CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
LAND USE AND ZONING
COMMITTEE
Proceedings held on Tuesday, August 16,
2011, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council
Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before
Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the
State of Florida at Large.
PRESENT:
REGINALD BROWN, Chair.
RAY HOLT, Vice Chair.
LORI BOYER, Committee Member.
DOYLE CARTER, Committee Member.
ROBIN LUMB, Committee Member.
DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
ALSO PRESENT:
SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
STEPHEN SMITH, Planning and Development Dept.
GARY KRESEL, Planning and Development Dept.
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
- - -
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
August 16, 2011 5:00 p.m.
2 - - -
3 (Councilman Holt presiding.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Good evening,
5 everybody.
6 Thank you for coming to the Land Use and
7 Zoning Committee meeting for August 16th.
8 Let's go around the horn and make sure all
9 of our nameplates are correct, starting with
10 Mr. Kelly.
11 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
12 Sean Kelly, Planning and Development.
13 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
14 Development.
15 MR. KRESEL: Gary Kresel, Planning and
16 Development.
17 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
18 Development.
19 MR. REINGOLD: To abide by Mr. Holt's
20 directions, Dylan Reingold, General Counsel.
21 C/M BOYER: Lori Boyer, City Council,
22 District 6.
23 C/M REDMAN: Don Redman, City Council,
24 District 4.
25 C/M CARTER: Doyle Carter, City Council,
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 District 12.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Ray Holt. I am subbing for
3 a little while until Mr. Brown gets here. I'm
4 representing District 11.
5 C/M LUMB: Robin Lumb, Group 5.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Let's see. I'm
7 thrown off without Mr. Crofts. Take that to
8 mean what you will.
9 I don't think we have anybody here
10 visiting to take anything out of order, so we
11 will start on page 1. Item number 1, -252, is
12 deferred.
13 Item number 2 --
14 MR. REINGOLD: Councilmember.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry?
16 MR. REINGOLD: (Inaudible.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Did we want to take one out
18 of order?
19 C/M BOYER: (Inaudible.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. -252 is our item
21 that we just had a meeting on. And we are not
22 deferring that, you're absolutely right. We
23 had our subcommittee beforehand.
24 Ms. Boyer, do you want to give us a
25 summary of what we discussed and make a motion?
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 C/M BOYER: The subcommittee met
2 immediately prior to this meeting, and this was
3 our second meeting. We received both public
4 comment on this recommended ordinance and
5 reviewed staff recommendations on it.
6 And, as a result of a request from the
7 administration to withdraw this bill, the
8 subcommittee voted to recommend withdrawal of
9 it to the LUZ for consideration this evening.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion from
11 Ms. Boyer --
12 C/M LUMB: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: -- second by Mr. Lumb.
14 We'll put it on the ballot.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
18 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
19 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
20 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
21 (Committee ballot closed.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: There we go.
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
25 withdrawn 2011-252.
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1 And the folks with ITAC will be working on
2 that and possibly coming back to us in the
3 future with something similar. I appreciate
4 all the effort that everybody put in on that,
5 all the folks in the logistics community.
6 Thank you very much.
7 Item number 2, 2011-341. There is an
8 amendment.
9 C/M CARTER: Move the amendment.
10 C/M BOYER: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and a
12 second on the amendment.
13 All in favor of the amendment signify by
14 saying aye.
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes and
17 we'll be rereferring this back to the
18 committee; is that right?
19 MS. LAHMEUR: (Inaudible.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Right, but we'll --
21 I need a motion to rerefer.
22 C/M CARTER: Motion to rerefer.
23 C/M LUMB: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to
25 rerefer back to LUZ.
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1 Please open the ballot.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
5 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
6 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
7 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
11 rereferred 2011-341 back to LUZ.
12 MR. REINGOLD: To the LUZ chair --
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
14 MR. REINGOLD: -- I think I heard a motion
15 from Councilmember Carter and then a second
16 from Councilmember Lumb on that item.
17 And just to -- I know the agenda reflects
18 that it was changing the number of dwelling
19 units. I think also it would be appropriate
20 that the amendment also incorporates, as I
21 discussed at the agenda meeting, that we
22 reference that it's a portion of the RE number
23 and not just a full -- the full RE number, but
24 that was just reiterating what the amendment
25 was.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: And we don't need to revote
2 that?
3 MR. REINGOLD: (Shakes head.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Just for the record. Okay.
5 Item number 3, 2011-342, is a small scale
6 amendment.
7 C/M CARTER: Move the bill.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: We need to open the public
9 hearing.
10 Where is my hammer?
11 I opened the public hearing. Do we have
12 any speakers?
13 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close the public
15 hearing.
16 MR. REINGOLD: To the committee, you might
17 want to just hear a brief comment from the
18 Planning and Development Department on the
19 item.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
21 MR. REINGOLD: Mr. Kresel.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry, Mr. Kresel has
23 got this one.
24 MR. KRESEL: Through the Chair, ordinance
25 2011-342. The property is located on the west
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1 side of Philips Highway, at the intersection of
2 Philips and Baymeadows Way West. The property
3 consists of 4.9 acres. There is a vacant
4 warehouse on site.
5 Currently, the land use designation is
6 Light Industrial. The request is for a Heavy
7 Industrial designation. The property is within
8 an industrial sanctuary.
9 And the Department has reviewed the
10 request and recommends approval.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
12 Mr. Kelly, did you want to say something?
13 MR. KELLY: There's a companion rezoning.
14 I didn't know if you wanted to take them
15 together or --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: You're right. I'm sorry.
17 I haven't gone over this agenda. I wasn't
18 planning on being chair, so --
19 Yeah, the -- 2011-342 and -343 are
20 companions, so --
21 C/M LUMB: Mr. Chairman.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: -- but we've already opened
23 and closed the public hearing.
24 Yes, sir.
25 C/M LUMB: I think in the agenda meeting
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1 we decided we'd handle these as separate
2 matters to avoid confusion that had occurred
3 previously.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I was just --
5 C/M LUMB: Sorry.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: -- going to open the public
7 hearings for both of them at the same time.
8 So consider the public hearing open for
9 -342 and -343, but we don't have any speakers
10 on this?
11 MS. LAHMEUR: No.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. If nothing
13 else, I need a motion on -342.
14 C/M REDMAN: Motion to move -342.
15 C/M BOYER: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second
17 on the land use, -342.
18 Please open the ballot.
19 MR. REINGOLD: (Indicating.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry, Mr. Reingold.
21 MR. REINGOLD: I just want to clarify --
22 because we tend not to use our microphones when
23 we do motions, which is a very typical
24 procedure for our other committee meetings --
25 the motion was by Councilman Redman and
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1 seconded by Councilmember Boyer.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Sorry. I'll
3 clarify them from now on.
4 We have a motion and a second.
5 Please open the ballot on -342.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
8 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
9 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
10 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
11 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
12 (Committee ballot closed.)
13 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
15 approved -342.
16 -343. And this is the zoning, so if you
17 have any ex-parte on this, then -- Ms. Boyer.
18 C/M BOYER: I have ex-parte communication
19 to declare with Steve Diebenow on July 19th
20 when he was discussing switching from the
21 original industrial zoning to the PUD.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. Thank you.
23 Mr. Redman.
24 C/M REDMAN: Yes. I need to declare
25 ex-parte. I spoke with Mr. Diebenow on the
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1 16th of July concerning refiling this bill.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Anybody else?
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: No one.
6 Mr. Kelly, did you need to add anything on
7 this that Mr. Kresel didn't already cover?
8 MR. KELLY: This is the companion rezoning
9 to a planned unit development. This was
10 reviewed by the Department.
11 In essence, this PUD is a developed site
12 currently, approximately five acres.
13 Primarily, the uses allowed under the PUD are
14 the same as Industrial Light uses; however, the
15 addition of a component for the specific user
16 of the site required a -- basically what is
17 considered flares for life safety, vests and
18 things of that nature, in maritime situations
19 and reckoning.
20 So the Department basically reviewed this
21 in the context that it was consistent with the
22 existing Industrial Light zoning within the
23 immediate vicinity which surrounds this, and we
24 do find it consistent. We feel that the
25 addition of this one use is a small component
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1 of the overall facility, so therefore find it
2 consistent with the comprehensive plan and the
3 surrounding zoning districts as well.
4 The Planning Commission recommended
5 approval on August 11th with -- subject to --
6 there's six or -- actually five conditions, and
7 I'll read into the record the condition that's
8 being modified.
9 In the letter dated August 11th to Council
10 President Joost, condition 4, which was struck,
11 and condition 6 now has a modification that I
12 believe all the parties have agreed to. That
13 condition would read, the subject property
14 shall be developed in accordance with the
15 requirements set forth in Subpart 3, Part 12 of
16 the zoning code. In the event that the
17 development of the subject property would be
18 subject to subpart [sic] per section 656.1209
19 and -- and with the deletion of condition 4 and
20 that revision to condition 6, the Department
21 recommends approval.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
23 And we don't have anybody here
24 representing this?
25 MR. REINGOLD: (Indicating.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold.
2 MR. REINGOLD: To the committee, I just
3 want to make note of this because it's awkward.
4 As you noted, there's nobody here.
5 Typically, when we have a PUD rezoning, we
6 have an applicant who agrees to the conditions.
7 Seeing there's no applicant here, I have just
8 one question for staff and one note.
9 At the Planning Commission meeting, was
10 the applicant agreeable to conditions -- what
11 are described in your memo as 1, 2, 3, and 5?
12 MR. KELLY: Yes, he was.
13 MR. REINGOLD: All right. And, in
14 addition, the condition that was modified that
15 Mr. Kelly read into the record, I would just
16 like to note that Mr. Diebenow sent me an email
17 yesterday saying that he was agreeable to the
18 condition. Specifically, he said, I like the
19 change you have suggested for 2011-342, unless
20 T.R., a/k/a Dr. PUD, has some wrinkle he would
21 like to add.
22 And I heard from Dr. PUD since then, and
23 he is comfortable with the change. I only make
24 that clear on the record because we don't have
25 an applicant here to get up to say, "I agree to
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1 the conditions," so I wanted that to be clear,
2 that the applicant had agreed to this.
3 C/M LUMB: Mr. Chairman.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 Mr. Lumb.
6 C/M LUMB: Until the discussion began, I
7 did not realize that I had an ex-parte to
8 declare. I had a very brief conversation with
9 Mr. Diebenow where he made a reference to this.
10 I didn't -- I wasn't even sure what it was by
11 ordinance, but he and I had a very brief
12 discussion and he explained the -- the whole
13 rationale behind the -- the flare thing.
14 Sorry.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. I understand.
16 It happens pretty regularly.
17 All right. There is an amendment on this.
18 We need it moved.
19 C/M BOYER: Move the amendment.
20 C/M REDMAN: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion from
22 Ms. Boyer and a second from Mr. Redman.
23 All in favor of the amendment, signify by
24 saying aye.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
2 C/M BOYER: Move the bill.
3 C/M REDMAN: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion by Ms. Boyer, second
5 by Mr. Redman.
6 Please open the ballot.
7 (Mr. Deibenow enters the proceedings.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: There's Mr. Diebenow.
9 (Committee ballot opened.)
10 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
11 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
12 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
13 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
14 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
15 (Committee ballot closed.)
16 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
18 approved 2011-343.
19 2011-363 is deferred, I believe.
20 And now we have a waiver of road frontage,
21 2011-382. This is quasi-judicial. So if
22 anybody has an ex-parte, you want to go ahead
23 and declare it.
24 C/M CARTER: (Indicating.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Carter.
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1 C/M CARTER: I had communications with
2 Mr. Everett, July 19th and August 15th.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Huxford, can you
4 run us through this one?
5 MR. HUXFORD: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
6 Application for zoning -- actually
7 application for waiver of reduction of the
8 minimum required road frontage, WRF-11-05, or
9 ordinance 2011-382, is for property at 8580
10 Lenox Avenue.
11 The LUZ Committee did take this item up at
12 their last meeting. The Planning Department
13 expressed its concerns in that as a general
14 practice we're not supportive of waivers to
15 reduce the frontage down to zero. However, the
16 LUZ Committee was interested in possibly
17 seeking an approval subject to certain
18 conditions. And during that review, we
19 discovered that we had some issues with the lot
20 that was going to be up on Lenox Avenue not
21 having sufficient lot area. And since that
22 time, the applicant has come in, resurveyed the
23 property, fixed that problem, so now the two
24 proposed lots that will come out of this will
25 have sufficient lot area, and so we are --
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1 we're fine that there will be legal buildable
2 lots if this waiver is granted.
3 We had two conditions that we were
4 discussing. One was that the address for the
5 new residence would be clearly identified along
6 Lenox Avenue, and the second was to stabilize
7 or improve the accessway to get to the new --
8 newly-created lot.
9 We would also be interested in proposing
10 that -- a third condition, that the lot not be
11 further subdivided.
12 And, with that, we'll leave it to you.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
15 Mr. Huxford.
16 So, just to summarize what you said, even
17 though we're showing a PD recommendation of
18 denial, with those conditions, you guys feel
19 comfortable?
20 MR. HUXFORD: Well, again, as a practice,
21 we're not comfortable endorsing waivers to
22 reduce down to zero. But should the LUZ
23 Committee wish to proceed in that direction,
24 that would be our advice to you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much,
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1 sir.
2 We will open the public hearing on this,
3 and I have one speaker card, a Mr. James
4 Everett.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on down, sir.
7 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Please give your address
9 for the record when you come down here, and you
10 have three minutes.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: James E. Everett, 8526
12 Lenox Avenue.
13 This property is for my daughter and her
14 husband to build a house, so this will be a
15 family situation. I do not see any need for
16 further subdivision, and the access will be
17 adequate.
18 We talked last time about gravel
19 stabilization of the way to get in. That's
20 agreeable. So we can deal with all your
21 requirements.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
23 MR. EVERETT: Do you have any questions of
24 me?
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Boyer.
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1 C/M BOYER: Mr. Everett, for the record,
2 in reviewing the Planning Department report, I
3 see that there are numerous other lots on the
4 street that have been subdivided where there
5 are front and back lots; is that correct?
6 MR. EVERETT: In that area, yes.
7 C/M BOYER: Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Boyer.
9 I have a question of staff. Could you be
10 a little more specific, for the record, on what
11 you mean when you say stabilize the road and
12 clearly ID'd so that we get -- have an okay
13 from the applicant that is pretty specific as
14 to what he's going to be willing to do.
15 MR. HUXFORD: Sure.
16 As far as the identification, that would
17 simply be a clearly marked address on the
18 mailbox that I'm sure will be erected along
19 Lenox Avenue, which is easy enough to do.
20 And as far as the stabilization, Sean, I
21 think you had some proposals on that last time.
22 Bear with me for just a moment.
23 MR. EVERETT: Mr. Chairman, last time --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: One moment. Let's -- they
25 were going to say something.
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1 Did you want to say something?
2 MR. HUXFORD: I think Mr. Carter had
3 something he wanted to say.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Go ahead,
5 Mr. Carter.
6 C/M CARTER: What he says -- what y'all
7 said last time -- what did you say on the --
8 MR. EVERETT: Last time they suggested
9 gravel, mainly because of the two large pecan
10 trees.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I just wanted
12 to get it specifically --
13 MR. HUXFORD: Right. So --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: -- what areas are going to
15 be graveled and -- and whatever --
16 MR. HUXFORD: If he's agreeable to the
17 gravel, then a 30-foot-wide easement/driveway
18 access shall be -- it doesn't have to be
19 35 feet wide. I think we were talking about
20 how much width --
21 MR. EVERETT: Fifteen feet.
22 MR. HUXFORD: I think it was going to
23 be -- 15 feet was the actual gravel area, 15
24 feet wide, so the -- the drive would be
25 stabilized with gravel to provide adequate
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1 access to emergency vehicles prior to the
2 issuance of a permit for the new residence.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Reingold, you're
4 okay with that? You got it all down there?
5 You're busily scribbling.
6 MR. REINGOLD: (Nods head.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Boyer.
8 C/M BOYER: Through the Chair to
9 Mr. Huxford, if we had a 35-foot easement with
10 a 15-foot stabilized access, would that take
11 care of the concern that was raised in the
12 report regarding the public health, safety and
13 welfare concern, that we might have difficultly
14 getting fire and rescue access to this
15 property?
16 MR. HUXFORD: Through the Chair, yes,
17 ma'am, it would.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. Okay.
19 So the applicant has indicated that he is
20 okay with those changes.
21 If there's -- I was going to close the
22 public hearing.
23 Mr. Reingold.
24 MR. REINGOLD: I'm just trying to make
25 sure I'm keeping up with the committee and
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1 staff.
2 I heard one condition was that the address
3 for the new residence shall be clearly
4 identified as marked on a mailbox along
5 Lenox Avenue. The second one was that there
6 shall be a 30-foot-wide easement to Lenox
7 Avenue, which contains a 15-foot-wide driveway
8 access, which shall be stabilized with gravel
9 or a similar material to provide adequate
10 access by emergency vehicles prior to the
11 issuance of a permit for the new residence.
12 And I heard a third issue that was
13 discussed in which -- that there shall be no
14 further subdivision of the entire property
15 denoted as RE number 008769-0000.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: And if someone chooses to
17 move to grant with that amendment, those will
18 be wrapped up in there.
19 MR. HUXFORD: Through the -- to the Chair,
20 that's a 35-foot-wide easement, not 30.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that what he said?
22 MR. HUXFORD: And that's the legal
23 description that we have.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on.
25 Ms. Boyer.
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1 C/M BOYER: I would move -- based on the
2 evidence that we have heard and -- today, that
3 would resolve the public health and safety
4 concerns that were previously voiced at the
5 Planning Commission, I would move that we grant
6 this subject to the conditions that
7 Mr. Reingold just read into the record.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
9 We have a amotion on the amendment --
10 C/M REDMAN: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: -- second from Mr. Redman.
12 All in favor of the amendment --
13 Mr. Reingold.
14 MR. REINGOLD: Two issues -- I'm sorry, I
15 heard a debate between the 30 and the 35, and
16 then I'll also look to see if the applicant is
17 agreeable to those conditions.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Sir, are you
19 agreeable to the 35-foot easement with 15 feet
20 of gravel?
21 MR. EVERETT: Yes.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. Okay.
23 We have a motion and a second on the
24 amendment.
25 All in favor of the amendment, say aye.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
3 C/M CARTER: Move the bill as amended.
4 C/M REDMAN: Second.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: A motion to grant as
6 amended; is that correct, Mr. Carter?
7 C/M CARTER: Yes.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Second by Mr. Redman.
9 All right. We have a motion and a second.
10 Please open the ballot.
11 (Committee ballot opened.)
12 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
13 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
14 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
15 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
16 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
20 approved -- granted the waiver on 2011-382.
21 MR. REINGOLD: Just one --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold.
23 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair and the
24 committee, I just wanted to also clarify,
25 that -- part of that amendment where -- is a
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1 revised legal description that's on file
2 because it corrects the issue that was
3 identified last time. I just wanted to make
4 sure that was clear on the record.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
6 All right. Item number 7, 2011-415, is a
7 rezoning on San Jose Boulevard. And that is
8 quasi-judicial, so if anybody has any ex-parte
9 they need to declare, now would be a good time.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Well, then, we
12 will open the public hearing on that.
13 Do we have any speakers?
14 MS. LAHMEUR: (Inaudible.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good point.
16 Mr. Kelly, why don't you run it through
17 the -- run us through this and then Mr. Skiles
18 can tell us whether he approves of your
19 condition.
20 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
21 To the Chair and committee, application
22 for rezoning 2011-415 seeks to rezone a
23 previous planned unit development that was
24 approved in 2005 for approximately 22 townhomes
25 with a community clubhouse.
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1 This new PUD proposes Commercial
2 Neighborhood uses on approximately 3.76 acres.
3 The restrictions in the written description
4 have some limitations on specific uses that are
5 not permitted. Additionally, restrictions on
6 signage and additional landscaping and
7 buffering is provided in the written
8 description.
9 The Planning Commission, again, reviewed
10 this and recommended approval. Originally,
11 there were nine conditions that were part of
12 that recommendation. Since that time, the
13 applicant and some of the neighborhood
14 opposition have gotten together with staff as
15 well and made revisions which incorporate a
16 number of conditions that were indicated in the
17 memorandum dated August 11th. So this now is
18 recommended for approval subject to the four
19 conditions in the memorandum, specifically
20 striking condition 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, and
21 modifying condition 2, which now reads, The
22 subject property shall be developed in
23 accordance with the revised written description
24 dated August 15th, 2011, and that was handed
25 out just before the agenda, so everybody should
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
27
1 have a copy of that.
2 The Department, again, finds that this --
3 this Commercial Neighborhood use in relation to
4 the surrounding uses on San Jose Boulevard, we
5 do find it compatible with surrounding uses.
6 And the site plan and the conditions placed
7 upon it in the written description as it
8 relates to lighting and buffering will make it
9 very compatible. In addition, the restrictions
10 on the uses also further promote compatibility
11 with surrounding residential to the rear as
12 well as a church which is immediately south of
13 the subject property.
14 But with those amendments, striking 5, 6,
15 7, 8, 9, and the amendment to the revised
16 written description, the Department is
17 recommending approval.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
19 Mr. Reingold, you got all that?
20 MR. REINGOLD: Absolutely, sir.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Good. I love to hear that
22 the Planning Department and the community and
23 the applicant were working all together in
24 order to make everybody happy.
25 Mr. Skiles, could you come up and, first
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
28
1 of all, give us your address for the record and
2 tell us if you are in agreement with those
3 conditions.
4 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
6 It's Doug Skiles, and the address is 2002
7 San Marco Boulevard, Suite 203, Jacksonville,
8 Florida 32207.
9 And we are acceptable to those conditions
10 and we have two more that I'll read in -- and
11 this was discussion that I had with Mr. Arpen
12 and the -- the buyer of the property,
13 Mr. (Inaudible) Patel, is also back here if you
14 have any questions for him.
15 So I guess this would -- I don't know what
16 number they would be, but I'll call them 1 and
17 2. The first one from today is --
18 MR. KELLY: Number 5 and 6.
19 MR. SKILES: I'm sorry, so it would be
20 5 and 6.
21 So number 5, trees planted in the southern
22 uncomplementary land use buffer shall be a
23 minimum two-inch caliper evergreen in a species
24 which will reach a height at maturity of at
25 least 20 feet.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Number 6, individual tenant changing
2 message signs will not scroll and will not
3 change more frequently than once every minute.
4 And we are -- we accept those conditions.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent.
6 Let's make sure Mr. Reingold is cool with
7 all this. I want to make sure that he gets it
8 down on the record. He's our scribe.
9 Ms. Boyer, did you want to say something?
10 C/M BOYER: May I ask a -- may I ask a
11 question of Mr. Kelly while we're waiting?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Absolutely.
13 C/M BOYER: Would you run by the numbers
14 again on the conditions that -- which ones
15 are -- we're taking out?
16 MR. KELLY: Per the memorandum that's
17 dated August 11th to Council President Joost,
18 on that memorandum, specifically condition 5,
19 6, 7, and 8 were incorporated into the revised
20 written description that's dated today.
21 Condition 9 was struck in light of the
22 existing PUD modification criteria that would
23 otherwise require a PUD to PUD rezoning, due to
24 the -- the substantial configuration change
25 that would be warranted going from commercial
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
30
1 to residential. So that was struck and that
2 just defaults back to traditional modification
3 requirements under 341.
4 Conditions 1 is the same as the memo
5 condition.
6 Condition 2 is the revised written
7 description dated today.
8 Condition 3 is the original site plan
9 dated June 6th.
10 Condition 4 is the Development Services
11 Division memorandum.
12 And then condition 5 and 6 were what Doug
13 introduced.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Reingold.
15 MR. REINGOLD: The only small change that
16 I would recommend to what would now be, I
17 believe, condition number 6 is that the
18 individual tenant changing message "devices"
19 will not scroll, instead of "signs." "Changing
20 message device" is a clear term in our zoning
21 code, and I just thought it would be important
22 to use the same terminology.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Sounds like a good idea.
24 All right. Are you okay on everything
25 else? You got it all?
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. REINGOLD: (Nods head.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I just want to make
3 sure.
4 C/M REDMAN: (Indicating.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
6 C/M REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 Why would we go against the ordinance
8 codes that we have on the lights blinking and
9 the -- you know, what our original --
10 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to
11 Councilmember Redman, this was a condition that
12 the applicant actually presented to the City,
13 that they wanted to have some additional
14 restrictions on their own signs so that they
15 could alleviate probably some of the concerns
16 raised by the neighbors. It's their own
17 separate agreement that they're comfortable
18 with that they brought to us.
19 C/M REDMAN: Okay. Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Always willing
21 to accommodate something that's more
22 restrictive if the applicant is supportive.
23 Ms. Boyer.
24 C/M BOYER: Through the Chair to
25 Mr. Skiles, the conditions that were contained
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 in the Planning Department report, are you
2 comfortable if those conditions cannot be
3 modified by a Departmental minor modification
4 process?
5 MR. SKILES: Which ones specifically would
6 those be?
7 C/M BOYER: Well, all of -- there were
8 nine conditions.
9 MR. SKILES: Yes.
10 C/M BOYER: And of those, I know the first
11 few referenced specifically the written
12 description and things like that.
13 As I sat through that Planning Commission
14 meeting that you were at last week, one of the
15 things that became apparent is that if
16 something is listed specifically as a
17 condition, then it cannot go through a minor
18 modification process. But if it is
19 incorporated into the written description, it
20 could be changed with staff review and approval
21 as a minor modification and not come back.
22 So since these were negotiated conditions
23 for the benefit of the adjacent property
24 owners, I'm asking you if you're comfortable if
25 they remain as conditions.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MR. SKILES: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Excellent. That's a very
3 good point.
4 All right. We can now close the public
5 hearing.
6 Tracey, you didn't submit a card. You're
7 good?
8 MR. ARPEN: (Nods head.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
10 All right. We'll close the public
11 hearing. We have the applicant here, said that
12 he's in agreement with the conditions.
13 I need an amendment.
14 MR. REINGOLD: (Indicating.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, you can't
16 vote.
17 MR. REINGOLD: I know, I just can't stop
18 myself. I apologize.
19 This issue wasn't really going to come up
20 initially, except for the fact that if the
21 committee is going in the direction of adding
22 conditions 5, 6, 7, and 8 to the ordinance
23 itself, I would like to raise at least two or
24 three issues, actually, with condition 6, 7,
25 and 8.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Initially, in an e-mail I had sent to the
2 Planning Department and to the applicant,
3 condition number 6 reads that, All
4 monument-style signage shall be externally
5 illuminated. The way I read that is -- I don't
6 think they intended to require that the signs
7 be externally illuminated. I think they were
8 trying to say -- is that we don't want them
9 internally illuminated, so I think the wording
10 should be shifted around, that any monument
11 style -- or monument-style signage shall be
12 prohibited from using internal illumination.
13 And then with 7 and 8, it might be best to
14 combine those into just a simple condition that
15 reads, An uncomplementary land use buffer
16 meeting the requirements of section 656.1216,
17 zoning code, and an 8-foot-tall fence shall be
18 provided and maintained along the entire west
19 side of the --
20 MR. KELLY: East side.
21 MR. REINGOLD: -- I'm sorry -- east side
22 of the retention pond and the entire south
23 property line.
24 And, with that, I just would like to know
25 if the staff and the applicant are agreeable to
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 those changes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly, Mr. Skiles.
3 MR. KELLY: That would be acceptable.
4 I mean, our purpose was, again, not to
5 have so many conditions listed. My issue goes
6 to actually, then, back to the original staff
7 condition number 9, that if the townhome
8 development option is pursued, that that would
9 only require a minor modification and not a
10 PUD.
11 We were originally more restrictive in the
12 deletion of that as an option, so now it's
13 introducing it back as an option to go back to
14 townhomes, so I -- I have a question about
15 that.
16 Again, the -- I won't go into the
17 verification process and minor modification
18 process, but the criteria is in the code as it
19 stands and it's subject to the concurrence of
20 the district councilmember as those come
21 through, so I'll just leave it at that.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, the applicant
23 already said that he's okay with the conditions
24 being part of the ordinance, and I believe that
25 was Ms. Boyer's intent when she was
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
36
1 questioning, was to clarify that he would know
2 that this is not something that can be later
3 changed in a minor mod.
4 So I'm still waiting for an amendment, if
5 anybody wants to move that amendment.
6 C/M CARTER: Move the amendment.
7 C/M REDMAN: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a motion by
9 Mr. Carter, a second by Mr. Redman.
10 Anybody want to speak to it?
11 C/M BOYER: Yes.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Boyer.
13 C/M BOYER: Can I clarify the amendment?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
15 C/M BOYER: As I understand the amendment,
16 it would be moving the two conditions that were
17 referenced on the floor today; adoption of the
18 new August 15th written description; treating
19 conditions 5, 6, 7, and 8 as conditions; and it
20 would be deleting condition 9, as was
21 originally requested; and I believe conditions
22 2 and -- the legal -- condition 1 remains the
23 same and condition 3 remains the same; is that
24 correct?
25 MR. REINGOLD: (Indicating.)
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
37
1 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
2 MR. REINGOLD: The question I have back to
3 the council member is -- I believe condition 4
4 would remain the same, and did you want to use
5 the language proffered by OGC with respect to
6 6, 7, and 8?
7 C/M BOYER: Yes.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is everybody
9 comfortable with the language?
10 C/M CARTER: Yes.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Are you in
12 agreement and --
13 MR. SKILES: Yes.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: -- comfortable with the
15 language as it was discussed?
16 MR. SKILES: Yes.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
18 All right. We have a motion by Mr. Carter
19 and a second by Mr. Redman.
20 All in favor of the amendment, signify by
21 saying aye.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment passes.
24 C/M BOYER: Move the bill as amended.
25 C/M CARTER: Second.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion by Ms. Boyer, second
2 by Mr. Carter.
3 Please open the ballot.
4 (Committee ballot opened.)
5 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
7 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
8 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
9 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
10 (Committee ballot closed.)
11 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
13 approved -415.
14 Thank you, Mr. Skiles, Mr. Arpen for
15 coming down.
16 MR. SKILES: Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Always good to see you,
18 Mr. Arpen.
19 MR. ARPEN: Good to be back.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: We miss you.
21 All right. On to page 4, item number 8,
22 2011-416. This, again, is a quasi-judicial
23 matter, so if anybody has any ex-parte --
24 C/M LUMB: Mr. Chairman.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lumb, go ahead.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 C/M LUMB: I had an ex-parte communication
2 with a Ms. Tammy Whitman (phonetic) and I
3 believe a Ms. Linda Watkins (phonetic). I was
4 invited to tour the facility. They gave me a
5 brief explanation of what the purpose was
6 behind this piece of legislation, and I'll save
7 my other comments for after the -- the hearing.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one
9 else, Mr. Kelly, it looks like we've got a
10 Planning Commission and Planning Department
11 amend and approve.
12 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
13 Ordinance 2011-416 seeks to rezone
14 approximately 7.22 acres of land from
15 Industrial Light to PUD essentially to allow
16 for some select Industrial Heavy uses
17 encompassing scrap processing, outdoor unclean
18 activity, as well as outdoor storage. This
19 property, again, is located within the
20 industrial sanctuary.
21 The Department supports this additional
22 intensification of uses. The land use is Heavy
23 Industrial. We do have some buffer
24 requirements on the site plan which basically
25 prohibit the outdoor storage of materials
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 within a certain distance of the public
2 right-of-ways, and so that is captured on the
3 site plan.
4 Additionally, the Department supports this
5 request subject to the conditions in the
6 memorandum dated August 11th to Council
7 President Joost. This has been revised
8 somewhat:
9 Condition 1 and 2, as it relates to the
10 legal description, is the same. Condition 2 is
11 a new revised written description, which I
12 understand is dated today, August 15th [sic],
13 again, encapsulating some of the comments
14 with -- with Dylan, OGC, and the applicant.
15 The site plan is revised also, dated
16 August 3rd, 2011.
17 We struck condition 4 as it related to a
18 review from Development Services. At this
19 time, the site is currently all developed. At
20 this point, they're looking at introducing,
21 again, some -- some uses on the interior which
22 wouldn't involve any new construction or
23 impervious surfaces, however --
24 Condition 5 relates, again, to the
25 screening. I'll read this into the record.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 This was negotiated over the course of a week
2 about. Condition 5 reads, Prior to issuance of
3 a Certificate of Use or commencement of any
4 outdoor storage or processing of scrap not
5 contained within an enclosed structure, a
6 landscape plan for property abutting City
7 right-of-way for West Church Street shall be
8 submitted for review and approval of the
9 Planning and Development Department.
10 All required landscaping material and
11 visual screening of the West Church Street
12 right-of-way shall meet the buffer material
13 requirements of Section 656.1216 of the Zoning
14 Code within a 10-foot buffer strip provided the
15 buffer strip may include structures, accessways
16 and signs, and a chain-link fence with slats
17 may be utilized. No visual screening is
18 required for accessway gates on West Church in
19 front of the employee/public parking area. All
20 landscaping and screening shall be installed
21 prior to commencement of any outdoor storage or
22 scrap processing use. Landscaping shall be
23 installed and maintained between the fence and
24 the right-of-way street edge [sic].
25 Landscaping placed in the right-of-way shall be
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
42
1 subject to review and approval of the Planning
2 and Development Department.
3 With those -- with that revision of the
4 fifth condition, the Department is supporting
5 this request.
6 (Councilman Brown assumes the Chair.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dylan.
8 MR. REINGOLD: One question for staff.
9 This is probably just way too nit-picky,
10 but at the end of that last condition, in the
11 last sentence, it was, landscaping shall be
12 installed and maintained between the fence and
13 the right-of-way "or" street edge. You had
14 read it as the "right-of-way street edge." Was
15 there supposed to be an "or" in there or was
16 that removed for a particular reason?
17 MR. KELLY: No. The "or" stays.
18 MR. REINGOLD: The "or" stays.
19 Thank you, sir.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The public hearing
21 is now open. Would you give your name and
22 address for the record.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon,
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 Mack McCuller, 225 Water Street,
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43
1 representing the applicant.
2 I'm here to answer any questions unless
3 there's opposition, in which case I'll reserve
4 my time.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I just want to -- if
6 you can catch me up, do we have any opposition?
7 MS. LAHMEUR: No.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I do not have any other
9 cards.
10 Planning is in support of this?
11 MR. HUXFORD: (Nods head.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll unclose
13 [sic] -- we don't have any questions?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll unclose the public
16 hearing.
17 Committee discussion?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: No discussion for the
20 committee.
21 A motion on the amendment.
22 C/M BOYER: Move the amendment.
23 C/M CARTER: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion by
25 Boyer second by Doyle.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 All in favor.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: No nays. The amendment
4 carries.
5 Do we have a --
6 C/M CARTER: Move the bill as amended.
7 C/M BOYER: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion to
9 move the bill as amended by Doyle, second by --
10 did you have to say something?
11 MR. REINGOLD: No.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Boyer.
13 Open the ballot.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
16 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
17 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
18 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
19 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
20 (Committee ballot closed.)
21 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. By your actions, you
23 have approved 2011-416.
24 MR. McCULLER: Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Item 9, 2011-443. Can we get --
2 C/M BOYER: Move the bill.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion to
4 move the bill.
5 Do we have a second?
6 C/M LUMB: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a second by
8 Mr. Lumb.
9 Do we have discussion? Yes, we do. We
10 have Mr. Redman.
11 Mr. Redman.
12 C/M REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 This bill is to seek -- increasing the
14 entertainment zone downtown, which would allow
15 restaurants, bars to have their product out on
16 the sidewalk, tables, chairs, serve alcohol in
17 an area -- we'd be extending this -- what is
18 currently now Adams Street is the entertainment
19 zone, and this bill would extend this from
20 Newnan to Main Street and up Market Street --
21 let me see -- to Forsyth and Market Street from
22 Bay to Forsyth, but it -- anyway, this is
23 extending the entertainment area up into the
24 church district farther, which would put the --
25 this directly across the street from where the
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1 church district starts.
2 Being the councilperson for the core area
3 of downtown Jacksonville, I -- I want to see
4 Jacksonville, downtown, to grow and be a
5 vibrant area, but I think we need to look at
6 other things other than just bars downtown. I
7 mean, I -- this is good entertainment on
8 Bay Street and it's flourishing on Friday and
9 Saturday nights, I understand, and maybe other
10 nights too, but we have to look after the
11 families as well. We need family entertainment
12 downtown. We need things for the families to
13 do downtown. And by doing this and moving it
14 up into -- closer to the church area I think
15 would be a mistake.
16 I know -- and one of the problems I have
17 with this -- some of the bars have been doing
18 this already illegally. I know the one there
19 on the corner of Market Street and -- wherever
20 that is -- Forsyth, have been doing this in the
21 past. And when -- I ride a bicycle around
22 downtown a lot. I see women with -- pushing
23 baby buggies, strollers, they move out on the
24 sidewalk with all this and you can't get by.
25 You have to go into the street to get around.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 And the ones that are existing, I need -- I
2 think we need to regulate them more so that we
3 can have room for the pedestrians.
4 So I would encourage my colleagues to not
5 support this and vote more towards things that
6 would be good family entertainment.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Boyer and then Lumb.
9 C/M BOYER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 Through the Chair, I had a question that I
11 had sent in an e-mail and I'm not sure that --
12 if I received an answer, I didn't see it.
13 And I voted for this earlier today, but my
14 question really was, in the included expanded
15 area, how many residential dwelling units did
16 we have and was there -- were there
17 restrictions on the time that the bars were
18 open and things like that, how much was it
19 going to impact the existing residences that
20 we're trying to encourage downtown? And the
21 response that I got was, that's controlled by
22 zoning.
23 So, I guess, if -- if that is the answer,
24 then I'm going to direct the question to
25 Mr. Kelly and get the answer in that regard,
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 but I do have a concern or an interest at
2 least, as we expand the area, that we not have
3 an adverse impact on the dwelling units that
4 we're trying to encourage downtown.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
6 MR. KELLY: The zoning wouldn't regulate
7 the hours of operation of the businesses. I'll
8 defer to Eric with his expertise on the -- on
9 the downtown overlay and the requirements
10 within that.
11 MR. LINDSTROM: Eric Lindstrom, JEDC.
12 I did respond to your e-mail. I'm not
13 sure what happened to it, but I apologize if
14 you didn't get it, but I did make an attempt to
15 answer your questions.
16 We're trying to promote residential
17 ourselves as well. Residential is very
18 important to downtown. The thing to remember
19 is, when we created the sidewalk cafe ordinance
20 back in 1996 -- it's been around for 15
21 years -- it applies to the entire downtown
22 area, not just to the area that we're talking
23 about today. That did allow restaurants to
24 apply for these sidewalk cafes, and those
25 restaurants could serve alcohol. So as long as
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49
1 51 percent of your sales came from food and
2 beverages that were nonalcoholic, you could
3 apply for a sidewalk cafe and your patrons
4 still could go outside with an alcoholic drink
5 and sit at that table.
6 What we did in 2007, as a result of the
7 Super Bowl, we had a number of makeshift bars
8 go in these buildings on Bay Street. It turned
9 out to be kind of a vision for people when they
10 realized -- when they had the large crowds
11 walking up and down Bay Street for the
12 Super Bowl, that something like that should
13 happen on a regular basis on Bay Street within
14 those buildings. Along came a couple of
15 operators from the beaches who opened up the
16 first couple of bars, Mark's and the Dive Bar,
17 and then there was a number of others that came
18 along after that and they wanted to be able to
19 do the same thing that restaurants wanted to
20 do, which is to be able to apply for a cafe
21 permit and allow their patrons to sit on the
22 sidewalk. It allowed that business to increase
23 its business by being able to do that, but it
24 allowed us to activate that street, especially
25 at night because a lot of people feel very
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
50
1 unsafe walking down streets that don't have any
2 activity going on, which we had a lot of that
3 in downtown Jacksonville.
4 Once we allowed these bars to apply for
5 these permits, you've got people out on the
6 street, people feel comfortable walking down
7 those streets at night because there's people
8 out there to -- you know, if they did have a
9 problem, there's somebody to -- you know, to
10 call to or what have you, plus the bars also
11 have doormen who keep a -- you know, a watch on
12 that street, and they have close relationships
13 with JSO. So if there are trouble-makers,
14 they're able to work with JSO and get them to
15 come deal with the situation, you know, pretty
16 quickly, and it allows JSO to focus on other
17 things when there aren't any problems going on.
18 So it -- it kind of hits both fronts, safety,
19 plus helps businesses expand.
20 And later in 2007 -- I don't know, some of
21 you might remember that we updated our action
22 plan. We had a number of committees look at
23 various things in downtown that needed to be
24 improved upon. One of those was retail, and
25 that committee had looked at the various
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1 components of downtown, the core, the
2 waterfront, around Florida Theatre, and they
3 concluded that the best way to deal with the
4 Florida Theatre and the patrons who park quite
5 a bit of distances to get back and forth and at
6 night -- it's kind of unsafe -- was to promote
7 not only restaurants but to allow the bars to
8 apply for these sidewalk cafe permits as well
9 to liven up those streets so people feel safe
10 walking back and forth to the Florida Theatre.
11 It also gave people going to the Florida
12 Theatre more venues to go to without having to
13 drive their car somewhere else.
14 So that -- that's the primary purpose for
15 expanding the area. We're not going that far.
16 We're only going to Forsyth Street, in front of
17 the Florida Theatre, and then one block up to
18 Adams, which is where the Burrito Gallery and
19 Indochine restaurant -- and there's a new bar
20 opening up where the old London Bridge is,
21 which is called Burro Bar. And then down the
22 street from that, to the south, is a bar called
23 Lit. They would all like to do
24 street-cafe-type operations in front of their
25 bars to liven up those streets.
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1 I've been working with a number of bar
2 owners and restaurant owners who would like
3 to -- you know, to get that going, to liven up
4 this area around the Florida Theatre, so
5 you'll -- you'll notice -- I sent this map
6 around that kind of shows the area that we want
7 to expand in. It's a very limited area. We're
8 already doing it on Bay Street. It hasn't
9 created the problems they originally envisioned
10 it would when we brought that ordinance to
11 council back in '07.
12 So we're just -- we're just trying to stay
13 with our action plan, which is to create this
14 activity around the Florida Theatre to get
15 the -- you know, to get things going,
16 especially at night. So that's the reason
17 we're just expanding just a block, a block and
18 a half up. We're still two blocks from the
19 church district.
20 Another thing you've got to remember too
21 is the only people that can apply for a
22 sidewalk cafe permit is one that's actually
23 licensed to have the sale of liquor in the
24 first place. So they would have to come to
25 this committee to get that license, to get that
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1 zoning approval first. So if you had an issue
2 with that bar or restaurant, you could deny
3 them at that point in time. This is secondary,
4 this ordinance that we're talking about today.
5 So they have to be an actual approved bar
6 first, then they could come in and apply for a
7 sidewalk cafe permit.
8 C/M BOYER: Thank you. I appreciate that
9 response.
10 And I also assume that if there were
11 residents who had serious concerns about it, we
12 would have heard from some of them or some of
13 them would have shown up.
14 MR. LINDSTROM: That's correct.
15 Most of them kind of like the activity
16 because it makes them feel better when they
17 walk around at night themselves.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Lumb and then
19 Mr. Redman for the second time.
20 C/M LUMB: Forgive me here. The tumblers
21 are beginning to fall into place.
22 So when we say "cafe," in this particular
23 case, we're permitting bars that don't serve
24 any food to be serving outside, correct?
25 MR. LINDSTROM: On Bay Street, that's
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1 correct.
2 C/M LUMB: On Bay Street?
3 MR. LINDSTROM: Yes.
4 C/M LUMB: There's no obligation for
5 them --
6 MR. LINDSTROM: We're going to expand that
7 to the -- to the areas that I --
8 C/M LUMB: Right.
9 MR. LINDSTROM: -- showed you all on the
10 map --
11 C/M LUMB: Up to Adams?
12 MR. LINDSTROM: -- which is up to Forsyth
13 and just a block and a half of Adams.
14 C/M LUMB: So there's no obligation or
15 duty that they have to serve food? These are
16 bars that would have the --
17 MR. LINDSTROM: They're bars.
18 C/M LUMB: -- option to apply for the
19 permit to basically serve alcohol outdoors?
20 MR. LINDSTROM: Correct.
21 C/M LUMB: Okay. Thank you.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
23 C/M REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 You know, the bars that serve the alcohol
25 outdoors, if -- if we're going to pass this, if
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1 we do, I think we need to amend it so at least
2 it wouldn't be on a Sunday afternoon, on a
3 Sunday -- on Sundays, because I know I drive
4 downtown to church every Sunday and you see
5 them standing on a corner, standing, sitting
6 all over the sidewalk, and have already in the
7 past, which is not a good sight going to --
8 going to church.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: If I could, Mr. Lindstrom,
10 hearing the request from the district council
11 [sic], it raised -- that does raise a concern
12 for me.
13 What are the hours for Sunday?
14 MR. LINDSTROM: We don't regulate hours
15 through the cafe permit program. That's
16 dictated by their alcohol permit, I would
17 imagine, as well as their -- you know, if
18 there's any condition with their normal zoning
19 approval of the operation in the first place.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
21 MR. LINDSTROM: Like I said before, you
22 know, to do a bar downtown, you'd have to go
23 through a waiver of distance review and that
24 sort of thing with the Planning Department, who
25 would bring that to this committee. So the bar
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1 would have to get permitted through zoning
2 first, and I think that's when they would get
3 into hours and that sort of thing.
4 This is just allowing them to use the
5 sidewalk, once they are a permitted entity with
6 the City. So they've got to -- they've got to
7 come through you-all to be permitted as a bar
8 first, which has nothing to do with the
9 sidewalk vending permit, so that -- that's
10 where hours would come into play.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Redman, does
12 that -- Mr. Redman.
13 C/M REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14 The other issue of the space on the
15 sidewalk, do we have -- at this point, are we
16 regulated to how much space we have to leave
17 for pedestrians --
18 MR. LINDSTROM: Yes.
19 C/M REDMAN: -- on that sidewalk?
20 And is there any enforcement of this?
21 MR. LINDSTROM: Yes, there is.
22 I mean, they have to maintain a 4-foot
23 width to allow pedestrians to pass if it's a
24 narrow sidewalk.
25 Typically, we try to steer them toward
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1 12-foot-wide sidewalks so they can do their
2 operation -- because their operation has to
3 front the front of their building anyway. They
4 can't extend it out to the edge of the street
5 because of liquor license requirements, unlike
6 a cafe. A cafe can move it out to the street
7 edge. Some of you may have seen some that are
8 out past, you know, the front of the building.
9 They're out toward the curb, whereas with the
10 bars, they can't do that. They have to keep it
11 right up against the front of the building and
12 then cordon it off with, you know, some sort of
13 defining element, like planters or whatever
14 they want to use.
15 C/M REDMAN: Okay. Thank you.
16 I can't support this, but y'all make your
17 own judgment.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Before I -- I'll go
19 ahead and -- Mr. Holt.
20 C/M HOLT: Well, I was going to try to
21 amend it in a way that would make Mr. Redman
22 feel a little more comfortable, the line he was
23 going down as far as limiting the hours, that
24 they could use the sidewalk on Sundays to -- no
25 earlier than 6 p.m. or something like that, but
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1 if -- if you don't feel like that's going to
2 make a -- something you can support, then
3 there's no point in that.
4 And if you wanted to speak to me on that,
5 that's fine.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
7 C/M REDMAN: Thank you.
8 I mean, I think it should be 7 p.m. if you
9 were going to do it, but I still can't support
10 it, but thanks for the suggestion.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Lumb, any other
12 questions? I still have you on the queue here
13 and I'm trying to figure out --
14 C/M LUMB: Yeah. Are you saying -- to
15 staff, would we be able to amend this to --
16 with the proviso that the service of alcohol on
17 sidewalks couldn't begin before 6 p.m. on a
18 Sunday?
19 I'm not the attorney here, so I don't -- I
20 don't know what we're allowed to -- you know,
21 what is the -- what's within our purview.
22 MR. REINGOLD: If that were the
23 (inaudible) of the council -- or the committee,
24 I would certainly work with you as to figure
25 out a way to get what you want into the
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1 ordinance code.
2 C/M LUMB: I would like to make a motion
3 to amend, that the -- for the service of
4 alcohol on sidewalks in the e zone on Sundays,
5 that they not be allowed to serve alcohol
6 before 6 p.m. in the evening on Sundays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we have a second?
8 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, just to clarify,
9 one of the things -- and we keep hearing it and
10 I get confused sometimes because we deal with
11 zoning exceptions that relate to outside sales
12 and service of alcohol and -- and when you look
13 at a restaurant and they have an outdoor
14 seating area and they have service out there.
15 In this instance, the sidewalk cafes,
16 there's no actual direct service from the bar
17 to the area. It's -- a customer comes in and
18 would get a drink or something and go outside
19 and take it out to that area, so there's --
20 it's no direct service. It's a little less
21 intense than that. It's just an optional
22 thing, basically.
23 C/M LUMB: Are you saying there's no way
24 we could restrict it, the exercise of that
25 option on a Sunday prior to 6 p.m., or are you
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1 saying it would be problematic?
2 MR. KELLY: No, that wouldn't be
3 problematic at all. I just wanted to explain
4 the service itself was not actual direct
5 service to the customer out on the sidewalk,
6 that it was -- it was just up to the customer
7 to take their drink to the sidewalk.
8 C/M LUMB: But, historically -- through
9 the Chair, but, historically, the City has
10 exercised its police powers by saying -- by
11 restricting the public or outside consumption
12 of alcohol on City property and so that we
13 would simply be saying in the case of these
14 cafes that were permitted for outside service
15 that they would -- that that permit would be
16 restricted in such a way as that on Sundays
17 their patrons would not be allowed to exercise
18 that option until 6 p.m., and we could do that?
19 MR. KELLY: Yes, you could do that.
20 C/M LUMB: Thank you.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. There was a motion.
22 Do we have a second?
23 C/M BOYER: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dylan.
25 MR. REINGOLD: I apologize. I'm coming a
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1 little late to this game.
2 If -- I wouldn't mind just hearing the
3 amendment one more time, and the reason being
4 is I'm going through the downtown sidewalk cafe
5 provisions -- and certainly Mr. Lindstrom is
6 probably much more familiar with them than I
7 am. I'm trying to get a sense of, do you want
8 to prevent a -- have an hour -- or limitation
9 on the bars serving alcohol outdoors but not
10 have any type of restriction on any of the
11 other downtown sidewalk cafes? I just want to
12 make a clarification of that.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lumb.
14 C/M LUMB: Meaning do we -- do I -- as
15 part of the amendment, inclusive of that, do I
16 want to place a similar restriction on
17 restaurants?
18 MR. REINGOLD: (Nods head.)
19 C/M LUMB: Yes, I think I would --
20 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair --
21 C/M LUMB: -- for the sake of consistency.
22 MR. REINGOLD: Okay. But -- and then I've
23 got a follow-up issue.
24 If the amendment is to have a restriction
25 on everybody serving alcohol outdoors on Sunday
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1 until -- I believe 7 p.m. or 6 p.m. -- 6 p.m.,
2 then you've got restaurants that people could
3 be outside, but they just can't take their
4 drinks outside, but you would have -- bars
5 essentially would be prohibited. And my
6 question is, to the committee, you might want
7 to talk to or ask staff is -- how they might
8 feel that might prohibit the current existing
9 restaurants that are operating now and how they
10 function on Sundays.
11 C/M LUMB: Excellent point.
12 What's the -- what's the rule that applies
13 today for restaurants, not bars, restaurants?
14 MR. REINGOLD: Eric.
15 MR. LINDSTROM: I wasn't prepared for that
16 question, so I'm going through the code here to
17 figure out if there is any. I don't think --
18 the sidewalk cafe doesn't get into hours, once
19 again. I mean, the hours would be tied to the
20 hours of the operation. And they have already
21 set that before they even apply for the permit,
22 so --
23 C/M LUMB: What's the -- if you have one
24 of those permits, what's the -- let's say a
25 bar, what is the earliest that a bar -- at
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1 least permits -- what's the earliest they
2 begin -- can begin serving alcohol? They have
3 to shut down at a certain time in the morning.
4 What time is the earliest they're allowed to
5 reopen? Anybody know?
6 MR. REINGOLD: To the council member, and
7 I'm just shooting from the hip on this one, but
8 I believe Chapter 154 of our ordinance code
9 governs the hours of sale of alcohol.
10 Hours of sale, Section 154.301. They're
11 essentially Monday through Sunday from 6 a.m.
12 until 2 a.m.; however, you can remain open
13 between 2 a.m. and 6 a.m. as long as no
14 alcoholic beverages are sold. That is a
15 general hours of operation restriction on the
16 sale of alcoholic beverages throughout the
17 city.
18 C/M LUMB: Repeat those times again.
19 MR. REINGOLD: Essentially you can't serve
20 alcohol or sell alcohol between 2 a.m. and
21 6 a.m.
22 C/M LUMB: So at 6 a.m. they can crank up
23 and go back to biz?
24 MR. REINGOLD: I'm just looking at
25 Section 154.301, and that's the restrictions.
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1 I'm not sure if there are any other
2 restrictions elsewhere.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly.
4 MR. KELLY: I just wanted to point out --
5 I mean, sidewalk cafes, not only downtown,
6 are -- are fairly common. They're common in
7 other parts of the city that wouldn't have the
8 same regulations imposed on them. In San Marco
9 there's a sidewalk cafe area designation, as
10 well as King and -- Park and King in Riverside,
11 St. Johns Avenue in Avondale, the Five Points
12 area. They currently have the ability for
13 sidewalk cafes as well, and it seems a little
14 ironic to impose a stricter condition in an
15 entertainment district, you know, downtown
16 overlay, than what would be imposed in areas
17 that are predominantly surrounded by
18 residential.
19 C/M LUMB: Through the Chair -- and we
20 talk about Five Points, San Marco. We're
21 talking about cafes, we're talking about
22 establishments that serve food -- at least
23 51 percent of their sales, food, and the
24 remainder alcohol, correct? We're not talking
25 about bars?
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1 MR. KELLY: No, there are bars included in
2 that -- in those areas.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: If I could exercise a
4 privilege because it seems like we're
5 definitely going down a -- what I consider a
6 slippery slope, and also just thinking about
7 one other probably prime time on Sunday
8 downtown or at any restaurant or bar, during
9 football season those games are 1 o'clock, and
10 so we're really starting to -- as I heard,
11 we're placing a requirement or criteria in
12 different areas of the city, and I'm sure we
13 have the same structure or setup of churches
14 and people, passersby in those areas, such as
15 San Marco and other areas that currently allow
16 for cafes on the sidewalk.
17 I'm leaning towards -- unless there's, you
18 know, some overwhelming convincing reason why
19 we should not -- I think it's a great thing. I
20 do understand that -- the district councilman's
21 concerns, but I would like to -- because we
22 are -- and not that alcohol is going to be
23 the -- be in the driver's seat of what makes
24 downtown or break downtown, but I would like
25 to -- my recommendation is to defer it, to give
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1 JEDC an opportunity -- Mr. Eric, to speak with
2 Mr. Redman or whomever, the entire body, give
3 you -- just give you that opportunity, and we
4 come back the next committee meeting. I just
5 hate to see us move forward -- we can move
6 forward and vote it up or down, that's fine,
7 but I just -- it just seems like it's a lot of
8 uncertainties out here at this particular time
9 and I don't know whether we're ready to move
10 forward with this or not.
11 C/M LUMB: Motion to defer.
12 C/M HOLT: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a --
14 C/M HOLT: (Inaudible.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: We have a motion to defer
16 by Mr. Lumb, a second by Mr. Holt.
17 All in favor.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Do we have any nays?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: I didn't hear any.
22 Thank you.
23 We're going to defer this particular item,
24 2011-443, until the next agenda meeting.
25 MR. REINGOLD: The next meeting.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The next meeting.
2 Thank you, sir.
3 All right. Let's move on to item number
4 10. My understanding, this is going to be a
5 public hearing; am I correct?
6 MR. REINGOLD: Yes.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So we want to go
8 ahead and declare ex-parte.
9 MR. REINGOLD: Not --
10 THE CHAIRMAN: We don't need to do that.
11 We're just going to go straight to the --
12 open the public hearing.
13 MR. REINGOLD: No.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: We're going to -- go ahead.
15 MR. SMITH: Yes.
16 Mr. Chairman, members of the committee,
17 ordinance 2011-491 is an application for a
18 second amendment to a performance-based
19 development agreement for the purpose of
20 reserving traffic circulation capacity.
21 The parcel consists of approximately
22 13.3 acres and is located on Shad Road, between
23 Florida Mining Boulevard West and Hood Road
24 South. This proposed amendment has
25 approximately 86,965 enclosed square feet of
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1 warehouse uses still remaining to be built.
2 The duration of the development agreement is
3 for an additional five years. This agreement
4 was originally approved in 2001, first
5 amendment. That was for five years. The first
6 amendment extended that five years and then
7 this would also extend it another five years,
8 so --
9 The development agreement is subject to a
10 performance schedule and an annual renewal fee
11 each year that the agreement is in effect for
12 the remaining undeveloped, enclosed area.
13 Staff has reviewed the application for
14 compliance with 655 -- Chapter 655, Ordinance
15 Code, and does have a recommendation to
16 approve.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We're going to open
18 the public hearing. We have one speaker,
19 Kathryn Whittington.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: If you can give your name
22 and address for the record.
23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Kathryn Whittington,
24 Pappas, Meltcalf, Jenks & Miller. Address is
25 245 Riverside Avenue in Jacksonville.
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1 I'm here for questions only. I don't have
2 anything to add to the staff report if you have
3 no questions for me.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. No questions?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I do have -- let
7 me -- is this pertaining -- Mr. Redman, do you
8 have a question for this one right now?
9 C/M REDMAN: No, I'm sorry.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: No? Let me take it off my
11 thing.
12 Okay. Thank you.
13 I don't have any questions. That's going
14 to close the public hearing.
15 C/M BOYER: Move the bill.
16 C/M CARTER: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion to
18 move the bill by Ms. Boyer, second by
19 Mr. Carter.
20 Do we have any questions?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor -- we're going
23 to put it on the ballot.
24 We're going to open the ballot.
25 (Committee ballot opened.)
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1 C/M BROWN: (Votes yea.)
2 C/M HOLT: (Votes yea.)
3 C/M BOYER: (Votes yea.)
4 C/M CARTER: (Votes yea.)
5 C/M LUMB: (Votes yea.)
6 C/M REDMAN: (Votes Yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Six yeas, zero nay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. By your actions, you
10 have approved 2011-491.
11 Item numbers 11 through -- all the way
12 through 29 are second rerefers.
13 Do we have any other business?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 STAFF MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I do want to extend
17 an apology for being late, and I thank the
18 vice chairman, Mr. Holt, for sitting in for me.
19 I had an emergency that I had to attend to, but
20 I do appreciate the support.
21 I think that that adjourns the meeting.
22 Thank you.
23 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
24 6:10 p.m.
25 - - -
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1 CERTIFICATE
2
3 STATE OF FLORIDA)
)
4 COUNTY OF DUVAL )
5
6
7 I, Diane M. Tropia, Court Reporter,
8 certify that I was authorized to and did
9 stenographically report the foregoing proceedings
10 and that the transcript is a true and complete
11 record of my stenographic notes.
12
13
14
15 DATED this 21st day of August, 2011.
16
17 ___________________________
18 Diane M. Tropia
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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