1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Wednesday, June 2,


       7   2010, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        RAY HOLT, Chair.

                WARREN JONES, Vice Chair.

      14        REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.

                DANIEL DAVIS, Committee Member.

      15        JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.

                DON REDMAN, Committee Member.



      17   ALSO PRESENT:


      18        JOHN CRESCIMBENI, City Council Member.

                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      19        SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

      20        STEVE ROHAN, Office of General Counsel.

                JASON GABRIEL, Office of General Counsel.

      21        DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

                RICK CAMPBELL, Research Assistant.

      22        MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

                JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.

      23        SHARONDA DAVIS, Legislative Assistant.


      24                         -  -  -







           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   June 2, 2010                            5:05 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right, everybody.  I


       5        think we're about ready to start.


       6             I don't think we're going to be too


       7        terribly long tonight.  We've got a couple of


       8        issues that will probably have some discussion,


       9        but not too many.


      10             MR. BROWN:  (Inaudible.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Mr. Brown was


      12        just telling me that he's going to have to leave


      13        for a little bit, but we've got Mr. Davis here,


      14        so we should still be good.  Nobody is allowed


      15        to go to the bathroom when Mr. Brown leaves.


      16             All right.  Well, everybody, let's --


      17        council members, let's start on page 2.  We


      18        won't even do our introductions, just look at


      19        our nameplates.


      20             Item 1 is deferred.


      21             Item 2, there is a sub.


      22             MR. JONES:  Move the sub.


      23             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


      25        sub.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We do a voice vote on that?


       2             MS. LAHMEUR:  Yes.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor of the sub


       4        signify by saying aye.


       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The sub is approved.


       7             We need a motion to rerefer.


       8             MR. JONES:  Move the sub -- move to rerefer


       9        the sub.


      10             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second to rerefer


      12        to LUZ.


      13             Please open the ballot.


      14             (Committee ballot opened.)


      15             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      17             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      19             (Committee ballot closed.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      21        vote.


      22             Mr. Davis.


      23             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      24             Sorry.


      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nays.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       2        subbed and rereferred 2009-864.


       3             Page 3, item number 3, 2010-253.  We will


       4        open the public hearing.


       5             Did we want to introduce this and give some


       6        more details before we start taking speakers,


       7        Mr. Kelly?


       8             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


       9             To the Chair and members of the committee,


      10        ordinance 2010-253 seeks to amend both


      11        Chapter 13 of Section 656, the Zoning Code, and


      12        Chapter 741 dealing with the zero tolerance for


      13        litter.  The bill authorizes temporary


      14        directional real estate signs during the


      15        weekends in the public right-of-way.  The signs


      16        are limited from 3 p.m. on Friday afternoon


      17        until 3 p.m. on Sunday afternoon.


      18             All of the staff's recommended conditions


      19        regarding the placement and the location of the


      20        signs have been basically incorporated into this


      21        substituted bill that's in front of you tonight,


      22        so we are confident that the location and the


      23        placement of the signs will not result in any


      24        detriment to the visual aesthetics or public


      25        safety at all.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Additionally, the bill creates definitions


       2        for temporary election signs as well as


       3        definitions for a free expression sign.  The


       4        free expression signage functions to communicate


       5        views on matters of public policy or any other


       6        noncommercial message.  However, a free


       7        expression sign may also communicate a


       8        commercial message in a commercial district.


       9        The temporary election signs and free expression


      10        signs are permitted on private property only and


      11        are required to be at least 10 feet set back


      12        from the right-of-way.


      13             The additional part of this legislation is


      14        that we introduced a definition for what's


      15        called a snipe sign.  Those are the signs you


      16        typically see in the medians and in the


      17        right-of-ways along the roadways, and -- and


      18        that is basically now considered to be abandoned


      19        property for -- in terms of the City's view of


      20        these.  And, as such, it's considered litter and


      21        therefore subject to fines.  For each snipe sign


      22        offense, that ranges from $50 up to $350 per


      23        offense.


      24             (Dr. Gaffney enters the proceedings.)


      25             MR. KELLY:  What those fines do is




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        basically effectuate the zero tolerance on


       2        litter law that's currently on the books that


       3        this is basically implementing, and what it


       4        does, it takes monies that are collected as a


       5        result of citations issued on the snipe signs to


       6        go towards -- 70 percent towards the maintenance


       7        of the bus shelters within the JTA bus routes to


       8        keep them maintained and free of litter.  That


       9        goes into a sub account, additionally, to


      10        conduct public awareness and education programs


      11        to advance the zero tolerance for litter


      12        program.


      13             MR. DAVIS:  Can I --


      14             MR. KELLY:  Yes, sir.


      15             MR. DAVIS:  (Inaudible.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  Go ahead.


      17             MR. DAVIS:  I think that -- a little bit of


      18        clarification on this.  And I think the chairman


      19        mentioned this during a noticed meeting, but


      20        the -- the idea of the permit fee for the real


      21        estate directional sign, that's where we would


      22        generate our money to go out with City folk and


      23        pick up signs and litter that would litter up


      24        the right-of-way.  Although we would have the


      25        citizen group that would be able -- the fine




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        situation is totally different than the permit


       2        situation, so -- I know that there was some


       3        concern about splitting up the monies from the


       4        fine to handle the JTA issues, but I think that


       5        we're talking apples and oranges between the


       6        permit revenue and the fine revenue.


       7             So I just wanted to be real clear that


       8        that's going to stay, and I would even -- when


       9        we get into the nuts and bolts of this, take


      10        that permit money and us capture it and


      11        designate it for that purpose, if -- just to


      12        make sure it doesn't get lost somewhere in the


      13        general budget, so --


      14             Sorry about that, Mr. Kelly.


      15             MR. KELLY:  The bill also provides for a


      16        severability clause so that -- should any


      17        portion of the legislation be determined to be


      18        unconstitutional, that specific portion would be


      19        struck only and all other -- all other


      20        components of the bill would still remain.


      21             The Planning Commission voted -- the


      22        department is recommending a straight approval.


      23        This did go to Planning Commission.  It was


      24        discussed for some time.  There was two


      25        amendments offered up at the Planning




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Commission.  I can read those into the record.


       2        One deals specifically with business owners that


       3        are adversely impacted on any kind of


       4        right-of-way or road improvement project where


       5        there's a -- temporary construction that's


       6        occurring and allowing some signage for them --


       7        directional signage for business owners in those


       8        situations when they're not already included as


       9        part of a maintenance of traffic plan for the


      10        road improvement project.


      11             Additionally, there was an amendment


      12        basically specifying that the -- 70 percent of


      13        the funds derived from the fines basically be


      14        withheld from the JTA maintenance program and


      15        put into the general fund until such time that


      16        the JTA basically reverses the ordinance


      17        2009-401 bill and basically makes the bus


      18        shelter signage illegal up until that point.


      19             That's the effect of it.  I can read it


      20        into the -- into the record.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis.


      22             MR. DAVIS:  I would just say -- and I think


      23        that Mr. Kelly is just relaying information.  I


      24        would like to take these amendments up


      25        separately.  One of them I believe has merit,




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the other I think there will probably be some


       2        discussion over, so --


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah, we'll do that after


       4        the public hearing.


       5             MR. DAVIS:  Okay.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that all you had,


       7        Mr. Kelly?


       8             MR. KELLY:  Yes, that's it.


       9             The -- again, this is primarily the real


      10        estate directional signs during the weekend,


      11        which the department supports on a temporary


      12        basis.  The justification for this was -- in the


      13        bill is also all specified based on the housing


      14        crisis and the issues surviving -- or


      15        surrounding the cost of housing and the


      16        appreciation, and so there's a direct


      17        correlation there to -- to a need that's


      18        temporary in nature.  That also has a sunset


      19        provision, so the department and -- in our


      20        discussions with the Office of General Counsel


      21        is confident that this is a good bill.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly, could you explain


      23        to us the piece having to do with the voluntary


      24        enforcement?  I'd like for everybody to get to


      25        hear that.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  (Inaudible.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  The voluntary force that --


       3        similar to our handicapped traffic --


       4        handicapped space enforcement that Mr. Brinton


       5        was telling us about.


       6             MR. KELLY:  The -- in terms of -- and that


       7        I'm not that familiar with.  It -- as part of


       8        this legislation, the -- I know in terms of the


       9        enforcement with the snipe signs in the


      10        right-of-way and that there's groups that go


      11        around and -- volunteer groups that go out and


      12        pick up those signs.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, I'm sorry.  I


      14        thought from our agenda meeting that this was


      15        actually part of the bill.


      16             MR. DAVIS:  It is.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Brinton, you're giving a


      18        familiar nod.  Are you able to address that when


      19        your time comes up to speak?


      20             MR. BRINTON:  I will be able to, yes.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Excellent.  That's


      22        fine.  That's all I needed to know.


      23             Mr. Jones wanted to ask a question.


      24             MR. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      25             Through the Chair to Mr. Kelly, the -- two




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        questions.  Under the real estate signs, you're


       2        talking about the ones that are in the


       3        right-of-way, not the ones on private property?


       4             MR. KELLY:  Correct.  Those would be


       5        directional real estate signs in the


       6        right-of-way directing them to a model home, a


       7        subdivision, or an open house situation.


       8             MR. JONES:  Okay.  There's a permit --


       9        there will be a permit required to get -- to


      10        have those signs placed in the right-of-way?


      11             MR. KELLY:  Correct.  It's a onetime permit


      12        fee of $100, valid for one year.


      13             MR. JONES:  Is that per company or how does


      14        that --


      15             MR. KELLY:  It's per sign.


      16             MR. JONES:  Per sign.


      17             So if I put a directional sign out for a


      18        house on Laura Street today and tomorrow I have


      19        one on Bay Street, I can use the same sign?


      20        That permit covers that same sign?


      21             MR. KELLY:  The sign is permitted at the


      22        location that's --


      23             MR. JONES:  So it's $100 per location?


      24             MR. KELLY:  Correct.  So that -- that's a


      25        permanent location for those hours during the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        weekends for that year.


       2             MR. JONES:  That would work with a


       3        subdivision.  It wouldn't work with an open


       4        house because, I mean, you do an open house once


       5        and then -- you use it once or twice and then


       6        you're done with the open house.


       7             Mr. Davis, you wanted to --


       8             MR. DAVIS:  Through the Chair, if that's


       9        okay --


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


      11             MR. DAVIS:  -- I believe it would because


      12        it would still be a mile from the location that


      13        you're -- the directional signage is sending


      14        someone to, whether it's an open house that


      15        sells and then you move to another open house.


      16             And I guess if it's unclear about that, my


      17        thoughts would be -- I would be fine with -- I


      18        didn't want it to be five miles away.  It needed


      19        to be close to the location.  But my assumption


      20        was that -- if somebody had a -- if you had an


      21        open house on 103rd Street and then you sold


      22        that house and you had another open house on


      23        Beach, as long as it was a mile from that


      24        location you would be able to use that same


      25        sign.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JONES:  Okay.  But according to


       2        Mr. Kelly that's not the case.  The site, the


       3        location is the permitted -- not the number of


       4        signs, just --


       5             (Simultaneous speaking.)


       6             MR. KELLY:  I mean, I wouldn't be opposed


       7        to it being relocated.  I think it's permitted


       8        initially on the location that it's at.  And if


       9        that location is no longer needed, they can


      10        probably transfer that sign provided it's at a


      11        location that meets all the locational criteria


      12        as well, which is --


      13             MR. JONES:  Is there a cost to transfer the


      14        location?


      15             MR. KELLY:  We would be okay with that --


      16             MR. JONES:  Okay.


      17             MR. KELLY:  -- an administrative --


      18             MR. JONES:  So you could pay for the sign,


      19        the permit for one year, and then you could


      20        relocate -- transfer that location?


      21             MR. KELLY:  That would be acceptable.


      22             MR. JONES:  Okay.


      23             MR. DAVIS:  Do you need clarification on


      24        that?


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. GABRIEL:  Jason Gabriel here.


       2             Through the Chair to the commission -- or


       3        to the committee, I think Councilman Davis is


       4        correct, that the temporary directional real


       5        estate sign could be within one mile as long as


       6        it's within a hundred -- or outside of a hundred


       7        foot from another sign.  So that's the way it


       8        reads right now.


       9             MR. JONES:  I think that answered my -- I


      10        was just concerned about the cost of permitting


      11        a sign if you're doing an open house because you


      12        do an open house this weekend at one location,


      13        next weekend you may be at another, and you have


      14        to get a permit -- each time you do an open


      15        house, you'd have -- and wanted directional


      16        signs, there would be a $100 cost if you could


      17        not transfer those signs.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Does that answer your


      19        questions?


      20             MR. JONES:  Yes.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


      22             Mr. Redman.


      23             MR. REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      24             Do I understand that there would not be a


      25        fee for the real estate sign to go in a yard or




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        in front of the house?


       2             MR. KELLY:  (Off microphone.)


       3             MR. REDMAN:  What about a sale of a -- by


       4        owner, if they wanted to put a directional sign,


       5        would they be able to get a directional sign by


       6        paying the fee?


       7             MR. KELLY:  The individual real estate


       8        signs on private property would not be subject


       9        to this same criteria.  That's a separate


      10        provision under Part 13.  It's dealt with


      11        separately.  So you could have a real estate


      12        sign.  As part of the commercial and


      13        noncommercial free speech, it would apply in


      14        those circumstances as well, but you can have a


      15        real estate sign regardless.


      16             MR. REDMAN:  Okay.  But what about if a


      17        person wanted to sell the house themself, could


      18        they have a directional sign?  Would they be


      19        able to get a directional sign the same way a


      20        realtor would?  I get a fee -- I pay fee and --


      21             MR. KELLY:  Yes.  Somebody would have the


      22        same ability to obtain a permit to get an


      23        off-site directional sign to their house so long


      24        as it met that -- the same spacing and distance


      25        criteria.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. REDMAN:  Okay.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


       3             All right.  No further questions for


       4        Mr. Kelly about his description?


       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  We'll go on to


       7        our speakers.  The first speaker I have is


       8        Ms. Donna Troup, followed by Curtis Hart,


       9        followed by Bill Brinton.


      10             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Hi, Mr. Troup.  If you


      12        could --


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening, everybody.


      14             My name is Donna Troup.  I'm with One Stop


      15        Thrift Shop at 3644 Post Street in the Murray


      16        Hill area.


      17             I'm opposing a part of this ordinance


      18        because 3 p.m. Friday evening to 3 p.m. Sunday


      19        evening is not going to benefit small business


      20        owners, period, because I did a survey of 500


      21        small business owners, and my survey shows that


      22        half of them is closed, or more, in the city on


      23        Sunday.  So how is the business owners going to


      24        make a living in this town, especially small


      25        business owners?  We are your backbone of the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        city.  We're the ones who keep people employed.


       2        We train people to go to better jobs.  Then what


       3        are you going to do?


       4             Also, the 70 percent going to JTA, my


       5        recommendations at this time is that 25 percent


       6        of the fine monies for renting the building for


       7        meetings on crime prevention in each district in


       8        Duval County once a month to -- to let the


       9        people in the districts know what they can do


      10        about crime in their areas.  That needs to be


      11        enforced more and more, not just having the


      12        weekend directional signs, but have these


      13        fines -- anybody who's got -- like Clear Wire


      14        out there on the corner of the street, that's on


      15        city right-of-way, that's a snipe sign.  Trump


      16        and Stump service, that's a snipe sign.  I see


      17        that sign all over town.  It's an orange sign.


      18        I've called it in.  You think the City is doing


      19        anything about it right now?  I don't think so.


      20        I haven't seen one sign -- one of those come


      21        down yet, not one.


      22             Twenty-five percent of the fine monies --


      23        of the meetings educating the -- the business in


      24        Duval County about violations committed on the


      25        first offense.  Use that money also.  When a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        person goes out to cite somebody on the first


       2        offense, let them sit there and explain -- get


       3        them an ordinance of the signage ordinances and


       4        let -- educate them on that.  Use that money for


       5        that, for making copies of the signage ordinance


       6        and hand that to the business owner.


       7             Fifty percent of the fine monies for hiring


       8        more police officers, fire and rescue


       9        employees.  The City wants to get rid of some of


      10        our police officers.  They also want to get rid


      11        of the fire and rescue people.  Well, they are


      12        needed in the city to keep the crime down, to


      13        help with medical.  We need -- they need more


      14        funds to do that, but now as it stands two of


      15        the fire stations are being closed.  Fire


      16        engines are being shut down.  Where are those


      17        employees going?  Unemployment.  That's


      18        40 people unemployed.


      19             And I'm still asking for answers.  Why are


      20        businesses closing?  Why is the unemployment


      21        rate so high?  Why is the crime rate so high?


      22        It's because the City of Jacksonville does not


      23        want to listen to us small business owners.


      24             Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Troup.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Mr. Brown.


       2             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  Through the Chair --


       3        ma'am, if I could have you come back.


       4             (Ms. Troup approaches the podium.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry, ma'am.


       6             MS. TROUP:  Yes, sir.


       7             MR. BROWN:  And I do appreciate your


       8        comments, we welcome them.  And I do really have


       9        a sincere appreciation for recommendations that,


      10        you know, folks bring forward when they do have


      11        concerns.


      12             Now, you did make recommendations for the


      13        percentages and I was going to ask you about


      14        ShAdCo meetings.  Are you currently attending or


      15        a member of ShAdCo?


      16             MS. TROUP:  I didn't know anything about


      17        that.


      18             MR. BROWN:  Well, I'll talk with you about


      19        that, but that -- that's -- probably is going to


      20        answer part of your concerns in terms of


      21        information in the community about crime, so I


      22        would make sure that we give that information to


      23        you.


      24             But the second thing is -- you talked about


      25        the operations, Friday 3 p.m. to Sunday 3 p.m.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        not being -- it's not going to meet the needs of


       2        the local business folks.  Did you have a


       3        recommendation?  Because I didn't hear you give


       4        a recommendation.


       5             MS. TROUP:  Yeah.  I've already e-mailed


       6        all the City Council members previously.


       7             MR. BROWN:  Can you tell me --


       8             MS. TROUP:  Nine to six -- nine to six --


       9        9 a.m. to 6 p.m., seven days a week, signs that


      10        can be put on the City right-of-way and taken


      11        out -- off at 6 p.m. in the evening.


      12             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  Now, I was dealing


      13        primarily with the Friday 3 p.m. to Sunday --


      14             MS. TROUP:  Okay.  That's what --


      15             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      16             MR. BROWN:  You didn't have any


      17        recommendations --


      18             MS. TROUP:  That's what I'm saying on


      19        that.  The hours need to be changed to seven


      20        days a week.  It needs to be -- like with my


      21        business, I've lost 95 percent of my revenue


      22        because I can't put my signs out.


      23             I talked to another business owner today.


      24        They got fined because they're losing money.


      25        They may -- they're closing down, another thrift




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        store in this town.  They've had to lay five


       2        people off.  Now, what does that tell you?


       3        Signage is important.


       4             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  Thank you, ma'am.


       5             I really -- I was following everything that


       6        you were talking about.  It was just that -- it


       7        seemed to be reasonable -- and I didn't do this


       8        survey or study that you did -- from Friday


       9        3 p.m. to Sunday 3 p.m., it just seemed like we


      10        were meeting the needs.  And if you were going


      11        to tell me that, you know, Friday 3 p.m. until


      12        Sunday at 5:00 or something like that, then --


      13        you know, I thought maybe we can, you know, come


      14        up with a happy medium, but we're actually


      15        changing the whole format.  You know, we're


      16        going from --


      17             MR. KELLY:  (Indicating.)


      18             MR. BROWN:  Go ahead.


      19             MR. KELLY:  There's an amendment that --


      20        the Planning Commission debated this for some


      21        time, and the first condition was an amendment


      22        when there was a business owner with an


      23        occupational license that is encumbered or


      24        hindered by any governmental agency,


      25        improvements, and allowing them to place their




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        signs.


       2             I think what she's talking about is a


       3        situation that would just allow any number of


       4        off-site signs by right any time, 24/7, and


       5        that's something that is -- you know, we're


       6        wholeheartedly against in the department.


       7             When it's limited in scope and there's good


       8        justification for it, that's another situation,


       9        and that's the way we're dealing with it through


      10        this bill.


      11             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Kelly.


      12             Thank you, ma'am.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis, did you still


      14        have something?


      15             MR. DAVIS:  Yeah.  Ms. Troup, I was going


      16        to ask you a question real quick.


      17             MS. TROUP:  Okay.  Who is that?


      18             MR. DAVIS:  Daniel Davis, right here.


      19             MS. TROUP:  I hear voices.  I don't see


      20        them.


      21             MR. DAVIS:  You know, you've made a couple


      22        of comments about us not looking out for small


      23        business, and it really is the only reason we


      24        are writing this legislation, to be honest with


      25        you.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And I think that we -- this substitute has


       2        made a provision that allows small business


       3        owners, for example, that are having a sale at a


       4        thrift shop on Friday to be able to put their


       5        sign out.  And they can have anything they want


       6        to say in a commercial area on that sign saying,


       7        you know, you can get a whole -- whatever it is


       8        for $1.99.  I don't know what your sales might


       9        be, but we're trying to give you those


      10        opportunities.  We're trying to create and


      11        balance, at the same time, the aesthetics that


      12        many citizens want to make sure that we keep our


      13        right-of-ways cleaned up.


      14             So I'm really sorry if this doesn't make


      15        you happy, where you want to be, but we're


      16        really trying to do our best to help small


      17        business in this situation.  And the truth is,


      18        that's the only reason I wrote this legislation,


      19        is to help small businesses who are trying to


      20        put food on the table.


      21             So we can't always have everything exactly


      22        the way we want it, but I just wanted to make


      23        sure -- are you aware that you're going to be


      24        able to place a sign on your piece of property


      25        now that will say that when before you couldn't?




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. TROUP:  Come out to my store, like I've


       2        asked you five times, and you'll see where I


       3        can't --


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay, ma'am.


       5             MS. TROUP:  People cannot see it from


       6        Edgewood Avenue.


       7             MR. DAVIS:  Okay.  Well, I'm trying to help


       8        you out, and I'm sorry that we can't get there.


       9             MS. TROUP:  Well, the thing about it is --


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am --


      11             MS. TROUP:  I know my time is up, but I


      12        want to finish with Mr. Davis --


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  But he didn't ask you


      14        another question, ma'am.


      15             MS. TROUP:  -- to help with small


      16        business --


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones has a question for


      18        you.


      19             MS. TROUP:  Yes.


      20             MR. JONES:  Thank you.


      21             Ms. Troup -- through the Chair to


      22        Ms. Troup, it's my understanding that there's


      23        construction on Post Street --


      24             MS. TROUP:  Correct.


      25             MR. JONES:  So you would be eligible for a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        directional sign while the construction is


       2        ongoing on Post Street.


       3             MS. TROUP:  Without a permit fee?


       4             MR. JONES:  It's my understanding --


       5        through the Chair to Mr. Kelly, would that


       6        require a permit fee, because of the


       7        construction?


       8             MR. KELLY:  There was no reference to


       9        that.  I mean, typically -- like a road widening


      10        or drainage project, improvement project would


      11        require a maintenance of traffic plan.  And


      12        usually as part of those MOT plans the signage


      13        for the businesses are -- are out there in the


      14        right-of-way.  That is not -- that's fairly


      15        common.  It doesn't happen all the time,


      16        unfortunately.


      17             I would -- you know, there's no mention of


      18        any fee and we would not, you know, basically


      19        require any kind of permit fee at this point


      20        unless there's an amendment made.


      21             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Through the Chair to


      22        Mr. Kelly, just to clear this up, if she wanted


      23        to put an additional sign out, could she do that


      24        without a permit or would that require a


      25        permit?




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  On her property, she could do a


       2        commercial speech sign for free as long as it


       3        met the 10-foot setback on a commercial piece of


       4        property.  So she could have one sign on her


       5        property by right, in addition to her permitted


       6        sign for the business, whether that be a


       7        monument sign, a pylon sign.


       8             MR. JONES:  Do you have -- what you're


       9        talking about, Ms. Troup, is a sign on the


      10        right-of-way?


      11             MS. TROUP:  Correct.


      12             MR. JONES:  All right.  Thank you.


      13             MS. TROUP:  That's what I'm --


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      15             Mr. Crescimbeni.


      16             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      17             Through the chair to Ms. Troup, I've got --


      18        I've received your e-mails, but refresh my


      19        memory.  You've had your business for how long?


      20             MS. TROUP:  We have been open now 18


      21        months.


      22             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Eighteen months.


      23             Are you a -- is it a thrift store that's a


      24        for-profit or not-for-profit?  I mean, do you


      25        serve a not-for-profit or --




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. TROUP:  I own the business.


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  You own the business.


       3             MS. TROUP:  I own it.


       4             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And how many signs did


       5        you typically put out?


       6             MS. TROUP:  I put one out Edgewood Avenue


       7        and Post Street area, right in front of the


       8        Kangaroo place, to let people know that the


       9        thrift store is down that way, off of Edgewood,


      10        then I put one on Post Street right at my gate,


      11        then I put one at the other gate from the other


      12        side on Cypress Street to let the neighborhood


      13        know that there's a thrift store in our area.


      14             That's three signs, but I also had an


      15        additional sign on Post Street on -- which was


      16        around the curb, by the end of my fence, by the


      17        Dreamette, to let people know, hey, this is the


      18        way into the -- because we are behind the


      19        Dreamette ice cream building and we are a blind


      20        spot to everybody from Edgewood.


      21             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  So you put four signs


      22        out?


      23             MS. TROUP:  What was that?


      24             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Is that four signs,


      25        then?




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MS. TROUP:  Four signs.


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And how big were the


       3        signs?


       4             MS. TROUP:  Well, I brought one of them in


       5        and I asked y'all what is wrong with my sign.


       6        That's one of them.  And then I had one that


       7        goes like this (indicating), about the same size


       8        that is chained to my fence.


       9             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  So -- and you've had that


      10        the entire time you've operated your business


      11        for the 18 months?


      12             MS. TROUP:  Yes.


      13             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And then when did the


      14        road construction start?


      15             MS. TROUP:  It started about four months


      16        ago on Post Street.  It is now in front of my


      17        Post Street gate right now.  I can't even open


      18        that gate to let the people across the street to


      19        walk across because, hello, how are you doing?


      20        Big old hole down there.  It's very unsafe


      21        there.  This construction company leaves that


      22        area unprotected for small kids in that area


      23        that can fall and hurt themselves very


      24        seriously.  That's another issue I'm going to be


      25        addressing later on.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  Thank you for the


       2        information.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Crescimbeni.


       4             No other questions.  Thank you, ma'am.


       5             MS. TROUP:  Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hart.


       7             (Mr. Hart approaches the podium.)


       8             MR. HART:  Curtis Hart, 8051 Tara Lane.


       9             I just -- I didn't want to say anything


      10        except that I support the bill.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      12             No questions for Mr. Hart.


      13             Mr. Brinton.


      14             (Mr. Brinton approaches the podium.)


      15             MR. BRINTON:  Like Mr. Hart, I also support


      16        the bill, and I'd like to just address a couple


      17        of amendments.


      18             There was some discussion with


      19        Mr. Goldsbury about whose department or division


      20        would deal with the weekend real estate


      21        directional signs, and I believe the -- after


      22        further discussion among division folks, is that


      23        in Section 4, the Development Services Division


      24        be replaced by the Building Inspection


      25        Division.  And it's my understanding -- and the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Office of General Counsel can confirm this --


       2        that that is acceptable to all of the government


       3        individuals involved, and Mr. Rohan can confirm


       4        that.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Rohan.


       6             MR. ROHAN:  That's my understanding.


       7             MR. BRINTON:  Okay.  In connection with the


       8        Planning Commission's recommendation from last


       9        week, I disagree with the -- the -- limiting


      10        monies dealing with keeping bus stops and bus


      11        shelter areas clean.  I don't want to get into a


      12        tit for tat about, unless you do this, we're not


      13        going to provide funds to keep public property


      14        clean, so I think --


      15             I understand why the Planning Commission


      16        did that, because of their position last year,


      17        but I don't think that's an appropriate way


      18        to -- that's not an appropriate amendment for


      19        this bill.  And as an author of the litter bill


      20        from 2004, I can tell you that that bill was


      21        written with the intent to keep the bus stops


      22        and bus shelter areas litter free and


      23        well-maintained, and this provides a mechanism


      24        to do that with fines for litter.  Litter fines


      25        should go to cleaning up litter.  It shouldn't




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        go to anything else, and I think the way it's in


       2        the bill now is exactly the way it should be.


       3             As to the first recommendation of the


       4        Planning Commission, which I think deals with a


       5        subject that council -- my time is almost up --


       6        Councilman Redman and Councilman Crescimbeni and


       7        Mr. Davis and others have inquired about, is


       8        what happens when a business is encumbered


       9        because of government action.  And as Mr. Davis


      10        pointed out -- Councilman Davis, is -- what this


      11        bill is overall doing is providing some


      12        flexibility, such as allowing a business owner


      13        to have an additional sign in connection with


      14        their already-permitted signage to say either


      15        save the whales or a special today on widgets,


      16        but the recommendation of the Planning


      17        Commission, I think, is a good one to provide


      18        additional flexibility where you have a business


      19        that is cut off or otherwise hindered in


      20        connection with the normal flow of traffic.  And


      21        there does need to be flexibility there.  That


      22        should probably go in as a new section,


      23        656.1320, and it would be Section 14 of the


      24        bill, moving Section 14 of the bill now to


      25        Section 15, and the language can be adopted with




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the title --


       2             MR. DAVIS:  Can I ask (inaudible) --


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah.


       4             Mr. Brinton, go ahead and continue and


       5        finish that point.


       6             MR. BRINTON:  Okay.  The title should be


       7        656.1320, directional signs when a business is


       8        hindered by a government agency.  And to clarify


       9        that no fees are involved, at the end of that


      10        paragraph the sentence "No fee shall be


      11        required" should be added, and there should be a


      12        whereas clause added to the legislation that


      13        says, "Whereas, the council finds and determines


      14        that there should be flexibility for directional


      15        signage where a business has been encumbered or


      16        hindered by a government agency."


      17             So with that whereas clause, with that


      18        provision being titled as I've stated, and


      19        moving the section numbers around from -- this


      20        will be a new 14 -- we're moving 14 to 15 -- I


      21        think you're in a good posture to move this bill


      22        along.


      23             And, again, it does provide flexibility to


      24        businesses.  That is not in the current code.


      25        It provides flexibility dealing with election




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        signs, political signs.  It provides flexibility


       2        to have a free expression sign.  It's going to


       3        help clean up Jacksonville's litter problem.


       4             And I think somebody wanted to have further


       5        clarification about the volunteers?


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  I did, but go ahead,


       7        Mr. Davis.  Go ahead and get your question


       8        first, then I'll --


       9             MR. DAVIS:  That was the question.  I was


      10        going to ask if he could clarify the idea that


      11        parallels how we handle the handicapped


      12        violators.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


      14             MR. BRINTON:  This provides an additional


      15        tool for this administration or any


      16        administration to replicate what we're doing


      17        with handicapped parking violations by having


      18        people that are trained and certified to issue


      19        tickets for violations of this portion of the


      20        code.


      21             The fine mechanism here is not the


      22        sledgehammer or heavy hand that I've heard


      23        repeated complaints about, but it's a very


      24        modest fine starting out at $50 rather than -- I


      25        think people have been getting fined at 350 and




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        then multiple fines on the same day for the same


       2        location.


       3             So we're providing a modest fine structure


       4        that can be enforced today by code enforcement


       5        officers with a lot less of a heavy hand.  We


       6        provide an opportunity to have training and


       7        certification for -- I know Councilman Joost is


       8        certified to issue tickets for handicapped


       9        parking.  Maybe Mr. Davis and Mr. Crescimbeni or


      10        others could be certified to deal with this


      11        problem where you have signs nailed up to a


      12        telephone pole 12 feet high.


      13             MR. DAVIS:  As long as I get a badge, I


      14        will do that.


      15             MR. BRINTON:  We won't let you carry a gun,


      16        I'm sure.  You probably already do.


      17             So that -- I hope that's a sufficient


      18        explanation.


      19             This program is a little bit different than


      20        St. Pete, but it's awfully similar.  And what


      21        I've tried to do is model this program after


      22        St. Pete, but do something that is unique to


      23        Jacksonville, that has been shown to work.


      24             And I think, overall, with providing


      25        flexibility for businesses; dealing with some




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        legal issues that are being addressed in this


       2        ordinance, specifically allowing election signs,


       3        for example; and then fine-tuning the litter --


       4        zero tolerance for litter code, we're in a


       5        position to make a big difference in this city.


       6             And I hope everyone will join as a


       7        cosponsor of this bill.  I know Mr. Hart and I


       8        would both like that.  It's been a pleasure


       9        working with the development community in trying


      10        to put together -- craft a good bill.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any other questions for


      12        Mr. Brinton?


      13             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  If not, we'll close the


      15        public hearing.


      16             Did you have one, Mr. Jones?


      17             MR. JONES:  With the -- through the Chair


      18        to Mr. Brinton, I appreciate your knowledge and


      19        your expertise.


      20             Now we can get a permit to put our election


      21        signs on the right-of-way?


      22             MR. BRINTON:  No.  No permit, no fee.


      23             And let me make sure you understand.  There


      24        is no -- in the code as is written today -- and


      25        I think Mr. Gabriel can confirm this -- if you




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        pay $100, whether you're a private homeowner on


       2        a for sale sign or you're a business, that $100


       3        for one year stays with that usage of the sign


       4        wherever it goes.  It's not for a specific


       5        location.  It is just that sign has to meet the


       6        criteria of the one-mile spacing and the other


       7        criteria if it's used out in the locations where


       8        it's -- where it can be used under this code


       9        provision.


      10             Also, the code cannot and does not trump


      11        state law because state law has very specific


      12        provisions dealing with the state highway


      13        system.  So that -- snipe signs, litter cannot


      14        be in the state highway right-of-way no matter


      15        what.


      16             Thanks.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Anybody have any other


      18        questions for Mr. Brinton?


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      21             We'll close the public hearing.


      22             And do we have any discussion?  Well, we'll


      23        go ahead -- we need to go ahead and move the


      24        amendment, I assume.


      25             DR. GAFFNEY:  Move the amendment.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. BROWN:  Second.


       2             MR. DAVIS:  (Inaudible.)


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have the amendment


       4        that was described by Mr. Kelly.  I don't think


       5        we have moved anything from the recommendations


       6        of the Planning Commission.


       7             MR. KELLY:  I can read them in for the


       8        record --


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead and read --


      10             MR. KELLY:  -- as proposed.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- read what we've got and


      12        then there might be others added.


      13             MR. KELLY:  Condition 1 from the Planning


      14        Commission stated, "Any business owner with an


      15        occupational license that has a business that


      16        has been encumbered or hindered by a


      17        governmental agency, including the JEA, JTA work


      18        or improvements, shall be allowed to place up to


      19        two signs directing people to their place of


      20        business.  Such signs shall be allowed seven


      21        days a week, 24 hours a day during the time of


      22        construction or work in such improvement and


      23        removed within ten days of completion of such


      24        improvements and shall be subject to the


      25        physical signage parameters of the temporary




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        real estate directional signs provision.


       2             "No distance limitations regarding


       3        placement from business" -- "no distance


       4        limitations regarding the placement from


       5        business or with regard to other signs shall


       6        apply to such signs."


       7             The second condition stated that,


       8        "Section 111.786, the litter trust fund, is


       9        amended so that the funds" -- "70 percent of


      10        those funds derived from the collection of fines


      11        are to be redirect- -- or to be directed to the


      12        City of Jacksonville's general fund for use by


      13        the City, not the JTA, and that such funds may


      14        be authorized to be directed to the JTA once the


      15        JTA has removed all advertisements from its


      16        transit shelters located on the public


      17        rights-of-ways and the allowance for advertising


      18        on such transit shelters located on the public


      19        rights-of-ways has ceased.  In such event, the


      20        JTA may use such funds for the sole purpose of


      21        keeping public bus stops and bus shelters


      22        well-maintained, litter free, and for the


      23        construction of new bus shelters."


      24             (Mr. Brown exits the proceedings.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis, I have you on the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        queue first.


       2             MR. DAVIS:  I'll yield to the past


       3        president.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.


       5             MR. JONES:  Thank you.


       6             The 70 percent going to the JTA if they


       7        ever decide not to have signage, what happens to


       8        the balance of that, the 30 percent, what


       9        happens to that?


      10             MR. KELLY:  That's already proposed in the


      11        bill of the -- the monies that are collected.


      12        Seventy percent would specifically go for the


      13        maintenance of bus shelters.  The additional


      14        30 percent would go towards public awareness,


      15        enforcement, hiring employees basically to -- to


      16        enforce and have public awareness projects for


      17        them.


      18             MR. JONES:  Okay.  I would rather see the


      19        70 percent go to maintain the right-of-way to a


      20        designated fund and not necessarily the general


      21        fund.  I don't think -- with this bill


      22        sunsetting in 2011, I don't think it gives us a


      23        permanent source of funding to maintain our


      24        shelters anyway, so . . .


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly, can I confirm




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        something?  The language you were just reading


       2        was, I believe, the language from the Planning


       3        Commission, right?


       4             MR. KELLY:  Yes.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Which I think we may


       6        have some --


       7             (Simultaneous speaking.)


       8             MR. KELLY:  Correct.  I mean -- but the


       9        70 percent threshold was proposed in this


      10        substitute version to go towards the maintenance


      11        of bus shelters.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Now Mr. Davis.


      13             MR. DAVIS:  Two things.  One, I'm not going


      14        to support number 2.  What I would like to do is


      15        move the amendment and let legal use the


      16        language that Mr. Brinton read into the record


      17        as far as the whereas clause leading into what


      18        section we place this language.  I'd like to


      19        move that amendment first.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Let's go ahead and pass what


      21        we've got and then we can amend it.


      22             Mr. Reingold, do you think that would be


      23        the appropriate way or do you want to amend this


      24        amendment?


      25             MR. DAVIS:  We don't even have an




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendment.  I would not -- do you have a second


       2        on this amendment?


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Didn't we get a motion and a


       4        second on it?  Yes.


       5             MR. DAVIS:  I would not --


       6             MR. JONES:  (Inaudible.)


       7             MR. DAVIS:  Yeah, I would offer this


       8        amendment to that.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  To eliminate number 2 --


      10             MR. DAVIS:  And add the language that was


      11        read into the record, let legal work on that


      12        between now and Tuesday night as far as the


      13        exact language that the whereas clause will give


      14        us proper standing.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.


      16             MR. DAVIS:  So that would be my amendment


      17        to the current amendment that was on the floor.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  So we have a


      19        motion and --


      20             MR. JONES:  Second.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- a second on a -- the


      22        Davis amendment to the amendment.


      23             Mr. Reingold, do you have question about


      24        that before we vote?


      25             MR. REINGOLD:  (Shakes head.)




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Anybody else have a


       2        question on what that -- on what Mr. Davis was


       3        saying?


       4             MR. ROHAN:  (Indicating.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Rohan.


       6             MR. ROHAN:  The substitute is already


       7        adopted.  It was passed at the council and sent


       8        back to you.  So I understand the only amendment


       9        now on the floor is Mr. Davis' amendment, and so


      10        it's just an amendment to the substitute, for --


      11        for clarity.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I'm sorry.  So all


      13        the language you were talking about was -- was


      14        the sub.


      15             MR. REINGOLD:  No.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  What do we have --


      17             MR. DAVIS:  I think we're in a proper


      18        posture (off microphone) --


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      20             All right.  All in favor of the Davis


      21        amendment signify by saying aye.


      22             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.


      24             MR. JONES:  Move the bill as substituted


      25        and once amended.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


       2             MR. DAVIS:  I had one other thing.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, Mr. Davis.


       4             MR. DAVIS:  Mr. Chairman, I apologize, and


       5        I hope that I'm not messing up your process.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  No.  We just want to make


       7        sure we get it all right so we don't have to


       8        come back later.


       9             MR. DAVIS:  Okay.  The only other thought I


      10        have is to make sure that the balance of the


      11        funds that are collected off the fines and the


      12        permit fees go into some type of trust fund to


      13        help either code enforcement or whoever is going


      14        to go out to -- similar to this litter trust


      15        fund that's going to help clean up the


      16        right-of-way.


      17             So I don't know if that's even


      18        appropriate.  I'd ask legal if there's already a


      19        vehicle that we could do that or if we should


      20        create a vehicle tonight to say, hey, this is


      21        where we want the money to go and it would be


      22        used solely for the purpose of enforcement.


      23             So I think that would help clean up some


      24        thoughts.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, Mr. Reingold, could




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        you confirm for everybody the -- where the


       2        70 percent and the 30 percent is going as it


       3        stands right now?  And then I --


       4             MR. REINGOLD:  To the Chair, you've got


       5        70 percent of the fine monies shall essentially


       6        go to JTA for the sole purpose of keeping bus


       7        shelt- -- public bus stops and public bus


       8        shelters well-maintained and litter free, then


       9        you've got 30 percent of the fine monies, plus


      10        any funds transferred --


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold, you keep


      12        saying the "fine money."  Do you mean the fees,


      13        fines and fees?


      14             MR. REINGOLD:  I see in here -- it just --


      15        it says "fine monies" in -- under the litter


      16        trust fund.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Well, we need to clarify


      18        that so we all know what we're talking about


      19        here.


      20             Mr. Rohan.


      21             MR. ROHAN:  In order for the law to be


      22        legal, the funds -- it's not a tax.  It's funds


      23        that go toward the enforcement of the


      24        directional signs and the -- in order to pay for


      25        the cost of issuing the permits and the cost of




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        enforcement.  So I think it's best left un- --


       2        anything further is -- would not help you with


       3        regard to articulating where the fee money went


       4        because the fee money generally goes to the


       5        general fund, but it's got to be a -- no more


       6        money than it costs for the enforcement and the


       7        implementation of the ordinance.  So I don't


       8        think you'd want that fee money to go to --


       9        necessarily to litter at this time.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So is everybody clear


      11        that the fee monies will be going to the general


      12        fund and fine monies --


      13             MR. DAVIS:  The only -- I'm sorry,


      14        Mr. Chairman, but the only thought is we're


      15        defining -- as far as I remember -- I don't


      16        have -- I've got it open on the screen, but


      17        we're defining snipe signs as litter, are we


      18        not, in this bill?


      19             MR. ROHAN:  That's correct.


      20             MR. DAVIS:  So there is a rationale nexus


      21        between -- I just want to make sure that this


      22        money -- that we can truthfully tell people when


      23        they're pulling permits to put signs in our


      24        right-of-way that there's a legitimate reason


      25        why they need to pull a permit, so we can get




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        all the people that aren't pulling permits off


       2        the street.  So that's the goal.


       3             I think that if we -- if we designate it in


       4        this litter trust fund to pick up,


       5        quote-unquote, litter, which would be the snipe


       6        signs, or enforce the current sign code, then


       7        I'm fine with that.  I just want to make sure it


       8        doesn't get lost somewhere.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So is that in need of


      10        an amendment to the language to say that fees


      11        for signage will go to a litter trust fund


      12        designated for litter removal or designated for


      13        sign removal?  Mr. Davis, is that what you're


      14        wanting?


      15             MR. DAVIS:  Through the Chair, I'm not in


      16        the bowels of government on a daily basis.


      17        Okay?  So I'm on this level (indicating).  I


      18        don't know where it would be in here as far as


      19        how you accomplish the goal that we're stating


      20        we want to accomplish.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly, do you want to


      22        help us out here and clarify it so --


      23             MR. KELLY:  I guess -- my understanding is


      24        that the permit fees collected would also go to


      25        the same sub fund for the fines issued for the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        snipe sign fees, that it will all go to the same


       2        sub fund to be solely used for the enforcement


       3        of the zero tolerance litter program and the


       4        programs associated with that.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Does that satisfy


       6        you, Mr. Davis, that it would go to a litter


       7        trust fund for all litter pickup?


       8             MR. DAVIS:  To be honest with you -- and


       9        Mr. Crescimbeni might be able to help -- I don't


      10        know.  I stated my intention, and that is we


      11        want 70 percent of the fines going to clean up


      12        bus shelters.  The balance of that should go to


      13        enforcing snipe signs is what our -- I think our


      14        goal is.  I don't know what needs to be written


      15        to make sure that happens, if that makes any


      16        sense, but that's the goal.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Rohan, help us out


      18        here.  You --


      19             MR. ROHAN:  Through the Chair, if you


      20        identify your intentions, then we'll get the


      21        actual terminology down, if that's -- because I


      22        know -- in order to get the funds to the people


      23        who do the enforcement, they have a special


      24        code, so we'd have to make sure the language


      25        allows the money to be disbursed into that




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        account and budgeted into that account, but


       2        we'll get that language down.  If that's what


       3        your intention is, if you'll vote on that


       4        intention, we'll get it squared away as to what


       5        the precise language is.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Crescimbeni, did


       7        you have a -- something to add?


       8             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Mr. Chairman, I just saw


       9        Mr. Killingsworth and Mr. Brinton all looking


      10        like they wanted to comment on this.  Maybe we


      11        could hear from them, if they have any input on


      12        Mr. Davis' suggestion.


      13             Maybe not.  Maybe they don't want to


      14        comment on it.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Not yet, Mr. Brinton.


      16             We're not going to take from the crowd


      17        right now because I've got people raising their


      18        hands.


      19             Mr. Reingold or Mr. Gabriel, do you feel


      20        like we're in need of an amendment or can this


      21        language be cleared up this week and go with


      22        Mr. Davis' amendment?  Are we fine or do we need


      23        another amendment to clarify this -- these


      24        dollar amounts?


      25             MR. REINGOLD:  Well, I -- the council




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        member's intention would be a separate amendment


       2        to this bill.  And we can certainly just all


       3        incorporate into one amendment, which would be


       4        the council member's intent for the use of the


       5        fees, not the fines but the fees issue, to --


       6        combined with the previous amendment that was


       7        already adopted, which was the -- which was


       8        the -- dealing with one of the two Planning


       9        Commission amendments, plus with Mr. Brinton's


      10        language.  So that would all be wrapped up as


      11        one amendment that we can include as part of


      12        this -- what comes out of LUZ.


      13             If the -- any members of LUZ or the City


      14        Council want to adjust it between now and next


      15        Tuesday, that could certainly be dealt with in a


      16        floor amendment.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  But as of right now, you're


      18        okay with the language that we've got?  No


      19        further amendments need to be given to


      20        straighten out this situation?


      21             MR. KELLY:  Right now it's broken up


      22        70/30, my understanding, for the fines; that the


      23        permit fee would then solely go to the


      24        30 percent of the sub fund account.  So the $100


      25        per sign fee would go towards the enforcement




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and the programs and the training, not


       2        necessarily the bus shelters.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.  Permit fees go


       4        into --


       5             MR. DAVIS:  Right.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So I think we're all


       7        squared away.


       8             Do we have any further amendments that want


       9        to be proposed?


      10             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any other speakers?


      12             MR. REINGOLD:  (Indicating.)


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.


      14             MR. REINGOLD:  Just one small clarification


      15        that might be of assistance.


      16             Following up with what Mr. Kelly said,


      17        essentially the fees would go to the 30 percent


      18        portion, which is the littering.  However, we


      19        might want to say that it goes to the permitting


      20        of -- and also to the -- to, then, the


      21        enforcement aspect addressed in here.


      22             I just want to make sure it's clear that


      23        the money is also being used for, you know,


      24        issuing the permits, reviewing the permit


      25        applications, and the like.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


       2             All right.  So we've got all that on the


       3        record.  I think we're good to go.


       4             Mr. Jones.


       5             MR. JONES:  I guess -- I just want to make


       6        sure we're clear on one thing.  The enforcement,


       7        who -- what agency, what department will perform


       8        the enforcement?  Because some of them don't


       9        work on weekends, and you know that a lot of our


      10        violators realize that and try to take advantage


      11        of it.


      12             MR. KELLY:  The enforcement would be up to


      13        the Municipal Code Compliance Division.


      14             MR. JONES:  Okay.  That's the one that's


      15        doing the enforcement today?


      16             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      17             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Thank you.


      18             MR. DAVIS:  Plus the certified volunteers.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right, which is something I


      20        wanted to ask.  Is there anybody here that has a


      21        vision as to what department is going to run


      22        that program or train the people?  I would


      23        assume that would go through code enforcement as


      24        well.


      25             Planning, legal, any ideas?  Just out of




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        curiosity.


       2             MR. ROHAN:  Which division is doing the


       3        permitting?


       4             MR. KELLY:  Development Services.


       5             MR. ROHAN:  Development Services?


       6             MR. DAVIS:  No.  We just made that change.


       7             MR. ROHAN:  Yeah, I wanted to clarify what


       8        that change was.  The -- that's part of the


       9        amendment.


      10             MR. KELLY:  The amendment was to change


      11        from -- for the permit issuance, from


      12        Development Services to Building Inspection.


      13             The -- I mean, the issue with that is that


      14        typically the Development Services Division will


      15        issue any permits in the public right-of-way.


      16        They're the responsible division for issuing


      17        permits in the right-of-way.  Building


      18        Inspection typically issues sign permits,


      19        structural permits, so . . .


      20             MR. ROHAN:  Well, I would ask for an


      21        opinion from the director of Planning as to


      22        which would be the appropriate training


      23        mechanism.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      25             MR. ROHAN:  I'm sure he can articulate that




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        real quickly.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  I think we can probably


       3        figure it out this -- in this coming week.


       4             MR. ROHAN:  Yes, we can do that too.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


       6             Okay.  Any other speakers?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have passed our


       9        amendments.  We're in order to move the bill as


      10        amended.  I need a motion.


      11             MR. DAVIS:  Move the bill as amended.


      12             DR. GAFFNEY:  Second.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Motion and


      14        second on the bill as amended.


      15             Please open the ballot.


      16             (Committee ballot opened.)


      17             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      20             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      22             (Committee ballot closed.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      24        vote.


      25             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       2        approved 2010-253.


       3             I want to thank all the people who had a


       4        part in putting this together, Mr. Hart,


       5        Mr. Brinton particularly, for taking time out of


       6        their schedule to work with us.


       7             I think we've got something here that's


       8        going to do a lot of good to get rid of those


       9        signs that are annoying all of us.  First


      10        objective is to get rid of the fire union signs


      11        that are littering up our right-of-ways.


      12             All right.  Item number 4, 2010-261.  We


      13        will open the public hearing.


      14             Seeing no speakers, we will continue that


      15        public hearing to July 20th, take no further


      16        action.


      17             Item number 5, 2010-262.  We'll open the


      18        public hearing.


      19             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue it to


      20        July 20th.


      21             Item 6, 2010-263.  Open the public


      22        hearing.


      23             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue that


      24        to --


      25             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, sir.


       2             MR. CROFTS:  I've had some last-minute


       3        discussion with the applicant on -263.  I'd just


       4        like to change it from a date certain, August


       5        3rd, to just open and continue for the time


       6        being, if you would, please.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We will open and


       8        continue that public hearing, take no further


       9        action.


      10             MR. CROFTS:  And then number 7, that's a


      11        companion -- excuse me -- companion rezoning,


      12        and we'll just leave that blank until we come up


      13        with the appropriate date for the future public


      14        hearing.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  We will just defer that.


      16             Thank you.


      17             Item number 8, 2010-311.  We'll open the


      18        public hearing.


      19             Mr. Register.


      20             But before Mr. Register speaks, could we


      21        have Planning go over the amendments so that we


      22        make sure that he's okay with it?  He's on a bum


      23        leg.  He can't stand up for hours.


      24             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


      25             To the Chair, the Planning Commission




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        recommended approval on May 27th subject to the


       2        following four conditions, and I believe there's


       3        an amendment to one of the conditions or to a --


       4        or to add a fifth condition that Dylan will read


       5        into the record.


       6             Condition 1, "The development shall be


       7        subject to the original legal description dated


       8        April 22nd, 2010."


       9             Condition 2, "The development shall be


      10        subject to the revised written description dated


      11        May 7th, 2010."


      12             Condition 3, "The development shall be


      13        subject to the revised site plan dated April


      14        22nd, 2010."


      15             Condition 4, "The development shall be


      16        subject to the review and approval of the


      17        Development Services Division subject to the


      18        memorandum dated April 20th, 2010, or as


      19        otherwise approved by the Planning and


      20        Development Department."


      21             And then there's a new fifth condition that


      22        I believe the applicant is aware of with regards


      23        to the location -- temporary location of the


      24        playground for the day care and the parking lot,


      25        and Dylan can go ahead and read that.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.


       2             MR. REINGOLD:  Through the Chair, the last


       3        condition would be that, "Play areas for day


       4        cares located within the parking lot shall be


       5        surrounded by concrete barriers, a minimum of


       6        3 feet in height, and shall be removed within


       7        two years of the issuance of a certificate of


       8        use."


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Register, do you


      10        want come up or are you just wanting questions


      11        only?


      12             MR. REGISTER:  Questions only.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  You're okay with all


      14        those conditions?


      15             MR. REGISTER:  I'm fine with it, yes.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  Thank you, sir.


      17             Anybody have any questions of


      18        Mr. Register?


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  If not, we will close the


      21        public hearing.


      22             MR. JONES:  Move the amendment.


      23             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


      25        amendment.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             All in favor of the amendment, please


       2        signify by saying aye.


       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.


       5             MR. JONES:  Move the bill as amended.


       6             MR. DAVIS:  Second.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


       8        bill as amended.


       9             Please open the ballot.


      10             (Committee ballot opened.)


      11             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      14             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      15             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      16             (Committee ballot closed.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      18        vote.


      19             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      21        approved 2010-311.


      22             Thank you all for working with me,


      23        Mr. Register in particular.


      24             MR. REGISTER:  Thank you much.  I do


      25        appreciate it.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Number 9,


       2        2010-312.  Open the public hearing.


       3             No speakers.  We'll continue to June 15th.


       4             Number 10, 2010-313.  We'll open the public


       5        hearing.


       6             Seeing no speakers, we'll continue this to


       7        June 15th.


       8             Number 11, 2010-314.  Open the public


       9        hearing.


      10             Is this the one that we said that we were


      11        going to defer?


      12             MR. KELLY:  No.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yeah, that's -316.  All


      14        right.


      15             MR. KELLY:  This is a waiver of road


      16        frontage --


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  This is a waiver.  We have


      18        no speakers, so I will close the public hearing,


      19        and I need a -- someone to move an amendment to


      20        grant or amendment -- amendment to deny.


      21             We do have a speaker?


      22             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.  2010-316.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  -314.  This is -314, sir.


      24             On Greenland Road?


      25             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  No, no.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So you've got the


       2        next one.


       3             Hopefully we have a card from him on that


       4        one.


       5             MS. STEPHENS:  Yes.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


       7             All right.  Any speakers on this -- or


       8        somebody want to propose an amendment to grant


       9        or deny?


      10             MR. JONES:  What is the recommendation?


      11             MR. KELLY:  Through the Chair, this is a


      12        request for a waiver of road frontage at


      13        5540 Greenland Road.  The request seeks a


      14        reduction from 80 feet to 75 feet.  The


      15        department is recommending approval, no


      16        conditions.


      17             MR. JONES:  Move the amendment to grant the


      18        waiver.


      19             DR. GAFFNEY:  Second.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have an amendment to


      21        grant the waiver.


      22             All in favor of the amendment signify by


      23        saying aye.


      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Move to grant --


       2             MR. JONES:  Move the bill as amended, the


       3        waiver.


       4             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a motion to


       6        grant.


       7             Please open the ballot.


       8             (Committee ballot opened.)


       9             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      11             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      13             (Committee ballot closed.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      15        vote.


      16             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nay.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      18        granted the waiver.


      19             All right.  2010-315.  We'll open the


      20        public hearing.


      21             Seeing no speakers, we will continue to


      22        June 15th.


      23             2010-316.  This is the one you are here


      24        for, sir.


      25             We'll open the public hearing.  And, for




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the record, we are not going to be taking action


       2        on this tonight.  We're opening and continuing


       3        the public hearing, but --


       4             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  You are Mr. Thomas


       6        Campbell?


       7             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  Go ahead, sir.


       9             MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, we are requesting a


      10        variance, sign variance on this.  The existing


      11        sign, which has been up there many years, is --


      12        has a 7 foot, 6 inch setback as it is.  We are


      13        replacing an old sign with a new sign.  It's --


      14        apartment project wants to dress up their


      15        place.  The new sign is one inch longer than the


      16        old one.


      17             Now, it's a different situation there


      18        because I know a lot of times you drive out and


      19        right away you're forced to look at the traffic


      20        that's coming by.  In this particular place,


      21        after you pass the front of that sign, toward


      22        the road, it is 14 foot, 6 inches to where you


      23        will stop to get your vision in each direction.


      24             I've ridden in and out of there quite a


      25        number of times just checking it out to make




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sure that -- I don't want to do anything that's


       2        dangerous to the public, and that's what we are


       3        requesting.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


       5             Anybody have any questions for


       6        Mr. Campbell?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, I believe -- I


       9        know on the staff report, the planner that went


      10        and visited the location indicated that the


      11        signs were not posted, so we were in a posture


      12        of opening and continuing this hearing.


      13             I think the applicant had brought forth


      14        some pictures, providing evidence that the signs


      15        were posted and that the staff planner just did


      16        not -- was not able to see them at that time,


      17        but they were posted.  I think there's some


      18        photographs here that they are going to


      19        introduce.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.  Okay.


      21             Did you understand what he was saying?


      22        We --


      23             MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  We're continuing it for


      25        another cycle because the signs that may or may




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        not have been put up to notice the public that


       2        this proceeding was going on, they were not able


       3        to be seen by our inspectors.  So that's why


       4        we're not going to take action tonight.  We're


       5        going to take action in two weeks.


       6             But it's the opinion of the Planning


       7        Department -- we had somebody go out and look


       8        for them and didn't see them; is that right?


       9             MR. CROFTS:  That's correct.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, I'm going to


      11        stick with what we ruled earlier this year and


      12        we're going to -- we're going to take a pause


      13        for one cycle.


      14             We have one more speaker that wants to


      15        speak, Ms. Diana Otwell.


      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.


      17             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I did go out yesterday


      19        because Aaron Glick had called me from the


      20        Planning Department saying the signs were not


      21        up, and did I put them out there.  And two of


      22        the four -- I drove by again yesterday -- are


      23        up.


      24             And I told Aaron, I said, I don't know


      25        how -- whoever went out there didn't see them




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        because they are in plain sight.  One was right


       2        in front of a tree and the one off of Old Kings


       3        Road was right on the side of the road.


       4             And I did have a -- I mean, they gave me


       5        the survey as where exactly to put them and I


       6        put them out there, so . . .


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that all you have?


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  I think we're in


      12        position to -- we'll move it forward next


      13        meeting, two weeks from now.


      14             All right.  If there are no questions for


      15        either of the speakers, then we will continue


      16        that public hearing and take action next


      17        meeting.  I don't know what the date on that


      18        is.  Let's see.  June 15th.


      19             Item number 14 and 15 are both deferred, as


      20        well as all of page 7.


      21             Item number 20 on page 8 is deferred.


      22             We are down to item 21, council members,


      23        2010-348.


      24             MR. JONES:  Move the bill.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  We will open the public




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        hearing, and we have Ms. Johnston.


       2             Come on down.


       3             (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)


       4             MS. JOHNSTON:  Hello.


       5             Paige Johnston, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard,


       6        on behalf of the applicant.


       7             This is a notice of proposed change


       8        regarding the northeast quadrant of the Deerwood


       9        Park development of regional impact.  It's a


      10        minor change to increase the maximum residential


      11        ceiling of the DRI.


      12             And we have a letter of recommendation


      13        coming from the Northeast Florida Regional


      14        Planning Council, and the staff has recommended


      15        approval, and we would request your support as


      16        well.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


      18             We do have the Planning Department


      19        recommendation of approval.


      20             Anything y'all want to stay?


      21             MR. CROFTS:  No.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  We'll close the


      23        public hearing.


      24             I need a motion to move the bill.


      25             MR. JONES:  Move the bill.



            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on -348.


       3             Please open the ballot.


       4             (Committee ballot opened.)


       5             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       7             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       9             (Committee ballot closed.)


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      11        vote.


      12             MS. LAHMEUR:  Four yeas, zero nay.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      14        approved -348.


      15             Thank you, Ms. Johnston.


      16             All right.  Items 22 and 23 are read second


      17        and rerefer, as well as all of page 9, all of


      18        page 10, all of page 11.


      19             Items 36 and 37 are read second and


      20        rerefer.


      21             Item 38, we need to move an amendment


      22        before we read it.


      23             MR. JONES:  Move the amendment to 2010-386.


      24             DR. GAFFNEY:  Second.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        amendment.


       2             All in favor of the amendment -- should we


       3        read the amendment?


       4             MR. REINGOLD:  The amendment essentially


       5        changes the acreage and the exhibits, the map


       6        and the legal description.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead and tell us on


       8        -387, what it does.


       9             MR. REINGOLD:  The amendment does the same


      10        thing.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.


      12             Okay.  We have a motion and second on the


      13        amendment on -386.


      14             All in favor of the amendment signify by


      15        saying aye.


      16             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.


      18             We will now rerefer that back.


      19             Item 39.  I need a --


      20             MR. JONES:  Move the amendment.


      21             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      23        on the amendment.  Please -- I'm sorry.


      24             All in favor of the amendment signify by


      25        saying aye.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So we moved those


       3        amendments --


       4             MS. LAHMEUR:  (Inaudible.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Oh, those have to be on a


       6        ballot.  Okay.  I'm sorry.


       7             All right.  So we'll have to go back to


       8        38.  We have a motion and second on the


       9        amendment on 2010-386.


      10             Please open the ballot.


      11             (Committee ballot opened.)


      12             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      14             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      16             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      17             (Committee ballot closed.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      19        vote.


      20             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      22        approved the amendment on -386.


      23             Now we will rerefer it back to the


      24        committee.


      25             MR. JONES:  Move 2010-387, the amendment.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. REDMAN:  Second.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


       3        amendment on -387.


       4             Please open the ballot.


       5             (Committee ballot opened.)


       6             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


       9             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      11             (Committee ballot closed.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      13        vote.


      14             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      16        approved the amendment on -387, and we will


      17        rerefer it back to committee.


      18             Okay.  All of page 313 [sic] is a straight


      19        read second, as well as all of page 14, 15, and


      20        16.


      21             Unless I've missed something, which I've


      22        been known to, we're good to go.


      23             Have a good night.


      24             (The above proceedings were adjourned at


      25        6:13 p.m.)




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                         -  -  -




















































            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E




       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:


       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :




       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was


       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the


       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a


       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.


      10             Dated this 6th day of June, 2010.








      14                                 Diane M. Tropia


























            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203