1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, May 4, 2010,


       7   commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers,


       8   1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before Diane M.


       9   Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State of


      10   Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        RAY HOLT, Chair.

                WARREN JONES, Vice Chair.

      14        REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.

                DANIEL DAVIS, Committee Member.

      15        JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.

                STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.

      16        DON REDMAN, Committee Member.



           ALSO PRESENT:


                BILL BISHOP, City Council Member.

      19        JOHN CRESCIMBENI, City Council Member.

                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      20        SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

      21        JASON GABRIEL Office of General Counsel.

                DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

      22        RICK CAMPBELL, Research Assistant.

                MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

      23        JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.


      24                         -  -  -







           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   May 4, 2010                             5:05 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, everybody.


       5             We've got enough here to hold the LUZ


       6        meeting now.


       7             Well, folks, we've got a short agenda


       8        tonight.  We've got one issue that I think is


       9        going to take up quite a bit of time.  So what


      10        I'd like to do is quickly go through the others,


      11        I think, three items that I imagine are not


      12        going to take any time at all and get those off


      13        of our agenda and anybody that's here for those


      14        on their way, and then we'll go back to -212.


      15        It should only take us about five minutes to go


      16        through those other items, though.


      17             Council members, starting on page 2, items


      18        1 and 2 are deferred.


      19             Item 3, I believe we're on for a


      20        withdrawal; is that right?


      21             MR. JOOST:  Move to withdraw.


      22             MR. DAVIS:  Second.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second to


      24        withdraw for 2010-202.


      25             Mr. Jones.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.


       2             This is the third withdrawal.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.


       4             MR. HARDEN:  I surrender.


       5             MR. JONES:  What's the status, Mr. Harden?


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Harden, come on up and


       7        explain to us.


       8             MR. HARDEN:  Yes.


       9             (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)


      10             MR. JONES:  We've withdrawn it twice.


      11             MR. HARDEN:  No.  What happened was there


      12        was another issue that came -- the issue that


      13        was pending on this appeal was resolved between


      14        the staff of the Planning Department and the


      15        developer.  There was another issue that came up


      16        that was the subject of a separate Historic


      17        Preservation meeting last Wednesday.  It was


      18        resolved.  We were holding the appeal in LUZ to


      19        determine whether or not the committee should


      20        hear that issue.  It was resolved last week at


      21        the Historic Preservation Commission.


      22             MR. JONES:  So all the issues pertaining to


      23        the John Gorrie --


      24             MR. HARDEN:  I think that may be an


      25        overstatement, but all the ones that we know




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        about right now.


       2             MR. JONES:  Are we going to have a request


       3        to send it back to committee next Tuesday?


       4             MR. HARDEN:  No.  All the issues that are


       5        raised in that appeal are resolved.  I'll say it


       6        that way.


       7             MR. JONES:  All right.  Thank you, sir.


       8             MR. HARDEN:  If you'll tell the nice people


       9        at the Planning Department to cooperate, we


      10        won't have any more problems.


      11             MR. JONES:  All right.  Thank you.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  So they'd have to refile.


      13             MR. JONES:  Okay.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.


      15             We have a motion and a second on a


      16        withdrawal.


      17             Please open the ballot.


      18             (Committee ballot opened.)


      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      22             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        vote.


       2             (Committee ballot closed.)


       3             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       5        withdrawn 2010-202.


       6             Let's skip over -212 for a moment and get


       7        rid of these other items.


       8             2010-213, we will open the public hearing.


       9             Seeing no speakers, we will close the


      10        public hearing.


      11             Anybody need to declare an ex-parte on this


      12        one?


      13             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


      14             MR. JONES:  Second.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      16        bill.


      17             Please open the ballot.


      18             (Committee ballot opened.)


      19             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      22             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        vote.


       2             (Committee ballot closed.)


       3             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nays.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       5        approved 2010-213.


       6             2010-253.  Mr. Davis.


       7             MR. DAVIS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       8             This is the weekend small directional


       9        signage for business.  I had a very productive


      10        meeting today with a couple of community


      11        leaders.


      12             (Mr. Brown enters the proceedings.)


      13             MR. DAVIS:  What I would like to do is, in


      14        a substitute, incorporate every one of the


      15        Planning Department's recommendations,


      16        incorporate some other language that would help


      17        fight against snipe signs and help define what


      18        snipe signs are, and also have this legislation


      19        that's currently on the books in place.


      20             If you want to, Mr. Chairman, since your


      21        name is on this bill as well, maybe I could have


      22        a noticed meeting with you just so you can see


      23        what we're doing.  I think you'd be pleased with


      24        it and I think it will bring not just -- I think


      25        you could bring more people into the camp of




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        wanting to see this bill passed and be very


       2        supportive.


       3             It could be a very good deal, more


       4        encompassing, and I think that it's worth


       5        stepping back and adding those things to this


       6        bill --


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


       8             MR. DAVIS:  -- to get a much better bill.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I've gotten the


      10        information from the Department and they had


      11        some very good recommendations.  But for now,


      12        we'll defer this bill and then we'll probably


      13        come back with a substitute.


      14             MR. DAVIS:  Yeah.  And if you want me to,


      15        next week, you and I can have a noticed meeting,


      16        and whoever wants to be there can.  Just explain


      17        all the things that the bill is going to


      18        encompass because it will -- it will be a lot


      19        broader than just this.


      20             But I think all of the things that were


      21        brought to me today by basically some


      22        constitutional sign experts to make it stronger,


      23        give it a better opportunity to hold up if


      24        anybody challenges it and incorporates the


      25        issues we have here.  I think it's going to be a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        really good bill.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  I think so too.


       3             All right.  So we will defer -253.


       4             MR. REINGOLD:  Mr. Chair.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.


       6             MR. REINGOLD:  Did you want to keep the


       7        public hearing open so that we could have a


       8        public hearing on it next time?


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Continue it.  Okay.  So we


      10        will open the public hearing.


      11             Do we need to hear from our one speaker or


      12        just continue it?  We have one speaker.


      13             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Donna Troup.


      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm with One Stop Thrift


      16        Shop at 3644 Post Street.


      17             Now, answer my question, what is wrong with


      18        this sign (indicating)?


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ma'am, this is a public


      20        hearing.  This is your opportunity to speak.


      21        We're not answering questions.


      22             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I've given you my


      23        recommendations and I've asked several different


      24        times per e-mails to City Council members as


      25        well as the mayor, what is wrong with my sign?




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Why can I not put it out on city right-of-way


       2        which does not have a sidewalk by there?


       3        Construction on Post Street has closed down that


       4        section now.  I've lost one entrance to my


       5        business.  I have construction signs out there,


       6        but I don't have one on Edgewood Avenue South.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do we have somebody from


       8        Planning that could maybe step aside with this


       9        woman and talk to her about the issue?  Because


      10        I think her issue is probably not really germane


      11        to this bill, but I would like to see if we can


      12        get some good answers for her.


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  No, it does pertain to


      14        this bill because weekend directional signage


      15        will not work from 3:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m., those


      16        48 hours for small business owners like myself,


      17        which is not open on Sundays.


      18             Also, why is there so many businesses


      19        closing?  Because they can't put their signs


      20        like this out.  You're charging too much for the


      21        permit fees for these, for one.


      22             I've made my recommendations.  Give us a


      23        chance to prove it to you on those


      24        recommendations that we can do it.


      25             But you see these, all these row of signs




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        it says For Rent out, the signs that says


       2        Clearwater out on the signs, the homes for sale


       3        signs, those are all signs like that, they need


       4        to be fined, not us business owners.


       5             We're trying to keep people employed.  I'm


       6        trying to train the probation department kids.


       7        I trade during the community hours.  But if I


       8        have to close my store, which I may be doing in


       9        the next two weeks because of this, I will be


      10        making sure that City Council and the mayor, I


      11        see them in court because I'm losing right now


      12        95 percent of my business, my revenue coming


      13        in.  I get $50 a day, if that anymore, since


      14        March 18th.  It's got to stop.  I can't afford a


      15        $2,600 mortgage payment on this building.


      16             So I'm -- this sign is two feet by


      17        18 inches by 40 inches high and it's not


      18        blocking the view of the traffic like this six


      19        square feet would do that.  That's not going to


      20        happen because I got businesses that's putting


      21        signs out and I'm doing it too.  I'm going to


      22        continue doing it by my construction signs to


      23        let them know, hey, you need to come down this


      24        way because Post Street you cannot come into my


      25        entrance.  And they're directing it down into




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Melba Street.


       2             People cannot see the construction sign, so


       3        I had to put the sign out here by my -- that


       4        construction sign to direct them down there, to


       5        let them know we are there still.  I'm losing


       6        customers.  I had six customers today compared


       7        to 300, 400 a day.


       8             So what does that tell you?  We're


       9        losing -- we're losing money.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      11             If you would like to speak with somebody


      12        from Planning over there, Mr. Huxford or


      13        Mr. Crofts is going to go over there and maybe


      14        they can address your issues.


      15             All right.  And we will leave that public


      16        hearing open.


      17             Okay.  Ms. Troup.


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones had a question for


      20        you.


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, sir.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Before you go to talk to


      23        Planning.


      24             MR. JONES:  Through the Chair to Ms. Troup,


      25        is the construction that's going on on Post




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Street blocking access to your business?


       2             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  One entrance, yes.


       3             MR. JONES:  Okay.


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I had to close down the


       5        entrance on Post Street that I used to see 80 to


       6        100 cars a day going up and down that road.  The


       7        construction is -- they're putting drainage


       8        fields in, then they're going to turn around and


       9        put sidewalks in, then they're going to repave


      10        the road for the next five months.


      11             MR. JONES:  Okay.  I just wanted to --


      12        thank you.


      13             Just one other question.  Have they put


      14        directional signs on how to get to your


      15        business?


      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I've got two construction


      17        signs, one facing towards Edgewood at Cypress


      18        Street and Post, which is not facing Melba


      19        Street, which is the way we have the --


      20        directing the traffic in and out through that


      21        construction to Edgewood.  So I need a sign


      22        facing -- showing my sign right there by the


      23        construction sign by the bus stop right there,


      24        say, hey, One Stop Thrift Shop is this way,


      25        because the blue sign is facing Edgewood on




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Cypress.  It's not at Edgewood Avenue South like


       2        I want it to be.


       3             MR. JONES:  So I guess you have two


       4        problems, one, you have an access problem


       5        because the construction folks have not put a


       6        sign to show how to get to your business, and


       7        then the other problem is having just a


       8        directional sign in general that you can use


       9        every weekend.


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  No.  It needs to be used


      11        six days a week for my business.  I'm there


      12        Monday through Saturday.


      13             MR. JONES:  Okay.  Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      15             All right.  And we will continue that


      16        public hearing for two weeks.


      17             All right.  Item number 7, -254, is


      18        deferred, as well as all of page 4 and 5,


      19        items 16 and 17 are also deferred.


      20             On page 6, item 18, 2010-268.


      21             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


      22             MR. BROWN:  Second.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      24        bill.


      25             Seeing no speakers, please open the ballot.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Committee ballot opened.)


       2             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       3             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


       6             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       7             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      10        vote.


      11             (Committee ballot closed.)


      12             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you've


      14        approved 2010-268.


      15             Let's see.  Items 19, 20 and -- 19 and 20


      16        are deferred.  And the remaining items 21, all


      17        of page 8, 9, and 10 are read second.


      18             Now, council members, let's go back to item


      19        number 4, 2010-212, and let me set this up a


      20        little bit.


      21             Mr. Kelly, does Mr. Crofts need to start us


      22        off or can you start us off?


      23             MR. KELLY:  I can.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  What I'd like to do


      25        on this, folks -- because I know we've got a lot




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        of speakers on this -- I'll have the Planning


       2        Department explain all the amendments and


       3        conditions that they have so everybody can


       4        understand fully what the conditions are, then


       5        we will declare our ex-partes, folks.  We need


       6        to do that.  And then open the public hearing.


       7             We'll have the applicant and those in


       8        support of the bill speak first, then we'll have


       9        all the folks that are in opposition speak, and


      10        then I'll give three additional minutes for


      11        rebuttal to the applicant himself, Mr. Hainline,


      12        and then we'll close the public hearing and


      13        we'll go about our debate.


      14             Okay.  Mr. Kelly, why don't you kick us off


      15        and tell us all about the amendments and


      16        conditions on this bill.


      17             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.  Thank you.


      18             To the Chair, application for rezoning


      19        2010-212 seeks to allow for a convenience store,


      20        gas station with 16 fueling stations.  The


      21        Planning Commission and the Planning Department


      22        have recommended approval.  The Planning


      23        Commission added some conditions that are in the


      24        memorandum dated April 29th directed to Council


      25        President Clark.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The conditions are as follows:


       2             Condition 1, "The development shall be


       3        subject to the original legal description dated


       4        February 22, 2010."


       5             Condition 2, "The development shall be


       6        subject to the original written description


       7        dated February 22nd, 2010."


       8             Condition 3, "The development shall be


       9        subject to the original site plan dated


      10        February 22nd, 2010."


      11             Condition 4, "The development shall be


      12        subject to the review and approval of the


      13        Development Services Division memorandum dated


      14        March 18th, 2010."


      15             Condition 5, "A 4-foot-high masonry wall


      16        shall be provided to the west of the five


      17        westerly parking spaces, subject to review and


      18        approval of the Planning and Development


      19        Department."


      20             Condition 6, "Outdoor speakers shall be


      21        prohibited except as otherwise required by fire


      22        code."


      23             Condition 7, "The hours of operation shall


      24        be limited from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m."


      25             And the final condition, "There shall be no




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        deliveries before 7:00 a.m. or after 7:00 p.m."


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Now, does that


       3        include all the conditions, including the


       4        Planning Commission and including from --


       5             MR. KELLY:  Correct.  That's -- the


       6        original five conditions were from staff, and


       7        the Planning Commission modified condition 5 and


       8        then added conditions 6, 7, and 8.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  All righty.  Before we open


      10        the public hearing, I'd like for any council


      11        members who have ex-parte to go ahead and


      12        declare those, just get up on the queue here.


      13             I'll go ahead and declare mine.  On


      14        March 16th at 3 o'clock, I met with Ken Wilson


      15        and T.R. Hainline about this proposal and we


      16        discussed the conditions.


      17             And since then, I've also spoken, traded


      18        e-mails with Mr. Hawkins, Lad Hawkins, regarding


      19        the Wonderwood vision plan and some of the


      20        reasons that the CPAC has recommended denial.


      21             Mr. Joost.


      22             MR. JOOST:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      23             On March 17th, I had a meeting with


      24        Ken Wilson and T.R. Hainline.  And then on


      25        May 3rd, I had a phone conversation with Mr. Ken




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Wilson of Gate.


       2             Thank you.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Redman.


       4             MR. REDMAN:  Thank you.


       5             On -- back in February, I had a


       6        conversation with Sam Mousa where he explained


       7        this to me.


       8             Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis.


      10             MR. DAVIS:  I've had a couple of


      11        conversations with the applicant and the


      12        representative of the applicant in the last


      13        couple of days.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Brown.


      15             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  On May 3rd, approximately


      16        3:00 p.m., I had telephone conversations with


      17        Sam Mousa regarding this project and basically


      18        was asked to consider all of the information


      19        that we had in the conversation in terms of


      20        making a decision to vote it up or down.


      21             Thank you.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Brown.


      23             Mr. Jones.


      24             MR. JONES:  Thank you.


      25             I was trying to check the date.  I think it




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        was March I met with Mr. Wilson and Mr. Hainline


       2        to review the proposed rezoning impact on the


       3        neighborhood and the recommendation from the


       4        Planning Department.


       5             Thank you.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Jones.


       7             Dr. Gaffney.


       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       9             Yes, in March I've had a conversation with


      10        Ken Wilson and T.R. Hainline in reference to the


      11        planning and impact on the neighborhood.


      12             Thank you.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Now that we've


      14        got all those out of the way, we will open the


      15        public hearing and we will start with


      16        Mr. Hainline, T.R. Hainline.


      17             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


      18             MR. HAINLINE:  If I can just wait until


      19        that stuff gets passed out, that would be


      20        great.


      21             My name is T.R. Hainline.  I'm here


      22        representing the Jacksonville Transportation


      23        Authority and Gate Petroleum.


      24             You have before you two recommendations.


      25        The first is from the Planning Department for




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        approval with some conditions, and the second is


       2        from your Planning Commission, which spent four


       3        hours last Thursday hearing about this, debating


       4        it, and then added three conditions and then


       5        unanimously recommended approval.


       6             Let me start with some facts that are not


       7        in dispute that are facts.


       8             One, there's been a Gate station at the


       9        intersection of McCormick and Fort Caroline for


      10        many years.


      11             Two, the Wonderwood Expressway improvements


      12        over the past few years have dramatically


      13        changed this intersection and essentially it has


      14        moved the intersection a thousand feet to the


      15        east to where it is today.


      16             And, three, the other thing that was part


      17        of those Wonderwood improvements is the JTA


      18        condemned a 7.8-acre site on the south side of


      19        that new intersection and built a stormwater


      20        pond on that site.


      21             This PUD site is on that piece of property


      22        between the stormwater pond.  If you look at


      23        some of the aerials, you can see at the recent


      24        one, between the stormwater pond and the


      25        intersection, this PUD site is right at the




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        intersection.


       2             Now, let me just give you a preview of what


       3        you're going to be hearing from the other two


       4        witnesses.  Jim Robinson, who is a traffic


       5        engineer with King Engineering, he is going to


       6        talk to you about that intersection and he's


       7        going to tell you that it is operating fine now


       8        at an acceptable level of service.  And he did a


       9        traffic study that analyzed the traffic that


      10        would come from this proposed Gate Station, and


      11        it would not adversely impact that


      12        intersection.  It remains at an acceptable level


      13        of service.  He'll tell you about that.


      14             He's also going to tell you about safety,


      15        and the new station improves safety over the


      16        previously existing site both for travel -- cars


      17        accessing the station site and pedestrians


      18        walking in front of the station site.


      19             Then Ken Wilson is going to speak, again,


      20        with Gate Petroleum.  And he's going to focus


      21        primarily on the visual impacts, and he's going


      22        to focus on the buffers that have been provided


      23        at -- within this PUD.  He's going to show you


      24        some pictures of the extensive buffering that is


      25        provided here.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I'll just throw out a couple of the


       2        conditions that have been put on us.  There are


       3        the buffers and the landscape screens he'll go


       4        into.  There's security fencing, there's


       5        limitations on lighting, limitations on hours.


       6        You've already heard about that.  Limitations on


       7        delivery hours.  There is no car wash at this


       8        gas station.  The dumpster and the vacuums and


       9        such have been located remotely away from the


      10        residential and will be fully screened.


      11             And, with that, I ask that you follow the


      12        recommendations of your Planning Department and


      13        your Planning Commission and approve this PUD.


      14             And we're, obviously, happy to answer any


      15        questions.


      16             Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Anybody have any questions


      18        for Mr. Hainline at this time?


      19             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  None.


      21             Mr. Wilson.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  You want --


      24             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Jim Robinson with King


      25        Engineering, 6500 Bowden Road.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             In your notebook at tab 2, there's an


       2        indication of the traffic volumes of this


       3        location.  There's -- one of the sketches that


       4        has a hand-drawn schematic at the bottom of the


       5        sheet just to make the interpretation easier.


       6             And you can see from that that these are


       7        daily traffic numbers.  So there are 20,000


       8        vehicles per day that traverse this


       9        intersection.


      10             The Gate station that's proposed in the new


      11        location is certainly causing a net increase of


      12        trips to the area, but it is a very small


      13        percentage of the overall traffic that traverses


      14        the intersection, only about 3 percent at the


      15        worst or most severe peak hour.


      16             And, as Mr. Hainline indicated, from a


      17        capacity standpoint, with that moderate increase


      18        of traffic, there's another chart there that


      19        shows that the before and after conditions


      20        remain the same.  The level of service in the


      21        a.m. peak hour is a level B on an A through F


      22        scale, which is a good level, very good level.


      23        And also in the p.m., both before and after or


      24        existing and proposed, are at a level of


      25        service C.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The issue of safety does have two aspects.


       2        In your still tab 2 there, there's a schematic


       3        that indicates treatment -- this is design


       4        treatment -- proposed for the pedestrian


       5        crossing.  This will be going across the Gate


       6        station driveway.


       7             And so there's a plan view on the left and


       8        a pedestrianized view on the right-hand side.


       9        In fact, this photograph is of a location on


      10        Riverside Avenue, so this treatment is something


      11        that's used in Jacksonville and has been found


      12        to be effective for safety.


      13             The other safety issue has to do with the


      14        illumination of many circuitous movements that


      15        were previously required to get into and out of


      16        the old location.  Those have been converted


      17        into very simple right-in or right-out-type


      18        movements at this four-way signalized


      19        intersection.


      20             So on both pedestrian and traffic --


      21        vehicular traffic safety standpoint, this does


      22        represent a superior alternative.


      23             I'd be happy to answer any questions.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I don't see any questions at


      25        this time.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Mr. Wilson.


       2             (Mr. Crescimbeni enters the proceedings.)


       3             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       4             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Ken Wilson,


       5        representing Gate Petroleum Company, 9540


       6        San Jose Boulevard.


       7             This community is one that I grew up in.  I


       8        moved into this community at the Holly Oaks


       9        subdivision of this community in 1960 and lived


      10        there all through my youth, my elementary


      11        school, junior high, and high school.  Went to


      12        church with some of these people that we've been


      13        discussing this project with, and I know them.


      14             The fact that we would go there and I would


      15        embarrass myself and Gate Petroleum was


      16        something we constructed on this site just would


      17        not happen.  I mean, you know who we are, we've


      18        been in this community for a long time, and you


      19        know where we are, and we pride ourselves on


      20        building things that are of quality.


      21             I'd like to take you quickly to tabs 3 and


      22        4.  We'll start with 3, of course.  I'm going to


      23        go quickly because we've got a lot to cover, but


      24        obviously stop me if I'm confusing you or if I


      25        miss something.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Under tab 3, the first exhibit is the micro


       2        site exhibit.  If you'll look closely at that,


       3        if you'll look to the left-hand side of that


       4        micro exhibit, you'll see a white line labeled


       5        "landscape buffer, 50 feet."  The line is


       6        actually the security fence I'm going to show


       7        you in a few minutes.  It will be screened


       8        within that 50-foot buffer to the west, adjacent


       9        to those property lines.


      10             Along the south end, the bottom of the


      11        sheet and up along the eastern side to the right


      12        of the sheet, is a 25-foot landscape buffer.


      13        Don't be confused.  Even though the property


      14        line as laid out by the survey crew falls in the


      15        water, we have 25 feet of plantable land area to


      16        construct a buffer around those areas.


      17             And it also shows the relocation of the


      18        dumpster site to the east side of the building,


      19        away from the residential.


      20             The next exhibit shows its orientation to


      21        the area.  The only thing here I'd like to point


      22        out is that triangular-shaped green piece in the


      23        middle is the site that would be conveyed to the


      24        City for greenspace and park space upon the


      25        approval of this PUD.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The next page is the front elevation of our


       2        facility which is unique, a unique piece of


       3        architecture for Gate.  What you will not see


       4        there -- this is a canopy.  It's a hip canopy


       5        standing-seam metal roof.  You will not see the


       6        red Gate band.  You see the signage there is


       7        subtle.


       8             I'm going to move now -- I apologize.  I'm


       9        going to move to 4 because I'm running out of


      10        time.  You see distances there from the facility


      11        to the property lines.  The closest point is


      12        91 feet.  Our farthest point is about 350 feet


      13        to the rear, to the south.


      14             As you flip past that, you will see some


      15        buffer exhibits.  Two pages past that, you will


      16        see the 25-foot application screening.  That


      17        screening screens a Kmart building of


      18        approximately 55,000 square feet adjacent to the


      19        Gate corporate headquarters.  It does it within


      20        25 feet.


      21             We planted that buffer, and that lake in


      22        front of it is about 100 feet wide.  So in the


      23        application, we have about 300 feet of distance


      24        to accomplish what we accomplished in 100 feet


      25        here.  And, again, that is a 25-foot planted




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        landscape buffer that conceals that Kmart


       2        commercial facility.


       3             The next couple of pictures are the rear of


       4        the building, and there are other exhibits there


       5        that explain how we can provide a 100 percent


       6        opaque buffer.  We've been doing it for


       7        30 years.


       8             Be glad to answer any questions you might


       9        have.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Wilson.


      11             Mr. Davis.


      12             MR. DAVIS:  In order for me to understand


      13        and be able to approve this or disapprove it,


      14        the landscape buffer is very important to me


      15        regarding this issue.  If we could, I'd like to


      16        ask Mr. Wilson to continue.  I need more


      17        information on this landscape buffer, if that's


      18        okay.


      19             MR. WILSON:  I'd be happy to.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, Mr. Wilson.


      21             MR. WILSON:  Okay.  With that in mind, I'm


      22        going to slow down and take you back to tab 4 to


      23        the beginning.  The first exhibit is very


      24        important because of the distances you see


      25        there.  I'm going to show you, again, that




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        picture of the buffer across the lake of the


       2        existing buffer that we have close to our


       3        corporate office.


       4             The lake you're looking at in that picture


       5        is about 100 feet across, and then we've planted


       6        a 25-foot buffer of trees, shrubs, and


       7        understory to completely block the Kmart store


       8        that you see in the inset photograph, which


       9        is -- that's two pages over from this distance


      10        exhibit.


      11             That's the -- actually taking the shadow


      12        you see there on the parking lot of the inset


      13        photo of the Kmart is actually the shadow coming


      14        from the trees and the buffer.  It's screening


      15        it from our office site.


      16             It's very difficult.  I mean, if you look


      17        really, really hard, you can see the edge of the


      18        top of the building there in the center, but


      19        even that is manageable to the point of a


      20        100 percent opaque buffer.  And we did not plant


      21        this as densely as the buffer would be planted


      22        on this Gate station.


      23             To take you on further -- and I'll answer


      24        questions about these, but I want to make sure I


      25        get through them.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The next exhibit is the Monument Road


       2        station at the intersection of Monument Road and


       3        9A.  This station -- this is the rear of the


       4        station.  It fronts Hospitality Lane, which is a


       5        public right-of-way, public road.  I'm standing


       6        approximately on the hotel site.  I'm kind of


       7        catty-corner to it.  And I just put this in here


       8        to show you just typically what we do in all of


       9        our new stations is an outstanding job of


      10        landscaping, whether we're intentionally trying


      11        to buffer or not.


      12             This is in a commercial area.  We are not


      13        trying to buffer our station.  We want people to


      14        see our station, but you see the density of


      15        landscape.


      16             The next page is the San Jose Boulevard


      17        station.  This is at our corporate


      18        headquarters.  Funny, but we enjoy looking at


      19        our stations.  It's our business.  This is just


      20        the quality of landscaping, again, across a


      21        retention pond that we do and will do on this


      22        facility, only this PUD application anticipates


      23        a much denser buffer than what you see here.


      24             That's the back of a 20 MPD, a larger


      25        station than what we're proposing in this PUD.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             If you flip to the next page, that is not


       2        important.  This is just the concept.  That's a


       3        typical tennis court with a confederate jasmine


       4        planted on a chain-link fence.


       5             The next picture, though, the application


       6        picture is important.  Behind this fence, this


       7        wall -- and it's not a wall.  That's an 8-foot,


       8        black, vinyl clad, chain-link fence planted with


       9        confederate jasmine irrigated 100 percent to


      10        maintain the growth rate.  It becomes completely


      11        opaque.  This one did in approximately 14


      12        months.  And behind there is the Mandarin


      13        library, which I think is about a


      14        38,000-square-foot, two-story facility.


      15             If you flip the page, you'll see a picture


      16        of the parking lot and the building directly


      17        behind this buffer.  And if you look really,


      18        really hard, again, in the middle, you can see


      19        just the tip of a little bit of brick as that's


      20        been screened.


      21             This picture is probably taken no more than


      22        30 feet from the fence line.  We've got much


      23        more distance than that on the property that's


      24        proposed in this PUD to deal with distance and


      25        additional plantings.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Then the final picture here is the


       2        screening dumpster, screening of a dumpster.  It


       3        just shows you how typically we built the


       4        dumpsters out of compatible architectural


       5        materials and provide landscape screening.


       6             Now, the last thing I'll do, and this is


       7        the end of it, I'd like to flip back over to


       8        tab 3, the very first exhibit where you see the


       9        station and the surrounding buffers, and I want


      10        to focus on the 50-foot buffer to the left.  The


      11        fence you just saw with the confederate jasmine


      12        on it would be constructed in the middle of that


      13        50 feet, approximately 25 feet from the


      14        residential property line.  Part of the reason


      15        for that is there are existing hardwoods in that


      16        50 feet.  Some were cleared by JTA, but there's


      17        a good number still remaining.  We will


      18        construct that fence behind those hardwoods,


      19        leaving those hardwoods to the residential side


      20        of the buffer, giving a full 25 feet of


      21        additional planting and landscape on both sides


      22        of that opaque, confederate jasmine, 8-foot


      23        chain-link fence you saw on the previous


      24        exhibits.


      25             MR. DAVIS:  I'm satisfied with the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        explanation, Mr. Chairman.


       2             MR. WILSON:  Thank you.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Wilson.


       4             Tony Robbins, please.


       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman,


       7        members of the --


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  If you could give your name


       9        and address for the record, please.


      10             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Tony Robbins, 11361 Sweet


      11        Cherry Lane, Jacksonville 32225.


      12             Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I


      13        thank you for this opportunity to speak to you.


      14        I've provided correspondence in support of the


      15        application before you.  I sat through the


      16        testimony and listened to the -- all points of


      17        view expressed by the Planning Commission and


      18        remain unchanged in my opinion that this is a


      19        positive proposal for rezoning in this area of


      20        Arlington.


      21             I repeatedly looked and objectively


      22        analyzed trying to find ways in which this


      23        application is inconsistent with the supreme


      24        growth management laws of our city, the


      25        comprehensive plan.  I find no disagreement with




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        anything in your professional staff report.  I


       2        see where the comprehensive plan supports the


       3        PUD.  This committee knows full good and well


       4        the development controls and the benefits that


       5        can be offered through the PUD process.


       6             And Mr. Wilson and the team from -- the


       7        applicant's team have more than exemplified


       8        listening to the community and a sensitivity to


       9        the area, not coming in and trying to cram in a


      10        cookie-cutter, standard model Gate station that


      11        would be there.


      12             The -- I'm grateful for Gate for not giving


      13        up on Arlington as times are tough, and I'm not


      14        aware of -- I have no knowledge of how the


      15        businesses are doing, but they could very well


      16        have given up on the station, but they choose


      17        not to.  They're abiding by the comprehensive


      18        plan and the separations of this new


      19        intersection alluded to earlier, now 1,000 feet


      20        further to the east.


      21             It's a safer intersection, a signalized


      22        intersection, one that does not promote strip


      23        commercial development.  I say that as a


      24        professional certified planner as well as a


      25        parent, a member of the Holly Oaks Swim Club




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        neighboring the property, as well as a deacon of


       2        the nearby Fort Caroline Baptist Church.


       3             This is my community.  I would have nothing


       4        but my reputation and name to stand behind, and


       5        I would not be here on my own time supporting


       6        this if I was not aware, again, the positive


       7        aspects of this application and, again, the


       8        level of commitment expressed by the applicant


       9        and their team into reducing the incompatibility


      10        that could be possible.  This is not true of the


      11        current location where they are with


      12        conventional zoning.


      13             If Gate was to go away or not redo that


      14        site, any use permissible in the neighborhood


      15        commercial could be possible.  Closer to my


      16        residence at McCormick -- I'm sorry -- on


      17        Fort Caroline and Fulton, there is strip


      18        commercial.  There's a Chevron station, a bar, a


      19        nail place, the Hidden Hills Animal Clinic, as


      20        well as a day care along that area, and they


      21        have nothing like the controls that are


      22        contained in this PUD up against Old Hidden


      23        Hills.


      24             So, again, in closing, Mr. Chairman, this


      25        opportunity offers support for the comprehensive




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        plan's efforts that you're doing with mobility


       2        because I would have fewer -- this community


       3        would have fewer vehicle miles traveled to take


       4        advantage of the fine products and the -- those


       5        items offered at this PUD from this Gate station


       6        being in its general location where it has been


       7        historically versus having to go to 9A or not


       8        use their services at all.


       9             I appreciate the opportunity.  And if there


      10        are any questions, I'm more than happy to answer


      11        them.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Robbins.


      13             All right.  The first speaker in opposition


      14        is -- sorry if I mess up your name here, but


      15        Barbara Leis.


      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Leis (pronouncing).


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Leis.  Sorry about that.


      18             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you for coming down.


      20             Please give us your name and address.


      21             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      22             I'm Barbara Leis.  I live at 10640 Beverly


      23        Nalle Road, Jacksonville, Florida 32225.


      24             And I'm in the Holly Oaks area, which is


      25        very close to where this proposed PUD change is




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to take place.


       2             Naturally, I am against it and for many


       3        reasons.  The first reason is we don't need a


       4        larger Gate gas station in the community.  They


       5        currently have four.  They want to expand it


       6        400 times to a 16-pump station.  We just don't


       7        need anything that big in this neighborhood.  In


       8        a 2.2-mile radius, there are already 74 pumps.


       9        I mean, we have plenty of gas stations in the


      10        area.  And Gate itself already has a 20-gas-pump


      11        station within that 2.2 miles, so we are overly


      12        saturated.  We have plenty of gas stations in


      13        our neighborhood.


      14             Where they are located now and where they


      15        have been for 40 years is just fine.  We've not


      16        had any problems with them being there.  What


      17        they want to do is to move across the street,


      18        right smack dab in the middle of the Laudonniere


      19        neighborhood where they are going to be backed


      20        up literally in the backyards of these homes.


      21             How many of you would like to have a


      22        20-pump gas station put in your backyard?  And


      23        that is what Gate is trying to do.  There is


      24        absolutely no reason for them to move from their


      25        current location.  When they do that, they are




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        going against the Wonderwood study.  We're all


       2        very aware of that study.  And in the study, it


       3        says that the study consistently discourages any


       4        zoning or changes in land use that would -- and


       5        listen to this -- increase the density and the


       6        intensity of development as it would negatively


       7        impact the residential character found along


       8        this corridor.  We're talking about the


       9        Wonderwood corridor.


      10             So going from a 400 percent increase is


      11        definitely going to increase the density and the


      12        intensity of the development in that area.  It


      13        also is not consistent with the comp plan, the


      14        2010 comp plan or the 2030 comp plan.


      15             Well, that's basically it.


      16             Oh, the plans have -- I'm sorry, I'm a


      17        little nervous here, very upset about what's


      18        happening to my community.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.


      20             MS. LEIS:  In the Wonderwood plan itself,


      21        in the study, it actually warned against


      22        overservicing by the commercial acreage, so it


      23        already predicted that when the Wonderwood went


      24        through the neighborhoods, that it was going to


      25        be a tendency to overdevelop it, you know, for




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        commercial uses.  And they warned against that


       2        and they said, please follow the vision -- the


       3        community's vision.


       4             Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       6             Dave Evans, followed by Lad Hawkins.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


       9             My name is Dave Evans and I live at 2007


      10        Hovington Circle West.  That's 32246.


      11             I am shocked that this issue has been


      12        reintroduced to this council after it was


      13        previously soundly defeated.  It goes to show


      14        that the big money people just pay their lawyers


      15        to keep reintroducing a change until they wear


      16        the people out.


      17             The last time it came up I said that B.B.


      18        McCormick was rolling over in his grave.  I'm


      19        sure the thunder I heard in the middle of the


      20        night last week was him.  This cemetery that


      21        adjoins this property is an old family cemetery


      22        and is pristine.


      23             The audacity of the Transportation


      24        Authority and Gate Petroleum to desecrate this


      25        cemetery with the likes of a gas station as well




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        as a small but special community -- what


       2        business is this of mine you might ask.  I've


       3        lived in Holly Oaks for over 25 years and raised


       4        my children there.  Holly Oaks and Laudonniere


       5        were literally considered one and the same.  In


       6        fact, years ago, Holly Oaks had a Santa Claus


       7        and sleigh and that visited both communities at


       8        Christmas.


       9             At present, Gate has closed the station


      10        across the street from where this would be


      11        located.  One might think that there would be a


      12        little difference esthetically.  Wrong.  You


      13        will be replacing a 4-pump station with a


      14        16-pump station and increasing the size from


      15        2,640 square feet to 5,000 square feet that will


      16        adversely affect the safety of children going to


      17        the Holly Oaks pool and will adversely affect


      18        the residents of Laudonniere with unwanted noise


      19        and bright lighting.


      20             Understand that neighborhood commercial


      21        does not restrict the number of gas pumps to


      22        fewer than 16, but common sense does.  Let them


      23        rebuild on the old site.  One might think there


      24        would be some advantages for the residents in


      25        this immediate area.  Wrong.  It will imperil




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the children and create blight in the


       2        neighborhood.


       3             I mentioned Mr. McCormick's family


       4        cemetery, which would be adjacent to the


       5        property, and must ask you, what happens when


       6        you have a fuel spill and some of it seeps into


       7        that cemetery?


       8             We have all seen gas stations that had to


       9        replace their tanks because of leaks and are


      10        aware of many sites that must be cleaned up


      11        before they can be sold.


      12             The water table there is about 68 feet.  I


      13        know this because years ago we had a problem


      14        with the pool and did repairs and almost floated


      15        the pool next door.  So the water table is right


      16        there.


      17             I might add, the pool club serves a much


      18        larger area than Holly Oaks and Laudonniere.


      19             Thank you.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      21             Mr. Hawkins.


      22             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      23             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Lad Hawkins.


      24        I live at 1924 Holly Oaks Lake Road West.


      25             I'm here speaking in opposition to




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        2010-212.


       2             I've worked as a planner in Jacksonville


       3        and lived in the Greater Arlington area for the


       4        last 40 years.  I was on the Wonderwood citizens


       5        advisory committee when they planned


       6        Wonderwood.  At one time, you may know, this was


       7        an expressway.  We got it changed from an


       8        expressway to -- they call it a connector.


       9             When Lynette Self was councilman for this


      10        area, the community worked very hard with


      11        Lynette to come up with the Wonderwood Corridor


      12        Study.


      13             If you -- you noticed the expert who spoke


      14        on the planning, who thinks this is a good idea,


      15        Tony Robbins, didn't even mention this document


      16        which was prepared by the Planning Department in


      17        2004.  I urge all of you to read this whole


      18        document.  It says very clearly that up and down


      19        all of Wonderwood there is not supposed to be


      20        strip commercial.  It warns that this is a


      21        problem.  And once you do this here, there's


      22        nothing to stop you from having another one


      23        happen right down the street.


      24             Anytime you get to a node -- right at


      25        St. Johns Bluff and Wonderwood, there's a -- in




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the southwest quadrant, there's a big house


       2        there on the corner, the old buck house.  If


       3        that's the guy that decides he wants to have a


       4        Walgreens there and he puts up a nice buffer, as


       5        they're telling you they're going to do, then


       6        you guys are probably going to think that's a


       7        great idea too.  And the next thing you know,


       8        further down the road we're going to have the


       9        same thing and we're going to end up with


      10        Atlantic Boulevard.


      11             This is not good planning.  That's why this


      12        study was done, why the Planning Department did


      13        this study, and how the Planning Department can


      14        look you in the eye and tell you that this is


      15        not what -- is what they recommended is really a


      16        shame.


      17             There is really a lack of trust in


      18        government right now, and this is really a great


      19        opportunity for you to gain the trust of the


      20        community.  I serve on the CPAC.  I'm the


      21        president of the Greater Arlington Civic Council


      22        and I serve on the visioning steering committee


      23        for the Arlington/Beaches.  All three of these


      24        groups have unanimously asked you to vote no on


      25        this.  This is inappropriate for our community.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I urge you, support the community and turn


       2        this down.  This is not what is needed.


       3             Thank you.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hawkins.


       5             Our next speaker is John Roberts, followed


       6        by Karen Finnell.


       7             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       8             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is John Roberts.


       9        I live at 3947 Meadowview Drive North, and I'm


      10        here speaking on behalf of the Valley Homeowners


      11        Association.  That's a group of 410 residences.


      12             I noticed something interesting of the


      13        proponents.  The proponents basically present


      14        this as a relocation, a relocation of a small


      15        convenience store with, as I recall, two pumps.


      16        There are two pump stations -- to an area where


      17        there will be what seems rather close to a


      18        supermarket with 16 pumps.


      19             Well, that's like saying that that's the


      20        equivalent -- that's like saying a Chihuahua and


      21        a St. Bernard are equivalent because they're


      22        both dogs.


      23             Well, let's take a look at what the area


      24        is.  The area is a well-settled community, old


      25        houses, churches, and we're going to plop down a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        large filling station and a semi supermarket in


       2        its midst.  I don't think it should be done.


       3             Now, people have given reasons why it


       4        shouldn't be done.  I can't elaborate upon


       5        those, but I'll say the area is adequately


       6        served by existing filling stations.


       7             I ran around and did some looking within --


       8        just down Fort Caroline, Merrill Road, and


       9        Monument.  And within about two-and-a-half


      10        miles, I found nine stations.  Each of them had


      11        a convenience store.  There were 53 pump


      12        stations there, which could serve at the same


      13        time, I figure, 106 cars, and three of the


      14        stations had car washes.


      15             At one location there, within seven-tenths


      16        of a mile, at the corner of St. Johns Bluff and


      17        Monument, there's a filling station that's


      18        abandoned.  It's closed.  And we want to stick


      19        16 more pumps in?  It's ridiculous.


      20             I ask the council to vote against this


      21        proposal.


      22             Thank you.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      24             Karen Finnell, followed by Oz Baker.


      25             (Audience member approaches the podium.)




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello again.


       2             Karen Finnell, 2066 Challeux Drive West.


       3             The relocation of the Gate gas station and


       4        store is not compatible and is in violation of


       5        the 2030 comprehensive plan as follows:  2.2.4,


       6        it does not support nearby residential areas but


       7        intrudes upon them.  3.1.19, The City shall


       8        recognize and maintain neighborhoods and protect


       9        them in light of developmental pressures


      10        surrounding them.


      11             The 2030 report discusses low density


      12        residential.  I don't understand the logic on


      13        how a 16-vehicle Gate gas station and Food Post


      14        is low intensity retail, nor is it consistent


      15        with the character of land use already in


      16        existence.  A 16-pump station is high intensity


      17        and does not fit under the secondary uses


      18        definition of filling stations and other


      19        low-intensity retail as defined by the 2030.


      20             It will have an estimated 2,600 trips


      21        daily.  I can't imagine what would be a higher


      22        intense use of this except something like a


      23        Walmart.


      24             FLUE 3.1.2, the application should not set


      25        a precedent for the domino effect of commercial




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        development and blight along Wonderwood.


       2        Violation of FLUE 1.1.7 by being spot zoning.


       3             FLUE 3.2.2 states, Instead of land use


       4        zoning changes, redevelop the existing


       5        commercial sites in the area.


       6             Gate doesn't want a 4-, 6-, or 8-pump gas


       7        station and store which could be built in the


       8        triangle.  They want more.  They want a


       9        400 percent increase, from 4 to 16 pumps, and


      10        almost a 5,000-foot store, more money.


      11             The Planning Commission stated Gate could


      12        be grandfathered into the triangle, possibly


      13        Fort Caroline in the north could be made into a


      14        cul-de-sac, and some property given to Gate for


      15        rebuilding there.  Don't let them kid you, it's


      16        nowhere near as dangerous as the proposed site


      17        will be.


      18             Gate talks about how pretty the new gas


      19        station store design is, low lights, minimal


      20        signs.  Well, you can pretty up a pig, you can


      21        still call it a pig, though, because that's what


      22        it is with pig characteristics, it's still a


      23        pig.


      24             But a gas station.  Well, a gas station has


      25        brightness, noise, toxic smells and danger




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        because it is what it is, it's a gas station.


       2        Visual is not the problem here.  If a boat, an


       3        RV, a construction trailer or modular problems


       4        were put on this property, they may not be


       5        pretty, but they wouldn't have the noise, the


       6        smell, the danger, the lights of a gas station.


       7             Gate says the new station store will be


       8        smaller than the shops in the triangle area.


       9        Well, we don't care how much square footage the


      10        shops in the triangle have because they're not


      11        next to us.  They're over there.


      12             And, once again, the picture that I passed


      13        out, that was taken from one of our property


      14        lines toward the proposed Gate gas station.  And


      15        that's one of the last geese that are in the


      16        area floating through the property, happened to


      17        be there while I was there.  But there were no


      18        trees or bushes on this property because when


      19        JTA came in, they wiped them all out.  What you


      20        see there is what they replanted with.  And if


      21        Gate plans to replace similar buffer zones, God


      22        help us all.


      23             Thank you.


      24             Oh, I would be glad to answer any


      25        questions.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       2             Mr. Baker, Oz Baker, followed by Robena


       3        Crook.


       4             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       5             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Oz Baker, 2066


       6        Challeux Drive.


       7             Thank you.


       8             You know, Melanie [sic] Hines at City


       9        Planning asked a very great question the other


      10        day.  Just because they had a store in the area,


      11        does that give them the right to have another


      12        one?  Just a thought.


      13             Gate was recently asked the question, the


      14        number of car trips, as we've already found out,


      15        but they didn't want to answer that question


      16        because the number is staggering as calculated


      17        by the Institute of Transportation Engineers.


      18        There's where that figure comes from, 2,600


      19        trips per day at the proposed high-intensity


      20        uses.


      21             But what's appalling is Gate uses this


      22        phrase "serious safety concerns" at the old


      23        current location knowing full well that those


      24        serious safety concerns would be far and away


      25        much greater at the new proposed site.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             The intent of Wonderwood was a


       2        transportation corridor for Mayport, the


       3        beaches, and neighborhoods in the area to the


       4        bridges over the St. Johns River in emergency


       5        situations for evacuation.  The flow would be


       6        westbound and any gas stations along the


       7        corridor would be prudently positioned on the


       8        north edge of the corridor to maintain an


       9        expedient and efficient flow away from the


      10        beaches.


      11             Furthermore, this proposed high intensity


      12        usage is inconsistent with the Wonderwood


      13        corridor land use and study.


      14             CPAC, all the wisdom, they unanimously


      15        voted it down.  You-all did too in December of


      16        2008, overwhelmingly.


      17             Gate's proposal is a plainly obviously


      18        intrusion into adjacent single-family homes,


      19        children, parks, swim clubs.  They don't care


      20        about the kids.  They just care about the


      21        dollars.  The way that they so elegantly said


      22        they don't count cars, they just count dollars,


      23        quote-unquote.


      24             This will impose an unreasonable downward


      25        pressure on surrounding property values due to




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the tremendous increase in the noise, toxins,


       2        drunk drivers, drugs, armed robbers, and the


       3        massive traffic.  This intrusion will affect the


       4        quality of life negatively for the area and


       5        would most certainly extinguish many remaining


       6        wildlife species to include foxes, turtles,


       7        owls, eagles, red hawks, many others that I


       8        watch every day.


       9             In December 2008, Officer Crow testified to


      10        his experience of increased criminal activities


      11        in and around gas stations.  Could not be here


      12        tonight because he's doing his job.  There are


      13        already ten stations with over 90 pumps.


      14        There's actually 91 within 2.2 miles.  I


      15        double-checked it again this weekend, and


      16        they're all outparcels in front of large


      17        shopping centers, all of which are adjacent


      18        to -- that are not adjacent to single-family


      19        neighborhoods.  The photos you have attest to


      20        this.


      21             There's many other levels of lighter


      22        usages, more appropriate and consistent with the


      23        surrounding area.  For instance, you could


      24        expand Buck Park, low-density, single-family


      25        homes, et cetera.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Thank you.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


       3             Robena Crook, followed by Brenda Fox.


       4             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.


       7             My name is Robena Crook.  I live at 10961


       8        Challeux Drive South, 32225.


       9             My property backs up to this intersection


      10        that we're talking about, so probably I am the


      11        most impacted by this of anybody else that's


      12        going to speak.


      13             I'm sure you know my name by now because


      14        I've written all of you letters, I've appeared


      15        at all the meetings, I've given talks, and it's


      16        not often you really deal with an admitted


      17        crook.


      18             Tonight, I don't want to go into all the


      19        plans and the restrictions and everything.  I


      20        just want to talk to you on a personal level.


      21             I have worked hard all my life to obtain


      22        and pay for this property.  I have lived in this


      23        house 37 years and have never failed to pay my


      24        taxes, everything has been on time.  I've worked


      25        hard so that I could be safe and comfortable in




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        my old age, and now I'm faced with having a Gate


       2        station in my backyard.


       3             After my husband died, my son and his


       4        family moved around the corner to Raley Creek to


       5        be near me.  If this station goes in, now my own


       6        grandsons, who made this move to be near to me,


       7        would not be safe walking or riding their bike


       8        around to my house because they would have to go


       9        by this Gate station.


      10             When they cut down all the trees behind my


      11        house to make the retention pond, it exposed my


      12        house and property.  I can stand at my kitchen


      13        window and look straight over across into the


      14        post office.  And when cars are stopped at the


      15        red light at the intersection, they can see over


      16        into my house.  My bedrooms are upstairs, so


      17        I've had to put shutters on all my windows to


      18        keep people from peeping into my house.  And I


      19        can only imagine what it would be like for the


      20        station to be there.  It would all be


      21        increased.


      22             I understand Gate's position.  My family


      23        has owned and operated a business for 45 years.


      24        The warehouse that we were renting was taken by


      25        eminent domain.  And at that point in time, we




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        had to build a new warehouse.  And we had no


       2        space where we were located, but we opted not to


       3        move, try to move into the neighborhood, so we


       4        located it at a different location that would


       5        not impact the neighborhood.


       6             Why should all the little businesses have


       7        to operate by a different standard than the big


       8        ones?  We do not object to the station being


       9        where it is, but we object to them moving it


      10        into our neighborhood.  We've supported them all


      11        these years.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      13             MS. CROOK:  Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Brenda Fox, followed by John


      15        Fox.


      16             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, ma'am.


      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Brenda Fox,


      19        and I live at 2046 Challeux Drive, adjoining


      20        this property.


      21             It's a very important issue for me.  I was


      22        raised next to a gas station.


      23             The last meeting we were at, Gate made this


      24        sound like such a terrible thing, that there was


      25        a red light there and then their driveway.  I




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        just wondered why that didn't ring true.  It was


       2        because when I went down Atlantic Boulevard, I


       3        was able to take pictures, which you-all should


       4        have copies of, and it seems to be the rule that


       5        you have a red light and then you have the


       6        driveway into a Gate gas station rather than the


       7        exception.


       8             By the pictures, I have the amount of


       9        acreage and their exact address.  You can check


      10        that out easy enough.  One of them, there was so


      11        little space between the light and the gas


      12        station that I asked my husband to stop and I


      13        measured it.  It was about 18 to 21 feet,


      14        depending on exactly where you measured on the


      15        curb.


      16             There's a picture on one page that says


      17        1.3 acres.  It's referring to the old seafood


      18        market building, the triangle property, which is


      19        bigger than all the gas stations that I looked


      20        at.  And then the picture right underneath it is


      21        the street directly behind it.  There's no rush


      22        there.  Nobody ever makes a right turn there in


      23        that lane.  It's wasted because the merge goes


      24        down, it has its own lane for quite a while.  It


      25        does not stop at the end of the triangle.  It's




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        a very nice, smooth merge.  Even I do it, and I


       2        drive like an old lady.


       3             The one other fact I want to make is that


       4        Gate has built a 12-fueling-position station at


       5        9144 Baymeadows Road on .65 acres of land.  The


       6        triangle contains much more than that, so I


       7        think somehow they could put a beautiful,


       8        little, 12-fueling-station gas station there.


       9             They are making their actual gas station


      10        bigger and adding pumps.  Forget about the


      11        seafood's acreage, whether -- I mean, building.


      12        They shouldn't be able to count that in their


      13        calculations.


      14             Second -- I know you're going to beep me,


      15        so I just want to tell you, this is not a safety


      16        issue.  I truly believe it's about greed.  I


      17        believe this is about love of money, not about


      18        people.  We're begging for our neighborhood to


      19        stay nice and our families to be safe.  No tree


      20        is going to keep the bad guy, no bush, from


      21        running into my yard with his gun after he


      22        robbed that station, and it happens all the


      23        time.


      24             Please save our families from that.  I've


      25        been there.  I know what I'm talking about




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        firsthand as a child.  Please save my child from


       2        that.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       4             John Fox, followed by Melanie McCoy.


       5             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


       6             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.


       7             My name is John Fox.  I reside at 2046


       8        Challeux Drive West, Jacksonville, Florida.


       9             I'll be talking -- you can -- from this


      10        document (indicating), the third page.


      11             What I'd like to talk about is the approval


      12        of this rezoning application will set the


      13        precedent for similar rezoning of an additional


      14        30 residential-zoned properties at eight nodal


      15        intersections along the Wonderwood


      16        transportation corridor, which is going to have


      17        a negative impact on the entire community and


      18        also is totally against the whole purpose of the


      19        transportation corridor concept and also against


      20        the Wonderwood study.


      21             Let's take a look at page 3 of the


      22        handout.  This is the intersection of St. Johns


      23        Bluff and Fort Caroline Road, which is also


      24        known as Wonderwood.  And you are looking at the


      25        very similar type of intersection as what we are




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        discussing today, except with a lot less


       2        intrusion into a neighborhood.  The road


       3        T-bones -- St. Johns Bluff T-bones into


       4        Wonderwood at the traffic light.


       5             Now, on the other side of that traffic


       6        light is 4.8 acres of residential low density


       7        property, which happens to be owned by a real


       8        estate investor and developer.  Also -- so --


       9        and adjacent to that property is also land


      10        that's owned by JEA.


      11             Now, why shouldn't we think that once this


      12        precedent is set for -- this investor/developer


      13        will not be back here in a couple of months with


      14        an application to develop this land?


      15             The bottom picture is across the street


      16        with the view looking south at 1.3 acres of


      17        residential low density land, another prime


      18        candidate for commercial development once this


      19        precedent is set.


      20             Obviously, this site is 1.3 acres and would


      21        be a prime candidate as Gate gas -- Gate just


      22        built a gas station on Baymeadows.  They just


      23        completed it within the last six months on 6. --


      24        or .65 acres of land.  So this is going to open


      25        up the whole corridor to this development, which




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        is against the Wonderwood study.


       2             Also, I would like to talk about nodes for


       3        a minute.  That seems to be a hot topic with


       4        regard to this.


       5             The subject site does not meet the criteria


       6        for designation as a node as the subject site is


       7        not suitable for medium to high int- --


       8        densities and intensities of development as set


       9        forth in the definition of a node.


      10             The proposed site has a low-density


      11        residential FLUE and is inappropriate for such


      12        designation as the site is surrounded by eight


      13        residential, low-density, single-family homes.


      14             I ask you to please deny this application.


      15             Thank you.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      17             Melanie McCoy, followed by Stephanie


      18        Danley.


      19             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      20             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      21             My name is Melanie McCoy.  I live at 10908


      22        Challeux Court.


      23             I'm going to be talking to you tonight


      24        about the Wonderwood study and some points


      25        specifically in it related to -- to this and my




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        recommendation to deny the application.


       2             When you read through the Wonderwood study,


       3        the main theme and intent is that this is a


       4        transportation corridor and not a commercial


       5        corridor.  The study consistently discourages


       6        any upzoning or secondary land use development


       7        that has an increase in densities and


       8        intensities as this would negatively impact the


       9        residential character of the corridor.


      10             The study states that the overall purpose


      11        is to develop sound growth management strategies


      12        to preserve the quality of life of the many


      13        people who now and may some day live along this


      14        corridor and makes the following


      15        recommendations.


      16             On page 9 of the Wonderwood study, it


      17        specifically notes that it is recognized that


      18        there will be pressure to change land use and


      19        zoning designations once additional traffic


      20        begins to travel over the connector -- over a


      21        completed connector.  However, as long as the


      22        connector fulfills its transportation function


      23        of expeditiously and safely [sic] for those


      24        passing through the area.  It does not need to


      25        be a part of their discretionary shopping needs.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             On page 10, the study also warns that the


       2        Wonderwood Connector corridor would ideally be


       3        served by about 600 acres of commercial use


       4        given that almost 700 acres of built and unbuilt


       5        commercial land exists.  This area has a


       6        potential to become overserved by commercial


       7        acreage without experiencing any changes to


       8        existing land use designations.


       9             On page 15, under Buck Park, the study


      10        discusses the proposed JTA pond site, Buck Park,


      11        and the Holly Oaks Community Center.  The study


      12        notes that the plans to renovate and upgrade


      13        Buck Park will make this an area with a unique


      14        mix of compatible land uses and a tranquil


      15        feel.


      16             If you refer to page 15, map 9, related to


      17        their current Gate station site, the


      18        intersection of Fort Caroline and McCormick


      19        Roads, the site remaining after realignment is


      20        now zoned neighborhood commercial and in a


      21        commercial and neighborhood land use category


      22        and should be redeveloped consistent with those


      23        designations.


      24             On the top of page 15 of the Wonderwood


      25        study, it specifically notes, no modification in




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        zoning district is recommended along McCormick


       2        Road, between Moment and Fort Caroline Roads,


       3        which is where application 2010-212 property is


       4        located.


       5             On page 16, the conclusion notes, to ensure


       6        that this significant improvement to the


       7        transportation system of Jacksonville does not


       8        negatively impact on the residential


       9        neighborhoods it passes through, this may be


      10        accomplished by approaching road construction


      11        with a vision for the community so that the


      12        community vision dictates the future of the


      13        surrounding neighborhoods rather than the road.


      14             I recommend denial of this application.


      15             Thank you for your time this evening.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      17             Stephanie Danley, followed by Dianne Wiles.


      18             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      19             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good evening.


      20             My name is Stephanie Danley.  I live at


      21        11021 Challeux Drive South, and I do back up to


      22        this property.


      23             I have lived in this neighborhood since my


      24        parents moved there back in the '70s, so I'm


      25        probably one of the older residents, believe it




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        or not, in this neighborhood.


       2             I've watched the area grow.  I've watched


       3        the intersection that exists, that was the old


       4        Fort Caroline and McCormick Road intersection,


       5        where every day there was an accident.  It may


       6        have been a little one, it may have been a


       7        fender-bender, but there was an accident every


       8        day at the preexisting, preWonderwood corridor


       9        intersection.


      10             Now -- and I -- and I'll tell you, we


      11        fought at the Wonderwood studies, at the


      12        phase III meetings where we met with JTA.  We


      13        did not like the whole idea of them cutting off


      14        our access.  We can no longer turn west out of


      15        our neighborhood.  In fact, most of the people


      16        that live along the roadway are forced to make


      17        U-turns to get around through the roadway.  It's


      18        part of life, of living on this section of


      19        Wonderwood.


      20             Everybody U-turns.  We've gotten used to


      21        it, we look for it, we watch out for it.  Making


      22        a U-turn at this intersection is not unusual; it


      23        happens every day, it happens hundreds of times


      24        every day.  It's a very safe intersection now.


      25             Access into the Gate station in the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        existing triangle land is no different than it


       2        was before, except now it's a protected turn


       3        in.  In the old intersection, cars had to cross


       4        over two lanes of traffic, and there were


       5        accidents that happened all the time going into


       6        the Gate station because traffic would back up


       7        and there would be fender-benders.  It's safer


       8        now.  Cars are protected turning in.  They don't


       9        have to cross traffic.  They -- everybody makes


      10        U-turns through there.


      11             When we went through the JTA studies and


      12        the Wonderwood, we asked them about this


      13        intersection; is this intersection going to be


      14        safe?  And the JTA assured us, yes, this is


      15        going to be a safe intersection, even with Gate


      16        in this location.  And I find it very, very hard


      17        to believe that Gate would knowingly build,


      18        design, and create an intersection that would


      19        open themselves up to a class-action lawsuit if


      20        it's proved after the fact that it's an unsafe


      21        intersection, especially since they told all of


      22        us it was safe at all the meetings.


      23             It simply is not a danger issue.  It simply


      24        is them wanting to move into our backyards.  And


      25        it is my backyard.  And I'll be honest with you,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        I live in the woods and I want to stay living in


       2        the woods.  That's why I've lived there for


       3        40 years.  And I really ask you, please do


       4        not -- do not vote for this, please oppose this,


       5        for our safety, for our neighborhood, for our


       6        tranquility.


       7             We appreciate it.  Thank you.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


       9             Dianne Wiles, followed by Richard Pierce.


      10             And I believe he's our last speaker unless


      11        I have some more cards waiting on me.


      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon.


      14             Dianne Wiles, 10663 Hemming Road,


      15        Jacksonville, Florida 32225.  Greater Arlington


      16        Civic Council vice president, and I also


      17        represent the Holly Oaks Swim Club on that


      18        council.


      19             I'm really shocked that I'm here again.  I


      20        think all of you, except for maybe one of you,


      21        were on this council when 2008-857 came before


      22        you.  It came through as a text amendment


      23        change, a land use change.  I can't understand


      24        why we're here as a PUD, basically CGC zoning


      25        going into low-density residential, but here we




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        are.


       2             I'm opposed to this property.


       3             I do use the Holly Oaks Swim Club.  My


       4        family is a member of that.  It is very close to


       5        this adjacent property.


       6             JTA constructs ponds and then, what I


       7        thought, turned them over to FDOT to maintain.


       8        I'm not sure why JTA is here today to rezone


       9        property, why they reconstructed this pond just


      10        for Gate.  I didn't know they were in the


      11        business of owning land.


      12             I passed out -- and I do not have any time


      13        to go over it.  I passed this around


      14        (indicating).  This is the actual right-of-way


      15        acquisition settlement.  I implore you to please


      16        read this.  This states why JTA and Gate is


      17        doing this and the little bit of the history of


      18        why they are doing it.


      19             If you read the -- if nothing else, the


      20        fiscal impact of why both sides win on this and


      21        then the neighborhood loses out.  We're talking


      22        to the tune of -- what it said back in 2007,


      23        $1.7 million in mitigation money, but it's laid


      24        out there.


      25             I wasn't really prepared to speak today, so




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        I'm a little -- jumping all over the place, but


       2        this is not a good idea.


       3             Since you all -- most of you claimed


       4        ex-parte and opened your doors to the applicant,


       5        I would ask you to open your doors to the


       6        neighborhood as well before City Council and get


       7        the true story behind this.  And it's very hard


       8        to talk about all this in three minutes and get


       9        your point across, especially with the nerves


      10        and everything.  So if somebody calls you and


      11        asks you to speak to them or 15 minutes of your


      12        time, I'd ask you to open your doors to them as


      13        you did with the applicants.


      14             Again, just read over this (indicating).  I


      15        really don't have much more to say -- oh, and


      16        with the trip generations -- they were talking


      17        about the safety and the traffic, back then we


      18        did a study.  It's going to increase the traffic


      19        by 300 percent at that intersection, so I don't


      20        really think that's a great idea, but -- thank


      21        you for your time.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      23             Ma'am, if you could hold on just a second,


      24        Mr. Davis has a question for you.


      25             MS. WILES:  Yes, sir.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. DAVIS:  Yes.  I just wanted to let you


       2        know that I'm more than welcome to have anybody


       3        from the community come by and see me at my


       4        office.


       5             MS. WILES:  I appreciate that.


       6             MR. DAVIS:  You can get that number on the


       7        COJ website.


       8             MS. WILES:  We know how to find you.


       9             MR. DAVIS:  You can find it and just come


      10        by and see me.  I'm more than happy to have


      11        people come by --


      12             MS. WILES:  Thank you.  I do appreciate


      13        that.


      14             I won't point out names, but there was a


      15        councilman that said this was a quasi-judicial


      16        and that they couldn't speak to anybody about


      17        it.  And my understanding -- if somebody can


      18        answer the question -- if it's quasi-judicial,


      19        can you talk to us?  You just have to claim


      20        ex-parte?


      21             MR. DAVIS:  Mr. Reingold.


      22             MR. REINGOLD:  You can meet with an


      23        applicant or an agent or a neighborhood person


      24        as long as you declare the ex-parte


      25        communication, when it happened, what did you




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        guys talk about, and who you met with --


       2             MR. DAVIS:  So, yeah, there's no problem


       3        with her coming by or somebody coming by and --


       4             MR. REINGOLD:  As long as it was disclosed


       5        at the City Council meeting who you met with,


       6        what you spoke about, and when you met.


       7             MR. DAVIS:  Okay.


       8             MS. WILES:  Thank you.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.


      10             The final speaker is Richard Pierce.  I'm


      11        sorry, the final speaker in opposition, and then


      12        we're going to give three minutes to the


      13        applicant to rebut.


      14             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, sir.


      16             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  All right.  My name is


      17        Richard Pierce.  I reside at 2752 Safe Shelter


      18        Drive West, Jacksonville, Florida 32225.


      19             I'm also here to speak for Estella Lane and


      20        William Lane, who also live at 10975 Challeux


      21        Drive South.  They regret that they are unable


      22        to attend the meeting tonight; however, they


      23        request that you do not construe their absence


      24        as a lack of opposition to the proposed


      25        rezoning.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We are from California, but decided to make


       2        Jacksonville our home in a -- and I was


       3        stationed at naval -- at the naval station


       4        Mayport as a JAG officer.  After leaving active


       5        duty, we decided to lay roots and make


       6        Jacksonville our home.  Once the predominant --


       7        one of the predominant reasons for doing so was


       8        because we loved our home and neighborhood.


       9             We were looking for a place to buy.  We


      10        fell in love with our neighborhood because it


      11        was so different from the cookie-cutter


      12        developments we had seen.  Our neighborhood was


      13        tranquil and beautiful, filled with trees,


      14        almost like a park.  However, after we moved in


      15        many things changed.  Most of the trees right


      16        behind our backyard that hid the view of the


      17        noises and the street were pulled by the JTA.


      18        We were also told that JTA had mistakenly pulled


      19        too many trees and we heard for months the


      20        constant banging and digging a hole for their


      21        retention pond as well as huge fires burning the


      22        pulled trees significantly affecting the quality


      23        of life.


      24             We absolute [sic] oppose the requested


      25        rezoning of a -- placing a 16-fueling-position




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        gas station.  This gas station will be in direct


       2        view of our home and our backyard.  It would


       3        completely change and would be inconsistent with


       4        the character of this beautiful neighborhood.


       5             We also have purchased -- we also purchased


       6        our home -- if we could see a gas station


       7        directly from the -- from the house and


       8        backyard.


       9             The gas station will also increase traffic


      10        coming in and out of the station on the street,


      11        which is where I often walk with my son from my


      12        house to go to the new, beautiful Buck Park.  It


      13        is our understanding that this gas station will


      14        be open until late in the evening and will serve


      15        alcohol.  If this is the case, there is an


      16        additional safety concerns [sic] relating to the


      17        people loitering in the retention pond area,


      18        which is literally about ten steps from our


      19        backyard with no fence.


      20             Furthermore, this subject of rezoning


      21        change will set a precedence and will set for


      22        commercial development of 30 residential


      23        properties and eight nodes on Wonderwood


      24        corridor.  We are not objecting to the station


      25        being rebuilt into the triangle.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             I also have a personal incident from a


       2        classmate of mine back when I -- I attended


       3        Duncan U. Fletcher High School.  He was stabbed


       4        multiple times at the gas station before it had


       5        closed for the evening.  He had walked up there


       6        with his girlfriend at the time and some


       7        loitering, men had actually started to shout


       8        vulgar things to his girlfriend, and he


       9        actually -- he began to argue with them and it


      10        turned physical and he was actually stabbed


      11        multiple times there.


      12             That's all I have.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


      14             MR. PIERCE:  Thank you.


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Mr. Hainline.


      16             MR. REINGOLD:  Mr. Chair.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.


      18             MR. REINGOLD:  Just before we get to the


      19        rebuttal, I just wanted to -- I think -- make it


      20        known, I believe I handed out -- or at least


      21        provided copies of -- to Mr. Hainline, or


      22        Merriane did, of all the documents that were


      23        submitted into the record, and it's my


      24        understanding that Mr. Hainline had also


      25        submitted a copy of your packet to, I believe,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        one of the -- or one of the proponents.


       2             I just wanted to make sure all the


       3        different sides had copies of all the different


       4        documents.


       5             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


       7             Go ahead, sir.


       8             MR. HAINLINE:  Mr. Chairman, the opponents


       9        in total had a much longer time.  I'm going to


      10        try and make it in three, but it may be more


      11        like four or five, but I'll do my best in


      12        rebuttal.


      13             When people are sincerely concerned about


      14        something and they speak very sincerely, it is


      15        moving, and we -- these folks have been


      16        courteous to us.  We hope we've been courteous


      17        to them.  And I know that it is -- that they


      18        very strongly and sincerely feel the things that


      19        they are saying.


      20             I must point out, though, that this is a


      21        quasi-judicial proceeding and that your job is


      22        to base your decision on the evidence which is


      23        before you, competent and substantial evidence.


      24             There were some things that were said very


      25        sincerely and strongly, but which were simply




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        not at all true.  One statement that was made


       2        was that this station would result in a


       3        300 percent increase in traffic at the


       4        intersection.  That is absolutely not true.


       5             As the evidence -- the traffic study that


       6        we presented to you, and the Planning Department


       7        has reviewed, shows about a two percent increase


       8        in traffic at the -- or, rather, that this


       9        station will contribute about two percent of the


      10        traffic at this intersection.


      11             Twenty thousand cars go through there a


      12        day.  Our contribution to that or -- of the new


      13        station would be 616 cars once you net out the


      14        existing station and the other things that are


      15        allowed in any competent traffic study.


      16             So folks say things sincerely, but that


      17        doesn't mean that they are fact, and I ask that


      18        you understand that.


      19             Several said that this will back up against


      20        their house.  I understand that when people


      21        perceive a large JTA pond, a seven-acre site,


      22        they view that entire seven-acre site as backing


      23        up against their house.  But if look at tab 4 in


      24        your book, you will see that the distances we


      25        are talking about in the context of other PUDs




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and commercial PUDs that you've seen, the


       2        distances we're talking about in most of those


       3        instances across the pond, there's about 310 to


       4        350 feet of distance between the back of the


       5        station and those homes.


       6             So please listen to the evidence that is


       7        presented in your Planning Department report and


       8        what you have heard.


       9             I want to talk for a moment about the


      10        comprehensive plan and the Wonderwood Corridor


      11        Study.  This council relies on two entities to


      12        provide it with professional advice as to the


      13        comprehensive plan, and here, as -- also as to


      14        the Wonderwood Corridor Study.  Those two bodies


      15        are the Planning Department and the Planning


      16        Commission.


      17             The Planning Department tells you in its


      18        report that we are consistent with the


      19        comprehensive plan and that we are consistent


      20        with the concepts in the Wonderwood Corridor


      21        Study.  There was much discussion of that at the


      22        Planning Commission meeting and there is much


      23        discussion of that in your Planning Department


      24        report.


      25             There actually is only one entity that,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        under law, has the authority to make opinions on


       2        what is consistent with the comprehensive plan


       3        and what is consistent with the Wonderwood


       4        Corridor Study, and that is the Planning


       5        Department and the planning director.  They have


       6        all told you, after careful study, that we are


       7        consistent with the comprehensive plan and we


       8        are consistent with the Wonderwood Corridor


       9        Study.


      10             Be happy to answer any specific questions


      11        on those issues.


      12             Two more brief points, Mr. Chairman.


      13             I do want to point out that the new site,


      14        that -- the proposed retail square footage at


      15        the new site is 4,900 square feet.  At the old


      16        site the total is 6,800 square feet.  So there


      17        is a decrease in the total retail square footage


      18        moving from the old site, which will be


      19        demolished and donated to the City, to the new


      20        site.  As the Planning staff testified at the


      21        Planning Commission, that the decrease in the


      22        retail serves as an offset to the increase in


      23        the number of pumps.  So that's the offset,


      24        decrease in retail square footage -- yes, there


      25        is an increase in the pumps, but, again, it




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        presents no traffic capacity issues for that


       2        intersection.


       3             The final thing that I will say is there's


       4        been a lot of talk about the safety -- traffic


       5        safety and pedestrian safety, old site versus


       6        new site.  I want to start with the new site.


       7             The new site, when it comes to vehicles, is


       8        right at the intersection.  It will be a


       9        fully-signalized intersection with the access


      10        point -- the entrance right into the


      11        intersection.  When the light turns green, the


      12        cars will go.  When the light turns red, they'll


      13        stop.


      14             The difference between that and the


      15        existing site is that the existing site, the


      16        accesses are not far enough from the


      17        intersection, but they're not at the


      18        intersection.  And what your Planning Department


      19        has said -- and I want to read from your staff's


      20        planning report, "The accesses at the existing


      21        site result in the creation of driveway


      22        conflicts and poses serious safety concerns for


      23        access."  Serious safety concerns at the


      24        existing site solved by the direct access at the


      25        new site.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Pedestrian is the last thing -- pedestrian


       2        safety.  At the new site, there's the full


       3        pedestrian crosswalk with the little signals,


       4        with the countdowns that say, now you can walk.


       5        When somebody is walking down that sidewalk,


       6        they'll be right at the signal, they'll see the


       7        little pedestrian countdown crosswalk signal


       8        that tells them when they can walk and not walk,


       9        and they will be at a signal.  The cars coming


      10        and going will look up at a green and red light


      11        and decide they'll go at the green and stop at


      12        the red.


      13             At the old station, the existing station


      14        site, no pedestrian crosswalk signals, no


      15        signalization, and the accesses are too close to


      16        the intersection, so there's all these traffic


      17        conflicts that create the safety problems the


      18        Planning Department was talking about.


      19             We ask that you please look at the


      20        evidence, the report of your Planning


      21        Department, the report of the Planning


      22        Commission after they spent four hours listening


      23        to it, and approved this PUD.


      24             Thank you very much.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Anybody have any questions?




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Hainline, I have a


       3        question for you.


       4             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm looking at one of these


       6        traffic scale images.  To the -- I don't know


       7        what direction that is, but to the left of the


       8        driveway entering into the proposed site,


       9        there's a double line that goes around, close to


      10        the homes at Challeux, what is that double


      11        line?


      12             MR. HAINLINE:  Thank you for asking that


      13        question.


      14             That -- in order to show these dimensions,


      15        Mr. Wilson used a previous drawing.  That double


      16        line was something that was proposed in a


      17        previous iteration of this.  Some folks had


      18        asked that there be a sidewalk that runs around


      19        the back of the station.  Since then --


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  It's been eliminated?


      21             MR. HAINLINE:  -- the consensus was, please


      22        eliminate that sidewalk.  It could be a haven


      23        for --


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      25             MR. HAINLINE:  -- things, so it's been




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        deleted.


       2             Thank you.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.


       4             Hold on just a second.  I believe we have


       5        council members that have questions.


       6             Mr. Crescimbeni first and then we'll go to


       7        Mr. Bishop and --


       8             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       9             Just a quick question for Mr. Hainline.


      10             Mr. Hainline, backing up to your square


      11        footage comments --


      12             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir.


      13             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  -- what's the total


      14        square footage of the new facility?


      15             MR. HAINLINE:  It's about 4,900 square


      16        feet.


      17             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      18             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  (Inaudible.)


      19             MR. HAINLINE:  Say again?


      20             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  The proposed facility is


      21        what, about 4,900 --


      22             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      23             MR. HAINLINE:  About 4,900 square feet.


      24             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And that just includes --


      25        is that just the footprint of the convenience




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        store or do you measure any of the --


       2             MR. HAINLINE:  It's enclosed -- both


       3        measurements are enclosed -- we're apples to


       4        apples.  Both measurements are enclosed square


       5        footage.  So the new station, enclosed square


       6        footage, about 4,900.  At the existing site, the


       7        station plus the small strip center there, which


       8        both would be closed, is a total of, enclosed,


       9        6,800 square feet, 6,795.


      10             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Well, you're getting to


      11        my next questions, then, because I wanted to


      12        make sure that we weren't talking about station


      13        to station, so -- actually, the 6,800 square


      14        feet is the total shopping center, correct?


      15             MR. HAINLINE:  Which will be closed, yes,


      16        sir.


      17             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And what's the footprint


      18        of the -- or what's the square footage of the


      19        station portion at the current --


      20             MR. HAINLINE:  The station portion of that


      21        is about -- is about -- is 2,640.


      22             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  So the station is


      23        increasing from -- the station itself would be


      24        increasing from 2,640 to 4,900; is that a fact?


      25        I mean --




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. HAINLINE:  That is -- of the


       2        convenience store itself, yes, sir.  The total


       3        retail square footage from the old site to the


       4        new is reduced by the amount that I said.


       5             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  But the old location has


       6        2,640, new location is 4,900?


       7             MR. HAINLINE:  Of the gas


       8        station/convenience store, yes.  But the old


       9        retail space at the old center is also being


      10        closed and torn down when -- if and when the new


      11        station opens.


      12             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Bishop.


      14             MR. BISHOP:  Okay, Mr. Chairman.


      15             Mr. Hainline, just a quick question.  You


      16        made a very definitive statement earlier about


      17        the Planning Department being the only legal


      18        authority to interpret the comprehensive plan


      19        and, therefore, their recommendations as such


      20        should carry tremendous weight.  Could you


      21        elaborate on that a little bit?  I guess from


      22        that, I would infer that you're saying that we


      23        have to follow their direction and we don't have


      24        any choice; is that --


      25             MR. HAINLINE:  No, sir.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. BISHOP:  -- a fair statement?


       2             MR. HAINLINE:  No, sir.  I am absolutely


       3        not saying that --


       4             MR. BISHOP:  Thank you.


       5             MR. HAINLINE:  -- but I am saying that the


       6        law, your comprehensive plan, says there's one


       7        entity that can interpret the comprehensive


       8        plan, which is the Planning Department and the


       9        planning director.  And if you look at the


      10        Wonderwood Corridor Study ordinance, it says


      11        there's one entity that can interpret that,


      12        which is the Planning Department, planning


      13        director.


      14             MR. BISHOP:  Have you ever opposed a


      15        Planning Department decision?


      16             MR. HAINLINE:  Have I ever what?


      17             MR. BISHOP:  Opposed a Planning Department


      18        decision.


      19             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, absolutely.


      20             MR. BISHOP:  So that would lead me to think


      21        that maybe they don't necessarily have the last


      22        word on the thing.


      23             MR. HAINLINE:  I don't think that I've


      24        ever -- your question to me was if I ever


      25        opposed one of their positions.  Yes.  Have I




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        ever opposed one of their interpretations of the


       2        comprehensive plan or the Wonderwood Corridor


       3        Study?  I can't think --


       4             MR. BISHOP:  I didn't ask that question.  I


       5        asked if you had ever opposed their decision in


       6        a sense -- I'm assuming, then, that you would


       7        think they would be incorrect?


       8             MR. HAINLINE:  On a matter where their view


       9        is at the same level as everybody else's, sure.


      10        On matters where they have the authority to


      11        interpret something, I can't think of a time


      12        when I have disagreed with that.


      13             When they are given the authority by the


      14        code to interpret something and be the


      15        interpreter, I usually try and make sure I'm in


      16        agreement with them.


      17             MR. BISHOP:  So you've never been on the


      18        losing side of the Planning Department's


      19        decision or contrary to their opinion on any of


      20        the people that you've represented?


      21             MR. HAINLINE:  I'm not quite -- I mean, I


      22        wish I could understand what you're trying to


      23        get me to say.


      24             I mean, certainly I have disagreed with the


      25        Planning Department's views from time to time.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        I can't cite to you an instance where I have


       2        disagreed with their authorized interpretation


       3        of the comprehensive plan or a study such as the


       4        Wonderwood Corridor Study --


       5             MR. BISHOP:  Let me -- let me simplify.


       6             Have you ever advocated that a decision of


       7        the Planning Department not be followed by LUZ?


       8             MR. HAINLINE:  It's been at least 15 years


       9        since I've done that, but I'm sure somebody


      10        could find one somewhere back 15 years ago,


      11        but --


      12             MR. BISHOP:  Thank you very much.


      13             MR. HAINLINE:  -- since the Planning


      14        Department has started doing the kind of


      15        analyses they've been doing for some years, no.


      16        I make it -- I make it a point to try and be on


      17        the same side.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that it, Mr. Bishop?


      19             MR. BISHOP:  Yes.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Brown.


      21             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  Through the Chair to


      22        Mr. Hainline, if you could briefly elaborate on


      23        the rezoning efforts that would take place with


      24        the current properties if we move forward in


      25        approving this particular location.  I know that




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        you mentioned that it would be some form of


       2        conservation?


       3             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes.


       4             MR. BROWN:  So are we looking at, of


       5        course, tearing the building down and then


       6        placing trees out there?


       7             If you could just -- because I do know that


       8        oftentimes if we don't follow through, we leave


       9        these blighted buildings there.  You know, I


      10        know we can't afford to have two service


      11        stations in the area, so I do have a concern.


      12             That's just one of my concerns and then


      13        I'll ask you a few other questions.


      14             MR. HAINLINE:  Yes, sir.


      15             If you look at our application -- and I


      16        could go back and get a copy and cite the


      17        specific paragraph, but we wrote into our


      18        application that when -- I think it says when a


      19        certificate of occupancy is issued for the


      20        station at its new site that the owners of the


      21        existing site will demolish all the structures


      22        on there, will provide the necessary assurances


      23        to the City that the site is clean


      24        environmentally, and will prepare the site as a


      25        greenspace site.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             And following those things, demolition,


       2        ensuring to the City that it's environmentally


       3        clean, making it a greenscape site, they will --


       4        the owners of that existing site will donate it


       5        to the City and will consent to that property


       6        being placed in the conservation, CSV, land use


       7        category.  So it will be donated to the City as


       8        greenspace, park, open space, whatever you call


       9        it.  That was something that had been worked out


      10        a year or two ago, and we're sticking with that


      11        commitment.  We view that as being binding on


      12        us.


      13             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  Great.


      14             My second question is that if we're not --


      15        if you're not successful today, what will happen


      16        with the current property?  Will you continue to


      17        keep it open and operate it at its present


      18        condition?  Would there be future plans to close


      19        that particular location?


      20             MR. HAINLINE:  The station is closed now.


      21             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  I got you.


      22             MR. HAINLINE:  If -- Ken and I have talked


      23        about this.  If you look around the city as to


      24        what has happened to older gas


      25        station/convenience store sites when the gas




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        station company goes away, they usually become


       2        like convenience stores with an emphasis on --


       3        Gate would almost certainly sell the property.


       4        They usually become convenience stores with an


       5        emphasis on beer and cigarettes and lottery


       6        tickets and that --


       7             MR. BROWN:  And, colleagues, I can share


       8        with you what happens when companies like Gate,


       9        BP leave the community.  And it's not a


      10        beautiful site, what happens with those


      11        locations, I could tell you that.  The dollars


      12        are not spent well and folks come in and buy


      13        those places and revolve back in the community.


      14        I think that would definitely create a sore spot


      15        in the community, if you sell that and a local


      16        person come in and turn it to a convenience


      17        store.  It's just not a beautiful site, and so I


      18        will definitely caution this community about


      19        allowing that to take place.


      20             My last concern is regarding the safety of


      21        the children.  And you gave a very clear picture


      22        that there will be a crosswalk directly in front


      23        of the store, and I just want to make sure that


      24        we're on point.


      25             And I also wanted to ask, currently have




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        there been any accidents with children there to


       2        make this a real concern?  Because I -- even


       3        with the old location, do we have any


       4        information regarding accidents with pedestrians


       5        in that area currently that you know of?


       6             MR. HAINLINE:  Well, I think there were two


       7        questions there.  Let me try and answer them


       8        both.


       9             The last piece of paper, under tab 2, it


      10        says Gate Gas Station, and it's this colored


      11        rendering of what the pedestrian crosswalk will


      12        look like.  That's the closed pedestrian


      13        crosswalk at the new station, and the important


      14        thing to see there is not only the crosswalk


      15        stamping on the street, but the signals --


      16        you'll see there, there's a point to a


      17        pedestrian signal head, and that -- that's,


      18        again, where the pedestrians, as they walk up to


      19        the entrance, there will be one of those little


      20        countdown things with the little person walking


      21        on it and you can see when you're supposed to


      22        walk and when you're not supposed to walk.


      23        That's at the new station.  There's nothing like


      24        that at the existing site.


      25             I can't cite -- I cannot cite to you any




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        accident information either before or after the


       2        Gate station at the existing site closed down.


       3        Maybe Mr. Wilson -- I don't know, Ken, do you


       4        have anything like that?


       5             MR. WILSON:  I'm not aware of any.


       6             MR. HAINLINE:  Okay.  The only thing we


       7        have is the opinions of your planning staff and


       8        of our traffic engineer as to the -- as to the


       9        safety conditions there.


      10             MR. BROWN:  No further questions.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Anyone else have any


      12        questions for Mr. Hainline in the public


      13        hearing?


      14             Mr. Crescimbeni.


      15             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      16             One other question about the shopping


      17        center, through the Chair to Mr. Hainline.


      18             Mr. Hainline, who owns the currently-closed


      19        station?


      20             MR. HAINLINE:  Gate owns the


      21        currently-closed station.


      22             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Who owns the


      23        currently-closed contiguous properties next door


      24        to the station --


      25             MR. HAINLINE:  Jacksonville Transportation




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Authority.


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  And can you just


       3        explain a little bit to me about how you're


       4        getting credit for a reduction of somebody


       5        else's property?  Explain that a little bit more


       6        for me.


       7             MR. HAINLINE:  I will attempt to.


       8             I am here as the agent -- authorized agent


       9        for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.


      10        One of the application documents is an


      11        authorization letter there.  I'm also here,


      12        obviously, as the representative of Gate


      13        Petroleum.  So I'm representing both entities.


      14             Both entities have agreed with each other


      15        and in discussions I've had with them -- and in


      16        this zoning application -- I mean, it's in the


      17        zoning application that if this is approved and


      18        the Gate station relocates, that every enclosed


      19        square footage on Gate and JTA will be


      20        demolished.  So both Gate and JTA are bound by


      21        that demolition condition, and so it's not so


      22        much -- I mean, I guess I don't look at it as


      23        Gate getting credit for something.  What I look


      24        at is a before and after situation, and the


      25        before is the -- whatever the numbers were I




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        gave to you, the 60-some-odd-hundred versus


       2        after the 4,900.


       3             So that -- that's how I would explain it to


       4        you.


       5             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And, I guess, just


       6        through the Chair to legal, Mr. Reingold, that's


       7        permissible, that -- as long as he's


       8        representing both landowners, that in one


       9        location they can use the credit towards a


      10        second location providing he represents the new


      11        landowner as well, which in this case happens to


      12        be the same --


      13             MR. REINGOLD:  Well, they have put in their


      14        application that they -- that that other piece


      15        of property would be -- within 60 days of a


      16        certificate of occupancy, they would seek to


      17        move it to CSV.  If that did not happen, then


      18        they would be in violation of their PUD, and


      19        thus it would be an enforcement matter of their


      20        PUD.


      21             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Well, I guess the


      22        question was -- I just want you to verify -- not


      23        that I distrust Mr. Hainline, but -- he has the


      24        ability to garner credits from the Planning


      25        Department because he represents both property




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        owners, right?  I think that's what I heard him


       2        say.


       3             MR. HAINLINE:  No.


       4             MR. REINGOLD:  I guess I -- what do you


       5        mean by the word "credits," sir?  I guess that's


       6        where I'm getting stuck.


       7             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Well, he talked about


       8        earlier that he was reducing the footprint from


       9        6,800 to 4,900 and there was some consideration


      10        or some benefit achieved by that reduction.  I


      11        just want to legally clarify that he has the


      12        ability to do that because he represents both


      13        property owners?  I mean, I'm just -- I just


      14        want to make sure that's --


      15             MR. HAINLINE:  May I attempt to clarify?


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Crescimbeni, would you


      17        like to --


      18             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  It's up to the Chair.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, sir.


      20             MR. HAINLINE:  Gate doesn't need any,


      21        quote, credits.  It hasn't asked for any, quote,


      22        credits.  It isn't getting any credits.


      23             The comparison that I was making was a


      24        before and after picture of the rezoning.


      25             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  Maybe I




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        misunderstood.  I thought I heard you say that


       2        there was some benefit you achieved from the


       3        Planning Department towards an approval because


       4        of the reduction in square footage.  Did I


       5        misunderstand?


       6             MR. HAINLINE:  What I said was -- is that


       7        at the Planning Commission meeting, when the


       8        question was raised about an increase in the


       9        number of pumps and the traffic caused by that


      10        or the -- whatever, and the decrease in the


      11        retail, is that -- how does that relate to each


      12        other and -- how do those relate to each other,


      13        and the planning staff's comment was that at


      14        least in part it is an offset.


      15             Now, there was nothing mathematical about


      16        it.  There -- we, again -- we don't --


      17             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  And that's what I


      18        understood you to say.  I guess my question --


      19        and maybe I'm not asking it correctly, but I


      20        just -- my question was -- I just want to make


      21        sure that -- in order to get that offset, that


      22        you have the legal ability to do so --


      23             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      24             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  -- and I'm asking --


      25        trying to ask Mr. Reingold -- I'm guessing you




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        have that legal ability because you represent


       2        both --


       3             MR. HAINLINE:  I'm --


       4             (Simultaneous speaking.)


       5             MR. HAINLINE:  There's an agent


       6        authorization.  I'm here to -- with the ability


       7        to bind the JTA, and I certainly have the


       8        ability to bind Gate Petroleum, and those are


       9        the applicants here in this rezoning --


      10             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Well --


      11             MR. HAINLINE:  -- and the owners of that


      12        property.


      13             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  If he can't answer it


      14        tonight, I'll get with him and maybe he can


      15        answer it down the road.


      16             Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Crescimbeni, if I could


      18        take a stab at this.


      19             I'm guessing that what you're asking is, if


      20        the square footage amounts somehow fed into the


      21        traffic counts, because they're saying that --


      22        Mr. Hainline was giving traffic numbers saying


      23        that the number of trips on the new would only


      24        be two percent more than the last; is that -- is


      25        that what you're getting at?  Did the Planning




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Department take into consideration square


       2        footages and traffic counts; is that where


       3        you're going?


       4             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Well, somebody must have


       5        taken that into consideration because of the


       6        word "offset" and -- I mean, it sounded like


       7        somebody along the line --


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Because I'd be --


       9             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  -- agreed to the fact


      10        that the increase -- or the decrease in the


      11        retail square footage kind of offset the


      12        increase in the number of pumps, and that's


      13        fine.  I just want to make sure that, when


      14        you're considering that, that it's all legal


      15        because we have different property owners.


      16             I mean, I think Mr. Hainline said that he


      17        had 2,640 square feet that he was tearing down,


      18        but somebody else had the difference of 6,800


      19        and 2,640, so that would be 4,160 square feet,


      20        and I just want to make sure that it's -- that


      21        his representation of both owners makes that


      22        possible just for the record.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.


      24             Mr. Reingold.


      25             MR. REINGOLD:  I've got in the file an




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        agent authorization letter signed by Michael


       2        Blalock, the executive director of JTA,


       3        authorizing Mr. Hainline to represent JTA in


       4        this matter.  And, obviously, we've got Ken


       5        Wilson from Gate Petroleum here today.  So I


       6        think all the entities have authorized


       7        Mr. Hainline to sort of represent them in this


       8        application.  I just want to make that clear.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, if there's no


      10        further questions of any speakers, I will close


      11        the public hearing and we can go on about


      12        debate.


      13             I'll close the public hearing.


      14             Mr. Brown.


      15             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  Through the Chair to


      16        Planning, what I would like to have happen, if


      17        you could, just cite some of the examples of the


      18        current zoning possibilities in the event the


      19        building is sold.  What are some of the


      20        possibilities that could be used at this


      21        particular site as it stands right now?


      22             Just a few of the sites because I -- I


      23        really think that we do not look at things like


      24        this when we are making decisions of moving


      25        locations and leaving buildings in its current




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        posture, and so I -- I would like just a few


       2        examples, and then I'll finish with my -- I'll


       3        follow up with my concerns with this.


       4             Go ahead.


       5             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.


       6             Through the Chair to Councilman Brown, the


       7        triangle site, as it is zoned right now, is


       8        zoned commercial neighborhood.  It allows for


       9        medical offices, clinics, dental offices,


      10        professional business offices.  It also allows


      11        for multifamily development which would be


      12        integrated with a commercial neighborhood use on


      13        the ground floor.  It allows for retail sales


      14        and service establishments in one structure up


      15        to 40,000 square feet, service establishments,


      16        restaurants, banks, libraries, museums, retail


      17        sale of beer and wine in sealed containers for


      18        off-premises consumption by right, employment


      19        offices, essential services, churches.


      20             Some of the uses by exception, you're


      21        looking at, again, the retail sale of beer and


      22        wine, retail sale and service of all alcoholic


      23        beverages, you have outside sale and service in


      24        conjunction with a restaurant.  Drive-through


      25        facilities would be permitted through the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        exception process.  In addition, car washes and


       2        animal boarding areas as well and day care


       3        centers.


       4             MR. BROWN:  Thank you, sir.


       5             And if and when it's zoned CSV, that would


       6        be its only use at that time, correct?


       7             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.  Conservation


       8        is very restricted.


       9             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  My point that I'm trying


      10        to make, and I really need my colleagues and


      11        even the neighbors -- I can tell you what


      12        happened with buildings like this.  You know,


      13        and I admire folks coming, and -- but I


      14        really -- and I was going to ask the question


      15        earlier about the number of meetings that y'all


      16        have had with the petitioner here tonight.


      17             I fight constantly with buildings like the


      18        one that you have in your community right now,


      19        and so I would definitely ask that you be very


      20        cognizant of the fact that you may get worse.


      21        And when I look at this design and just think


      22        about what could be, you know, I -- I just send


      23        out warnings to everyone because something zoned


      24        CSV is definitely better than leaving it out


      25        there in commercial neighborhood.  You may not




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        want a car wash at that area, but I can tell you


       2        that there's a possibility that one day a car


       3        wash will come.


       4             Thank you.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Bishop.


       6             MR. BISHOP:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       7             We've heard a lot of stuff here tonight


       8        from both sides, a lot of good information.  At


       9        the end of it, although, what I -- what comes


      10        back to my mind is a paraphrase of something


      11        that Yogi Berra said, something about deja vu


      12        all over again.


      13             I don't know that even -- after hearing all


      14        of this again, I don't know that I've heard


      15        anything different than we heard a year ago.


      16        And it's -- and by looking at all the


      17        information that's been submitted by the


      18        applicant and the neighbors, it's the same thing


      19        that this council defeated resoundingly a year


      20        ago, and I haven't seen anything new here.  To


      21        me, it's all the same.


      22             Several things have been discussed about


      23        safety of pedestrians and traffic movements and


      24        why this site is better than the other one.  I


      25        can tell you, though, from what I see by driving




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that road, right now there's nothing there.


       2        It's a continuous sidewalk and there's no safety


       3        concern of people walking from the neighborhood


       4        to the Holly Oaks Swim Club or Buck Park.  If


       5        you put a Gate station in there, now pedestrians


       6        will have to cross, according to what it looks


       7        like on the site plan, the equivalent of a


       8        three-lane road to get from one side to the


       9        other.  That's how wide that is if you look at


      10        the graphic.  To me, that's not safer than a


      11        contiguous sidewalk at all.


      12             We talk about -- we hear from the Planning


      13        Department that this site meets the requirement


      14        of a node and it is not considered strip


      15        commercial for a variety of reasons, and they've


      16        elaborated on that and they've written all this


      17        stuff out.


      18             My 30 years in the business -- I'm an


      19        architect and this is what I do for a living.


      20        If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a


      21        duck, it's a duck, guys.  This is spot zoning.


      22        It's got it written all over it.  You do not


      23        have any commercial in that area from the


      24        Fort Caroline/Merrill Road intersection all the


      25        way down to the other side of District 2 park,




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Ed Austin Park.  There's nothing there.  You put


       2        one in there, that's spot zoning.  You can call


       3        it whatever you want, but that's what it is.


       4             Calling this a node -- the traditional


       5        definition of a node is an intersection.  This


       6        is not an intersection by any classic


       7        definition.  You can call it that if you want to


       8        because it's two arterials coming together, but


       9        it's not an intersection.  It's a T-bone.


      10             We have also heard that Wonderwood is


      11        defined as a transportation corridor.  That


      12        implies that it's continuous.  And if you drive


      13        that area and you look at how that intersection


      14        goes together, it's a very small stub of


      15        Fort Caroline that comes into Fort Caroline.


      16             Fort Caroline is the predominant corridor


      17        there.  Fort Caroline just happens to come in


      18        there because it was defined that way when they


      19        redid the intersection.  The traffic volumes


      20        coming in on that are a fraction of what goes on


      21        Wonderwood.  So what we have, in effect, is a


      22        node by creative definition in my book.  That's


      23        what I'm seeing when I hear everything that's


      24        talked about.


      25             So you can define it that way if you choose




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to, but, in fact, it isn't.  And, therefore, I


       2        believe it defeats the spirit of what the


       3        Wonderwood Corridor Study says, which is no


       4        strip commercial and no commercial intrusion on


       5        that section of the area.  And, therefore, to


       6        me, the -- I understand what Mr. Hainline said


       7        about the Planning Department being the defining


       8        logical authority with respect to


       9        interpretation, but I respectfully say in my


      10        experience they're wrong.


      11             And for those basic reasons, this is --


      12        this is just not the right thing to do.


      13             And the commercial section in the middle of


      14        the park -- or -- well, what's been defined as


      15        either a park if it goes through, but the


      16        triangle site, there's plenty of land to put a


      17        viable commercial site on there.  There's a


      18        viable commercial business on that site right


      19        now, a perfectly good local seafood place that


      20        has a lot of business.  It's not going anywhere


      21        unless they're forced out.  So one of the


      22        consequences of this particular proposal would


      23        be to kick those people out.  I would suggest to


      24        you that that's not a good idea because that is


      25        a perfectly good, viable local business that is




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        supported by the community.  So we're going to


       2        tell them that they have to go away.  I don't


       3        think that's the right thing to do either.


       4             Basically, I think that pretty much


       5        summarizes it.  We've heard all of the arguments


       6        back and forth, but at the end of the day I


       7        haven't heard anything that tells me this is a


       8        good idea, and it tells me there's lots of


       9        reasons why it's a bad idea.


      10             And I guess I'll just close with one last


      11        comment.  Mr. Robinson made the comment about


      12        the aesthetic value of the fake bricks that


      13        would go across that driveway.  Drive down


      14        Riverside Avenue, they haven't been out that


      15        long, they're already coming out.


      16             Thank you.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Bishop.


      18             Mr. Jones.


      19             MR. JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      20             I just had a question for somebody in


      21        Planning.  If this zoning is approved, would


      22        that necessarily mean that at another node down


      23        the road, that they could get a commercial


      24        zoning?  I've heard that, and that -- I would


      25        certainly not want to set a precedence whereby




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        we open up that door for additional commercial


       2        development on that side of Wonderwood.


       3             MR. KELLY:  Thank you.


       4             Through the Chair to Councilman Jones, the


       5        study is very specific in terms of the locations


       6        that it calls for areas of commercial


       7        concentration.  There are three designated


       8        intersections along the corridor that are


       9        referenced in the study.  So anything that's


      10        proposed outside of those nodal intersections,


      11        those designated -- what they call the "areas of


      12        critical concern" in the study would be a spot


      13        zoning and would be a strip development, but the


      14        study specifically calls, again, for the -- to


      15        reevaluate and update the zoning specifically


      16        within this segment, this area of commercial


      17        concentration, that is Fort Caroline and


      18        McCormick.  I'd reference page 15 of that


      19        study.


      20             So I guess the idea that, you know, this is


      21        going to set a precedent and lead to strip


      22        development -- two real reasons why that won't


      23        happen.  The study itself identifies the three


      24        areas of critical concern that are designated


      25        commercial areas of concentration.  And from a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        practical standpoint, you've got, for the most


       2        part, developed-out residential development


       3        along the rest of the corridor.  So the fact


       4        that -- in order to do something, one, it -- you


       5        would be looking at land use changes in


       6        combination with rezonings on parcels that


       7        aren't suitable in size to support that kind of


       8        development in the other areas, outside of these


       9        commercial node areas.


      10             MR. JONES:  Was this location identified as


      11        one of those commercial nodes?


      12             MR. KELLY:  Yes, it was.


      13             MR. JONES:  The Planning Commission


      14        approved the rezoning with certain conditions?


      15             MR. KELLY:  Yes, that's correct.  They've


      16        effectively added on the hours of operation --


      17        we'll go back over to the memo.


      18             MR. JONES:  Let me ask this too while


      19        you're looking at it.  Was there any agreement


      20        or understanding that they would be allowed


      21        to -- I know that some of this is coming in


      22        after the fact because I think this was


      23        initiated under the previous council.  Was there


      24        any type of agreement that they would move


      25        across the street once Wonderwood was




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        completed?


       2             MR. KELLY:  The study was originally done


       3        in 2002.  And, at that point, it was not known


       4        to the extent that the realignment -- and the


       5        impacts of that realignment that it would have


       6        on that intersection.


       7             There was no agreement for it to relocate


       8        across the street.  The net effect, from our


       9        perspective, is that we're not, you know,


      10        increasing to the extent -- we're keeping it at


      11        the node.  We're not expanding it beyond -- it's


      12        the realignment that was done basically after


      13        the fact, after the study was written in 2002.


      14        It didn't foresee the effects of the realignment


      15        on the triangular parcel with that in terms of


      16        access and future access and means to that


      17        triangular piece from an access management


      18        standpoint, a safety standpoint.


      19             Again, this is a signalized intersection.


      20        This is exactly where you want to have your


      21        access point.


      22             MR. JONES:  Could you finish with the


      23        other -- the conditions that we talked about on


      24        the -- by the Planning Department --


      25             MR. KELLY:  Certainly.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JONES:  -- Planning Commission?


       2             MR. KELLY:  The Planning Commission added


       3        no outdoor speakers shall -- basically shall be


       4        prohibited, except otherwise required by the


       5        fire code.  The hours of operation shall be


       6        limited from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m., and then no


       7        deliveries shall occur before 7 a.m. or after


       8        7 p.m.  And they modified some of the language


       9        that the Department initially had added in terms


      10        of the condition for additional screening and


      11        buffering which required a masonry wall to the


      12        west of the five westerly parking spaces.  That


      13        was for headlight, potential trespass, but I


      14        think -- you know, we're more than satisfied


      15        with ultimately the buildout of that security


      16        fence with that vegetated screen kind of grown


      17        in there and the 50-foot buffer and the


      18        preservation of the trees within that buffer, so


      19        it -- it just further enhances that.


      20             MR. JONES:  One last question,


      21        Mr. Chairman, and that is, at the current


      22        site -- could they build the type of station


      23        they're proposing on the current site?


      24             MR. KELLY:  The -- well, one, it would be


      25        conventional zoning, so what they're proposing




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        now with all the buffers and with the lighting


       2        and the best practices that are incorporated


       3        into this plan would not be required as a matter


       4        of right on that site.


       5             Could they be able to do it?  I'm sure you


       6        could engineer -- it's a


       7        one-point-something-acre -- 1.3-acre site, I


       8        believe.  There was some right-of-way takings


       9        which, you know, severely had an effect on the


      10        potential for redevelopment because it narrowed


      11        the width of the lot, which eliminated any kind


      12        of access whatsoever to the portion of the


      13        Fort Caroline right-of-way, and there's -- even


      14        if there was access there, you'd end up with,


      15        you know, stacking and turn lane queuing


      16        basically that would end up out into the middle


      17        of the intersections, and so what --


      18             Mr. Robinson kind of explained this whole


      19        circuitous movements in trying to access the


      20        parcel with everything being really a one-way


      21        street through here.  You have -- you know,


      22        Fort Caroline westbound is now down to a one-way


      23        westbound, and then the McCormick extension is


      24        divided, so you've got a one-way westbound


      25        there.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             So the amount of traffic movements and


       2        crossing and U-turns across three lanes of


       3        traffic to get into an entrance to a gas


       4        station, I mean, in our view, that's -- that's,


       5        you know, creating an unsafe situation.


       6             MR. JONES:  Thank you.  I appreciate it.


       7             Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  Council members, I failed to


       9        get us in a proper posture to vote on this


      10        bill.  We still have an amendment.  Can I have


      11        somebody make a motion on the amendment?


      12             MR. DAVIS:  Move the amendment.


      13             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a second


      15        on the amendment.  All in favor of the


      16        amendment --


      17             MR. DAVIS:  (Inaudible.)


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.  You want to go over


      19        it?


      20             MR. DAVIS:  (Inaudible.)


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  There's nothing that we


      22        haven't heard yet --


      23             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.  It was the


      24        conditions initially read into the record


      25        earlier.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Everybody okay with


       2        that?


       3             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (Nod heads.)


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  All in favor of


       5        the amendment signify by saying aye.


       6             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.


       8             Need a motion.


       9             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill as amended.


      10             MR. JONES:  Second.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion and second on the


      12        bill as amended.


      13             Anyone else need to speak?


      14             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  I need to ask


      16        one question.


      17             Mr. Kelly or Mr. Crofts, when were the road


      18        changes planned, all the Wonderwood changes?


      19             MR. KELLY:  Wonderwood probably goes back


      20        to the '70s, I think.  Ultimately, the -- I can


      21        defer to John on that.


      22             MR. CROFTS:  The corridor itself was


      23        planned -- it goes back to the 1990 plan


      24        actually.  It goes all the way from Fort


      25        Caroline all the way in, but this was on the




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        eastern leg of it, but it -- it goes back as


       2        part of the planning process back into the --


       3        probably to the late '70s.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  The most recent road


       5        changes, when were --


       6             MR. CROFTS:  Well, these road changes -- as


       7        we've said, this plan was done -- it was adopted


       8        in 2002.  The planning took place before then.


       9        When this plan actually was taking place, they


      10        were actually constructing the eastern part of


      11        this thing over the Intracoastal Waterway as


      12        it was going forward, as this road was


      13        progressing -- the construction of this road was


      14        progressing westward to 9A.  That's what was the


      15        impetus and the request for this particular work


      16        to be done.  So it was planned sufficiently


      17        before then, probably five years at least before


      18        then.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  But suffice it to say


      20        that at the time of planning for that, these


      21        plans weren't in anybody's mind.  The -- I


      22        assume the plans that were made somewhat


      23        accommodated or took in consideration that the


      24        Gate station and the properties -- was that part


      25        of the planning process, to help make traffic




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        flow well for the -- that triangle property?


       2             MR. KELLY:  The -- what I can say is the


       3        exact engineered plans, you know, where


       4        Fort Caroline kind of turns to the south, the


       5        exact location of that was not known in 2002.  A


       6        logical location was between, clearly, the post


       7        office and the Gate site.  There was woods and


       8        some upland areas between them, but the exact


       9        design and engineering and the extent of those


      10        engineering, those civil plans was not known at


      11        the time that the study was done in 2002.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.


      13             Mr. Bishop.


      14             MR. BISHOP:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      15             I'll be brief.


      16             Through the Chair to Mr. Kelly, in respect


      17        to your discussion about this particular


      18        application not setting a precedent and how the


      19        Wonderwood study identifies three areas of


      20        commercial concern and that the Planning


      21        Department would look highly unfavorably on


      22        commercial applications in other than those


      23        areas, I want to draw your attention to the area


      24        near McCormick and Mt. Pleasant.  I seem to


      25        recall recently there was an application for a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        commercial project in that area that did receive


       2        a favorable recommendation from the Planning


       3        Department, and that, I believe, is not one of


       4        those areas of commercial concern.


       5             Can you explain to me how -- can you


       6        rectify the two issues for me?  I'm having


       7        trouble with that one.


       8             MR. KELLY:  Well, Mt. Pleasant and


       9        McCormick is one of the -- also one of the three


      10        areas.  Let me -- this is the -- you've got


      11        basically three areas.  What the study says on


      12        page 4, the bottom of page 4, there are three


      13        existing concentrations of commercial


      14        development along the route of the connector.


      15        One along the north side of Mt. Pleasant Road,


      16        one at McCormick and Monument Roads, and one at


      17        McCormick and Fort Caroline Roads.  So those are


      18        the three areas within the corridor that are


      19        those critical concern and areas of commercial


      20        concentration.


      21             MR. BISHOP:  You said that quickly and


      22        before I could flip the page.  You did say


      23        McCormick and Mt. Pleasant?


      24             MR. KELLY:  What the study says -- on


      25        page 4, it talks about an area on the north side




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        of Mt. Pleasant, at the bottom of page 4,


       2        Mt. Pleasant Road, and then it says one at


       3        McCormick and Monument Roads and one at


       4        McCormick and Fort Caroline.


       5             So the intersection with Mt. Pleasant and


       6        Wonderwood, I would assume McCormick, the north


       7        side of that, as identified in the study, would


       8        be, again, one of those areas of commercial


       9        concentration.


      10             MR. BISHOP:  So anywhere on the north side


      11        of McCormick?


      12             MR. KELLY:  Again, it would have to meet --


      13        again, as the zoning and the criteria, we would


      14        evaluate any rezoning of land for consistency


      15        with the locational criteria and future land use


      16        element.


      17             MR. BISHOP:  If I lived in that area, I'd


      18        be real concerned with that interpretation.


      19             That was it, members of the committee.


      20             I think we have also heard from the


      21        residents here, those that participated in the


      22        production of this study, and they said that's


      23        not the intention of this, and I would give that


      24        some pretty serious weight.


      25             Thank you.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Crescimbeni.


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  One more question.  I


       3        can't remember who asked this.  I think it might


       4        have been Mr. Jones, but -- Mr. Kelly, you were


       5        talking about whether the same establishment --


       6        proposed establishment can operate on its


       7        current -- on the current parcel, right?  I


       8        forgot who asked that question, but -- I think


       9        it was Mr. Jones.  And I'm not sure I understood


      10        your answer.  Did you say yes or no?


      11             MR. KELLY:  I think the question was


      12        whether or not the proposed site would be able


      13        to relocate, the current site plan of the


      14        proposed site, if that could be fitted onto the


      15        triangular parcel.


      16             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  That was the question.


      17             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      18             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  What was your answer, yes


      19        or no?


      20             MR. KELLY:  From a practical standpoint,


      21        you know, you would have a lot of issues, I


      22        think, again, going back to the access.  I


      23        default back to the safety concerns with the


      24        access.  From a physical -- could you fit


      25        16 pumps with 4,900 square feet on a




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        one-and-a-half-acre parcel?  Yes.


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And when you say "the


       3        access," are you talking about -- because of the


       4        traffic configurations that resulted with the


       5        construction of Wonderwood and the new


       6        Fort Caroline intersection?


       7             MR. KELLY:  From -- correct.  You would


       8        basically have queuing lanes that would exceed,


       9        you would have driveways that potentially --


      10             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And did you mention


      11        eminent domain, there were some takings in


      12        there?  I think I heard you use that word --


      13             MR. KELLY:  That's correct.  There was land


      14        taken along the Fort Caroline Road


      15        right-of-way --


      16             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Right.


      17             MR. KELLY:  -- that narrowed --


      18             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      19             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  -- (inaudible) the


      20        existing site?  From the existing site?


      21             MR. KELLY:  Correct.


      22             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  And when there's


      23        an eminent domain proceeding, the landowner is


      24        compensated, correct, for the loss of whatever


      25        damages they --




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. KELLY:  Yes.  This was a JTA -- so --


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Okay.  One question,


       3        then, for Mr. Hainline or a Gate


       4        representative.


       5             (Mr. Hainline approaches the podium.)


       6             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  What -- were there


       7        eminent domain proceedings against --


       8             MR. HAINLINE:  Gate hasn't been compensated


       9        for that land that was taken.


      10             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  So you just gave it


      11        away?


      12             MR. HAINLINE:  Huh?


      13             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  I thought you --


      14             MR. HAINLINE:  Gate has not been


      15        compensated.


      16             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Did Gate own the shopping


      17        center?


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  JTA.


      19             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Huh?


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  I think he said JTA.


      21             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Who owned the --


      22             MR. HAINLINE:  He did say --


      23             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Who owned the --


      24             MR. HAINLINE:  You were saying "Gate."


      25             I --




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             (Simultaneous speaking.)


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Who owned the 6,800


       3        square feet?


       4             MR. HAINLINE:  It's split owned.  Gate


       5        owned its part and the JTA owned its part, but


       6        I'm --


       7             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Wait, wait --


       8             MR. HAINLINE:  I'm sorry.  I thought


       9        Mr. Kelly was referring to the land --


      10             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      11             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  JTA operates -- JTA built


      12        a shopping center and operated a seafood store?


      13             MR. HAINLINE:  No.


      14             JTA does currently own that strip center


      15        and they do own --


      16             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  I know --


      17             (Simultaneous speaking.)


      18             MR. HAINLINE:  -- and they do lease --


      19             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Who used to own it?


      20             MR. HAINLINE:  Who used to own it?


      21             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Yeah.  I mean, how did


      22        JTA come to own --


      23             MR. HAINLINE:  We don't know.  We don't


      24        know who used to own it.


      25             I can only answer one question at a time.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  I'm sorry.  So -- so


       2        you're saying Gate never owned the whole parcel


       3        there, then?


       4             MR. HAINLINE:  Let's get --


       5             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  I thought you guys sold


       6        the -- the seafood --


       7             (Mr. Wilson approaches the podium.)


       8             MR. WILSON:  Let me answer you, if I can.


       9             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  -- the seafood store and


      10        the other --


      11             MR. WILSON:  No, we didn't.


      12             Let me correct all this.  There was a


      13        taking at the time of the Wonderwood


      14        right-of-away taking, which also included the


      15        pond.  When it came to the triangle, there was


      16        an owner of the strip center.  I don't know who


      17        it was.  It wasn't Gate.


      18             In the taking, the damages were such that


      19        the compensation was basically they bought the


      20        whole shopping center.  That's how JTA ended up


      21        in ownership of it, because the damages were


      22        severe enough that they just ended up owning the


      23        shopping center and let -- making the owner


      24        whole and he went away.  That's how they became


      25        ownership.  They don't want to be landlords, so




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203




       1        they joined with us, as Mr. Hainline said,


       2        and --


       3             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  So does JTA currently own


       4        the --


       5             (Simultaneous speaking.)


       6             MR. WILSON:  They currently own --


       7             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  -- the former Gate


       8        station --


       9             MR. WILSON:  -- the shopping center, which


      10        is 4,155 square feet, which abuts the -- and in


      11        your booklet -- I forget which page -- you see


      12        in the existing conditions a photograph that


      13        shows the old -- actually it's an old 7-Eleven,


      14        Southland company store from the '60s, next to a


      15        strip shopping center.  JTA owns the strip


      16        shopping center because the reasons I just


      17        stated.  Gate had just the 7-Eleven store.  The


      18        7-Eleven store was 2,640 square feet.  If you


      19        add that to the shopping center which Gate


      20        now -- the JTA now owns, that's how you get to


      21        the 6,795 square feet Mr. Hainline was talking


      22        about.


      23             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And you-all still own the


      24        old Southland --


      25             MR. WILSON:  The old Gate store -- yeah,





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203




       1        the old Southland store.


       2             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  So Gate owns that.


       3        Somebody else owned the other parcel?


       4             MR. WILSON:  Right.


       5             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  And JTA bought that from


       6        another owner other than Gate?


       7             MR. WILSON:  Right.  I don't know if that


       8        was a court action or what, but the net result


       9        was JTA ended up fee title ownership of that


      10        shopping center because of the taking.


      11             MR. CRESCIMBENI:  Thank you.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  All right.  Seeing no


      13        further speakers, please open the ballot.


      14             We're on the bill.


      15             (Committee ballot opened.)


      16             MR. HOLT:  (Votes nay.)


      17             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      18             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      20             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes nay.)


      21             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      23             (Committee ballot closed.)


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record


      25        the.





           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203




       1             MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yea, two nay.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       3        approved 2010-212.


       4             And, folks, I believe that is our last item


       5        unless somebody can point to one that I missed


       6        because I did jump around quite a bit.


       7             I'm getting a very strong head shake from


       8        Mr. Reingold.


       9             Thank you all.  Good night.


      10             (The above proceedings were adjourned at


      11        7:18 p.m.)


      12                         -  -  -































           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E




       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:


       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :




       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was


       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the


       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a


       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.


      10             Dated this 9th day of May, 2010.








      14                                 Diane M. Tropia


























            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203