CITY OF JACKSONVILLE

 

                                LAND USE AND ZONING

 

                                     COMMITTEE

 

 

 

 

 

                          Proceedings held on Tuesday, August 16,

 

                2011, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council

 

                Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before

 

                Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the

 

                State of Florida at Large.

 

 

 

                PRESENT:

 

                     REGINALD BROWN, Chair.

                     RAY HOLT, Vice Chair.

                     LORI BOYER, Committee Member.

                     DOYLE CARTER, Committee Member.

                     ROBIN LUMB, Committee Member.

                     DON REDMAN, Committee Member.

 

 

 

                ALSO PRESENT:

 

 

                     SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.

                     FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.

                     KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

                     STEPHEN SMITH, Planning and Development Dept.

                     GARY KRESEL, Planning and Development Dept.

                     DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.

                     MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

 

                                       - - -


 

                                                                  2

 

 

 

             1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

                August 16, 2011                           5:00 p.m.

             2                         - - -

 

             3           (Councilman Holt presiding.)

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Good evening,

 

             5      everybody.

 

             6           Thank you for coming to the Land Use and

 

             7      Zoning Committee meeting for August 16th.

 

             8           Let's go around the horn and make sure all

 

             9      of our nameplates are correct, starting with

 

            10      Mr. Kelly.

 

            11           MR. KELLY:  Thank you.

 

            12           Sean Kelly, Planning and Development.

 

            13           MR. HUXFORD:  Folks Huxford, Planning and

 

            14      Development.

 

            15           MR. KRESEL:  Gary Kresel, Planning and

 

            16      Development.

 

            17           MR. AVERY:  Ken Avery, Planning and

 

            18      Development.

 

            19           MR. REINGOLD:  To abide by Mr. Holt's

 

            20      directions, Dylan Reingold, General Counsel.

 

            21           C/M BOYER:  Lori Boyer, City Council,

 

            22      District 6.

 

            23           C/M REDMAN:  Don Redman, City Council,

 

            24      District 4.

 

            25           C/M CARTER:  Doyle Carter, City Council,

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  3

 

 

 

             1      District 12.

 

             2           THE CHAIRMAN:  Ray Holt.  I am subbing for

 

             3      a little while until Mr. Brown gets here.  I'm

 

             4      representing District 11.

 

             5           C/M LUMB:  Robin Lumb, Group 5.

 

             6           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Let's see.  I'm

 

             7      thrown off without Mr. Crofts.  Take that to

 

             8      mean what you will.

 

             9           I don't think we have anybody here

 

            10      visiting to take anything out of order, so we

 

            11      will start on page 1.  Item number 1, -252, is

 

            12      deferred.

 

            13           Item number 2 --

 

            14           MR. REINGOLD:  Councilmember.

 

            15           THE CHAIRMAN:  Sorry?

 

            16           MR. REINGOLD:  (Inaudible.)

 

            17           THE CHAIRMAN:  Did we want to take one out

 

            18      of order?

 

            19           C/M BOYER:  (Inaudible.)

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  -252 is our item

 

            21      that we just had a meeting on.  And we are not

 

            22      deferring that, you're absolutely right.  We

 

            23      had our subcommittee beforehand.

 

            24           Ms. Boyer, do you want to give us a

 

            25      summary of what we discussed and make a motion?

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  4

 

 

 

             1           C/M BOYER:  The subcommittee met

 

             2      immediately prior to this meeting, and this was

 

             3      our second meeting.  We received both public

 

             4      comment on this recommended ordinance and

 

             5      reviewed staff recommendations on it.

 

             6           And, as a result of a request from the

 

             7      administration to withdraw this bill, the

 

             8      subcommittee voted to recommend withdrawal of

 

             9      it to the LUZ for consideration this evening.

 

            10           THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion from

 

            11      Ms. Boyer --

 

            12           C/M LUMB:  Second.

 

            13           THE CHAIRMAN:  -- second by Mr. Lumb.

 

            14           We'll put it on the ballot.

 

            15           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

            16           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

            17           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            18           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            19           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

            20           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

            21           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  There we go.

 

            23           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            24           THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

            25      withdrawn 2011-252.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  5

 

 

 

             1           And the folks with ITAC will be working on

 

             2      that and possibly coming back to us in the

 

             3      future with something similar.  I appreciate

 

             4      all the effort that everybody put in on that,

 

             5      all the folks in the logistics community.

 

             6           Thank you very much.

 

             7           Item number 2, 2011-341.  There is an

 

             8      amendment.

 

             9           C/M CARTER:  Move the amendment.

 

            10           C/M BOYER:  Second.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and a

 

            12      second on the amendment.

 

            13           All in favor of the amendment signify by

 

            14      saying aye.

 

            15           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

            16           THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes and

 

            17      we'll be rereferring this back to the

 

            18      committee; is that right?

 

            19           MS. LAHMEUR: (Inaudible.)

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  Right, but we'll --

 

            21           I need a motion to rerefer.

 

            22           C/M CARTER:  Motion to rerefer.

 

            23           C/M LUMB:  Second.

 

            24           THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion and second to

 

            25      rerefer back to LUZ.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  6

 

 

 

             1           Please open the ballot.

 

             2           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

             3           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

             4           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             5           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             6           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

             7           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

             8           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

             9           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            10           THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

            11      rereferred 2011-341 back to LUZ.

 

            12           MR. REINGOLD:  To the LUZ chair --

 

            13           THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes.

 

            14           MR. REINGOLD:  -- I think I heard a motion

 

            15      from Councilmember Carter and then a second

 

            16      from Councilmember Lumb on that item.

 

            17           And just to -- I know the agenda reflects

 

            18      that it was changing the number of dwelling

 

            19      units.  I think also it would be appropriate

 

            20      that the amendment also incorporates, as I

 

            21      discussed at the agenda meeting, that we

 

            22      reference that it's a portion of the RE number

 

            23      and not just a full -- the full RE number, but

 

            24      that was just reiterating what the amendment

 

            25      was.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  7

 

 

 

             1           THE CHAIRMAN:  And we don't need to revote

 

             2      that?

 

             3           MR. REINGOLD:  (Shakes head.)

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  Just for the record.  Okay.

 

             5           Item number 3, 2011-342, is a small scale

 

             6      amendment.

 

             7           C/M CARTER:  Move the bill.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  We need to open the public

 

             9      hearing.

 

            10           Where is my hammer?

 

            11           I opened the public hearing.  Do we have

 

            12      any speakers?

 

            13           AUDIENCE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  We'll close the public

 

            15      hearing.

 

            16           MR. REINGOLD:  To the committee, you might

 

            17      want to just hear a brief comment from the

 

            18      Planning and Development Department on the

 

            19      item.

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly.

 

            21           MR. REINGOLD:  Mr. Kresel.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry, Mr. Kresel has

 

            23      got this one.

 

            24           MR. KRESEL:  Through the Chair, ordinance

 

            25      2011-342.  The property is located on the west

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  8

 

 

 

             1      side of Philips Highway, at the intersection of

 

             2      Philips and Baymeadows Way West.  The property

 

             3      consists of 4.9 acres.  There is a vacant

 

             4      warehouse on site.

 

             5           Currently, the land use designation is

 

             6      Light Industrial.  The request is for a Heavy

 

             7      Industrial designation.  The property is within

 

             8      an industrial sanctuary.

 

             9           And the Department has reviewed the

 

            10      request and recommends approval.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

            12           Mr. Kelly, did you want to say something?

 

            13           MR. KELLY:  There's a companion rezoning.

 

            14      I didn't know if you wanted to take them

 

            15      together or --

 

            16           THE CHAIRMAN:  You're right.  I'm sorry.

 

            17      I haven't gone over this agenda.  I wasn't

 

            18      planning on being chair, so --

 

            19           Yeah, the -- 2011-342 and -343 are

 

            20      companions, so --

 

            21           C/M LUMB:  Mr. Chairman.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  -- but we've already opened

 

            23      and closed the public hearing.

 

            24           Yes, sir.

 

            25           C/M LUMB:  I think in the agenda meeting

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  9

 

 

 

             1      we decided we'd handle these as separate

 

             2      matters to avoid confusion that had occurred

 

             3      previously.

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, I was just --

 

             5           C/M LUMB:  Sorry.

 

             6           THE CHAIRMAN:  -- going to open the public

 

             7      hearings for both of them at the same time.

 

             8           So consider the public hearing open for

 

             9      -342 and -343, but we don't have any speakers

 

            10      on this?

 

            11           MS. LAHMEUR:  No.

 

            12           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  If nothing

 

            13      else, I need a motion on -342.

 

            14           C/M REDMAN:  Motion to move -342.

 

            15           C/M BOYER:  Second.

 

            16           THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion and second

 

            17      on the land use, -342.

 

            18           Please open the ballot.

 

            19           MR. REINGOLD:  (Indicating.)

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry, Mr. Reingold.

 

            21           MR. REINGOLD:  I just want to clarify --

 

            22      because we tend not to use our microphones when

 

            23      we do motions, which is a very typical

 

            24      procedure for our other committee meetings --

 

            25      the motion was by Councilman Redman and

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  10

 

 

 

             1      seconded by Councilmember Boyer.

 

             2           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Sorry.  I'll

 

             3      clarify them from now on.

 

             4           We have a motion and a second.

 

             5           Please open the ballot on -342.

 

             6           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

             7           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

             8           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             9           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            10           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

            11           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

            12           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

            13           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

            15      approved -342.

 

            16           -343.  And this is the zoning, so if you

 

            17      have any ex-parte on this, then -- Ms. Boyer.

 

            18           C/M BOYER:  I have ex-parte communication

 

            19      to declare with Steve Diebenow on July 19th

 

            20      when he was discussing switching from the

 

            21      original industrial zoning to the PUD.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  Thank you.

 

            23           Mr. Redman.

 

            24           C/M REDMAN:  Yes.  I need to declare

 

            25      ex-parte.  I spoke with Mr. Diebenow on the

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  11

 

 

 

             1      16th of July concerning refiling this bill.

 

             2           Thank you.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Anybody else?

 

             4           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  No one.

 

             6           Mr. Kelly, did you need to add anything on

 

             7      this that Mr.  Kresel didn't already cover?

 

             8           MR. KELLY:  This is the companion rezoning

 

             9      to a planned unit development.  This was

 

            10      reviewed by the Department.

 

            11           In essence, this PUD is a developed site

 

            12      currently, approximately five acres.

 

            13      Primarily, the uses allowed under the PUD are

 

            14      the same as Industrial Light uses; however, the

 

            15      addition of a component for the specific user

 

            16      of the site required a -- basically what is

 

            17      considered flares for life safety, vests and

 

            18      things of that nature, in maritime situations

 

            19      and reckoning.

 

            20           So the Department basically reviewed this

 

            21      in the context that it was consistent with the

 

            22      existing Industrial Light zoning within the

 

            23      immediate vicinity which surrounds this, and we

 

            24      do find it consistent.  We feel that the

 

            25      addition of this one use is a small component

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  12

 

 

 

             1      of the overall facility, so therefore find it

 

             2      consistent with the comprehensive plan and the

 

             3      surrounding zoning districts as well.

 

             4           The Planning Commission recommended

 

             5      approval on August 11th with -- subject to --

 

             6      there's six or -- actually five conditions, and

 

             7      I'll read into the record the condition that's

 

             8      being modified.

 

             9           In the letter dated August 11th to Council

 

            10      President Joost, condition 4, which was struck,

 

            11      and condition 6 now has a modification that I

 

            12      believe all the parties have agreed to.  That

 

            13      condition would read, the subject property

 

            14      shall be developed in accordance with the

 

            15      requirements set forth in Subpart 3, Part 12 of

 

            16      the zoning code.  In the event that the

 

            17      development of the subject property would be

 

            18      subject to subpart [sic] per section 656.1209

 

            19      and -- and with the deletion of condition 4 and

 

            20      that revision to condition 6, the Department

 

            21      recommends approval.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

            23           And we don't have anybody here

 

            24      representing this?

 

            25           MR. REINGOLD:  (Indicating.)

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  13

 

 

 

             1           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.

 

             2           MR. REINGOLD:  To the committee, I just

 

             3      want to make note of this because it's awkward.

 

             4      As you noted, there's nobody here.

 

             5           Typically, when we have a PUD rezoning, we

 

             6      have an applicant who agrees to the conditions.

 

             7      Seeing there's no applicant here, I have just

 

             8      one question for staff and one note.

 

             9           At the Planning Commission meeting, was

 

            10      the applicant agreeable to conditions -- what

 

            11      are described in your memo as 1, 2, 3, and 5?

 

            12           MR. KELLY:  Yes, he was.

 

            13           MR. REINGOLD:  All right.  And, in

 

            14      addition, the condition that was modified that

 

            15      Mr. Kelly read into the record, I would just

 

            16      like to note that Mr. Diebenow sent me an email

 

            17      yesterday saying that he was agreeable to the

 

            18      condition.  Specifically, he said, I like the

 

            19      change you have suggested for 2011-342, unless

 

            20      T.R., a/k/a Dr. PUD, has some wrinkle he would

 

            21      like to add.

 

            22           And I heard from Dr. PUD since then, and

 

            23      he is comfortable with the change.  I only make

 

            24      that clear on the record because we don't have

 

            25      an applicant here to get up to say, "I agree to

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  14

 

 

 

             1      the conditions," so I wanted that to be clear,

 

             2      that the applicant had agreed to this.

 

             3           C/M LUMB:  Mr. Chairman.

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

 

             5           Mr. Lumb.

 

             6           C/M LUMB:  Until the discussion began, I

 

             7      did not realize that I had an ex-parte to

 

             8      declare.  I had a very brief conversation with

 

             9      Mr. Diebenow where he made a reference to this.

 

            10      I didn't -- I wasn't even sure what it was by

 

            11      ordinance, but he and I had a very brief

 

            12      discussion and he explained the -- the whole

 

            13      rationale behind the -- the flare thing.

 

            14           Sorry.

 

            15           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  I understand.

 

            16      It happens pretty regularly.

 

            17           All right.  There is an amendment on this.

 

            18      We need it moved.

 

            19           C/M BOYER:  Move the amendment.

 

            20           C/M REDMAN:  Second.

 

            21           THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion from

 

            22      Ms. Boyer and a second from Mr. Redman.

 

            23           All in favor of the amendment, signify by

 

            24      saying aye.

 

            25           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  15

 

 

 

             1           THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.

 

             2           C/M BOYER:  Move the bill.

 

             3           C/M REDMAN:  Second.

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion by Ms. Boyer, second

 

             5      by Mr. Redman.

 

             6           Please open the ballot.

 

             7           (Mr. Deibenow enters the proceedings.)

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  There's Mr. Diebenow.

 

             9           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

            10           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

            11           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            12           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            13           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

            14           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

            15           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

            16           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            17           THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

            18      approved 2011-343.

 

            19           2011-363 is deferred, I believe.

 

            20           And now we have a waiver of road frontage,

 

            21      2011-382.  This is quasi-judicial.  So if

 

            22      anybody has an ex-parte, you want to go ahead

 

            23      and declare it.

 

            24           C/M CARTER:  (Indicating.)

 

            25           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Carter.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  16

 

 

 

             1           C/M CARTER:  I had communications with

 

             2      Mr. Everett, July 19th and August 15th.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Huxford, can you

 

             4      run us through this one?

 

             5           MR. HUXFORD:  Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

 

             6           Application for zoning -- actually

 

             7      application for waiver of reduction of the

 

             8      minimum required road frontage, WRF-11-05, or

 

             9      ordinance 2011-382, is for property at 8580

 

            10      Lenox Avenue.

 

            11           The LUZ Committee did take this item up at

 

            12      their last meeting.  The Planning Department

 

            13      expressed its concerns in that as a general

 

            14      practice we're not supportive of waivers to

 

            15      reduce the frontage down to zero.  However, the

 

            16      LUZ Committee was interested in possibly

 

            17      seeking an approval subject to certain

 

            18      conditions.  And during that review, we

 

            19      discovered that we had some issues with the lot

 

            20      that was going to be up on Lenox Avenue not

 

            21      having sufficient lot area.  And since that

 

            22      time, the applicant has come in, resurveyed the

 

            23      property, fixed that problem, so now the two

 

            24      proposed lots that will come out of this will

 

            25      have sufficient lot area, and so we are --

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  17

 

 

 

             1      we're fine that there will be legal buildable

 

             2      lots if this waiver is granted.

 

             3           We had two conditions that we were

 

             4      discussing.  One was that the address for the

 

             5      new residence would be clearly identified along

 

             6      Lenox Avenue, and the second was to stabilize

 

             7      or improve the accessway to get to the new --

 

             8      newly-created lot.

 

             9           We would also be interested in proposing

 

            10      that -- a third condition, that the lot not be

 

            11      further subdivided.

 

            12           And, with that, we'll leave it to you.

 

            13           Thank you.

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you,

 

            15      Mr. Huxford.

 

            16           So, just to summarize what you said, even

 

            17      though we're showing a PD recommendation of

 

            18      denial, with those conditions, you guys feel

 

            19      comfortable?

 

            20           MR. HUXFORD:  Well, again, as a practice,

 

            21      we're not comfortable endorsing waivers to

 

            22      reduce down to zero.  But should the LUZ

 

            23      Committee wish to proceed in that direction,

 

            24      that would be our advice to you.

 

            25           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you very much,

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  18

 

 

 

             1      sir.

 

             2           We will open the public hearing on this,

 

             3      and I have one speaker card, a Mr. James

 

             4      Everett.

 

             5           AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Indicating.)

 

             6           THE CHAIRMAN:  Come on down, sir.

 

             7           (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Please give your address

 

             9      for the record when you come down here, and you

 

            10      have three minutes.

 

            11           AUDIENCE MEMBER:  James E. Everett, 8526

 

            12      Lenox Avenue.

 

            13           This property is for my daughter and her

 

            14      husband to build a house, so this will be a

 

            15      family situation.  I do not see any need for

 

            16      further subdivision, and the access will be

 

            17      adequate.

 

            18           We talked last time about gravel

 

            19      stabilization of the way to get in.  That's

 

            20      agreeable.  So we can deal with all your

 

            21      requirements.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

            23           MR. EVERETT:  Do you have any questions of

 

            24      me?

 

            25           THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Boyer.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  19

 

 

 

             1           C/M BOYER:  Mr. Everett, for the record,

 

             2      in reviewing the Planning Department report, I

 

             3      see that there are numerous other lots on the

 

             4      street that have been subdivided where there

 

             5      are front and back lots; is that correct?

 

             6           MR. EVERETT:  In that area, yes.

 

             7           C/M BOYER:  Thank you.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Boyer.

 

             9           I have a question of staff.  Could you be

 

            10      a little more specific, for the record, on what

 

            11      you mean when you say stabilize the road and

 

            12      clearly ID'd so that we get -- have an okay

 

            13      from the applicant that is pretty specific as

 

            14      to what he's going to be willing to do.

 

            15           MR. HUXFORD:  Sure.

 

            16           As far as the identification, that would

 

            17      simply be a clearly marked address on the

 

            18      mailbox that I'm sure will be erected along

 

            19      Lenox Avenue, which is easy enough to do.

 

            20           And as far as the stabilization, Sean, I

 

            21      think you had some proposals on that last time.

 

            22           Bear with me for just a moment.

 

            23           MR. EVERETT:  Mr. Chairman, last time --

 

            24           THE CHAIRMAN:  One moment.  Let's -- they

 

            25      were going to say something.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  20

 

 

 

             1           Did you want to say something?

 

             2           MR. HUXFORD:  I think Mr. Carter had

 

             3      something he wanted to say.

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Go ahead,

 

             5      Mr. Carter.

 

             6           C/M CARTER:  What he says -- what y'all

 

             7      said last time -- what did you say on the --

 

             8           MR. EVERETT:  Last time they suggested

 

             9      gravel, mainly because of the two large pecan

 

            10      trees.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, I just wanted

 

            12      to get it specifically --

 

            13           MR. HUXFORD:  Right.  So --

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  -- what areas are going to

 

            15      be graveled and -- and whatever --

 

            16           MR. HUXFORD:  If he's agreeable to the

 

            17      gravel, then a 30-foot-wide easement/driveway

 

            18      access shall be -- it doesn't have to be

 

            19      35 feet wide.  I think we were talking about

 

            20      how much width --

 

            21           MR. EVERETT:  Fifteen feet.

 

            22           MR. HUXFORD:  I think it was going to

 

            23      be -- 15 feet was the actual gravel area, 15

 

            24      feet wide, so the -- the drive would be

 

            25      stabilized with gravel to provide adequate

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  21

 

 

 

             1      access to emergency vehicles prior to the

 

             2      issuance of a permit for the new residence.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Reingold, you're

 

             4      okay with that?  You got it all down there?

 

             5      You're busily scribbling.

 

             6           MR. REINGOLD:  (Nods head.)

 

             7           THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Boyer.

 

             8           C/M BOYER:  Through the Chair to

 

             9      Mr. Huxford, if we had a 35-foot easement with

 

            10      a 15-foot stabilized access, would that take

 

            11      care of the concern that was raised in the

 

            12      report regarding the public health, safety and

 

            13      welfare concern, that we might have difficultly

 

            14      getting fire and rescue access to this

 

            15      property?

 

            16           MR. HUXFORD:  Through the Chair, yes,

 

            17      ma'am, it would.

 

            18           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  Okay.

 

            19           So the applicant has indicated that he is

 

            20      okay with those changes.

 

            21           If there's -- I was going to close the

 

            22      public hearing.

 

            23           Mr. Reingold.

 

            24           MR. REINGOLD:  I'm just trying to make

 

            25      sure I'm keeping up with the committee and

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  22

 

 

 

             1      staff.

 

             2           I heard one condition was that the address

 

             3      for the new residence shall be clearly

 

             4      identified as marked on a mailbox along

 

             5      Lenox Avenue.  The second one was that there

 

             6      shall be a 30-foot-wide easement to Lenox

 

             7      Avenue, which contains a 15-foot-wide driveway

 

             8      access, which shall be stabilized with gravel

 

             9      or a similar material to provide adequate

 

            10      access by emergency vehicles prior to the

 

            11      issuance of a permit for the new residence.

 

            12           And I heard a third issue that was

 

            13      discussed in which -- that there shall be no

 

            14      further subdivision of the entire property

 

            15      denoted as RE number 008769-0000.

 

            16           THE CHAIRMAN:  And if someone chooses to

 

            17      move to grant with that amendment, those will

 

            18      be wrapped up in there.

 

            19           MR. HUXFORD:  Through the -- to the Chair,

 

            20      that's a 35-foot-wide easement, not 30.

 

            21           THE CHAIRMAN:  Is that what he said?

 

            22           MR. HUXFORD:  And that's the legal

 

            23      description that we have.

 

            24           THE CHAIRMAN:  Hold on.

 

            25           Ms. Boyer.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  23

 

 

 

             1           C/M BOYER:  I would move -- based on the

 

             2      evidence that we have heard and -- today, that

 

             3      would resolve the public health and safety

 

             4      concerns that were previously voiced at the

 

             5      Planning Commission, I would move that we grant

 

             6      this subject to the conditions that

 

             7      Mr. Reingold just read into the record.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.

 

             9           We have a amotion on the amendment --

 

            10           C/M REDMAN:  Second.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  -- second from Mr. Redman.

 

            12           All in favor of the amendment --

 

            13      Mr. Reingold.

 

            14           MR. REINGOLD:  Two issues -- I'm sorry, I

 

            15      heard a debate between the 30 and the 35, and

 

            16      then I'll also look to see if the applicant is

 

            17      agreeable to those conditions.

 

            18           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Sir, are you

 

            19      agreeable to the 35-foot easement with 15 feet

 

            20      of gravel?

 

            21           MR. EVERETT:  Yes.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  Okay.

 

            23           We have a motion and a second on the

 

            24      amendment.

 

            25           All in favor of the amendment, say aye.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  24

 

 

 

             1           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

             2           THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.

 

             3           C/M CARTER:  Move the bill as amended.

 

             4           C/M REDMAN:  Second.

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  A motion to grant as

 

             6      amended; is that correct, Mr. Carter?

 

             7           C/M CARTER:  Yes.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Second by Mr. Redman.

 

             9           All right.  We have a motion and a second.

 

            10           Please open the ballot.

 

            11           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

            12           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

            13           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            14           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            15           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

            16           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

            17           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

            18           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            19           THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

            20      approved -- granted the waiver on 2011-382.

 

            21           MR. REINGOLD:  Just one --

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold.

 

            23           MR. REINGOLD:  To the Chair and the

 

            24      committee, I just wanted to also clarify,

 

            25      that -- part of that amendment where -- is a

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  25

 

 

 

             1      revised legal description that's on file

 

             2      because it corrects the issue that was

 

             3      identified last time.  I just wanted to make

 

             4      sure that was clear on the record.

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

             6           All right.  Item number 7, 2011-415, is a

 

             7      rezoning on San Jose Boulevard.  And that is

 

             8      quasi-judicial, so if anybody has any ex-parte

 

             9      they need to declare, now would be a good time.

 

            10           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Well, then, we

 

            12      will open the public hearing on that.

 

            13           Do we have any speakers?

 

            14           MS. LAHMEUR:  (Inaudible.)

 

            15           THE CHAIRMAN:  Good point.

 

            16           Mr. Kelly, why don't you run it through

 

            17      the -- run us through this and then Mr. Skiles

 

            18      can tell us whether he approves of your

 

            19      condition.

 

            20           MR. KELLY:  Thank you.

 

            21           To the Chair and committee, application

 

            22      for rezoning 2011-415 seeks to rezone a

 

            23      previous planned unit development that was

 

            24      approved in 2005 for approximately 22 townhomes

 

            25      with a community clubhouse.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  26

 

 

 

             1           This new PUD proposes Commercial

 

             2      Neighborhood uses on approximately 3.76 acres.

 

             3      The restrictions in the written description

 

             4      have some limitations on specific uses that are

 

             5      not permitted.  Additionally, restrictions on

 

             6      signage and additional landscaping and

 

             7      buffering is provided in the written

 

             8      description.

 

             9           The Planning Commission, again, reviewed

 

            10      this and recommended approval.  Originally,

 

            11      there were nine conditions that were part of

 

            12      that recommendation.  Since that time, the

 

            13      applicant and some of the neighborhood

 

            14      opposition have gotten together with staff as

 

            15      well and made revisions which incorporate a

 

            16      number of conditions that were indicated in the

 

            17      memorandum dated August 11th.  So this now is

 

            18      recommended for approval subject to the four

 

            19      conditions in the memorandum, specifically

 

            20      striking condition 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, and

 

            21      modifying condition 2, which now reads, The

 

            22      subject property shall be developed in

 

            23      accordance with the revised written description

 

            24      dated August 15th, 2011, and that was handed

 

            25      out just before the agenda, so everybody should

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  27

 

 

 

             1      have a copy of that.

 

             2           The Department, again, finds that this --

 

             3      this Commercial Neighborhood use in relation to

 

             4      the surrounding uses on San Jose Boulevard, we

 

             5      do find it compatible with surrounding uses.

 

             6      And the site plan and the conditions placed

 

             7      upon it in the written description as it

 

             8      relates to lighting and buffering will make it

 

             9      very compatible.  In addition, the restrictions

 

            10      on the uses also further promote compatibility

 

            11      with surrounding residential to the rear as

 

            12      well as a church which is immediately south of

 

            13      the subject property.

 

            14           But with those amendments, striking 5, 6,

 

            15      7, 8, 9, and the amendment to the revised

 

            16      written description, the Department is

 

            17      recommending approval.

 

            18           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.

 

            19           Mr. Reingold, you got all that?

 

            20           MR. REINGOLD:  Absolutely, sir.

 

            21           THE CHAIRMAN:  Good.  I love to hear that

 

            22      the Planning Department and the community and

 

            23      the applicant were working all together in

 

            24      order to make everybody happy.

 

            25           Mr. Skiles, could you come up and, first

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  28

 

 

 

             1      of all, give us your address for the record and

 

             2      tell us if you are in agreement with those

 

             3      conditions.

 

             4           (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

             5           AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.

 

             6           It's Doug Skiles, and the address is 2002

 

             7      San Marco Boulevard, Suite 203, Jacksonville,

 

             8      Florida 32207.

 

             9           And we are acceptable to those conditions

 

            10      and we have two more that I'll read in -- and

 

            11      this was discussion that I had with Mr. Arpen

 

            12      and the -- the buyer of the property,

 

            13      Mr. (Inaudible) Patel, is also back here if you

 

            14      have any questions for him.

 

            15           So I guess this would -- I don't know what

 

            16      number they would be, but I'll call them 1 and

 

            17      2.  The first one from today is --

 

            18           MR. KELLY:  Number 5 and 6.

 

            19           MR. SKILES:  I'm sorry, so it would be

 

            20      5 and 6.

 

            21           So number 5, trees planted in the southern

 

            22      uncomplementary land use buffer shall be a

 

            23      minimum two-inch caliper evergreen in a species

 

            24      which will reach a height at maturity of at

 

            25      least 20 feet.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  29

 

 

 

             1           Number 6, individual tenant changing

 

             2      message signs will not scroll and will not

 

             3      change more frequently than once every minute.

 

             4           And we are -- we accept those conditions.

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.

 

             6           Let's make sure Mr. Reingold is cool with

 

             7      all this.  I want to make sure that he gets it

 

             8      down on the record.  He's our scribe.

 

             9           Ms. Boyer, did you want to say something?

 

            10           C/M BOYER:  May I ask a -- may I ask a

 

            11      question of Mr. Kelly while we're waiting?

 

            12           THE CHAIRMAN:  Absolutely.

 

            13           C/M BOYER:  Would you run by the numbers

 

            14      again on the conditions that -- which ones

 

            15      are -- we're taking out?

 

            16           MR. KELLY:  Per the memorandum that's

 

            17      dated August 11th to Council President Joost,

 

            18      on that memorandum, specifically condition 5,

 

            19      6, 7, and 8 were incorporated into the revised

 

            20      written description that's dated today.

 

            21           Condition 9 was struck in light of the

 

            22      existing PUD modification criteria that would

 

            23      otherwise require a PUD to PUD rezoning, due to

 

            24      the -- the substantial configuration change

 

            25      that would be warranted going from commercial

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  30

 

 

 

             1      to residential.  So that was struck and that

 

             2      just defaults back to traditional modification

 

             3      requirements under 341.

 

             4           Conditions 1 is the same as the memo

 

             5      condition.

 

             6           Condition 2 is the revised written

 

             7      description dated today.

 

             8           Condition 3 is the original site plan

 

             9      dated June 6th.

 

            10           Condition 4 is the Development Services

 

            11      Division memorandum.

 

            12           And then condition 5 and 6 were what Doug

 

            13      introduced.

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Reingold.

 

            15           MR. REINGOLD:  The only small change that

 

            16      I would recommend to what would now be, I

 

            17      believe, condition number 6 is that the

 

            18      individual tenant changing message "devices"

 

            19      will not scroll, instead of "signs."  "Changing

 

            20      message device" is a clear term in our zoning

 

            21      code, and I just thought it would be important

 

            22      to use the same terminology.

 

            23           THE CHAIRMAN:  Sounds like a good idea.

 

            24           All right.  Are you okay on everything

 

            25      else?  You got it all?

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  31

 

 

 

             1           MR. REINGOLD:  (Nods head.)

 

             2           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I just want to make

 

             3      sure.

 

             4           C/M REDMAN:  (Indicating.)

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Redman.

 

             6           C/M REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

             7           Why would we go against the ordinance

 

             8      codes that we have on the lights blinking and

 

             9      the -- you know, what our original --

 

            10           MR. REINGOLD:  Through the Chair to

 

            11      Councilmember Redman, this was a condition that

 

            12      the applicant actually presented to the City,

 

            13      that they wanted to have some additional

 

            14      restrictions on their own signs so that they

 

            15      could alleviate probably some of the concerns

 

            16      raised by the neighbors.  It's their own

 

            17      separate agreement that they're comfortable

 

            18      with that they brought to us.

 

            19           C/M REDMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Always willing

 

            21      to accommodate something that's more

 

            22      restrictive if the applicant is supportive.

 

            23           Ms. Boyer.

 

            24           C/M BOYER:  Through the Chair to

 

            25      Mr. Skiles, the conditions that were contained

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  32

 

 

 

             1      in the Planning Department report, are you

 

             2      comfortable if those conditions cannot be

 

             3      modified by a Departmental minor modification

 

             4      process?

 

             5           MR. SKILES:  Which ones specifically would

 

             6      those be?

 

             7           C/M BOYER:  Well, all of -- there were

 

             8      nine conditions.

 

             9           MR. SKILES:  Yes.

 

            10           C/M BOYER:  And of those, I know the first

 

            11      few referenced specifically the written

 

            12      description and things like that.

 

            13           As I sat through that Planning Commission

 

            14      meeting that you were at last week, one of the

 

            15      things that became apparent is that if

 

            16      something is listed specifically as a

 

            17      condition, then it cannot go through a minor

 

            18      modification process.  But if it is

 

            19      incorporated into the written description, it

 

            20      could be changed with staff review and approval

 

            21      as a minor modification and not come back.

 

            22           So since these were negotiated conditions

 

            23      for the benefit of the adjacent property

 

            24      owners, I'm asking you if you're comfortable if

 

            25      they remain as conditions.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  33

 

 

 

             1           MR. SKILES:  Yes.

 

             2           THE CHAIRMAN:  Excellent.  That's a very

 

             3      good point.

 

             4           All right.  We can now close the public

 

             5      hearing.

 

             6           Tracey, you didn't submit a card.  You're

 

             7      good?

 

             8           MR. ARPEN: (Nods head.)

 

             9           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

            10           All right.  We'll close the public

 

            11      hearing.  We have the applicant here, said that

 

            12      he's in agreement with the conditions.

 

            13           I need an amendment.

 

            14           MR. REINGOLD:  (Indicating.)

 

            15           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Reingold, you can't

 

            16      vote.

 

            17           MR. REINGOLD:  I know, I just can't stop

 

            18      myself.  I apologize.

 

            19           This issue wasn't really going to come up

 

            20      initially, except for the fact that if the

 

            21      committee is going in the direction of adding

 

            22      conditions 5, 6, 7, and 8 to the ordinance

 

            23      itself, I would like to raise at least two or

 

            24      three issues, actually, with condition 6, 7,

 

            25      and 8.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  34

 

 

 

             1           Initially, in an e-mail I had sent to the

 

             2      Planning Department and to the applicant,

 

             3      condition number 6 reads that, All

 

             4      monument-style signage shall be externally

 

             5      illuminated.  The way I read that is -- I don't

 

             6      think they intended to require that the signs

 

             7      be externally illuminated.  I think they were

 

             8      trying to say -- is that we don't want them

 

             9      internally illuminated, so I think the wording

 

            10      should be shifted around, that any monument

 

            11      style -- or monument-style signage shall be

 

            12      prohibited from using internal illumination.

 

            13           And then with 7 and 8, it might be best to

 

            14      combine those into just a simple condition that

 

            15      reads, An uncomplementary land use buffer

 

            16      meeting the requirements of section 656.1216,

 

            17      zoning code, and an 8-foot-tall fence shall be

 

            18      provided and maintained along the entire west

 

            19      side of the --

 

            20           MR. KELLY:  East side.

 

            21           MR. REINGOLD:  -- I'm sorry -- east side

 

            22      of the retention pond and the entire south

 

            23      property line.

 

            24           And, with that, I just would like to know

 

            25      if the staff and the applicant are agreeable to

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  35

 

 

 

             1      those changes.

 

             2           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly, Mr. Skiles.

 

             3           MR. KELLY:  That would be acceptable.

 

             4           I mean, our purpose was, again, not to

 

             5      have so many conditions listed.  My issue goes

 

             6      to actually, then, back to the original staff

 

             7      condition number 9, that if the townhome

 

             8      development option is pursued, that that would

 

             9      only require a minor modification and not a

 

            10      PUD.

 

            11           We were originally more restrictive in the

 

            12      deletion of that as an option, so now it's

 

            13      introducing it back as an option to go back to

 

            14      townhomes, so I -- I have a question about

 

            15      that.

 

            16           Again, the -- I won't go into the

 

            17      verification process and minor modification

 

            18      process, but the criteria is in the code as it

 

            19      stands and it's subject to the concurrence of

 

            20      the district councilmember as those come

 

            21      through, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Well, the applicant

 

            23      already said that he's okay with the conditions

 

            24      being part of the ordinance, and I believe that

 

            25      was Ms. Boyer's intent when she was

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  36

 

 

 

             1      questioning, was to clarify that he would know

 

             2      that this is not something that can be later

 

             3      changed in a minor mod.

 

             4           So I'm still waiting for an amendment, if

 

             5      anybody wants to move that amendment.

 

             6           C/M CARTER:  Move the amendment.

 

             7           C/M REDMAN:  Second.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  I have a motion by

 

             9      Mr. Carter, a second by Mr. Redman.

 

            10           Anybody want to speak to it?

 

            11           C/M BOYER:  Yes.

 

            12           THE CHAIRMAN:  Ms. Boyer.

 

            13           C/M BOYER:  Can I clarify the amendment?

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  Sure.

 

            15           C/M BOYER:  As I understand the amendment,

 

            16      it would be moving the two conditions that were

 

            17      referenced on the floor today; adoption of the

 

            18      new August 15th written description; treating

 

            19      conditions 5, 6, 7, and 8 as conditions; and it

 

            20      would be deleting condition 9, as was

 

            21      originally requested; and I believe conditions

 

            22      2 and -- the legal -- condition 1 remains the

 

            23      same and condition 3 remains the same; is that

 

            24      correct?

 

            25           MR. REINGOLD:  (Indicating.)

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  37

 

 

 

             1           THE CHAIRMAN:  Yes, sir.

 

             2           MR. REINGOLD:  The question I have back to

 

             3      the council member is -- I believe condition 4

 

             4      would remain the same, and did you want to use

 

             5      the language proffered by OGC with respect to

 

             6      6, 7, and 8?

 

             7           C/M BOYER:  Yes.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Is everybody

 

             9      comfortable with the language?

 

            10           C/M CARTER:  Yes.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Are you in

 

            12      agreement and --

 

            13           MR. SKILES:  Yes.

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  -- comfortable with the

 

            15      language as it was discussed?

 

            16           MR. SKILES:  Yes.

 

            17           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.

 

            18           All right.  We have a motion by Mr. Carter

 

            19      and a second by Mr. Redman.

 

            20           All in favor of the amendment, signify by

 

            21      saying aye.

 

            22           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

            23           THE CHAIRMAN:  The amendment passes.

 

            24           C/M BOYER:  Move the bill as amended.

 

            25           C/M CARTER:  Second.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  38

 

 

 

             1           THE CHAIRMAN:  Motion by Ms. Boyer, second

 

             2      by Mr. Carter.

 

             3           Please open the ballot.

 

             4           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

             5           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

             6           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             7           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             8           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

             9           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

            10           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

            11           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            12           THE CHAIRMAN:  By your action, you have

 

            13      approved -415.

 

            14           Thank you, Mr. Skiles, Mr. Arpen for

 

            15      coming down.

 

            16           MR. SKILES:  Thank you.

 

            17           THE CHAIRMAN:  Always good to see you,

 

            18      Mr. Arpen.

 

            19           MR. ARPEN:  Good to be back.

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  We miss you.

 

            21           All right.  On to page 4, item number 8,

 

            22      2011-416.  This, again, is a quasi-judicial

 

            23      matter, so if anybody has any ex-parte --

 

            24           C/M LUMB:  Mr. Chairman.

 

            25           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Lumb, go ahead.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  39

 

 

 

             1           C/M LUMB:  I had an ex-parte communication

 

             2      with a Ms. Tammy Whitman (phonetic) and I

 

             3      believe a Ms. Linda Watkins (phonetic).  I was

 

             4      invited to tour the facility.  They gave me a

 

             5      brief explanation of what the purpose was

 

             6      behind this piece of legislation, and I'll save

 

             7      my other comments for after the -- the hearing.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  All right.  Seeing no one

 

             9      else, Mr. Kelly, it looks like we've got a

 

            10      Planning Commission and Planning Department

 

            11      amend and approve.

 

            12           MR. KELLY:  That's correct.

 

            13           Ordinance 2011-416 seeks to rezone

 

            14      approximately 7.22 acres of land from

 

            15      Industrial Light to PUD essentially to allow

 

            16      for some select Industrial Heavy uses

 

            17      encompassing scrap processing, outdoor unclean

 

            18      activity, as well as outdoor storage.  This

 

            19      property, again, is located within the

 

            20      industrial sanctuary.

 

            21           The Department supports this additional

 

            22      intensification of uses.  The land use is Heavy

 

            23      Industrial.  We do have some buffer

 

            24      requirements on the site plan which basically

 

            25      prohibit the outdoor storage of materials

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  40

 

 

 

             1      within a certain distance of the public

 

             2      right-of-ways, and so that is captured on the

 

             3      site plan.

 

             4           Additionally, the Department supports this

 

             5      request subject to the conditions in the

 

             6      memorandum dated August 11th to Council

 

             7      President Joost.  This has been revised

 

             8      somewhat:

 

             9           Condition 1 and 2, as it relates to the

 

            10      legal description, is the same.  Condition 2 is

 

            11      a new revised written description, which I

 

            12      understand is dated today, August 15th [sic],

 

            13      again, encapsulating some of the comments

 

            14      with -- with Dylan, OGC, and the applicant.

 

            15      The site plan is revised also, dated

 

            16      August 3rd, 2011.

 

            17           We struck condition 4 as it related to a

 

            18      review from Development Services.  At this

 

            19      time, the site is currently all developed.  At

 

            20      this point, they're looking at introducing,

 

            21      again, some -- some uses on the interior which

 

            22      wouldn't involve any new construction or

 

            23      impervious surfaces, however --

 

            24           Condition 5 relates, again, to the

 

            25      screening.  I'll read this into the record.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  41

 

 

 

             1      This was negotiated over the course of a week

 

             2      about.  Condition 5 reads, Prior to issuance of

 

             3      a Certificate of Use or commencement of any

 

             4      outdoor storage or processing of scrap not

 

             5      contained within an enclosed structure, a

 

             6      landscape plan for property abutting City

 

             7      right-of-way for West Church Street shall be

 

             8      submitted for review and approval of the

 

             9      Planning and Development Department.

 

            10           All required landscaping material and

 

            11      visual screening of the West Church Street

 

            12      right-of-way shall meet the buffer material

 

            13      requirements of Section 656.1216 of the Zoning

 

            14      Code within a 10-foot buffer strip provided the

 

            15      buffer strip may include structures, accessways

 

            16      and signs, and a chain-link fence with slats

 

            17      may be utilized.  No visual screening is

 

            18      required for accessway gates on West Church in

 

            19      front of the employee/public parking area.  All

 

            20      landscaping and screening shall be installed

 

            21      prior to commencement of any outdoor storage or

 

            22      scrap processing use.  Landscaping shall be

 

            23      installed and maintained between the fence and

 

            24      the right-of-way street edge [sic].

 

            25      Landscaping placed in the right-of-way shall be

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  42

 

 

 

             1      subject to review and approval of the Planning

 

             2      and Development Department.

 

             3           With those -- with that revision of the

 

             4      fifth condition, the Department is supporting

 

             5      this request.

 

             6           (Councilman Brown assumes the Chair.)

 

             7           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Dylan.

 

             8           MR. REINGOLD:  One question for staff.

 

             9           This is probably just way too nit-picky,

 

            10      but at the end of that last condition, in the

 

            11      last sentence, it was, landscaping shall be

 

            12      installed and maintained between the fence and

 

            13      the right-of-way "or" street edge.  You had

 

            14      read it as the "right-of-way street edge."  Was

 

            15      there supposed to be an "or" in there or was

 

            16      that removed for a particular reason?

 

            17           MR. KELLY:  No.  The "or" stays.

 

            18           MR. REINGOLD:  The "or" stays.

 

            19           Thank you, sir.

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  The public hearing

 

            21      is now open.  Would you give your name and

 

            22      address for the record.

 

            23           AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good afternoon,

 

            24      Mr. Chairman.

 

            25           Mack McCuller, 225 Water Street,

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  43

 

 

 

             1      representing the applicant.

 

             2           I'm here to answer any questions unless

 

             3      there's opposition, in which case I'll reserve

 

             4      my time.

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I just want to -- if

 

             6      you can catch me up, do we have any opposition?

 

             7           MS. LAHMEUR:  No.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  I do not have any other

 

             9      cards.

 

            10           Planning is in support of this?

 

            11           MR. HUXFORD:  (Nods head.)

 

            12           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We'll unclose

 

            13      [sic] -- we don't have any questions?

 

            14           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            15           THE CHAIRMAN:  I'll unclose the public

 

            16      hearing.

 

            17           Committee discussion?

 

            18           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            19           THE CHAIRMAN:  No discussion for the

 

            20      committee.

 

            21           A motion on the amendment.

 

            22           C/M BOYER:  Move the amendment.

 

            23           C/M CARTER:  Second.

 

            24           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a motion by

 

            25      Boyer second by Doyle.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  44

 

 

 

             1           All in favor.

 

             2           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  No nays.  The amendment

 

             4      carries.

 

             5           Do we have a --

 

             6           C/M CARTER:  Move the bill as amended.

 

             7           C/M BOYER:  Second.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a motion to

 

             9      move the bill as amended by Doyle, second by --

 

            10      did you have to say something?

 

            11           MR. REINGOLD:  No.

 

            12           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Boyer.

 

            13           Open the ballot.

 

            14           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

            15           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

            16           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            17           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

            18           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

            19           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

            20           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

            21           MS. LAHMEUR:  Five yeas, zero nay.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  By your actions, you

 

            23      have approved 2011-416.

 

            24           MR. McCULLER:  Thank you.

 

            25           THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, sir.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  45

 

 

 

             1           Item 9, 2011-443.  Can we get --

 

             2           C/M BOYER:  Move the bill.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a motion to

 

             4      move the bill.

 

             5           Do we have a second?

 

             6           C/M LUMB:  Second.

 

             7           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a second by

 

             8      Mr. Lumb.

 

             9           Do we have discussion?  Yes, we do.  We

 

            10      have Mr. Redman.

 

            11           Mr. Redman.

 

            12           C/M REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

            13           This bill is to seek -- increasing the

 

            14      entertainment zone downtown, which would allow

 

            15      restaurants, bars to have their product out on

 

            16      the sidewalk, tables, chairs, serve alcohol in

 

            17      an area -- we'd be extending this -- what is

 

            18      currently now Adams Street is the entertainment

 

            19      zone, and this bill would extend this from

 

            20      Newnan to Main Street and up Market Street --

 

            21      let me see -- to Forsyth and Market Street from

 

            22      Bay to Forsyth, but it -- anyway, this is

 

            23      extending the entertainment area up into the

 

            24      church district farther, which would put the --

 

            25      this directly across the street from where the

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  46

 

 

 

             1      church district starts.

 

             2           Being the councilperson for the core area

 

             3      of downtown Jacksonville, I -- I want to see

 

             4      Jacksonville, downtown, to grow and be a

 

             5      vibrant area, but I think we need to look at

 

             6      other things other than just bars downtown.  I

 

             7      mean, I -- this is good entertainment on

 

             8      Bay Street and it's flourishing on Friday and

 

             9      Saturday nights, I understand, and maybe other

 

            10      nights too, but we have to look after the

 

            11      families as well.  We need family entertainment

 

            12      downtown.  We need things for the families to

 

            13      do downtown.  And by doing this and moving it

 

            14      up into -- closer to the church area I think

 

            15      would be a mistake.

 

            16           I know -- and one of the problems I have

 

            17      with this -- some of the bars have been doing

 

            18      this already illegally.  I know the one there

 

            19      on the corner of Market Street and -- wherever

 

            20      that is -- Forsyth, have been doing this in the

 

            21      past.  And when -- I ride a bicycle around

 

            22      downtown a lot.  I see women with -- pushing

 

            23      baby buggies, strollers, they move out on the

 

            24      sidewalk with all this and you can't get by.

 

            25      You have to go into the street to get around.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  47

 

 

 

             1      And the ones that are existing, I need -- I

 

             2      think we need to regulate them more so that we

 

             3      can have room for the pedestrians.

 

             4           So I would encourage my colleagues to not

 

             5      support this and vote more towards things that

 

             6      would be good family entertainment.

 

             7           Thank you.

 

             8           THE CHAIRMAN:  Boyer and then Lumb.

 

             9           C/M BOYER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

            10           Through the Chair, I had a question that I

 

            11      had sent in an e-mail and I'm not sure that --

 

            12      if I received an answer, I didn't see it.

 

            13           And I voted for this earlier today, but my

 

            14      question really was, in the included expanded

 

            15      area, how many residential dwelling units did

 

            16      we have and was there -- were there

 

            17      restrictions on the time that the bars were

 

            18      open and things like that, how much was it

 

            19      going to impact the existing residences that

 

            20      we're trying to encourage downtown?  And the

 

            21      response that I got was, that's controlled by

 

            22      zoning.

 

            23           So, I guess, if -- if that is the answer,

 

            24      then I'm going to direct the question to

 

            25      Mr. Kelly and get the answer in that regard,

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  48

 

 

 

             1      but I do have a concern or an interest at

 

             2      least, as we expand the area, that we not have

 

             3      an adverse impact on the dwelling units that

 

             4      we're trying to encourage downtown.

 

             5           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly.

 

             6           MR. KELLY:  The zoning wouldn't regulate

 

             7      the hours of operation of the businesses.  I'll

 

             8      defer to Eric with his expertise on the -- on

 

             9      the downtown overlay and the requirements

 

            10      within that.

 

            11           MR. LINDSTROM:  Eric Lindstrom, JEDC.

 

            12           I did respond to your e-mail.  I'm not

 

            13      sure what happened to it, but I apologize if

 

            14      you didn't get it, but I did make an attempt to

 

            15      answer your questions.

 

            16           We're trying to promote residential

 

            17      ourselves as well.  Residential is very

 

            18      important to downtown.  The thing to remember

 

            19      is, when we created the sidewalk cafe ordinance

 

            20      back in 1996 -- it's been around for 15

 

            21      years -- it applies to the entire downtown

 

            22      area, not just to the area that we're talking

 

            23      about today.  That did allow restaurants to

 

            24      apply for these sidewalk cafes, and those

 

            25      restaurants could serve alcohol.  So as long as

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  49

 

 

 

             1      51 percent of your sales came from food and

 

             2      beverages that were nonalcoholic, you could

 

             3      apply for a sidewalk cafe and your patrons

 

             4      still could go outside with an alcoholic drink

 

             5      and sit at that table.

 

             6           What we did in 2007, as a result of the

 

             7      Super Bowl, we had a number of makeshift bars

 

             8      go in these buildings on Bay Street.  It turned

 

             9      out to be kind of a vision for people when they

 

            10      realized -- when they had the large crowds

 

            11      walking up and down Bay Street for the

 

            12      Super Bowl, that something like that should

 

            13      happen on a regular basis on Bay Street within

 

            14      those buildings.  Along came a couple of

 

            15      operators from the beaches who opened up the

 

            16      first couple of bars, Mark's and the Dive Bar,

 

            17      and then there was a number of others that came

 

            18      along after that and they wanted to be able to

 

            19      do the same thing that restaurants wanted to

 

            20      do, which is to be able to apply for a cafe

 

            21      permit and allow their patrons to sit on the

 

            22      sidewalk.  It allowed that business to increase

 

            23      its business by being able to do that, but it

 

            24      allowed us to activate that street, especially

 

            25      at night because a lot of people feel very

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  50

 

 

 

             1      unsafe walking down streets that don't have any

 

             2      activity going on, which we had a lot of that

 

             3      in downtown Jacksonville.

 

             4           Once we allowed these bars to apply for

 

             5      these permits, you've got people out on the

 

             6      street, people feel comfortable walking down

 

             7      those streets at night because there's people

 

             8      out there to -- you know, if they did have a

 

             9      problem, there's somebody to -- you know, to

 

            10      call to or what have you, plus the bars also

 

            11      have doormen who keep a -- you know, a watch on

 

            12      that street, and they have close relationships

 

            13      with JSO.  So if there are trouble-makers,

 

            14      they're able to work with JSO and get them to

 

            15      come deal with the situation, you know, pretty

 

            16      quickly, and it allows JSO to focus on other

 

            17      things when there aren't any problems going on.

 

            18      So it -- it kind of hits both fronts, safety,

 

            19      plus helps businesses expand.

 

            20           And later in 2007 -- I don't know, some of

 

            21      you might remember that we updated our action

 

            22      plan.  We had a number of committees look at

 

            23      various things in downtown that needed to be

 

            24      improved upon.  One of those was retail, and

 

            25      that committee had looked at the various

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  51

 

 

 

             1      components of downtown, the core, the

 

             2      waterfront, around Florida Theatre, and they

 

             3      concluded that the best way to deal with the

 

             4      Florida Theatre and the patrons who park quite

 

             5      a bit of distances to get back and forth and at

 

             6      night -- it's kind of unsafe -- was to promote

 

             7      not only restaurants but to allow the bars to

 

             8      apply for these sidewalk cafe permits as well

 

             9      to liven up those streets so people feel safe

 

            10      walking back and forth to the Florida Theatre.

 

            11      It also gave people going to the Florida

 

            12      Theatre more venues to go to without having to

 

            13      drive their car somewhere else.

 

            14           So that -- that's the primary purpose for

 

            15      expanding the area.  We're not going that far.

 

            16      We're only going to Forsyth Street, in front of

 

            17      the Florida Theatre, and then one block up to

 

            18      Adams, which is where the Burrito Gallery and

 

            19      Indochine restaurant -- and there's a new bar

 

            20      opening up where the old London Bridge is,

 

            21      which is called Burro Bar.  And then down the

 

            22      street from that, to the south, is a bar called

 

            23      Lit.  They would all like to do

 

            24      street-cafe-type operations in front of their

 

            25      bars to liven up those streets.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  52

 

 

 

             1           I've been working with a number of bar

 

             2      owners and restaurant owners who would like

 

             3      to -- you know, to get that going, to liven up

 

             4      this area around the Florida Theatre, so

 

             5      you'll -- you'll notice -- I sent this map

 

             6      around that kind of shows the area that we want

 

             7      to expand in.  It's a very limited area.  We're

 

             8      already doing it on Bay Street.  It hasn't

 

             9      created the problems they originally envisioned

 

            10      it would when we brought that ordinance to

 

            11      council back in '07.

 

            12           So we're just -- we're just trying to stay

 

            13      with our action plan, which is to create this

 

            14      activity around the Florida Theatre to get

 

            15      the -- you know, to get things going,

 

            16      especially at night.  So that's the reason

 

            17      we're just expanding just a block, a block and

 

            18      a half up.  We're still two blocks from the

 

            19      church district.

 

            20           Another thing you've got to remember too

 

            21      is the only people that can apply for a

 

            22      sidewalk cafe permit is one that's actually

 

            23      licensed to have the sale of liquor in the

 

            24      first place.  So they would have to come to

 

            25      this committee to get that license, to get that

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  53

 

 

 

             1      zoning approval first.  So if you had an issue

 

             2      with that bar or restaurant, you could deny

 

             3      them at that point in time.  This is secondary,

 

             4      this ordinance that we're talking about today.

 

             5      So they have to be an actual approved bar

 

             6      first, then they could come in and apply for a

 

             7      sidewalk cafe permit.

 

             8           C/M BOYER:  Thank you.  I appreciate that

 

             9      response.

 

            10           And I also assume that if there were

 

            11      residents who had serious concerns about it, we

 

            12      would have heard from some of them or some of

 

            13      them would have shown up.

 

            14           MR. LINDSTROM:  That's correct.

 

            15           Most of them kind of like the activity

 

            16      because it makes them feel better when they

 

            17      walk around at night themselves.

 

            18           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Lumb and then

 

            19      Mr. Redman for the second time.

 

            20           C/M LUMB:  Forgive me here.  The tumblers

 

            21      are beginning to fall into place.

 

            22           So when we say "cafe," in this particular

 

            23      case, we're permitting bars that don't serve

 

            24      any food to be serving outside, correct?

 

            25           MR. LINDSTROM:  On Bay Street, that's

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  54

 

 

 

             1      correct.

 

             2           C/M LUMB:  On Bay Street?

 

             3           MR. LINDSTROM:  Yes.

 

             4           C/M LUMB:  There's no obligation for

 

             5      them --

 

             6           MR. LINDSTROM:  We're going to expand that

 

             7      to the -- to the areas that I --

 

             8           C/M LUMB:  Right.

 

             9           MR. LINDSTROM:  -- showed you all on the

 

            10      map --

 

            11           C/M LUMB:  Up to Adams?

 

            12           MR. LINDSTROM:  -- which is up to Forsyth

 

            13      and just a block and a half of Adams.

 

            14           C/M LUMB:  So there's no obligation or

 

            15      duty that they have to serve food?  These are

 

            16      bars that would have the --

 

            17           MR. LINDSTROM:  They're bars.

 

            18           C/M LUMB:  -- option to apply for the

 

            19      permit to basically serve alcohol outdoors?

 

            20           MR. LINDSTROM:  Correct.

 

            21           C/M LUMB:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Redman.

 

            23           C/M REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

            24           You know, the bars that serve the alcohol

 

            25      outdoors, if -- if we're going to pass this, if

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  55

 

 

 

             1      we do, I think we need to amend it so at least

 

             2      it wouldn't be on a Sunday afternoon, on a

 

             3      Sunday -- on Sundays, because I know I drive

 

             4      downtown to church every Sunday and you see

 

             5      them standing on a corner, standing, sitting

 

             6      all over the sidewalk, and have already in the

 

             7      past, which is not a good sight going to --

 

             8      going to church.

 

             9           THE CHAIRMAN:  If I could, Mr. Lindstrom,

 

            10      hearing the request from the district council

 

            11      [sic], it raised -- that does raise a concern

 

            12      for me.

 

            13           What are the hours for Sunday?

 

            14           MR. LINDSTROM:  We don't regulate hours

 

            15      through the cafe permit program.  That's

 

            16      dictated by their alcohol permit, I would

 

            17      imagine, as well as their -- you know, if

 

            18      there's any condition with their normal zoning

 

            19      approval of the operation in the first place.

 

            20           THE CHAIRMAN:  Right.

 

            21           MR. LINDSTROM:  Like I said before, you

 

            22      know, to do a bar downtown, you'd have to go

 

            23      through a waiver of distance review and that

 

            24      sort of thing with the Planning Department, who

 

            25      would bring that to this committee.  So the bar

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  56

 

 

 

             1      would have to get permitted through zoning

 

             2      first, and I think that's when they would get

 

             3      into hours and that sort of thing.

 

             4           This is just allowing them to use the

 

             5      sidewalk, once they are a permitted entity with

 

             6      the City.  So they've got to -- they've got to

 

             7      come through you-all to be permitted as a bar

 

             8      first, which has nothing to do with the

 

             9      sidewalk vending permit, so that -- that's

 

            10      where hours would come into play.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Redman, does

 

            12      that -- Mr. Redman.

 

            13           C/M REDMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

            14           The other issue of the space on the

 

            15      sidewalk, do we have -- at this point, are we

 

            16      regulated to how much space we have to leave

 

            17      for pedestrians --

 

            18           MR. LINDSTROM:  Yes.

 

            19           C/M REDMAN:  -- on that sidewalk?

 

            20           And is there any enforcement of this?

 

            21           MR. LINDSTROM:  Yes, there is.

 

            22           I mean, they have to maintain a 4-foot

 

            23      width to allow pedestrians to pass if it's a

 

            24      narrow sidewalk.

 

            25           Typically, we try to steer them toward

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  57

 

 

 

             1      12-foot-wide sidewalks so they can do their

 

             2      operation -- because their operation has to

 

             3      front the front of their building anyway.  They

 

             4      can't extend it out to the edge of the street

 

             5      because of liquor license requirements, unlike

 

             6      a cafe.  A cafe can move it out to the street

 

             7      edge.  Some of you may have seen some that are

 

             8      out past, you know, the front of the building.

 

             9      They're out toward the curb, whereas with the

 

            10      bars, they can't do that.  They have to keep it

 

            11      right up against the front of the building and

 

            12      then cordon it off with, you know, some sort of

 

            13      defining element, like planters or whatever

 

            14      they want to use.

 

            15           C/M REDMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

            16           I can't support this, but y'all make your

 

            17      own judgment.

 

            18           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Before I -- I'll go

 

            19      ahead and -- Mr. Holt.

 

            20           C/M HOLT:  Well, I was going to try to

 

            21      amend it in a way that would make Mr. Redman

 

            22      feel a little more comfortable, the line he was

 

            23      going down as far as limiting the hours, that

 

            24      they could use the sidewalk on Sundays to -- no

 

            25      earlier than 6 p.m. or something like that, but

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  58

 

 

 

             1      if -- if you don't feel like that's going to

 

             2      make a -- something you can support, then

 

             3      there's no point in that.

 

             4           And if you wanted to speak to me on that,

 

             5      that's fine.

 

             6           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Redman.

 

             7           C/M REDMAN:  Thank you.

 

             8           I mean, I think it should be 7 p.m. if you

 

             9      were going to do it, but I still can't support

 

            10      it, but thanks for the suggestion.

 

            11           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Mr. Lumb, any other

 

            12      questions?  I still have you on the queue here

 

            13      and I'm trying to figure out --

 

            14           C/M LUMB:  Yeah.  Are you saying -- to

 

            15      staff, would we be able to amend this to --

 

            16      with the proviso that the service of alcohol on

 

            17      sidewalks couldn't begin before 6 p.m. on a

 

            18      Sunday?

 

            19           I'm not the attorney here, so I don't -- I

 

            20      don't know what we're allowed to -- you know,

 

            21      what is the -- what's within our purview.

 

            22           MR. REINGOLD:  If that were the

 

            23      (inaudible) of the council -- or the committee,

 

            24      I would certainly work with you as to figure

 

            25      out a way to get what you want into the

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  59

 

 

 

             1      ordinance code.

 

             2           C/M LUMB:  I would like to make a motion

 

             3      to amend, that the -- for the service of

 

             4      alcohol on sidewalks in the e zone on Sundays,

 

             5      that they not be allowed to serve alcohol

 

             6      before 6 p.m. in the evening on Sundays.

 

             7           THE CHAIRMAN:  Do we have a second?

 

             8           MR. KELLY:  To the Chair, just to clarify,

 

             9      one of the things -- and we keep hearing it and

 

            10      I get confused sometimes because we deal with

 

            11      zoning exceptions that relate to outside sales

 

            12      and service of alcohol and -- and when you look

 

            13      at a restaurant and they have an outdoor

 

            14      seating area and they have service out there.

 

            15           In this instance, the sidewalk cafes,

 

            16      there's no actual direct service from the bar

 

            17      to the area.  It's -- a customer comes in and

 

            18      would get a drink or something and go outside

 

            19      and take it out to that area, so there's --

 

            20      it's no direct service.  It's a little less

 

            21      intense than that.  It's just an optional

 

            22      thing, basically.

 

            23           C/M LUMB:  Are you saying there's no way

 

            24      we could restrict it, the exercise of that

 

            25      option on a Sunday prior to 6 p.m., or are you

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  60

 

 

 

             1      saying it would be problematic?

 

             2           MR. KELLY:  No, that wouldn't be

 

             3      problematic at all.  I just wanted to explain

 

             4      the service itself was not actual direct

 

             5      service to the customer out on the sidewalk,

 

             6      that it was -- it was just up to the customer

 

             7      to take their drink to the sidewalk.

 

             8           C/M LUMB:  But, historically -- through

 

             9      the Chair, but, historically, the City has

 

            10      exercised its police powers by saying -- by

 

            11      restricting the public or outside consumption

 

            12      of alcohol on City property and so that we

 

            13      would simply be saying in the case of these

 

            14      cafes that were permitted for outside service

 

            15      that they would -- that that permit would be

 

            16      restricted in such a way as that on Sundays

 

            17      their patrons would not be allowed to exercise

 

            18      that option until 6 p.m., and we could do that?

 

            19           MR. KELLY:  Yes, you could do that.

 

            20           C/M LUMB:  Thank you.

 

            21           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  There was a motion.

 

            22      Do we have a second?

 

            23           C/M BOYER:  Second.

 

            24           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Dylan.

 

            25           MR. REINGOLD:  I apologize.  I'm coming a

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  61

 

 

 

             1      little late to this game.

 

             2           If -- I wouldn't mind just hearing the

 

             3      amendment one more time, and the reason being

 

             4      is I'm going through the downtown sidewalk cafe

 

             5      provisions -- and certainly Mr. Lindstrom is

 

             6      probably much more familiar with them than I

 

             7      am.  I'm trying to get a sense of, do you want

 

             8      to prevent a -- have an hour -- or limitation

 

             9      on the bars serving alcohol outdoors but not

 

            10      have any type of restriction on any of the

 

            11      other downtown sidewalk cafes?  I just want to

 

            12      make a clarification of that.

 

            13           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Lumb.

 

            14           C/M LUMB:  Meaning do we -- do I -- as

 

            15      part of the amendment, inclusive of that, do I

 

            16      want to place a similar restriction on

 

            17      restaurants?

 

            18           MR. REINGOLD:  (Nods head.)

 

            19           C/M LUMB:  Yes, I think I would --

 

            20           MR. REINGOLD:  To the Chair --

 

            21           C/M LUMB:  -- for the sake of consistency.

 

            22           MR. REINGOLD:  Okay.  But -- and then I've

 

            23      got a follow-up issue.

 

            24           If the amendment is to have a restriction

 

            25      on everybody serving alcohol outdoors on Sunday

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  62

 

 

 

             1      until -- I believe 7 p.m. or 6 p.m. -- 6 p.m.,

 

             2      then you've got restaurants that people could

 

             3      be outside, but they just can't take their

 

             4      drinks outside, but you would have -- bars

 

             5      essentially would be prohibited.  And my

 

             6      question is, to the committee, you might want

 

             7      to talk to or ask staff is -- how they might

 

             8      feel that might prohibit the current existing

 

             9      restaurants that are operating now and how they

 

            10      function on Sundays.

 

            11           C/M LUMB:  Excellent point.

 

            12           What's the -- what's the rule that applies

 

            13      today for restaurants, not bars, restaurants?

 

            14           MR. REINGOLD:  Eric.

 

            15           MR. LINDSTROM:  I wasn't prepared for that

 

            16      question, so I'm going through the code here to

 

            17      figure out if there is any.  I don't think --

 

            18      the sidewalk cafe doesn't get into hours, once

 

            19      again.  I mean, the hours would be tied to the

 

            20      hours of the operation.  And they have already

 

            21      set that before they even apply for the permit,

 

            22      so --

 

            23           C/M LUMB:  What's the -- if you have one

 

            24      of those permits, what's the -- let's say a

 

            25      bar, what is the earliest that a bar -- at

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  63

 

 

 

             1      least permits -- what's the earliest they

 

             2      begin -- can begin serving alcohol?  They have

 

             3      to shut down at a certain time in the morning.

 

             4      What time is the earliest they're allowed to

 

             5      reopen?  Anybody know?

 

             6           MR. REINGOLD:  To the council member, and

 

             7      I'm just shooting from the hip on this one, but

 

             8      I believe Chapter 154 of our ordinance code

 

             9      governs the hours of sale of alcohol.

 

            10           Hours of sale, Section 154.301.  They're

 

            11      essentially Monday through Sunday from 6 a.m.

 

            12      until 2 a.m.; however, you can remain open

 

            13      between 2 a.m. and 6 a.m. as long as no

 

            14      alcoholic beverages are sold.  That is a

 

            15      general hours of operation restriction on the

 

            16      sale of alcoholic beverages throughout the

 

            17      city.

 

            18           C/M LUMB:  Repeat those times again.

 

            19           MR. REINGOLD:  Essentially you can't serve

 

            20      alcohol or sell alcohol between 2 a.m. and

 

            21      6 a.m.

 

            22           C/M LUMB:  So at 6 a.m. they can crank up

 

            23      and go back to biz?

 

            24           MR. REINGOLD:  I'm just looking at

 

            25      Section 154.301, and that's the restrictions.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  64

 

 

 

             1      I'm not sure if there are any other

 

             2      restrictions elsewhere.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Kelly.

 

             4           MR. KELLY:  I just wanted to point out --

 

             5      I mean, sidewalk cafes, not only downtown,

 

             6      are -- are fairly common.  They're common in

 

             7      other parts of the city that wouldn't have the

 

             8      same regulations imposed on them.  In San Marco

 

             9      there's a sidewalk cafe area designation, as

 

            10      well as King and -- Park and King in Riverside,

 

            11      St. Johns Avenue in Avondale, the Five Points

 

            12      area.  They currently have the ability for

 

            13      sidewalk cafes as well, and it seems a little

 

            14      ironic to impose a stricter condition in an

 

            15      entertainment district, you know, downtown

 

            16      overlay, than what would be imposed in areas

 

            17      that are predominantly surrounded by

 

            18      residential.

 

            19           C/M LUMB:  Through the Chair -- and we

 

            20      talk about Five Points, San Marco.  We're

 

            21      talking about cafes, we're talking about

 

            22      establishments that serve food -- at least

 

            23      51 percent of their sales, food, and the

 

            24      remainder alcohol, correct?  We're not talking

 

            25      about bars?

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  65

 

 

 

             1           MR. KELLY:  No, there are bars included in

 

             2      that -- in those areas.

 

             3           THE CHAIRMAN:  If I could exercise a

 

             4      privilege because it seems like we're

 

             5      definitely going down a -- what I consider a

 

             6      slippery slope, and also just thinking about

 

             7      one other probably prime time on Sunday

 

             8      downtown or at any restaurant or bar, during

 

             9      football season those games are 1 o'clock, and

 

            10      so we're really starting to -- as I heard,

 

            11      we're placing a requirement or criteria in

 

            12      different areas of the city, and I'm sure we

 

            13      have the same structure or setup of churches

 

            14      and people, passersby in those areas, such as

 

            15      San Marco and other areas that currently allow

 

            16      for cafes on the sidewalk.

 

            17           I'm leaning towards -- unless there's, you

 

            18      know, some overwhelming convincing reason why

 

            19      we should not -- I think it's a great thing.  I

 

            20      do understand that -- the district councilman's

 

            21      concerns, but I would like to -- because we

 

            22      are -- and not that alcohol is going to be

 

            23      the -- be in the driver's seat of what makes

 

            24      downtown or break downtown, but I would like

 

            25      to -- my recommendation is to defer it, to give

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  66

 

 

 

             1      JEDC an opportunity -- Mr. Eric, to speak with

 

             2      Mr. Redman or whomever, the entire body, give

 

             3      you -- just give you that opportunity, and we

 

             4      come back the next committee meeting.  I just

 

             5      hate to see us move forward -- we can move

 

             6      forward and vote it up or down, that's fine,

 

             7      but I just -- it just seems like it's a lot of

 

             8      uncertainties out here at this particular time

 

             9      and I don't know whether we're ready to move

 

            10      forward with this or not.

 

            11           C/M LUMB:  Motion to defer.

 

            12           C/M HOLT:  Second.

 

            13           THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a --

 

            14           C/M HOLT:  (Inaudible.)

 

            15           THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion to defer

 

            16      by Mr. Lumb, a second by Mr. Holt.

 

            17           All in favor.

 

            18           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

            19           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Do we have any nays?

 

            20           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            21           THE CHAIRMAN:  I didn't hear any.

 

            22           Thank you.

 

            23           We're going to defer this particular item,

 

            24      2011-443, until the next agenda meeting.

 

            25           MR. REINGOLD:  The next meeting.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  67

 

 

 

             1           THE CHAIRMAN:  The next meeting.

 

             2           Thank you, sir.

 

             3           All right.  Let's move on to item number

 

             4      10.  My understanding, this is going to be a

 

             5      public hearing; am I correct?

 

             6           MR. REINGOLD:  Yes.

 

             7           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  So we want to go

 

             8      ahead and declare ex-parte.

 

             9           MR. REINGOLD:  Not --

 

            10           THE CHAIRMAN:  We don't need to do that.

 

            11           We're just going to go straight to the --

 

            12      open the public hearing.

 

            13           MR. REINGOLD:  No.

 

            14           THE CHAIRMAN:  We're going to -- go ahead.

 

            15           MR. SMITH:  Yes.

 

            16           Mr. Chairman, members of the committee,

 

            17      ordinance 2011-491 is an application for a

 

            18      second amendment to a performance-based

 

            19      development agreement for the purpose of

 

            20      reserving traffic circulation capacity.

 

            21           The parcel consists of approximately

 

            22      13.3 acres and is located on Shad Road, between

 

            23      Florida Mining Boulevard West and Hood Road

 

            24      South.  This proposed amendment has

 

            25      approximately 86,965 enclosed square feet of

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  68

 

 

 

             1      warehouse uses still remaining to be built.

 

             2      The duration of the development agreement is

 

             3      for an additional five years.  This agreement

 

             4      was originally approved in 2001, first

 

             5      amendment.  That was for five years.  The first

 

             6      amendment extended that five years and then

 

             7      this would also extend it another five years,

 

             8      so --

 

             9           The development agreement is subject to a

 

            10      performance schedule and an annual renewal fee

 

            11      each year that the agreement is in effect for

 

            12      the remaining undeveloped, enclosed area.

 

            13           Staff has reviewed the application for

 

            14      compliance with 655 -- Chapter 655, Ordinance

 

            15      Code, and does have a recommendation to

 

            16      approve.

 

            17           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We're going to open

 

            18      the public hearing.  We have one speaker,

 

            19      Kathryn Whittington.

 

            20           (Audience member approaches the podium.)

 

            21           THE CHAIRMAN:  If you can give your name

 

            22      and address for the record.

 

            23           AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Kathryn Whittington,

 

            24      Pappas, Meltcalf, Jenks & Miller.  Address is

 

            25      245 Riverside Avenue in Jacksonville.

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  69

 

 

 

             1           I'm here for questions only.  I don't have

 

             2      anything to add to the staff report if you have

 

             3      no questions for me.

 

             4           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  No questions?

 

             5           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

             6           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I do have -- let

 

             7      me -- is this pertaining -- Mr. Redman, do you

 

             8      have a question for this one right now?

 

             9           C/M REDMAN:  No, I'm sorry.

 

            10           THE CHAIRMAN:  No?  Let me take it off my

 

            11      thing.

 

            12           Okay.  Thank you.

 

            13           I don't have any questions.  That's going

 

            14      to close the public hearing.

 

            15           C/M BOYER:  Move the bill.

 

            16           C/M CARTER:  Second.

 

            17           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We have a motion to

 

            18      move the bill by Ms. Boyer, second by

 

            19      Mr. Carter.

 

            20           Do we have any questions?

 

            21           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            22           THE CHAIRMAN:  All in favor -- we're going

 

            23      to put it on the ballot.

 

            24           We're going to open the ballot.

 

            25           (Committee ballot opened.)

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  70

 

 

 

             1           C/M BROWN:  (Votes yea.)

 

             2           C/M HOLT:  (Votes yea.)

 

             3           C/M BOYER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             4           C/M CARTER:  (Votes yea.)

 

             5           C/M LUMB:  (Votes yea.)

 

             6           C/M REDMAN:  (Votes Yea.)

 

             7           (Committee ballot closed.)

 

             8           MS. LAHMEUR:  Six yeas, zero nay.

 

             9           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  By your actions, you

 

            10      have approved 2011-491.

 

            11           Item numbers 11 through -- all the way

 

            12      through 29 are second rerefers.

 

            13           Do we have any other business?

 

            14           COMMITTEE MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            15           STAFF MEMBERS:  (No response.)

 

            16           THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  I do want to extend

 

            17      an apology for being late, and I thank the

 

            18      vice chairman, Mr. Holt, for sitting in for me.

 

            19      I had an emergency that I had to attend to, but

 

            20      I do appreciate the support.

 

            21           I think that that adjourns the meeting.

 

            22           Thank you.

 

            23           (The above proceedings were adjourned at

 

            24      6:10 p.m.

 

            25                        -  -  -

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                                  71

 

 

 

             1                      CERTIFICATE

 

             2

 

             3  STATE OF FLORIDA)

                                )

             4  COUNTY OF DUVAL )

 

             5

 

             6

 

             7           I, Diane M. Tropia, Court Reporter,

 

             8  certify that I was authorized to and did

 

             9  stenographically report the foregoing proceedings

 

            10  and that the transcript is a true and complete

 

            11  record of my stenographic notes.

 

            12

 

            13

 

            14

 

            15            DATED this 21st day of August, 2011.

 

            16

 

            17             ___________________________

 

            18                   Diane M. Tropia

 

            19

 

            20

 

            21

 

            22

 

            23

 

            24

 

            25

 

                      Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203