1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE


       2                    LAND USE AND ZONING


       3                         COMMITTEE






       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, April 20,


       7   2010, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council


       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before


       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State


      10   of Florida at Large.




      12   PRESENT:


      13        RAY HOLT, Chair.

                WARREN JONES, Vice Chair.

      14        REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.

                DANIEL DAVIS, Committee Member.

      15        JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.

                STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.

      16        DON REDMAN, Committee Member.



           ALSO PRESENT:


                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

      19        SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

      20        KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

                JASON GABRIEL, Office of General Counsel.

      21        DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

                RICK CAMPBELL, Research Assistant.

      22        MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

                JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.


                                 -  -  -








           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


       2   April 20, 2010                          5:05 p.m.


       3                         -  -  -


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, everybody.


       5             We are here for the April 20 Land Use and


       6        Zoning meeting and it's going to be a short


       7        one.  Let's go ahead and start by going around


       8        the horn and everybody introduce themselves.


       9             MR. CROFTS:  Good evening.


      10             My name is John Crofts, Planning and


      11        Development Department.


      12             MR. KELLY:  Sean Kelly, Planning and


      13        Development.


      14             MR. HUXFORD:  Folks Huxford, Planning and


      15        Development.


      16             MR. REINGOLD:  Dylan Reingold with the


      17        Office of General Counsel.


      18             MR. GABRIEL:  Jason Gabriel with the Office


      19        of General Counsel.


      20             MR. DAVIS:  Daniel Davis.


      21             MR. BROWN:  Reginald Brown, City Council.


      22             DR. GAFFNEY:  Dr. Gaffney, District 7.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Ray Holt, District 11.


      24             MR. JONES:  Warren Jones, District 9.


      25             MR. JOOST:  Stephen Joost, Group 3,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        at large.


       2             MR. REDMAN:  Don Redman, District 4.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right, everybody.  We


       4        don't have any items that we're taking up early


       5        for anybody.


       6             Starting on page 2, items number 1 and 2


       7        are deferred.


       8             Item 3, 2010-186.  This is a rezoning,


       9        quasi-judicial.


      10             Mr. Crofts, before we go into the public


      11        hearing, do you need to -- there's no


      12        amendment.  Do you need to give us any


      13        information on this?


      14             MR. CROFTS:  Other than the fact,


      15        Mr. Chairman and committee, that this is a


      16        rezoning of a formerly-owned City piece of


      17        property that's being converted to a commercial


      18        use that previously was a fire station and it's


      19        now going to be operating as a roofing company.


      20             Staff recommends approval.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.


      22             All right.  We will open the public


      23        hearing.


      24             Seeing no speakers, we will close the


      25        public hearing.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JONES:  Move to approve.


       2             MR. BROWN:  Second.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and a second on the


       4        bill.


       5             Please open the ballot.


       6             (Committee ballot opened.)


       7             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      11             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      14             (Committee ballot closed.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      16        vote.


      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nays.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      19        approved 2010-186.


      20             Item number 4, 2010-187, also


      21        quasi-judicial if anybody has anything to -- to


      22        note on that.


      23             Mr. Crofts, there's no amendment.  Do you


      24        have anything?


      25             MR. CROFTS:  No, sir, other than the fact




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        that staff recommends approval of this.


       2             This is the conversion of some park and


       3        recreation land to be actually purchased by the


       4        sheriff's department to be used as a marine


       5        facility to be constructed there by the


       6        sheriff's office, and staff recommends approval.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  Thank you, sir.


       8             Open the public hearing.


       9             Seeing no speakers, no one needs to declare


      10        ex-parte, we'll close the public hearing and


      11        we'll --


      12             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill.


      13             DR. GAFFNEY:  Second.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and a second on the


      15        bill.


      16             Please open the ballot.


      17             (Committee ballot opened.)


      18             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      19             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      20             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


      21             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      22             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      25             (Committee ballot closed.)




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


       2        vote.


       3             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nay.


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       5        approved 2010-187.


       6             2010-202.


       7             MR. JOOST:  Move to withdraw.


       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  Second.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second to


      10        withdraw.


      11             Do we have anybody here on this bill


      12        tonight?


      13             AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  This is a bill that was, I


      15        believe, withdrawn or denied last time and then


      16        it came back, rereferred to us, because


      17        supposedly someone was going to get back in


      18        contact with us.


      19             Okay.  Mr. Jones.


      20             MR. JONES:  You answered the question,


      21        Mr. Chairman.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I don't understand


      23        why it was brought back to us if nobody has


      24        contacted us.  I haven't had any contact from


      25        anybody on this, but we have a motion and second




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        to withdraw, so please open the ballot.


       2             (Committee ballot opened.)


       3             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       4             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       5             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


       6             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


       7             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      10             (Committee ballot closed.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      12        vote.


      13             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nay.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      15        again withdrawn 2010-202.  We'll give it another


      16        shot.


      17             Numbers 6 and 7 are deferred.


      18             Number 8, our fee bill, 2010-216.  We will


      19        open the public hearing.


      20             Seeing no speakers, we will close the


      21        public hearing.


      22             MR. JOOST:  Move the amendment.


      23             MR. JONES:  Second.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


      25        amendment.  And --




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. DAVIS:  If I could go to the amendment,


       2        please.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- this is the amendment


       4        from Finance, correct?


       5             DR. GAFFNEY:  Yes.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  The Finance amendment.


       7             Mr. Reingold.


       8             MR. REINGOLD:  Yes.  It would be the


       9        Finance amendment.


      10             Additionally, I just wanted to let the LUZ


      11        Committee know that the Planning Commission had


      12        a special meeting today at noon and out of the


      13        Planning Commission recommended approval,


      14        subject to one condition.  They had recommended


      15        this afternoon that essentially the chief


      16        financial officer have the ability to decrease


      17        the fee in the event that the chief financial


      18        officer found that the costs or the revenue


      19        gained exceeded the cost of the -- of doing the


      20        projects or what they were reviewing.  That was


      21        the only amendment that came out of the Planning


      22        Commission.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Which is a statutory


      24        requirement anyway?


      25             MR. REINGOLD:  That is absolutely correct,




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        sir.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Brown.


       3             MR. BROWN:  Through the Chair, I actually


       4        have a couple of concerns.  My first one is the


       5        current posture, does it give the CFO the


       6        authority or that's what we're trying to do?


       7        And, if so, why?  And why we, as a body, no


       8        longer want to have authority over the


       9        adjustment of the fees.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold, you had


      11        answered it in the agenda meeting really well,


      12        that we do ultimately have that control.  You


      13        want to answer Mr. Brown's question?


      14             MR. BROWN:  And are we relinquishing


      15        control; is that what we're doing?


      16             MR. JOOST:  Not in the Finance amendment.


      17             MR. REINGOLD:  It was my understanding that


      18        essentially these items come back to the Finance


      19        Committee -- with a report to the Finance


      20        Committee before they're done.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Do you want to explain it,


      22        Mr. Joost?


      23             MR. JOOST:  I believe it was


      24        Mr. Yarborough's amendment, is -- he didn't want


      25        to relinquish that control just arbitrarily to




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the CFO of the City, so he made an amendment,


       2        and we approved it, that said these have to come


       3        back at least before the Finance Committee to be


       4        approved by the Finance Committee.  And so


       5        that -- that's -- that amendment is so -- the


       6        CFO, right now the Finance Committee amendment,


       7        cannot just arbitrarily change the fees without


       8        input from the City Council.


       9             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  I would feel more


      10        comfortable -- I respect the Finance Committee,


      11        but I believe that, since we represent the


      12        entire city, I think it should come before full


      13        council.  The Finance Committee is fine, but I


      14        do believe that -- that would make me feel a


      15        little more comfortable, if this was to come


      16        before full council versus --


      17             MR. JOOST:  And I -- me, personally, I


      18        just -- you know, I -- I'm comfortable either


      19        way.  I just think the gist of the argument


      20        was -- is the CFO just shouldn't arbitrarily


      21        change fees without input from the legislative


      22        body.  So whether you want it at the full


      23        council or the Finance Committee is, I guess,


      24        really just kind of semantics at that point and


      25        the overall idea of the amendment doesn't




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        change.


       2             So, I mean, I'll vote for your amendment in


       3        this committee if you want to make one as well,


       4        and we'll just see what happens at the full


       5        council because we'll have conflicting


       6        amendments at that point.


       7             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  Absolutely.


       8             And the reason I would like to make this


       9        amendment is because, as I stated, this is going


      10        to impact the entire city and so it would be


      11        good for every elected official to give their


      12        yea or nay in terms of the adjustment of fees,


      13        up or down, so I -- I can make that amendment --


      14             MR. DAVIS:  Second.


      15             MR. BROWN:  -- is what my understanding --


      16        okay.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  So let me make sure I


      18        understand, restate the amendment, that any


      19        change in the fee would have to come back and go


      20        through an entire cycle, go through the normal


      21        legislative process, and be approved by the


      22        council?


      23             MR. BROWN:  Absolutely.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I have a motion.  Did


      25        I get a second?




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. DAVIS:  Yes.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis seconded.


       3             All in favor of that amendment signify by


       4        saying aye.


       5             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Any opposed?


       7             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)


       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  The amendment


       9        passes.


      10             And so we're wrapping all those up with the


      11        Finance amendment?


      12             MR. JOOST:  There's another amendment as


      13        well.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      15             MR. JOOST:  I think that's why Mr. Reingold


      16        has his hand up.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  So do we need to approve all


      18        of those amendments together or did we just vote


      19        to approve all the amendments at once?


      20             MR. REINGOLD:  Well, what I've heard so far


      21        is essentially the Finance amendment.  I stated


      22        the language about the chief financial officer


      23        moving the rates down.  I didn't know if the


      24        committee wanted to incorporate that.  And then


      25        the additional amendment was that essentially it




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        will be full council review of any change, not


       2        just to the Finance Committee, and we can wrap


       3        that all up in one amendment if that's what the


       4        committee so chooses.


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  That's what we would like.


       6             All right.  So we have approved the


       7        amendment.  I need a motion on the bill.


       8             Mr. Redman, did you want to say something


       9        on that?


      10             MR. REDMAN:  I would like to try to bring


      11        up the Yarborough amendment on -- again, on


      12        bringing the solid waste fee from this.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  To eliminate the solid waste


      14        fee?


      15             MR. REDMAN:  Eliminate the solid waste fee.


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead and propose your


      17        amendment, then.


      18             MR. REDMAN:  I'm proposing that as an


      19        amendment.


      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  That we eliminate the solid


      21        waste fee from this bill.


      22             Do we have a second?


      23             MR. JOOST:  (Inaudible.)


      24             MR. REDMAN:  Yeah.  I'm sorry, the increase


      25        to the solid waste fee.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Do we have a second?


       2             MR. JONES:  I second for discussion.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Jones, go ahead


       4        and speak.


       5             MR. JONES:  Is the Yarborough amendment to


       6        reduce the garbage fee and put it on the regular


       7        schedule that we had it originally or is it to


       8        eliminate or freeze it?  What is the amendment?


       9             MR. JOOST:  Put it back to the original


      10        schedule was my understanding and not have


      11        (inaudible) --


      12             MR. REDMAN:  (Inaudible.)


      13             (Inaudible discussion.)


      14             MR. REINGOLD:  To the council, if I may, I


      15        know Diane Tropia is trying to record this and


      16        there seems to be a discussion off the


      17        microphones.  That just really helps in terms of


      18        our ability to keep a transcript.


      19             MR. JONES:  Let me -- I guess to Mr. Joost.


      20             MR. JOOST:  (Inaudible.)


      21             MR. JONES:  So you don't know what the


      22        amendment was?


      23             MR. JOOST:  (Inaudible.)


      24             MR. JONES:  Well, that's what I'm asking,


      25        to --




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, Mr. Joost.


       2             MR. JONES:  -- explain the amendment.


       3             MR. JOOST:  What the -- at least my


       4        recollection of the Yarborough amendment was not


       5        to have any increase right now, and I think his


       6        intent was to keep it as is, to keep the status


       7        quo, which would mean eventually, according to


       8        the original schedule, it would go up -- I


       9        believe it was a dollar a year over so many


      10        years --


      11             MR. JONES:  (Inaudible.)


      12             MR. JOOST:  -- and it would eventually get


      13        there anyway, but not just this year.  It was


      14        not the -- an increase of another five dollars


      15        or whatever it is.  It's to keep -- maintain the


      16        status quo.


      17             MR. JONES:  All right.  And I know we have


      18        a tough budget year coming up, and I'm working


      19        with the administration on the -- on the garbage


      20        fee issue.  That's the concern I have, but --


      21        and I'll vote to get it out of committee today


      22        and reserve the right to vote differently come


      23        Tuesday night.


      24             Thank you.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So the amendment --




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Mr. Redman's amendment would be to eliminate the


       2        change of the solid waste fee, keep the solid


       3        waste fee the same and on the track that it


       4        previously was.


       5             All in favor of that amendment signify --


       6        I'm sorry.


       7             Mr. Joost.


       8             MR. JOOST:  I'm against the amendment.


       9             Number one, this is an Enterprise Fund, and


      10        so what the City -- you know, what's happened is


      11        the current budget situation has kind of


      12        exacerbated the situation we're in and it's


      13        brought to light -- I mean, you have certain


      14        Enterprise Funds that should be supporting


      15        themselves regardless of the economic situation


      16        we're in.  So you've got to kind of separate the


      17        issues.  And over the years, the general fund


      18        has been subsidizing the garbage, if you will.


      19             And, by the way, this Enterprise Fund that


      20        we're talking about is only on the collection.


      21        It doesn't even address the cost of disposal.


      22        Okay?  So if you added them all up together, the


      23        amount we're subsidizing, the total garbage


      24        amount, is way more than what the administration


      25        is even telling us because they're only




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        addressing half of the equation.  They're


       2        addressing the pickup.  Well, there's -- every


       3        time you take a truck to the dump, you've got to


       4        pay, you know, the disposal fees as well.


       5             So, you know, year after year the general


       6        fund subsidizes these Enterprise Funds.  The


       7        cost of picking up the garbage should stand on


       8        itself.  The beaches had it for years, many


       9        other communities have had it for years, and


      10        therefore I wouldn't support it because at some


      11        point this -- these fees should support


      12        themselves.


      13             I mean, if you don't -- and the logic here,


      14        if you follow the logic -- well, you're going to


      15        gut the garbage fee, then why wouldn't you just


      16        vote against all these fees?  You know, because


      17        the idea is many of these fees haven't been


      18        increased in almost 20 years, you know, since


      19        the 19- -- some of them haven't been increased


      20        since 1990 and the cost of doing business has


      21        gone up.  And, you know, we're saying we can't


      22        subsidize, you know, all these fees and


      23        applications and whatnot.


      24             So if you follow the same logic, you


      25        wouldn't vote for any of this.  And, therefore,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        I wouldn't support taking out just the


       2        collection of the garbage fee because,


       3        obviously, I mean, it's the lion's share of the


       4        increase and it's the hot topic of the day, if


       5        you will, but logically it doesn't make sense to


       6        support some of the fees and not the garbage fee


       7        and have the general fund continue to subsidize


       8        it.


       9             Thank you.


      10             (Mr. Jones assumes the Chair.)


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Joost.


      12             MR. HOLT:  Thank you, Mr. Jones.


      13             I just wanted to say one of the things that


      14        I had said in Finance.


      15             And I think the watch word on this is


      16        "consistency."  We're going to be bringing these


      17        fees up to the point where they pay for the


      18        service that we provide.  And if we're going to


      19        do that to commercial properties and some of the


      20        services that we provide to them, we need to do


      21        that to the garbage fee as well.


      22             We're really essentially doing some of our


      23        budget work in advance on this because, mark my


      24        words, if we do not raise this fee, then we will


      25        end up raising the millage an equal amount down




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        the road.  We all know that our next budget,


       2        we're going to come in with drastically lower


       3        values and we're going to have a drastically


       4        lower amount of funds, so I think we need to be


       5        consistent across the board on these.


       6             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis.


       7             MR. DAVIS:  Thank you.


       8             I was just going to say, you know, I


       9        appreciate Mr. Redman's proposed amendment.


      10        And, truthfully, none of us want to vote or even


      11        talk about this.  I mean, it is just a subject


      12        that we've been plagued with probably for the


      13        last six years and uncomfortable.


      14             Currently, we're in a global recession that


      15        is causing every municipality to have to figure


      16        out how to basically cover millions of dollars


      17        in gaps.


      18             So the truth is this:  If you pass this


      19        amendment, you would have to figure out a way


      20        with probably a 60- or an $80 million gap when


      21        the budget comes around to subsidize this, and


      22        it's not any fun.  It's very uncomfortable to


      23        talk about, but there is not a logical way to


      24        cover this gap without talking about having to


      25        increase the millage at some point.  And then




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        you get into the problem of dollars going to the


       2        general fund, and who knows what happens to them


       3        at that point.


       4             The truth is, this way I feel about as


       5        comfortable as you could in a situation like


       6        this, to make sure that we're covering the cost


       7        of a service and it's protected, so I really


       8        can't support the amendment.


       9             I'm -- I believe in what you -- your


      10        premise of the amendment, but I think that we


      11        have to be realistic.  And I think there's only


      12        one way that we can handle the situation that


      13        we're dealing with today, and that is to cover


      14        the cost of our service that we're providing.


      15             (Mr. Holt resumes the Chair.)


      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Davis.


      17             Mr. Brown.


      18             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  Through the Chair, I --


      19        as I was looking at this -- I know that the


      20        proposed amendment objective is to attempt to


      21        pass all the savings as we can to the


      22        taxpayers.  I stated, you know, this is a


      23        recession, if you want to consider that.  A lot


      24        of people, frankly, are just having difficult


      25        times.  I do believe that, as stated, the fees




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        should support the service, I do, it's just bad


       2        timing.


       3             But I have a concern and I wanted to see


       4        can I get an answer -- maybe Planning will have


       5        it or General Counsel, someone may have this


       6        answer.


       7             I understand the difference between pickup


       8        services, the cost, which is what we're


       9        discussing.  But the disposal fee, I wanted to


      10        see if we could get a list of how many counties


      11        outside of Duval that use the landfill that do


      12        not pay disposal fees, if we have any.


      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have some folks here from


      14        the administration tonight if -- if you guys


      15        wanted to take a shot at that.


      16             (Ms. Hall approaches the podium.)


      17             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  If the answer is none,


      18        that would be great.  I'm just -- I just want to


      19        make sure for the record that no one is bringing


      20        trash to any of our landfills without paying for


      21        it, to have it disposed.


      22             MS. HALL:  Sherry Hall with the mayor's


      23        office.


      24             Through the Chair to Councilmember Brown,


      25        my understanding is that anyone else using the




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        landfill does pay disposal fees.  If I find that


       2        to be inaccurate, I will clarify that with you,


       3        but that is my understanding as I stand here


       4        right now.


       5             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  So you're going to do


       6        the research on that and then follow up, yea,


       7        nay?


       8             MS. HALL:  Yes.  I'm fairly certain that is


       9        the case, but I will double-check that with our


      10        Solid Waste folks.


      11             MR. BROWN:  Okay.


      12             (Audience member approaches the podium.)


      13             MR. BROWN:  We have someone coming down.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Redman.


      15             MR. REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      16             And I understand Mr. Davis is right and I


      17        understand where everybody is coming from.


      18        Nobody wants to -- this fee increased.


      19             The thing that gets -- the thing that


      20        bothers me about increasing this fee is that we


      21        just put a garbage fee into action with the


      22        statement that it would be increased -- you


      23        know, this is what we told people.  It would be


      24        increased on a regular basis until it reaches


      25        the point of covering the entire cost of the




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        pickup.  And that's what we told people we were


       2        going to do, so -- and now we're coming back to


       3        the point, we're saying, "Well, we've changed


       4        our mind.  We're going to go ahead and bill you


       5        for the whole thing now" instead of increasing


       6        it at -- gradually, as we promised people we


       7        would do.


       8             Through the Chair to Mr. Davis.


       9             THE CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead.


      10             MR. DAVIS:  Let me put this in perspective,


      11        just the way I look at it.


      12             We're also looking at pay cuts because we


      13        are in a critical situation.  In my business, my


      14        employees haven't had a raise.  They're happy


      15        they have jobs.  In many cases, they're going


      16        part-time.  And that's not the promise -- the


      17        implicit promise that I've made them as I hired


      18        them, but I'm in a tough situation.  All I want


      19        to do is try to keep them employed.  Okay?


      20             This is very tough.  And I know the point


      21        that you're making, but you're also going to be


      22        considering pay cuts too for -- across the


      23        board.  And to be honest with you, that's not


      24        what we have told our employees either.  Okay?


      25        But you -- we have to be able to survive by




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        rolling with the circumstances.  And I've got to


       2        tell you, I'm in full support of reducing pay.


       3        Okay?  Because it's more important for me to


       4        keep someone employed than it is to try to


       5        maintain the status quo.


       6             So I think there's all sorts of things that


       7        we talked about, not knowing where we would be


       8        right now, that are -- they're not sustainable.


       9        And you're going to have to ask yourself that


      10        question a bunch coming up, what we're willing


      11        to do.


      12             So I'm with you, Councilman.  I understand


      13        what you're saying.  And I've had so many


      14        uncomfortable conversations, and I'm sure you


      15        guys have in your own businesses with your


      16        employees about how we can try to survive, and


      17        it puts a lot of things in perspective.  And


      18        when your back is against the wall, you're going


      19        to do things that you wouldn't normally do to


      20        survive, and so -- I don't know if that rambling


      21        mess made any sense, but that's kind of my


      22        perspective on this whole situation.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.


      24             MR. REDMAN:  Could I -- wait a minute.  Can


      25        I finish?




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry.  Go ahead.


       2             MR. REDMAN:  And I understand all that.


       3        And it's tough in my business, it's tough in


       4        everybody's business, but we're talking -- the


       5        difference is -- I mean, I -- we're talking


       6        about pay cuts, yes.  We're going to have to


       7        have pay cuts for City employees across the


       8        board, if we can, and work that out, but we're


       9        talking about the taxpayers' money out here now


      10        with the garbage and something that we committed


      11        to the taxpayer, not something that we committed


      12        to our employees here.


      13             This is something that our constituents,


      14        our taxpayers, that we committed to, that we


      15        were going to do something, we were going to set


      16        a fee, which we did, and we were going to


      17        increase that fee at such and such amount over a


      18        period of time.  They would eventually be paying


      19        full price for getting their garbage picked up.


      20             So, you know, it -- it's tough any way you


      21        look at, and I -- I understand.  I understand.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones.


      23             MR. JONES:  Thank you.


      24             I seconded the amendment, but I -- like


      25        Mr. Davis, it's a tough time.  I mean, we were




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        joking today that it used to be a time where the


       2        LUZ meeting lasted two or three hours.  I mean,


       3        that's a sign of the times right there.  You


       4        know, we are in a recession, it's a global one,


       5        and my only concern would be -- the garbage


       6        fee -- is the regressive nature of it.  And


       7        that's why I voted against it originally, but


       8        we're faced with a situation today, if we don't


       9        include the garbage fee, then we have two


      10        options, to either cut an equal amount out of


      11        the budget, which I think hits hardest at the


      12        people who need the services the most, or


      13        increase the millage rate.  I don't think -- and


      14        as Mr. Davis pointed out, either option we take


      15        is not a good option.  It's a dilemma.


      16             And so, with that, I will not support the


      17        amendment and hopefully can get some comfort


      18        between now and Tuesday on the regressive nature


      19        of the garbage fees because unless we get ten


      20        votes to -- because if Mr. Redman or anybody


      21        else can assure us that we're not going to cut


      22        library hours, we're not going to cut


      23        recreational services if we eliminate the


      24        increase in the garbage fee, then maybe I could


      25        support it, but I don't think we could do both,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        not in this environment.


       2             And I think the mayor has done a very good


       3        job of balancing the cuts with some increases in


       4        the three percent across-the-board salary cuts


       5        to balance this year's budget.  The next mayor


       6        or the next council is going to be another


       7        difficult year unless things turn around


       8        drastically, and I don't -- I hope it happens,


       9        but I don't think it will.


      10             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Brown.


      11             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  Through the Chair to


      12        Mr. Redman, I'm definitely very understanding to


      13        your request tonight because we're actually


      14        dealing with even a deeper issue, do we have a


      15        government that you can trust?


      16             And if we stated -- and I understand no one


      17        could really foresee five years ago that we


      18        would be in this posture, but if we made a


      19        promise to the taxpayers, and they all agree


      20        that we'll -- we'll take this hike or this fee,


      21        but with the understanding that it will


      22        increase -- the goal is to get it to the $13,


      23        but it will be a gradual increase.  If that's


      24        the promise that was made to the taxpayers and


      25        we're struggling with whether or not we have a




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        government that we can trust, I really would


       2        like to get clarity, you know, was that an


       3        actual comment made to the taxpayers?  Because


       4        it really puts another spin on the situation.


       5             Mr. Redman.


       6             MR. REDMAN:  Yes, that was a -- that was


       7        how we voted when we voted on the fees and


       8        promised the -- and, you know, that's the thing,


       9        you know.  I hate to tell people something and


      10        go back on my word and say, "Hey, you know, I


      11        meant it at the time, but times are tough, so I


      12        don't mean it anymore."  So I -- that's just the


      13        way I feel personally, so -- thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Dr. Gaffney.


      15             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      16             As I listen to the debate here, which is


      17        very good, I'm somewhat perplexed because this


      18        is really tough.  It's almost a no-win


      19        situation.


      20             I know I'm not one who likes to go against


      21        what we've already promised the public.


      22        However, my conscience too is the gap that we


      23        have to fill with the budget.  So that's


      24        something that we've really got to take in


      25        consideration.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             We have a lot of social services and basic


       2        services, essential services that we want to


       3        offer good service, good quality service.  And


       4        without the proper funding, it will be extremely


       5        difficult.


       6             And I definitely -- it's already difficult


       7        and it's a burden on people taking a three


       8        percent cut across the board, so we -- I'm kind


       9        of torn.  I'm -- I haven't made my mind up yet,


      10        but I do know, economically, I don't want to see


      11        a lot of employees laid off neither because --


      12        the money has to come from somewhere.


      13             We were not elected to make the popular


      14        decision but the best decision, and the best


      15        decision -- what is best for the City, the


      16        citizens of Jacksonville and the City of


      17        Jacksonville.  So, as I've said, I'm listening


      18        to the debates.  I haven't made my mind up yet,


      19        but we've got to look at the big picture.  So I


      20        echo some of the sentiments of my colleagues up


      21        here.


      22             Thank you.


      23             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Joost.


      24             MR. JOOST:  Just a follow-up on what


      25        Dr. Gaffney said.  The big picture is right now




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        we're 60 million short.  This only puts


       2        20 million and some change into it.  We're still


       3        going to have to cut $40 million after tonight.


       4        Two-thirds of the budget hole is coming from


       5        cuts.  So, I mean, even after tonight, we have a


       6        lot more tough decisions to make.  And so, you


       7        know -- and I certainly understand what you're


       8        saying and -- you know, we put the schedule out


       9        there when we passed the fee.  I mean, it's out


      10        there, it's public record, but everything we're


      11        doing tonight is -- it's public.  You know,


      12        we're not trying to hide the fact that, you


      13        know, we're changing things, but I think people


      14        understand this is the worst recession in


      15        60 years.  And given that fact, I guess I'm more


      16        comfortable saying I have to -- you know, I have


      17        to change more with the times and, you know, be


      18        quick on my feet because, I mean, we're not in a


      19        steady environment.  We're in a very uncertain


      20        environment today with the economy and,


      21        therefore, we have to make decisions that I know


      22        I normally wouldn't make and I don't think some


      23        of the other council members normally would


      24        make.


      25             And I share that uncomfort [sic] with you,




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        and I know -- normally, you know -- even with my


       2        stance with the pension -- when I was first


       3        running for the election, they asked me for the


       4        police and fire, you know, for their help.  And,


       5        you know, now look at me.  It's -- I mean, it's


       6        real uncomfortable, but that's the situation


       7        we're in.  You know, it's just reality.


       8             And we -- at the end of the day, we have to


       9        come up with a balanced budget.  And so, you


      10        know, going back to the big picture, this --


      11        what we're talking about tonight only takes care


      12        of 20 million of the $60 million picture.  So,


      13        you know, if we -- I look at it as trying to be


      14        even, across the board to everybody.  You know,


      15        the taxpayers are going to have to help with


      16        some of the burden and we're going to have to do


      17        a lot of the burden, but I don't think right now


      18        it's fair -- you know, the three percent tax --


      19        or not -- the three percent pay cut is only


      20        20 million.  So if we don't do this 20 million,


      21        are we going to ask our employees for a six


      22        percent cut?  You know, it's got to come from


      23        somewhere.  And, unfortunately, that's just the


      24        plain, hard facts.


      25             So, you know, given what I know, I'm not




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        going to support this amendment.  And I think,


       2        you know, at the end of the day, we just have to


       3        try to do the best we can in the most evenhanded


       4        manner, you know, and everybody has to share in


       5        this burden.  It's got to be, you know, City


       6        employees, it's got to be some of the programs.


       7        And, yes, at the end of the day, the taxpayers


       8        are going to have to help us pay for some of the


       9        services, and that's -- I think that's just the


      10        best approach at the end of the day, at least


      11        for myself.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Brown again.


      13             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  Through the Chair to --


      14        this is to General Counsel.  What was the


      15        purpose of grouping all of these fees together?


      16        Like why wasn't it separate?  Is it -- I'm just


      17        curious because it's -- it seems like it's just


      18        one issue that's holding up this bill.  And so I


      19        think if we had it itemized, you know, as a


      20        separate bill, we'd probably be a lot quicker


      21        through this process.  I'm just wondering


      22        whether it was some reasoning or logic behind


      23        that.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  I can take a shot at that.


      25             This council, at some point over the past




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        year, said to the administration that we want to


       2        try to -- this was during the last budget -- we


       3        want to try and make sure that our fees are in


       4        an area where they're covering the cost of our


       5        services and to do that wholistically, not


       6        picking and choosing.  That was my understanding


       7        of how this bill came about, was as a request


       8        from the council.


       9             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  I guess with that being


      10        said, then, it needs to be here.  You know,


      11        that's really the bottom line.  We are facing a


      12        budget, and I truly understand that.


      13             I wrestle with a deeper issue, which, you


      14        know, doesn't have anything to do with money.


      15        It's our word to the people.  And if there's a


      16        document floating out there -- unless we're


      17        going to send a document behind that to support


      18        why we are going in a different direction -- and


      19        I wasn't here during that time when we voted,


      20        but I think it's important -- just as


      21        important -- sometimes we -- you know, things


      22        bring on a change, but I do think for the good


      23        of this body, the good of government, the good


      24        of communication and trust with our taxpayers,


      25        that some document need to go out as to why




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        we're doing what we're doing other than the


       2        fact -- you know, it's a recession, sorry.  We


       3        said it three years ago, but we're going to have


       4        to do something different.


       5             Even if it's -- even if that's the


       6        justification, I think we need to word it in a


       7        way that we can rally community support because


       8        I don't believe that taxpayers -- not taxpayers,


       9        City employees should take the brunt of the


      10        expense.  So I would not be for raising it six


      11        percent or, you know, just putting the onus on


      12        one body.  I think that the entire city should


      13        play a part in this.


      14             But if there's a document out there, I


      15        would feel so much better with another document


      16        as to why we're having to go in a different


      17        direction.


      18             That would be it.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.


      20             Mr. Redman.


      21             MR. REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


      22             And then -- there is a document out there,


      23        but the other issue is we're taking something


      24        and we're voting to do this before we do any


      25        cuts.  And, you know, the idea was -- that I




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        understood -- as we -- the Finance Committee --


       2        as we go through the finances and look at the


       3        budget, look at the different departments, and


       4        see where we stand and what we can do, other


       5        than what we did last year -- which we did a lot


       6        last year and did a good job -- we thought we


       7        were doing a good job.  We thought we were


       8        really going to get somewhere.  I thought we


       9        wouldn't have any -- to increase the taxes


      10        then.  And who knows what we can do from this


      11        point on.


      12             But from my understanding, that was -- the


      13        whole idea was to go through the budget, not


      14        come and vote on an increase in fees, which I


      15        understand this would make up a big portion of


      16        our budget, to save us some anguish as we go


      17        through these cuts, but that's all it would do.


      18        I mean, that's what it would do, it would save


      19        us a lot of anguish in going through each


      20        department to figure out what we could cut and


      21        going -- you know, and salaries and all that.


      22        But, you know, this is not the budget as such.


      23        This is just a vote on fees.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Joost.


      25             MR. JOOST:  Thank you.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             Just a couple of things.


       2             I don't think there's a specific document


       3        that's out there saying we're changing course,


       4        but, I mean, the mayor has had many budget


       5        hearings with the public, and so has the City


       6        Council.  President Clark has had many budget


       7        meetings and another one scheduled this week.


       8        So, you know, that idea has already been put


       9        forth to the public.  It's not like, you know,


      10        we're just up here doing it tonight.  This has


      11        been discussed over the last -- at least a month


      12        and a half with the public.  You know, here's


      13        the preliminary budget.  This is how we're going


      14        to balance it.  The fees -- the increase has


      15        been out there for at least a month and


      16        discussed, you know, for the people that decide


      17        to show up at these budget hearings.  So it's


      18        not like, you know, we've just been trying to do


      19        it in a vacuum here just at City Hall, so --


      20             So with respect to that, I think the


      21        communication has been made to the public, that,


      22        yes, indeed, here is the situation; yes, indeed,


      23        we're going to have to change course.  And so I


      24        would argue, you know, that although there


      25        hasn't been a specific memo, there has been the




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        effort to explain what our budget was and we're


       2        not just changing course.


       3             And oftentimes in my business, I mean, we


       4        make business plans, circumstances change, and,


       5        you know, I have to change with those


       6        circumstances.  And I guess that's kind of how I


       7        look at this is -- is that circumstances have


       8        changed, and so we've got to change with them.


       9             With respect to Mr. Redman, you know, what


      10        we're doing tonight does have budget


      11        implications because the general fund has


      12        obviously subsidized the garbage fee.  But,


      13        again, I go back to -- if you say -- like on


      14        these other fees, you know, applications and


      15        various fees and all the other -- you know,


      16        let's just call them minor incidental fees.


      17        Those services should support themselves.  And


      18        using that same logic, then, yes, the garbage


      19        fee should support itself.  Otherwise, you


      20        wouldn't be able to vote for any of this.


      21             And so, you know, when you logically look


      22        it, that -- okay, if the cost of doing this


      23        application is X, then I need to change it from


      24        250 to $500 to cover that cost, the garbage fee


      25        is no different.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Brown again.


       2             MR. BROWN:  Yes.  Through the Chair to


       3        General Counsel, do -- are we locked into --


       4        because I heard what Councilman Redman alluded


       5        to in terms of we make and make some adjustments


       6        later.  Are we locked into it at this point,


       7        moving from $6 to the full amount or can we use


       8        language like "up to"?   That way we have some


       9        flexibility in the event the economy gets


      10        better.


      11             And, you know, we can -- we can make that


      12        adjustment down if we need to, but if we have to


      13        go to the full amount, then -- then fine, let's


      14        do it, but the -- the way that I'm understanding


      15        the language right now is that it's all or


      16        nothing, full amount, or --


      17             MR. JOOST:  It's not the full amount.


      18             MR. BROWN:  Okay.


      19             MR. JOOST:  It's only going to


      20        85 percent.  It's not going to the full amount.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  But there's nothing that


      22        would change that.


      23             MR. JOOST:  But you can offer any amendment


      24        you want.  I mean, that's -- that's your purview


      25        as a councilman.




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. BROWN:  Well, if we're still not


       2        covering the full cost, then there is some -- I


       3        think a reasonable understanding that the City


       4        is still pitching in --


       5             MR. JOOST:  Yeah.


       6             MR. BROWN:  -- and the taxpayer is not --


       7             MR. JOOST:  It only takes it up to


       8        85 percent.  We'll still be subsidizing at


       9        15 percent.


      10             MR. BROWN:  Okay.  But it's not at full


      11        cost?


      12             MR. JOOST:  No, sir.


      13             MR. BROWN:  Thank you.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Davis.


      15             MR. DAVIS:  I guess this is what I'd say


      16        and this is the last thing and hopefully


      17        somebody else calls the question when I'm done.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  I was hoping.


      19             MR. DAVIS:  You know, I -- Mr. Redman, I


      20        don't know if you have an idea of how to cover


      21        the gap.  That would help me be able to vote for


      22        your amendment, if you -- if there was some


      23        legitimate proposal that would cover the gap


      24        without a millage increase.


      25             So, number one, I'd like to ask that




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        question.  Number two, if between now and


       2        Tuesday night you or Mr. Yarborough want to


       3        present an amendment that has a legitimate


       4        offset of how we cover the cost, I'd be more


       5        than willing to listen to it and welcome it.


       6        I'm always open.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Dr. Gaffney.


       8             DR. GAFFNEY:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


       9             I just want to expound on what Councilman


      10        Davis said, and I'd be more than willing to


      11        help.  It's just as frustrating to keep


      12        piecemealing.  Eighty-five percent is not


      13        enough, to be quite frankly [sic] with you.  If


      14        it was two percent, people are going to get


      15        upset.


      16             Now, as a businessman and as a banker, you


      17        know, my first instinct -- say get it all, you


      18        know, and get it over with so we can run our


      19        city efficiently the way it should be run.


      20        However, in the essence of -- in the essence of


      21        just trying to compromise, you know, the 85


      22        percent is okay, but it's not good enough.  But


      23        if we can find any other means to fill the gap


      24        -- I mean, I'm really, really struggling with


      25        this because I'm upset.  I don't want no kind of




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        fees.  However, that's not -- that's not the


       2        real world.  In the real world, it's just not


       3        that simple.  One size don't fit all and


       4        situations change every day, so we have to adapt


       5        to the change or we'll become like dinosaurs,


       6        and that's what -- that's what we do not want to


       7        have to obligate the city.  I say


       8        "great city," so we've got to do what we got to


       9        do, so --


      10             Thank you very much.


      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Jones and then


      12        Mr. Redman.


      13             MR. JONES:  Move the previous question.


      14             MR. JOOST:  What does that mean?


      15             MR. JONES:  Call the question.


      16             MR. JOOST:  Second.


      17             THE CHAIRMAN:  The question has been


      18        called.  It's nondebatable.


      19             All in favor of calling the question,


      20        please signify by saying aye.


      21             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      22             THE CHAIRMAN:  The question has been


      23        called.


      24             On the amendment -- let's do this by hand


      25        because I think we're going to be split on this




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        one.


       2             All in favor of the Redman amendment


       3        signify by raising your hand.


       4             MR. REDMAN:  (Indicating.)


       5             THE CHAIRMAN:  All those opposed.


       6             (Indicating.)


       7             MR. JONES:  (Indicating.)


       8             MR. DAVIS:  (Indicating.)


       9             MR. JOOST:  (Indicating.)


      10             MR. BROWN:  (Indicating.)


      11             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Indicating.)


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment fails.


      13             All right.  We are back on the bill as


      14        previously amended.


      15             Do I have a motion on the bill as amended?


      16             MR. JOOST:  Move the bill as amended.


      17             MR. JONES:  Second.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second.


      19             Please open the ballot.


      20             (Committee ballot opened.)


      21             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


      22             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


      23             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


      24             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      25             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


       2             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes nay.)


       3             (Committee ballot closed.)


       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


       5        vote.


       6             MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, one nay.


       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


       8        approved 2010-216.


       9             MR. REINGOLD:  And I just want to confirm,


      10        that was the Finance amendment, the Planning


      11        Commission additional language, and the


      12        additional issue regarding the full council


      13        review instead of just the Finance Committee.


      14             THE CHAIRMAN:  Say that last part again.


      15             MR. REINGOLD:  That's why I asked for


      16        the -- it was -- instead of the Finance


      17        Committee review, it was the full council


      18        review.


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Correct.  That did pass.


      20             And I don't know that we really included


      21        the PC in there, but --


      22             MR. REINGOLD:  Okay.  If that's not what


      23        was included, that's fine.  I just wanted to


      24        make sure that was clear on the record.


      25             If that was out, then it was just the




           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        Finance amendment and the council full review.


       2             THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.  But, for the record,


       3        the -- the Planning Commission amendment was --


       4        is not really necessary.  It's that way by


       5        statute.


       6             All right.  Items 9 and 10 are second --


       7        are read second; 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and all of


       8        page 6; all of page 7, except for item 23,


       9        2010-273 --


      10             MR. JOOST:  Move the amendment.


      11             MR. BROWN:  Second.


      12             THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second on the


      13        amendment.


      14             Mr. Crofts, could you tell us what that


      15        amendment is?


      16             MR. CROFTS:  Mr. Chairman, committee, that


      17        strictly is a -- it's a spelling issue


      18        with "Blasis."


      19             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.


      20             MR. CROFTS:  We're correcting the spelling.


      21             THE CHAIRMAN:  Just a typo.


      22             All right.  All in favor of the amendment


      23        signify by saying aye.


      24             COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.


      25             THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1             MR. JONES:  Move to rerefer.


       2             MR. JOOST:  Second.


       3             THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second


       4        to rerefer.


       5             Please open the ballot.


       6             (Committee ballot opened.)


       7             MR. HOLT:  (Votes yea.)


       8             MR. JONES:  (Votes yea.)


       9             MR. BROWN:  (Votes yea.)


      10             MR. DAVIS:  (Votes yea.)


      11             DR. GAFFNEY:  (Votes yea.)


      12             MR. JOOST:  (Votes yea.)


      13             MR. REDMAN:  (Votes yea.)


      14             (Committee ballot closed.)


      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  Close the ballot, record the


      16        vote.


      17             MS. LAHMEUR:  Seven yeas, zero nay.


      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have


      19        rereferred.


      20             And unless I'm missing something, we have


      21        completed our agenda.


      22             Is that right, everybody?


      23             STAFF MEMBERS:  Yes.


      24             THE CHAIRMAN:  Y'all have a good night.


      25             (The above proceedings were adjourned at




            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1        5:52 p.m.)


       2                         -  -  -


















































            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203





       1                  C E R T I F I C A T E




       3   STATE OF FLORIDA:


       4   COUNTY OF DUVAL :




       6             I, Diane M. Tropia, certify that I was


       7   authorized to and did stenographically report the


       8   foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a


       9   true and complete record of my stenographic notes.


      10             Dated this 24th day of April, 2010.








      14                                 Diane M. Tropia


























            Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203