant.
12 (Mr. Meadows approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Meadows, are you
14 speaking on this bill or a different one?
15 MR. MEADOWS: No.
16 MR. WEBB: (Inaudible.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: We need ex-parte now. Let's
18 give it.
19 MR. WEBB: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
20 declare ex-parte communication with Mr. Mann,
21 Ms. McDonald this afternoon at 4:30 in my office
22 to discuss the status of this application.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Anybody else like to
25 declare any ex-parte on this bill?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
32
1 MR. REDMAN: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
3 MR. REDMAN: Yes. I also need to declare
4 ex-parte this afternoon in my office --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
6 MR. REDMAN: -- with both of these.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, Mr. Mann or
10 Ms. McDonald, whichever one wants to go first.
11 (Ms. McDonald approaches the podium.)
12 MS. McDONALD: Good evening. Thank you.
13 Susan McDonald, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard.
14 May I ask, are there any other cards other
15 than applicant cards?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: (Shakes head.)
17 MS. McDONALD: Okay. We'll shorten our
18 presentation, then.
19 We are here with experts. We are here with
20 charts and so forth, but this is a PUD change.
21 The comp plan amendment has already been
22 approved. We've been through a number of
23 meetings, and we deferred so that we could meet
24 with the residents and we could counsel further
25 with Councilman Holt, and that has been
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
33
1 accomplished.
2 I would just say that we're here to answer
3 any questions. We're happy to make a full
4 presentation if you wish us to do so.
5 Otherwise, Mr. Mann is here, we have Mike
6 Herzberg here as well, and many charts and
7 graphs if you would like to see them.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Mann, would you
9 like to add anything or are you giving up your
10 time?
11 MR. MANN: I will give up my time.
12 Ms. McDonald, she did more than an adequate
13 job.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: You guys are both good
15 people.
16 We'll close that public hearing.
17 Hold on for questions.
18 Mr. Brown.
19 MR. BROWN: Okay. I just want to make
20 sure -- and this, Mr. Chairman, may be to legal
21 because we have been discussing this issue quite
22 a bit, and I just want to make sure that we
23 are -- want to avoid any legal issues down the
24 road.
25 I know that there was some concerns about
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
34
1 the noise level of the retention ponds. I want
2 to make sure those things were -- so if you
3 could elaborate on that, that would be great.
4 Thank you.
5 MS. ELLER: Sure.
6 All of the noise requirements in place in
7 our zoning code and in our other areas of the
8 ordinance code, those are all in place and they
9 are not superseded in any way by this particular
10 PUD. So the applicant, once they do build the
11 project, they will be required to comply with
12 all those things.
13 We typically don't -- there's no
14 prerequisite prior to having your rezoning to --
15 to have noise studies or the like, especially if
16 the project hasn't been built yet.
17 So I'm confident in our existing ordinance
18 code, and we did have contact with our
19 environmental folks to confirm that. And
20 Mr. Seibold did make comments to me and was
21 available for questions, I believe, the last
22 time on that particular issue.
23 And then with regard to the retention areas
24 and the like, nothing in their PUD can supersede
25 any of the minimum requirements that we have in
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
35
1 order to deal with water on site and provide
2 positive drainage.
3 I will defer to the applicants on any of
4 the specifics of your project on those issues,
5 but I'm comfortable with our ability to enforce
6 those regulations and not have a legal challenge
7 from someone else.
8 If this PUD is ultimately approved, I think
9 that the evidence you have in the record would
10 support the approval.
11 MS. McDONALD: Mr. Chairman, if I may add a
12 comment to that?
13 No. Okay.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you done? Do you have a
15 question?
16 MR. BROWN: Well, no. You -- I was going
17 to allow her to make her comment, and I'll ask
18 her --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You've got the mic.
20 MS. McDONALD: Thank you, Councilman
21 Brown.
22 I wanted to add that while we were not
23 required to do so, we did do a noise study
24 ourselves. We employed a noise expert. And
25 with the uses that would be permitted on the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
36
1 site, we are well under the City's noise
2 requirements.
3 MR. BROWN: Okay. My last question is --
4 with meeting with the residents, I understand
5 that y'all did have a chance to meet with the
6 residents, to give an idea as to how many -- how
7 many neighbors are in that area and how many
8 people showed up at the meeting?
9 MS. McDONALD: Well, we did -- at
10 Councilman Holt's suggestion, we did meet with
11 the residents. And the meeting was held in this
12 building, and the neighbors were invited. Four,
13 I believe, came, is my recollection.
14 And we did answer their questions. We went
15 over the facts of the proposal, and we made
16 ourselves available for any information or other
17 questions that they may have.
18 MR. BROWN: Okay. So from your vantage
19 point, what was the outcome of the meeting? I
20 mean, did you have any more opposition?
21 I understand no one is here tonight, but at
22 that particular meeting, all the concerns that
23 they had was addressed? There was no further
24 opposition?
25 MS. McDONALD: Well, there were three
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
37
1 neighbors there, and I can't say that everybody
2 was totally satisfied.
3 I think there was misinformation out there
4 and we were able to respond to those issues, and
5 I guess I would like to defer to Councilman Holt
6 to give his impressions as well.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
8 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
9 Through the Chair to Councilman Brown, we
10 had a good, productive meeting. We went over
11 all the issues that Pastor Gundy had brought.
12 And I understand he's not here tonight to speak
13 to it, but I'll do the best I can.
14 I think ultimately he had wanted some sort
15 of agreement that would restrict the use of the
16 property to a certain time of the day and no use
17 at night, and I don't think the applicants were
18 okay with that. And I really didn't feel like
19 it was necessary, considering the distance of
20 buffering that they have from those properties.
21 I believe it's around 600 feet from the closest
22 property line that they'll have their
23 buildings. At the same time, I can understand
24 their concern.
25 There were four people at the meeting, and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
38
1 I think there was only one that really had an
2 issue unresolved, and that was to limit the use
3 of the property to daylight hours only, and I
4 don't feel like that that's necessary
5 considering the massive amount of buffering that
6 they have.
7 This is a buffer that -- I've never seen
8 anything that much, so I think that the
9 applicant has put himself -- they're squared
10 away with doing more than what I think is
11 necessary, so . . .
12 Thank goodness for the JEA easement that
13 extended out a little further, and so I'm in
14 support of it.
15 MR. BROWN: Okay. I guess that really
16 answered my question.
17 I guess -- well, my position is -- because
18 I'm experiencing this in District 10 quite a
19 bit, with the noise level.
20 And especially hours of operation, when you
21 have individuals that are -- usually sleep
22 during those late night hours. And for
23 companies to -- that may not appear to disturb
24 neighbors, it appears to travel. Sound appears
25 to travel farther at night because it's less
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
39
1 noise than it does during the daylight hours.
2 And so when I get the phone calls -- and
3 just thinking about this particular situation,
4 it just raised some concerns that I believe
5 neighbors legitimately have about noise levels.
6 And that's it. Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
8 Mr. Holt.
9 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you done?
11 MR. HOLT: Yes.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We closed the public
13 hearing already, I think.
14 If not, we'll close that one.
15 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
16 MR. JOOST: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
18 and seconded.
19 Can we hear the amendment?
20 MR. CROFTS: On the advice of counsel and
21 with concurrence of the applicant, I'm going to
22 summarize the amendment because it is rather
23 verbose in saying that it is reflected in our
24 correspondence to the president of the council
25 on February 26th, and essentially it's -- it
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
40
1 includes the typical written description and the
2 memorandums from the appropriate review agencies
3 that this particular application will be subject
4 to, as well as there's considerable in-depth
5 review in terms of the signage, the landscape
6 buffer that was previously referred to along
7 Interstate 295, as well as the significant
8 buffer between this project and the residential
9 property to the south as reflected in Exhibit J.
10 I will summarize from that and that there
11 are seven conditions in this amendment.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: So there's no new conditions
13 other than the seven that we have in front of
14 us?
15 MR. CROFTS: That's correct.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, are you guys familiar
17 with the seven we have in front of us?
18 MS. McDONALD: Yes, we are.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you in agreement with
20 those?
21 MS. McDONALD: Yes, we are.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Sounds good.
23 All in favor of the amendment say aye.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
41
1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
3 the amendment.
4 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
5 MR. JOOST: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
7 seconded as amended.
8 Any discussion on the bill?
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
11 ballot.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
16 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes nay.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
22 the vote.
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, one nay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 approved 2009-143.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
42
1 MS. McDONALD: Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, guys.
3 MS. McDONALD: Thank you very much.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Bottom of page 7, 2009- --
5 I'm sorry -- -161. We'll open the public
6 hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
8 public hearing and take no further action.
9 Top of page 8. 2009-162. We will open
10 that public hearing.
11 Do we have any cards?
12 MS. STEPHENS: No.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
14 We will close that public hearing.
15 Let's hear from the Planning Department
16 what this is about.
17 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
18 To the Chair, members of Council, ordinance
19 2009-162 is a sign waiver requesting a reduction
20 in the required 10-foot setback from the
21 right-of-way from 10 feet to 7 feet.
22 My understanding was that the sign
23 contractor made a mistake in the placement of
24 the sign footings, and when the sign was --
25 after it was constructed, it was inspected. It
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
43
1 was determined that there was a violation of the
2 setback.
3 The department has reviewed the
4 application. We are supportive of the request
5 in that it doesn't interfere with any sight
6 distance or traffic visibility at this location.
7 We do have a condition for approval.
8 There's actually a -- condition number 1 has
9 been struck in your staff report, and condition
10 number 2 is amended as follows. It states:
11 "Future signage shall be shared or limited
12 to a monument-style sign consistent with the
13 size allowed in the PUD and architecturally
14 compatible with the architecture of the building
15 and identifies.
16 "The 200-foot sign separation requirement
17 may be reduced in order to buffer residential
18 uses, subject to the review and approval of the
19 Planning and Development Department."
20 Pending that one condition and striking the
21 two conditions in the staff report, we're
22 recommending approval.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Is the applicant here?
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
25 MR. KELLY: Yes.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
44
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on down.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a wise man for being
4 here.
5 Are you in agreement with that one
6 condition that they put on this?
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir, I am.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That being said, all
9 in -- do I get a motion?
10 MR. WEBB: Move to grant.
11 MR. JOOST: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
13 to grant.
14 Any discussion?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
17 signify by saying aye.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
22 the amendment.
23 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
24 MR. HOLT: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
45
1 to grant the waiver.
2 Any further discussion?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
5 ballot.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
10 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
19 approved -162.
20 Sir, thank you for coming down.
21 -188. We will open the public hearing.
22 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
23 hearing.
24 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
25 MR. JOOST: Second.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
46
1 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
2 and seconded.
3 All in favor of the amendment signify by
4 saying aye.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
9 the amendment.
10 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
11 MR. BROWN: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
13 seconded as amended.
14 Any discussion on the bill?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
17 ballot.
18 (Committee ballot opened.)
19 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
22 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
47
1 (Committee ballot closed.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
3 the vote.
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
6 approved 2009-188.
7 2009-189. Open the public hearing.
8 We have Mr. Ingram.
9 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
10 MR. INGRAM: Good afternoon.
11 Tom Ingram, 7010 Madrid Avenue,
12 Jacksonville 32217.
13 This is a notice of proposed change to
14 amend the Nocatee DRI, and essentially it's
15 housekeeping issues that have come up from time
16 to time.
17 As you may know, Nocatee is primarily in
18 St. Johns County, about 15 percent or 1,991
19 acres of the project is in Duval County --
20 THE CHAIRMAN: So what you're saying,
21 you're here for questions only?
22 MR. INGRAM: Essentially --
23 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a --
24 MR. INGRAM: St. Johns County approved it
25 this afternoon.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
48
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
2 MR. INGRAM: Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close that public
4 hearing.
5 Hold tight.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
7 MR. HOLT: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
9 and seconded.
10 All in favor of the amendment signify by
11 saying aye.
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
16 the amendment.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
18 MR. HOLT: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
20 seconded as amended.
21 Any discussion on the bill?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
24 ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
49
1 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
4 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 approved -189.
14 Thank you, sir.
15 MR. INGRAM: Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: -190. We will open that
17 public hearing.
18 (Mr. Gabriel approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Jason, how do, sir?
20 MR. GABRIEL: Good evening.
21 Jason Gabriel, 6 East Bay Street, Suite
22 500, Jacksonville, Florida.
23 Just here on behalf of the applicant and
24 available for questions.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
50
1 We'll close that public hearing.
2 Hold tight.
3 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
4 MR. JOOST: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
6 and seconded.
7 Sir, do you need to hear the amendment?
8 MR. GABRIEL: No.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
10 MR. GABRIEL: I know the amendment.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor of the
12 amendment signify by saying aye.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
17 approved the amendment.
18 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
19 MR. HOLT: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
21 seconded as amended.
22 Seeing no discussion, please open the
23 ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
51
1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
3 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
9 the vote
10 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
12 approved 2009-190.
13 Thank you, sir.
14 Top of page 9. 2009-191. We will open
15 that public hearing.
16 Mr. Fletcher.
17 (Mr. Fletcher approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Looks like he's coming down
19 here for questions only.
20 MR. FLETCHER: Yes, sir.
21 Are there any speaker cards in opposition
22 or anything?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
24 MR. FLETCHER: I will -- we'll yield to
25 questions, then.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
52
1 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
2 MR. FLETCHER: There is an amendment, and
3 I'm -- if it's the one I think it is, I'm fine.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: We will hear that.
5 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
6 MR. JOOST: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
8 and seconded.
9 Can we hear the amendment, please.
10 MS. ELLER: Yes.
11 It's to insert the word "portion of" in
12 front of the real estate number since the RE
13 number includes the entire parcel and this only
14 applies to the northern part of it.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Were you fine with that
16 amendment, sir?
17 MR. FLETCHER: (Nods head.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record indicate that
19 he said yes.
20 All in favor of the amendment say aye.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
25 the amendment.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
53
1 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
2 MR. JOOST: Second.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
4 seconded as amended.
5 Any discussion on the bill?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
8 ballot.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
13 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
19 the vote.
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
22 approved -191.
23 MR. FLETCHER: Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, thank you for coming
25 down.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
54
1 2009-192. We'll open that public hearing.
2 We have Evelyn Griffin.
3 (Mr. Meadows approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, you're the applicant,
5 right?
6 MR. MEADOWS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Meadows, you're not the
8 applicant.
9 MR. MEADOWS: I'm representing Ms. Griffin.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, let's have the
11 other person speak first.
12 MR. MEADOWS: All right.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Curtis Everett --
14 MR. MEADOWS: All right.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Is Curtis Everett here?
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on down, sir.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
20 record, please.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Curtis Everett, 3847
22 Aladdin Terrace.
23 The lots across from this lot are
24 120-foot-plus lots, so are the adjacent lots.
25 This property was bought in 2006. In 2007, it
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
55
1 was divided into two nonconforming lots. If
2 there's a hardship here, it's self-imposed.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
5 Mr. Meadows or Ms. Everett, whichever one
6 wants to go -- I'm sorry, Ms. Griffin, whichever
7 one wants to go first.
8 (Mr. Meadows approaches the podium.)
9 MR. MEADOWS: Mr. Chairman, Hilton Meadows,
10 Diversified Environmental Planning, 6837 Merrill
11 Road, Jacksonville, Florida, representing the
12 applicant.
13 We are respectfully asking for a deferral,
14 Mr. Chairman. There are some discrepancies in
15 the survey that has been done and there's some
16 factual errors in the measurements that have
17 been made.
18 The gentleman who just came here -- came up
19 before you may very well be right about what he
20 says about the lots across the street, but this
21 is one of those anomalies that occurs more
22 frequently than not in the Mandarin area --
23 No, Mr. Webb.
24 -- that occurs in the Mandarin area as a
25 result of divisions of land in the Mandarin area
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
56
1 that occurred much before this piece of property
2 was bought by the current applicant, so we would
3 respectfully ask you to give us time to work
4 through some of this ordeal with the Planning
5 Department and come back to the hearing.
6 There's a note in the side of the page here
7 indicating one or the other of this issue, and
8 I'm not quite sure what that means except I am
9 certain that we need a deferral in order to
10 attend to these discrepancies.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll wait until we
12 close the public hearing --
13 MR. MEADOWS: Sure.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: -- and we'll decide from
15 there.
16 MR. MEADOWS: Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
18 Ms. Griffin.
19 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
21 Forgive me. I'm a little nervous.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: That's quite all right.
23 Take your time.
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My husband and I
25 purchased the property in 2006.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
57
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, I need your name and
2 address for the record, please.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm sorry.
4 285 Maplewood Drive, St. Johns, Florida
5 32259.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: We purchased the property
8 as a -- as a total, it was one acre and
9 eight-tenths, so it was 1.80 acres.
10 There's 115 feet of road frontage, and we
11 understood when we bought it, it was zoned
12 multifamily and it was grandfathered in.
13 I recently discovered that the zoning was
14 changed to single-family in 1992. I was told by
15 the Zoning Department that this property was
16 grandfathered in and is a nonconforming use and
17 that we would have to maintain the property as
18 it's -- in its current status.
19 What we planned on doing was -- well, we
20 split the property in 2007, and we were advised
21 by the surveyor to go ahead and split it 80 feet
22 on the road frontage and 35.
23 Well, they made a mistake. We realized
24 that just recently, that they made a mistake and
25 did 79 and 39 feet.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
58
1 And what we'd like to do -- because most of
2 the property is situated in the back, abutting
3 to Cormorant Landing. There's one acre and
4 eight-tenths of an acre.
5 The one acre has the existing duplex that
6 was grandfathered in, and we'd like to renovate
7 it, upgrade it because it has not been updated
8 since 1967, and we will continue the use. If
9 not, later on we may even turn it into a
10 single-family home.
11 We'd like -- the other lot that has
12 eight-tenths of an acre, we'd like to build a
13 nice single-family home. We feel like that
14 there's enough land in the back that it would be
15 situated far off the -- you know, the street,
16 that it would still maintain its beauty and give
17 value to the area.
18 And simply, the bottom line is we'd like to
19 have it -- you know, access to the duplex
20 because of the way it's situated off of Aladdin
21 Terrace.
22 So anyway, that's it.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I'm going to
24 close the public hearing, but hold tight because
25 you've got a question coming your way.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
59
1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close the public
3 hearing.
4 Mr. Webb.
5 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 Ma'am, you're telling me that the property
7 was zoned multi- -- you thought the property was
8 zoned multifamily?
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir.
10 When we looked at the appraiser's web site
11 when we purchased it, it says multifamily.
12 MR. WEBB: Interesting. I --
13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And we -- and when we
14 split the parcel -- the lots up, we received two
15 parcel numbers and we've been paying taxes ever
16 since on --
17 MR. WEBB: Have you ever resided on that
18 property or did you buy it for investment
19 purposes?
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: We actually bought it as
21 investment, but now --
22 MR. WEBB: You may be living on it.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Based on the economy -- I
24 recently lost my job, so we may be moving there,
25 so . . .
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
60
1 MR. WEBB: Okay. Thank you very much,
2 ma'am.
3 Through the Chair to Mr. Crofts,
4 multifamily on Aladdin Terrace, is that --
5 MR. CROFTS: Not in my recent memory, sir.
6 Now, that would not be the official zoning
7 position on it. It never would have been
8 multifamily. They might have set it -- because
9 of the property appraiser, because there's more
10 than one unit grandfathered in, I think this
11 property -- the dwelling on it, the structure
12 was built in 1967, before zoning, so it
13 precluded zoning, but it never was zoned
14 multifamily.
15 MR. WEBB: Yeah.
16 Just so you know, Mr. Chairman, this is
17 right around the corner from my own home. And
18 that's rural residential down there, so that
19 would be very interesting.
20 Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I would
21 request a definite deferral on this matter. It
22 sounds to me like a lot of issues need to be
23 figured out here as to what's actually going
24 on. It sounds to me like there's some possible
25 legal action as well.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
61
1 So, in any event, I request deferral.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That being the case,
3 we will reopen that public hearing and continue
4 that public hearing and take no further action.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you very much.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: It's deferred. Thank you.
7 2009-193. We will open that public
8 hearing. We have Danny Clark.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Danny Clark at
11 2009-193, 8620 Taylor Field Road.
12 I'm applying for minimum road frontage. I
13 was wanting to get approved for -- put a trailer
14 in the back. I'm trying to bring my mom from
15 York, PA. She's getting where she's hard to
16 take care of herself and wanting to move down
17 here closer to me and my brother.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no other
19 speakers -- hold tight, sir -- we will close
20 that public hearing.
21 Planning Department, I have a denial here.
22 Can we hear what's going on?
23 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
24 Through the Chair to members of council,
25 ordinance 2009-193 seeks to reduce the required
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
62
1 road frontage for two dwellings from 160 feet to
2 53 feet.
3 Staff is not supportive of this request and
4 finds there's no similar flag lots within the
5 vicinity of this. We feel that there's, again,
6 no practical difficulty in carrying out the
7 strict letter of the law.
8 There's been numerous similar requests
9 along Taylor Field Road for waivers of this kind
10 in the past and, historically, they have not
11 been supported.
12 We find that this is just not going to fit
13 in with the character of the area. There's
14 no -- again, if you look at the zoning map on
15 page 5, there's no similar flag lots in the
16 vicinity of this area at all, and we find that
17 ultimately it does become detrimental to the
18 health, safety, and welfare of the residents
19 that are living towards the back end of that
20 property and the addressing and 911 response.
21 It becomes difficult to identify the property
22 and, therefore, we're recommending denial.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I need a motion.
24 MR. HOLT: Move to deny.
25 MR. JOOST: Second.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
63
1 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
2 to deny.
3 Any discussion on the denial?
4 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair, Mr. Crofts
5 brought to my attention -- obviously, there's
6 the ability with provisions already codified
7 under lineal consanguinity provisions that this
8 applicant may be better off going that route,
9 which would allow for the second dwelling on the
10 structure [sic]. He does have enough land area
11 for it. However, there's a deed restriction on
12 the property that limits it to future transfer
13 of ownership has to be within direct family
14 relationship.
15 So that may be an alternative. I didn't
16 know the situation, but that might be an
17 alternative.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you need to explain
19 that so I understand it.
20 Do you want to go to the Green Room and
21 explain it to the applicant and we'll take this
22 up when you're done?
23 MR. KELLY: Sure.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We will lay this on
25 the table.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
64
1 Sir, if you'd follow the officer out that
2 door, they'll explain it to you and see what we
3 can come up with, and then maybe he'll come back
4 and explain it to me.
5 All right. So we will lay -193 on the
6 table.
7 2009-235. We'll open the public hearing.
8 Duncan Ross.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: You're here for questions
11 only?
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's correct.
13 Duncan Ross, 13901 Sutton Park Drive South.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
15 Seeing no questions -- hold tight -- we'll
16 close that public hearing.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
18 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: It's a -- there's an
20 amendment here.
21 MS. ELLER: There's no amendment.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: There is not an amendment.
23 Okay. I've got an old version that -- they
24 took the amendment off.
25 The bill's been moved and seconded.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
65
1 Any discussion on the bill?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
4 ballot.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
9 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved 2009-235.
19 Thank you, sir.
20 MR. ROSS: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 10. 2009-236.
22 We will open that public hearing.
23 (Mr. Gabriel approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Justin [sic] Gabriel is here
25 for questions only?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
66
1 MR. GABRIEL: That's correct.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: You too are a good man.
3 We will close that public hearing.
4 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
5 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
7 seconded.
8 Any discussion on the bill?
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
11 ballot.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
16 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
22 the vote.
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 approved -236.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
67
1 Thank you, sir.
2 MR. GABRIEL: Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: 2009-237. We will open that
4 public hearing.
5 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
6 MR. HAINLINE: T.R. Hainline, 1301
7 Riverplace Boulevard.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hainline, I have some
9 people here speaking in opposition. Would you
10 like to speak before or after them?
11 MR. HAINLINE: I'd like to speak before
12 would be fine.
13 Be happy to answer question afterwards,
14 and --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: That's --
16 MR. HAINLINE: -- I have some things to
17 pass out to the committee members.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
19 MR. HAINLINE: Mr. Chairman, members of the
20 committee, again, T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace
21 Boulevard.
22 This is a comprehensive plan amendment for
23 transmittal to the state agencies, and it deals
24 with -- I'm going to move this over here. It
25 deals with 53 acres in the extreme westernmost
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
68
1 part of the county.
2 The owner of this property, who is my
3 client, which is ICI Villages, is proceeding
4 with two amendments simultaneously, one in
5 Duval County, city of Jacksonville, and the
6 other in Nassau County.
7 On the pictures that I passed out there,
8 what you'll see is you'll see a small,
9 53-acre -- that is small on the map -- 53-acre
10 yellow piece of property. That's the property
11 that is before you tonight.
12 You'll also see a larger -- a much larger
13 purple piece of property, 487 acres that is
14 pending in Nassau County --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: T.R.
16 MR. HAINLINE: Yes.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: You can pick that mic up
18 because you're going back and forth. You're
19 going to drive Diane crazy.
20 MR. HAINLINE: What am I --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: You can pick it up.
22 MR. HAINLINE: (Complies.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: There you go.
24 So, then, when you turn your head, you
25 don't go away.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
69
1 MR. HAINLINE: All right. I feel like
2 Tony Bennett.
3 Okay. So the 487 acres is in Nassau
4 County, and that comprehensive plan amendment is
5 proceeding simultaneously with this one. It has
6 been through their Planning Commission and
7 Planning Department for approval.
8 The reason I went to this map and passed it
9 out is it also shows a much larger development,
10 which is not by ICI Villages, located just to
11 the west in Baker County. That is a development
12 of regional impact that is proposed by Jackson
13 Shaw, which, again, is not associated with us.
14 And then at the far left of the map is --
15 in blue, is 184 acres that's a Wal-Mart
16 distribution center.
17 So what ICI Villages is proposing is that
18 both the purple and the yellow, the 487 acres
19 and the 53 acres, get put into light industrial
20 for warehouse distribution.
21 It is -- there's a railroad track that cuts
22 through the middle of it, which you can kind of
23 see at the top third there. And I-10 is at the
24 bottom of it, which makes it ideal for that.
25 Very quickly, we have agreed to a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
70
1 condition, which we worked out with the Planning
2 Department, which caps the development here such
3 that traffic out on US-90 does not exceed
4 concurrency or cause any concurrency problems
5 there.
6 We have also agreed in that condition that
7 any concurrency or traffic analysis by either
8 county on either the yellow or the purple will
9 be coordinated through both Nassau and Duval
10 Counties by an Interlocal Agreement, which would
11 be entered into before we do any development.
12 With all that happening, the Planning staff
13 is in support of it. We did have a community
14 meeting out in Baldwin last Thursday, and we
15 will be meeting with the mayor of Baldwin next
16 Wednesday.
17 I know there's some folks here in
18 opposition. We've met with them as well. I'm
19 happy to address any questions after they speak.
20 Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Hainline.
22 Anthony Robbins.
23 MR. ROBBINS: Just here for questions,
24 Mr. Chair.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
71
1 Laura Reese.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
4 We did have that meeting at the -- at the
5 little meeting we had in Baldwin, and the people
6 who came were quite surprised because they knew
7 nothing of this.
8 And the fact that they have met with us,
9 they've been very genteel, but this affects more
10 than just the area that they're speaking about.
11 I live on US-90. All of my neighbors live
12 on US-90, now called Beaver Street. We're
13 getting mail now that our address has changed.
14 I wonder what that's about.
15 But anyway, we did have the meeting, and we
16 came away really more confused than ever, and
17 most of the people there said they had not heard
18 anything about it.
19 The fact that this is -- more of the
20 property involved is in Nassau and Baker County
21 does not change the fact that the traffic comes
22 by our door.
23 When I try to get out of my driveway -- it
24 lets right out onto US-90 or Beaver Street -- I
25 have to sit there and wait for the traffic to
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
72
1 get by.
2 Now, I personally have been hit twice in my
3 lifetime by a semi and lived to tell it, but I
4 don't want to take -- you know, third time might
5 be bad news.
6 We are a rural community. I have
7 livestock. I have a garden. My neighbor down
8 the street has a lot of livestock. It's a
9 country area, and we -- we've had endangered
10 species spotted. I've seen the Florida panther
11 there.
12 We just want to live and let live, but the
13 fact that the distribution center is down about
14 three miles east of -- west of me, those trucks
15 just come rumbling by there. And try getting
16 out of your driveway when something is coming
17 60 miles an hour. You know, that's -- that's a
18 disaster waiting to happen.
19 I also mentioned at the last meeting here
20 that I attended that I have a special needs
21 child on the property. We have to have
22 emergency people in there, less now than we did,
23 but we never know when it's going to happen. He
24 has spinal muscular atrophy. He is diagnosed as
25 terminal. We don't receive that, we don't
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
73
1 believe that, but in the meantime, we do have to
2 have emergency people --
3 I see the light is on.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, you have 30 seconds
5 left.
6 MS. REESE: Okay. Thank you.
7 Please listen to us and give us more time.
8 We heard about this about two weeks ago, and
9 this is going to change our lives drastically.
10 I don't -- we don't ask for City services
11 much. You know, we get stuck in our driveway
12 with mud, we don't call the City. We go out and
13 dig out the ditch, you know. We don't ask y'all
14 for much.
15 But when all of these new houses -- and
16 Mr. Hoss (phonetic) said he's got about 500
17 houses, I think, planned for the area. Somebody
18 is going to be yelling to you guys to do
19 something about the -- widening the highway,
20 that and much more.
21 Wish we had more time. Wish we could just
22 sit down and chat with y'all.
23 Be blessed.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
25 Ma'am, hold on a second. We have a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
74
1 question for you.
2 Mr. Holt.
3 MS. REESE: Yes.
4 MR. HOLT: Well, I guess to start off with,
5 a question. Ma'am, are you aware that what we
6 are voting on tonight is a transmittal to
7 Tallahassee in order to get comments from DCA?
8 We're not actually passing -- approving this
9 project tonight.
10 MS. REESE: Well, I was hoping you wouldn't
11 approve it tonight, but I wasn't sure.
12 MR. HOLT: Well, even if we vote --
13 MS. REESE: I mean, this is -- you know,
14 they had all their cards stacked and we didn't
15 even have any cards to play with, you know.
16 MR. HOLT: Right.
17 MS. REESE: We -- this just hit us about
18 two weeks ago.
19 MR. HOLT: Well, just to let you know --
20 because you had just said that you wanted to
21 have some more time. Well, this actually won't
22 be approved -- or voted on for approval for
23 quite sometime, so we will have more time for
24 you to speak with the applicant, and I'd be
25 happy to work --
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
75
1 MS. REESE: This is really going to impact
2 Duval County a lot.
3 We don't ask for much service, so y'all
4 don't have to pay much attention, but when all
5 these other folks get out there, you know,
6 there's going to be a lot of new services
7 needed.
8 We have our own septic tanks. We have our
9 own pumps. You know, we -- we take care of
10 ourself. We don't ask for much, just emergency,
11 emergency.
12 MR. HOLT: Right.
13 MS. REESE: My next-door neighbor had an
14 emergency two days ago, you know, had to have
15 the help out there, but that's about all we ask
16 for.
17 MR. HOLT: Okay. Well, I just wanted to
18 bring that up and let you know that there will
19 be plenty of time to have discussion of the
20 merits of this, and also to let you know -- it
21 was my understanding from the applicant, from
22 Mr. Hainline, that the traffic from this
23 development, or at least the majority of it, is
24 going to be handled from a -- from I-10.
25 They are going to be putting in an off ramp
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
76
1 on the -- the Baker County side; is that right?
2 MS. REESE: On the Baker County side?
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Holt, let's just
4 wait until after we close the public hearing and
5 then you can bring Mr. Hainline up for
6 questions.
7 MR. HOLT: Okay.
8 MS. REESE: We would be very interested to
9 hear how -- what you're going to do with the
10 traffic because right now it is a life hazard,
11 life-threatening hazard.
12 MR. HOLT: Okay. Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
14 MS. REESE: Even as I speak it is.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
16 MS. REESE: Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Carol Ann Para.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening, ladies and
20 gentlemen.
21 I'm Carol Ann Para, 22900 Beaver Street
22 West, Jacksonville, 32224.
23 I am probably the neighbor that is most
24 negatively impacted.
25 Let me just quickly show you where my
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
77
1 property is.
2 Right there (indicating).
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Gotcha.
4 MS. PARA: That triangle that's a half
5 plat.
6 I also learned at the City meeting that I
7 have one day to try to notify the Town of
8 Baldwin about this, and I managed to arrange a
9 place for us to meet. We had about 40 people
10 there. And also Mr. Fidio (phonetic) from the
11 Nassau County Planning Board was there. He was
12 very gracious and came out.
13 I also learned from the planner that they
14 own property in excess of what is shown here.
15 Let me point that out to you, if I may.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
17 MS. PARA: Behind me and up here
18 (indicating).
19 My home is threatened. Can you see?
20 If this goes to industrial usage, it is
21 going to be very dangerous for me as a single
22 woman living (inaudible) with railroads coming
23 through, with transients jumping on and off. We
24 already have a problem with that in our
25 neighborhood.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
78
1 We did not have adequate notification. I
2 only found out about this on the 20th of March
3 and have had to start a single-handed effort to
4 try to marshal the neighbors and to fight --
5 make calls to three counties and also try to
6 keep my work, which is during these hours going
7 [sic]. I'm afraid of losing my income -- sole
8 income because of all the meetings that I have
9 to attend.
10 I need time. I need your cooperation.
11 This is a very bad situation. It's very big,
12 and we do have traffic issues. We have sewer
13 and water issues. The Town of Baldwin was not
14 even notified about the Duval County
15 involvement. I called the mayor about it, and
16 he said, "Oh, it's Nassau County. It's not
17 Duval," and I went in and showed him the
18 paperwork that I had received.
19 So things are not in place, and we feel
20 like we're being pushed ahead of even an
21 opportunity to make an intelligent rebuttal to
22 this and to be able to gather our forces, and we
23 certainly are going to want to minimize -- even
24 if we can't stop this, which, of course, is what
25 we all want to do, but if we can't, we need to
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
79
1 minimize the damage and keep it away from our
2 homes.
3 This has been residential rural property
4 for more than my lifetime. My family has been
5 there, and I'm soon to be a senior citizen. And
6 my family has lived on this property; I'm living
7 on the property now. My next-door neighbor is
8 an elderly lady that cannot even come to the
9 meetings because it's painful to even watch her
10 try to come to her front door she's so
11 crippled. The lady on the other side had to
12 have emergency services two days ago, as did
13 another lady a few doors down.
14 We do not need this kind of neighbor in our
15 area.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
17 MS. PARA: Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: That's all the speaker
19 cards, so I'll close the public hearing.
20 To let the two ladies know, as Mr. Holt had
21 mentioned earlier, this is a land use change,
22 and the process with this is, after it leaves
23 here, it goes to the Department of Community
24 Affairs, which is the DCA. They have -- I can't
25 remember. I think it's 30 to 60 days to make
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
80
1 comments, and it comes back.
2 So, I mean, you guys have a significant
3 amount of time. It's easy -- an easy 90 days
4 before anything happens to this, maybe even
5 longer.
6 Notices will go out again. I believe it
7 goes out to a 350-foot range. So, Ms. Para, I
8 think you're the only one that will be notified
9 by mail.
10 But, ma'am, since we have your card, I will
11 make sure that the applicant -- and I'll
12 personally make sure that you get notice as well
13 because I have this (indicating).
14 I made that mistake before, saying that it
15 would go out and it never went out, so I'll make
16 sure that I lick the stamp myself.
17 So you'll know when this thing comes back,
18 but I would encourage you to get together with
19 the applicant and find out what's going on,
20 exactly what the details are. And you may find
21 out a way of making this palatable for you or
22 you may just decide that you just don't want it
23 and -- you know, we'll make that determination
24 in 90, 120 days, however long it is.
25 But I did want to share that with you, let
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
81
1 you know that this is not something that's going
2 to happen tonight.
3 MS. PARA: Thank you.
4 We just are concerned that we will have
5 adequate time to marshal our forces, and we
6 certainly will be meeting more with the
7 applicant.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let the record show
9 that she just was concerned that she didn't have
10 time to gather her forces and she will meet with
11 the applicant.
12 Okay. That being said, we're here to
13 transmit this. We closed the public hearing.
14 There's an amendment.
15 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment.
16 MR. JOOST: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
18 and seconded.
19 Mr. Hainline, do you need to hear the
20 amendment?
21 MR. HAINLINE: I'm familiar with the
22 amendment and we're in agreement with it.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All favor of the
24 amendment signify by saying aye.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
82
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
4 approved the amendment.
5 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
6 MR. JOOST: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
8 seconded as amended.
9 Any discussion on the bill?
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
12 ballot.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
17 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
83
1 approved the transmittal of 2009-237.
2 Can I make sure that -- somebody make sure
3 that these things go out? I'm holding who --
4 which one of you guys is going to raise your
5 hand? Because I'm going to come looking for
6 somebody.
7 MS. LAHMEUR: (Indicating.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: And, Stan, we can send them
9 three cards as need be.
10 All right. 2009- -- and the reason why I'm
11 making a point of this, because I said that for
12 something that went on in Heckscher Drive and it
13 never went out, and so I need to make sure I
14 take personal ownership for it when I say it.
15 2009-238 is deferred.
16 2009-239. We will open that public
17 hearing.
18 (Ms. McDonald approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. McDonald, it looks like
20 you're here for questions only?
21 MS. McDONALD: That's correct.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good woman.
23 MS. McDONALD: Susan McDonald, 1301
24 Riverplace Boulevard.
25 Questions only.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
84
1 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close that public
2 hearing.
3 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
4 MR. HOLT: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
6 seconded.
7 Any discussion?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
10 ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
15 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
21 the vote.
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
24 approved 2009-239.
25 Now, Ms. McDonald, you know if there's
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
85
1 something you need to put on the record, you
2 have the time to do that.
3 MS. McDONALD: (Shakes head.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You're a better woman
5 than I even thought.
6 Bottom of page 10. 2009-240. We will open
7 that public hearing.
8 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hainline.
10 MR. HAINLINE: T.R. Hainline, 1301
11 Riverplace Boulevard.
12 I'm here to answer questions.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: You too are a good man.
14 We will close that public hearing.
15 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
16 MR. JOOST: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
18 seconded.
19 Any discussion on the bill?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
22 ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
86
1 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
2 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
6 (Committee ballot closed.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
8 the vote
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
11 approved 2009-240.
12 Top of page 11. 2009-241. We'll open the
13 public hearing.
14 Daniel Blanchard.
15 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Daniel Blanchard, 2926
17 Sandy Branch Lane, property owner/developer,
18 available for any questions.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: You too are a good man.
20 Thank you, sir.
21 We will close that public hearing.
22 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
23 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
25 seconded.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
87
1 Any discussion on the bill?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
4 ballot.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
9 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
18 approved 2009-241.
19 Mr. Kelly, we want to take that bill back
20 off the table that you guys were working on?
21 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
22 I believe the applicant left. I don't see
23 them.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
25 MR. KELLY: I did speak with them.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
88
1 Essentially, unfortunately, the lot was
2 split previously. So in order to get the
3 benefit of the lineal consanguinity, they'll
4 have to rerecord the entire parcel and provide
5 an easement, but that's the direction he's
6 headed, in order to do that.
7 I did notice too on the site plan, now that
8 I look at it, they're actually proposing a third
9 dwelling unit, so we would ask, from the
10 department's side, that you just move forward
11 with the denial of the waiver and we'll help
12 them on the other end for the lineal
13 consanguinity.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, would it be better for
15 the applicant if we withdrew this or should we
16 deny it?
17 MR. KELLY: Well, it could be withdrawn, I
18 guess, is fine. The only thing is the fees --
19 we would retain the fees, I think, at this
20 point. We've spent a lot of effort and --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll withdraw it without
22 fees.
23 Mr. Holt, are you fine with that?
24 MR. HOLT: Move withdrawal without fees.
25 MR. WEBB: Second.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
89
1 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
2 to withdraw.
3 So, Ms. Eller, are we fine with this?
4 MS. ELLER: (Indicating.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Any discussion on the
6 withdrawal?
7 We're on -- I'm sorry, we're taking
8 2009-193 off the table and we've moved to
9 withdraw it and we seconded it.
10 MR. WEBB: What is lineal consanguinity?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Hey, I can hardly say it, so
12 I know I don't know what it means.
13 All in favor of withdrawal -- sorry.
14 Open the ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
90
1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
3 withdrawn 2009-193.
4 Sorry about that, members.
5 Let's go back to page 11. 2009-242. We
6 will open that public hearing.
7 (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: And Mr. Hainline, I think,
9 is here for more than just questions only.
10 MR. HAINLINE: T.R. Hainline, 1301
11 Riverplace Boulevard.
12 If I may ask, Mr. Graham, did anyone else
13 sign a card or anything --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
15 MR. HAINLINE: -- to speak? Okay.
16 Again, T.R. Hainline, 1301 Riverplace
17 Boulevard.
18 The Planning Department, Planning
19 Commission and the CPAC have all recommended
20 approval of this.
21 I did have a chance to speak with Ms. Lee
22 just before this meeting, and she has asked me
23 to agree -- which we're happy to agree -- that
24 there will not be residential uses within this
25 PUD.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
91
1 This is a large piece that has office and
2 commercial uses across the street to the east.
3 It has commercial uses to the south, a church to
4 the west, a school to the north.
5 So we're happy to agree that there won't be
6 any residential uses in there. When we come
7 back with the zoning, we'll be limiting those
8 uses to CGC and CO-type uses, retail, office,
9 maybe some flex space, that kind of thing.
10 So I want to state that for the record.
11 I'm happy to memorialize that agreement in any
12 other way, but I want to make sure that Ms. Lee
13 knows that what I said to her is what I'm saying
14 to you, which is that we will not be doing
15 residential uses on this property. All the uses
16 will be nonresidential, of a CGC -- CGC nature
17 and a CO nature, office kind of nature, office,
18 retail, and stuff that's allowed in CGC.
19 So I'm happy to answer any questions, but
20 the main thing I want to do is just make sure
21 everybody knows -- tell you all what I've told
22 Ms. Lee.
23 Happy to answer any questions.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: So did Ms. Lee indicate that
25 she was fine moving forward?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
92
1 MR. HAINLINE: She was fine moving forward
2 with -- understanding that there would be no
3 residential uses in it.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Hold on a
5 second.
6 Dr. Gaffney.
7 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 Just for clarity, so no low rental
9 apartments --
10 MR. HAINLINE: No residential uses,
11 period.
12 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you.
13 MR. HAINLINE: That was -- I was -- I had a
14 discussion with Ms. Lee on that very subject.
15 No residential uses, period.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Hold tight.
17 We'll close the public hearing.
18 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
19 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
21 seconded.
22 Any further discussion on the bill?
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
25 ballot.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
93
1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
5 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
9 (Committee ballot closed.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
11 the vote.
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 approved 2009-242.
15 2009-243. We will open that public
16 hearing.
17 (Ms. Hipps approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Hipps, we have some
19 people in opposition. Would you like to speak
20 before or after them?
21 MS. HIPPS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
22 I'd like to speak before and then answer
23 questions after, if that's okay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sounds good. Go ahead.
25 MS. HIPPS: I have some materials if you'd
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
94
1 wait to start my time here.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
3 MS. HIPPS: Alberta Hipps, 1650 Margaret
4 Street, 32204.
5 This is a land use amendment request. The
6 City of Jacksonville has recently identified
7 deficiency in industrial land uses in the city
8 in its comprehensive plan and states in its --
9 the policies [sic] 3.2.27, that the City shall
10 update its land development regulations to
11 ensure compatibility of land uses near airports,
12 in new [sic] incompatibility uses such as
13 residential uses in places of public assembly
14 shall be limited, and where incompatible land
15 use categories or zoning designations in
16 proximity to airports, the City shall support
17 changes to the future land use map or rezoning
18 to replace incompatible land uses with
19 compatible uses.
20 This 2009-243 is a land use amendment
21 request for 158 acres. There's a map that you
22 can refer to that is behind the comments that
23 I'm referring to now.
24 I would like for you to look at the
25 ordinance for the Montgomery -- or the Timucuan
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
95
1 south land -- LI use. It's marked 2009-154 land
2 use and the 2009-155 PUD. The property under
3 these ordinances had no access to Lem Turner,
4 and this property was put through in a -- an
5 approved land use amendment and the rezonings
6 with the par- -- with the statement in the
7 Planning Department's report that the parcel
8 does not currently have a connection to the
9 existing Arnold Road and access to Arnold Road
10 is contingent upon the adjacent barren land
11 industrial park PUD construction dedicating an
12 extension of Arnold Road and currently accesses
13 through Parrot Road, which access will not be
14 allowed.
15 So it went on to say that the City is
16 committed to making the complete connection from
17 the roadway, from the western point of the
18 parcel of Lem Turner Road to Braddock Road/Lem
19 Turner Road intersection and the road will
20 provide access to all of the land use amendments
21 off of Arnold Road.
22 With that information and knowing that that
23 land use amendment and companion PUD allow 300
24 and -- I mean, 3.2 million square feet of
25 industrial uses was authorized, which is
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
96
1 dependent on that roadway access that is not in
2 place today, it's dependent on access through
3 other parcels, and is adjacent to the Braddock
4 property and was approved for LI.
5 Now, the Braddock family is -- will be
6 represented here today. In discussing this,
7 they were not evidently notified when that LI
8 was put forth as the land use amendment.
9 I'm asking for your approval today and
10 would be glad to respond to any questions you
11 have.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Hipps.
13 Jeff Ferguson.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
16 Jeff Ferguson, 6101 Gazebo Park Place
17 North.
18 I'm the applicant, here on behalf of the
19 owner. I'll go ahead and just defer and speak
20 after the other people speak, and I'm here to
21 answer questions.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, if we need answers to
23 questions, we will, but you're not -- you can't
24 defer your time. We can give you three minutes
25 now or not.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
97
1 MR. FERGUSON: Well, Ms. Hipps covered the
2 things I was going to cover.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
4 MR. FERGUSON: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Susan Renard.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Renard (pronouncing.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Renard. Sorry, ma'am.
8 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
10 record, and you have three minutes.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Susan Renard.
12 My address is 7955 Little Fox Lane.
13 Mr. Chairman and committee members, thank
14 you for the privilege to speak today.
15 I represent the Braddock family, who owns
16 over 2,000 acres. Our property is contiguous to
17 the applicants on both the south and the east
18 and on both the east and west side of
19 Lem Turner.
20 We object to this proposed amendment from
21 low density residential to light industrial on
22 the land use plan and we urge you to deny it, as
23 the Planning and Development Department staff
24 has recommended and the Planning Commission has
25 recommended.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
98
1 We have met with the applicant in good
2 faith in an effort to resolve our differences.
3 And we are hopeful, with continued discussion,
4 that that will be successful, but we're not at
5 that point yet. And so, at this time, we are
6 urging you to deny this application.
7 The staff report submitted by the Planning
8 and Development Department provides many
9 competent and professional reasons why your
10 committee and the City Council should deny the
11 amendment.
12 We support the staff report and the
13 Planning Commission recommendations and suggest
14 you do so for a number of reasons:
15 First, the proposed amendment is
16 inconsistent with many, many policies and
17 objectives of the comprehensive plan. So many
18 it would take me over three minutes of my time
19 to just -- just to list them.
20 Second, the proposed amendment is
21 inconsistent with the North Jacksonville Shared
22 Vision Plan because of the land use
23 incompatibilities it creates.
24 Third, the proposed amendment is
25 inconsistent with the Strategic Regional Policy
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
99
1 Plan of the state comprehensive plan, something
2 that is required in Florida.
3 Fifth and most importantly to our family
4 who has owned property, farmed and lived on this
5 land in this area for 130 years and care about
6 what happens in this area of North Jacksonville,
7 it is out of character with the uses of the land
8 in the area, out of character with what is
9 envisioned, and could have a significant
10 negative and adverse impact on the area.
11 Right now the whole area has been rural and
12 agricultural. Over the past 20 years, there
13 have been a few low density residential
14 developments.
15 A light industrial designation which will
16 allow such uses as manufacturing, warehousing,
17 waste facilities, and concrete batch plants
18 would result in a drastic and negative change in
19 the type of character of development in this
20 area of Lem Turner Road today.
21 It's one thing to talk about residential
22 development and supporting commercial and office
23 uses in this area, which our family believes
24 would be consistent and has supported if well
25 planned, but light industrial development is
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
100
1 completely out of character with this area.
2 Secondly, light industrial and industrial
3 development will generate significantly more
4 truck traffic on Lem Turner Road, heavy truck
5 traffic that can have a significant and --
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am.
7 MS. RENARD: -- negative impact.
8 Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Jim Huntley.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jim Huntley, 15331
13 Cape Drive North, Jacksonville.
14 My family, as Susan has said -- I'm her
15 cousin. We own about 2,400 acres, some of it
16 adjacent to this property, and I own -- my
17 brother and I own the land that's adjacent to
18 this property.
19 Several years ago, the council rejected a
20 similar piece of legislation on property
21 adjacent to us, down Braddock Road, just
22 because -- well, for the same reasons. It is
23 out of character with the property that's there
24 now.
25 This thing is 15-plus miles from the Blount
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
101
1 Island entrance. It's -- we own from the mile
2 ahead of this property, and then it's three
3 miles from that, so it's four miles from 295.
4 The truck traffic is going to be out of
5 control. And if it's -- my understanding is
6 correct, the only concurrency on any of these
7 roads is the -- Lem Turner from Braddock Road to
8 the county line.
9 The surrounding bulk of that land is zoned
10 agriculture. As Ms. Hipps said, there has been
11 some changes to the east. And our land, in
12 which we hope will be developed as an asset to
13 the Northside at some point, is the property
14 that lays on both sides of Lem Turner.
15 We have developed two small subdivisions of
16 high -- what we believe are high quality on
17 Braddock Road, and we foresee that area being
18 developed that way.
19 As we talked about the concurrency,
20 Lem Turner is a racetrack from 295 to Nassau
21 County. And the traffic burden south to 295,
22 again, it's my understanding, there's no
23 concurrency left.
24 We support rezoning of the property that
25 will bring an asset to Duval County and to the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
102
1 area. We've owned that land for a great deal of
2 time.
3 We are going to meet with Alberta Hipps and
4 their representatives, but we ask for now that
5 it be rejected.
6 Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
8 Seeing no further speakers, we will close
9 that public hearing.
10 Mr. Holt.
11 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12 I had a meeting today with Ms. Hipps and
13 Mr. Ferguson and Ms. Renard, and it was my
14 understanding coming out of that that we had
15 come to an agreement that we would move forward
16 with this tonight and that they would speak this
17 coming week and try to work out some of these
18 details, and I'm in support of that.
19 This is a transmittal to Tallahassee, and I
20 have Ms. Hipps' word that they're going to work
21 together with the Braddock family. And I
22 believe Ms. Renard referred to that earlier,
23 that they will want to work with Ms. Hipps and
24 try to come to some agreements on what would and
25 would not be allowed on the property down the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
103
1 road.
2 If they're not able to work out their
3 differences by next week at council, I don't see
4 myself supporting it. But as of right now, I'm
5 going to support this transmittal in committee
6 just to move it forward, and then we'll see
7 where it goes during this coming week, and I'm
8 sure they'll be in contact with me.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Just as long as we're not
11 going to do any committee work on the floor next
12 Tuesday. I guess we're just going to go with an
13 up or down?
14 MR. HOLT: We'll straighten it all out this
15 week.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. That being said,
17 Planning Department, let's hear why you want to
18 deny.
19 MR. CROFTS: I've asked Mr. Avery to -- if
20 he will, to pass out a map that basically shows
21 the location of this property and its context,
22 surrounding land uses, and the proximity of
23 adjacent -- not adjacent, but industrial changes
24 that have occurred in this particular area.
25 I think our report is -- our opinion, our
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
104
1 recommendation is reflected in our report to you
2 dated March 20th, but I will say that our
3 position of nonsupport is -- this 160-acre
4 parcel hinges upon the principles of this light
5 industrial use, which includes manufacturing,
6 packaging, building trade contractors, warehouse
7 and distribution, at this time. This is a land
8 use amendment, so all these things are taken
9 into consideration.
10 There are problems with this proposal in
11 terms of compatibility with the surrounding uses
12 and the compact land use pattern that we see in
13 this area, or we're stressing for in our
14 comprehensive plan, plus the fact that it's just
15 disjointed and isolated from existing uses there
16 in its locational perspective.
17 At this point, we're focusing, again, on
18 the bigger picture in terms of compatibility and
19 the optimum location and the merit -- not the
20 merits of the PUD, but -- which is something
21 that will drill this proposal down further in
22 terms of access and buffers, but at this point
23 we're looking, again, at the broader land use
24 amendment in this location.
25 In our opinion, it's not consistent with
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
105
1 the character of the area, which is low density
2 residential, AGR types of uses, or as mentioned
3 previously by some of the opposition,
4 undeveloped agricultural or silviculture-type
5 uses.
6 We feel that the area to the east, for some
7 distance, and to the south and southwest has
8 great potential for residential uses, and this
9 particular proposal would be disruptive and
10 contrary to that trend.
11 We acknowledge that there has been a
12 terrific trend of industrial uses in the North
13 Planning District in the past several submittals
14 of land use amendments, and that, as of
15 recently, included up to and including or
16 encompassing more than ten million square feet
17 of industrial warehouse development in the last
18 two semiannual series amendments alone, but we'd
19 like to point out --
20 And that's the point of the map, that these
21 particular proposals are at least a mile or a
22 mile and a half away from the subject site, and
23 we feel that there's no justification for more,
24 in light of the circumstances, of compatibility,
25 lack of transition and uses, the isolation of
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
106
1 this particular proposed use from similar uses
2 and really the need to maintain adequate land in
3 this general location at this time for
4 residential uses.
5 For these reasons and for the points
6 outlined in our report, again, we recommend
7 denial of this application.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
9 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: No? Just calling to see if
11 you're still good.
12 MR. HOLT: Still good.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Webb.
14 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 You know, I'm going to support Mr. Holt in
16 this, but I do give deference to the Planning
17 Department in reference to the overall land
18 use.
19 You know, again, whether or not, you know,
20 there's ultimately something that could be
21 amicably worked out between the parties is all
22 well and good, but --
23 You know, again, I'm going to support
24 Councilman Holt in this, but it just seems to me
25 that, you know, there's -- there are citywide
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
107
1 issues as to overall land uses here and
2 appropriate uses and appropriate area and
3 planning that's gone into -- planning that's
4 gone into -- consideration of the planning
5 that's gone in and the work of the Planning
6 Department.
7 Again, I will support Councilman Holt, but
8 just want to raise that issue of concern. You
9 know, we're concerned about inconsistent uses
10 and ad hoc approach to development and planning
11 and -- just as an observation.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, the -- the advantage
13 of this being a land use change, which is a
14 policy decision, compared to a rezoning, which
15 is quasi-judicial, is -- pretty much you can do
16 what you want.
17 MR. WEBB: I agree. I understand.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
19 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
20 I just wanted to reemphasize that we're
21 going to take a look at this over the next week
22 and we're going to try to work out any issues,
23 and I think it's fair that we give them that
24 opportunity to work it out over the week and
25 bring this back to council next week.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
108
1 I also wanted to ask Mr. Crofts a question,
2 kind of on the policy side, and compare this to
3 some of the other areas where we see the light
4 industrial next to a lot of agricultural. And
5 I'm thinking over on Pritchard Road at the
6 Westlake development, a lot of that surrounding
7 the light industrial is agricultural. Is there
8 some difference between those two -- these two
9 locations?
10 MR. CROFTS: If you're asking me the
11 relationship of the proposed industrial and its
12 adjacentness to agriculture-type uses, I think
13 in this -- in this particular case, we envision
14 this area -- has great potential for
15 residential, and so that's, I guess, the
16 difference.
17 In the Pritchard Road situation, I think
18 it's a matter of -- or I-295 and Pritchard Road,
19 more of the -- it's more of a massing, and I
20 think it's always been part of our planning and
21 projections and CSX, the railroad I should say,
22 as well as the highways. And that area, that
23 quadrant, if you will, has always been more or
24 less targeted for that development. And we've
25 seen it, you know, from planning origins and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
109
1 history over time, and it sort of fits in better
2 to us there.
3 But in this particular case, if you ask me
4 about the relationship, sure there's similarity
5 between the industrial and the agricultural.
6 It's not so much that today, but what we see in
7 the future that sort of divorces this from that
8 situation.
9 MR. HOLT: Okay. That makes sense to me.
10 Thank you.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Gaffney.
12 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 I just wanted to expound on -- Councilman
14 Holt, I want to support him at this time.
15 I do know the Braddocks are the very
16 prominent family on the Northside and people
17 really think highly of them, so I would hope
18 that the two applicants can come through with
19 some type of amicable situation. And,
20 therefore, for the time being I am going to
21 support it; however, with the understanding that
22 they will get together and work out their
23 differences.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other lights on --
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
110
1 I didn't even get a motion on this thing.
2 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
3 MR. JOOST: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
5 seconded.
6 Seeing no further discussion, please open
7 the ballot.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. JOOST: (Votes nay.)
11 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
12 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
18 the vote.
19 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, one nay.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
21 approved 2009-243.
22 I have to apologize to staff. I just saw
23 Mr. Seibold come in and it dawned on me that you
24 guys are still sitting here waiting on the EAR.
25 I do apologize because I didn't mean to do
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
111
1 this.
2 Committee members, let's go to page 12,
3 bottom of the page. 2009-248.
4 We will open that public hearing.
5 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
6 public hearing.
7 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
8 MR. WEBB: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
10 seconded.
11 Any discussion on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
112
1 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
3 approved 2009-248.
4 I do apologize. I just -- I saw Vince walk
5 in, and it just dawned on me why you guys are
6 here. And I didn't mean to make you do what you
7 did, but at least now you get to see what all
8 the things you guys approve. You get to live
9 our life at least once.
10 Thank you.
11 Let's go back to the bottom of page 11.
12 2009-244. We'll open that public hearing.
13 Susan McDonald.
14 (Ms. McDonald approaches the podium.)
15 MS. McDONALD: Susan McDonald, 1301
16 Riverplace Boulevard.
17 I'm here for questions, but I just wanted
18 to be sure that the amendment that we agreed
19 upon to cap commercial is at 350,000 square
20 feet.
21 MS. ELLER: I'll check.
22 Through the Chair to Ms. McDonald, I have
23 the recommendation to approve it with an
24 asterisk, which changes the name and revises
25 policy 4.311.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
113
1 The version that's in the staff report does
2 have the 200,000, I believe. So if John Crofts
3 will just concur that we're looking at the CGC
4 at 350,000 as opposed to 200,000.
5 Is that correct?
6 MR. CROFTS: Yes, that is correct.
7 I apologize for not articulating that to
8 you, but that is, in fact, the -- part of the
9 amendment.
10 MS. ELLER: And, Mr. Chairman, if it
11 pleases the committee, I will -- when I type up
12 that amendment, if I could e-mail it to
13 Ms. McDonald and just get her sign-off on that
14 language. I believe I understand that it is the
15 policy as typed in the staff report with the
16 modification to 350,000.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Does that sound good?
18 MS. McDONALD: Absolutely.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Well, hold on
21 tight.
22 We'll close that public hearing.
23 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
24 MR. JOOST: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
114
1 and seconded.
2 Any further discussion on the amendment?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
5 say aye.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
10 the amendment.
11 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
12 MR. JOOST: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
14 seconded as amended.
15 Any further discussion on the bill?
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
18 ballot.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
23 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
115
1 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
2 (Committee ballot closed.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
4 the vote.
5 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
7 approved 2009-244.
8 Thank you, Ms. McDonald.
9 Top of page 12. 2009-245.
10 Ms. McDonald again.
11 We will open that public hearing.
12 MS. McDONALD: Susan McDonald, 1301
13 Riverplace Boulevard.
14 For questions only.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good woman.
16 We'll close that public hearing, seeing no
17 questions.
18 MR. WEBB: Move the amendment.
19 MR. JOOST: Second.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment's been moved
21 and seconded.
22 Do you need to hear the amendment, ma'am?
23 MS. McDONALD: No, I do not.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor of the
25 amendment signify by saying aye.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
116
1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
5 the amendment.
6 MR. WEBB: Move the bill as amended.
7 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
9 seconded as amended.
10 Seeing no questions, please open the
11 ballot.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
16 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
22 the vote.
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 approved 2009-245.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
117
1 2009-246. We will open that public
2 hearing.
3 We have Jennifer Hewett --
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: How do you say your last
6 name?
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jennifer Hewett-Apperson.
8 Here for questions only.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good woman.
10 Thank you very much.
11 Carmen Goodman [sic].
12 MS. GODWIN: (Indicating.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: She's swinging her arms,
14 saying that she loves this project.
15 Seeing no other speakers, we'll close the
16 public hearing.
17 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
18 MR. JOOST: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
20 seconded.
21 Any discussion on the bill?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
24 ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
118
1 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
4 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 approved -246.
14 Thank you very much.
15 MS. HEWETT-APPERSON: Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: -247, we will open that
17 public hearing.
18 No speakers, we'll close that public
19 hearing.
20 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
21 MR. JOOST: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill's been moved and
23 seconded.
24 Any discussion on the bill?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
119
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
2 ballot.
3 (Committee ballot opened.)
4 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
7 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
13 the vote.
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
16 approved -247.
17 -248. We'll open the public hearing.
18 Seeing no speakers -- oh, we've already
19 done that.
20 MR. JOOST: (Inaudible.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: There you go.
22 Okay. Top of page 11 [sic]. -249, -250,
23 -251, -252 are deferred.
24 -253, -254, -255, -284 -- I'm sorry, -255
25 is deferred. Those -- I'm sorry, -253, -4,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
120
1 and -5 are deferred.
2 -284, -285, -286, -287, -288, -289,
3 -290 --
4 MR. JOOST: You have a sub on -286.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: It doesn't say so on mine.
6 (Ms. Lahmeur confers with Chairman Graham.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Let's back up.
8 -284, -285 are second and rereferred.
9 -286, there's a sub.
10 MR. WEBB: Move the sub.
11 MR. JOOST: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: The sub's been moved and
13 seconded.
14 All in favor of the sub signify by saying
15 aye.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved the sub.
21 MR. WEBB: Move to rerefer.
22 MR. JOOST: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Move to rerefer as
24 substituted.
25 Any -- did I get a second?
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
121
1 MR. JOOST: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: A second.
3 Any further discussion?
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
6 ballot.
7 (Committee ballot opened.)
8 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
11 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
17 the vote.
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
20 rereferred -286 as substituted.
21 Do we have any other substitutes on here?
22 MR. CROFTS: No, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. -287, -288, -289,
24 -290 are second and rereferred.
25 Page 16. -291, -292, -293, -294, -295 are
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
122
1 second and rereferred.
2 -296, -297, -298, -299 are second and
3 rereferred.
4 That all being said, once again, please
5 tell your guys I apologize for the EAR. It
6 completely slipped my mind. I saw them all
7 sitting there with their heads dangling. I
8 meant to send them home a long time ago.
9 With that all being said, I'm going to send
10 you guys home.
11 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
12 6:55 p.m.)
13 - - -
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
123
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
5
6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 12th day of April, 2009.
11
12
13
14 Diane M. Tropia
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203