1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Wednesday, January 21,
7 2009, commencing at 5:04 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 ART GRAHAM, Chair.
STEPHEN JOOST, Vice Chair.
14 REGGIE BROWN, Committee Member.
JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.
15 RAY HOLT, Committee Member.
JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
16 DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
17
ALSO PRESENT:
18
RICHARD CLARK, City Council, Vice President.
19 JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
20 FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
21
RICK CAMPBELL, Research Assistant.
22 MARILYN ALLEN, Legislative Assistant.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
23
- - -
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 January 21, 2009 5:04 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, everybody.
5 Welcome to the Land Use and Zoning
6 Committee meeting.
7 Let the record show it's Wednesday,
8 January 21st, at about 5 o'clock.
9 And if we can start over here on the right
10 with John Crofts, and let's introduce ourselves.
11 MR. CROFTS: Good evening.
12 My name is John Crofts, and I'm deputy
13 director of the Planning Department.
14 Thank you.
15 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
16 Development.
17 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
18 Development.
19 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
20 Development.
21 MS. ELLER: Shannon Eller from the Office
22 of General Counsel.
23 And we also have Megan Frenski (phonetic)
24 and Zachary Schaefer (phonetic) from the
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
3
1 interns.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Welcome.
3 MR. CLARK: Richard Clark, for
4 informational purposes only.
5 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, Council
6 District 4.
7 DR. GAFFNEY: Councilman Gaffney,
8 District 7.
9 MR. HOLT: Ray Holt, District 11.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm Art Graham, District 13.
11 MR. JOOST: Stephen Joost, Group 3
12 at-large.
13 MR. BROWN: Councilman Reginald Brown,
14 District 10.
15 MR. WEBB: City Council representative,
16 Jack Webb, District 6.
17 Mr. Chairman, I would like to recognize or
18 warn you of the fact that Councilman -- Vice
19 President Clark was with us yesterday in Finance
20 and it quickly devolved into chaos, so I'll just
21 give you fair warning.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, that's why I'm going
23 to take care of Vice President Clark first and
24 send him out before he causes chaos.
25 That all being said, let's go to Councilman
Diane M. Tropia,
4
1
2 Bottom of page 3, 2007-1086. We will open
3 that public hearing.
4 We have
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, members of
7 the committee, my name is
8 with the Law Firm of Lewis, Longman & Walker,
9 and I am representing the property owner here,
10 Mitigation Properties.
11 In this request, we've requested a rezoning
12 from CO to CCG-1. It's a 2.37-acre parcel on
15 We conferred before we filed the
16 application with Councilman Clark, who was the
17 councilman representing the district. He was in
18 support of our request. The planning staff was
19 more comfortable with a PUD. We modified it,
20 even though we -- our desire was to proceed
21 under CCG-1. CCG is indicated on the future
22 land use map, so the CCG-1 is consistent with
23 what's provided in the future land use map.
24 In any event, in further conversation with
25 Councilman Clark, he indicated that it was his
Diane M.
Tropia,
5
1 belief and position that CCG-1 was the
2 appropriate rezoning. So, at his
3 recommendation, it was modified.
4 We had a recommendation against the CCG-1
5 by the planning staff. We do believe that it's
6 appropriate and consistent, and we have the
7 support of Councilman Clark on the request. So
8 I would request that you consider his position
9 and recommendation and that you would approve
10 this request.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no further
12 speakers, we will close the public hearing.
13 And it looks like we have a denial from
14 Planning Commission and Planning Department,
15 so -- Mr. Clark, did you want to go before or
16 after the Planning Department?
17 MR. CLARK: I'll wait.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Planning Department.
19 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
20 Through the Chair to the LUZ Committee,
21 this rezoning, as described by Mr. Flowers, went
22 through a number of steps and ultimately is back
23 in a conventional zoning sense. The department
24 wasn't supportive of the CCG-1. We felt that it
25 was really too intense for this, that it was a
Diane M. Tropia,
6
1 commercial intrusion adjacent to multifamily
2 development.
3 We also felt that it was representative of
4 continued strip development and felt that it was
5 inconsistent with numerous policies in the comp
6 plan within the future land use element in the
7 staff report.
8 We recommended denial for the conventional
9 rezoning to CCG-1.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
11 Mr. Clark.
12 MR. CLARK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
13 members of the committee.
14 First let me start by declaring ex-parte.
15 I had several meetings with the applicant as
16 they worked through the process. And my
17 suggestion, when it was originally -- when they
18 originally brought it to me and they wanted them
19 to go through the PUD process and all this other
20 stuff, I said this is -- this is the textbook
21 case for doing a conventional rezoning.
22 It's on
23 Huffman comes across from FCCJ. A tremendous
24 amount of automobile traffic comes out of that
25 right now.
Diane M.
Tropia,
7
1 You know, it's nice to say multifamily.
2 There's an apartment complex over there. It's
3 got a huge buffer. I mean, the amount of
4 acreage that they're rezoning, believe it or
5 not, they're going to be using a tiny, little
6 portion up front. The rest of this stuff is
7 wet. They can't use it. So they have one
8 section up front.
9 There won't be any strip center, per se.
10 You're going to have one building. CCG-1 would
11 allow them to do a gas station if they so
12 choose. There isn't a gas station for two miles
13 in either direction. And on
14 with the amount of auto traffic coming in and
15 out of FCCJ, the way the kids drive, with $2 or
16 whatever it is, they can put fuel in their car.
17 It's probably not a bad idea.
18 You know, I'm in full support of it. I
19 think CCG-1 and a conventional rezoning is
20 exactly what we need.
21 The Planning Department denial, I was -- or
22 the Planning Commission denial, I was told it
23 was three to two. It wasn't some slam-dunk.
24 So I would encourage you to support the
25 conventional rezoning.
Diane M.
Tropia,
8
1 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a question.
2 Before I go to Dr. Gaffney, I've got a
3 quick question for you. On the western side of
4 this lot, is that
5 to continue that through?
6 MR. CLARK: Yes.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes?
8 MR. CLARK: Yes.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: So, I mean, that's still
10 public right-of-way. Do you know --
11 MR. CLARK: It does not keep going. It
12 dead ends. All that's wet.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So that road is
14 not going to continue. I mean --
15 MR. CLARK: No. It's wet.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. It just looks like
17 it --
18 MR. CLARK: And all that property you see
19 behind them there, they own all that. The L
20 behind them, all that's that same piece. All
21 that's wet. Nothing is going to be developed
22 there. There's a natural buffer between where
23 they are and what's going on. And believe it
24 or -- obviously, you can see there's CCG-1 all
25 around it.
Diane M.
Tropia,
9
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we know who owns that
2 land on the other side of that?
3 MR. CLARK: The IBP-2?
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah.
5 MR. CLARK: The IBP-2 is the warehouses
6 that you see, where -- Venus and Pilot Pen and
7 all that stuff.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Gotcha.
9 Okay. All right. Dr. Gaffney.
10 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 Just one quick question to
12 Councilman Clark.
13 Have you met with the residents and they're
14 pretty okay with this?
15 MR. CLARK: Everybody I've talked to in
16 relation to this actually would like to see a
17 gas station, a place for them to go, and a
18 convenience store. They -- it's actually a
19 perfect location for it.
20 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I see -- I don't have any
22 other people on the queue, so --
23 MR. WEBB: Move the bill.
24 MR. BROWN: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 seconded.
2 No further discussion on the bill?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
14 the vote.
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nays.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved 2007-1086.
19 Thank you, Vice President Clark.
20 MR. CLARK: Let me get out of here before I
21 cause any trouble.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Next, let's turn to page 7,
23 about halfway down the page, 2008-840.
24 We will open that public hearing.
25 MR. JOOST: Mr. Chairman.
Diane M.
Tropia,
11
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
2 MR. JOOST: I have to recuse myself from
3 this issue. My company is in current possible
4 lease negotiations with the applicant.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Fair enough.
6 Did you fill out the necessary paperwork?
7 MR. JOOST: Yes. It's being filled out as
8 we speak.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Very good. Thank you,
10 Mr. Joost.
11 All right. Let's start off with
12 Michael Lee. Is there a Michael Lee in the
13 house?
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: He's parking his car.
15 He's not here just yet.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Cherie Lee.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Is Mrs. -- the other Lee
19 here?
20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, I am. I'd like to
21 defer my time to --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you can't give your
23 time to somebody else. You have three minutes
24 if you'd like to speak, ma'am.
25 If the rest of you guys are all part of
Diane M.
Tropia,
12
1 this group, please make your way down here. I
2 mean, there's plenty of seats across the front.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am.
5 Name and address for the record and you
6 have three minutes.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Cherie Lee.
8 My address is
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, can I get you to come
10 closer to that microphone.
11 MS. LEE: (Complies.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
13 MS. LEE: And my examples are in the car
14 that's being parked right now, so I do
15 apologize, but I have --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right, ma'am. We'll
17 let -- we'll hold you guys till last and let you
18 guys go when you have your stuff there.
19 MS. LEE: Okay. I appreciate that.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
21 MS. LEE: Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Paul Heeg.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
25 My name is Paul Heeg. I reside at 2784
Diane M.
Tropia,
13
1
3 Cove Homeowners Association.
4 Thank you for letting us speak.
5 I would like to express our opposition to
6 the ordinance upon you, 2008-840, and to express
7 our serious concerns with the recent
8 clear-cutting and ongoing construction. Over
9 the years, we have watched as
10 methodically purchases lots and applies for
11 rezonings, erects buildings and parking lots.
12 Exactly one year ago, the applicant
13 proposed a 7.6-acre westward expansion of the
14 office park. The ordinance was subsequently
15 withdrawn, but this year we're now concerned
16 about the intensification via the rezoning to a
17 PUD. So the pattern is one of very assertive
18 land use.
20 facility that is common along the JTB corridor,
21 such as
22 We feel that it's not germane to the surrounding
23 land use.
24 The PUD before you was heard on
25 December 11th, and the Planning Commission
Diane M.
Tropia,
14
1 addressed it. The applicant stated the
2 following -- it's on page 126 of the
3 transcript: That is for two two-story buildings
4 with retail on the first floor and offices on
5 the second. One building has been built and has
6 been open. Those uses, the CRO-type uses -- a
7 deli, a dry cleaner, I don't know. There's a
8 couple of things that are going in there. Those
9 are the kind of things we want to be able to
10 offer in the rest of the park, unquote.
11 Well, these buildings refer to -- they're
12 actually three-story buildings, but the PUD
13 would apply to the entire office park, and those
14 land use types would be perpetuated well into
15 the -- near the residential neighborhoods.
16 The current commercial offices are open
17 during business hours, generally 8:00 to 5:00.
18 This proposed land use intensification would
19 increase the activity. It would allow activity
20 during nights and weekends, thus further
21 intruding on the neighborhoods, the adjacent
22 neighborhoods.
23 The Planning Department's report
24 recommended a 50-foot buffer around the entire
25 perimeter. The Planning Commission's final
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 recommendation was to approve the original PUD
2 limits but limit the landscape buffer to the
3 southern portion.
4 While we agree with that wholeheartedly,
5 that the buffer is increased to 50, we feel that
6 the buffer should be also applied to the
7 existing neighborhoods of Chelsea Cove and
8 Sutton Grove. We feel the 50-foot buffer should
9 be applied to the entire perimeter.
10 So our Chelsea Cove Homeowners Association
11 resolved this week that the
12 should not have been approved and constructed in
13 its current fashion. We feel let down by our
14 previous councilwoman and the City several years
15 ago.
16 Again, we feel it's not germane to Mandarin
17 and it's in violation of the future land use
18 element. We feel the further intensification of
19 uses is unacceptable unless significant
20 provisions are made to reduce visual blight and
21 retaining the integrity of existing
22 neighborhoods.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
25 Dana Myers.
Diane M.
Tropia,
16
1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
3 My name is Dana Myers. I currently reside
4 at
5 opposed to this proposal.
6 As I thought about what I would say today,
7 I ran across a quote from Margaret Mitchell that
8 said, "I was never one to patiently pick up
9 broken fragments and glue them together again
10 and tell myself that the mended whole was as
11 good as the new. What is broken is broken. And
12 I'd rather remember it as it was at its best
13 and" -- "at its best and mended it and see all
14 the broken pieces."
15 The first time that I drove down Mandarin
17 sitting exposed to the busyness of
18 first reaction was to question, why would
19 someone do that to someone else?
20 When I look at the backs of the homes of
21 Sutton Grove with the dumpsters crammed in every
22 little cranny nearly in the backyards of those
23 homes, clearly the spirit behind it is broken or
24 the process that allows that to happen is
25 broken.
Diane M.
Tropia,
17
1 The
2 three residential neighborhoods. As indicative
3 of all their proposals, they have not been good
4 neighbors. Please contain this free radical and
5 stop it from spreading through our neighborhoods
6 and deny this proposal.
7 I ask you today to reconsider the 50-foot
8 buffer along the entire development. If not,
9 we'll be back in the same place when their
10 plans, once again, morph into something
11 different.
12 Sometimes I know it's hard to have empathy
13 for a man when you don't walk in his shoes or
14 experience what he experiences. But before you
15 make your decision, please put yourself in our
16 place and consider our plight. Our homes are
17 our refuge, our sanctuary, our dwelling place,
18 as well as the environment that it occupies.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
21 Eleanor Treadwell.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let the record show
24 that she does not wish to speak.
25 Michael Freeman.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I don't want to speak.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record show he does
3 not want to speak.
4 Marc Freeman.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
7 record, please. You have three minutes.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
9 My name is Marc Freeman, 13459 Owl Hollow
10 Court in Mandarin.
11 I'm not as eloquent as the previous
12 speakers and I am opposed to the
13 project mainly because of the way it will affect
14 Mandarin, the way it has affected Mandarin, and
15 their proposed policy of continually changing
16 what they want to do so that they can slide the
17 project through at some point.
18 The people who live in that area, it is
19 their homes. They're under pressure to fight
20 this progress and oppose it, but they're not as
21 organized as someone who has an agent and comes
22 before you and tries to get it through.
23 You have a duty to them, representing them,
24 to protect them and help them with their way of
25 life, and I'm hoping that you'll see their
Diane M.
Tropia,
19
1 points and what they're saying and see that this
2 project is modified to meet their demands or
3 conditions to get it to go through.
4 Thank you very much.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
6 Pat Freeman.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: This rezoning is not just
9 about a dance studio.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, I need your name and
11 address for the record, please.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Pat Freeman, 13459
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
15 MS. FREEMAN: This rezoning is not just
16 about a dance studio in
17 more. It's about years of disorderly growth,
18 incremental intensification and piecemeal
19 rezonings. It's about a developer who has
20 over built and now wants to squeeze out profits
21 at the expense of his neighbors, causing them
22 permanent harm.
23 It's about losing a buffer and making a bad
24 situation even worse. It's about adverse
25 impacts, diminished quality of life, and
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 increasing nuisances that far outweighs the
2 monetary value for the developer. It's about
3 buildings that belong on JTB, not in Mandarin.
4 It's about unfairness, when wetlands are
5 destroyed legally with mitigation payments while
6 an adjacent owner can't do anything with his
7 wetlands. It's about a written description
8 that's been revised three times with
9 cherry-picking in and out of parcels for
10 inclusion, amendments to legal descriptions,
11 avoidance of conditions, and changes in uses.
12 It's about a written description with
13 misleading statements for external compatibility
14 that fails to mention the three surrounding and
15 established neighborhoods, which is critical
16 criterion for comprehensive plan consistency.
17 It's about misapplication of a PUD that's
18 too little and too late. It's about the purpose
19 of PUD flexibility when flexibility has been
20 abused. And it's about questions that need to
21 be answered, exactly how will this rezoning
22 benefit neighborhoods or improve the surrounding
23 areas?
24 And, finally, it's about Sharon Copeland's
25 legacy of failure to the community and people
Diane M.
Tropia,
21
1 who believe the system is broken and a developer
2 who will come back again and again to ask for
3 more and more. And it's about time to finally
4 say no.
5 The current zoning is reasonable. It does
6 not decrease his investment-backed expectations
7 and does not preclude reasonable uses.
8 Ask anyone if our rezoning should be
9 changed for one dance studio, and the answer
10 will always be no.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
13 Kevin Meyer.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
16 record, please.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Kevin Meyer. I live at
19 property in discussion tonight.
20 I wanted to just come up and speak to the
21 panel in strong opposition to the rezoning for
22 many, many reasons. Here recently, there was
23 some just blatant clearing of the land, exposed
24 a lot of homes that I'd not even seen before.
25 In addition, I've lived in Mandarin for
Diane M.
Tropia,
22
1 about three years now. And over the past year,
2 I've been in this room many times in opposition
3 to this and opposition to some other items, and
4 I have to recall back to one of the meetings
5 that I was in. A member on the council was
6 speaking about property going out towards
7 Amelia Island, along Heckscher Drive, and he
8 gave a great commentary on how Heckscher Drive
9 in that area is unique. It's unique to the
10 state of
11 unique to the country.
12 I look at Mandarin. It's the same way. It
13 is a unique community and a unique spot in the
14 city of
15 States. And it seems like we're continually
16 getting a barrage of requests from developers
17 trying to sneak in the back door, trying to make
18 plans that the community doesn't want, the
19 community doesn't wish to have. And we've got
20 to put a stop to it somehow, some way.
21 Please say no to the request to rezoning on
22 this parcel of property.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
25 Is Dr. Lee here yet?
Diane M.
Tropia,
23
1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on down, sir.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I need your name and address
5 for the record.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Michael Lee.
7 I live on Chelsea Cove, and I share a 6-foot
8 fence with
9 didn't, but I do.
10 I moved here a number of years ago, prior
11 to the
12 have assimilated into a great community. The
13 Myers, the Woodrings, the Heegs are all really
14 good people.
15 We bought our property because of the
16 atmosphere, because of the trees. My wife and I
17 call our property the
18 a stamp. All of our mail going out has the
19
20 interesting, whimsical little statues all
21 throughout the backyard, children's swing for
22 the grandchildren. We wanted to die here. We
23 thought this was a really great place to be.
24 What's happened, if any of you haven't seen
25
Diane M. Tropia,
24
1 treeless, plantless desolation is the
2 development. It comes right up to our door.
3 I asked a year ago -- over a year ago for
4 an 8-foot fence. Blue Way, the head of their
5 construction, and I rode together over to my
6 fence. It's interesting -- this is a picture of
7 one edge of my fence (indicating). They've got
8 an 8-foot fence going up to my property. My
9 property is a 6-foot wood fence, then it hits
10 the next property, it's 8 feet again.
11 I don't know whether this is a childish
12 tirade or a vindictiveness or whatever it is,
13 but doesn't it seem odd to you that my property
14 would have only the 6-foot fence, the other
15 properties have 8-foot fences?
16 This is a picture of the developer's house
17 (indicating). He has it between an 8- and
18 10-foot hedge around his house with an
19 impenetrable metal fence inside of it.
20 We've been talking about buffers. We've
21 been talking about fences on the south side of
22 the property. We're on the north side of the
23 property. We're hidden. We need the same kind
24 of dignity, the same kind of importance to our
25 dreams.
The
Diane M.
Tropia,
25
1 the owner and the developer has at his own
2 property.
3 We think that if we can convince you to
4 really look at the pictures, look at the
5 desolation he's leaving us versus 10-foot hedges
6 around his house.
7 Thank you very much.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
9 Sir, can we get you to pass those pictures
10 around so we can see those?
11 MR. LEE: Absolutely.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Unless your wife needs to
13 use them for her presentation.
14 MR. LEE: I think with all the hassle, she
15 got scared off.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
17 Ms. Lee, you're not speaking?
18 (Ms. Lee approaches the podium.)
19 MS. LEE: My name is Cherie Lee, and I live
20 at
21 I just wanted to say how much I'm opposed
22 to
23 moved here several years ago and we love the
24 property, and we saw Mandarin as a community
25 that was filled with people that had like
Diane M.
Tropia,
26
1 interests as well as a lot of conveniences. And
2 over the last few years, the conveniences have
3 turned into just traffic hassles and
4 construction. And, for us, it's starting to
5 become another Blanding.
6 One thing that wasn't mentioned in this
7 desolation is how much the noise and the light
8 has increased. We have windows in our bedrooms
9 that allow the light to come in, you know, all
10 the time. And, interestingly enough, we've had
11 a couple of power outages over there that have
12 lasted for about seven hours each time except
13 for
14 time, so it's always there.
15 The noise has increased significantly
16 without the tree buffer that we once had.
17 So I appreciate your time. I'm strongly
18 opposed to this and hope you vote likewise.
19 Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
21 I don't have any more cards.
22 (Discussion held off the record.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: We've got Wade Hastings.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Wade Hastings at
Diane M.
Tropia,
27
1 12321 Mandarin
2
3 Never stood before in front of the
4 council --
5 Hey, Jack, how are you?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, can I get you to come a
7 little closer to that mic so we can hear you.
8 MR. HASTINGS: I got a few pictures here
9 that show -- I wish I'd had time to get them
10 blown up, but I didn't. It shows what it looks
11 like behind my house now.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: We can put it on the
13 overhead if you prefer, sir.
14 MR. HASTINGS: That would be pretty good.
15 This is what it used to look like in my
16 backyard (indicating). A nice family picture
17 with my mother and all that at a party.
18 I understand they have the right to do and
19 change -- do to their property what they want to
20 do, but there's no way they should impact us as
21 much as what they're doing. All I see at night
22 is lights. I'm one of the three houses on
23 Mandarin
24 by this clear-cutting they did on the property.
25 I'm not much on public speaking. I just
Diane M.
Tropia,
28
1 know that I've got an uphill battle to fight
2 here, and there's no way -- I don't see any way
3 they should be able to trash my property the way
4 they are. I've got no privacy.
5 They're building another three-story
6 building within 75 -- 50 yards of my house,
7 which it's going to loom -- it's not just --
8 it's a tall 3-story building. I think it's got
9 10-foot ceilings inside.
10 I'm looking for a little help as far the --
11 maybe a buffer, something, anything I can get.
12 I don't think they can build a fence big
13 enough.
14 So thanks for your time.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
16 MR. HASTINGS: I've got another speaker
17 card here.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that for this bill?
19 MR. HASTINGS: Yes.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Whoever's card that is, come
21 on down.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
24 record, sir.
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Scott Merrill, 12313
Diane M.
Tropia,
29
1 Mandarin
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Come a little closer to that
3 mic.
4 MR. MERRILL: (Complies.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks.
6 MR. MERRILL: Sorry.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: That's all right.
8 MR. MERRILL: I'm Wade's neighbor. And,
9 likewise, I feel like right behind the house --
10 that's all their property, of course, and they
11 need to do what they need to do, but immediately
12 what we noticed as soon as they took all those
13 trees down was the light was so profound.
14 My wife and I, our bedroom facing that --
15 basically kind of faces that property. It's on
16 the corner, our bedroom is, and the light is so
17 bright right now at night. There's a red, like,
18 light that's a neon light for, like, a
19 pharmacy-type thing. But the overall light from
20 the whole establishment is so bright, we had to
21 buy an opaque screen just to put it in our
22 bedroom window.
23 And so I'm hoping that -- I'm thinking,
24 well, maybe when they come through and they put
25 the big fence up, they'll put enough buffer in
Diane M.
Tropia,
30
1 that that will block a lot of that light.
2 And my other concern was that -- I know
3 they're going to be putting a dumpster in, and
4 I'd hate for -- 5 o'clock in the morning, for
5 some dump truck right behind my house to be
6 banging this dumpster thing. I didn't know if
7 they have to do that. If maybe they can adjust
8 the schedule of the garbage trucks on behalf of
9 the people, their own neighbors in the area,
10 just not to be so disturbing because we have a
11 son who is eight, he has to get up for school.
12 I mean, if he's getting up at 5:00, you know,
13 it's going to screw up his whole sleep pattern.
14 And anyways . . .
15 But primarily my concern is that -- you
16 know, I know they need to do what they're going
17 to do. They've got to build their stuff if
18 they're going to do it, but at least think about
19 the neighbors because the light right now --
20 they don't even have all the lights in for the
21 parking lots proposed. Once they do put that
22 in, I can't imagine how bright it's going to
23 be.
24 I mean, right now they just cleared it, and
25 this is light from the existing buildings that
Diane M.
Tropia,
31
1 are around there that aren't even -- the new
2 parking lot isn't even developed yet. It's so
3 bright, we had to buy an opaque screen for our
4 bedroom window because you'd be laying in there
5 going, is it 10 o'clock in the morning or
6 10 o'clock at night?
7 So that's my primary concern. I want to
8 make sure and hope and to encourage them, as
9 friendly neighbors, to put enough of a buffer up
10 that they're going to block as much light as
11 they can. And also if -- I don't know when the
12 garbage man is going to come, but if it's at
13 4:30, 5 o'clock in the morning, they're awfully
14 loud, and our bedroom faces that area right
15 there.
16 So thank you very much.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
18 I don't have any more speaker cards.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on down.
21 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Name and address for the
23 record.
24 If there's anybody else that wants to speak
25 to this bill, please fill out a speaker card.
Diane M.
Tropia,
32
1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Cathy
2
3 Drive. Wade Hastings is my husband.
4 I liked to enter these pictures
5 (indicating) that I believe was shown before,
6 into the record, if I could.
7 And I'm not good at this sort of thing
8 either. I guess I just wanted to say there's
9 probably more implications to this than what we
10 all understand. I know that you can't stop
11 progress. As much as I'd like to be able to do
12 it, I've gone from having a wonderful place to
13 call home to a place that I go out the back way
14 so I don't have to see it.
15 It's -- you know, it's not a place that I
16 will want to stay in for any longer than I
17 absolutely have to anymore, but I'm also in a
18 position of I couldn't sell my property right
19 now. I mean, I could not -- there's absolutely
20 no way.
21 So my best hope is that once they have
22 finished building what they're going to build,
23 which behind me will be a three-story office
24 building that has retail in it, after the
25 landscape is put up, after we have done whatever
Diane M.
Tropia,
33
1 we can do to alleviate the situation on our
2 property to kind of shield and block us, maybe
3 at that point, you know, a great number of years
4 down the road, we might be able to get out of
5 it.
6 The current zoning, I don't understand all
7 of that. I really protest them doing anything
8 else unless we get some mitigating things taken
9 care of. If we could get a buffer. A berm
10 would be wonderful, a landscape berm. I mean,
11 they're raising behind our house four feet.
12 They had to fill in the wetlands. So that's
13 four feet above -- you know, already if I have a
14 six-foot fence, four feet of it's gone, then I'm
15 going to have a three-story building.
16 So the only thing that I ask is that
17 whatever can be done to help the existing
18 homeowners that are already there and have been
19 there, to help stay and enjoy their property, to
20 at least be able to sell it at some point, that
21 these things take into consideration. And I
22 don't think there's anybody that's involved in
23 this that isn't willing to work toward a
24 solution that works for everybody.
25 That's all.
Diane M.
Tropia,
34
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
2 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
4 My name is Ron Wassmer. I live at 12340
5 Mandarin
6 I'm completely opposed to this bill. I
7 moved back to
8 in Mandarin. I've lived here basically since
9 '77 when I got out of the Navy. I lived on
12 I've heard promises over the years that
13 they would not turn
15 this project shows that y'all don't care and
16 just let these projects go.
17 There's three other office buildings in
18 this -- office complexes within a half mile, and
19 they look like residential communities. It's
20 got grass, trees, everything. I've never
21 objected to those.
22 But this thing has degraded our
23 neighborhood, our community to the point I don't
24 even want to live here anymore. I'm ready to
25 move back to
Diane M.
Tropia,
35
1 away from this place.
2 I live right across the street from Wade,
3 and I can see the already three-story building
4 over the top of his house in my living room.
5 For the first time in three years since they
6 clear-cut, I'm looking at
7 the noise is appalling. There's a car wash over
8 there, and in the morning beep, beep, beep,
9 beep. It drives you nuts. And you're not even
10 ready to get up and go to work yet. It's
11 pathetic.
12 This bill needs to be vetoed completely.
13 And if there was any way to stop the next
14 three-story building, I wish you would do
15 something about that because this stinks, and
16 I'm pissed off about it.
17 I wish I had been up here a year or two
18 years ago to say something about it, but I
19 didn't.
20 Thank you for your time.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
22 Is that all the speakers?
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Please bring all the speaker
25 cards down here.
Diane M.
Tropia,
36
1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I'm Mary Ellen Hanes
2 at
3 subdivision.
4 We bought our house about a little over two
5 years ago. When we put the offer on the house,
6 there was no building back there like that was
7 in our view. By the time we bought it, they had
8 put up the building, the framework for the back
9 building.
10 And we were told at the time, oh, no. The
11 guy has promised he will do a tree buffer. It
12 will be -- you know, it won't be as apparent as
13 it is right now. That has never happened. And
14 it just seemed from everything that we hear
15 about -- you know,
16 neighbor. And with the clear-cutting and just
17 the -- you know, the noise. Our backyard is
18 very private. It looks on to all wooded and
19 everything until you look left and where you see
20 buildings now.
21 So I just wanted to put in my opposition
22 for -- well, if it goes through, to please give
23 us some kind of buffer to help alleviate some of
24 this growth.
25 Thank you.
Diane M.
Tropia,
37
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
2 Anyone else?
3 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other speakers, we
5 will continue that public hearing, and we will
6 take -- Mr. Webb.
7 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 Everyone who is down here this evening, I'm
9 going to -- hang tight for a minute because as
10 we move onto the next matter, I'd like to meet
11 with y'all in the infamous Green Room. Then you
12 get to look at that, what that looks like.
13 But, in any event, I want to thank
14 every- -- Mr. Chairman, I thank you for your
15 indulgence.
16 I want to thank everyone for coming down.
17 And I understand that this is a quasi-judicial
18 proceeding, and I guess I'm not speaking to the
19 merits of the PUD that's before us right now, so
20 I can speak freely as to the merits of this
21 project outside of the scope of this PUD.
22 And I will go on record to say that this
23 project is an unmitigated disaster. These
24 pictures don't do justice to what has occurred
25 in this project. I'm not passing the buck
Diane M.
Tropia,
38
1 here. This is not a cop-out, but clearly this
2 predates me.
3 And I'll say this, one of the reasons that
4 I support a PUD as opposed to a conventional
5 rezoning was perhaps an opportunity to, in fact,
6 extract major concessions from the developer
7 with respect to fixing this problem. Those
8 discussions were ongoing and then someone made
9 the unbelievable mistake of going in there and
10 turning this into a modern day
11 thing is just awful.
12 I drove down there -- I drive through there
13 all the time on my drive-abouts when I'm
14 checking out the district, and this thing --
15 again, the pictures just don't do justice to
16 what's going on there. And, again, it's not
17 just this PUD, it's the project.
18 And having said that, that's all I'll say
19 about it now. But I will note that the
20 developer's representative is not present today,
21 and we will be having further discussions prior
22 to this coming to final vote.
23 And that's all I've got to say.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 MR. WEBB: I'd like for y'all to come back
Diane M.
Tropia,
39
1 to the Green Room.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second.
3 Who's here?
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible.)
5 MR. WEBB: David, are you -- you represent
6 the owner or you're a realtor?
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Shakes head.)
8 MR. WEBB: Okay. Thank you.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Gaffney.
10 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 I just want to expound on Councilman
12 Webb's -- as I look at these pictures, I just
13 have a lot of sentiment for the owners. I
14 think, you know, with government and as leaders,
15 we have to take a leadership position and listen
16 to the people. And it's very apparently that we
17 try to work with both entities and hopefully
18 they can work things out. But it don't look
19 like the developer got much community buy-in or
20 considered the community wishes or desires at
21 all.
22 And as this is -- as this sits, I cannot
23 support this. It looks -- so hopefully we can
24 work something out.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we're not taking any
Diane M.
Tropia,
40
1 action on this bill tonight. I have to say that
2 I got a call from the applicant, and he didn't
3 bring -- quote, didn't bring his people in
4 support of this because we had planned on
5 deferring it, so that's why you're not hearing
6 the other side.
7 That all being said, we are continuing and
8 taking no further action.
9 Thank you, Mr. Webb.
10 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: And if you guys that just
12 spoke would like to speak to Councilmember Webb,
13 the officer will let you guys in through the
14 Green Room door.
15 And thank you guys for coming down.
16 All right. Committee members, let's turn
17 back to the beginning of the agenda.
18 Page 2. 2005-1228 is deferred. 2006-24 is
19 deferred.
20 2006-220. There is a move for withdrawal.
21 Can you move it?
22 MR. JOOST: Move it.
23 MR. BROWN: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
25 to withdraw.
Diane M.
Tropia,
41
1 Any discussion on the withdrawal?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
4 ballot.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
8 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
13 the vote.
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
17 withdrawn 2006-220.
18 And, Planning Department, I want to thank
19 you guys for getting that off my agenda. You
20 guys worked very well and very hard.
21 Top of page 3. 2006-658 is deferred.
22 2007-581 is deferred. We've have already done
23 -1086.
24 Top of page 4. 2008-414, -416, and -418
25 are all deferred.
Diane M.
Tropia,
42
1 Top of page 5. 2008-517. There's a public
2 hearing. We'll open that public hearing.
3 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
4 public hearing and take no further action.
5 -541, -542 are both deferred.
6 -543 -- I'm sorry -- -546, there's a
7 substitute.
8 MR. JOOST: Move the substitute.
9 MR. HOLT: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
11 seconded.
12 Any discussion on the substitute?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
15 say aye.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved the substitute.
21 MR. JOOST: Move to rerefer.
22 MR. HOLT: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion to rerefer and
24 seconded to LUZ as substituted.
25 Any further discussions on the rereferral?
Diane M.
Tropia,
43
1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
3 ballot.
4 (Committee ballot opened.)
5 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
7 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
12 the vote.
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
16 rereferred -546 as substituted.
17 Top of page 6. -549, -550, -552 are all
18 deferred.
19 -562, we'll open that public hearing.
20 We have Les Manucy.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Manucy.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on down, sir.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 MR. KRAVITZ: Do you want the applicant
25 first?
Diane M.
Tropia,
44
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you want to rebut the
2 things he's going to say, or do you want to talk
3 first?
4 MR. KRAVITZ: I want to present the bill as
5 the applicant.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
7 MR. KRAVITZ: Do I have rebuttal afterwards
8 too?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: No. That's why I figured
10 you'd go afterwards.
11 Yes, sir.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Les Manucy,
14 known as Whitehouse.
15 I'm against this zoning. It's extremely
16 vague, and I only got notice of it yesterday.
17 And in looking through it, there's a lot of
18 things I don't like about it. I wish I had all
19 those people over there to take a good look at
20 this thing.
21 But there's no buffering. They just
22 brought to my attention that their residents
23 that they plan on putting in there, they got all
24 kind of buffering. But since we're the only
25 resident in the area, so we can't have all those
Diane M.
Tropia,
45
1 people -- it's only just us, me and my wife --
2 we have no buffer whatsoever. They're just
3 jam up against us.
4 But, you know, the residents that they want
5 to put in there, they're going to put buffering
6 in there so they don't have to be around all
7 this noise and lights and so forth.
8 Also, the main problem was -- to start
9 with, is the street. They keep referring to the
10 access off of
11 thing went through, this deal, they were talking
12 about
13 and putting in their own access.
14 Now,
15 We have 240 feet of frontage on this public
16 road. The -- they were going to move this
17 completely away. Well, now they've come back
18 and they've said the access road and they've
19 drawn it in where it sort of looks like Gurtler
20 Road, but they don't specify that
21 is going to stay where it is.
22 So I think it's vague enough where they can
23 just go ahead and get -- according to what was,
24 quote, "entrance roadway off
25 dot, dot, "location subject to review," dot,
Diane M.
Tropia,
46
1 dot, dot, "City's traffic engineer."
2 In other words, they'll put in a road
3 anyplace they feel like it, but they haven't
4 told you that in this particular thing. Matter
5 of fact, like I say, it's been so vague, they
6 haven't said a lot.
7 Another thing that's really cute is the
8 trash that they plan. They plan to put
9 dumpsters in where they can't be seen from a
10 public road. Well, that's fine because the
11 public road is quite a ways from where I live.
12 So we'll be the only ones that have to look at
13 their dumpsters because they say that, you know,
14 if they do away with
15 live -- you know, they're right behind it
16 anyway, so they haven't taken our interest into
17 this thing at all.
18 As a matter of fact, we were told that
19 before anything happened, we would be notified.
20 We were notified not at all. We saw a sign up
21 Saturday. That's our only notification that
22 anything is going on.
23 We were told last September by Councilman
24
25 notified -- this was in September -- and they
Diane M.
Tropia,
47
1 were going to have a meeting the next day to get
2 things squared away.
3 Evidently, it's a long time for the next
4 day because we haven't gotten any resolution
5 whatsoever.
6 We were told, you know, this is -- I suffer
7 from depression. It's gotten so bad that I just
8 had to bow out of this whole thing and let my
9 lawyer take care of it for me. He hasn't been
10 notified either.
11 Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
13 Hold on just a second, sir, for a question.
14 Mr. Joost.
15 MR. MANUCY: Yes, sir.
16 MR. JOOST: Thank you for coming down.
17 You've got legal counsel?
18 MR. MANUCY: Yes, sir. Paul Harden.
19 MR. JOOST: Okay. He represents you?
20 MR. MANUCY: Yes, sir.
21 MR. JOOST: Okay. Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Julia Reynolds.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Julia Reynolds, 11271
25 Gurtler Road, Whitehouse, and that was my
Diane M.
Tropia,
48
1 husband that just spoke.
2 We might -- I apologize if we repeat the
3 same thing. I'm opposed to the project.
4 This past Saturday, a rezoning sign was
5 posted at Chaffee and Gurtler. I obtained the
6 new proposed plan yesterday. I've had limited
7 time to review the plan.
8 Councilman Davis told me at the City
9 Council meeting in September that I would be
10 notified before this project moved forward. I
11 was not notified.
12 This is the third proposed plan on this
13 property. The last one was in September, and it
14 eliminated
15 that road. My father deeded his land to the
16 City for this road. My father bought his home
17 from Mr. Gurtler in the 1940s. He later bought
18 land across the street from his home, which I
19 now own. I put a home on the property in 1967.
20 This newest proposed plan, as I look it over,
21 briefly lacks specifics.
23 today? The plan says the entrance shall be by
24 way of the entrance roadway off
25 shown in the site plan. It does not say Gurtler
Diane M.
Tropia,
49
1 Road.
The site plan shows
2 does not identify
3 You know, after 60 years, if it don't say
4 it, it ain't there. So I'm really concerned
5 that -- I have 240 feet of road frontage. If
6 this plan goes through, am I going to continue
7 to have this, or will it be like the plan that
8 they were trying to submit before this where
9 I'll be behind two restaurants going between
10 parking lots to get to my home? I have to be
11 really concerned about what this plan is doing
12 to me.
13 And this plan, as I look at it, I can't
14 tell really what's being built because it
15 doesn't really say. It doesn't say Gurtler
16 Road. It shows blocks of land. It looks like
17 they're selling blocks of land. Doesn't tell me
18 whether I'll have a car wash next door to me.
19 I'm kind of stuck in the center, you know,
20 across the road of this development, on both
21 sides of this development.
22 I signed an agreement with Chaffee Station
23 to allow multifamily housing to be built next to
24 me in August of 2005, multifamily housing, along
25 with an option to buy my property. Chaffee
Diane M.
Tropia,
50
1 Station still has an option to buy my property
2 that will expire March 2009. They have not
3 exercised their right to cancel the contract.
4 My property is not part of the plan.
5 I feel this plan is so unclear, so
6 nonspecific, it's almost like a blank check.
7 Rezoning signs were posted this past week.
8 I first noticed them on Saturday. With Monday a
9 holiday, we've been given little time to review
10 this plan and discuss the impacts that it may
11 have on me, my family, my home. This land has
12 been in my family for over 60 years. It means a
13 lot to me.
14 I'm asking that -- based on the reasons
15 that I've given to you, that you do not approve
16 this proposed rezoning plan. There's just too
17 many blank spots.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
19 Mr. Kravitz.
20 (Mr. Kravitz approaches the podium.)
21 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you.
22 Dick Kravitz,
23 applicant.
24 Just to say a little bit about the
25 rezoning, this is a PUD application to rezone
Diane M.
Tropia,
51
1 approximately 43 acres for a mixed-use
2 development. The plan is consistent with the
3 Northwest Vision Plan, the State comp plan.
4 It's been approved by the Planning Department,
5 the Planning Commission. We're agreeable to all
6 the conditions as outlined by the Planning
7 Commission.
8 The site plan that the people that came up
9 here before and talked about clearly shows and
10 actually states on the plan that -- where these
11 people live have existing access to the off-site
12 property. It shows it and it says right on
13 there that these -- the people that own the
14 property adjacent retain existing access to
15 off-site property.
16 We have worked very, very hard with the
17 Planning Department to be sure that these people
18 have access. There's a January 14, 2009,
19 memorandum that the Planning Department -- from
20 Andy Hetzel -- from Lisa King to Andy Hetzel,
21 that explains the improvements that are going to
22 be made to
23 I mean, we've complied with everything there.
24 Their concern, rightfully so, is that they
25 have access and they not be landlocked. I think
Diane M.
Tropia,
52
1 if the Planning Department has told us, the
2 applicant -- and I think we know that you can't
3 landlock somebody. You cannot take away
4 somebody's access. The Planning Department has
5 stated that.
6 The written description is not vague. It
7 does explain -- it doesn't say in the written
8 description exactly that it's
9 But, according to the Planning Department, the
10 actual legal guarantees that these people have
11 access.
12 Let me just say this: I'm a newcomer to
13 this debate that goes back four or five years,
14 but in all honesty -- and I'm not -- I mean, I'm
15 not saying anything in -- being disrespectful in
16 any way, but this goes back to a dispute between
17 two parties or two families or two owners.
18 That's what this is all about. And this
19 shouldn't be handled here in an area where we're
20 talking about land use and zoning. That should
21 either be handled in court or in some other
22 venue.
23 This meets all the qualifications of land
24 use and zoning, has everybody's approval.
25 What we were suggesting -- and Councilman
Diane M.
Tropia,
53
1
2 aide Sarah, that he would like this to go
3 through tonight. And if the access remains a
4 problem, which it sounds like it is -- maybe
5 it's a misunderstanding or what -- that we can
6 get together on Monday or Tuesday and make sure
7 that there's an agreement before the City
8 Council meeting.
9 I'm not in a position to try to do anything
10 negative to anybody else, and certainly the
11 owners aren't either, but I think the Planning
12 Department -- we've been working very closely
13 with them -- will explain to you what the
14 situation is, but we're willing to meet again
15 Monday or Tuesday so the folks --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kravitz, your time is
17 up.
18 MR. KRAVITZ: Okay.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: But hold on. Councilmember
20 Brown has got a question for you.
21 MR. BROWN: Through the Chair, have you
22 made any attempt to speak with -- you referred
23 to them as "these people." Have you made any
24 attempt -- or your client made any attempt to
25 clarify the access that they're concerned
Diane M.
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1 about --
2 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
3 MR. BROWN: -- prior to today?
4 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
5 Let me explain why I -- I shouldn't say --
6 I forgot. Is it Ms. Reynolds? Mr. and
7 Ms. Reynolds; is that it?
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. That's --
9 MR. KRAVITZ: Reynolds. Okay. I should
10 have said Reynolds.
11 Ms. Hipps is my partner. Ms. Hipps has met
12 with them -- or tried to meet with them, explain
13 to them on the phone. She is out of the
14 country. That's why I'm here with her. We work
15 together.
16 Yes, this has not been done in a vacuum.
17 Ms. Hipps has tried to work with them, and I
18 have to say that those -- we put the signs up.
19 Ms. Hipps' husband put them up. We are very
20 diligent in doing those things. And the City
21 sends notices to surrounding property owners on
22 all properties, so I don't understand how they
23 didn't get a notice if the City sends that out
24 on a rezoning.
25 But Ms. Hipps has communicated with the
Diane M.
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1 Reynolds family many times.
2 MR. BROWN: Okay. One other question.
3 You made the statement or comment that they
4 have met. Do you have a date?
5 MR. KRAVITZ: Or they have talked.
6 MR. BROWN: Or they talked about it.
7 Do you have a date?
8 MR. KRAVITZ: I don't have the date here.
9 Like I say, Ms. Hipps isn't here, but she
10 has told me that, that they have talked, they've
11 discussed this. It's nothing new. In fact, a
12 lot of these revisions were made because of the
13 concerns of the adjacent property holders.
14 MR. BROWN: No further questions.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second.
16 Mr. Joost.
17 MR. JOOST: I was just a little curious
18 because in the agenda meeting, I was under the
19 impression you and Mr. Harden had worked out any
20 differences that there were.
21 MR. KRAVITZ: Well, it -- the difference --
22 and I really would like the Planning
23 Department -- I'm not an expert on legal
24 access. I'm not an expert on -- I'm not an
25 attorney, so I can't tell you exactly what the
Diane M.
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1 law says. But Mr. Kelly, Mr. Lewis, and the
2 Planning Department, we worked with them to try
3 to get this and put in a site plan enough
4 language and the depiction, according to the
5 legal description, that would guarantee the
6 Reynolds access to
7 Now, I'm telling you that -- that, in my
8 opinion, is not really the issue. This issue
9 goes back to a long-standing, if you would, feud
10 between the two owners, but that's not my
11 business. My business is to try to do the right
12 thing and give them access, and I'm not an
13 expert.
14 If you'd ask Mr. Kelly if what we have on
15 the site plan is enough for the Reynolds to be
16 satisfied that they're not going to be
17 landlocked -- and that's what I'm trying to do,
18 is to make sure and give them the assurances
19 that we're not going to lock them in and -- so
20 they can't get off their property.
21 MR. JOOST: Mr. Harden, can you come up?
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second.
23 MR. HARDEN: I was trying not to.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Wait, wait. Hold on a
25 second.
Diane M.
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1 Let me close the public hearing and then
2 you can start questioning him.
3 If you had any other questions for this
4 guy --
5 MR. JOOST: No.
6 Thank you, Mr. Kravitz.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Hold on.
8 Hold on.
9 Dr. Gaffney.
10 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 Yes, Mr. Kravitz. I think we really -- I
12 would hope that we can amicably and
13 expeditiously try to get this resolved, but we
14 don't want to -- I don't think it's fair if we
15 were to perhaps vote on this tonight and under
16 the pretense that you're going to get it worked
17 out. I think we really need to have some type
18 of clarity so I can feel comfortable, so the
19 homeowners can feel comfortable.
20 I guess they don't want to go off of a -- a
21 winch. I know you say that you've pretty much
22 got it worked out, but we've got to make sure
23 that both sides are happy, and so there still
24 seems to be a lot of questions.
25 Perhaps, I don't know, maybe Mr. Harden can
Diane M.
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1 clarify some things between you and him.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Gaffney, do you have a
3 question for Mr. Kravitz?
4 DR. GAFFNEY: Yes.
5 I want to -- have you-all -- okay. The
6 question is, have you-all -- do you have some
7 type of clarity -- come to some type of
8 resolution that assures us that they're not
9 going to be landlocked?
10 MR. KRAVITZ: I think so.
11 If you would allow Mr. Kelly to try to
12 clarify the technical issue that's at the heart
13 of this rezoning, it would help all of us --
14 DR. GAFFNEY: Okay.
15 MR. KRAVITZ: -- and would be -- would help
16 us, for the record, to understand.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me close the public
18 hearing.
19 Mr. Redman, do you have a question for
20 Mr. Kravitz?
21 MR. REDMAN: No. I have one for the
22 residents, if I could.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me close the public
24 hearing and then we'll let you guys pull all
25 that stuff up.
Diane M. Tropia,
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1 Are there any other speakers on this bill?
2 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we'll close
4 that public hearing.
5 Mr. Joost, you were first.
6 MR. JOOST: All right. Mr. Harden, through
7 the Chair, come on up.
8 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
9 MR. JOOST: As the attorney for the
10 applicant, have we worked out the easement
11 consideration?
12 MR. HARDEN: I'm not an attorney for the
13 applicant.
14 MR. JOOST: I mean, for the -- excuse me.
15 MR. HARDEN: And let me just say, I'm
16 trying to assist them on a pro bono basis. I'm
17 trying not to get into a big fight.
18 But what -- historically, what happened --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Harden, name and address
20 for the record.
21 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 501
22 Avenue.
23 In September, they came to me and asked me
24 to look at the PUD. There was an attempt to
25 close
Diane M.
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1 access to their property. I wrote, at their
2 behest, to Councilman Davis, explained to him
3 what the problem was. He said, oh, I see; I'm
4 not going to let that happen, because they were
5 under contract with Dick's client, and then it
6 didn't close. So, obviously, they were kind
7 of -- they're an outparcel you can see on the
8 site plan.
9 In September, I wrote Councilman Davis. He
10 said, nothing will happen until you resolve the
11 issue. I have not heard anything else until
12 Monday, Ms. Reynolds called and said there was a
13 new sign that went up. Have you gotten a new
14 PUD? And I said, no.
15 I called Mr. Kravitz's compatriot. They
16 faxed me the new PUD for the first time. It
17 wasn't a full copy, so I called -- the Planning
18 Department was closed because it was Monday. I
19 called them first thing Monday morning -- excuse
20 me -- Tuesday morning, got a full copy of the
21 PUD. Sent it Tuesday, yesterday, to
22 Ms. Reynolds and Mr. Manucy. And that was the
23 first time they had seen it.
24 Now, I've not talked to anybody since
25 September.
Diane M.
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1 They raised the issue -- it's pretty clear
2 to me in there that they're changing Gurtler
3 Road from what it is to a private drive because
4 it says that in there, so that's the issue. I
5 would like to try to resolve it at some point,
6 through whatever methodology I can use, but I
7 respectfully disagree with Richard on what the
8 PUD says.
9 You can see that there's a road drawn on
10
there, on top of where
11 there's little stub-outs, one to Mr. Manucy and
12 Ms. Reynolds' house. And then it described the
13 access to the site as off
14 Gurtler Road, and it shows basically Gurtler
15 Road going away and being replaced by the
16 driveway that will be the access on there.
17 And so -- and, now, Dick did say that he
18 thinks there's some issue as to the title of
19 Gurtler Road, that maybe -- an adjoining
20 easement, but I -- that's not been my
21 understanding on the thing.
22 So, no, it isn't resolved. I'll be happy
23 to talk with Mr. Kravitz or whoever to try to
24 resolve it.
25 But I understand their concerns from
Diane M.
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1 reading the PUD. I read it the same way they
2 do, and so I was hoping not to get in the middle
3 of the legal issue, but that's -- yesterday was
4 the first time I saw it since September.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
6 MR. JOOST: So the real issue we're talking
7 about is an easement for your client.
8 MR. HARDEN: Well, they currently have
9 access off a public road.
10 MR. JOOST: But that's going to be shut
11 down, it's what it is.
12 MR. HARDEN: It looks like that on the PUD,
13 yeah. There was, at one time, a --
14 MR. JOOST: All right. Mr. Kelly, is that
15 the case? Is this public road going to be shut
16 down if we do this PUD?
17 MR. KELLY: No. You can't close a public
18 right-of-way through a rezoning. They're two
19 separate processes.
20 MR. HARDEN: If that's the case, then why
21 don't you just put a condition in that Gurtler
22 Road, as it exists, will not be closed and
23 they'll have permanent access down
24 to their property, and I think that would --
25 that would at least resolve the access issue.
Diane M.
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1 If that's the case -- if what Sean is
2 saying is what they intend to do, then just say
3 that in the PUD instead of the access will be
4 off Chaffee through a driveway that they'll have
5 a stub-out to.
6 MR. JOOST: Mr. Kravitz, is that acceptable
7 to you or --
8 MR. KRAVITZ: Well, you know, I keep -- I
9 keep going back, if you would just let Mr. Kelly
10 explain to you -- and I'll tell you why it's
11 a -- that -- my understanding is that the owner,
12 the applicant owns a portion of, obviously,
14 that anything we put on there affects his
15 portion.
16 My point all along is that -- Mr. Kelly
17 will tell you that the legal description really
18 is all -- it -- I don't know to put words in his
19 mouth, but is all that matters, and it
20 guarantees access to the adjacent property
21 holder.
22 But if you'd just let him just explain that
23 to you, I think it will help you clear it up.
24 That's what I'm trying to do, is just try to
25 clear it up in everybody's minds what we're
Diane M.
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1 really doing.
2 We're not denying access and we can't deny
3 access. We can't do that.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
5 MR. JOOST: I'll give up the mic and let
6 someone else ask the question.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Joost.
8 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Kravitz.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly, you're on.
10 MR. KELLY: I would defer to the site plan
11 and also the traffic memo from Lisa King. The
12 site plan is Exhibit E in your book. There's a
13 specific notation on the site plan that talks
14 about the abutting property. And it's noted on
15 there, it says, "retain existing access to
16 off-site property."
17 Additionally, in the traffic memo from
18 Lisa King --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on a second. We're
20 looking for Exhibit E.
21 MR. KELLY: Page 10 of 10.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Gotcha.
23 MR. KELLY: If you can see just at the
24 north side, to the right of the pond, there's
25 that language on the site plan which ensures
Diane M.
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1 that they're going to maintain access to the
2 adjacent property to the north.
3 MR. JOOST: How do you get that out of this
4 map?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: See right there
6 (indicating).
7 MR. KELLY: It's a little hard to read on
8 the reduced size version.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: If that's what it says.
10 All right. Thanks.
11 MR. KELLY: Also, I would just -- I would
12 refer to the traffic memo, and specifically
13 Lisa King is requiring the applicant to improve
14 Gurtler Road right-of-way to City standards,
15 including a 24 feet pavement width, with a
16 5-foot sidewalk on both sides. In addition,
17 roadway lighting meeting City standards for a
18 commercial roadway.
19 So it's not a driveway. It is a public
20 right-of-way, and there's no proposal to close
21 it at this point. So the -- the issue, I guess,
22 boils down to the legal description -- for some
23 reason on our zoning map, that that right-of-way
24 was included as part of the legal description of
25 the PUD.
Diane M.
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1 It was my suggestion earlier that they
2 adopt the legal description, excepting out that
3 portion that is
4 apparently I guess there's the question about
5 the ownership and such, so -- that I wasn't
6 aware of until tonight.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
8 Mr. Redman.
9 MR. REDMAN: I had a question for
10 Ms. Reynolds, if I could.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
12 Ms. Reynolds.
13 MS. REYNOLDS: Yes.
14 MR. REDMAN: Could you come to the
15 microphone, please.
16 (Ms. Reynolds approaches the podium.)
17 MR. REDMAN: In listening to yours and your
18 husband's discussion, I gathered that there
19 was -- y'all had more problems with what was
20 going to be going on across the road in the
21 development than you did access.
22 MS. REYNOLDS: Unh-unh.
23 If you're speaking of my mother's property,
24 she sold her property. We're the only remaining
25 residents along that road. We're the only ones
Diane M.
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1 left, except the people that live behind us. We
2 have, you know, three houses behind us, you
3 know, because they're long and narrow.
4 But you -- you have this plot of land and
5 we're sitting right there all by ourself, and
6 their proposed changes has changed and changed
7 and changed from when they first came to me and
8 said, we'd like to build multifamily housing
9 here.
10 MR. REDMAN: Okay. So your problem is not
11 the access? Are you not worried about the
12 access to your property?
13 MR. MANUCY: My wife has misunderstood your
14 question. But, in any event, we do have other
15 problems besides the access, including the
16 buffer and so forth, not to mention the fact
17 that, as Paul Harden said, we had this
18 information yesterday.
19 We haven't even had a chance -- you know, I
20 stayed up till 4 o'clock this morning trying to
21 figure this thing out. In my opinion, it's been
22 kept from us totally so we couldn't even figure
23 out what in the world they're up to.
24 As I said, they promised to see us the next
25 day after the last time we saw them in this
Diane M.
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1 room, which was in September. Now, they haven't
2 seen us. I talked to -- I got Paul -- like I
3 say, I suffer from depression. We got
4 Paul Harden involved in this because it's too
5 much for us.
6 So they told them, this is our lawyer.
7 He's talked to them, said, you know, we're ready
8 to get together. They have not made one effort
9 whatsoever to get together with us to get
10 anything squared away.
11 The problem that we're talking -- that she
12 was talking about is that they screwed her
13 mother out of the money that she was supposed to
14 get paid. But that's the legal issue he was
15 talking about; that's not part of this.
16 MR. REDMAN: Okay. But is your major
17 concern access to your property?
18 MS. REYNOLDS: Everything.
19 MR. MANUCY: One of our major concerns
20 is -- one of our major concerns is access to the
21 property. Another of our major concerns is
22 don't spring this on us at the last minute and
23 tell us that -- you know, they didn't tell us
24 anything. Hopefully, we don't see the sign and
25 not make it down here. Nobody send any
Diane M.
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1 notification to us that this was coming through
2 from anywhere.
3 The last time we got a letter --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
5 Excuse me, sir.
6 Did you get your question answered?
7 MR. REDMAN: Yes, I got that question
8 answered, but I would like to find out if notice
9 was sent out to them.
10 MR. KELLY: Yes. The original notice went
11 out -- that was back in -- noticed again for the
12 introduction at City Council on August 26, which
13 was the September 3rd LUZ meeting, so it was
14 noticed for that hearing.
15 I know this has been continued for some
16 time at the request of the applicant.
17 MS. REYNOLDS: Which a different plan
18 altogether --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am.
20 MR. MANUCY: The notice we got was for a
21 totally different -- we have no notice for this
22 one.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir.
24 MR. MANUCY: I'm sorry.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
Diane M.
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1 MR. REDMAN: All right. Thank you.
2 Y'all can sit down.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
4 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
5 Through the Chair to, I guess,
6 Mr. Kravitz. These folks that were just up
7 here, the Reynolds said that they were -- their
8 family members had sold some of the property to
9 your client; is that right?
10 MR. KRAVITZ: You know, to be honest, I
11 don't know the ins and outs of what happened --
12 MR. HOLT: Whose property --
13 MR. KRAVITZ: -- but there's a lot of
14 discussion about that. It's a sore subject
15 between both the parties.
16 MR. HOLT: Okay. Was there an effort to
17 purchase their property in all this?
18 MR. KRAVITZ: I can't tell you that. There
19 may have been, there may not have been, but
20 that's just --
21 MR. HOLT: Okay. Thank you.
22 MR. KRAVITZ: You're welcome.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kravitz.
24 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Have you spoken to the
Diane M.
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1 district councilperson on this issue?
2 MR. KRAVITZ: I did.
3 And let me just say one thing. I looked in
4 the notes, and Ms. Hipps and I -- she's a person
5 of her word. She had tried to notify the
6 Reynolds to have a meeting, and they had one set
7 up. And I don't know why it didn't occur, but
8 the attempt was made. I'm sure there's a
9 legitimate reason why it didn't happen, I'm
10 sure, but the attempt was made to meet and
11 they've spoken in the interim.
12 Let me tell you what Councilman Davis has
13 said -- and we've been in touch with him. The
14 PUD -- we've worked months with the Planning
15 Department to revise the PUD, to put the
16 conditions in. We've done everything we're
17 supposed to do. We've got all the approvals.
18 Councilman Davis said that he would like,
19 quote -- and he told Sarah, his aide -- for this
20 to go through tonight. And if there was still a
21 remaining problem, that we would deal with it
22 before the council meeting Tuesday, and we said
23 that's fine.
24 If there -- we want to solve any
25 outstanding issues that are solvable. Sometimes
Diane M.
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1 you can't solve them because there's another
2 agenda, but we will do anything we can to solve
3 the existing problems, specifically the road
4 access and any other situations. They talked
5 about a possible buffer. Sure, we'll do
6 everything we can. That's -- you know, that's
7 the way you do it.
8 You try to bring the neighbors into the
9 situation and try to satisfy them. We all know
10 that. That's part of rezonings. So we're happy
11 to do that.
12 And the signs were up and the notices were
13 sent out because Ms. Hipps' husband puts them
14 out all the time, I can tell you that, but we're
15 still -- we're happy to sit down again and try
16 to make this work.
17 But you asked me the question, what did
18 Councilman Davis say, he said that he'd like to
19 see this go through -- it's not words. I'm not
20 putting words in his mouth. Those were the
21 words he said -- and if we still have some
22 existing problems, we can do it before Monday.
23 And I've asked Mr. and Ms. Reynolds if they
24 would like to meet on Monday. Ms. Hipps will be
25 back. And we can sit down, hopefully, if
Diane M.
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1 Mr. Kelly agrees, at the Planning Department so
2 that we don't get misinterpreted, and then try
3 to put a finality to this as well.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I guess I can't speak
5 for the rest of this committee, but from the
6 things I'm hearing right now, it looks like
7 we're going to defer this thing. It's just --
8 there's a lot of unanswered questions that are
9 there, and if we try to fix it before the
10 meeting on Tuesday, there is no public hearing
11 on this thing, so we'll find ourselves in a
12 whole lot of hurt.
13 MR. KRAVITZ: That's fine.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: So I don't -- if we can just
15 defer it for two weeks. Ms. Hipps will be back
16 in town, and so she can speak too from your side
17 and we can get Councilmember Davis here to speak
18 from the other side.
19 MR. KRAVITZ: That's fine.
20 I wonder if I could ask a favor. Would it
21 be okay -- we're on the record -- because we
22 really want to solve this -- if the Reynolds
23 will meet with us Monday? Even though we
24 deferred it, we would like them to come to the
25 Planning Department and let's get the process
Diane M.
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1 going.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, trust me -- I mean,
3 we've already gone through this today, and you
4 probably see some sympathetic ears that are up
5 here right now. If for some reason they refuse
6 to meet with you between now and then, you can
7 just let us -- remind us of that.
8 MR. KRAVITZ: Okay. Because the offer is
9 open to meet Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
11 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you very much.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
13 That all being said, let's -- hold on.
14 Hold on a second.
15 Mr. Joost.
16 MR. JOOST: And also I'm sure -- but
17 through the Chair to Mr. Kelly, I would like
18 for, the next time we come back here, clarity on
19 who actually owns that easement or that road
20 there because that was a big question to me, is
21 the ownership issue.
22 MR. KELLY: I would just say that -- it's
23 my understanding that it's an approved City
24 right-of-way. It's City-owned property right
25 now.
Diane M.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
2 MR. JOOST: Is that -- that's your
3 understanding?
4 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
5 MR. JOOST: Okay.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. That being the
7 case, we will reopen that public hearing and
8 continue it and take no further action.
9 Top of page 7. -784. We will open the
10 public hearing.
11 Mr. Harden.
12 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Long time no see.
14 MR. HARDEN: I've been trying to lie low.
15 I couldn't.
16 Paul Harden,
17 Do you want me to go forward or are you
18 going to let them go first?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, you're just here for
20 questions?
21 MR. HARDEN: No.
22 This is one that's been on the agenda for
23 some time deferred because I was having
24 community meetings. We have finished the
25 meetings.
Diane M.
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76
1 Several weeks ago, I wrote Councilman
2 Holt -- well, the copy of the correspondence
3 with the neighbors -- we've reached agreement on
4 an amended written description. The Planning
5 Department has it.
6 I'm going to e-mail
7 It takes into account all of the conditions the
8 Planning Department proposed, plus additional
9 ones that the neighbors proposed.
10 So we would request that it be approved
11 with the amended written description, which I
12 think is dated January 12th. So we would
13 propose the first three conditions on the zoning
14 as proposed by the Planning Department with the
15 amendment that the January 12th written
16 description be the one in place.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll close the
18 public hearing.
19 Hold on.
20 Planning Department.
21 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
22 Through the Chair, in our review -- and
23 this is the revised written description that we
24 received, I believe, yesterday or today for the
25 first time.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
77
1 In our quick evaluation in going through
2 the written description, a lot of the
3 department's concerns have not been met, and we
4 would like the -- either -- some other form of a
5 revised written description or to have the
6 original conditions included within the
7 ordinance.
8 I can go into the issues specifically, but
9 I don't see where they're referenced in this
10 revised written description.
11 MR. HARDEN: Mr. Chairman, if he'd like to
12 go through those, I'm happy to point out to him
13 where they are because I've already done it with
14 the neighbors.
15 This piece of land was the subject of a
16 land use map amendment. The land use map
17 amendment has long past. There's an adjoining
18 PUD that has no conditions on it at all. We've
19 wrapped two PUDs together. The existing PUD has
20 no conditions.
21 We've agreed with the neighbors to put them
22 together and put the conditions on both of
23 them. Every single condition that they had in
24 there is addressed in the written description.
25 Now, some of them are different wording at
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
78
1 the behest of the neighbors. They wanted a
2 different description. I erred on the side of
3 doing what the neighbors wanted to do as opposed
4 to using the language of the Planning
5 Department.
6 But I went through them with Councilman
7 Holt before. So, Sean, if there's one in
8 particular, I'll be happy to point it out to
9 you.
10 MR. KELLY: It's actually -- I mean, all --
11 4 through 9, specifically dealing with specific
12 buffers, tree planting requirements.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Sean, if you can --
14 Mr. Harden, do you have something else
15 coming up on the agenda?
16 MR. HARDEN: I do.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Which one?
18 MR. HARDEN: What number is it?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Well, I was going to
20 suggest you guys go back in the Green Room and
21 see if you can't point this stuff out.
22 MR. HARDEN: Sure. I'll be glad to do
23 that.
24 I have number 29, but I'll wait. I mean,
25 if it comes back up and Sean and I aren't
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 finished, we'll --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I mean, I just --
3 MR. HARDEN: I can point out to him how we
4 dealt with them in the written -- that's
5 probably a good idea.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thanks.
7 MR. HARDEN: We'll go quickly.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We will lay this on
9 the table.
10 And we're at -799. Open the public
11 hearing. Valarie Sawyer.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am, your name and address
15 for the record, please.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon.
17 Valarie Sawyer, 4106 Woodley Creek Avenue.
18 The property at 9821 Ribault Avenue, land
19 use, has been deemed CCG; however, a PUD has
20 been placed on the property.
21 I'm here to request that the PUD be changed
22 to a PUD for an assisted living facility and
23 also a single residential usage.
24 Since the last meeting that I had, and
25 Denise Lee, who was the councilwoman for the
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 district was here, I have provided her with the
2 articles of incorporation that she was asking
3 for concerning my nonprofit organization, and I
4 have also -- there's a team community leader. I
5 have also provided her with a letter stating
6 that I am an nonprofit organization.
7 As I mentioned before, there has been three
8 community meetings, which I have attended, along
9 with the Planning and Zoning, John Crofts, and
10 Councilwoman Denise Lee was also present at the
11 meeting.
12 Planning and Zoning has worked very
13 diligently with me on this project. I have a
14 diagram that I need, and this is the --
15 actually, the site plan that Planning and
16 Development have given me.
17 The property limits, which face Trout River
18 Boulevard -- one of the issues that the
19 community had was security, so we -- Planning
20 and Zoning developed the site plan. And if you
21 look at the plan, the property limits which face
22 Trout River Boulevard will be outlined with a
23 6-foot privacy fence and an 8-feet [sic] fence
24 on the property facing vacant commercial
25 property.
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1 There's also a 10-foot buffer that will be
2 added to the -- left of the property that's also
3 facing vacant land. Also, for the added safety,
4 I'm concerned, a 24-hour video surveillance
5 monitoring system will be installed.
6 Another community concern was increased
7 traffic and parking. The division of Traffic
8 surveyed the property, and allotment for parking
9 was addressed for designated parking for
10 visitors, employees and handicapped parking,
11 which was allotted in the front of the property,
12 which is also on the site plan.
13 During the last community meeting, I did
14 misinform the community of a septic tank system
15 that I was not aware was on the property because
16 it's an underground septic tank system. Since
17 then, I have contacted the septic division of
18 the Health Department of Jacksonville, who
19 mandates a septic tank system for assisted
20 living facilities, and there's an inspection
21 that -- a very in-depth inspection that goes
22 through before I actually will receive my
23 license to operate the facility.
24 I have disclosed this information to
25 Denise Lee, who is the councilwoman for the
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1 district, and also to the community leader.
2 Although there has been some negative
3 reception about the assisted living facility
4 coming on the property, I have also received a
5 lot of positive reception as well. I have had
6 many inquires from people, as I was just there
7 on the property, stating that they wanted to
8 know when I was opening the facility because
9 they do have elderly residents that they would
10 like to have placed there.
11 For this reason, I do feel as though this
12 assisted living facility will be a very positive
13 commodity for the city of Jacksonville.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Sawyer.
16 I have Brenda Ellis.
17 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
19 My name is Brenda Ellis. I reside at 9820
20 Ribault Avenue.
21 I'm here on behalf of my neighbors. We
22 still strongly oppose the rezoning, even with
23 the new condition. We still feel as though the
24 assisted living facility is just not appropriate
25 in our neighborhood.
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1 We've already submitted a petition with
2 over 75 names on it. One of the resident [sic]
3 could not be here, so she wrote a letter also
4 voicing her concern.
5 The intensity in which the applicant is
6 trying to operate, eight resident in
7 1,586 square footage, we feel as though that's
8 just too many residents.
9 We went back to just kind of show the
10 committee the type of -- the long history of the
11 crimes. And, according to the sergeant, this is
12 only a tip of the bucket of the police calls
13 that comes from these assisted living facility.
14 I went back and also tried to get you
15 copies of that to just show you how this is
16 going to increase the crime in our neighborhood
17 where we're trying to raise our children. I
18 also brought -- so you can see the amount of
19 square footage she's trying to house people with
20 special needs. It's just not appropriate.
21 These people have a lot -- a lot of people
22 who reside in assisted living facility has --
23 are called forensic clients, and those are
24 clients with a long history of criminal
25 records.
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1 I know the applicant keeps stating that
2 she's not going to house those people, but she
3 has not been forthcoming with her information,
4 has not showed any good faith in terms of
5 providing us information, and she have been
6 given numerous of opportunities to provide us
7 with this information.
8 I just wanted to show you -- I did have a
9 couple other pictures. Unfortunately, I left
10 them at the home -- at the office -- to show you
11 that we have two new subdivisions in our
12 neighborhood, we have new homes in our
13 community. This is only going to stifle our
14 hard work that we have made in our community to
15 make it a better and safer place to live.
16 I just -- I brought you pictures of some of
17 the assisted living facility to just show you
18 these people just wander. They don't care where
19 they go. These people at the bus stop, they
20 actually reside there. They just take off and
21 wander. They may defecate out or just urine.
22 They have mental issues. They cannot be held
23 accountable for what they doing.
24 If you vote to rezone this, this is what
25 you'll be bringing into our neighborhood,
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1 subjecting our minor children to have to look
2 at. We stay directly across the street from
3 where she's trying to do this, and we have minor
4 children we're trying to raise. Please just
5 look at some of the report. Some of these
6 people are violent.
7 She's going to have eight people who has
8 special need [sic] and one employee.
9 Thank you.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, ma'am.
11 Hold on a second, ma'am. Ma'am, we've got
12 a question for you.
13 Dr. Gaffney.
14 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you, Ms. Sawyer.
15 MS. ELLIS: Ellis.
16 DR. GAFFNEY: Quick question. This is
17 primarily a residential area?
18 MS. ELLIS: Yes. It's a mixed community
19 because, when you come into our entrance, it's
20 on Lem Turner. So it is in commercial property,
21 but where she's trying -- what she's trying to
22 do is actually put her business where we
23 actually reside.
24 In the back of her property and when you
25 first enter Ribault is commercial -- is
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1 commercial property, but everything that
2 drills [sic] into the front is residential.
3 Even the vacant lot on the side of her home is
4 residential, according to (inaudible) --
5 DR. GAFFNEY: So what would you say if you
6 had to -- hypothetically, the values of those
7 properties around there?
8 MS. ELLIS: Well, according to -- I called
9 four appraisers and they told us in order to
10 give us an accurate figure, they would have to
11 do a comprehensive appraisal, which mean not
12 only my property but several other properties in
13 there, but it will be significantly impacted.
14 DR. GAFFNEY: Thank you very much.
15 MS. ELLIS: Thank you, sir.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record also show I
17 got a card for Curley Ellis, who does not wish
18 to speak, but is opposed to this rezoning as
19 well.
20 That all being said, I have no further
21 cards, so I will close that public hearing.
22 To let the community know, I spoke to
23 Ms. Lee's assistant today, and she said that
24 Ms. Lee got her questions answered and she was
25 okay with this moving forward.
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1 MR. JOOST: So let's move the amendment.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Move the amendment.
3 Do I get a second?
4 MR. HOLT: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
6 for the amendment.
7 Can we hear the amendment.
8 MR. CROFTS: To the Chair and to the
9 committee, you asked about the amendment. The
10 amendment is as follows. There are five
11 conditions:
12 "The developer shall be subject to the
13 original legal description dated August 8,
14 2008."
15 "The developer shall be subject to the
16 revised written description dated January 5th,
17 2009."
18 Number 3, "The developer shall be subject
19 to the revised site plan dated January 5th,
20 2009."
21 Number 4, "The developer shall be subject
22 to the review and approval of the Development
23 Services Division memorandum dated
24 September 4th, 2008, or as otherwise approved by
25 the Planning and Development Department."
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1 Finally, number 5, "Administrative
2 deviations from the zoning code shall be
3 approved through the PUD to PUD rezoning
4 process."
5 Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Ma'am -- Ms. Sawyer, are you
7 okay with those five conditions?
8 MS. SAWYER: Yes, I am.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Let the record show that she's indicated
11 "yes."
12 All right. All in favor of the amendment
13 signify by saying aye.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 approved the amendment.
19 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
20 MR. HOLT: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
22 seconded as amended.
23 Any discussion on the bill?
24 Mr. Brown.
25 MR. BROWN: Yes. Through the Chair,
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1 Planning, I just wanted to get an idea as to how
2 common it is to have mental health facilities or
3 facilities of these types in neighborhoods.
4 MR. CROFTS: To answer the question -- to
5 give just a little bit of background, this
6 particular piece of property, if you look at
7 your zoning map attached, this is right on the
8 border between Ribault Avenue and the east side
9 of Ribault Avenue.
10 And I would point out that there's been
11 much discussion about this PUD application, and
12 the property -- the history of the property has
13 been that it has had a commercial land use
14 designation and a CCG-2-type zoning since 1972
15 in our records, so the history is there.
16 This is not an ideal situation for
17 juxtaposition of land uses, but there's CCG-2
18 zoning on the east and residential low -- RLD-G
19 on the west.
20 We don't like those kinds of relationships
21 necessarily, but it's a given. It's been there
22 since 1972 or even before that.
23 From the department's perspective, the
24 original written description has been pared back
25 significantly, as you might have noticed in the
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1 revised written description, to a single-family
2 house, and only the single -- only this living
3 facility for eight adults, and in the revised
4 site plan, attempts to address no signage,
5 surveillance, buffers and fences and parking and
6 landscaping and all the things that we feel are
7 appropriate.
8 The department feels that the proposed
9 application provides a reasonable utilization of
10 the property in light of its history and its
11 location, compatibility in the developable
12 standards that apply to -- to this area.
13 So it's adjacent to a residential
14 neighborhood that's historically been there a
15 long time. It's right on the edge, on the
16 periphery of that.
17 These particular uses we regulate through
18 the zoning code to a certain degree by distance,
19 locations, and those types of things, so they're
20 more or less oriented to the edges of
21 neighborhoods and we like to keep distance
22 separations from these particular uses.
23 MR. BROWN: Okay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
25 I see no further things on the queue, so
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1 please open the ballot.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
6 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes nay.)
7 MR. HOLT: (Votes nay.)
8 MR. BROWN: (Votes nay.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
10 the vote.
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Three yeas, three nays.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Looks like this thing stays
14 right here, or does it -- it fails.
15 Ms. Eller.
16 MS. ELLER: Three-three?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Three-three.
18 MS. ELLER: To the committee, you need four
19 to report out of committee. The item will
20 remain on your agenda until you have seven -- in
21 order to have four, either for or against, to
22 report out of committee.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, then it looks
24 like it's here.
25 Do I need to reopen the public hearing, or
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1 should I just --
2 MS. ELLER: I recommend reopening the
3 public hearing since some of the members may
4 want to ask questions when you do have it on
5 your agenda at the next committee meeting.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We will reopen the
7 public hearing and take no further action.
8 Ms. Sawyer, do you understand where you
9 are?
10 MS. SAWYER: There will be another --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Please come to the mic.
12 (Ms. Sawyer approaches the podium.)
13 MS. SAWYER: My understanding is that there
14 will be another LUZ meeting, but there will also
15 be a council meeting on it on Tuesday.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: It will be on the council
17 agenda on Tuesday, so there will be a public
18 hearing just in case you wanted to come and
19 speak to that.
20 MS. ELLER: (Indicating.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: There is no public hearing
22 on this?
23 MS. ELLER: No.
24 To the Chair, the public hearing for this
25 bill, since it does not have a companion land
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1 use map amendment, was held before the full
2 council in October, and so the item is on the
3 LUZ Committee agenda and the public hearing has
4 been continued until the next LUZ Committee
5 meeting, which is on Tuesday, February 3rd.
6 At that time -- the rules state that in
7 order for an item to be voted out of committee,
8 either in the affirmative or the negative, that
9 four members of the committee have to concur.
10 Since the vote was three-three, it just is
11 automatically deferred. And then we reopen the
12 public hearing, so you'll have another
13 opportunity to speak to all seven members on
14 February 3rd.
15 MS. SAWYER: Okay. So the next meeting is
16 February 3rd?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: So the next meeting is
18 February 3rd.
19 MS. SAWYER: Okay. Thank so much for your
20 time. I appreciate it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
22 Okay. We've already done -840.
23 -880 is deferred.
24 Top of page 8. -893 is deferred.
25 -936. We will open the public hearing.
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1 I have Michael -- is that Yates? I can't
2 read your last name.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Michael Altes --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- 4219 Lexington Avenue,
7 Jacksonville, 32210 --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- representing Daniel
10 Memorial Properties.
11 I note that we have a concurrence. We have
12 the recommendation of the Planning and
13 Development Department to approve, the
14 recommendation of the Planning Commission to
15 approve with conditions.
16 I'm available to answer any questions.
17 I'm also pleased to have with me, to answer
18 any questions, Mr. Jim Clark, who is the
19 president of Daniel Memorial. He may wish to
20 have a brief comment if you don't mind.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: You were doing good before
22 you mentioned his name, but that's all right.
23 MR. ALTES: Well, sir, what can I say.
24 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jim Clark, 4203
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1 Southpoint Boulevard.
2 First, I want to thank the council and I
3 want to thank particularly Mr. Redman. I
4 realize many of you do a lot of things and often
5 don't get credit and get complaints, and I just
6 want to say I appreciated the fact that he and
7 Scott actually walked the property, looked at
8 what we were planning to do, and as well as
9 Mr. Gaffney as well. That's correct. I
10 approached you as well.
11 In addition, I would like to invite -- on
12 Monday, we have the beginning of our 125th
13 countdown to our anniversary, and we invite you
14 all to come out for a lunch.
15 As you know, we are looking at putting
16 significant millions of dollars into this piece
17 of property that's going to last, we hope, for
18 another hundred years, and certainly appreciate
19 working with the City planning people to help
20 mediate the issues.
21 And I should tell you first, before we even
22 begin to think about it, we approached our
23 neighbors, made sure that they were appropriate
24 and felt comfortable with this. And, in fact,
25 they are. And I'm pleased to say that one month
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1 later, after my presentation to the homeowners
2 association, they gave us a check for the
3 project to help us along the way.
4 So I think we've got -- we've covered all
5 of our bases.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we appreciate you
7 doing that.
8 And if I can get you to fill out a card so
9 we have it for the record for our court
10 reporter.
11 Thank you, sir.
12 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
13 public hearing.
14 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
15 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
17 and seconded.
18 All in favor of the amendment signify by
19 saying aye.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
24 the amendment.
25 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
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1 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
3 seconded as amended.
4 Any further discussion on the bill?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
7 ballot.
8 (Committee ballot opened.)
9 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
11 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
16 the vote.
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
20 approved 2008-936 as amended.
21 Thank you, gentlemen.
22 MR. ALTES: Thank you. We appreciate it.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: -986, we will open the
24 public hearing.
25 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
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1 public hearing and take no further action.
2 -1024, open the public hearing.
3 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
4 public hearing and take no action.
5 -1025, open the public hearing.
6 We have no speakers, so we'll continue that
7 public hearing and take no action.
8 -1026, we will open that public hearing.
9 Mr. Kravitz.
10 MR. KRAVITZ: Just one, huh?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Just you this time.
12 MR. KRAVITZ: Good. Thank you.
13 Dick Kravitz, 1650 Margaret Street, for the
14 owner.
15 This is the small scale change to the -- a
16 small scale land use change and then the
17 subsequent rezoning. The subject property is
18 approximately .968 acres, located at 2263
19 Lewis Street, adjacent to a railroad crossing
20 with the railroad tracks running parallel to one
21 side of the described property.
22 The subject property was previously the
23 Draper's Egg Company processing plant, chicken
24 processing plant, which included warehouse
25 facilities. The property is currently in the
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1 CGC and MDR land use categories.
2 It appears that this property is one of the
3 many parcels that were overlooked during the
4 City's past efforts to correct numerous
5 inconsistencies in the land use plan. It was
6 recently discovered during the process that the
7 property is advertently split into two land use
8 and zoning districts.
9 The small scale amendment -- this proposed
10 small scale amendment and the companion PUD
11 which follows it would correct that
12 inconsistency. The proposed land use amendment
13 incorporates the current CGC land use in a
14 portion of the subject property and changes the
15 other current land use from MDR to BP.
16 These changes, along with the proposed PUD
17 zoning in the next rezoning -- the next number,
18 would then make the proposed zoning changes
19 consistent with the proposed land use change and
20 the 2010 plan.
21 Both the land use and the subsequent
22 rezoning, PUD, has the support of the Northside
23 Riverside Neighborhood Association. It's
24 consistent with their neighborhood plan. It has
25 the support of Councilman Jones, the Planning
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Department, the Planning Commission.
2 And we're agreeable on the zoning part to
3 the conditions as outlined by the Planning
4 Department.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kravitz, we appreciate
6 your efforts.
7 Seeing no further speakers, we'll close
8 that public hearing.
9 I guess -- want to move the bill?
10 MR. JOOST: I'll move it.
11 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
13 seconded.
14 Any discussion on -1026?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
17 ballot.
18 (Committee ballot opened.)
19 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
21 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
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1 the vote.
2 (Committee ballot closed.)
3 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
5 approved 2008-1026.
6 2008-1027. That's just basically the
7 rezoning that goes along with the small scale.
8 We'll open that public hearing.
9 Mr. Kravitz is here for questions.
10 MR. KRAVITZ: Ditto.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close that public
12 hearing.
13 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
14 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment has been moved
16 and seconded.
17 Can we hear the amendment, please.
18 MR. CROFTS: The conditions are as
19 follows:
20 "The development shall be subject to the
21 original legal description dated January 31,
22 2008."
23 "The development shall be subject to the
24 original written description dated February 22,
25 2008."
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1 Number 3, "The development shall be subject
2 to the original site plan dated November 21,
3 2007."
4 Number 4, "The development shall be subject
5 to the review and approval of the Development
6 Services Division, pursuant to their memorandum
7 dated December 2nd, 2008, or as otherwise
8 approved by the Planning and Development
9 Department."
10 Fifth and finally, "There shall be no
11 access from Clemente Drive."
12 Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you in agreement with
14 that?
15 MR. KRAVITZ: Yes.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kravitz.
17 All in favor of the amendment signify by
18 saying aye.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
23 approved the amendment.
24 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
25 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
2 seconded as amended.
3 Any discussion on the bill?
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
6 ballot.
7 (Committee ballot opened.)
8 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
10 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
15 the vote.
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
19 approved 2008-1027 as amended.
20 MR. KRAVITZ: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, let's go back to --
22 Mr. Harden, what bill was that?
23 MR. HARDEN: Number 18.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Top of page 7, 2008-784.
25 Can I get a motion to take it off the
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1 table?
2 MR. JOOST: I move to take it off the
3 table.
4 MR. HOLT: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
6 seconded.
7 All in favor say aye.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, we are
12 working on Mr. Harden's bill.
13 MR. HARDEN: All right. May I start?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
15 MR. HARDEN: Sean and I have made -- agreed
16 to five changes to the written description,
17 which, really, I think are fairly
18 clarifications.
19 May I read those into the record?
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Please, sir.
21 MR. HARDEN: And then I will provide
22 Shannon with the written description dated
23 January 21st.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
25 MR. HARDEN: So there will be a new written
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1 description.
2 On Page 1, under (B)(1), "Any units higher
3 than two stories shall be interior." And in
4 addition, we're going to add on a sentence, "No
5 building shall exceed 45 feet in height."
6 On page 2, under Parking, there's going to
7 be a sentence added on, "In addition to the two
8 off-street parking spaces" -- "two off-street
9 per unit, plus an additional 40 guest parking
10 spaces."
11 Under Tree Protection and Landscape Buffer,
12 the last sentence shall be changed to read, "The
13 development shall meet the requirements of
14 656.1222 along the Pecan Park frontage."
15 And then the last change is on signage.
16 There may be two single-sided, not double-sided
17 identification signs.
18 And that will be -- those five changes will
19 be incorporated into a written description dated
20 January 21, 2009.
21 Mr. Holt, none of those are inconsistent
22 with my agreement with the neighbors. They
23 clarify generally what the understanding is.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Harden.
25 Mr. Holt, are you fine with those changes?
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1 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Let the record show that
3 Mr. Holt is fine.
4 Mr. Kelly.
5 MR. KELLY: Yes, those are the changes we
6 discussed and we're okay now.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Eller, are you fine
8 with --
9 MS. ELLER: Yes.
10 To the committee, so my understanding is
11 that the amendment is the revised written
12 description dated January 21st, 2009; the
13 original site plan that's dated July 11th, 2008;
14 and no change to the original legal description,
15 which was August 11, 2008.
16 And that's the complete conditions.
17 MR. HARDEN: That is accurate.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Fantastic. I love it when
19 you guys handle stuff on your own.
20 MR. HARDEN: Did you see him beating on me
21 back there? It was very embarrassing.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So that was the
23 amendment.
24 And was that moved and seconded?
25 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
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1 MR. REDMAN: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and
3 seconded.
4 Any further discussion on the amendment?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
7 say aye.
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you approved
12 the amendment.
13 MR. HOLT: Move the bill as amended.
14 MR. JOOST: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
16 seconded as amended.
17 Any further discussion on the bill?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
4 the vote.
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
8 approved 2008-784 as amended.
9 Mr. Harden and Mr. Kelly, I appreciate you
10 guys handling that for us.
11 MR. HARDEN: Did you get to number 29?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: We're there right now.
13 Bottom of page 9, 2009-1028. We will open
14 that public hearing.
15 Mr. Paul Harden.
16 MR. HARDEN: Do you have cards other than
17 mine?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
19 MR. HARDEN: This is a land use map
20 amendment in Councilman Davis's district and
21 then a companion rezoning at that location.
22 The Planning Department has recommended
23 approval. Councilman Davis is in support of the
24 project.
25 I'll be happy to answer any questions.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: We will -- seeing no other
2 speakers, we'll close that public hearing.
3 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
4 MR. HOLT: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
6 seconded.
7 Any discussion on the bill?
8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
10 ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
14 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
19 the vote.
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
23 approved 2008-1028.
24 Thank you, Mr. Harden.
25 MR. HARDEN: 2008-1029 is the companion
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1 rezoning for that.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: -1029, we'll open the public
3 hearing.
4 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 501 Riverside
5 Avenue.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the public hearing.
7 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
8 MR. HOLT: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved
10 motion seconded.
11 Any further discussion on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote.
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved 2008-1029.
3 2008-1030. Open the public hearing.
4 We have -- actually -1030 and -1031, we'll
5 open both those public hearings together.
6 We have Mr. Boswell here for questions.
7 I don't see any questions for you, sir, so
8 we'll close that public hearing.
9 MR. JOOST: Move -1030.
10 MR. HOLT: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: -1030 has been moved and
12 seconded.
13 Any discussion on the bill?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
16 ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
20 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot closed.)
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
4 approved -1030.
5 MR. JOOST: Move -1031.
6 MR. HOLT: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: -1031 has been moved and
8 seconded.
9 Any discussion on the bill?
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
12 ballot.
13 (Committee ballot opened.)
14 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
16 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot.
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
24 approved 2008-1031.
25 2008-1032. Is this -- and -1033.
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1 We will open those public hearings. We
2 have George Brackett.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Sir, are you here for
5 questions?
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm just here to answer
7 questions.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: You're a good man.
9 Seeing no questions, we will close both
10 those public hearings.
11 MR. JOOST: Move -1032.
12 MR. HOLT: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: -1032 has been moved and
14 seconded.
15 Any discussion on -1032?
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
18 ballot.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
22 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
2 the vote.
3 (Committee ballot closed.)
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
6 approved 2008-1032.
7 MR. JOOST: Move -1033.
8 MR. HOLT: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: -1033 has been moved and
10 seconded.
11 Any discussion on the bill?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
14 ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
18 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
23 the vote.
24 (Committee ballot closed.)
25 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
2 approved 2008-1033.
3 Thank you, sir.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: 2008-1047. We will open
6 that public hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
8 hearing.
9 MR. JOOST: Move -1047.
10 MR. HOLT: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: -1047 has been moved and
12 seconded.
13 Any discussion on the bill?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
16 ballot.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
20 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
25 the vote.
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1 (Committee ballot closed.)
2 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
4 approved 2008-1047.
5 2008-1048. We will open the public
6 hearing.
7 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
8 public hearing.
9 Staff, tell us about this amendment.
10 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir.
11 The sign waiver, staff recommends approval
12 with no conditions. We've looked at it. We
13 feel that it's -- will not have a detrimental
14 effect on vehicular or pedestrian traffic. We
15 feel it's consistent with the existing signage
16 in the area. We don't feel it will have a
17 negative impact on the aesthetic character of
18 the area.
19 And we recommend, again, as I said before,
20 approval with no conditions.
21 MR. HOLT: Move to grant the waiver.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved --
23 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: -- and seconded to grant the
25 waiver.
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1 Any discussion on the amendment?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor
4 say aye.
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed.
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
9 approved the amendment.
10 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment to grant the
11 waiver.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Move the bill to grant the
13 waiver.
14 MR. HOLT: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
16 to grant the waiver.
17 Any further discussion?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
20 ballot.
21 (Committee ballot opened.)
22 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
4 the vote.
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
8 approved 2008-1048 to grant the waiver.
9 -1050. We will open the public hearing.
10 Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that
11 public hearing and take no further action.
12 -1060 is an appeal, so we'll come back to
13 that.
14 -1061. We'll open that public hearing.
15 Tom Ingram.
16 (Mr. Ingram approaches the podium.)
17 MR. INGRAM: Good evening.
18 Tom Ingram, 245 Riverside Avenue,
19 Suite 400, and I'm here representing the
20 applicant.
21 This is a notice of proposed change to
22 amend the River City Marketplace DRI to take out
23 a two-and-a-half-acre parcel that is located
24 kind of north of Skymarks Drive and adjacent to
25 the Shands North Campus. This is a property
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1 that's been acquired by the Shands Jacksonville
2 Foundation to be part of its campus.
3 For reasons -- I'm not going to get into
4 great detail unless y'all would like. It
5 behooves Shands to not be part of the River City
6 Marketplace DRI, so the purpose of this change
7 is to remove that two-and-a-half-acre parcel
8 from the development of regional impact.
9 And with me is Joe Sutschek, vice president
10 of development with Ramco Gershenson.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 Any questions?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we will close
15 the public hearing.
16 I will say that I think that project you
17 guys have done is -- far surpasses what anybody
18 thought it was going to do. I know several
19 people that live north of there that are very
20 happy that they don't have to come all the way
21 into town to do their shopping. And the airport
22 is pretty happy with it, so I'm glad that you
23 guys came to town and appreciate your efforts.
24 MR. SUTSCHEK: Thank you very much.
25 And we're also glad we came to town also.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
2 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just
3 need to declare ex-parte.
4 I'm sorry, Shannon. I don't have the date,
5 but I did spoke with Mr. Sutschek about this
6 change. And the reason for it, I believe, is
7 that Shands can't have any sort of concession or
8 beer and wine sale or something on their
9 property, so they have to get rid of that
10 property; is that right?
11 MR. INGRAM: Yeah, if I can try to
12 explain.
13 Under the DRI statutes, hospitals are
14 exempt from development of regional impact
15 review unless they are part of a mixed-use
16 project. Shands -- this is a tiny piece of land
17 in comparison to their 60-acre campus. It would
18 make no sense for them to buy into a whole DRI
19 review just to acquire a parcel which is on the
20 periphery of their existing.
21 So they're going through the review process
22 and going through concurrency and, you know,
23 going through the same review that every other
24 project does that's not a DRI, but that's
25 really -- it's to keep their approval process
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1 simple and not end up being a development
2 partner with Ramco Gershenson in the River City
3 Marketplace project.
4 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Holt.
6 All right. So we are on the bill.
7 Did I get a motion?
8 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
9 MR. HOLT: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and seconded
11 to move the bill.
12 Any discussion on the bill?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
15 ballot.
16 (Committee ballot opened.)
17 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
19 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
24 the vote.
25 (Committee ballot closed.)
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
3 approved 2008-1061.
4 MR. INGRAM: Thank you very much.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
6 2008-1069 is deferred. -1070, -1071 is
7 deferred.
8 Top of page 13. -1072, -73, -74, -75, -76
9 are all deferred.
10 Page 14. -1077. We will open the public
11 hearing.
12 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
13 hearing.
14 Could I get a motion?
15 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
16 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and second
18 to -- it's been moved and seconded.
19 Any discussion on the bill?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
22 ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
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1 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
10 approved 2008-1077.
11 2008-1098. We will open that public
12 hearing.
13 Seeing no speakers, we will close that
14 public hearing.
15 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
16 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
18 seconded.
19 Any discussion on the bill?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
22 ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
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1 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
10 approved -1098.
11 2008-1108. We will open the public
12 hearing.
13 Seeing no speakers, we'll close that public
14 hearing.
15 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
16 DR. GAFFNEY: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The bill has been moved and
18 seconded.
19 Any discussion on the bill?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, please open the
22 ballot.
23 (Committee ballot opened.)
24 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
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1 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Close the ballot and record
6 the vote.
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
10 approved -1108.
11 2009-12, -21, -22, -23, -24, -25, -26, -27,
12 -28, -29, -37 are all second and rereferred.
13 We have -- top of page 12. It's an appeal.
14 We will take a five-minute break so our
15 court reporter can rest her little fingers, and
16 we will take up the appeal.
17 (Brief recess.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Time for the appeal.
19 We're going to let Mr. Joost handle this
20 appeal since he did the agenda, so I will speak
21 to you later.
22 (Mr. Joost assumes the Chair.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: First of all, before we get
24 started, I'd just like Ms. Eller to explain who
25 each party is since there seems to be a little
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1 confusion and we need clarity.
2 MS. ELLER: Sure.
3 To the committee and to the members of the
4 public, this is an appeal of a Planning
5 Commission final order. The Planning Commission
6 final order approved a zoning exception for a
7 day labor pool, and the applicant supports the
8 Planning Commission's position.
9 The Planning Department had recommended
10 denial, and they can speak to their denial. The
11 appellants opposed the day labor pool at the
12 Planning Commission and, therefore, they have
13 appealed the Planning Commission's final order
14 which granted the zoning exception to permit the
15 day labor pool.
16 It's my understanding that the appellants
17 are represented, they are a concise group, and
18 that they may have different speakers who would
19 like to speak at different times, but we did
20 offer at the agenda meeting 10 to 15 minutes,
21 and they can reserve some time for one
22 rebuttal.
23 And then it's my understanding that the
24 applicant for the day labor pool, who supports
25 the Planning Commission's final order which
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 granted the zoning exception, is also here.
2 I believe they're here.
3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
4 MS. ELLER: All right. So you will have
5 15 minutes after they go.
6 And, again, the appellants typically
7 reserve a few minutes for rebuttal, and we do
8 just one round of rebuttals. So they'll go,
9 you'll go, they'll go. And then you'll close
10 the public hearing and you-all will have your
11 debate, and you may ask questions, obviously,
12 during that time.
13 And then the procedure would be to move an
14 amendment to either grant the appeal or deny the
15 appeal. And granting the appeal in this sense
16 would have the effect of overturning the
17 Planning Commission, which granted the zoning
18 exception. Denying the appeal would have the
19 effect of upholding the Planning Commission,
20 which granted the zoning exception.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So just, in short,
22 the Planning Commission denied, the Planning
23 Department approved --
24 MS. ELLER: (Shakes head.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: The other way.
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1 MS. ELLER: Yeah. The Planning Department
2 denied.
3 And after you open -- after the
4 vice chairman, handling it now, would open the
5 public hearing, and then you-all have an
6 opportunity to declare your ex-parte prior to
7 the public hearing beginning.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So, now, which party
9 goes first?
10 MS. ELLER: Open the public hearing.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the public hearing.
12 Any ex-parte? Now is the time to declare.
13 Mr. Redman.
14 MR. REDMAN: I need to declare ex-parte
15 communication with Ms. Jenkins this afternoon.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
17 MS. ELLER: The appellant.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Will the appellant come
19 forward?
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: You'll have ten minutes, and
22 then we'll give you five minutes to rebut.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Just state your name and
25 address for the record.
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. My name is
2 Lou Gena Smith. I reside at 2285 Red Fern
3 Road. That's in 32207 ZIP code.
4 I am the president of the St. Nicholas
5 Business Association, whose boundaries include
6 this site. I'm here representing the members of
7 the association, which are primarily business
8 owners and cannot be present because they are
9 currently operating their businesses.
10 I am also a planner. As a planner who
11 promotes start growth and conducts due diligence
12 analyses of properties for developers, one of
13 the key factors that we look for in a piece of
14 property is zoning.
15 Since zoning or exception requests are
16 never guaranteed, a site that is not properly
17 zoned for the desired use is less attractive, as
18 is the case for this site.
19 The site is zoned commercial community
20 general-2, or CCG-2, which is the most intense
21 commercial district in Jacksonville. This
22 category primarily allows for retail sales and
23 service establishments, open air market uses,
24 entertainment facilities, banks, et cetera.
25 This same category allows only for day labor
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1 pools as a use permitted by exception if
2 properly located with -- other uses are
3 compatible.
4 According to the definition section of
5 Chapter 656, the Zoning Code, Part 16,
6 commercial, retail, sales and service
7 establishments explicitly excludes day labor
8 pools. Day labor pools are only allowed by
9 right in the industrial light, industrial heavy
10 zoning districts of the zoning code.
11 The City of Jacksonville's future land use
12 element considers industrial uses to generally
13 be the most likely to create unacceptable
14 impacts on residential areas. The zoning code
15 reflects this fact as the proposed use is not
16 allowed in commercial-residential-office and
17 commercial-neighborhood zoning districts because
18 day labor pools are neither considered office
19 uses nor neighborhood retail uses. It is
20 considered an industrial use because of its
21 inherent intense nature.
22 As the business association president, I am
23 involved in our many efforts to improve our
24 area, which includes the area between the I-95
25 ramp on Atlantic Boulevard to University
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1 Boulevard on the west and east, and Atlantic
2 Boulevard to the north, and Beach Boulevard to
3 the south.
4 The proposed location is a shopping center,
5 which is one of the few neighborhood commercial
6 retail nodes remaining in our area. We would
7 like this area to be preserved as a retail
8 shopping center as the industrially
9 characterized use would negatively impact the
10 retail character of this intersection and the
11 residential and office uses surrounding the
12 shopping center.
13 I am not opposed to the use -- I'm not
14 opposed to the use because it is a necessary --
15 it is necessary in these harsh economic times,
16 but as a planner, I think that it would be
17 better located in either industrial light or
18 industrial heavy zoning districts.
19 There are plenty of these types of
20 districts available along Philips Highway and
21 Kings Avenue, which are both among -- along JTA
22 bus routes, as indicated on the industrial
23 preservation map and GIS maps that I have.
24 I'd like to pass these around or put them
25 on the overhead for you all to see.
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1 Just for your reference, this here
2 (indicating) is from -- this is the industrial
3 preservation map, L-23, of the future land use
4 element of the comp plan.
5 I also have two maps that I printed out in
6 color from Jax GIS. The colors of the different
7 zoning districts are for industrial light. It's
8 similar to public buildings and facilities, so I
9 hatched off and outlined them with red, so --
10 and I also put a little asterisk of where the
11 proposed location is out at Beach and Art
12 Museum.
13 As I stated earlier, SNBA has been
14 feverishly working to improve the area, and we
15 agree with the Planning Department's
16 recommendation of denial because this use at
17 this specific location is incompatible with the
18 uses in this commercial retail area.
19 Additionally, as we are working to improve
20 the area, this use, at this specific location,
21 would hurt the area's potential for
22 redevelopment and infill.
23 Lastly, I would like to speak to the last
24 point of the Planning Department's
25 recommendation of denial, site design factors.
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1 The appellee indicated at Planning
2 Commission that its customers would not have to
3 report back to the location once placed with a
4 job, but they would be inundated at the
5 beginning. Well, the site is not appropriate
6 for this intensity, even if for a little while.
7 Their lease space would only be 1,200 square
8 feet and is limited to withstanding the capacity
9 of all their customers.
10 Where are all the customers going to be
11 situated while they wait to be transported?
12 Mr. Mazzula (phonetic) stated that their
13 customers will use either JTA buses or their own
14 vehicles. Was this considered when conducting
15 the parking calculations?
16 This use, at this location, will hurt the
17 other businesses and distract motorists passing
18 by on their way to work during rush hour, even
19 if at -- just at the beginning.
20 To summarize, this proposed use would be
21 better located in an industrially-zoned
22 district, which are available within proximity
23 of the proposed location on Philips Highway and
24 Kings Avenue, which you are now looking at. As
25 such, I have determined, as has the Planning
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1 Department recommended, that the proposed use at
2 this location would have a detrimental effect on
3 the health, safety, and welfare of the area
4 because it is not compatible with the
5 surrounding uses.
6 Additionally, the proposed use would have a
7 detrimental effect on the vehicular and
8 pedestrian traffic flow within the shopping
9 center's parking lot.
10 I urge you to support our appeal of the
11 final order which approved the use as an
12 exception at the northeast corner of
13 Beach Boulevard and Art Museum.
14 Thank you.
15 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
17 My name is Jeannie Holler. I live at
18 4614 Clinton Avenue.
19 I'm the president of the Greater Englewood
20 Neighborhood Association.
21 I wish to say that I support the Planning
22 Department's recommendation of denial of the use
23 of the rezoning of Beach Boulevard.
24 Since 1995, GENA has been -- or Greater
25 Englewood Neighborhood Association has been
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1 actively involved in fighting blight. And this,
2 we are concerned, would add more blight to our
3 area.
4 We are a large association with a number of
5 very active members and newsletters going out at
6 1,500 a month. Bringing this before our
7 membership, it was unanimously voted by our
8 membership that they did not wish to have this
9 business on Beach Boulevard. They are against
10 the rezoning, and I speak to you this evening on
11 behalf of all of us.
12 We acknowledge all businesses that add to
13 our community. We are in partnership with many
14 of the retail business throughout the area. We
15 work with them and they are sponsors.
16 I feel that it would ultimately destroy
17 that strip mall. And once it's gone, you can't
18 bring it back. This is my concern.
19 We, in GENA, are not concerned about the
20 business itself. We welcome the business
21 because people need to work this day and time,
22 but what we do not wish to see is our retail
23 destroyed because when you destroy businesses,
24 you're going to be bringing down the
25 communities.
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1 So many of these people -- especially
2 seniors, they're able to walk to these stores.
3 Our concern is parking.
4 So this all goes into the concerns we have
5 of this, and I -- as I said, I feel that this
6 business is a positive business, but someplace
7 else, not in that particular area.
8 In a previous meeting, I wish to say this,
9 the owner of the said prospective day labor
10 business spoke of a bar where he found drunks
11 lying around. Through my own research, I
12 learned the bar of which he spoke. Well,
13 that's -- nothing could be farther from the
14 truth.
15 And I have some information here that's --
16 came up off the Internet that I'd like to share
17 with you.
18 This bar was supposed to bring blight. He
19 was inferring that this was blight already
20 coming into the area.
21 And this comes from an article in the
22 Times-Union -- so if you would pass that
23 around -- written by Laura Capitana (phonetic).
24 This is a bar, but it is a singing bar
25 where they have different rooms for parties to
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1 go, and they enjoy themselves. It's karaoke.
2 My point being is that this is not blight.
3 These are people that are enjoying themselves
4 singing. They have just tons of equipment in
5 this area of business for people to get up and
6 sing. They do drink beer, but you can't -- you
7 can't really drink a lot of beer when you're
8 singing.
9 So I wish to address that point, and what
10 concerns me is the gentleman possibly did not do
11 his homework or he's not being completely open
12 and above board with us.
13 The cost is -- to get into this place is
14 five dollars an hour, you know. So when you go
15 into this karaoke bar, you're only going to be
16 maybe sitting there for a couple of hours and
17 you're going to be singing a lot. My point
18 being is this is not blight.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ma'am, I just want to
20 let you know your limit is at five minutes, so
21 if you want to --
22 MS. HOLLER: Oh, I'm sorry.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: No, if you want to continue
24 speaking --
25 MS. HOLLER: Thank you.
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1 I will --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: That's okay, but you may
3 want to save some time for rebuttal.
4 MS. HOLLER: Okay. Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: So you're going into your
6 rebuttal time.
7 MS. HOLLER: As I said earlier, this is not
8 about the day [sic] business coming in there.
9 We wish to see it come up in another area.
10 And, in closing, I ask all of you to really
11 think seriously about this situation and think
12 of it as coming into your community and maybe
13 destroying some of your retail.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
16 Next speaker is Ms. Suzanne Jenkins.
17 Do you want to save rebuttal time or do
18 you --
19 MS. JENKINS: I'll save for the rebuttal.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And the next speaker
21 after that is Kenny Kennedy.
22 Are you on the opposing side?
23 MR. KENNEDY: Yes.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: So you oppose the
25 legislation, then?
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1 MR. KENNEDY: Yeah. I'm with the day
2 labor.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Come on up.
4 (Mr. Kennedy approaches the podium.)
5 MR. KENNEDY: My name is Kenny Kennedy, and
6 I reside at 4235 Marsh Landing Boulevard,
7 Jax Beach.
8 Basically, we just tried to open up a day
9 labor. I've been in the business almost ten
10 years, and my partner has been the same way.
11 It's unfortunately, but -- that this particular
12 city and other cities before seem to stereotype
13 the business.
14 You know, speaking of retail down on Beach
15 Boulevard, there's like -- if you go down from
16 where Emerson is all the way down to Kmart over
17 there at University, there's several vacant
18 areas. There's so many different places for
19 rent, and so there's other places for retail,
20 for people to go in there.
21 If we knew when we went for the exception
22 that this was going to be an issue about retail,
23 then we probably wouldn't have ever went in
24 there and tried to get an exception at all.
25 This has just been a lot of time and effort, all
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1 to find out that they didn't want our particular
2 type of business in there because of retail.
3 The landlord already knew that -- excuse
4 me -- knew about our business. She lives in
5 Orlando. She's -- she already knew what was
6 going on from the -- we have another business of
7 the same in Orlando. She lives right down the
8 road from it, so she was aware of what was going
9 in.
10 So, unfortunately, where the strip mall
11 they're talking about is Dollar General, and
12 there is a karaoke bar or -- whether who drinks,
13 sings, or whatever, it's irrelevant. Drinking
14 is drinking. So people do get drunk or whatever
15 that -- I, personally, saw someone laying out
16 there. It could have been someone from the
17 Dollar General, had nothing to do with the bar.
18 It could have been from the restaurant next
19 door. It's irrelevant.
20 Point being is that I believe that these
21 people seem to stereotype. All we're trying to
22 do is find people jobs and -- but they want us
23 to go down into particular areas where people
24 don't have the access to get to -- to and from
25 work.
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1 These people go to work at 5 o'clock every
2 morning, and they're pretty well dispatched by
3 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock in the -- by the morning,
4 before the -- before the people already open up,
5 their business is already open.
6 When they get paid, if they do come back to
7 get paid at all, either be at the end of the
8 week or it be Friday about 5 or 6 o'clock --
9 which it would only be, like, a 10- or 15-minute
10 inclement [sic] of getting paid.
11 So it's just -- unfortunately, this whole
12 ordeal, I think, has just been particularly
13 stereotyped. And about retail -- if we knew it
14 was about retail, we never would have applied
15 for an exception for this particular area.
16 That's all I have to say.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Anybody else --
18 (Inaudible discussion.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: After we close down the
20 thing, then we can ask questions.
21 Anybody else on the opposing side?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: No.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Ms. Jenkins, would
24 you like to come up for your final -- how much
25 do they have left?
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1 MR. GRAHAM: Five minutes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Five minutes.
3 (Ms. Jenkins approaches the podium.)
4 MS. JENKINS: Thank you.
5 Suzanne Jenkins, 4765 Silver Ridge Court,
6 Jacksonville, Florida 32207.
7 I'm going to refer to the staff's report,
8 in support of it, but I would like to put the
9 picture that they have included in their report
10 up on the overhead so that you can see what I'm
11 talking about, and when I rebut to where they
12 want to locate and the problems with parking and
13 the existing businesses that are there.
14 I did go in and talk to the Dollar Store,
15 to the World Market. We are a diverse
16 community. We have a lot Hispanics, Asians,
17 Russians, and Bosnians, so we have a
18 World Market there as well.
19 Where this is located -- and I can't see
20 when it's up on the map, but you can see the X
21 is located -- that's the building that they want
22 to locate in. If you see the parking lot, I
23 have circled two of the utility poles to show
24 you that that sits back behind that first row of
25 parking. If there is ever any improvements done
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1 to that area for a bus pull-off lane or any
2 transportation improvements, all of that area is
3 right-of-way and all of that parking will
4 disappear.
5 So my concern is, if you bring in a day
6 labor or a like service that brings in a lot of
7 cars or pick-up/drop-offs, you're going to
8 severely impact the parking that's there by
9 right, plus what they have right now in the
10 right-of-way. Those are my concerns.
11 We do not object to the use of day labor.
12 Greater Englewood is a diverse community. We
13 have plenty of zonings all around us, on Philips
14 Highway, Kings Avenue, Powers Avenue, for day
15 labor that -- and they all are accessible by the
16 bus line as well as driving or carpooling.
17 So we're not against the use, per se, just
18 losing any bit of retail that we currently have
19 on Beach Boulevard. We want to preserve what we
20 have and then add to what is remaining.
21 Yes, we have a lot of areas that are open
22 or for rent or for lease. And, you know, they
23 come and go, retail does, because that's the
24 life of retail, but it is retail and that's what
25 we support. And when they come in, we as a
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1 community support them, we reach out to them, we
2 put them in our newsletter, ask our -- make sure
3 that people know that they're there and ask our
4 members and our committee -- or our community to
5 utilize our small businesses there. We feel
6 that's a partnership that has worked well for
7 our neighborhood for -- since '95, and we want
8 to preserve that use at that place.
9 It's not against -- we are not
10 stereotyping. We have friends who -- and
11 families that are members of our neighborhood
12 association who do day labor. It is not against
13 day labor people or the use, just the location.
14 Thank you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: You still have two minutes
16 left, if you would like to --
17 (Ms. Smith approaches the podium.)
18 MS. SMITH: I'd like to rebut a couple of
19 their points that they made.
20 Well, first of all, they should have
21 contacted us first. They said that they
22 didn't -- they didn't get any opposition from
23 the neighborhoods except for the Southeast
24 CPAC. Well, they should have looked at the
25 mailing list that the Planning Department puts
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1 together, 350 feet surrounding the site, and our
2 name would have been there.
3 If they would have contacted us, we could
4 have told them that we didn't want that type of
5 use in that location there. We wouldn't even be
6 here today. We wouldn't be wasting all of
7 y'all's time. We wouldn't be wasting their
8 time.
9 Again, they didn't do their due diligence,
10 and we, the neighborhood, should not have to
11 suffer the consequences because of that.
12 Secondly, Kings Avenue, which has a lot of
13 industrial light, which is primarily industrial
14 light zoning, has a bus route along it where
15 their customers could come and go easily.
16 Additionally, there is a staffing company
17 already on Kings Avenue. Why not have two
18 businesses there where the people could come on
19 their bus and go to one, fill out an
20 application, and go to the other one, fill out
21 the application. I mean, that would be the best
22 scenario for people who don't have money and
23 have to use the bus system in order to transport
24 themselves.
25 That's it. Thank you.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
2 Mr. Kennedy, you still have some time for
3 rebuttal --
4 (Inaudible discussion.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there no rebuttal?
6 (Mr. Kennedy approaches the podium.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry.
8 Let me close the public hearing, and then
9 we can ask questions.
10 The public hearing is closed.
11 Okay. Mr. Redman.
12 MR. REDMAN: Mr. Kennedy.
13 (Mr. Kennedy approaches the podium.)
14 MR. REDMAN: Have y'all -- or did you
15 consider other areas when you decided to come to
16 Jacksonville with this, maybe, possibly
17 industrial areas where you would not have to
18 seek a variance?
19 MR. KENNEDY: Yes, sir.
20 Basically -- because I told you, I've been
21 in the business for ten years. I'm from this
22 area, from the beach itself.
23 I -- there used to be a labor pool there,
24 right in that building itself. I did do my
25 due -- I did do my homework, and that is a
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1 really great location. That is exactly why --
2 If I wanted to go where IH is, which is
3 basically on Talleyrand or Kings Road, if we
4 want to -- to sought [sic] that kind of
5 environment, we would have did that as well,
6 then we wouldn't have the agg- -- come to waste
7 your time for a variance itself.
8 That's why we seek the variance, because we
9 knew that was a good location, we knew exactly
10 where we wanted to be, and we knew that there
11 was a labor pool there before.
12 We did our homework by asking. We knew
13 that the -- the owner of the strip mall itself,
14 and we already had that approval as well.
15 That's why we did what we did, but we did do our
16 homework.
17 MR. REDMAN: Well, I've been in that area
18 for 40 years. I don't remember a day labor
19 business running out of there.
20 MR. KENNEDY: It was workers. It was
21 workers, temporary staffing.
22 MR. REDMAN: Okay. How many people will
23 visit your office in a day --
24 MR. KENNEDY: Well, the way --
25 MR. REDMAN: -- approximately?
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1 MR. KENNEDY: The way the economy is right
2 now -- because they're just trying to find a
3 job. It's unfortunately that it's -- it's rough
4 out there right now. They can go anywhere from
5 10 to 20 people a day. I mean, it's really hard
6 to say.
7 It's basically we go out there and we try
8 to find people's job [sic], and we actually --
9 you know, we actually put money back into the
10 city. And the people that come there -- which I
11 don't understand -- they actually would spend
12 money in that retail. I'm not quite sure why a
13 [sic] parking would be an issue. If you want to
14 open up retail, who's going to come and shop if
15 they ain't got no parking? So I don't even know
16 why a parking would even be an issue for them.
17 MR. REDMAN: Well, if they all drove cars,
18 it be would be an issue, maybe not if they rode
19 the bus, but there is a concern about -- the
20 people that are going to be left there without a
21 job are going to be loitering around and hanging
22 around there in the parking lot. That concerns
23 me, that this could be a problem.
24 MR. KENNEDY: Well, yes, sir. I understand
25 that. Like I said, it -- I represent myself as
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1 far as business. We don't have riffraff that
2 hang around there, nor would I let riffraff hang
3 around my house. It's just not the -- nor would
4 any other business let any riffraff hang around
5 their business. That is just not good business.
6 MR. REDMAN: Well, what do you consider
7 riffraff?
8 MR. KENNEDY: (Inaudible.)
9 (Simultaneous speaking.)
10 MR. REDMAN: If a person is looking for a
11 job, they probably don't have any money.
12 MR. KENNEDY: Well, people loitering, what
13 they were trying to say. If someone doesn't
14 have a job or loitering, why would they -- we
15 let them stay there?
16 Same thing. If no one has no money to go
17 buy nothing at the Dollar General, why would
18 they stay there?
19 MR. REDMAN: Hoping somebody might come by
20 and take them out for a --
21 MR. KENNEDY: That's not how our business
22 works, though. That's the stereotype type
23 thing.
24 MR. REDMAN: So these people, how do they
25 get paid that would get a job through your
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1 business?
2 MR. KENNEDY: They get paid by a check,
3 either daily or weekly, depending on what we
4 offer. We do things at the coliseum, we do
5 things with Waste Management. Every --
6 everything is different, especially with the
7 economy the way it is right now.
8 A lot of people are laying off full-time
9 workers, and this is where the day labor and our
10 staffing comes into play because the average
11 person can't keep a full-time staff, where they
12 can use us for eight hours or ten hours, and we
13 get -- put money back in these people's pocket.
14 MR. REDMAN: So you would get paid by the
15 company and then you would pay a paycheck to
16 each individual?
17 MR. KENNEDY: Yes, sir.
18 Actually, what we do is we actually pay our
19 workers first with the intent -- where the
20 client is paying us within 30 or 60 days.
21 MR. REDMAN: I know you went through --
22 before the Southeast CPAC with your plans here,
23 and what was their recommendation?
24 MR. KENNEDY: Deny it.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Can you step a little closer
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1 to the microphone?
2 MR. KENNEDY: They wanted to deny it.
3 MR. REDMAN: They denied it?
4 MR. KENNEDY: Yes, sir.
5 MR. REDMAN: Well, you know, I -- and the
6 Planning Department denied it.
7 So, you know, I'm going to have to go along
8 with the Planning Department's idea. I just
9 don't think it would be a good fit for the
10 community and for the businesses along there in
11 that area.
12 Thank you, sir.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Graham.
14 MR. GRAHAM: Yes. Through the vice chair
15 to the Planning Department, it doesn't say on
16 here whose district this is. Is this Don
17 Redman's district?
18 MR. KELLY: District 4.
19 MR. GRAHAM: District 4.
20 Also, the other question I have -- so if we
21 want to support the day labor, we vote no on
22 this bill; is that correct?
23 MS. ELLER: Yes.
24 MR. GRAHAM: And if we don't wish to
25 support the day labor, we vote green?
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1 MS. ELLER: Correct.
2 An amendment to grant the appeal would
3 support the members in opposition because the
4 Planning Commission granted the zoning exception
5 below.
6 MR. GRAHAM: So if -- that's the other
7 question.
8 So if you want to -- if you want to support
9 the day labor, then you would --
10 MS. ELLER: Deny the appeal.
11 MR. GRAHAM: -- you would move to deny the
12 appeal, then vote green?
13 MS. ELLER: Yes.
14 MR. GRAHAM: If you don't want to support
15 the day labor, then you move to grant the appeal
16 and vote green?
17 MS. ELLER: Uh-huh.
18 MR. GRAHAM: Gotcha.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brown.
20 MR. BROWN: Yes. Through the vice chair
21 to -- if I can have one of the -- Ms. Jenkins to
22 come forward, please.
23 (Ms. Jenkins approaches the podium.)
24 MR. BROWN: If you could, tell me some --
25 what are some of the type of businesses that you
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1 have in that shopping plaza?
2 MS. JENKINS: Sure.
3 We have the day labor -- not day labor. We
4 have the Dollar Store General [sic]. We have
5 the World Market that deals with Hispanic and
6 Asian foods. We have a sandwich shop that is
7 open for breakfast and lunch. We have a karaoke
8 bar that you go in to pay. You can rent rooms
9 and have parties and do your karaoke. They have
10 different fees, depending on what kind of room
11 you want to rent for how long. And then we have
12 a very -- at the very end, a very small thrift
13 store. And that's in that general -- that is in
14 that building. The sandwich shop is next door
15 to it.
16 And then across the street we have
17 another -- kind of across the street and
18 adjacent, just catercorner, is another strip
19 area that has an antique store, and then there
20 is a small convenience store -- because these
21 all -- buildings were built in the '50s and
22 '60s, close to the roads at the time. So the
23 reuse of them is hard to do, and it's hard --
24 site specific, so you have much smaller uses of
25 the commercial and the retail there.
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1 We also have a -- what's called All-State
2 Vacuum. So they -- you go in there and buy your
3 vacuum cleaner or parts for it, and they also
4 have some janitorial supplies. That's adjacent
5 from it. Next to it is a car dealership that's
6 currently empty. It was -- did have somebody in
7 it. Actually, there's a new group in it called
8 Atlas Motors. They just moved in, and they
9 are -- they're a sponsor of the neighborhood
10 association as well.
11 So, like I said, we try to work and
12 preserve our retail because we do -- not only
13 walkable, but the seniors who live in the -- and
14 this is a senior-intensive community. They like
15 to not have to drive far to get the things that
16 they want to get for their home. So it's
17 convenient for them, they don't feel like they
18 have to get out in the crazy traffic and enabled
19 to maintain their independence by utilizing the
20 small retail that's available around us. That's
21 one of the reasons that we work so hard to keep
22 our retail and sponsor them in our newsletters.
23 Like Ms. Holler said, we put out 1,500
24 newsletters a month that carries our retail
25 sponsors and encourages our members and others
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 to use our small retail businesses so that we
2 don't have empty buildings.
3 MR. BROWN: Okay. Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing no further
5 speakers --
6 MS. JENKINS: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: -- anybody want to move one
8 of the amendments?
9 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment to grant the
10 appeal.
11 MR. REDMAN: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And just for
13 clarification purposes, to grant -- to move the
14 appeal would basically deny the day labor; is
15 that correct?
16 MS. ELLER: Correct.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All those in favor of
18 the amendment say aye.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Any of those opposed?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You moved -- the
23 amendment passes.
24 MR. GRAHAM: Move the bill as amended to
25 grant the appeal.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. HOLT: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The bill has been
3 moved and amended to grant the appeal.
4 Are we ready to vote?
5 MS. ELLER: (Nods head.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Open the ballot.
7 (Committee ballot opened.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Lock the ballot.
9 Stand by.
10 MR. GRAHAM: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
13 DR. GAFFNEY: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. REDMAN: (Abstains.)
16 (Committee ballot closed.)
17 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays, and one
18 abstention.
19 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nays.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
22 moved to grant the appeal to deny the day
23 labor.
24 All right. No further business, this
25 committee is closed.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
2 7:40 p.m.)
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL :
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6 I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was
7 authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
9 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
10 Dated this 25th day of January, 2009.
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Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203