CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
LAND USE AND ZONING
COMMITTEE
Proceedings held on Tuesday, June 21,
2011, commencing at 5:03 p.m., City Hall, Council
Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before
Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the
State of Florida at Large.
PRESENT:
JOHN CRESCIMBENI, Chair.
RAY HOLT, Vice Chair.
WILLIAM BISHOP, Committee Member.
DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.
DICK BROWN, Committee Member.
REGINALD BROWN, Committee Member.
ALSO PRESENT:
BILL KILLINGSWORTH, Director, Planning Dept.
LORI BOYER, Council Member-Elect.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
STEPHEN SMITH, Planning and Development Dept.
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
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2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
June 21, 2011 5:03 p.m.
2 - - -
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Good evening,
4 everyone.
5 We're going to call the June 21st, 2011,
6 Land Use and Zoning Committee meeting to order.
7 And, Mr. Crofts, will you start us off
8 with the introductions.
9 MR. CROFTS: My name is John Crofts, and
10 I'm deputy director of Planning.
11 Thank you.
12 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
13 Development.
14 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
15 Development.
16 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
17 Development.
18 MR. REINGOLD: Dylan Reingold with the
19 Office of General Counsel.
20 And I note that this is our last LUZ
21 meeting this year, and I just want to
22 appreciate -- say -- express my appreciation to
23 all the committee members and the chair for
24 another good year on LUZ.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Reingold.
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1 We'll have some comments at the end of the
2 meeting with that regard.
3 Mr. Brown.
4 MR. D. BROWN: Here, here.
5 I'm Dick Brown, District 13, City Council.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm John Crescimbeni,
7 at-large, Group 2.
8 MR. HOLT: Ray Holt, District 11.
9 MR. BISHOP: Bill Bishop, District 2.
10 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, District 4.
11 MS. BOYER: Lori Boyer, District 5,
12 Councilmember-elect.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, all.
14 Mr. Reingold, we have a fairly short
15 agenda tonight. Would you like to read the LUZ
16 statement and get us started?
17 And let the record reflect that
18 Councilmember Joost has joined us as well.
19 MR. REINGOLD: Absolutely, to the Chair.
20 Anyone who would like to address the
21 Committee tonight must fill out a yellow
22 speaker's card in its entirety. The yellow
23 speakers' cards are located on the desk up
24 front, near the podium. Once they are
25 completed, please return the speaker's card to
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1 the basket on the front desk.
2 Any person who lobbies the City for
3 compensation is considered a lobbyist and is
4 therefore required to register their lobbying
5 activity with the City Council secretary.
6 If you are a lobbyist and have not
7 registered with the City Council secretary, you
8 will not permitted to address the Committee
9 tonight.
10 Because a verbatim transcript of this
11 meeting will be prepared by a court reporter,
12 it is important that you speak clearly into the
13 microphone when you address the Committee.
14 It's also important that only one person speak
15 at a time.
16 Any tangible materials submitted with your
17 presentations, such as documents or
18 photographs, shall become a permanent part of
19 the public record and will be retained by the
20 Committee.
21 As a courtesy, please switch any cell
22 phones, pagers, or audible devices to a silent
23 mode.
24 Additionally, there shall be no public
25 displays of support or opposition, so please
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1 refrain from applause or speaking out of turn.
2 Items are generally addressed in the order
3 in which they are listed on the agenda. Copies
4 of the agenda are located on the desk up front,
5 near the podium.
6 On occasion, the items may be heard out of
7 order for the sake of efficiency or to
8 accommodate a scheduling conflict.
9 Unless there is a formal hearing on any
10 particular item, each member of the public is
11 limited to a single three-minute presentation.
12 These presentations should be focused, concise,
13 and address only the item pending before the
14 Committee.
15 Prior to addressing the Committee, please
16 state your name and address for the court
17 reporter.
18 Decisions on rezonings, waivers of road
19 frontage, and sign waivers, are all considered
20 quasi-judicial in nature and certain protocols
21 will be followed for these proceedings.
22 First, each council member must disclose
23 on the record any ex-parte communications they
24 have had with any members of the public prior
25 to the hearing on each applicable item. This
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1 includes a brief statement of when that
2 communication took place, who the communication
3 was with, and what the subject matter of the
4 communication was about.
5 Second, the normal format is to allow the
6 applicant, or agent thereof, to make their
7 presentation first, followed by members of the
8 public who wish to speak in support of the
9 item, then members of the public who are in
10 opposition will be allowed to speak.
11 After all the public comments have been
12 received, the applicant will have a brief
13 opportunity to wrap up or present a brief
14 rebuttal. The wrap-up or rebuttal shall be
15 limited to the issues brought up by the
16 speakers.
17 In some instances, the Chair may permit a
18 concise surrebuttal or response to the
19 applicant's rebuttal, which will then be
20 followed by a brief final response by the
21 applicant.
22 Finally, all quasi-judicial decisions must
23 be based on substantial and competent evidence.
24 This means that the Committee's decision must
25 be supported by either fact-based testimony or
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1 expert testimony and not just generalized
2 concerns or opinions.
3 Thank you very much.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Reingold.
5 Your reading of that statement over the
6 past 12 months has really progressed. You have
7 so much passion and inflection in there now, if
8 you ever give up the career of law, you may
9 want to consider -- and I'll even write you a
10 reference -- you could be one of those
11 pharmaceutical company disclaimer guys at the
12 end of the commercial. You'd be excellent.
13 (Inaudible discussion.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Exactly. Dylan Reingold,
15 voiceover man.
16 All right. Page 2 of the agenda, item 1,
17 2010-670 is deferred, as is item 2, 2011-158,
18 and item 3, 2011-159.
19 Turning to page 3 at the top, item 4,
20 2011-252 is deferred.
21 Item 5, 2011-254 --
22 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Did you want to defer this,
24 Ms. Rinaman?
25 MS. RINAMAN: (Shakes head.)
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: No, take it up. Okay.
2 (Mr. R. Brown enters the proceedings.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill -- let's
4 hear from Mr. Killingsworth. Let's get his
5 report and then we'll entertain a motion.
6 And let the record reflect that Councilman
7 Reggie Brown has now joined us as well.
8 MR. KILLINGSWORTH: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Bill Killingsworth, director of Planning
11 and Development.
12 Late last year, the mayor challenged the
13 Department to find ways to incentivize and
14 create live/work space downtown for artists, so
15 what we looked at was how could we leverage
16 what was working already. And the two things
17 that we identified was working already was the
18 Art Walk, in which DVI sponsored about seven
19 years ago and it has been ongoing, which
20 generates 4- to 6,000 visitors to downtown once
21 a month.
22 The other thing that is working for us
23 right now is a program called Off the Grid,
24 which is a partnership between the Cultural
25 Council and DVI, which is where they attempt to
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1 locate artist galleries in vacant retail space
2 downtown.
3 So in looking at those two things, the
4 Department conducted a feasibility study. And
5 we looked at, A, whether or not there was
6 interest from the artist community in having
7 live work space downtown, whether or not that
8 interest actually translated into a market.
9 And then we looked at potential sites, and we
10 did some financial -- preliminary financial
11 feasibility on two sites. The third site we
12 looked at as a concept for JU. They were
13 interested in potentially moving a film school
14 downtown.
15 As part of those preliminary
16 recommendations of the feasibility study, two
17 things -- actually, three things came out of
18 that.
19 One, there was a recommendation that we
20 create this collaborative work group to lead
21 this program, which we call the Urban Arts
22 Initiative, and that right now is made up of
23 the Planning Department, Housing, JEDC, DVI,
24 and the Cultural Council, that we set a target
25 area.
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1 Additionally, in talking with some of the
2 partners that would be potential finance
3 partners, at least one of them expressed to us
4 that they couldn't partner with us financially
5 on a specific building. However, if we had a
6 plan that encompassed the district, then they
7 would be much more able to partner with us,
8 which led to our target area.
9 Our target area for the arts -- I don't
10 want to call it an arts district because at
11 this time it's actually a target area -- falls
12 from Newnan to Hogan, and then Adams Street and
13 Forsyth Street are the corridors. That is
14 basically where Art Walk takes place right now.
15 Additionally, that is where a number of
16 facilities are in that are -- either currently
17 have artists in them or are conducive to being
18 converted to art space. It also provides us a
19 focused investment area so that any investment
20 we do do can generate additional activity. And
21 it's compact and walkable. It's well within a
22 ten-minute walkable distance.
23 The plan's composed of two parts. The
24 first part is basically the setup. It is --
25 the first task is actually the adoption of this
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1 resolution supporting the target area. One of
2 the other tasks is to broaden the collaborative
3 team so that we have artists on the team, we
4 have a private sector on the team. The needs
5 of downtown are such that it will take
6 everybody who is interested, so we'll need the
7 private sector, the nonprofit sector, and the
8 public sector as well.
9 There are policies in place to support
10 housing. Obviously, this is a live/work effort
11 to support transit and transportation and to
12 build a sense of community in this district.
13 We also have some measures which will
14 generate a -- measures of success, which we can
15 use to determine whether or not we're going in
16 the right way or not.
17 Phase 2 of the district, the plan is
18 really the long-term plan. That will be if we
19 determine the need to actually create and
20 designate an arts district and any incentives
21 that we feel should be there. It furthers the
22 housing, transportation and community goals,
23 and ongoing monitoring; we call it maintenance
24 of the plan so that we're measuring the -- our
25 measures of success in determining whether or
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1 not we should adjust the plan based off those
2 measures.
3 With that, the Department would recommend
4 you approve 2011-254.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you,
6 Mr. Killingsworth.
7 Mr. Killingsworth, did -- I'm assuming,
8 like, folks like Downtown Vision and all are --
9 were they a part of this process or --
10 MR. KILLINGSWORTH: Yes. They're actually
11 part of the Urban Arts Initiative team. We've
12 had -- the people in the initial discussion was
13 the Department, Housing and Neighborhoods,
14 JEDC, the Cultural Council, and DVI.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
16 Any questions from the Committee?
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: And SPARK doesn't stand for
19 anything, right?
20 MR. KILLINGSWORTH: It does not stand for
21 anything.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: You need to come up with
23 something; Siting Participating Artists'
24 Residencies in the Core or something. You've
25 got to come up with something.
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1 MR. KILLINGSWORTH: We can come up with an
2 acronym for it.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. No questions
4 from the Committee.
5 All right. Is there a motion?
6 MR. HOLT: Move the bill.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion by Mr. Holt --
8 MR. D. BROWN: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: -- second by Mr. Brown.
10 Dick Brown I heard first.
11 Any discussion?
12 If not -- Ms. Rinaman, did you want to
13 speak to this bill?
14 MS. RINAMAN: No.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you want us to defer it?
16 MS. RINAMAN: No, sir.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: NO, okay. All those --
18 open the ballot.
19 Please vote.
20 (Committee ballot opened.)
21 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
3 (Committee ballot closed.)
4 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nay.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
6 approved item 5, 2011-254.
7 Thank you, Mr. Killingsworth, Ms. Rinaman.
8 Item 6, 2011-316.
9 Mr. Huxford, the report, please.
10 MR. HUXFORD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 Ordinance 2011-316 is a sign waiver
12 application, Sign Waiver 11-04, for property at
13 5800 Beach Boulevard -- this is a shopping
14 center just to the west of University
15 Boulevard -- seeking to reduce the minimum
16 setback for an existing sign from ten feet to
17 five feet.
18 The signage was installed in the 1980s,
19 but the property changed hands in 2003. And
20 under the terms of the code, any existing
21 signage should have been brought into
22 compliance.
23 At this point, the applicants wish to make
24 certain cosmetic improvements to the sign. We
25 do note that the -- if they were forced to move
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1 the sign back ten -- or back by five feet,
2 there would be some infrastructure that would
3 be impacted, and also there are some nice oak
4 trees that are out there that would probably
5 have to be trimmed back. So we believe there
6 is a public purpose in allowing them to
7 maintain the sign at the current location.
8 So, with that, we are recommending
9 approval subject to one condition, and that is
10 that the monument-style base of the sign shall
11 not exceed 24 inches in height. There is not a
12 monument base right now, but as part of the
13 cosmetic improvements, if they wish to install
14 one, we would want to limit that height to
15 24 inches in order to maintain visibility for
16 motorists.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry, Mr. Huxford.
19 Is -- there's no requirement to install a
20 monument base, but if -- in the event that they
21 did, it couldn't be any more than 24 inches; is
22 that what you're saying?
23 MR. HUXFORD: That's correct.
24 In the event -- as part of their
25 modifications, if they want to add a base to
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1 spruce up the sign, we just don't want it to be
2 higher than 24 inches off the ground.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
4 Any questions from the Committee for
5 Mr. Huxford?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. This is a
8 quasi-judicial matter. Does anyone have any
9 ex-parte communication to disclose?
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Seeing none, we have
12 a public hearing scheduled this evening.
13 The public hearing is open.
14 I have one speaker's card, Ken Bringle.
15 Mr. Bringle.
16 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
18 My name is Ken Bringle with CNS Signs.
19 First of all, I want to thank you for the
20 recommendation and checking -- looking at this
21 application and giving us that setback approval
22 to reduce it.
23 I would ask if there's a possibility --
24 you know, you talk about the two-foot base at
25 the bottom of the sign, we can work with that
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1 if we have to. We would like to raise that, if
2 we could, simply because we have an electrical
3 box that is mounted to one of the poles down
4 there that supplies the electrical to the sign
5 itself, and that is sitting up a little bit
6 higher than two feet, and we want to encase
7 that inside of the enclosure or the base that
8 you're requiring to be two foot high. If we
9 could increase that to three foot or four foot,
10 then we could still have our -- the shopping
11 center numbers on there for, you know, any kind
12 of emergency vehicles to be able to see that
13 rather than stick it on a pole -- you know, if
14 you stick it on one leg, it becomes harder for
15 them to see that, and it would be easier for
16 them to see if it's at the bottom, like the
17 drawing that we put in for the approval, which
18 is a colored drawing that we have. And -- but
19 it would also protect that electrical, where
20 right now it's not protected, and we would
21 replace that electrical box so that it could be
22 protected inside.
23 And we understand -- you know, the owner
24 of the property is investing quite a bit of
25 money to refurbish this and make it look nice
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1 and -- you know, so we want to keep it from
2 looking blighted, but we also want to keep it
3 protected to keep that electrical so that, you
4 know, people don't play with it, people don't
5 mess with it.
6 And the other thing that will be happening
7 is there is some landscape that will be done
8 below that sign that will spruce that up --
9 that area up as well. And we don't want to
10 have it to cover up any of those things, you
11 know, with the address and things like that.
12 So if it's -- if we could ask that that be
13 raised up another foot or two, we would
14 appreciate it, but we can work with the
15 two foot if we have to.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bringle.
17 Any questions from the Committee?
18 I have a couple of people on the queue,
19 but what is the height of the electrical box?
20 MR. BRINGLE: It's actually right around
21 three feet.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: And when you say "encased,"
23 I mean, it still has to be -- you still have to
24 be able to access the box, right?
25 MR. BRINGLE: Yeah. It will have an
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1 access door to be able to get to it so that we
2 can --
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
4 Mr. Joost, followed by Mr. Redman.
5 MR. JOOST: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
6 So another foot will do it?
7 MR. BRINGLE: Yeah. I think we could work
8 with a foot. We drew it up as a four-foot-high
9 base, just to keep the numbers up and things
10 like that, but I think we could -- you know,
11 one foot would be better than the two foot
12 because I think the shrubs or any of the
13 landscape might start to cover that up at some
14 point.
15 MR. JOOST: Mr. Huxford, can we go a foot
16 or two foot? What's your --
17 MR. KELLY: Through the Chair to
18 Councilmember Joost, the Department had
19 concerns. There's a section of the code with
20 intersection visibility, 656.1218, that says
21 nothing over two feet can block the sight
22 triangle at the driveway.
23 So I guess the issue is, does it violate
24 the sight triangle at the driveway? If it's
25 outside a ten-foot sight triangle within the
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1 right-of-way, then we don't have an issue. And
2 my understanding, in looking at the location,
3 it was hard to decipher that. So if we could
4 maybe revise our condition to read that he
5 shall otherwise just comply with 656.1218,
6 meeting the sight triangle distance, then I
7 think -- because, otherwise, he's conflicting
8 with a separate section of the code that would
9 require another AD or variance or some other
10 application. So I'd like to either have it
11 conform or keep it at the height.
12 MR. JOOST: Okay. That -- we'll discuss
13 it later. That's my question for the -- for
14 Mr. Bringle.
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Joost.
17 Mr. Redman.
18 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 How close is this sign to the driveway? I
20 know this would affect eastbound traffic,
21 somebody coming from eastbound traffic. The
22 driveway -- I'm familiar with this in my
23 district, so -- I don't think it's close to the
24 driveway, is it?
25 MR. BRINGLE: No. Actually, today went
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1 and took pictures of it, brought my -- a
2 vehicle out there so we could show how far you
3 can see down when a vehicle is parked there
4 before it pulls out into Beach Boulevard.
5 And if you wanted to look at these
6 pictures, you'll see that -- if a vehicle is
7 stopped right at the edge of the asphalt before
8 it even gets to the sidewalk that's there, you
9 can see all the way down to Beach -- to
10 University Boulevard without any obstruction
11 whatsoever.
12 And the window -- I measured from that
13 edge of the truck, from the front of the truck
14 to the window where you can see, and that was
15 seven feet back, and there was still -- the
16 pole was further back than that for the first
17 pole of the sign.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bringle, can you submit
19 those pictures for the record and we'll get
20 those passed around?
21 MR. BRINGLE: Sure. I made four sets of
22 them, so --
23 MR. REDMAN: Okay. You say you were in a
24 truck observing this?
25 MR. BRINGLE: Yeah. This was in a pickup
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1 truck, a Ford F-150.
2 MR. REDMAN: When you have small cars,
3 that would be pretty low to the ground that
4 would be coming out, and that would be a big
5 difference for height.
6 MR. BRINGLE: Right. Well, the height
7 didn't make a difference because everything
8 went in front of the sign, so there was never
9 an obstruction in front of you to see down
10 either direction.
11 MR. REDMAN: Okay. So the sign is right
12 near the entrance to Hardy's, right?
13 MR. BRINGLE: Yes -- or no. It's Arby's.
14 MR. REDMAN: Arby's, yeah. Okay.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm surprised you could see
16 anything if you took those pictures today.
17 MR. BRINGLE: Yeah.
18 MR. REDMAN: It looks pretty smokey in
19 these pictures.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Anything else, Mr. Redman?
21 MR. REDMAN: No. I think that's --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
23 Mr. Huxford, when -- who shot the pictures
24 in the report? Or, I'm sorry -- yeah,
25 Mr. Huxford, who shot the pictures in the
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1 report?
2 MR. HUXFORD: Aaron Glick on our Planning
3 Department staff.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Would they not -- while
5 they're out there taking pictures, would they
6 not think about evaluating the sight triangle?
7 MR. HUXFORD: I can't speak for the
8 consideration that he gave, but it certainly
9 would be very handy to have that in the staff
10 report.
11 MR. KELLY: To the Chair, we would propose
12 removing the condition.
13 I've scaled it out on the site plan, and
14 it is -- from all appearances, based on the
15 site plan that was submitted with the
16 application, which is at a 40 scale -- it's in
17 your book also -- it appears to meet the
18 10-foot sight triangle, so we have no concerns
19 for the sign location.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
21 MR. KELLY: We would just request to
22 strike the condition in its entirety.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
24 All right. Any other questions for the
25 speaker, Mr. Bringle?
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
3 Mr. Bringle.
4 Anyone else care to address the Committee?
5 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
7 the public hearing is closed.
8 MR. JOOST: Move the bill.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Motion on the
10 bill by Mr. Joost.
11 MR. R. BROWN: Second.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Second by Mr. Brown.
13 MR. JOOST: (Inaudible.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Your motion was to grant
15 the waiver --
16 MR. JOOST: Yes, sir.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: -- by Mr. Joost, second by
18 Mr. Brown.
19 All right. Mr. Holt.
20 Discussion.
21 MR. HOLT: Including striking that
22 condition?
23 MR. JOOST: (Nods head.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: That would be requiring an
25 amendment, and there's been no motion for the
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1 amendment.
2 Mr. Reingold.
3 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to the
4 Committee, I sort of heard the motion was
5 essentially an amendment, to amend -- the
6 amendment was to grant.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I stand corrected.
8 But there's no amendment on the condition,
9 right? The condition is not -- was the
10 condition part of the bill?
11 MR. REINGOLD: No, it's not.
12 I just heard the amendment was essentially
13 to approve the waiver. And since there was no
14 reference to the condition, that that's it. It
15 was just straight up --
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. The motion-maker,
17 Mr. Joost, made no reference to the fact that
18 the base had to be 24 inches. He is simply
19 moving the bill and -- offering an amendment to
20 move the bill by granting the waiver.
21 Are you -- does that answer your question?
22 MR. HOLT: Yes.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Any discussion
24 on -- I'm sorry. Mr. Bishop.
25 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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1 It sounds like the motion at the moment is
2 being made with the two-foot height. It is
3 not?
4 MR. REINGOLD: No.
5 MR. BISHOP: Okay. All right. So you
6 deleted -- okay.
7 Got it. Thanks.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Joost.
9 MR. JOOST: Yes, I'm fine.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. On the
11 amendment to grant the waiver, absent of the
12 requirement for any height restriction on the
13 base, is there any further discussion?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: On the amendment, all those
16 in favor, say yes.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
21 adopted the amendment.
22 MR. BISHOP: Move the bill as amended.
23 MR. JOOST: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
25 amended by Mr. Bishop, second by Mr. Joost.
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1 Any discussion?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, open the ballot.
4 Vote.
5 (Committee ballot opened.)
6 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
13 (Committee ballot closed.)
14 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nay.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
16 approved item 6, 2011-316, as amended to grant
17 the waiver.
18 Turning to page 4, item 7 at the top,
19 2011-317.
20 Mr. Kelly.
21 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
22 To the Chair and Council members,
23 ordinance 2011-317, Sign Waiver 11-05, seeks to
24 allow for a reduction in the distance between
25 two signs from 200 feet to 128 feet.
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1 This proposed sign is for the Edward
2 Waters College campus. It is a 48-square-foot
3 sign, approximately 8 feet tall. It has an
4 electric message board on a part of the sign.
5 The Department has reviewed this request.
6 We find that it meets the criteria.
7 Additionally, the Community Planning Division
8 had reviewed this in concert with the Kings
9 Road/Beaver Street Neighborhood Action Plan,
10 and also found it consistent with that.
11 We find that this sign, based on the
12 area -- in terms of sign area and the necessity
13 for a sign of this type for the college, we
14 find it's compatible with the existing sign --
15 contiguous signage within the area.
16 We find that this would not negatively
17 alter the aesthetic character of the
18 surrounding area nor would it have any
19 detrimental effect on vehicular traffic or
20 parking conditions.
21 We find that, again, it does meet the
22 criteria, and there's a compelling public
23 interest in promoting this sign.
24 Therefore, the Department is recommending
25 approval without condition.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
2 Mr. Kelly.
3 This is a quasi-judicial -- I'm sorry,
4 does anybody have any questions for Mr. Kelly?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 Mr. Reingold?
7 MR. REINGOLD: No.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. This is a
9 quasi-judicial matter. Does anyone have any
10 ex-parte communication to disclose?
11 MR. KELLY: There's an amendment
12 actually -- okay.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I do have -- I
14 received an e-mail from Celia Miller, and I'm
15 going to submit that for the record. And I
16 think the record may already have that, but
17 everybody -- she asked me to provide copies,
18 and Merriane was gracious enough to do that, so
19 you should have a copy of that in front of you.
20 All right. We have a public hearing
21 scheduled in this matter this evening.
22 The public hearing is open.
23 I have two speakers, George Dandelake,
24 followed by Celia Miller.
25 Mr. Dandelake.
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1 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sir, George Dandelake,
3 representing Edward Waters College, 1658 Kings
4 Road, Jacksonville, Florida, 32209.
5 As was stated, what we're requesting is a
6 waiver of the 200-foot minimum distance between
7 signs.
8 The reason for the request is -- you can
9 see in the handout that was provided by the
10 Planning Department, there's a large -- in the
11 buildings, you have the library, the Centennial
12 Building, and the Student Union Building. And
13 that park area in there is where the students
14 gather. There's Greek monument-type things out
15 there for the sororities and fraternities.
16 And the reason we picked this area is
17 twofold. It's where the students gather and,
18 second, as most of you know, we have -- not
19 only want messages to go out to the students,
20 but also we hold many events on the weekends
21 and at different times in the Student Union, in
22 the gym area for organizations in the
23 neighborhood and other organizations.
24 So this -- the purpose of the sign is to
25 put the messages out of what's going on at the
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1 college.
2 And we have looked at it, and we could go
3 back -- if we could not get the waiver, we
4 could go back and it would go right in front,
5 basically, of the library to comply with the
6 200-foot distance, but this would defeat the
7 whole purpose to have it visible to the people
8 in the community as well as the students going
9 along Kings Road.
10 And the location is -- there's pictures in
11 the package that were taken of what we're
12 asking for, that it be located directly behind
13 the bus shelter that was placed when they did
14 the improvements on Kings Road, and it's
15 visible from both directions if you're coming
16 east or west on Kings Road.
17 Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Dandelake.
19 Questions --
20 MR. DANDELAKE: I do support the Planning
21 Department's recommendation.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Questions from the
23 Committee?
24 Mr. Reggie Brown.
25 MR. R. BROWN: Yes. Through the Chair,
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1 I'm understanding clearly where you're
2 considering putting this sign.
3 There's some concerns from some neighbors
4 in the community about it being too close to
5 the bus shelter that's recently been put -- you
6 know, developed right there in front of the
7 library on that walkway -- near the walkway up
8 into the Student Union Building.
9 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
10 MR. R. BROWN: Have you considered moving
11 it -- moving it further towards the -- I
12 guess -- which plot would that be -- Phi Beta
13 Sigma, closer to the -- that intersection where
14 Schell-Sweet is at versus right by the bus
15 station? Because what I'm hearing is that
16 that's the concern, that -- safety for folks
17 that are sitting at the bus stop waiting, and
18 drivers reading the sign are paying more
19 attention to the sign versus the road. And if
20 folks are sitting there and they just happen to
21 go off the curb -- which I've never heard of
22 any accidents there, I have to tell you, in
23 my --
24 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes.
25 MR. R. BROWN: -- time on Kings Road, but
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1 just trying to create a happy medium with the
2 neighbors, have you thought about moving it
3 closer towards the Schell-Sweet and it will
4 serve the same purpose?
5 MR. DANDELAKE: We could look at it.
6 We tried to have it where it would be
7 visible if you're going east toward town on
8 Kings Road, where you could pick it up. As you
9 know, the Student Union Building kind of juts
10 out --
11 MR. R. BROWN: Right.
12 MR. DANDELAKE: -- close to it, and we
13 tried to get that little space in there, where
14 people going east could get a glimpse of it
15 coming that way, and that was the purpose in
16 laying out with the -- with the installer as
17 possibly the best location.
18 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Have you had an
19 opportunity to speak with Councilman Jones?
20 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
21 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. And his position on
22 this?
23 MR. DANDELAKE: We had met out there and
24 showed where the layout would be, and he was
25 all right with that location.
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1 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. And did you conduct
2 a meeting with the community?
3 MR. DANDELAKE: No, sir.
4 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Thank you.
5 MR. DANDELAKE: I did talk to -- after
6 the -- if I could respond.
7 I did talk to Ms. Miller after the council
8 meeting, the comments, and she had some
9 concerns about the possibility of whether we
10 might put it back right at where that sign --
11 the existing brick sign is, and I contacted the
12 sign installer. It could done, put on a post,
13 but you've got the original sign that's
14 two-faced, and it would just -- his feelings
15 were it would take away from the brick sign
16 that's currently at that corner.
17 MR. R. BROWN: No. I truly -- through the
18 Chair, I truly understand the purpose of the
19 sign. You want visibility. You don't want it
20 hidden --
21 MR. DANDELAKE: That's right.
22 MR. R. BROWN: -- where folks --
23 passers-by cannot read it. It defeats the
24 purpose. I do understand it.
25 I was just trying to -- understanding the
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1 campus, see could we -- between the
2 Schell-Sweet building and where the sign is
3 slated to go, to find a happy medium, but still
4 give you the same visibility.
5 I've not, you know, walked that area, and
6 so I just -- from sitting here, I can't tell
7 you.
8 MR. DANDELAKE: I could certainly look at
9 it, if we wanted to look at it and make sure it
10 would be -- if we moved it back closer to the
11 brick sign, if it would be visible coming
12 toward town -- east toward town on Kings Road.
13 I would certainly -- I don't know whether
14 it would have to require additional hearings
15 or --
16 MR. KELLY: Yes. I was going to bring
17 that up to Councilmember Brown, that if the
18 distance is reduced further than the advertised
19 distance proposed right now, it would be
20 basically -- have to be readvertised or
21 renoticed for another Land Use and Zoning
22 Committee.
23 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Yeah, well, I
24 wouldn't want to -- that's not my intentions.
25 I was just trying to see whether or not we
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1 could find a happy medium.
2 Now, I would like to make a
3 recommendation.
4 First of all, I need to find out if this
5 is time-sensitive. Are you ready to put this
6 in?
7 MR. DANDELAKE: We're ready to put it up,
8 but I'll be honest with you, it came -- what I
9 went with -- sorry.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. We're still in
11 public hearing. Mr. Brown has asked you a
12 question, so you're welcome to respond.
13 MR. DANDELAKE: Okay. When I went to the
14 college -- and May 17th was Sheriff -- then --
15 retired Sheriff Glover -- of last year, the
16 sign was there. It was obtained, it was my
17 understanding, under a grant. And it's been
18 sitting out there wrapped up, so a little more
19 time -- it's not time-sensitive.
20 MR. R. BROWN: All right. Thank you, sir.
21 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: The sign's already
23 installed?
24 MR. DANDELAKE: No, sir. The sign is
25 wrapped up. It was ordered under a grant.
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1 It's been there for over a year.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm assuming this is an
3 electronic message sign?
4 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: And did I understand you to
6 say that the students conduct activities and
7 congregate in the common area?
8 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: And you wanted to advertise
10 to them messages about what was going on?
11 MR. DANDELAKE: Not only them of what's
12 going on, but also the citizens in the
13 community.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Like what kind of events
15 would you be advertising?
16 MR. DANDELAKE: They have all kinds of
17 events. In the gymnasium down there, they had
18 a -- I forget exactly what they call it -- it
19 was -- a hundred black men had an event down
20 there for health screening type things. And
21 there's -- there's -- a lot of events like that
22 go on in the gymnasium area and the Resource
23 Center.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: And this is the Student
25 Center; is that what that building is?
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1 MR. DANDELAKE: There's two buildings in
2 that area. There's the Centennial Building,
3 which is the -- houses the library --
4 THE CHAIRMAN: That faces the -- I mean,
5 that's at the end -- that's at the back part of
6 the property, though, correct?
7 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: And the building that's up
9 on the front of the --
10 MR. DANDELAKE: Left-hand -- as you're
11 facing that, on the left-hand side is the
12 Student Union/Cafeteria area, yes, sir.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Any other
14 questions for Mr. Dandelake?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dandelake, that
17 building is, what, about 40 years old, 35 years
18 old?
19 MR. DANDELAKE: The Centennial Building is
20 the oldest building on campus --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: The Student Union.
22 MR. DANDELAKE: The Student Union, I'm not
23 sure how old that one is. I think --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Believe it or not, my
25 father was the dean of the faculty at Edward
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1 Waters College in the late '60s, early '70s,
2 and I remember that building. I used to hang
3 out on the campus on weekends and stuff.
4 All right. Any other questions for
5 Mr. Dandelake?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Ms. Miller.
8 MR. DANDELAKE: Thank you.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. And don't go
11 too far.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: State your name and address
14 for the record and then you can begin.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Celia Miller, 1440 North
16 Myrtle Avenue, 32209.
17 Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of
18 LUZ.
19 I'm here to express our concern of the
20 neighborhood association, Good Neighbor MANIA,
21 with a precedence which may be set if this is
22 allowed to go through as requested.
23 We are amenable to some alternatives. We
24 wish we had been notified about it earlier and
25 that we had had a chance to discuss it with our
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1 city councilmember, Mr. Jones, and that a
2 community meeting could have been held.
3 This may appear to be somewhat of a minor
4 situation, but we believe it could spiral into
5 something very significant and important to the
6 community as well as the college.
7 We have supported the college over the
8 years -- of 18 years that the Association has
9 been in existence, and we have supported them
10 in all of their efforts thinking that how goes
11 the college, so goes the community. And we
12 have worked with the last five presidents.
13 We feel that since the sign was ordered
14 without prior information on where it should
15 best go, we think that perhaps this may need to
16 be referred -- or deferred until the community
17 and the college administrators can
18 collaboratively agree on where would be the
19 most suitable and appropriate location for the
20 sign.
21 They have a new building, the gymnasium,
22 which is a block away. That new building has
23 no signage whatsoever. There's no name on the
24 building, there's no sign in front of the
25 building, and we are suggesting an alternative
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1 that this new sign that was ordered could very
2 appropriately be placed on the grounds of the
3 new gymnasium and would be available both for
4 the viewing of the students and the community.
5 And we wanted to make that point, stress
6 that point, emphasize that point to the
7 Planning Department as well as the LUZ so that
8 some collaboration and amelioration and
9 alternative agreement could be, you know,
10 decided and agreed upon.
11 So basically that's what I want to say,
12 and we don't feel that the college should
13 compare their request for signage with the need
14 for a commercial establishment. This is PBF
15 zoning. This is a historically black college
16 campus, and we feel the sign does not fit the
17 character of the common grounds.
18 May I continue?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, ma'am. Take another
20 minute or so to wrap up.
21 MS. MILLER: So if they feel that they
22 need the sign -- we feel that where they're
23 proposing the sign is not the best space
24 because there are already two adequate signs on
25 both ends of that block that very adequately
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1 and characteristically identifies the college.
2 There are two brick walls. In fact, the
3 college has three, maybe four brick walls that
4 suitably identify the college, and it ties in
5 with the historical architectural character and
6 identity of the college, and we would like for
7 that to be preserved as much as possible.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Miller.
9 Questions from the Committee?
10 MR. R. BROWN: Yes.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilman Reggie Brown.
12 MR. R. BROWN: Through the Chair to
13 Ms. Miller, when I'm listening to your
14 recommendation and you talk about suggesting
15 that the sign is moved from the current
16 location, to make sure I understand, your
17 concern is that the sign is placed directly
18 behind the bus shelter?
19 MS. MILLER: Yes. That's one of the risk
20 factors that we have identified.
21 The new bus shelter, it's one of eight or
22 ten bus shelters that have been installed along
23 the new pedestrian redesign of the main college
24 corridor. And we feel in order for it to
25 remain pedestrian-friendly and risk-free, that
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1 this sign would jeopardize the safety of the
2 bus riders as well as the vehicular drivers if
3 it were placed at that location.
4 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Thank you,
5 Ms. Miller. Let me -- because you answered the
6 question.
7 My next question goes over to Planning.
8 Do we know whether or not the sign request
9 application dates prior to JTA installing the
10 bus shelter? Because it seems like an ideal
11 location understanding the campus, and I do
12 believe that it's probably the best area, but
13 I'm just wondering which date exceeds.
14 MR. KELLY: The application was officially
15 filed on April 13th of this year.
16 I've had numerous meetings prior to that
17 with the sign contractors and folks from Edward
18 Waters as to finding a location and a suitable
19 location. There were some other parcels across
20 the street. This basically was the best
21 location for this, and worked out well with the
22 Student Center.
23 Now, the bus shelter itself -- there's a
24 picture in your staff report. It kind of gives
25 you that --
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly, hang on one
2 second.
3 Mr. Brown, was your question about a date?
4 MR. R. BROWN: Right.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Can you answer that
6 question? Did you answer it?
7 MR. R. BROWN: That date -- I have the
8 April 13th date, but what my real question is,
9 which one exceeds? Because I think it's a
10 great location, but if the bus shelter plans or
11 date --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we know when the bus
13 shelter was erected or --
14 MR. KELLY: I'm not aware of that. It's
15 probably close to the same time.
16 Perhaps the gentleman can come up.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Can you repeat that date,
18 sir? I missed it.
19 Mr. Kelly, what was the date?
20 MR. KELLY: The application was submitted
21 on April 13th.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Of this year?
23 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The drawing that's attached
25 to the application -- and it's in the book --
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1 by Stewart Sign Company, it lists Edward Waters
2 College and the address and everything. It's
3 dated March 10th of 2010.
4 MR. KELLY: Correct.
5 As I stated, we've -- you know, we've had
6 numerous conversations over the previous six
7 months, at least, with Edward Waters. This was
8 the location that was finalized through
9 multiple meetings and discussions.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
11 I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Brown.
12 Mr. Brown, did you want to ask
13 Mr. Dandelake about the date or Ms. Miller
14 about the date of the bus shelter?
15 MR. R. BROWN: No, nothing with the date.
16 Yes.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
18 MR. R. BROWN: Thank you.
19 But, Ms. Miller, I know that we had to
20 advertise that we were having community
21 meetings, and I just wanted to make sure that
22 we did due diligence.
23 From the Planning, if someone could tell
24 me whether or not we did advertise and when and
25 where, put the signs up to let the community
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1 know that we were having meetings, public
2 meetings?
3 MR. HUXFORD: Thank you.
4 Through the Chair, yes, sir. Notices were
5 prepared and sent out on May 24th and on the
6 350 list, the neighborhood association was
7 included, and also we published in the Daily
8 Record on May 26th, 2011.
9 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Which -- okay.
10 MR. HUXFORD: And the signs were posted
11 properly.
12 MR. R. BROWN: Thank you.
13 Ms. Miller, did you not see those signs
14 being advertised to conduct the meeting?
15 MS. MILLER: We received written notice --
16 MR. R. BROWN: You did receive written
17 notice?
18 MS. MILLER: -- through the mail service
19 on June the 2nd. We received the packet on
20 June the 2nd.
21 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Well, I will -- let
22 me say this, and then ask my last question.
23 Understanding technology is the wave of
24 the future, I would tell you that the option of
25 setting it at the gym -- right in front of the
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1 gym is probably not the best-suited area. One,
2 it's already close to the street, you know, so
3 nothing can really go on that end. And there's
4 not a lot of activity in terms of student
5 activities.
6 So bringing it back to the campus, you've
7 mentioned the brick walls, and that just
8 identifies the school. What they're trying to
9 do is notify folk about the activities. So in
10 terms -- understanding that, where would your
11 recommendation be?
12 Now, I would be the first to tell you that
13 behind the bus shelter is probably not the most
14 visible place. I don't feel that it will bring
15 harm to anyone because you're talking about a
16 college campus activity -- college campus with
17 security, so I don't think that's the issue.
18 So what's the real issue here?
19 MS. MILLER: Well, there are two or three
20 different issues.
21 Technology is an issue, and I thought I
22 had adequately explained that the character of
23 the neighborhood -- the architectural character
24 does not lend itself to this type of sign. It
25 does not fit in. And I spoke with
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1 Mr. Dandelake about this, as to whether or not
2 it would devalue the status and character of
3 the campus itself.
4 But there was some confusion about the
5 size of the sign. We were led to believe from
6 the first site -- map site --
7 MR. R. BROWN: Let me, if I could, just
8 interrupt you.
9 Is it the --
10 MS. MILLER: You didn't let me finish --
11 MR. R. BROWN: -- location or the size?
12 I know I didn't. That way we -- I won't
13 hold up the Committee, because really it's just
14 one question. Is it the location or is it the
15 size of the sign that you're concerned with?
16 MS. MILLER: Well, we don't have
17 clarification. As I was trying to ask for some
18 clarification, we've gotten three different
19 explanations as to the size of the sign. We
20 were led to believe that the sign was seven
21 feet. Last, we were led to believe that the
22 sign would be 24 inches in width, but just two
23 feet from the ground.
24 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. So then --
25 MS. MILLER: So we need confirmation on
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1 the size of the sign --
2 MR. R. BROWN: So it's not the location is
3 what I'm trying to understand.
4 MS. MILLER: Yes. It's basically the
5 location because we understood --
6 MR. R. BROWN: Okay.
7 MS. MILLER: -- the -- may I try to make
8 my point?
9 MR. R. BROWN: No, no. That's good. I
10 just --
11 MS. MILLER: We're trying to clarify and
12 point out that that area is already inundated
13 with signage.
14 The new bus bench is a modern-type bus
15 bench, decorative with lighted signage. It
16 lights up at night, and it adds signage to that
17 block, along with other blocks that have
18 signage on it.
19 There's no signage in front of the
20 gymnasium, and it appears that there is space
21 that the sign could be -- if the events are
22 being advertised -- and Mr. Dandelake just
23 testified here, this moment, that the events
24 that they are advertising will take place at
25 the gymnasium.
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1 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. Let me correct you
2 there. I'm very familiar with the campus,
3 and --
4 MS. MILLER: So am I.
5 MR. R. BROWN: Okay. And I can tell you
6 that the majority of the activities do not take
7 place in the gymnasium.
8 Now, I understand that he did mention that
9 they have several places on campus that
10 activities take place.
11 And what I was really just trying to
12 understand -- and you answered the question,
13 it's really all of the above.
14 I just needed some clarification as to --
15 it was the size of the sign or the location,
16 and that's -- and you answered that question,
17 so I appreciate it.
18 MS. MILLER: Well, may I ask you a
19 question?
20 The waiver says that the application was
21 because there were already existing signage.
22 There are two signs existing in that block; one
23 on one side of the street and one on the other
24 side of the street, plus the new signage for
25 the bus shelter.
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1 MR. R. BROWN: Right. I'm --
2 MS. MILLER: Plus, this new sign, that
3 will be a total of four signs within one
4 block --
5 MR. R. BROWN: Right. I'm very
6 familiar --
7 MS. MILLER: And two of them will be lit
8 up, and there's no -- there was no community
9 meeting held, there was no communication from
10 Mr. Dandelake or the administration with the
11 community. And we have had to really, for lack
12 of a better word, scratch and claw to get
13 included into what goes on in our community,
14 and to be adequately and timely informed about
15 what is happening, why it's happening, and to
16 have some input into the recommendation. And
17 we --
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, ma'am.
19 MS. MILLER: -- feel that it has some very
20 important impacts on our community as well as
21 the value of the community -- of the college
22 itself.
23 MR. R. BROWN: I understand, Ms. Miller.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
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1 I have other people who would like to --
2 other Committee members who would like to ask
3 you some questions.
4 Mr. Bishop, followed by Mr. Redman.
5 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 After hearing the discussion -- and I
7 think I may have a better handle on one thing
8 here. You had mentioned that you thought that
9 the location of the sign behind the bus shelter
10 was a hazard of some -- to some degree. I was
11 wondering if you could elaborate on
12 specifically why you think that.
13 MS. MILLER: Based on the fact -- that's
14 why I was asking, could clarification be
15 confirmed for us as to the sign, the width, the
16 height of the sign, because on the original map
17 site, we -- it showed that the sign would be
18 low --
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's see --
20 MR. BISHOP: The application --
21 MS. MILLER: -- would be lower than --
22 MR. BISHOP: The application shows a sign
23 that's seven and a half feet high. The sign
24 portion, per se, is four feet high by eight
25 feet wide, and the bottom of the sign portion
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1 is about three and a half feet off the ground.
2 So the whole height of this thing is about the
3 same height as the bus shelter, roughly.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The height of the sign is
5 seven feet, six inches. That's seven and a
6 half feet. The width of the sign is eight
7 feet, but the actual electronic message portion
8 is kind of on the lower section of the top
9 section. It's from three and a half feet off
10 the ground to -- that's, what, 19 inches or
11 something, so another 19 inches above that. So
12 about five feet. So the electronic message
13 sign goes from three and a half feet to five
14 feet, eight feet wide.
15 Is that correct, Planning staff?
16 MR. KELLY: That's correct.
17 The sign is seven and a half feet tall.
18 It is eight feet wide by four. It's a
19 32-square-foot sign area on a pedestal that is
20 about three and a half feet tall.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Mr. Bishop, please continue.
23 MR. BISHOP: That's all the questions I
24 have right now.
25 Thanks.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
2 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3 If the concern is the danger created by
4 the bus shelter being in front of the sign,
5 possibly we could move the bus shelter. Maybe
6 the college would be interested in paying to
7 have this bus shelter moved down. It looks
8 like it's just attached to -- and bolted to the
9 concrete. It shouldn't be a big problem moving
10 the bus shelter to a different location.
11 So would that keep you happy?
12 MS. MILLER: Well, it's not a matter of
13 being happy. I'm going to have my joy
14 regardless.
15 But anyway, I thought about that as an
16 alternative, that the bus shelter could be
17 moved because it has a lighted sign. You're
18 going to have a seven-, eight-foot sign behind
19 another sign that's on the bus bench that's
20 also lighted, which would add to the disarray
21 that's going to be placed on the park area of
22 the common ground of the campus. But if the
23 administration is not concerned about the
24 appearance of the college or maintaining the
25 valuable character of the architectural design,
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1 then they feel that the community should not be
2 concerned either, but we are concerned because
3 we value the college, we value its heritage, we
4 value its historical as well as architectural
5 character.
6 But I don't know what they were thinking
7 when they keep saying that this is the best
8 place for it when there is no signage on the
9 gymnasium. It's -- you know, and the gymnasium
10 is accessible to the students and the public.
11 So we just ask them to consider some type
12 of alternative --
13 MR. REDMAN: Okay. So --
14 MS. MILLER: -- that will be agreeable to
15 the community and the college.
16 MR. REDMAN: So moving the bus shelter
17 would not make a big difference to you --
18 MS. MILLER: I believe it would make a big
19 difference if the --
20 MR. REDMAN: Okay.
21 MS. MILLER: -- if the bus shelter were
22 moved, but you would still have the Centennial
23 Building impacted by a digital, electronic
24 sign.
25 MR. REDMAN: Yeah, but this building looks
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1 pretty modern here that I'm looking at in this
2 picture. It's a --
3 MS. MILLER: The Centennial Building is
4 historic, and it has a historic designation, as
5 well as other buildings on the campus; the
6 administration building across the street,
7 another structure down the street, and the
8 library, and then you have the Student Union
9 Building, which, as Mr. Crescimbeni has already
10 indicated, was built, I think, in the '70s --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Early '70s.
12 MS. MILLER: -- but the gymnasium is the
13 newest building. And I've tried to get some
14 input or explanation from Mr. Dandelake or
15 anybody else who could give it to us as to why
16 the college had not put any signage on the new
17 building, and would this be an opportunity to
18 put signage in front of that building
19 identifying it and also making their
20 announcements to the students and the
21 community.
22 MR. REDMAN: Okay. We got that.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Redman.
25 Any other questions for Ms. Miller or
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1 Mr. Dandelake?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Anyone else
4 care to address the Committee on this subject?
5 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
7 then the public hearing is closed.
8 Mr. Reingold, I see a note on here about a
9 Planning Department amendment.
10 MR. REINGOLD: Yes. To the Chair,
11 essentially whichever way the Committee decides
12 to go tonight, that -- we just recommend that
13 the amendment includes striking the reference
14 to a waiver to increase the number of signs
15 from one sign to two signs. The Planning
16 Department's position is that they are allowed
17 to have both signs. So the only issue before
18 you tonight is just the distance between the
19 signs.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
21 MR. REINGOLD: So if you move to approve
22 or move to deny, that you also move an
23 amendment that eliminates the reference for the
24 increase of signs.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
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1 We are back in committee.
2 MR. JOOST: Move to approve.
3 MR. REDMAN: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilman Joost offers an
5 amendment to grant the waiver with the deletion
6 of the reference to the second sign.
7 That was seconded by Councilman Redman.
8 All right. Discussion on the motion?
9 Mr. Bishop.
10 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 I intend to vote no on that amendment
12 because I -- while I don't know that I
13 necessarily understand the safety issue, I do
14 understand the sign proliferation issue, and I
15 understand the issue with Centennial Hall and
16 the historic nature of that structure.
17 There is an existing sign that's not
18 illuminated and it's not lit. They want to put
19 one that is illuminated and lit, in and of
20 itself is not necessarily a problem, but the
21 proliferation issue of illuminated message
22 signs doesn't sound like a good idea to grant
23 waivers for these sorts of things. If they can
24 do it by right, then do it by right and follow
25 the rules, but I don't think this warrants a
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1 waiver.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
4 Mr. Dick Brown, followed by Reggie Brown.
5 MR. D. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 I just wanted to point out that college
7 President Glover has taken on the task of
8 trying to do a great job with the college, and
9 they have had an opportunity with a grant or a
10 donation of a sign that they see some very
11 effective uses for, communicating with the
12 community and communicating with the students,
13 and I would hate for Mr. Dandelake to go back
14 and report to the president that we were not
15 going to cooperate with their improvement for
16 the college.
17 I certainly intend to support this. It's
18 a -- they spelled out very clearly what it
19 means to them to be able to tell the community
20 about activities and -- as well as the
21 students -- and have studied the location.
22 I urge you to support it. I mean, we need
23 to support Edward Waters. We need to support
24 Sheriff Glover. And those concerns were very
25 lightweight in terms of what we're dealing with
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1 in the improvements to the college.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Brown.
4 It's President Sheriff Glover.
5 Reggie Brown.
6 MR. R. BROWN: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I will
7 also support the waiver, but let me give you, I
8 guess, some backdrop.
9 I believe what happened is that Edward
10 Waters started out with great intentions with
11 the design, right, and somewhere along the way,
12 JTA decided that they would do a separate
13 design without coordinating with the college
14 and their future plans. So now you have a bus
15 shelter that's going to be right in front of
16 the sign.
17 So what I would like to do is just take
18 this opportunity and, of course, support the
19 waiver, but, I mean, it's just a matter of
20 communicating, you know. It's a phone call to
21 JTA, tell Edward Waters College we're making a
22 recommendation to move the bus shelter a few
23 feet down, then -- because right now, from my
24 vantage point, it doesn't do anyone any good to
25 have a sign up there that no one can see
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1 because it's behind the bus shelter.
2 So that's going to be my recommendation.
3 I would support the waiver, but I also would
4 take it a step further, to speak with JTA as
5 well as President Glover -- President Sheriff
6 Glover.
7 And, Mr. Dandelake, if you could take this
8 information back so we can make contact with
9 JTA, it's just a few screws -- I think it's
10 four, and they could move that bus shelter 20
11 feet out of the way, and it would not be an
12 inconvenience to the students or the residents
13 for catching the bus.
14 And I think it's a quick solution, but
15 they do need advertisements on that campus and
16 people need to know what's going on. They have
17 student enrollment, and the only way you find
18 out is you walk on inside of it, and I can tell
19 you that that's not a good thing. If you're
20 waiting on folks to walk inside a college
21 campus to find out when -- their enrollment
22 date, it does not happen.
23 So, just for that alone, I support the
24 waiver and I believe we can work out our
25 differences.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Brown.
3 Mr. Dandelake, the -- there's like a brick
4 fence -- a brick column with an iron fence all
5 along there. I mean, can the bus shelter be
6 relocated, do you think?
7 (Mr. Dandelake approaches the podium.)
8 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir. George
9 Dandelake, Edward Waters College.
10 I was on the -- worked with JTA on that
11 project of the Kings Road improvements, and I
12 can call them and see --- there was one down by
13 the senior housing project that they moved, and
14 I'm sure this would not probably --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there one on the other
16 side of Kings Road from this shelter?
17 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: They're like --
19 MR. DANDELAKE: I'm trying to remember the
20 number of them, but I could definitely -- the
21 lighting is funny. It's solar-generated, so
22 they've got solar panels on them and that's
23 what is -- does the -- or electric, I guess you
24 call it.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
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1 Mr. Joost, on the motion to amend the bill
2 to grant the waiver.
3 MR. JOOST: Yes, sir.
4 Why don't we just make it a condition,
5 they move the bus shelter 20 feet.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that an amendment to the
7 amendment?
8 MR. JOOST: Yes, sir.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Would you view that as a
10 friendly amendment, Mr. Brown?
11 MR. R. BROWN: I view it as a friendly
12 amendment.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We'll just roll
14 it all into one.
15 Mr. Reingold.
16 MR. JOOST: I knew the legal department
17 would have a problem.
18 MR. REINGOLD: Oh, it's not that I have a
19 problem, Councilmember Joost. It's just I
20 would like to ask a question or two about that
21 amendment.
22 As I heard the condition, it was
23 essentially we would approve the waiver subject
24 to moving that -- the JTA bus shelter would be
25 moved.
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1 I guess the question is -- and I'm just
2 ignorant on these items with JTA's bus shelter
3 is, who built the bus shelter, what's the
4 agreement for it to be there, what are JTA's
5 regulations?
6 You've essentially put a condition on this
7 waiver that affects another agency, and I was
8 just wondering if that's the direction the
9 Committee wanted to go, but we might want to
10 just flesh that idea out a little bit.
11 MR. JOOST: I appreciate it.
12 I think that's for Edward Waters and the
13 JTA to work out. I mean, if they moved one
14 before, they can move another one. And I would
15 say to move the bus shelter a minimum of
16 20 feet or more, you know, would be the
17 condition. That seems to be the consensus.
18 And, quite frankly, after hearing the
19 rest -- you know, the rest of the story or
20 points made -- I mean, if you've got a bus
21 shelter in front of the sign, what's the point
22 of having the sign anyway? So they need to
23 move it and -- you know, to have an effective
24 sign. If you've got a sign where the bus
25 shelter is blocking it, I mean, nobody can read
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1 it. So, you know, let's move the bus shelter.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Joost.
3 Mr. Brown, do you still view Mr. Joost's
4 amendment as a friendly amendment?
5 MR. R. BROWN: That's a friendly
6 amendment.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
8 Councilmember Dick Brown, followed by
9 Mr. Bishop.
10 MR. D. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 Mr. Dandelake, I -- the bus shelter issue
12 about it blocking the sign, I have a mental
13 picture of the sign being perpendicular to the
14 road, and the students who are around the
15 Student Union will, of course, gather their
16 information from seeing it, but that it's
17 visible from the road and it's behind the bus
18 shelter but not blocked by the bus shelter to
19 traffic and the community.
20 Am I getting the wrong picture?
21 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, you're right.
22 I don't know whether you can -- I could
23 pass this picture around, but I think the
24 picture is (inaudible).
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dandelake, you need to
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1 be at the microphone, first of all.
2 And, secondly, is the sign going to be
3 perpendicular to the road or parallel to the
4 road? I thought you were aiming it at Kings
5 Road.
6 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir. It's on -- be
7 sure I understand the definition of --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, perpendicular is like
9 a right angle. Parallel --
10 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
11 Here's the bus shelter here (indicating),
12 and it's in your -- I think this picture's in
13 your packet.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I would call that bus
15 shelter parallel to the road.
16 MR. DANDELAKE: The sign location is right
17 here (indicating) facing Kings Roads on either
18 way. So if you're coming this way going east,
19 you can see the sign this way. If you're going
20 west, you can see the sign --
21 THE CHAIRMAN: That's perpendicular.
22 MR. D. BROWN: The sign itself is
23 perpendicular.
24 MR. DANDELAKE: The bus shelter is really
25 not blocking the sign itself.
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1 MR. D. BROWN: I would -- I would just
2 urge the Committee to allow us to pass the bill
3 as requested and let the college deal with
4 that.
5 Mr. Dandelake, would that not be
6 appropriate?
7 It doesn't sound like it fits a sign
8 waiver for a distance, but to order the JTA,
9 you know, as a side effect -- and you folks
10 probably don't want to incur that expense.
11 MR. DANDELAKE: I mean, I'm sure I could
12 work with JTA if there's any safety -- I know
13 the one down at the senior citizen [sic] was a
14 safety problem they had, and it was moved, as I
15 understand from JTA. And if this is any way
16 safety, they -- I'm sure they could move it.
17 MR. D. BROWN: Yes, sir.
18 Thank you.
19 MR. DANDELAKE: But we would definitely
20 make that request of where -- you know, if we
21 needed to move it way on down to the corner --
22 one of the corners, I mean, we could do that.
23 MR. JOOST: (Inaudible.)
24 MR. DANDELAKE: Yes, sir.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brown, are you
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1 finished?
2 MR. D. BROWN: Yes.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bishop.
5 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 Through the Chair, I think, to
7 Mr. Reingold, if the condition passes in the
8 amendment that the bus shelter needs to be
9 moved, if JTA for some reason says, "We're not
10 moving it," does that then, in effect, nullify
11 the sign waiver?
12 MR. REINGOLD: (Nods head.)
13 MR. BISHOP: Okay. Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Any further
15 discussion on the -- I forgot who made the
16 amendment -- on the amendment -- on the Joost
17 amendment?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. No further
20 discussion.
21 All those in favor, say yes.
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
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1 adopted the amendment to grant the waiver
2 subject to the condition that the bus shelter
3 be relocated by at least 20 feet.
4 MR. D. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, I need to
5 change my vote. I didn't realize the waiver
6 was still in there. Would you allow me to
7 change it?
8 (Inaudible.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brown, would you go on
10 the record with that?
11 MR. D. BROWN: If you don't mind, I didn't
12 understand that that was still ordering the
13 move of the -- it seems inappropriate and I'd
14 like to be recorded as against the waiver --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We can --
16 MR. D. BROWN: -- or the amendment.
17 MR. HOLT: Move to reconsider.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Move to reconsider
19 by Councilman Holt.
20 Is there a second?
21 MR. BISHOP: Second.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Second by Mr. Bishop.
23 All those in favor of reconsidering, say
24 yes.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
4 moved to reconsider.
5 So on the Joost amendment -- okay, the
6 Joost amendment grants the sign waiver but
7 requires that the bus shelter be relocated by a
8 distance of at least 20 feet from its present
9 location.
10 MR. D. BROWN: (Inaudible.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Does everybody
12 understand the motion?
13 All right. Any discussion?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All those in favor, say
16 yes.
17 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
19 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS: No.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Show of hands, please.
21 All those in favor, say yes. Raise your
22 hand.
23 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
24 (Indicating.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
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1 UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
2 (Indicating.)
3 MR. JOOST: Where are you at?
4 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll support the motion.
5 All right. On the bill as amended, any
6 further discussion?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
9 MR. HOLT: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
11 amended by Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Holt.
12 Any further discussion?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, open the ballot,
15 please.
16 Vote.
17 (Committee ballot opened.)
18 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes nay.)
19 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. BISHOP: (Votes nay.)
21 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
25 (Committee ballot closed.)
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1 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yea, two nay.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
3 approved item 7, 2011-317, as amended.
4 Thank you, Mr. Dandelake.
5 Thank you, Ms. Miller.
6 MR. DANDELAKE: Thank you.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, did you have
8 a comment?
9 MR. REINGOLD: No, sir. I'm sorry.
10 Mr. Kelly dragged me aside for an issue.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
12 MR. REINGOLD: I assume the bill was
13 amended with --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: It was approved.
15 MR. REINGOLD: It was approved with the
16 20-foot movement and -- that clarifies the
17 issue.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: That's correct.
19 All right. Item 8, 2011-340, is deferred,
20 as is item 9, 2011-341, and item 10, 2011-342.
21 Turning to the top of page 5, item 11,
22 2011-343, is deferred.
23 Item 12, 2011-344.
24 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
25 MR. HOLT: Second.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, did you need
2 to give a report on this?
3 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, the amendment
4 simply is to change the map exhibit and to make
5 a reference to 7327 Smyrna Street.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a motion on
7 the amendment by Mr. Joost, second by -- I
8 think it was Mr. Bishop or Mr. Holt --
9 Mr. Holt.
10 Discussion on the amendment?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, all those in favor,
13 say yes.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
18 adopted the amendment.
19 MR. JOOST: Motion to rerefer.
20 MR. BISHOP: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion to rerefer by
22 Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Bishop.
23 Discussion?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, please open the
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1 ballot.
2 Vote.
3 (Committee ballot opened.)
4 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nay.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
14 amended 2011-344 and that bill is rereferred.
15 Item 13, 2011-345.
16 Mr. Reingold.
17 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, the amendment
18 is to make a reference to 7327 Smyrna Street in
19 the ordinance.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
21 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
22 MR. BISHOP: Second.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment by
24 Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Bishop.
25 Any discussion?
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, all those in favor,
3 say yes.
4 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
8 approved the amendment.
9 MR. BISHOP: Move the bill as amended.
10 MR. JOOST: Second.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
12 amended by Mr. Bishop to rerefer to LUZ, second
13 by Mr. Joost.
14 Discussion?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, open the ballot,
17 please.
18 Vote.
19 (Committee ballot opened.)
20 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
23 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
24 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
25 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
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1 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
2 (Committee ballot closed.)
3 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nay.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
5 amended item 18 -- sorry, item 13, 2011-345,
6 and that bill is rereferred.
7 Item 14, at the bottom of page 5,
8 2011-346, is deferred.
9 Turning to page 6, at the top, item 15,
10 2011-347, is deferred.
11 Item 16, 2011-353.
12 Mr. Smith.
13 MR. SMITH: Yes.
14 Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee,
15 Ordinance 2011-353 is an application for a
16 second amendment to a development agreement for
17 the purpose of extending the reservation of
18 traffic circulation capacity for an additional
19 three years.
20 This project is located on Salisbury Road,
21 between Belfort Road and the terminus of
22 Salisbury Road, and consists of approximately
23 25.48 acres. The proposed remaining
24 development rights in this development
25 agreement is about three -- excuse me -- about
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1 159,000 enclosed square feet of warehouse uses.
2 Staff has reviewed the application for
3 compliance with Chapter 65, Ordinance Code, and
4 does have a recommendation to approve.
5 There are two proposed planning
6 amendments. I don't know if Mr. Reingold wants
7 to go over these for the ordinance.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
9 Any questions for Mr. Smith?
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Reingold.
12 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to the
13 entire committee, there's -- the proposed
14 amendment would be to revise the agreement to
15 incorporate references to the attached exhibits
16 and to eliminate references to submitting the
17 agreement to the Department of Community
18 Affairs and also to tying the effective date to
19 their review.
20 There were some recent legislative changes
21 that came out of Tallahassee that no longer
22 require our development agreements to go to DCA
23 for their review.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Reingold.
25 We have a public hearing scheduled on this
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1 bill tonight.
2 The public hearing is open.
3 I have one speaker's card marked
4 "questions only."
5 Paige Johnston, do you want to come up and
6 say anything?
7 MS. JOHNSTON: (Inaudible.)
8 MR. JOOST: You don't have to.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: I have a question for you.
10 Is 7251 the correct address for you?
11 That's a TEU joke, I'm sorry.
12 Questions from the Committee?
13 Actually, Councilman Redman has a question
14 for you, Ms. Johnston.
15 (Ms. Johnston approaches the podium.)
16 MS. JOHNSTON: Good evening.
17 Paige Johnston, 1301 Riverplace Boulevard,
18 on behalf of the applicant.
19 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 This -- is this the old dog park?
21 MS. JOHNSTON: It's near the dog park.
22 You can see it off of 95, adjacent to the dog
23 park, yes.
24 MR. REDMAN: Is it farther down Salisbury,
25 farther south?
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1 MS. JOHNSTON: I'm sorry?
2 MR. REDMAN: Is it farther south on
3 Salisbury from the dog park or -- I know
4 there's a business --
5 MS. JOHNSTON: I believe it's north,
6 actually --
7 MR. REDMAN: It's north, okay.
8 MS. JOHNSTON: I may be confused because
9 I'm used to seeing it off of 95 --
10 MR. REDMAN: Okay.
11 MS. JOHNSTON: -- when I drive by the
12 Liberty property --
13 MR. REDMAN: Yeah, it's a dog park.
14 You've got Allstate Electric --
15 MS. JOHNSTON: Uh-huh.
16 MR. REDMAN: And is it that direction?
17 MS. JOHNSTON: I think it's north of the
18 dog park, but I might be mistaken.
19 MR. REDMAN: Okay.
20 MS. JOHNSTON: There's currently two
21 buildings on the property, and there were four
22 buildings proposed with the original
23 development. And because of the economic
24 conditions, we've just been not able to proceed
25 with the other two buildings.
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1 MR. REDMAN: Okay. Okay. I know where it
2 is.
3 Thank you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Redman.
5 Any other questions from the Committee?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
8 Ms. Johnston.
9 Anyone else care to address the Committee?
10 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no one, the public
12 hearing is closed.
13 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
14 MR. R. BROWN: Second.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment by
16 Mr. Joost, second by Reggie Brown.
17 Discussion on the amendment?
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: And, Mr. Joost, I'm
20 assuming you're moving the amendments that were
21 referenced earlier?
22 MR. JOOST: Yes, sir.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
24 Okay. If there's no discussion, all those
25 in favor, say yes.
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
5 adopted the amendment.
6 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
7 MR. HOLT: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
9 amended by Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Holt.
10 Discussion?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: If there's no discussion,
13 please open the ballot.
14 Vote.
15 (Committee ballot opened.)
16 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
22 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
23 (Committee ballot closed.)
24 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yeas, zero nay.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
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1 approved item 16, 2011-353, as amended.
2 Item 17, 2011-354.
3 Mr. Smith.
4 MR. SMITH: Yes.
5 Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee,
6 Ordinance 2011-354 is an application for a
7 development agreement for a reservation of
8 traffic circulation capacity.
9 The property consists of approximately
10 4.1 acres and is located on Atlantic Boulevard,
11 between Hendricks Avenue and Arcadia Place.
12 This proposed development includes
13 approximately 160 condominium units and 57,000
14 enclosed square feet of general commercial
15 uses. The duration of the agreement is for
16 ten years.
17 Staff has reviewed the application for
18 compliance and does have a recommendation to
19 approve subject to the one amendment noted on
20 the ordinance, which is to eliminate any
21 references to submitting the agreement to the
22 Department of Community Affairs and tying the
23 effective date to their review.
24 Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
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1 Any questions from the Committee?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing none, we
4 have a public hearing that's scheduled this
5 evening.
6 The public hearing is open.
7 I have one speaker's card, Staci
8 Rewis.
9 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
11 Staci Rewis, 245 Riverside Avenue,
12 Suite 400, Jacksonville, 32202.
13 You have before you a development
14 agreement for the East San Marco project, which
15 is located at the intersection of Hendricks and
16 Atlantic Boulevard.
17 The development agreement encompasses all
18 of the project except for what is currently the
19 Wachovia/Wells Fargo piece of property.
20 I'm available for any questions, as is
21 Tom Spence (phonetic) and Chris Kuhn (phonetic)
22 with San Marco, LLC.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Rewis.
25 Any questions from the Committee?
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Would anyone
3 else care to address the Committee?
4 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no one, the public
6 hearing is closed.
7 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
8 MR. REDMAN: Second.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment by
10 Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Redman.
11 Any discussion?
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: That is the amendment
14 listed on the agenda.
15 If there's no discussion, all those in
16 favor, say yes.
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
21 approved the amendment.
22 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
23 MR. HOLT: Second.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
25 amended by Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Holt.
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1 Any discussion?
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, please open the
4 ballot.
5 Vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
11 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
12 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
13 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
14 (Committee ballot closed.)
15 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yea, zero nay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. By our action,
17 you've approved item 17, 2011-354, as amended.
18 Item 18, 2011-355.
19 Mr. Smith.
20 MR. SMITH: Yes.
21 Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee,
22 Ordinance 2011-355 seeks a development
23 agreement for the purpose of reserving their
24 traffic circulation capacity.
25 This property consists of approximately
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1 nine acres and is located on Alta Drive,
2 between Port Industrial Drive and State Road
3 9A.
4 This proposed development includes
5 approximately 124,000 enclosed square feet of
6 industrial warehouse uses. The duration of the
7 agreement is five years.
8 I might add that the -- for all
9 development agreements, that the proposed use
10 must be consistent with the Comprehensive Plan,
11 and the applicable land use -- land development
12 regulations, and this one is also.
13 Staff has reviewed the application as part
14 of compliance with Chapter 65, Ordinance Code,
15 and has a recommendation to approve subject to
16 the two amendments noted on the agenda. One is
17 to eliminate any references to submitting the
18 agreement to the DCA, Department of Community
19 Affairs, and tying the effective date to their
20 review. And the second is to revise the
21 acreage from 9.3 to 9.0.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
23 Any questions for Mr. Smith?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have a
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1 public hearing scheduled in this matter this
2 evening.
3 The public hearing is open.
4 I have three speakers' cards, and we'll
5 start with the proponents, and that is Forrest
6 Gibson.
7 Mr. Gibson, are you here?
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Questions only.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Questions only. Okay.
10 Any questions from the Committee?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have two
13 opponents.
14 The first is Mr. Rose. Is that Louis
15 Rose?
16 Okay. Followed by Don Wittner [sic].
17 Are you Mr. Wittner?
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Wittmer.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Wittmer, okay. Why don't
20 you make your way up to the front row, sir, and
21 we'll have you come up next.
22 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rose, I just need your
24 name and address for the record.
25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
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1 My name is Louis Rose, 2522 River Enclave
2 Lane, 32226.
3 Mr. Chairman, committee members, I'm the
4 secretary/treasurer of River Enclave Homeowners
5 Association, which is directly across
6 Alta Drive from this proposed site.
7 Mr. Gibson was very good about providing a
8 site plan. I hope you've all seen the site
9 plan.
10 We have a few concerns. And I would like
11 to point out that Merriane, your legislative
12 assistant, last week was kind enough to send
13 around an e-mail that I prepared and sent her
14 to City Council members, or to the members of
15 this group.
16 One of the concerns is we don't see a
17 buffer between the site that's being developed
18 and Alta Drive, so we're a little concerned
19 whether that would be trees or shrubs or a berm
20 or something. You know, we just didn't see it.
21 A second concern is that the driveway is
22 directly opposite the entrance to our
23 subdivision. I'm not sure what the traffic
24 ramifications are, but we were hoping maybe
25 that could be moved further south.
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1 A third condition is that -- Terrapin
2 Creek is adjacent to the north side of the
3 property. The site plan calls for a retention
4 pond. And we just, frankly, don't know enough
5 about what that will do to the creek or if the
6 pond would adequately protect the creek. Maybe
7 this is just something that we're raising
8 without really adequate acknowledge, but we
9 think it's important.
10 The fourth is that the amendment -- which
11 we noticed tonight asks for the elimination of
12 any role by the Department of Community
13 Affairs. I'm kind of new to understanding this
14 process, so I really don't understand why
15 there's a critical timeline that would justify
16 an amendment that would eliminate that part of
17 the process. We, of course, would object to
18 that and we would want to see whatever input or
19 any substance that the Department of Community
20 Affairs might provide.
21 So we oppose the amendment.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rose, the elimination
24 of the DCA review is the result of legislative
25 action by the Florida legislature this year.
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1 The 2011 session of the Florida legislature
2 made some pretty comprehensive changes to what
3 the responsibilities -- the roles and
4 responsibilities of the DCA, and so this no
5 longer is required to go there. So that's why
6 that amendment as opposed to --
7 MR. ROSE: Well, that's why probably I'm
8 confused because if that's the case, why would
9 it require an amendment to eliminate it?
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we're dealing with
11 our zoning code, and our zoning code is
12 sometimes subject to what's prescribed by the
13 State.
14 Mr. Reingold, do you want to weigh in and
15 provide a little bit more?
16 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, I'd be happy
17 to kind of assist on this issue.
18 Essentially, when the application for the
19 development agreement was submitted to the
20 City, it contained language that said that it
21 would not become effective until a certain
22 amount of time after DCA reviewed it.
23 Additionally, it said that we would send the
24 development agreement to the State.
25 Since that time, the legislation that came
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1 out of Tallahassee modified those conditions
2 and requirements in the state statute and
3 removed DCA's responsibility from reviewing
4 these.
5 So thus, we were actually amending the
6 development agreements that were submitted to
7 the City consistent with state statute after
8 the state law had been passed.
9 MR. ROSE: Okay. I don't really want to
10 be argumentative, and I understand what you
11 just said. And what you said -- really what we
12 want is the first three items to get some sort
13 of consideration. Mr. Gibson appears to be
14 very agreeable to saying, well, that's the site
15 plan, maybe that can be changed. With
16 reference to the amount of traffic, which we've
17 asked about, whether that opening to that
18 development being right across from our
19 driveway is something that could be moved, we
20 don't know. We're just looking for something.
21 I'm not sure it's a remedy, but something that
22 would address our concerns.
23 So the Community Affairs process looked
24 encouraging, but I understand that's not the
25 case, so --
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
2 Mr. Rose.
3 We have a question from Councilman Holt.
4 Mr. Holt.
5 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
6 It's not really a question for the
7 speaker, but clarification from Mr. Reingold
8 about some of his comments.
9 Mr. Reingold, could you explain to us
10 the -- what action we're taking here with this,
11 and does it in any way affect -- it seems to me
12 that this property is already zoned heavy
13 industrial and land use heavy industrial, and
14 that there's not really any decision that we're
15 making today that affects the property or any
16 potential site plan. We're just making a
17 decision today on the concurrency and their
18 reserving of concurrency credits.
19 Could you explain that to me?
20 MR. REINGOLD: Through the Chair to the
21 council member, I would be happy to explain
22 that, although I think you pretty much
23 explained it very well to the rest of the
24 Committee.
25 You're absolutely right. This is -- it's
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1 actually an issue about concurrency, about
2 reserving transportation concurrency in the
3 area. It has nothing to do with zoning or
4 wetlands permitting issues, and that's -- you
5 pretty much had it dead-on.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Holt.
7 Any other questions for the speaker,
8 Mr. Rose?
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
11 Mr. Rose.
12 MR. ROSE: Okay.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Don Wittmer.
14 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
16 My name is Don Wittmer. I live at 2519
17 River Enclave Lane, Jacksonville, 32226.
18 As Mr. Rose already indicated, this
19 project is going in directly across the street
20 from our subdivision. Our subdivision is an
21 18-lot subdivision, with nine of the lots
22 fronting Terrapin Creek. Terrapin Creek, as
23 Mr. Rose indicated, runs along the north side
24 of the subject property.
25 Obviously, we're concerned with the impact
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1 this development will have on Terrapin Creek.
2 Terrapin Creek is already stressed to the
3 amount of development that's gone on in this
4 area in the last couple years. And regardless
5 of the fact that there's a stormwater pond
6 here, you're going to have some erosion and
7 whatnot because of the development.
8 Mr. Rose also indicated that the entrance
9 to the project is directly across from the --
10 from our subdivision. We're hoping that -- and
11 maybe the owner's representative can talk to
12 this -- whether the entrance can be moved
13 either further north or south along Alta Drive
14 so it's not directly across from us.
15 Again, the point that Mr. Rose made about
16 the -- having a buffer would obviously be real
17 nice, too. My experience has been with
18 developments like this, they go in and
19 basically level the property of all vegetation
20 and put their warehouses up along with parking.
21 If you notice, the site plan has a
22 drainage pond in the back of the property.
23 Another consideration might be to move the
24 drainage pond, if possible, to the front of the
25 property. That would provide a little bit more
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1 of -- at least it would look better from the
2 road, let's put it that way.
3 I don't know the amount of truck traffic
4 we're going to have with this project. There's
5 a small bridge that goes across Terrapin Creek,
6 so I don't know the impact that it will have on
7 that, but it's something that needs to be
8 considered.
9 I guess I've touched on all the points
10 that I was concerned about, along with
11 Mr. Rose.
12 I thank you for your time.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Wittmer.
14 Any questions from the Committee?
15 Mr. Redman.
16 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 I just wanted to say that, you know, you
18 understand that the action we're taking here
19 today has nothing to do with the issues that
20 y'all have? And I would recommend that you get
21 with the gentleman back there, or your
22 neighborhood association, and maybe y'all can
23 work out something between the two of you, but
24 we have -- you know, this has nothing to do
25 with y'all's issues.
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1 MR. WITTMER: I gathered that when
2 Mr. Rose was up here, but being as he spoke to
3 some of these things, I thought it was my
4 opportunity to throw my two cents in, too, so
5 I've done that. But if it has -- we'll get --
6 we'll get with the representative.
7 Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
10 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, sir.
11 Anyone else care to address the Committee?
12 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
14 the public hearing is closed.
15 MR. JOOST: Move the amendment.
16 MR. HOLT: Second.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment by
18 Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Holt.
19 These are the amendments referenced
20 earlier, listed at the bottom of the page.
21 Any discussion?
22 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, all those in favor,
24 say yes.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
4 adopted the amendment.
5 MR. JOOST: Move the bill as amended.
6 MR. BISHOP: Second.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
8 amended by Mr. Joost, second by Mr. Bishop.
9 Discussion?
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, please open the
12 ballot.
13 Vote.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. D. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
19 MR. R. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
20 MR. JOOST: (Votes yea.)
21 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
22 (Committee ballot closed.)
23 MS. LAHMEUR: Seven yea, zero nay.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
25 approved item 18, 2011-355.
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1 Turning to the top of page 7, item 19,
2 2011-363, we have a public hearing scheduled
3 this evening.
4 The public hearing is open.
5 No speakers' cards.
6 Anyone care to address the Committee?
7 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no one, the public
9 hearing is continued until July 19th, and we
10 will take no further action on that bill.
11 Beginning with item 20, 2011-380, the
12 following bills are read second: Item 20,
13 2011-380; 21, 2011-381; 2011-382, and that
14 completes our rather brief agenda.
15 MR. JOOST: Point of order.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Before you -- before I
17 recognize your point of order, I just want to
18 thank the council president for allowing me the
19 opportunity to serve as the Chair of LUZ. It's
20 been a -- it's been an interesting year.
21 I want to thank the staff who supports
22 this committee.
23 Merriane, you've done a phenomenal job by
24 attending multiple agenda meetings each cycle,
25 keeping me up to speed on the report to give at
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1 the council agenda meetings, so thank you for
2 that.
3 Thank you, Steve.
4 And, of course, our support staff that
5 gets to introduce themselves each and every
6 week.
7 I also want to thank each member of the
8 Committee. We've never once had a quorum
9 issue, which is tremendous. We got close a
10 couple times, but we never got there, so thank
11 you very much. And that makes things run so
12 much smoother. And I think everyone on the
13 Committee has just done a remarkable job on
14 participating on the issues, making good
15 amendments, asking good questions.
16 So thank you for making my job as Chair
17 probably the easiest it could have possibly
18 been.
19 Mr. Joost.
20 MR. JOOST: Mr. Crescimbeni, good segue.
21 I wanted to commend you. You were a great
22 chairman this year. I've enjoyed working with
23 you. You kept us on task, organized, detailed,
24 and you've done a tremendous job.
25 And one story I want to share with the
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1 rest of the members. Because I always kind of
2 view you as one of the tough guys on the
3 Council, but last year, you know, as we all
4 know the old Ruth's Chris story -- and I can
5 talk about it now. I called everybody up and
6 apologized. You left me an incredible message
7 and basically just said we all make mistakes,
8 and I understand it, and, you know, basically
9 just don't do it again. And you showed an
10 incredibly compassionate side that I know is
11 there, and I've always appreciated that.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you're very welcome,
13 Mr. Joost. And I thank you. You went the
14 extra mile by making the phone call to begin
15 with, so that doesn't often happen. So you're
16 the one that deserves all the kudos on that
17 situation.
18 And, again, I will thank you for paroling
19 me from LUZ. I do appreciate that.
20 And I failed to mention that our new
21 chairman, our new incoming chairman -- the
22 Committee's going to change a little bit. Our
23 new incoming chairman is Mr. Reggie Brown, and
24 I have no doubt that Mr. Brown will do a fine
25 job. He's been a good asset to this committee
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1 this year.
2 Mr. Holt.
3 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4 I just wanted to also say thank you for
5 some of the new things that you brought to the
6 Committee.
7 You brought a new level of openness and
8 bringing forward all the information that
9 Mr. Reingold reads out to us each time so that
10 the folks out here that are watching this can
11 get a better understanding of what we're
12 dealing with.
13 Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Now if we would only
15 understand it.
16 Mr. Bishop.
17 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18 I want to join the John Crescimbeni Fan
19 Club here. I think you did an outstanding job
20 this year. It's been a pleasure being on LUZ.
21 And you just did an outstanding job and made
22 our job very easy, and I appreciate it.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
25 My wife has gone to dinner with my
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1 stepdaughter, so we can -- if y'all want to
2 continue, I've got till probably 9:00, so --
3 Mr. Reggie Brown.
4 MR. R. BROWN: Yeah, ditto.
5 I'd like to thank you for the leadership
6 that you've provided. And I look forward in
7 making an attempt to, you know, fill those
8 shoes that you laid down. You set some real
9 high standards and I just look forward --
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Your feet are bigger than
11 mine, Mr. Brown.
12 MR. R. BROWN: All right, but thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I appreciate
14 that.
15 Mr. Redman.
16 MR. REDMAN: Thank you.
17 I just wanted to say that I appreciate
18 your thoroughness and I think you did a great
19 job.
20 Thank you, sir.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Redman.
22 And Dick Brown.
23 I can't -- I'm afraid to even go here.
24 Mr. Brown.
25 MR. D. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, I do not want
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1 to keep you from dinner, but I do want to say
2 you did a heck of a job.
3 And I was -- I stumbled in here to fill
4 Art Graham's -- the remainder of his tour of
5 duty, and I really enjoyed working with you
6 folks. But I did have a little heartburn
7 when -- I said, "What committees was he on?"
8 And one of them was LUZ, but I -- I toughed it
9 out. But you guys -- you guys did a -- this is
10 just a tough committee, period.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Brown, no
12 disrespect, sir, but we used to have very short
13 meetings until the governor appointed you, and
14 I'm sure it's just pure coincidence. I don't
15 attribute it to anything else, but I did notice
16 that our meetings became much longer after you
17 joined us, but --
18 MR. D. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, you're
19 exactly right. The very first meeting went
20 till 10 o'clock. And then I'm walking out the
21 door saying, "God, you guys work hard," and
22 then you say, "Yeah, we've been" -- "we've had
23 one-hour meetings until you got here."
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I rest my case.
25 MR. D. BROWN: What a welcome that was.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: We've enjoyed having you,
2 sir.
3 All right. Anything else to come before
4 the Committee?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: We will meet again on the
7 19th of July.
8 And, with that, I again thank everybody,
9 and the final LUZ meeting of the 2010-11 cycle
10 is adjourned.
11 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
12 6:35 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA)
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4 COUNTY OF DUVAL )
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I, Diane M. Tropia, Court Reporter,
6 certify that I was authorized to and did
stenographically report the foregoing proceedings
7 and that the transcript is a true and complete
record of my stenographic notes.
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DATED this 26th day of June, 2011.
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Diane M. Tropia
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