CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
LAND USE AND ZONING
COMMITTEE
Proceedings held on Tuesday, March 1,
2011, commencing at 5:00 p.m., City Hall, Council
Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before
Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the
State of Florida at Large.
PRESENT:
JOHN CRESCIMBENI, Chair.
RAY HOLT, Vice Chair.
WILLIAM BISHOP, Committee Member.
DON REDMAN, Committee Member.
DICK BROWN, Committee Member.
ALSO PRESENT:
BILL KILLINGSWORTH, Director, Planning Dept.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
SEAN KELLY, Chief, Current Planning.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Zoning Administrator.
KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
SHARONDA DAVIS, Legislative Assistant.
- - -
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 March 1, 2011 5:00 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, everyone.
5 We're going to call the Tuesday,
6 March 1st, 2011, meeting of the Land Use and
7 Zoning Committee to order.
8 We will go around the dais and have
9 everybody introduce themselves.
10 Mr. Crofts, do you want to start off?
11 MR. CROFTS: Yes, sir. Good evening.
12 John Crofts, Planning and Development
13 Department.
14 MR. KELLY: Sean Kelly, Planning and
15 Development.
16 MR. HUXFORD: Folks Huxford, Planning and
17 Development.
18 MR. AVERY: Ken Avery, Planning and
19 Development.
20 MR. REINGOLD: Dylan Reingold a/k/a
21 Mr. Dylan, Office of General Counsel.
22 MR. BROWN: Dick Brown, City Council,
23 District 13.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm John Crescimbeni,
25 at-large, Group 2.
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1 MR. HOLT: Ray Holt, District 11.
2 MR. BISHOP: Bill Bishop, District 2.
3 MR. REDMAN: Don Redman, District 4.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I have a late
5 arrival notice from Councilman Joost, who will
6 join us in progress, and an early excusal from
7 Reggie Brown. I guess it was earlier than we
8 anticipated.
9 So, with that, Mr. Dylan -- Mr. Reingold,
10 would you like to read the LUZ preamble for us,
11 please.
12 MR. REINGOLD: To the Chair, I'd be
13 delighted.
14 Anyone who would like to address the
15 committee tonight must fill out a yellow
16 speaker's card in its entirety. The yellow
17 speakers' cards are located on the desk up
18 front, near the podium. Once completed, please
19 return the speaker's card to the basket on the
20 front desk.
21 Any person who lobbies the City for
22 compensation is considered a lobbyist and is
23 therefore required to register their lobbying
24 activity with the City Council secretary. If
25 you are a lobbyist and have not registered with
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1 the City Council secretary, you are not
2 permitted to address the committee.
3 Because a verbatim transcript of this
4 meeting will be prepared by a court reporter,
5 it is important that you speak clearly into the
6 microphone when you address the committee.
7 It's also important that only one person speak
8 at a time.
9 Any tangible materials submitted with a
10 speaker's presentation, such as documents,
11 photographs, plans, drawings, et cetera, shall
12 become a permanent part of the public record
13 and will be retained by the committee.
14 As a courtesy, please switch any cell
15 phones, pagers, or audible devices to a silent
16 mode.
17 Additionally, there shall be no public
18 displays of support or opposition, so please
19 refrain from applause or speaking out of turn,
20 although that doesn't look to be like a
21 significant problem with tonight's audience.
22 Items are generally addressed in the order
23 in which they are listed on the agenda. Copies
24 of the agenda are located on the desk up front,
25 near the podium.
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1 On occasion, items may be heard out of
2 order for the sake of efficiency or to
3 accommodate scheduling conflicts.
4 Unless there is a formal hearing on a
5 particular item, each member of the public is
6 limited to a single three-minute presentation.
7 Presentations should be focused, concise, and
8 address only the item pending before the
9 committee.
10 Prior to addressing the committee, please
11 state your name and address for the court
12 reporter.
13 Decisions on rezonings, including PUDs and
14 waivers of road frontage and sign waivers, are
15 all considered quasi-judicial in nature and
16 certain protocols will be followed for these
17 proceedings.
18 First, any council member must disclose on
19 the record any ex-parte communications they
20 have had with any members of the public prior
21 to the hearing on each applicable item. This
22 includes a brief statement of when the
23 conversation occurred, who the communication
24 was with, and what the subject matter of the
25 communication was about.
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1 Second, the normal format is to allow the
2 applicant or agent thereof to make their
3 presentation first, followed by members of the
4 public who wish to speak in support of the
5 item, then members of the public who are in
6 opposition will be allowed to speak.
7 After all the public comments have been
8 received, the applicant will have a brief
9 opportunity to wrap up or present a brief
10 rebuttal. The wrap-up or rebuttal shall be
11 limited to the issues brought up by the
12 speakers.
13 In some instances, the Chair may permit a
14 concise surrebuttal or response to the
15 applicant's rebuttal, which will be followed by
16 a brief final response by the applicant.
17 Finally, all quasi-judicial decisions must
18 be based on substantial competent evidence,
19 which means that the committee's decision must
20 be supported by fact-based testimony or expert
21 testimony and not generalized concerns or
22 opinions.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Reingold.
24 All right. Committee members, if you'll
25 turn to page 2 of the agenda. Item 1,
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1 2010-585, is deferred, as is item 2, 2010-670,
2 and item 3, 2010-856.
3 Turning to the top of page 3, this is an
4 item that we took a vote on at the last
5 meeting, but we didn't have enough votes one
6 way or the other to get it out of committee, so
7 I think we continued the public hearing.
8 Mr. Kelly, your report, please.
9 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
10 To the Chair and Committee members,
11 ordinance 2010-893 is a sign waiver request to
12 allow for the internal illumination of a sign
13 for a church. It's Highlands United
14 Presbyterian Church located on McCormick Road.
15 This is the Wonderwood Expressway, between
16 St. Johns Bluff and Fort Caroline Road.
17 The Department has reviewed this
18 request -- the internal illumination associated
19 with the sign also consists of an electronic
20 message board that is a component of the sign.
21 The Department has reviewed this
22 application for consistency with the criteria
23 for a sign waiver. We find it to be compatible
24 with the existing signage in the area. The
25 sign that's proposed to go up is replacing an
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1 existing sign that is nonconforming in terms of
2 setback and the proposed sign is actually
3 smaller in area than the existing sign.
4 The Department feels that approval of this
5 would -- would not detract from the intent of
6 the code as it relates to the existence of
7 nonconforming signs. Again, the waiver will
8 not negatively alter the aesthetic character of
9 the area surrounding the site nor interfere
10 with the rights of others.
11 There are two conditions for approval the
12 Department is recommending at this point.
13 Condition 1, "The electronic message board
14 shall only contain verbal messages that change
15 simultaneously for the entire portion of the
16 sign that changes."
17 And the second condition is, "The
18 electronic message board shall use only amber
19 lights."
20 Based on those two conditions and the
21 Department's review for consistency with the
22 criteria, the Department is recommending
23 approval.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kelly, what happened to
25 condition number 3 that you read into the
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1 record last time that was part of the
2 condition -- part of the Department's condition
3 for approval?
4 MR. KELLY: The hours of operation, as it
5 related to the sign, that was discussed, as you
6 know, on the record. The genesis of that
7 condition related back to an application that
8 was down in Mandarin, off of Loretto Road,
9 which was a different situation in terms of the
10 location of the sign, the context, and its
11 location on the site and proximity to adjacent
12 residential uses and the size of the sign.
13 We viewed this as not really being
14 warranted in this instance, the hours of
15 operation at this location. We felt that there
16 was no real rational nexus as a condition to
17 require that in this instance due to the lack
18 of immediate adjacent residential uses. There
19 are residential uses, but there's -- oriented
20 away. These are the backyards of two adjacent
21 subdivisions that would be very far from this
22 sign and we feel that there would be no
23 requirement, really, or no imposition to have
24 that requirement. We felt it was onerous.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All right, sir. Thank you
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1 for your report.
2 This is a quasi-judicial matter. Does
3 anyone have any ex-parte communication they
4 wish to disclose?
5 MR. BISHOP: (Indicating.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bishop.
7 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 This afternoon I spoke with the
9 applicant's agent, Chad Grimm, in cell phone
10 conference, and we discussed the proposed
11 conditions.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
13 Anyone else?
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. And, likewise,
16 I had a conversation yesterday with the
17 applicant's agent, Chad Grimm, just with regard
18 to -- I guess we had three conditions we were
19 talking about yesterday. So just for the
20 record, we discussed the conditions, and my
21 mind is open here to hear anything presented to
22 the committee.
23 All right. With that said, we have a
24 public hearing scheduled this evening. The
25 public hearing is open. I have a speaker's
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1 card from the applicant's agent, Chad Grimm.
2 Mr. Grimm.
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
5 Chad Grimm, 2771 Monument Road, Suite
6 29375.
7 With the revision of the conditions, I --
8 I guess I'll just -- I'll make myself available
9 for questions and discussion.
10 We agree to the two conditions that are
11 there, that exist. And if you do have further
12 questions with the third condition that has
13 disappeared or has been removed, I'm available
14 to answer any questions; otherwise -- unless
15 you have any other questions, I'm not --
16 (Simultaneous speaking.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Grimm.
18 MR. GRIMM: (Inaudible) through a
19 presentation.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bishop, you have a
21 question?
22 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 Mr. Grimm, in regards to our telephone
24 conversation this afternoon, were you
25 successful in finding out anything regarding
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1 the dimability of the changing message portion
2 of the sign,
3 MR. GRIMM: I was not able to get ahold of
4 the sign company and confirm the information.
5 The discussion was whether we could dim
6 the sign display at various times and the
7 discussion was whether we could dim it at
8 the -- in the evening.
9 After the -- after our discussion on the
10 phone, I do vaguely remember having a
11 discussion with the sign company about the
12 options, with -- with the controls, of being
13 able to have different levels, but I -- I
14 just -- I can't confirm that because it -- it's
15 been a while and I don't know for sure,
16 unfortunately.
17 MR. BISHOP: Okay. Thank you.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
19 Any other questions for the speaker?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Grimm, you apparently
22 can't live with condition number 3 that used to
23 be on the -- on the list but is no longer on
24 the list?
25 MR. GRIMM: Well, I mean, in -- in light
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1 of the Planning Department's position -- you
2 know my position in that I would -- I agree
3 with that.
4 I will say, just from being a little
5 conservative and since a couple of the members
6 are absent at this time, the vote -- and -- and
7 the risk of the vote may -- may not be in my
8 favor.
9 If -- our preference is -- in the
10 conversation with Mr. Bishop, Councilman --
11 -member Bishop, was the possibility of more of
12 a compromise, of maybe dimming the signage
13 between those hours to where it isn't so
14 bright, and that would be our preference, but I
15 will tell you, if push comes to shove for
16 approval so we can get the sign in the ground,
17 we would -- I mean, we'd acquiesce and agree to
18 condition 3 if it has to be.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: And condition 3 was, what,
20 9 p.m. --
21 MR. GRIM: Nine to six p.m.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Nine p.m. --
23 MR. GRIMM: Nine --
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Nine p.m. to six a.m. --
25 MR. GRIMM: Nine to six a.m., correct.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Nine p.m. to
2 six p.m. wouldn't give you much opportunity
3 to --
4 MR. GRIMM: No, sorry.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Is there any
6 way you could find out about the dimming before
7 Tuesday night, next Tuesday night?
8 MR. GRIMM: Yes.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bishop, would you be
10 willing to follow up on that prior to --
11 MR. BISHOP: Yes, absolutely.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
13 Mr. Grimm.
14 We have -- Mr. Dylan, do you have a
15 question for Mr. Grimm?
16 MR. REINGOLD: Just a comment to the
17 committee.
18 This item is a quasi-judicial item, and
19 I'm not aware if there's a public hearing at
20 City Council. Is there a potential -- I'm just
21 kind of hearing from the Chair and from
22 Councilmember Bishop if there's an issue as to
23 maybe modifying the conditions with a floor
24 amendment at City Council. I'm just trying to
25 explore that issue.
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: What happens, Mr. Reingold,
2 if we leave the public hearing -- if we
3 continue the public hearing until Tuesday? Can
4 we do that?
5 MR. REINGOLD: Unfortunately, we can't
6 really open the public hearing here to the
7 City Council meeting. We open it for the LUZ
8 meeting.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.
10 Mr. Bishop, do you want to weigh in on
11 that or --
12 MR. BISHOP: Well, I guess -- I mean, I do
13 have some comments. I don't know if this is
14 the appropriate time to do it or how we would
15 want to do something like this, whether we're
16 still in the public hearing or what, but --
17 THE CHAIRMAN: We are in the public
18 hearing, so --
19 MR. BISHOP: I mean, I don't have any more
20 questions for Mr. Grimm at this point.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
22 Mr. Grimm.
23 MR. GRIMM: Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Any other speakers care to
25 address the committee?
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing none,
3 then, the public hearing is closed.
4 Mr. Bishop.
5 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 In my conversation with Mr. Grimm, a
7 couple of things came to light. From their
8 opinion, they would like the lights to be on --
9 the message to be on all the time because,
10 obviously, they want to get their message out.
11 Regardless of what the -- appearance of
12 the -- the location of the building, the
13 street, whatever you have, this is a
14 residential area. While most of the houses
15 don't necessarily back up to the church, I
16 mean, this is -- I mean, I know this area very
17 well. It's all full of neighborhoods and it's
18 not a commercial zone.
19 And so from the standpoint of just some
20 options we discussed on the phone, we discussed
21 the potential of potentially changing the off
22 hours from necessarily -- from nine until six
23 or maybe ten until five or something.
24 Part of what they're trying to do, from
25 what I understand, is reach some of the Navy
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1 traffic that goes out that way, which they do
2 quite a bit, and some of those people have very
3 early shifts, and so they're trying to reach
4 that. That was a -- one idea that was thrown
5 out.
6 The other thought was if -- if the message
7 is able to be dimmed, that it be set at some
8 reduced light level during the nighttime hours
9 because, let's face it, zoning by right, as I
10 understand it, would allow them to have an
11 externally-illuminated sign 24 hours a day.
12 The zoning code allows them to do that, and so
13 if the dimmable message -- if the message were
14 dimmable, potentially it could be on at a lower
15 light level, which would then, in a sense,
16 equate that effect of a non- -- of an
17 externally-illuminated sign, which then doesn't
18 produce any --
19 The idea is that it wouldn't produce a --
20 an effect any worse than what they have right
21 now or -- or sort of comparable to what they
22 have right now. That's where I was -- when I
23 asked the question whether it was dimmable or
24 not, I think that was the approach I was going
25 [sic] at that point.
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1 I'm not a real big fan of having a lot of
2 message -- changing message signs on 24 hours a
3 day in what is in a sense a residential area.
4 To me, that sets a bad precedent for this part
5 of the city, but I would certainly be open to
6 some options to mitigate -- I mean, the nine to
7 six is -- that's quite a bit -- if -- there
8 very well may be a way to mitigate that to some
9 extent and accomplish protection of the
10 residential character, yet allow them time to
11 get their message across when the largest
12 group -- or the bulk of the people that would
13 see it would do that. That was -- that's my
14 thought on that.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop
16 Mr. Grimm.
17 (Mr. Grimm approaches the podium.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: What do you think about the
19 10:00 to 5:00 concept; is that --
20 MR. GRIMM: It -- I mean, it -- it's a --
21 it's better.
22 I mean, dimmable would be our preference,
23 if that -- that's agreeable.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: We don't know about the
25 dimability tonight, and we have -- we're in an
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1 awkward position where we really can't
2 communicate with you between now and Tuesday
3 night.
4 MR. GRIMM: Could it be a -- either
5 dimmable -- if it can't be dimmed, it has to be
6 off between 10:00 and 5:00, an either-or? If
7 we can dim it to a comparable light level that
8 we're allowed by right, that's acceptable?
9 Otherwise, if we can't, then it has to just be
10 turned off?
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I guess, if we're -- I
12 mean, personally, if we're talking about -- and
13 I can only speak for myself -- dimability -- if
14 that's such a word -- I would want to -- I
15 would probably want to assign some quantitative
16 values to that so that, you know -- I mean,
17 turning it down one notch meets the criteria of
18 dimming the sign, but that may not be -- it may
19 be seven or eight notches to accommodate the
20 equivalency of an externally-illuminated sign.
21 So, I mean, I -- I'm a little reluctant on
22 the dimability unless it's got some
23 quantifiable values that we can plug in there,
24 and I'm not a -- a lumens engineer, but I'm
25 sure that -- I'm sure your sign maker can
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1 probably provide all that technical information
2 and the capability of the sign, and that's
3 absent at tonight's meeting, so --
4 Mr. Brown.
5 MR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 I was -- I thought we were on the right
7 track looking at the hours there, but it seems
8 like -- I mean, people are at and around and --
9 this is a church trying to do what churches do,
10 reach people.
11 It would look like -- how about 11:00 to
12 5:00? I mean, my gosh, that's 11 o'clock news
13 time, that's not late. It's not like a --
14 flashing lights.
15 I'd love to see them -- see us give them
16 something that they can count on tonight. And
17 the option that was mentioned -- if you can't
18 dim it to a suitable level, then he just turns
19 it off, but 11:00 would still let him reach a
20 lot of folks that travel -- McCormick Road,
21 isn't it? Busy, busy roadway. But it seems
22 like that would -- that would help the church
23 some.
24 I just feel bad coming down hard on a
25 church that's trying to reach people, and you
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1 guys are in a tough mood.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Brown, thank you.
3 I mean, I don't want to come down hard on
4 any church. I mean, we -- this is a waiver, so
5 they are making significant progress to have an
6 illuminated sign to begin with.
7 Mr. Redman.
8 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 You know, this is a busy road. I know
10 it's a -- it is a residential area, but we have
11 churches all over town in residential areas
12 that have similar lights that stay on all night
13 long. I just don't see this being a problem.
14 Evidently, the neighbors don't have a problem
15 with it or they would be here.
16 So, you know, I agree that if -- if he can
17 dim it, that would be good. If he would make
18 that commitment, if it's possible, to dim the
19 light at 11 o'clock would be a -- possibly a
20 good hour, but to turn off -- I think, you
21 know, missing the purpose of the sign, which is
22 a good purpose.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bishop -- thank you,
24 Mr. Redman.
25 Mr. Bishop.
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1 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 All advertising signs for any purpose are
3 there to reach an audience of some sort,
4 whether it's a church or a business. And
5 McCormick Road, while it is busy at certain
6 times of the day, there are other times of the
7 day where there's hardly anybody on it. You
8 know, midnight to 4:00 in the morning, you'll
9 hardly see a car. It's a residential area.
10 There -- it has a lot of through traffic
11 through it.
12 That being said, I can support Mr. Brown's
13 suggestion of 11:00 to 6:00, that's fine. I
14 mean, that -- 10:00 or 11:00 -- the 11 o'clock
15 news, you're right, that's not overly late, and
16 I can support that. I don't like the idea of a
17 thing being on full bright 24 hours a day in
18 what is an essentially -- a residential area.
19 I would suggest folks take a look at the
20 Wonderwood Corridor Study because it addresses
21 a lot of that intensification of use or -- not
22 to intensify the types of uses that are
23 going -- that this -- full bright signs can
24 tend to lead to.
25 I would also go so far as to say that
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1 should the appropriate information come about
2 of the dimability and if it is dimmable and we
3 can understand what it is by Tuesday, I would
4 certainly not have a problem supporting an
5 amendment Tuesday night to change that
6 condition from off from 11:00 to 5:00 to a
7 dimmable sign to a certain specified light
8 level, which I think is what you prefer anyway.
9 And I don't have a problem with that.
10 So what I would propose we do tonight is
11 add the -- add a -- add the third condition
12 back but change the hours from 11 p.m. to
13 5 a.m. and pass it out so they can get on with
14 it. If we need to modify it Tuesday night, we
15 can do that. And if that's -- needs to be a
16 motion, that's a motion.
17 MR. BROWN: Second.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: So you're moving an
19 amendment to add a third condition that the
20 sign would be off from the hours of 11 p.m.
21 until 5 a.m.?
22 MR. BISHOP: Five a.m.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Motion and second --
24 motion by --
25 MR. HOLT: Are we still in the public
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1 hearing?
2 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
3 Motion by Mr. Bishop, second by Mr. Holt
4 on essentially the -- what was the Brown
5 Amendment.
6 Mr. Reingold.
7 MR. REINGOLD: To the committee, I'm just
8 going to read the three conditions, if that's
9 okay, and then we'll ask the applicant how the
10 applicant feels about the condition.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, the applicant has
12 already read the first two and he's concurred
13 with those, so I think we just -- he said in
14 the record he accepted those.
15 MR. REINGOLD: All right. Mr. Kelly, did
16 you read into the record today that there was
17 sort of revised conditions that were talked
18 about at the last meeting? Because I believe
19 they were different than the ones in the staff
20 report.
21 MR. KELLY: I read the conditions right
22 from the agenda, correct.
23 MR. REINGOLD: Okay. Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Dylan, don't you
25 want to read the third one?
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1 MR. REINGOLD: And the third one is that
2 the electric message -- the electronic message
3 board shall not be operated between 11 p.m. and
4 5 a.m.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
6 Motion and a second on that additional
7 condition.
8 All those in favor, say yes.
9 Yes.
10 MR. HOLT: Yes.
11 MR. BROWN: Yes.
12 MR. BISHOP: Yes.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
14 MR. REDMAN: No.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've --
16 Mr. Redman -- record Mr. Redman as no on the --
17 on the amendment.
18 By your action, you have approved the
19 amendment.
20 Now I need a motion on the bill to either
21 grant or deny --
22 MR. BISHOP: Move the bill as amended to
23 grant the waiver.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Motion by Mr. Bishop
25 to grant the waiver as amended --
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1 MR. BROWN: Second.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: -- second by Mr. Brown.
3 Mr. Reingold.
4 MR. REINGOLD: I'm sorry. In just all the
5 discussion that we've had -- to the applicant,
6 your thoughts on the -- the change from 9:00 to
7 5:00 -- 9:00 to 6:00 to -- shrinking it to --
8 the electronic message board to --
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, I don't think
10 we're in a position to get his thoughts. We
11 are in a position to find out whether he wants
12 to -- whether he agrees to accept that
13 condition, correct?
14 MR. REINGOLD: (Nods head.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Grimm, do you
16 accept the third condition as you heard it read
17 into the record?
18 MR. GRIMM: Yes.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
20 All right. We have a motion and a second
21 to grant the waiver with the three conditions.
22 Any further discussion?
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, open the ballot,
25 vote, please.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 (Committee ballot opened.)
2 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
7 (Committee ballot closed.)
8 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you approved
10 item 4, 2010-893, granting the sign waiver with
11 the three conditions.
12 Thank you, Mr. Grimm.
13 MR. GRIMM: Thank you.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Appreciate your patience.
15 Sorry you had to come back.
16 MR. GRIMM: Appreciate it. Thank you.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 Item 5, 2010-900, is deferred.
19 Item 6, 2011-13.
20 Mr. Kelly.
21 MR. KELLY: Thank you.
22 To the Chair, application for rezoning,
23 ordinance 2011-13, seeks to rezone
24 approximately 2.3 acres of land from PUD to
25 PUD. This is an outparcel of the Costco
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 development at Gate Parkway and J. Turner
2 Butler. The proposal is for a restaurant.
3 Essentially, this PUD rezoning is
4 warranted because of the -- the original PUD
5 did not allow for the service of alcoholic
6 beverages, so this PUD is -- is basically
7 warranted to allow for the addition of alcohol
8 to the existing PUD.
9 The Department has reviewed this request
10 in conjunction with the criteria, finds it
11 consistent with the comprehensive plan, finds
12 it compatible both internally and externally,
13 and the conditions of approval for this
14 rezoning are as follows:
15 Condition 1, "The subject property is
16 legally described in the original legal
17 description dated November 30th, 2010."
18 Condition 2 "The subject property shall be
19 developed in accordance with the original
20 written description dated November 30th, 2010."
21 Condition 3, "The subject property shall
22 be developed in accordance with the revised
23 site plan dated February 9th, 2011."
24 I guess there was an issue with
25 readability of the date on the site plan and we
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 will -- for the record, that will be part of
2 the exhibit tonight and will be clarified.
3 The final condition relates to the
4 Development Services Division memorandum. "The
5 property shall be developed in accordance with
6 the Development Services Division memorandum
7 dated December 22nd, 2010, or as otherwise
8 approved by the Planning and Development
9 Department."
10 I did want to point out for the record
11 that we had received a letter as of yesterday
12 from the abutting property owner, the Costco
13 owners, at which point they had concerns with
14 any cross-access and their lack of support for
15 any cross-access with the Costco parcel;
16 however, I'll just note that the original PUD
17 site plan that was approved back in 2000,
18 specifically for this site and the outparcel
19 site, showed and identified the three
20 cross-access locations with the Costco site.
21 And, as proposed within this PUD, they are
22 consistent with the approved site plan from the
23 PUD in 2000, so the Department finds really --
24 actually, no merit for the -- the opposition's
25 lack of promoting any cross-access.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 So we are supporting with those
2 conditions. I just wanted to get that on the
3 record.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
5 Any questions for Mr. Kelly?
6 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing none,
8 this is a quasi-judicial matter.
9 Does anyone have any ex-parte
10 communication to disclose?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing none, we
13 have a public hearing scheduled this evening.
14 The public hearing is open. I two speakers'
15 cards, Joan -- Joanne Leguay or Legvay
16 (pronouncing) -- sorry, can't quite read your
17 handwriting -- followed by Jason Zook.
18 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
19 THE CHAIRMAN: And if you'll just state
20 your name and address for the record, I'll know
21 how to pronounce it.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. Good evening.
23 I'm Joan Leguay. I'm with BJ's
24 Restaurants, 5577 -- I'm sorry, 7755 Center
25 Avenue, Huntington Beach, California.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Good evening. I'm happy to be here
2 tonight to discuss our proposed project here in
3 Jacksonville. For those of you that aren't
4 familiar with BJ's, I just thought I'd take a
5 moment to tell you a little bit about our
6 restaurant.
7 We are based in Huntington Beach,
8 California. We just opened our hundredth
9 restaurant in 2010. We have seven restaurants
10 here in Florida. Last year we opened in
11 Daytona. And two years ago, in 2009, we opened
12 in Gainesville. And both restaurants are
13 exceeding our expectations, so we're very happy
14 to be operating restaurants here in Florida.
15 We are a family restaurant. We have a
16 menu that features our famous deep-dish pizzas,
17 along with a full menu of appetizers,
18 generously-proportioned salads, entrees, steak,
19 fish, pastas, and also a line of our own
20 hand-crafted microbrews, and our famous
21 Pizookie dessert.
22 We have led the casual-plus dining segment
23 for the last two years. We are very fortunate.
24 It's been a very difficult operating economy
25 for restaurants, but in spite of that, BJ's
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 executive team has decided that it's -- we're
2 doing so well that we are going to continue to
3 build this brand in carefully-selected markets.
4 We have been leading Cheesecake Factory,
5 P.F. Chang's, our entire dining segment, for a
6 couple of years now, so we're very proud of
7 that. We think that's due to our excellent
8 operations and also a very comfortable price
9 point, about 12 to $13 average guest check.
10 We will be building a substantial
11 investment in this -- in this restaurant,
12 multi-million-dollar building. It will be
13 consisting of natural stones and slates and a
14 very rich color palate. We will be hiring over
15 200 people here from the local community, and I
16 think that will be a bonus for both BJ's and
17 the whole community as well.
18 We have been working with staff for
19 several months now on this project, and I'm
20 here tonight to answer any questions you might
21 have, and we're looking forward to getting it
22 under construction soon here.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Leguay.
25 Do you accept the four conditions as read
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 into the record?
2 MS. LEGUAY: Yes, sir.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. And, by the
4 way, it's -- this -- we meet at 5:00, we're all
5 hungry, we haven't had dinner. You're up here
6 talking about deep-dish pizzas and appetizers,
7 I mean, go easy on us, will you?
8 MS. LEGUAY: All right.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: And my only other comment I
10 had -- or question was, are you affiliated with
11 the Costco competitor, BJ's, or is it --
12 MS. LEGUAY: No, not at all.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. It's going to
14 be interesting to see BJ's in front of Costco.
15 I think that's --
16 Any questions for Ms. Leguay?
17 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Stand by in
19 case we have any further discussion.
20 MS. LEGUAY: All right.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Our next speaker is Jason
22 Zook.
23 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Zook, if you'll begin
25 with your name and address for the record.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jason Zook, 4901 Gate
2 Parkway. I'm the general manager at Costco. I
3 almost live there, so I'll just give you that
4 address as -- as what's there.
5 I'm not here to dispute, I guess, BJ's
6 actually coming into that spot. I'm only here
7 to dispute on what we can come up with on --
8 before zoning is approved, that a traffic study
9 is done and some possible alternatives to entry
10 and egress out of the particular site. At this
11 point, it's completely locked up. Whether it's
12 BJ's coming in or any other -- any other
13 restaurant or any other facility, it's -- it's
14 locked up on -- every Saturday, Sunday,
15 lunchtime, and dinnertime where you can't
16 egress out of -- out of this site.
17 So before -- that's all I'm here -- before
18 the, you know, zoning and the -- the plan is
19 approved, that we come up with some other
20 options on adding additional space on -- on a
21 turn lane coming into the -- into the site and
22 turn -- turn lanes coming out of the site.
23 That's the only --
24 I know I missed the 24th, I guess, the --
25 the other meeting that was here. I was just
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 advised yesterday on -- on this meeting.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right, sir. Thank you
3 for your input.
4 Any questions from the committee?
5 MR. REDMAN: Yes.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman.
7 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 Mr. Gook, is that it? Is that right?
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Zook, with a "z," like
10 Zook. Like the football --
11 MR. REDMAN: Okay. Mr. Zook, I have not
12 talked with anybody personally about this
13 project. I'm -- I wish somebody had contacted
14 me so I would have more information about it,
15 but I understand there is only one entrance in
16 and out of this -- well, for your business or
17 this proposed business, so -- but at the same
18 time, I understand that y'all knew that and
19 that there would be probably other businesses
20 moving into that area; is that true?
21 MR. ZOOK: Well, there's actually --
22 there's a main entrance and then there's two
23 side entrances and exits that come off of the
24 lot. The main entrance is the one I'm -- in
25 reference to, has one turn lane, left, outside
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 of -- to turn left onto Gate Parkway, to enter
2 into -- onto JTB. That -- that particular
3 exit, because of the CVS, the Pollo Tropical,
4 the Zaxby's, all of those other businesses that
5 have lined up and that are -- are new to that
6 area, it's -- it's completely locked up coming
7 in and out of that -- of the site on the main
8 entrance.
9 MR. REDMAN: And I'm familiar with the
10 area. It is a traffic nightmare already; I
11 know that, so -- does -- any information
12 that -- Mr. Kelly, maybe you can give us
13 that --
14 MR. KELLY: Certainly.
15 Actually, the Department has been looking
16 at the Town Center Parkway and Gate Parkway
17 intersection with some other developments that
18 are proposed to be going in, and so we're
19 looking at some major improvements that free up
20 the flow at that intersection.
21 Additionally, I'll just point out that the
22 turn lane to the entrance, which is the shared
23 entrance really for -- for both Costco and two
24 outparcels out front, the turn lane, as it is
25 today, goes all the way back to the DOT
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 right-of-way line for J. Turner Butler, so
2 there's no possible means of extending that
3 turn lane. It's sized appropriately for the
4 development that it serves and was approved
5 with the outparcels in mind originally back
6 when Costco was built in 2002 or '03.
7 Additionally, when the Department reviewed
8 this site plan on the intake, when we first
9 came in, they were proposing a -- kind of a
10 full-access driveway, the BJ's development, to
11 the existing shared driveway. The Department
12 requested -- because of the proximity to the
13 Gate Parkway, the Department requested that
14 that driveway be converted to a right-in/
15 right-out so that you have no conflicting left
16 turn movements to try to cross the median break
17 in the middle of this driveway access aisle.
18 So we feel -- and we're very comfortable
19 that the improvements that are proposed down
20 the line, in addition to the original
21 improvements that were required in 2000 on --
22 upon Costco, basically, to prohibit exiting
23 left turn movements from their development onto
24 Gate Parkway, that -- that ultimately, in the
25 end, there's a fix for that, and it's a
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 combination of probably three or four different
2 things that will achieve the desired result for
3 that area, but we feel that it's -- to tie
4 anything else down to this one specific parcel
5 for, you know, generating all this additional
6 traffic, we don't think it's warranted.
7 They're not generating the traffic; it's the
8 town center; it's the million-plus square feet
9 behind it that is generating the traffic, and
10 there's a plan in place to address those --
11 those traffic problems.
12 MR. REDMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
13 Mr. Zook, does that make you feel any
14 better about the --
15 MR. ZOOK: Absolutely not.
16 My only -- like I said, my only concern is
17 before this is approved -- and, like I said, I
18 don't care who goes in here, whether it's one
19 more business or not, the -- the way that it's
20 set right now is not an acceptable entry or
21 exit out. The turn lane coming in is 168 feet.
22 We're proposing to go an additional 201 feet on
23 a site plan.
24 And we are working with First Coast Energy
25 that has purchased the last spot on the north
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 side of the -- of the lot next to Zaxby's to
2 try to have -- there needs to be two turn lanes
3 going out of that facility, which will
4 alleviate all the gridlock in that -- in that
5 traffic.
6 So if they don't agree -- if First Coast
7 Energy does not agree to give up .08 of their
8 .98 of an acre, we would like to move the
9 entrance over on the BJ's Brewhouse side to --
10 another 9 feet to still make the two turn lanes
11 going out, but before it's locked into being
12 approved, that -- I mean, that's what we're
13 talking about at this point.
14 MR. REDMAN: Okay. I suggest that we
15 defer this for a cycle and possibly meet with
16 both parties and see if we can't come up with
17 a -- and possibly Mr. Kelly meet with us. So
18 if you would -- I'll give you my card and you
19 get with my office and set up a meeting.
20 MR. ZOOK: Okay.
21 MR. REDMAN: Thank you.
22 MR. ZOOK: Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Redman.
24 Ms. Leguay, was it, are you -- you live in
25 California?
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 MS. LEGUAY: I do.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: So, what, you flew here --
3 didn't you speak at our council meeting last
4 week?
5 MS. LEGUAY: A representative from BJ's
6 did.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That was somebody
8 else.
9 MS. LEGUAY: Right.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Is that a problem for you,
11 to come back to another meeting?
12 MS. LEGUAY: Well, I just wanted to say a
13 couple of things.
14 First of all, we've been working with
15 staff on these access points for a long time
16 now, and the three access -- there's actually
17 three access points. I think there might be
18 some confusion. We initially had the access
19 point over the entry drive, and then staff had
20 asked us to limit those turning movements,
21 which we did, and also to eliminate several
22 parking stalls at all three access points to
23 provide for additional backup or stacking. So
24 really it's been studied quite a bit already by
25 Engineering and Traffic.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Those three access points, actually, as
2 Mr. Kelly had indicated, were already part of
3 the Costco approval and they are -- those are
4 recorded documents in the Costco CC and Rs. So
5 I'm not sure why Costco wasn't aware of that,
6 but this has been, you know, going on for
7 sometime now, so I'm not sure kind of why right
8 now we're addressing that because I think
9 our -- those three access points were already
10 determined when, you know -- in Costco's CC and
11 Rs.
12 And if you look at the site plan, we've
13 already mitigated by taking out 17 parking
14 stalls, providing adequate backup and stacking
15 for any kind of congestion at any of those
16 three access points. I think on the BJ's
17 parcel, that's all that we can really do.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, my question to
19 you, ma'am, was, is it going to be a problem
20 for you to come back to another meeting? I
21 appreciate all the information, but Mr. Redman
22 is uncomfortable -- he's the district council
23 member. If there's problems after this gets
24 erected and constructed, guess who they're
25 going to call? It's not going to be the staff
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 that you worked with; it's going to be
2 Mr. Redman. He's the district council member,
3 so --
4 MS. LEGUAY: So what -- I guess, what
5 would be the next sequence of events? Because
6 we were already scheduled to come back next
7 week for City Council, which was supposed to be
8 our final hearing, so what does that do to the
9 schedule now?
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman, do you have any
11 guess as to --
12 MR. REDMAN: If we can meet between now
13 and the next two weeks, it would come back
14 before the LUZ Committee in two weeks. So if
15 we can get a meeting together, which -- I'm
16 available. So if we meet and come up with a
17 conclusion, then it can go before this
18 committee in two weeks. It's -- you know, it's
19 still going to have to pass through this
20 committee.
21 And, you know, not being informed -- I
22 wish you had contacted me and let me in on
23 the -- what was going on, and I would feel a
24 lot more comfortable, but as it is right now, I
25 don't want to sign off on this until I meet
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1 with both parties and have an idea just what
2 the problems are.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Let's hold that
4 thought, Mr. Redman. I've got three other
5 speakers on the queue.
6 Mr. Zook and Ms. Leguay, just stand by.
7 Councilman Brown, you're next, sir.
8 MR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 I was just wondering if there wouldn't be
10 some potential of the Planning Department
11 providing a little more information to Mr. Zook
12 because we're -- we're talking about some --
13 apparently some substantial changes that are
14 coming up to alleviate some of this problem and
15 yet now we're -- we've got a business that has
16 gone through all of the proper steps and is
17 ready for approval, and it looks like Mr. Zook
18 is a little late getting in here, might --
19 might be able to work with him a little better
20 than that, but -- rather than deferring an
21 entire cycle, I'm just wondering, between now
22 and next Tuesday, if -- if Mr. Zook could look
23 at some of the plans from the Planning
24 Department and might see that the -- the plans
25 that are underway will take care of what we're
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 talking about for the most part anyhow.
2 But I feel like the restaurant that has
3 gone through all of the -- the preconditioning
4 and getting ready to go, it's a little unfair
5 to just push them back like that. I think we
6 could do both.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Brown.
8 Mr. Bishop.
9 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 I tend to agree with Mr. Brown's comments
11 on this. This is what -- this kind of a
12 business is what this town center is all about.
13 It's what it was planned for to begin with, and
14 the only reason I think they're here to do a
15 PUD is because everything in this whole site is
16 a PUD and you have to do it for everything that
17 goes in; otherwise, they're -- I mean, that's
18 the only reason why we're having this
19 conversation in the first place.
20 MR. KELLY: Actually, just to clarify, the
21 only reason they're here is because of the
22 alcohol license type that they specifically
23 need for the restaurant. It's a bona fide
24 restaurant license, which requires, you know,
25 all those stipulations in terms of square feet
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 of the store, the number of seats, and that
2 sort of thing. So it -- that's basically the
3 reason they're here, was to get the additional
4 liquor into the PUD. The site was previously
5 approved for a car wash, which disappeared.
6 MR. BISHOP: Okay. Well, I stand
7 corrected on the reason why we're here, but the
8 point still remains the same. This business
9 isn't any different than half a dozen other
10 restaurants that are doing exactly the same
11 thing in this exact same general vicinity.
12 The design of this whole site, regardless
13 of what goes in there, is going to have the
14 same problems. I mean, the Costco parking lot
15 is about five times bigger than this entire --
16 parking generated by this one business all by
17 itself. So while I sympathize with Costco's
18 issues, don't get me wrong, this kind of a site
19 plan is, quite frankly, not a very good design,
20 and I think we all know that. When you've got
21 all these cars going in one single entrance, it
22 creates a mess. But, by the same token, that's
23 the mess that's been created, and this is a
24 site that's intended for a business of this --
25 or other similar type, and I don't really think
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 it's all that fair to hold them up on what
2 amounts to something that they don't really
3 have a whole lot of control over, and so I
4 would support moving this thing forward.
5 Thank you.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
7 Mr. Holt.
8 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
9 Well, having heard what Mr. Kelly just
10 said, that really kind of changes things in my
11 mind, but I would -- through the Chair, I'd ask
12 Mr. Redman if we can save somebody flying to
13 California and back by spending an extra couple
14 of minutes to try and figure out something to
15 make it a little more acceptable. I'd -- I'd
16 certainly be willing to spend the extra few
17 minutes.
18 MR. REDMAN: Through the Chair, yes.
19 I would agree. I mean, I -- I mean, it is
20 something that I would love to see there, a
21 beautiful project, and the town center being --
22 like Mr. Bishop said, it fits right in with the
23 rest of the stores there, but I would ask
24 Mr. Zook if -- if you would step up here,
25 please.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 (Mr. Zook approaches the podium.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Redman, would you like
3 to -- would you like to perhaps --
4 MR. REDMAN: Meet with them in the Green
5 Room?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: The next couple of items we
7 aren't going to need the services of Mr. Kelly
8 and I was thinking maybe you might want to --
9 maybe with Mr. Kelly and --
10 MR. REDMAN: Yeah, if we could have a fast
11 session in the Green Room right over here
12 (indicating), and hopefully come to some --
13 some --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, is that okay?
15 MR. REDMAN: -- Mr. Kelly could meet with
16 us.
17 (Simultaneous speaking.)
18 MR. REINGOLD: What?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: -- (inaudible) need to
20 (inaudible) on that? Is that all right or
21 would you -- do you have a preference or a
22 desire to sit on that?
23 MR. REINGOLD: I think the technical
24 nature of that discussion would be very
25 appropriately handled by Mr. Kelly.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
2 So what we're going to do, then, while
3 they're in the Green Room, we're just going to
4 temporarily pass over item 6, 2011-13, and
5 we'll move on to item 7, 2011-14.
6 This bill was approved by the committee at
7 our last meeting. It is back. It was
8 rereferred back to the committee, and we have
9 no public hearing scheduled.
10 Mr. Holt, what is your -- what is your --
11 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, can we have a
13 public hearing even though it's not scheduled?
14 MR. REINGOLD: I guess we're really not in
15 the posture to have a public hearing on it, but
16 certainly would be interested to hear the
17 council member's comments.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: So is that, yes, we can
19 have a public hearing?
20 I think Mr. Holt has some ex-parte
21 communication to disclose.
22 MR. REINGOLD: That would be a good idea
23 for him to disclose that.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So what we'll
25 do is we'll open an unscheduled public hearing
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 on this item, item 7. I think we only had one
2 speaker last time; he's in the audience.
3 So the public hearing is open.
4 Mr. Kupperman, did you want to address the
5 committee or if you want Mr. Holt to speak and
6 then I can -- I'll leave the public hearing
7 open for you.
8 MR. KUPPERMAN: (Nods head.)
9 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
10 Mr. Holt.
11 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
12 Through the Chair, I asked for this to be
13 brought back because I needed to speak with
14 some of the community members. And, in fact, I
15 did speak on the -- well, first, on February
16 16th and February 17th, spoke with Madeline
17 Reed (phonetic) and then spoke with her again
18 on the 26th about the issues that -- of
19 buffering and potential expansion of the -- of
20 the facilities, and she was very satisfied with
21 what happened at the Planning Commission.
22 She's a community leader in that area.
23 So I'm ready to move forward with it now
24 since the community has been satisfied by the
25 conditions from the Planning Commission, so if
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 we want to move forward, I'm -- I'm happy.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you,
3 Mr. Holt.
4 Mr. Kupperman, did you want to address the
5 committee?
6 (Mr. Kupperman approaches the podium.)
7 MR. KUPPERMAN: Greg Kupperman, 200 First
8 Street, Suite B, Neptune Beach, Florida.
9 I concur with all of the Planning
10 Commission conditions in the -- which came from
11 staff; however, the -- Mr. Reingold, Mr. Kelly,
12 and Mr. Crofts did have a slight modification
13 to the one condition that deals with the
14 masonry wall. It does the exact same thing
15 that the Planning Commission does except
16 Mr. Reingold had a problem with the -- I guess
17 the language of it, and we -- and the LUZ
18 Committee revised that one condition, and I've
19 given that information to Mr. Crofts.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold, do you
21 remember the change on that?
22 MR. REINGOLD: I have it sitting right in
23 front of me.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Condition 5, was it?
25 MR. REINGOLD: Yeah. It's actually -- as
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1 the amendment reads, it's section 2 of the
2 ordinance, subsection B, "An 8-foot-tall
3 masonry wall shall be installed and maintained
4 along the south property line to the extent
5 that is adjacent to property utilized for
6 residential uses."
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And the former
8 condition was, "An 8-foot-tall masonry wall
9 shall be constructed along the property line
10 where adjacent to a residential dwelling," so
11 it's a little bit more -- you know, you get
12 these lawyers involved, they've got to -- they
13 get paid by the word, so we -- we have a few
14 more words.
15 All right. Mr. Kupperman, you're okay
16 with that?
17 MR. KUPPERMAN: Yes, sir.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt?
19 MR. HOLT: Yes.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Anyone else
21 care to address the committee?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no one, the public
24 hearing is closed.
25 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Do we need to -- we just
2 need to move, what, to reconfirm our previous
3 action?
4 MR. REINGOLD: Move the amendment.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reingold.
6 MR. REINGOLD: I think the proper posture
7 is to move the amendment.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Just take it up like it
9 was -- okay.
10 Motion on the amendment by Mr. Holt. Is
11 there a second?
12 MR. BROWN: Second.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Second by Mr. Brown.
14 Discussion on the amendment?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All those in favor, say
17 yes.
18 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 By your action, you have adopted the
22 amendment.
23 MR. HOLT: Move the bill as amended.
24 MR. BISHOP: Second.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
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53
1 amended by Mr. Holt, second by Mr. Bishop.
2 Discussion?
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing none,
5 open the ballot, vote.
6 (Committee ballot opened.)
7 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
8 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
9 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
10 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
11 (Committee ballot closed.)
12 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nay.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
14 approved item 7, -2014 [sic].
15 Turning to page 4, at the top, item 8. We
16 have a motion to withdraw this, but we do have
17 a public hearing scheduled this evening. It is
18 quasi-judicial. Does anyone have any ex-parte
19 communication to disclose?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
22 the public hearing is open.
23 Any speakers' cards?
24 MS. DAVIS: No.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: None.
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1 Anyone care to address the committee?
2 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no one, the public
4 hearing is closed.
5 We do have a request and the Department's
6 agreement to withdraw with a refund of the
7 fees. Is there a motion accordingly?
8 MR. HOLT: Move withdrawal with fees.
9 MR. BISHOP: Second.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion by Mr. Holt, second
11 by Mr. Bishop.
12 Discussion on the motion?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: If not -- Mr. Bishop, I'm
15 sorry.
16 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 Through the Chair to the Planning
18 Commission -- or the Planning Department, does
19 this meet the standards of the Department for a
20 refund of fees with respect to having reviewed
21 anything or not?
22 MR. CROFTS: Yes, it does, sir.
23 We recommend -- we recommend withdrawal
24 with fees because we have not done any work and
25 actually it's coming back in another form or
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1 fashion, so we're in support, it does meet our
2 standards.
3 MR. BISHOP: Very good.
4 Thank you.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
6 Any further discussion?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have a
9 motion and a second on the withdrawal.
10 If there's no further discussion, open the
11 ballot, vote.
12 (Committee ballot opened.)
13 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
14 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
15 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
17 (Committee ballot closed.)
18 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nay.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you have
20 withdrawn item 8, 2011-36.
21 Item 9, 2011-37.
22 Mr. Huxford.
23 MR. HUXFORD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 Application for rezoning, ordinance
25 2011-37, is for property at 450 North Kernan
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1 Boulevard. That's just to the north of
2 Atlantic Boulevard, seeking to rezone Duval
3 County School Board property from planned unit
4 development to PBF-1. The main reason for this
5 is that the school board prefers to have their
6 land located in a PBF-1 zoning district rather
7 than inside the envelope of a PUD.
8 We've reviewed it and so has Planning
9 Commission. Both -- we recommend approval,
10 finding that it is consistent with the
11 comprehensive plan and with the character of
12 the area.
13 It is located within a school regulation
14 zone for Naval Station Mayport. And per State
15 Statute, there needs to be a finding by the
16 governing body -- in this case, the City
17 Council -- to allow for an exception so that
18 there could be a school facility built within
19 the zone. We've noted that it is located at
20 the very southwestern perimeter of the runway
21 zone. The City has a -- the school regulation
22 zone extends for five miles off the end of any
23 particular runway; in this case, the one
24 located at Naval Station Mayport, and the --
25 this is right at the end, so we find that it's
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1 unlikely to generate any public hazard.
2 Also, the aircraft activity out at Naval
3 Station Mayport tends to be comprised of
4 helicopter squadrons rather than fixed-wing
5 aircraft.
6 So, with that, we are recommending
7 approval and we suggest that you do allow for
8 the exception.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Huxford.
10 Any questions from the committee?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. This is a
13 quasi-judicial matter. Anyone have any
14 ex-parte communication to disclose?
15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
17 we have a public hearing scheduled this
18 evening. The public hearing is open.
19 Any speaker cards?
20 MS. DAVIS: No.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: None.
22 Anyone care to address the committee?
23 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
25 the public hearing is closed.
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1 We have an amendment.
2 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment.
3 MR. BISHOP: Second.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment by
5 Mr. Holt, second by Mr. Bishop.
6 Discussion?
7 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, all those in favor,
9 say yes.
10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you've
14 adopted the amendment.
15 Mr. Reingold.
16 MR. REINGOLD: To the committee, I guess I
17 just have come up with some language for a
18 whereas clause, but I wanted -- if the LUZ
19 Committee wanted me to run it by, but if you
20 just want to adopt the amendment, I'm fine with
21 that, and --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: You mean you want a
23 different amendment than what's on the --
24 MR. REINGOLD: Oh, no. That's actually
25 the amendment, is the additional whereas
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1 clause, but it's a -- it's a little bit -- it's
2 worded a little bit differently than actually
3 written on your agenda, so I would be happy to
4 read it if that would --
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. If you feel more
6 comfortable, Mr. Reingold, let's hear your --
7 your version.
8 MR. REINGOLD: Essentially, it would be a
9 whereas clause that incorporates the findings
10 that -- the construction of a
11 previously-approved school at this location
12 outweighs the health and safety concerns
13 prohibiting a school at this location, which is
14 situated at the very edge of the delineated
15 area.
16 MR. HOLT: Move the amendment to the
17 amendment.
18 MR. BISHOP: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment to
20 the amendment by Mr. Holt, second by
21 Mr. Bishop, on the new whereas amendment.
22 Any discussion?
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All those in favor, say
25 yes.
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
3 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
5 adopted the replacement amendment.
6 MR. BISHOP: Move the bill as amended.
7 MR. HOLT: Second.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
9 amended by Mr. Bishop, second by Mr. Holt.
10 Discussion?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, open the ballot,
13 vote.
14 (Committee ballot opened.)
15 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
16 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
17 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
18 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
19 (Committee ballot closed.)
20 MS. LAHMEUR: Four yeas, zero nay.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you have
22 approved item 9, 2011-37, as amended.
23 Item 10, 2011-38. We're not going to take
24 any action on this tonight. We do have a
25 public hearing scheduled. We're going to open
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1 the public hearing, hear from the speakers, and
2 then continue the public hearing until our
3 meeting on the 15th, so -- the public hearing
4 is open. I have one speaker's card, John
5 Eason.
6 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is John Eason.
8 I reside at 4323 Fern Creek Drive.
9 My property in Charter Point backs up to
10 the property that is involved in this
11 application for a waiver, backs up to -- to my
12 property on the other side of -- of my fence,
13 and we have concerns, those of us whose
14 properties back up to this property involved
15 with the waiver, problems we already have with
16 drainage when we have a good bit of rain
17 already and how this would increase most likely
18 if we have someone who comes in and develops
19 this property as proposed, especially with
20 putting in a -- a raised septic tank.
21 There's a proposal for a septic tank and a
22 well and we already have water and sewer
23 facilities that could be connected to, and
24 there is also concern about this waiver setting
25 a precedent that would be detrimental to the
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1 overall area.
2 Thank you.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Eason.
4 Any questions from the committee?
5 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Eason, have you read
7 the Planning Department's report on this item?
8 MR. EASON: Yes, I have.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
10 All right. Any other speakers care to
11 address the committee?
12 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing --
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating.)
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. We'll need you to
16 fill out a speaker's card, one of these
17 (indicating), after you conclude your comments,
18 but come on up and we'll hear from you, then
19 just do the paperwork afterwards, please.
20 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Alice Bayne. I live at
22 4305 Fern Creek Drive, also a neighbor of
23 Mr. Eason.
24 My property is on the other side of the
25 fence that abuts to this general property.
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1 I just want to lend support to a
2 disapproval of the waiver, also -- with keeping
3 in mind that there is a roadway, and on the
4 other side of that roadway, across from the
5 parcel that's asking for the waiver, there's
6 probably ten acres that's on the market at the
7 moment, and that also -- the precedent of
8 approval of the waiver would set a precedent
9 that perhaps those parcels also would impact
10 our drainage problem.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Bayne.
12 Any questions for Ms. Bayne?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you.
15 Anyone else care to -- Ms. Bayne, I do
16 need you to fill out -- Ms. Bayne, I do need
17 you to fill out a -- one of the yellow cards.
18 MS. BAYNE: Where is it?
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Right there on the desk.
20 If you will just complete it there and
21 drop it in that basket to the left, you'll be
22 official.
23 All right. Any other speakers?
24 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing none,
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1 the public hearing is continued until
2 March 15th and we're taking no further action
3 on that bill.
4 At the bottom of the page, that's going to
5 require Mr. Kelly, so let's skip over --
6 MR. CROFTS: Mr. Chairman, we can take
7 that up. Mr. Huxford is prepared to discuss
8 it.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Huxford. Great.
10 I'll let you give the report, then.
11 MR. HUXFORD: Okay. Thank you,
12 Mr. Chairman.
13 Ordinance 2011-40 is an application for a
14 waiver of road frontage, specifically
15 application WRF-10-16, for property located
16 north of 103rd Street, south of Noroad, out on
17 the west side of town, seeking to reduce the
18 required road frontage from eighty feet to
19 zero feet so that an undeveloped lot can be
20 developed with one single-family dwelling.
21 Staff has reviewed the application and we
22 do have some concerns. A bit of quick history
23 about the property -- and if you look at the
24 map located on page 8 of the staff report, this
25 piece of land, as I understand it, was
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1 previously part of a larger purchase that
2 included a subdivision that was built to the
3 north; however, this land was separated from
4 the subdivision land by McGirts Creek and
5 associated wetlands, and so it was not
6 developed.
7 The applicant would try -- is proposing to
8 access the property by way of an old Jax
9 Heights right-of-way, north from 103rd Street,
10 of -- at the distance of over a thousand feet.
11 Our concerns are that -- given the remote
12 location of this property, we have concerns
13 about the ability for the City to provide
14 essential services that we would otherwise be
15 required to provide.
16 The pathway, if you want to call it that,
17 or the right-of-way leading to the property
18 does not have a name and the addressing section
19 of the Planning Department has some concerns
20 about that for 911 purposes.
21 There are some other properties using the
22 same right-of-ways that have been developed,
23 but research by the Planning Department -- we
24 couldn't figure out if variances are granted
25 on -- which would be in their -- potentially
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1 lots of record. This property is not a lot of
2 record.
3 So for the reasons I've given, plus
4 concerns that this could serve as a precedent
5 for additional similar waivers in the area, we
6 are recommending denial.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Huxford.
8 Ms. Bayne, before you leave, I need you to
9 sign this card.
10 Sorry. One more piece of paperwork.
11 All right. Any questions from the
12 committee for Mr. Huxford?
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Does that complete your
15 report, sir?
16 MR. HUXFORD: Yes, sir.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18 All right. This is a quasi-judicial
19 matter. Does anyone have any ex-parte
20 communication to disclose?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, we have a
23 public hearing scheduled this evening. The
24 public hearing is open.
25 Any speakers' cards?
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1 MS. DAVIS: (Tenders speaker card.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: One speaker's card, Bryan
3 Cribbs.
4 Mr. Cribbs.
5 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi.
7 Bryan Cribbs, 179 Tiffany Circle, Spring
8 Lake, North Carolina.
9 Very much would like to make my new
10 address 9193 103rd.
11 Today is my first day of retirement from
12 the Air Force, 20 years. I'm in North Carolina
13 right now.
14 I searched for this property for over a
15 year. This is an ideal location; I love it.
16 And although under my research I did realize
17 that it did not have the 80 feet required road
18 frontage, I knew that there was a waiver
19 application process. And I was trying to
20 pursue that before the purchase, but a new
21 offer came in and it was decision time. I had
22 to either buy it or not or let it go,
23 and simply due to the fact that -- there's 26
24 properties that surround this, and most all of
25 them have homes or businesses on them, and the
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1 actual easement that I'll be using is a public
2 easement, is already in use by other residents
3 in that area, so I kind of felt that the risks
4 were probably minimal.
5 Some of the plans and developments' [sic]
6 concerns are valid, but my request really is
7 not creating them nor will it negate them.
8 This is -- you know, a separate issue needs to
9 be resolved with or without me.
10 I've talked to Addressing, and it seems
11 simple enough to name this -- this public
12 easement. All we need is an approved name and
13 then the process of notifying all those -- and
14 then their address will probably change to that
15 road. That would make it easy to -- easier to
16 find.
17 I have some comments about the five
18 criteria. Number one, practical and
19 economical. It is going to be economically
20 difficult for me to resolve this any other way
21 because I can't afford to make the improvements
22 that the City would like to see on this
23 easement. I can't bring it up to the
24 development standards it needs and I can't
25 afford to buy a property with 80 feet of road
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1 frontage that adjoins this property.
2 I'm not trying to circumvent or reduce
3 cost. I think a reasonable effort was made
4 from the previous owner. He purchased this
5 15-feet [sic] driveway from the bulk of the
6 15 acres to allow himself to have access from
7 that public easement and was also granted
8 another 15-feet easement, so there's 30 feet of
9 legal access to the property.
10 And, number 5 -- the criteria number 5,
11 you know, the waiver is enabling me to join a
12 group of residents in an already noncompliant
13 neighborhood, but the -- it's going to have to
14 be fixed anyway.
15 The bottom line is the City can afford for
16 me to live here, but I cannot afford to move,
17 so -- you know, the solutions that I had was --
18 it was rename it.
19 I've had the police department on the
20 property already. I found a boat in the creek.
21 And, ironically enough, the hull ID number of
22 the boat is also my retirement order number,
23 5984, so maybe that's a sign.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: The hull number of the boat
25 was what?
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1 MR. CRIBBS: The hull ID number on the
2 boat was my retirement order number, 5984.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: You should buy a lottery
4 ticket. That's very strange.
5 All right. Anything else, Mr. Cribbs?
6 MR. CRIBBS: I was just going to say, I
7 will -- I'll be glad to -- in the meantime,
8 without a street name, I'd be glad to advertise
9 my address in any way I can. And I was going
10 to make a little joke about an illuminated
11 sign, but I won't do that.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, that's probably not a
13 good idea.
14 Where is 103rd Street? Is it -- where's
15 the driveway? Is it on the southern part of
16 the property?
17 MR. CRIBBS: It's directly across from
18 Rockola Street [sic]. Theres's a gas station
19 there. It's called the Blue Store.
20 On page 7, you'll see that aerial photo,
21 and to the left there is a large mobile home
22 park, and this is -- what I don't want to see
23 happen is me to have to pay rent to move my
24 mobile home. That's my intended purpose. I
25 own that mobile home in North Carolina, I'd
Diane M. Tropia, Inc., P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 like to move it down, so --
2 THE CHAIRMAN: So the driveway is going
3 towards the left, running north of the mobile
4 home property; is that what you're saying? The
5 easement --
6 MR. CRIBBS: If you're coming west on
7 103rd from the Navy base, you're going to take
8 a right at -- just after the Blue Store, in
9 between the mobile home park and Blue Store,
10 and then my -- my property is outlined in red
11 there on page 7. I have to make a right onto
12 my driveway.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
14 All right. Any other -- any questions
15 from the committee?
16 MR. CRIBBS: Could I say one more thing?
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
18 MR. CRIBBS: I'm -- I really don't want to
19 get denied, and if there's a -- if it sounds
20 like this is going to happen or needs to happen
21 for reasons I don't know, I'd be willing to
22 postpone it, work with whoever I need to to
23 resolve any issues or concerns, if that -- $892
24 it cost me to just ask can I do this and I'd
25 hate to have to --
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: I understand, sir.
2 All right. Thank you for that. If you'll
3 just stand by here.
4 Any questions from the committee?
5 MR. HOLT: Yes.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Holt.
7 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, for staff? You want to
9 wait?
10 MR. HOLT: Sure.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
12 Mr. Cribbs. And thank you for your service to
13 our country. Twenty years is a big commitment.
14 We appreciate you doing that. We're glad you
15 are in one piece.
16 Anyone else care to address the committee?
17 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
18 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Seeing no one,
19 the public hearing is closed. We are back in
20 committee.
21 Mr. Holt.
22 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
23 Through the Chair to staff, can you run
24 through exactly what your fear is with this?
25 Is it an issue of addressing, emergency/EMS
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1 access, garbage, where they would have to stage
2 garbage? What are your fears?
3 MR. KELLY: Well, primarily it is
4 always -- by nature, it defaults to public
5 health and safety as our number one concern.
6 I think in the staff report, the -- the
7 garbage cans and I believe the mailboxes,
8 they're all kind of on a -- on the frontage of
9 103rd, so there's no service from any garbage
10 trucks and the -- I guess the garbage cans from
11 the residents that currently live on that
12 street are out -- all out at 103rd Street, but
13 our concern is, you know, the circuitous kind
14 of route, the condition of the accessway. This
15 is just kind of a dirt path. And this area is
16 prone to flooding. So, you know, the
17 combination of those -- those elements are
18 primarily the reason for the denial.
19 MR. HOLT: Thank you.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
21 Mr. Brown.
22 MR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 I would just -- the applicant mentioned
24 that -- a deferral and an opportunity to work
25 with the -- it wasn't clear to me, were there
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1 any of these conditions he can address within
2 some reasonable way that -- a kind of shopping
3 list that we can help him?
4 I sense that --
5 MR. KELLY: We do.
6 MR. BROWN: -- we would like to help.
7 MR. KELLY: The Department, in the past,
8 has basically conditioned these waivers with --
9 obviously, no future subdivision of the land so
10 that more lots aren't created. We don't want
11 to set a precedent, so allowing -- providing a
12 condition that precludes any further
13 subdivision of the property is one.
14 Typically, we will also make sure the
15 address is properly noticed on 103rd Street.
16 And certainly, as he indicated, naming the
17 easement would probably be -- as approved
18 through the Addressing Division in Development
19 Services would certainly be warranted. Perhaps
20 improvements to stabilizing the accessway to a
21 certain standard, gravel, you know, coquina put
22 down and stabilized to provide for positive
23 drainage along the travelway so that it doesn't
24 become, you know, potholey or get, you know,
25 subject to flooding like that.
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1 So those are things in the past that we've
2 done in similar situations.
3 MR. BROWN: That would seem to be a --
4 some things that a resident with limited
5 resources might be able to work with us on,
6 wouldn't you think?
7 MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
8 MR. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, I would just
9 think if we could defer one cycle and let our
10 applicant work with them -- anything else is
11 going to be a terrible hardship, it sounds
12 like, so if we could address some of those
13 conditions in maybe a do-it-yourself sort of
14 fashion, that would be neat.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you,
16 Mr. Brown.
17 Mr. Cribbs, did I understand that you live
18 here now in Jacksonville?
19 MR. CRIBBS: No, sir.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: You do not.
21 Where do you live? I'm sorry.
22 MR CRIBBS: 179 Tiffany Circle in North
23 Carolina. I'm -- I would love to have moved in
24 December, but -- and I understand this process
25 takes a little bit, but --
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I don't want to get
2 into a protracted discussion, but would you --
3 come to the mic -- would you be able to -- I
4 mean, if we were to defer this, are you in a
5 position to work with the staff and try to come
6 up with some remedies on some of these --
7 MR. CRIBBS: Yes, sir.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: So you can do that by
9 telephone or make another trip down or
10 whatever?
11 MR. CRIBBS: Yes, sir.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. That's
13 all I wanted to know.
14 Thank you.
15 Mr. Bishop.
16 MR. BISHOP: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 This is a question for staff. In looking
18 at the zoning map that's in the book, it looks
19 like that the easement or pathway that would be
20 used to access this property comes north off of
21 103rd Street and takes a hard right at the
22 southern property boundary of this property,
23 goes through one parcel into the subject
24 parcel, and then I'm assuming it continues on
25 through and goes into some of these other
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1 parcels that say "vacant" back there?
2 MR. KELLY: That's correct. It goes to
3 this property directly.
4 There are some vacant properties that are
5 on the easement as it leads up. There's two
6 vacant properties and three mobile homes behind
7 the gas station, so those -- those are two
8 vacant lots, and then, additionally,
9 immediately off the easement, to the west of
10 the subject property, is a single-family
11 dwelling.
12 MR. BISHOP: Okay. To the immediate east
13 of the subject property there's a parcel that's
14 called "vacant" and then I guess it would be
15 the southeast, there's a larger parcel that
16 says "vacant" also. How are those parcels
17 accessed?
18 MR. KELLY: Well, as now, based on the
19 staff report, I mean, those are vacant
20 properties. The -- I don't know if there's
21 contiguous ownership with some of the other
22 parcels.
23 MR. BISHOP: Okay. That's all right. It
24 may not be totally relevant. I'm just --
25 just -- that's all right.
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1 Thank you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
3 Mr. Brown is suggesting a deferral. Is
4 the committee all right with that?
5 MR. REDMAN: Second.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Cribbs, we're
7 going to defer this for two weeks. We have a
8 busy agenda on the 15th, so -- see what you can
9 do between now and then with regards to trying
10 to work something out. If you need additional
11 time, just let my office know and we'll
12 certainly give you an additional two weeks if
13 that's what you need.
14 [!EZ SPEAKER 14]: Yes, sir.
15 MR. REINGOLD: Reopen the public
16 hearing --
17 THE CHAIRMAN: We will reopen the public
18 hearing and continue the public hearing until
19 March 15th.
20 Thank you, Mr. Reingold.
21 All right. Let's turn back to page 3,
22 item 6.
23 Mr. Kelly or Mr. Redman, would you like to
24 report on the progress from the Green Room?
25 MR. REDMAN: Yes. Thank you,
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1 Mr. Chairman.
2 In light of the fact that this is already
3 zoned properly and the real reason here to --
4 over a license to serve liquor, I -- and, you
5 know, the issues that the Costco manager had
6 are things that are going to have to be
7 resolved as best they can with some -- and I
8 think Mr. Kelly just, you know, did a good job
9 of explaining to him that there are going to be
10 some changes, so I suggest that we go ahead and
11 pass this thing out.
12 Thank you.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Redman, if
14 you're comfortable with that, would you like to
15 offer a motion? Actually, we need a motion on
16 the amendment.
17 MR. REDMAN: Motion to pass the amendment.
18 MR. HOLT: Second.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the amendment by
20 Mr. Redman, second by Mr. Holt.
21 The amendment were the -- I'm assuming the
22 conditions, correct?
23 MR. KELLY: Yes.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: And, Ms. Leguay, I think I
25 asked you this, but just for the record, would
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1 you come back up and tell me whether or not you
2 accept the conditions as read into the record
3 earlier?
4 MS. LEGUAY: Yes, we accept the
5 conditions.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
7 MS. LEGUAY: Thank you.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion and a second on the
9 amendment to add the conditions.
10 Any discussion?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, all those in favor,
13 say yes.
14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Yes.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, say no.
16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
17 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
18 adopted the amendment.
19 MR. HOLT: Move the bill as amended.
20 MR. BISHOP: Second.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Motion on the bill as
22 amended by Mr. Holt, second by Mr. Bishop.
23 Discussion?
24 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
25 THE CHAIRMAN: If not, open the ballot,
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1 vote.
2 (Committee ballot opened.)
3 MR. CRESCIMBENI: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. HOLT: (Votes yea.)
5 MR. BISHOP: (Votes yea.)
6 MR. BROWN: (Votes yea.)
7 MR. REDMAN: (Votes yea.)
8 (Committee ballot closed.)
9 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nay.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: By our action, you've
11 approved item 6, 2011-13, as amended.
12 Thank you, Mr. Redman, for taking the time
13 to go back there and try to work that out.
14 All right. Now, turning to page --
15 Mr. Reingold.
16 MR. REINGOLD: If I may, through the Chair
17 to the applicant. I e-mailed Mr. Skinner this
18 morning and copied -- I believe her name is
19 Ms. Ray (phonetic). There were, I think, like,
20 15 agent authorizations and property owner
21 forms that were submitted. Three of them just
22 needed to be slightly revised. I said there
23 was no problem with going forward with the
24 hearing tonight, but just to have that by
25 Tuesday next week. So I just wanted to
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1 reiterate that to you.
2 THE CHAIRMAN: So is that something
3 Ms. Leguay needs to have back to us by Tuesday
4 or what?
5 MR. REINGOLD: I would appreciate if I had
6 it by Tuesday so that that could be resolved
7 before the City Council makes its final vote.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Leguay, are you in tune
9 with what Mr. Reingold is saying?
10 MS. LEGUAY: I'm actually not.
11 Should I contact you separately?
12 MR. REINGOLD: I'll talk with her
13 separately, but I just wanted to make sure --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: We're almost done, so stand
15 by and he'll get with you after the meeting.
16 We're about to wrap up.
17 All right. Page 5, top of page 5,
18 item 12, 2011-74, we're not going to take this
19 bill up tonight. We do have a public hearing
20 scheduled. The public hearing is open.
21 Any speakers' cards?
22 MS. DAVIS: No.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We have no
24 speakers' cards.
25 Anyone care to address the committee?
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1 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no one, the public
3 hearing is continued until March 15th, no
4 further action.
5 Item 13, 2011-78, is deferred. Item 14,
6 2011-110, and 2011-111 are both second and
7 rerefer.
8 And I believe that completes our agenda.
9 Anything else to come before the
10 committee?
11 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We've got a
13 couple of big topics on our agenda for the
14 15th, so I would appreciate it if everybody can
15 make every effort to be here. It could be a
16 lengthy meeting. When the Planning Commission
17 took up 2010-900, I think it was like a
18 five-hour meeting or something. It was pretty
19 lengthy, so -- we will see you here then.
20 Thanks for everyone's attendance. Staff,
21 thank you for making things run smoothly, and
22 our court reporter for clicking away over
23 there.
24 We'll see you in two weeks.
25 Thank you.
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1 This meeting is adjourned.
2 (The above proceedings were adjourned at
3 6:20 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE
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3 STATE OF FLORIDA)
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4 COUNTY OF DUVAL )
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I, Diane M. Tropia, Court Reporter, certify
6 that I was authorized to and did stenographically report
the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a
7 true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
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9 DATED this 6th day of March 2010.
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Diane M. Tropia
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